The Over used River? by Morse

DALEK!

Even more reason for you all to join my side and ignore the comics!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 16, 2012 3:37 AM

Unfortunately, money is all the bean counters understand.

So I'll keep buying the Serenity comics in the hopes that eventually something I like may be produced, until they become truly offensive or nauseating.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:17 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE: Unfortunately, money is all the bean counters understand.

So I'll keep buying the Serenity comics in the hopes that eventually something I like may be produced, until they become truly offensive or nauseating.

The Serenity comics could become good if they had a goal or future for the crew, rather than one-damn-stupid-thing-after-another, no-plan, whatever-sells plots. My favorite big unifying idea for the comics is Beaumonde, on the Rim, will start launching waves of colonists toward Earth withing two years, the Alliance is secretly opposed but publicly supportive, and Serenity comics get entangled. River is goin' for a ride to Earth, obviously, if she is still alive in two years. Who's going with her? Everybody and Jayne, hopefully.

Jayne is going because he is running from his unpaid gambling debts and child support payments. The rest of the crew have their own more admirable reasons.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:33 AM

You know, normally I don't like easy plot resolutions, where the heroes don't even have to confront the villains and end the threat they pose. But it occurs to me that there is a potential here for a tragically cruel scenario where the cryogenics fail and the crew have to decide which of them should remain awake to manage the equipment while the rest sleep, thus that person will be gone by the time they reach earth.

It'd be like Out of Gas, exponential. In fact, I'd go with Mal just so Out of Gas can be foreshadowing.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:38 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE: You know, normally I don't like easy fixes like "Earth is still okay and they can just leave the Alliance behind and be happy." But it occurs to me that there is a potential here for a tragically cruel scenario where the cryogenics fail and the crew have to decide which of them should remain awake to manage the equipment while the rest sleep, thus that person will be gone by the time they reach earth.

It'd be like Out of Gas, exponential. In fact, I'd go with Mal just so Out of Gas can be foreshadowing.

I want River as the sacrificial lamb, not Mal. I was thinking of Going To Earth as the natural way to end the Serenity comics. If the comics are selling well, the crew might miss getting on the first and second waves of colonists to Earth so that Darkhorse can stretch out the life of the comic series. If the comics sell poorly, then forget the whole idea of Earth and do something else with the comic.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:52 AM

Why River? The whole point of the series has been to keep her alive and away from the Alliance.

I mean I guess you could have a sequence where River tricks all of them into going back into cryo without her, but characterizations and the rule of dramatics states that Mal would somehow overcome that, refuse to allow all the sacrifices they've already made for River mean nothing, and ultimately be the one to stay awake.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 16, 2012 5:14 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

It is a matter of personal taste: Mal deserves his happily ever after ending when the Serenity comics end. River is the odd-man-out, the virgin sacrifice who throws herself into the volcano for the others. Her ending is most tragic.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 16, 2012 5:21 AM

It's going to be tragic no matter what. The problem is that River dying makes everything else that happened absolutely pointless. Plus Mal's love interest is going to die anyway - he doesn't HAVE a happy ending. And Simon would be outraged at the entire crew for allowing this to happen. It doesn't work. Mal sacrificing himself is the only one that all the other characters would accept. It's also his responsibility as captain, which was demonstrated in Out of Gas, so it's also the only option that's in character. It has to be Mal.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 16, 2012 6:13 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

Can you compromise your artistic vision about the final issue of Serenity comics? Mal and River almost dead like Tony Stark in the final minutes of The Avengers? Then the Hulk, I mean Jayne, saves them both? I want a happy ending because it is the final issue.

Should someone have to die, kill Jayne. It will be in the style of Book's death, with big guns firing, and a noble death soliloquy. Who would have thought Jayne could gallantly end with so much style? Everyone else survives to go to Earth.

With her fatal disease, Inara goes into hyper-sleep, not knowing if she will live long enough to awaken and see Earth. Mal kisses her to sleep. It will be beautiful.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:00 AM

Aw man, don't post my old shit, it sucks so much. There's a reason I deleted that stuff.

>I want a happy ending because it is the final issue.

...You realize we're talkin' Joss here? At best all we can hope for is bittersweet. But, it's not really his role, but I guess Jayne can save them. I'd be willing to compromise on that maybe, seeing how this is a hypothetical scenario.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:05 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

If River gets stable enough then I don't care who she hooks up with, I'm no longer responsable. But stable River equals boring to me so I don't read those stories, though everyone has the right to write them if they so choose. But if River is still touched and hooks up with someone I'm deeply concerned about mutual concent issues, so I only read River romances where the guy is touched as well, there are a few out there and I like them.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:09 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE: ...You realize we're talkin' Joss here? At best all we can hope for is bittersweet. But, it's not really his role, but I guess Jayne can save them. I'd be willing to compromise on that maybe, seeing how this is a hypothetical scenario.

Joss can kill Jayne in the final issue of Serenity, making Joss feel good. The bitter-sweet ending will be Inara perhaps dying in hyper-sleep to Earth and Mal's sad goodbye kiss. The touch of hope is that a cure might be found in the Verse while Mal and Inara sleep for decades.

The Serenity comic goes into hiatus, similar to the 8 months gap between Buffy Season 8 and 9. When it comes back, we have Serenity comics about terraforming. River is a lonely archeologist studying the mysterious end of Earth's civilization! Mal and Zoe are Martian cattle ranchers.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:20 AM

MORSE

I'm surprised this topic has gone on this long. I just thought it was going to end with the 12 posts it had... and here we are with 60 somethin'.

Anyway, I think that River's general purpose as far as the over all story goes has ended. They've found out her great secret and advantage. Now you'll argue "Oh no, because now they can talk about how the alliance is after her, and bla bla bla" - The Alliance knows she's on the Serenity, and they've been going after the crew in order to get her.

But there are five other people on the crew that they could do things about, but they keep picking up River, and not bothering to expand on virtually anyone else. Not every day has to be a "The Alliance is after River". Make up a new character, and have them go charging after the crew or something.

There are 14 made episode of firefly, an unproduced script, and a move, and of all of these things, only two episodes and the movie actually have 'The Alliance wants river' as the primary issue. - that means 4/5s of the series involved other things.

Its a space western... so lets get some cowboy crap goin' that involved the rest of the crew, rather then 'river saves the day' and no one knows about it.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:46 AM

MARKOMI

Some people juggle geese!

Okay... Now a part of me's glad the series ended where it did.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:44 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by MarKomi: Okay... Now a part of me's glad the series ended where it did.

Don't worry, if the comics continue I would be willing to bet that no one is heading to earth.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:54 PM

Yeah, they have to take out Blue Sun, and there might be a verse-wide apocalyptic pax-related social breakdown before that.

But Two likes his going to Earth ending and if that's the story he wants to write, that's his choice.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 17, 2012 2:58 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

I'm would not send Serenity comics to Earth until the comics are over, finished, ended at issue #120. That would be ten years, which is more than enough. Between now and then, Mal needs a direction or he meanders and the comics follow him. Earth is a direction. River was a direction, before the movie. The comics haven't been going anywhere for years because Mal doesn't have anything to do except eat, sleep and fight. That isn't enough purpose for a middle-age adult and his comics.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 17, 2012 3:54 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by two: I'm would not send Serenity comics to Earth until the comics are over, finished, ended at issue #120. That would be ten years, which is more than enough. Between now and then, Mal needs a direction or he meanders and the comics follow him. Earth is a direction. River was a direction, before the movie. The comics haven't been going anywhere for years because Mal doesn't have anything to do except eat, sleep and fight. That isn't enough purpose for a middle-age adult and his comics.

The problem is Firefly was basicly the story of Mal and the crew just making a living. I think that aspect is what made the show standout. You can have a longer running story while the crew continues to take jobs and scratch out a living, but in the end Mal's direction is simply to keep flying.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 17, 2012 4:59 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson: . . . Firefly was basicly the story of Mal and the crew just making a living. I think that aspect is what made the show standout.

"Just making a living." That's the premise for Undercover Boss. I do not watch that show.

When I watched Firefly, "just making a living" did not describe what I saw. The Train Job was about sociopath Niska, Bushwhacked was Reavers, Shindig was dueling, Safe was zealots burning at the stake, Our Mrs Reynolds was sociopath Saffron, Jaynestown was sociopath Jayne, Out of Gas was the hallucinations of dying Mal, etc. I liked watching Mal steer his ship around crazy people. Not one of those stories was about simply making a living, but "just making a living" reminds me of what the writers are doing with the recent comics. Those comics are lacking ambitions to get ahead in the world.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 17, 2012 5:13 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by two: When I watched Firefly, "just making a living" did not describe what I saw. The Train Job was about sociopath Niska, Bushwhacked was Reavers, Shindig was dueling, Safe was zealots burning at the stake, Our Mrs Reynolds was sociopath Saffron, Jaynestown was sociopath Jayne, Out of Gas was the hallucinations of dying Mal, etc. I liked watching Mal steer his ship around crazy people. Not one of those stories was about making a living, but "just making a living" reminds me of what the writers are doing with the recent comics. Those comics are lacking ambitions to get ahead in the world.

The Train Job was called that because it was the crew stealing something to make a living. Bushwhacked the crew stuck around the ship to salvage goods to sell. Shindig Mal was about trying to get a job. Safe started with completing the job they got in Shindig. Jaynestown had the crew completing a job. Out of Gas had the ship traveling off the radar because they most likely they were smugling something.

Almost ever episode had to do with things that happened because of the crew was trying to make a living. Heart of Gold, Objects in Space, and The Message were the only ones that did not directly, or indirectly, tie into this theme.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 17, 2012 8:46 AM

EBFIDDLER

Ha, I think you're *both* right!

Firefly is about the daily events, making a living -- "the people history stepped on" -- and it's ALSO about the sociopaths, zealots, and terrors they encounter, the extremes of survival, and all the messy moral ambiguity involved in overcoming what life throws at them. Nine people looking out and seeing nine different things.

There seems to be a consensus that "Mal/Jayne/whomever screws up; River saves the day (with the possible variants of doing it in a short skirt, with digitally enhanced boobage)" is a boring and over-used plot that gets old fast. Even Joss's creative take on the old trope of "wisp of a girl in peril...who turns out to have unexpected power and kicks ass" has been done before: I am not looking for Firefly to become "Buffy in Space." What attracted me to Firefly, and will continue to attract me if the comic is done properly, is *complex characters*. Mal is interesting, not because he's a hero (or anti-hero, take it how you like it) -- it's because he's *complicated* -- likeable and flawed and with enough personal baggage to power season after season of episodes. I want River (and all the other characters) to be just as complex and multi-layered.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 17, 2012 9:11 AM

MORSE

Two's point is.... wrong. There's no way around that. The entire series is based around the crew of the Serenity either doing a job, or having trouble on the road to their next port of harbor.

The only elements of the series that 'do not' have that as the backdrop are "Heart of Gold" - Which is them helping out a friend. And Serenity - Which could be argued differently, since they do in fact do a job at the beginning, are kicking simon off the ship, and River causes them to have trouble on the road.

As for going back to Earth..... What part of "earth got used up" don't you get. If there was hope of going back there, I'm sure it might have been mentioned. But if the crew needs to "get away from Blue Sun" (Which I think is a load of crap conspiracy and not true), there are plenty of moons on the rim that they can go play on.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 17, 2012 12:54 PM