McCain and Palin are lying whores!
POSTED BY: ImperaTodd
UPDATED: Monday, November 10, 2008 00:00
VIEWED: 9935
PAGE 2 of 2
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
You parse your "facts" pretty carefully, don't you? If the whole canvas is blue but with one red spot, you'll point to the red spot.
If Bush used the term "mortal threat", "unique and growing threat" and said that Iraq was intending to hit us with WMD, and Scott McClellan used the term "imminent threat" you'll says See? Bush didn't use the term "imminent thread so he didn't lie!
No, he didn't lie because the information he gave was factually accurate, AS BEST HE KNEW, dumbass. It has nothing to do w/ the lying Left who misquote Bush, but rather that EVERYONE from before Bush was even in office was saying Saddam was a threat, had WMD and, at the very least, wasn't living up to the U.N. resolutions . Based on what he knew, he and the US Congress agreed that the use of force was the ONLY way to solve the issue. Bush didn't lie.
Quote:It's not ME saying it, the Resolutions THEMSELVES refer to earlier passed resolutions - SPECIFICALLY. Again, you're simply wrong.
If UN Resolution says Recalling all of our previous resolutions, we now decide to give Iraq a final chance to comply YOU'LL says See? The UN included its previous Resolutions be reference and therefore that means can could invade, totally ignoring the entire meaning of the Resolution!
Quote:Huh? Now you're simply rambling incoherently
If the market goes up ONE DAY but everything else is tanking, you'll cling to the one-day phenomenon.
Quote:.... now THAT'S funny. You're trying to consolodate Obama's connection w/ Ayers to nothing more than an occasional phone conversation ???
You have not shown in this thread anything other than the fact that Obama once worked on a board with a guy and had occasional phone conversations. Heck, you can't even figure out what you're so lathered about!!
Rapo, for your own sanity's sake, please give up that heavy-duty filter between you and the rest of the world.
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
At the heart of this “Top Ten” list is the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which Ayers founded and Obama and Ayers co-chaired for five years, raising and spending at least $110 million in an effort to bolster a “radical” (Ayers’ word) reform program in the Chicago Public Schools from 1994 to 2001.
1) Out of the Woods:
The Woods Fund financed the hiring of Obama in 1985 by the Developing Communities Project.
According to The Nation: “The Woods Fund, in many ways, is responsible for helping start Obama as an organizer and shaping his political identity. In 1985 the foundation gave a $25,000 grant to the Developing Communities Project (aka the “DCP”), which hired Obama, at 24, as an organizer on Chicago’s economically depressed South Side.”
The Woods Fund was founded by the Woods family which owned the Illinois-based Sahara Coal Company, a major supplier of coal from its mines to major Illinois power companies. Commonwealth Edison, the giant Chicago-based electric power company was headed by Thomas Ayers, father of Bill Ayers.
Obama served on the board of the Woods Fund from 1993 until 2002. Bill Ayers joined the board of the Fund in 1999 and continues to serve on the board today. He chaired the board for two years during that time.
2) Know your ABCs:
Obama’s DCP supported radical school reform project together with Bill Ayers.
In 1987 in the wake of a controversial strike by the Chicago Teachers’ Union, the Alliance for Better Chicago Schools, or ABCs, was formed to lobby for a new Illinois law that would mandate the establishment of a new power center in Chicago public schools. Local school councils would be established to watchdog union teachers and their principals and they would have the power to fire principals at will.
Bill Ayers helped organize the ABCs group, was its contact person and later its chair. Barack Obama worked on school reform efforts for the DCP at that time and the DCP was a member of the ABCs. Chicago United, a business
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Quote:Everybody knew that Iraq was NOT planning to strike at the USA with WMD, but that didn't prevent the Administration from saying so. Dumbass.
No, he didn't lie because the information he gave was factually accurate, AS BEST HE KNEW, dumbass.
Quote:Yes, it "refers to" the original resolutions, but WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT THEM? SPECIFICALLY??? Quote me the part where Resolution 1441 says that the UN intends to implement the old Resolutions as originally written.
It's not ME saying it, the Resolutions THEMSELVES refer to earlier passed resolutions - SPECIFICALLY.
Quote:If I'm rambling incoherently it's because I'm quoting YOU.
Huh? Now you're simply rambling incoherently
Quote:For the math-challenged, 1999-2002 is a three-year overlap (not five years).
Obama served on the board of the Woods Fund from 1993 until 2002. Bill Ayers joined the board of the Fund in 1999 and continues to serve on the board today.
And what did this "radical reform" consist of??
Quote:In CONSERVATIVE parlance that's called "local control". Seems like you would be FOR that.
Local school councils would be established to watchdog union teachers and their principals and they would have the power to fire principals at will.
Quote:So "she" (Bernadine Dohrn) left Sidly in 1988. ONE YEAR LATER Obama becomes a three-month associate there. How much overlap is that??? Oh yeah: NONE.
She left Sidley in 1988. Barack Obama left Chicago in the fall of 1988 to attend Harvard Law School. In the summer after his first year at Harvard he became an associate in the Chicago office of Sidley and Austin.
I'm busy. I'll respond to the rest later.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Everybody knew that Iraq was NOT planning to strike at the USA with WMD, but that didn't prevent the Administration from saying so. Dumbass.Quote:Yes, it "refers to" the original resolutions, but WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT THEM? SPECIFICALLY??? Quote me the part where Resolution 1441 says that the UN intends to implement the old Resolutions as originally written.
That wasn't the isssue, DUMBASS, it was whether or not Iraq HAD WMD!!
It's not ME saying it, the Resolutions THEMSELVES refer to earlier passed resolutions - SPECIFICALLY.Quote:
Huh? Now you're simply rambling incoherently
It's all in the Resolutions. No need for me to sift through them for you.
Quote:For the math-challenged, 1999-2002 is a three-year overlap (not five years).
Obama served on the board of the Woods Fund from 1993 until 2002. Bill Ayers joined the board of the Fund in 1999 and continues to serve on the board today.
Yeah, for THAT board.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Saint Rap, self-appointed martyr for the 'truth', and hypocrisy practitioner
The biggest connection they have is through Thomas Ayers, Bill Ayers' father.
I posted this in another thread, but in case you don't repsond there (which I expect you won't) I'll repost it here to show what kind of person Tom Ayers was.
... since Thomas Ayers (Bill Ayers' father) fits prominently into your scheme, I thought I'd post some information from his obituary, which shows him to be a radical lefty and person of ill repute (you betcha' 
):
Mr. Ayers headed Commonwealth Edison for seven years, ending in 1980.
Before assuming the top job, he helped negotiate the first labor contract between the energy giant and the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers.
He served on many boards, including that of G.D. Searle, Chicago Pacific Corp. , Zenith Corp., Northwest Industries, First National Bank of Chicago and Tribune Co., owner of the Chicago Tribune, his family said.
He also worked with many nonprofits, serving as the chair of the Chicago Urban League, the Chicago Symphony Orchestra , the Chicago Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Chicago United, Community Renewal Society and the Chicago Community Trust.
Respected by Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., Mayor Richard J. Daley and the business community , he worked with all sides in an effort to curb housing discrimination, his family said.
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BTW: you can't handle the truth !
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Saint Rap, self-appointed martyr for the 'truth', and hypocrisy practitioner
"The claims concerning Obama and Ayers, much to the angst of the Dems, is (sic) anything BUT " debunked".
Except - they have been - with facts.
Simply working in the same organization - ALONG WITH DOZENS OF OTHER PEOPLE WHO ALSO WORKED THERE - doesn't mean anyone has 'close political ties'. Or any ongoing ties at all. Or that anyone shares an agenda from the 60's.
Now, I've posted a list of people who worked on the board directly with Obama. Are you claiming that those people ALSO have a radical agenda and have close political ties ? And if not, what makes them different from Obama ? Why does he get smeared and they don't ?
The same applies to ANY organization associated with another organization that's assopciated with another organization. It doesn't mean individuals are personally linked in any meaningful way.
I've also posted facts refuting Obama's supposed connections with ACORN. As a lawyer, he represented them in a lawsuit which was ALSO joined by the US DOJ against the state of Illinois for equal voting access. Are you saying the US DOJ also helped ACORN bring down the entire US economy by joining the lawsuit ? And if not, why is Obama's connection to ACORN different from the US DOJ's ?
Now this isn't the first time I've brought these facts up - it's the fifth. And you have YET to respond to them.
Up for a challenge ? Try addressing FACTS for a change.
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BTW: You can't handle the truth !
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Quote:Oh, I get it, just not an IMPORTANT one. So, you post these facts that are cogent to only a moment here or there to back up your general view, now I get it- thanks, this saves me a lot of time now.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
After the House did NOT vote on a 'bail out', the market did indeed rebound.
Dumbass, I posted a gorram FACT.
*Terminator voice*
FUCK YOU, ASSHOLE.
This concludes my direct involvement with AU on this board, I now turn my attention to the martial law they're slipping in in case the collapse causes civil war (another reality CRAppy would dispute with his many, albeit briefly if-at-all relevant 'facts').
Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Oh, I get it, just not an IMPORTANT one. So, you post these facts that are cogent to only a moment here or there to back up your general view, now I get it- thanks, this saves me a lot of time now.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
After the House did NOT vote on a 'bail out', the market did indeed rebound.
Dumbass, I posted a gorram FACT.
*Terminator voice*
FUCK YOU, ASSHOLE.
This concludes my direct involvement with AU on this board, I now turn my attention to the martial law they're slipping in in case the collapse causes civil war (another reality CRAppy would dispute with his many, albeit briefly if-at-all relevant 'facts').
Who you kidding? Without AURaptor or Hero here you and the rest of the un-civil gnomes would have no one left to say Fuck You to. Of course you'd still have me, but usually I'm better to hurl a You're a fucking idiot at.
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Quote:
I wish the Left would grow the hell up .
Hell, I've wished that about the Right for most of my adult life. Instead, we get little boys like you who want to play their wittle war games in their itty-bitty sandbox...
Mike
This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.
Trolls Against McCain!
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Quote:Jong, you also have your moments of civil unrest, and times when I agree not with ya, but you never resort to brainless stoogery, which AU has been amping up ever since the economic bubble burst. He's afraid now- and like a virtual cornered, injured animal, he's unapproachable, as far as politics & security go.
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Who you kidding? Without AURaptor or Hero here you and the rest of the un-civil gnomes would have no one left to say Fuck You to. Of course you'd still have me, but usually I'm better to hurl a You're a fucking idiot at.
I just can't deal anymore- maybe when it all calms down, and who the Hell knows when that'll be?
Chrisisall
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By the way, how is it that you can support a person who thinks so little of America that they would actually marry - not "pal around with", but actually MARRY and have children with - someone who is still active in a Secessionist movement? They hate America so much that they actually want their state to break away and become its own country.
I mean, if Obama is the antichrist because he occasionally talked to a person who did some despicable things 40 years ago, how is it that Palin is seen as any more honorable for her actions and associations? She doesn't want to change America, she doesn't want to reform America - she wants Alaska to LEAVE America. How is that putting "Country First"?
Mike
This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.
Trolls Against McCain!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Who you kidding? Without AURaptor or Hero here you and the rest of the un-civil gnomes would have no one left to say Fuck You to. Of course you'd still have me, but usually I'm better to hurl a You're a fucking idiot at.
Yeah, without AwwCrapper around here, who'd call us a bunch of fucking dumbasses?
This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.
Trolls Against McCain!
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Jong, you also have your moments of civil unrest, and times when I agree not with ya, but you never resort to brainless stoogery, which AU has been amping up ever since the economic bubble burst. He's afraid now- and like a virtual cornered, injured animal, he's unapproachable, as far as politics & security go.
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Who you kidding? Without AURaptor or Hero here you and the rest of the un-civil gnomes would have no one left to say Fuck You to. Of course you'd still have me, but usually I'm better to hurl a You're a fucking idiot at.
I just can't deal anymore- maybe when it all calms down, and who the Hell knows when that'll be?
Captain Chris, Friend Chris,
Everyone these days is a bit frazzled, right? If you have money, then what do you do with it? If you're broke, how do you ever get ahead? These are very tough times indeed. It's time for all of us to find something admirable in the thing or things we despise. If not, we'll all be at each other's throats for eternity, like Lazarus. Right now, I'm feeling like McCain's going to lose in 4 weeks. What should I do? I'm also worried that my money is disappearing so that my "retirement" will now include basket boy at the supermarket when I'm 75. I'm hanging tough on all fronts. Better than jumping out the window, right? This forum is a nice distraction, but sometimes it's out of control, and that's when I bail out.
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Quote:Bullshit. You're just running away. I've sifted through them already. What you need to do is sift through them FOR YOU. SHOW US that you have a point. Quote the part of Resolution 1441 that says what YOU say it does. Stop pretending that we can't see through your pathetic avoidance tactics. We can and we do.
It's all in the Resolutions. No need for me to sift through them for you.
Quote:I said I would get to that "later". Get a dictionary and look up that word. Oh, and by-the-by, you havent' addressed my point about Iraq coming at us with WMD. You state the Bush Admin didn't lie. I just pointed out where they did. Address that directly, or run away, showing us (once again) that your brittle, ideologically-driven viewpoint simply cannot handle plain and simple facts.
Yeah, for THAT board.
You have proven to us time and time again that you're constitutionaly incapable of facing disagreeable facts head-on. Stop the childish avoidance. Man up to reality, for heaven's sake.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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"I'm also worried that my money is disappearing so that my "retirement" will now include basket boy at the supermarket when I'm 75."
Your retirement, AnthonyT's home, my savings for my disabled family member who will probably outlive me ... one way or another we are all in this mess (except the very wealthy of course who will never lack for funds).
I have a few general comments, though.
Remember that old adage 'when you find yourself in a hole ---- stop digging' ?
People very rightly place the blame for this mess on Bush. He was handed a strong economy and a government paying down its debt - due to a very unpopular tax increase during Clinton's first administration. But that wasn't good enough for Bush (and his administration). He had to 'fix' something that wasn't broke. For his first act he bankrupted California via Enron and leashed FERC who was supposed to have overseen the energy market. (The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission released two Enron memos describing company plans to inflate energy prices during California's energy crisis of ...) He bankrupted the country through war spending that he didn't even have the honesty to put on the books. He bankrupted the country with his reckless tax cuts. He forbade the state AG's from enforcing anti-predatory lending laws. Lowered capitalization requirements allowing banks to overextend themselves on the speculative housing market.
John McCain was one of the Keating Five - remember that ? It was the Savings and Loan debacle brought about by deregulation promoted by McCain. And Phil Gramm, his economic advisor, authored the bill that eliminated firewalls between speculative investments and banks - the cause of the crisis we have today. Given what they've done and what they stand for ---
Is more of the same going to help this mess ? Or is it time to stop digging ?
Looking back, would you say privatizing Social Security as the Bush administration wanted to do would have been a good thing or a bad thing ?
And if your current retirement was Social Security rather than the stock market, would you be in better or worse shape today ?
Looking back, would you say the party line - everyone can take part in the American dream if they just unleash business to run the country - worked well or not ?
I never bought into that myself. The economy as structured is a zero-sum system - my loss is 'their' gain. That’s what profit is all about. It's like trusting your butt to the interests of a hungry shark. But my fortunes are going the way of everyone else as dictated by YOU and people like you.
So I have to ask - aside from any concern you may have for others - how has your agenda worked out for you ? Has it gone as you planned ?
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Silence is consent.
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Gotta agree with you. Whether you saved or whether you didn't, whether you have a job or are unemployed, whether you own or rent or are foreclosed.... We're all in this together. (Except that top 0.01%. They have lifeboats stocked with caviar and champagne.)
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"I'm also worried that my money is disappearing so that my "retirement" will now include basket boy at the supermarket when I'm 75."
Your retirement, AnthonyT's home, my savings for my disabled family member who will probably outlive me ... one way or another we are all in this mess (except the very wealthy of course who will never lack for funds).
I have a few general comments, though.
Remember that old adage 'when you find yourself in a hole ---- stop digging' ?
People very rightly place the blame for this mess on Bush. He was handed a strong economy and a government paying down its debt - due to a very unpopular tax increase during Clinton's first administration. But that wasn't good enough for Bush (and his administration). He had to 'fix' something that wasn't broke. For his first act he bankrupted California via Enron and leashed FERC who was supposed to have overseen the energy market. (The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission released two Enron memos describing company plans to inflate energy prices during California's energy crisis of ...) He bankrupted the country through war spending that he didn't even have the honesty to put on the books. He bankrupted the country with his reckless tax cuts. He forbade the state AG's from enforcing anti-predatory lending laws. Lowered capitalization requirements allowing banks to overextend themselves on the speculative housing market.
John McCain was one of the Keating Five - remember that ? It was the Savings and Loan debacle brought about by deregulation promoted by McCain. And Phil Gramm, his economic advisor, authored the bill that eliminated firewalls between speculative investments and banks - the cause of the crisis we have today.
Is more of the same going to help this mess ? Or is it time to stop digging ?
Looking back, would you say privatizing Social Security as the Bush administration wanted to do would have been a good thing or a bad thing ?
And if your current retirement was Social Security rather than the stock market, would you be in better or worse shape today ?
Looking back, would you say the party line - everyone can take part in the American dream if they just unleash business to run the country - worked well or not ?
I never bought into that myself. The economy as structured is a zero-sum system - my loss is 'their' gain. That’s what profit is all about. It's like trusting your life to a hungry shark. But my fortunes are going the way of everyone else as dictated by YOU and people like you.
So I have to ask - aside from any concern you may have for others - how has your agenda worked out for you ? Has it gone as you planned ?
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Silence is consent.
Not sure who you're asking these questions of, but since one line is quoted from me I will respond.
Privatization of Social Security, even voluntarily, obviously would have been a disaster for anyone.
Big business can no longer get all the breaks. They do not share the goodies with the middle class. But then again, they do provide the jobs and benefits we all need. But there has to be a middle ground so more people can prosper.
Blaming the current mess on the Keating stuff from 20+ years ago is not logical.
Some of the following is certainly worth considering, wouldn't you agree ? :
Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, Kendrick Meek, et al.....none of those fine statesmen on the Finance Committee did anything wrong? Even a video of the Committees' attack against a Fed Regulator accusing him of racism when he questioned unsound practices at Fannie is not cared about? Dem after Dem defending Fannie & Freddie doesn't matter either? Huge Fannie campaign bribes to Dems don't matter a bit? Sweetheart Countrywide loans to Senate Bank Chair Dodd don't matter? Barney Frank's long-time, well-known sexual relationship with a Fannie Mae Board Member doesn't matter?
Isn't it time for resignations from all these people?
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Jongsstraw: There were, alas, many politicans on both sides asleep at the switch. If I could see the trainwreck ahead... and I'm no expert... what about politicans with all of those "staffers"? And if I can see that the bailout is a godsend ... for the wealthy... what about those who voted for it?
I agree with you: there is MUCH blame to go around. IN GENERAL, I fault the Repubs somewhat more than the Dems simply because I think Republican- pushed "deregulation" was more consequential than Fannie or Freddie. But fault isn't all on Repub shoulders. It's so widespread that it points to a SYSTEMIC problem, so entrenched that simply replacing one set of politicos with another set... even if we could do it en masse third-party... isn't going to solve it.
Later, dude. Back to work.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Jongsstraw: There were, alas, many politicans on both sides asleep at the switch. If I could see the trainwreck ahead... and I'm no expert... what about politicans with all of those "staffers"? And if I can see that the bailout is a godsend ... for the wealthy... what about those who voted for it?
I agree with you: there is MUCH blame to go around. IN GENERAL, I fault the Repubs somewhat more than the Dems simply because I think Republican- pushed "deregulation" was more consequential than Fannie or Freddie. But fault isn't all on Repub shoulders. It's so widespread that it points to a SYSTEMIC problem, so entrenched that simply replacing one set of politicos with another set... even if we could do it en masse third-party... isn't going to solve it.
Later, dude. Back to work.
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Let's party like its 1929.
The bottom line to ALL this is that the American people are making a judgement on all this as best they can. Right now, the vast majority of the bitterness and anger is directed squarely at Bush, and to all Republicans by default. To deny that would be insane. With Democrats in charge of all the legal mechanisms in Congress it will up to them to fix this mess. Based on what you know & have seen, do you think Pelosi & Reid are up to the task? I do not. I'm not completely ready to concede the election, but I'd feel a whole lot better about losing if I could at least count on the Dems to move forward with the Special Prosecutors and the Justice Dept to rev up the perp walks. I want to see prosecutions...prosecution of anyone and everyone involved, regardless of their Party.
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Quote:
By the way, how is it that you can support a person who thinks so little of America that they would actually marry - not "pal around with", but actually MARRY and have children with - someone who is still active in a Secessionist movement? They hate America so much that they actually want their state to break away and become its own country.
And oh the irony of belonging to the party who's deified the bastard who slaughtered untold americans to prevent it...
Still, secession is a uniquely american value - remember, as said time and time again by oh so many of our founding fathers...
"consent of the governed"
Secession is a withdrawl of that consent, and if you CAN'T withdraw it, if you're not ALLOWED to - is it really consent in the first place ?
No, it's rule of the gun, is what it is.
So I would never call secession unamerican, it's absolutely american - and little else about this mutated empire is these days.
By the way, just to panic the rightwingnuts... even Karl Rove is currently biting his nails and privately calling it for Obama 273-265, and with McCain being run out of town on a rail by Michigan, that leaves him only one possible path to win, IF everything goes his way - versus Obama having seventeen possible routes to block it.
Not lookin good for the tired old kool-aid chuggers, now is it ?
-Frem
EDIT: Regarding Barney Frank, et al - I say we fucking fire everyone involved, if not prosecute them for gross negligence.
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"Blaming the current mess on the Keating stuff from 20+ years ago is not logical."
First, I didn't blame the mess on 'the Keating stuff' (strawman). Second, McCain was censured in 1991 - not all that long ago (error of fact). Third, it shows that McCain has an agenda not in the best interests of ordinary people like me. Fourth and last, Gramm was until recently McCain's economic advisor, I'm guessing b/c they share the same philosophy (ignoring an issue).
Is it a philosophy YOU support, given how it's worked out ?
"Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Maxine Waters, Kendrick Meek ..."
Chris Dodd is a Senator, error of fact.
McCain tried to get reforms passed IN THE SENATE in 2005. How Barney Frank and other representatives could have blocked his reforms from their minority committee positions in the HOUSE is beyond me. Further, democrats were in the MINORITY in BOTH houses at the time.
The House of Representatives didn't gain a democratic majority till 2006 . By then Fannie and Freddie BOTH had stopped acquiring toxic loans which were generated mainly in 2003 under a repubican White House AND Congress.
In the Senate terms of absolute numbers Democrats do not to this day have a majority. In terms of relative numbers the Senate is in fact evenly divided between 49 Democrats and 49 repubicans.
"... the only point about Bush is that there is no point. He is not relevant to the future."
So you are in FAVOR of continuing past mistakes because they are irrelevant to the future ? Smooth move.
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Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Blaming the current mess on the Keating stuff from 20+ years ago is not logical."
First, I didn't blame the mess on 'the Keating stuff' (strawman). Second, McCain was censured in 1991 - not all that long ago (error of fact). Third, it shows that McCain has an agenda not in the best insterests of ordinary people like me. Fourth and last, Gramm was until recently McCain's economic advisor, I'm guessing b/c they share the same philospohy (ignoring an issue).
Is it a philosophy YOU support, given how it's worked out ?
"Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Maxine Waters, Kendrick Meek ..."
Chris Dodd is a Senator, error of fact.
McCain tried to get reforms passed IN THE SENATE in 2005. How Barney Frank and other repesentatives could have blocked his reforms from their committee positions in the HOUSE is beyond me. Further, democrats were in the MINORITY in BOTH houses at the time.
The House of Representatives didn't gain a democratic majority till 2006. By then Fannie and Freddie BOTH had stopped acquiring toxic loans which were generated mainly in 2003 under a repubican White House AND Congress.
In the Senate terms of absolute numbers Democrats do not to this day have a majority. In terms of relative numbers the Senate is in fact evenly divided between 49 Democrats and 49 repubicans.
"... the only point about Bush is that there is no point. He is not relevant to the future."
So you are in FAVOR of continuing past mistakes because they are irrelevant to the future ? Smooth move.
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Silence is consent.
Rue, I knew it couldn't last here...honesty & civility. I corrected the Dodd piece in my post before you threw it up in my face.
Now ..let's look at your Signature : " Silence Is Consent". What better describes what the Dem Banking & Finance Chairmen did for the last 2 years?
As for the rest of your response, it's just your usual ideological drivel. Good day sir.
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Quote:I agree. Pelosi and Reid are greatness writ small. Too many Dems have caved on REALLY IMPORTANT issues.
Based on what you know & have seen, do you think Pelosi & Reid are up to the task? I do not. I'm not completely ready to concede the election, but I'd feel a whole lot better about losing if I could at least count on the Dems to move forward with the Special Prosecutors and the Justice Dept to rev up the perp walks.
But Dems in general are not AS beholden to "big money" as Repubs, and are more responsive to popular pressure. Sending THEM a pound of bacon might actually shame them.
There are some dems who simply don't belong in the Party, Feinstein being one of them.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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"Rue, I knew it couldn't last here...honesty & civility. I corrected the Dodd piece in my post before you threw it up in my face."
We cross-posted. Deal with it.
And BTW, this mess was CAUSED by a repubican White House AND Congress. Toxic loans started earlier but were most prevalent in 2003. If you're math-challenged that was FIVE YEARS AGO. Defaults were already rising in 2004. Fannie and Freddie limited their exposure in 2005. By 2006 IT WAS TOO LATE to do anything with Fannie and Freddie that they hadn't already done themselves.
It's time you started acknowledging facts.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
By the way, how is it that you can support a person who thinks so little of America that they would actually marry - not "pal around with", but actually MARRY and have children with - someone who is still active in a Secessionist movement? They hate America so much that they actually want their state to break away and become its own country.
I mean, if Obama is the antichrist because he occasionally talked to a person who did some despicable things 40 years ago, how is it that Palin is seen as any more honorable for her actions and associations? She doesn't want to change America, she doesn't want to reform America - she wants Alaska to LEAVE America. How is that putting "Country First"?
Mike
The Palin's aren't active in any secessionist movement. This is the sort of childish crap that the Left dreams up when they can't honestly respond to the charges against their own candidates.
Seceding from the Union isn't necessarily a matter of HATING the USA, as much as it is of recognizing a vast difference with it and what ever political views held in your land and the dominant political / social culture of the USA. Be it the South, Key West, Texas or Alaska.
In no way does she want to 'leave' America, only to fix it, which it desperately needs fixing.
I'm 100% in favor of her view, and totally reject Obama's socialist view .
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
And BTW, this mess was CAUSED by a repubican White House AND Congress. Toxic loans started earlier but were most prevalent in 2003. If you're math-challenged that was FIVE YEARS AGO. Defaults were already rising in 2004. Fannie and Freddie limited their exposure in 2005. By 2006 IT WAS TOO LATE to do anything with Fannie and Freddie that they hadn't already done themselves.
It's time you started acknowledging facts.
.
That is a lie, and even Jim Cramer points out what happened.
YOU deal w/ it, it's almost wholly at the feet of the Democrats, not the GOP. http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/187307/october-
06-2008/jim-cramer
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:Obama isn't active in any terrorist movement. This is the sort of childish crap that the Right dreams up when they can't honestly respond to the charges against their own candidates
The Palin's aren't active in any secessionist movement. This is the sort of childish crap that the Left dreams up when they can't honestly respond to the charges against their own candidates.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Obama isn't active in any terrorist movement. This is the sort of childish crap that the Right dreams up when they can't honestly respond to the charges against their own candidates
The Palin's aren't active in any secessionist movement. This is the sort of childish crap that the Left dreams up when they can't honestly respond to the charges against their own candidates.
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Let's party like its 1929.
No one ever accused Obama of being active in any terrorist movement. He just agrees w/ their radical educational agendas.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:The why use the term "terrorist" if that isn't what Palin meant to imply? C'mon rapo, even YOU know better than that!
No one ever accused Obama of being active in any terrorist movement.
Quote:Oh, there you go again! Say it aint' so! Bringin' up the boogeyman!
He just agrees w/ their radical educational agendas.
So tell me, what WAS that "radical agenda"? Dontcha know?
BTW, you never DID answer my challenges, you morally deficient cretin of a coward!
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Quote:
Based on what you know & have seen, do you think Pelosi & Reid are up to the task? I do not. I'm not completely ready to concede the election, but I'd feel a whole lot better about losing if I could at least count on the Dems to move forward with the Special Prosecutors and the Justice Dept to rev up the perp walks. I want to see prosecutions...prosecution of anyone and everyone involved, regardless of their Party.
On THAT, we are in complete agreement.
Mike
This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.
Trolls Against McCain!
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Quote:
Originally posted by AuRaptor:
The Palin's aren't active in any secessionist movement. This is the sort of childish crap that the Left dreams up when they can't honestly respond to the charges against their own candidates.
They are far more active, and have been so far more recently, than Obama's "involvement" with domestic terrorists.
Quote:
Seceding from the Union isn't necessarily a matter of HATING the USA, as much as it is of recognizing a vast difference with it and what ever political views held in your land and the dominant political / social culture of the USA. Be it the South, Key West, Texas or Alaska.
Ah, so if you love America too much, you must leave it. I guess those draft dodgers in the sixties were the real patriots then, eh? And the Confederacy must have REALLY loved America. And slavery, of course...
Quote:
In no way does she want to 'leave' America, only to fix it, which it desperately needs fixing.
But she's still married to the guy who still wants to leave. I guess secession is the fix America needs, huh?
Quote:
I'm 100% in favor of her view...
Yes, because you, like Palin, hate America.
Mike
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So rapo, in case you've forgotten, you've been challenged to come forth with evidence backing your talking points that:
UN Resolution 1441 allowed individual member states to invade Iraq. Quote the relevant part of the Resolution.
George Bush did not lie when he said that Iraq wanted to target the USA with WMD. A clarification from Bush would be nice.
Palin did not mean to imply that Obama is sympathetic to a "terrorist" agenda when she used the word "terrorist" to describe a one-time co-worker. A clarification from Palin would be nice, otherwise one might think that she WANTED her statement to be misconstrued.
There was any sort of "link" between Obama and Ayers, other than they worked on education issues together and believed in the same type of educational reform.
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Also, information from YOU showing the heinousness of ACORN or the educational reform that Ayers worked for would be nice, especially since YOU keep quoting the description "radical". (BTW, I've heard conservatives calling for "radical" reform of government. I've heard of "radical" mastectomies. Does that make those peole "radical"? )
So, set the record straight, once and for all. Nut up. Back up your points with real evidence instead of innuendo. Show us what you're truly made of.
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Well Rapo, I guess you've shown us all what you're TRULY made of: a vacuum.
You're a big empty suit waiting to be filled. No wonder you cling to talking points, there's no "there" there, where you are.
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Quote:
Well Rapo, I guess you've shown us all what you're TRULY made of: a vacuum.
Well, he certainly does SUCK!
Mike
This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.
Trolls Against McCain!
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Gov. Palin isn't married to anyone who wants to leave America. Her own son is fighting FOR America, in Iraq. Pretty shallow charges you guys have.
Quote:
Ah, so if you love America too much, you must leave it. I guess those draft dodgers in the sixties were the real patriots then, eh? And the Confederacy must have REALLY loved America. And slavery, of course...
That doesn't even make any sense. If you love the country, you'd never leave it. Moron. We didn't HATE the British, we just wanted to live life on our own terms. That's why folks decide to dissolve the political bonds which tie them to another. Draft dodgers didn't go off to form another country, so that analogy fails, miserably.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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"Gov. Palin isn't married to anyone who wants to leave America."
You're right of course. He wants the entire STATE to leave America, and him with it. And that makes it better --- how exactly ?
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Gov. Palin isn't married to anyone who wants to leave America. Her own son is fighting FOR America, in Iraq. Pretty shallow charges you guys have.
So Todd Palin has never been a registered member of the Alaskan Independence Party? Their founder, speaking of secession from America, had this to say:
Quote:
The Alaskan Independence Party quotes Vogler as stating "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."
I suppose those "damned institutions" they have no use for don't include the Vice Presidency or the Presidency, right?
For the record, Alaska's election registration records show that Todd Palin was indeed a registered member of the AIP. So Palin is married to a secessionist. That's a fact. Deal with it.
Quote:
That doesn't even make any sense. If you love the country, you'd never leave it.
Obviously, then, Todd Palin doesn't love America, since he has supported secession.
Quote:
We didn't HATE the British...
Nah, we just shot them for the sport of it.
Quote:
...we just wanted to live life on our own terms. That's why folks decide to dissolve the political bonds which tie them to another.
You're talking about political bonds such as running for the Vice Presidency, I assume. I agree - the Palins SHOULD dissolve all their political bonds.
Mike
This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.
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Don't know where else to post this (didn't want to start a new thread):
Global Electoral College votes (voting ends 1 November):
Obama 8482
McCain 16
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/10/what-if-the-who.htm
l
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Trolls Against McCain, my friends.
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for completeness:
Published on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 by Times Online/UK
McCain Campaign Paid Republican Operative Accused of Voter Fraud
by Hannah Strange
John McCain paid $175,000 of campaign money to a Republican operative accused of massive voter registration fraud in several states, it has emerged.
As the McCain camp attempts to tie Barack Obama to claims of registration irregularities by the activist group ACORN, campaign finance records detailing the payment to the firm of Nathan Sproul, investigated several times for fraud, threatens to derail that argument.
The documents show that a joint committee of the McCain-Palin campaign, the Republican National Committee and the California Republican Party, made the payment to Lincoln Strategy, of which Mr Sproul is the managing partner, for the purposes of "voter registration".
Mr Sproul has been investigated on numerous occasions for preventing Democrats from voting, destroying registration forms and leading efforts to get Ralph Nader on ballots to leach the Democratic vote.
In October last year, the House Judiciary Committee wrote to the Attorney General requesting answers regarding a number of allegations against Mr Sproul's firm, then known as Sproul and Associates. It referred to evidence that ahead of the 2004 national elections, the firm trained staff only to register Republican voters and destroyed any other registration cards, citing affidavits from former staff members and investigations by television news programmes.
One former worker testified that "fooling people was key to the job" and that "canvassers were told to act as if they were non-partisan, to hide that they were working for the RNC, especially if approached by the media," according to the committee's letter. It also cited reports from public libraries across the country that the firm had asked to set up voter registration tables claiming it was working on behalf of the non-partisan group America Votes, though in fact no such link existed.
Such activities "clearly suppress votes and violate the law", wrote John Conyers, the Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee. The letter suggested that the Judiciary Department had failed to take sufficient action on the allegations because of the politicisation of the department under the then-attorney general, John Ashcroft.
The career of Mr Sproul, a former leader of the Arizona Republican Party, is littered with accusations of foul play. In Minnesota in 2004, his firm was accused of sacking workers who submitted Democratic registration forms, while other canvassers were allegedly paid bonuses for registering Bush voters. There were similar charges in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Oregon and Nevada.
That year, Mr Sproul's firm was paid $8,359,161 by the Republican Party, according to a 2005 article in the Baltimore Chronicle, which claimed that this was far more than what had been reported to the Federal Elections Commission.
Mr McCain and his running mate Sarah Palin have been linking allegations of registration fraud by ACORN, the community group, to the Obama campaign.
ACORN has been accused of registering non-existent voters during its nationwide drive, with reports of cartoon characters such as Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse being signed up.
The organisation insisted that these are isolated incidents carried out by a handful of workers who have since been dismissed.
However, the Republican nominee insists that the group is involved in fraudulent activities, noting that Mr Obama, before leaving the legal profession to enter politics, was once part of a team which defended the organisation. At last week's debate, he said that ACORN was "perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history", a claim which the Obama campaign says represents political smear.
The revelation of Mr Sproul's involvement with the McCain campaign - he has also donated $30,000 to the ticket and received at least another $37,000 directly from the RNC - could undermine his case.
"It should certainly take away from McCain's ar
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