Taliban winning in Afghanistan

POSTED BY: Magonsdaughter
UPDATED: Sunday, August 30, 2026 23:18
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MAGONSDAUGHTER

Saturday, October 16, 2010 10:29 PM (P)

http://www.theage.com.au/national/troops-overwhelmed-and-cannot-defeat
-taliban-20101016-16odk.html

Quote:
THE Taliban have ''overwhelmed'' foreign troops and cannot be defeated by military means, one of Australia's top combat soldiers has warned.

Brigadier Mark Smethurst says securing Afghanistan could take decades, but success is uncertain without a fundamental change in strategy.

His critical assessment comes in a report that contrasts sharply with federal government claims of progress in Afghanistan.

While the key role of Australian troops is mentoring local forces, he says the Afghan army cannot operate independently, despite seven years of training, and the police are even worse.

The Afghan government is ineffective and has failed to deal with corruption, human rights abuses and a non-existent justice system. Aid distribution, he says, has been ''wasteful, ineffective and insufficient''.

Brigadier Mark Smethurst implicitly criticises the Howard government's approach, and poses questions about the present government's agenda.

While successive governments have stated we are in Afghanistan to deny al-Qaeda terrorists a base, the brigadier says the key reason is to maintain the US alliance.

In a paper that makes uneasy reading for MPs before this week's parliamentary debate on Afghanistan, he implies that if we haven't achieved our primary aim by 2012 - training Afghan troops - we should pull out.

''Compared with other counterinsurgency campaigns, the chance of a solution in the short term appears remote,'' he says. ''Even with the strongest possible action and co-operation at the national level, it is difficult to see solutions emerging in less than 10 years unless proactive action is taken now.''

Brigadier Smethurst is a highly regarded special forces officer, with service in East Timor, Iraq and Afghanistan in a 28-year career. At present deputy commander of Special Operations Command, he is tipped for a key coalition post in Afghanistan.

While his paper was written last year, he told The Sunday Age the basic tenets held true.

Called Creating Conditions for the Defeat of the Afghan Taliban: A Strategic Assessment, it was recently published online by the Australian Defence College.

He describes the Taliban as a ''very capable adversary'' who are winning the propaganda war and whose tactics had ''overwhelmed the coalition''.

The insurgents ''cannot be crushed by a conventional military campaign'', he says. As public support for the nine-year-old war in the West wanes, foreign efforts have made limited progress.

He calls for a co-ordinated military and political strategy aimed at providing security, building Afghan forces and creating a functioning Afghan government. Yet all three aims face massive obstacles, he writes.

The number of troops in Oruzgan, where Australians are based, is less than half the number recommended.

If Australia fails to reach its 2012 target, ''any further commitment should be questioned, as Australia could be drawn into a greater security dilemma as the Taliban and al-Qaeda networks expand their control further into Pakistan and the region''.

While Australian and Dutch troops in Oruzgan had made substantial achievements, creating ''ink spots'' of security, ''there is little real security beyond the areas of operations''. The lack of security means Australian aid workers and police trainers have had limited impact and ''struggle to maintain a presence''.

Greater progress could have been made if Australia had adopted a ''whole of government'' approach when the Howard government sent reconstruction troops to Oruzgan in 2006.

The nature of Australia's commitment also raises ''many questions'' about the agenda of Labor governments, with the defence white paper issued by the Rudd government last year declaring conflict in the Middle East was not the ADF's principal task.

He warns the coalition must not be seen to fail in Afghanistan, because of the boost it would give to the Taliban in nuclear-armed Pakistan. A solution lies between the ex

DMAANLILEILTT

Saturday, October 16, 2010 11:50 PM (P)

Gee, don't you wish you hadn't funded, trained and armed them?

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

FREMDFIRMA

Sunday, October 17, 2010 2:43 AM (P)

Indeed.

Still, as I said at the beginning of this mess...

Would-be conquerers come and go, but end of the day, Afghanistan, is Afghanistan.

We also made the mistake of trying to prop up yet another puppet, Kharazi, who is the Afghan version of Ahmed Chalabi, a useless corrupt sleazeball only out for himself who told us what we wanted to hear instead of anything remotely resembling the realities of the situation.

And I don't buy that "if we leave it'll become a breeding ground for terrorists" bullshit, it's ALREADY one, mostly due to our own actions - every civvie who gets killed as "collateral damage" from our ineffective thrashing... every relative they have then becomes a potential threat to us, this also I warned of going into the situation.

EXCERPT FROM CROSS THE STARS

Quote:
Marilee sat down with the abruptness of a gun returning to battery. She laughed as she looked out the window through which she could see nothing but sky from her present low angle. "Well," she said, "Danny, I suppose you'd better explain that. I hadn't expected to hear from a mercenary that force doesn't accomplish anything."
"Ex-mercenary," Pritchard corrected. The smile was back. "And force accomplishes a lot of things. They just aren't the ones you want here. Bring in the Slammers and we kick ass for as long as you pay us. Six months, a year. And we kick ass even if the other side brings in mercs of their own—which they'll do—but that's not a problem, not if you've got us." Unit pride lasted even after the unit's work became a matter of distaste. Pride beamed now from Danny Pritchard's face, and his hand caressed a tank that only his mind could see.
"So," the man went on. He got up without thinking about the action because he was focused on plans, on possibilities. "There's what? Three hundred thousand people on Tethys?"
Marilee's eyes narrowed. "On the Council Islands, about. There's a lot more in little holdings on the unclaimed islands, but I don't think anyone can be sure of numbers."
"So," Pritchard repeated. The word was his equivalent of the Enter key when his mind was computing possibilities. "You want to kill fifty kay? Fifty thousand people, let's remember they're people for the moment."
"I don't want to kill anybody!" the woman snapped. She swung abruptly to her feet again. Her boots rapped on the inlaid floor over which her visitor's heels had glided unheard. "I don't even want to kill Bev Dyson. I grew up with him, after all, I . . . maybe he did kill my husband. But I don't want to know that for sure. And I don't want him killed."
"You see," said Danny Pritchard, as if he had not heard his companion expose a part of herself that she had not known existed, "if we go in quick and dirty, the only way that has a prayer of working is if we get them all. If we get everybody who opposes you, everybody related to them, everybody who called them master—everybody."
"They aren't all dangerous!" Marilee shouted. She turned to the wall of trophies and went on in nearly as loud a voice. "They aren't any of them dangerous, except maybe a few. What are you talking about?" She spun back to Pritchard.
The ex-soldier nodded in agreement. "They're not dangerous now, but they will be after the killing starts. Believe me—" he raised a hand to forestall another protest— "I've seen it often enough. Not all of them, but one in ten, one in a hundred. One in a thousand's enough when he blasts your car down over the ocean a year from now. You'll see. It changes people, the killing does. Once it starts, there's no way to stop it but all the way to the end. If you figure to still live here on Tethys."
"M—Danny!" the woman said. "I told you, I don't want killing. Why do you keep saying that?"
"What do you think the Slammers do, milady?" asked Danny Pritchard. His grin was wide as a demon's, as cruel as the muzzle of the guns he remembered using so well. "Work magic? We kill, and we're good at it, bloody good. You call the Slammers in to solve your problems here and you'll be able to cover the Port with the corpses. I

CHRISISALL

Sunday, October 17, 2010 2:53 AM (P)

I agree.

The laughing Chrisisall

KWICKO

Sunday, October 17, 2010 2:58 AM (P)

As one of the mujahideen once told a Westerner...

"This is Afghanistan. You in the West have the watches; we have the time."

The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

GINOBIFFARONI

Sunday, October 17, 2010 4:36 AM (P)

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2010/10/20101016133711604
162.html

Injustice in the age of Obama
Barack Obama, a former law professor, should have a healthy respect for civil liberties, but his actions suggest not.

Since being the defendant in about six trials after I was arrested for protesting the Iraq and Afghanistan occupations, it’s my experience that the police lie. Period.

However the lies don’t stop at street law enforcement level. From lies about WMD and connections to "al Qaeda," almost every institution of so-called authority - the Pentagon, State Department, CIA, FBI, all the way up to the Oval Office and back down - lie. Not white lies, but big, Mother of all BS (MOAB) lies that lead to the destruction of innocent lives. I.F Stone was most definitely on the ball when he proclaimed, "Governments lie".

Having clarified that, I would now like to examine a case that should be enshrined in the travesty of the US Justice Hall of Shame.

In February of this year, Aafia Siddiqui, a Pakistani mother of three, was convicted in US Federal (kangaroo) Court of seven counts, including two counts of "attempted murder of an American." On September 23, Judge Berman, who displayed an open bias against Dr. Siddiqui, sentenced her to 86 years in prison.

The tapestry of lies about Dr. Siddiqui - a cognitive neuroscientist, schooled at MIT and Brandeis - was woven during the Bush regime but fully maintained during her trial and sentencing this year by the Obama (in)Justice Department.

Before 9/11/2001, Aafia lived in Massachusetts with her husband, also a Pakistani citizen, and their two children. According to all reports, she was a quietly pious Muslim (which is still not a crime here in the States), who hosted play dates for her children. She was a good student who studied hard and maintained an exemplary record, causing little harm to anything, let alone anyone.

After 9/11, when she was pregnant with her third child, she encouraged her husband to move back to Pakistan to avoid the backlash against her Muslim children - which was a very prescient thing to do considering the Islamophobia that has only increased in this country since then.

Tortured 'truth'

Following the move to Pakistan, Dr. Siddiqui and her husband divorced. Her life took a horrendous turn justly after. While Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) - supposed mastermind of the 9/11 plot - was being water-boarded by the CIA 183 times in one month, he gave Dr. Siddiqui up as a member of al-Qaeda. Was this a case of stolen identity, or was Mohammed just saying random words like you or I would to stop the torture?

There is some disputed "intelligence" that Aafia had married KSM’s nephew, a tenuous allegation at best, and even so, guilt by association has no place in the hallowed US legal system.

Following KSM’s torture-induced 'insights', Dr. Siddiqui was listed by Bush’s Justice Department as one of the seven most dangerous al-Qaeda operatives in the world. A mother of three equipped with a lethal ability to 'thin-slice' your cognitive personality in seconds. If alleged association and a healthy interest in neuro-psychology are the definitive hallmarks of a 'terrorist operative,' then Malcolm Gladwell better start making some phone calls to Crane, Poole and Schmidt.

A culture of falsehoods

Face it, we all know that since 9/11, there have been numerous false "terror" alerts and lies leading to the capture and torture of hundreds of innocent individuals - and the heinous treatment we have all witnessed to from Abu Ghraib. Additionally, we are supposed to believe that multi-war criminal, Colin Powell, was "fooled" by faulty intelligence so much so that he paved the way for the invasion of Iraq by his false testimony at the UN but we are also supposed to unquestioningly believe the US intelligence apparatus when they lie about others such as Dr. Siddiqui.

In any case, in a bizarre scenario - to make a very long story short - Dr. Siddiqui and her three children disappeared for five years from 2003 to 2008, resurfacing i

GINOBIFFARONI

Sunday, October 17, 2010 4:38 AM (P)

http://english.aljazeera.net/photo_galleries/middleeast/20101061135121
96166.html

Israel 'declares war on its people'

You could easily miss the thin, gravel road that leads to Al Arakib, a Bedouin village in the north Negev. It is a bit ironic, given the enormity of the struggle there and its deep implications for the Jewish state.

Israeli forces have razed the village five times since late July, sparking cries of ethnic cleansing and leaving more than 300 Bedouin homeless. But the equally determined residents, along with a handful of Jewish activists, continue to rebuild.

The government claims that Al Arakib was abandoned and, as such, belongs to the state. Israel calls the Bedouin squatters who "infiltrate" the area and settle it illegally. According to the state, these people must be removed to make way for a forest to be planted by the Jewish National Fund.

Villagers, some of whom hold Ottoman-era deeds to the property, say that the Israeli army asked them to leave temporarily in 1951. Believing they would be able to move back, they left. It was then, they say, that the state declared Al Arakib abandoned and expropriated it.

'Peace in your own house'

But the Bedouin maintained a connection to the earth. They continued to cultivate the village land, harvesting olives, pomegranates, and other produce. And more than a decade ago, they rooted themselves in Al Arakib once again, building houses and families.

A graveyard, established more than a century ago, also signals the villagers' attachment to the area.
Speaking just days after his home was demolished for the fifth time, Aziz Abu Mudegem points towards the cemetery and remarks: "My grandfather was buried here in 1908. He was the first to be buried here."

Abu Mudegem, a member of the al-Turi family, adds: "We have a purchase agreement from Ottoman times. The British came after that and, now, our government."

"They say that we're squatters, but it's not true," he continues. "Squatters are people who sit on the state's land. [Al Arakib] isn't the state's land. It's ours."

Their story is emblematic of the Palestinian struggle; it also touches on questions about Israel's treatment of non-Jewish citizens.

Facing the ruined houses, Ismail Mohammed Abu Mudegem al-Turi takes his wallet from his pocket. He pulls out his Israeli identity card and tosses it onto the sand. "I want someone to take this," he says. "What do I need it for? It doesn't protect me. It's just paper in my pocket."

"We don't have water. We don't have electricity. We don't have honour," al-Turi says, referring to both the demolitions and the scores of unrecognised Bedouin villages in Israel. The continued destruction of Al Arakib, he says, is like "declaring war on the people".

Just days before the village was destroyed for the first time, Binyamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, declared that "an international campaign is being waged against the definition of Israel as a Jewish state .... The significance of these attacks is that various elements are liable to demand their own national rights and the rights of a state within the state of Israel - in the Negev, for example, if it becomes a region without a Jewish majority". Netanyahu added that such a change would be "a real threat" to the Jewish state.

Al-Turi simply remarks: "Go make war with Syria, not with your own people. If you want peace, do it first in your own house."

Battling the system, not the bulldozers

Ismail Mohammed Abu Mudegem al-Turi tosses his Israeli identity card to the floor [Credit: Mya Guarnieri]
Oren Yiftachel, a geography and urban studies professor at Ben Gurion University and the author of Ethnocracy: Land and Identity Politics in Israel/Palestine, comments: "Citizenship is empty of any substantive content if you don't have basic services or recognition.

"The land issue [at Al Arakib] serves as a reminder that citizenship in Israel is very unequal."

Yiftachel has served as an expert witness in the lawsuit filed by Nuri al-Uqbi, another Bedouin who lays claim to Al A

CATPIRATE

Sunday, October 17, 2010 8:17 AM (P)

That is bullshit. Look the taliban what is left is in Pakistan. We the USA as always is building up huge in Kabul. Nobody is gonna invade like Russia and China so they can have a jumping off point into the gulf. The stinky French and gay ass liberals of England get there oil from Iraq so we are gonna stay for a long time. Cut the oil off to your Europe see how quick they come to Uncle Sam for help. Please Please Mr America.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, October 17, 2010 8:24 AM (P)

What?

KWICKO

Sunday, October 17, 2010 11:57 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by CatPirate:
That is bullshit. Look the taliban what is left is in Pakistan. We the USA as always is building up huge in Kabul. Nobody is gonna invade like Russia and China so they can have a jumping off point into the gulf. The stinky French and gay ass liberals of England get there oil from Iraq so we are gonna stay for a long time. Cut the oil off to your Europe see how quick they come to Uncle Sam for help. Please Please Mr America.

Y'know, either people are really ignorant of geography, or they're relying on OTHER people being really ignorant of geography when they float out comments like this. I heard a pundit and a policy wonk repeating this exact same kind of statement a while back - they insisted that Russia invaded Afghanistan to get a warm-water port.

Where IS the port in Afghanistan?

Saying Afghanistan is the gateway to the Gulf is like saying that Nebraska is the gateway to the Pacific.

The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

DMAANLILEILTT

Sunday, October 17, 2010 12:33 PM (P)

Apparently you have not heard about the oil platforms off the coast of Scotland.

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

NIKI2

Sunday, October 17, 2010 5:45 PM (P)

Quote:
Gee, don't you wish you hadn't funded, trained and armed them?

Are you from another country? If not, who do you mean by “you”, given it was Presidents of both sides who did so...

Quote:
Would-be conquerors come and go, but end of the day, Afghanistan, is Afghanistan.

Yes, Frem, as we and others know, Afghanistan has been conquered innumerable times throughout history, but nobody’s ever HELD it for long.

Back when we lived there, the common wisdom was that Russia wanted Afghanistan as a “buffer country”, nothing more. It certainly has little to offer in any other way, and it’s no “gateway” as far as I could ever see. As I’ve said before, back then it was a game to them; America built them an airport and an airline (there reason my dad was sent there), Russia built them a road (ironically, TO Russia); America built schools, Russia built grain silos. They made out great by playing one against the other; unfortunately THAT gambit doesn’t work forever.

And yes, everything else you said, Frem. It’s sad that these things are SO obvious to so many of us, yet either our politicians are deaf, dumb and blind, or they don’t care and just want a war for their own purposes.

Quote:
provoke us to doin more damage to ourselves in our panicked flailing than they could ever hope for - not to mention our stupidity at sending our guys over there to be pop-up targets for folks who have EVERY DAMN REASON to hate our guts.

Right on. Wasn’t that Al Qaeda’s stated purpose? To get us involved in so many little “wars” around the world that we exhaust our military resources, and to cause dissention within our country, etc.? Which is happening quite effectively, as far as I can see.

Interestingly I’ve read that “terrorism never works”...would be interesting to see what whoever wrote that would have to say about the current situation, in which terrorism abroad, one strike against us which was possible because of our own complacency, the stupidity/stubbornness of our government, the desire to divide by our politicians, and our own susceptibility to terror, has been quite effective. I think that puts the lie to the statement. Terrorism WITHIN a country might not work, in that it causes people to rise up against it, but it seems terrorism all over the place is quite effective in terrorizing a country which is actually little in danger of being its victim, but whose imaginations can be stimulated to be terrorized!

Hee, hee, hee, I love that quote, Mike. How apropos! Time has always been their ally and their conquerors' enemy.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NIKI2

Sunday, October 17, 2010 5:45 PM (P)

Gino, GREAT to see you again!! Gawd, that story is horrendous but, unfortunately, doesn’t surprise me in the least. I couldn’t read beyond

Quote:
As you read below it will become blatantly obvious

I don’t have to know the details, my imagination and knowledge of other such stories suffices, and it would be like reading about an animal in a testing lab, it happens so often and in so many of the same ways. Absolutely

Quote:
since 9/11, there have been numerous false "terror" alerts and lies leading to the capture and torture of hundreds of innocent individuals - and the heinous treatment we have all witnessed to from Abu Ghraib. Additionally, we are supposed to believe that multi-war criminal, Colin Powell, was "fooled" by faulty intelligence so much so that he paved the way for the invasion of Iraq by his false testimony at the UN but we are also supposed to unquestioningly believe the US intelligence apparatus when they lie about others such as Dr. Siddiqui.

And yet so MANY blind, brainwashed people still deny this, say we are “justified” in what we do, say torture “works” (which it’s conclusively been proven NOT to) and act on “information” given by those who tortured, when surely they must know that, just like McCain, people will name a football team to stop the torture! Why are humans susceptible to ignoring what they know to be true and defending what they know is false, and be so determined to keep doing so no matter what? It’s a conundrum, to me.

I don’t often read stories about Israeli atrocities for the same reason, and scratch my head about people who blindly defend Israel, no matter what, for the same reason.

I found it amusing but sad and disgusting that McCain backs torture when he stated HIMSELF that he named anyone he could think of to stop the torture. What hypocrisy!

Cat, once again we need to go into the non-ownership of oil. It’s traded on a worldwide stage, from what I’ve read, so nobody knows “who’s” oil they’re buying. Which again gives the lie to our need to drill for “our own” oil, as the companies who bring it up (often foreign) sell it on the world market and we buy off the world market, so it’s never “our” oil in the first place. The only positive is that the companies pay a fee to us to drill, and I believe for however much they bring up, and the only true argument about getting “free of foreign oil” is that we need to find alternatives TO oil.

The rest of what you wrote makes no more sense to me than it did to Magons. Nor did the remark about oil platforms off Scotland.

Mike, I know Russia has used other countries as “gateways” to further conquest, and Afghanistan is certainly a poor enough country to easily conquer (but, as anyone who has learned, not to hold!), but I maintain that what was true when we lived there still holds; they want a buffer country, some place poor enough to control but not important enough to need dealing with or putting money into. Perhaps it could be viewed as a “gateway to the Mideast”, but gateway to any kind of port? That’s not just absurd because there IS no port in landlocked Afghanistan, but because the terrain and distance make even using it as a gateway to ports in Iran or Pakistan totally unfeasible. Which idiot came up with that concept??

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

CATPIRATE

Tuesday, October 19, 2010 3:45 AM (P)

Kwicko you are a dumbshit. Strike base idiot. But I'm sure you know all about military operations. What's going on right now. Oh if ya talk to soldiers you would know. The airbase is getting huge. No war in that area. We will be there a long time. Protecting the Gulf Region.

DMAANLILEILTT

Tuesday, October 19, 2010 6:36 AM (P)

I was saying the United States Of America funded, trained and armed Afghani militia to beat back the Soviet Union. One of these militia groups trained in a camp called Al-Qaeda. I was saying that don't Americans wish they hadn't funded extreme groups in Afghanistan because now there have been thousands of deaths because of it.

And I'm aware that the article is about my country and not your's. I was making a satirical comment.

And the oil comment was a response to CatPirate. And I was refering to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_oil

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

KANEMAN

Tuesday, October 19, 2010 1:20 PM (P)

With the crock of barak running things I'd be suprised if they don't take us over.

PEACEKEEPER

Tuesday, October 19, 2010 1:28 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
With the crock of barak running things I'd be suprised if they don't take us over.

We we always lose ANY war in Afghanistan. It's all about terrain. You invade my house with 4 trained soldiers and I'll off 3 of em before they've reached the first floor landing.With zero training.Knowing your battleground is everything.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, October 20, 2010 12:45 AM (P)

Let them win.

The more we fight, the stronger they become. This is because there are more powers on this Earth with a vested interest in us losing than there are with an interest in us winning. These powers will pour resources into the Taliban and anyone else fighting us until we lose. Hence, the longer we fight, the stronger they become. Ultimately, we lose.

Think about it:

Russia and a number of European country oppose a US-dominated middle east. Add that together, and that's most of Europe.

The communists and the muslim world wishes us to fail, that's most of Africa, and ultimately, when you add in the drug lords who also want us to fail with the communists, that's most of Latin America as well.

China, Russia, Pakistan, Iran, other muslim nations are dead set against our victory, and India has doubts. That's almost all of Asia.

So, add it up. It's the US, with the support of Israel, and now it's really losing or lost the support of the UK. That means up to 95% of the world is against us.

And it gets worse: Apparently, WE are arming the enemy ourselves, because elements within our own govt either seek to profit from it, want to undermine the mission, or claim it for themselves, or are just too hopelessly disorganized to know who they are helping...

So, almost 100% of the world is helping the enemy. So, the longer conflict goes on, the stronger the enemy becomes.

So let them win. Better today than tomorrow, and better tomorrow than the day after...

KWICKO

Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:16 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by CatPirate:
Kwicko you are a dumbshit. Strike base idiot. But I'm sure you know all about military operations. What's going on right now. Oh if ya talk to soldiers you would know. The airbase is getting huge. No war in that area. We will be there a long time. Protecting the Gulf Region.

You say "we will be there a long time" and "protecting the Gulf region" as if those are GOOD things.

And yeah, I know a little about military ops. I know you can do more from a carrier battle group than you can from a static base, especially when that base is in a land-locked country swarming with natives who absolutely hate you and are willing to give their lives to drive you from their land.

You were in the navy, right? So what you know is all about things that are long, hard, and full of seamen, right? ;)

Hey, maybe you'll get your wish and they'll try to put a Navy base in Afghanistan...

The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:37 AM (P)

Oh hell yes, of COURSE the Russians are laughing up their sleeve and funnelling weapons, equipment and money to anyone willing to shoot at us, all the while thinkin "Paybacks a bitch, ain't it ?".

You really think Putin didn't laugh his ass off the minute we invaded that place, and start shipping guns not thirty seconds later ?

We dare not call em on it either, do we now ?

We should just cut our losses and GTFO, honestly.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

KWICKO

Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:52 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Let them win.

The more we fight, the stronger they become. This is because there are more powers on this Earth with a vested interest in us losing than there are with an interest in us winning. These powers will pour resources into the Taliban and anyone else fighting us until we lose. Hence, the longer we fight, the stronger they become. Ultimately, we lose.

Think about it:

Russia and a number of European country oppose a US-dominated middle east. Add that together, and that's most of Europe.

The communists and the muslim world wishes us to fail, that's most of Africa, and ultimately, when you add in the drug lords who also want us to fail with the communists, that's most of Latin America as well.

China, Russia, Pakistan, Iran, other muslim nations are dead set against our victory, and India has doubts. That's almost all of Asia.

So, add it up. It's the US, with the support of Israel, and now it's really losing or lost the support of the UK. That means up to 95% of the world is against us.

And it gets worse: Apparently, WE are arming the enemy ourselves, because elements within our own govt either seek to profit from it, want to undermine the mission, or claim it for themselves, or are just too hopelessly disorganized to know who they are helping...

So, almost 100% of the world is helping the enemy. So, the longer conflict goes on, the stronger the enemy becomes.

So let them win. Better today than tomorrow, and better tomorrow than the day after...

Yup, to pretty much all of that. India likes that we're a bit of a thorn in the side of Pakistan at the moment, and they also like anything which drags our attention away from their area of the world for a bit, so of course they're happy. Naturally, China likes that, too. While we're distracted and hemorrhaging money, they're only too happy to keep gobbling up our debt, because they know that sooner or later we either have to pay up, or quit, and either way, they win big.

Also, nobody in the area wants the U.S. trying to put the squeeze on Iran by having bases in the surrounding countries, because they know that only leads to a shooting war with Ira, and frankly, China, India, Pakistan, and Russia want access to Iranian oil more than they want us in the area.

That doesn't mean that they aren't happy to see us trapped their and bogged down, but they don't seriously want us winning or making any real headway in the area. Much better for their respective spheres of influence if we stay put and don't make any real progress.

The real fools are those who think any of them are on our side. There aren't "sides" anymore - there's only influence, money, power, and resources, and it's every nation for itself.

The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

DMAANLILEILTT

Wednesday, October 20, 2010 3:55 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Let them win.

The more we fight, the stronger they become. This is because there are more powers on this Earth with a vested interest in us losing than there are with an interest in us winning. These powers will pour resources into the Taliban and anyone else fighting us until we lose. Hence, the longer we fight, the stronger they become. Ultimately, we lose.

Think about it:

Russia and a number of European country oppose a US-dominated middle east. Add that together, and that's most of Europe.

The communists and the muslim world wishes us to fail, that's most of Africa, and ultimately, when you add in the drug lords who also want us to fail with the communists, that's most of Latin America as well.

China, Russia, Pakistan, Iran, other muslim nations are dead set against our victory, and India has doubts. That's almost all of Asia.

So, add it up. It's the US, with the support of Israel, and now it's really losing or lost the support of the UK. That means up to 95% of the world is against us.

And it gets worse: Apparently, WE are arming the enemy ourselves, because elements within our own govt either seek to profit from it, want to undermine the mission, or claim it for themselves, or are just too hopelessly disorganized to know who they are helping...

So, almost 100% of the world is helping the enemy. So, the longer conflict goes on, the stronger the enemy becomes.

So let them win. Better today than tomorrow, and better tomorrow than the day after...

That post is exactly why the Coalition is losing the war and it has nothing to do what you say. If America actually thinks that 95% of the world is helping the Taliban because they aren't helping them is the reason why the Taliban is able to keep recruiting.

Russia and the E.U. might not want a US-dominated Middle East, but they sure as hell don't want a fundamentalist regime that will just as likely kill them than deal with them.

Communists don't want the Taliban to win because the Taliban defeated the Democratic (Soviet) Republic of Afghanistan.

Obviously the extreme Islamic regimes (Iran et al) want the US to fail. And I'll pay you the drug lords but the CIA was the ones that enabled the Afghanis to set up their drug trade.

China might want America to fail but, again they don't want an unstable regime on their western border considering they have troubles enough with Tibet. You said Russia twice. Pakistan and India also don't want unstable neighbours.

So you not trusting your own "allies" could have something to do with it if they do want you to fail. You're like the head bitchy cheerleader; every wants to be your friend, but everyone cheers when you break your arm.

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, October 20, 2010 3:08 PM (P)

Mike,

India just likes us handing them our empire on a silver platter the way the Brits handed it to us. I'm not sure if they're down with the rise in terrorist we create though.

Meanwhile, as to why we're there, you should keep your WTO map updated. It ain't the oil, though that's a nice benny

If you're not colored in, then we might have to invade. This particular map contains some errors: Turkey keeps jumping in, and Somalia and Eritrea keep jumping out.

Oh, and one of those white things is the Caspian Sea, not a country. yet. :)

gloablists are getting confused. Never did master jigsaw puzzles.

But remember, the crazy guy with a machine gun in McDonalds isn't a genius, he's just got the power because he's doing something the rest of us never thought of: Killing us all.

The globalists aren't an elite force for world peace and prosperity, they're the crazy guy with a machine gun in McDonalds

Quote:
DMAAN

That post is exactly why the Coalition is losing the war and it has nothing to do what you say.

Your logic does not resemble our Earth logic.

The taliban is 30,000 guys. They appear to be kicking our ass at the moment. We seem to out number them 10,000 to one in people, (we're all behind this war effort, since that's where our taxes are going) and we out dollar them million or billions of times, and we out gun them far more than anything else, with about 1/2 the world's firepower to their almost nothing. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

Quote:

Russia and the E.U. might not want a US-dominated Middle East, but they sure as hell don't want a fundamentalist regime that will just as likely kill them than deal with them.

China has also said how much it doesn't want a US-dominated middle east, but you're very wrong if you think any of them cares if a funadmentalist muslim regime controls afghanistan. They don't give a fuck. In fact, the Taliban were in charge for years, and they did nothing, because they didn't care. And still don't. Actually muslim extremists have controlled Afghanistan for centuries.

And yes, no one wants an unstable regime as a neighbor. We and Karzai are an unstable regime. Look how many enemies are trying to topple us. I don't see that the Taliban were an unstable regime, even we weren't trying to topple them until a deal fell through. It wasn't that pipeline either.

I said russia twice, intentionally. And, I'm not America. America doesn't really have any allies. It has one master with a whip, and some little mice that fear us, or them. It's a dysfunctional relationship.

PIRATENEWS

Friday, October 22, 2010 4:59 AM (P)

Vietnamistan MP3 by Alabama 3 (The Sopranos)
http://www.myspace.com/alabama3uk
http://popdefectradio.blogspot.com/2010/10/album-release-media-reprodu
ctions-2010.html

CANTTAKESKY

Friday, October 22, 2010 3:28 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
... every civvie who gets killed as "collateral damage" from our ineffective thrashing... every relative they have then becomes a potential threat to us, this also I warned of going into the situation.

But that's the whole point, dontcha see?

They can't have an endless war against terror unless they can guarantee a steady stream of terrorists.

How to have an endless war:
1. Find some whackjob nuts, no matter how insane and how lame.
2. Carry out a false flag operation and blame said lame whackjob nuts.
3. Go kill a bunch of innocent people under the pretext of hunting said lame whackjob nuts.
4. Whackjob nuts grow in membership in response to senseless killing, thus become a real threat.
5. Get more money and repeat step # 3, except this time, they are no longer as lame.

-----
Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality.
-Theodor Adorno, philosopher and composer (1903-1969)

JAYNEZTOWN

Thursday, April 15, 2021 5:55 AM (P)

The Yankees Are Coming Home: the Taliban Won. Get Over It

http://www.renegadetribune.com/the-yankees-are-coming-home-the-taliban
-won-get-over-it/

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, April 16, 2021 2:27 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
The Yankees Are Coming Home: the Taliban Won. Get Over It

http://www.renegadetribune.com/the-yankees-are-coming-home-the-taliban
-won-get-over-it/

Well, the Taliban was not a formidable foe. But yes, the Biden/Taliban faction was far more of a threat to America, just as non-Libtards knew all along.

SIGNYM

Friday, April 16, 2021 4:10 AM (P)

First post on the topic was 2010. Eleven years later, the inevitable has come to pass.

However, let me point out that if Brzezinski/Carter hadn't decided to fund the"mujahideen" (jihadists) and hadn't decided to overthrow the Soviet-friendly government, Afghanistan would probably today be a secular nation where women would have CONTINUED to make up 40pct of doctors and lawyers, and a significant pct of engineers, instead of a woman-hating, religiously intolerant, corrupt exporter of heroin.

Come to think of it, the USA has destroyed, or attempted to destroy, ALL of the secular nations of the MENA (Afghanistan, Iran under Mossadegh, Iraq, Libya, Syria). We must have a death wish in that region.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

1KIKI

Friday, April 16, 2021 4:52 AM (P)

All this is assuming of course the US doesn't 'withdraw' from Afghanistan under Biden* the way it 'withdrew' from Syria under Trump.

If true, I wonder if the Taliban is benefiting from the Biden* policy of pissing-off both Russia AND China at the same time! Because somebody counted heads and decided there weren't any spare to waste on Afghanistan.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, April 16, 2021 6:31 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
First post on the topic was 2010. Eleven years later, the inevitable has come to pass.

However, let me point out that if Brzezinski/Carter hadn't decided to fund the"mujahideen" (jihadists) and hadn't decided to overthrow the Soviet-friendly government, Afghanistan would probably today be a secular nation where women would have CONTINUED to make up 40pct of doctors and lawyers, and a significant pct of engineers, instead of a woman-hating, religiously intolerant, corrupt exporter of heroin.

Come to think of it, the USA has destroyed, or attempted to destroy, ALL of the secular nations of the MENA (Afghanistan, Iran under Mossadegh, Iraq, Libya, Syria). We must have a death wish in that region.

2010. Well, this is completely different now.
That was the Obama/Biden regime.
Now this is the Obama/Biden/Harris regime.
No similarity whatsoever.
Completely different.
It was just "inevitable."
Too bad we couldn't reinvigorate this War under Trump.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, April 16, 2021 6:38 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
All this is assuming of course the US doesn't 'withdraw' from Afghanistan under Biden* the way it 'withdrew' from Syria under Trump.

If true, I wonder if the Taliban is benefiting from the Biden* policy of pissing-off both Russia AND China at the same time! Because somebody counted heads and decided there weren't any spare to waste on Afghanistan.

That would be weird, illogical.

Trump's Syria plan was foiled by Deep State Libtards whom he had failed to drain from the Swamp. And those Libtards lied to Trump, deceived Trump about their refusal to execute the orders of The Commander-in-Chief.
On the other hand, Lord Darth Obiden only says what his minions tell him to say, do what his babysitters tell him to do.

JAYNEZTOWN

Tuesday, April 20, 2021 7:03 PM (P)

Trump says Biden's plan to withdraw US troops from Afghanistan is a 'wonderful and positive thing to do'

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-says-bidens-plan-withdraw-104604378.ht
ml

Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan is a terrible risk
https://tucson.com/opinion/national/bidens-withdrawal-from-afghanistan
-is-a-terrible-risk/article_990690bf-6c7f-53da-b674-e1fd9786ec6f.html

Biden citing the wrong reasons for Afghanistan withdrawal | COMMENTARY
https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-op-0420-goldberg-bide
n-afghanistan-20210419-q6g5ev6f3rhqbh52ao6xbbco7q-story.html

As Biden improves with vets, Afghanistan plan a plus to some
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/As-Biden-improves-with-vets-Afghan
istan-plan-a-16108063.php

'Joe Biden’s big blunder on Afghanistan will backfire'
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/joe-bidens-big-blunder-on-
afghanistan-will-backfire/news-story/737a72dee48ad6fb301020dad3e53d09

'Time to end the forever war': U.S., allied troops to leave Afghanistan by Sept. 11
https://www.thetelegram.com/news/world/time-to-end-the-forever-war-us-
allied-troops-to-leave-afghanistan-by-sept-11-575683/

THG

Tuesday, April 20, 2021 7:39 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

First post on the topic was 2010. Eleven years later, the inevitable has come to pass.

However, let me point out that if Brzezinski/Carter hadn't decided to fund the"mujahideen" (jihadists) and hadn't decided to overthrow the Soviet-friendly government, Afghanistan would probably today be a secular nation where women would have CONTINUED to make up 40pct of doctors and lawyers, and a significant pct of engineers, instead of a woman-hating, religiously intolerant, corrupt exporter of heroin.

Come to think of it, the USA has destroyed, or attempted to destroy, ALL of the secular nations of the MENA (Afghanistan, Iran under Mossadegh, Iraq, Libya, Syria). We must have a death wish in that region.

On December 24, 1979, the Soviet Union invades Afghanistan, under the pretext of upholding the Soviet-Afghan Friendship Treaty of 1978. As midnight approached, the Soviets organized a massive military airlift into Kabul, involving an estimated 280 transport aircraft and three divisions of almost 8,500 men each.

The Soviet invasion was sparked by the weakening of a Pro-Soviet Communist Government in Afghanistan. The Afghan government was failing and the Soviets sent troops to try and prop up their falling “ally”.

Soviets had secured Kabul, deploying a special assault unit against Tajberg Palace. Elements of the Afghan army loyal to Hafizullah Amin put up a fierce, but brief resistance.

On December 27, Babrak Karmal, exiled leader of the Parcham faction of the Marxist People’s Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA), was installed as Afghanistan’s new head of government. And Soviet ground forces entered Afghanistan from the north.

The Soviets, however, were met with fierce resistance when they ventured out of their strongholds into the countryside. Resistance fighters, called mujahidin, saw the Christian or atheist Soviets controlling Afghanistan as a defilement of Islam as well as of their traditional culture. Proclaiming a “jihad”(holy war), they gained the support of the Islamic world.

The mujahidin employed guerrilla tactics against the Soviets. They would attack or raid quickly, then disappear into the mountains, causing great destruction without pitched battles. The fighters used whatever weapons they could grab from the Soviets or were given by the United States.

The tide of the war turned with the 1987 introduction of U.S. shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles. The Stingers allowed the mujahidin to shoot down Soviet planes and helicopters on a regular basis.

New Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev decided it was time to get out. Demoralized and with no victory in sight, Soviet forces started withdrawing in 1988. The last Soviet soldier crossed back across the border on February 15, 1989.

It was the first Soviet military expedition beyond the Eastern bloc since World War II and marked the end of a period of improving relations (known as détente) in the Cold War. Subsequently, the SALT II arms treaty was shelved and the U.S. began to re-arm.

Fifteen thousand Soviet soldiers were killed.

The long-term impact of the invasion and subsequent war was profound. First, the Soviets never recovered from the public relations and financial losses, which significantly contributed to the fall of the Soviet empire in 1991. Secondly, the war created a breeding ground for terrorism and the rise of Osama bin Laden.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/soviet-tanks-roll-into-afg
hanistan

Our commie friends would like to rewrite history but alas, they cannot. Fact, when russia went into Afghanistan the Afghanis not only drove them out, they caused the collapse of the Soviet Union. How funny is that?

T

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, April 20, 2021 7:42 PM (P)

What does it mean to rewriter history?

We have no Russians posting here.

--------------------------------------------------

Imagine the hypocrisy of a government who will allow businesses to card people to get a job or buy groceries, but won't card people to vote in elections and gives millions of non-citizens free money from taxpayers.

THG

Tuesday, April 20, 2021 8:46 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

All this is assuming of course the US doesn't 'withdraw' from Afghanistan under Biden* the way it 'withdrew' from Syria under Trump.

If true, I wonder if the Taliban is benefiting from the Biden* policy of pissing-off both Russia AND China at the same time! Because somebody counted heads and decided there weren't any spare to waste on Afghanistan.

T

NATO forces will withdraw from Afghanistan by the end of 2014, which will add new security pressures on China's western border. CCTV America's Han Peng reports on the Chinese military effort to prevent terrorists from entering their country.

THG

Tuesday, April 20, 2021 8:55 PM (P)

T

President Joe Biden’s withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan by September is a “key stroke” in the administration’s “broader international policy” as bigger threats to the US have emerged.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, April 20, 2021 8:59 PM (P)

You're welcome, Ted.

I'll waive the administrative fees for copy editing today.

--------------------------------------------------

Imagine the hypocrisy of a government who will allow businesses to card people to get a job or buy groceries, but won't card people to vote in elections and gives millions of non-citizens free money from taxpayers.

THG

Tuesday, April 20, 2021 9:01 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
First post on the topic was 2010. Eleven years later, the inevitable has come to pass.

However, let me point out that if Brzezinski/Carter hadn't decided to fund the"mujahideen" (jihadists) and hadn't decided to overthrow the Soviet-friendly government, Afghanistan would probably today be a secular nation where women would have CONTINUED to make up 40pct of doctors and lawyers, and a significant pct of engineers, instead of a woman-hating, religiously intolerant, corrupt exporter of heroin.

Come to think of it, the USA has destroyed, or attempted to destroy, ALL of the secular nations of the MENA (Afghanistan, Iran under Mossadegh, Iraq, Libya, Syria). We must have a death wish in that region.
2010. Well, this is completely different now.
That was the Obama/Biden regime.
Now this is the Obama/Biden/Harris regime.
No similarity whatsoever.
Completely different.
It was just "inevitable."
Too bad we couldn't reinvigorate this War under Trump.

T

Afghan Troop Withdrawal Doesn't Mean US Is Giving Up Against Taliban. The US is likely to maintain a shadow military and intelligence presence in Afghanistan even after it withdraws its ground troops from the country by September 2021.

The US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin has said the America would continue to support the Afghan government’s military after the drawdown and hinted at a possible “counterterrorism” force in the region that could strike targets in Afghanistan.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, April 20, 2021 9:11 PM (P)

Yup. lol

Democrats aren't ending the war. The Democrats love war.

So does the Legacy Media, Big Corporations and the Military Industrial Complex, which are now all behind the Democrat Party.

--------------------------------------------------

Imagine the hypocrisy of a government who will allow businesses to card people to get a job or buy groceries, but won't card people to vote in elections and gives millions of non-citizens free money from taxpayers.

JAYNEZTOWN

Sunday, April 25, 2021 4:59 PM (P)

After Afghanistan: Last Lesson From Vietnam, Part II

https://www.thebattleground.eu/articles/2021/04/19/after-afghanistan/

REAVERFAN

Sunday, April 25, 2021 5:01 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Yup. lol

Democrats aren't ending the war. The Democrats love war.

So does the Legacy Media, Big Corporations and the Military Industrial Complex, which are now all behind the Democrat Party.

Yes. Glad the Republicans voted against all that war spending.

JAYNEZTOWN

Sunday, May 2, 2021 1:31 PM (P)

Taliban Overrun Afghan Base, Capture Troops as US, NATO Forces Exit

https://www.voanews.com/south-central-asia/taliban-overrun-afghan-base
-capture-troops-us-nato-forces-exit

JAYNEZTOWN

Sunday, May 2, 2021 1:38 PM (P)

Taliban attacks airfield as U.S. troops begin withdrawal from Afghanistan

https://news.yahoo.com/taliban-attacks-airfield-u-troops-225117106.htm
l

JAYNEZTOWN

Sunday, May 9, 2021 10:41 PM (P)

Death toll soars to 50 in school bombing in Afghan capital

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/death-toll-soars-50-sch
ool-bombing-afghan-capital-77583244?cid=clicksource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_headlines_hed

The religion of massacres, a relion of death and slavery and people cut up or blown apart, religion of body pieces ... the mohammedans on the rampage, killing slightly different Muslims in the name of the Babylonian Arabic moon god named al-Lah.

Twitter and Facebook will censor, Liveleak news is no more and what on the Democrat Party censorship policies... women killed a few times over in Afghanistan, you doubt too many people disbelieve it to the point where they need to see the proof these days. No the amendment rights don’t apply to those who do not accept the official narrative of the current Rulers / Admin?

Commiefornia knows the answer?
Early Release for up to 76,000 California Inmates
https://moonbattery.com/early-release-for-up-to-76000-california-inmat
es/

Will France be the first nation in Europe to fall to Islam?
https://sheikyermami.com/2021/05/will-france-be-the-first-nation-in-eu
rope-to-fall-to-islam/

France: Muslim schoolgirl admits her lie got teacher Samuel Paty beheaded by Muslim jihadi
https://creepingsharia.tumblr.com/post/645546744444289024/france-musli
m-schoolgirl-admits-her-lie-got

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2021/05/nigeria-muslims-screaming-allahu-ak
bar-murder-12-christian-farmers-pregnant-woman-and-three-year-old-child

Bombing outside girls’ school in Afghanistan kills 50
https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending/bombing-outside-girls-schoo
l-afghanistan-kills-50-injures-100/33G4QNPQJVEMLNAZ3T6RHC4HVY/

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, May 10, 2021 6:19 AM (P)

Remember 2016 to 2020 when we didn't hear the word Afghanistan once?

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

THG

Monday, May 10, 2021 7:19 PM (P)

The US did not fail in Afghanistan. Afghanistan failed itself. For twenty years we’ve supported them as they’ve determined who they are going to be. We’ve maintained the peace while they do so. They are still struggling amongst themselves to answer that question which is regrettable.

Being there didn’t destroy our economy like it did Russia. We are not turning tail and running. We have determined our own fate while there and proved ourselves dominant. It is just that it is time to leave. Afghanistan is a radical entity bathed in religion with a large dose of stupid. I hope they find their way into the twenty first century.

That said, we'll be right next door.

T

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, May 10, 2021 8:49 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
The US did not fail in Afghanistan. Afghanistan failed itself. For twenty years we’ve supported them as they’ve determined who they are going to be. We’ve maintained the peace while they do so. They are still struggling amongst themselves to answer that question which is regrettable.

Being there didn’t destroy our economy like it did Russia. We are not turning tail and running. We have determined our own fate while there and proved ourselves dominant. It is just that it is time to leave. Afghanistan is a radical entity bathed in religion with a large dose of stupid. I hope they find their way into the twenty first century.

That said, we'll be right next door.

T

Anybody care to dig up Ted's posts about this topic between the years 2016 and 2020.

I guaranty you they sound nothing like this one.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

JAYNEZTOWN

Friday, May 14, 2021 3:12 AM (P)

Taliban capture Afghan district ahead of Eid ceasefire
https://news.yahoo.com/taliban-capture-afghan-district-ahead-092904942
.html

JAYNEZTOWN

Friday, August 6, 2021 8:26 PM (P)

Afghan Taliban kill head of government media department

https://nypost.com/2021/08/06/afghan-taliban-kill-head-of-government-m
edia-department/

JAYNEZTOWN

Saturday, August 14, 2021 1:22 AM (P)

Biden keeps low public profile as more territory falls to Taliban in Afghanistan
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/biden-keeps-low-public-profile-170800062.htm
l

Trump blasts the 'tragic mess' Biden has left in Afghanistan as US embassy staff pack up, prepare to destroy papers and computers
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9891193/Trump-blasts-tragic-m
ess-Biden-left-Afghanistan-embassy-staff-pack-up.html

Biden faces mounting criticism as Taliban advances
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2021/aug/13/joe-biden-taliban
-afghanistan-mitch-mcconnell-coronavirus-covid-cases-us-politics-latest

The Taliban Now Controls Over Two Thirds of Afghanistan as Biden Pulls Out
https://floridianpress.com/2021/08/taliban-now-controls-over-two-third
s-of-afghanistan-as-biden-pulls-out/

DREAMTROVE

Saturday, August 14, 2021 2:03 AM (P)

whole lot of necroposting going on
that said, yeah looks like they won
but remember, afghanistan, where empires go to die
keep the shiny side up

WHOZIT

Saturday, August 14, 2021 2:04 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Biden keeps low public profile as more territory falls to Taliban in Afghanistan
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/biden-keeps-low-public-profile-170800062.htm
l

Trump blasts the 'tragic mess' Biden has left in Afghanistan as US embassy staff pack up, prepare to destroy papers and computers
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9891193/Trump-blasts-tragic-m
ess-Biden-left-Afghanistan-embassy-staff-pack-up.html

Biden faces mounting criticism as Taliban advances
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2021/aug/13/joe-biden-taliban
-afghanistan-mitch-mcconnell-coronavirus-covid-cases-us-politics-latest

The Taliban Now Controls Over Two Thirds of Afghanistan as Biden Pulls Out
https://floridianpress.com/2021/08/taliban-now-controls-over-two-third
s-of-afghanistan-as-biden-pulls-out/

At 4 p.m. EST FOX and MSNBC led the news with Afghanistan, CNN leads with COVID-19

SIGNYM

Saturday, August 14, 2021 2:09 AM (P)

Like Vietnam all over again.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

1KIKI

Saturday, August 14, 2021 3:29 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

The US isn't entirely out of Afghanistan. There is still plenty of bombing and covert ops going on. I do wonder how the CIA self-funding heroin business is going on tho. My sense is that despite all appearances, that will carry on as per usual (unless they've largely supplanted that trade with other drugs in other countries and no longer need the Golden Triangle).

Joe* is trying to negotiate with other countries to carry the white man's burden. I guess we'll see just how vital other countries think Afghanistan is to their own welfare.

OH ... yeah. This'll be a good opportunity to see how quickly Afghanistan disappears from the news*. The more we read about how the those poor people are suffering because of US laziness and perfidy, the more it'll appear that the Deep State is still running the Afghanistan War show.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Despite your claim to Afghani's laziness and perfidy being at the root of their suffering - they were doing just fine until the US decided to fund the Taliban in the 80's. Because ... RUSSIA!!! RUSSIA!!! RUSSIA!!! And then there was the CIA-funded drug trade which put a LOT of money - and weapons - into the hands of the warlords and Taliban, against which common people had no defense.

The obscene volume of money funding the drug trade is unstoppable.

And just to put this back OT: "A thread for Democrats Only" - these policies were pursued vigorously by democrats*.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61954&p=113

JAYNEZTOWN

Sunday, August 15, 2021 2:50 AM (P)

reports

,

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, August 15, 2021 3:23 AM (P)

I couldn't give two shits about Afghanistan or anybody claiming that Joe* is abandoning them.

Anybody on the Right Wing that is taking advantage of this one is putting their own hypocrisy on display.

Fuck the never-ending war. Stop meddling with other people's affairs and giving shit away for free.

Good for you, Joe*

And yes. That is a sentence that I just said.

I don't expect to be saying it again any time soon.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

SECOND

Sunday, August 15, 2021 5:24 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Like Vietnam all over again.

1975 April 23: President Gerald Ford says the Vietnam War is finished as far as America is concerned. “Today, Americans can regain the sense of pride that existed before Vietnam. But it cannot be achieved by re-fighting a war.” The South Vietnamese were desperately pleading for U.S. support as the North Vietnamese surrounded Saigon for the final assault on the capital city.

The North Vietnamese had launched a major offensive in March to capture the provincial capital of Ban Me Thuot (Darlac province) in the Central Highlands. The South Vietnamese defenders there fought very poorly and were quickly overwhelmed by the North Vietnamese attackers.

President Thieu resigned and transferred authority to Vice President Tran Van Huong before fleeing Saigon on April 25.

By April 27, the North Vietnamese had completely encircled Saigon. By the morning of April 30, it was all over. When the North Vietnamese tanks crashed through the gates of the Presidential Palace in Saigon, the South Vietnamese surrendered and the Vietnam War was officially over.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ford-says-that-war-is-fini
shed-for-america

Afghan president Ashraf Ghani might actually welcome the Taliban, making Afghanistan slightly different than Vietnam. Or the Taliban might behead President Ashraf Ghani, another possible difference, because he is a puppet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashraf_Ghani#Relations_with_Taliban

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

DREAMTROVE

Sunday, August 15, 2021 7:08 AM (P)

This was a pointless war. The locals don't want us there. They don't love the taliban, but they seem to admit that the taliban is mostly local, and the people I know in the area tell me the war only solidifies taliban power, because it makes it about warfare, something the taliban is good at. If combatants leave, eventually it'll become about democracy, and then the people will have the chance to challenge the taliban in elections, even if that has to be fought at a very local level. It's Bush idiocy which dragged on way too long after him

SECOND

Sunday, August 15, 2021 7:24 AM (P)

In hindsight, suddenly everyone knows why the Afghan army collapsed

“We realized that this is not going to work. We had made a big bet only to learn that our local partner was rotten.”

Let's round this all up:

Hubristic nation building.
Starry-eyed constitution writing.
Wildly unrealistic military training.
Vast corruption.
Lack of food and weapons for Afghan soldiers.
Bad negotiating from the Trump administration.
Afghan leadership void.

I'm sure glad everyone is finally able to admit this now that the war is over, but it sure sounds like it's been common knowledge for at least a decade. This is why I think it's folly to suggest that things would have been any different if we'd waited another six months before withdrawing.

There's no question that the US policy class has a lot to answer for here, but the bulk of the blame has to be placed on the US Army. They were the ones on the ground. They were the ones who built an Afghan military that was completely unsuitable to the country. They're the ones who apparently never grasped the full extent of the corruption they were up against. They were the ones who advised four different US presidents that things were going well if they could just have a little more time and a few more troops.

The US military is hardly the only organization that hates to be the bearer of bad news. Nor are they the only organization that hates to admit they can't do the job they're being asked to do. But an unwillingness to do these things was one of the primary reasons we lost Vietnam, and our military leadership at the time swore it would never happen again.

But it did, just as soon as they found themselves in a similar situation. I remember years and years of blathering about counterinsurgency during the aughts, with army officers insisting that we could learn how to do it and skeptics pointing out that there were practically no examples of successful Western counterinsurgencies in the entire era since World War II. But after David Petraeus left the scene everyone got tired of this stuff and the nation's op-ed pages moved on to other things.

But guess what? The skeptics were right.

More at https://jabberwocking.com/in-hindsight-suddenly-everyone-knows-why-the
-afghan-army-collapsed/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, August 15, 2021 9:51 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
But guess what? The skeptics were right.

Yup.

And 20 years from now the people that are still alive will say the same thing about the skeptics of the vaccine.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

JAYNEZTOWN

Sunday, August 15, 2021 5:12 PM (P)

Did this war have any real objective?

Looking across feeds and message boards, the Afghan failure has almost become an endless historical meme, its where Empires made their own Coffin

It looks like the entire country may fall to the Taliban very soon, at times there seesm to have been very little difference between Saudi jihadi backed wahhabism groups, Pakistani islamists, Al-Qaeda and Taliban almost brothers of sorts in this radical mohammedanism.

The Taliban enters Kabul, leaves Afghan government on brink of collapse
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142785364
Taliban militants have entered the outskirts of the capital Kabul
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3985152/posts#comment

The Taliban thanks you Joe for all the weapons you left them
https://www.liberalforum.org/topic/345524-the-taliban-thanks-you-joe-f
or-all-the-weapons-you-left-them-what-a-fucking-moron/

Taliban 'take over Jalalabad' just 80 miles from Kabul and warn US to cease airstrikes or else extremist fighters will descend on the Afghan capital before 'more than 10,000' Americans are able to evacuate
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9894781/Taliban-takes-Jalalab
ad-warns-cease-airstrikes-descend-Kabul.html

Quote:

The Taliban seize last major city outside of Afghanistan's capital

https://www.cbc.ca/news/taliban-jalalabad-1.6141568

New equipment weapons?
https://gab.com/MorpheusMAGA/posts/106757824624147279

Kabul
https://www.bitchute.com/video/f6CR9GVmjENU/

Taliban control all key Afghan cities except Kabul
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58219169

As US Pulls Out, Taliban Moves in...Hard
https://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/143784-Afghanistan-As-US-Pulls-
Out-Taliban-Moves-in-Hard

Afghanistan Is in Freefall. America Must Punish Pakistan For Its Role.
https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/afghanistan-is-in-freefall-amer
ica-must-punish-pakistan-for-its-role.913454/

Kabul is now officially a fortress
https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&p=15185518#
p15185518

Taliban Seizes Massive Stash of US Weapons of War in Afghanistan Blitz
https://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/3294135-t
aliban-seizes-massive-stash-us-weapons-4.html

Quote:

Quote
The POTUS decides to be a chicken, pulls out of Afghanistan
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/the-potus-decides-to-be-a-chick
en-pulls-out-of-afghanistan.669399/

Old Armchair roleplay speculation?
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/payday-cops-vs-taliban.318943/
India
https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/india-in-afghanistan-regional-di
plomacy-and-interests-after-us-withdrawal.82850/page-36
Pak military, Taliban unite against India
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Pak_military__Taliban_unite_agains
t_India/155-806607/

Who will explain us how an army of 300.000 , well equipped , trained for 20 years by US Flag of United States lost in some weeks against Talibans ???

https://twitter.com/InfoWarriorNews/status/1426891788825022464

Old post asks about military intervention...
http://www.canadaka.net/forums/current-events-f59/was-western-military
-intervention-against-taliban-and-in-lib-t115301.html

The Afghanistan War
https://www.defencetalk.com/military/forums/t/afghanistan-war.13625/pa
ge-18

Afghanistan Army surrenders to Taliban
https://debatepolitics.com/threads/afghanistan-army-surrenders-to-tali
ban.453274/

SECOND

Sunday, August 15, 2021 6:02 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Did this war have any real objective?

The objective was to find Osama bin Laden wherever he was hiding inside Afghanistan.

It was not very odd, but Osama bin Laden was found May 2, 2011 in Abbottabad, Pakistan, because bin Laden was obviously smarter than the Pentagon planners.

During the 10 years looking for bin Laden in the one place in the world he was LEAST likely to be, the Pentagon had to invent other work to justify thousands of soldiers roaming around Afghanistan.

Once bin Laden was dead in 2011, the Pentagon should have been ordered to leave, but make-work projects and games invented by the Pentagon kept soldiers in Afghanistan. Apparently, neither Obama nor Trump had the guts to tell headstrong and unwise Generals that the Pentagon's playtime in Afghanistan was over. Now it is time for the make-work to end. The Pentagon's games are over and the Taliban will take control of the field and play their games.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

SECOND

Sunday, August 15, 2021 6:31 PM (P)

Here’s what 19-year-old Lance Cpl. William Bee felt flying into southern Afghanistan on Christmas Day 2001: purely lucky. The U.S. was hitting back at the al-Qaida plotters who had brought down the World Trade Center, and Bee found himself among the first Marines on the ground.

“Excitement,” Bee says these days, of the teenage Bee’s thoughts then. “To be the dudes that got to open it up first.”

In the decade that followed, three more deployments in America’s longest war scoured away that lucky feeling.

For Bee, it came down to a night in 2008 in Afghanistan’s Helmand province. By then a sergeant, Bee held the hand of an American sniper who had just been shot in the head, as a medic sliced open the man’s throat for an airway.

“After that it was like, you know what — ‘F- - - these people,’ ” Bee recounted, of what drove him by his fourth, and final, Afghan deployment. “I just want to bring my guys back. That’s all I care about. I want to bring them home.”

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-afghanistan-faba8ca09a65e072bb7d8
3155fa6855f

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

WHOZIT

Sunday, August 15, 2021 7:19 PM (P)

We spent years there, it's falling apart in days.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, August 15, 2021 7:29 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Did this war have any real objective?

It made the Bushes, Clintons, Cheneys and the Obamas a lot of fuckin' money.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, August 15, 2021 8:00 PM (P)

Ultra-Left Missing Link Media not happy with Uncle Joey*.

https://gen.medium.com/bidens-folly-c84bcf2451c5

Quote:
This being modern American politics, there is of course a Trump angle. Axios reports: “West Wing officials reject the notion that they could keep Afghanistan stable indefinitely with a small force of around 3,000 that they inherited from Trump. The Biden team’s line is that the only reason the Taliban wasn’t killing Americans last year was because Trump had agreed to leave on May 1 this year. When that deadline passed, they contend, there would be no way to guarantee peace and stability with such a small force.”

Most everything in the world can be blamed (or partially blamed) on former President Trump. We know this from watching MSNBC. But this one is all Biden. What Trump left behind could have been undone with the stroke of a presidential pen. The idea that Trump made them do it is risible.

And just for the record, what Trump left behind was not 3000 US personnel in Afghanistan. That’s not how it works. If you include everyone in (just) the special operations “network,” including the locals, logistics, coordinators, intelligence analysts and air support, the numbers (at least) quintuple. We were spending a lot of money in Afghanistan and spreading it around. It was effective. We had eyes and ears everywhere. (And by the way, NATO is evacuating 8000+ personnel).

When President Biden first announced that the US would be “leaving” Afghanistan, he set September 11, 2021 as the date when every last one of our people would be out. The announcement was greeted with astonished disbelief around the world. Could it really be possible that the US would officially hand over Afghanistan to the people who made it possible for Al Qaeda to attack it 20 years ago………on the very day of that attack?

The answer was “yes,” although the Administration subsequently tried to walk it back without bringing attention to the fact that they were trying to walk it back.

Remarkably, the American press gave the president a pass on this, which seems to be its default setting when it comes to the Biden administration. “Trump was so much worse,” is the always-applicable rationale.

Not in this case. Not by a long shot.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

SECOND

Sunday, August 15, 2021 8:45 PM (P)

Oct. 13, 2009

From the moment they took office, Mr. Biden has been Mr. Obama’s in-house pessimist on Afghanistan, the strongest voice against further escalation of American forces there and the leading doubter of the president’s strategy. It was a role that may have been lonely at first, but has attracted more company inside the White House as Mr. Obama rethinks the strategy he unveiled just seven months ago.

For Mr. Biden, a longtime senator who prided himself on his experience in foreign relations, the role represents an evolution in his own thinking, a shift from his days as a liberal hawk advocating for American involvement in Afghanistan. Month by month, year by year, the story of Mr. Biden’s disenchantment with the Afghan government, and by extension with the engagement there, mirrors America’s slow but steady turn against the war, with just 37 percent supporting more troops in last week’s CBS News poll.

“He came to question some of the assumptions and began asking questions about whether there might be other approaches that might get you as good or better results at lower cost,” said Richard N. Haass, the president of the Council on Foreign Relations, who has been consulted by Mr. Biden on the matter.

Mr. Biden does not favor abandoning Afghanistan, but his approach would reject the additional troops sought by Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal and leave the American force in Afghanistan roughly the same, 68,000 troops. Rather than emphasize protecting the Afghan population, he would accelerate training of Afghans to take over the fight while hunting Al Qaeda in Pakistan using drones and special forces. His view has caught on with many liberals in his party.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210704104838/https://www.nytimes.com/200
9/10/14/world/14biden.html

That was Oct. 13, 2009. Since then, the Afghans did NOT take over the fight. Instead, they run or surrender or die. For example: Afghan president flees the country as Taliban move on Kabul
https://apnews.com/article/afghanistan-taliban-kabul-bagram-e1ed33fe0c
665ee67ba132c51b8e32a5

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

JAYNEZTOWN

Monday, August 16, 2021 1:05 AM (P)

Scalise calls Taliban encroachment Biden's 'Saigon moment'
https://news.yahoo.com/scalise-calls-taliban-encroachment-bidens-17070
0626.html

General Milley warns of terror threats to US homeland after Afghanistan falls to Taliban & US ambassador flees Kabul
https://www.the-sun.com/news/3478882/general-milley-warns-terror-threa
t-afghanistan-taliban/

Harris says she had key role in Biden's Afghanistan withdrawal decision
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/25/harris-afghanistan-biden-with
drawal-decision-484581

I will post some Bitchute and Dailymotion and Gab links in case youtube starts to ban and delete shit
Afghan President flees Afghanistan as Taliban seizes Kabul
https://www.bitchute.com/video/zsCXNncXX7Q/
Taliban militants now inside the presidential palace
https://gab.com/disclosetv/posts/106761574323431054
U.N. Urges Taliban To Stop Offensive, Negotiate
https://rumble.com/vl480o-u.n.-urges-taliban-to-stop-offensive-negotia
te.html
Over running cities
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x83f4z0

WARNING

Disturbing news

I can't watch this, but news reports out there say kids are being married off to the Taliban
https://twitter.com/MauriceMartin01/status/1426591184835723269

Quote:
Les filles de 12 ans et plus sont emmenées pour être donner en mariage aux soldats taliban
La charria a commencé et les jeunes filles comme les femmes vont vivre la terreur de ces barbares

https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=180837
Taliban in Afghanistan taking young girl sex slaves

Oh, Great. The Taliban Is Already Holding Military Parades... With Our Weapons?
https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/oh-great-the-taliban-is-already
-holding-military-parades-with-our-weapons.906317/

Biden on Afghanistan: Not my problem
https://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/143890-Biden-Says-Afghanistan-N
ot-Our-Problem-But

Afghan president flees the country as Taliban move on Kabul
https://debatepolitics.com/threads/afghan-president-flees-the-country-
as-taliban-move-on-kabul.457328/

Canadian special forces ready to evacuate embassy
http://www.canadaka.net/forums/current-events-f59/canadian-special-for
ces-ready-to-evacuate-embassy-after-kand-t125521.html

CNN’s Tapper on Afghanistan: ‘Shocking that President Biden Could Have Been So Wrong’
https://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/3294452-c
nn-s-tapper-afghanistan-shocking-president.html

Canadian special forces ready to evacuate embassy
http://www.canadaka.net/forums/current-events-f59/canadian-special-for
ces-ready-to-evacuate-embassy-after-kand-t125521.html

These jihadi pedos they also target young boys btw, Bacha bazi a moslem custom that involves forced to dress as women and to dance for an audience of older terroristic islamic men

Some youtube news
Says panic is happening and they are Getting over-Run

but there is still a chance to hit them with Air Power

Boris Johnson to recall Parliament to discuss Taliban takeover of Afghanistan
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-08-15/boris-johnson-to-recall-parliament
-to-discuss-taliban-takeover-of-afghanistan

War in Afghanistan: President Ashraf Ghani flees country as Taliban reach Kabul
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/war-in-afghanis
tan-live-updates-taliban-entering-kabul-from-all-sides/news-story/c3d33e8ff49d06e1c9c9f0a58906636a

JAYNEZTOWN

Monday, August 16, 2021 1:19 AM (P)

Taliban are reciting prayers from the Quran in Kabul's Presidential Palace tonight and they are thanking some demonic pedophile terroristic Moongod called al-Lah, thanking this old pagan Arab Vedic god for their success.

Chaos at # Kabul airport: Hundreds want to leave Afghanistan and are panicking. Gunshots can be heard.
https://twitter.com/EAB01493063/status/1426993046718140426

CNN's Jeremy Diamond says there are "no indications that President Biden is going to address the nation" on #Afghanistan any time soon.
"The moment that we are in today certainly would call for hearing from the president of the United States."
https://twitter.com/thejcoop/status/1426982646874316807

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
In the decade that followed, three more deployments in America’s longest war scoured away that lucky feeling.

I do however agree the war has gone on far too long

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
We spent years there, it's falling apart in days.

Maybe there were islamic mohammedan guys on the inside helping the Taliban

The chances of warlords or Al-Qaeda or some units of taliban taking Western people as hostages is now possible.

https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1426698287155908613
' Choosing to lose a war, and to relegate a country to a new dark age, is terrible. But doing very little to ensure that those who helped us, and those who counted on us, can reach safety before we leave, adds the dishonor of abandonment to the disgrace of defeat. '

JAYNEZTOWN

Monday, August 16, 2021 3:28 AM (P)

British parliamentary Foreign Affairs Select Committee chairman Tom Tugendhat stated that the collapse was "the biggest single policy disaster since Suez". Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced that he would be recalling parliament to debate the situation.
The Russian Embassy in Kabul stated that it would not evacuate or close the embassy, with a Taliban spokesperson guaranteeing the embassy's safety.
The French government announced that it would be holding an emergency Defence Council meeting on 16 August presided by President Emmanuel Macron to address the situation.
Ann Linde, Swedish Minister for Foreign Affairs, stated that the collapse of the Afghan government had "gone much faster than anyone had expected." Public broadcaster Sveriges Radio further reported that the Swedish embassy was evacuating its staff. Austrian Foreign Minister Alexander Schallenberg warned that "conflict and instability in the region will sooner or later spill over to Europe."

'This is manifestly not Saigon': Blinken

Taliban's Afghanistan advance tests Biden's 'America is back' foreign policy promise
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/14/talibans-afgha
nistan-advance-tests-bidens-america-back-policy/8121040002/

Afghanistan conflict: As Kabul falls, Biden backlash grows
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58224399

Fall of Kabul
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Kabul_(2021)

Quote:
The fall of Kabul, also called the siege or surrender of Kabul,[8] is the near-culmination of the 2021 Taliban offensive in the war in Afghanistan, which began in 2001. It reached a climax on 15 August 2021, when Taliban forces entered the capital city of Kabul, hours after President Ashraf Ghani fled the country and abandoned the Afghan government. One-by-one, the provincial capitals of Afghanistan had fallen in midst of a U.S. troop withdrawal to be completed by the end of August.

Tense negotiations are ongoing between a Taliban delegation and Afghan officials.A peaceful transfer of power has been requested by the Taliban, and the government has declared its willingness to abide. However, the government has requested that power be transferred to a transitional government, while the Taliban desires a complete transfer of power. NATO forces still maintained a presence in Kabul as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fall_of_Kabul_%282021%29

Taliban enter Afghan capital as president and diplomats flee
https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/taliban-enter-afghan-capital-as-
president-and-diplomats-flee

the jihadi islamist e Taliban is being met with almost no opposition the terror group takes control of the Afghanistan regions

BREAKING: What You’re NOT Hearing About Afghanistan NOW
https://www.bitchute.com/video/YbPMvt1qgFI/

Republicans argue the 'catastrophe' unfolding in Afghanistan could have been avoided
https://www.bitchute.com/video/QpHE0b3t4pU/

Total chaos at Kabul airport. People try to get flights out of Afghanistan.
https://twitter.com/BattleNewsTop/status/1427004637312438276

the Taliban went into the city of Kabul, which is the capital of Afghanistan. This means that visuall and on tv propaganda it looks like they will win the war against the US backed Afghan government.

SECOND

Monday, August 16, 2021 3:49 AM (P)

The quick collapse of the Afghan army after 20 years and tens of billions spent on training and equipment is the clearest possible evidence that there was no path to victory or stability in Afghanistan.

No withdrawal at all and a protracted tug-of-war with senior U.S. military officers deeply invested in putting off unpleasant decisions about an Afghan project that has defined so many military careers are not options.

Biden looks determined not to let the military leadership do to him what it did to Obama a decade ago. Obama was jammed by the military leadership into what proved to be an aimless, futile surge of US forces into Afghanistan.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

DREAMTROVE

Monday, August 16, 2021 5:21 AM (P)

https://www.rt.com/news/532111-taliban-presidential-palace-kabul/

President flees

JAYNEZTOWN

Monday, August 16, 2021 5:02 PM (P)

Images of people running in fear, Afghan runners clinging to the C-17 perhaps make Vietnam look tame.
It's true America has been in Afghanistan far too long but was this the way to leave? Sure the USA wasted enough cash ands time and blood and dollars and energy and money burning $ over there and men hurt from war...but can you hand over different, pull out a better way?
Taliban now shows off missiles and helicopters and other weapons that Biden left for them

Gun-Control Biden Gave the Taliban HighTech Guns
https://www.the-sun.com/news/3228966/taliban-new-weapons-us-afghan-off
icials-flee/

Joe Biden is still on holidays, he is on vacation.
Kamala Harris last month gave herself credit for this kaBulshit

everyone in the USA and even in worldmedia is focused on the Jan Riot or on LGBT tranny toilets or on muh covid hospital numbers & vaccine cell phone passports and keeping Trump banned from speaking
One condition was to keep Afghanistan from ever being another place whee terrorist cells could grow.

New Zealand knows its over, NZ is now worried, it is to deploy aircraft to pick up citizens from Kabul as well as Afghans who assisted New Zealand Government during 20 year Defence Force deployment
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/449276/new-zealanders-at-risk-afg
han-nationals-being-helped-to-leave-afghanistan

It has become an un-imaginable scene like something from a scifi zombie horror apocalypse movie but this is the real world and real life film, photos and news reports
The followers of Mahomet, a Babylon Vedic god of rape in the Quran or Koran, an old pagan Arabic god of looting, pedophiles and war and fundamentalism have taken over the country, the Taliban they are friends and brothers to other islamist groups, most of the time as they over-ran regions and towns they simply walked in without a fight....terrorist criminals have been broken out of the jails.
They now have cpollected US funded weaponry. The guys Fly a White flag with Black Writing a kind of Mirror image of the ISIS flag.

The population of people are in panic, they try getting out in fear.
People storm sky bridge in bid to leave Afghan capital
https://www.bitchute.com/video/6_HUqSA2MYM/
Online gossip linked to Russians say the ex-Afghan President tried to flee witha Bag of Five Million Dollars?
https://gab.com/BrentRBrian/posts/106765363665849469

Quote:
'Saigon nightmares returning'

https://gab.com/MarcusAgrippa/posts/106765298376817447
Taliban’s control of Afghanistan will have ‘far-reaching’ implications
https://www.bitchute.com/video/GIXaIZm_Gp4/
Thousands try to flee in panic
https://www.minds.com/newsfeed/1273797148680392722

Afghanistan is falling
it was all different fighting tribes, now suddenly these tribes have come together and started to over-run everything

America at least is still a Democracy in theory...just maybe...that's why you can hear crazy alternative voice from the Left, the Libertarian and the Right, the elected 'crazy' voices like Majorie Taylor Greene or OANN or 'NEWSMAX' the Intercept, the Social Left types sites, Ron Paul or other people and sites. Leftwing sites detail Lawsuit against Biden Admin they report on how his immigration policy is fialing, illegals still come and Abuse, Neglect of Migrant Children at US Facilities
Almost everyone in the USA was or is focused on the Jan Riot they even have tv show style hollywood hearings, so focused on LGBT tranny toilets in schools, they were also so focused on immigration or muh covid hospital numbers or vaccine passports or US women's soccer at the corona olympic ....or keeping Trump banned from the interwebs...nobody really watching Afghanistan falling.
Was the goal to make it democratic, one big condition was to keep Afghanistan from ever being a safe-haven for terrorists but now Taliban terrorists are back in power.

After 20 yrs of effort how did it all fail???
Haliburton, Clinton with Cheney probably made money
one time they said the goal was to bring 'democracy' to

SIGNYM

Monday, August 16, 2021 7:27 PM (P)

It really is like Vietnam all over again: Scenes of people clining to helicopters taking off of the Embassy roof in Saigon.

Another feckless pointless war.

Yanno, after Vietnam Colim Powell developed what is now known as the "Powell Doctrine"

Is a vital national security interest threatened?
Do we have a clear attainable objective?
Have the risks and costs been fully and frankly analyzed?
Have all other non-violent policy means been fully exhausted?
Is there a plausible exit strategy to avoid endless entanglement?
Have the consequences of our action been fully considered?
Is the action supported by the American people?
Do we have genuine broad international support?

Apparently, we've learned nothing since then! And yes, Pakistan was always involved.

Also, the CIA is/was involved in major drug-growing and drug-smuggling operations in both SE Asia (known at the time as the "Golden Triangle" and smuggled out in CIA-front Air America). In Afghanistan, the Pakistani ISS also took a cut of the heroin being smuggled across its border.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SECOND

Monday, August 16, 2021 7:58 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It really is like Vietnam all over again: Scenes of people clining to helicopters taking off of the Embassy roof in Saigon.

Another feckless pointless war.

I remember what Texans were doing on 9/11/2001: they were demanding revenge. I asked the revenge-minded who they will kill? Their answer: the people who did this. Those people died on 9/11, but that wasn't stopping the calls for revenge. Another Texan, Pres. Bush, called for revenge, so revenge it was gonna be. Unsurprising to me, the revenge minded, at least the ones not dead in 2016 or 2020 from smoking, drinking, gun accidents, over-eating, etc. would be voting for Trump.

I need to say it as plainly as possible: the whole point of the Afghanistan War was revenge. When the US Army couldn't find Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan, the Army imagined new tasks, which it was completely incompetent to perform, in order to justify being in Afghanistan. Too bad President Obama allowed those tasks to continue after Bush left office. Even worse, after bin Laden was dead, Obama did not end those tasks because the GOP would have said that the deaths of American soldiers would be in vain if the Army pulled out before completing tasks it can not complete.
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-d
ead

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

1KIKI

Monday, August 16, 2021 8:15 PM (P)

Obviously the MIC/ spook-state was running foreign policy in Afghanistan and kept the war going for all these years for reason of its own (just like it was running foreign policy in Vietnam then and Syria now).

So my question is - are we out of Afghanistan like we were out of Vietnam? Or out of Afghanistan like we were out of Syria?

SECOND

Monday, August 16, 2021 8:28 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Obviously the MIC/ spook-state was running foreign policy in Afghanistan and kept the war going for all these years for reason of its own (just like it was running foreign policy in Vietnam then and Syria now).

So my question is - are we out of Afghanistan like we were out of Vietnam? Or out of Afghanistan like we were out of Syria?

If Biden is not a fool, and I can't be sure about him, he will make absolutely certain that the CIA is NOT running covert ops in Afghanistan without his permission. And if he does want to live dangerously by giving permission, he will closely supervise the CIA so it does not expand its mission.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

JAYNEZTOWN

Monday, August 16, 2021 10:10 PM (P)

Horrific scenes as people fall from planes in Kabul in bid to escape Taliban

https://au.news.yahoo.com/horrific-scenes-as-bodies-fall-from-planes-i
n-kabul-120529977.html

JAYNEZTOWN

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 2:51 AM (P)

Taliban take civilian weapons, airport in turmoil
https://rumble.com/vl8uv2-taliban-take-civilian-weapons-airport-in-tur
moil.html

Quote:
The mass evacuations and chaos at Kabul's central airport, now under the control of the U.S. military, continued into Monday with at least five people killed in the turmoil. Meanwhile, the Taliban say they're collecting civilians' personal weapons because they'll no longer need them. Matthew Larotonda reports.

US President Joe Biden says Afghanistan's collapse unfolded more quickly than we had anticipated
Joe biden said ‘I Stand Squarely Behind My Decision’

it seems the Taliban are not just in the outskirts of Kabul but in the city, the Airport could be over-run by people trying to flee
Biden also pointed blame and said the Afghans didn't put up much of a fight after all the time and money given to them and might be unwilling to fight for their own nation
President Joe Biden said that he stands “squarely behind” his decision to withdraw U.S. forces from Afghanistan and that the Afghan government’s collapse was quicker than anticipated.

Taliban fighters now patrol inside much of Afghanistan, Biden said part of the mission was to kill bin Laden and not engage in endless nation building.

He had a press conference

President Biden says he stands by his decision to pull US troops out of Afghanistan
https://news.yahoo.com/president-biden-address-nation-afghanistan-1509
17413.html

Biden says he stands ‘squarely behind’ Afghanistan decision
https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2021/08/16/biden-says-he-stands-s
quarely-behind-afghanistan-decision/

Joe Biden says he stands ‘squarely’ behind Afghanistan withdrawal
https://www.afr.com/world/north-america/biden-says-he-stands-squarely-
behind-afghanistan-withdrawal-20210817-p58jb5

JONGSSTRAW

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 5:13 AM (P)

Putin must be laughing his muscular buttocks off over this American calamity. Just a question now of how many thousands of people are the taliban gonna kill in the next few months. 10,000? 50,000? 100,000?

There hasn't been a US combat death there in 13 months. So why this chaotic clusterfuck of a withdrawl now, during the so-called fighting season? Dumbfuck Biden could not have made it any easier for these child rapists and genital mutilators to just waltz right on in.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 5:20 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Putin must be laughing his muscular buttocks off over this American calamity. Just a question now of how many thousands of people are the taliban gonna kill in the next few months. 10,000? 50,000? 100,000?

There hasn't been a US combat death there in 13 months. So why the chaotic clusterfuck of a withdrawl now, during the so-called fighting season? Dumbfuck Biden could not have made it any easier for these child rapists and genital mutilators to just waltz right on in.

Let's see the 1st World Leftist Feminazis come to their defense this time now that we're going to see the depravity that these people and their filthy "religion" are capable of.

P.S. All the European countries that let these degenerates into their space be like "oh shit".

That's on you, Merkel. You piece of shit.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

JONGSSTRAW

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 5:33 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Putin must be laughing his muscular buttocks off over this American calamity. Just a question now of how many thousands of people are the taliban gonna kill in the next few months. 10,000? 50,000? 100,000?

There hasn't been a US combat death there in 13 months. So why the chaotic clusterfuck of a withdrawl now, during the so-called fighting season? Dumbfuck Biden could not have made it any easier for these child rapists and genital mutilators to just waltz right on in.

Let's see the 1st World Leftist Feminazis come to their defense this time now that we're going to see the depravity that these people and their filthy "religion" are capable of.

P.S. All the European countries that let these degenerates into their space be like "oh shit".

That's on you, Merkel. You piece of shit.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

I don't know if we're actually gonna "see" very much of the coming mega-slaughter. And yes, the vile and demented Left will always support senile Joe no matter what he says or does. Same with Merkel, and the rest of socialist Europe. They're all enlightened and such, dontcha know? Fuck 'em. They deserve whatever fallout from those animals they get.

1KIKI

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 6:59 AM (P)

My question to all the people who think the US got out at the wrong time is this:

What would have been so different about the Afghanistan government and army in a few months that would have made the eventual outcome any different? After roughly 2 decades what would have been accomplished that hasn't already been accomplished? Or, to put it more concretely, the US waits a few months for it to be a better time, then withdraws from Afghanistan. And then what?

SECOND

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 7:03 AM (P)

Here is the joke: The situation in Afghanistan makes America look so bad, Texas has already banned schools from teaching it.

Texans aren't laughing: Texas is one of a handful of states that have approved legislation that prescribes how teachers discuss current events.

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/education/2021/06/16/40078
3/texas-critical-race-theory-bill-limiting-teaching-of-current-events-signed-into-law/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

SIGNYM

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 7:42 AM (P)

Because invading Afghanistan violated every principle of the Powell Doctrine, getting out was the only logical thing to do, since we were stupid enough to go in the first place.

Maybe the withdrawal could have been handled better ... more troops to protect evacuation corridors for safer exit ... but overall I think it was the only realistic call.

******

Both the Russians and Chinese have been negotiating with the Taliban. I'll get to that in a moment. At the same time, the Chinese and Russians had large ... not "combined" exercise but BLENDED exercise... with Russian troops using Chinese weapons, shared assessments (with translators at both ends) ... in NW China as a polite reminder to the Taliban that Russia and China have a combined interest in what happens in Afghanistan.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SIGNYM

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 7:58 AM (P)

So, the Russians and Chinese have a deep concern about Afghanistan becoming a source of Islamist terrorism. At the same time, Russia (in particular) does not want to see a country riven by sectarian wars on its doorstep.

Aside from the military threat, the Chinese are willing to invest in Afghanistan provided it behaves itself.

What the Taliban have reportedly promised is

1) A government representing all major ethnic groups, not just the Pashtun Taliban
2) Women's right to education and work, provided they wear a hijab (the least restrictive head covering of Islam)
3) No tolerance of terrorist groups like ISIL or Al Qaida in Afghanistan, and no spillover of terrorist groups (or Taliban militias) across international borders
4) Reduction in opium production.

There have been extensive discussions between Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan about border security.

Curiously, while Pakistan has supported the Taliban in Afghanistan, they have always considered the Pakistani version as terrorist group.

Anyway, with the specter of Chechnya and Syria on one side and the promise of investment on the other, the Sino-Russian (or Russo-Chinese!) combine are trying to corral the Taliban.

So far, I have not heard of any massacres. The Taliban have allowed surrendering troops to leave, if they leave their weapons behind. Only time will tell if the Taliban will stick to their word, or revert to the ultra hard-lines of the past.

This may be a lot like Turkey: Russia is working to corral Erdogan from those actions that conflict with Russian interests, but it's a work in progress.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SIGNYM

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 8:02 AM (P)

Just one more comment: As a result of this, Iran just became a full member of the SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organization) after having been an observing member for 13 years.

So, basically, the USA pulled out and dumped this in Russia's and China's lap. In some ways that was a smart move bc we were spending a lot of $$ stabilizing a situation to Russia's and China's benefit. Russia and China will have to spend $$$ trying to retrieve the situation, and even if they swing Afghanistan around, it's not like it's such a big prize that either big power will get much out of it.

Ya gotta know when to hold 'em.
Know when to fold 'em.
Know when to walk away...

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

1KIKI

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 9:13 AM (P)

I have to say, as tactically bad as the withdrawal was, strategically it was the right move. But the 'optics' might have been better. (Or, it could have been a cluster-eff no matter when it was carried out, and people could have been carping about something else.)

And as anyone knows, I have no love for Biden* in particular, or democrats* in general. So I'm not saying this in defense of either.

In any case, the MIC/ spook-state arm of the Deep State has obviously been running Afghanistan foreign policy for the last 20 years. And they are none too happy about any of this. I've concluded that because there are a LOT of trial balloons about think of the poor Afghanis !! being floated in the m$m. But I don't see a full-scale propaganda effort - yet. What's going on is certainly nothing near the Iraq propaganda effort, or the RUSSIA!!! RUSSIA!!! RUSSIA!!! propaganda effort. It may be that they're looking to see how well that meme will catch on. But my sense is that if they can't reverse the US withdrawal (or not enough to keep the drug trade going), then they want to punish Biden* politically for displeasing them. The situation bears watching, by monitoring which way the m$m will eventually blow.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 10:46 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Putin must be laughing his muscular buttocks off over this American calamity. Just a question now of how many thousands of people are the taliban gonna kill in the next few months. 10,000? 50,000? 100,000?

There hasn't been a US combat death there in 13 months. So why the chaotic clusterfuck of a withdrawl now, during the so-called fighting season? Dumbfuck Biden could not have made it any easier for these child rapists and genital mutilators to just waltz right on in.

Let's see the 1st World Leftist Feminazis come to their defense this time now that we're going to see the depravity that these people and their filthy "religion" are capable of.

P.S. All the European countries that let these degenerates into their space be like "oh shit".

That's on you, Merkel. You piece of shit.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

I don't know if we're actually gonna "see" very much of the coming mega-slaughter. And yes, the vile and demented Left will always support senile Joe no matter what he says or does.

I wasn't talking about Joe*. I was referring to the brain damage necessary for young feminists in America and other 1st world nations to also come out and support the diseased Muslim religion, while the women in Muslim countries look at Western women with disgust for bitching about how bad they've got it. There has never been a more entitled class of people than the modern Western woman.

Quote:
Same with Merkel, and the rest of socialist Europe. They're all enlightened and such, dontcha know? Fuck 'em. They deserve whatever fallout from those animals they get.

Yeah. But I do feel bad for all of them that weren't on board. We didn't hear much from them because they were silenced, but there were a LOT of 'em.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

SECOND

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 3:50 PM (P)

What Does the Fall of Saigon Really Have to Teach Us About Afghanistan? The comparisons may have less to do with history than a right-wing fixation.

How did American memory of the events of the fall of Saigon change over the years?

At the time of the war itself, right up to and including the fall of Saigon, the overwhelming majority of Americans had come to the conclusion that the war was, at the very least, a horrible mistake. By the early 1970s, a majority of Americans had concluded that the war was immoral.

But by the time that Reagan became president in 1981, the political shift to the right had created a story about the Vietnam War that focused American attention on the idea that the war was a noble cause—could have been won, should have been won. And that a victory didn’t happen because we didn’t try hard enough, we quote-unquote denied our soldiers permission to win. Many Americans were wanting to restore a sense of national pride, prestige, and patriotism.

That was the creation of an image of Vietnam veterans as the key symbol of the war. Many parts of the culture were encouraging Americans to pay attention to and honor Vietnam veterans—part of the larger sort of project to make the experience of Vietnam into an American tragedy, rather than pay attention to the damage and wreckage that the United States had brought to Vietnam. So, for example, by the 1980s, if you asked Americans how many Vietnamese died in the war, there were a couple of polls where people would guess something like 100,000 or so, when in fact it was something like 3 million Vietnamese casualties to our 58,000 Americans.

Republicans are blaming Biden, of course. We need to point out that Trump came to power promising to end the war in Afghanistan, and as late as February 2020 sent officials to negotiate with the Taliban. He promised the US would leave Afghanistan by May 1, 2020. The military talked him out of doing that so fully and decisively, but he had made a commitment to it. And in the campaign in the fall 2020, he claimed that Biden was going to continue the war, and he was going to end it.

According to one poll, in July, 2021, 73 percent of Americans wanted out of Afghanistan. That was similar in the 1970s in Vietnam. Republicans and Democrats were disillusioned with the war. Years later Reagan attacked the Democrats for having failed to succeed there.

More at https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/08/afghanistan-kabul-taliban-
fall-of-saigon-vietnam-comparison.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 8:06 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Republicans are blaming Biden, of course. We need to point out that Trump came to power promising to end the war in Afghanistan, and as late as February 2020 sent officials to negotiate with the Taliban. He promised the US would leave Afghanistan by May 1, 2020. The military talked him out of doing that so fully and decisively, but he had made a commitment to it. And in the campaign in the fall 2020, he claimed that Biden was going to continue the war, and he was going to end it.

Democrats and the Legacy Media are attacking Biden* right now too.

Pulling out will be the one good thing that happened in Biden's* Presidency*.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

SIGNYM

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 8:33 PM (P)

I think that the whole problem with Afghanistan is that the USA backed the wrong horse. TWICE.

In TPTB's anxiety to get rid of the Soviet-friendly government, we funded the "mujahideen".

That was back in the 70s, long before many of you were aware of politics. Under the Soviet-friendly government of Afghanistan, roads were built and women were educated and became doctors and engineers and lawyers.

That's why the reversal was so brutal, and so many women took their lives: They went from being free and full citizens in a developing country to being locked inside with a husband who thought of them and their girl-children as nothing more than donkeys to be beaten to get more work out of them. If the USA had been paying attention to actual LIVING STANDARDS instead of geopolitical games, it would have joined in developing Afghanistan instead of backing a bunch of ultra-fundamentalist nutbags and power-hungry warlords.

If the USA wants to make right its mucking around in Afghanistan (TWICE), it will focus on economic development there. NO, not the "engulf and devour" transnational "development" but actual open-handed development. But...

... That's not the kind of development the USA knows how to do. The only "development" that the USA seems to be able to accomplish is either through

a) loans, which the debtor nation can never repay
b) pass-thru money, in which aid goes to a foreign nation, only to come back to a USA corporation (likeFluor) in the form of contracts or
c) payoffs to corrupt leaders

Anyway, we don't have influence any more. After backing warlords and ultra-fundamentalists (with scenes from Kabul to match today's clusterf when THAT government fell. Then we got to watch the Taliban destroy historic statues of Buddha bc of their grotch against graven images. Remember? https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/03/04/taliban-mos
t-statues-destroyed/35f98477-e07a-4948-a3e5-e7f3cb66ffec/) we tried to reverse course and destroy the Taliban and install a Potemkin government in Kabul.

You can't make this shit up.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 9:04 PM (P)

Good luck with your "inclusive" desires for the Taliban...

I'm sure that while they go back to chaining their women to the radiators and throwing homosexuals off of buildings they're also going to be lining up to get their vaccinations.

Are you people mental?

You cleared out all the secular leadership like Saddam Hussein in the area and you've got a bunch of religious barely-human's running that shit show now.

They are the textbook definition of not giving a shit about your feels.

Hope all those sleeper cells that Merkel and the rest of the corrupt EU leadership welcomed in droves don't all wake up at the same time.

Good luck, idiots.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

SECOND

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 9:28 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I think that the whole problem with Afghanistan is that the USA backed the wrong horse. TWICE.

Did you ever hear of Charlie Wilson or Joanne Herring? Between these two Texans, they decided to overthrow Afghanistan. Because of the foolishness of most everyone else in Congress, those two got their way.

Why are so many in Congress easily persuaded to back foolishness? If you have met the people who are elected, you would know the reason. They are NOT wise people who can think ahead about bigger problems beyond getting elected. Some can't even think about anything but themselves. That's why they are successful politicians and that is why Democracies malfunction all over the world, because of the kind of politicians who the voters are magnetically attracted toward are not the kind of politicians who have good sense.

The Real-Life Story Behind 'Charlie Wilson's War'
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17580376
Mr. MARTIN FROST (Former Democratic Representative, Texas): If anything - I mean, the story is true. And what I mentioned in my column was that they toned down the Charlie Wilson character. I thought Tom Hanks was kind of restrained in the way he played him. Charlie was really very flamboyant - very smart and very flamboyant. And I think if they had portrayed him as flamboyant as he really was, no one would have believed any of this.

Even without that, I think it's probably hard for some people who saw the movie to say that this really happened. Well, the answer is it did really happen. Charlie Wilson actually did this.

Charlie Wilson's War: The Extraordinary Story of How the Wildest Man in Congress and a Rogue CIA Agent Changed the History of Our Times
https://www.amazon.com/Charlie-Wilsons-War-Extraordinary-Congress/dp/0
802143415
It's common knowledge that the U.S. armed the Afghans in their fight against the Soviet Union, but until now, the fact that this was possibly the biggest, meanest covert operation in history has been absent from press reports. In one of the most detailed descriptions of a CIA operation every written, the bizarre twists and turns of the full story are told in CHARLIE WILSON'S WAR. Veteran 60 Minutes producer George Crile explains how one Congressman was able to provide the CIA with hundreds of millions of dollars to fund the Afghan program, dwarfing the price tag for arming the Nicaraguan Contras that occurred at virtually the same time.

"The scope and nature of this campaign has still not registered in the consciousness of most Americans," Crile writes in the book's Epilogue. "Nor is it understood that such secret undertakings inevitably have unforeseen and unintended consequences which, in this case, remain largely ignored."

Download the book for free from the mirrors at https://libgen.unblockit.ch/search.php?req=Charlie+Wilson's+War

At 9:55PM -- Want to know who is downloading Charlie Wilson's War, the movie, from my computer? Two from China: 106.41.62.9 and 101.86.54.151
This movie will give insight on how the worst decisions are made by Congress.
https://yts.mx/movies/charlie-wilsons-war-2007

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

SIGNYM

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 11:13 PM (P)

Indeed.

Well, whatever happens in Afghanistan now depends on how much the Chinese and Russians want to get involved with internal Afghan affairs, which will be - not much, I'm afraid.

If we had been focusing on AMERICAN interests (as in: How does this benefit the average American, if at all) we would never have made such a mess of things.

But we broke it. And they won't fix it for us, so now it's all fucked up.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

SIGNYM

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 11:27 PM (P)

Quote:
"Panic" As Afghani Crashes After Central Bank Chief Flees, Says No More Dollars Left
Tuesday, Aug 17, 2021 - 10:20 AM

For all the focus on the humanitarian crisis unfolding at an unprecedented pace in Afghanistan, many are forgetting that an even worse economic disaster awaits the "Islamic Emirate" of Afghanistan now that the Taliban are in charge.

One person who saw it coming - in addition to the president of course who promptly fled as soon as the first Taliban batallion entered Kabul - was the now former head of the country's central bank, Ajmal Ahmady - a Harvard MBA - who on Monday tweeted that he had departed Afghanistan (having seen a military jet at the airport before the Taliban took over and "somehow, my close colleagues pushed me on board") although he didn’t say where to. Ahmady said he tried to calm banks and traders (he failed) and in typical fashion slammed the former president, saying Ghani “had great ideas but poor execution,” adding “If I contributed to that, I take my share of the blame.” Said "blame taking" will take place somewhere far away, however.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/panic-afghani-crashes-after-central-
bank-chief-flees-says-no-more-dollars-left

Quote:
US Treasury Freezes Billions In Afghan Reserves, Depriving Taliban Of Cash
Tuesday, Aug 17, 2021 - 12:35 PM

After handing the Taliban US-supplied military hardware on a silver platter thanks to the botched Afghanistan withdrawal, the Biden administration scrambled to deprive the terrorist organization of funding - freezing Afghan government reserves held in US bank accounts, and blocking the Taliban from accessing billions of dollars held in US institutions, according to the Washington Post, citing two people familiar with the matter.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-treasury-freezes-billions-af
ghan-reserves-depriving-taliban-cash

Well, if this is meant to destablize the Taliban govt and cost China more money, they've succeeded at that. And if this is also meant to give China more leverage with the Taliban government (by being the only source of foreign currency) and give China's yuan a boost in terms of international circulation, and push the Taliban even deeper into China's embrace ... well, they've succeeded at that. too!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, August 17, 2021 11:34 PM (P)

I wouldn't worry about the Taliban and China teaming up.

One suicide bombing will end that relationship very quick.

The Taliban is what Antifa would be if they were feral and took 2000 year old fantasy books as the literal truth of the universe.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

SECOND

Wednesday, August 18, 2021 2:57 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Indeed.

Well, whatever happens in Afghanistan now depends on how much the Chinese and Russians want to get involved with internal Afghan affairs, which will be - not much, I'm afraid.

If we had been focusing on AMERICAN interests (as in: How does this benefit the average American, if at all) we would never have made such a mess of things.

But we broke it. And they won't fix it for us, so now it's all fucked up.

You don't believe that the US Army went into Afghanistan for one purpose, as I do, for a revenge killing of Osama bin Laden. The way bin Laden died, without even interrogating him, the most valuable asset in the history of fighting terrorism, makes me absolutely sure that it was just a straight forward assassination. There was never a clear and forceful command to capture bin Laden alive.

Navy Seal credited with killing Bin Laden reacts to Afghanistan chaos: “We should go in, hit them hard, then break stuff, point them in the face, say, ‘Don’t do it again, then leave,” he told Inside Edition. “It’s not complex. When the bad guy shows up, you kill them and when they have had enough, you stop. And if they start again, you kill them and then you stop. We make it a lot more complex than it needs to.”
https://www.wwlp.com/news/navy-seal-credited-with-killing-bin-laden-re
acts-to-afghanistan-chaos-inside-edition-exclusive/

That's the only guy who clearly said what he was doing and why.

All the rest of the things the US Army was doing in Afghanistan was pretend work/make believe work, work that the Army is incompetent to do, all as a justification for staying until bin Laden is killed in Afghanistan. But he wasn't in Afghanistan, or Iraq, so both wars were complete wastes.

An article I agree with:
The 1 Thing That Could’ve Changed the War in Afghanistan
Had Osama bin Laden been killed or captured in December 2001, justice would have been served in the way Americans like: fast, hard, and cheap.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210817142149if_/https://www.theatlantic.
com/ideas/archive/2021/08/bin-laden-2001-end-war-afghanistan/619767/

Quote:
Had the United States caught and killed Osama bin Laden in December 2001, the U.S. military presence in Afghanistan would have faded away almost immediately afterward. I cannot prove that. It’s only an opinion from my vantage point as one of President George W. Bush’s speechwriters in 2001 and 2002.

Yet I strongly believe it. The U.S. stayed for 20 years in Afghanistan because first Bush and then his successors got trapped in a pattern of responding to past failures by redoubling future efforts. In the fall of 2001, the U.S. mission in Afghanistan was clear, limited, and achievable: find and kill bin Laden. After bin Laden escaped, that mission escalated into something hazy and impossibly difficult: to rebuild Afghanistan’s society and remodel the Afghan state.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, August 18, 2021 3:39 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
You don't believe that the US Army went into Afghanistan for one purpose, as I do, for a revenge killing of Osama bin Laden.

Osama bin Laden was a Photoshop job of Scottie Pippen.

He was never killed during the Obama administration because he never existed in the first place.

After 9/11, we should have just turned Mecca to glass and the entire world would be a much better place right now.

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Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

SECOND

Wednesday, August 18, 2021 3:52 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

After 9/11, we should have just turned Mecca to glass and the entire world would be a much better place right now.

The US nuked Japan. Republican Senators said Russia should be nuked next. Killing 214,000 Japanese women and children made killing Stalin a believable threat, causing a multi-trillion dollar nuclear arms race which dimwitted President Harry Truman couldn't imagine when he allowed the nukes to drop. Nuking Mecca would be an even stupider move, and eventually more expensive, than nuking Japan.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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