IRAN: Trump's war?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 9, 2026 08:29
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SIGNYM

Monday, May 13, 2019 10:46 PM

I don't think there is a thread on Iran. Pompous, Bolt-on, and Trump are cranking up their "war on Iran"*, possibly leading up to war itself.

The PNAC neocons have long targeted Iran for destruction, along with Syria, Iraq, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, and Lebanon. ("We’re going to start with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, then Libya, Somalia, Sudan, we’re going to come back and get Iran in five years". - General Clark)
https://journal-neo.org/2014/10/09/the-neoconservative-hit-list-iraq-l
ibya-and-now-syria-a-plan-for-global-u-s-military-supremacy/

Israel's long-term plan for the Middle East was to destroy Iraq, Syria, and Iran: "A Clean Break"
http://original.antiwar.com/dan_sanchez/2015/06/29/clean-break-to-dirt
y-wars/

Trump has spoken against Iran, even when he was campaigning. I don't know the source of his animus against Iran (probably "Javanka") but it runs counter to his desire to make nice with Russia, and also to not start new wars.

Recent events:

Withdrawing from the JPCOA
Fully sanctioning Iran, and threatening to sanction any other nation that deals with Iran
Letting the "Iran oil" exemptions expire (India, Japan, South Korea, Iraq, China, Turkey most affected)
Meeting with Iraq two weeks ago RE:Iranian influence (Pompous)
Meeting with the EU (instead of Putin) RE; Iran
Sending a carrier group to the Persian Gulf

In the meantime, several Saudi and UAE oil tankers have been sabotaged in the Persian Gulf. The blame will probably go to Iran altho this might have been a false flag to precipitate war.

So I wonder .. of all of the "regime change" operations that Trump has threatened and/or is engaged in (Venezuela, Syria - continuing, N Korea, Turkey, Iran, Russia)

Iran is the one nation that has a long history of being targeted by Armageddonists like Pompeo, neocons like Bolton, PNAC pro-Zionists like Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, and actual Zionists like Netenyahu, partners like Saudi Arabia, Trump appointees like Gen Flynn, Trump advisors like "Javanka", and even Trump himself.

Given the vast array of advisors, other nations, and appointees who have Iran in their sights, will Iran be the one exception to Trump's reluctance to involve the military in regime-change operations?

Or will he limit himself to CIA assets, mercs, spec-ops, proxies, cyber-, financial, ad economic warfare, and "show of force" repositioning of US ships?

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, May 14, 2019 6:32 AM

PNAC?
Javanka?

SIGNYM

Tuesday, May 14, 2019 6:45 AM

PNAC: Project for the New American Century, a neoconservative think tank which advocated total world dominance by the USA military. GWB appointed quite a number of PNAC signatories.
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/pnac.htm

"Javanka": The combined influence of Jared and Ivanka Kushner. Jared is an avid pro-Zionist. It seems to me that, for him, Israel's interests come to mind first, before the USA's.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

SIGNYM

Tuesday, May 14, 2019 8:59 PM

Well, shit ... just as night follows day ...

Quote:
US Accuses Iran Of Attack On Saudi Tankers

Update: Just as everyone with half a frontal lobe had expected, the WSJ reported late on Monday that according to an initial U.S. assessment, "Iran was likely behind the attack" on the two Saudi Arabian oil tankers and two other vessels damaged over the weekend near the Strait of Hormuz, a U.S. official said, a finding that, whether confirmed or not, will certainly inflame military tensions in the Gulf and likely result in a global proxy war that drags in the US, China and Russia. Oh, and that would be the Persian Gulf for those wondering, not the Gulf of Tonkin, which is where another famous False Flag naval incident occurred.

Furthermore, as we predicted would happen on Sunday, this "official assessment", was the first suggestion by any nation that Iran was responsible for the attack and follows a series of U.S. warnings against "aggression" by Iran or its allies and proxies against military or commercial vessels in the region. Some more details from the WSJ:

The U.S. official, who declined to be identified, didn’t offer details about what led to the assessment or its implications for a possible U.S. response. The U.S. has said in the past week that it was sending an aircraft carrier, an amphibious assault ship, a bomber task force and an antimissile system to the region after it alleged intelligence showed Iran posed a threat to its troops.

“If they do anything, they will suffer greatly. We’ll see what happens with Iran,” President Trump said while meeting with Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orban at the White House earlier on Monday.

The assessment, predictable from a mile away, squares perfectly with CIA veteran Mike Pompeo's warning from just two days before the alleged attack, in which he said that "The regime in Tehran should understand that any attacks by them or their proxies of any identity against US interests or citizens will be answered with a swift and decisive US response,” the US Secretary of State wrote in a statement warning that Iran should not mistake US “restraint” for a “lack of resolve,” and criticizing Iran for “an escalating series of threatening actions and statements in recent weeks."

MORE AT https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-05-13/sabotage-attacks-saudi-tanke
rs-stoke-fears-war-accident

Originally reported by https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-oil-tankers-attacked-before-enterin
g-persian-gulf-11557725971?mod=hp_lead_pos7

Now, I know that y'all not so much into foreign policy, but I suggest that you get on the phone to the WH and tell them to tell Trump to end our endless wars, or email

https://www.whitehouse.gov/get-involved/write-or-call/

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

SIGNYM

Monday, May 20, 2019 11:16 PM

For all the time some people spend pissing and moaning about Russia's supposed influence on Trump, it seems they could spend a few moments pissing and moaning about Israel's and Saudi Arabia's outsized effect

Quote:
Iran Slams Trump's "Genocidal Taunts" As "Team B" Concocted Threats
Soon after reportedly meeting with national security advisor John Bolton at the White House Sunday afternoon in the wake of a lone rocket being launched toward the US embassy in central Baghdad's protected 'Green Zone', President Trump provocatively warned via Twitter: "If Iran wants to fight, that will be the official end of Iran," and added, "Never threaten the United States again!"

Iran has fired back Monday morning, with Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif saying also via Twitter that mere "genocidal taunts" won't "end Iran".

Goaded by #B_Team, @realdonaldTrump hopes to achieve what Alexander, Genghis & other aggressors failed to do. Iranians have stood tall for millennia while aggressors all gone. #EconomicTerrorism & genocidal taunts won't "end Iran". #NeverThreatenAnIranian. Try respect—it works!
— Javad Zarif (@JZarif) May 20, 2019

Tehran's top diplomat said: Goaded by B_Team, Trump hopes to achieve what Alexander, Genghis & other aggressors failed to do. Iranians have stood tall for millennia while aggressors all gone. Economic terrorism & genocidal taunts won't "end Iran".

If Iran wants to fight, that will be the official end of Iran. Never threaten the United States again!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 19, 2019

The sarcastic "Team B" insult has been a familiar theme of Zarif's of late. He previously stated on May 17 when the Trump administration appeared to contradict itself — given both Bolton and Pompeo have appeared way out front of Trump when it comes to threat of war, and with Trump saying he "doesn't want war" — that With the B_Team doing one thing & Trump saying another thing, it is apparently the U.S. that doesn’t know what to think.

FM Zarif's "B-Team" seems a reference to John Bolton, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Saudi Crown Prince Bin Salman, based on some prior references Iran has made indicating those actually dictating the direction of White House foreign policy. Or more broadly, it's referencing the powerful Saudi and Israeli lobbies in Washington, which have long argued for a US military confrontation with Iran.

And generally the B-Team reference has been seen as pointing to the 'deep state' and its longtime outsized influence on policy direction. Thus perhaps for the first time in history a foreign enemy of Washington is acknowledging a president is being "goaded" by deep state interests over which he had little control. It's not the first time Iran has urged Trump to resist these voices.

Trump has denied being at odds with his own top aides and cabinet members, days ago framing what appeared to be policy confusion as merely a strategic attempt at sowing unpredictability: "at least Iran doesn't know what to think," the president tweeted last Friday at the end of a week of military build-up in the Persian Gulf and soaring tensions.

Going into this past weekend, it appeared de-escalation and a general calming of tensions was on the horizon as Trump seemed to distance himself from Bolton's usually charged rhetoric.

However, the Sunday tweet put things right back where they started two weeks ago when Bolton first announced a heightened state of alert and deployment of a carrier strike group to the Persian Gulf, citing intelligence that US troops face attack by Iran and its regional allies.

Is Trump merely playing to 2020? Trump's retweeting of the below makes it appear so.

God Bless President Trump--- Iran's so called leaders must think they're dealing with Bush or Obama. #MAG

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, May 21, 2019 12:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
For all the time some people spend pissing and moaning about Russia's supposed influence on Trump, it seems they could spend a few moments pissing and moaning about Israel's and Saudi Arabia's outsized effect

That would piss off people like the prince of Qatar who gave Bill Clinton a million dollars for his birthday.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

JAYNEZTOWN

Tuesday, May 21, 2019 1:39 AM

Donald J. Trump on Twitter: "If Iran wants to fight, that will be the official end of Iran. Never threaten the United States again!" https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1130207891049332737?s=21

SIGNYM

Tuesday, May 21, 2019 2:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Donald J. Trump on Twitter: "If Iran wants to fight, that will be the official end of Iran. Never threaten the United States again!" https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1130207891049332737?s=21]

Do you have any idea what this was in response to? Because my reading of it is that Trump is an idiot when it comes to Iran.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, May 21, 2019 3:00 AM

I don't buy for a second that there'll be any exchange of ordinance w/ Iran.

It's a Kabuki show , on a global sized stage.

While we're fretting over this big nothing, look for other events to take place. And get totally unnoticed.

My 2 cents.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, May 21, 2019 4:43 AM

At this point, wouldn't it be quicker to make a list of countries in the Middle East that we're not at war with?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

REAVERFAN

Tuesday, May 21, 2019 4:48 PM

Putin doesn't want the US to attack Iran.

Therefore, neither does Siggy.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, May 21, 2019 5:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Putin doesn't want the US to attack Iran.

Therefore, neither does Siggy.

Hitler loved dogs.

Therefore, anyone who loves dogs is a Nazi.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Tuesday, May 21, 2019 5:41 PM

Here Are 5 Times Donald Trump Warned Against Going to War With Iran
The president should scroll through his old tweets, rather than listening to John Bolton.
https://reason.com/2019/05/20/here-are-5-times-donald-trump-warned-aga
inst-going-to-war-with-iran/

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Now that Obama’s poll numbers are in tailspin - watch for him to launch a strike in Libya or Iran. He is desperate.
4:39 PM - Oct 9. 2012

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Don't let Obama play the Iran card in order to start a war in order to get elected-be careful Republicans!
11:43 AM - Oct 22, 2012

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
I predict that President Obama will at some point attack Iran in order to save face!
4:23 PM - Sep 16, 2013

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Remember what I previously said-Obama will someday attack Iran in order to show how tough he is.
12:44 PM - Sep 25, 2013

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Remember that I predicted a long time ago that President Obama will attack Iran because of his inability to negotiate properly-not skilled!
9:55 PM - Nov 10, 2013

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Tuesday, May 21, 2019 9:16 PM

Quote:
Putin doesn't want the US to attack Iran.
Therefore, neither does Siggy. - REAVERBOT

Hitler loved dogs.
Therefore, anyone who loves dogs is a Nazi.- SIX

HAHA! indeed.

I swear to god, REAVERBOT has only a few words in its vocabulary: "Nazi" "troll" and "Russia". Occasionally it veers off into new territory, like "Pppppppputin".

Hey REAVERBOT! How does it feel to be so stupid?

Here's the deal: I don't want the USA to attack ANYBODY. "Attacking" is an offensive (not defesnive) position, and violence IMHO should only be used in defense. You OTOH ... seem to want to attack everybody, not only at the national level but at the personal level.

So you're not only an abysmally stupid bot, you're an aggressive little bot too. Somebody should reprogram you.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Putin doesn't want the US to attack Iran.
Therefore, neither does Siggy. - REAVERBOT

Hitler loved dogs.
Therefore, anyone who loves dogs is a Nazi.- SIX

HAHA! indeed.

I swear to god, REAVERBOT has only a few words in its vocabulary: "Nazi" "troll" and "Russia". Occasionally it veers off into new territory, like "Pppppppputin".

Hey REAVERBOT! How does it feel to be so stupid?

Here's the deal: I don't want the USA to attack ANYBODY. "Attacking" is an offensive (not defesnive) position, and violence IMHO should only be used in defense. You OTOH ... seem to want to attack everybody, not only at the national level but at the personal level.

So you're not only an abysmally stupid bot, you're an aggressive little bot too. Somebody should reprogram you.

So, when you’re not being a troll you’re ball cupping 6? I think anyone would call that a steady decline.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, May 21, 2019 11:40 PM

Oh, lookie. More mindless insults by Captain Wonderful.

It must be Tuesday.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Wednesday, May 22, 2019 9:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Oh, lookie. More mindless insults by Captain Wonderful.

It must be Tuesday.

“...sure plays a mean pinball.”

Hardly mindless - basic observation.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, May 22, 2019 10:38 AM

Quote:
Oh, lookie. More mindless insults by Captain Wonderful. It must be Tuesday.- SIX

Hardly mindless - basic observation.- GSTRING

So, what do you think of war with Iran GSTRING? For? Against?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, May 22, 2019 3:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Oh, lookie. More mindless insults by Captain Wonderful. It must be Tuesday.- SIX

Hardly mindless - basic observation.- GSTRING

So, what do you think of war with Iran GSTRING? For? Against?

He's clearly waiting for Rachel Maddow to give him his opinion.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Thursday, May 23, 2019 9:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Oh, lookie. More mindless insults by Captain Wonderful. It must be Tuesday.- SIX

Hardly mindless - basic observation.- GSTRING

So, what do you think of war with Iran GSTRING? For? Against?

He's clearly waiting for Rachel Maddow to give him his opinion.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

So, GSTRING. War with Iran ... for or against?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, May 24, 2019 2:30 AM

A war with Iran would probably be an epic disaster for the entire Middle East. On the other hand, it would certainly make for better Summer tv than reruns.

SIGNYM

Friday, May 24, 2019 1:43 PM

GSTRING is such a weenie. He's apparently terrified of expressing an opinion because he might have to agree with me?

Geez, what a jellyfish.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Sunday, June 2, 2019 1:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't think there is a thread on Iran. Pompous, Bolt-on, and Trump are cranking up their "war on Iran"*, possibly leading up to war itself.

The PNAC neocons have long targeted Iran for destruction, along with Syria, Iraq, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, and Lebanon. ("We’re going to start with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, then Libya, Somalia, Sudan, we’re going to come back and get Iran in five years". - General Clark)
https://journal-neo.org/2014/10/09/the-neoconservative-hit-list-iraq-l
ibya-and-now-syria-a-plan-for-global-u-s-military-supremacy/

Israel's long-term plan for the Middle East was to destroy Iraq, Syria, and Iran: "A Clean Break"
http://original.antiwar.com/dan_sanchez/2015/06/29/clean-break-to-dirt
y-wars/

Trump has spoken against Iran, even when he was campaigning. I don't know the source of his animus against Iran (probably "Javanka") but it runs counter to his desire to make nice with Russia, and also to not start new wars.

Recent events:

Withdrawing from the JPCOA
Fully sanctioning Iran, and threatening to sanction any other nation that deals with Iran
Letting the "Iran oil" exemptions expire (India, Japan, South Korea, Iraq, China, Turkey most affected)
Meeting with Iraq two weeks ago RE:Iranian influence (Pompous)
Meeting with the EU (instead of Putin) RE; Iran
Sending a carrier group to the Persian Gulf

In the meantime, several Saudi and UAE oil tankers have been sabotaged in the Persian Gulf. The blame will probably go to Iran altho this might have been a false flag to precipitate war.

So I wonder .. of all of the "regime change" operations that Trump has threatened and/or is engaged in (Venezuela, Syria - continuing, N Korea, Turkey, Iran, Russia)

Iran is the one nation that has a long history of being targeted by Armageddonists like Pompeo, neocons like Bolton, PNAC pro-Zionists like Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, and actual Zionists like Netenyahu, partners like Saudi Arabia, Trump appointees like Gen Flynn, Trump advisors like "Javanka", and even Trump himself.

Given the vast array of advisors, other nations, and appointees who have Iran in their sights, will Iran be the one exception to Trump's reluctance to involve the military in regime-change operations?

Or will he limit himself to CIA assets, mercs, spec-ops, proxies, cyber-, financial, ad economic warfare, and "show of force" repositioning of US ships?

NOPE. It was Obama's War, all along. The entire Obamination Regime worked hard to create it.

I am copying here a post which Jongstraw used as his OP of another thread:

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
May 31, 2019

The Daily Beast reported Friday that former members of President Barack Obama’s administration are advising the Iranian regime.

As the Trump administration sent warplanes and an aircraft carrier to the Persian Gulf, a small group of former Obama administration officials reached out to their contacts in the Iranian government, including Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif. Their message to Iran: Don’t take Trump’s bait. Stay calm.

Conversations between former Obama officials and Iranian government officials have been ongoing since November 2016.

Th Obama alumni are also reportedly passing messages from the Iranian regime to congressional Democrats:

Three Obama officials who worked closely on the Iran nuclear deal, one of whom is still in touch with Iranian government officials, traveled to Capitol Hill to brief congressional Democrats about the situation. Those former officials said would not say if they passed information from Iranian government officials to members of Congress. Rather, they said they focused on educating members about their experience working with Iranian leaders and how Tehran reacts to economic pressure.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein is already known to have met with Zarif, and was seen with his contact page open on her cell phone.

Former Secreta

REAVERFAN

Sunday, June 2, 2019 1:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
For all the time some people spend pissing and moaning about Russia's supposed influence on Trump, it seems they could spend a few moments pissing and moaning about Israel's and Saudi Arabia's outsized effect

"Don't look over there, look over here!"

SIGNYM

Friday, June 14, 2019 12:37 AM

So.... can you say Gulf of Tonkin? Sure you can!

Quote:
U.S. Sees State Actor Behind Oil Tanker Attacks in Gulf Region

An attack on two oil tankers near the entrance to the Persian Gulf was likely done by a state actor, according to a U.S. official, heightening tensions over a potential military confrontation between the U.S. and Iran. Oil prices surged.

The incidents on Thursday, including an assault on a Japanese-operated vessel, were the second in a month to hit ships near the Strait of Hormuz chokepoint, through which about 40% of the world’s seaborne oil travels. They come as Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, a rare ally of both Donald Trump and Iranian leaders, visits Tehran in an effort to ease tensions.

A U.S. official said the government is confident it knows which country is responsible but declined to give more details. U.S. and Saudi officials have suggested they think Iran was behind a previous attack last month on ships in the region.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-13/oil-tanker-on-fire-
in-sea-of-oman-u-k-body-starts-probe?srnd=premium

Meanwhile REAVERBOT's head is still stuck up his ass. which is where he chooses to spend his time instead of in the REAL real world.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

SIGNYM

Friday, June 14, 2019 12:43 AM

Quote:
Update 6: And there it is...

The US has officially blamed Iran for Thursday's attacks, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told reporters during a Thursday press briefing.

Of course

Quote:
The secretary of state and longtime Iran hawk said Iran's unprovoked attacks are part of a campaign to escalate tension in the region and disrupt the flow of the international oil trade (if we can't be sell our oil, nobody can, would appear to be the logic). He also said that Tehran rejected Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's outreach for diplomacy.

The US is planning to raise concerns about Iran at the UN Security Council, Pompeo said.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-13/2-tankers-damaged-after-susp
ected-torpedo-attack-near-strait-hormuz-oil-soars

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

SECOND

Friday, June 14, 2019 1:25 AM

Trump wanted a war with Iran long before he was President:

In his 2011 book, Time to Get Tough, Trump stated, "America's primary goal with Iran must be to destroy its nuclear ambitions. Let me put them as plainly as I know how: Iran's nuclear program must be stopped–by any and all means necessary. Period. We cannot allow this radical regime to acquire a nuclear weapon that they will either use or hand off to terrorists."

On September 7, 2015, Trump said of the Iran nuclear deal, "If somebody was telling me about how bad the contract is and how they hate the country — how do you sign a contract like this? And that’s the least of it. The contract is a disaster in virtually every way, and one way that people haven’t even talked about: they have an attack clause. If anybody attacks them, we have to protect them. What happens if Israel attacks them? Nobody has been able to answer that question yet, including [Secretary of State John] Kerry."

On September 6, 2016, Donald Trump said that Iran was not a threat to the world until President Barack Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton began negotiating a nuclear deal with Iran, which made the country a "world power." He said, "If you take a look at Iran from four, five years ago they were dying. They had sanctions, they were being choked to death and they were dying. They weren't even going to be much of a threat. They didn't have anything going and now they're a power. Overnight, we've made them a power." He then called the nuclear deal "the highest level of incompetence."

https://ballotpedia.org/Donald_Trump_presidential_campaign,_2016/Iran

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, June 14, 2019 3:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Update 6: And there it is...

The US has officially blamed Iran for Thursday's attacks, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told reporters during a Thursday press briefing.
Of course
Quote:
The secretary of state and longtime Iran hawk said Iran's unprovoked attacks are part of a campaign to escalate tension in the region and disrupt the flow of the international oil trade (if we can't be sell our oil, nobody can, would appear to be the logic). He also said that Tehran rejected Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's outreach for diplomacy.

The US is planning to raise concerns about Iran at the UN Security Council, Pompeo said.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-13/2-tankers-damaged-after-susp
ected-torpedo-attack-near-strait-hormuz-oil-soars

Was that sarcasm? Or what?

REAVERFAN

Friday, June 14, 2019 5:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Putin doesn't want the US to attack Iran.

Therefore, neither does Siggy.

Hitler loved dogs.

Therefore, anyone who loves dogs is a Nazi.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

This is why everyone knows you're an idiot.

And a wannabe Nazi, but you're too weak.

REAVERFAN

Friday, June 14, 2019 5:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Putin doesn't want the US to attack Iran.
Therefore, neither does Siggy. - REAVERBOT

Hitler loved dogs.
Therefore, anyone who loves dogs is a Nazi.- SIX

HAHA! indeed.

I swear to god, REAVERBOT has only a few words in its vocabulary: "Nazi" "troll" and "Russia". Occasionally it veers off into new territory, like "Pppppppputin".

Hey REAVERBOT! How does it feel to be so stupid?

Here's the deal: I don't want the USA to attack ANYBODY. "Attacking" is an offensive (not defesnive) position, and violence IMHO should only be used in defense. You OTOH ... seem to want to attack everybody, not only at the national level but at the personal level.

So you're not only an abysmally stupid bot, you're an aggressive little bot too. Somebody should reprogram you.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

And this is why we know you'e a Russian troll.

Not a very bright one. That's why they assigned you to this teeny tiny site.

SIGNYM

Friday, June 14, 2019 10:33 PM

Quote:
The Japanese owner of the Kokuka Courageous, one of two oil tankers targeted near the Strait of Hormuz, said Friday that sailors on board saw "flying objects" just before it was hit, suggesting the vessel wasn't damaged by mines.

That account contradicts what the U.S. military said as it released a video Friday it said shows Iranian forces removing an unexploded limpet mine from one of the two ships that were hit.

The Japanese tanker was attacked twice Thursday, damaging the vessel and forcing all 21 crew members to evacuate.

Company president Yutaka Katada said Friday he believes the flying objects seen by the sailors could have been bullets. He denied any possibility of mines or torpedoes because the damage was above the ship's waterline.

THAT is called "evidence". Damage above the waterline rules out torpedoes and mines (unless someone has developed flying torpedoes and flying mines.) There was a report, almost immediately following the attack, that one of the ships was damaged above the waterline, which put the whole torpedo/mine scenario in question.

Quote:
He called reports of a mine attack "false."

Katada said the crew members also spotted an Iranian naval ship nearby, but didn't specify whether that was before or after the attacks.

The tanker survived the first attack, which hit near the engine room and was followed by another, damaging the starboard side toward the back.

Question: Were the damaged points both on the same side? Or on different sides?

Quote:
The U.S. military's Central Command said the video it released shows Iran's Revolutionary Guard removing an unexploded limpet mine from one of the tankers, suggesting Tehran sought to remove evidence of its involvement from the scene. Iran denies being involved and accuses the U.S. of waging an "Iranophobic campaign" against it.

The U.S. Navy rushed to assist the stricken vessels in the Gulf of Oman, off the coast of Iran, including one that was set ablaze Thursday by an explosion.

The operators of the Norwegian-owned MT Front Altair offered no immediate explanation of what happened to their vessel.

What the article fails to note is that Shinzo Abe, Japan's current PM, was IN IRAN when the Japanese vessel was attacked. Iran would have no interest in torpedoing (so to speak) their negotiations with Japan by attacking a Japanese ship. The timing just reeks of false flag.

This is very much like the chemical attacks in Syria: right after Obama drew a "red line" someone triggered a gas attack? Assad had nothing to gain from doing that.

Fortunately, the world seems to have become a lot more sophisticated lately about detecting these concoted events.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

SIGNYM

Friday, June 14, 2019 11:03 PM

Meanwhile Trump and Pompous are flogging the "Iran did it" line.

That Trump is going to take this us with the UN Security Council indicates that he isn't going to do anything about it except make political points with his Zionist contributor, Sheldon Adelson and the pro-Israel portion of his base, without pissing off his anti-war supporters. Possibly we will be treated to another dog-and-pony show al la Colin Powell, of grainy photos and random bits of metal (or something) which no one will believe, and any action will be voted down by Russia and China in the Securty Council. There will be people who believe, against all evidence, that Iran did it and that some previous action by the UN gives the USA the "right" to invade Iran, but let's hope that their idiocy doesn't rule the day.

There's a lot going on the the background. Supposedly, when Pompous went to talk to Putin about Iran many observers said Pompous emerged "pale faced". Obviously, I have no idea what was said in private, but smarter people than me have speculated that what Pompous heard was If you attack Iran we will arm your enemies: Imagine Iran with our Kaliber missiles and S-400 air defenses - any aircraft carrier or installation within 1000 miles can be destroyed ... or something like that.

I think that Trump will make a point that this event "proves" that Iran, or Russia, or even China, needs "further isolation" and will call for more unilateral sactions or more tariffs. This event might be multi-faceted goal: to raise oil prices (benefitting USA shale oil and Saudi Arabia, who need high oil prices a lot more than Russia), and to diss Russia and China ahead of the G20, before they get to diss us.

Not sure if you are aware but Trump threatened the Chinese with more tariffs if they don't show up for the G20. Now he says he doesn't care of they show up or not. HA! Xi just recently attended the St Petersburg Economic Forum, which was both unexpected and unheard-of. IMHO this means that Russia and China, rather than just independently breaking ties with the USA and hardening their economies against further USA-generated shocks, are now actively cooperating on melding China's New Silk Road with Russia's EAEU and excluding the dollar from Eurasian-bloc trade.

I'm just going to briefly mention Jim Willie's prediction of a "dual universe" world, in which trade and development occurs in two independent blocs: the "western" bloc and the Eurasian bloc. If the USD becomes excluded from Eurasian trade I'll bring it up in the "death of the dollar" thread.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

1KIKI

Saturday, June 15, 2019 1:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by REAVERFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Putin doesn't want the US to attack Iran.
Therefore, neither does Siggy. - REAVERBOT

Hitler loved dogs.
Therefore, anyone who loves dogs is a Nazi.- SIX

HAHA! indeed.

I swear to god, REAVERBOT has only a few words in its vocabulary: "Nazi" "troll" and "Russia". Occasionally it veers off into new territory, like "Pppppppputin".

Hey REAVERBOT! How does it feel to be so stupid?

Here's the deal: I don't want the USA to attack ANYBODY. "Attacking" is an offensive (not defesnive) position, and violence IMHO should only be used in defense. You OTOH ... seem to want to attack everybody, not only at the national level but at the personal level.

So you're not only an abysmally stupid bot, you're an aggressive little bot too. Somebody should reprogram you.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
And this is why we know you'e a Russian troll.

Not a very bright one. That's why they assigned you to this teeny tiny site.

1KIKI

Saturday, June 15, 2019 1:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
HA! Xi just recently attended the St Petersburg Economic Forum, which was both unexpected and unheard-of.

I've always thought that China was a fair-weather friend to Russia. So I was pretty cynical when I read reports that Xi and Putin had become allies, to all intents and purposes. I thought - just wait till China has to take some kind of hit to support or defend Russia. Then we'll see how far this really goes.

But then I read (in translation of course) the warm words Xi spoke - of mutual trust, friendship, and defense. They seemed to go FAR beyond the normally polite and non-committal Chinese officialdom-speak. They actually seemed to veer into an affirmative commitment.

Either XI has got the western talent of speaking totally meaningless words, or something significant happened.

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 15, 2019 1:58 PM

Quote:
Putin doesn't want the US to attack Iran.
Therefore, neither does Siggy. - REAVERBOT

Hitler loved dogs.
Therefore, anyone who loves dogs is a Nazi.- SIX

HAHA! indeed.
I swear to god, REAVERBOT has only a few words in its vocabulary: "Nazi" "troll" and "Russia". Occasionally it veers off into new territory, like "Pppppppputin".
Hey REAVERBOT! How does it feel to be so stupid?
Here's the deal: I don't want the USA to attack ANYBODY. "Attacking" is an offensive (not defesnive) position, and violence IMHO should only be used in defense. You OTOH ... seem to want to attack everybody, not only at the national level but at the personal level.
So you're not only an abysmally stupid bot, you're an aggressive little bot too. Somebody should reprogram you.- SIGNY

And this is why we know you'e a Russian troll. -REAVERBOT

Because I don't want my country to be attacking every other nation on the planet????

Quote:
Not a very bright one. That's why they assigned you to this teeny tiny site.- REAVERBOT

Really? What are YOU doing here??

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 15, 2019 2:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
HA! Xi just recently attended the St Petersburg Economic Forum, which was both unexpected and unheard-of.
I've always thought that China was a fair-weather friend to Russia. So I was pretty cynical when I read reports that Xi and Putin had become allies, to all intents and purposes. I thought - just wait till China has to take some kind of hit to support or defend Russia. Then we'll see how far this really goes.

But then I read (in translation of course) the warm words Xi spoke - of mutual trust, friendship, and defense. They seemed to go FAR beyond the normally polite and non-committal Chinese officialdom-speak. They actually seemed to veer into an affirmative commitment.

Either XI has got the western talent of speaking totally meaningless words, or something significant happened.

I've felt for a long time that the Chinese were keeping one foot in each camp and would jump whichever way they thought most beneficial. "opportunist" was the term that came to mind. But I think Trump has managed to convince Xi and his bloc in the Chinese Communist Party leadership that dealing with America is a losing proposition.

And now, I see the real utility of China's One Belt One Road.

Just let me say that I originally thought it was a giant make-work project: That the Chinese leadership had hitched the Chinese wagon to the USA's market, hoping to develop the Japan and South-Korean way. IMHO 2008 really took them by surprise; they really thought that western financialists had it all figured out and they hadn't expected such a sudden and thorough collapse of their major export market. So they decided to improve their internal market by raising the middle class, but their "loose money" policy (carried out by their extensive shadow-banking system) only managed to create a lot of uber-wealthy commodity speculators (iron, aluminum etc) in the coastal cities without touching the interior. So they switched to the OBOR/ New Silk Road ... building infrastructure in other nations creates a demand for their factories' output. They seemed to be starting projects almost at random ... a series of ports begun a decade ago (String of Pearls) in Malaysia and Pakistan etc, lately pipelines to Siberia (The Power of Siberia gas pipeline), hitching up the Trans-Siberian railway to Beijing, roads and pipelines through Xinjiang (western China) Afghanistan and Pakistan and hiving off into other directions, and (most recently) working with Russia on an Arctic sea route. It almost seemed as if they were starting a dozen projects with the idea that some - if not most- were going to fail. "Let a thousand flower bloom"... but only the strong survive.

But with Trump sanctioning Iran and (worse) having the naval power to threaten the Straits of Malacca - which for China is a chokepoint as bad as the Straits of Hormuz, if not worse - China may see itself as NEEDING routes and transport that DOESN'T go thru the Malaccan straits or the South China Sea, but absolutely depending on an unsanctionable land-based route to access oil from Iran; gas oil uranium and non-ferrous minerals from Kazahksta;, water gas and food from Russia etc. Of course they still need sea routes to Africa but it looks to me like they may be digging in, willing and able to give up their world-straddling access to minerals energy and markets if necessary, and sink into the Eurasian landmass. Most of those projects which looked like random make-work suddenly looks to me like they have real purpose and utility.

Anyway, I know this is somewhat far afield from IRAN, unless China openly defies American sanctions against Iran (or, more likely, openly defies them once those land-based routes and pipelines become operational) in which case IRAN suddenly becomes relevant.

The USA's response, as usual, is to try to provoke "regime change" in troublesome countries and, failing that, open invasion. But I think both Russ

1KIKI

Sunday, June 16, 2019 5:26 AM

Thinking about your post Signy - I think two things are going on.

1) Russia and China have been thrown into each other's arms for many years, and ... they're, finally, holding on tightly to each other. China has concluded there's no upside to dealing with the US on anything vital.

2) Trump has always had a hard-on for Iran. It was already in his campaign speeches, so this is not a new development. Combine that with Bolt-on and Pompous. And they don't seem to have learned from recent history - neither Syria nor Venezuela have so far worked the way they were intended. So I can't think of any brakes on aggressive US provocations re Iran.

WAY back when, before the 2016 election, I saw that the US might miscalculate with Russia, assuming that Russia would choose to endure an endless string of aggressions rather than risk retaliating and triggering an all-out confrontation. But there's an alternative and fearful scenario, which is that Russia might choose to respond in a limited nuclear way, that the US would have to endure, since no one wins an all-out nuclear war.

I apply the same thinking here, except Russia / China are on the same side, and it's over Iran, rather than Syria.

The problem is that the US isn't playing with a mental full deck. It seems like nobody here has rationally thought out the range of possibilities. (Either it's that, or they have and they have their little hidey-holes where they think they can all survive; and we're just so much expendable biomass.) Given that, I personally find it hard to predict what might happen. But I see it as a potentially fatal problem, to address in the next election.

SECOND

Tuesday, June 18, 2019 7:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

The problem is that the US isn't playing with a mental full deck. It seems like nobody here has rationally thought out the range of possibilities. (Either it's that, or they have and they have their little hidey-holes where they think they can all survive; and we're just so much expendable biomass.) Given that, I personally find it hard to predict what might happen. But I see it as a potentially fatal problem, to address in the next election.

1kiki, you should have kept your defining signature:
And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better? http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62864&mid=10775
50#1077550

An election that changes the leadership from Republican to Democrat won't fix what is wrong with American voters. 70 percent of Americans now favor the United States taking an active part in world affairs. Since @ChicagoCouncil polling on that question began in 1974, the only time that number has been higher was in 2002, just after 9/11.

Americans are just as bloodthirsty as they’ve ever been. All we need is a push from a demagogish president and we’re ready to bomb the crap out of anybody.

Promoting democracy, taking on Chinese aggression, promoting trade, fighting global poverty, and defending human rights — “the core activities of building a civilized global community” — Americans have never really cared much about that stuff. We’ll tolerate a fair amount of it here and there, and of course we were always happy to use it as an excuse for various Cold War depredations — or for bombing the crap out of our enemy du jour these days — but that’s about it. I love my country, but it’s silly to pretend that we’ve ever been anything we aren’t.

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/06/david-brooks-has-gotten-lazy/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Tuesday, June 18, 2019 8:04 PM

Trump has brilliantly cornered himself where he’s now demanding Iran abide by a deal he already reneged on.

Trump, already suffering from a serious credibility deficit with allies, is now in the awkward position of demanding that Tehran comply with an agreement Trump has not only derided, but pulled out of! “Administration officials found themselves Monday grappling with whether to press the remaining parties to the deal, including Britain, France and Germany, to demand that Iran stay in compliance,” the Associated Press reports. “They must also consider if such a stance would essentially concede that the restrictions imposed during the Obama administration, while short of ideal, are better than none.”

It’s almost like the previous administration weighed up the pros and cons and made a decision in the best strategic interest of the country. That feeling you have right now is nostalgia for competence.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Tuesday, June 18, 2019 8:22 PM

Trump prepares to bypass Congress to take on Iran

The Trump administration and its domestic political allies are laying the groundwork for a possible confrontation with Iran without the explicit consent of Congress — a public relations campaign that was already well under way before top officials accused the Islamic Republic of attacking a pair of oil tankers last week in the Gulf of Oman.

Over the past few months, senior Trump aides have made the case in public and private that the administration already has the legal authority to take military action against Iran, citing a law nearly two decades old that was originally intended to authorize the war in Afghanistan.

www.politico.com/story/2019/06/18/trump-congress-iran-1366756

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, June 18, 2019 8:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Trump prepares to bypass Congress to take on Iran

The Trump administration and its domestic political allies are laying the groundwork for a possible confrontation with Iran without the explicit consent of Congress — a public relations campaign that was already well under way before top officials accused the Islamic Republic of attacking a pair of oil tankers last week in the Gulf of Oman.

Over the past few months, senior Trump aides have made the case in public and private that the administration already has the legal authority to take military action against Iran, citing a law nearly two decades old that was originally intended to authorize the war in Afghanistan.

www.politico.com/story/2019/06/18/trump-congress-iran-1366756

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

The article continues...

In the latest sign of escalating tensions, National Security Adviser John Bolton warned Iran in an interview conducted last week and published Monday, “They would be making a big mistake if they doubted the president's resolve on this.” Acting Secretary of Defense Patrick Shanahan announced on Monday evening that the U.S. was deploying an additional 1,000 troops to the region for “defensive purposes.” And Secretary of State Mike Pompeo jetted to Tampa, home of Central Command, on Monday evening to huddle with military officials to discuss “regional security concerns and ongoing operations,” according to a State Department spokeswoman.

The developments came as Iran announced it was on course to violate a core element of its nuclear deal with major world powers, exceeding the amount of enriched uranium allowed under the agreement in 10 days unless European nations intervened to blunt the economic pain of American sanctions. And they came as U.S. officials promoted video footage and images showing what they say were Iranian forces planting explosive devices on commercial oil tankers.

Yet even as the president’s hawkish advisers have highlighted Iran’s alleged bad behavior, administration officials privately stressed that direct military action remained highly unlikely absent an Iranian attack on an American ship or an American citizen. The president, who campaigned against getting the U.S. bogged down in unnecessary foreign wars, is considered the primary internal obstacle to a counterattack, officials said, noting that Trump continues to press for an improved nuclear deal.

Trump on Monday de-emphasized the international significance of the recent tanker explosions in an interview with Time magazine — downplaying the Gulf of Oman's value to U.S. oil supplies and describing alleged Iranian acts of aggression as "very minor."

“If you look at the rhetoric now compared to the days when they were signing [the 2015 nuclear deal], where it was always ‘death to America, death to America, we will destroy America, we will kill America,’ I’m not hearing that too much anymore,” Trump told Time. “And I don’t expect to.”

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Tuesday, June 18, 2019 10:41 PM

Quote:
An election that changes the leadership from Republican to Democrat won't fix what is wrong with American voters.

You see, SECONDRATE, what your problem is? You think that words are disconnected from reality, which is why you're so careless with them.

Sometimes (when it suits you) you claim that people (voters) have no effect on policy. Then at other times (when it suits you) you lay blame for bad policies on the American voter.
So, which is it?
Neither you nor your favorite political party can fix this Iran problem (or indeed ANY problem) until they figure out this conundrum.

*****

But instead of waiting for you to figure this out on your own ... because that'll take, like, forever ... I'm going to tell you the lay of the land, as I see it.

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE NEARLY 100% PROPAGANDIZED. Just look at how you fell for that RUSSIA!RUSSIA! disinformation campaign. It told you what you wanted to hear: TRUMP IS BAD! TRUMP IS A TRAITOR! TRUMP SHOULD BE IMPEACHED, OR SOMETHING! Your (willing) buttons were pushed and pushed and pushed with a campaign of evidence-free hyperventilating paranioa, and it worked!

If you had any intellectual integrity at all, you'd be at least quietly admitting to yourself that you'd been stampeded off an intellectual cliff because you let your extreme hatred of Republicans get the better of you but, no, you continue to make the same mistake that you castigate other Americans for making. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AMERICANS WHO HAVE BEEN HOODWINKED INTO WANTING WAR WITH IRAN IS THE TARGET: YOU WANT WAR WITH RUSSIA INSTEAD.

****Americans are propagandized BECAUSE they really COULD change things, if they got off their brains and thought for a change.

But that just won't do for the people in charge: They want a stupefied public who'll stand in line for 10 hours to buy the latest iPhone or bend under the yoke while their standard of living is continuously eroded into poverty-level or support the latest war or buy into WHATEVER TPTB are "selling" that day. And so the corporate M$M and the tech-giant-controlled internet continues to feed people bullshit nonstop 24/7/365 ... everything from ads to movies to series to "news" is a completely fictionalized version of the world we live in ... not much reality to be found there.

REAVERBOT, SIT UP AND PAY ATTENTION!

This extends to the climate shift argument too. WHY does the government spew propaganda? WHY are people so abysmally ignorant of science or logic? (That includes YOU, my friend.) It's because it is being controlled by the monied interests that stand in the shadows.

So if you want to fix the problem, you have to fix the media. You have to get people used to being able to distinguish fact from disinformation, to ask key questions like cui bono?, to pay attention and think for more than three seconds at a time and believe me, Twitter and FB and Snapchat and Instagram aren't helping in that regard at all; I consider them to be part of the campaign to completely dumb down the population.

Quote:
People be Getting Dumber

https://spectator.org/people-be-getting-dumber/

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

SECOND

Tuesday, June 18, 2019 11:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
An election that changes the leadership from Republican to Democrat won't fix what is wrong with American voters.

You see, SECONDRATE, what your problem is? You think that words are disconnected from reality, which is why you're so careless with them.

Sometimes (when it suits you) you claim that people (voters) have no effect on policy. Then at other times (when it suits you) you lay blame for bad policies on the American voter.
So, which is it?
Neither you nor your favorite political party can fix this Iran problem (or indeed ANY problem) until they figure out this conundrum.

Conundrum? There is nothing confusing about this in the least bit.
Fact 1): so long as there are at least 41% of Senators from the GOP, they will be able to kill any legislation the GOP dislikes. It once was at least 34%, but a rule was changed in 1975.
www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Filibuster_Clotur
e.htm

Fact 2): If you reelect a Senator who screwed you over, you will get screwed again and again for the next 6 years. Senators and, especially, Representatives know they can screw the voters and still get reelected. The majority of voters never learn, quite clearly never understanding why their wishes are ignored. It is because the majority of voters are trivially fooled by a fast talking conman in politics or business or at work:
www.opensecrets.org/overview/reelect.php

Fact 3): If the majority of voters can be talked into a stupid war, America will fight stupid wars and spend too much on the Pentagon. Remember Iraq? The reasons for war were stupid and yet the majority of voters reelected their Senators, despite it being very predictable how that war would end:
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2002/11/the-fifty-first-state/302
612/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Tuesday, June 18, 2019 11:19 PM

SECONDRATE - So, the American voter CAN change policy.
Please don't bring up that whinge again about how they "can't". If you do, I'll remind you of your stated position.

Now, how do you explain why American voters so consistently vote against their own interests?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

SECOND

Wednesday, June 19, 2019 4:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECONDRATE - So, the American voter CAN change policy.
Please don't bring up that whinge again about how they "can't". If you do, I'll remind you of your stated position.

Now, how do you explain why American voters so consistently vote against their own interests?

They don't vote against their interests, at least they don't think they are. The bigger the gap between what they think will happen and what will predictably happen explains hundreds of millions of painful failures in America. I could go on-and-on about guys I know making decisions that predictably turn out disastrously wrong in business, even ending with bankruptcy. I tell them what will happen. When it happens, several years later, they never understand how I did it. It seems like magic! I had worked the figures on paper for them, showed them the estimated profit or loss, and they still don't believe I can predict their future. Somehow, they believe that God, or willpower, or luck, or working harder, with more passion, will make them a success. I cannot save them from their poor decisions which they feel are right and I predict are wrong.

I was actually looking at two movie scripts 4 weeks agos. The writer wanted to borrow $50,000 in a promissory note to be paid back either when a script sells in the next 6 months (but guaranteed to sell by July of next year!) or 10 years from now. I loaned the money at 0% interest, but I know how this story ends with failure. I didn't want to discourage the writer by telling her it will never sell because she would tell me I can't possibly know that. I gonna have to wait 10 years before I tell her the sad truth about her scripts. But maybe she will write other scripts, better ones, and those will sell in the next decade. Only then will I be repaid the $50,000. I hope for her success. I try not to think about her predictable failure.

I'll make a prediction about Trump's Iran War. It will be a more expensive fiasco than Bush's Iraq War. Will Trump go to war in his next term? That I can't predict. Trump is too scattered brained to know what he will do two weeks from today, let alone two years from now. He might not get reelected if the majority of voters think an Iran War is in Trump's future and, more importantly, the voters remember the Iraq War.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

REAVERFAN

Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:19 PM

REAVERFAN

Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:20 PM

1KIKI

Thursday, June 20, 2019 7:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Now, how do you explain why American voters so consistently vote against their own interests?

Quote:
Originally posted by SECOND:
They don't vote against their interests, at least they don't think they are. The bigger the gap between what they think will happen and what will predictably happen explains hundreds of millions of painful failures in America.

Americans are exceptionally heavily propagandized, with all sorts of unhelpful aphorisms like: you just need to believe in god and in yourself; or, if you have the right attitude, the things you seek will manifest themselves in your life; or, the US is a meritocracy, so if you've failed, it's because you're a failure.

Here's a few more: American 'exceptionalism'; or systematically calling the governments of elected leaders 'regimes'.

Remember this?

Quote:
The ... system of propaganda and censorship existed not so much for the purpose of spreading a particular message as for the purpose of making learning impossible, replacing facts with mush, and handing the faceless state a monopoly on defining an ever-shifting reality.

That's us.

Quote:
I could go on-and-on about guys I know making decisions that predictably turn out disastrously wrong in business, even ending with bankruptcy. I tell them what will happen. When it happens, several years later, they never understand how I did it. It seems like magic! I had worked the figures on paper for them, showed them the estimated profit or loss, and they still don't believe I can predict their future. Somehow, they believe that God, or willpower, or luck, or working harder, with more passion, will make them a success. I cannot save them from their poor decisions which they feel are right and I predict are wrong.

But then again, that's what they've been told all their lives. It keeps them from making rational evaluations.

Quote:
He might not get reelected if the majority of voters think an Iran War is in Trump's future and, more importantly, the voters remember the Iraq War.

But voting is far more complicated than running arithmetic on someone's dreams, which you claim to be so successful at.

Many people are tribal. For example, you, and your cohorts here. If republicans are your anti-tribe, then democrats must be your tribe. Your actions more than anything else reveal you to be deeply biased, and extremely aggressive to anyone not in 'your' tribe. YOU are not rational. You are tribal. And that's why you vote for democrats. Not because they represent YOUR interests (as you so frequently remind us), but because republicans are your 'out' group.

That tribalism keeps you, and your cohorts here, from evaluating 'your' tribe - democrats - rationally.

Do you want examples? Shall I point out the many, many problems I posted regarding Hillary, the DNC, and the platform? Her historic NEGATIVE ratings, which were well-publicized? The shenanigans that went in to shoe-horning her in with the same-old business-as-usual? And most especially, the fact that she limited her message to victim-groups?

Now, rationally, that would be enough to give pause. It should have given you pause.

But, again, voting's not rational, it's mainly tribal. I think what happened was, by defining the party so closely with individual victim groups, she failed to connect with the tribalism of the larger distribution of people. Hence, she lost in a number of states where people didn't identify with the tribes she claimed to represent.

BTW - I'll make a prediction. JUST LIKE the prediction I made in the last election, this one won't be about firing up the established tribe. It'll be about which group has the fewest people running way from it. Democrats should think about that. Because impeachment pitches well to the tribe, but not to people outside of it.

And if democrats don't do anything different, how

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, June 20, 2019 6:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:

Bernie Sanders couldn't dismantle a piece of IKEA furniture.

Funny, since AOC can't put a piece of IKEA furniture together.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 20, 2019 6:45 PM

Quote:
SECONDRATE - So, the American voter CAN change policy.
Please don't bring up that whinge again about how they "can't". If you do, I'll remind you of your stated position.
Now, how do you explain why American voters so consistently vote against their own interests?- SIGNY

They don't vote against their interests, at least they don't think they are. - SECOND

Well, give a prize to Captain Obvious! IF COURSE they don't think they are! Hardly anybody ever says ... I'm going to shoot myself in the foot ... or the heart ... because I just want to be a doofus!

Quote:
The bigger the gap between what they think will happen and what will predictably happen ... SECOND

Oh, like with you and Vietnam? [/snark]

Quote:
explains hundreds of millions of painful failures in America.- SECOND

Well, explain YOUR painful failure. It might help you to understand the painful failures of others.

Quote:
I could go on-and-on about guys I know making decisions that predictably turn out disastrously wrong in business, even ending with bankruptcy. I tell them what will happen. When it happens, several years later, they never understand how I did it. It seems like magic! I had worked the figures on paper for them, showed them the estimated profit or loss, and they still don't believe I can predict their future. Somehow ...

Yes, "Somehow".

Quote:
they believe

KEY WORD

Quote:
that God, or willpower, or luck, or working harder, with more passion, will make them a success. I cannot save them from their poor decisions which they feel are right and I predict are wrong.

More on that later. Another key word: Psychologists

Quote:
I'll make a prediction about Trump's Iran War. It will be a more expensive fiasco than Bush's Iraq War. Will Trump go to war in his next term? That I can't predict. Trump is too scattered brained to know what he will do two weeks from today, let alone two years from now. He might not get reelected if the majority of voters think an Iran War is in Trump's future and, more importantly, the voters remember the Iraq War.

Well, there you are: Hoping that we don't wind up in a predicable failure!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, June 20, 2019 6:50 PM

Quote:
explains hundreds of millions of painful failures in America.- SECOND

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Well, explain YOUR painful failure. It might help you to understand the painful failures of others.

Oh. I think at this point it's painfully obvious from Second's post history that he believes that he's never failed at anything in life and that he holds a monopoly on the truth and the right way to think about everything.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Thursday, June 20, 2019 7:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

That tribalism keeps you, and your cohorts here, from evaluating 'your' tribe - democrats - rationally.

Do you want examples? Shall I point out the many, many problems I posted regarding Hillary, the DNC, and the platform?

It is not tribalism. It is realism.

Signym, there are only two choices: Democrats or Republicans. The Green Party and Ralph Nader/Jill Stein are not the third choice. And the so-called "Independent" politicians are truly either Republican or Democrat. The "Independent" is a name change to confuse the voters, similar to the trickiness of Abe Lincoln running in 1864 as the candidate of the "National Union Party", rather than the Republican Party. "Independent" is bull. Your only decision is: Which party is the worst? Then vote for the other. If you wish, vote in the primary to pick the candidate, but don't expect that Bernie Sanders will be the Democratic Presidential candidate on the November 2020 ballot or Bill Weld will be the Republican candidate. It is only Democrat or Republican. There is no third choice that can win.

www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/05/05/bill-weld-2020-trump-226796

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Thursday, June 20, 2019 7:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Oh. I think at this point it's painfully obvious from Second's post history that he believes that he's never failed at anything in life and that he holds a monopoly on the truth and the right way to think about everything.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I have failed, but in same sense as Jeff Bezos. “Given a 10 percent chance of a 100-times payout, you should take that bet every time,” Bezos wrote in his very first annual letter (1997). “Failure and invention are inseparable twins. To invent you have to experiment, and if you know in advance that it’s going to work, it’s not an experiment.”

www.cnbc.com/2016/05/13/5-key-business-lessons-from-amazons-jeff-bezos
.html

Most people want a 99% chance of success at making a 10% return. That will keep you alive but not much is possible thinking like that.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, June 20, 2019 7:23 PM

lol

He's Jeff Bezos now.

Thanks for gracing us with your cow farts all over this forum that 10 people read everyday, Jeff.

Must be nice to have so much money that you don't have to do any work.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

REAVERFAN

Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Bernie Sanders couldn't dismantle a piece of IKEA furniture.

Funny, since AOC can't put a piece of IKEA furniture together.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Why do you think you could? I see no indication of any intelligence at all coming from you.

SECOND

Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol

He's Jeff Bezos now.

Thanks for gracing us with your cow farts all over this forum that 10 people read everyday, Jeff.

Must be nice to have so much money that you don't have to do any work.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

You voted for Trump because you are a dumb ass. I'd bet that next time you either don't vote, vote for a third party, or vote for Trump. Trump has been saying for years he wants a war with Iran. He even told you during his campaign. We might not get one because Trump has disorganized the Pentagon because he is a confused old man. Or we might not get one because starting a war with Iran before the election would interfere with him being elected. But who knows what Trump will do? He sure doesn't.

In his 2011 book, Time to Get Tough, Trump stated, "America's primary goal with Iran must be to destroy its nuclear ambitions. Let me put them as plainly as I know how: Iran's nuclear program must be stopped–by any and all means necessary. Period. We cannot allow this radical regime to acquire a nuclear weapon that they will either use or hand off to terrorists."

On September 7, 2015, Trump said of the Iran nuclear deal, "If somebody was telling me about how bad the contract is and how they hate the country — how do you sign a contract like this? And that’s the least of it. The contract is a disaster in virtually every way, and one way that people haven’t even talked about: they have an attack clause. If anybody attacks them, we have to protect them. What happens if Israel attacks them? Nobody has been able to answer that question yet, including [Secretary of State John] Kerry."

On September 6, 2016, Donald Trump said that Iran was not a threat to the world until President Barack Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton began negotiating a nuclear deal with Iran, which made the country a "world power." He said, "If you take a look at Iran from four, five years ago they were dying. They had sanctions, they were being choked to death and they were dying. They weren't even going to be much of a threat. They didn't have anything going and now they're a power. Overnight, we've made them a power." He then called the nuclear deal "the highest level of incompetence."

https://ballotpedia.org/Donald_Trump_presidential_campaign,_2016/Iran

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:50 PM

lol

The clowns in this thread are multiplying.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 20, 2019 10:45 PM

Quote:
Oh. I think at this point it's painfully obvious from Second's post history that he believes that he's never failed at anything in life and that he holds a monopoly on the truth and the right way to think about everything. - SIX

I have failed, but in same sense as Jeff Bezos. “Given a 10 percent chance of a 100-times payout, you should take that bet every time,” Bezos wrote in his very first annual letter (1997). ... Most people want a 99% chance of success at making a 10% return. That will keep you alive but not much is possible thinking like that.
- SECOND

SECOND, you could learn about Americans if you look into your own past, but - apparently- insight is just impossible for you.

According to you, you've made one horribly wrong choice in your life, which was volunteering for Vietnam. It was a choice a LOT of young men made, and for many it ended in death. That you escaped with a relatively minor disability was due to one thing: YOU GOT LUCKY.

Aording to you, you've made one great choice in your life, which was buying a crap piece of land/ mineral rights which might have oil or gas underneath it, and then riding an oil boom based on cheap money and endless loans, and it has been paying off ever since. And the reason why you got so rich is because YOU GOT LUCKY.

Unfortunately, you seem to think that because you made one good investment that paid off spectacularly now everything you think, feel, and do is golden. You're wise beyond belief. IN REALITY, you stray from reality quite often.

Take that piece of crap advice from Bezos: It only works if you are able to lose whatever you put up at risk. If you're living on the edge of survival, as many people are, you can't risk any of your time, or money, or resources because its loss would mean death. It is the UNREALISTIC advice given by someone who can afford to lose, and KEEP ON AFFORDING to lose, over and over and over again in low-probability ventures. It is the kind of fatuous advice that someone like you might give: Someone who is more than comfortably well-off, someone who got lucky, someone who already lives in a world that most people dodn't live in. In other words, its a piece of unrealistic crap.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 20, 2019 10:49 PM

In any case, we've strayed far from Iran. (I'll get into WHY Americans are so warlike later)

I see the American deep state has arranged another provocation, and that is sending a drone over Iran, which Iran shot down.

Yanno, it seems that every time Trump has an upcoming meeting (G20 in this case) where peace might break out between Trump and Putin, "something" happens. This has Bolt-on's fingerprints all over it.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

1KIKI

Thursday, June 20, 2019 11:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

That tribalism keeps you, and your cohorts here, from evaluating 'your' tribe - democrats - rationally.

Do you want examples? Shall I point out the many, many problems I posted regarding Hillary, the DNC, and the platform?

Quote:
Originally posted by SECOND:
It is not tribalism. It is realism.

"Realism" keeps you from recognizing your party's failings and trying to correct them?

Sure. Whatever.

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

WISHIMAY

Thursday, June 20, 2019 11:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:

... you’re ball cupping 6?

I hadn't heard that particular phrase before, but it's pretty apt here.
I like it.

1KIKI

Thursday, June 20, 2019 11:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

That tribalism keeps you, and your cohorts here, from evaluating 'your' tribe - democrats - rationally.

Do you want examples? Shall I point out the many, many problems I posted regarding Hillary, the DNC, and the platform?

Quote:
Originally posted by SECOND:
It is not tribalism. It is realism.

"Realism" keeps you from recognizing your party's failings and trying to correct them?

Sure. Whatever.

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

WISHIMAY

Thursday, June 20, 2019 11:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

The clowns in this thread are multiplying.

In Russia, physics obey OUR laws...

I think that's 6ix driving?? Or was that you holding the guitar in the trunk??

1KIKI

Thursday, June 20, 2019 11:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

That tribalism keeps you, and your cohorts here, from evaluating 'your' tribe - democrats - rationally.

Do you want examples? Shall I point out the many, many problems I posted regarding Hillary, the DNC, and the platform?

Quote:
Originally posted by SECOND:
It is not tribalism. It is realism.

"Realism" keeps you from recognizing your party's failings and trying to correct them?

Sure. Whatever.

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

1KIKI

Thursday, June 20, 2019 11:21 PM

SECOND suffers from rich person's insanity. They think that because they're rich, and life hasn't thrown them a problem they can't buy their way out of in the last 7 years (7 years being the average emotional impact of memory), that they must be unusually gifted and wise.

Unfortunately, it's an all-too common insanity. Just look at our politicians from BOTH parties.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Oh. I think at this point it's painfully obvious from Second's post history that he believes that he's never failed at anything in life and that he holds a monopoly on the truth and the right way to think about everything. - SIX

I have failed, but in same sense as Jeff Bezos. “Given a 10 percent chance of a 100-times payout, you should take that bet every time,” Bezos wrote in his very first annual letter (1997). ... Most people want a 99% chance of success at making a 10% return. That will keep you alive but not much is possible thinking like that.
- SECOND

SECOND, you could learn about Americans if you look into your own past, but - apparently- insight is just impossible for you.

You've made one horribly wrong choice in your life, which was volunteering for Vietnam. It was a choice a LOT of young men made, and for many it ended in death. That you escaped with a relatively minor disability was due to one thing: YOU GOT LUCKY.

You've made one great choice in your life, which was buying a crap piece of land/ mineral rights which might have oil or gas underneath it, and then riding an oil boom based on cheap money and endless loans, and it has been paying off ever since. And the reason why you got so rich is because YOU GOT LUCKY.

Unfortunately, you seem to think that because you made one good investment that paid off spectacularly now everything you think, feel, and do is golden. You're wise beyond belief. IN REALITY, you stray from reality quite often.

Take that piece of crap advice from Bezos: It only works if you are able to lose whatever you put up at risk. If you're living on the edge of survival, as many people are, you can't risk any of your time, or money, or resources because its loss would mean death. It is UNREALISTIC the advice given by someone who can afford to lose, and KEEP ON AFFORDING to lose, over and over and over again in low-probability ventures. It is the kind of fatuous advice that someone like you might give: Someone who is more than comfortably well-off, someone who got lucky, someone who already lives in a world that most people dodn't live in. In other words, its a piece of unrealistic crap.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

1KIKI

Thursday, June 20, 2019 11:25 PM

bumped as a reminder

Quote:
]Originally posted by SIGNYM:
In any case, we've strayed far from Iran. (I'll get into WHY Americans are so warlike later)

I see the American deep state has arranged another provocation, and that is sending a drone over Iran, which Iran shot down.

Yanno, it seems that every time Trump has an upcoming meeting (G20 in this case) where peace might break out between Trump and Putin, "something" happens. This has Bolt-on's fingerprints all over it.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

SECOND

Friday, June 21, 2019 5:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
SECOND suffers from rich person's insanity. They think that because they're rich, and life hasn't thrown them a problem they can't buy their way out of in the last 7 years (7 years being the average emotional impact of memory), that they must be unusually gifted and wise.

Unfortunately, it's an all-too common insanity. Just look at our politicians from BOTH parties.

1kiki, you got my psychology wrong. I could have easily gone from Houston's Veterans Hospital to Houston's Veterans Memorial Cemetery back in 1973, which makes the last 46 years all gravy on my mashed potatoes. If you want to psychoanalyze, try explaining Trump's "thinking" because it is completely unlike anything I would do:

Trump approves Iran strike, then backs off.
Senior officials say U.S. was set to retaliate over downed drone, but plan abruptly halted. It was not clear whether Trump simply changed his mind on the strikes or whether the administration altered course because of logistics or strategy. It was also not clear whether the attacks might still go forward. Trump reportedly cancels attack on Iran as US planes were in the air.

www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/trump-repo
rtedly-cancels-attack-on-iran-as-us-planes-were-in-the-air

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, June 21, 2019 6:08 PM

Second. You are rich. YOU are the enemy of the people.

You had better start building that panic room and digging that moat for your castle.

Things aren't getting any better and there are no indicators that show the only way for everybody to go is down.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Friday, June 21, 2019 6:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Second. You are rich. YOU are the enemy of the people.

You had better start building that panic room and digging that moat for your castle.

Things aren't getting any better and there are no indicators that show the only way for everybody to go is down.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I am opposed to Trump's Iran War schemes because he is cowardly, ridiculous, and dithering.

6ix, I know all about the poor getting poorer and the Trumps getting richer, and I oppose everything Trump and the GOP are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, June 21, 2019 6:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:

6ix, I know all about the poor getting poorer and the Trumps getting richer, and I oppose everything Trump and the GOP are:

That's only because, as I've suspected all along and have said several times, because you hate yourself.

Nobody can blame you.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Friday, June 21, 2019 7:51 PM

More like Trump told "senior advisors" to tell the media, "He was ready to pull the trigger... really really really ready... but he decided not to at the last second" knowing/thinking Iranian leaders would hear that and be scared and grateful. "Whoa! That was close!" But nobody believes Trump any more.

And how stupid would he be to start a war before 2020? Or let it get started by anyone? If he thinks it would help him he truly is delusional. Or more delusional.

SIGNYM

Friday, June 21, 2019 10:40 PM

SECONDRATE, why are you posting about income inequality in the IRAN thread? Can't you resist just shitting all over the board??

In any case, your charts are too old; they don'tshow the fulleffect of the "Obama years" in wealth gap, income gap etc. If you had chosen charts which at least extend to 2016, you would have presented a more objective picture. I've chosen to post a more complete picture here under MY PLATFORM http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=63022

Income Inequality Grew Faster Under Obama, According To One Measure

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

SIGNYM

Friday, June 21, 2019 10:49 PM

Quote:

SECOND suffers from rich person's insanity. They think that because they're rich, and life hasn't thrown them a problem they can't buy their way out of in the last 7 years (7 years being the average emotional impact of memory), that they must be unusually gifted and wise.

Unfortunately, it's an all-too common insanity. Just look at our politicians from BOTH parties. - KIKI

1kiki, you got my psychology wrong. I could have easily gone from Houston's Veterans Hospital to Houston's Veterans Memorial Cemetery back in 1973...

How is that in any way responsive to KIKI's post, or mine? You made a bad decision, you got lucky. You took a chance, you got lucky. But rather than understand how luck played an important role in your success, you believe that it's all you ... your prespicacity. Your persistence. Your bootstrapping yourself.

Then you despise everyone else for being "stupid".

It's like successful people everywhere: They like to think they are the authors of their own success, that they, and they alone, control their own destiny. Singers who believe that their success is due only to their talent and persistence. Movies stars who believe that they were due their popularity. Rich people who believe they know the secret to success.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

REAVERFAN

Saturday, June 22, 2019 6:46 AM

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 22, 2019 9:57 AM

Dr Doom (Nouriel Roubini) predicted the 2008 bust when everyone thought he was nuts, which is how he earned his nickname.

Quote:
Dr.Doom Warns Of Imminent Sino-American Bust-Up After G-20
Authored by Nouriel Roubini via Nepal24Hours.com,

The nascent Sino-American cold war is the key source of uncertainty in today’s global economy. How the conflict plays out will affect consumer and asset markets of all kinds, as well as the trajectory of inflation, monetary policy, and fiscal conditions around the world. Escalation of the tensions between the world’s two largest economies could well produce a global recession and subsequent financial crisis by 2020, even if the US Federal Reserve and other major central banks pursue aggressive monetary easing.

Much, therefore, depends on whether the dispute does indeed evolve into a persistent state of economic and political conflict. In the short term, a planned meeting between US President Donald Trump and his Chinese counterpart, Xi Jinping, at the G20 Summit in Osaka on June 28-29 is a key event to watch. A truce could leave tariffs frozen at the current level, while sparing the Chinese technology giant Huawei from the crippling sanctions that Trump has put forward; failure to reach an agreement could set off a progressive escalation, ultimately leading to the balkanization of the entire global economy.

JAW-JAW OR WAR-WAR?

Viewed broadly, there are three scenarios for how the situation might develop between now and the end of 2020, when the United States will hold its next presidential election.

One possibility is that Trump and Xi will find a truce or modus vivendi in Osaka, paving the way for a negotiated settlement toward the end of this year. On the trade front, the US wants China to buy more American goods, reduce tariff and non-tariff barriers, open more financial and service sectors to foreign direct investment, and commit to maintaining currency stability and transparency with respect to foreign-exchange data.

On technology, the US is demanding that China strengthen intellectual-property protections, cease making the transfer of technology to Chinese firms a condition of market entry for US (and other) companies, and crack down on corporate cyber espionage and theft. A temporary deal could include any of the above, with the US offering medium-term (through the end of 2020, and possibly longer) exemptions to Chinese tech firms that use US components, semiconductors, and software. This would leave Huawei severely constrained, but not dead in the water.

The second possibility is a full-scale trade, tech, and cold war within the next 6-12 months. In this scenario, the US and China would adopt rapidly diverging positions after failing to successfully restart negotiations (with or without a truce). The US would follow through with import tariffs – starting at 10% but increasing to 25% – on the remaining $300 billion worth of Chinese goods that have so far been spared. And the Trump administration would pull the trigger on Huawei and other Chinese tech firms, barring them from purchasing components and software from US companies.

China, meanwhile, would take steps to protect its economy through macro-level stimulus, while retaliating against the US through measures that go beyond tariffs (such as expelling American firms). Huawei might survive within the Chinese market, but its growing global business would effectively be crippled, at least for the time being.

Beyond trade and technology, this scenario also implies increased geopolitical and military tensions. The possibility of some type of conflict over the East and South China Seas, Taiwan, North Korea, Xinjiang, Iran, or Hong Kong could not be ruled out.

Finally, in the third scenario, China and the US would fail to reach a deal on trade and technology, but they would forego rapid escalation. Instead of plunging into a total trade and technology war, the two powers might ratchet up their conflict more gradually. The US would impose new tariffs, but keep them at 10%, while renewing only tempo

WISHIMAY

Saturday, June 22, 2019 10:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
1kiki, you got my psychology wrong. I could have easily gone from Houston's Veterans Hospital to Houston's Veterans Memorial Cemetery back in 1973, which makes the last 46 years all gravy on my mashed potatoes.

I'm not on here half as much as y'all.... What happened in 1973... and did you win the lottery or something?

I guess I never realized you are an old geezer

Hubbs wasn't even born 'til '74.

Who is older, you, Sig, or Kiki?

WISHIMAY

Saturday, June 22, 2019 11:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
More like Trump told "senior advisors" to tell the media, "He was ready to pull the trigger... really really really ready... but he decided not to at the last second" knowing/thinking Iranian leaders would hear that and be scared and grateful. "Whoa! That was close!" But nobody believes Trump any more.

No kidding. But it's just dumb enough his base will totally believe it. Can't beat the media into fellating him, might as well use it to entertain his Jerry Springer base...

WISHIMAY

Saturday, June 22, 2019 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

That's only because, as I've suspected all along and have said several times, because you hate yourself.

You really do have a delusion that everyone hates themselves, don't you??

I hate my health, and I hate being surrounded by goat-humping knuckle-draggers, but no one in this house hates themselves for who they are.

Maybe you should see a life coach or 12.

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 22, 2019 2:16 PM

Quote:
Iran And Trump On The Edge Of The Abyss
Authored by Alijah Magnier via EJMagnier.com,

Iran is pushing US President Donald Trump to the edge of the abyss, raising the level of tensions to new heights in the Middle East. After the sabotage of four tankers at al-Fujairah and the attack on the Aramco pipeline a month ago,

And fires set at Iranian oil ports, which the author fails to mention https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Explosions-Rock-Ira
ns-Largest-Port-As-Oil-Products-Catch-Fire.html

Quote:
and last week’s attack on two tankers in the Gulf of Oman, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC – now categorized by the USA as a terrorist body) yesterday shot down a US Navy drone, sending two clear messages. The first message is that Iran is ready for an all-out war, no matter what the consequences. The second message is that Iran is aware that the US President has cornered himself; the embarrassing attack came a week after Trump launched his electoral campaign.

The third is that Iran doen't give a fuck what Tump does or doesn't do, or what "deal" he offers. They have said so directly.

If you stab someone with a knife and then you say you want talks, then the first thing you have to do is remove the knife,”
“We are always in favour of diplomacy and talks ... But talks need honesty. Trump’s call for direct talks is only for domestic consumption in America ahead of elections ... and to create chaos in Iran.”
America will regret imposing sanctions on Iran ... They’re already isolated in the world. They are imposing sanctions on Iranian children, patients and the nation,”
“There will be pressure because of sanctions but we will overcome this with unity,” he said." - Rouhani

Quote:
According to well-informed sources, Iran rejected a proposal by US intelligence – made via a third party – that Trump be allowed to bomb one, two or three clear objectives, to be chosen by Iran, so that both countries could appear to come out as winners and Trump could save face. Iran categorically rejected the offer and sent its reply: even an attack against an empty sandy beach in Iran would trigger a missile launch against US objectives in the Gulf.

Iran is not inclined to help Trump come down from the tree he has climbed and would rather keep him confused and cornered. Furthermore, Iran would love to see Trump fail to win a second term, and will do everything to help oust him from the White House at the end of his mandate in 2020.

Trump has a history of reneging on past deals so that he can "negotiate" new ones. He always starts with "maximum pressure". Unfortunately, Bolt-on and Pompous also have a history of torpedoing any possible deal that Trump might be working on.

Quote:
Moreover, Iran has established a joint operations room to inform all its allies in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen and Afghanistan

But not Russia or China

Quote:
of every step it is adopting in confronting the US in case of all-out war in the Middle East. Iran’s allies have increased their level of readiness and alert to the highest level; they will participate in the war from the moment it begins if necessary. According to sources, Iran’s allies will not hesitate to open fire against an already agreed on bank of objectives in a perfectly organised, orchestrated, synchronised and graduated response, anticipating a war that may last many months.

Even iIndia ... INDIA ... is getting into the act by sending its warships to protect Iranian assets. Trump has soured Modi on working with America by sanctioning India's source of oil (Iran), by threatening sanctions on India if it purchases the Russian S-400 defense system, and by imposing tariffs on goods from India (June 1).

Quote:
Sources confirmed that, in case of war, Iran aims to stop the flow of oil from the Middle East completely, not by targeting tankers but by hitting the sources of oil in every single Middle Eastern country, whether these countries are considered allies or enemies. The

SECOND

Saturday, June 22, 2019 5:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
1kiki, you got my psychology wrong. I could have easily gone from Houston's Veterans Hospital to Houston's Veterans Memorial Cemetery back in 1973, which makes the last 46 years all gravy on my mashed potatoes.

I'm not on here half as much as y'all.... What happened in 1973... and did you win the lottery or something?

I guess I never realized you are an old geezer Hubbs wasn't even born 'til '74.

Who is older, you, Sig, or Kiki?

I am 67. What happened to me? Helicopter crash in Vietnam. Before that I learned something that remains true today: Americans, and especially Republicans, either voters, military officers, or politicians, don’t understand how to efficiently win a war, with the fewest dead on both sides. If Vietnam had been a massively multiplayer online role-playing game, the Republicans playing it, from President even down to colonels and captains, had chosen the most asinine game strategies. (I’m a relative of General Sherman and had opinions before volunteering about how to fight to win a civil war.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tecumseh_Sherman

What about Trump? What mistake is he making playing a MMORPG called America Rules the World?

Ivo Daalder explains in a book: The Empty Throne - America's Abdication of Global Leadership
www.publicaffairsbooks.com/titles/ivo-h-daalder/the-empty-throne/97815
41773851/

1) What's inside the book that might explain Trump and Iran?

Donald Trump wagered that the United States could secure the benefits of the world it created without bearing the burdens of leading it. That bet was unlikely to pay off. The world that America created after World War II was not inevitable. It was the result of conscious policy choices made in the pursuit of a vision of how cooperation and leadership, rather than domination and competition, could benefit the United States. Consumed with the costs of that rules-based order, many of which he exaggerated, Trump couldn’t appreciate its continuing and far greater benefits. Working with friends and allies multiplied American power far more often than constrained it. As a result, Washington, more so than any other country, got to be the rule maker in international politics and, with that role, won the power to shape outcomes to its liking. By choosing to act alone rather than mobilizing others in common cause, Trump was waging war on the world America had made. He was also committing the very mistake he had accused his predecessors of making: taking on burdens others could have shared and squandering American power in the process.

2) Why is Trump acting belligerently toward Iran? Because his public wants it. In tweets Ivo Daalder throws out some statistics about Americans attitudes:

https://twitter.com/IvoHDaalder/status/1139637545875193858

70 percent of Americans now favor the United States taking an active part in world affairs. Since @ChicagoCouncil polling on that question began in 1974, the only time that number has been higher was in 2002, just after 9/11.

Support for the US "taking an active part” includes the military, too. Increasing majorities of Americans support keeping long-term military bases in South Korea (74%), Japan (65%), Germany (60%), and Turkey (53%). Nearly half say the same for a base in Poland (47%).

Support for using US troops abroad in certain situations is strong and increasing as well. Majorities of Americans say they would support using US troops to defend Baltic NATO nations against Russia and allies in Asia against North Korea.

In fact, over a broad range of specific scenarios, majorities or pluralities of Americans, both Democrats and Republicans, say they would favor the use of US troops abroad.

Trump is terrible at playing the game "America Rules the World". He keeps flopping around, not knowing what to do next, but he won’t quit playing because people are watching and Trump hopes that he will s

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, June 22, 2019 5:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

That's only because, as I've suspected all along and have said several times, because you hate yourself.

You really do have a delusion that everyone hates themselves, don't you??

I hate my health, and I hate being surrounded by goat-humping knuckle-draggers, but no one in this house hates themselves for who they are.

Maybe you should see a life coach or 12.

Well, since that wasn't directed at you at all, I would venture to guess that this is just another example of your blatant narcissism on display for everybody to see, Nilbog.

I'm glad for you that you don't hate yourself.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, June 22, 2019 5:44 PM

double post......

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 22, 2019 7:08 PM

Quote:
I am 67. What happened to me? Helicopter crash in Vietnam.

And that's where luck played an important role, for you, You volunteered for a meat grinder, and you came back alive

Quote:
. Before that I learned something that remains true today: Americans, and especially Republicans, either voters, military officers, or politicians, don’t understand how to efficiently ***win a war*** with the fewest dead on both sides. If Vietnam had been a massively multiplayer online role-playing game, the Republicans playing it, from President even down to colonels and captains, had chosen the most asinine game strategies. (I’m a relative of General Sherman and had opinions before volunteering about how to fight to win a civil war.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tecumseh_Sherman

What about Trump? What mistake is he making playing a MMORPG called America
rules the World?

Ivo Daalder explains in a book: The Empty Throne - America's Abdication of Global Leadership
www.publicaffairsbooks.com/titles/ivo-h-daalder/the-empty-throne/97815
41773851/

1) What's inside the book that might explain Trump and Iran?

Donald Trump wagered that the United States could secure the benefits of ***the world it created*** without bearing the burdens of leading it.

Now THAT'S a meaningless phrase! (1) The USA didn't "create" a world after WWII, because the USA didn't win the war (Russia did) and large parts of the world (Russia, China) were busy creating themselves, and (2) What is "leadership"? Does the author ever describe when "leadership" veers into violent domination?

Quote:
That bet was unlikely to pay off. The world that ***America created*** after World War II was not inevitable. It was the result of conscious policy choices made in the pursuit of a vision of how ***cooperation and leadership, rather than domination and competition, could benefit the United States***.

I'm sorry, but when I read phrases like that I kind of throw up in my mouth a little bit. The USA has been destabilizing, overthrowing, and invading nations quite regularly ever since WWII. Starting with the overthrow of the elected Iranian leader Mossadegh in 1953, https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/20/64-years-later-cia-finally-releas
es-details-of-iranian-coup-iran-tehran-oil/ replacing him with the Shah, who was a brutal tyrant (which is why the USA was thrown out in 1978 along with the Shah) and including arming the Indonesian dictator Suharto, who then went on to kill at least a half-million (nad possibly up to three million) people in a bloody genocide (1965, thank you Henry Kissinger), supporting the overthrow of elected President of Brazil, Goulart, in 1965 and replacing him with a USA-backed military dictatorship, and other coups and invasions too numerous to mention which are still going on today.

Quote:
Consumed with the costs of that ***rules-based order***

"Rules-based order"?? SERIOUSLY??? What is that dood smoking??

Quote:
many of which he exaggerated, Trump couldn’t appreciate its continuing and far greater benefits. Working with friends and allies multiplied American power far more often than constrained it. As a result, Washington, more so than any other country, got to be the rule maker in international politics and, with that role, won ***the power to shape outcomes *** to its liking.

Didn't the guy just contradict himself? Didn't he slide from "rules based order" to "the power to shape outcomes"? So now it's about "power" instead of "rules" and "order"?

Quote:
By choosing to act alone rather than mobilizing others in common cause, Trump was waging war on the world America had made. He was also committing the very mistake he had accused his predecessors of making: taking on burdens others could have shared and squandering American power in the process.

2) Why is Trump acting belliger

WISHIMAY

Sunday, June 23, 2019 3:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

TWITCHY, SECONDRATE, THUGR, and GSTRING who want war, war, and more war.

Only if it's with Russia.

And if you are playing the FF drinking game at home, she said the W word three times............................

Bottoms up!

It's so interesting you supported Trump because you thought he'd take us to war LESS, right?

WISHIMAY

Sunday, June 23, 2019 3:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:

I am 67. What happened to me? Helicopter crash in Vietnam. Before that

Ok, Jack Ryan.

From what height?
(PS, I like Amazon's series. I don't see why people complain about it.)

I suppose if I had to choose between crashing into a diesel hauler semi or helicopter, I'd still take the semi.... Still can't bend mah big toe all the way and if I step backwards too fast it'll twinge, but for the most part I'm good.

How many things did you break?

As for reducing body count... not surprising given that all the guys in this country have EVER been taught is how to UP the body count. It takes a woman to understand what it takes to make another person.

Reminds me of a Trek novel I read once where they put cadets on an empty space station and they have to play King of the Hill, take over the whole station...
At the end one person that "killed" (stunned) half the station was told they lost because you were supposed to take over the station with minimal casualties.

Maybe make it mandatory reading for all military

SECOND

Sunday, June 23, 2019 5:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

What about Trump? What mistake is he making playing a MMORPG called America rules the World?

. . .

Unfortunately, the ever-compliant media has been pushing hard in the opposite direction,and Trump is playing to an audience of warhawks and neocons and the ever-duped American public including TWITCHY, SECONDRATE, THUGR, and GSTRING who want war, war, and more war.

Americans cannot rule the world because elections do not often select both competent and emotionally steady people for president and congress. America might occasionally get lucky with a Lincoln but more likely to get a LBJ. Some unstable President will trick a majority of foolish Congressmen into allowing/funding a war which is lost (Korea/Vietnam/Iraq). Those military fiascoes are mixed with completely unnecessary crashes that a foolish Congress allowed to happen in the American economy (Financial crisis of 2007–2008) and it soon becomes evident to the world that America can’t even rule itself, once again, because its elected President and Congress are mentally slow, incompetent, quarrelsome and not really able to control even their own behavior, let alone the world. Trump is simply a recent example of such a President.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Sunday, June 23, 2019 5:27 AM

Quote:
TWITCHY, SECONDRATE, THUGR, and GSTRING who want war, war, and more war.- SIGNY
Only if it's with Russia. -TWITCHY

See? Just like I said: Totally indoctrinated.

Quote:

It's so interesting you supported Trump because you thought he'd take us to war LESS, right? -TWITCHY

Yep, it is interesting that I wanted to go to war less. Did you support Hillary because you thought she'd take us to war MORE?

God, you're stupid

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

SECOND

Sunday, June 23, 2019 5:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:

I am 67. What happened to me? Helicopter crash in Vietnam. Before that

Ok, Jack Ryan. From what height?
(PS, I like Amazon's series. I don't see why people complain about it.)

I suppose if I had to choose between crashing into a diesel hauler semi or helicopter, I'd still take the semi.... Still can't bend mah big toe all the way and if I step backwards too fast it'll twinge, but for the most part I'm good.

How many things did you break?

As for reducing body count... not surprising given that all the guys in this country have EVER been taught is how to UP the body count. It takes a woman to understand what it takes to make another person.

Reminds me of a Trek novel I read once where they put cadets on an empty space station and they have to play King of the Hill, take over the whole station...
At the end one person that "killed" (stunned) half the station was told they lost because you were supposed to take over the station with minimal casualties.

Maybe make it mandatory reading for all military

I wish it was heroic, with guns blazing and major battle. But the fact is we hit a tree at dusk that stuck up higher than all the others. Boom! I've got a left leg shorter than the other. I would have ended up working at Burger King as a manager, same as my father until he retired, but I cannot stand on that leg all day. I tried it at Burger King and had to give up. Then I went to the University of Texas at Austin so I can get a job where I sit to work. Much better paying.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Sunday, June 23, 2019 8:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't think there is a thread on Iran. Pompous, Bolt-on, and Trump are cranking up their "war on Iran"*, possibly leading up to war itself.

The PNAC neocons have long targeted Iran for destruction, along with Syria, Iraq, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, and Lebanon. ("We’re going to start with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, then Libya, Somalia, Sudan, we’re going to come back and get Iran in five years". - General Clark)
https://journal-neo.org/2014/10/09/the-neoconservative-hit-list-iraq-l
ibya-and-now-syria-a-plan-for-global-u-s-military-supremacy/

I think it's interesting that I started this somewhat anti-Trump thread when everyone else was haring and hounding after distractions like Trump taxes! or RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!

What I find fascinating is that when Trump FINALLY does something intelligent by calling off an airstrike on Iran, so called liberals are whining that Trump is "waffling"

What, they want to start another pointless Mideast war? Jeez people, make up your mind about what is good for America and take it from there, stop being so reactive.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, June 23, 2019 10:33 AM

Whatever Trump does is bad!!!

Do Right, Be Right. :)

WISHIMAY

Sunday, June 23, 2019 11:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

God, you're stupid

You have no damned clue when you're being trolled and I'M the stupid one????

I don't really look at a candidate's ideas about war because if war happens nothing I say or do will matter a damn. You should really try to get that. NOTHING you have to say on the subject will sway them one way or the other either. NOTHING you do will change ANYTHING that happens one iota.

N.O.T.H.I.N.G.

WISHIMAY

Sunday, June 23, 2019 11:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Whatever Trump does is bad!!!

It's so nice to see you learning. Warms the cockles of my soul.

WISHIMAY

Sunday, June 23, 2019 11:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
I wish it was heroic, with guns blazing and major battle. But the fact is we hit a tree at dusk that stuck up higher than all the others. Boom! I've got a left leg shorter than the other. I would have ended up working at Burger King as a manager, same as my father until he retired, but I cannot stand on that leg all day. I tried it at Burger King and had to give up. Then I went to the University of Texas at Austin so I can get a job where I sit to work. Much better paying.

I have always been glad that hubbs left the service before he would've been sent overseas. We have such bizarre luck, I think something like that would have taken him out. He tried to go for a degree in Criminal Justice and hated it and there was some weird snafu with paperwork so he ended up going for a tech degree. I think he would have washed out of police work after a while, he's just high stress as IS.. He wanted to drive trains, but you don't make enough to support a family on that here, and with the "sitting down narcolepsy" ( can no longer drive for more than an hour at a time without passing out) he has we are ALL much better off that he didn't...

I wanted to be a surgical tech, but realize now that with the arthritis I never could have stood in place for that long either. That, and the focusing that hard for hours on end. I could have in high school, but these days I drift too much... I'm really glad that I didn't go for college and change careers three times like the rest of my family... that are in debt up to their eyeballs and will be until the day they die...

Nice how you really have no control how your life ends up where it does, isn't it?

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, June 23, 2019 12:04 PM

College in America for a majority of the kids who go there is just a way to enslave them to the system for the rest of their lives.

Funny how college debt is one of the few debts that don't get erased in a bankruptcy, innit?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Sunday, June 23, 2019 1:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

I don't really look at a candidate's ideas about war because IF war happens nothing I say or do will matter a damn.

So, you don't care IF a candidate wants to start wars? You know, so you can avoid having to mutely endure those wars once they start?

Do you not know what 'planning ahead' means?

I've got nothing to say except

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

God, you're stupid

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

1KIKI

Sunday, June 23, 2019 1:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
I have always been glad that hubbs left the service before he would've been sent overseas.

Didn't stick it out.

Quote:
He tried to go for a degree in Criminal Justice and hated it

It was too hard.

Quote:
and there was some weird snafu with paperwork

He got disorganized and confused.

Quote:
so he ended up going for a tech degree.

He spent money on something he didn't pursue.

Quote:
I think he would have washed out of police work after a while

They would have kicked him out.

Quote:
He wanted to drive trains, but you don't make enough to support a family on that here, and with the "sitting down narcolepsy" ( can no longer drive for more than an hour at a time without passing out) he has we are ALL much better off that he didn't...

They might not have accepted him.

Quote:
I wanted to be a surgical tech

I never even tried because I was too much of a slacker and probably would have failed..

Quote:
That, and the focusing that hard for hours on end. I could have in high school, but these days I drift too much...

Because I have no discipline.

Quote:
I'm really glad that I didn't go for college

I probably would have failed.

Quote:
and change careers three times like the rest of my family...

I have no career at all. Or even a job.

Quote:
that are in debt up to their eyeballs and will be until the day they die...

As are we, but at least I don't have a job to go with the debt.

Quote:
Nice how you really have no control how your life ends up where it does, isn't it?

Yes, that's how I explain to myself how I ended up here.

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

/sarcasm

1KIKI

Sunday, June 23, 2019 2:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
College in America for a majority of the kids who go there is just a way to enslave them to the system for the rest of their lives.

Funny how college debt is one of the few debts that don't get erased in a bankruptcy, innit?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I for one am glad I went to college. But my degree(s) were in something useful which got me a good job, and I lived like a pauper rather than take on debt.

I've read that roughly a third of college students are food and housing insecure.

When I went to college, local landlords charged EXORBITANT rents because they knew they had a captive market. Which is why there was that truism of college students living in living rooms, porches, and unfinished attics and basements. Do they not do that anymore? There's also that portrayal of starving students eating Raman endlessly. In my day, a crap ton of powdered milk with a little bit of sugar mixed into whole milk was a (fairly) nutritious cheap meal for the whole day. Do students not know how to feed themselves for cheap anymore?

I'd very much like to look into the nit-picky specific details of student poverty today, and student debt today. I wonder how much is due to assumptions being made about luxuries being treated as necessities. Because people I've seen who go to college seem to expect a lifestyle that includes single-bedroom apartments, nice cars, I-phones, and a good supply of new clothes.

SIGNYM

Sunday, June 23, 2019 2:28 PM

OMFG KIKI, I laughed so hard it set off a coughing spell (from that bad virus or infection that I had) and my family thought I was choking. I don't know how you do it, but that was another hilarious post!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

SIGNYM

Sunday, June 23, 2019 2:29 PM

Quote:
I don't really look at a candidate's ideas about war because IF war happens nothing I say or do will matter a damn.

Yep, a real slacker.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

1KIKI

Sunday, June 23, 2019 3:04 PM

Anyway, back to Iran.

I speculate that a reason why Bolt-on and Pompous are in the administration is because Trump figured they would eagerly back his Iran plans. Which makes Trump backing-down even more unusual. Someone must have made him see the light.

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