OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

SW: RotJ - Prolly old news, but more discontinuity in the story line.

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Monday, January 12, 2009 13:41
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1235
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Sunday, January 11, 2009 6:46 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


So, I'm watching SW , as the trilogy is being aired on SPIKE t.v. The damned remake, which I loathe, complete with irritating CG extras. Anyway, early on, after Yoda dies, Luke chats w/ ghostly Obi-wan, and asks him about his father.

Obi- Wan states -

" When I first knew him, your father
was already a great pilot. But I was
amazed how strongly the Force was with him.
"

A great pilot ? He was like 7 yrs old, and, absurdly , had found time to become a pod racer. Now, if I'm a Jedi Knight, and meet some kid, no matter how gifted at driving a seat being pulled by 2 giant turbine motors, I'm still not going to refer to him as a " great pilot". What would have made more sense was if Obi-Wan said something like " When I first met your father, he really was an annoying little brat! "

Oh well, just another thing which struck me as ridiculous when trying to rationalize the prequels w/ the earlier movies.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, January 11, 2009 6:54 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Y'know, it's kinda funny, because I was watching some of the Star Wars trilogy over the weekend, and told my wife that I could've sworn that the third installment (Episode VI) was called "REVENGE of the Jedi" when I first saw it, not "Return of the Jedi". And it's kinda needled at me for years, so I finally did a bit of searching.

Sure enough, there's the poster I remember seeing at the theatre when the movie was still a coming attraction: "Revenge of the Jedi". Big red poster with a huge Darth Vader helmet as the main backdrop. Turns out "Revenge of the Jedi" was the working title, and the early pre-release posters referred to it as such. It was only changed closer to release date.

Woulda fit better with the later flicks that way - that way, each of the trilogies would have a third installment called "Revenge of the..."

Oh, and looks like that poster I saw way back when (and really wanted) goes for about $450 now. :shock:




Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Sunday, January 11, 2009 7:32 PM

SINGATE


Obi-Wan was probably referring to his taking out the trade ship in episode I.

As to the "Revenge" point I also remember the original title. One of my best friends at the time told me the name, he said there was a poster at the local theatre. I high tailed it over there just to see the poster for myself. Lucas stated several years ago that the reason for the change was that Jedi do not seek revenge. I think "Return" ends up as the better title because until the very end of the film there wern't any Jedi left.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Sunday, January 11, 2009 8:16 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Y'know, it's kinda funny, because I was watching some of the Star Wars trilogy over the weekend, and told my wife that I could've sworn that the third installment (Episode VI) was called "REVENGE of the Jedi" when I first saw it, not "Return of the Jedi". And it's kinda needled at me for years, so I finally did a bit of searching.

Sure enough, there's the poster I remember seeing at the theatre when the movie was still a coming attraction: "Revenge of the Jedi". Big red poster with a huge Darth Vader helmet as the main backdrop. Turns out "Revenge of the Jedi" was the working title, and the early pre-release posters referred to it as such. It was only changed closer to release date.

Woulda fit better with the later flicks that way - that way, each of the trilogies would have a third installment called "Revenge of the..."

Oh, and looks like that poster I saw way back when (and really wanted) goes for about $450 now. :shock:




Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."



Yes, it was to be Revenge of the Jedi. As such, when Star Trek wanted to make their sequel Revenge of Khan, they avoided that word to not make them sound like copycats, so it became Wrath. Although IIRC, the "working title" was actually something like "Blue Harvest" and everybody had caps and jackets with that name/logo on it, so that none of the rabid fans would disrupt the production - I think some was in the forests of Oregon.

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Monday, January 12, 2009 12:52 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:


singate wrote:
Sunday, January 11, 2009 19:32
Obi-Wan was probably referring to his taking out the trade ship in episode I.




Is that the scene where 'little Annie' is sitting in the Naboo fighter, starts mashing buttons so as to shoot at some approaching droids, and ends up flying around and taking part in a large scale combat mission? I'm sorry, but that was yet another ridiculous moment for the prequels. It's one thing for a pre-pubesent son of a slave to drive hyped up hovering go carts,but to sit in the cockpit of an advanced fighter.... please. My nephew is in the AF, and flies a fighter, and he was tops of his class coming out of school. ( He was accepted to the AF Academy , but chose to get his education at a state U, and then enter the AF proper ) Point being, it takes years of training and study before a student can get into the most basic of jets, and we're to expect that a 7 yr old can just climb into seat of a craft he's NEVER even seen before, start flipping levers and pushing buttons, and some how the ability to operate such a machine just "comes" to the kid, even while he's in flight ?





It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, January 12, 2009 2:05 AM

FLATTOP


What do Luke & Anakin have in common in their first space battle?

- Zero training in the operation of the crazy-expensive fighter they're strapped into.
- R2D2 being plugged into the ship's systems.

Personally, I think R2D2 should be the one getting the credit. The only reason those two bumpkins managed to come home at all is because their ships were never actually under their control (complete lack of training includes inability to override the "Trainee Pilot, don't necessarily do what you're told" automated systems). R2 would "interperet" the pilot's intention, decide if the pilot was about to kill them both, and modify the ship's trajectory to minimize the probability of destruction while keeping the pilot under the illusion that he had some control.

----------

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Monday, January 12, 2009 2:56 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Yes, it was to be Revenge of the Jedi. As such, when Star Trek wanted to make their sequel Revenge of Khan, they avoided that word to not make them sound like copycats, so it became Wrath. Although IIRC, the "working title" was actually something like "Blue Harvest" and everybody had caps and jackets with that name/logo on it, so that none of the rabid fans would disrupt the production - I think some was in the forests of Oregon.



Quote:

Originally posted by singate:
Lucas stated several years ago that the reason for the change was that Jedi do not seek revenge. I think "Return" ends up as the better title because until the very end of the film there wern't any Jedi left.



Thanks to both of you for clearing a few things up. Singate, your point makes perfect sense - no "revenge" for Jedi, and no Jedi until the end of the film. And JSF, a big "Thank You" for finally clearing up what the heck the whole "Blue Harvest" thing was all about. I'd been wondering why they called the Family Guy Star Wars special "Blue Harvest" - now it makes sense!




Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Monday, January 12, 2009 3:00 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:


singate wrote:
Sunday, January 11, 2009 19:32
Obi-Wan was probably referring to his taking out the trade ship in episode I.




Is that the scene where 'little Annie' is sitting in the Naboo fighter, starts mashing buttons so as to shoot at some approaching droids, and ends up flying around and taking part in a large scale combat mission? I'm sorry, but that was yet another ridiculous moment for the prequels. It's one thing for a pre-pubesent son of a slave to drive hyped up hovering go carts,but to sit in the cockpit of an advanced fighter.... please. My nephew is in the AF, and flies a fighter, and he was tops of his class coming out of school. ( He was accepted to the AF Academy , but chose to get his education at a state U, and then enter the AF proper ) Point being, it takes years of training and study before a student can get into the most basic of jets, and we're to expect that a 7 yr old can just climb into seat of a craft he's NEVER even seen before, start flipping levers and pushing buttons, and some how the ability to operate such a machine just "comes" to the kid, even while he's in flight ?





It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "



Crap like that always bugs me, too. One thing I liked about The Last Starfighter was that the kid was basically trained long before he even knew there was such a thing as a spaceship to fly - and he still had some trouble figuring out how to fly it!




Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Monday, January 12, 2009 5:54 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by FlatTop:
What do Luke & Anakin have in common in their first space battle?

- Zero training in the operation of the crazy-expensive fighter they're strapped into.
- R2D2 being plugged into the ship's systems.

Also, the Force.

You're right, a natural human wouldn't be able to know what buttons to push to make stuff happen, but people as talented in the Force as the Skywalker bloodline have an advantage; they can "intuit" that "this is the button I need to push," "I need to pull harder to the right," and "suddenly I need to hit that foot pedal."

(One of my favourite bits of novel narration comes from the RotJ novelization, during the speeder bike chase. It notes that Imperial scout troopers have years of training and experience with their craft, but "at two hundred screaming miles per hour, Leia was the better pilot. It ran in her family.")

Plus I think it's established somewhere that Anakin is the only human podracer because most humans just don't have the reflexes to do that, adult or not. Anakin's Force talent was the only thing keeping him from getting plastered into a canyon wall somewhere --I'd say Obi-Wan's "great pilot" judgement was justified.

(In the ANH novel, Ben notes to himself that, while training isn't hereditary, many of the qualities that make a good pilot are [things like reflexes, alertness, spatial awareness].)

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, January 12, 2009 8:56 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

A great pilot ? He was like 7 yrs old, and, absurdly , had found time to become a pod racer. Now, if I'm a Jedi Knight, and meet some kid, no matter how gifted at driving a seat being pulled by 2 giant turbine motors, I'm still not going to refer to him as a " great pilot".



Well, that's you. Since they made a point of saying most humans in general coudn't even pilot a podracer, the fact that a kid did it would qualify him to most as a pretty damned good pilot.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, January 12, 2009 8:59 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Y'know, it's kinda funny, because I was watching some of the Star Wars trilogy over the weekend, and told my wife that I could've sworn that the third installment (Episode VI) was called "REVENGE of the Jedi" when I first saw it, not "Return of the Jedi". And it's kinda needled at me for years, so I finally did a bit of searching.

Sure enough, there's the poster I remember seeing at the theatre when the movie was still a coming attraction: "Revenge of the Jedi". Big red poster with a huge Darth Vader helmet as the main backdrop. Turns out "Revenge of the Jedi" was the working title, and the early pre-release posters referred to it as such. It was only changed closer to release date.

Woulda fit better with the later flicks that way - that way, each of the trilogies would have a third installment called "Revenge of the..."

Oh, and looks like that poster I saw way back when (and really wanted) goes for about $450 now. :shock:




Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."



The name was switched to "Return" pretty early, there was just the one teaser poster with "Revenge" on it.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, January 12, 2009 12:16 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:


FlatTop wrote:
Monday, January 12, 2009 02:05
What do Luke & Anakin have in common in their first space battle?

- Zero training in the operation of the crazy-expensive fighter they're strapped into.
- R2D2 being plugged into the ship's systems.




At least Luke had flown SOMETHING before, in and around the canyons of Tatooine. Not only had he flown, but he had shot at womprats too, while flying. And even then, we can't say he didn't get any 'crash' course in basic X-Wing flight training. But we DO know that Aniken had zero training, had likely never flown before ( where'd he have the means ? ) and as for any 'intuition', I say bunk to that. Why bother w/ Jedi training if you can simply "feel" you way though it ? I don't care how much mettawhozits one has in their blood, you're gonna need someone there to at least guide you a tad, or else you'll end up a skid mark on the side of a mountian. There's just no getting around that.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, January 12, 2009 12:25 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


'Rap - Remember, it's Star Wars; it doesn't have to make sense! :)

What struck me most in watching ANH over the weekend was how really awfully bad the acting was, and how horrible the dialog was. Good thing it had great FX for back then, or it would have been one really shitty movie.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Monday, January 12, 2009 1:41 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
'Rap - Remember, it's Star Wars; it doesn't have to make sense! :)

What struck me most in watching ANH over the weekend was how really awfully bad the acting was, and how horrible the dialog was. Good thing it had great FX for back then, or it would have been one really shitty movie.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."



But man, those ' cutting edge' effects , for the day, made that flick into an international craze.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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