This is Why Trump is a SCUMBAG!

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
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1KIKI

Monday, July 16, 2018 11:15 PM (P)

"33 indictments. Guilty pleas. Sentences. No pretense needed. A supine, pro-Trump, absolutely compliant press that glosses over every outrage.

Keep moving those goalposts, comrade."

And no collusion - or conspiracy if you prefer - with RUSSIA!!! Yes, by all means. Ignore that little failure and keep moving those goalposts.

BTW, as I predicted at the start of all this - there was business corruption (though not apparently Trump's) - but no collusion.

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

1KIKI

Monday, July 16, 2018 11:17 PM (P)

Monday, July 16, 2018 10:01 AM
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62480&mid=1
057215#1057215

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Yanno what I get out of this?

The intelligence community's efforts at a soft coup by making things up like 'golden showers' and leaking select bits to show Trump 'colluded' with Russia - not going as well as hoped. The 'democratic' party hiding behind RUSSIA!!! as an excuse for not coming up with a ggod agenda - not going as well as hoped. The endless anti-Trump propaganda in the media to cost Trump support - not going as well as hoped.

So let's forget all the pretense of legal moves to get rid of Trump.

They were never more than a pretense anyway.

33 indictments. Guilty pleas. Sentences. No pretense needed. A supine, pro-Trump, absolutely compliant press that glosses over every outrage.

Keep moving those goalposts, comrade.

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

JJ

Monday, July 16, 2018 11:28 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Yanno what I get out of this?

The intelligence community's efforts at a soft coup by making things up like 'golden showers' and leaking select bits to show Trump 'colluded' with Russia - not going as well as hoped. The 'democratic' party hiding behind RUSSIA!!! as an excuse for not coming up with a ggod agenda - not going as well as hoped. The endless anti-Trump propaganda in the media to cost Trump support - not going as well as hoped.

So let's forget all the pretense of legal moves to get rid of Trump.

They were never more than a pretense anyway.

33 indictments. Guilty pleas. Sentences. No pretense needed. A supine, pro-Trump, absolutely compliant press that glosses over every outrage.

Keep moving those goalposts, comrade.

Yep, and more indictments to come. Think Americans and Wikipedia.

I'd add that because of trumps and putins press conference the republican party has just been backed into a corner.

T

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 12:30 AM (P)

This Was Among the Most Disgraceful Moments in the Modern History of the American Presidency
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a22164229/donald-trump-vladimir-
putin-press-conference-disgrace/

We have just witnessed one of the most disgraceful moments in the modern history of the United States presidency. Donald Trump, American president, held a joint press conference with Russian President Vladimir Putin and sided, over and over again, with the thuggish authoritarian leader of a geopolitical adversary who engineered an attack on U.S. democracy. He lined up against his own intelligence community, his domestic political opponents, and the free press. It should go down with his performance after the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, when he so infamously suggested there were "very fine people on both sides"—that is, that very fine people march alongside Nazis.

Actually, the American president had an eerily similar moment Monday, when he essentially blamed both sides for the poor relations between the U.S. and Russia. No, like the white supremacists in Charlottesville, it's not Russia's fault for its aggression in Europe and its attack on America. It is, according to the U.S. president, the fault of all of us. This was a continuation of his rhetoric in the lead-up.

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 12:42 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JJ:
Yep, and more indictments to come.

Despite the fact you've been claiming this for over a year, it never seems to get old for you. I'm sure Mueller will indict Trump for conspiracy with the Russians. any. day. now. Please, hold your breathe waiting.

Quote:
Think Americans and Wikipedia.

AHEM. Don't you mean WikiLEAKS?

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 12:49 AM (P)

So, I thought I'd share Clapper's original statement about the alleged hacking - before he saw which way the political wind was blowing and how he could take advantage of it.

Quote:

DNI Clapper's As Delivered Remarks at the 2016 INSA & AFCEA Intelligence & National Security Summit

People all around the world, not just opposing parties, want to know what the candidates are thinking. That's why we've seen attempted cyber intrusions against parties and candidates going back more than one election cycle.

We've certainly seen it this year with the network intrusion against the Democratic National Party. The President said last week, and I quote, "Experts have attributed this to the Russians." So I won't get out ahead of the President on this, particularly while the FBI is still conducting an investigation, but I can reiterate his other point. The Russians hack our systems all the time, not just government, but also corporate and personal systems. And so do the Chinese and others, including non-state actors. The point is, cyber will continue to be a huge problem for the next Presidential administration, as it has been a challenge for this one. "
https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/speeches-interviews/speeches-in
terviews-2016/item/1627-dni-clapper-s-as-delivered-remarks-at-the-2016-insa-afcea-intelligence-national-security-summit

In roughly 16 pages of text - that was it.

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 1:01 AM (P)

Meanwhile

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-nsa-uses-powerful-toolbo
x-in-effort-to-spy-on-global-networks-a-940969.html
Documents Reveal Top NSA Hacking Unit

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/29/der-spiegel-nsa-hacking-
unit-tao
NSA 'hacking unit' infiltrates computers around the world – report

NSA officials responded to the Spiegel report with a statement, which said: "Tailored Access Operations is a unique national asset that is on the front lines of enabling NSA to defend the nation and its allies. [TAO's] work is centred on computer network exploitation in support of foreign intelligence collection."

Der Spiegel has previously reported on documents leaked by the former NSA contractor Edward Snowden. The report on Sunday was partly compiled by Laura Poitras, who collaborated with Snowden and the Guardian on the first publication of revelations about the NSA's collection of the telephone data of thousands of Americans and overseas intelligence targets.

On Friday, the NSA phone data-collection programme was ruled legal by a federal judge in New York, days after a federal judge in Washington declared the operations unconstitutional and "almost Orwellian".

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 1:19 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
And no collusion - or conspiracy if you prefer - with RUSSIA!!! Yes, by all means. Ignore that little failure and keep moving those goalposts.

Speaking of ignorance... do you still not know what Mueller knows? YES!!!

Meanwhile in the real world, the walls keep closing:

https://www.ft.com/content/0df54316-892b-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340

US charges Russian woman of acting as Kremlin agent

The US government has charged a Russian national with conspiring to act as an agent without registering in an apparent effort to build a back-channel between the Kremlin and the Republican Party through the National Rifle Association.

Mariia Butina, 29, appeared in court on Monday and is accused of attempting to infiltrate US political organisations. She was held pending a hearing on Wednesday, according to the Department of Justice.

The charges were unsealed just hours after Donald Trump held a press conference with Vladimir Putin in Helsinki where he refused to back the US intelligence community’s verdict that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election over Mr Putin’s denials.

More at the Justice Dept.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/russian-national-charged-conspiracy-act
-agent-russian-federation-within-united-states

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 1:50 AM (P)

Whatever.

You need three things to support your endless claims. All three things have to be in the same place at the same time. There are three things. Do you think you can remember all three things? Can you hold as many as three things in your mind at the same time?

TRUMP+RUSSIA+CONSPIRACY

Otherwise, you're babbling like an idiot. Oh wait! You ARE an idiot!

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

SECOND

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 2:46 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Whatever.

You need three things to support your endless claims. All three things have to be in the same place at the same time. There are three things. Do you think you can remember all three things? Can you hold as many as three things in your mind at the same time?

TRUMP+RUSSIA+CONSPIRACY

Otherwise, you're babbling like an idiot. Oh wait! You ARE an idiot!

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

Have a little patience, 1kiki. It took years to convict Don Gotti, Don Trump's spiritual brother. Both Dons belligerently declared themselves innocent, as did their many fans. Both Dons continued to go about their crooked business for year after year after year as the FBI continued investigating. It will take years before Trump ends the same as Gotti, unless V.P. Pence pardons Trump. Gotti couldn't expect a pardon because he didn't have buddies who owed him a favor in the GOP controlled Congress or White House.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gotti

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 3:19 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

TRUMP+RUSSIA+CONSPIRACY

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

We got TRUMP(JUNIOR)+RUSSIA+CONSPIRACY

The US Department of Justice today charged Maria Butina, a Russian citizen, with illegally acting as a secret Russian agent on US soil. She was allegedly trying to set up a communications backchannel between the Russian government and US politicians.

Butina’s planned communication backchannel “could be used to penetrate the US national decision-making apparatus to advance the agenda of the Russian federation,” the 17-page affidavit (pdf) says. www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1080766/download

The document describes how Butina was directed by a senior Russian official and was in close contact with two US citizens, as she arranged meetings and dinners with members of an unnamed gun rights organization—almost certainly the National Rifle Association. The description of the senior Russian official directing Butina closely matches the profile of Alexander Torshin, a Russian deputy Central Bank chief.

Torshin, who has been sanctioned by the US Treasury Department, is a lifetime NRA member and shared a table with Donald Trump Jr. at the organization’s 2016 convention. In November 2016, he tweeted that he and Butina were the only Russian lifetime NRA members that he knew.

More at https://qz.com/1329272

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 3:54 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Whatever.

You need three things to support your endless claims. All three things have to be in the same place at the same time. There are three things. Do you think you can remember all three things? Can you hold as many as three things in your mind at the same time?

TRUMP+RUSSIA+CONSPIRACY

Otherwise, you're babbling like an idiot. Oh wait! You ARE an idiot!

Right, because "whatever" is the argument a genius makes. You embarrass yourself.

BTW - do you know what Mueller has?

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 3:57 AM (P)

There is nothing illegal about "back channel" communications between top government officials of different nations. Obama had his own back channel to Russia, and also one with Iran, so WTF???

I would EXPECT that our President, no matter who he or she is, of whatever party, would have non-public lines of communication open to MANY world leaders... in China, Germany, Russia, etc. It's an unsafe world, and would be only more unsafe if significant miscommunication were to occur/ be allowed to persist.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SECOND

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:50 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
There is nothing illegal about "back channel" communications between top government officials of different nations. Obama had his own back channel to Russia, and also one with Iran. WTF???

I would EXPECT that our President, no matter who he or she is, of whatever party, would have non-public lines of communication open to MANY world leaders... in China, Germany, Russia, etc. It's an unsafe world, and would be only more unsafe if significant miscommunication were to occur/ be allowed to persist.

Signym, Trump's staff don't agree with your twisted and silly notions. White House aides want you to believe the president stands with Putin because he doesn’t understand what’s going on.

Top aides at the White House are peddling a remarkable excuse for President Donald Trump’s embarrassing performance at a press conference in Helsinki on Monday, where he sided with Russian President Vladimir Putin over American intelligence officials on the question of whether Russia interfered in the 2016 election.

The president, they tell Axios’s Jonathan Swan, is delusional:

A number of people who’ve discussed election meddling with Trump, including current senior administration officials, say his brain can’t process that collusion and cyberattacks are two different things, Swan emails.

Trump seems constitutionally incapable of taking anything Mueller finds seriously.

He views the entire exercise as a “witch hunt” cooked up by Democrats and Deep State conspirators to underline his election win.

Ego prevents him acknowledging the possibility that any external action could have interfered with his glorious victory.

The handful of White House staff Swan has privately communicated with since today’s press conference are not proud of the man they work for. But he doesn’t expect any to resign.

More at www.axios.com/trump-putin-russia-helsinki-congress-intelligence-06a4c2
1e-59e5-419e-9f70-e88018c87bd2.html

Signym, you wanted Trump to be a "loose cannon" -- an unpredictable or uncontrolled person. That crashing sound isn't a cannon smashing a wooden sailing ship's hull. It is Trump's brain crashing around inside his numb skull.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 5:06 AM (P)

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 5:14 AM (P)

So, speaking of delusional ...

Quote:
Top aides at the White House are peddling a remarkable excuse for President Donald Trump’s embarrassing performance at a press conference in Helsinki on Monday, where he sided with Russian President Vladimir Putin over American intelligence officials on the question of whether Russia interfered in the 2016 election. The president, they tell Axios’s Jonathan Swan, is delusional..

Our "intelligence" officials are known proven liars who have been gunning for Trump since before the election. What did they think he was going to say.. . Yeah, I'm going to side with the officials who have lied in the past, who continue to lie about non-existent collusion, and who have maintained a pattern of extreme bias for Hillary and against me" ... ??? The only people who are delusional are people like Brennan, who I personally suspect of treason.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SECOND

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 5:30 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, speaking of delusional ...

Quote:
Top aides at the White House are peddling a remarkable excuse for President Donald Trump’s embarrassing performance at a press conference in Helsinki on Monday, where he sided with Russian President Vladimir Putin over American intelligence officials on the question of whether Russia interfered in the 2016 election. The president, they tell Axios’s Jonathan Swan, is delusional..
Our "intelligence" officials are known proven liars who have been gunning for Trump since before the election. What did they think he was going to say.. . Yeah, I'm going to side with the officials who have lied in the past, who continue to lie about non-existent collusion, and who have maintained a pattern of extreme bias for Hillary and against me" ... ??? The only people who are delusional are people like Brennan, who I personally suspect of treason.

Rather than speculating about what we don’t know about Trump and Russia, it’s worth stepping back to see how much we do know.

We know that Russia orchestrated a massive theft of information from the Democratic Party and the Clinton campaign, and used that information to help Donald Trump win the election.

We know that Trump publicly asked Russia to do exactly what it did — to hack Clinton’s emails — and we know that Trump repeatedly praised Vladimir Putin, at considerable political cost, in the aftermath. We know that Trump associates, like Roger Stone, appeared to have advance warning of the release of the hacked emails.

We know that the willingness to cooperate with the Russians wasn’t an idiosyncratic musing of Trump’s, but suffused the top ranks of his campaign: Trump’s inner circle — including Manafort, Jared Kushner, and Donald Trump Jr. — eagerly took a meeting with Russian operatives promising dirt on Clinton. And we know Trump himself dictated the statement lying about the purpose of the Trump Tower meeting.

We know, from Trump’s own testimony, that he fired the director of the FBI to end his investigation into Russia’s role in the 2016 election. We know that Trump has wanted to fire both his attorney general and his deputy attorney general because he feels they’ve failed to protect him from this investigation. Tellingly, the Trump administration has moved from arguing that the president did not obstruct justice to arguing that by definition, the president cannot obstruct justice.

We know in that in 2008, Donald Trump Jr. said of the Trump organization, “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets.” We know that in 2014, Eric Trump added, “We don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.” We know that from 2003 to 2017, “buyers connected to Russia or former Soviet republics made 86 all-cash sales — totaling nearly $109 million — at 10 Trump-branded properties in South Florida and New York City.”

We know that Paul Manafort, Trump’s campaign manager, had ties to the Kremlin and was deeply in debt to Oleg Deripaska, a Russian oligarch closely connected to Putin. We know Manafort was in communication with Deripaska’s team during the election, and that he asked, of his powerful position in Trump’s campaign, “How do we use [it] to get whole?”

We know that Russia’s efforts to help Trump went far beyond hacked emails — they included social media campaigns to inflame racial divisions on his behalf, armies of bots meant to elevate news stories helping him and hurting Clinton, and even efforts to compromise state voting machines.

We know that the Trump campaign interfered in the Republican National Committee’s drafting of its platform to soften the language on Russia and Ukraine. We know that Kushner sought a secret communications channel with Russians so the US government couldn’t hear their negotiations. We know that Trump has personally fought both his administration and his party to stop sanctions punishing Russia for electoral interference.

We know that there is no single issu

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 5:30 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, speaking of delusional ...

Quote:
Top aides at the White House are peddling a remarkable excuse for President Donald Trump’s embarrassing performance at a press conference in Helsinki on Monday, where he sided with Russian President Vladimir Putin over American intelligence officials on the question of whether Russia interfered in the 2016 election. The president, they tell Axios’s Jonathan Swan, is delusional..
Our "intelligence" officials are known proven liars who have been gunning for Trump since before the election. What did they think he was going to say.. . Yeah, I'm going to side with the officials who have lied in the past, who continue to lie about non-existent collusion, and who have maintained a pattern of extreme bias for Hillary and against me" ... ??? The only people who are delusional are people like Brennan, who I personally suspect of treason.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

You're Russian.

Why should we care what you say?

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 5:51 AM (P)

If you work for Trump, quit now
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/quit-now-trump-staffers-save-y
our-souls/2018/07/16/6529cb3a-8920-11e8-85ae-511bc1146b0b_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_source=reddit.com&utm_term=.08cded792e7b

Everyone who works for President Trump: Quit now. Save your souls. Save your honor, such as it is. Save your reputation, such as it remains. Russia attacked our democracy. Trump has demonstrated repeatedly, and did so again with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Helsinki, that he doesn’t care and won’t defend his country.

If you work for this man and you call yourself a patriot, it is time for you to go.

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 5:59 AM (P)

It’s Resignation Time
Trump’s performance in Helsinki was a disgrace. Any member of his national security team who sticks with him now is doing a disservice to America.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/07/after-helsinki-any-respons
ible-member-of-trumps-national-security-team-must-resign.html

Really, any member of Trump’s national security team who doesn’t resign immediately—or perhaps better, offer to testify about any incriminating information they might possess—is from this point on doing a disservice to the United States.

The moment that should have been a turning point for all Americans was when Trump was asked whom he believes on the question of whether Russia interfered with the 2016 election: Putin, who denies all involvement, or the U.S. intelligence community, which unanimously and firmly concludes otherwise.

Trump’s reply was, even by his standards, astonishing. First, he tried to skirt the issue, asking what happened to the Democratic National Committee’s computer servers, what happened to Hillary Clinton’s 33,000 emails, why isn’t the FBI looking into those mysteries. Then he said this: “President Putin said it’s not Russia. I don’t see any reason why it should be … I will tell you, President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial.”

So there you have it. Asked to choose between the verbal assurances of the Russian president (a former KGB officer who has lied about all offensive cyberoperations against the West) and the detailed reports of U.S. intelligence agencies (as well as the repeated testimony of his own entire national security team), Trump chose the Russian spy.

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 6:21 AM (P)

Quote:
We got TRUMP(JUNIOR)+RUSSIA+CONSPIRACY

No, you don't.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/russian-national-charged-conspiracy-act
-agent-russian-federation-within-united-states

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1080761/download
Criminal Complaint

Manner and Means of the Conspiracy
b. BUTINA did establish contact with an American political operative in Moscow who thereafter would work with BUTINA in the United States

Overt Acts
a. On or about March 14, 2016, BUTINA emailed a U.S. person in an effort to develop, maintain and exploit a relationship in the furtherance of the conspiracy
c. On or about September 26, 2016, BUTINA emailed a U.S. person to organize an event (note: a prayer breakfast)

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1080766/download

7. U.S. Person 1 is a United States citizen and political operative. BUTINA established contact with U.S. Person 1 in Moscow in or around 2013. U.S. Person 1 worked with BUTINA to jointly arrange introductions to U.S. persons having influence in American politics, including an organization promoting gun rights.

* Further information about U.S. Person 1
U.S. Person 1 received an email from Butina soliciting constructive diplomacy. Butina also mentions a relationship with the gun rights organization, introductions to 'political party leaders' to foster 'informal diplomacy', with a deadline before the election and requesting a $125,000 budget. U.S. Person 1 replied with cautions, advice, and a list of political, media and business contacts.
There's also a lot of communication surrounding trying to bring a National Prayer Breakfast event together. The event was concluded with emailed thanks all around.

8. U.S. Person 2 is a United States citizen who was included among the participants in a series of email communications in 2016 and 2017 that reveal BUTINA's effort to arrange a series of dinners in the District of Columbia and New York City involving Russian Nationals and U.S. persons having influence in American politics. BUTINA told U.S. Person 2 that the RUSSIAN OFFICIAL was "very much impressed by you" and that "the Russian will support the efforts from our side". (These particular quotes are brought up multiple times, but they still only constitute two short phrases.)

* Further information about U.S. Person 2
U.S. Person 2 is an additional recipient of more than one Butina email where she passes along the already noted flattery, and promise of 'support. A few days later, Butina emailed U.S. Person 2 that she had gotten approval from her official, and that all that was needed was Putin's (or presumably a representative - "Putin's side") approval.
U.S. Person 1 and U.S. Person 2 received an email regarding organizing another dinner in D.C.
After the successful completion of the National Prayer Breakfast, Butina emailed U.S. Person 2 with thanks and a cryptic mention that Putin received 'the message' about U.S. Person 2's (?) (the group) initiative.
At no time is there an indication U.S. Person 2 responded directly to any of the estimated 5 or fewer emails.

U.S. Person 1's obsequious and yet self-important communication has the air of a consultant trying to drum up business. I would think it was Manafort, but the timeline looks off.

U.S. Person 2 could be Trump Jr, who appears to be a passive recipient in an email train.

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 6:27 AM (P)

Monday, July 16, 2018 7:30 PM
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62480&mid=1
057271#1057271

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, speaking of delusional ...

Quote:
Top aides at the White House are peddling a remarkable excuse for President Donald Trump’s embarrassing performance at a press conference in Helsinki on Monday, where he sided with Russian President Vladimir Putin over American intelligence officials on the question of whether Russia interfered in the 2016 election. The president, they tell Axios’s Jonathan Swan, is delusional..
Our "intelligence" officials are known proven liars who have been gunning for Trump since before the election. What did they think he was going to say.. . Yeah, I'm going to side with the officials who have lied in the past, who continue to lie about non-existent collusion, and who have maintained a pattern of extreme bias for Hillary and against me" ... ??? The only people who are delusional are people like Brennan, who I personally suspect of treason.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
You're Russian.

Why should we care what you say?

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

SECOND

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 6:32 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/russian-national-charged-conspiracy-act
-agent-russian-federation-within-united-states

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

Nice try, Comrade 1kiki, but no cigar.

Asked directly, Putin does not deny possessing “compromising material” on Trump. Yes, this is about the “pee tape.”

Putin did not say the tape doesn’t exist. Instead, he argued that he was not personally aware of Trump’s trip to Russia and also mentioned about businessmen: “Do you think that we try to collect compromising material on each and every single one of them?” No, just the important ones.

In the past, Trump has obsessed over the existence of compromising footage, saying “if they had it, it would have been out long ago.” Trump in office has served as the most Russia-sympathetic, NATO-skeptical, EU-hostile president since the end of World War II, and it clearly wouldn’t be in the interests of the Russian government to release anything that would make Trump look bad.

More at www.vox.com/2018/7/16/17576784/trump-putin-pee-tape

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 6:33 AM (P)

RF

I'm curious what will go through your mind when you're proven wrong in court.

I wonder if your teeny, tiny head will explode.

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 6:36 AM (P)

Quote:
We got TRUMP(JUNIOR)+RUSSIA+CONSPIRACY

No, you don't.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/russian-national-charged-conspiracy-act
-agent-russian-federation-within-united-states

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1080761/download
Criminal Complaint

Manner and Means of the Conspiracy
b. BUTINA did establish contact with an American political operative in Moscow who thereafter would work with BUTINA in the United States

Overt Acts
a. On or about March 14, 2016, BUTINA emailed a U.S. person in an effort to develop, maintain and exploit a relationship in the furtherance of the conspiracy
c. On or about September 26, 2016, BUTINA emailed a U.S. person to organize an event (note: a prayer breakfast)

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1080766/download

7. U.S. Person 1 is a United States citizen and political operative. BUTINA established contact with U.S. Person 1 in Moscow in or around 2013. U.S. Person 1 worked with BUTINA to jointly arrange introductions to U.S. persons having influence in American politics, including an organization promoting gun rights.

* Further information about U.S. Person 1
U.S. Person 1 received an email from Butina soliciting constructive diplomacy. Butina also mentions a relationship with the gun rights organization, introductions to 'political party leaders' to foster 'informal diplomacy', with a deadline before the election and requesting a $125,000 budget. U.S. Person 1 replied with cautions, advice, and a list of political, media and business contacts.
There's also a lot of communication surrounding trying to bring a National Prayer Breakfast event together. The event was concluded with emailed thanks all around.

8. U.S. Person 2 is a United States citizen who was included among the participants in a series of email communications in 2016 and 2017 that reveal BUTINA's effort to arrange a series of dinners in the District of Columbia and New York City involving Russian Nationals and U.S. persons having influence in American politics. BUTINA told U.S. Person 2 that the RUSSIAN OFFICIAL was "very much impressed by you" and that "the Russian will support the efforts from our side". (These particular quotes are brought up multiple times, but they still only constitute two short phrases.)

* Further information about U.S. Person 2
U.S. Person 2 is an additional recipient of more than one Butina email where she passes along the already noted flattery, and promise of 'support. A few days later, Butina emailed U.S. Person 2 that she had gotten approval from her official, and that all that was needed was Putin's (or presumably a representative - "Putin's side") approval.
U.S. Person 1 and U.S. Person 2 received an email regarding organizing another dinner in D.C.
After the successful completion of the National Prayer Breakfast, Butina emailed U.S. Person 2 with thanks and a cryptic mention that Putin received 'the message' about U.S. Person 2's (?) (the group) initiative.
At no time is there an indication U.S. Person 2 responded directly to any of the estimated 5 or fewer emails.

U.S. Person 1's obsequious and yet self-important communication has the air of a consultant trying to drum up business. I would think it was Manafort, but the timeline looks off. I can't at all explain the request for a $125,000 'budget'.

U.S. Person 2 could be Trump Jr, who appears to be a passive recipient in an email train.

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:35 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
RF

I'm curious what will go through your mind when you're proven wrong in court.

I wonder if your teeny, tiny head will explode.

Likewise, comrade.

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:41 AM (P)

Look! A Republican who puts country above party! Wow! I wasn't sure there were any left!

Southeast Ohio Republican Party leader resigns over Trump-Putin meeting
https://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2018/07/southeast_ohio_republ
ican_part.html

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:41 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Look! A Republican who puts country above party! Wow! I wasn't sure there were any left!

Southeast Ohio Republican Party leader resigns over Trump-Putin meeting
https://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2018/07/southeast_ohio_republ
ican_part.html

Drain that swamp baby.

Another one bites the dust.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:43 AM (P)

Hillary Clinton: 'Now we know' which team Trump plays for
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/397309-hillary-clinton-now-
we-know-which-team-trump-plays-for

Hillary Clinton said “now we know” what team President Trump plays for, following his joint press conference Monday with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Clinton had asked Trump in a Sunday tweet "which team he plays for."

After the Trump-Putin summit in Helsinki, Clinton said she had her answer.

SECOND

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:44 AM (P)

Good to know that 1kiki will defend Trump, even when the GOP would rather not. They hope Helsinki will soon be forgotten. I believe it will, except not by me:

Newt Gingrich @newtgingrich — President Trump must clarify his statements in Helsinki on our intelligence system and Putin. It is the most serious mistake of his presidency and must be corrected—-immediately.

Michael Anton — a diehard Trump supporter who worked at the White House until recently — cancelled his appearance on CNN because he said he couldn’t defend Trump.

Conservative journalist Byron York on Fox: “Putin wasn’t taking the side of the US intelligence service. That’s a significant mistake.”

Sen. John McCain: “One of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory.”

Sen. Bob Corker: “I did not think this was a good moment for our country.”

Sen. Jeff Flake: “This is shameful.”

Thomas Friedman: “Such behavior by an American president is so perverse, so contrary to American interests and values, that it leads to only one conclusion: Donald Trump is either an asset of Russian intelligence or really enjoys playing one on TV.”

Paul Ryan: “The president must appreciate that Russia is not our ally. There is no moral equivalence between the United States and Russia, which remains hostile to our most basic values and ideals.”

State Department: Nothing. The entire department went dark today.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:48 AM (P)

The beginning of the end of a fascist nightmare.

Even I, an eternal skeptic, can't see how Trump can get his handlers to spin him out of this.

Rush Limbaugh will try first, of course. What I'm hearing on reichwing channels at the moment is weak sauce.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:50 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
The beginning of the end of a fascist nightmare.

Even I, an eternal skeptic, can't see how Trump can get his handlers to spin him out of this.

Rush Limbaugh will try first, of course. What I'm hearing on reichwing channels at the moment is weak sauce.

Tick Tock?

lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 8:02 AM (P)

We'll see how Rush spins it. He's the main mouthpiece of the RNC.

SECOND

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 8:04 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Tick Tock?

lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

More like Trump is a cuckoo clock tick tock.

Having offered earlier in the week scathing, specific indictments of the European Union’s immigration policy, of the United Kingdom’s efforts to negotiate a “soft” version of Brexit, and of Germany’s energy infrastructure policies, Trump had no specific criticisms of Vladimir Putin’s domestic or international policies.

Asked point-blank by a Reuters journalist, “Do you hold Russia at all accountable for anything in particular” that has contributed to the decline in the US-Russia bilateral relationship, President Trump delivered the defining answer of his foreign policy: He does not.

He did not object to Putin’s domestic repression, to Russia’s 2008 effort to dismember the former Soviet republic of Georgia, to Russian-backed forces shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH-17 and killing hundreds of civilians, to Russia’s invasion of Crimea or subsequent invasion of Eastern Ukraine, to Russia’s apparent use of a deadly nerve agent in the UK, or (of course) to the computer hacking associated with the 2016 election.

Trump’s staff keeps trying to cover for him, but Trump’s words say otherwise. It’s true, of course, that he’s not bothered by Russians committing crimes to help him win the election. But he’s also not bothered by anything Putin does at all, which is why he was worth helping in the first place.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 8:15 AM (P)

"Good to know that 1kiki will defend Trump"

Except I didn't. Unlike you SLOPPY-SECONDS, I tried to understand what this meant. As far as I can tell, neither U.S. Citizen 1 nor U.S. Citizen 2 were indicted, or put in legal jeopardy by any of the documents I found. Nothing IN THOSE DOCUMENTS shows that TRUMP(JUNIOR)+RUSSIANS+CONSPIRACY exists, as you so stupidly claimed. But, that's just you. The stupid person's stupid person.

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 8:16 AM (P)

Trump just colluded with Russia. Openly.
If Putin wanted a U.S. president to do his bidding, it would look exactly like this
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/trump-just-put
-russia-first/2018/07/16/8391f9aa-8914-11e8-a345-a1bf7847b375_story.html?utm_source=reddit.com&utm_term=.b83d91bf69f6

A generally pro-Trump source.

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 8:33 AM (P)

Sadly, Trump's efforts to defuse tensions between nuclear powers will fail utterly.

But the REACTION to his efforts -

It reminds me of the time Ronald Reagan (Saint Reagan, to republicans) escaped his handlers and minders and sat down to talk with Gorbachev. And low and behold, the two emerged with a common goal of reducing nuclear arms.

Democrats, who at the time thought being anti-war was the key to success, couldn't cheer. After all, the 'wrong side' did it. And republicans were furious at Reagan for being a republican who fundamentally disavowed their war-hawk strategy.

NOBODY was happy over that good agreement.

But together Reagan and Gorbachev concluded the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) agreement and established the foundation for the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START).

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 3:32 PM (P)

Yeah, Trump's a genius. This is all about making the world a better place...

SECOND

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:05 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Yeah, Trump's a genius. This is all about making the world a better place...

Donald Trump could be the new Benedict Arnold, or the alternative explanation, from Senator Mike Rounds (GOP - South Dakota), is that Trump lied about Russian meddling during summit as a bizarre form of statecraft: "Everything I’ve seen and all the facts are very clear: Russia did meddle in our election. That was very clear. So I think what actually happened, I think Mr. Putin just got out-Trumped by Trump. If Mr. Putin thinks he can tell a whopper, he’s not gonna be outdone by this president. And so if Mr. Putin is going to look at him and try to straight-faced tell him that they didn’t meddle, our president can look right back at him and tell just as big a whopper back to Putin as Putin told him."
https://twitter.com/ericawerner/status/1018991723878453248

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:16 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Unlike you SLOPPY-SECONDS, I tried to understand what this meant.

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

And too bad you failed to, your word, "understand". Are you sure "understand" is the right word? "Obfuscate" is what you actually did. And not just once, but thousands of times over many years. Could you possibly be a Russian like Maria Butina? Or just a crazy American?

To help 1kiki truly "understand", only hours after Trump and Putin’s lovefest ended the Justice Department announced that it had charged Russian woman Maria Butina, unregistered foreign agent of the Russian Federation, with establishing a back channel means of communication between influential Republicans and the Russian government.

The CIA had a rule against meeting the KGB alone. Trump was reckless to ignore it with Putin.

In 1983, the KGB contacted Carl Gebhardt, the CIA’s Moscow station chief, with a proposal. In order to avoid needless problems between the two spy services, the KGB wanted to open a secret communications channel with the CIA.

The CIA readily agreed, and the pact led to a series of secret meetings between top CIA and KGB officials in Europe. Eventually nicknamed the “Gavrilov channel,” after a 19th century Russian poet, this carefully choreographed exchange of secret communications continued throughout the remainder of the Cold War.

Some of the Gavrilov meetings took place in Helsinki, where Donald Trump met with Vladimir Putin on Monday. But one of the key differences between the Gavrilov channel and the Trump-Putin meeting was that the CIA always insisted on having at least two American officers present – no one from the CIA could meet the KGB alone. That guaranteed that no American could hand over secrets to the KGB without at least one other American knowing about it; it also insured that no American would come under unfair suspicion of being a KGB spy simply by meeting with the Russians alone.

Trump, on the other hand, insisted on meeting Putin without any of his aides present. At a time when there is a federal investigation underway into whether his campaign colluded with the Russians to win the 2016 election, Trump’s decision to meet Putin alone was at best reckless. His many critics will take it as further evidence that he really is a KGB agent.

Both leaders’ comments to reporters after the meeting only reinforced the growing belief among many Americans that Trump is in Putin’s pocket. Trump said that Putin had denied to him that Russia had meddled in the 2016 election — and that was good enough for Trump. “My people came to me, [Director of the Office of National Intelligence] Dan Coats came to me and some others, they said they think it’s Russia,” Trump said. “I have President Putin. He just said it’s not Russia. I don’t see any reason why it would be.”

More at https://theintercept.com/2018/07/16/trump-putin-summit-helsinki/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:26 PM (P)

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 5:03 PM (P)

In other news: Maria Butina, Russian "gun rights activist," working with the NRA, is arrested for spying. The other Russians indicted will probably never see a trial, but she's right here in an American jail.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/16/politics/butina-russia-arrest-7-things/
index.html

Manafort's hearing is suddenly moved back.
https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2018/06/12/paul-manafor
t-virginia-trial-schedule-637802

Reichwingers all over the country put their fingers in their ears and go "La la la, I can't hear you!"

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 5:36 PM (P)

WAIT… WHAT?
Trump’s ‘Missing DNC Server’ Is Neither Missing Nor a Server
The president can spout conspiracy theories all he wants. But the DNC turned over all its key data to the FBI after it got hacked. And that info wasn’t stored on a single server.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-missing-dnc-server-is-neither-mis
sing-nor-a-server

SECOND

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 5:37 PM (P)

Trump’s behavior at Nato, in London, in Helsinki, is so inexplicable and so against the interest of the United States, so against what all of his advisers have told him that Americans are scratching their heads and saying, if that’s not the explanation, that Putin has something on him, then what is it? What the heck could it be? It could be Putin says flattering things about Trump, so our president, a walking bundle of insecurities, likes him. Further, his liking of Vladimir Putin triggers the libs. But the libs have evidence enough that Trump acts this way because the Russians have dirt on him. The spectacle in Helsinki proves that Putin has something on the President, personally, financially or politically. Which one? I suggest Congress waterboard Trump to find out which. Trump said waterboarding is an okay way to gather evidence:

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 6:52 PM (P)

Quote:
Trump’s behavior at Nato, in London, in Helsinki, is so inexplicable and so against the interest of the United States

Bullshit

You have not once - NOT ONCE - explained the interests of the United States, or explained WHICH United States interests you feel have been crossed.

You've wailed long and loud about the poor illegal Hispanic migrants, the poor downtrodden Syrians, the poor fearful Eastern Europeans who need protection from Big Bad Russia, the poor poor around the world .... but NOT ONCE have you actually posted about AMERICA's interests. It's like you conflated our interests with every foreign victim subgroup, and act like we're supposed to swoop in and fix everything for everybody. (Yanno, like that worked so well in Vietnam.)

So, since you brought up American's interests, maybe NOW is the time to tell me what our interests are that have been crossed?? Not Canada's, not Britain's, not the EU's .... not Mexico's, not Syria's, not Ukraine's .... ours.

I'll bet you that you can't.

I predict that you will, once again, evade explaining an actual basis for your giant temper tantrum, and with nary a pause for reflection will continue to stomp your feet and bang your head against the floor and troll.

Because that's what adults do in a real world discussion board.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:01 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
WAIT… WHAT?
Trump’s ‘Missing DNC Server’ Is Neither Missing Nor a Server
The president can spout conspiracy theories all he wants. But the DNC turned over all its key data to the FBI after it got hacked. And that info wasn’t stored on a single server.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-missing-dnc-server-is-neither-mis
sing-nor-a-server

In order to understand what happened when one must examine THE ACTUAL HARD DRIVES AND LOGS.

What REAVERFAN fails to understand is that data doesn't go into a "cloud" somewhere, it goes into an actual server, or set of servers, which are controlled by software which maintains, among other things, log files of every requested access. Somehow, I doubt the FBI got THAT information.

I find it emblematic that the FBI simply took the DNC's word for it that they were "hacked" without once examining the actual system files and hard drives. Furthermore, and more importantly, the FBI has apparently deliberately blocked any attempt to discuss the issue with the one person who knows FOR SURE where the files came from, and that is Julian Assange. THAT particular fact is hard to explain and impossible to get around. It would be the SECOND thing that a genuine investigator would do, after taking possession of the actual hard drives (for forensic examination) and closely examining the log files. So, why wasn't either action done?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:48 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Trump’s behavior at Nato, in London, in Helsinki, is so inexplicable and so against the interest of the United States
Bullshit

You have not once - NOT ONCE - explained the interests of the United States, or explained WHICH United States interests you feel have been crossed.

You've wailed long and loud about the poor illegal Hispanic migrants, the poor downtrodden Syrians, the poor fearful Eastern Europeans who need protection from Big Bad Russia, the poor poor around the world .... but NOT ONCE have you actually posted about AMERICA's interests. It's like you conflated our interests with every foreign victim subgroup, and act like we're supposed to swoop in and fix everything for everybody. (Yanno, like that worked so well in Vietnam.)

So, since you brought up American's interests, maybe NOW is the time to tell me what our interests are that have been crossed?? Not Canada's, not Britain's, not the EU's .... not Mexico's, not Syria's, not Ukraine's .... ours.

I predict that you will, once again, evade explaining an actual basis for your giant temper tantrum, and with nary a pause for reflection will continue to stomp your feet and bang your head against the floor and troll.

Because that's what adults do in a real world discussion board.

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:49 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
WAIT… WHAT?
Trump’s ‘Missing DNC Server’ Is Neither Missing Nor a Server
The president can spout conspiracy theories all he wants. But the DNC turned over all its key data to the FBI after it got hacked. And that info wasn’t stored on a single server.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-missing-dnc-server-is-neither-mis
sing-nor-a-server

In order to understand what happened when one must examine THE ACTUAL HARD DRIVES AND LOGS.

What REAVERFAN fails to understand is that data doesn't go into a "cloud" somewhere, it goes into an actual server, or set of servers, which are controlled by software which maintains, among other things, log files of every requested access. Somehow, I doubt the FBI got THAT information.

I find it emblematic that the FBI simply took the DNC's word for it that they were "hacked" without once examining the actual system files and hard drives. Furthermore, and more importantly, the FBI has apparently deliberately blocked any attempt to discuss the issue with the one person who knows FOR SURE where the files came from, and that is Julian Assange. THAT particular fact is hard to explain and impossible to get around. It would be the SECOND thing that a genuine investigator would do, after taking possession of the actual hard drives (for forensic examination) and closely examining the log files. So, why wasn't either action done?

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:50 PM (P)

I see our local "computer genius" RF is such a whiz that he double-posted. Again.

Someone should teach you how to use the internet.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 11:22 PM (P)

Top Voting Machine Vendor Admits It Installed Remote-Access Software on Systems Sold to States
Remote-access software and modems on election equipment 'is the worst decision for security short of leaving ballot boxes on a Moscow street corner.'
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/mb4ezy/top-voting-machine-v
endor-admits-it-installed-remote-access-software-on-systems-sold-to-states?utm_source=reddit.com

In a letter sent to Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) in April and obtained recently by Motherboard, Election Systems and Software acknowledged that it had "provided pcAnywhere remote connection software … to a small number of customers between 2000 and 2006," which was installed on the election-management system ES&S sold them.

The statement contradicts what the company told me and fact checkers for a story I wrote for the New York Times in February. At that time, a spokesperson said ES&S had never installed pcAnywhere on any election system it sold. "None of the employees, … including long-tenured employees, has any knowledge that our voting systems have ever been sold with remote-access software," the spokesperson said.

ES&S did not respond on Monday to questions from Motherboard, and it’s not clear why the company changed its response between February and April. Lawmakers, however, have subpoena powers that can compel a company to hand over documents or provide sworn testimony on a matter lawmakers are investigating, and a statement made to lawmakers that is later proven false can have greater consequence for a company than one made to reporters.

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 11:24 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I see our local "computer genius" RF is such a whiz that he double-posted. Again.

Someone should teach you how to use the internet.

When your ass gets handed to you everyday by your betters, deflect.

Are you triggered, Russian troll?

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, July 17, 2018 11:27 PM (P)

I.R.S. Will No Longer Force Kochs and Other Groups to Disclose Donors
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/17/us/politics/irs-will-no-longer-forc
e-kochs-and-other-groups-to-disclose-donors.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

The Trump administration will end a longstanding requirement that certain nonprofit organizations disclose the names of their large donors to the Internal Revenue Service, a move that will allow some political groups to shield their sources of funding from government scrutiny.

The change, which has been long sought by conservatives and Republicans in Congress, will affect labor unions, social clubs and, most notably, many political groups like the National Rifle Association and the Koch network’s Americans for Prosperity, which collect what is known as “dark money.”

Politics for sale to the highest donor.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 12:38 AM (P)

Quote:
I see our local "computer genius" RF is such a whiz that he double-posted. Again.
Someone should teach you how to use the internet. - SIGNY

Are you triggered, Russian troll? - RF

When your ass gets handed to you everyday by your betters, deflect.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

REAVERFAN

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 2:00 AM (P)

24 hours later, Trump claims he misspoke in Helsinki, meant to say Russia did have reason to meddle in election
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/24-hours-later-trump-cl
aims-he-misspoke-helsinki-meant-say-n892166?cid=eml_nbn_20180717

A Narcissist's Prayer

That didn't happen.

And if it did, it wasn't that bad.

And if it was, that's not a big deal.

And if it is, that's not my fault.

And if it was, I didn't mean it.

And if I did...

You deserved it.

Trump is mentally ill. Supporting that madman is treason.

REAVERFAN

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 2:01 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
I see our local "computer genius" RF is such a whiz that he double-posted. Again.
Someone should teach you how to use the internet. - SIGNY

Are you triggered, Russian troll? - RF

When your ass gets handed to you everyday by your betters, deflect.

The difference being, I actually hand you your ass. You cry like a baby snowflake as I systematically deconstruct your lies.

Triggered you again!

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 2:33 AM (P)

Just to make sure that this doesn't get buried in REAVERFAN's troll-spew:

Quote:
Trump’s behavior at Nato, in London, in Helsinki, is so inexplicable and so against the interest of the United States- SECOND

Bullshit
You have not once - NOT ONCE - explained the interests of the United States, or explained WHICH United States interests you feel have been crossed.
You've wailed long and loud about the poor illegal Hispanic migrants, the poor downtrodden Syrians, the poor fearful Eastern Europeans who need protection from Big Bad Russia, the poor poor around the world .... but NOT ONCE have you actually posted about AMERICA's interests. It's like you conflated our interests with every foreign victim subgroup, and act like we're supposed to swoop in and fix everything for everybody. (Yanno, like that worked so well in Vietnam.)
So, since you brought up American's interests, maybe NOW is the time to tell me what our interests are that have been crossed?? Not Canada's, not Britain's, not the EU's .... not Mexico's, not Syria's, not Ukraine's .... ours.

I'll bet you that you can't.
I predict that you will, once again, evade explaining an actual basis for your giant temper tantrum, and with nary a pause for reflection will continue to stomp your feet and bang your head against the floor and troll.
Because that's what adults do in a real world discussion board.

SIGNY

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

REAVERFAN

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 3:46 AM (P)

SECOND

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 4:54 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Just to make sure that this doesn't get buried in REAVERFAN's troll-spew:

Quote:
Trump’s behavior at Nato, in London, in Helsinki, is so inexplicable and so against the interest of the United States- SECOND

Bullshit
You have not once - NOT ONCE - explained the interests of the United States, or explained WHICH United States interests you feel have been crossed.
You've wailed long and loud about the poor illegal Hispanic migrants, the poor downtrodden Syrians, the poor fearful Eastern Europeans who need protection from Big Bad Russia, the poor poor around the world .... but NOT ONCE have you actually posted about AMERICA's interests. It's like you conflated our interests with every foreign victim subgroup, and act like we're supposed to swoop in and fix everything for everybody. (Yanno, like that worked so well in Vietnam.)
So, since you brought up American's interests, maybe NOW is the time to tell me what our interests are that have been crossed?? Not Canada's, not Britain's, not the EU's .... not Mexico's, not Syria's, not Ukraine's .... ours.

I'll bet you that you can't.
I predict that you will, once again, evade explaining an actual basis for your giant temper tantrum, and with nary a pause for reflection will continue to stomp your feet and bang your head against the floor and troll.
Because that's what adults do in a real world discussion board.

SIGNY

Trump's pro-Russia stance during the press conference was wide-ranging. Asked whether Russia had done anything at all to contribute to the deterioration of US-Russia relations, Trump was not able to name any specific acts — not murdering hundreds of people by shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH-17, not complicity in Bashar al-Assad’s war crimes in Syria, not the invasion of Crimea, nothing — other than special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation.

Congressional Republicans have been looking ever since Trump left the podium in Helsinki for a way to avoid doing anything about the fact that the president is, for whatever reason, trying to cozy up to Russia and disrupt America's alliances with the UK, EU, Nato, Japan, South Korea, Canada, etc. Even the United Nations!

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 5:19 AM (P)

Trump’s shameful performance on Monday in his meeting with Putin generated significant rhetorical pushback from congressional Republicans — but, as usual, zero action.

Nobody in the GOP caucus moved to disclose Trump’s tax returns so we could better understand what financial shenanigans undergird his unusual affection for Putin. Nobody suggested hearings at which former Trump administration officials could be compelled to reveal what they know. They were clearly uncomfortable with the line Trump took but also uncomfortable with the idea of actual confrontation.

And after Trump finished speaking, he passed the baton to Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX), the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee.

Brady, rather than responding with incredulity to Trump’s absurd statement, simply lauded his leadership and the concept of “peace through strength” before going on to talk about tax cuts.

Brady is one of the smarter and more policy-savvy members of the House, and I wouldn’t dream of insulting his intelligence by suggesting that he actually found Trump’s presentation persuasive. But it was good enough for Brady to feel comfortable continuing to ignore the elephant (or, perhaps, bear) in the room and move on to the GOP’s overriding goal of helping rich people have more money.

More at www.vox.com/2018/7/17/17582874/trump-putin-statement-wouldnt

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 5:26 AM (P)

Quote:
Trump’s behavior at Nato, in London, in Helsinki, is so inexplicable and so against the interest of the United States- SECOND

Bullshit
You have not once - NOT ONCE - explained the interests of the United States, or explained WHICH United States interests you feel have been crossed.
You've wailed long and loud about the poor illegal Hispanic migrants, the poor downtrodden Syrians, the poor fearful Eastern Europeans who need protection from Big Bad Russia, the poor poor around the world .... but NOT ONCE have you actually posted about AMERICA's interests. It's like you conflated our interests with every foreign victim subgroup, and act like we're supposed to swoop in and fix everything for everybody. (Yanno, like that worked so well in Vietnam.)
So, since you brought up American's interests, maybe NOW is the time to tell me what our interests are that have been crossed?? Not Canada's, not Britain's, not the EU's .... not Mexico's, not Syria's, not Ukraine's .... ours.

I'll bet you that you can't.
I predict that you will, once again, evade explaining an actual basis for your giant temper tantrum, and with nary a pause for reflection will continue to stomp your feet and bang your head against the floor and troll.
Because that's what adults do in a real world discussion board.

SIGNY

Trump's pro-Russia stance during the press conference was wide-ranging. Asked whether Russia had done anything at all to contribute to the deterioration of US-Russia relations, Trump was not able to name any specific acts — not murdering hundreds of people by shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH-17, not complicity in Bashar al-Assad’s war crimes in Syria, not the invasion of Crimea, nothing — other than special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation.

Congressional Republicans have been looking ever since Trump left the podium in Helsinki for a way to avoid doing anything about the fact that the president is, for whatever reason, trying to cozy up to Russia and disrupt America's alliances with the UK, EU, Nato, Japan, South Korea, Canada, etc. Even the United Nations!- SECOND

And, as predicted:

*****

So, since you brought up American's interests, maybe NOW is the time to tell me what our interests are that have been crossed?? Not Canada's, not Britain's, not the EU's .... not Mexico's, not Syria's, not Ukraine's .... ours.

I'll bet you that you can't.
I predict that you will, once again, evade explaining an actual basis for your giant temper tantrum, and with nary a pause for reflection will continue to stomp your feet and bang your head against the floor and troll.
Because that's what adults do in a real world discussion board.

*******

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SECOND

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 6:04 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

And, as predicted:

*****

So, since you brought up American's interests, maybe NOW is the time to tell me what our interests are that have been crossed?? Not Canada's, not Britain's, not the EU's .... not Mexico's, not Syria's, not Ukraine's .... ours.

I'll bet you that you can't.
I predict that you will, once again, evade explaining an actual basis for your giant temper tantrum, and with nary a pause for reflection will continue to stomp your feet and bang your head against the floor and troll.
Because that's what adults do in a real world discussion board.

Signym, when you write using the words "ours" or "America's interests" there is nobody at fff.net that believes, except maybe 1kiki logging in from a desk near yours somewhere East of Moscow and maybe that dumbass, white-trash, whiner/hick/alcoholic 6ixStringJack, that you are thinking of anything but Russia's interests. Except Russia does not have any interests. It is Putin that has interests. Stalin had interests. Khrushchev had interests. Russia's interests change whenever the top man changes. In America, that is not how it works, but Trump is trying to change that. There are 333,000,000 different interests. When you throw them all together, America talks of "America's interest", but it is really hundreds of millions, not at all like Russia. And especially not at all like Trump thinks America's interests should be identical to Trump's interests. That is the strong man system, the Russian system, the Chinese system, the North Korean system.

Because there are 333,000,000 interests in America, they don't want Trump to throw away all those alliances with the UK, Canada, Nato, Europe, etc. that millions of Americans made decades before Trump came along and decided he would remake everything as he pleased. And they don't want all those interests suddenly replaced by Putin's interests for Russia. What is so special about Russia that it should outweigh the entire rest of the world?

Russia is a crappy country poorly governed. Huge area, 144 million population, but economic activity less than Texas, where I am from. If you want to bring up Russia's nukes and rockets, Texas builds all American bombs at Pantex, in the Texas Panhandle. Texas launches rockets. Builds them, too. Has a manned space program. Texas produces more oil and natural gas than Russia.

If Trump wants to shove up the ass of all Americans a new American interest replacing all previous ones, he should make it Texas, not Russia.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

REAVERFAN

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:24 AM (P)

'Better Than Super': Russia Reacts To Trump-Putin Summit In Helsinki
https://www.npr.org/2018/07/17/629796887/better-than-super-russia-reac
ts-to-trump-putin-summit-in-helsinki

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, a master of diplomatic verbosity and sardonic barbs, summed up the results of the Helsinki summit in just three exuberant words: "better than super."

After four years of getting short shrift by his American counterparts, Russian President Vladimir Putin was standing side by side with President Trump, who lavished him with the words of praise, respect and awe normally only heard on Russian state television.

JO753

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:27 AM (P)

Well sed, 2nd.

A big part uv Trump making past inauguration day and all the way to now iz the ignorans andor deplorablness uv hiz voterz. The GoPs in charge are so focused on getting re-elected that they cant see where Trump iz taking the US.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 12:22 PM (P)

And, as predicted:

Quote:
So, since you brought up American's interests, maybe NOW is the time to tell me what our interests are that have been crossed?? Not Canada's, not Britain's, not the EU's .... not Mexico's, not Syria's, not Ukraine's .... ours.

I'll bet you that you can't.
I predict that you will, once again, evade explaining an actual basis for your giant temper tantrum, and with nary a pause for reflection will continue to stomp your feet and bang your head against the floor and troll.

Because that's what adults do in a real world discussion board.- SIGNY

Signym, when you write using the words "ours" or "America's interests" there is nobody at fff.net that believes, except maybe 1kiki logging in from a desk near yours somewhere East of Moscow and maybe that dumbass, white-trash, whiner/hick/alcoholic 6ixStringJack, that you are thinking of anything but Russia's interests. Except Russia does not have any interests. - SECOND

NICE TROLLING, SECOND.

Yanno, when you write using the words "ours" or "America's interests" there is nobody at fff.net that believes that you are thinking about AMERICA's interests. Because your mind seems to get boggled just on the idea that "Americans" ... as a whole ... might actually have common interests and common needs. "Americans" ... it's a concept that your mind seems incapable of grasping. Which is kind of funny, because you sure can identify everyone else's interests EXCEPT "Americans'": The poor illegal immigrant, the poor EU bureaucrat, the poor British spy, the poor deep stater.

What a true democratic patriot!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SECOND

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 5:45 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And, as predicted:

Quote:
So, since you brought up American's interests, maybe NOW is the time to tell me what our interests are that have been crossed?? Not Canada's, not Britain's, not the EU's .... not Mexico's, not Syria's, not Ukraine's .... ours.

I'll bet you that you can't.
I predict that you will, once again, evade explaining an actual basis for your giant temper tantrum, and with nary a pause for reflection will continue to stomp your feet and bang your head against the floor and troll.

Because that's what adults do in a real world discussion board.- SIGNY

Signym, when you write using the words "ours" or "America's interests" there is nobody at fff.net that believes, except maybe 1kiki logging in from a desk near yours somewhere East of Moscow and maybe that dumbass, white-trash, whiner/hick/alcoholic 6ixStringJack, that you are thinking of anything but Russia's interests. Except Russia does not have any interests. - SECOND
NICE TROLLING, SECOND.

Yanno, when you write using the words "ours" or "America's interests" there is nobody at fff.net that believes that you are thinking about AMERICA's interests. Because your mind seems to get boggled just on the idea that "Americans" ... as a whole ... might actually have common interests and common needs. "Americans" ... it's a concept that your mind seems incapable of grasping. Which is kind of funny, because you sure can identify everyone else's interests EXCEPT "Americans'": The poor illegal immigrant, the poor EU bureaucrat, the poor British spy, the poor deep stater.

What a true democratic patriot!

Signym, you are trying to use rhetorical judo, but it doesn't work because you are looking at the world from Putin's or Trump's viewpoint, where the strongman at the top is there only to express his country's best interests. It is such a false way to look at the world. That is what a Putin or a Trump would like you to believe and those two actually make that claim for their motivation but it has not worked out to the advantage of the Russian people. Not working for America, either.

America had other strongmen for President. They made arbitrary decisions to take Cuba, the Philippines, Iraq, Vietnam, Panama, even the Moon. Remember how important it was for Americans to conquer space and then suddenly it wasn't? But the America people have no interest in these projects and the next Presidents cancelled them. If any of these projects were in "America's Interest", rather than a particular President's hobby horse, America would still be running those places.

What Putin and Russia are doing is completely arbitrary and personally based on the caprice of Putin, not what Russians might need. I don't think Trump has a direction other than wealth for himself and personal grandeur. He has only impulses that change frequently. For now Trump follows whatever Putin is doing. When Trump's attention was on North Korea, Trump's impulses followed strongman Kim, who was for a few weeks the most wonderful person in the world for Trump. Kim was Trump's role model of a strongman. Then Trump switched back to strongman Putin. But when the GOP hierarchy calls, Trump switches to that for the day. There is no constant direction for Trump toward "America's Interest".

If Putin dies before this Xmas, the next Russian strongman will go off in another arbitrary direction. But his starting point will be wherever Putin was when he died. Suddenly Trump will be without a compass to guide himself. Who knows what he will align himself with? He doesn't even know. I doubt Trump is aware of anything except what is happening to himself and who is praising him. What is on FOX News, what is Xi Jinping's latest complement for how beautiful Trump is? Trump really needs help in choos

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 6:08 PM (P)

And, as predicted:

Quote:
So, since you brought up American's interests, maybe NOW is the time to tell me what our interests are that have been crossed?? Not Canada's, not Britain's, not the EU's .... not Mexico's, not Syria's, not Ukraine's .... ours.

I'll bet you that you can't.
I predict that you will, once again, evade explaining an actual basis for your giant temper tantrum, and with nary a pause for reflection will continue to stomp your feet and bang your head against the floor and troll.

Because that's what adults do in a real world discussion board.- SIGNY

Signym, you are trying to use rhetorical judo, but it doesn't work because you are looking at the world from Putin's or Trump's viewpoint, where the strongman at the top is there only to express his country's best interests. - SECOND

SECOND< you are trying to use psychological judo, but it doesn't work because EVERYONE remembers your screeds in which your circle of disdain and contempt expanded from Texas Republicans to Republicans to Trump voters to anyone who wasn't part of the 1%. You TALK about "American interests" and you PRETEND like it means something to you, but in reality your psyche resists the idea and you can't even seem to grasp the concept that there really is a category called "Americans" and that they might... actually .... have communal needs and interests.

So, CAN you explain American interests???

HERE'S A HINT: If, in your explanation of "American" interests you start out by referencing ANY OTHER entity or person besides America and the American people .... NATO, Canada, Putin, the poor illegal immigrant, Ukraine, Syria, "free trade", LGTBQ, etc .... then clearly you have NOT YET managed to grasp the concept of "America", "Americans", or "American interests".

So, yet again: WHAT ARE THOSE AMERICAN INTERESTS THAT YOU KEEP BELLYACHING ABOUT? You keep using them as a justification for being a troll, but you... can't... quite... seem.to.even.explain what they are. Which I personally find damn peculiar for someone who claims to be so concerned about them!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SECOND

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 6:23 PM (P)

I should summarize for Signym: a particular American can have an American interest he follows for life, doing very well for himself. Then there are the vast majority, those unhappy Americans that never had a particular goal and because of that don't do well in a country that doesn't provide them with a goal. I don't believe there has been a real nationwide "American Interest" because it keeps changing arbitrarily with each new President's different personality. With Trump, the "American Interest" he is promoting gets ridiculously arbitrary, changing with his daily moods. Trump is Malcolm Reynolds: "I got no answers for you, Inara. I got no rudder. Wind blows northerly, I go north. That's who I am. Maybe that ain't a man to lead but they have to follow so you wanna tear me down do it inside your own mind."
www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=2&tid=14960&mid=208530#20
8530

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

REAVERFAN

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 6:28 PM (P)

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 6:33 PM (P)

Quote:
I should summarize for Signym: a particular American can have an American interest he follows for life, doing very well for himself. Then there are the vast majority, those unhappy Americans that never had a particular goal and because of that don't do well in a country that doesn't provide them with a goal. I don't believe there has been a real nationwide "American Interest"...

Then please, don't ever reference it again! Ever!

The minute you start yapping about "American interests" just give yourself a little mental zap, and zip your fucking lip (or, fingers as it were) m'kay?

BTW, I happen to believe that there ARE American interests ... needs and goals which tie MOST Americans together, that ONLY the American government can further. So I guess that makes me a better American than you. Altho that's a ridiculously low bar, seeing as how "America" is a concept that's meaningless to you.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SECOND

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 6:57 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The minute you start yapping about "American interests" just give yourself a little mental zap, and zip your fucking lip (or, fingers as it were) m'kay?

BTW, I happen to believe that there ARE American interests ... needs and goals which tie MOST Americans together, that ONLY the American government can further. So I guess that makes me a better American than you. Altho that's a ridiculously low bar, seeing as how "America" is a concept that's meaningless to you.

It is as if you have never heard of states such as Texas. Unlike the Federal government, the states have American interests that don't change arbitrarily with each new President. For example of arbitrary: When Bush was President, he had a plan to end Social Security. Obama had a different plan because he had affection for FDR's original plan. Bush was disaffected because he was following Herbert Hoover, who hated Social Security as a step toward Communism. What is the actual "America's Interest" in Social Security? FDR or Hoover? With Trump, nobody knows which side of S.S. he is on. It changes according to who last talked to him.
www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2011/04/07/how-george-w-bush-lost-pe
rsonal-accounts-for-social-security/#f3234ee494dd

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 7:02 PM (P)

Quote:
It is as if you have never heard of states such as Texas. Unlike the Federal government, the states have American interests that don't change arbitrarily with each new President. For example of arbitrary: When Bush was President, he had a plan to end Social Security. Obama had a different plan because he had affection for FDR's original plan. Bush was disaffected because he was following Herbert Hoover, who hated Social Security as a step toward Communism. What is the actual "America's Interest" in Social Security? FDR or Hoover? - SECOND

I don't believe there has been a real nationwide "American Interest"... - SECOND

Then please, don't ever reference it again! Ever! The minute you start yapping about "American interests" just give yourself a little mental zap, and zip your fucking lip (or, fingers as it were) m'kay? - SIGNY

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SECOND

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 7:13 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I don't believe there has been a real nationwide "American Interest"... - SECOND

Then please, don't ever reference it again! Ever! The minute you start yapping about "American interests" just give yourself a little mental zap, and zip your fucking lip (or, fingers as it were) m'kay? - SIGNY

Signym, I guess you have decided to have amnesia. It was you who once upon a time talked about an American Interest. You wanted to discuss it, decide what it should be. I can see you don't live in America. You go talk to different Texans and you get completely contradictory interests. It is mathematically impossible to get a decision about which way to go, what the 50% plus 1 majority wants. There will be a dozen different ways, and not even 20% for any of them. The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I can do as I please. For those people that don't have clear goals, America can be a nightmare where they are always struggling. And then they die.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 7:33 PM (P)

Donald Trump Is a Pathological Liar

I would like to take this opportunity to remind you that everything Donald Trump says should be treated as a lie until proven otherwise.

This is not a joke. At this point, anyone who makes even occasional exceptions to this rule is wilfully being a chump.

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/07/donald-trump-is-a-pathological-
liar/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 7:40 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:Signym, when you write using the words "ours" or "America's interests" there is nobody at fff.net that believes, except maybe 1kiki logging in from a desk near yours somewhere East of Moscow and maybe that dumbass, white-trash, whiner/hick/alcoholic 6ixStringJack, that you are thinking of anything but Russia's interests. Except Russia does not have any interests. It is Putin that has interests. Stalin had interests. Khrushchev had interests. Russia's interests change whenever the top man changes. In America, that is not how it works, but Trump is trying to change that. There are 333,000,000 different interests. When you throw them all together, America talks of "America's interest", but it is really hundreds of millions, not at all like Russia. And especially not at all like Trump thinks America's interests should be identical to Trump's interests. That is the strong man system, the Russian system, the Chinese system, the North Korean system.

Because there are 333,000,000 interests in America, they don't want Trump to throw away all those alliances with the UK, Canada, Nato, Europe, etc. that millions of Americans made decades before Trump came along and decided he would remake everything as he pleased. And they don't want all those interests suddenly replaced by Putin's interests for Russia. What is so special about Russia that it should outweigh the entire rest of the world?

Russia is a crappy country poorly governed. Huge area, 144 million population, but economic activity less than Texas, where I am from. If you want to bring up Russia's nukes and rockets, Texas builds all American bombs at Pantex, in the Texas Panhandle. Texas launches rockets. Builds them, too. Has a manned space program. Texas produces more oil and natural gas than Russia.

If Trump wants to shove up the ass of all Americans a new American interest replacing all previous ones, he should make it Texas, not Russia.

I second second. Great line btw:

"there are 333,000,000 interests in America"

I always felt SIGNYM hounded us with "What are America's Interests?" because it was a directive from HQ. "Agent SIGNYM, you are to find out what their interests are so we can exploit them. Go now and do the shiny."

JO753

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 7:47 PM (P)

Wuns ugen Trump, hiz administration and supporterz hav a problem with the word 'clear'.

This time its the derivativ word 'clarify'.

He sed 'woud' during hiz pants down groveling next to Putin during the Helsinky press conferens, then a day later attempting to douse the firestorm he created, stated that he needed to clarify and ment 'woudnt'. (I'm sure you alredy no the detailz uv the main story, so I'm only tokking about the misuse uv the word here)

Saying you ment the oppozit iz not clarifying, it iz reversing, doing a 180, correcting, contradicting. To clarify iz to explain further or reword a statement that wuz ambiguous, uninformativ, missing key information, etc.

Even real reporterz are getting it rong, not just politicianz and Fox propagandists.

Clarify Example:

Trump: "He sed to turn over the nuke codez."

Pence: "WUT DO YOU MEAN, GODAMIT?! F&*%ING CLARIFY FOR ME!"

Trump: "Putin told me to giv him the launch codez for America'z entire nuclear arsenal or he will leak the video uv me having sex with 10 yir oldz from 1987."

Pence: "Are you going to do it?"

Trump: "Uv course, dummy!"

Pence: "Alrity then. Wuts for lunch?"

And to put a further tangle in this particular string uv liez, he later turned hiz 180 into a 360 with tweets pushing hiz wich hunt/fake newz/deep state/no collusion fantasy.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

SECOND

Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:10 PM (P)

Trump is a sad, embarrassing wreck of a man

America’s child president had a play date with a KGB alumnus, who surely enjoyed providing day care. It was a useful, because illuminating, event: Now we shall see how many Republicans retain a capacity for embarrassment.

Precisely what did President Trump say about the diametrically opposed statements by U.S. intelligence agencies (and the Senate Intelligence Committee) and by Putin concerning Russia and the 2016 U.S. elections? Precision is not part of Trump’s repertoire so it is usually difficult to sift meanings from Trump’s words. But in Helsinki he was, for him, crystal clear about feeling no allegiance to the intelligence institutions that work at his direction and under leaders he chose.

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly, Director of National Intelligence Daniel Coats and others might believe that they must stay in their positions lest there be no adult supervision of the Oval playpen. This is a serious worry, but so is this: Can those people do their jobs for someone who has neither respect nor loyalty for them?

We shall learn from special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation whether in 2016 there was collusion with Russia by members of the Trump campaign. The world, however, saw in Helsinki something more grave — ongoing collusion between Trump and Russia. The collusion is in what Trump says (refusing to back the United States’ intelligence agencies) and in what evidently went unsaid (such as: Putin ought to stop disrupting Ukraine, downing civilian airliners, attempting to assassinate people abroad using poisons, and so on, and on).

Americans elected a president who — this is a safe surmise — knew that he had more to fear from making his tax returns public than from keeping them secret. The most innocent inference is that his tax returns reveal that he has always lied about his wealth. A more ominous explanation might be that his tax returns demonstrate his incompetence as a businessman tumbling into unsavory financial dependencies on Russians. A still more sinister explanation might be that the Russians have something else, something worse, to keep him compliant.

The explanation is in doubt; what needs to be explained — his compliance — is not. Granted, Trump has a weak man’s banal fascination with strong men whose disdain for him is evidently unimaginable to him. And, yes, he only perfunctorily pretends to have priorities beyond personal aggrandizement. But just as astronomers inferred, from anomalies in the orbits of the planet Uranus, the existence of Neptune before actually seeing it, Mueller might infer, and then find, still-hidden sources of the behavior of this sad, embarrassing wreck of a man.

More at www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-sad-embarrassing-wreck-of-a-man/2
018/07/17/d06de8ea-89e8-11e8-a345-a1bf7847b375_story.html?utm_term=.cfd843c5bada

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Thursday, July 19, 2018 6:04 PM (P)

Well, fortunately I was busy yesterday and so I had to let this marinate for a while. Now that my aching back is keeping me from sleep (too much weed-digging I guess) I guess I'll answer this now ...

Quote:
Signym, I guess you have decided to have amnesia. It was you who once upon a time talked about an American Interest. You wanted to discuss it, decide what it should be. I can see you don't live in America. You go talk to different Texans and you get completely contradictory interests. It is mathematically impossible to get a decision about which way to go, what the 50% plus 1 majority wants. There will be a dozen different ways, and not even 20% for any of them. The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I can do as I please. For those people that don't have clear goals, America can be a nightmare where they are always struggling. And then they die.

So, SECOND, let me summarize for you!

The America that YOU want is an America that never recognizes common goals. An America where the inhabitants spend a lot of time fighting each other. Because a fractured America is perfect for you, since YOU get to exploit a lot of people!

That is the CLEAREST demonstration of the elite's POV ever posted on this site: A society based on every man for himself and God against all allows you to be predatory. All of your "virtue signaling" about the poor illegal alien, the poor poor, the poor internationalist was just that ... so much virtue signaling to cover up your entirely rapacious view of your fellow Americans and your completely disloyal view of America.

And, of course, there are people who are so stupid as to believe that your post represents "freedom". They post things like

Quote:
I second second. Great line btw: "there are 333,000,000 interests in America"

So here's a hint: There are NOT 333,000,000 interests in America, and I'm going to "unpack" your various statements to show how you've duped people into believing that you have THEIR interests at heart when in reality you hate most Americans and, really, only want to extract as much money as possible from them.

Quote:
Signym, when you write using the words "ours" or "America's interests" there is nobody at fff.net that believes, except maybe 1kiki logging in from a desk near yours somewhere East of Moscow and maybe that dumbass, white-trash, whiner/hick/alcoholic 6ixStringJack, that you are thinking of anything but Russia's interests.

LIBEL, trolling. Meant to diminish my argument without ever addressing its point.

Quote:
Except Russia does not have any interests. It is Putin that has interests. Stalin had interests. Khrushchev had interests. Russia's interests change whenever the top man changes.

What is "Russia"? What is "America"? Each is a nation-state of people bound by a common set of laws and policies. If you're saying that "the people" of each nation have "no interest" in their own national laws and policies, then you're whack-a-doodle, and anyone who buys into your (self-serving) POV is equally whack-a-doodle.

Quote:
In America, that is not how it works

In America, that's not how it works either, but YOU'RE trying to change all that; by promoting the idea that Americans have NOTHING in common and no interest in how our nation is run.

Quote:
There are 333,000,000 different interests.

There are approximately three sets of interests: the vast majority of the people, the "national elite", and the "international elite".

Quote:
When you throw them all together, America talks of "America's interest", but it is really hundreds of millions

Bull. I can predict with great accuracy what most men will have in their wallet. Similarly, I can predict what most people will agree is the

SECOND

Thursday, July 19, 2018 6:27 PM (P)

Trump said that if Montenegro got aggressive with Russia, then World War III would break out because the US would be obligated to defend it, thus dragging the US into a major war with Russia.

What Trump misses is that the US doesn’t have to defend Montenegro if that country starts a fight, only if it’s attacked. NATO is a defensive treaty. If you start an unprovoked war, that’s your decision, and no one in NATO has to help you at all.

So even if Montenegrins were, as Trump said, “very aggressive people” — whatever the hell that means — the US wouldn’t have to lift a finger to help them.

The fact that Trump doesn’t seem to understand that is beyond disturbing. If this were his first day in office, maybe it would be understandable. But it’s not. Trump has been in office for a year and a half. He’s met with NATO allies as a group not once but twice — including spending two days straight talking to them just a week ago.

There is no reason why he shouldn’t have that down pat at this point.

More about what Trump said on FOX at www.vox.com/world/2018/7/18/17585984/trump-nato-montenegro-russia-carl
son

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, July 19, 2018 6:34 PM (P)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

JJ

Thursday, July 19, 2018 8:49 PM (P)

Looks like Trumps Russian rest has gone way off the rails. Worst reset ever.

T

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Thursday, July 19, 2018 11:09 PM (P)

Putin gave Trump a soccer ball at their meeting in Helsinki - if he'd given him another one he would have finally had a pair.

THG

Thursday, July 19, 2018 11:49 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Putin gave Trump a soccer ball at their meeting in Helsinki - if he'd given him another one he would have finally had a pair.

OK now that's funny. In case you're wondering G I've had another problem with my gmail so here we go again. It's back to T. Good to be whole again.

THG

Friday, July 20, 2018 12:07 AM (P)

REAVERFAN

Friday, July 20, 2018 1:51 AM (P)

Russia tests new nuclear weapons after summit with Trump
https://apnews.com/89f849d8f70c4a35873037e9bfefb976

Yeah, Blumpy's really got Pooty running scared!

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Friday, July 20, 2018 1:54 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

Shep Smith Calling out Trump video

He seems like one of the few with a brain at Fux and not afraid to use it. I wonder how much longer he will work there! Guess he's on when Trump is napping. If enough Fox talking heads said this kind of thing (honesty) he'd be out in less than a year.

THG

Friday, July 20, 2018 2:12 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

Shep Smith Calling out Trump video

He seems like one of the few with a brain at Fux and not afraid to use it. I wonder how much longer he will work there! Guess he's on when Trump is napping. If enough Fox talking heads said this kind of thing (honesty) he'd be out in less than a year.

Agreed, although Chris Wallace seems honest. Still his approach to a topic and how he will discuss it is that of someone on the right.

T

SECOND

Friday, July 20, 2018 2:58 AM (P)

Trump on Wednesday took the extraordinary-for-Trump (though normal for a normal president) step of sitting for a conventional interview with a non-propaganda television station, taking questions from CBS News’s Jeff Glor. And while the performance narrowly addressed the core issue — Trump’s on-again, off-again refusal to say that Russian hacking in the 2016 election happened and was bad — it mostly served to underscore how profound a crisis America faces.

Trump was evasive and ignorant, relentlessly dishonest, and at turns belligerent and weirdly passive — all in an interview that lasted less than eight minutes. It’s clear that he is either covering up some kind of profound wrongdoing or else simply in way over his head and incapable of managing the country’s affairs. It’s hard to say which one is worse, but neither is acceptable.

The interview transcript with comments at
www.vox.com/2018/7/19/17589186/trumps-chris-glor-cbs-interview-transcr
ipt

Maybe you don't want to click the link? I'll give you a sample of Trump double-talk explained:

Trump keeps undermining his own statements on hacking. There is by now a tired and well-established song-and-dance routine where Trump faces pressure to say that he agrees Russia was responsible for the hacking and that Russian-backed hacking is bad, only to take it back later. With Glor, Trump provided his best performance of the week — affirming all the basic verbal formulas that congressional Republicans want to hear in order to pretend there’s nothing odd happening.

But then he does something weird.

GLOR: "But he denies it, so if you believe US intelligence agencies, is Putin lying to you?"

TRUMP: "I don’t want to get into whether or not he’s lying. I can only say that I do have confidence in our intelligence agencies as currently constituted. I think that [Director of National Intelligence] Dan Coats is excellent; I think that [CIA Director] Gina [Haspel] is excellent. I think we have excellent people in the agencies. And when they tell me something, it means a lot."

Look, obviously if the US intelligence community is correct about its attribution of the hacking, then Putin is lying. And if you’re not sure whether Putin is lying, then you are not accepting the attribution of the intelligence community.

Intelligence has been wrong in the past, and it’s not per se illegitimate for the president to question its findings and demand more information. But Trump isn’t doing that. Instead, he’s acting more like a hostage than a president. He keeps reaffirming his faith in his appointees and the agencies they lead even while not affirming the substance of what they are saying.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Friday, July 20, 2018 3:53 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, fortunately I was busy yesterday and so I had to let this marinate for a while. Now that my aching back is keeping me from sleep (too much weed-digging I guess) I guess I'll answer this now ...

So, SECOND, let me summarize for you!

The America that YOU want is an America that never recognizes common goals. An America where the inhabitants spend a lot of time fighting each other. Because a fractured America is perfect for you, since YOU get to exploit a lot of people!

That is the CLEAREST demonstration of the elite's POV ever posted on this site: A society based on every man for himself and God against all allows you to be predatory. All of your "virtue signaling" about the poor illegal alien, the poor poor, the poor internationalist was just that ... so much virtue signaling to cover up your entirely rapacious view of your fellow Americans and your completely disloyal view of America.

Signym, you cannot be living in America and not know that American business is predatory.

And you clearly blamed me for that; you truly are crazy.

I am just one in 3.3 million people in top 1 percent. Blame the others. It is not me. It is definitely some of them, mostly the ones who voted for Trump.

The only way to slow down these crooked Republican-Americans is with government.

The Democrats started the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to stop the predation by Republican-Americans. But Trump wants to kill that bureau because it slows down the predation by Republican-Americans. I think that demonstrates Trump is a Scumbag.

The Bureau is one of many big differences between the GOP and Democrats. The GOP opposed the Bureau from the very start in 2010. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Financial_Protection_Bureau

Three stories about how the Republicans are out to help businesses steal more money from customers:

www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cfpb-student-loans-20180509-story.html
www.npr.org/2018/04/25/605835307/the-consumer-complaints-database-that
-could-disappear-from-view
www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2018/02/01/trump-administratio
n-strips-consumer-watchdog-office-of-enforcement-powers-against-financial-firms-in-lending-discrimination-cases/?utm_term=.51bad2163b5f

Signym, there is no doubt you are a Russian troll because of all the things you don't know about America, bad things that happen all the time because the GOP does not want to apply the brakes to the cheating businesses. But if you are an actual American, I apologize. I am so sorry you are crazy and ignorant and a defender of Trump.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Friday, July 20, 2018 4:31 AM (P)

Quote:
Signym, you cannot be living in America and not know that American business is predatory.- SECOND

I know that business is predatory, and YOU know that business is predatory, but our compatriots here on this board.... do THEY know how much you despise them for not standing up for their own interests?

Even when you (verbally) slap them in the face with that fact, all they do is roll over on their backs and widdle on their bellies.

Quote:
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

I have copied that into my signature as a reminder to everyone what you think of them, and America.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

THG

Friday, July 20, 2018 6:44 AM (P)

Just gotta laugh SECOND. Why, It's sig asking if they know how much you despise them when it's her kiki and Jack you are always showing to be morons.

T

REAVERFAN

Friday, July 20, 2018 9:37 AM (P)

How Putin's oligarchs funneled millions into GOP campaigns
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2018/05/08/putins-proxie
s-helped-funnel-millions-gop-campaigns

That's impossible! Fake news! These facts aren't real! Deep state! Conspiraceeeeeeee!

SECOND

Friday, July 20, 2018 5:28 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Signym, you cannot be living in America and not know that American business is predatory.- SECOND
I know that business is predatory, and YOU know that business is predatory, but our compatriots here on this board.... do THEY know how much you despise them for not standing up for their own interests?

Even when you (verbally) slap them in the face with that fact, all they do is roll over on their backs and widdle on their bellies.

Quote:
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
I have copied that into my signature as a reminder to everyone what you think of them, and America.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

You need to follow 1kiki's signature as an example. Use more red: SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

I am 66 years old. Except for my time in Vietnam (until I was shot down) and Austin (until I graduated from UT) I have lived in Harris County (the one with Houston) and know hundreds of people all their lives. Those people who were Nixon supporters are now Trump supporters. They were having problems with their lives in the 1970’s. They have the same problems today. Trump voters do not learn from experience how to solve problems. If this was a scientific survey, I’d need thousands of data points, rather than only hundreds from one county in Texas, but I have come to a conclusion: there is something seriously wrong with Trump’s supporters and defenders.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Friday, July 20, 2018 5:29 PM (P)

Shakespeare wrote about Scumbag rulers. Those plays are warnings about scumbag Trump:

From the early 1590s, at the beginning of his career, all the way through to its end, Shakespeare grappled again and again with a deeply unsettling question: how is it possible for a whole country to fall into the hands of a tyrant?

The institutions of a free society are designed to ward off those who would govern not for their country but for themselves, who take account not of the public interest but of their own pleasure. Under what circumstances, Shakespeare asked himself, do such cherished institutions, seemingly deep-rooted and impregnable, suddenly prove fragile? Why do large numbers of people knowingly accept being lied to? How does a figure like Richard III ascend to the throne?

Such a disaster, Shakespeare suggested, could not happen without widespread complicity. His plays probe the psychological mechanisms that lead a nation to abandon its ideals and even its self-interest. Why would anyone, he asked himself, be drawn to a leader manifestly unsuited to govern, someone dangerously impulsive or viciously conniving or indifferent to the truth? Why, in some circumstances, does evidence of mendacity, crudeness, or cruelty serve not as a fatal disadvantage but as an allure, attracting ardent followers? Why do otherwise proud and self-respecting people submit to the sheer effrontery of the tyrant, his sense that he can get away with saying and doing anything he likes, his spectacular indecency?

Shakespeare repeatedly depicted the tragic cost of this submission and the desperate, painful, heroic measures required to return a damaged nation to some modicum of health.

Shakespeare understood something that in our own time is revealed when a major event — the fall of the Soviet Union, the collapse of the housing market, a startling election result — manages to throw a garish light on an unnerving fact: even those at the center of the innermost circles of power very often have no idea what is about to happen. Notwithstanding their desks piled high with calculations and estimates, their armies of well-paid experts, they remain almost completely in the dark. Looking on from the margins, you dream that if you could only get close enough to this or that key figure, you would have access to the actual state of affairs and know what steps you need to take to protect yourself or your country. But the dream is a delusion.

More at https://longreads.com/2018/07/18/the-tyrant-and-his-enablers/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Friday, July 20, 2018 5:33 PM (P)

I aim to please! Now, with more red!

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SECOND

Friday, July 20, 2018 6:51 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I aim to please! Now, with more red!

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

Signym, do you realize that nothing says you are crazy more blatantly than including the name of your mortal enemy into your own signature?

Here is an article about a TV interview Trump gave on Wednesday. It was Trump at his worst:

The generous conclusion: Trump is too stupid to see that Russia is culpable for the hacking, too weak to stand up to his own intelligence agencies over it, too naive to understand the difference between Russian flattery and Russian assistance, and too clueless about foreign policy to even formulate an agenda for US-Russian relations. The less generous conclusions are, at this point, well known. But either way, the situation leaves America in the lurch, led by a president who can’t be trusted.

The generous conclusion: Signym is a Russian troll. The less generous conclusion, at this point, is well known: Signym is crazy.

More at www.vox.com/2018/7/19/17589186/trumps-chris-glor-cbs-interview-transcr
ipt

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, July 20, 2018 7:02 PM (P)

I think you guys and gals need to decide if Trump is an evil mastermind, or if he is an idiot.

You keep going back and forth on the issue whenever the wind blows, and I feel safe speaking for everyone that's not in your echo chamber when I say that I'm confused about where exactly it is you're coming from.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

REAVERFAN

Friday, July 20, 2018 7:13 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I think you guys and gals need to decide if Trump is an evil mastermind, or if he is an idiot.

You keep going back and forth on the issue whenever the wind blows, and I feel safe speaking for everyone that's not in your echo chamber when I say that I'm confused about where exactly it is you're coming from.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

He's absolutely an idiot.

His handlers are traitors.

SECOND

Friday, July 20, 2018 7:22 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I think you guys and gals need to decide if Trump is an evil mastermind, or if he is an idiot.

You keep going back and forth on the issue whenever the wind blows, and I feel safe speaking for everyone that's not in your echo chamber when I say that I'm confused about where exactly it is you're coming from.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Trump is Dr. Evil as played by Mike Myers. He is evil and funny at the same time.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

REAVERFAN

Friday, July 20, 2018 7:28 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:

I am 66 years old. Except for my time in Vietnam (until I was shot down) and Austin (until I graduated from UT) I have lived in Harris County (the one with Houston) and know hundreds of people all their lives. Those people who were Nixon supporters are now Trump supporters. They were having problems with their lives in the 1970’s. They have the same problems today. Trump voters do not learn from experience how to solve problems. If this was a scientific survey, I’d need thousands of data points, rather than only hundreds from one county in Texas, but I have come to a conclusion: there is something seriously wrong with Trump’s supporters and defenders.

This is a phenomenon we've seen in other fascist regimes. This article attempts to answer how and why it happens.

Yes, Trump is a narcissist. But it's literally millions of times worse than that.
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2018/7/9/1779169/-Yes-Trump-is-a-narcis
sist-But-it-s-literally-millions-of-times-worse-than-that?detail=emaildksp

Yes, the hallmarks of narcissism are painfully obvious in the president of the United States. The endless projection. The delusion of grandeur masking a paper-thin skin that punctures under the most benign criticisms. The nonstop gaslighting. But you know who else every single one of these attributes describes?

His base.

Trump’s deplorable, unmovable base are cult-like followers who could watch him shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue and still follow him, who give no shits that he is a serial sexual assaulter and defender of molesters, who get fleeced by his tariffs, by his family’s blatant disregard for the emoluments clause, and yet continue to vote for him even when it seemingly serves no interest of their own. Kool-Aid drinkers in the most macabre sense of the metaphor, they will follow him right to hell and never look back. None of it makes any logical sense, until you realize they are serving their own interests. Because none of the details matter if you see yourself in the narcissist delivering the rhetoric that feeds your own sense of narcissism.

Trump’s base is nothing more than a collection of narcissists, and I find this a lot more interesting than the fact that Trump himself is a narcissist. Trump simply represents the abhorrent qualities of his entire base.

All these qualities listed under the narcissistic personality could not only describe Trump, but the party that props him up, and let us count the ways. (The list was compiled from the traits listed in this article from Psychology Today on “Understanding the Mind of a Narcissist”; the parentheticals are my own.)

*Has a grandiose sense of self-importance and exaggerates achievements and talents. (White supremacy. Patriarchy. Rulers of every uterus everywhere. Neo-Confederates who still see the South as heroes of the Civil War.)

*Dreams of unlimited power, success, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. (The great Steinbeck paraphrased quote about the poor seeing themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires comes to mind. Even the slogan “Make America Great Again” smacks of a nostalgic, over-idealized dream of what this country should strive towards.)

*Believes he or she is special and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people or institutions. (cough literal Nazis are winning primaries cough)

*Requires excessive admiration. (Ever notice how white Republican men need constant validation they aren’t being repressed in some way, and how our media happily obliges, writing puff piece after puff piece over poor, misunderstood Trump voters?)

*Unreasonably expects special, favorable treatment or compliance with his or her wishes. (An unwillingness to compromise on even the most inarguable of issues—gun control’s a great example. Because, you know, a Republican’s freedom is more important than your children being safe from massacres that may or may not happen in their classrooms.)

*Exploits and takes advantage of ot

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Friday, July 20, 2018 7:45 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I think you guys and gals need to decide if Trump is an evil mastermind, or if he is an idiot.

You keep going back and forth on the issue whenever the wind blows, and I feel safe speaking for everyone that's not in your echo chamber when I say that I'm confused about where exactly it is you're coming from.

You don't give a sh*t, remember?

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