Sheep, baaaaaaah, baaah bah!

POSTED BY: AngusThermopyle
UPDATED: Friday, June 8, 2007 16:23
VIEWED: 40057
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ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Friday, December 31, 2004 11:32 AM

Firstly, Firefly is a great TV show and I enjoy watching the DVD; but (and this is kind of big, so some of you might need to pay attention here) IT'S JUST A TV SHOW! It isn't the Magna Carta, or Shakespear (although the jokes are better).

The fact that messages get answered in the same vernacular as the series is (like) so disturbing. Is this a cult now? Do you people have alters to Joss Whedon? I bet many of you have Starfleet uniforms, too...

How many people have learned Mandarin just so they can get the references in the show? Bet no-one tried to learn it because they thought it would be useful in helping the Chinese people who do not have the freedom to speak out or worship as they please. Oh, that got a bit more serious than intended...

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

PURPLEBELLY

Friday, December 31, 2004 12:17 PM

Isn't that mieh, mieh ?

PSYCHICRIVER

Friday, December 31, 2004 12:25 PM

If thats what you think, then how did you come to be here?

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."
"We can take care of each other. I'll knit!"

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Friday, December 31, 2004 2:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PsychicRiver:
If thats what you think, then how did you come to be here?

PsychicRiver
i]

Well, the reason I'm here is coz I'd heard rumours about a possible movie. I wanted to see if they were true. Like I said, I've enjoyed the series. But when I saw the obsessive fan's comments I was amazed.

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

SPOOKYJESUS

Friday, December 31, 2004 2:47 PM

What's the Magna Carta?

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Friday, December 31, 2004 2:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Spookyjesus:
What's the Magna Carta?

You could say it's the British equivalent of the US constitution, only a lot older.

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

ECGORDON

Friday, December 31, 2004 3:08 PM

We're not sheep...more like black-market beagles.

No, I don't have a Starfleet uniform, I've never dressed up as a Klingon, nor as any other character from any other show or movie. I have enjoyed SF and Fantasy films and television and books for many, many years, but this is the first time I have become obsessive about a show, and I feel there is no reason that I or any other Firefly fan should be ashamed of it.

There have been a few times that I have wondered if my obsession is a healthy one, since everytime I mention it to anyone in my family they roll their eyes and give me that look as if they feel they should be calling the men in the white suits with the nets.

But then I watch the DVDs for...what is it now...about the sixteenth time I think...and my obsession begins all over again. Get back to us after you've seen it that many times, okay?

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

HOTPOINT

Friday, December 31, 2004 3:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:
Firstly, Firefly is a great TV show and I enjoy watching the DVD; but (and this is kind of big, so some of you might need to pay attention here) IT'S JUST A TV SHOW! It isn't the Magna Carta, or Shakespear (although the jokes are better).

The fact that messages get answered in the same vernacular as the series is (like) so disturbing.

Well the Magna Carta isn't exactly a riveting read... actually neither is Shakespeare for the most part (I agree with Darwin who said reading Shakespeare nauseated him. Terribly overated IMHO).

As for Firefly just being a TV show... yes we know. The use of vernacular from the "'Verse" is mainly for laughs because we have a sense of humour around these parts

Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:

Is this a cult now? Do you people have alters to Joss Whedon? I bet many of you have Starfleet uniforms, too...

If you're looking for the Latter Day Whedonists try one of the Buffy or Angel boards, as for wearing Starfleet Uniforms I can only speak for myself but Startrek monumentally blows.

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

ECGORDON

Friday, December 31, 2004 4:00 PM

BTW, Shakespeare was never meant to be read, it has to be performed to be truly appreciated.

HOTPOINT

Friday, December 31, 2004 4:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
BTW, Shakespeare was never meant to be read, it has to be performed to be truly appreciated.

True but even on the stage it's still overated in my opinion. Across the English speaking world Shakespeare is lauded as a being the virtual pinacle of excellence and other than a few plays (if acted well which puts much of the credit on actor not author) it just doesn't match up to the hype.

I was practically accused of heresy by my English Literature Teacher at school for saying stuff like this

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

ZOID

Friday, December 31, 2004 4:58 PM

A'Thermopylae spake thus:

Quote:
You could say it's the British equivalent of the US constitution, only a lot older...

...Wherein the Rich agreed to perpetuate the myth of Divine Right, so long as they could split the booty ad infintum.

I'm still game for the Anarcho-Syndicalist Communism Movement, btw...

*zoid sits in the rowboat on the placid lake, and releases the undersized big-mouthed bass back into its waters, saying, 'Run along home littl'un, and bring back yer Papa.'*

Expectorantly,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Friday, December 31, 2004 7:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
...this is the first time I have become obsessive about a show, and I feel there is no reason that I or any other Firefly fan should be ashamed of it..

I think you missed my point somewhat, mate. I obviously wasn't talking about you. I was talking about people who actually reply to messages in character as in the show.

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Friday, December 31, 2004 7:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
BTW, Shakespeare was never meant to be read, it has to be performed to be truly appreciated.

I agree!

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Friday, December 31, 2004 7:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hotpoint:
Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
BTW, Shakespeare was never meant to be read, it has to be performed to be truly appreciated.

True but even on the stage it's still overated in my opinion. Across the English speaking world Shakespeare is lauded as a being the virtual pinacle of excellence and other than a few plays (if acted well which puts much of the credit on actor not author) it just doesn't match up to the hype.

Shakespear is "lauded" as you put it over not just the English speaking world. And for good reason. Actors merely read lines and try to give the right emotion to them. How can you say that Shakespear's work was the actor's achievement? That's just dumb! So Nathan is the real talent in Firefly. The writing is meaningless?

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

GORRAMREAVERS

Friday, December 31, 2004 8:03 PM

I am a sheep.

AngusThermopyle

prick

"..it is my very favorite gun."

ODDNESS2HER

Friday, December 31, 2004 8:05 PM

If it aint on the page, it aint on the stage.

In an increasingly lowest-common-denominator society, excellence in any form deserves appreciation for its contributions to the human spirit. But I get Angus' point about neglecting real-world issues in favor of wallowing in fiction.

HOTPOINT

Friday, December 31, 2004 8:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:
Shakespear is "lauded" as you put it over not just the English speaking world. And for good reason. Actors merely read lines and try to give the right emotion to them. How can you say that Shakespear's work was the actor's achievement? That's just dumb! So Nathan is the real talent in Firefly. The writing is meaningless?

Bit of a strawman argument there AngusThermopyle I never said that the writing was "meaningless" I was merely pointing out that the quality of how good a play is often due to the expertese of the Actors not the play itself.

The fact is that most of the truly great actors have been cast in Shakespearian plays which has helped raise the image of that work in the public eye more than they would be otherwise, think of Laurence Olivier's version of Henry V for example.

I still maintain Shakespeare is overated. That doesn't mean he wasn't any good just that his plays aren't as good as people continually make out.

In many ways I am reminded of Citizen Kane which is routinely voted best film ever but which is also considered by many critics as a triumph of style over substance. Its continued grasp on the top spot is due to a large degree on people repeating over and over again that "Citizen Kane is the best film ever" and others nodding in agreement with the "experts".

Gorram sheep following the crowd

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

GUILDSISTER

Friday, December 31, 2004 8:21 PM

Quote:
...messages get answered in the same vernacular as the series

Imagine, finding Firefly fans on a bb named "Fireflyfans"! What are the odds? In the vernacular, let's do the math on that. ;-)

While I'm sure quite a few of us have 'alters' to Joss, I suspect very few have altars.

Guildsister

PIZMOBEACH

Friday, December 31, 2004 9:30 PM

You go G' Sis! Swing it!

That guy, working electric, he never drank with us!

SIMONWHO

Friday, December 31, 2004 9:37 PM

Quote:
I think you missed my point somewhat, mate. I obviously wasn't talking about you. I was talking about people who actually reply to messages in character as in the show.

Well, I sometimes reply to messages pretending to be Simon but only because I think it's funny, it's not as though I'm suffering from multiple personality disorder.

I am also not suffering from multiple personality disorder. Me neither.

*be afraid*

STATIC

Friday, December 31, 2004 9:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:
Shakespear (although the jokes are better).

Rather than resorting to name-calling or insulting you or anything, I'll simply point out this one thing.

His name was spelled with an "e" at the end.

SHAKESPEARE.

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

MOHRSTOUTBEARD

Friday, December 31, 2004 10:10 PM

I'm beginning to wonder. . .does the Internet make assholes of all of us sooner or later?

I mean, I just don't understand the concept of going somewhere with the sole purpose of starting up an argument.

"You've just gotta go ahead and change the captain of your brainship, because he's drunk at the wheel."

RUE

Friday, December 31, 2004 10:28 PM

Just to chime in about the whole 'writing vs acting' thing - most TV shows you can actually just listen to. Get one of those radios that broadcasts TV (TV is in the FM band) and go about your day keeping tabs. Firefly is not like that at all. Yes, it has a plot, characters, and dialogue, courtesy of the author. But you can't just listen to it - it won't make sense. A lot of what happens is the acting going on. I'm sure it's written somewhere in what might be called stage-directions, at the behest of the director, following the script and characters, but still ultimately, a vital portion is the acting.

SHADESIREN

Friday, December 31, 2004 11:13 PM

wow.. you know, I was truly offended, there, for a second.

I've always said I'm a tiger, not a sheep, but that was mostly to piss off the bible-thumpers who go on about being sheep to J.C.'s Shepherd... J.C.... hey.. Jayne Cobb?? Wow.. whole new thought process there...

Back to my point..

Sheep implies a HUGE following. It also implies following without thought. There's good and bad there. I'm still offended, really, but on another level, if other sheep got into firefly simply on the sheep level, hey, at least it's Firelfy they're getting into, and I could never complain about that. At least it's healthy, smart, etc etc (all you Flans you know what I'm saying).

Still, dude, seriously, this is like a black going into a KKK rally - you KNOW there's going to be trouble, and it's all gonna be aimed at you. (Not a great analogy, on the taste side of things, but it gets the point across.)

And double kudos for the reactions among us browncoats - we're reacting so much more maturely than I'm used to seeing from other fanly types. We're all so shiny :P

as for the vernacular, bite my shiny metal ass, I LIKE how the vernacular sounds, disregarding the source entirely. I haven't learned mandarin at all - I just repeat the swearing stuff cuz I'm a chick, and everyone laughs at me if I swear in english - I'm one of those chicks that just can't. If I swear in mandarin, people don't laugh, they just look at me funny, and I'm used to that. As for shiny, gorram, and such, well, gorram it, it's no wierder than that "fo' shizzle" goushi.

yeah, so I'm a freak.

Deal.

SOUPCATCHER

Friday, December 31, 2004 11:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:
...
The fact that messages get answered in the same vernacular as the series is (like) so disturbing. Is this a cult now? Do you people have alters to Joss Whedon? I bet many of you have Starfleet uniforms, too...
...

As a person who always looked somewhat skeptically at uber-fans (or maybe I should just use the original word fanatics) it has been slightly disconcerting to find myself turning into one. But that slight hesitation is more than outweighed by the enjoyment of the experience.

I'll just share a few thoughts with you: what works for some people doesn't work for others, anything that brings joy to a person and doesn't have the potential to harm themselves or others should be celebrated, and it's probably not a good idea to peek in your neighbors windows and then make fun of what you saw them doing.

I hope you enjoy the time spent on this board. This is a great, intelligent, creative, diverse, passionate community. For me personally, I can think of far worse, and none better, places to virtually hang out. But if it doesn't float your boat, at least lend out the DVDs and keep working to raise awareness so the movie is a success in September. Success means at least one sequel if not two. That's the bottom line.

[tongue in cheek]
As far as an altar goes... I haven't got around to installing one because I'm having a hard time figuring out what the sacrifice should be. Joss is a hard deity to figure out.

[/tongue in cheek]

---------------------
"What sort of raw meat do you people feed your cruiser captains, Hamish?" - Queen Elizabeth III of Manticore

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Friday, December 31, 2004 11:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Quote:
I am also not suffering from multiple personality disorder. Me neither.

Roses are red
violets are blue
I'm schizophrenic
And so am I

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Saturday, January 1, 2005 12:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Shadesiren:
wow.. you know, I was truly offended, there, for a second.

Still, dude, seriously, this is like a black going into a KKK rally - you KNOW there's going to be trouble, and it's all gonna be aimed at you. (Not a great analogy, on the taste side of things, but it gets the point across.)
Quote:

Offensive? A black? A black what? I think that's a great analogy. Sounds like I am in a KKK meeting...

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Saturday, January 1, 2005 12:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
...at least lend out the DVDs and keep working to raise awareness so the movie is a success in September. Success means at least one sequel if not two. That's the bottom line.
Quote:

Ah, so there is going to be a movie! Great. Hope one of the studios does decide that a series would be a worthwhile idea lol.

That's one thing I really don't get: They must've made a fortune from Buffy and Angel, so why cut Firefly after only one series? Is it coz there aren't any aliens in it? I can't see any other reason. It's the best sci-fi series in years. Lexx still manages to keep going and that got s**t after series 2!

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

SOUPCATCHER

Saturday, January 1, 2005 12:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:
Ah, so there is going to be a movie! Great. Hope one of the studios does decide that a series would be a worthwhile idea lol.

That's one thing I really don't get: They must've made a fortune from Buffy and Angel, so why cut Firefly after only one series? Is it coz there aren't any aliens in it? I can't see any other reason. It's the best sci-fi series in years. Lexx still manages to keep going and that got s**t after series 2!

Yeah. Universal decided to do one movie and the filming is already completed. Right now they're working on the special effects. They did a test screening a few weeks ago and the response sounded positive. All nine of the original cast appear in the movie (and I think I remember reading that the contracts they signed were for up to three movies). As far as returning to television goes, if things stay the same as they are now that won't happen for a number of years - I think it was ten years. Fox still owns the television rights for Firefly.

There are a number of reasons the original television run of Firefly in the US was not successful. The pilot episode was not aired until the very end of the run. The episodes were aired out of order. The show was in the Friday night slot-of-death. The show was pre-empted for sporting events. Not much advertising was done at all. All of these things added up to viewer numbers that were not at the level Fox was looking for. But it also seems like they made up their mind even before they aired the series that they weren't going to support it. It sounds like they got in a contract with Joss and then just didn't like what they got (they asked him to write a new pilot episode after viewing Serenity with a ridiculous deadline - Joss and his team ended up writing Train Job over a weekend and that's the pilot Fox went with - so all the exposition and setting up of characters that happened over two hours was compressed down into an hour).

Whatever the motivation, the result was that Firefly did not have the viewers that a major network looks for (although I think the viewer numbers were comparable to Buffy or Angel - but I could just be pulling that out of somewhere).

---------------------
"What sort of raw meat do you people feed your cruiser captains, Hamish?" - Queen Elizabeth III of Manticore

MALICIOUS

Saturday, January 1, 2005 2:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
*zoid sits in the rowboat on the placid lake, and releases the undersized big-mouthed bass back into its waters, saying, 'Run along home littl'un, and bring back yer Papa.'*

Zoid, he didn't take the bait! What is WRONG with these new-fangled trolls?

Also, as a note to the baby troll, I speak the vernacular here because it's kind of an inside joke amongst us Fireflyers. We have all bonded. So, bite me.

Mal-licious

Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell

WILDBILL

Saturday, January 1, 2005 2:20 AM

Magna Carta? Shakespeare? If I'd have wanted schooling, I'd have gone to school.

EMBERS

Saturday, January 1, 2005 2:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Quote:

[tongue in cheek]
As far as an altar goes... I haven't got around to installing one because I'm having a hard time figuring out what the sacrifice should be. Joss is a hard deity to figure out.

[/tongue in cheek]

SoupCatcher: how sad is it that you feel you have to signal sarcasm?

but myself, I'm in favor of real altars; we could always sacrifice trolls....
of course I'm not saying that AngusThermopyle is necessarily a troll, altho the sheep title to this thread certainly seems antagonistic....

but it is the start of a new year....so...
[sentimentality alert]
May 2005 Bring Peace and Happiness to Browncoats around the World!
love from, Maribeth (embers)
[/sentimentality alert]

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Saturday, January 1, 2005 2:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wildbill:
Magna Carta? Shakespeare? If I'd have wanted schooling, I'd have gone to school.

See, now that's just plain funny without being freaky...

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

PIZMOBEACH

Saturday, January 1, 2005 3:03 AM

Hey, thanks ANGUSTHERMOPYLE for your post - it's been great fun to see the FFF posters prove what I've come to know them for - for their wit and class at dealing with the odd bump in the road. These people are tops.
And yes, tv shows really are tv shows!

That guy, working electric, he never drank with us!

SOUPCATCHER

Saturday, January 1, 2005 3:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
SoupCatcher: how sad is it that you feel you have to signal sarcasm?

Yeah. It is sad. However, it's one of those behavior changes I chose to make to simplify things. It all stemmed from some message board posting I was doing a couple of years ago (not here) where I would continually see humor, and specifically sarcasm, being taken seriously and resulting in long drawn out arguments before a resolution was reached. Some other posters started using tags to identify humor and that seemed to work out pretty well but I still argued with myself for a long time before I adopted it.

And now I've played around on-line enough today. Time to go to a friends house, throw away my keys, kill some brain cells, and wake up to watch the Rose Parade and clean up.

Happy and Safe New Years to everyone.

---------------------
"What sort of raw meat do you people feed your cruiser captains, Hamish?" - Queen Elizabeth III of Manticore

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Saturday, January 1, 2005 3:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Hey, thanks ANGUSTHERMOPYLE for your post - it's been great fun to see the FFF posters prove what I've come to know them for - for their wit and class at dealing with the odd bump in the road. These people are tops.
And yes, tv shows really are tv shows!

That guy, working electric, he never drank with us!

No probs, mate. I just like to stir things up from time to time, get people a little ornary - whatever the hell that is... I'm British, you know. Ta ta me old china.

Oh yeah, we British never thought James Marsters sounded anything like us. He really does though lol.

Jesus Saves! So why the lack of interest?

TERRYO

Saturday, January 1, 2005 4:50 AM

I had a classic spit-take moment when I read the comment below. Against my better judgment (you know, that whole thing about fanning flames and feeding trolls) I would like to point out that famous actors seek out Shakespearian roles because it validates _their talent_ and a playwright dead for centuries doesn't give a damn about what image the plays have. No one person does - they are part of our common culture.

But no matter how hard all the English teachers and literature professors in the world might try, Shakespeare would have died out long ago if the plays didn't deliver what an audience wants. Sure, it helps to know what an Elizabethan audience might have expected to see, the odd bits make more sense then, but if you think Shakespeare is overrated, then you obviously haven't seen it done right. The angst, the stupidity, the pratfalls, the venality, the rare act of nobility, he nailed the human heart.

If Shakespeare is overrated, why do actors and directors itch to get their chance to interpret him? Ethan Hawke's Hamlet was great (Bill Murray as Polonious, how perfect is that?) but even better if you've seen the other versions. Branagh's epic version was cool but his BBC audio version was better, Mel Gibson and Glenn Close - with its weird incestuous vibe, even the MST3K'd version was fun. And that's just Hamlet. A dozen or more plays keep getting reworked each generation. (And imo, Branagh's Henry V was much better.)

Even Joss doesn't put out a masterpiece every time. :-) Yet, I think he'd settle for that kind of legacy.

Funny, though, I agree that Citizen Kane is overrated. My husband and I watched it and when it was over we just looked at each other. As in, is that all? But then again, at the time it came out, it rocked the movie world. Well, the critic's and future filmmaker's, anyway. So, from the historical p.o.v., it rates up there. But will it be around 400 years from now?

terry (no English degree in sight, just love the words...)

p.s. If you ever get a chance to see a performance of the Shenandoah Shakespeare company ( www.ishakespeare.com) GO. They come to my nowhere Iowa town every year (the local college brings them) and they never fail to take you on a ride that rivals anything you see on a movie screen.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hotpoint:

The fact is that most of the truly great actors have been cast in Shakespearian plays which has helped raise the image of that work in the public eye more than they would be otherwise, think of Laurence Olivier's version of Henry V for example.

I still maintain Shakespeare is overated. That doesn't mean he wasn't any good just that his plays aren't as good as people continually make out.

In many ways I am reminded of Citizen Kane which is routinely voted best film ever but which is also considered by many critics as a triumph of style over substance. Its continued grasp on the top spot is due to a large degree on people repeating over and over again that "Citizen Kane is the best film ever" and others nodding in agreement with the "experts".

Gorram sheep following the crowd

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

TERRYO

Saturday, January 1, 2005 5:10 AM

OMG, Hotpoint really touched a nerve - didn't mean to rant about Shakespeare like that. The weird thing is that I do the same thing when it comes to Joss (and Tim and Jane and Drew, well all of ME) and Firefly in general to the uninitiated.

And I haven't even had any champagne to blame it on.

terry (hoping that 2005 ends better than 2004)

VETERAN

Saturday, January 1, 2005 6:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:
Firstly, Firefly is a great TV show ... but... IT'S JUST A TV SHOW! It isn't the Magna Carta, or Shakespear (although the jokes are better).

The fact that messages get answered in the same vernacular as the series is (like) so disturbing.

I'm curious, which has better jokes, The Magna Carta or Titus Andronicus? Seriously though, this board is basically a Firefly appreciation club. People who post here do what they can to show their appreciation for the show. Some take it further than others but it's all in fun. I mean the board is named Fireflyfans.net, what would you expect?

PURPLEBELLY

Saturday, January 1, 2005 6:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:
- didn't mean to rant about Shakespeare like that.

Sounds good to me. It makes a refreshing change from the ranting about Whedon

Fans, though, may point out that Joss shares your enthusiasm and has been known to trade time on a script for attendance at a weekend Shakespeare read-through.

ZOID

Saturday, January 1, 2005 7:33 AM

Mmmm-a-lishus wrote:

Quote:
Zoid, he didn't take the bait! What is WRONG with these new-fangled trolls?...

Yeah... Either I'm losing my touch, or the lowest common denominator's redshift is still growing.

Disconcertedly,

zoid

P.S.
At least AngusT's subsequent posts are less insultingly dismissive than his first, thanks to others on this board taking the high road. I never can seem to find the on-ramp for that damned road. Check and see if that map is under your seat, Mal...

P.P.S.
Happy '05, Fellow Browncoats!

CAPNRAHN

Saturday, January 1, 2005 9:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Yeah. It is sad. However, it's one of those behavior changes I chose to make to simplify things. It all stemmed from some message board posting I was doing a couple of years ago (not here) where I would continually see humor, and specifically sarcasm, being taken seriously and resulting in long drawn out arguments before a resolution was reached. Some other posters started using tags to identify humor and that seemed to work out pretty well but I still argued with myself for a long time before I adopted it.

SoupCatcher! Did you post over on the RPF {Replica Prop Forum} years ago?! Sounds VERY like that place when a certain lawyer went spastic ... and if you have never been there - consider yourself blessed!

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

MALICIOUS

Saturday, January 1, 2005 1:15 PM

Zoid,

I, myself, am off on the shoulder of that high road...hood up....white shirt tied to the antennae...hazard lights blinking...as evidenced by the "bite me" comment. (shrug) I just can't help it!

Mal-licious

Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell

HOTPOINT

Saturday, January 1, 2005 1:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:
I had a classic spit-take moment when I read the comment below.

And my secondary goal of showing that fans of classical literature are in reality just as tetchy and obsessive as SF Fans is achieved

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:

Against my better judgment (you know, that whole thing about fanning flames and feeding trolls) I would like to point out that famous actors seek out Shakespearian roles because it validates _their talent

I wasn't really trolling I was advocating an unpopular opinion in response to the citation of "Shakespear" by AugustusThermopyle as an apparent example of superior literature.

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:

But no matter how hard all the English teachers and literature professors in the world might try, Shakespeare would have died out long ago if the plays didn't deliver what an audience wants.

Once again I will reiterate the point that believing Shakespeare is overated is not the same as a holding a strident belief he is bad.

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:
but if you think Shakespeare is overrated, then you obviously haven't seen it done right. The angst, the stupidity, the pratfalls, the venality, the rare act of nobility, he nailed the human heart.

I've seen Shakespeare performed by the RSC that good enough for you? I see all of the above by the way and I still maintain he is overated.

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:

If Shakespeare is overrated, why do actors and directors itch to get their chance to interpret him?

Because it has become the yardstick used to measure performances against, actors and directors who wish to be taken seriously are forced to comply with the majority opinion that in order to be respected they must do Shakespeare. There really is a huge element of peer-pressure behind it all, one reason why Patrick Stewarts career so successfully survived Star Trek is that as a "proper actor" who performed Shakespeare on stage he was automatically taken more seriously.

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:

Funny, though, I agree that Citizen Kane is overrated.

Nice to know we agree on something, besides Firefly or course

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

MSCKAREN

Saturday, January 1, 2005 2:36 PM

Quote:

one reason why Patrick Stewarts career so successfully survived Star Trek is that as a "proper actor" who performed Shakespeare on stage he was automatically taken more seriously.

And I thought all he needed was the British accent.

Besides, if we're going to argue about Shakespeare or Shakespear, please give credit where credit is due. Everybody knows Queen Elizabeth wrote his best stuff!

Now the bigger question is, "What interdimensional demon is giving Whedon all that inside information?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've canceled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."

TERRYO

Saturday, January 1, 2005 5:51 PM

And here I thought it was the Earl of Oxford. {ducking and running for cover}

(sigh) Big damn junkies is right. I do believe I might be coming to terms with the fact that there isn't going to be any new Firefly for 9 long months and that I might actually have to get my angst fix somewhere else.

Shakespeare at least has some socially redeeming value - it's the same guilty pleasure without the stigma of having a HL Methos marathon - or rewatching the Blakes 7 finale again.

terry

Quote:
Originally posted by msckaren:

Besides, if we're going to argue about Shakespeare or Shakespear, please give credit where credit is due. Everybody knows Queen Elizabeth wrote his best stuff!

Now the bigger question is, "What interdimensional demon is giving Whedon all that inside information?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've canceled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."

TERRYO

Saturday, January 1, 2005 6:57 PM

I'll give you that. {ouch} OTOH, I don't want to waste my precious free time with stuff that doesn't push my obsessive button.

Other than Firefly, what pushes your buttons?

Normal people don't tend to be all that impressed with Joss, either. Joss fans tend to like snappy/snippy dialog and for that you can't beat Shakespeare - well, Shaw and Oscar Wilde can do it, too, but they don't have quite the same range.

I don't have to pretend to like Shakespeare because of peer pressure. Everyone I know gratefully ditched Shakespeare after high school or college. The SF fans actually get more respect around here, even ones with pointy ears or light sabers in tow.

The RSC doesn't impress me much. (Crud, now I have Shania Twain running through my head.) The reason I mentioned the SSE is that most of them are young, enthusiastic actors in love with the material and it shows. There isn't a fake suck-up, stuck-up attitude in any of their productions and again, it shows. The actors have to sell t-shirts after the show for crying out loud. You can't do that without passion.

The truth is that when Shakespeare was alive (no matter who he or she was) he was considered a hack writng trash for the masses. Which is probably why I like it. {g} And if the actors aren't getting that across, then they aren't doing it right. Period.

Or you could be letting anti-elitist snobbery keep you from enjoying it. {g}

I can even agree that there is an element of peer pressure in the entertainment industry but bottom line, it takes love to adapt Shakespeare for film, otherwise it doesn't work. I can think of a few films that cast big names for big names sake and it shows.

If it makes you feel better, I think lots of writers are overrated - Faulkner and Hemingway are two of my pet peeves. And don't get me started on some of the NY Times picks...

terry (who isn't trying to insult any Hemingway fans and feels guilty about sidetracking the thread which actually raised some interesting issues)

Quote:
Originally posted by Hotpoint:
Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:
I had a classic spit-take moment when I read the comment below.

And my secondary goal of showing that fans of classical literature are in reality just as tetchy and obsessive as SF Fans is achieved

{snipped}

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:
but if you think Shakespeare is overrated, then you obviously haven't seen it done right. The angst, the stupidity, the pratfalls, the venality, the rare act of nobility, he nailed the human heart.

I've seen Shakespeare performed by the RSC that good enough for you? I see all of the above by the way and I still maintain he is overated.

{more snipping}

TERRYO

Saturday, January 1, 2005 8:09 PM

So, I'm rereading my latest posts and realized that for me the real point is that if someone thinks Shakespeare is overrated - then what isn't? And that verse must be a cold and black place to live in.

Come to think of it, Mal would probably agree with you.

terry

Quote:
Originally posted by Hotpoint:

Once again I will reiterate the point that believing Shakespeare is overated is not the same as a holding a strident belief he is bad.

GUILDSISTER

Saturday, January 1, 2005 8:12 PM

Quote:
Guildsister said: While I'm sure quite a few of us have 'alters' to Joss, I suspect very few have altars.

Urp! Uh... I may have to reconsider this statement. You know, just perusing the way I have my dvd collection arranged, and, uh, seven seasons of Buffy lined up next to four of Angel, with the Fireflys... Altar to Joss...? Hmmm... I mean baaaa...

But I don't have Alien Resurrection. So there!

Guildsister

MALICIOUS

Sunday, January 2, 2005 12:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Guildsister:
Quote:
But I don't have Alien Resurrection. So there!

Oh, CRAP! I DO!! I was being all superior, thinking, "I do not have an altar to Joss Whedon" when I actually do. Damnit. I'm a sheep too, I guess. Hey Haken? Can we get us a wooly ewe icon please?

Mal-licious

Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell

MONTANAGIRL

Sunday, January 2, 2005 12:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:
The reason I mentioned the SSE is that most of them are young, enthusiastic actors in love with the material and it shows. There isn't a fake suck-up, stuck-up attitude in any of their productions and again, it shows. The actors have to sell t-shirts after the show for crying out loud. You can't do that without passion.

Every summer here, Montana Shakespeare in the Parks tours for three straight months with about three days off the entire time, driving to all the little podunk towns (my home"town" has about 200 people), putting up the stage, putting on a performance, selling shirts and mugs afterwards to help raise enough money to keep doing it, tearing down the stage, getting to eat around 11pm, then going to stay at strangers houses before getting up the next morning to do it all again. They love their work and it shows in the performances. I've been going for close to 30 years now, and I haven't seen one bad performance yet. Those people are the reason I love Shakepeare. I've yet to see a movie version that comes close to what they do.
(Again, apologies for hijacking the thread.)

Packer fans welcome.
All others tolerated.

SOUPCATCHER

Sunday, January 2, 2005 10:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CapnRahn:
SoupCatcher! Did you post over on the RPF {Replica Prop Forum} years ago?! Sounds VERY like that place when a certain lawyer went spastic ... and if you have never been there - consider yourself blessed!

Nope. Can't say I've ever been to that forum, CapnRahn. I'll consider myself blessed (since I need all the blessing I can get

).

---------------------
"What sort of raw meat do you people feed your cruiser captains, Hamish?" - Queen Elizabeth III of Manticore

AURAPTOR

Sunday, January 2, 2005 1:42 PM

Liking Firefly might have as much to do w/ it being a kick ass t.v. show as with there not being very much else that's worth watching. Folks pay $40,$50,$60 a month for cable or satilite connection, and for what? Paris Hilton ? Who's your Daddy? Cookie-cutter cop or lawyer shows?

I simply enjoy Firefly because it's so unlike anything else on t.v. I only casually caught episodes of Buffy or Angel, so my alter to Joss wasn't making much headway.( But man, you should see it NOW!! )

Now if you'll excuse me, my Temple to Lindsay Lohan needs a few more candles.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

DECKROID

Sunday, January 2, 2005 1:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MohrStoutbeard:

I mean, I just don't understand the concept of going somewhere with the sole purpose of starting up an argument.

B]

For you, I offer the following:

A reception desk in a sort of office building.
Receptionist
(Rita Davies) Yes, sir?
Man I'd like to have an argument please.
Receptionist Certainly, sir. Have you been here before...?
Man No, this is my first time.
Receptionist I see. Do you want to have the full argument, or were you thinking of taking a course?
Man Well, what would be the cost?
Receptionist Yes, it's one pound for a five-minute argument, but only eight pounds for a course of ten.
Man Well, I think it's probably best if I start with the one and see how it goes from there. OK?
Receptionist Fine. I'll see who's free at the moment ... Mr. Du-Bakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory ... yes, try Mr. Barnard - Room 12.
Man Thank you.
The man walks down a corridor. He opens door 12. There is a man at a desk.
Mr Barnard (shouting) What do you want?
Man Well I was told outside ...
Mr Barnard Don't give me that you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!
Man What!
Mr Barnard Shut your festering gob you tit! Your type makes me puke! You vacuous toffee-nosed malodorous pervert!
Man Look! I came here for an argument.
Mr Barnard (calmly) Oh! I'm sorry, this is abuse.
Man Oh I see, that explains it.
Mr Barnard No, you want room 12A next door.
Man I see - sorry. (exits)
Mr Barnard Not at all. (as he goes) Stupid git.
Outside 12A. The man knocks on the door.
Mr Vibrating (from within) Come in.
The man enters the room. Mr Vibrating is sitting at a desk.
Man Is this the right room for an argument?
Mr Vibrating I've told you once.
Man No you haven't.
Mr Vibrating Yes I have.
Man When?
Mr Vibrating Just now!
Man No you didn't.
Mr Vibrating Yes I did!
Man Didn't.
Mr Vibrating Did.
Man Didn't.
Mr Vibrating I'm telling you I did!
Man You did not!
Mr Vibrating I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?
Man Oh ... Just a five-minute one.
Mr Vibrating Fine (makes a note of it; the man sists down) thank you. Anyway, I did.
Man You most certainly did not.
Mr Vibrating Now, let's get one thing quite clear. I most definitely told you!
Man You did not.
Mr Vibrating Yes I did.
Man Didn't.
Mr Vibrating Yes I did.
Man Didn't.
Mr Vibrating Yes I did!!
Man Look, this isn't an argument.
Mr Vibrating Yes it is.
Man No it isn't, it's just contradiction.
Mr Vibrating No it isn't.
Man Yes it is.
Mr Vibrating It is not.
Man It is. You just contradicted me.
Mr Vibrating No I didn't.
Man Ooh, you did!
Mr Vibrating No, no, no, no, no.
Man You did, just then.
Mr Vibrating No, nonsense!
Man Oh, look this is futile.
Mr Vibrating No it isn't.
Man I came here for a good argument.
Mr Vibrating No you didn't, you came here for an argument.
Man Well, an argument's not the same as contradiction.
Mr Vibrating It can be.
Man No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements to establish a definite proposition.
Mr Vibrating No it isn't.
Man Yes it is. It isn't just contradiction.
Mr Vibrating Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
Man But it isn't just saying 'No it isn't'.
Mr Vibrating Yes it is.
Man No it isn't, Argument is an intellectual process ... contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.
Mr Vibrating No it isn't.
Man Yes it is.
Mr Vibrating Not at all.
Man Now look!
Mr Vibrating (pressing the bell on his desk) That's it. Good morning.
Man But I was just getting interested.
Mr Vibrating Sorry the five minutes is up.
Man That was never five minutes just now!
Mr Vibrating I'm afraid it was.
Man No it wasn't.
Mr Vibrating I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to arg

MALICIOUS

Sunday, January 2, 2005 2:33 PM

Ya gotta love the Circus.

Mal-licious

Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell

ECGORDON

Sunday, January 2, 2005 2:55 PM

Where's that Minister of Silly Walks emoticon when you need it?

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

HEB

Monday, January 3, 2005 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:

No probs, mate. I just like to stir things up from time to time, get people a little ornary - whatever the hell that is... I'm British, you know. Ta ta me old china.

As a Brit myself, I would just like to point out that it is generally not considered polite to turn up some place and 'stir things up' as a new member. If an old member decided the place needs a bit of a shake up then sure but to come in and mess with people you've never spoken to just for fun is more than a little rude.

Also you might get further in enlightening people as to what is wrong with their lives if you don't begin your post with something as derogatory as calling them a sheep.

I couldn't care less what you think of people on this board but I do think it should be pointed out that you could benefit from learning some manners.

I think an apology would be appreciated and respected at this point.

Keep Flyin'

Heather (who has decided to not only make fun of trolls but to actually try to rehabilitate them)

...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

HEB

Monday, January 3, 2005 10:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:

[tongue in cheek]
As far as an altar goes... I haven't got around to installing one because I'm having a hard time figuring out what the sacrifice should be. Joss is a hard deity to figure out.

[/tongue in cheek]

Goats, of course, or maybe shrimp.

...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Monday, January 3, 2005 11:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by heb:
Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:

No probs, mate. I just like to stir things up from time to time, get people a little ornary - whatever the hell that is... I'm British, you know. Ta ta me old china.

As a Brit myself, I would just like to point out that it is generally not considered polite to turn up some place and 'stir things up' as a new member...

Get a life, Heather. I wasn't being offensive to anyone. To think you wrote all that because of what I wrote kind of makes my point. So, thanks for that. For a Brit you appear to have no sense of irony what so ever. Well, at least Whedon does.

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

PURPLEBELLY

Monday, January 3, 2005 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:
I wasn't being offensive to anyone.

Certainly didn't offend me. Stir 'em up, brother. Sorry, I mean Di Di

PURPLEBELLY

Monday, January 3, 2005 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:
To think you wrote all that because of what I wrote ...

OT: I sometimes think of the length of replies as the indication of an efficient original posting; that small hole at just the right spot in the dam wall

HEB

Monday, January 3, 2005 12:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:
Quote:
Originally posted by heb:
Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:

No probs, mate. I just like to stir things up from time to time, get people a little ornary - whatever the hell that is... I'm British, you know. Ta ta me old china.

As a Brit myself, I would just like to point out that it is generally not considered polite to turn up some place and 'stir things up' as a new member...

Get a life, Heather. I wasn't being offensive to anyone. To think you wrote all that because of what I wrote kind of makes my point. So, thanks for that. For a Brit you appear to have no sense of irony what so ever. Well, at least Whedon does.

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

I'm not entirely sure I proved your point. I did not write that post because I was upset or offended at what you wrote because I know I am obsessive and do not need anyone else to point that out for me. The reason I wrote that post was because there are an abundance of people on the internet these days who do not make use of the social skills that I am sure they would use in person. In life I wouldn't dream of taking the mick of people I had only just met. It occurred to me that perhaps it had not been pointed out to you and the increasing number of others doing this that this was generally not a done thing.

You can take my previous post and this one as proof of your point because, according to you, your post upset me enough to write this or you can take it as what it was intended which was a complaint at a lack of social skills these days.

So to reiterate:
I was not upset or offended by the substance of your post

But I did think I'd point out that your post was impolite incase you hadn't realised.

So basically, feeling superior due to the fact that I wasn't the one calling people a sheep, I was trying to help.

Perhaps you could give me some help with the 'getting a life' thing.

Heather

Ps. Perhaps you'd like to explain the irony to me then as I clearly missed the point.

...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

REEQUEEN

Monday, January 3, 2005 12:51 PM

Heb - I'm practically certain ole what's-his-bucket doesn't have irony in ole Sheep's Farm On Bottom, or wherever "he's" from. Unless, of course, "he's" purchased it at Ye Ole WalMart (2-for-1 @ $1.98).

I do love a good smack-down. ;-D

First "European": Hur, hur, hur. Sheep. Baaah. Hur, hur, hur.

Second "Brit": Hunh, hunh, hunh. Short post make me smart. Hunh, hunh, hunh.

First "European": Henh, henh, henh. See? I'm British, me ole teacup. Henh, henh, henh.

Second "Brit": Hur, hur, hur. Of course y'are, mate. Why it's so funny, dontcha know? Hur, hur, hur.

First "European": Henh, henh, henh. Uh, yeah, 'sroit! Dude! Henh, henh, henh.

Second "Brit": Hunh, hunh, hunh. Yo! Hunh, hunh, *herk*...'scuse me.

"Today we get to meet the real you." Niska - War Stories

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Monday, January 3, 2005 1:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by heb:
Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:
Quote:
Originally posted by heb:
Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:

No probs, mate. I just like to stir things up from time to time, get people a little ornary - whatever the hell that is... I'm British, you know. Ta ta me old china.

As a Brit myself, I would just like to point out that it is generally not considered polite to turn up some place and 'stir things up' as a new member...

Get a life, Heather. I wasn't being offensive to anyone. To think you wrote all that because of what I wrote kind of makes my point. So, thanks for that. For a Brit you appear to have no sense of irony what so ever. Well, at least Whedon does.

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

Ps. Perhaps you'd like to explain the irony to me then as I clearly missed the point.

...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

By all means, Heather. The irony is that my comments were tongue in cheek and they seem to have sparked off something.

I'm curious, do you only take the mick out of people you've gotten to know then? Me, I wade straight in there and break the ice as soon as possible, makes for more stimulating conversation. It's just "poison in jest", nothing more.

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Monday, January 3, 2005 1:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by montanagirl:
Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:
The reason I mentioned the SSE is that most of them are young, enthusiastic actors in love with the material and it shows. There isn't a fake suck-up, stuck-up attitude in any of their productions and again, it shows. The actors have to sell t-shirts after the show for crying out loud. You can't do that without passion.

Every summer here, Montana Shakespeare in the Parks tours for three straight months with about three days off the entire time, driving to all the little podunk towns (my home"town" has about 200 people), putting up the stage, putting on a performance, selling shirts and mugs afterwards to help raise enough money to keep doing it, tearing down the stage, getting to eat around 11pm, then going to stay at strangers houses before getting up the next morning to do it all again. They love their work and it shows in the performances. I've been going for close to 30 years now, and I haven't seen one bad performance yet. Those people are the reason I love Shakepeare. I've yet to see a movie version that comes close to what they do.
(Again, apologies for hijacking the thread.)

Packer fans welcome.
All others tolerated.

Hijack away. All comments welcome.

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Monday, January 3, 2005 1:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ReeQueen:
Heb - I'm practically certain ole what's-his-bucket doesn't have irony in ole Sheep's Farm On Bottom, or wherever "he's" from. Unless, of course, "he's" purchased it at Ye Ole WalMart (2-for-1 @ $1.98).

I do love a good smack-down. ;-D

First "European": Hur, hur, hur. Sheep. Baaah. Hur, hur, hur.

Second "Brit": Hunh, hunh, hunh. Short post make me smart. Hunh, hunh, hunh.

First "European": Henh, henh, henh. See? I'm British, me ole teacup. Henh, henh, henh.

Second "Brit": Hur, hur, hur. Of course y'are, mate. Why it's so funny, dontcha know? Hur, hur, hur.

First "European": Henh, henh, henh. Uh, yeah, 'sroit! Dude! Henh, henh, henh.

Second "Brit": Hunh, hunh, hunh. Yo! Hunh, hunh, *herk*...'scuse me.

"Today we get to meet the real you." Niska - War Stories

LMAO. I am actually English, me old cock sparrah. Cor blimey guv'nor, strike a light, isn't it obvious? Apples and pears, me old trouble and strife.

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

HEB

Monday, January 3, 2005 4:13 PM

Quote:

By all means, Heather. The irony is that my comments were tongue in cheek and they seem to have sparked off something.

I'm curious, do you only take the mick out of people you've gotten to know then? Me, I wade straight in there and break the ice as soon as possible, makes for more stimulating conversation. It's just "poison in jest", nothing more.

Maybe as a group of people meeting for the first time I would take light-heartedly take the mick but not when I'm the only newcomer to an established group and I'm not sure how it would be recieved.

Firstly I'd introduce myself.

Secondly I'd make sure that it was clear that my comments could not be interpretted as my actual thoughts. I'm still not seeing where in your initial post it could be interpretted that you didn't actually think some people on this board were 'sheep'. I'm sorry if I misunderstood but I still can't understand how your original statement is tongue in cheek.

...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

PURPLEBELLY

Monday, January 3, 2005 5:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by heb:
... I still can't understand how your original statement is tongue in cheek.

You mean there are some postings here that aren't tongue-in-cheek?

Oh ... OK, you got me

LUNATIKAT

Monday, January 3, 2005 6:17 PM

Being British, I am hoping that you may be able to tell me the meaning of the phrase "pear-shaped", as in "and then it all went pear-shaped", a phrase used or abused frequently by my favorite author (Terry Pratchett - he hangs out on Olympus with Joss). Also:message to EVERYONE: look up the meaning of the word irony, willya, sheesh.

lunatikat - as much woman as you can cram into one space without getting two women

EMBERS

Monday, January 3, 2005 6:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lunatikat:
Being British, I am hoping that you may be able to tell me the meaning of the phrase "pear-shaped", as in "and then it all went pear-shaped"

THANK YOU!
I'm not British, and I would really like to know that one...
edited to add: I did find this:
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Curves/Pearshaped.html
and further explanation here:
http://alt-usage-english.org/pear_shaped.html
this is sooo funny: it is a British expression all the time!
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pea2.htm

and you can give up on anyone online figuring out what irony means, I think it is too subtle for cyber-speak....

and what is up with all of Angust's double or triple posts? Hasn't any one taught you how to edit?

REEQUEEN

Monday, January 3, 2005 7:22 PM

Personally, I prefer "wahooni-shaped," but that's just for preference.

(edited to add)

Serial posts, ah, the sign of a truly ironic mind.

"There is no dignity for a cat on fire." Cosi

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Monday, January 3, 2005 7:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
Quote:
Originally posted by Lunatikat:
Being British, I am hoping that you may be able to tell me the meaning of the phrase "pear-shaped", as in "and then it all went pear-shaped"

THANK YOU!
I'm not British, and I would really like to know that one...
edited to add: I did find this:
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Curves/Pearshaped.html
and further explanation here:
http://alt-usage-english.org/pear_shaped.html
this is sooo funny: it is a British expression all the time!
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pea2.htm

and you can give up on anyone online figuring out what irony means, I think it is too subtle for cyber-speak....

and what is up with all of Angust's double or triple posts? Hasn't any one taught you how to edit?

It's gone pear-shaped means it's all gone wrong.

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Monday, January 3, 2005 7:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by heb:
Quote:

By all means, Heather. The irony is that my comments were tongue in cheek and they seem to have sparked off something.

I'm curious, do you only take the mick out of people you've gotten to know then? Me, I wade straight in there and break the ice as soon as possible, makes for more stimulating conversation. It's just "poison in jest", nothing more.

Maybe as a group of people meeting for the first time I would take light-heartedly take the mick but not when I'm the only newcomer to an established group and I'm not sure how it would be recieved.

Firstly I'd introduce myself.

Secondly I'd make sure that it was clear that my comments could not be interpretted as my actual thoughts. I'm still not seeing where in your initial post it could be interpretted that you didn't actually think some people on this board were 'sheep'. I'm sorry if I misunderstood but I still can't understand how your original statement is tongue in cheek.

...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

So, Heather, you're an elitist. You want everyone to pass some kind of longevity test before they can be themselves. They should all be polite and only speak when spoken to. If you'd wait that long, you'd probably either say nothing at all because you weren't totally sure whether everyone in the place would completely understand what you meant or everyone would ignore you. Personally, I don't like either option. Don't be a sheep. Get it? I took no offense at all. It's a laugh, just like using a rolled up fist from time to time.

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

REEQUEEN

Monday, January 3, 2005 7:48 PM

Yes, and we thank you for explaining the obvious, since nobody had posted, y'know, links explaining the obvious.

May you live in interesting times.....

"There is no dignity for a cat on fire." Cosi

MANIACNUMBERONE

Monday, January 3, 2005 8:09 PM

Have we all been judged crazy on the basis of one fan's notions?
If so, I sure hope that fan was me!

-------------------------------------------
Inara: Who's winning?
Simon: I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
-------------------------------------------

MAUGWAI

Monday, January 3, 2005 8:43 PM

I wonder where my fellow English teachers are? There used to be several of us here.

As I've been reading this thread I have been trying to decide which is better - Shakespeare or Joss Whedon. My head almost exploded. If you don't love Shakespeare, you should sit in my class for a day while we do Romeo and Juliet, and by the end I assure you, you will be mezmerized. Not by the acting, because most of my students are lousy actors, but by the beauty of the words. I think the students who hate Shakespeare just had teachers who didn't know how to teach it.

Also, as has been discussed in a previous thread, Irony is roughly when something happens that is the opposite of what was expected. For instance, when Oedipus learns that he will kill his father and marries his mother, he runs away. In the process of escaping his fate, he kills his father and marries his mother. He expected to get away from the danger by running away, whereas if he had stayed put, the tragedy would not have happened.

So when Angusthermopyle posted, he expected for people to react negatively. When HEB reacted negatively, she did exactly what Angus expected. Therefore, her reaction is in no way ironic.

Don't try this at home, folks. I am a professional.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

GUILDSISTER

Monday, January 3, 2005 8:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:
[Don't be a sheep.

Damn you, insideous trollman! Just when you had convinced me sheepdom was a virtue.

Guildsister

MONTANAGIRL

Monday, January 3, 2005 8:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lunatikat:
Also:message to EVERYONE: look up the meaning of the word irony, willya, sheesh.

"Irony is only hypocrisy with style." - Al Pacino in Looking For Richard
One of my favorite quotes.

Also, could someone explain the phrase "take the mick" to us non-Brits? The only British phrases I know come from Monty Python, and I don't remember that one.

Packer fans welcome.
All others tolerated.

GORRAMREAVERS

Monday, January 3, 2005 9:01 PM

I prefer being called an automoton.

Thanks.

"..it is my very favorite gun."

GUILDSISTER

Monday, January 3, 2005 9:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by maugwai:
Shakespeare or Joss Whedon.

There's actually a good comparison between the two. Shakespeare wrote popular work meant for the masses. He only became a thing to frighten English students when 'thee' and 'thou' dropped out of common useage. Shakespeare wasn't writing (dramatic classical drum-roll) Shakespeare.

As Shakespeare was a brilliant craftsman of the language, it is invariably Joss's dialog-writing that causes primary mention with his works. As mentioned at the start of this thread--the vernacular. The tools of both Joss and Shakespeare are words shaped into clever, compelling patterns that catch the imagination and are repeated so often they become cliches of themselves.

In 500 years Joss's works may also cause groans of dismay when students are told the 'have' to read Buffys or Fireflys. But he's just so hard to understand...

Guildsister

REEQUEEN

Monday, January 3, 2005 9:10 PM

"Take the mick."

http://cgi.peak.org/~jeremy/retort.cgi?British=ta-ta

Quote:
take the mickey expr vt :
make fun of, mock, syn. piss take, take the mick.

Giving someone shit. Yanking someone's tail. Pulling someone's leg. But, perhaps, less politely.

BTW (and this really isn't aimed at anyone in particular), I didn't introduce myself in this forum, either, but I seem to have had less problem "getting along" by personally avoiding starting threads that take the mickey out of folks I would've hoped to engage in entertaining discussions. I have a "lurk'n'post" modality that has served me well, because I find taking the measure of the milieux, then jumping in, hair on fire, to be more efficient.

(edited to add)

Irony tends to be entirely subjective. Telling someone to look up the definition thereof, or that one doesn't understand irony, is a bit like telling someone they don't understand the colour, "blue." One either finds something ironic, or one doesn't. Oedipus' story was more one of hubris ( and that the gods were right bastards), he tried to outwit his fate and paid for it. ;-D

"There is no grace under pressure for a cat on fire." Cosi

HEB

Monday, January 3, 2005 9:14 PM

Quote:
So, Heather, you're an elitist. You want everyone to pass some kind of longevity test before they can be themselves. They should all be polite and only speak when spoken to. If you'd wait that long, you'd probably either say nothing at all because you weren't totally sure whether everyone in the place would completely understand what you meant or everyone would ignore you. Personally, I don't like either option. Don't be a sheep. Get it? I took no offense at all. It's a laugh, just like using a rolled up fist from time to time.

"Elitist" Whoa! Over exaggerate much?
If being yourself means insulting people in your first post then,yes, I guess I do have a problem with you being yourself straight away or at all. This doesn't mean that people can't take the mick straight away, especially when they know the people they are taking the mick of, but there is a difference between teasing and what you did...

...unless like you said, what you said was tongue in cheek but I still don't see that it was especially as you repeated what you said when asked about it.

So either you were being 'tongue in cheek' and don't believe what you said about sheep (in which case I apologise for misinterpretting your comment) or you were insulting people on this board (in which case I stand by my opinion that that is not a very nice thing to do).
Which is it?

Heather

...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

HEB

Monday, January 3, 2005 9:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ReeQueen:
"Take the mick."

http://cgi.peak.org/~jeremy/retort.cgi?British=ta-ta

Quote:
take the mickey expr vt :
make fun of, mock, syn. piss take, take the mick.

Giving someone shit. Yanking someone's tail. Pulling someone's leg. But, perhaps, less politely.

BTW (and this really isn't aimed at anyone in particular), I didn't introduce myself in this forum, either, but I seem to have had less problem "getting along" by personally avoiding starting threads that take the mickey out of folks I would've hoped to engage in entertaining discussions. I have a "lurk'n'post" modality that has served me well, because I find taking the measure of the milieux, then jumping in, hair on fire, to be more efficient.

Welcome to the board

!

This thread has turned into an unexpected opportunity to anglicize the place. We should exact some revenge for Whedon and his followers making us all talk like Americans. So if any non-Brits out there want to know the meaning of any other obscure British phrases - ask away.

...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

CHANNAIN

Monday, January 3, 2005 9:36 PM

Just saw this - pardon my tardiness.

Quote:
AngusThermopyle said
The fact that messages get answered in the same vernacular as the series is (like) so disturbing. Is this a cult now? Do you people have alters to Joss Whedon? I bet many of you have Starfleet uniforms, too...

Anyone who answers as one of the characters is, indeed, a bit too devoted. Them as chose to use the vernacular their own selves, however

are simply honoring the time-honored tradition of the American Western novel. Take any one of those and add space ships to it, and you've got yourself a Firefly format.

You say "cult" like it's a bad thing - someone's been listening to the media too much, methinks. Without this "cult" there would never have been any rumors of a movie to pull you in here. Not to mention that most folks don't go to the bother of actually registering just to post their "tongue in cheek" opinions unless of course they LIKE being banished to Troll-dom. And why would JW fans have Starfleet uniforms? I ask you?

Name a fan organization out there and I guarantee you the media has painted them as cults as well - from Star Wars to LOTR. But it's the cults who get things done - who turn that squeaky wheel and cry out for more. I bet Shakespear had one or two cults in his day - he has them now, for Pete's sake.

Quote:
AngusThermopyle said
How many people have learned Mandarin just so they can get the references in the show? Bet no-one tried to learn it because they thought it would be useful in helping the Chinese people who do not have the freedom to speak out or worship as they please. Oh, that got a bit more serious than intended...

I've apologized as many times as I can for my goofs in writing Mandarin and Cajun French as it is, thank you. I'm American, I believe in freedom of speech, but I also believe in to each their own. The Chinese have fought for their rights before, they will do so again. It's a human condition, no matter what the culture.

Quote:
AngusThermopyle said
It isn't the Magna Carta, or Shakespear (although the jokes are better).

This gave away your nationality, for me at least. Otherwise it would have been the Declaration of Independence or Maya Angelou. I mention her because I prefer to read Shakespear's sonnets over the plays. Hyphenating "no-one" helped too. No one over here does that.

For my ownself... baaaaa...

Incidentally, your alias sounds somewhat... Harry Potter-ish...and I mean that in the best sense possible. Honest

(see,

that's tongue in cheek)

Fans come and fans go...but zealots are with you until the bitter black end.
I draw...therefore I am. http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922
Minnesota Meetup - join us! http://firefly.meetup.com/45/

FEMALEJAYNE

Monday, January 3, 2005 10:07 PM

HAHAHAHA!! That's great! I came onto this page because I thought there would be some interesting Sheep jokes. Half the enjoyment of something is getting to talk about it in Quotes.
"Now it's time to sing the doom Song, doom doom doom doom doom doom..." I make a pretty good Gir. Another great show canceled before it's time.
Back to me. Hey dude person lady man? Who wrote the Sheep, Baaaaaaaaah, Baaah, bah! If you like the show how come you are upset over the respounce it's been recieving from it's "Loyal" fans?

With Hope because love is nothing without hope.

REEQUEEN

Monday, January 3, 2005 10:12 PM

HEB:

Quote:
Welcome to the board !

This thread has turned into an unexpected opportunity to anglicize the place. We should exact some revenge for Whedon and his followers making us all talk like Americans. So if any non-Brits out there want to know the meaning of any other obscure British phrases - ask away.

Thank you, Heather.

I was actually raised in NZ, therefore the Anglicanized spelling habits; currently living in Utah (my accent has been described as a Utah/NZ/Valley Girl mix - I lived in LA for a while); born in Edmonton (still retain Canadian citizenship for that place to run to if/when W reinstitutes the draft. I have three sons). I'm also 1/62nd Iroquois, if that helps. Hah! I admit I'm culturally schizophrenic, and I probably need help.....

To address Channain's theory that spelling and syntax can give away someone's nationality - that is all eminently fakable. I've posted as "foreign" in my long and storied (at least, in my own mind) online career. It's fun, and keeps the straights on their toes.

Hyphenating "no one" merely means that at least one didn't spell it "noone."

As a matter of fact, Noone is my Samoan lover. My husband knows about this.

"There is no grace under pressure for a cat on fire." Cosi

SOUPCATCHER

Monday, January 3, 2005 10:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by heb:
Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
[tongue in cheek]
As far as an altar goes... I haven't got around to installing one because I'm having a hard time figuring out what the sacrifice should be. Joss is a hard deity to figure out.

[/tongue in cheek]

Goats, of course, or maybe shrimp.

Shrimp would definitely put up less of a fight.

I can't believe I forgot about the ideal animal (slaps forehead)... PENGUINS!

Thanks to Dave's Firefly FAQ for the OB reference to the whole penguin thingie: http://icehawk.dyndns.org/dave/faq/entry.php?uniquekey=54

I guess another potential animal is bunnies, but that would be more in line with Anya.

---------------------
"What sort of raw meat do you people feed your cruiser captains, Hamish?" - Queen Elizabeth III of Manticore

UNCHARTEDOUTLAW

Monday, January 3, 2005 11:17 PM

When he fixes his spellings of Shakespeare and altar, maybe...just maaaaaybe I'll listen to him.

Oh, who am I kidding...I won't listen to him, he's a shit-stirrer!

-Taylor

The Uncharted Outlaw!
Captain of Prosperity (99-K64)

See my Site:
http://www.geocities.com/norcalriviera
See my Firefly Store: http://www.cafepress.com/NorCalRiviera

ZOID

Monday, January 3, 2005 11:19 PM

Lunatikat pierced us thus:

Quote:
...Also:message to EVERYONE: look up the meaning of the word irony, willya, sheesh.

Please tell me we're not going to go down that road again... Remember, in order to get proper use of a dictionary, you must be able to comprehend the definitions.

v/r,
-zed

ZOID

Monday, January 3, 2005 11:31 PM

montanagirl asked, quite reasonably:

Quote:
Also, could someone explain the phrase "take the mick" to us non-Brits? The only British phrases I know come from Monty Python, and I don't remember that one.

While I prefer the less socially acceptable 'taking the piss' (var. '...out of you/me/us/her/him'), both the mick and the piss are like saying 'pulling my leg' or 'having me on' or my favorite, "dipping Angus'pyle's pigtails in the inkwell".

Explanatorily,

zoid

MALICIOUS

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 12:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by UnchartedOutlaw:
Oh, who am I kidding...I won't listen to him, he's a shit-stirrer!

UnchartedOutlaw,

Shouldn't that be "shit-stirrer-upper?" Or, is it unacceptable to end an insult with a preposition? I keep forgetting that rule.

Mal-licious

Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell

GUILDSISTER

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 12:18 AM

Quote:
he's a shit-stirrer

Well, now, actually--in his own self-definition--he's a steaming pile of cow shit.

Really.

Any of y'all happen to notice the meaning of "AngusThermopyle"? Angus = a breed of cattle/cow. Thermo = heat. And pyle is pile. Hence CowHotpile, or more eloquently phrased... see above

Obnoxious, maybe. But, come on, the guy's got a sense of humor. Uh... I hope. Hate to think a nom-de-net like that would be an accident!

Guildsister

REEQUEEN

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 1:19 AM

Guildsister:

Quote:
Any of y'all happen to notice the meaning of "AngusThermopyle"? Angus = a breed of cattle/cow. Thermo = heat. And pyle is pile. Hence CowHotpile, or more eloquently phrased... see above

I interpreted it thus: Angus=beef=steak=edible; thermo=heat=cooked=tasty; pyle=stack=more-than-one=invitation to pig out: Eat me.

Could be I'm just a mite peckish.

"There is no grace under pressure for a cat on fire." Cosi

ZOID

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 2:32 AM

ReeQueen replied to Guildsister:

Quote:

Quote:

Any of y'all happen to notice the meaning of "AngusThermopyle"? Angus = a breed of cattle/cow. Thermo = heat. And pyle is pile. Hence CowHotpile, or more eloquently phrased... see above

I interpreted it thus: Angus=beef=steak=edible; thermo=heat=cooked=tasty; pyle=stack=more-than-one=invitation to pig out: Eat me.

I interpreted it as a Greek encounter in a narrow inlet valley (Thermopylae) with the lead guitarist of AC/DC (Angus Young), or "bugger me, please". (NB: the term 'AC/DC', of sexuality, means bisexual. But which is 'AC' and which 'DC'?)

Definitively,

zoid

P.S.
Maybe we really shouldn't make fun of his(?) name. It seems a little childish, even if it is fun. Especially since he(?) provides us with so much risible material otherwise. In all good sportsmanship, if he sets us up -- in analogy to volleyball -- should we not slam them into his face, as he so clearly wants?

REEQUEEN

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 2:38 AM

Zoid, I agree. Making fun of someone else's name is petty and small-minded. Of course, I am petty and small-minded, but what I can't change I embrace.

That being said, all offers to make fun of my name will be respectfully considered.

"There is no grace under pressure for a cat on fire." Cosi

ZOID

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 2:52 AM

ReeQueen:

Welcome to the board, btw. Having read your posts, I get the sense that you are remarkably the female version of myself. I like your stuff.

Anybody ever notice how you've never seen ReeQueen and zoid in the same room at the same time? Hmmm...

v/r,
-zed

REEQUEEN

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 3:12 AM

See, this is why I hang out here rather more than any place else. I've got either the warm fuzzies or a hairball - either of which can be the result of people being nice to me. Dunno why, I've got a weird constitution....

Now that I think about it, I haven't seen us together in the same room, Zoid. I might have to blame wormholes, but you'd have to provide the scientific basis for them.

"There is no grace under pressure for a cat on fire." Cosi

ZOID

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 3:20 AM

ReeQueen:

Seriously: I've got a weird vibe on this one. Ever since I read your first post, the way you word things... Not like 'kindred spirit' or anything, because how could I/we possibly have one of those? More like twins separated at birth. Spooky.

So stick around and post more. I still ain't got my finger on it yet...

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 4:56 AM

Quote:

Incidentally, your alias sounds somewhat... Harry Potter-ish...and I mean that in the best sense possible. Honest

(see, that's tongue in cheek)
QUOTE]

Actually Angus Thermopyle is a Stephen R Donaldson character from his Gap novels. I think Harry Potter sucks lol. His Dark Materials trilogy by Philip Pullman was so much better - although I'd debate it being a children's series.

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

ANGUSTHERMOPYLE

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 4:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FemaleJayne:
HAHAHAHA!! That's great! I came onto this page because I thought there would be some interesting Sheep jokes. Half the enjoyment of something is getting to talk about it in Quotes.
"Now it's time to sing the doom Song, doom doom doom doom doom doom..." I make a pretty good Gir. Another great show canceled before it's time.
Back to me. Hey dude person lady man? Who wrote the Sheep, Baaaaaaaaah, Baaah, bah! If you like the show how come you are upset over the respounce it's been recieving from it's "Loyal" fans?

With Hope because love is nothing without hope.

I think "upset" would be somewhat overstating the case, Female Jayne. I've never joined a fan site for anything else and thought it was strange is all. But the fact I'm here at all is a credit to the show.

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

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