OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

'...I'm Batman.'

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 11:48
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 10094
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Monday, November 22, 2010 8:43 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:


I went 'round with Chris on that point before. Calling the performances the same is facile and simplistic at best.

Well, OBVIOUSLY they're not the same, but similar enough to make me not able to take the Joker in TDK as anything other than 'heavily influenced' by The Crow. And, it takes me out of the movie.
Sorry, big fan of The Crow here, so if I wasn't, I prolly would have seen Ledger's/Nolan's take of the Joker as fresh and new...


The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, November 22, 2010 8:48 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by LiLi:
That's it? That is angst and anger, with some darkly dry humor. Telling a joke isn't necessarily jovial. I think you should maybe look up the word jovial.


jo·vi·al (jv-l)
adj.
Marked by hearty conviviality and good cheer: a jovial host.

And, ummm, when was Ledger's Joker full of good cheer? I was taking jovial as "not just angry" in the context of our discussion.
Lee told the joke & killed the guy.
Ledger killed a guy & told a joke.
Same diff to me.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, November 22, 2010 8:57 AM

LILI

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
when was Ledger's Joker full of good cheer?


In the video with the fake Batman, in the interrogation scene, during the chase when he was driving the truck, and while he was hanging upside-down off a building, just to name a few. Did you actually see this movie? Was all the delighted laughter edited out or something? The Joker delights in death and chaos. Much of the inspiration for TDK Joker came from the comic "The Killing Joke" which wonderfully shows off the deep psychosis of the Joker. Life is a joke. Death is a joke. Chaos is fun. Killing is fun. It's pretty dark, so maybe some parallel could be drawn with other characters who are deep into darkness, but really that's pretty insubstantial.


Facts are stubborn things.

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Monday, November 22, 2010 9:00 AM

CHRISISALL


Okay, here's what we got. You guys who love the Nolan Batman flicks love them, period. I get that.
Thing of it is, if you take a somewhat flawed movie that I really love, like, oh, say, 2010, you can hand me a laundry list of things you don't like about it, and I'll probably acknowledge most if not all the points, and end with "but I like it anyway for the overall product, or at least what good points it has that are important to ME."

In the words of a certain character, "Why so serious?"






The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, November 22, 2010 9:05 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by LiLi:
Life is a joke. Death is a joke. Chaos is fun. Killing is fun.

That's a good point. Joker was amused, Draven was not. Big difference in the characters. Still, the superficial similarities (among a bunch of other issues I have with it) are enough to make me avoid watching TDK for a third time.

*Runs off to watch Batman Returns*


The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, November 22, 2010 9:08 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Okay, here's what we got. You guys who love the Nolan Batman flicks love them, period. I get that.
Thing of it is, if you take a somewhat flawed movie that I really love, like, oh, say, 2010, you can hand me a laundry list of things you don't like about it, and I'll probably acknowledge most if not all the points, and end with "but I like it anyway for the overall product, or at least what good points it has that are important to ME."

In the words of a certain character, "Why so serious?"






The laughing Chrisisall




I have no problem acknowledging problems in films I like. I could list several about TDK itself. But when you're wrong you're wrong. It has nothing to do with being unable to see flaws.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, November 22, 2010 9:09 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:


I went 'round with Chris on that point before. Calling the performances the same is facile and simplistic at best.

Well, OBVIOUSLY they're not the same, but similar enough to make me not able to take the Joker in TDK as anything other than 'heavily influenced' by The Crow. And, it takes me out of the movie.
Sorry, big fan of The Crow here, so if I wasn't, I prolly would have seen Ledger's/Nolan's take of the Joker as fresh and new...


The laughing Chrisisall




And yet you see Jack's "Jack at 11" as some great performance?

Whatever.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, November 22, 2010 9:13 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by OPPYH:

TDK BAtman, and girl free fall from the top of a 20 story building crash on top of a car flattening it...get up brush themselves off, and walk away. Fantasy or reality. Pick One.



You see no difference between a guy landing on his feet from a height and breaking his legs (plain shoes, straight leg, pressure all focused on one point, no give to the ground) and a guy wearing an armored suit designed for such situations, with a cape designed to break such falls, landing on a surface with has several feet of give? You see them as the same?

Take a physics class, and/or remove the stick from your hind-quarters....

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, November 22, 2010 9:14 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

And yet you see Jack's "Jack at 11" as some great performance?


I'm officially lost here...
?


The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, November 22, 2010 9:22 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by LiLi:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
when was Ledger's Joker full of good cheer?


In the video with the fake Batman, in the interrogation scene, during the chase when he was driving the truck, and while he was hanging upside-down off a building, just to name a few. Did you actually see this movie? Was all the delighted laughter edited out or something? The Joker delights in death and chaos. Much of the inspiration for TDK Joker came from the comic "The Killing Joke" which wonderfully shows off the deep psychosis of the Joker. Life is a joke. Death is a joke. Chaos is fun. Killing is fun. It's pretty dark, so maybe some parallel could be drawn with other characters who are deep into darkness, but really that's pretty insubstantial.


Facts are stubborn things.



And that's not even touching on all the other bits of the performance.

Lee was great as the Crow, but let's face it - he played a Goth/Emo version of himself. Wry and charming, but with an edge. Playing his martial arts training up, making him come off a bit like a bird of prey. Effective for the role, but not really more than a sadder version of every other role he had played. He was very effective at playing a variation on himself.

Ledger played a character that was incredibly different from his own persona, or any other character he'd ever played. And his line deliveries were all very precise and deliberate, all done with a specific regional accent from the opposite side of the world he was raised in, which played well off the mass of physical ticks and quirks he played the character with. He won an Oscar for playing a unique character, totally removed from his own self and distinct from any other character out there (unless you fixate on the make-up, that is).



"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, November 22, 2010 9:25 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

And yet you see Jack's "Jack at 11" as some great performance?


I'm officially lost here...
?


The laughing Chrisisall




You tout Nicholson's performance in Batman '89 as this watershed performance - and while I'll agree it's entertaining, it never struck me as much more than Jack being Jack - just REALLY over-the-top Jack.

He was "the" Joker in my mind for all of about 3 years, until Mark Hammill blew him away with just voicework. Because he created a performance, instead of just hamming it up.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, November 22, 2010 9:36 AM

STORYMARK


Oh, and for what it's worth, Keaton is my favorite live-action Batman. He played that character best. I didn't like his Wayne, and I don't think the movies have aged well at all (I tend to enjoy Returns more these days, as find '89 to be rather ponderous and too stagey), but he's still the best Bat.

I think the Nolan films are a big step up over the Burton ones in most respects, and prefer both Begins and TDK to any of the older films; but I still adore the production design and theme from that first flick.

And no, I don't care for Bale's Batman voice. He does a great job otherwise - but the voice is way over the top.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, November 22, 2010 10:04 AM

LILI

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Quote:

Originally posted by LiLi:
I've certainly never heard of something like memory cloth,



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_material
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_memory_polymer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_rubber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_elastomers

http://news.discovery.com/tech/t-shirt-body-armor-tank.html


Well damn, that's pretty cool.


Facts are stubborn things.

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Monday, November 22, 2010 10:36 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

You tout Nicholson's performance in Batman '89 as this watershed performance - and while I'll agree it's entertaining, it never struck me as much more than Jack being Jack - just REALLY over-the-top Jack.

If I touted it as such, I'll retract it here. Having JUST seen it with Sonisall, I'd have to say you're more or less correct. It was Jack being crazy. But it worked well enough in the movie.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, November 22, 2010 10:55 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

I think the Nolan films are a big step up over the Burton ones in most respects

I don't disagree with this particular point, sir.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, November 22, 2010 12:02 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
In Metropolis, Clark Kent is the real person, while "Superman" is just a costume he wears.


I kind of enjoyed the split personality Reeve brought to the Superman movies; in those cases, Kent was the role he played to protect Kal-El/Superman, the real person. Reeve brought it off well, but when they tried to continue it a bit with Routh in the latest flick, I didn't like it at all. They should have gone the 'Lois & Clark' route on that movie- it may have saved it.

The biggest single flaw in Batman & Robin was that they wanted BOTH Batman & Wayne to be the real guys. That part failed miserably. If they wanted Wayne to be 'real', then Batman should have been waaay out there. You can't have your bat-cake, and eat it too. That makes for guano.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, November 22, 2010 1:04 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:

The biggest single flaw in Batman & Robin was that they wanted BOTH Batman & Wayne to be the real guys. That part failed miserably. If they wanted Wayne to be 'real', then Batman should have been waaay out there. You can't have your bat-cake, and eat it too. That makes for guano.





Well, not to defent that piece of go-se, but that was at least concpetually the correct way to go with that movie, as the whole thematic thrust and literal climax (that came out dirtier than I had planned) of Batman Forever was about him reconciling and accepting both sides of his life. It would have been a cheat if they had ignored that going into part 4.

Now, granted, they botched it about as much as they possibly could. But that one element, was conceptually sound, I feel.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, November 22, 2010 1:26 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:


Now, granted, they botched it about as much as they possibly could. But that one element, was conceptually sound, I feel.


Can we compare B&R 'botched' lists here, Story?

Bat nipples.
Batmobile (Fugly beyond belief- chicks do not FIT IN, or love the car).
Needlessly blinding colours.
Bat skates /Bat hockey.
Bat sky surfing & no death.
I won't touch the freezing Gotham peeps & thawing them out...

That said, i still like the film on occasion for a big laff. Plus, the Bruce/Alfred scenes are really very good, IMO.




The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, November 22, 2010 1:31 PM

STORYMARK


Yep, all things that were horrible.

Though the Bat-Nipples first cropped up in Forever.

And I agree the Bruce/Alfred scenes are effective. Cloony was the best Bruce Wayne in some ways (Wayne ONLY - I consider him the worst Bat. But that's about the only good I can say about it.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, November 22, 2010 1:38 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
I consider him the worst Bat.

Absolutely. Like I said, the movie is mainly only good for laffs.
Ahnult was great! HAHAhahahahaha!!! What overacting!!! If it weren't for him, I'd probably not own the special edition.

Yeah, I'm twisted that way.
Escape From LA cracks me up even harder...


The admittedly strange Chrisisall


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Monday, November 22, 2010 1:58 PM

STORYMARK


It is the one and only Batman related DVD I do not, and will not purchase. I've turned down the special edition, 2 disks and all, from the $3 bin.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, November 22, 2010 2:20 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
It is the one and only Batman related DVD I do not, and will not purchase. I've turned down the special edition, 2 disks and all, from the $3 bin.


$3!!! It was $4 where I am!!!!!!!

I'm the first to admit that what makes me LOL usually makes most others cringe. Wifeisall would more gladly shoot the TV than watch some of my wacky choices. Especially B&R.

[serious now]
Objectively (or trying to be, at any rate),
Batman Begins is one of the three best superhero films ever made, the other two being Superman: The Movie & Iron Man.
Just to set the record straight.
[/serious]

Now, on to how much I like Robocop 3...


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 6:19 AM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:


You see no difference between a guy landing on his feet from a height and breaking his legs (plain shoes, straight leg, pressure all focused on one point, no give to the ground) and a guy wearing an armored suit designed for such situations, with a cape designed to break such falls, landing on a surface with has several feet of give? You see them as the same?

Take a physics class, and/or remove the stick from your hind-quarters....




Yeah if the cape slowed him down a bit its plausible. But it didn't. Body armor wouldn't do anything to cushion you from a 300' fall. You could be wearing Vibranium Adamantium armor, but the fact is your insides would still be jarred so badly you would be dead in an instant.
With this reasoning The Joker from the original Batman(1989) movie should have been alive at the end after his fall. I guess Tim Burton's film has more realism than TDK.

----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 6:25 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by OPPYH:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:


You see no difference between a guy landing on his feet from a height and breaking his legs (plain shoes, straight leg, pressure all focused on one point, no give to the ground) and a guy wearing an armored suit designed for such situations, with a cape designed to break such falls, landing on a surface with has several feet of give? You see them as the same?

Take a physics class, and/or remove the stick from your hind-quarters....




Yeah if the cape slowed him down a bit its plausible. But it didn't. Body armor wouldn't do anything to cushion you from a 300' fall. You could be wearing Vibranium Adamantium armor, but the fact is your insides would still be jarred so badly you would be dead in an instant.



Well, I didn't say it was entirely realistic, just that there's enough implied in the scene and the universe established in the films that suggests its possible.


Quote:

With this reasoning The Joker from the original Batman(1989) movie should have been alive at the end after his fall. I guess Tim Burton's film has more realism than TDK.





Sure, if you ignore the actual reasoning. A (longer) fall, unprotected, onto pavement, is NOT the same circumstances.... as I already detailed, and you ignored...

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 8:34 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by OPPYH:

Body armor wouldn't do anything to cushion you from a 300' fall. You could be wearing Vibranium Adamantium armor, but the fact is your insides would still be jarred so badly you would be dead in an instant.

You just killed the first Iron Man movie for me...





The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 8:39 AM

STORYMARK


Hell, just the maneuvering Iron Man does should liquefy him inside the suit, much less any impact.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 8:41 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

Well, I didn't say it was entirely realistic,

May I respectfully suggest that you not bring physics into the discussion, then?



Oh man, I LOVE these GEEK discussions!
This is so much more fun than RWED!


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 8:44 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Hell, just the maneuvering Iron Man does should liquefy him inside the suit, much less any impact.


Maybe his space division provided inertial dampers for the suits...?
Which still wouldn't explain how he survived the desert crash landing in the initial suit...


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 8:46 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
May I respectfully suggest that you not bring physics into the discussion, then?






When did I bring it in then? I responded to someone else doing so, with story logic. I'm no scientist.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:29 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
I responded to someone else doing so, with story logic. I'm no scientist.


There was a scene in Mission Impossible III where an explosion knocked Tom Cruise back into a car, and they did it mostly with ropes, then CGI took them out, so it looked great, and Tom was suitably frazzled for the next few moments. BUT, think how YOU would react in that situation...
I'd be on the ground for at least a minute, probably more. I wouldn't be able to stand correctly for a few minutes, let alone run.
And this is all assuming I didn't break my neck hitting the car.

A totally realistic movie with humans just in great shape isn't possible anymore, let alone superheroes wearing body armour...




The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:13 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
I responded to someone else doing so, with story logic. I'm no scientist.


There was a scene in Mission Impossible III where an explosion knocked Tom Cruise back into a car, and they did it mostly with ropes, then CGI took them out, so it looked great, and Tom was suitably frazzled for the next few moments. BUT, think how YOU would react in that situation...
I'd be on the ground for at least a minute, probably more. I wouldn't be able to stand correctly for a few minutes, let alone run.
And this is all assuming I didn't break my neck hitting the car.

A totally realistic movie with humans just in great shape isn't possible anymore, let alone superheroes wearing body armour...





I don't know that this is a fair comparison. YOU may not have been able to stand after that - but he wasn't playing a regular Joe... he was playing a highly trained and hardened super-spy.

It's not like he was blasted 3 feet into the metal, it was a shockwave effect - something completely within the realm of believability with a human body. Didn't strike me as implausible. Certainly not on the scale of a man pulling High-G maneuvers and stops FAR beyond what the human body can cope with.

You want something more in-line with the impossible - I'd go with the 'Nuke the fridge' scene.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:53 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:


You want something more in-line with the impossible - I'd go with the 'Nuke the fridge' scene.


That tested even MY patience, and you KNOW I can accept a lot. Indy movies strike as significantly more grounded in 'reality' than Batman or Iron Man movies, so that scene REALLY pissed me off the first time I saw it.
Later I realized it was just that God didn't want him to die yet.
yeah, that's it.....

EDIT TO ADD: Hooooboy, I just re-read this and NEED to 'splain something! Not that Demons from the Lost Arc are more believable than anything in BB or TDK, just that the NON-MYSTICAL stuff seems more so- like the Indy gets dragged/Indy gets hurt kinda thing. Or the he-can't-drop-the-big-dude-with-one-punch thing. Savy?


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:07 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:

EDIT TO ADD: Hooooboy, I just re-read this and NEED to 'splain something! Not that Demons from the Lost Arc are more believable than anything in BB or TDK, just that the NON-MYSTICAL stuff seems more so- like the Indy gets dragged/Indy gets hurt kinda thing. Or the he-can't-drop-the-big-dude-with-one-punch thing. Savy?


The laughing Chrisisall




I totally get you. Yes, Indy has the outlandish and supernatural as part of his world, but they are things unto themselves. The rest of the world as portrayed in those flicks is still a fairly "real" place where punches hurt and bones can be broken.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:21 PM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Later I realized it was just that God didn't want him to die yet.
yeah, that's it.....


Remember in The Last Crusade, when he drank from the Grail? Didn't that bestow immortality?

For all we know he did die when the fridge landed --then immediately revived, Highlander-style.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:31 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Later I realized it was just that God didn't want him to die yet.
yeah, that's it.....


Remember in The Last Crusade, when he drank from the Grail? Didn't that bestow immortality?

For all we know he did die when the fridge landed --then immediately revived, Highlander-style.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.



The power didn't reach past the seal.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:14 PM

CHRISISALL


Dang, and that sounded like the best explanation yet!!!!! GRRRRR...


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:30 PM

CHRISISALL


@ Somnambulist- *just* watched a *good* transfer of Batman Returns and WOW, I just LOVE the re-design of Keaton's Bat-suit!!! I totally forgot how GREAT it looked!!!

And the editing/pace of the flick is much better.
Still, big penguins with dudes in costumes at the end, but whatever. BR is now easily on par with the first film for me!

The first two Burton movies are still my favourites, after all.





The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:25 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

@ Somnambulist- *just* watched a *good* transfer of Batman Returns and WOW, I just LOVE the re-design of Keaton's Bat-suit!!! I totally forgot how GREAT it looked!!!

And the editing/pace of the flick is much better.
Still, big penguins with dudes in costumes at the end, but whatever. BR is now easily on par with the first film for me!

The first two Burton movies are still my favourites, after all.



Hey good to hear Chris. I still think that flick endures but I will conceed you have to be into the twisted logic for it to work for you... Luckily most of the time I am and to some extent that's helped by the ever brilliant DeVito who is so passionate about the part that it almost doesn't matter how absurd things become. He's absolutely convincing. Kudos to Pfieffer too who is quite amazing in her duality.

I like the angle this one took, and it feels more Burton than the previous one. Less Blockbuster.

It's beautifully filmed, stylized to the extent of the old German expressionst movies of the 30's and has a wonderful orchestral score. The opening scene with Birth of A Penguin is extraordary given there's no dialogue to help the narrative. It's all masterfully done with the notes of Mr Elfman making you feel at once sad and horrified of what lurks within the baby basket. Genius!

Did you catch the scene I mentioned where Batman is looking on, as the Circus gang run riot and two goons are terrorising an old lady? Batman enters the frame just watching events unfold! Not looking to help her at all, just waiting to engage with the thugs. Perfect character moment.

Keaton's Batman is less hero than Bale's but more furious avenger!




Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:40 PM

CHRISISALL


The part that really made me jump was when Batman stuck the bomb it the strong dude's pants, then kicked him down the sewer! That was SO cold! He even smiled. Chilling.

Batman was excellent superhero adventure IMO.
Batman Returns was twisted high superhero art.




The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 5:22 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

The part that really made me jump was when Batman stuck the bomb it the strong dude's pants, then kicked him down the sewer! That was SO cold! He even smiled. Chilling.

Batman was excellent superhero adventure IMO.
Batman Returns was twisted high superhero art.



...Now I wanna see them again!


Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 9:03 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

The part that really made me jump was when Batman stuck the bomb it the strong dude's pants, then kicked him down the sewer! That was SO cold! He even smiled. Chilling.




...Now I wanna see them again!

Unlike the 60's one, Keaton's Batman has no trouble getting rid of a bomb!!



The laughing Chrisisall


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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 9:37 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Okay, now I just watched Batman (Keaton), and I watched Batman Begins the other week. Man, I am SO split on which I like better...

Batman has:

A peerless Joker performance (no, this is NOT a debatable point, TDK's Joker just copied Brandon Lee's Crow, but in colour).
A cool Batmobile.
A hot love interest.
Great fight scenes.
A visually interesting & goth Gotham, and fascinating production design in general.
Funny jokes.
An excellent Elfman score.
A twisted mentality.
Drawbacks:
Some cheesy FX, rushed & thin storyline (writer's strike).


Which of his bimbos were you referring to as hot? The one who promised she would finally leave America, but reneged on her end of the bargain?
Quote:


Batman Begins has:
Lush photography.
An excellent Zimmer score.
A cool Batmobile chase.
Insane fight scenes.
A super-serious tone.
Gary Oldman.
Morgan Freeman.
Michael Caine.
Drawbacks:
CGI sometimes makes me sleepy, Bale's Wayne performance can be rather unsympathetic compared to Keaton's (or Clooney's).



You seem to lose sight that Katie was the ultimate Bat-hottie.
Begins might not be perfect, but beats all previous by far.

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 10:21 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

You seem to lose sight that Katie was the ultimate Bat-hottie.

Meh. Cruise's ex in Batman Forever was hotter.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, November 29, 2010 11:07 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
The part that really made me jump was when Batman stuck the bomb it the strong dude's pants, then kicked him down the sewer! That was SO cold! He even smiled. Chilling.

Batman was excellent superhero adventure IMO.
Batman Returns was twisted high superhero art.





As much as I like the movie, that scenes shows a massive, fundamental misunderstanding of the character.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, November 29, 2010 11:34 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
The part that really made me jump was when Batman stuck the bomb it the strong dude's pants, then kicked him down the sewer! That was SO cold! He even smiled. Chilling.




As much as I like the movie, that scenes shows a massive, fundamental misunderstanding of the character.


It's said they based that Batman off the Dark Knight graphic novel.
One that does not play well with others.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, November 29, 2010 11:47 AM

STORYMARK


Which I view as a lame, after-the-fact attempt to brush away bad writing. And nonsensical, as even that version of Batman STILL wouldn't kill, much less with a smile. So, it's a BS excuse, at best.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, November 29, 2010 12:17 PM

CHRISISALL


Hey, know what? I don't care all that much. I wasn't into Batman from the comics, so my latitude for interpretation is rather wide here. I *DO* understand that comic fans will be much more strict (as evidenced by two of my friends going on and on back in 1989 with their "Everyone knows Joe Chill killed the Waynes, NOT JOKER!!!" meme).


The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, November 29, 2010 1:42 PM

STORYMARK


It'd be like... say in Shindig, right before Mal fought Atherton.... he knealt down and asked Ath to pray with him.

Not. Right.

I didn't care about combining Joe Chill and the Joker. For reasons of brevity, it worked.

But to violate the character's core defining characteristic of the last several decades, is just bad writing. And their excuse was lazy and simply factually wrong.

But you bought it, so I guess it worked to a degree....

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, November 29, 2010 1:51 PM

CHRISISALL


I like the Timm Batman a lot, and I hear it's the most accurate. Now that Bat would never kill a bad guy if he could help it.

The Burton/Keaton Batman is, for me, like, the mean one.
or a leeeetle bit nutz



The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, November 29, 2010 2:51 PM

STORYMARK


Yeah, the Timm version is the gold standard.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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