God is an Iraqi
POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 29, 2025 20:41
VIEWED: 12486
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Anytime someone uses the word spiritual I cringe :)
I can't recommend anything per se. I think the explanation in jurasic park is probably good enough if you want a non-mathematical one. Otherwise, I suggest boning up on that math. Like when I said I like presidents with a military background, and a lot of folks attacked me, and I said, military background is experience anyone can go out and get before running for president, if they so desire; likewise I say, rather than accept a weakness in mathematics, go attack it again. What was daunting in 9th grade will seem much less so now.
By random, I meant random. I think that everything is basically planless randomness, and only applied rules like natural selection turn the randomness into anything else.
Evolution, I hope you grasped, is essentially a branch of statistical mathematics, and not one of biology, a fact often obscured by some backwards debate by religious extremists against darwins evolution of species.
Conventional black hole theory I'm pretty sure is pretty much just flat out wrong, and I can more or less prove it. What a black hole really is is a dimensionally transendental region of space. I would not, however, recommend flying a spaceship into one to find out. I'm not sure it's a crossable barrier in either direction, and the nature of the internal space may not be one we are use to, it might be, say, a 10 million degree see of plasmic protomatter.
Wormholes make for fun sci-fi. I liked farscape. The reality is again probably less hospitable. The gravitational pull of wormholes is what creates galaxies, at least in theory, so I'd say it's pretty intense. It's possible that for a short period of time a wormhole of farscape size might exist, but not as a permanent fixture. Whether one coudl appear at seeming randomness or on a regular basis, I don't know. The theory suggests that rather extreme circustances are needed to create a wormhole. I wouldn't suspect that outdside of science fiction that wormholes will find an actual space travel application.
Re: Chaos and String theory, a decade ago's fringe theory is todays gospel. We just need to accept it and move on. If something late proves it false, then we'll adjust, but we're at the very least in the general ballpark of the truth here. Both theories have a more solid footing than the big bang.
Lawrence Krauss. No. I'll google him later. You shouldn't worry about offending anyone here. If you're using mysticism to trump science, it's liable to be poorly received. If you use science to trump beliefs, you're probably going to be more offensive, but then people probably need some offending to jar them from rigidly held beliefs that might be wrong.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Signym:
FINALLY!!! I found a kindred spirit!
Don't suppose this will help me on the political issues :)
So you came up with something similar yourself?
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Anytime someone uses the word spiritual I cringe :)
I can't recommend anything per se. I think the explanation in jurasic park is probably good enough if you want a non-mathematical one.
rather than accept a weakness in mathematics, go attack it again.
By random, I meant random. I think that everything is basically planless randomness, and only applied rules like natural selection turn the randomness into anything else.
Evolution, I hope you grasped, is essentially a branch of statistical mathematics, and not one of biology
Conventional black hole theory I'm pretty sure is pretty much just flat out wrong, and I can more or less prove it. What a black hole really is is a dimensionally transendental region of space. I would not, however, recommend flying a spaceship into one to find out. I'm not sure it's a crossable barrier in either direction, and the nature of the internal space may not be one we are use to, it might be, say, a 10 million degree see of plasmic protomatter.
Re: Chaos and String theory
Both theories have a more solid footing than the big bang.
Lawrence Krauss.
Sp***t***ity is a staked word. Will entertain all suggestions for a substitution.
You got staked for suggesting high office holders should have military experience? Missed that. But W has the Secret Harvard Club instead, shouldn't that be enough? Ooops!
"Evolution is essentially a branch of statistical mathematics, and not one of biology," Yeah, statistics made visible on a biological canvas, I get that. I think "random" in statistical definition is a misapplication of unpredictibility ("-equal chances- or probability of occurrence for -each- member of a group" so says my dictionary, emphasis mine), I think there are rules about chance, even when we don't recognize them. You say "only applied rules like natural selection turn the randomness into anything else", I'm saying the application of natural selection reveals the inherent structure in something that -seems- unpredictable. Also saying that plan (the dread G concept) and structure are not the same thing. But this one I'm going to let go of now. Fly away little bird.
9th grade geometry was good. A+ and the teacher told me I had a gift (ha ha ha). I enthusiastically ran to sign up for algebra, which was taught by a podperson, got D's and chalked geometry up to a fluke with a gifted teacher. I can calculate really quickly using sort of bunching techniques I make up. But that's arithmetic, different thing. Ok, I'll look into it. I do have a friend at Uni who might be able to recommend a good teacher, I would like to...I mean math is all mystical to me, and I can see where it would be a fabulous tool if properly understood. Drastic Park, ok, I'll bite next time I see it on the movie schedule. Drat. Math. I need a dimensionally transcendant math teacher now.
Yeah, the scientist-type who thought I was torching him...I was saying that science and religion are the same study. Not trying to trump, mind, still not well received.
Glad to hear that String and Chaos are in the forefront. I've hated Bang theory since the first time I heard of it, always chuckled at the part where they'd get .0000001 millisecond from the event, and it all fell apart.
I want to hear new theories on gravity as well, I think gravity is a misunderstood force (she says, going straight on to a new heresy). Black hole theory is as bad as bang theory. in my bratty opinion. I share your dimensionally transcendant theory of holes. (From my featherhead perspective.) It might only -look like- a 10 million degree sea of plasmic protomatter. It might actually be the midnightbomber what bombsatmidnight on the other side. Anyway, I don't think I'l be planning any vacations near one soon.
Krauss. Physics for SF fans
http://www.phys.cwru.edu/~krauss/krauss.html
And see, I thought you were a entemologist all this time.
Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!
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I would like to spend as little time as possible discussing the antichrist. Oops, I mean the president. And he's my own party's candidate. How sad is that?
Spirituality isn't spun. The problem isn't spin. Just in general. The problem with news is spin. But words don't really change meaning. Sorry, a dispute from another thread getting me down.
It's the concept, spirituality. Some sort of mystical connotation. Great for fiction. Not for science. It brings with it the idea that it's okay to put your preconceived notions to work, and also the concept that it's okay to come up with magical connections not written out by known scientific explainations.
Okay, let me put another one out there.
I call this one "I think, therefore I am not."
I don't exist. Neither do you. It's sad in it's way, but also a happy thought.
Each brain cell has within it a network of microtubules that common science believes to be a cell skeletal strucure. They're just wrong again. There are some fringe people who point out that these structure don't span the cell and can't support the cell, but do have a lot of electrical activity.
This is because they are a network, a circuit, a sort of brain for the cell. Because each cell does exists, and does have a consciouness.
But communication between cells is such that as soon as one cell says something that other cells agree with, it takes over. Pretty soon no one can tell who had the original thought. As it exists in all of us cells, any one of us is just as like to have had the idea. More or less.
If we can't pass it on, the thought stops and we move on to the next. And so it goes. This is why if you remove some brain cells, the others continue to function more or less normally.
This also pushes a somewhat evolutionary process on thoughts. Since all brain cells, or a decent portion, need to agree, random destructive thoughts are overcome in normal brains.
So what about suicidal thoughts? Well, this happens when there is something wrong with the brain, in particular, there's no serotonin. Without serotonin, it is impossible to gain perspective on long term consequences of actions.
So all thoughts are had by random cells, and are randomly collective, and then evolutionarily selected. The random thought "if I turn right here off this cliff, I would die: all I'd have to do is pull this wheel" but that thought is trumped by everyone else in my head saying "so don't do it"
So I get all this, collective non-existance.
Yet some nagging notion that I am aware and surfing through time forwards rather rappidly still bugs me.
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JP. I meant the book. The movie doesn't really approach chaos theory as soundly. Gravity is tricky. it's like best explaination is probably as an extension of string theory. All the energy strands get tangled, and pull on one another.
Black holes, I meant it IS possible protomatter, or it IS possible universe, any black hole, you don't know what it is. A lot of stuff from big bang is decent, possible, and much of it may happen, but probably on a smaller scale. The whole "unverse came from one bang" I am pretty sure is bogus.
So million degree protomatter plasmic soup is one possible type of universe that may exist, and if you walk into it unsuspect then ... OW!
But individually, many may have rules very similar to our universe.
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Okay, let me put another one out there.
I call this one "I think, therefore I am not."
I don't exist. Neither do you. It's sad in it's way, but also a happy thought.
Pretty soon no one can tell who had the original thought. As it exists in all of us cells, any one of us is just as like to have had the idea. More or less.
So random cells, randomly collective,The random
Oh, sure, take it to a whole new level of eerie ass weird discussion. Especially since it's just you and I noodling around in an -apparently- empty thread. I've lit campfires in these things before so I know there are other eyes glowing in the dark around the fire. Want a beer? My cells agree that it's time for mysticism. You started it. I have proof that you had the original idea, so don't go blaming me for that later, you republican you.
No speaking Latin, and let's try to keep the blood pressure under control because we're going straight into that heresy that I unwittingly used to offended an other scientific American. At least I think he was American.
Yup, I avoid all discussion of the antichrist in this happy place, FFF. It goes straight to an epic unpleasantness like that other thread you mention. I keep reading that thread and remain ambivalent about adding my .02 On the other hand I will never again feel as terrible about hijacking a thread.
"But communication between cells is such that as soon as one cell says something that other cells agree with, it takes over. Pretty soon no one can tell who had the original thought. As it exists in all of us cells, any one of us is just as like to have had the idea. More or less."
Have you heard the story of the hundredth monkey? Of course you have. This is one of my favorite things. I think the paragraph above also speaks directly about the hundredth monkey concept.
Original thought? No such thing. We're all just electro-magnetic receptacles, and don't think I'm invoking the G, because we've been over that ground. I'm talking about group consciousness. We might each have one syllable of an original thought, but creation on any real level is by the group imagination, not by individuals. Just my opinion.
I think, therefore, big deal.
Ideas are hard to prove in a scientific way. All ideas, not just ideas about the nature of consciousness. I think it takes someone imagining a thing is possible before it can be brought into reality. Until imagination is allowed, proof can't be found. Oh oh getting cryptic again. All right, I'll provide a concrete example then. Until someone imagined flight, planes couldn't be built. Once the idea took shape, it took many many trials of piles of outrageous designs that didn't really understand the principles involved before a method was discovered to get a plane to stay in the air. Along the way, some of the principles of flight were discovered. Then with slow motion photography (to take one example of information that introduced a new perspective), other possibilities emerged. We continue to find ways to make advancements in the tech of flight. In the area of consciousness, I think there are many possibilities for which we modern humans are only beginning to allow an exploration. We know so little about the workings of the brain in real terms, much less about the mind contained within that collection of cells. If you're right about the separateness of cells, that adds even another dimension to consciousness, where each individual cell is having its own separate experience of the world.
"Some sort of mystical connotation. Great for fiction. Not for science. It brings with it the idea that it's okay to put your preconceived notions to work, and also the concept that it's okay to come up with magical connections not written out by known scientific explainations."
Science also brings with it preconceived notions to try to prove them. That is the heart of science - the hypothesis - isn't it? Of course you then apply the clearest methods you can conceive to prove/disprove the argument, but at the b
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Lim,
Not sure I have this all figured out exactly what you're saying, but here goes.
1st, JP, the book, is okay. It's Chrighton so it's kind of probably limited, but in the way that spielberg is fun without being truly deep, so was, for me, jp, the book.
Now to mysticism. My mind read this in funny order because, well it will become obvious why, so I'm answering it in random order.
Some things are not possible because they are out of the framework of the universe, that is to say the region of space in which we live. Every dimension, whatever you want to call it, has its own rules.
We live within a collection of stars trapped within a very large black hole. That universe has certain rules. One rule is that time travels forwards through a system of events. The event model define us and cannot be escaped. I can't determine if outside of those rules if it can be escaped or not, but inside it, it's certainly not possible.
Another thing is teleportation is only possible under some fairly peculiar circumstances that don't particularly apply to us. It's clearly far more possible than time travel, but it's not something that a human could reach via meditation or spellcasting.
I'm familiar enough with the rules of this universe that there are a good number of things I can say with absolute certainty. Though everything can be disproven, with that disclaimer, it is sometimes better to be certain of certain things than to fog the possibilities by taking as unknown what is known. The are other times when just hte opposite is true.
This hundredth monkey?
http://www.worldtrans.org/pos/monkey.html
Basically I feel there are several levels of magic.
1. First, comes the lack of understanding. Nothing in the world makes sense.
2. Then as things start to come in to focus, there is a logical part of the world, and everything outside of that falls into the realm of the mystical.
3. Next you start making rules about the magic, and new kinds of mysticism and superstition are born.
4. You find random spot evidence which seems to support your mystical model, or change its course, and you follow this.
5. After that, you begin to notice that ultimately the scientific model seems to trump the extant mystical models, and you lose faith completely.
6. Finally you realize that the true nature of the universe is far different from the mainstream scientific understanding.
Stage 6 is the starting point for discussion, but it looks exactly like stage 3. So on every single issue and subtopic even the most knowledgable must closely reexamine their understanding to see if perhaps they aren't at stage three on that point. It happens to me frequently.
That said, moving on.
There are several elements of mental state:
Main among these are Focus, Perspective, Noise, Instinct and Sleep.
Dopamine is the agent of focus. A low level causes disorientation. This leads to memory loss, and various other degenerate and vague states of mind. High levels cause halucination, a state randomly produced by dumb kids who don't know what they're doing.
The important thing here is focus is the opposite of perspective, but they are controlled by different mechanisms.
The mechanism of perspective is serotonin. You are absolutely right that modern society depresses serotonin levels. Many food additives can do this, as does stress, and serotonin precursors are actually quite rare.
A lack of perspective IS depression. They are actually the same thing. Both psychologically and chemically.
In normal health levels, these two mechanisms will fight for dominance. At unhealthy levels, one will win.
Chemical relations here are important.
Serotonin is closely related to Melatonin, the agent of sleep. Taking melatonin can cause a reduction in serotonin production, causing depression. The best supplements to take for this are 5-HTP, the direct serotonin precursor, or Tryptophan, which is banned in the US by an immensely stupid or crooked govt. These supplements compete with SSRIs, which are profitable and highly dang
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About ancient beliefs I have to say, I'm no mysterian. Mysterians like to exaggerate the unknown. I think that modern knowledge falls into two streams:
1) Mainstream knowledge. This is what most of the people know and understand. Their world is notably shallow and built on misconceptions. They eat non-food, and practice non-exercise, and have a mental state of a tv-watching vegetable. They understand little.
2) Experimental Science. These people usually work with mice and understand a great deal. In theory they could easily reconstruct whatever was done in the past if there was a reason to do so.
Ultimately there is, a reason to do so, but it becomes a tricky process of knowing what to recreate. Such a society would know why it was doing what it was doing, which would likely give it a one up on its ancient counterpart, which may have understood, or may have simply been following a pattern of behavior that had value in a system of darwinian evolution. It's really hard to say which. Likely it was a matter of being one or the other on a case by case basis within each society. Eg. The ancient Mayans may have done X, Y and Z which gave them a more aware mental state, and they understood how X worked, and they knew Y was beneficial but didn't know how it worked, and had no idea that they were doing Z and let alone its effect or workings behind that effect.
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That was an interesting set of associations between neurochemicals and basic responses. I would need to think about it more before I could comment on it. Though I think of myself as fairly knowledgeable, your statements are so uniquely constructed I will need to translate them somewhat.
I would like to state a small caveat: there are issues of faulty brain wiring per se that have nothing to do with chemical imbalance, and that cause brain/mood malfunction.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Quote:We observe a phenomenon where the frequency of light seems to get longer with increasing distance. So rather than accept the simple explanation- that there is a distance-related affect on light of some unknown mechanism-people proposed that the universe is accelerating away from us in all directions. Then we get to posit dark energy and dark matter and explain away why there appear to be some VERY OLD galaxies in far distance, presumably "younger" regions of the galaxy. DUH!
Signym: FINALLY!!! I found a kindred spirit!
DT: Don't suppose this will help me on the political issues :) So you came up with something similar yourself?
I have a very unformed notion that basically we have got our dimensions all wrong and that it's messing up our understanding. What is so fundamentally different between x,y, and z that they each require a different dimension? And isn't time just a complex function of distance?
I'll give you a couple of... mmm..."glimmers". Our gaze encompasses a larger and larger swath of the universe the further "out" we look. When we look out at infinity, does our vision wrap around so that we see ourselves? Why is is that some mathematical operations are "orderless" or "commutative" while others aren't? Maybe one dimension has more to do with "sequence-dependent" versus "unordered".
I have no idea where this is going. I haven't had time to pursue it. Like I said, it's just a nagging feeling that our understadnign has been limited by the fact that we are simply looking at things from the wrong angle.
---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.
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Rue,
Granted, there is such a thing as a neulogical flaw. Some of these can be quite major, others may be fairly minor. There are those which have their impact on neurochemical production and others that effect only one particular function, and still others that cause widespread problems. But all of these conditions are decidedly rare. The vast majority of people do not have serious physical problems with their brain. I didn't mean to be address this situation, which admittedly is more complex. Even so, many of these problems can be adjusted via supplements.
I read recently that almost half of American teens are on some sort of pyschotropic medication. A full 60% are taking illicit drugs of some kind. If we assume no statistic relation between the two, which is probably safe, that means 76% of American teens are taking one or more mind altering substances. Almost all of these are balance-altering. Taking of brain booster among teens is rare. Neuropathy among teens is exceedingly rare. So roughly 3/4 of American teenagers are starting out with normal brains, and creating artificial imbalances in neurotransmitter levels as the result of the use of psychoactive drugs.
Consider this. If a teenager takes an SSRI to boost low serotonin levels most likely caused by the typically unhealthy American diet, they create an artificial imbalance which may not at first be noticeable. SSRIs reduce the vesicle reserves of serotonin. While in-play serotonin levels may return to normal, the low reserve levels indicate a possible poor response to stress, and extreme stress could cause serotonin levels to plummet well below what would be probable or even possible in a normal teen. This could lead, and study show does lead, to an elevated suicide risk. In addition, SSRIs can have unexpected effects on the levels of other NTs. I've read reports that Paxil may have an agonist effect on NE in some patients, and even a fairly extreme one.
If someone wants to say 'evil corporation' here, it's probably fair, but please bear in mind that without these companies, medicine would still be in the stone age. But definitely there is a case to be made. If people dealt with the dietary and exercise deficiencies that cause these problems, and addressed them appropriately, the number of people taking drugs could be greatly reduced. Even a fair number of illicit drug users see themselves as 'self-medicators.' An educated public would understand that persistant problems like depression or mental fatigue could be treated with diet, exercise, and dietary supplements, rather than go off to shoot up with heroin.
Just some more food for thought.
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Signym
Quote:
We observe a phenomenon where the frequency of light seems to get longer with increasing distance. So rather than accept the simple explanation- that there is a distance-related affect on light of some unknown mechanism-people proposed that the universe is accelerating away from us in all directions. Then we get to posit dark energy and dark matter and explain away why there appear to be some VERY OLD galaxies in far distance, presumably "younger" regions of the galaxy. DUH!
I see you've been paying attention to the holes in the theory. Yeah, agreed. It does resemble the epicycles of the geocentric model, doesn't it? When the priests had to keep appending the old theory to fit the extant data, rather than accept that it might be wrong.
Quote:
I have a very unformed notion that basically we have got our dimensions all wrong and that it's messing up our understanding. What is so fundamentally different between x,y, and z that they each require a different dimension? And isn't time just a complex function of distance?
Huh? I gather space is 3 dimensional, which I have seen derived mathematically. Random chaos predicts the 3 dimensionality of space. It's the minimum necessary to explain all posible mathematical relations which occur or are possible in energy strands.
We measure space by these interactions, and being as these interactions made up of these energy strands, where they are more frequent, there will be a warping of space, this dimensionally transendental effect.
Since gravity is in effect a tangle of strands, a gravity well such as a black hole would have a rather extreme density of strands, sufficient to lead to a whole new set of dimensional parameters.
Son't know if this related to what you were saying.
Quote:
I'll give you a couple of... mmm..."glimmers". Our gaze encompasses a larger and larger swath of the universe the further "out" we look. When we look out at infinity, does our vision wrap around so that we see ourselves? Why is is that some mathematical operations are "orderless" or "commutative" while others aren't? Maybe one dimension has more to do with "sequence-dependent" versus "unordered".
Again I say "Huh?"
It would be possible that space could be so warped that we would see ourselves, but this isn't the case in the space we live in. It's more warped like a dent. As if we were seeing the small circle of curve somewhere on the edge of a deep bowl, rather than at the bottom of a deep bowl. At least that's how I understand it.
What's all this ordered, non ordered?
Quote:
I have no idea where this is going. I haven't had time to pursue it. Like I said, it's just a nagging feeling that our understadnign has been limited by the fact that we are simply looking at things from the wrong angle.
I guess I don't see ultimate understanding as anywhere approaching our grasp. I have a reasonably decent understanding of the situation. I mean logically you could say the universe is an information network, and we and all we see are the signal. That would be the closest thing to the truth that I could presently understand. If there was a why beyond that, it would be beyong me, presently.
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Every dimension, whatever you want to call it, has its own rules.
One rule is that time travels forwards through a system of events.
Another thing is teleportation is only possible under some fairly peculiar circumstances that don't particularly apply to us. It's clearly far more possible than time travel, but it's not something that a human could reach via meditation or spellcasting.
This hundredth monkey?
Next I want to learn how to do this with meditation.
There is really only one safe way to boost your serotonin levels and that is with a supplement of 5-HTP, or Tryptophan if it's available.
Serotonin precursors simply are too rare in a normal diet, and taking high amounts of TP-rich foods might lead to other problems if the foods contain high levels of other things.
Without the raw material of serotonin, it is impossible for your brain to make it. No zen practice can solve that for you, it simply would be against the laws of chemistry.
The conditions themselves simply don't exist. They are just random conjecture of assessing disassociated symptoms to attempt to make them into a scientific system which is really much more of a mystical stage three type analysis as I said above.
About ancient beliefs I have to say, I'm no mysterian. Mysterians like to exaggerate the unknown. I think that modern knowledge falls into two streams:
1) Mainstream knowledge. This is what most of the people know and understand. Their world is notably shallow and built on misconceptions. They eat non-food, and practice non-exercise, and have a mental state of a tv-watching vegetable. They understand little.
2) Experimental Science. These people usually work with mice and understand a great deal. In theory they could easily reconstruct whatever was done in the past if there was a reason to do so.
Ultimately there is, a reason to do so, but it becomes a tricky process of knowing what to recreate. Such a society would know why it was doing what it was doing, which would likely give it a one up on its ancient counterpart, which may have understood, or may have simply been following a pattern of behavior that had value in a system of darwinian evolution. It's really hard to say which. Likely it was a matter of being one or the other on a case by case basis within each society. Eg. The ancient Mayans may have done X, Y and Z which gave them a more aware mental state, and they understood how X worked, and they knew Y was beneficial but didn't know how it worked, and had no idea that they were doing Z and let alone its effect or workings behind that effect.
Oh for crying out loud, I wrote teleportation when I meant to pull telekinesis out of the hat of unbelievable things. Teleportation more than stretchs the boundaries of the possible, even for me. Techniques I've heard referred to as remote viewing, ok, awareness of people who are far away, yes, teleportation, not likely. Sorry about that, I was experiencing verbal difficulties.
Absolutely, I believe that every dimension has its rules, but I also believe that the dimensions are interleaved, and individual rules of a particular dimension don't necessarily apply to all forms of consciousness.
Along those same lines, I think that the perception that time only flows forward is a matter of perspective; rather than being a rule of the dimension it's a rule for some levels of consciousness. It lets us learn how to quit kicking the crap out of each other by keeping us in the classroom long enough to learn the lesson. I'm not saying I think time travel is possible, but I do think we greatly hamper ourselves by thinking that you can't heal your past, or that it's difficult to create transformative effect on your future possibilities.
Yup, that hundredth monkey.
Many traps in your 1-6, aren't there? Not just thinking you're at 6 when it's actually 3, but opportunities for getting stuck anywhere along the line. Plenty of charlatans and charismatics on both sides of the aisle to confuse things, as well as ego, as
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Lim,
Quote:
Oh for crying out loud, I wrote teleportation when I meant to pull telekinesis out of the hat of unbelievable things. Teleportation more than stretchs the boundaries of the possible, even for me. Techniques I've heard referred to as remote viewing, ok, awareness of people who are far away, yes, teleportation, not likely. Sorry about that, I was experiencing verbal difficulties.
Understood. I also have problems with telekenisis, but if you want to go to magic, and what's possible through magic it can get complicated. Telepathy is more possible, though. There are certainly some unexplained things which can be accomplished.
Quote:
Absolutely, I believe that every dimension has its rules, but I also believe that the dimensions are interleaved, and individual rules of a particular dimension don't necessarily apply to all forms of consciousness.
I don't believe. Belief is a tricky thing. Sorry. Don't mean to hit you with another loaded word game. What do you mean interleaved? I'm not quite sure what your talking about a lot of the time, I mean there is some decent amount of space in all this abstraction, and so I have a hard time pinning it down. I don't want to say be more wordy, because all these posts are getting quite long, but try to explain not just re: this, but re:everything, because a lot of it I'm just guessing at your meaning.
Consciousness is a bizarre concept. I'm not sure what it means. I'm not sure I exist.
Quote:
Along those same lines, I think that the perception that time only flows forward is a matter of perspective; rather than being a rule of the dimension it's a rule for some levels of consciousness. It lets us learn how to quit kicking the crap out of each other by keeping us in the classroom long enough to learn the lesson. I'm not saying I think time travel is possible, but I do think we greatly hamper ourselves by thinking that you can't heal your past, or that it's difficult to create transformative effect on your future possibilities.
As I said, I don't believe. I try to understand, and if I can't understand, then I suspect.
I suspect that time moves forwards as a rule of the dimension we are in. I know to some extent how time moves forwards. To a great extent actually. It's the result of event systems built on the concept of uncertainty, the same as created the other 3 dimensions. But time is categorically different from other dimensions.
I suspect it is possible to see the future, to alter it through actions in the present, but that it is not possible to change the past.
Quote:
Many traps in your 1-6
Sure.
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I do think working on maintaining reasonable serotonin levels is the easiest way to begin to rebalance an out of whack system.
You're pretty sharp. Yes, particularly from an outside perspective, since the vague kind of losing one's mind is less of a problem for the rest of us, but also, sure I will conceded certainly that decent serotonin levels are more important than anything else.
The solution to this I'm sure said already is 5-HTP, possibly with some uptake booster like folic acid.
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Of course it would be ridiculous to try to do that while in a state of sleep deprivation, while never exercising, eating mostly junk food, on and on: in short, balance requires reasonable behavior.
Actually, it would help. Insomnia is related to TP deficiency since melatonin is also a tryptophan derivative. tryp. supplements would be a better long term sleep solution than melatonin, though less effective in the short term. Tryp. is also essential to maintain energy levels.
re:hormones
I tend to disagree with the conventional wisdom that hormone supplements in food are bad. I just haven't seen a lot of evidence that this is the case. I would still be very cautious with the idea, but even with our hormone bombardment, I think we're probably still more likely to have hormone deficiencies than overdoses. I more worry about preservatives, random non-biological chemical junk. I am a
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*edit to connect quotes with responses...the small size of the 'reply' window creates some problems for me in visualizing how the whole post will read. This was -extremely- confusing, visually. I hope I have achieved at least a little more clarity.*
DT "I don't believe. Belief is a tricky thing. Sorry. Don't mean to hit you with another loaded word game. What do you mean interleaved? I'm not quite sure what your talking about a lot of the time, I mean there is some decent amount of space in all this abstraction, and so I have a hard time pinning it down. I don't want to say be more wordy, because all these posts are getting quite long, but try to explain not just re: this, but re:everything, because a lot of it I'm just guessing at your meaning."
Ok, if we try even a little bit harder, we could maybe get into the Guiness for longest post ever. And here you are suggesting that I get even more outrageously wordy that I already am.....Ok, then! No possibility of proof reading or spell check happening in this post. I'll try to be as clear as I can, and I'll try to censor my bizarre sense of humor as much as I can manage, and keep the non-sequiturs seated in the lounge car and amusing each other.
I also guess at your meaning a lot, especially when you cross into physics, but one thing I think we share is a view of the cosmos as an interconnected thing where there are similarities everywhere you look which resonate with and create reflections of each other.
We are having some problems with the exchange of terms, and I can't fault you at all for your patience in this. My mind doesn't work in the logical way scientific minds work.
DT "As I said, I don't believe. I try to understand, and if I can't understand, then I suspect."
Believe: much of my evidence is ancedotal and experiential, and connecting dots maybe no one else sees (gulp, I wrote that?), and therefore unreliable by scientific standards. So I use words like 'believe' to indicate that what I am stating is currently part of how I interpret the structure of life, the universe and everything, but not by anyone's standards logical. I am always searching for more information to refine my understanding, but I get caught in your #3 often enough. 'Believe' does not indicate a permanence, or rigidity of a concept in my lexicon. 'Suspect': I don't like some of the other connotations. 'Surmise' I could maybe use as an alternative. Allright I'll try surmise and see how it feels going into my keyboard. You aren't the only science guy who hears 'believe' as a music similar to fingernails on a chalkboard.
Dimensions being 'Interleaved': interpenetrating, interconnected, not at all separated, except by the perception of those involved. Equally accessible if one has the personal ability (the focus, magic, development, or in some cases -lack of development-, of consciousness) necessary to cross the boundaries. (One, indicating not just 'people', but consciousnesses, or hive mind, or the resonant field of 'rock' or 'star nursery'.) Ok, you have a jar, put some large pebbles into it, shake it and put some medium sized pebbles into it, then tiny pebbles, then fill it with water. You have several different kinds (sizes in this case) of thing in the same container. That's kind of what I mean, though the liquid water is only in a slightly different state from the solid pebbles: many, vastly different kinds of things existing in the same space.
If we had coffee and time enough, I think we'd get through some of this garbage and discomfort with terminology, and difference in focus, understanding and perception on fastforward, but the constraints of the online medium make for some interesting brick walls. Also, I think there are plenty of things we'd find that we just agree to disagree. You have physics, I have physics for poets with no math. That makes for some pretty big differences, but we have gotten farther down this road than I sometimes do without someone imploding or walking away. I do appreciate that. I am learning much from this exchange.
DT "Consciousne
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Believe
Okay, gotchya. We mean the same thing here. You're right I was reading it in maybe a christian way, belief permanent, but I think we both meant more of an 'as far as I know' sort of thing, not a 'son of God save my soul' sort of thing.
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Dimensions
Ah. We were talking slightly differently here as well. I was being litteral, using 'dimension' to refer to regions of transcendental space, universes, as it were. I think you're trying to say different manners of interpretation of the same region of space. I usually say 'realms' for this, if I get you correctly, meaning a magical or mystical realm exists in the same space as our own physical one. This makes perfect sense from a scientific perspective to anyone openminded enough, because after all matter is simply a manefestation of the underlying energy.
Have you seen Serial Experiment Lain? There a reasonably good explanation of this concept scientifically in there mixed among the abstract existentialist anime of it all.
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If we had coffee and time enough
Just send me an email gmail at:
dreamtrove(put the 'at' here)gmail.com
There's a lot of interesting stuff to discuss I'd like to hear some more about you're universe theory, and the way the world maybe works (always possible I'm wrong, and usually am) and I'm always a little afraid that one of the partisan political squad is going to butt in with some incredible simplistic textbook rant of how the world according to newton works.
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Bwah haa haa
My astronomy professor took the same stance (as you have.) I guess my understanding is that time is created out of uncertainty much the way space is, and that if you have a property which can have value A or value B, then to distinguish between the two, either which might randomly be true, a dimension is created to fill the possibilities. This is as far as I know how space is created from the fluctuations of energy. But there are an inifinite number of energy strands fluctuating, and not an infinite number of spacial dimensions. The three dimensions exist to explain all of the possible interactions of energy freqencies, becuase 3 is the minimum number of dimensions needed to explain this, which implies some sort of minimizing force which would cause a fourth or fifth dimension from collapsing back in line with the three.
By comparison but also by contrast, time is made from the same factor of uncertainty, but builds differently. Time as we know it is built from little monomer events which interact with one another in a way according to chaos theory, and create larger events out of the smaller ones. This move from less complex vibrations to more complex interactions parallels the 'complexity' dimension of space, rather that the three dimensions of physical space. As complexity moves only forwards, I surmise that time also, in this universal state, moves only forwards. Hope that makes sense.
Though I grant the other possibility is niftier.
I have lots of trouble grasping time though. I don't understand why I am surfing this wave of time forwards. I agree it should be possible to see the past, assuming some signature is left behind.
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The 'actual type' of losing one's mind
Sorry I tend to get caught up in anti-psychiatry rants. I basically don't think they, collectively, really have any understanding of what they are looking at. The correllate symptoms, but all they really have is groups of symptoms which accumalte together with a degree of frequency, and a group of vague overlapping names they try to push them into. I guess if I were to say as what I think is wrong with their view, it's that the problems of the mind are only interdependent, but not pathological. One person may have 9 separate things going wrong, and so they give those 9 things a name. Someone with one or two things wrong they don't even notice, and so it gets no name, unless that person is in the wrong place at the wrong time. And now I'm ranting again.
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Sleep
Yeah, exercise is good, in
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"If people dealt with the dietary and exercise deficiencies that cause these problems, and addressed them appropriately, the number of people taking drugs could be greatly reduced."
It would be great, if we had the proper formula, but I don't think we do at this time. And I guess I know too many children with severe intractable problems. That seems to be on the increase, it leads me to believe there are pervasive environmental causes outside of personal control and responsibility.
I haven't had a lot of time to think about your previous post. For example there are two levels of 'distress' response from visual stimuli - one which comes through the normal perceptual route, the other which operates below the level of cognition and extracts salient features connecting directly to the limbic system. What is the major neurotransmitter of this system? Honestly, I don't know. And I haven't had the time to check it out, or generally if your neurotransmitter/function list correlates with what I know. That's what I meant by translation - making a map between what I know and what you say. Perhaps if you provided some detail it would help.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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ISIS horror as 43 Christians slaughtered in savage attack on church - nine children dead
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/2088090/isis-catholic-church-koma
nda-dr-congo
West London man found guilty of travelling to Syria to join Al Qaeda-linked group
https://nz.news.yahoo.com/west-london-man-found-guilty-145945020.html
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