Serenity Screener - spoilers

POSTED BY: KevinIanBeaumont
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 22:13
VIEWED: 27804
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KEVINIANBEAUMONT

Thursday, December 16, 2004 10:43 AM

If you don't like spoilers, avoid.

Seriously.

Please.

Right. I'm not going to list these in order of 'the good, the bad' etc. I'm just listing.

- There's no Book backstory. Sorry. I think, however, with words in the present it's verbally explained what Book's about.

- There's no Inara backstory. Sorry.

- The opening shot takes around 5 minutes, and is one of Whedon's longest steadycam shots yet. It takes you from Mal talking to Zoe, to Jayne, to Kaylee, to Simon, then it goes to back of Serenity and he talks to River. It's basically one big introduction to Serenity (the ship) and Serenity (the film).

- River and Mal have kick arse fight scenes. If you liked The Matrix, you'll f'cking love Rivers fights.

- River is a weapon, designed by the Alliance. She's a trained killer, and a bloody good one.

- One scene involving Mal will really, truly shock you all. You know Joss was saying he wanted to make Mal dark originally? Remember that. Joss actually meant very dark, and a bit disturbed underneath.

- The current workprint screener is 2 hours 5 minutes. This will probably be cut down based on an feedback - it's a tad long for mainstream release at the minute.

- You see Reavers on screen. The makeup is well done. Whedon doesn't keep them on screen long - it's quick cuts, going for scare.

- Swearing - 'shit' and such.

- It's so very, very funny.

- The final scenes of the movie. Think Reaver attack, River, Mal, guns, swords, kicking, punching, death... It doesn't stop.

- A (regular Firefly) character dies along the journey.

SHW

Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:04 AM

oh crap!

nothing I didn't expect in the way of story line..
I'd pretty much second guessed most of what was coming from reading this site obessivly since I got the DVD's.

But my Inner spoiler Whore is screaming 'WHO DIES'!

I haven't been this anxious about a spoiler since it was revealed that Spike was going to have his arms cut off by a crazy slayer.
I wanna know.. can you email me off site... my email is shw2424@aol.com
(this way, I can menatlly prepare myself for the death in september... and remember tissues for my unspoiled friends)

ZOID

Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:20 AM

KIB wrote:

Quote:
...A (regular Firefly) character dies along the journey.

I thought so. Damn it. Simon or Zoe? I'm betting Simon (since he was described as 'heroic' on another board). Schiesse.

Why is Joss such an evil bastard? What are we gonna do for female companionship on this board? With Simon gone, we'll be down to Mal-licious (who loves ya', baby?). All the other fems will vacate these premises, while Simon is being cinematically digested into his component proteins in the bellys of a couple hundred Reavers...

Still, it's possible that whichever character dies, that actor could still reprise the role in the second movie... (See P.S., below)

Rhetorical question: Is Mal's secret that he's actually been a Reaver himself? It would explain why he knows so much about them and can fight them so effectively (he dispatched the Reaver-gonnabe without breaking a sweat, in Bushwhacked).

Lonesomely,

zoid

P.S.
...as a Reaver's shirt or face mask. (zoid wonders if any of the Reavers carries a chainsaw?)

P.P.S.
Only zoid -- and perhaps PurpleBelly -- believes this.

PURPLEBELLY

Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:45 AM

Well, if Whedon tries to turn Summer Glau into Hollywood's answer to Ziyi Zhang, I suppose Simon's raison d'etre does become a little light.

Select to view spoiler:

Of course, there is only one answer to Ziyi Zhang - Yes, please

I have a few months to reconcile myself to the fact that Serenity is not Firefly. This is how spoilers become useful. Now, about Zoe's frocks ...

KEVINIANBEAUMONT

Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:36 PM

Quote:
Is Mal's secret that he's actually been a Reaver himself?

Going to answer this, as I feel it's important: No. There's no "odd" plot twists like that.

However - the plot twists and turns, if that makes sense.

Here's how to look at Serenity: it shouldn't be seen as another Firefly episode. It's big, it's epic, it's got a whole lot going on and a lot which changes. It's got, say, a season of TV compressed into 2 hours, but it delivers it in slick fashion.

You know those people who love Spike? Who want his babies? Then Joss/Marti (and co) have Spike try to rape Buffy. Spike had problems, it was always obvious, and it's hammered home in Buffy, yet we had FanBoys and FanGirls saying "OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE SPIKE TRIED THAT?!?!??!?! HOW RUBBISH IS THAT??!?!?!"

I'm not saying Mal goes mad, or tries to rape people. He doesn't. I'm just saying - Serenity is a film about 9 different characters journey (actually it's more like 13 in the film) in really, really bad circumistances. Don't expect them to all be the same as you love 'em all the time.

If you want to remain free, there's some really difficult choices to be made. Mal was a war leader. He makes difficult choices.

There's 2 scenes in the film which I think many FanBoys and FanGirls will really have issues with, but they need to be there.

Let's be clear on 1 thing, by the way. By all accounts, I think nearly everybody agrees: seperate from Firefly/Buffy/Angel/Whedon etc etc - this is a really, really good film in it's own right. Strong messages. Well delivered.

AURAPTOR

Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:00 PM

Not a word about Jayne, eh? No biggie. I'll not ponder too much on this and prob forget it come Sept. As for the dyin part...heck, Mal already has 'died', once ( War Stories ) heh heh.

Ok, enough of that.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

SNIPER

Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:28 PM

While I'm going to try and avoid some spoilers... who died? JediTrilobite@gmail.com

And, are there any really new characters that surface that might stick around?

PHOEBE

Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:27 PM

Goddamn my inability to avoid spoilers *sigh* If you could tell me who dies, I would love you forever. I can't spend another near 300 days spending half my time trying to figure out who the unlucky character is. Email me at thevoicesaretalkingtome@hotmail.com?

ETA. Ahh, any Simon/Kaylee-ness?

STAN

Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:51 PM

I too am a spoiler addict - I sign as Kaylees_boyfriend on the official browncoats message board. I am something of a silent Firefly fan.

I too would love as much spoilers as could be poured into an email: nobodyzfirehose@hotmail.com

that would be muchly appreciated :-)

NAKEDANDARTICULATE

Thursday, December 16, 2004 4:14 PM

dangit before it gets cooky with the email listings please email me too! give me any and all bits of info(including the fate of a characters' life--aicn called simon"heroic"--uh oh) my email is kevinconn@gmail.com

ps-if anyone has the movie script i will buy a copy

"Hamsters is nice."

UNCHARTEDOUTLAW

Thursday, December 16, 2004 5:32 PM

Yeah, I won't deny it...I need to know. I won't tell my wife, but it'll drive me nuts not knowing for the next 9 months. Email me if'n ya would nelsonsvw@sbcglobal.net

-Taylor

The Uncharted Outlaw!
"You can get a lot further with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word."
See my Firefly Store: http://www.cafepress.com/NorCalRiviera

BROWCOAT1

Thursday, December 16, 2004 5:33 PM

Well since this is clearly a spoiler thread....and only people who want to be spoiled are here.....i'll share.

I saw the movie and it is not the TV show.. I am a hardcore fan and i loved seeing our heros on screen. It was wierd, everything was there....Heros,ship,Joss speak,but it didnt feel like the show? Does thast make any sense?

As to who dies? well actually two of our heros die!!!! Yes two....but should I say who? Would it be an unstoppable force and get to people who dont want to be spoiled anyway?

The part about the whole cast being signed on for a trilogy? That would suprise me. They would have to go b ack in time or something and that sounds kinda dumb.

I will have to think a little more about how wise it would be to give it away.

NAKEDANDARTICULATE

Thursday, December 16, 2004 5:45 PM

browncoat1---p-please--tell--us---we are--dying h--he--here------oh, not literally dying,got it.

and the oscar for best overacting goes to---nakedandarticulate!

"Hamsters is nice."

SSJ4BLACKBELT

Thursday, December 16, 2004 7:34 PM

I wanna know who dies as well...somebody help me out!! ssj4blackbelt@aol.com

UNCHARTEDOUTLAW

Thursday, December 16, 2004 8:13 PM

BC1...seriously, if you just email the people who wanna know and not say how...it doesn't completely spoil things, now does it? :)

-Taylor

The Uncharted Outlaw!
Captain of Prosperity (99-K64)

See my Site:
http://www.geocities.com/norcalriviera
See my Firefly Store: http://www.cafepress.com/NorCalRiviera

FAITH5BY5

Thursday, December 16, 2004 8:33 PM

OMG!!! I'm a horrible horrible person... I need to know who dies... I can't deal knowing two people die without knowing who (even though I have my theories) please email me and tell me who dies at angelgrl1013@hotmail.com... Thank you so much... I'll love you forever, although I'm sure I'll start crying no matter who it is...

CHOSEN1

Thursday, December 16, 2004 8:35 PM

Yeah, I knew someone was going to die. Movies have become so predictable that the only way to shock people is by killing off a beloved. I read about all of those people who want to know who it is, but I don't. I'm so afraid its going to be Mal. I just don't think my little brown heart could handle that. Don't get me wrong, I would miss Simon, but I would mourn Mal. He's one of my favorite characters...ever.
I would even love him if he were dark and evil. As long as he doesn't turn into a rapist or baby killer, we're cool.

"Are you ready to die?"-Drake
"M----erf---er I was born ready."-Blade

HARDY

Thursday, December 16, 2004 8:51 PM

ok, how can one of the charakters die???

as we know, they all have signed for three movies...

Mal: "Everybody dies alone"

http://beam.to/firefly (deutsche fanpage)
http://48688.forum.onetwomax.de (deutsches forum)

PURPLEBELLY

Thursday, December 16, 2004 8:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chosen1:
As long as he doesn't turn into a rapist or baby killer

IIRC a previous spoiler

Select to view spoiler:

that's exactly what does happen

JEWELDIGGER

Thursday, December 16, 2004 10:55 PM

Is there any hot sex in the movie????

jeweldigger@hotmail.com

PHOEBE

Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Browcoat1:
Well since this is clearly a spoiler thread....and only people who want to be spoiled are here.....i'll share.

I saw the movie and it is not the TV show.. I am a hardcore fan and i loved seeing our heros on screen. It was wierd, everything was there....Heros,ship,Joss speak,but it didnt feel like the show? Does thast make any sense?

As to who dies? well actually two of our heros die!!!! Yes two....but should I say who? Would it be an unstoppable force and get to people who dont want to be spoiled anyway?

The part about the whole cast being signed on for a trilogy? That would suprise me. They would have to go b ack in time or something and that sounds kinda dumb.

I will have to think a little more about how wise it would be to give it away.

That's cruel and unfair... we would all have seen the movie if we had the chance. You're basically saying that because you got lucky you're going to wave the movie in front of our faces cruelly like a carrot in front of a running rabbit.

C'mon, be kind.... otherwise

RABIT

Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Quote:
Originally posted by chosen1:
As long as he doesn't turn into a rapist or baby killer
IIRC a previous spoiler
Select to view spoiler:
that's exactly what does happen

Which? Why? How? Huh?!?

*sigh*

Ya know, I'm interested in the spoilers, but I'm not interested in people playing games. If folks are interested in telling us, great - please do. If not, that's fine, also. No stress on that one.

But these little innuendoes and half-hints really are more annoying than interesting.

Just me, though - sorry if I'm annoyed, but I'm beating back a migrane and all this

just isn't helping... Oh, and this isn't really aimed at you, PurpleBelly; nothing personal.

Rabit

PURPLEBELLY

Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Rabit:
Oh, and this isn't really aimed at you, PurpleBelly; nothing personal.

Select to view spoiler:

While in flight from a reaver attack on a town, Reynolds kills a mother and her child to prevent them falling into reaver hands

Can't remember where I saw this, but it was more than once, and I don't frequent obscure sites so I assumed it must be fairly common knowledge. You know I tease by presenting ideas, not hiding them

JILTEDTOO

Friday, December 17, 2004 12:42 AM

On another thread I said I would answer any spoiler that someone wanted to know. Sooo since so many people want the answer here it is

Select to view spoiler:

Book dies when an Alliance ship attacks the town he is living in. He does shoot down the ship. He doesn't die quickly either, and Mal is the only one with him when he dies.

Also in a really really sad part of the movie, Wash dies after landing Firefly which destroys a large portion of the ship. It is a really shocking death, because Wash just saved everyone and says something really funny. Also you do not have time to focus on his death as everyone has to leave the ship quickly. It shocked me when Wash died, I blinked and he was dead.

If anyone has any other questions about the movie feel free to ask here or email me jiltedtoo@hotmail.com

JT

DEANNAMAY

Friday, December 17, 2004 12:48 AM

part of me wonders if this is to throw us all off. I mean, the final cut can be made right before the movie comes out, for us to know definitives this early seems more like a way to feel out the audience, or at least put out a few red herrings. I can hope, can't I?

JILTEDTOO

Friday, December 17, 2004 12:58 AM

One thing, the death of the second character does for the audience is really show that all bets are off. You really do not know if anyone else is going to die, because of the situation, its hard to believe that no one else will die. Some of the characters come really close.

I also believe that there are versions of the movie where other characters could have died in the same scene, because you really do not see much of some of the characters later in the movie.

I agree though, much in this movie will change before it is released.

Quote:
Originally posted by DeannaMay:
part of me wonders if this is to throw us all off. I mean, the final cut can be made right before the movie comes out, for us to know definitives this early seems more like a way to feel out the audience, or at least put out a few red herrings. I can hope, can't I?

JT

RABIT

Friday, December 17, 2004 1:12 AM

Many thanks, guys. The info is greatly appreciated.

Personally, I fully expect Joss to have filmed different versions, just to ensure that no one really knows what happens.

Rabit

RIVERGIRL

Friday, December 17, 2004 1:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Rabit:
Many thanks, guys. The info is greatly appreciated.

yes thanks for answering some of our questions

why was Inara off ship and how does she come back

do we get more River and Simon back story

Also, I can kill you with my brain.

STAN

Friday, December 17, 2004 1:26 AM

JT thanks heaps that was very much appreciated.

but it is terrible news:

Select to view spoiler:

Wash

is one of my favourite characters and the ship will definitly not be the same without him

Select to view spoiler:

poor Zoe too

and

Select to view spoiler:

with Book gone we will never learn the mysteries behind him, and we will never hear lectures about lepers, special hells and the likes

RIVERGIRL

Friday, December 17, 2004 1:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Rabit:
Many thanks, guys. The info is greatly appreciated.

yes thanks for answering some of our questions

why was Inara off ship and how does she come back

do we get more River and Simon back story

Also, I can kill you with my brain.

JILTEDTOO

Friday, December 17, 2004 1:32 AM

Anytime. If you have any other questions about the movie, feel free to ask.

And yes it was very sad. You could hear a pin drop in the theatre. I remember a girl yelling, "bastards" when it happened.

Quote:
Originally posted by Stan:
JT thanks heaps that was very much appreciated.

but it is terrible news:
Select to view spoiler:
Wash
is one of my favourite characters and the ship will definitly not be the same without him
Select to view spoiler:
poor Zoe too

and
Select to view spoiler:
with Book gone we will never learn the mysteries behind him, and we will never hear lectures about lepers, special hells and the likes

JT

CARDIE

Friday, December 17, 2004 2:19 AM

Golly!

Select to view spoiler:

The two characters that die are played by the two actors who weren't originally listed as being onboard for the movie. I wonder if their condition for signing on for the first movie was not being obliged to sign on for three, if three are made.

Cardie

PURPLEBELLY

Friday, December 17, 2004 9:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DeannaMay:
part of me wonders if this is to throw us all off.

Don't worry. By the time Universal has given the movie to the third post-production company we will discover that it's all a dream sequence and the Independents won the Unification War.

KEVINIANBEAUMONT

Friday, December 17, 2004 9:46 AM

Quote:
why was Inara off ship and how does she come back

do we get more River and Simon back story

- Inara - because she said she was leaving, pretty much.

- Yes, more River and Simon flashbacks.

There's resolution/more on Mal/Inara and Kaylee/Simon.

SHW

Friday, December 17, 2004 10:03 AM

Select to view spoiler:

Yes, poor Zoe w/ Wash being all 'corpsified and gross'.
Must admit that I *kinda* expected Wash to die. This is a Joss show and he and Zoe were *waaaay* too happy. But now I'm very interested in what happens to Zoe, esp if this proves to be a trilogy, will she become darker and more like the Zoe from the war?
I expected Book to go though, mainly because he's the oldest member of the cast and I can't see Ron Glass doing many action stunts ;)

I'm actually kinda happy about Mal being a little darker... the idea of Mal shooting a woman and child so they don't get tortured by Reavers strikes me as being *very* Mal.. and it also makes sense to me and makes me even more protective of him as a character.. if that makes any sense.. I think there may be some bizzare female troll logic at work here somewhere...

GAVIDA

Friday, December 17, 2004 11:54 AM

Oh boy, not easy to write something without spoiling, so I will just put it into spoilers to make sure nothing slips from me....

Select to view spoiler:

Hmm, after reading all this I really must admit that I am not even sure if Serenity II and III are of any interst for me then.

Seems to be some new kind of fashion in Hollywood to "shock" the fans with something like that.

I really hoped that Joss would come up with some fresh stylistic stuff for the Silver Screen, being such an innovative guy when it comes to stories and such. But instead it goes the same way that seems to be the new Hollywood trend.

Maybe I should just stick to the DVDs and ignore the rest

Gavida

KEVINIANBEAUMONT

Friday, December 17, 2004 1:20 PM

Regarding the above;

How can you judge the events of the movie without having seen it?

Earlier in the thread I refered to a FanBoy and FanGirl reaction to 2 of the things in the movie - character death is one of those.

It's not a Hollywood thing. It's a Joss thing. It's visible in all his work, and it would have been visible in Firefly if it was still on the air.

At the end of the day Firefly was about outcasts of society, on the run - Serenity is about outcasts of society, on the run from the middle of a war they are caught between.

PURPLEBELLY

Friday, December 17, 2004 1:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jiltedtoo:
Select to view spoiler:
... which destroys a large portion of the ship... everyone has to leave the ship quickly.

Serenity?

Select to view spoiler:

Gulp. They kill Serenity? Say it ain't so.

UNCHARTEDOUTLAW

Friday, December 17, 2004 1:42 PM

Wow. I mean, really, wow.

I'll definitely watch the movie and I'll definitely like it, but I'm worried my wife won't see what happens in the "big picture" sense.

-Taylor

The Uncharted Outlaw!
Captain of Prosperity (99-K64)

See my Site:
http://www.geocities.com/norcalriviera
See my Firefly Store: http://www.cafepress.com/NorCalRiviera

RABIT

Friday, December 17, 2004 2:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by UnchartedOutlaw:
I'll definitely watch the movie and I'll definitely like it, but I'm worried my wife won't see what happens in the "big picture" sense.

Yeah, me too. I'm not sure you're wife will see it.

No, seriously, my wife will also hate the fact that they kill characters. I was talking to her last night in a hypothetical sense (she hates spoilers

) and I mentioned that, hey, it's Joss! Anyone's fair game for being killed. She was very upset by that thought. I believe the quote was something like "get us to love these characters and then kill them off... That's just not right!"

Personally, I understand that someone is probably going to die - it's the nature of the lives they live. However, there are some characters I'd rather not lose...

Rabit

UNCHARTEDOUTLAW

Friday, December 17, 2004 3:23 PM

Zactly! Wife n' I used to watch eps of Buffy together back in those days. And I learned right quick that Joss has no limits when it comes to the mortality of most characters (although, don't get me started on the immortality of others) and I know she won't like it. My game right now's just to play dumb.

-Taylor

The Uncharted Outlaw!
Captain of Prosperity (99-K64)

See my Site:
http://www.geocities.com/norcalriviera
See my Firefly Store: http://www.cafepress.com/NorCalRiviera

GAVIDA

Friday, December 17, 2004 3:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by KevinIanBeaumont:
Regarding the above;

How can you judge the events of the movie without having seen it?

Oh, but I am not. I only said that probably II and III will not be my cuppa after what I read up until now.

I am definetly going to watch Serenity and make up my mind afterwards.

But from what I read so far I will probably switch to fanboy-denial

afterwards and stick to the DVDs of the show.

Gavida

PURPLEBELLY

Friday, December 17, 2004 3:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:
I am definetly going to watch Serenity and make up my mind afterwards.

Absolutely. I see no reason why we cannot have the Firefly TV series as was, the imagined directions of the TV series as wasn't and the Serenity movies as will be. All different, all worthwhile. That's a win, win, win.

JILTEDTOO

Friday, December 17, 2004 5:46 PM

Select to view spoiler:

The version of the teaser I saw did not have Mal shooting any women or Children. I do not know where that came from. In fact it is the opposite of what happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by shw:
Select to view spoiler:

Yes, poor Zoe w/ Wash being all 'corpsified and gross'.
Must admit that I *kinda* expected Wash to die. This is a Joss show and he and Zoe were *waaaay* too happy. But now I'm very interested in what happens to Zoe, esp if this proves to be a trilogy, will she become darker and more like the Zoe from the war?
I expected Book to go though, mainly because he's the oldest member of the cast and I can't see Ron Glass doing many action stunts ;)

I'm actually kinda happy about Mal being a little darker... the idea of Mal shooting a woman and child so they don't get tortured by Reavers strikes me as being *very* Mal.. and it also makes sense to me and makes me even more protective of him as a character.. if that makes any sense.. I think there may be some bizzare female troll logic at work here somewhere...

JT

JILTEDTOO

Friday, December 17, 2004 5:51 PM

Serenity

Select to view spoiler:

Yeah, engines ripped off, smashed with holes punched in it. They fix it, more or less, towards the end of the film.

On thing I forgot to mention is there is a really cool space battle scene with the Reevers and Alliance.

Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jiltedtoo:
Select to view spoiler:
... which destroys a large portion of the ship... everyone has to leave the ship quickly.
Serenity?
Select to view spoiler:
Gulp. They kill Serenity? Say it ain't so.

JT

PURPLEBELLY

Friday, December 17, 2004 6:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jiltedtoo:
Select to view spoiler:
Yeah, ... They fix it, more or less ...

Tough lady, I should have guessed

It's probably too early a cut, but any indication of the sound in space issue yet?

Select to view spoiler:

For the very sensitive. I'm amused by the new Battlestar Galactica which seems to be sufficiently embarrassed by sound-in-space to try to hide it within the music, but not courageous enough to abandon it

KEVINIANBEAUMONT

Friday, December 17, 2004 6:08 PM

The shooting women and children thing came as a pre-production rumour - it's not visible in the screener, so at a guess they either ditched it, or it was a made up rumour.

Re spoiler tags - is there really any need, given the horrifical spoiler level of this topic (you were warning, you bad people).

PURPLEBELLY

Friday, December 17, 2004 6:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by KevinIanBeaumont:
Re spoiler tags - is there really any need ...

But they're the stockings and sussies of this little perversion

CHOSEN1

Saturday, December 18, 2004 12:31 AM

I just heard that they killed off a main character. I honestly don't know how they would do that and have everyone in all three movies.

"Good, bad...I'm the one with the gun"

BRUISERSMOM

Saturday, December 18, 2004 12:41 AM

So, do Simon and Kaylee at least get it on?

And, why can't they just the fans happy with the movies? I'm not as excited to see this movie after what I've seen of promotional photographs and reports from people who've seen early versions of the movie, as I was when I first heard that they were making the movie. As the movie stands right now, I might go and see it once but I'm not going to see it multiple times and I'm not going to hunt down the premiere site to see the premiere.

I liked the show better, given what I've heard and seen about the movie.

I'm not going to follow Joss anywhere. I've never been that type of person.

BRUISERSMOM

Saturday, December 18, 2004 4:05 AM

I wondered if anyone else noticed that Joss's shows just get dark and serious after a while and that he gets rid of the really fun characters. I also wondered if anyone else is as turned off by Joss's shows when they make that turn as I am. I didn't buy the fourth season of Angel or the seventh season of Buffy because they were too dark and serious and now Mal is dark and Wash is dead in Serenity. Inara is gone and Book is dead. That only leaves Kaylee around to lighten things up. Does anyone else find a problem with that situation cropping up in a Joss show again?

TLACOOK

Saturday, December 18, 2004 4:19 AM

This thread and the turn it has taken is exactly the reason that Joss hates spoilers.

I saw the screening the other night and a portion of you are taking a few tidbits (THAT NO ONE SHOULD HAVE LEAKED) and completely jumping to erroneous conclusions.

Everything in the movie worked and it was for a damn good reason. Joss stuck to his vision for once and a studio supported it.

Geez I am glad all you softies weren't overseeing production. Seems like you all would have watered down Joss' vision the same way those assholes at Fox did.

Suck it up. This movie is one hell of a ride and it runs you through every possible emotion. I left it happy, sad, elated, angry and exhausted.

Sounds like good fiction to me.

Maybe a Disney flick would be more up your alley next time.

sheesh!

TERRYO

Saturday, December 18, 2004 5:32 AM

One reason I'm a spoiler junkie is that I need time to absorb the shock. I hadn't read the spoilers for Angel 5x22 and it ripped my heart out. If I know ahead of time, I can process it like a normal viewer. (Just for the record, the 2nd and 3rd time I watched, it only hurt like h*ll.)

So, let those of us who need to vent, vent. Taking it too seriously is just as bad as those who take focus groups seriously. We'll still plunk down our $$ for the movie and dvd.

And if Joss wants to play with our heads, then how can he complain if we need some psychological defenses?

terry

Quote:
Originally posted by tlacook:
This thread and the turn it has taken is exactly the reason that Joss hates spoilers.

I saw the screening the other night and a portion of you are taking a few tidbits (THAT NO ONE SHOULD HAVE LEAKED) and completely jumping to erroneous conclusions.

Everything in the movie worked and it was for a damn good reason. Joss stuck to his vision for once and a studio supported it.

Geez I am glad all you softies weren't overseeing production. Seems like you all would have watered down Joss' vision the same way those assholes at Fox did.

Suck it up. This movie is one hell of a ride and it runs you through every possible emotion. I left it happy, sad, elated, angry and exhausted.

Sounds like good fiction to me.

Maybe a Disney flick would be more up your alley next time.

sheesh!

TLACOOK

Saturday, December 18, 2004 5:42 AM

Terry,

I have no issue with those of you who feel a need to prepare or protect yourself.

My concern is the bile spewing forth from those who choose to make erroneous assumptions about the movie and about Joss.

Others may read it and get the wrong idea. To say that Joss does things like typical Hollywood is so wrong, it is laughable.

My point is that those who want picture perfect happy endings should go see a Lindsay Lohan flick and leave the tough stuff to the grown-ups.

I know this sounds cranky but, someone has to stand up for the integrity of what Joss is doing. It is his story and I have yet to see very many neatly wrapped up happy endings come from Joss.

What exactly are people expecting?

DEWSHINE

Saturday, December 18, 2004 2:09 PM

Um, guys....this is Sci-Fi. Anything can, will, and does happen. So we lose a character, or two, or more .... What is to keep the big blue hand guys from say cloning them?

Really?

try to keep an open mind and look at where it could go.

As for everything else, This is closer to what Firefly was supposed to be, Ron Glass was not signed up for a full season anyhow, his was an added character from the beginning. If by chance he signs on for more, Joss will find a way to include him...end of discussion.

Check out the improved planetslam.com
Gallerys, massage boards, Chat and more...

DARKJESTER

Saturday, December 18, 2004 4:13 PM

I too had worried about this possible reaction when I first heard about the movie. We (slightly rabid) fans have taken this show and allowed it to enter and change our lives. We love the characters, we can quote them at will, write fanfics about them, and feel like we KNOW them. Our dreams for the future of Serenity involved all 10 characters (Serenity herself included).

But this isn't our show, it's Joss' show. Anything he does with his creation is because it follows his vision for the show, whether we like it or not, understand it or not, or approve or not. We'll have to accept the changes being made to our personal views of the Firefly 'verse. Or we can stop being fans.

Will SERENITY be the best movie ever? No. But from all accounts it will be chock full of thrilling heroics, great dialogue, action, adventure, comedy, mortal peril, and tugs on our heartstrings. And I am still looking forward to seeing it whenever it is finally released.

EDIT: Wow! That didn't sound so pompous in my head....

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

PURPLEBELLY

Saturday, December 18, 2004 4:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DarkJester:
I too had worried about this possible reaction when I first heard about the movie.

I know what you mean, but I don't think we need to worry about its affect on the success of the movie. The trash-talking fans will still go to the movie and the new audience will be blissfully ignorant of the trash-talking. The carping sounds loud to us, but we have our heads in a very small bucket

... when did this become not funny?

NAKEDANDARTICULATE

Saturday, December 18, 2004 6:03 PM

as i said earlier i am a spoiler whore,and i am still very sad to see walsh and book die BUT i still believe that this movie will be amazing.this is exactly the reason why i love joss because each death has affected HIS characters they have grown,if buffy was till in high school by season 7 guess who would have not been watching it?--me incase some of you dont know.angel was still affected by doyles death in season 5.in my own life i have lost loved ones,and those losses have shaped me into who i am,who i still am becoming.we evolve every day, every second because that is what living is whether we believe it or not.so for those who have already said they arent going to see this or dont think it's gonna be good----ease off. the wheel never stops turning.

"Hamsters is nice."

BRUISERSMOM

Saturday, December 18, 2004 7:34 PM

I just read the posts after my post and am not persuaded to change my views.

I understand that Joss is driving the Firefly/Serenity bus but I'm not going to follow Joss down any road that he wants to take. I'll get off after my first viewing of the movie, if I don't like it and that's not a threat. It's a simple fact. I'm not one of those fans who will watch the movie 10 times just to see that another one is made. If I don't like Serenity, I will not care much if they make the rest of the trilogy because it's not a trilogy that I will want to see.

From what I've heard and seen of the movie so far, I'm going to be disappointed because of the ways in which it has changed the characters and the story line from what I came to love in the series.

Keep in mind, it was gorram F*X that shaped the series that a lot of us have come to love. I think that most fans are just upset with F*X for not promoting the show and for not sticking with it more. I didn't even know that it existed until I heard the commentary on an Angel DVD and I would have at least watched the pilot had I known that Joss had a another series on the air, since I liked Buffy and Angel.

I'll reserve final judgement for when I see the movie but right now, it's looking like I will end up sticking to my DVDs and some good fan fiction to supply my imagination about these characters and how their stories continue after Objects in Space.

So, do Kaylee and Simon get it on?

PURPLEBELLY

Saturday, December 18, 2004 8:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BruisersMom:
So, do Kaylee and Simon get it on?

I don't know but JiltedToo answers this in the other spoiler thread.

FORRESTWOLF

Sunday, December 19, 2004 12:25 AM

Jiltedtoo, can I ask you another question? Since I'm running an RPG campaign of my own, continuity with the Firefly 'Verse is important...

IS it a one-solar-system 'Verse, or do they clearly have FTL travel in the movie? Is that resolved?

AUTOPILOT

Sunday, December 19, 2004 12:25 AM

I was at the screening in Chatsworth and found this site while searching for reviews of the film to see what other people thought. I am a serious Whedon fan and a bigger Firefly fan who has been lurking here since Tuesday. I went with my girlfriend and another friend who had seen 2 episodes but not a fan. He gave the movie an 8 out of 10. I'll tell you this, anyone who is a fan will not be disappointed. It is everything you could ever imagine it being and a little more. What got me to post are some other posters questioning the film. It's already solid. If I have one complaint it would be that it feels like it has 2 or 3 endings but I can't imagine much being taken out. Maybe some nipping and tucking to cut it down 10min, but that is about it.

What one has to question is can the marketing people turn a solid film into a blockbuster? It has the potential to be a great success if they can get people who know nothing about it into theaters.

HELL'S KITTEN

Sunday, December 19, 2004 12:50 AM

The death of a character - or in this case, plural - doesn't surprise me. It's Joss. It's expected. In my mind, anyway.

What worries me is the difference between tv show characters dying and movie characters dying. In Joss' shows, you get the chance to fall in love with the characters week after week through the seasons, which makes their death really more... personal... emotional... I think is what I'm trying to say.

So, what I'd like to know from those of you who saw the screener is this:

If you had never seen Firefly, was there enough time and development through the film to get the audience to care enough about Wash or Book that their deaths could make the intended emotional impact? Or would they just be seen by the general public as meaningless cannon fodder, like the cliché red-shirted newbie on Star Trek away missions? Especially with so many characters to keep track of....

Maybe it'll be too hard for you to make an unbiased assessment. I'm sure I'll be crying like a little sissy girl, but those will definitely be biased tears because I've had the time to grow to love each of those characters. (Except Simon .)

I love Joss' work cuz, frankly, he can make it hurt so good. But I find the general (American) public not so wanting of that kind of thing, which makes me fear for the success of Serenity (even though it's gonna be the best movie ever ).

无党派人士

TERRYO

Sunday, December 19, 2004 2:30 AM

So, here's the weird thing - I agree and disagree with you.

I agree that it is Joss's story and that anyone who is a fan knows that he doesn't play fair with characters that we come to love.

Where I disagree with you is that when Joss looked at softening Firefly -well, Mal - or not getting it on the air, he compromised. And that is what current fans are going to expect to see on the screen. I think this is a reasonable expectation. If he can convince us that there are good reasons for this darker tone (on-screen), then we'll be okay with it. I guess you know whether or not that is the case. (Can I say I hate you and your fellow screener viewers? pure, sheer jealousy)

But to make it dark just because he can, well, storytelling is a two-way street. As much as it might frustrate him, that's the way it is, and not everyone is going to want to go down that path with him. It wouldn't be the first fandom to split because of a turn in creative direction but I'd hate to see it happen to Firefly.

I actually became a Joss fan because of
Buffy season 6, which is just about as dark as they come. I'm not opposed to him leaving me emotionally battered but there has to be some kind of pay-off. Which for Firefly (IMO), would be Mal getting closer to some kind of healing and this is not what I'm sensing from the spoilers.

So, as much as I love wisecracking characters, it's the ones like Book that the verse needs. MAL needed Book in the story we know so far, whether he admitted it or not. (Okay, I like Book just for himself, too. And his hair. ) Now it sounds like all bets are off. I'm having mixed feeling about that and will until I see how it plays out.

terry

p.s. I'm actually curious now if Angel's cancellation intensified Serenity's already darker tone.

Quote:
Originally posted by tlacook:
Terry,

[snipped for space]

I know this sounds cranky but, someone has to stand up for the integrity of what Joss is doing. It is his story and I have yet to see very many neatly wrapped up happy endings come from Joss.

What exactly are people expecting?

TLACOOK

Sunday, December 19, 2004 3:05 AM

Terry,

The payoffs are there. None of the darkness is "just because Joss can". It all serves a purpose and causes character growth. In Mal and in others.

TERRYO

Sunday, December 19, 2004 4:12 AM

I feel much better now. Thank you.

Of course, now I feel kind of silly worrying about Mal, who is a figment of Joss's imagination when all is said and done. But what can you expect from someone who got all choked up at Spike's poetry reading?

I was also more worried than I thought about HBO/Showtime/big screen syndrome. For example, JMS was about as hot as Joss when B5 was going strong. Then later came Jeremiah, an interesting concept that was just too, well, vulgar for me to invest in, especially to pay for the privilege. And I did sub to Showtime for a while just for that show.

I'm not a prude but the f-word (or c-word or gratuitous nudity) has no appeal for me. I tolerate it if balanced by good writing and acting but give me good old bloody, smegging, frelling hell anyday. :-) (The Chinese cussing gives me headaches to try to type out.)

terry (who is now trying hard not to think about the River angle. kick-ass girls, ho hum, haven't we been there, done that?)

Quote:
Originally posted by tlacook:
Terry,

The payoffs are there. None of the darkness is "just because Joss can". It all serves a purpose and causes character growth. In Mal and in others.

TLACOOK

Sunday, December 19, 2004 4:25 AM

Not like this, we haven't...

hee hee

AUTOPILOT

Sunday, December 19, 2004 4:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
If you had never seen Firefly, was there enough time and development through the film to get the audience to care enough about Wash or Book that their deaths could make the intended emotional impact? Or would they just be seen by the general public as meaningless cannon fodder, like the cliché red-shirted newbie on Star Trek away missions? Especially with so many characters to keep track of....

Hard to say, honestly I can never get enough of Wash or Book and the problem with such a good ensemble cast is that 120 min isn't enough time for all of them. I'll say Books screen time is limited, but memorable. I think what needs to be more developed is the relationship between Wash and Zoe although even if it's left the way it is things would be "ok." You can rest asured nobody in the cast is meaningless cannon fodder.

Regarding River: She is spectacular through in through in so many ways. It will blow your mind.

CHOSEN1

Monday, December 20, 2004 8:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BruisersMom:
I wondered if anyone else noticed that Joss's shows just get dark and serious after a while and that he gets rid of the really fun characters. I also wondered if anyone else is as turned off by Joss's shows when they make that turn as I am. I didn't buy the fourth season of Angel or the seventh season of Buffy because they were too dark and serious and now Mal is dark and Wash is dead in Serenity. Inara is gone and Book is dead. That only leaves Kaylee around to lighten things up. Does anyone else find a problem with that situation cropping up in a Joss show again?

Okay, I almost feel blasphemous saying this, but yeah. I only watched the last few seasons of Angel on and off because of work, but I would often think, "Why can't someone get a break around there".

I think there needs to be a few happy people on board. I know sadness is more dramatic, but since we all live a little vicariously through our favorite characters, it really sucks when the crap just piles on and on...and on like that.

Who knows, Maybe Kaylee and Simon will get married and have some cute, fat fugitive babies. That would make me happy.

First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me...Blow

SNIPER

Monday, December 20, 2004 9:00 PM

Just out of curiosity is the opening handled? How do they do that?

JILTEDTOO

Monday, December 20, 2004 9:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Forrestwolf:
Jiltedtoo, can I ask you another question? Since I'm running an RPG campaign of my own, continuity with the Firefly 'Verse is important...

IS it a one-solar-system 'Verse, or do they clearly have FTL travel in the movie? Is that resolved?

There is a scene in the movie where river points to a navigational map, which is a star map, and identifies a planet that she *needs* to visit. So I would have to say that it is a question of Faster then Light travel and not just planets in one solar system.

JT

JILTEDTOO

Monday, December 20, 2004 9:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sniper:
Just out of curiosity is the opening handled? How do they do that?

The opening was not complete during the screener. The score has not even been finished, and a large portion of the special effects.

JT

SNIPER

Monday, December 20, 2004 9:32 PM

What did they have that you guys saw?

JILTEDTOO

Monday, December 20, 2004 9:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sniper:
What did they have that you guys saw?

Just jumped into the movie. No theme song.

JT

RIVERGIRL

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 2:31 AM

I need spoilers

how does .... die?

Also, I can kill you with my brain.

GLORYBE

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 8:49 PM

Hey, can anyone give me any details about River@s action scenes??

Pleasey-weasey??

SNIPER

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 3:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jiltedtoo:
Quote:
Originally posted by Sniper:
What did they have that you guys saw?

Just jumped into the movie. No theme song.

JT

That's a shame. I was hoping that they'd put that in. Maybe for the credits

TLACOOK

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 4:12 AM

All the music we got was temporay and just thrown in. From what I understand possibly none of it will be in the final cut.

What we saw was really raw.

JAYNEZTOWN

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 1:58 PM

lucky people

TERRYO

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 3:10 PM

I agree, please tell how ... dies. As much as I was irritated by ST:TNG on a regular basis, in ?? Yesterday's Enterprise, I think?? I was genuinely moved when Tasha asked Guinan if her death in the other universe was meaningful.

There's enough senseless death out here in the real world...while it's just a valid as anything else as a plot twist, it isn't what I want for my - oops - Mal's crew.

Terry

LEXIBLOCK

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 3:25 PM

Quote:

- A (regular Firefly) character dies along the journey.

That seriously sucks!

TERRYO

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 3:27 PM

{sigh} I won't accuse Joss of pandering to any specific target demographic but one reason I liked FF:TS is that there were enough layers to the story that almost any viewer could find something of interest. While the guys were drooling over Inara, Kaylee and River, some of us were actually into the story. And not even watching Nathan naked more than a few {*cough*dozen*cough*} times.

The Matrix was boring and convoluted. If I want convoluted I'd watch Being John Malkovich again. Kill Bill, well, most adult women don't think QT is god. Crouching Tiger was cool but not memorable a few years later. (FX don't impress me, obviously.) Some of us actually like tv better than movies, just for that reason...

terry (who probably offended most of guys she knows with this post)

Quote:
Originally posted by tlacook:
Not like this, we haven't...

hee hee

TLACOOK

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 6:16 PM

Terry,

There is no pandering. I am a 36 year old straight woman who is now head over heels in love with Summer Glau.

I even went to a red carpet event and screamed like an idiot last week when she appeared.

If, Joss is pandering, it is to thirtysomething women.

TERRYO

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 9:10 PM

LOL. I can live with that. As long as the pandering is in the right direction. {g}

So, is she really that good? I don't have anything against the actress but more River onscreen most likely means less Mal. (Not a good thing, imnsho.) Can you part with a River spoiler to illustrate? And do we find out why her parents were so uninterested in her fate while Simon was frantic?

What I really need (other than a bootleg of the screener and a copy of the script) is a nice long series of Firefly novels. Which shouldn't be that difficult, considering how many good writers there were on staff.

Or even a book like the Highlander people did, A Night at Joe's, I think is the name. All of the staff (that wanted to, presumably, including the actors) did small pieces. (I keep trying to put it on half.com but cant bear to part with it.)

Or Firefly back on tv where it is supposed to be.

terry

Quote:
Originally posted by tlacook:
Terry,

There is no pandering. I am a 36 year old straight woman who is now head over heels in love with Summer Glau.

I even went to a red carpet event and screamed like an idiot last week when she appeared.

If, Joss is pandering, it is to thirtysomething women.

TLACOOK

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 10:02 PM

She really is that good and Mal's screen time is not diminished one bit. The stars of the movie are pretty much Nathan and Summer.

We get to kinda understand where River is coming from and get to cheer for her instead of thinking, "My, that girl is kinda crazy".

No backstory on the parents. Sorry. But there is River/Simon backstory.

Books will be coming but, unfortunately not until after the movie. They will help with the wait for the sequel.

BAMBOOANIME

Thursday, December 23, 2004 3:01 AM

Figured as much. Good thing I never had strong attachments to Book.

MSCKAREN

Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:02 PM

Thanks for this. I love the spoilers!! I had read in another review about the deaths and Mal's "dark turn".

I wanted to read the whole thread before posting so I lost track of the person who said it wasn't a scene of him shooting a woman and child. This is what I read in a review of one of the screenings. If this is not the "dark turn" from your screening, could you please specify what you thought illustrated Mal's darkness in the screening you saw?

Even if it's not in the final version, it's interesting to see how JW's mind works. Well, for me, it's interesting. I'm not expecting happy endings - I've been a JW fan for way to long to even consider it a possibility. And at this point, I must admit, happy endings would just make the verse a boring place!

Is it possible that after seeing the final version of the movie, I might even say, "Wow, sure am glad they cancelled the show so I could get this movie!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've canceled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."

FIREFLUNKY

Saturday, May 7, 2005 7:41 AM

New to this board. Checking to see if I can do the black text thing before I post.

Select to view spoiler:

Is this text black?

FIREFLUNKY

Saturday, May 7, 2005 8:11 AM

I just went to the Austin screening last night. Both Ron Glass & Nathan Fillion were there. Of course, Ron Glass got a few questions about his role in the movie. He shared this little tidbit.

Select to view spoiler:

Ron Glass said Joss called him up and said. "I've got some good news and some bad news. The good news is: we're making a Firefly movie, and you're in it. The bad news is: you die." But Ron went on to mention that Joss told him that "anything can happen in space. You've got holograms, genetic engineering, prequels, sequels, etc." Ron ended his comment by saying "So I don't think we've seen the last of Book!"

Also, as far as Mal's darker side

Select to view spoiler:

I never saw a scene where he shoots a mother and child. In the version I saw, he shoots a bank security guard who refused to hide in the vault with the other people in the bank. The Reavers show up while they're robbing it, Mal won't let him into their vehicle, but shoots him in the head when the Reavers start to eat him. (Maybe it used to be a mother & child but they changed it to a security guard after the first screenings.)

About the cast deaths

Select to view spoiler:

Book's death I sort of saw coming. But Wash. I had no idea. It just comes so suddenly and out of nowhere. Of course, I hated to see Wash die (I'm still slightly depressed) but I can see why Joss did it. It avoids the whole Star Trek, everybody's safe except for this one random guy in a red shirt who you've never met and don't care about so we're going to kill him to give you a sense of danger, except that it really doesn't because we still know nothing will happen to any main characters that we care about. I have to admit, after Wash died, I thought anything could happen. At any given moment I thought Zoe was going to die, then Kaylee, then Simon, then River, and it even looked like Mal might die at the end. I don't think this tension would have been created without the sacrifice of Wash. Think of the first time you saw Psycho, and Janet Leigh gets stabbed in the shower. You keep thinking "There's no way she's really dead. She's the main character. She can't die." And eventually you have to accept the fact that she really is dead. Were people mad at Hitchcock for this? Of course. Does it make it a better movie? Absolutely.

Other random stuff

Select to view spoiler:

Nothing more on Book's backstory. Tons on River's backstory (that's basically what the movie plot centers around) and we see how Simon rescued her. Kaylee and Simon finally do it! Mal and Inarra smile at each other and sort of admit feelings for each other (that's about all Mal can give at this point). And we find out the origin of the Reavers.

That's about it for you spoiler junkies. Enjoy. All in all, I thought it was a great film. It did a wonderful job summing up the characters, political situation, backstories, and relationships in about the first 5 minutes (no kidding). This is done skillfully and never seems like clumsy exposition, so I think people who have never seen the show could really enjoy the movie. Here's hoping!

KESTREL

Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:13 PM

My thoughts exactly... if Joss has done what it sounds like he's done (from about 6 different spoiler reviews I've read), then for me, Firefly began and ended with the first season and Serenity (the movie, not the pilot) will not exist.

Joss... if it's true, then you took my sky from me.