Draining The Swamp

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Friday, June 13, 2025 02:56
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SIGNYM

Friday, October 27, 2017 12:46 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
I'll hit you with one more for the day: Trump made a big show of saving jobs at Carrier in Indiana. He hasn't done that again. There are thousands of factories he could show up at to save jobs from being exported. But he hasn't done it because that's work, the work is not fun for Trump, and he never meant what he said about saving factory jobs in the first place. It was all about creating a show for Trump's amusement. Trump didn't do another Carrier because V.P. Pence, ex-governor of Indiana, did all the real work for Trump. Since Pence didn't have a second Indiana factory ready to save, Trump never saved another.

I was under the impression that factory jobs was an important part of Trump's appeal to Signym.

Nope! I wrote an extremely long post about why Trump would NOT be able to revive the economy, and I'll recap it for you here: In order to revive the economy, Trump would not only have to slap import duties on the specific sector(s) that he's aiming at- say, steel, chip fab, heavy-duty electrical grid components, autos, and cloth and clothing - he would have to somehow DIRECT INVESTMENT into those areas. Because, IMHO, "the market" doesn't respond in a timely manner; there's a huge lag between price rise and capital investment. So he would need to have a national bank to provide the appropriate loans to the right companies, for example. But NO political party would allow that, would they? Both Dems and Repubs are committed to "privatization", even when it doesn't work well (like in the health care sector).

There were three things I was hoping Trump would accomplish, because I believe they're extremely important and rbecause they're in any President's purview of foreign policy:

1) Kill TPP and TTIP. DONE. Those would have given up our sovereignty to trade tribunals. Also, it would be nice to extricate ourselves from NAFTA, CAFTA, and other "free trade" agreements.

2) Reverse illegal immigration. IN PROCESS.

3) End our endless wars. FAILURE.

I never thought that he would equalize wealth, revive manufacturing, revive our healthcare system, repair our infrastructure, or do all of those other domestic-agenda things that are beyond his capacity as President. Domestic affairs are Congress' purview.

I would have hoped that with this blatant attack on Trump, with the press blowing a blizzard of lies and the Dems putting up yet-another-fake-enemy (Russia!!!) and more identity politics for you to get tweaked about, you would have seen the seamy underbelly of your sainted Dems and the so-called "free" (bought-and-paid-for) press and hopefully would have learned to look at politics with a more critical eye. Instead, you got completely taken in by the shit show, and you haven't gained any insight at all.

EDITED TO ADD:

SECOND, I don't think you understand how important killing the TPP and TTIP was. There were clauses in both agreements that allowed industries to sue governments for interference in their ability to obtain normal and customary profits. The decisions would be made, not in some state or federal court, but in an secret trade tribunal, made up of trade lawyers who would be deciding solely on the basis of whether or not the agreement was upheld or not.

What does this mean?

Let's say that California adopts a law which requires petroleum products sold in the state not require more than a certain amount of carbon to extract and process. So, for example, petroleum products sourced from Canadian tar sands ... which require a prodigious amount of water and energy to extract and crack ... would not be able to be sold in CA. According to these trade agreements, a Canadian tar sands company would be able to sue to state of CA for interfering in its ability to obtain normal and customary profits. The dispute would be decided in a trade tribunal - probably in Singapore - and since the laws of CA aren't respect

SECOND

Friday, October 27, 2017 4:38 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

How would you plan to raise taxes on the most wealthy 1% anyhow?
Are you a proponent of Consumption Tax?

Pick a tax. Any tax. Whatever tax you pick to target the 1 percenters' wealth, the wealthy will be enraged and energized to oppose. They will spread propaganda and outright falsehoods (backup by fake scholarly research) convincing the other 99%. That is why these things are the way they are, because the majority (but nowhere near all) of people in the lower 99% are gullible. The only thing the 99% know for sure is they want to pay less and the 1% can use that against the 99%. Works nearly every single time the 1% apply that plan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States

Why You Shouldn't Count On Trump's Promised $4,000 'Raise' From GOP Tax Plan
www.npr.org/2017/10/24/559634802/why-you-shouldnt-count-on-the-promise
d-4-000-raise-from-gop-tax-plan

SIGNYM

Friday, October 27, 2017 5:01 PM (P)

Quote:
Pick a ~~tax~~ war/ enemy/ victim subgroup/ regulation/ economic sector. Any ~~tax~~ war/ enemy/ victim subgroup/ regulation/ economic sector. Whatever ~~tax~~ war/ enemy/ victim subgroup/ regulation/ economic sector you pick to target the 1 percenters' wealth, the wealthy will be enraged and energized to oppose. They will spread propaganda and outright falsehoods (backup by fake scholarly research) convincing the other 99%. That is why these things are the way they are, because the majority (but nowhere near all) of people in the lower 99% are gullible.

Wow, SECOND, you complain that OTHER people are gullible???

Ahem!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SECOND

Friday, October 27, 2017 5:50 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

There were three things I was hoping Trump would accomplish, because I believe they're extremely important and rbecause they're in any President's purview of foreign policy:

1) Kill TPP and TTIP. DONE. Those would have given up our sovereignty to trade tribunals. Also, it would be nice to extricate ourselves from NAFTA, CAFTA, and other "free trade" agreements.

"Can everyone stop saying Donald Trump killed off the Trans-Pacific Partnership? He didn’t. It was already dead. Thanks to pressure from ordinary Americans – yes, it really does work – TPP already lay without a pulse on the floor of Congress. There is no need to congratulate Trump’s bigoted regime or pretend he has assembled a cabinet that isn’t teeming with corporate interests."
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/24/donald-trump-tpp-trans-p
acific-partnership-president-hillary-clinton

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Friday, October 27, 2017 5:57 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Pick a ~~tax~~ war/ enemy/ victim subgroup/ regulation/ economic sector. Any ~~tax~~ war/ enemy/ victim subgroup/ regulation/ economic sector. Whatever ~~tax~~ war/ enemy/ victim subgroup/ regulation/ economic sector you pick to target the 1 percenters' wealth, the wealthy will be enraged and energized to oppose. They will spread propaganda and outright falsehoods (backup by fake scholarly research) convincing the other 99%. That is why these things are the way they are, because the majority (but nowhere near all) of people in the lower 99% are gullible.
Wow, SECOND, you complain that OTHER people are gullible???

Ahem!

Do you recall that I have often claimed to be of the 1% ? I continue to make that claim. I was trying to think of way to prove it. Finance Serenity 2? That would be a bad investment based on Serenity's boxoffice, especially if the new movie script follows the comics. Mal stands up against the entire Alliance in the comics. If it wasn't a comic, he'd be dead a dozen times. He's no tactical genius; he's just ridiculously lucky.

Despite voting for Democrats, I will accept my oversized share of Trump's tax cut, if and when it passes. You don't get to be a 1% if you don't take advantage of other people's gullibility. I'm not cheating them, like that old fraudster Trump. They give me their money and they don't sue afterwards, again, completely un-Trump-like.
www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/01/donald-trump
-lawsuits-legal-battles/84995854/

SIGNYM

Friday, October 27, 2017 10:52 PM (P)

You being a 1-percenter has nothing to do with being gullible or not. Seriously, I have no idea why you keep bringing it up. You've got your head stuck so far up the DNC's ass, you're looking out of its mouth.

There are two explanations for that:

1) You truly believe in the bleeding-heart liberal-victim-globalist political model, and you believe that the Dems are better than the Repubs. In that case, you're gullible.

2) Or you believe in the liberal-victim-globalist political model, to break everyone up into warring groups so that the elite [i.e you] can take over, in which case the Dems really DO represent your interests, and you just use them for political cover/ virtue signalling. In that case, you're a swamp creature.

So, which is it?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, October 27, 2017 11:37 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
How would you plan to raise taxes on the most wealthy 1% anyhow?
Are you a proponent of Consumption Tax?
Pick a tax. Any tax. Whatever tax you pick to target the 1 percenters' wealth, the wealthy will be enraged and energized to oppose. They will spread propaganda and outright falsehoods (backup by fake scholarly research) convincing the other 99%. That is why these things are the way they are, because the majority (but nowhere near all) of people in the lower 99% are gullible. The only thing the 99% know for sure is they want to pay less and the 1% can use that against the 99%. Works nearly every single time the 1% apply that plan.

Any tax.
Income Tax. The wealthy 1% have no need to work, or have income. They have enough to live on for years, many more years than the current or next administration will be in office. So no additional Income Tax will be collected from Zero Income. In fact, the existing Revenue from the current amount of taxed Income will evaporate. As Jayne pointed out in Pilot Serenity, a meager percent of something is better than 100% of Nothin. Remember Reaganomics.

Capital Gains Tax. If the wealthy choose to divest of Capital Investments, Zero Capital Gains will result. Again, a higher percentage of Zero is less than a meager percentage of something. Heard of the Great Depression?

Corporate Tax, or Tax on Profit. If their wealth is divested from productive Companies, Zero Profit will result. Again, Zero Tax revenue from Zero Profit.

In each case, increase of Tax RATE results in less Tax REVENUE, and productivity stagnates, and all of the 99%ers lose out on all of the income they could have had from the 1%ers allowing their money to work. Resulting in less Tax REVENUE from the 1%, more unemployment and less Tax REVENUE from the 99%, and more War from despots who sense a weak America. The 1% did not starve during the Great Depression, and their wealth was not at risk of confiscatory Taxes without it being invested.

So far, your Any Tax concept falls flat.
Which Tax were you going to increase to confiscate dollars from the wealthy?

SIGNYM

Saturday, October 28, 2017 12:35 AM (P)

You'd have to revamp the tax structure because it's far too easy for corporations and transnational elites to declare their profits in tax havens, or hide their wealth in "instant" subsidiaries and foundations (with fake histories and pro-forma boards) such as provided by banks like Mossack Fonseca. (I'm always referencing M-F NOT because it's unusual, simply because it had a large amount of internal documents leaked, which demonstrated its internal workings and how it provided these services.)

To make clear how this works, let's say you have a petroleum extraction company in the USA, and you want to avoid paying USA taxes. So what you do is sell your oil to an oil tanker subsidiary which flies the Panamanian flag, but you sell it for a really cheap price. So your USA taxes are low because the sale price is low. Your shipping company transports the oil to Japan, and sells it for a high price. It makes beaucoups bucks in profit, but because the subsidiary which made the profit is registered in Panama ... and there are no corporate taxes in Panama ... you get to keep nearly all of the profit that you made.

So there would have to be some definitional changes in where and how sales are made to avoid these various tax avoidance schemes.

If it were me, I'd simply drop the tax rate but also eliminate specialized deductions, exemptions, expenses, depreciations, subsidies, etc. which have been crafted to benefit big business, because the way it is right now only small and medium-sized business get nailed.

OH BTW- JSF- that concept that lower rates increase tax revenues has been disproved over and over and over again. That is a misapplication of a concept called the aptly-named "Laffer Curve". Every tax-cutting Republican President - including Reagan- sang that song, and every one of them was proved wrong, as demonstrated by the history of actual government revenues versus tax rates.

Before you forward an idea like this, it would be useful to look up actual numbers to see if it's been validated by reality.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SECOND

Saturday, October 28, 2017 1:25 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Capital Gains Tax. If the wealthy choose to digest of Capital Investments, Zero Capital Gains will result. Again, a higher percentage of Zero is less than a meager percentage of something. Heard of the Great Depression?

Corporate Tax, or Tax on Profit. If their wealth is divested from productive Companies, Zero Profit will result. Again, Zero Tax revenue from Zero Profit.

. . . So far, your Any Tax concept falls flat.
Which Tax were you going to increase to confiscate dollars from the wealthy?

Your thinking is too much all or nothing. You can slowdown the 3 million American 1 percenters from tax-cheating and jerking America around in random directions by purchasing shares in their companies. Norway’s $1 Trillion sovereign wealth fund owns more than 1 percent of global stocks. If the USA had a sovereign wealth fund, the US government would have a great deal of say over how badly the 1 percenters run America and how much they can cheat on their taxes and how crappy they treat employees.
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-27/norway-1-trillion-wealth-fu
nd-gains-3-2-as-stocks-soar-higher

Then the problem moves to who controls America’s sovereign fund. Trump’s philanthropy shows how untrustworthy he is with amounts under $6 million. It would be better to leave control in the hands of 3 million greedy, irrational American 1 percenters than transfer it to him, the greediest 1 percenter there is.
www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/washington-posts-david-fahrenth
old-wins-pulitzer-prize-for-dogged-reporting-of-trumps-philanthropy/2017/04/10/dd535d2e-1dfb-11e7-be2a-3a1fb24d4671_story.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Saturday, October 28, 2017 4:42 AM (P)

Quote:
Your thinking is too much all or nothing. You can slowdown the 3 million American 1 percenters from tax-cheating and jerking America around in random directions by purchasing shares in their companies. Norway’s $1 Trillion sovereign wealth fund owns more than 1 percent of global stocks.SECOND

It just goes to show that being rich and being smart aren't related. More about that in a bit ...

Quote:
If the USA had a sovereign wealth fund, the US government would have a great deal of say over how badly the 1 percenters run America and how much they can cheat on their taxes and how crappy they treat employees.
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-27/norway-1-trillion-wealth-fu
nd-gains-3-2-as-stocks-soar-higher

Do you have any idea where Norway's sovereign wealth fund money came FROM? It came from Norway's nationalized oil industry.

Say, SECOND, how would you like your gas wells nationalized? If not that, which industry or industries do YOU suggest that the United States government nationalize, in order to get non-tax revenues for this sovereign wealth fund that you recommend?

Quote:
THE NORWAY MODEL
NORWAY IS THE odd man out in the Nordics. While its neighbours are flirting with free markets, Norway is embracing state capitalism. Its national oil champion, Statoil, is the largest company in the region. The Norwegian state owns large stakes in Telenor, the country’s biggest telephone operator, Norsk Hydro, its biggest aluminium producer, Yara, its biggest fertiliser- maker, and DnBNor, its biggest bank. It holds 37% of the Oslo stockmarket, but it also controls some non-listed giants such as Statkraft, a power-generator, which if listed would be the third-biggest company on the stockmarket.

Hubby and I both think that the government SHOULD nationalize some industries: oil and gas, electricity, and banking, to start with. That way, it could earn profits directly and not have to worry about winkling it out of the pockets of the greedy elite.

But I'm sure you would never agree to that, and neither would the Dems.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

OONJERAH

Saturday, October 28, 2017 2:00 PM (P)

Need to Impeach
Tom Steyer (1957) is an American hedge fund manager,
philanthropist, environmentalist, progressive activist, & fundraiser.

Trump Slams Tom Steyer as ‘Wacky,’ ‘Unhinged’ Amid Impeachment Campaign
The progressive activist has launched an eight-figure television campaign that aims to build momentum for Trump’s impeachment.
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-10-27/trump-sw
ipes-at-billionaire-tom-steyer-amid-impeachment-ad-campaign

Trump says Democratic donor airing impeachment ads on TV is ‘totally unhinged’
... “A Republican Congress once impeached a president for far less, and today people in Congress and his own administration know that this president is a clear and present danger,” Steyer says in the ad, which directs viewers to a NeedToImpeach website.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/10/27/trump-
says-democratic-donor-airing-impeachment-ads-on-tv-is-totally-unhinged/?utm_term=.7db77ab0194f

... oooOO}{OOooo ...
from the Tom Steyer Fan Club

SECOND

Saturday, October 28, 2017 6:17 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

It just goes to show that being rich and being smart aren't related. More about that in a bit ...

Do you have any idea where Norway's sovereign wealth fund money came FROM? It came from Norway's nationalized oil industry.

Say, SECOND, how would you like your gas wells nationalized? If not that, which industry or industries do YOU suggest that the United States government nationalize, in order to get non-tax revenues for this sovereign wealth fund that you recommend?

Just as a reminder, the Federal Government once owned most of the land west of the Mississippi, but it gave away the very best parts. There was your sovereign wealth fund. That give away of land was the origin of the swamp in Washington. The greediest Americans become owners of free land from the Federal Government. And it has worked very well for people like me. Maybe no so much for the other 99%.

There will eventually be another big give away that is even more valuable than all that land and doing nothing about it works best for the 1 percenters.

Can you image a solution to the following problem? A 1 percenter can and it would be to do nothing more than let them own everything. That has always been the default solution in Washington, because the alternative solutions require decades for the majority of the other 99 percent to coalesce around an alternative to doing nothing.
www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/10/you-will-lose-your-job-to-a-robot
-and-sooner-than-you-think/
I want to tell you straight off what this story is about: Sometime in the next 40 years, robots are going to take your job.

I don’t care what your job is. If you’re a magazine writer, a robot will write your articles better. If you’re a doctor, IBM’s Watson will be a better doctor than you. Artistic types? Robots will paint and write and sculpt better than you. Think you have social skills that no robot can match? Yes, they can. Within 20 years, maybe half of you will be out of jobs. A couple of decades after that, most of the rest of you will be out of jobs.

In one sense, this all sounds great. Let the robots have the damn jobs! No more dragging yourself out of bed at 6 a.m. or spending long days on your feet. We’ll be free to do whatever we want to do. And a century from now, this is most likely how things will turn out. Humanity will enter a golden age.

But what about 20 years from now? Or 30? We won’t all be out of jobs by then, but a lot of us will—and it will be no golden age. Until we figure out how to fairly distribute the fruits of robot labor, it will be an era of mass joblessness and mass poverty. Working-class job losses played a big role in the 2016 election, and if we don’t want a long succession of demagogues blustering their way into office because machines are taking away people’s livelihoods, this needs to change, and fast. Along with global warming, the transition to a workless future is the biggest challenge by far that progressive politics—not to mention all of humanity—faces. For conservative politics, it is NOT a challenge other than what are 1 percenters, who will own most of the robots, going to do with their enormous piles of money? I look forward to that day, but the other 99% might not.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SHINYGOODGUY

Saturday, October 28, 2017 6:58 PM (P)

Let me cut to the quick...

Trump is out to destroy the country, with Russia's help.

Anyone supporting that lying sack of shit, is doing the same. His is not about making this country great "again," it's always been great. You do have several lying sacks of shit from all sides - including and especially the alt-right.

That's it.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
I'm going to need time to unpack this......whatever you call it, response.
But I felt the need to comment, however briefly, on a few things...

And what exactly does this mean:
Quote:
Hell just froze over. Again!

It means that you agreed with me, and I agreed with you, again. For a second time. That doesn't happen very often!

Quote:
I don't view Trump as an honest, or even competent, politician.- SIGNY

I agree except, I think Trump is the worst of politicians. At least the parts he plays at. - SHINY
So, you prefer politicians say all the usual soothing things and who convince you that it's for you own good as they jam you with a stick? 'Cause I agree, Trump sucks at that part!

Quote:
But when you bring your own swamp with you, the OLD swampers don't let go of power without a fight.- SIGNY

I agree. Hell now will freeze over.- SHINY
Again!

Quote:
Establishment" Republicans were just as reluctant to allow Trump to the ascendancy as Democrats. Even now, the support that Trump has from the GOP is grudging, and Dems downright hate him: he's a DC outsider, an interloper. - SIGNY

An interloper he is, an outsider he's not. Interloper because nobody wanted him; for good reason...He's an idiot. He's made money in business, but he's a destroyer. He uses the system to "steal" his millions through chicanery and intimidation. It's a whole new ballgame when it comes to politics; of which he knows little, but he has pursued the presidency and has played the game (poorly, but he's played). He even said so himself; while addressing the US Coast Guard Academy recently - "No politician has been treated worse" in regards to the media attention(May 17, 2017).- SHINY
You're saying so many things in the comment, each one needs to be addressed independently.

Quote:
... nobody wanted him; for good reason...He's an idiot.

The swamp didn't want Trump because he's an idiot?
Baloney.
Trump could be a blithering idiot, like brain-burned GWB or pre-dementia Reagan, but ONLY if Trump didn't mind having someone's hand up his ass turning him into a sock-puppet ... like Cheney did to Bush II, and Bush I did to Reagan. If Trump allowed himself to be the human skin of the swamp, the swamp wouldn't mind HOW stupid he was! In fact, really stupid Presidents are more conveniently manipulated. IDIOCY is not the problem.

Quote:
He uses the system to "steal" his millions through chicanery and intimidation.
Unlike the Clintons, who apparently used every office they ever had to enrich themselves, leaving an unlikely trail of dead bodies behind them; finally using the State Department and the Clinton Foundation in a pay-to-play scheme whereby the Clintons stole BILLIONS from their "charity"?

Quote:
It's a whole new ballgame when it comes to politics; of which he knows little
Therefore, he's an outsider' you just said so yourself. Which do you prefer, SHINY: the person who smoothly convinces you that it's for your own good, as you get butt-fucked? Or the person who doesn't know how to whisper sweet nothings in your ear?

Quote:
"No politician has been treated worse" in regards to the media attention
This is probably true, but being treated badly by the press is not a reflection of ANY person's moral character, since the press is a duplicitous lying sack of corporate interest. The fact that the Press printed so many lies about Trump .... which btw is slowly coming

SECOND

Saturday, October 28, 2017 7:15 PM (P)

No One Says 'Stranger Things' Than Donald Trump

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

1KIKI

Saturday, October 28, 2017 9:17 PM (P)

And STILL no evidence.

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

SECOND

Tuesday, October 31, 2017 4:49 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
And STILL no evidence.

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

There is plenty of evidence about what Trump is doing. Congressional Republicans can't stop talking about how Trump is the President who will make their dreams come true: House Speaker Paul Ryan said that “nothing is going to derail what we’re doing in Congress.” As far as he’s concerned, small matters like the integrity of the American political process and the rule of law are unimportant compared to the greater good of tax cuts for rich people and large corporations.
http://wtaq.com/news/articles/2017/oct/30/ryan-tax-reform-is-essential/

This should not come as a surprise to anyone familiar with Ryan’s history as a fanatical Ayn Rand acolyte. Ryan is a guy who states openly that he’s dreamed since his youth of depriving poor children of medical coverage.
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/17/14960358/paul-ryan-medicaid-
keg

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SHINYGOODGUY

Tuesday, October 31, 2017 4:59 PM (P)

Not to worry, Trump is about to keep his word about Draining the Swamp, although not quite the way he had in mind when he declared his run for the Top Man in all the land.

He's getting a great assist from a man called Mueller.

Drain the Swamp!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
And STILL no evidence.

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?
There is plenty of evidence about what Trump is doing. Congressional Republicans can't stop talking about how Trump is the President who will make their dreams come true: House Speaker Paul Ryan said that “nothing is going to derail what we’re doing in Congress.” As far as he’s concerned, small matters like the integrity of the American political process and the rule of law are unimportant compared to the greater good of tax cuts for rich people and large corporations.
http://wtaq.com/news/articles/2017/oct/30/ryan-tax-reform-is-essential/

This should not come as a surprise to anyone familiar with Ryan’s history as a fanatical Ayn Rand acolyte. Ryan is a guy who states openly that he’s dreamed since his youth of depriving poor children of medical coverage.
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/17/14960358/paul-ryan-medicaid-
keg

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Tuesday, October 31, 2017 10:55 PM (P)

Quote:
Let me cut to the quick...
Trump is out to destroy the country, with Russia's help. - DULL

Let ME cut to the quick: Anyone who believes that is as gullible as those who believed that Saddam had WMD, that Noriega was a major drug runner, that Qaddafi was massacring his own people, and that the NSA respects the Constitution.

There are a lot of issues about which I vehemently disagree with Trump, and many campaign promises that I know he can't keep or hope he won't keep, and I have to say that he is probably the least Presidential man to be elected in recent history (although there've been a few drunkards and rowdies in the past).

But of all of the bad things you might believe about Trump, this is the one that I don't worry about. At all. The only thing I worry about is that a bunch of idiots will believe the propaganda and take their eye off the REAL ball, which is our common economic and social interests.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THGRRI

Tuesday, October 31, 2017 10:57 PM (P)

As the title suggests the swamp is being drained. The reality of it though is that it is Bob Mueller that is doing it not Trump. Trump and his crony crooks are the ones being flushed.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, October 31, 2017 11:43 PM (P)

DRAINING THE SWAMP

Both parties make up the swamp, And since Trump is a latecomer to DC, it's not possible for him to be part of the longstanding swamp that is Washington

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THGRRI

Tuesday, October 31, 2017 11:59 PM (P)

Everyone today who deflects the story away from Trump will be left with having to deal with why they did so in the face of what Mueller's investigation uncovers.

It will all come full circle. Fox news will be forced to capitulate. Isn't this exciting?

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Wednesday, November 1, 2017 12:30 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Capital Gains Tax. If the wealthy choose to digest of Capital Investments, Zero Capital Gains will result. Again, a higher percentage of Zero is less than a meager percentage of something. Heard of the Great Depression?

Corporate Tax, or Tax on Profit. If their wealth is divested from productive Companies, Zero Profit will result. Again, Zero Tax revenue from Zero Profit.

. . . So far, your Any Tax concept falls flat.
Which Tax were you going to increase to confiscate dollars from the wealthy?
Your thinking is too much all or nothing.

Still waiting to hear of your Tax.
Hailing Government as the Almighty Miracle Investment Vehicle is not a Tax.
"Investment" of tax dollars from the 99% is not a Tax on the 1%.

Are you admitting that you lied about a Tax that would confiscate more funds from the Wealthy, other than a reduced Tax RATE, or Consumption Tax?

SIGNYM

Wednesday, November 1, 2017 12:42 AM (P)

Quote:
Everyone today who deflects the story away from Trump ...

Was Trump indicted? No?

If Mueller is doing is his job looking in an unbiased manner, he'll bird dog this down and capture swamp creatures of BOTH parties. Dirty Debbie and Imran. Hillary, Bill, and the Clinton Foundation. Both Podestas. Lobbyists of all stripes and sizes. Flynn (except Flynn may have been doing the deep state's bidding when it comes to Gulen and Turkey; we may never hear that story again.) Banks and bankers laundering money.

It's a swamp of longstanding. It's been in existence since the creation of the CIA. Many creatures have learned to make their home there.

***

Again, NOT A DEFENSE OF TRUMP. There are many things about which I disagree. Just a dispute with the hyperventilation and hysteria over a totally phony issue, which is simply diverting you from the real economic (jobs, manufacturing, debt) and security (terrorism, hegemony) issues at hand.

Sigh.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SECOND

Wednesday, November 1, 2017 4:34 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Again, NOT A DEFENSE OF TRUMP. There are many things about which I disagree. Just a dispute with the hyperventilation and hysteria over a totally phony issue, which is simply diverting you from the real economic (jobs, manufacturing, debt) and security (terrorism, hegemony) issues at hand.

Sigh.

You have convinced yourself that Trump had a real interest in real economic and real security issues, but phony issues are getting in Trump's way. Trump is a total fake. He never gives any attention to those real issues, which were Bannon's talking points to get Trump elected. He spends all his time thinking about himself and his personal fortune.

Since election day, congressional Republicans have been helping Donald Trump cover up something shady in his personal finances from years before the election and doing so without having any real idea what it is that’s being covered up.

What Trump worries about, according to many different accounts of his thinking, is what he always worries about — money and the prospect that the impunity for misconduct that he, like many other rich businessmen, has enjoyed throughout his career may not withstand the scrutiny that a President's history from before election always gets.

A Monday evening Associated Press account of Trump’s reaction to the day’s news said he “has become increasingly concerned that the Mueller probe could be moving beyond Russia to an investigation into his personal dealings,” citing “two people familiar with the president’s thinking.” A Washington Post article with three bylines says that “Trump is also increasingly agitated by the expansion of Mueller’s probe into financial issues beyond the 2016 campaign.” These remarks hark back to a July 19 interview with the New York Times in which Trump called any probing of his business affairs a “red line” that special counsel Robert Mueller shouldn’t cross.

A halfway decent president would voluntarily make meaningful financial disclosures. And a Congress with even a basic sense of self-preservation would force a president who refuses to make them to do so.

Unfortunately, at the moment, America has neither. We have Trump. And we have a cover-up in which Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, and basically every single House and Senate Republican is complicit, even though they have no way to know what they are covering up.

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/31/16579204/trump-finances-mue
ller

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Wednesday, November 1, 2017 5:30 AM (P)

Quote:
Again, NOT A DEFENSE OF TRUMP. There are many things about which I disagree. Just a dispute with the hyperventilation and hysteria over a totally phony issue, which is simply diverting you from the real economic (jobs, manufacturing, debt) and security (terrorism, hegemony) issues at hand.

Sigh. - SIGNY

You have convinced yourself that Trump had a real interest in real economic and real security issues, - SECOND

EVERY TIME YOU TELL ME WHAT I THINK, YOU GET IT HEAD-BANGINGLY WRONG. And it doesn't seem to matter HOW MANY times I tell you ... over and over, you STILL get it wrong!

Can you stop hyperfocusing on Trump, for a moment?

FORGET Trump's interests. YOU have interests, REAL ones, and I absolutely-fucking-guarantee you it's not "Russia!!!"

Quote:
but phony issues are getting in Trump's way.- SECONDRATE

Phony issue are getting in YOUR way, hon.

Tell me, what interest do you have in constant wars in the Middle East (and elsewhere)?
What interest do you have in Ukraine?
What interest do you have in "The State of Freedom in Russia"? How is that any more meaningful than the state of freedom in Uganda? Or Honduras?

Are you saying that you DON'T have any interests closer to home, or more important? Or are you so laser-focused on the size of Trump's hands or his personal finances that you just. can't. seem. to. turn. your. attention. to. more. important. matters?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SECOND

Wednesday, November 1, 2017 6:30 AM (P)

Signym, if you believed anything (anything at all) Trump said before or after election, you are stupid. I could modify that to gullible, but think stupid says it best.

Maybe you were attracted by Steve Bannon's thoughts coming from Trump's mouth? But Bannon doesn't coach Trump all day, every day, since he was fired. Now all we hear is Trump's thinking and it is indeed very chaotic, is it not?

If you think anyone on fireflyfans.net but you and 1kiki care much about US policy toward Ukraine, you are stupid. (There is the "s" word again) You find it impossible to ignite a conversation on a myriad of subjects because nobody cares much. It always ends with you being attacked by everyone except 1kiki because you are stupid about other people.

I will make believe that you're not stupid. Let's both pretend, shall we? We will dive in and out of the swamp quickly. Maybe a swamp leech will bite your ass and draw blood. And it is actually about why American military policy is an ineffectual mess:

America’s unthinking reverence for its fighters is forestalling a badly needed reappraisal of how it organises its forces, and to what end. The fact is, America’s foreign-policy doctrines envisage a degree of global dominance, based on military might, which its volunteer force is now too small to enforce. And to increase the force sufficiently, on current trends, appears unaffordable or impossible. “This force cannot carry out that foreign policy,” concludes Andrew Bacevich, a historian and former army officer, who happens also to be a Gold Star father.

This constitutes a looming crisis, which could logically end in one of two ways. Either America will have to reintroduce conscription. Or it must curtail its military ambitions. Neither outcome is palatable to American policymakers, however, so the problem is seldom discussed. Maintaining the happy delusion that America’s forces are ideal and irreproachable makes that easier. But reality cannot be deferred indefinitely.

www.economist.com/news/united-states/21730738-it-also-leads-lot-fuzzy-
thinking-about-armed-forces-americas-love-affair

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Wednesday, November 1, 2017 12:43 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Signym, if you believed anything (anything at all) Trump said before or after election, you are stupid. I could modify that to gullible, but think stupid says it best. - SECOND

Is it possible for you to post ANYthing without mentioning Trump? Try, just try on your next post to see if you can.

Quote:
Maybe you were attracted by Steve Bannon's thoughts coming from Trump's mouth? But Bannon doesn't coach Trump all day, every day, since he was fired. Now all we hear is Trump's thinking and it is indeed very chaotic, is it not?

Trump is not your problem. I don't know WHAT your problem is, but it's very very deep-seated.

Quote:
If you think anyone on fireflyfans.net but you and 1kiki care much about US policy toward Ukraine, you are stupid.

Oh, for a while that's all GSTTRING, KRAPO, and THUGR could talk about. So I guess THEY must be really stupid!

Quote:
You find it impossible to ignite a conversation on a myriad of subjects because nobody cares much.

Except about Ukraine. And Russia. Next month who knows what it'll be about! Nobody seems to remember from month to month what they were all tweaked about!

Quote:
It always ends with you being attacked by everyone except 1kiki because most people here are bullies or trolls.

I will make believe that you're not stupid. That's MY stab at being a troll! How'd I do?

... America’s unthinking reverence for its fighters is forestalling a badly needed reappraisal of how it organizes its forces, and to what end. The fact is, America’s foreign-policy doctrines envisage a degree of global dominance, based on military might, which its volunteer force is now too small to enforce. And to increase the force sufficiently, on current trends, appears unaffordable or impossible. “This force cannot carry out that foreign policy,” concludes Andrew Bacevich, a historian and former army officer, who happens also to be a Gold Star father.

This constitutes a looming crisis, which could logically end in one of two ways. Either America will have to reintroduce conscription. Or it must curtail its military ambitions. Neither outcome is palatable to American policymakers, however, so the problem is seldom discussed. Maintaining the happy delusion that America’s forces are ideal and irreproachable makes that easier. But reality cannot be deferred indefinitely.

So, if you see that as a fundamental American problem, did Trump create it?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SHINYGOODGUY

Wednesday, November 1, 2017 1:18 PM (P)

So, let me get this straight.....you mean to say that Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Oh goody gum drops! Golly gee Batman, they are good guys after all.

I'm sorry I ever doubted Comrade Putin.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Let me cut to the quick...
Trump is out to destroy the country, with Russia's help. - DULL
Let ME cut to the quick: Anyone who believes that is as gullible as those who believed that Saddam had WMD, that Noriega was a major drug runner, that Qaddafi was massacring his own people, and that the NSA respects the Constitution.

There are a lot of issues about which I vehemently disagree with Trump, and many campaign promises that I know he can't keep or hope he won't keep, and I have to say that he is probably the least Presidential man to be elected in recent history (although there've been a few drunkards and rowdies in the past).

But of all of the bad things you might believe about Trump, this is the one that I don't worry about. At all. The only thing I worry about is that a bunch of idiots will believe the propaganda and take their eye off the REAL ball, which is our common economic and social interests.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SHINYGOODGUY

Wednesday, November 1, 2017 1:31 PM (P)

Not according to "our experts" Thgrri.

We are the gullible ones for even thinking that this administration is guilty of any wrongdoing. Not enough time to develop....no, "establish" those nasty habits
that long has been a staple of "both" parties. Trump and his merry band of angels
have bent over backwards to move this country forward (Sarah said so, several times).

I don't know about you, but I've always had trouble detecting "fact from fiction"
I AM TRULY GULLIBLE.

Boy, does that feel good to admit. Finally I see the light. Now I can concentrate on the "truth" - it's out there!

And Fox News, now there's a very together media outlet. They have their collective finger on the pulse of the nation. How could I have been so blind?

(Hey Thgrri, did that come off as too sarcastic? I could never tell)

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Everyone today who deflects the story away from Trump will be left with having to deal with why they did so in the face of what Mueller's investigation uncovers.

It will all come full circle. Fox news will be forced to capitulate. Isn't this exciting?

SIGNYM

Wednesday, November 1, 2017 3:12 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
So, let me get this straight.....you mean to say that Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Oh goody gum drops! Golly gee Batman, they are good guys after all.

I'm sorry I ever doubted Comrade Putin.- DULL

Do you really... REALLY ... think this is the problem we have with Russia - that they're jealous of our freedoms?

That's a serious question, by the way.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SECOND

Wednesday, November 1, 2017 6:29 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
So, let me get this straight.....you mean to say that Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Oh goody gum drops! Golly gee Batman, they are good guys after all.

I'm sorry I ever doubted Comrade Putin.- DULL

Do you really... REALLY ... think this is the problem we have with Russia - that they're jealous of our freedoms?

That's a serious question, by the way.

As the world marks the centenary of the October Revolution, Russia is once again under the rule of the tsar.
www.economist.com/news/leaders/21730645-world-marks-centenary-october-
revolution-russia-once-again-under-rule

A century isn't enough time to change the Russian peasants. America has the same problem, a vast army of ignoramuses, P. T. Barnum's suckers born every minute. If an American can’t read or add and subtract, their life is difficult because they can’t understand what a literate person can. Likewise, there are Americans who can’t read Trump, calculate that he is a liar, and see that he is conning them. Feel sad for them because they were being conned long before Trump.

Their lives are frustrating because they can’t understand being conned by businesses, TV, bosses at their jobs, banks, etc. Too bad for them, but good for the conmen and the greatest conman of 2016, Donald J Trump. Trump now needs an exit strategy to get out of town before the people he cheated realize what happened to their money.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Wednesday, November 1, 2017 7:48 PM (P)

Nope. I guess you CAN'T write a post without mentioning Trump! Despite the fact that he's a mere interloper in a decades-old swamp, and had no hand (politically, anyway) in creating the problems we're facing.

Tell me, SECONDRATE, if Trump was the "greatest conman of 2016" [interesting that you had to limit that to one year...] who was the greatest conman of 2015?

Or putting it another way, who is the greater conman? The one that many people think is a conman, or the one that many people believe is a saint?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SIGNYM

Wednesday, November 1, 2017 9:08 PM (P)

This is what I find so disturbing about you all: what you seem to be terrified of is that you might have been exposed to - *GASP!* - new ideas!

So Russia injected something like 0.1% of content into the media (social or otherwise) of 2016?

So what?

Do you think Russia is the only one representing their POV internationally? What do you think WE do, broadcasting Radio Free Europe/ Radio Liberty, and putting CIA staff on media payroll overseas? What do you think WE do, opining away during the campaign about the [un]suitability of Marine Le Pen as leader of France? Do you really think that we don't attempt to sway elections - or social movements - using every means at our disposal?

You guys are mental marshmallows. If you had put just the teensiest of thought into questions like ...

What are our biggest problems?
Who caused them, and how can we fix them?
How can I tell truth from lies?
What are my moral standards? Am I applying them even-handedly?
Why do I believe the things that I believe?

... you wouldn't be so terrified of having your "thoughts" (and I use the term loosely) contaminated by some random tweet from who-knows-where; maybe Russia maybe the CIA. But there you are, terrified that the propaganda in your brain might get slightly askew because some thought from somewhere impinged on it. So you're willing to let Google and Twitter and FB scrub information for you, censoring out the things that might make you - and the deep state - uncomfortable, instead of learning how to LOGICALLY filter the information for yourself.

What has disappeared from the news?
Why is there a sudden intense media campaign on a certain topic, even if nothing has changed or the topic is unimportant?
Does this item make sense, even with a back-of-the envelope estimation?
Are these opinions, allegations, or actual evidence?
Is anyone moving the goalposts?
What are the contradictions within this item, and where does it contradict other items from the same source?
Who has lied to me in the past? How can I not be fooled in the future?
Who benefits?

You need to be more robust. (Just like our economy needs to be more robust.) You need to be asking yourselves difficult questions, and answering them with something more than conditioned response. In that sense, I agree with SECOND about the mental fitness of most Americans. Maybe you should start out with the understanding that there IS a swamp, and that the politicians that you insist on reacting to as if they were your surrogate daddies and mommies think of you as nothing more than exploitable peons.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THGRRI

Wednesday, November 1, 2017 10:08 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
This is what I find so disturbing about you all: what you seem to be terrified of is that you might have been exposed to - *GASP!* - new ideas!

So Russia injected something like 0.1% of content into the media (social or otherwise) of 2016?

So what?

Do you think Russia is the only one representing their POV internationally? What do you think WE do, broadcasting Radio Free Europe/ Radio Liberty, and putting CIA staff on media payroll overseas? What do you think WE do, opining away during the campaign about the [un]suitability of Marine Le Pen as leader of France? Do you really think that we don't attempt to sway elections - or social movements - using every means at our disposal?

You guys are mental marshmallows. If you had put just the teensiest of thought into questions like ...

What are our biggest problems?
Who caused them, and how can we fix them?
How can I tell truth from lies?
What are my moral standards? Am I applying them even-handedly?
Why do I believe the things that I believe?

... you wouldn't be so terrified of having your "thoughts" (and I use the term loosely) contaminated by some random tweet from who-knows-where; maybe Russia maybe the CIA. But there you are, terrified that the propaganda in your brain might get slightly askew because some thought from somewhere impinged on it. So you're willing to let Google and Twitter and FB scrub information for you, censoring out the things that might make you - and the deep state - uncomfortable, instead of learning how to LOGICALLY filter the information for yourself.

What has disappeared from the news?
Why is there a sudden intense media campaign on a certain topic, even if nothing has changed or the topic is unimportant?
Does this item make sense, even with a back-of-the envelope estimation?
Are these opinions, allegations, or actual evidence?
Is anyone moving the goalposts?
What are the contradictions within this item, and where does it contradict other items from the same source?
Who has lied to me in the past? How can I not be fooled in the future?
Who benefits?

You need to be more robust. (Just like our economy needs to be more robust.) You need to be asking yourselves difficult questions, and answering them with something more than conditioned response. In that sense, I agree with SECOND about the mental fitness of most Americans. Maybe you should start out with the understanding that there IS a swamp, and that the politicians that you insist on reacting to as if they were your surrogate daddies and mommies think of you as nothing more than exploitable peons.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SIGNYM

Wednesday, November 1, 2017 10:32 PM (P)

Quote:
You need to be asking yourselves difficult questions, and answering them with something more than conditioned response.- SIGNY

Now THAT'S funny!- THUGR

Well, we can see that THUGR not only didn't rise to the challenge, he didn't even understand it! But hey, thanks for the bump!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SECOND

Thursday, November 2, 2017 1:38 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Tell me, SECONDRATE, if Trump was the "greatest conman of 2016" [interesting that you had to limit that to one year...] who was the greatest conman of 2015?

Or putting it another way, who is the greater conman? The one that many people think is a conman, or the one that many people believe is a saint?

Paul Ryan wins for 2015. He is in the news today. House Republicans were supposed to unveil their tax proposal today, but it has been put off.

They’re delaying because on the verge of trying to pass a huge change in the U.S. tax system, they still haven’t settled on key parts of the proposal — specifically, how to pay for huge corporate tax cuts and large cuts to wealthy individuals.

But wait — how is this possible? Republicans, and specifically Paul Ryan, the speaker of the House, have been talking about tax “reform” and putting out white papers for years — actually, since 2010. How can basic things be up in the air at this late date?

The answer, of course, is that Ryan and friends have been faking it all these years. Has Ryan been swamped by the complexity of the task? Or is Ryan the swamp? Impossible to tell for sure without a lie detector. But I'll say he is a great conman. Maybe he will be the Greatest Conman of 2017! Only two months to go and his competition is Trump.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-01/tax-bill-delay-deals-gop-se
tback-even-before-hell-breaks-loose

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SHINYGOODGUY

Thursday, November 2, 2017 3:11 PM (P)

You know Siggy, you make me laugh (well, it's better than you making me sick I guess). Actually, strike that.....

It pisses me off! You think that you've cornered the market in critical thinking, and that you are the only one that understands the fits and starts of the world.
Yeah, I fool around and make quirky comments because that's what I choose to do; I have my reasons. But don't kid yourself, don't think for an instant that I don't get what's going on.

I choose when and how I respond. I choose the what, when and where...my choice!

Mental marshmallows!? Where'd you get that...a Cracker Jacks box! Puh-lease!
Delusions of grandeur.

Let me leave before I let loose the Dogs of War (I got that from the movie Gladiator) Ha! I kill me!

Keep on Trucking!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
This is what I find so disturbing about you all: what you seem to be terrified of is that you might have been exposed to - *GASP!* - new ideas!

So Russia injected something like 0.1% of content into the media (social or otherwise) of 2016?

So what?

Do you think Russia is the only one representing their POV internationally? What do you think WE do, broadcasting Radio Free Europe/ Radio Liberty, and putting CIA staff on media payroll overseas? What do you think WE do, opining away during the campaign about the [un]suitability of Marine Le Pen as leader of France? Do you really think that we don't attempt to sway elections - or social movements - using every means at our disposal?

You guys are mental marshmallows. If you had put just the teensiest of thought into questions like ...

What are our biggest problems?
Who caused them, and how can we fix them?
How can I tell truth from lies?
What are my moral standards? Am I applying them even-handedly?
Why do I believe the things that I believe?

... you wouldn't be so terrified of having your "thoughts" (and I use the term loosely) contaminated by some random tweet from who-knows-where; maybe Russia maybe the CIA. But there you are, terrified that the propaganda in your brain might get slightly askew because some thought from somewhere impinged on it. So you're willing to let Google and Twitter and FB scrub information for you, censoring out the things that might make you - and the deep state - uncomfortable, instead of learning how to LOGICALLY filter the information for yourself.

What has disappeared from the news?
Why is there a sudden intense media campaign on a certain topic, even if nothing has changed or the topic is unimportant?
Does this item make sense, even with a back-of-the envelope estimation?
Are these opinions, allegations, or actual evidence?
Is anyone moving the goalposts?
What are the contradictions within this item, and where does it contradict other items from the same source?
Who has lied to me in the past? How can I not be fooled in the future?
Who benefits?

You need to be more robust. (Just like our economy needs to be more robust.) You need to be asking yourselves difficult questions, and answering them with something more than conditioned response. In that sense, I agree with SECOND about the mental fitness of most Americans. Maybe you should start out with the understanding that there IS a swamp, and that the politicians that you insist on reacting to as if they were your surrogate daddies and mommies think of you as nothing more than exploitable peons.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SHINYGOODGUY

Thursday, November 2, 2017 3:15 PM (P)

Hey Thgrri,

Good one! But did you see the "mental marshmallow" crack? I do believe that the cheese has slipped off someone's cracker.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
This is what I find so disturbing about you all: what you seem to be terrified of is that you might have been exposed to - *GASP!* - new ideas!

So Russia injected something like 0.1% of content into the media (social or otherwise) of 2016?

So what?

Do you think Russia is the only one representing their POV internationally? What do you think WE do, broadcasting Radio Free Europe/ Radio Liberty, and putting CIA staff on media payroll overseas? What do you think WE do, opining away during the campaign about the [un]suitability of Marine Le Pen as leader of France? Do you really think that we don't attempt to sway elections - or social movements - using every means at our disposal?

You guys are mental marshmallows. If you had put just the teensiest of thought into questions like ...

What are our biggest problems?
Who caused them, and how can we fix them?
How can I tell truth from lies?
What are my moral standards? Am I applying them even-handedly?
Why do I believe the things that I believe?

... you wouldn't be so terrified of having your "thoughts" (and I use the term loosely) contaminated by some random tweet from who-knows-where; maybe Russia maybe the CIA. But there you are, terrified that the propaganda in your brain might get slightly askew because some thought from somewhere impinged on it. So you're willing to let Google and Twitter and FB scrub information for you, censoring out the things that might make you - and the deep state - uncomfortable, instead of learning how to LOGICALLY filter the information for yourself.

What has disappeared from the news?
Why is there a sudden intense media campaign on a certain topic, even if nothing has changed or the topic is unimportant?
Does this item make sense, even with a back-of-the envelope estimation?
Are these opinions, allegations, or actual evidence?
Is anyone moving the goalposts?
What are the contradictions within this item, and where does it contradict other items from the same source?
Who has lied to me in the past? How can I not be fooled in the future?
Who benefits?

You need to be more robust. (Just like our economy needs to be more robust.) You need to be asking yourselves difficult questions, and answering them with something more than conditioned response. In that sense, I agree with SECOND about the mental fitness of most Americans. Maybe you should start out with the understanding that there IS a swamp, and that the politicians that you insist on reacting to as if they were your surrogate daddies and mommies think of you as nothing more than exploitable peons.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SIGNYM

Thursday, November 2, 2017 3:30 PM (P)

Quote:
Mental marshmallows!? Where'd you get that.- DULL

Well, that's what SECOND has been saying, in essence, even if not using that phrase.

Just go check out his posts. He says it, over and over: Americans are stupid. And you're American, right?

I just decided to stop defending "Americans" from SECOND's amply-displayed disgust!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SECOND

Thursday, November 2, 2017 6:42 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Mental marshmallows!? Where'd you get that.- DULL
Well, that's what SECOND has been saying, in essence, even if not using that phrase.

Just go check out his posts. He says it, over and over: Americans are stupid. And you're American, right?

I just decided to stop defending "Americans" from SECOND's amply-displayed disgust!

Trump's approval rating hovers around 35%. That doesn't mean 35% are stupid; it could be less. But a nation really will have problems that last far beyond Trump's lifetime when that many people approve of him. Those Trump approvers can push America into some awfully weird decisions when guided by their Congressional conmen.

Just to drive the point in about (some) Americans and their understanding of (some) American history:
www.theatlantic.com/notes/2017/11/five-books-to-make-you-less-stupid-a
bout-the-civil-war/544628/

On Monday, the retired four-star general and White House Chief of Staff John Kelly asserted that “the lack of an ability to compromise lead to the Civil War.” This was an incredibly stupid thing to say. Worse, it built on a long tradition of endorsing stupidity in hopes of making Americans stupid about their own history. Stupid enjoys an unfortunate place in the highest ranks of American government these days. And while one cannot immediately affect this fact, one can choose to not hear stupid things and quietly nod along. . . .

Battle Cry Of Freedom: Arguably among the greatest single-volume histories in all of American historiography, James McPherson’s synthesis of the Civil War is a stunning achievement. Brisk in pace. A big-ass book that reads like a much slimmer one. The first few hundred pages offer a catalogue of evidence, making it clear not just that the white South went to war for the right to own people, but that it warred for the right to expand the right to own people. Read this book. You will immediately be less stupid than some of the most powerful people in the West Wing.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Thursday, November 2, 2017 7:57 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Just go check out his posts. He says it, over and over: Americans are stupid. And you're American, right?

I just decided to stop defending "Americans" from SECOND's amply-displayed disgust!

What if Mueller proves his case and it doesn’t matter?

Different polls find different things, and it’s always difficult to distinguish what people really believe from what they say on surveys. But if 30 percent of America’s 200 million registered voters are Republicans, and 40 percent of those don’t believe Obama was born in the US, well, that’s 24 million people, among them the most active participants in Republican politics.

In short, an increasingly large chunk of Americans believes a whole bunch of crazy things, and it is warping our politics. More examples of crazy things here: www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/2/16588964/america-epistemic-c
risis

This basic story has been told plenty of times, but the reason we should not let it out of our sights right now is the Mueller investigation. We are disturbingly close to the following scenario:

Say Mueller reveals hard proof that the Trump campaign knowingly colluded with Russia, strategically using leaked emails to hurt Clinton’s campaign. Say the president — backed by the Wall Street Journal editorial page, Fox News, Breitbart, most of the US Cabinet, half the panelists on CNN, most of the radio talk show hosts in the country, and an enormous network of Russian-paid hackers and volunteer shitposters working through social media — rejects the evidence.

They might say Mueller is compromised. It’s a Hillary/”deep state” plot. There’s nothing wrong with colluding with Russia in this particular way. Dems did it first. All of the above. Whatever.

Say the entire right-wing media machine kicks to life and dismisses the whole thing as a scam — and conservatives believe them. The conservative base remains committed to Trump, politicians remain scared to cross the base, and US politics remains stuck in partisan paralysis, unable to act on what Mueller discovers.

In short, what if Mueller proves the case and it’s not enough? Do we drown in The Swamp?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SHINYGOODGUY

Friday, November 3, 2017 3:52 PM (P)

Well put Second. This is the scenario that I see coming down the pike. I watched an expert in media and propaganda say something close to your assessment; but he stressed that the Trump Administration is following a familiar pattern of advertising - repeat the message consistently, pound it into the mind of the audience and after a while it will become reality - or some such.

Much like the "Fake News" mantra that is gobbled up by the Trump faithful.

It is the old Jedi Mind Trick.......ad infinitum!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Just go check out his posts. He says it, over and over: Americans are stupid. And you're American, right?

I just decided to stop defending "Americans" from SECOND's amply-displayed disgust!

What if Mueller proves his case and it doesn’t matter?

Different polls find different things, and it’s always difficult to distinguish what people really believe from what they say on surveys. But if 30 percent of America’s 200 million registered voters are Republicans, and 40 percent of those don’t believe Obama was born in the US, well, that’s 24 million people, among them the most active participants in Republican politics.

In short, an increasingly large chunk of Americans believes a whole bunch of crazy things, and it is warping our politics. More examples of crazy things here: www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/2/16588964/america-epistemic-c
risis

This basic story has been told plenty of times, but the reason we should not let it out of our sights right now is the Mueller investigation. We are disturbingly close to the following scenario:

Say Mueller reveals hard proof that the Trump campaign knowingly colluded with Russia, strategically using leaked emails to hurt Clinton’s campaign. Say the president — backed by the Wall Street Journal editorial page, Fox News, Breitbart, most of the US Cabinet, half the panelists on CNN, most of the radio talk show hosts in the country, and an enormous network of Russian-paid hackers and volunteer shitposters working through social media — rejects the evidence.

They might say Mueller is compromised. It’s a Hillary/”deep state” plot. There’s nothing wrong with colluding with Russia in this particular way. Dems did it first. All of the above. Whatever.

Say the entire right-wing media machine kicks to life and dismisses the whole thing as a scam — and conservatives believe them. The conservative base remains committed to Trump, politicians remain scared to cross the base, and US politics remains stuck in partisan paralysis, unable to act on what Mueller discovers.

In short, what if Mueller proves the case and it’s not enough? Do we drown in The Swamp?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SHINYGOODGUY

Friday, November 3, 2017 4:17 PM (P)

Well Siggy, since you often twist the meaning of things people post, I will check it.

Actually, I'm an alien.....Kryptonian to be exact.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Mental marshmallows!? Where'd you get that.- DULL
Well, that's what SECOND has been saying, in essence, even if not using that phrase.

Just go check out his posts. He says it, over and over: Americans are stupid. And you're American, right?

I just decided to stop defending "Americans" from SECOND's amply-displayed disgust!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SIGNYM

Saturday, November 4, 2017 12:13 AM (P)

An interesting interview about the swamp, economics and other issues

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THGRRI

Saturday, November 4, 2017 12:16 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

And interesting interview about the swamp, economics and other issues

Not if you posted it comrade. Try cleaning up your corrupt Russia. It needs draining so much more. Stop criticizing America and Americans. We'll police our own if you don't mind.

SIGNYM

Saturday, November 4, 2017 1:25 AM (P)

Quote:
And interesting interview about the swamp, economics and other issues- SIGNY

Not if you posted it comrade. Try cleaning up your corrupt Russia. It needs draining so much more. Stop criticizing America and Americans. We'll police our own if you don't mind. - THUGR

Ha ha. You represent everything that SECOND criticizes about Americans: willfully ignorant, intellectually flabby, and completely propagandized. You refuse to recognize corruption when it stares you in the face, so what makes me think you're capable of "cleaning it up" anywhere?

Why don't you clean up your own morals first? Because as far as I can tell you're pretty damn corrupt yourself.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THGRRI

Saturday, November 4, 2017 1:39 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
And interesting interview about the swamp, economics and other issues- SIGNY

Not if you posted it comrade. Try cleaning up your corrupt Russia. It needs draining so much more. Stop criticizing America and Americans. We'll police our own if you don't mind. - THUGR
Ha ha. You represent everything that SECOND criticizes about Americans: willfully ignorant, intellectually flabby, and completely propagandized. You refuse to recognize corruption when it stares you in the face, so what makes me think you're capable of "cleaning it up" anywhere?

Why don't you clean up your own morals first? Because as far as I can tell you're pretty damn corrupt yourself.

A sip-up comrade. Over the years you've had many. Nothing in your post suggests you are American. Only that you hate Americans and are not one.

As for corruption, Russia is so corrupt it functions more like the mob than a country. So don't make me laugh so hard I piss myself by comparing us in any way with you.

SIGNYM

Saturday, November 4, 2017 2:08 AM (P)

Once again, THUGR fails reading comprehension. I didn't say that I "hate" Americans, I said that SECOND did. Just re-read SECOND's posts: Disdain for "Americans" drips from many of them, along with its corollary - disdain for the results of a democratic process.

And I don't "hate" Americans in general. OTOH, I find YOU, personally and specifically, disgusting.

And stupid. Really, really stupid, Willfully so. Anyone who can imagine that I'm a "Russian troll" when I've been posting here since 2002 ... well, that certainly speaks to why you've been so propagandized. When does common sense ever kick in for you? Never?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THGRRI

Saturday, November 4, 2017 2:15 AM (P)

Now you're just a bore. It's your actions that count. And they scream Russian troll.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Once again, THUGR fails reading comprehension. I didn't say that I "hate" Americans, I said that SECOND did. Just re-read SECOND's posts: Disdain for "Americans" drips from many of them, along with its corollary - disdain for the results of a democratic process.

And I don't "hate" Americans in general. OTOH, I find YOU, personally and specifically, disgusting.

And stupid. Really, really stupid, Willfully so. Anyone who can imagine that I'm a "Russian troll" when I've been posting here since 2002 ... well, that certainly speaks to why you've been so propagandized. When does common sense ever kick in for you? Never?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SIGNYM

Saturday, November 4, 2017 5:10 AM (P)

Quote:
Now you're just a bore. It's your actions that count.

Oh, you mean excluding my ACTIONS here in 2002? 2003? 2004? 2005? No explanation for those?

That's your problem .... you're way too selective in the information that you absorb. You ignore everything that argues against your POV, even if it's irrefutable. Consequently, you'll never learn. Like I said: willfully ignorant.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THGRRI

Saturday, November 4, 2017 6:08 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Now you're just a bore. It's your actions that count.
Oh, you mean excluding my ACTIONS here in 2002? 2003? 2004? 2005? No explanation for those?

That's your problem .... you're way too selective in the information that you absorb. You ignore everything that argues against your POV, even if it's irrefutable. Consequently, you'll never learn. Like I said: willfully ignorant.

Oh I don't know. Perhaps some of what I post below had something to do with your change in attitude and led to your long anti American rant here. Your rhetoric does match Putin's ( exactly ) and has since I've been here. I'm betting it only took the first possible reason I've listed.

The expansion of NATO to Russia’s borders in 2004;

The 2006 Russian decision to renegotiate terms of the Sakhaklin II energy deals

with U.S. multinational corporations;

Russia’s 2006 registration requirements for Western nongovernmental organizations;

Russia’s 2007 “moratorium” on its compliance with the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty;

Stalemated negotiations over Russian membership in the World Trade Organization;

Russia’s weakening of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) election-monitoring process;

Vladimir Putin’s 2007 Munich speech declaring a second “Cold War” with the United States;

A deteriorating personal relationship between U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov3

U.S. support for Kosovo’s 2008 unilateral declaration of independence;

Stalemated negotiations over the successor to the START II treaty, which was

scheduled to expire in December 2009; and

The 2008 U.S. decision to place interceptor missiles in the Czech Republic and
Poland.

SIGNYM

Saturday, November 4, 2017 8:15 AM (P)

Quote:
Oh I don't know. Perhaps some of what I post below had something to do with your change in attitude and led to your long anti American rant here. Your rhetoric does match Putin's ( exactly ) and has since I've been here. I'm betting it only took the first possible reason I've listed.

Maybe you should go back and actually READ some of my posts from 2002 before you decide whether or not my attitude has actually "changed". Because, really HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?

Oh, that's right- you don't.

In fact, you don't know much of anything about anything, and especially not about me.

But that's never stopped you before, has it?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, November 4, 2017 1:32 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
And STILL no evidence.

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

Looks like there went another forum page of No Evidence.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, November 4, 2017 1:46 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Mental marshmallows!? Where'd you get that.- DULL
Well, that's what SECOND has been saying, in essence, even if not using that phrase.

Just go check out his posts. He says it, over and over: Americans are stupid. And you're American, right?

I just decided to stop defending "Americans" from SECOND's amply-displayed disgust!

Trump's approval rating hovers around 35%. That doesn't mean 35% are stupid; it could be less. But a nation really will have problems that last far beyond Trump's lifetime when that many people approve of him.

So, Trump's Approval rating is higher than Bush43 as he completed his maximum Constitutionally allowable years of service as POTUS. And still higher than Hilliary's?
What's your point? You had an unfathomably bad candidate?

THGRRI

Saturday, November 4, 2017 8:28 PM (P)

Trump predicting he was going to drain the swamp should have been placed in the predications thread. Even though he was unaware at the time he was predicting his own demise.

SHINYGOODGUY

Monday, November 6, 2017 1:05 PM (P)

Allow me to reclaim my thread topic: Draining the Swamp and creating a New Fucking Swamp.

It doesn't surprise me that we have a new charter member, or better said, the discovery of another Trumpster, fat rich bastard looking to control the world through Russian connections:

Wilbur Ross and the Stolen "Paradise Papers" from Appleby in Bermuda, as gathered by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, that shows hundreds of private investors, including Ross, with hidden funds overseas.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/%e2%80%98paradise-papers%e2%80%99
-us-commerce-secretary-wilbur-ross-hid-russian-interest/vi-AAutmd2

Ross testified that he had divested himself of all foreign companies that could compromise his position as Commerce Secretary before the House Judiciary Committee.
Of course, he wasn't totally forthcoming. In other words, he lied.

SGG

SECOND

Monday, November 6, 2017 7:39 PM (P)

This is how The Swamp works.

Paul Ryan’s spokesperson @AshLeeStrong tweeted:

I don't envy the partisans tasked with messaging against giving middle income families (family of four making $59K) $1,182 back.
12:24 PM - Nov 2, 2017

Unfortunately for the American middle class, Ryan is lying. (It is not Ryan alone. Trump tells the same lie.) The hypothetical family his top spokesperson AshLee Strong described would get a tax cut of almost $1,200 — for one year. It gets smaller in year two, smaller still in year three, smaller still in year four, and smaller still in year five. It nearly vanishes in the sixth year of the Ryan tax plan, and in years seven, eight, nine, and 10 the family would be paying higher taxes than under current law. That tax hike is not only permanent, it actually grows over time because of a change to the inflation indexing of tax brackets.

On average, over the entire 10-year scoring window, the family would get a total tax cut of $3,550. Yet over the same time period, the national debt would grow by $4,644 per person — or about $18,500 for a family of four.

There’s nothing wrong with running a budget deficit if you’re accomplishing something worthwhile. But to go $18,500 in debt in order to secure a $3,550 tax cut is preposterous.

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/6/16606812/republican-tax-plan
-corporate-cut

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

THGRRI

Monday, November 6, 2017 11:14 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Allow me to reclaim my thread topic: Draining the Swamp and creating a New Fucking Swamp.

It doesn't surprise me that we have a new charter member, or better said, the discovery of another Trumpster, fat rich bastard looking to control the world through Russian connections:

Wilbur Ross and the Stolen "Paradise Papers" from Appleby in Bermuda, as gathered by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, that shows hundreds of private investors, including Ross, with hidden funds overseas.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/%e2%80%98paradise-papers%e2%80%99
-us-commerce-secretary-wilbur-ross-hid-russian-interest/vi-AAutmd2

Ross testified that he had divested himself of all foreign companies that could compromise his position as Commerce Secretary before the House Judiciary Committee.
Of course, he wasn't totally forthcoming. In other words, he lied.

SGG

It's just more evidence of what we suspected SGG. The Russians are here.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, November 7, 2017 2:45 AM (P)

Paradise Papers are leaked documents from one of those international "wealth management" law firms that donated so heavily to Hillary. Firms very much like Mossack Fonseca (Panama Papers) detailing how the wealthy elite hide their wealth and evade taxes.

Quote:
Sunday's revelations form only a small part of a week of disclosures that will expose the tax and financial affairs of some of the hundreds of people and companies named in the data, some with strong UK connections.

Many of the stories focus on how politicians, multinationals, celebrities and high-net-worth individuals use complex structures of trusts, foundations and shell companies to protect their cash from tax officials or hide their dealings behind a veil of secrecy.

The BBC, from which this was quoted, is naturally more focused on wealth British individuals and especially whether The Queen was involved. (yes but not much $$ was invested abroad, only about $10 million USD.)

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THGRRI

Tuesday, November 7, 2017 4:49 AM (P)

First, I'm not concerned they donated to Hillarys' campaign. Second, lets see a quote by you regarding that. Not because I care they donated to her campaign, but to see if you made that up. Until I see the quote I am going to assume you did.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Paradise Papers are leaked documents from one of those international "wealth management" law firms that donated so heavily to Hillary. Firms very much like Mossack Fonseca (Panama Papers) detailing how the wealthy elite hide their wealth and evade taxes.

Quote:
Sunday's revelations form only a small part of a week of disclosures that will expose the tax and financial affairs of some of the hundreds of people and companies named in the data, some with strong UK connections.

Many of the stories focus on how politicians, multinationals, celebrities and high-net-worth individuals use complex structures of trusts, foundations and shell companies to protect their cash from tax officials or hide their dealings behind a veil of secrecy.
The BBC, from which this was quoted, is naturally more focused on wealth British individuals and especially whether The Queen was involved. (yes but not much $$ was invested abroad, only about $10 million USD.)

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SHINYGOODGUY

Tuesday, November 7, 2017 11:47 AM (P)

Yes, that's true, the Queen did invest overseas and had the Appleby Group "hide" those investments, but that's just another misdirect, although true I was not referring my comment to the Queen's holdings, but rather to Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross's holdings which are linked to Putin's son-in-law's ownership in a shipping company.

One which Ross failed to disclose to the Senate Committee reviewing his confirmation as Commerce Secretary. He was supposed to dissolve his holdings in foreign companies, especially since he sought confirmation to the post, and one that he must do in order to comply with federal law. Just as the president was supposed to do. That is a problem because he could influence trade, thereby influencing markets and those who would make money, etc. and so on.

(actually the word is divest, not dissolve).

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Paradise Papers are leaked documents from one of those international "wealth management" law firms that donated so heavily to Hillary. Firms very much like Mossack Fonseca (Panama Papers) detailing how the wealthy elite hide their wealth and evade taxes.

Quote:
Sunday's revelations form only a small part of a week of disclosures that will expose the tax and financial affairs of some of the hundreds of people and companies named in the data, some with strong UK connections.

Many of the stories focus on how politicians, multinationals, celebrities and high-net-worth individuals use complex structures of trusts, foundations and shell companies to protect their cash from tax officials or hide their dealings behind a veil of secrecy.
The BBC, from which this was quoted, is naturally more focused on wealth British individuals and especially whether The Queen was involved. (yes but not much $$ was invested abroad, only about $10 million USD.)

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SHINYGOODGUY

Tuesday, November 7, 2017 11:59 AM (P)

Funny thing is that we keep hearing how there's nothing there. Reminds me of a line in a Shakespeare play, Hamlet, it goes something like this:

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

You know something is up when someone offers up an excuse way too much; it reeks of cover up and insincerity. There are a few people that I've met that exhibit those exact qualities, so on point that I just nod my head, but deep down in my gut - I know, it's all bullshit. And for this Russia denial and Fake News excuse from the White House.......

"Methinks..."

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Allow me to reclaim my thread topic: Draining the Swamp and creating a New Fucking Swamp.

It doesn't surprise me that we have a new charter member, or better said, the discovery of another Trumpster, fat rich bastard looking to control the world through Russian connections:

Wilbur Ross and the Stolen "Paradise Papers" from Appleby in Bermuda, as gathered by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, that shows hundreds of private investors, including Ross, with hidden funds overseas.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/%e2%80%98paradise-papers%e2%80%99
-us-commerce-secretary-wilbur-ross-hid-russian-interest/vi-AAutmd2

Ross testified that he had divested himself of all foreign companies that could compromise his position as Commerce Secretary before the House Judiciary Committee.
Of course, he wasn't totally forthcoming. In other words, he lied.

SGG

It's just more evidence of what we suspected SGG. The Russians are here.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, November 7, 2017 1:48 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
So, let me get this straight.....you mean to say that Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Oh goody gum drops! Golly gee Batman, they are good guys after all.

I'm sorry I ever doubted Comrade Putin.- DULL
Do you really... REALLY ... think this is the problem we have with Russia - that they're jealous of our freedoms?

That's a serious question, by the way.

Are you asking if the average workaday Russian is envious of our freedoms, liberty - or if Putin wishes his subjects had our freedoms, Liberty?

THGRRI

Wednesday, November 8, 2017 12:05 AM (P)

Paradise Papers. Not all the transactions are illegal. Many are money laundering but many are not. It's a great tool for prosecutors if they are looking into someone.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, November 8, 2017 12:16 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Funny thing is that we keep hearing how there's nothing there. Reminds me of a line in a Shakespeare play, Hamlet, it goes something like this:

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

You know something is up when someone offers up an excuse way too much; it reeks of cover up and insincerity. There are a few people that I've met that exhibit those exact qualities, so on point that I just nod my head, but deep down in my gut - I know, it's all bullshit. And for this Russia denial and Fake News excuse from the White House.......

"Methinks..."

It could all be true.

If that's the case, it's doubly a shame the way the MSM has been going about it's business since Trump was elected.

At the very least, most americans are just desensitized to it all by now. That tends to happen when you claim the sky is falling every single day.

Didn't these overpaid shills have parents that read Chicken Little or The Boy Who Cried Wolf to them when they were kids?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Wednesday, November 8, 2017 12:19 AM (P)

Quote:
So, let me get this straight.....you mean to say that Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Oh goody gum drops! Golly gee Batman, they are good guys after all. I'm sorry I ever doubted Comrade Putin.- DULL

Do you really... REALLY ... think this is the problem we have with Russia - that they're jealous of our freedoms?
That's a serious question, by the way.- SIGNY

Are you asking if the average workaday Russian is envious of a ur freedoms,xliberty - or if Putin wishes his subjects had our freedoms, Liberty? - JSF

I dunno, ask SHINY. He's the one who said ...

Quote:
Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

"Russia" is a broad term. I don't know what SHINY meant, and clarification would sure be helpful!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THGRRI

Wednesday, November 8, 2017 1:57 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
And STILL no evidence.

Moreover, despite the president’s disinformation campaign — aided by Fox News, which has become largely indistinguishable from state TV (even removing an impeachment ad that upset its viewers) — the public has become increasingly concerned about the president’s conduct. “More Americans than ever before express concern about contacts between suspected Russian operatives and Trump’s presidential campaign. Forty-four percent say they are ‘very concerned’ about those reports, up from just 27% saying so in July … Almost six in 10, 59%, say they think Trump himself knew last year that anyone associated with his campaign had contact with suspected Russian operatives, while only 35% think the then-GOP nominee did not know about those contacts.” And the argument that this is all a hoax or witch hunt has fallen on deaf ears. (“About two-thirds (64%) now say the investigation into Russian efforts to influence the US presidential election in 2016 is a serious matter that should be fully investigated, while just 32% see it as an effort to discredit Trump’s presidency. That figure is down from 38% saying so in August.”) In the public’s eye, it is not special counsel Robert S. Mueller III who is mishandling matters, but Trump. “Just 34% approve of the way Trump is handling that investigation, 54% disapprove, though that represents an improvement since August, when 59% disapproved.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/11/07/the-russ
ia-issue-does-matter-to-voters/?utm_term=.e3ed998e050f

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, November 8, 2017 4:05 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

Moreover, despite the president’s disinformation campaign — aided by Fox News, which has become largely indistinguishable from state TV (even removing an impeachment ad that upset its viewers) — the public has become increasingly concerned about the president’s conduct. “More Americans than ever before express concern about contacts between suspected Russian operatives and Trump’s presidential campaign. Forty-four percent say they are ‘very concerned’ about those reports, up from just 27% saying so in July … Almost six in 10, 59%, say they think Trump himself knew last year that anyone associated with his campaign had contact with suspected Russian operatives, while only 35% think the then-GOP nominee did not know about those contacts.” And the argument that this is all a hoax or witch hunt has fallen on deaf ears. (“About two-thirds (64%) now say the investigation into Russian efforts to influence the US presidential election in 2016 is a serious matter that should be fully investigated, while just 32% see it as an effort to discredit Trump’s presidency. That figure is down from 38% saying so in August.”) In the public’s eye, it is not special counsel Robert S. Mueller III who is mishandling matters, but Trump. “Just 34% approve of the way Trump is handling that investigation, 54% disapprove, though that represents an improvement since August, when 59% disapproved.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/11/07/the-russ
ia-issue-does-matter-to-voters/?utm_term=.e3ed998e050f

Oh goodie. More polls.

The CNN Poll in question...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/politics/cnn-poll-trump-approval-russia-
concerns/index.html

Quote:
The CNN Poll was conducted by SSRS by telephone November 2 to November 5 among a random national sample of 1,021 adults.

No word at all about what political affiliation these 1,021 out of 250 million or so "random" adults are.

But hey... It's CNN. They've proven that they're above intentional statistical manipulation.

Oh.... wait.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:29 AM (P)

So who will celebrate on Wednesday the 1 year Anniversary of Trump's selection? Or, perhaps, America's escape from President Hilliary.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:33 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
So, let me get this straight.....you mean to say that Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Oh goody gum drops! Golly gee Batman, they are good guys after all. I'm sorry I ever doubted Comrade Putin.- DULL

Do you really... REALLY ... think this is the problem we have with Russia - that they're jealous of our freedoms?
That's a serious question, by the way.- SIGNY

Are you asking if the average workaday Russian is envious of a ur freedoms,xliberty - or if Putin wishes his subjects had our freedoms, Liberty? - JSF

I dunno, ask SHINY. He's the one who said ...
Quote:
Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
"Russia" is a broad term. I don't know what SHINY meant, and clarification would sure be helpful!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You posed the "serious question" so you are the sole arbiter of what you meant by your statement. Do you need somebody else to tell you what you mean when you post things?

SHINYGOODGUY

Wednesday, November 8, 2017 12:23 PM (P)

Well, I dunno.....how many times must the president say....."I'm not being investigated."

Did the MSM make him say that?

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Funny thing is that we keep hearing how there's nothing there. Reminds me of a line in a Shakespeare play, Hamlet, it goes something like this:

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

You know something is up when someone offers up an excuse way too much; it reeks of cover up and insincerity. There are a few people that I've met that exhibit those exact qualities, so on point that I just nod my head, but deep down in my gut - I know, it's all bullshit. And for this Russia denial and Fake News excuse from the White House.......

"Methinks..."

It could all be true.

If that's the case, it's doubly a shame the way the MSM has been going about it's business since Trump was elected.

At the very least, most americans are just desensitized to it all by now. That tends to happen when you claim the sky is falling every single day.

Didn't these overpaid shills have parents that read Chicken Little or The Boy Who Cried Wolf to them when they were kids?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Wednesday, November 8, 2017 12:28 PM (P)

"It's just more evidence of what we suspected SGG. The Russians are here. "

logic fail - spectacularly, hilariously, in a noteworthy way

You're like Wishi. Every time you post your pompous, self-important judgments - that are 180 off from reality - you get funnier and funnier.

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

SHINYGOODGUY

Wednesday, November 8, 2017 1:05 PM (P)

I thought my post was pretty self-explanatory, but I'll humor Sigs:

Far as I'm concerned the good people of Russia and the government are two separate entities. If I remember correctly, blue jeans (an American staple) there are over $200 a pop. But I digress. I don't think it's so much jealously, that's an ugly word; it's more like emulate, look up to even. Fashion is just one area.

But Putin has a deep-seated hatred for things American, mainly because he wants to be No. 1. He wants Russia to be the All-Powerful nation that rules the roost. He wants to be the "Leader of the Free World"; only thing is the world is not so "free" as people might think (poor fools, at least this is how some think).
There's nothing wrong with wanting to be number one, it's how you go about it.
Both countries have "done things" - things that have crushed some folk in order
to shove aside others to place ourselves in the front of the line.

Putin is doing his damnedest to "shove" his way on through to the front of the line. "We" are in his way is all. So I wouldn't use "jealous" per se. Of course, you would Sigs. But maybe a teensy bit, way down deep....yes.

"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" The Joker 1989. He was referring to Batman's gadgets. And the infamous, "This town needs an enema." Referring to Batman getting all his "press" or media attention, instead of him (The JOKER). That's Putin, his ego is as big as the Joker's in the movie. He thought of himself as a super intellect, which he was, but the other guy is getting all the attention.
Putin wants that recognition as the best leader of the world, because he feels he's better than. You don't think that there's a tiny bit of jealousy driving that superego? Well, anything is possible, but you can't rule it out completely either.

Wanting to improve your country is never a bad thing, sure. But stomping on another's dream in the process....well, that's not exactly kosher is it? So basically Putin is ruling with an iron fist, and who among us live free? Really?

Of course, that's just one man's observation.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
So, let me get this straight.....you mean to say that Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Oh goody gum drops! Golly gee Batman, they are good guys after all. I'm sorry I ever doubted Comrade Putin.- DULL

Do you really... REALLY ... think this is the problem we have with Russia - that they're jealous of our freedoms?
That's a serious question, by the way.- SIGNY

Are you asking if the average workaday Russian is envious of a ur freedoms,xliberty - or if Putin wishes his subjects had our freedoms, Liberty? - JSF

I dunno, ask SHINY. He's the one who said ...
Quote:
Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
"Russia" is a broad term. I don't know what SHINY meant, and clarification would sure be helpful!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
You posed the "serious question" so you are the sole arbiter of what you meant by your statement. Do you need somebody else to tell you what you mean when you post things?

SECOND

Wednesday, November 8, 2017 6:02 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"It's just more evidence of what we suspected SGG. The Russians are here. "

logic fail - spectacularly, hilariously, in a noteworthy way

You're like Wishi. Every time you post your pompous, self-important judgments - that are 180 off from reality - you get funnier and funnier.

While you're squabbling about petty differences in style, my 1 percenters are stealing trillions. Congratulations for distracting the lower 99%! I can't thank you enough for your unpaid service, so I won't thank you at all.

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/11/penn-wharton-republican-tax-pla
n-would-do-almost-nothing-to-boost-gdp/
The Penn Wharton Business Model has analyzed the Republican Tax plan and reports back that it will have the following effect on GDP:

The 2027 GDP would be .58 percent higher than it would be under current law. That’s a difference of .05 percent per year.

After 2027, thanks to the $5 trillion in extra debt the tax cut generates, the economy would lose even this tiny amount of extra growth and maybe even grow slower than it would under current law. Between 2017 and 2040, the total net effect of the Republican plan is basically zero.

But a bunch of rich people would be a lot richer. Mission Accomplished, 1kiki! Say hello to Putin for me. Putin certainly has the visible trappings of a 1 percenter, Russian branch. http://time.com/money/4641093/vladimir-putin-net-worth/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, November 8, 2017 7:14 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Well, I dunno.....how many times must the president say....."I'm not being investigated."

Did the MSM make him say that?

In a word, yes.

What should he say or do that would appease you?

I'll list a few things he could say or do that I guaranty would not appease you.

1. Ignore the question whenever it is asked.
2. Say "No Comment" whenever it is asked.
3. Ban certain news outlets who are going to ask the question from events.
4. Completely isolate himself from the media.

This is the problem with a MSM that is so out of control and hyper focused on their hate for Trump and the Republican Party in general. (And also the problem with 24 hour news networks and news on the internet in general)

They never STFU about it.

I've said it before... please investigate. Not just trump and not just Republicans, but the whole collective cesspool. This government needs an enima. Flush em all out.

But do some real Goddamned investigative journalism first and quit with all the bullshit speculation and for fucks sake stop quoting random sources.

Every. Fucking. Story.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

THGRRI

Wednesday, November 8, 2017 11:58 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"It's just more evidence of what we suspected SGG. The Russians are here. "

logic fail - spectacularly, hilariously, in a noteworthy way

You're like Wishi. Every time you post your pompous, self-important judgments - that are 180 off from reality - you get funnier and funnier.
While you're squabbling about petty differences in style, my 1 percenters are stealing trillions. Congratulations for distracting the lower 99%! I can't thank you enough for your unpaid service, so I won't thank you at all.

At some point in time one would expect kiki and Jack to name two, would stop eliciting your ire. Sadly, it's what trolls live for. Still, I love the way their logic is reduced to ashes by you.

SIGNYM

Thursday, November 9, 2017 12:19 AM (P)

Quote:
While you're squabbling about petty differences in ~~style~~ (circle all that apply) political parties, gender, race, age, other my 1 percenters are stealing trillions- SECOND

The one I find who MOST squabbles about irrelevant stuff is you, hon.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THGRRI

Thursday, November 9, 2017 12:43 AM (P)

Trump voters disappointed by his presidency threaten the GOP

Anthony Miles figured that Donald Trump, rich as he was, could not be bought off. Now he regrets voting for him.

"He said he was going to drain the swamp," said Miles, 62, a computer programmer who lives in Middletown, Conn. "All he's done is restocked it."
Miles was especially appalled by President Trump's appointment, since withdrawn, of a drug czar who took pharmaceutical donations as a congressman and wrote a law that thwarted federal power to punish companies that fuel opioid abuse.
A year after Trump stunned the world by defeating Hillary Clinton in one of the most consequential elections of modern times, the president is breaking records for unpopularity. Since World War II, no other president has scored Gallup approval ratings as low as Trump's during his first year in office. He bottomed out last week at 33%.

That's largely because of Americans who voted for Trump but disapprove of the way he has conducted himself in office.
Many of them, like Miles, are independents. Some were never Trump fans, but cast ballots for him out of loathing for Clinton. They were essential to his electoral college victory, securing his narrow wins in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.
They will also be crucial to Republicans' fight to keep control of Congress next year — and to Trump's prospects for reelection in 2020.

http://beta.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-election-voters-20171
108-story.html

JAYNEZTOWN

Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:00 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
And STILL no evidence.

media moving very fast now

LAPD Confirms It Is Investigating Hollywood Pedophilia Ring
https://www.therebel.media/lapd_confirms_they_are_investigating_hollyw
ood_pedophilia_ring

Asia Argento?
Ehud Barak referred Weinstein to ex-Mossad agents he hired to quash allegations
https://twitter.com/AsiaArgento/status/928313466766708736

THGRRI

Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:13 AM (P)

It's a given that when SIG is very upset, she brings out the worst of the worst of her sockpuppets; JAYNEZTOWN. Excuse me while I do a troll patrol.

SIG

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, November 9, 2017 2:26 AM (P)

Yep...

I'm the one who has problems.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SHINYGOODGUY

Thursday, November 9, 2017 4:04 PM (P)

Let me see if I can unpack your response:

First off; the president could say something like (since he claims there is no collusion or any wrongdoing on his part or that of his administration) this:

"I'm glad you asked that question. I, for one, have every confidence that Mr. Mueller, after he's done with his investigation will be satisfied that my administration was also a victim of the Russian hacking reported on by the intelligence community. I trust that his thoroughness and dedication will be rewarded greatly and will vindicate my administration of any involvement. I will continue to support the DOJ's excellent choice of Mr. Mueller, a true professional,
as Special Counsel and trust that the media will follow the developments arising from his probe into the above named hacking of our democratic process."

Now that kills a lot of birds with one stone. Plus it will pour water on the smoldering pile of so-called "Fake News." In one fell swoop he not only puts to rest the speculation that he or his administration have anything to do with the so-called Russian hack of our democratic process, because, as he has voiced from day one of this story, he and his administration are innocent of any wrongdoing.

He also, with that statement, backs the American Intelligence community and the Special Prosecutor, while making the MSM think twice about lying in their coverage.
Perhaps even forcing them to cover other stories, thereby leaving President Trump and his totally innocent cabinet alone. Not only that, he would make them out as fools on a fool's errand. In other words, make them look bad for having pursued a,
how do you guys call it?, a "nothing burger."

But nooooooooooooooooo, Trump goes and listens to his son-in-law (who never ever had any kind of experience working in government in any capacity) and fires FBI Director Comey......that started the ball rolling. Did the MSM twist Donny's arm to fire Comey?

The question that I ask has nothing to do with appeasing me...for what? I question Donny's version of the truth because I smell a rat. If he is innocent as he says, and had nothing to do with anything Russian, then why fight the investigation?

If the police accused me of committing a murder and I was innocent; I would go to them and give my statement, alibi, and whatever they wanted to clear my name. Doesn't that make sense?

But if I were guilty, I wouldn't go around calling the cops a bunch of losers and suckers who were trying to frame me for the murder. That would piss them off and make them want to catch me and lock me up even more, now wouldn't it. Does that make sense?

So firing Comey was not smart, it just raised suspicion and gave the FBI and DOJ more of a reason to look into the matter. Enter Mueller, who everyone respects as an honorable man. And you notice that he hasn't gotten into a twitter war, or anything for that matter, with the aforementioned Donny Baby. Funny thing integrity, for some it's just a word.

But my criticism of Trump is not meant as a reason for appeasement, not for me.
He could go and grab anybody's pussy, which I'm sure he's done, that really doesn't matter to me one way or another. I'm tired of hearing about it from all news outlets, including Fox, because it's all bullshit. I don't give a shit about him, but I do care about this country because I live here. If this motherfucker has to be showing his ass, then, as a voter, I have every fucking right to complain, criticize and ask for his head on a platter - that's how democracy works. You vote, you have rights; you don't vote - STFU! Plain and simple.

And since I voted, I'm exercising my right to protest and complain. See, simple. You have that right as well, as long as you voted you can pursue your happiness.
My happiness is to call this motherfucker a pig, SOB, rich fuck who doesn't have a clue. That's what appeases me! See, simple.

Now, as to your list:

1. Ignore the questio

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, November 9, 2017 8:56 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
They all do it. Fuck! change the channel or turn it off.

We seem to be in agreement on a lot of things.

I'd never try to convince you that Trump was an innocent angel. I'm sure he isn't. None of us are, let alone anybody in power on any level. My issue comes with how the media has come at him relentlessly since day one. You agree on that and even made a joke about if Trump takes a shit that the MSM will dissect it and tell us what he ate last night.

I don't know why Trump would fire Comey. I can't even speculate on it. That's another problem with the media today. That's all they do is speculate. There is no investigative journalism anymore. I'm sure Trump knew how guilty doing so would make him look in the eyes of people who already hated him. (And yes, hate is not used wrong here. It is genuine hate that many people in this country have for our President).

He's a lot of things, but I don't think he's a stupid man. It's possible that he has nothing to worry about in the end and wasn't worried about the public perception of firing Comey. If anything, Comey has shown himself to be pretty incompetent and he wasn't very well respected by people on either side for his constant flip-flopping on issues. If Comey had cleared his name, people who hate Trump wouldn't have believed him. Do you think it will be easy for those same people to do that if Mueller clears his name?

Quote:
But if I were guilty, I wouldn't go around calling the cops a bunch of losers and suckers who were trying to frame me for the murder. That would piss them off and make them want to catch me and lock me up even more, now wouldn't it. Does that make sense?

Well that's just it. I wouldn't do it either. It doesn't make sense.

Unless something I said many months ago is true and that Trump is doing this all to end up catching some high ranking government officials and a large portion of the MSM in a huge GOTCHA moment when it turns out he isn't guilty.

Anyway... enough speculation on my part. I don't want to add to that shit-show.

I think that you think I watch Fox News. I don't. I can't stomach their bullshit anymore than I can MSNBC or CNN. I immediately tune out whenever anybody puts their bias in their "reporting" and this is something that all the cable "news" networks do constantly.

None of them give a shit about the truth. It's all about ratings.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

THGRRI

Saturday, November 11, 2017 12:35 AM (P)

Trump judge nominee, 36, who has never tried a case, wins approval of Senate panel

Brett J. Talley, President Trump’s nominee to be a federal judge in Alabama, has never tried a case, was unanimously rated “not qualified” by the American Bar Assn.’s judicial rating committee, has practiced law for only three years and, as a blogger last year, displayed a degree of partisanship unusual for a judicial nominee, denouncing “Hillary Rotten Clinton” and pledging support for the National Rifle Assn.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-judge-20171110-story.h
tml

Is this what Trump means by drain the swamp. This judge is clueless about what this country is about and the rule of law.

Bravo SIG, you sure can pickem. Stooge, a person who serves merely to support or assist others. You SIG are a stooge, which is only one of the many other unpleasant things that you are, comrade.

1KIKI

Saturday, November 11, 2017 3:59 AM (P)

were your propaganda bosses unhappy with you slacking off, comrade troll ?

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

SHINYGOODGUY

Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:45 AM (P)

Another brilliant move on the part of the Fake President.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Trump judge nominee, 36, who has never tried a case, wins approval of Senate panel

Brett J. Talley, President Trump’s nominee to be a federal judge in Alabama, has never tried a case, was unanimously rated “not qualified” by the American Bar Assn.’s judicial rating committee, has practiced law for only three years and, as a blogger last year, displayed a degree of partisanship unusual for a judicial nominee, denouncing “Hillary Rotten Clinton” and pledging support for the National Rifle Assn.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-judge-20171110-story.h
tml

Is this what Trump means by drain the swamp. This judge is clueless about what this country is about and the rule of law.

Bravo SIG, you sure can pickem. Stooge, a person who serves merely to support or assist others. You SIG are a stooge, which is only one of the many other unpleasant things that you are, comrade.

SHINYGOODGUY

Sunday, November 12, 2017 12:52 PM (P)

First off, we do agree on some things. But not about "our" president. No, he's your president, not mine. Not only did I not vote for him, but I do HATE him. I say that openly and freely. This is my decision entirely, no one is making me say that (I say that just in case).

In fact, I hope he dies; that's how much I hate him, that he contracts cancer, shrivels up and dies. In case the FBI, CIA or NSA is reading this: This is my feeling on it, this is NOT a plot.

My president has been, and always will be Kennedy...JFK to be exact. Obama is a close second. TO BE CLEAR. Okay, got that out of the way.

One of the things that I have learned in my travels, is to criticize print journalism, mass media, and broadcast journalism. There is a difference. And you have correctly pointed that out...

Quote:
There is no investigative journalism anymore.

Well, to a degree. You see I dissect it this way: Print journalism does do investigative reporting; broadcast rarely does (too expensive, and sometimes too controversial). Here's how I see it:

Print journalism investigates, and when the story strikes gold (depending on the broadcast news agenda) they present it in a live interview or a panel discussion.
So, in a way, broadcast news does do investigative journalism with print journalism's help. Case in point, Rachel Maddow's follow up on the Flint Michigan water scandal. That started out as a print journalism investigative report; she picked up the ball and ran with it to expose the corrupt governor of Michigan and the state employees who did their damnedest to cover it up (I still say that the governor should have been locked up).

With the exposure given to this case, the Feds got involved, hence the appropriate people going to jail. Same thing with Bridge-Gate. I give Maddow credit, she did praise the newspaper journalist who dug out the Flint Water scandal. Back to the panel discussion, which is what I guess you have a problem with the "speculation,"
this is where the broadcast and print journalism cross paths. For example, Chris Matthews of Hardball, will often call on both print and broadcast journalists to appear on his show, but he also invites political pundits from differing political stripes to comment on the "breaking" news of the day. Sometimes they speculate, but most times they just offer an opinion based on their expertise, experience and political slant. Some even decline to offer any speculation because there isn't enough evidence or they just don't like it.

I actually have my disagreements with Matthew's questions, slants and comments cause he tends to go with whatever is the prevailing frontrunner of the day. But that's another critique for another day. He does usually invite a politico, a journalist, a republican and a democrat. Sometimes he'll invite an independent.
But I have noticed that the entire night will be devoted to Trump. That's the rating part that you mentioned, yeah, unfortunately broadcast journalism has it's
skeevy moments that they promote and allow to permeate the "news" namely - commercials, ads, selling stuff. That's built into their DNA. With the exception of the MacNeil/Lehrer report on public television.

But, you see, I'm able to discard the obvious sales pitch and retain the news feature of the day. When I watch, I separate out the important news and "opinions" for myself. I glean what I need and critique the pundits for their contributions, but I also follow print news. I know that there exists in this world propaganda, believe me I have studied this. I learned a lot by studying Goebbels and Leni Riefenstahl; they wrote the book on modern day propaganda. Both print and broadcast journalism is a necessary evil in this country, do not underestimate it's importance in the grand scheme of things. That and propaganda must be given it's proper respect if we are to survive as a society.

Having said that; yes, I sometimes loathe watching it (and

SIGNYM

Sunday, November 12, 2017 2:54 PM (P)

Quote:
But, you see, I'm able to discard the obvious sales pitch and retain the news feature of the day. When I watch, I separate out the important news and "opinions" for myself. I glean what I need and critique the pundits for their contributions, but I also follow print news.

Yes, you dutifully consume and digest that which is laid before you. That's more than most, but I think you need to be a lot more "meta" about the news: the 50,000 ft view, not the 50 ft view. The news is shaped more by selection of stories than by story content or spin. Why are certain stories featured? Which stories are NOT being told? The only way to get a sense of "why" the news, not just "what" the news, is to sample the news from everywhere. Then you can see which sources withhold which kinds of stories.

Quote:
I know that there exists in this world propaganda, believe me I have studied this. I learned a lot by studying Goebbels and Leni Riefenstahl; they wrote the book on modern day propaganda.= SHINY

Oh hon, you have no idea what propaganda is. Every storyline is propaganda; they rely on the same memes over and over: The world is filled with bad guys and heroes. The bad guys are (conveniently) our political enemies. We depend on the individual hero. Righteous violence wins the day.

BOOKS have their memes: Girls will find their prince. (There was an interesting book on that Cindrella Ate My Daughter!) Youth and beauty are associated with goodness and purity. The individual hero (again).

And most insidious of all, advertisement. If you think you know propaganda, you should watch this video about the real father of propaganda: Edward Bernays, nephew of Sigmund Freud, and a real sociopath when it came to manipulating "the masses"

You have probably never read a book or watched a show/ movie that crossed up your expectations; they are so inbuilt that they've become almost universal. Here are a few real-life examples of actual stories that crossed up MY expectations about how stories "should" go:

There is a brewing conflict between tow racial groups, each represented by a protagonist. Right about the time that you think violence would break out, both groups get together and negotiate a compromise.

In a post-apocalyptic world, a barely-hanging on settlement is riven by an internal dispute, where a significant minority believes it is necessary to explore upstream to look for other settlements, and the majority believes that any loss of membership would fatally weaken them. The minority sneaks away in the dead of night with supplies and canoes; the remainder manage to survive ... and the escapees are never heard from again, not even referentially in the storyline

A man is falsely accused of a crime, and placed on the prison island of Cuba, where prisoners are drugged into a blissful accepting state ... and used as the source of transplant body parts for wealthy citizens. Our hero survives on (unadulterated) sugar and water, and plans his escape by jumping into the bin of bodies as they're sluiced out to sea; he figures he'd rather take his chances with the sharks. But as his body hits the cold ocean water, the lights and sirens come on, and he's plucked from the ocean by the guards ("What, don't you think we have infrared cameras?") .... only to be rescued by a wealthy socialite that he never even heard of, who took an interest in his case.

It's like our news ... we have inbuilt expectations from years and years of exposure, and we only realize that we have them when they're violated in some way. It's a gift to learn about assumptions and paradigms that underlie response; most people don't have any insight into why they behave the way they do.

Man Against Myth by Burrows Dunham.
Blink by Malcolm Gladwell

---------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Sunday, November 26, 2017 11:18 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You'd have to revamp the tax structure because it's far too easy for corporations and transnational elites to declare their profits in tax havens, or hide their wealth in "instant" subsidiaries and foundations

Here you are proving my point. Tax "Havens" is merely LibtardSpeak for a situation where a LOWER Tax Rate is where any reasonable and rational person would willingly pay their fair share of Taxes, instead of the option of paying obtrusively excessive high confiscatory Tax Rates outside of the "Tax Haven" environment.
So, Lower Tax Rate results in Higher Tax Revenue for the Taxing Authority, and Higher Tax Rate results in Lower Tax Revenue. Or, more precisely, LOSS of Tax Revenue.
Pretty logical.
Quote:
If it were me, I'd simply drop the tax rate but also eliminate specialized deductions, exemptions, expenses, depreciations, subsidies, etc.
Is this another endorsement of Consumption Tax? Reason may be dawning.

Quote:
OH BTW- JSF- that concept that lower rates increvase tax revenues has been disproved over and over and over again. That is a misapplication of a concept called the aptly-named "Laffer Curve". Every tax-cutting Republican President - including Reagan- sang that song, and every one of them was proved wrong, as demonstrated by the history of actual government revenues versus tax rates.

Before you forward an idea like this, it would be useful to look up actual numbers to see if it's been validated by reality.

The Koolaid is strong with this one.
Please provide a valid example of this: identify one time when LOWERING the Federal Tax RATE resulted in LESS Federal Tax Revenues.

I guess "Reaganomics Denier" is a thing now, another version of Libtard Surreality.

THGRRI

Sunday, November 26, 2017 11:26 PM (P)

With Trump it's about stacking the deck against any kink of oversight and accountability. This includes globally. Everything about him screams Putin wannabe.
T

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Another brilliant move on the part of the Fake President.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Trump judge nominee, 36, who has never tried a case, wins approval of Senate panel

Brett J. Talley, President Trump’s nominee to be a federal judge in Alabama, has never tried a case, was unanimously rated “not qualified” by the American Bar Assn.’s judicial rating committee, has practiced law for only three years and, as a blogger last year, displayed a degree of partisanship unusual for a judicial nominee, denouncing “Hillary Rotten Clinton” and pledging support for the National Rifle Assn.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-judge-20171110-story.h
tml

Is this what Trump means by drain the swamp. This judge is clueless about what this country is about and the rule of law.

Bravo SIG, you sure can pickem. Stooge, a person who serves merely to support or assist others. You SIG are a stooge, which is only one of the many other unpleasant things that you are, comrade.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Sunday, November 26, 2017 11:49 PM (P)

SIGNYM

Tuesday, November 28, 2017 6:11 PM (P)

Trump may be all manner of stupid. He may even be a corrupt businessman, but the one thing he isn't is a traitor to the USA, like Hillary is.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THGRRI

Tuesday, November 28, 2017 8:35 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Trump may be all manner of stupid. He may even be a corrupt businessman, but the one thing he isn't is a traitor to the USA, like Hillary is.

And you have evidence of that right? Evidence of Hillary commiting an act of treason. Let's see it.

T

SIGNYM

Tuesday, November 28, 2017 9:26 PM (P)

Quote:
Trump may be all manner of stupid. He may even be a corrupt businessman, but the one thing he isn't is a traitor to the USA, like Hillary is.- SIGNY

And you have evidence of that right? Evidence of Hillary commiting an act of treason. Let's see it.- THUGR

Anyone advocating that America give over its sovereign right of creating and drafting its own laws through the democratic process ... laws regarding the environment, health, wages, finance, immigration, the economy etc ... to foreign powers is a traitor.

I can't think of a clearer description of traitorous behavior than that.

Hillary is a traitor.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THGRRI

Wednesday, November 29, 2017 12:15 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Trump may be all manner of stupid. He may even be a corrupt businessman, but the one thing he isn't is a traitor to the USA, like Hillary is.- SIGNY

And you have evidence of that right? Evidence of Hillary commiting an act of treason. Let's see it.- THUGR

Anyone advocating that America give over its sovereign right of creating and drafting its own laws through the democratic process ... laws regarding the environment, health, wages, finance, immigration, the economy etc ... to foreign powers is a traitor.

I can't think of a clearer description of traitorous behavior than that.

Hillary is a traitor.

There you have it folks. Once again we get to witness sig the hypocrite. Thread after thread we see her post there is no evidence to show Trump or his associates conspired with the Russians. She posts these denials even though aid after aid of Trumps, cabinet member after cabinet, family member after family member and appointee after appointee of his has been caught lying about their Russian connections.

Then she has the tenacity to post this shit as though it is evidence of Hillary's treasonous behavior.

Sig, your as sick as they come. And quite frankly, so are all those who don't call her on it.

T

THGRRI

Wednesday, November 29, 2017 12:15 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Trump may be all manner of stupid. He may even be a corrupt businessman, but the one thing he isn't is a traitor to the USA, like Hillary is.- SIGNY

And you have evidence of that right? Evidence of Hillary commiting an act of treason. Let's see it.- THUGR

Anyone advocating that America give over its sovereign right of creating and drafting its own laws through the democratic process ... laws regarding the environment, health, wages, finance, immigration, the economy etc ... to foreign powers is a traitor.

I can't think of a clearer description of traitorous behavior than that.

Hillary is a traitor.

There you have it folks. Once again we get to witness sig the hypocrite. Thread after thread we see her post there is no evidence to show Trump or his associates conspired with the Russians. She posts these denials even though aid after aid of Trumps, cabinet member after cabinet member, family member after family member and appointee after appointee of his has been caught lying about their Russian connections.

Then she has the tenacity to post this shit as though it is evidence of Hillary's treasonous behavior.

Sig your as sick as they come. And quite frankly, so are all those who don't call her on it. Show me the evidence!!

T

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, November 29, 2017 12:20 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Trump may be all manner of stupid. He may even be a corrupt businessman, but the one thing he isn't is a traitor to the USA, like Hillary is.- SIGNY

And you have evidence of that right? Evidence of Hillary commiting an act of treason. Let's see it.- THUGR

Anyone advocating that America give over its sovereign right of creating and drafting its own laws through the democratic process ... laws regarding the environment, health, wages, finance, immigration, the economy etc ... to foreign powers is a traitor.

I can't think of a clearer description of traitorous behavior than that.

Hillary is a traitor.

There you have it folks. Once again we get to witness sig the hypocrite. Thread after thread we see her post there is no evidence to show Trump or his associates conspired with the Russians. She posts these denials even though aid after aid of Trumps, cabinet member after cabinet member, family member after family member and appointee after appointee of his has been caught lying about their Russian connections.

Then she has the tenacity to post this shit as though it is evidence of Hillary's treasonous behavior.

Sig your as sick as they come. And quite frankly, so are all those who don't call her on it. Show me the evidence!!

T

T must have been especially proud of this post since he posted it twice.

My favorite part of it has to be the last line:

Quote:
Sig your as sick as they come. And quite frankly, so are all those who don't call her on it. Show me the evidence!!

You should all hate them because they're all as sick as they come... because they don't agree with me!

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Wednesday, November 29, 2017 12:58 AM (P)

THUGR, as Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton strongly advocated for the TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership) and TTIP. As candidate, she w/drew her support (probably after seeing how unpopular they were with her base, and how much traction both Sanders and Trump were getting with their opposition)

Quote:
Hillary Clinton’s awkward history on trade policy

https://www.ft.com/content/c2d1c2ca-85e3-11e6-8897-2359a58ac7a5

Whatever the specific environmental/ worker provisions she claimed were lacking in both trade agreements, the REAL for rejecting the trade agreements SHOULD HAVE BEEN the provision which allows corporations to sue governments over regulations which interfere with profits, and to be heard in a private trade tribunals, not in a court of law of the relevant nation. So any city, any state, any nation which seeks (for example) to regulate food safety or pharmaceuticals; or products made with child labor; or high-carbon fuels could be sued for interfering with the corporation's profits, and there is a good chance that the corporation would win.

I know I've posted about this many times before, but what this means is that you can shit-can all of laws and regulations that have been created via the democratic process; and subject them to decisions made by an overseas secret group.

Advocating for that loss of control, IMHO, is treason.

Quote:
“[The] TPP would expand the ‘investor-state’ dispute settlement system that allows foreign firms operating here to drag the U.S. government before extrajudicial tribunals staffed by private corporate lawyers to demand unlimited taxpayer compensation if they think our environmental, health or other laws violate their TPP rights and limit their ‘expected future profits,’” wrote Wallach. “Tribunals have ordered governments to pay $3.6 billion to corporations for toxics, energy, water and other policies under past U.S. agreements. These involved developing nations with few U.S. investors here, so we avoided greater liability. But with 9,000 corporations from TPP nations established here, the TPP would double U.S. exposure to these attacks. That alone would provide 9,000 reasons to oppose TPP.”

https://www.thenation.com/article/tpp-prioritizes-rights-of-corporatio
ns-over-workers-the-environment-and-democracy/

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THGRRI

Wednesday, November 29, 2017 1:13 AM (P)

Hear say, innuendo, based on fake news. Proof sig, the kind you are demanding concerning Trump. What is it you don't understand. From this day going forward I will remind you that what you post lacks evidence. It is is after all, according to you, only fake news clippings.

You're so ignorant, you kiki and Jack have painted yourselfs into a corner. The three of you have labeled the main stream media as fake news. You can't possibly source any of it as factual after that. Morons, one and all.

T

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
THUGR, as Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton strongly advocated for the TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership) and TTIP. As candidate, she w/drew her support (probably after seeing how unpopular they were with her base, and how much traction both Sanders and Trump were getting with their opposition)
Quote:
Hillary Clinton’s awkward history on trade policy

https://www.ft.com/content/c2d1c2ca-85e3-11e6-8897-2359a58ac7a5

Whatever the specific environmental/ worker provisions she claimed were lacking in both trade agreements, the REAL for rejecting the trade agreements SHOULD HAVE BEEN the provision which allows corporations to sue governments over regulations which interfere with profits, and to be heard in a private trade tribunals, not in a court of law of the relevant nation. So any city, any state, any nation which seeks (for example) to regulate food safety or pharmaceuticals; or products made with child labor; or high-carbon fuels could be sued for interfering with the corporation's profits, and there is a good chance that the corporation would win.

I know I've posted about this many times before, but what this means is that you can shit-can all of laws and regulations that have been created via the democratic process; and subject them to decisions made by an overseas secret group.

Advocating for that loss of control, IMHO, is treason.

Quote:
“[The] TPP would expand the ‘investor-state’ dispute settlement system that allows foreign firms operating here to drag the U.S. government before extrajudicial tribunals staffed by private corporate lawyers to demand unlimited taxpayer compensation if they think our environmental, health or other laws violate their TPP rights and limit their ‘expected future profits,’” wrote Wallach. “Tribunals have ordered governments to pay $3.6 billion to corporations for toxics, energy, water and other policies under past U.S. agreements. These involved developing nations with few U.S. investors here, so we avoided greater liability. But with 9,000 corporations from TPP nations established here, the TPP would double U.S. exposure to these attacks. That alone would provide 9,000 reasons to oppose TPP.”

https://www.thenation.com/article/tpp-prioritizes-rights-of-corporatio
ns-over-workers-the-environment-and-democracy/

SIGNYM

Wednesday, November 29, 2017 2:31 AM (P)

Quote:
Hear say, innuendo, based on fake news.

Bullshit.

Hillary has made no secret of her previous support for TPP/ TTIP. It's been publicly stated and documented.

The provisions of TTP/ TTIP which would strip participating nations of their sovereign rights are also well-known, and have been well documented for the public.

Unlike all of your collective hot air, where you accuse Trump of doing "something" against the USA (but you're never very clear about what it is) my objections against Hillary are very specific and very well-documented.

You could argue whether Hillary's policies amounted to "treason" or not, but there is no question what they were. From my POV, I just can't imagine how anyone with their head screwed on straight and who "supposedly" represented the interests of the USA could possibly support such free trade treason.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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