BUFFYVERSE

Season 8, #2 (SPOILERS)

POSTED BY: DEEPGIRL187
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 08:10
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VIEWED: 6101
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Wednesday, April 4, 2007 11:00 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Shinyness. Maybe even more so than the first.

I know there was supposed to be some possible Xander/Buffy love, but actually seeing it (even if it was only a dream sequence) was just...too disturbing for words. I guess I'm just not sold on them being together.

I'm pretty sure that was Spike in her dream. Though as to what that could mean is beyond me.

Was anyone else cheering at the end when Willow showed up? As if Amy could possibly take that on.

And once again, we commence with the month of torment until the next issue.

*************************************************

"If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition."



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Wednesday, April 4, 2007 11:48 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


I swore to myself I wouldn't look at this post, but I caved.

I'm in heaven over the Buffy/Xanderness!!! Been wanting this forever it seems like, but even if it's just a dream, I'm still thrilled Joss hasn't forgotten those of us (SMG and Nick Brendon included) who've been rooting for the pairing. Spike fans got their wish (for a while). It's OUR turn now!!!

"In Joss We Trust."

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Wednesday, April 4, 2007 11:54 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Quote:

Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
I swore to myself I wouldn't look at this post, but I caved.



Bad jwhedonaddict! No biscuit.

*************************************************

"If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition."


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Wednesday, April 4, 2007 11:58 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


Do you realize TFAW aren't even shipping anything until Monday even though they have it in stock?! Plus, I'm on the second cheapest shipping method, so I'm paying extra $ to have it late anyway!

Grr Argh!!

"In Joss We Trust."

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Thursday, April 5, 2007 6:38 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


Just got the second issue. I am 100% dead against Bander. It's icky, like watching a brother and sister kiss. Seriously hoping it's all part of Amy's manipulative dream sequence, and its this sequence all the Bander rumours have stemmed from this sequence. I hope they play the kiss from Xander to wake up Buffy as sweet rather than erotic. Or get Willow to do it

Other points - are we sure it was Spike in the dream? Thinking back to the rumours of a big bad from season 5, smart money could be on Dracula. Great entrance from Willow, though her outfit was kind of at odds with the preview images of her!

The Dragon! "I know you..." Cos you rode in on it six months ago into the alley outside the Hyperion! No? Anyone?

Amy's obviously mojoed up big style. An army of zombies! And no more info on the boyfriend.

I'm still in overload mode incase you haven't guessed. By the way, I've never owned comic books before. How do you guys store them? Can you get a little case or something for them?

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Thursday, April 5, 2007 8:03 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


Wow! Just got 2 emails from TFAW which said my comic has been sent (don't know what the one from the other day meant then) and should arrive in 2 business days. Since tomorrow's a holiday, don't know if that'll be Monday or Tuesday. Would today count as the 1st business day?


Anyway, it also sucks that each $2.99 issue is going to cost me more than $10 to get it shipped here before the month is up.

"In Joss We Trust."

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Thursday, April 5, 2007 8:07 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


Don't know what the big deal is against Buffy/Xander. I love both Angel and Spike (and happily-married Riley), but still don't honestly see a happy future with either of them. Buffy and Xander have the potential to grow old together. Wouldn't it be ickier to imagine 70-year-old Buffy with either vamp?

"In Joss We Trust."

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Thursday, April 5, 2007 8:19 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:
Just got the second issue. I am 100% dead against Bander. It's icky, like watching a brother and sister kiss. Seriously hoping it's all part of Amy's manipulative dream sequence, and its this sequence all the Bander rumours have stemmed from this sequence. I hope they play the kiss from Xander to wake up Buffy as sweet rather than erotic. Or get Willow to do it



Considering "Great Muppety Odin, I miss the sex" I think it's safe to say that there has been no overt relationship betwixt Xander and Buffy. One might develope though. As for the kiss I think passionate is the key there. I doubt a sweet kiss would be enough.

Quote:

Other points - are we sure it was Spike in the dream?


I'm sure of nothing. Could be Drac as you suggest or I've entertained the notion of the Immortal showing up to see who it is he's supposedly having an affair with. Or it could be Spike or Angel (less likely Angel though. He doesn't go in for the long coats.)

Quote:

The Dragon! "I know you..." Cos you rode in on it six months ago into the alley outside the Hyperion! No? Anyone?


I think the dragon is Amy's projection into the dream. My hyperion fantasy involves Kate showing up with the LAPD from one end of the alley and Anne with the kids from the shelter at the other end. I guess the slayer contingent could arive on the rooftops though.

Quote:

I'm still in overload mode incase you haven't guessed. By the way, I've never owned comic books before. How do you guys store them? Can you get a little case or something for them?



You can get plastic bags to put them in and collector types slip some acid free cardstock in with the comic so it can stand up on a shelf without bending. This procedure is called bagging and boarding and my comic shop is doing it for me for free. Don't let anybody know but most of my comics I just lay flat on the shelf. I'm a baaad boy.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Thursday, April 5, 2007 6:38 PM

DANIELFYRE


When I initially saw the dream figure I thought Angel, but taking a second look he doesn't seem built enough to be angel and definately has Spike Characteristics. I think whoever that ends up being will in fact be the one who wakes her with his kiss. Yes, the Xander/Buffy relationship seems credibile but I highly doubt it will be Xander who kisses her to wake her from her slumber. I say this because A. he would have done it really early on without thinking about it. And B. it hints at Buffy's affection for Xander and maybe its just me but I don't see any reciprocity there, not yet anyway. And I know a lot of people may think I'm pretty sick for suggesting what I'm about to suggest but...I donno why I'm feeling Xander+Dawn...Also I feel like a terrible fan for having to ask this but it seems like Amy is a name I should recognize from the series but I don't in any way shape or form, can someone help me out on that one? And lastly, yes I did cheer for Willow at the end...literally I jumped out of my seat with a very emphatic "YES!" aloud.

-Daniel Fyre

"real men juggle geese"

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Thursday, April 5, 2007 6:46 PM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by DanielFyre:
Also I feel like a terrible fan for having to ask this but it seems like Amy is a name I should recognize from the series but I don't in any way shape or form, can someone help me out on that one?



Amy was the daughter of the cheerleader witch in the season 1 episode 'Witch'. In 'Gingerbread' she turned herself into a rat to escape being burned at the stake. Therafter she was kept as a pet by Willow until season 6 when Willow finally managed to turn her back into a human. Amy introduced Willow to the evil magic dealer Rack and gave her a big boost of magical energy when she was trying to quit cold turkey. In season 7 Amy cast the spell that turned Willow into Warren.

I think that's all of her appearances. All of the important ones anyway.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Thursday, April 5, 2007 11:03 PM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


Don't forget her hilarious background cameo in 'Something Blue'! But no character development there.

I dislike the idea of Bander cos I feel platonic relationships between youngish men and women were few and far between on TV, and that the writers managed to arc Buffy and Xander into a very credible one.

As for Dawn and Xander (Dander?!), why not? There could be potential for some humourous overprotective big sis scenes. And Xander did say "Daddy like..." in 'Him'!

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Friday, April 6, 2007 5:31 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:
Don't forget her hilarious background cameo in 'Something Blue'! But no character development there.



Knew I missed something.

Quote:

As for Dawn and Xander (Dander?!),


Xawn? take your pick.

Quote:

why not?


Should I start with the almost a brother thing or the fact that Dawn is the 50 foot woman. Okay that second thing should eventually get fixed but still. Also Xander is being crushed on by that disconcertingly green skinned slayer (Who's name escapes me - I'm not even sure if we've been told her name, it's not in #2 but I can't check #1 as my sister has it at the moment.) Xander being stuck in another love triangle situation seems a bit season 3ish to me. Not saying it couldn't happen but I ain't pushing for it.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Friday, April 6, 2007 5:48 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


Xander and Dawn would seem incestuous to me, even if I wasn't rooting for Buffy/Xander. Yes, the thought did occur to me at one time (at the end of 'Potential') that they might go there.

I'd love it if they would do a Faith/Spike union during Faith's arc. I know what I said about 70-year-old Buffy and the vamps, but growing old with someone isn't Faith's style anyway, and Faith & Spike have much more in common to boot.

"In Joss We Trust."

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Friday, April 6, 2007 3:36 PM

JWHEDONADDICT


Got mine today, after all!

I don't know who the guy is in Buffy's dream. Dresses more like Spike, sounds more like Dracula...so I'm stumped. Will have to read it a couple more times before I guess.

Loved the kiss, even if it was short-lived and a dream...and his head came off.

The scene with Dawn, when she splashed him for suggesting that maybe she did it to herself was cute and so them!

Loved seeing Giles and Andrew again, although would've liked it even more if it actually looked like Tom Lenk...'cuz it doesn't. It was only after I read (and reread) his lines that I figured it out.

Of course I was over the moon to see Willow, and especially that she was able to have a full-circle moment using Giles's "I'd like to test that theory" line on Amy. Can not wait to see her go all magical-goddess on her ass.


"In Joss We Trust."

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Saturday, April 7, 2007 10:34 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


I'm feeling pretty dumb...the outfit on the faceless guy in Buffy's dream is the same one Xander is wearing on the cover!!!

Edit: And wasn't Spike's coat destroyed in "The Girl in Question"?

Yes, I'm squealing like a 14-year-old. No, I don't care.

"In Joss We Trust."

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Saturday, April 7, 2007 11:39 AM

GROOSALUGG


Quote:

Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
Edit: And wasn't Spike's coat destroyed in "The Girl in Question"?


Yes, but then the woman in charge of the Rome branch of W&H gave him a new one, and sent a bunch more to LA for him. Plus, it's a dream, so Buffy can dress him any way she wants. (For the record, I don't think it's him, because 'whoever' is wearing a pullover shirt, and Spike tends to favor unbuttoned button-downs over black tees.)

Good catch on the Xander-cover-outfit-matchiness. My guess, tho, is Angel. If you read the answers in the lettercol at the end, it sure sounds like Angel, Spike, or both will be appearing in the next issue. In an earlier post, DaveShayne pointed out that Angel doesn't go for the long coats, but that's not completely true. No, he didn't during the last few seasons in LA, but he wore long coats almost exclusively during his time in Sunnydale, and that's probably how Buffy would most fondly remember him, and imagine him in one of her dreams...

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Saturday, April 7, 2007 1:15 PM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by Groosalugg:
DaveShayne pointed out that Angel doesn't go for the long coats, but that's not completely true. No, he didn't during the last few seasons in LA, but he wore long coats almost exclusively during his time in Sunnydale, and that's probably how Buffy would most fondly remember him, and imagine him in one of her dreams...



Hm. Was I maybe not paying that much attention? Could be. I just have a fairly firm image of Angel in the more regular length mostly.

Anyway I got #1 back and the disconcertingly green woman who has the hots for Xander is named Renee.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Sunday, April 8, 2007 1:13 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


Angel or Spike appearing in the next issue?! Must stop ignoring the letters page! Will that mean definite conformation that they survived 'Not Fade Away'? Because I'm sure we are ahead of that in the timeline.
Although, do we have any sense of time scale for Angel season 5? I know 'Just Rewards' takes place a given number of days (17?) after 'Chosen', but is there any indication of the time between 'Just Rewards' and 'Not Fade Away'? I mean the Buffy high school years always had a set timeline from start to finish of the school year, and that tends to correlate to the length of any Buffy season. But there we tend to have the landmark of Buffy's birthday to help us out. Or have I missed something completely? After this long, convuluted thought process, what I'm asking is - Is there any reason why 'The Long Way Home' can't be taking place simultaneously with (for example) 'A Hole in the World'? Can anyone help me out....

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Sunday, April 8, 2007 1:53 AM

GLORYBE


Well Joss has stated that this takes place a year and a half after the Sunnydale collapsage, so I would put this six months after the end of "Not Fade Away."

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Sunday, April 8, 2007 2:17 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


Yeah I know thats when it relates to 'Chosen', it says that at the start of the comic too - my question is where the Buffy timeline fits into Angel timeline? How long between 'Just Rewards' and 'Not Fade Away'? Does Andrew make any reference to time passed since the events in 'Chosen' during 'Damage'? That would be a pointer.

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Sunday, April 8, 2007 5:55 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:
Yeah I know thats when it relates to 'Chosen', it says that at the start of the comic too - my question is where the Buffy timeline fits into Angel timeline? How long between 'Just Rewards' and 'Not Fade Away'? Does Andrew make any reference to time passed since the events in 'Chosen' during 'Damage'? That would be a pointer.



I don't think we have any internal timeline cues but the usual assumption is that the episodes took place "in the present" So 'Not Fade Away' would be a year after 'Chosen' more or less.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Sunday, April 8, 2007 6:53 AM

GROOSALUGG


Quote:

Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
Loved seeing Giles and Andrew again, although would've liked it even more if it actually looked like Tom Lenk...'cuz it doesn't. It was only after I read (and reread) his lines that I figured it out.


Shame on you for not knowing who it was the minute the words "Lando Calrissian" left his mouth.

But, as it happens, I agree with you--looks almost nothing like him. Amy doesn't look like Amy, either. Giles does look like Giles... if someone somehow wound the clock back 15 to 20 years on him. It's more than just the fact that he's obviously using Just for Men--his whole face looks way younger.

Much as I don't love the artwork, tho, one of the things that had me was mention in the lettercol that there'd be a new artist for issue #5, before going back to this guy for #6-9. The way I see it, one of two things happens: 1) The new guy's no better, and suddenly there's this one issue in the midst of eight others that doesn't match; or 2) He is better, and we're left with this tease of how good the books could be...

One of the things I was really glad to see in this issue was the fact that the general obviously has something else going on, something all secret and occult and creepy symbol-y. It just didn't make sense, within the context of Joss's shows and what's already been revealed about the US government (knowing about vamps&demons as far back as WWII) that they'd NOT know what a slayer is, which side she's on, and would consider Buffy a terrorist threat. I know Joss is a big left-winger and would probably love to make a statement about the Patriot Act, etc., but there's such a thing as being consistent to the universe you've already created. If the general has some kind of hidden agenda for wanting Buffy & Slayer, Inc., wiped out, then yeah, okay, that works...

Oh, and as far as a timeline for S5 of AtS, "Just Rewards" was 19 days after "Chosen", which aired in May and was probably supposed to be set right around that time, as well, and "Life of the Party" was set on Halloween. So between ep2 and ep5 of S5, roughly 5 months appears to have passed . The rest probably unfolds in real-time, with "Not Fade Away" happening around May.

And lastly, maybe someone more used to deciphering comic books can help me with this, but what happens when the gang bursts in on Amy about to stab Buffy? You see a door on the right side of the panel, and a text that says "WHAM!" (or something like that). Was that just the door slamming open against the wall? Or was it slamming into Amy? 'Cause in the next panel, it doesn't look like she's moved at all...

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Sunday, April 8, 2007 6:55 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


Before I actually started thinking about it, I would have agreed with you. Then I considered Angel Season 4. The events of that season are almost all immediately subsequential - from 'Apocalypse Nowish' to 'Home', I would put the time period as being a month at most. There are few opportunities for large off-screen timegaps. For example, do we believe the Beast rampaged around LA for months or that Angelus was locked in the cage for weeks on end? Or that Jasmine's 'happy reign' lasted for a couple months?

The other reason that I imagine Buffy Season 8 as running parallel to Angel Season 5 is there is great potential for moments in the comics to explain certain things in Angel Season 5. For example, who wouldn't want to hear Giles' end of the phone conservation in 'Shells'? Or to find out if the Slayers were responsible for the cyborgs seen in 'Lineage'? Or to hear Buffy give Andrew the instructions not to trust Angel referred to in 'Damage'?

*Edit* Groo makes a good point about the amount of time passing between 'Just Rewards' and 'Life of the Party'. Angel Season 5 offers a lot of opportunity for such gaps. As a random example, there is no reason why there couldn't be 3 or 4 months between 'You're Welcome' and 'Why we fight?'. This would give Joss et al ample opportunity to fit in the Buffy season 8 and Angel season 5 timelines if they so wished.

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Sunday, April 8, 2007 8:36 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:
Before I actually started thinking about it, I would have agreed with you. Then I considered Angel Season 4. The events of that season are almost all immediately subsequential - from 'Apocalypse Nowish' to 'Home', I would put the time period as being a month at most.



Which is the more or less factor in it all. At the end of the season Angel 4 still meshed with Buffy 7 though. And I don't see any reason to suppose that the events of Angel 5 would have stretched over more than one year. It could have taken less but I don't see more. More than that though I suspect Joss chose the 18 month figure for the start of Season 8 deliberately to put the new story(s) comfortably after the events of 'Not Fade Away'.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Sunday, April 8, 2007 9:03 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


In that case, I suspect the Angel/Spike appearances in Issue 3 are going to be dream appearances. I doubt the issue of what happened in 'Not Fade Away' will be settled as a sidenote in the Buffy comics. Which then points towards Xander as the kisser to awake Buffy. Though I heard a nice idea that it will be Dawn.

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Sunday, April 8, 2007 9:31 AM

GROOSALUGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:
Which then points towards Xander as the kisser to awake Buffy.


Can we assume Xander could kiss her without it leading to the two of them getting all couple-y? If Joss is planning on putting the two of them together, as is being hinted at in this issue, my reaction is a great big . In that case, I'd almost rather he couple Buffy up with Willow. Buffy&Xander's relationship works perfectly the way it is--no need to change it.

Of course, if they could have Angel&Cordy fall in love, then I guess any pairing is fair game...

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Sunday, April 8, 2007 9:39 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:
Though I heard a nice idea that it will be Dawn.



I don't think Dawnie is quite that twisted.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Sunday, April 8, 2007 9:42 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by Groosalugg:
Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:
Which then points towards Xander as the kisser to awake Buffy.


Can we assume Xander could kiss her without it leading to the two of them getting all couple-y?



The only requirement (assuming you trust that Amy is telling the truth about this) is that the kisser be pasionate about Buffy. Reciprocity is not required.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Sunday, April 8, 2007 9:57 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


Quote:

I don't think Dawnie is quite that twisted.


Lol I just re-read the relevant section of the comic and right you are. Thats what you get for taking the info from random posters at face value!

I think we are looking at Xander as the kisser then. "Passionately devoted" doesn't have to mean love I guess. I wonder if we will see Kennedy in the next issue - you'd think she'd appear with Willow. If so... I still hate Kennedy!

But how good is to have something to speculate on in the Buffyverse again apart from endless scenarios about post 'Not Fade Away'?

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Sunday, April 8, 2007 2:18 PM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:
I think we are looking at Xander as the kisser then. "Passionately devoted" doesn't have to mean love I guess.



Assuming that Xander still has the passion thing for Buffy. I think by season 4 that was pretty much out of his system. Maybe not though.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Sunday, April 8, 2007 5:13 PM

GROOSALUGG


Quote:

Originally posted by daveshayne:
Assuming that Xander still has the passion thing for Buffy. I think by season 4 that was pretty much out of his system.


Kind of my thinking on it, too. Take Buffy, Xander, and Willow as a group, and I think--over 7 years--the relationships between the three were pretty well cemented as uber-close friends (for all intents and purposes, brother/sisters) and nothing more. Taking any two out of the three (Buffy/Xander, Buffy/Willow, or Willow/Xander) and putting them in a romantic relationship together at this point would just be... maybe 'weird' is too strong a word, but 'odd' at least. Hard to get used to.

I'm still sticking with my first answer that the guy in the dream is Angel (could those mysterious floaty feet in issue #1 have been his, as well? What the hell could've happened to him after NFA? ), and he'll be the one to awaken her... but probably not until issue #4.

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Monday, April 9, 2007 1:55 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


When does the Faith arc start? I can't remember if it was 3 or 4 issues that we would start the independent Faith arc.

I still can't believe (and maybe I'm obsessing over this) that the answer to what happened in 'Not Fade Away' will be provided in the Buffy comic. I know that Joss never meant to have Angel's story end in that alley, but now (for me anyway, and I suspect for a large proportion of Buffyverse fans) with the shows cancellation, that image of the four heroes standing in the downpour and the line "Let's go to work." has become iconic. I would be disappointed - and shocked! - if Angel was to reappear to kiss Buffy and said "Yeah, got into a bit of trouble in L.A. but that's a long story and this is a comic so we don't have time to go into it. Pucker up Buffy." Ditto Spike.

So I'm going with Angel/Spike as a vision/hallucination (maybe the fabled oil wrestling...) and either Xander or Dracula as the kisser.

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Monday, April 9, 2007 5:54 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:
When does the Faith arc start? I can't remember if it was 3 or 4 issues that we would start the independent Faith arc.



I'm fairly certain I read that issues 6 - 9 are slated for the Faith arc. I think it's in the letters of #2 (can't check at the moment) and wikipedia agrees for what it's worth.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Monday, April 9, 2007 7:51 AM

GROOSALUGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:
When does the Faith arc start? I can't remember if it was 3 or 4 issues that we would start the independent Faith arc.


The current storyline, subtitled "The Long Way Home" takes up issues #1-4. #5 will be a standalone, also written by Joss, and drawn by a different artist. #6-9 will be about Faith, drawn by the current artist (Jeanty) and written by Brian K. Vaughan. There'll be a month break, with no issue released, between #4 and 5 ( )...

Quote:

So I'm going with Angel/Spike as a vision/hallucination (maybe the fabled oil wrestling...) and either Xander or Dracula as the kisser.

Thinking about it a little more last night, I think you might be right (except the Dracula part; still not sure where ppl are getting that). Nothing short of seeing it proved otherwise in the comic itself is gonna sway me from my guess of Angel being the mystery guy in the dream. But further consideration makes it pretty unlikely he'll be the kisser.

When you think about it, this whole plot of Amy's is kinda weak. I mean, there's no way she coulda known Buffy didn't have someone new in her life that could've broken the spell with a kiss right then and there. As revenge goes, it's a pretty lame idea. The only good reason for it seems like as a storytelling device, a way of proving to the readers without a doubt that the kisser is deeply in love with Buffy. From that standpoint, Angel makes almost no sense. Why? 1) We all already know that he's crazy in love with her--we don't need to have it proved yet again; and 2) Even if he makes a guest appearance, he's not going to stick around and be a main character in every issue, and this plotline by Joss seems like nothing more than a novel way of kicking off a new relationship for Buffy.

Xander seems like the obvious choice, almost by process of elimination... but I wonder. The fact that Joss is so strongly hinting at it in this issue makes me wonder if that's all just misdirection. I'd--seriously--almost guess Willow as a surprise darkhorse (no pun intended) candidate, except I have trouble believing he'd take Buffy's character in that direction.

Xander&Buffy... I'm not, like, violently opposed to it or anything (certainly nothing like that crazy chick in the lettercol who basically told Joss "Bring Tara back or else!" ). I think they could've made an interesting couple--we know Xander definitely thought so, once upon a time. But it just seems like the ship has already sailed on that possibility. Early in S4 was really the last best chance to do it. Their relationship since then just feels like it's become too solidly defined as something else to move it back in a romantic direction...

I have to agree with an earlier comment: it's so cool to have new stuff to speculate about again!!

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Monday, April 9, 2007 8:07 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


Groo: I remember now that Boobs Whatserface supplied more coats for him.

And about Andrew, I feel no shame whatsoever that I didn't get the reference right away (it took reading a review for the comic for me to 'get' it). I was little the first time I saw the movies, and when I tried to watch them again a few years ago, I fell asleep. I remember the names of only a few characters...and he wasn't one of them! So, ...right back at ya!

"In Joss We Trust."

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Monday, April 9, 2007 8:52 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


Thanks for clearing up the order of upcoming issues for me Groo.

I like your idea about misdirection - Xander is the obvious candidate, and we all know Joss doesn't like the obvious. I can't really see Willow as the kisser - we have had arcs in the past where a major character turns gay and others with unrequited love between Scoobies, so whether or not Buffy reciprocated we wouldn't be breaking any new ground. Of course, you could be right about this kiss being a plot device to introduce a new relationship for Buffy and in that case, all roads lead to Bander.

PS. Suprised DeepGirl isn't joining in this discussion. I'd be interested to see what she thinks cos her opinions on the Buffyverse quite often mesh with mine.

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Monday, April 9, 2007 9:08 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


Does anyone here think that there's even the tiniest possibility that Xander has always still loved Buffy, but because he believed it was impossible, he pushed it so far back in his mind that he went into total denial that it was still there? I mean we've all had experiences where we liked or loved someone who didn't love us, yet we had to move on. Didn't necessarily mean those feelings ever went completely away, though. Xander finally was able to move on with Anya, but still couldn't bring himself to marry her, even though he did love her. Isn't possible that there were Buffy undertones to that he kept even from himself?

"In Joss We Trust."

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Monday, April 9, 2007 9:38 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


Well I guess you could think of a couple points to support Xander never quite getting over Buffy.

1. "He just hides behind his Buffy, now look he's getting huffy cos he knows that I know" The line from OMWF that suggests Anya knows deep down that Xander still harbours feelings for Buffy. The line obviously doesn't refer to Xander being afraid during fights as he couldn't be accused of that.

2. Xander's vision of his and Anya's future in 'Hell's Bells'. The bit where Xander and Anya fight about him not being able to save Buffy - his inability to recover from her death suggests the loss of something more than a treasured friend, perhaps the loss of something more to him.

If I was honest, for me, the ultimate Buffyverse couple to get together (waaaay down the line) would be Xander and Willow. I know Willow's gay, but I don't feel Willow never defined herself as a lesbian. It was about one girl in the whole world, not that she was now only attracted to women. I think maybe thats why I disliked Kennedy so much - I didn't see Willow as a lesbian who happened to be going out with Tara, I saw her as a girl in love. And I felt Kennedy was a cheap continuation of that. I think Willow would always look at a person without seeing what sex they were. Am I making any sense at all?

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Monday, April 9, 2007 10:58 AM

GROOSALUGG


Quote:

Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
Does anyone here think that there's even the tiniest possibility that Xander has always still loved Buffy, but because he believed it was impossible, he pushed it so far back in his mind that he went into total denial that it was still there?


Like I said in a previous post, after Angel&Cordy, I wouldn't rule out any possibility. If there were ever two characters you couldn't imagine possibly falling in love, it would've been those two, during their Sunnydale days, and then their first two years in LA. So, yeah, I wouldn't rule out Xander still feeling that way... or anything else.

Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:
I know Willow's gay, but I don't feel Willow never defined herself as a lesbian. It was about one girl in the whole world, not that she was now only attracted to women. I think maybe thats why I disliked Kennedy so much - I didn't see Willow as a lesbian who happened to be going out with Tara, I saw her as a girl in love. And I felt Kennedy was a cheap continuation of that. I think Willow would always look at a person without seeing what sex they were. Am I making any sense at all?


You are, and I agree.

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Monday, April 9, 2007 8:27 PM

22CLAWS

Entirely pointy.


I had a very good day. I finally discovered a comic store (I live in Knoxville, Tn). I set out on a quest to find it, and miraculously (you have no idea), I did.
Then, I scanned the isles again and again. Looking desperately over a veritable garden of crap, and the stuff that looks up to crap. Then, just before despair fell upon me, I was pleasantly suprised to find Runaways 25. Yahoo!
Encouraged, I revisited my efforts. Back and forth across the isles (This store too cool for alphebetical order, I guess).
Then, when I was almost ready to give up and go, there it was: Buffy 2, both covers. I bought the last two, and the Runaways. Yahoo!
Very good day. I just wanted to share.
I saw the Willow return coming like a George Foreman right hook, but I still loved it.
I won't speculate about who Buffy's true love savior will be because I totally expect to be surprised.
I will say that I always liked Dawn and Xander as a couple. But, years later.

Giddy, just giddy.
22

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Tuesday, April 10, 2007 4:24 AM

DEEPGIRL187


At your request, SerenityinScotland, here's my two cents:

So many candidates, so little time. So who to choose>

Xander is likely to be the kiss giver (though, and I've said this before, it gives me the wiggins). Although it seems like his romantic feelings for Buffy have cooled, we can't really know that for sure. After season three, there weren't that many episodes that focused on solely his character (with the exception of "The Replacement", most focused on his relationship with Anya). That being said, we as viewers have no real insight into his current feelings for Buffy. So, even though I may not like it, this could be the direction Joss is going in.

Angel and Spike seem very unlikely to me. They have so much business going on in L.A. that, to me, it would be impractical to have them travel all the way to Scotland for this. And while I think Spike still has some strong feelings for Buffy, I'm not completely sure about Angel. Not saying she won't always have a special place in his heart, but I think that he's at a point where he doesn't feel like he has to always be the one to rescue Buffy. In Spike's case, I think he feels his place is in L.A. right now, which is why he didn't leave when he became corporeal in season five.

As for Willow, I just don't see it. I've never gotten the feeling that her and Buffy's relationship extended beyond friendship. I mean, with Xander, you could see there was an attraction there (even if it was only one-sided). But with the girls, it has always seemed platonic to me, not even a glimmer of attraction there.

And Dracula? Come on people, that was a one-shot. Then again though, Joss does have a habit of bringing back seemingly unimportant characters years later (the First Evil, anyone?).

On another note, I know they were discussing this on Whedonesque, but I don't remember it here. Any thoughts on Amy's boyfriend? My guess is Larry. The weapons lab she mentioned wouldn't make much sense, but she did mention liking him in season six.

Wow, it looks like my two cents turned into at least a dollar's worth.

*************************************************

"If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition."


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Tuesday, April 10, 2007 5:27 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


Wow - totally forgot to discuss Amy's boyfriend!
I can't see it being Larry, he died a long time ago and was more of a humourous character than a menace.
More likely candidates in my humble opinion:
1. Caleb - a lot of power, could survive getting cut in half with a bit of help maybe. But no connection to Amy. Probably wishful thinking that we will see Nathan in comic form again.
2. Warren - flayed alive, burnt to a crisp. Need some fairly major mojo to get him back. Possible connection to Amy due to her spell in 'The Killer in Me'.
3. Adam - the military connection makes this a reasonable shout. And he could sure use a weapons lab. Didn't really 'die' as such, just had his power cell removed. Possible magical replacement from Amy, the references to "She kept him alive" could refer to this. Also, the general being repelled at the end of the first issue at the notion of Amy having sex with the boyfriend - wouldn't like to imagine Adam having sex.
4. Racq - definite connection to Amy. Willow killed him, but Amy could have conceivably got to him and saved him. His teaching could explain Amy's increase in mojo. Could almost be his eyes at the end of issue 1.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2007 7:20 AM

GROOSALUGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:
I can't see it being Larry, he died a long time ago and was more of a humourous character than a menace.


'Fraid I have to concur with that, DG. Yeah, Amy obviously had a thing for him, but there was nothing about him that would've made him a threatening figure. And even if Amy had resurrected him the minute she was de-ratted, that's still mid-S6; he probably would've been little more than a dessicated skeleton wrapped in clothing by then.

As for the other options:
1. - Caleb. I can't see it, if for no other reason than I can't imagine him taking orders from a woman.
2. - Warren. Same reason. Also, his connection to Amy was a fluke; Amy's spell let Willow's subconscious choose the form. Chances are Amy didn't even know who he was.
3. - Adam. The line about the 'weapons lab' fits. But he wasn't all that great a Big Bad the first time around, and Joss himself even admitted this in one of the special features.
4. - Rack. This is my pick. Definite connection to Amy; would have use for a weapons lab, if it were magickal weapons (and the govt. seems to have caught up on the whole magick, occult angle since the Initiative days); Joss could reasonably get away with saying that either DarkWillow didn't actually kill him, just stole his power, or that she did kill him, but Amy got to him just moments later and was able to resurrect him.

The line in issue #2, tho: "That thing is really gross," is making me wonder if maybe whoever/whatever will turn out to be something we've never seen before...

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Tuesday, April 10, 2007 7:52 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


Just remembered the big bad is supposed to be from season 5. That could be a rumour though. Of course, it doesn't mean that the boyfriend is the big bad but if both are true who would that leave us with as a possibility.
Warren? He first appeared in Season 5 so he would still be in the running. And thinking about it, the weapons lab fits well with his techno skills. And Groo's point about the Willow-to-Warren spell being random is true, but it would be an easy retcon.
Doc? He was a pretty creepy character, no guarentee getting tossed off that tower would have killed him. But not sure if he has big bad potential.
Ben? Perhaps Giles didn't finish him off, or the Knights of Byzantium got the wrong end of the stick about Glory being vulnerable when in Ben's form. Thing is, if Glory is still around we surely should have seen her before now.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2007 10:29 AM

GLORYBE


This reminded me of the rumours that Glory would return in Season 7. Before we knew how Giles survived the Bringer "axe attack" in England there was some spec that when Giles had killed Ben, Glory's essence had transfered into him (she was a god, she couldn't be that easy to kill could she?). The theory was that at that moment Glory had emerged, and so the Bringer's axe would have bounced off.

I think there was also an interview with Clare Kramer around at the time which suggested that she may have been coming back to the show, however that never happened (obviously!).

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Tuesday, April 10, 2007 11:06 AM

GROOSALUGG


Quote:

Originally posted by GloryBe:
I think there was also an interview with Clare Kramer around at the time which suggested that she may have been coming back to the show, however that never happened (obviously!).


I think that rumor ended up referring to the scene at the end of "Lessons" where all the previous seasons' Big Bads came back as the First.

I suppose you couldn't rule out the possibility of her returning in the comics. They could always claim that when Ben died, her essence was able to escape to some other dimension or something, and it took her this long to find her way back. But then what? She tries to grab Dawn again ('Oh, it turns out there was more than just that one opportunity to use the Key...')? That'd be kind of repetitive...

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Tuesday, April 10, 2007 12:51 PM

DEEPGIRL187


Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:
1. Caleb - a lot of power, could survive getting cut in half with a bit of help maybe. But no connection to Amy. Probably wishful thinking that we will see Nathan in comic form again.



Actually, we will be seeing Nathan in he comics later on this year. A new set of Firefly comics called "Better Days" will be out in December I think.

*************************************************

"If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition."


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Wednesday, April 11, 2007 8:38 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


Serenity in Scotland: Joss once said that he intended for Willow to be bisexual originally, but when he decided to kill off Tara, he thought it might cheapen the Willow/Tara relationship, and make it seem like it was simply a phase she was going through so he changed his mind. For the record, I didn't agree with that. I personally never would've felt that way about Willow/Tara, but I can understand how that would appear to some. I did feel that by Willow being completely gay, it sort of did the opposite and cheapened her relationships with Oz and Xander...that said, I wish they never would've gone that far with Willow/Xander in Season 3. I always thought it should've been exactly 1 kiss, and they would both realize there was no chemistry at all--cuz in my opinion, there wasn't. It was icky!!!

DeepGirl: I personally always thought the First Evil should've been a character revisited. I was only surprised it took so long to go there.

Glorybe: Joss said that he ended up not being able to bring back the majority of the Big Bads due to funds...he was trying to be able to afford the Ubervampapalooza scenes. I always thought the intention was for the former Big Bads to continue being The First, which is also why Buffy was used so much for that.
"In Joss We Trust."

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Thursday, April 12, 2007 9:25 PM

NAFLM


Well, just got my issue and after reading it finally read this thread. Couple of my thoughts:

As to the spell on Buffy, maybe it's subtle misdirection. The last comment Amy made (as someone else mentioned above) is that she needs a kiss from someone "passionately devoted to her". Perhaps Amy bungled the spell, and the emphasis is on "devoted", which might not necessarily mean a relationship-type love. And, symbolism aside, it's not necessarily a sleeping-beauty kiss that's needed, perhaps just a peck on the cheek or the forehead. A parent would be passionately devoted, which means that a kiss from Giles would do it. Although when I really think about it, it seems like a cheap way out of it. (Although I can just see them lining up everybody in the castle to try and break the spell. "Still asleep? Alright then, next!")

As for the possible Buffy/Xander relationship

Someone else mentioned that they thought that Amy seeking revenge on Buffy was a weak plot idea, and that Amy couldn't have known that there wasn't someone there who could break the spell. Well, Amy's been trapped underground for 18 months, keeping someone/thing alive as her "boyfriend"; she may be a little bit bonkers. Also, Xander may be the only man at that location. Giles appears to be somewhere else, I'm not certain about Andrew (although it probably wouldn't make a difference) which would bring the options down to 1. But personally, I'm thinking that attacking Buffy is just a ruse. I think she's really looking for revenge against Willow, and attacking Buffy is just an easy way of drawing Willow out.

As for the possible Xander/Buffy relationship, one thing that might point to it is the setup of the slayer camp. Xander doesn't appear to be in a relationship with anyone despite being surrounded by a lot of women and not much else. Might indicate that he's still holding a torch for Buffy. (And given his past history of dating, does this mean that Renee, the slayer who appears to be interested in him, is a demon?)

But more than likely I'm over-analyzing and it will end up looking like I was reading a completely different comic.

Someone else was wondering about the guest artist for issue #5. In the letters page it mentions that the artist for issue #5 (Paul Lee) has worked on Buffy comics in the past. You might be able to find some samples of his previous work online.

Quote:

Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
Joss said that he ended up not being able to bring back the majority of the Big Bads due to funds...he was trying to be able to afford the Ubervampapalooza scenes. I always thought the intention was for the former Big Bads to continue being The First, which is also why Buffy was used so much for that.



I don't know if it's ever been discussed but one thing has been nagging me about The First appearing as various people. I seem to remember that The First could only appear as those who are dead, but often appeared as Buffy. Did I get it wrong (wouldn't be the first time)? Can The First appear as those who have died? Is Buffy not alive in the "normal" sense?

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Friday, April 13, 2007 1:09 AM

GLORYBE


The First could appear as anyone who had died, so technically it could have appeared as Buffy in season 3 if it wanted. That would have been an easier way to try and make Angel kill himself!

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