Another Putin Disaster
POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 26, 2026 22:07
VIEWED: 115664
PAGE 11 of 16
Well, the day has ended, even in MY time zone, and still, no Russian invasion!
This is as bad as THUGR'S endlessly ticking clock that never reaches its destination.
Notice how quickly SECOND changes the topic the moment his shit fails to stick?
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:If I haven't made it clear, let me try again. I don't know if Putin will invade Ukraine. On the other hand, I know perfectly well that Putin won't stop lying about Ukraine. Do you see the difference, Signym?
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, the day has ended, even in MY time zone, and still, no Russian invasion!
This is as bad as THUGR'S endlessly ticking clock that never reaches its destination.
Notice how quickly SECOND changes the topic the moment his shit fails to stick?
Putin will continue to spread his nonsense everywhere he goes:
1) A False Claim From Putin About the Ukraine War
Vladimir Putin: “Opportunities to peacefully restore the territorial integrity of [Ukraine] through direct dialogue with Donetsk and Luhansk are still ignored.” February 15, 2022
Putin’s claim that dialogue has been “ignored” is false. These distortions are aimed at convincing Russian domestic audiences, and less well-informed people in other countries, that Ukraine is to blame for the current impasse.
Putin's claim simply does not comport with reality.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov compared Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba to Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi Germany’s propaganda minister during WWII.
More at https://www.polygraph.info/a/fact-check-putin-false-ukraine/31707120.h
tml
2) Russian Today (RT) Chief Spouts Ukraine Extermination Camp Lie
Simonyan claimed that Ukraine has been waging a war against its own people for eight years, killing thousands of civilians. Thousands of children who had “their arms and legs torn off” were “buried in small coffins,” she said.
She used inflammatory language to argue for a humanitarian intervention:
“Russia cannot but stop this war. What are we waiting for? For when camps are organized there? For when they are gassing their own people?”
https://www.polygraph.info/a/fact-check-margarita-simonyan-concentrati
on-camps/31705120.html
Margarita Simonyan about the situation in Ukraine in the program 'Sunday Evening with Vladimir Solovyov'
3) Will Putin stop lying? No. Will Putin invade Ukraine? How can anyone know?
Putin is such huge liar, it is impossible to know until an invasion happens.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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One thing I know for sure: the media and most politicians will continue to lie .. about Russia, Trump, China, the virus, and pretty much everything else they talk about.
And you just keep reposting their lies.
AFA Putin's statements about Ukraine, he and the rest of the political and diplomatic establishment have said the same thing over and over. How you you fail to notice? That is:
The answer to the Ukraine problem is the Minsk Agreement, signed by Ukraine, France, and Germany, and Russia (as a guarantor) and approved by the UN, in which ALL of the steps to an internal settlement are spelled out, step by step.
There is no renegotiating it, but apparently Ukraine is unwilling to implement the agreement and talk directly to the DPR/LPR. The "talk" that needs to happen is all internal to Ukraine.
AFA what Simoyan supposedly said: YOU even lied about it! Did you think no one would read the article?
She didn't say what you posted, and I doubt she even said what was written. It was a long interview, the article takes a few snippets out of it, and probably lied about what she said, just like your other article lied about what Putin said.
Nobody should believe a word what the M$M writes, especially when there are better sources of info out there
Meanwhile, Biden* has gone back to saying "Any day now!" only this time he's not even quoting "intelligence sources" this is all about what he "senses".
Yeah, good luck with that Joe*. I'm sure your Albanian mercs are working hard on dreaming up another false flag/provocation.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
One thing I know for sure: the media and most politicians will continue to lie .. about Russia, Trump, China, the virus, and pretty much everything else they talk about.
And you just keep reposting their lies.
Signym has always aligned herself with the dictators and thugs of the world. She defends their assault on those who are enlightened, while preaching to the civilized how they are the devils' disciples. She exists in a realm empty of truth. This way she doesn’t have to recognize what a piece of shit she is.
I know she is going to read this. So, my challenge to her is to look into a mirror, any mirror, remember herself as a child doing the same, then see the total tragedy that child grew to be.
This is the truth of you comrade.
T
‘Shoot Your Own And Say The Other Side Sid It’: Fear Grows Russia May Fabricate Need For War
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Secy. Blinken Warns Russia Could Use 'Manufactured Provocation' To Invade Ukraine
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Evidence Russia Moving Toward 'Imminent Invasion'
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Quote:This is no lie: MH17 was shot down.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
One thing I know for sure: the media and most politicians will continue to lie .. about Russia, Trump, China, the virus, and pretty much everything else they talk about.
And you just keep reposting their lies.
This is no lie: In another case before a court in The Hague, the Netherlands is prosecuting four men - three Russians and one Ukrainian - who are accused of obtaining the Buk missile and bringing it to a field where it was later used to bring down the Boeing 777. Dutch prosecutors have asked for a life sentence for the men, who all remain at large.
This is a lie: "We cannot be held responsible for what happened outside our territory," Russia’s agent Mikhail Vinogradov told the Strasbourg-based rights court Wednesday.
https://www.courthousenews.com/european-rights-court-hears-case-agains
t-russia-over-mh17-crash/
When asked the question: “Do you think it's time for Russia to admit responsibility for downing of MH 17?” Putin says: “Russian never ducks its responsibilities, when it shoulders the responsibility. But what we have seen, what has been presented as evidence we absolutely disagree with. There is no proof whatsoever. What was presented doesn't prove anything. Where's the firm evidence that it was the rebels that fired the missile? There are many questions, but they don't answer them. They've already made up their minds whose guilty once and for all. We cannot accept such an investigation.” Video at
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-48712512
That’s back in 20 June 2019, but nothing has changed as far Putin is concerned. MH17 still has nothing to do with Russia and never will so long as Putin is President.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Does+Putin+take+responsibility+for+mh1
7
Putin smoothly lied about MH17 and he can lie smoothly about everything. But he did say one truth: "They've already made up their minds whose guilty once and for all." There is no wondering why poor little Putin is being so treated as guilty and a liar.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Nice post SECOND...
T
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Meanwhile, where are Saddam's WMD?
Whatever happened to Trump's "collusion with Russia" hoax that's the press brayed about for four whole years? (And for which DNC party apparatchiks have now been criminally indicted?)
Where is that "imminent" invasion that the WH and the press have been trumpeting for months? Any day now? Tick tock?
Where are all of those trials and convictions that THUGR keeps predicting... on and on and on... ?
The issue isn't whether Putin lies. Putin is NOT our President!
The issue is whether OUR pols and media lies, because THEY determine what happens to US. Who gives a fuck what Putin says? When he refers to documents, treaties, negotiations, historical events like wars... well, these are things that are written down and witnessed by many. They can be verified independently.
BTW, I would label Putin's response to MH17 a "non-denial". If you're not used to reading pol-speak carefully... and you obviously aren't since you swallow BS whole... you won't notice there's no denial there. A denial would be in the form "We are not responsible in any way" (full stop)
I think it was an accidental shoot down by eastern Ukrainian rebels with perhaps non-official Russian participation. Not bc the evidence is so strong but partly bc Russia has never actually denied responsibility, nor have they come up with evidence showing who was responsible, if it wasn't them. You may not know this, but Putin was not a field KGB officer, he was a back-office lawyer, and his response is very lawyerly and carefully worded. (Unlike our pols who just make up shit whole cloth.) Sometimes absence is as indicative as presence.
I also think SARS-Cov2 escaped from a Chinese lab doing gain-of-function research contracted by American companies, and have thought that for a long time
Unless somebody comes up with solid evidence to the contrary.
Unlike you, I just go where the best evidence leads and reach my own conclusions. I don't take anyone's word on anything, and I don't have my conclusions made for me by the press, the WH, the deep state, the alt media, Putin, Xi, or anyone else. And especially not you two.
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Pity would be no more,
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Putin’s Digital War With Ukraine
For years, the Russians have used Ukraine as a proving ground for a new type of digital warfare.
The Russians have for nearly a decade used Ukraine as a proving ground for a new and highly advanced type of hybrid warfare — a digital-meets-traditional kind of fighting defined by a reliance on software, digital hardware and cognitive control that is highly effective, difficult to counter and can reach far beyond the front lines deep into Ukrainian society. It is a type of high-tech conflict that many military experts predict will define the future of war. It has also turned Ukraine, especially its eastern provinces, but also the capital, into a bewildering zone of instability, disinformation and anxiety.
The 24th Brigade first learned about the danger of carrying cell phones on the front lines years ago. On July 11, 2014, in the town of Zelenopillya, roughly five miles from the Ukrainian border with Russia, the brigade had planned to sever the supply line of the Donbas separatists when electronic warfare caught them by surprise. Witnesses described the scene to me: First there came the humming of an unmanned aerial vehicle able to clone cellular networks to locate active cellphones, followed by cyberattacks against Ukrainian command and control systems. Their communication systems disabled, Ukrainian forces were unable to coordinate with one another. Then, short-range rocket systems from inside Russia disabled two battalions, including T-64 tanks and amphibious tracked vehicles. Three trucks carrying troops exploded. Stumbling from the transport, one soldier clutched his entrails, and shouted for his mother. The attack killed 30 Ukrainians and wounded hundreds and lasted roughly two minutes.
Andri Rymaruk, 41, who served for 18 months in 2015 and 2016 as a private in the Ukrainian Armed Forces, had a few days earlier told me about how, during his active duty, he had received text messages from the Russian-backed separatists across no-man’s land.
“Soldier go home.”
“Soldier kill your commanding officer.”
“Surrender, we will defeat you anyway, this is our land and you are Ukrainian fascists.”
That was the last message Rymaruk received in spring 2016 while standing on the outskirts of Horlivka, a coal-mining, coke-producing city in Donetsk along the front line. By then Rymaruk was anticipating the end of his service. A few days after he received the message an endless fusillade tore through the unit. It was the first time Rymaruk saw his fellow soldiers killed. “I went around collecting their body parts in a blanket, tying them up and putting them in the car trunk and taking them to the morgue,” he recalled in an interview. “The medics couldn’t get there.”
Russian-supported forces could deploy such personalized propaganda and location tracking thanks to its use of UAVs but also its control of cellphone towers and the cellular companies that provide coverage to much of Ukraine. While Ukrainian officials and soldiers said they have tightened the security of their internal communications since 2014, like with the incorporation of L3Harris secure handheld radios sent by NATO and the U.S., vulnerabilities remain.
Meanwhile, the Russian military has relocated more electronic warfare equipment to the borders with Ukraine, such as the Leer-3 RB-341V, a drone-based system that can monitor cellular and data transmission networks, suppress wireless communications, locate electromagnetic emission sources and even send text messages to front-line soldiers.
More at https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/15/10-days-inside-putin
s-invisible-war-with-ukraine-00008529
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:Huh. This doesn't sound like a "Putin disaster" to me. Does it sound like one to you? Or are you just promoting the Russian EW prowess, you Russian Troll, you!
Originally posted by second:
Putin’s Digital War With Ukraine
For years, the Russians have used Ukraine as a proving ground for a new type of digital warfare.
The Russians have for nearly a decade used Ukraine as a proving ground for a new and highly advanced type of hybrid warfare — a digital-meets-traditional kind of fighting defined by a reliance on software, digital hardware and cognitive control that is highly effective, difficult to counter and can reach far beyond the front lines deep into Ukrainian society. It is a type of high-tech conflict that many military experts predict will define the future of war. It has also turned Ukraine, especially its eastern provinces, but also the capital, into a bewildering zone of instability, disinformation and anxiety.
The 24th Brigade first learned about the danger of carrying cell phones on the front lines years ago. On July 11, 2014, in the town of Zelenopillya, roughly five miles from the Ukrainian border with Russia, the brigade had planned to sever the supply line of the Donbas separatists when electronic warfare caught them by surprise. Witnesses described the scene to me: First there came the humming of an unmanned aerial vehicle able to clone cellular networks to locate active cellphones, followed by cyberattacks against Ukrainian command and control systems. Their communication systems disabled, Ukrainian forces were unable to coordinate with one another. Then, short-range rocket systems from inside Russia disabled two battalions, including T-64 tanks and amphibious tracked vehicles. Three trucks carrying troops exploded. Stumbling from the transport, one soldier clutched his entrails, and shouted for his mother. The attack killed 30 Ukrainians and wounded hundreds and lasted roughly two minutes.
Andri Rymaruk, 41, who served for 18 months in 2015 and 2016 as a private in the Ukrainian Armed Forces, had a few days earlier told me about how, during his active duty, he had received text messages from the Russian-backed separatists across no-man’s land.
“Soldier go home.”
“Soldier kill your commanding officer.”
“Surrender, we will defeat you anyway, this is our land and you are Ukrainian fascists.”
That was the last message Rymaruk received in spring 2016 while standing on the outskirts of Horlivka, a coal-mining, coke-producing city in Donetsk along the front line. By then Rymaruk was anticipating the end of his service. A few days after he received the message an endless fusillade tore through the unit. It was the first time Rymaruk saw his fellow soldiers killed. “I went around collecting their body parts in a blanket, tying them up and putting them in the car trunk and taking them to the morgue,” he recalled in an interview. “The medics couldn’t get there.”
Russian-supported forces could deploy such personalized propaganda and location tracking thanks to its use of UAVs but also its control of cellphone towers and the cellular companies that provide coverage to much of Ukraine. While Ukrainian officials and soldiers said they have tightened the security of their internal communications since 2014, like with the incorporation of L3Harris secure handheld radios sent by NATO and the U.S., vulnerabilities remain.
Meanwhile, the Russian military has relocated more electronic warfare equipment to the borders with Ukraine, such as the Leer-3 RB-341V, a drone-based system that can monitor cellular and data transmission networks, suppress wireless communications, locate electromagnetic emission sources and even send text messages to front-line soldiers.
More at https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/15/10-days-inside-putin
s-invisible-war-with-ukraine-00008529
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poo
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Why do you two want war so badly?
Are you bored?
May I suggest a Disney+ subscription if that's the case.
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1) The Russian "Firehose of Falsehood" Propaganda Model
We characterize the contemporary Russian model for propaganda as “the firehose of falsehood” because of two of its distinctive features: high numbers of channels and messages and a shameless willingness to disseminate partial truths or outright fictions. In the words of one observer, “New Russian propaganda entertains, confuses and overwhelms the audience.”2
Contemporary Russian propaganda has at least two other distinctive features. It is also rapid, continuous, and repetitive, and it lacks commitment to consistency.
Interestingly, several of these features run directly counter to the conventional wisdom on effective influence and communication from government or defense sources, which traditionally emphasize the importance of truth, credibility, and the avoidance of contradiction.3 Despite ignoring these traditional principles, Russia seems to have enjoyed some success under its contemporary propaganda model, either through more direct persuasion and influence or by engaging in obfuscation, confusion, and the disruption or diminution of truthful reporting and messaging.
More at https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html
2) Trump's Firehose of Falsehood
His refusal to concede is more than sour grapes. It's an information-warfare tactic to leave the public bewildered and cynical.
With the presidential election over and Joe Biden’s victory beyond rational dispute, the game plan of Donald Trump and his allies has come into focus. For their last act, they are executing a Russia-style disinformation campaign.
To be sure, there are other interpretations of the blizzard of spurious lawsuits, baseless allegations, conspiracy theories, and outright lies that the Trump team has unleashed across the courts, conservative media and social media. But none of those interpretations fits the facts.
Do the Republicans really think the election was an intricately coordinated fraud perpetrated in multiple states? There is no evidence that this happened, or even could have.
Do they seriously expect the courts to overturn the result? Legal experts say the chances are infinitesimal. A few narrow claims of miscounts or procedural glitches might stand, but all the charges of fraud on a scale large enough to change the result have been fabrications.
Unfortunately, a more sinister interpretation better fits the facts. What Trump and his supporters are up to should be thought of not as a litigation campaign that is likely to fail, but as an information-warfare campaign that is likely to succeed—and, indeed, is succeeding already. More specifically, they are employing a tactic called “the firehose of falsehood.” This information-warfare technique, according to researchers at the RAND Corporation, is marked by “high numbers of channels and messages and a shameless willingness to disseminate partial truths or outright fictions.”
More at https://www.persuasion.community/p/trumps-firehose-of-falsehood?utm_so
urce=url
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, the day has ended, even in MY time zone, and still, no Russian invasion!
This is as bad as THUGR'S endlessly ticking clock that never reaches its destination.
Notice how quickly SECOND changes the topic the moment his shit fails to stick?
Signym says another day has ended and still no war. More Russian propagandist lies. Russia and the separatists have been waging a war against Ukraine for eight years now. And just recently has increased shelling the Ukrainian army while increasing its cyber war against Ukraines’ infrastructure.
Right or wrong is determined by social customs, historical context and the circumstances in which actions occur. What is happening in Ukraine because of Russian aggressions is plain and simple to understand. There is no acceptable debate that would allow that Russia has the right to steal land from and dictate what another sovereign state can or cannot do. Especially since Ukraine has never been the aggressor or given Russia any provocation to attack them.
T
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Warning siren sounds in rebel-held capital in east Ukraine -Reuters witness
DONETSK, Ukraine (Reuters) - A loud warning siren sounded in the centre of the east Ukrainian city of Donetsk on Friday after a Russian-backed separatist leader in the breakaway region announced an evacuation of residents, a Reuters witness said.
Separately, the head of the self-declared Luhansk People's Republic, east Ukraine's second separatist-held region, also announced an evacuation of residents.
People will start being bussed out from the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic on Friday at 8 p.m. local time (1700 GMT), Interfax news agency cited a source as saying.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/warning-siren-sounds-in-rebel-hel
d-capital-in-east-ukraine-reuters-witness/ar-AAU29BV?ocid=msedgntp
Putin keeps committing war crimes and the sooner its publicly stated by the worlds leaders the better.
T
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Ukraine @Ukraine
“The truth is that humor has an enormous power”.
https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1486296653111996418
Ukraine @Ukraine
Invade us if you are gay
4:20 AM • Feb 17, 2022
BREAKING NEWS
Russia retreats to Siberia
Russia pulls all forces out of Crimea.
“WE ARE DEFINITELY NOT GAY” - Putin
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Ukraine @Ukraine
“The truth is that humor has an enormous power”.
https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1486296653111996418
Ukraine @Ukraine
Invade us if you are gay
4:20 AM • Feb 17, 2022
BREAKING NEWS
Russia retreats to Siberia
Russia pulls all forces out of Crimea.
“WE ARE DEFINITELY NOT GAY” - Putin
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
Yeah ok thats funny.
T
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In the meantime...
T
Deputy AG warns a Russian cyber attack on Ukraine could spill over
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Apparently Kiev forces began shelling the breakaway republics yesterday. Somebody in Ukraine has a death wish!
DOR/LPR are beginning to evacuate women and children.
This is not a Putin disaster. This is a Ukraine and EU (German, particularly) disaster.
Oh my!
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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They're trying to ramp up a war to deflect from the discontent with the Leftist ran status-quo.
It's not going to work.
Joe Biden* and the rest of them are not going to get re-elected if they start a war this time. This ain't the 90's or the early 2000's.
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Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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This is the most detail I could fnd
Quote:
The civilians of the LDNR are being evacuated from the towns near the LOC (line of contact).
The Ukies are bombing the LDNR with artillery and mortar fire along the full LOC.
The city of Gorlovka has lost power. The city is under tank fire. The only road between Donetsk and Gorlovka is under Ukronazi fire.
The cities of Dokuchaevsk, Staromikhailovka and Belaia Kamenka are under mortar attack.
It appears that the Ukronazis want to cut through the defenses between Lugansk and Donetsk.
https://thesaker.is/the-ukronazis-are-on-the-offensive-open-thread/
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:Not only will USA politics be upended, so will EU politics if the gas is shut off.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
They're trying to ramp up a war to deflect from the discontent with the Leftist ran status-quo.
It's not going to work.
Joe Biden* and the rest of them are not going to get re-elected if they start a war this time. This ain't the 90's or the early 2000's.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
Given thata war and subsequent sanctions will be a disaster for Ukraine and the EU (JOE* apparently has no problem throwing "allies and partners under the bus).. who is self-destructive enough to set this off?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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On could only speculate.
Anybody we know by name isn't behind it. They're just puppets.
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Russia will set this off in the simplest way:
Russia ramps up 'genocide' accusations
The Russian parliament speaker and ambassador to Washington have both accused
the Ukrainian government of "genocide" following reports of conflict in the
eastern part of the country, where Moscow-backed separatists
ordered an evacuation of civilians on Friday.
Such claims have been vehemently denied by Ukraine and
come amid accusations by Washington and its allies
that Russia could be seeking a pretext to invade Ukraine.
Moscow denies this.
Vyacheslav Volodin, the chairman of the lower house, wrote
on Telegram that Moscow should intervene to stop "genocide"
and "crimes against humanity" allegedly perpetrated by Ukraine.
"Peaceful people are suffering, dying. We cannot stand idly by.
We are concerned with defending Russian citizens and compatriots
who live there," he said.
"Kyiv's crimes are being hushed up by Washington and Brussels," he wrote.
Similar accusations were earlier voiced by the Russian ambassador
to Washington, Anatoly Antonov.
"How else can one assess the shelling by Ukrainian forces of residential areas
using multiple-rocket launch systems? Or the mass burials
of almost 300 peaceful civilians that have been found outside Luhansk,
who died only because they saw Russian as their native language?"
he wrote on Facebook.
Antonov was referring to the recent allegations by Russian investigators
that "mass graves" had been discovered in Eastern Ukraine.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60428211?ns_mchannel=social
&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=620fe817571bfc64f8e64885%26Russia%20ramps%20up%20%27genocide%27%20accusations%262022-02-18T18%3A48%3A06.997Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:5edabecd-56c1-4574-8c8d-ee93a0b60bba&pinned_post_asset_id=620fe817571bfc64f8e64885&pinned_post_type=share
Russia must attack now, Now, NOW! before more Russians are killed by Ukraine.
It is that simple.
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In 2008 Russia announced a military withdrawal from its border with Georgia.
8 days later, it invaded
Russia on Tuesday claimed it was withdrawing some troops from Ukraine’s border as it denies plans to attack the country, but the US and NATO said Russia appeared to be increasing its military presence there.
They may worry that the situation could mirror Russia’s actions in 2008, when it said it was withdrawing troops and invaded eight days later.
At the time, Russia said it sent soldiers to the Abkhazia region to fix a railroad, and then said they were withdrawing. Russia’s Lt. Gen. Sergei Klimets said on July 30, 2008: “It’s certain that all the personnel and all the equipment will be sent away from here.”
On August 7, 2008, Russia sent troops into the South Ossetia region, and troops and tanks then advanced further into the country. Tbilisi’s international airport was among the sites damaged.
Russia stopped its assault on August 12. Russia denied invading Georgia, saying that it only started sending in troops in response to Georgian military action. Georgia said it was responding to Russia's military action.
https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-announced-withdrawal-georgia-8-
days-before-2008-invasion-2022-2
The Georgia 8 days rule would mean Russia invades Ukraine on Wednesday of next week and then claims Ukraine attacked first.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Kiev shelling civilians just to start war.
Huh.
Who is the evil one, again?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Who is the evil one, again?
Second. Second is the evil one.
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Quote:To hear Russian media tell it, the government of Ukraine is run by neo-Nazis waging a genocidal campaign against ethnic Russians in the country’s east, where Moscow-backed authorities regularly uncover mass graves full of the corpses of women and children with bound hands and bludgeoned heads even as they face the hell of constant shelling.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Kiev shelling civilians just to start war.
Huh.
Who is the evil one, again?
Such false images and narratives have become a daily staple in Russia....The Russian media have gone into overdrive with stories depicting a government in Kyiv so cruel that Moscow has no choice but to swoop in and protect the ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region.
“It’s a war between the Ukrainian government and its own people. ... People are dying there every day. Thousands of civilians died there. Thousands of children lost their limbs there, buried in little coffins,” Margarita Simonyan, head of the state-funded broadcaster RT, said on a talk show on the Russia-1 channel.
https://jabberwocking.com/the-view-from-moscow-is-a-grim-one/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Find me that quote about budgeoneed corpses. Bc every time you quote Simoyan, you keep returning to the same quote where she tells the absolute truth:
Thousands of CIVILIANS were killed in easterm Ukraine (3000+, which -last time I checked- qualifies as "thousands") and...
Once you've been blown apart by shell or landmine, there really IS little left to bury.
So, who's lying here? Simoyan, who's telling the truth? Or SECOND, who's trying to bury it?
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Neuer Aktenfund von 1991 stützt russischen Vorwurf
Russland behauptet seit Jahrzehnten, die Nato-Osterweiterung verstoße gegen westliche Zusagen nach dem Mauerfall. Nun ist ein bemerkenswertes Dokument aufgetaucht.
Machine translated
Quote:
New file find from 1991 supports Russian accusation Russia has been claiming for decades that NATO's eastward expansion violates Western promises after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Now a remarkable document has surfaced.
Quote:
West promised not to expand NATO – Der Spiegel
NATO deceived Russia about expansion and a British document proves it, top German weekly discovers
A newly discovered document from March 1991 shows US, UK, French, and German officials discussing a pledge made to Moscow that NATO would not expand to Poland and beyond. Its publication by the German magazine Der Spiegel on Friday comes as expansion of the US-led bloc has led to a military standoff in Eastern Europe.
The minutes of a March 6, 1991 meeting in Bonn between political directors of the foreign ministries of the US, UK, France, and Germany contain multiple references to “2+4” talks on German unification in which the Western officials made it “clear” to the Soviet Union that NATO would not push into territory east of Germany.
“We made it clear to the Soviet Union – in the 2+4 talks, as well as in other negotiations – that we do not intend to benefit from the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Eastern Europe,” the document quotes US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe and Canada Raymond Seitz.
“NATO should not expand to the east, either officially or unofficially,” Seitz added.
A British representative also mentions the existence of a “general agreement” that membership of NATO for eastern European countries is “unacceptable.”
“We had made it clear during the 2+4 negotiations that we would not extend NATO beyond the Elbe [sic],” said West German diplomat Juergen Hrobog. “We could not therefore offer Poland and others membership in NATO.”
The minutes later clarified he was referring to the Oder River, the boundary between East Germany and Poland. Hrobog further noted that West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl and Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher had agreed with this position as well.
The document was found in the UK National Archives by Joshua Shifrinson, a political science professor at Boston University in the US. It had been marked “Secret” but was declassified at some point.
Shifrinson tweeted on Friday he was “honored” to work with Der Spiegel on the document showing that “Western diplomats believed they had indeed made a NATO non-enlargement pledge.”
Honored to work with @derspiegel's Klaus Wiegrefe in drawing attention to British documents (cc: @UkNatArchives) from 1990-1991 showing senior Western diplomats believed they had indeed made a NATO non-enlargement pledge. Link below: https://t.co/hep8aCKRrM
— Josh Shifrinson (@shifrinson) February 18, 2022
“Senior policymakers deny a non-expansion pledge was offered. This new document shows otherwise,” Shifrinson said in a follow-up tweet, noting that “beyond” the Elbe or Oder by any standard includes Eastern European countries to which NATO started expanding just eight years later.
During a major press conference in December 2021, Russian President Vladimir Putin said the West had promised the Soviet Union NATO would not expand “a single inch” to the east, but “brazenly deceived” and “cheated” Moscow to do just that.
Responding to these comments, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said the alliance “has never promised not to expand.” In an interview with Der Spiegel later, Stoltenberg repeated that “there has never been such a promise, there has never been such a behind-the-scenes deal, it is simply not true.”
NATO admitted Pol
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Quote:Signym, you are taking the side of Russian media that wants Putin to free Ukraine from an evil government in Kyiv. It just so happens that Putin wants what Russian media wants. Nice to see so much agreement between Russian media and Putin. It is almost like Putin controls Russian media or the other way around. But it is funny that a so-called American, aka Signym, is taking Putin's position. It would be more convincing if you pretend indifference toward international events since none are Californian's business and you don't travel and you never fought a war. Be neutral, like the Swiss, Signym. But for some reason, you side with Putin. Every. Time.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Find me that quote about budgeoneed corpses. Bc every time you quote Simoyan, you keep returning to the same quote where she tells the absolute truth:
Thousands of CIVILIANS were killed in easterm Ukraine (3000+, which -last time I checked- qualifies as "thousands") and...
Once you've been blown apart by shell or landmine, there really IS little left to bury.
So, who's lying here? Simoyan, who's telling the truth? Or SECOND, who's trying to bury it?
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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SECOND, I'm on the side of TRUTH, wherever it happens to lead. You OTOH lie - constantly, demonstrably. And when you're shown to be lying, you resort to the oldest dodge in the book - you name-call!
Really???
How old are you? Four?
Well, YOU eat boogers!
How's THAT for a response?
It's just like yours.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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the dratted dbl
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Quote:How can Putin NOT overthrow the evil Ukraine government in Kyiv? Maybe Putin is joking but he says it is genocide. He says punishment is inevitable. He says US and Ukraine were developing biological or chemical weapons for use on Russians. How can Putin let this evil go on?
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, I'm on the side of TRUTH, wherever it happens to lead. You OTOH lie - constantly, demonstrably. And when you're shown to be lying, you resort to the oldest dodge in the book - you name-call!
Really???
How old are you? Four?
Well, YOU eat boogers!
How's THAT for a response?
It's just like yours.
Russia's Investigative Committee claimed on Wednesday that mass graves of hundreds of Russian-speaking civilians had been found in the Donbas region, as the Russian government continued to accuse Ukraine of genocide and human rights violations in Donbas.
The committee claimed that the civilians found in the area controlled by Russian-backed separatists were killed by Ukrainian shelling. "The Investigative Committee continues to take all possible measures to uphold the principle of the inevitability of punishment for those responsible for committing crimes in Donetsk and Luhansk areas," said the committee.
The announcement comes a day after Russian President Vladimir Putin stated that "in our view what is now happening in Donbas is genocide" and claimed that there were "mass violations of human rights in Ukraine" during a press conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz. Putin has made similar accusations in the past.
US State Department spokesperson Ned Price said in a regular press briefing on Wednesday night that the United States was concerned by Russian President Vladimir Putin's claim that "genocide" was taking place in eastern Ukraine's Donbas region, and said claims that the US and Ukraine were developing biological or chemical weapons for use in the region are "entirely false."
https://www.jpost.com/international/article-696703
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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It's hilarious watching the hypocrisy here.
Second is fully on board with Trudeau stomping people in Canada who aren't doing anything wrong.
And there's PLENTY of video evidence of it.
Second is cheering for tyranny in Canada.
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Quote:I do not care what happens to insane truckers. I'm not buying their tomfoolery about Trudeau being a tyrant. Meanwhile, Putin is selling tomfoolery about Ukraine committing genocide. I'm not buying that, either. Putin is as insane as Canadian bridge blocking truckers, except Putin can believably threaten to destroy bridges.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
It's hilarious watching the hypocrisy here.
Second is fully on board with Trudeau stomping people in Canada who aren't doing anything wrong.
And there's PLENTY of video evidence of it.
Second is cheering for tyranny in Canada.
Just realized that insane truckers and insane Putin may have insane definitions of "tyranny" and "genocide". Their loss of touch with reality might explain Putin's and truckers' insanity. Oh, and claiming a loss was a win is Trump's insane redefining the word "win".
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Not only will USA politics be upended, so will EU politics if the gas is shut off.
Given thata war and subsequent sanctions will be a disaster for Ukraine and the EU (JOE* apparently has no problem throwing "allies and partners under the bus).. who is self-destructive enough to set this off?
It’s sad how comrade Signym can make false claims and assertions and think her lies aren’t occurring in plain sight. Her explanations of current events are brainless and dense in pretty much all her debated topics.
Turning off the gas is how Putin attempts to blackmail the world. He’s been doing it for decades. Recent events have shown Europe their reliance on Russian fuels is a greater problem then they realized. Putin has highlighted that. What Putin achieved, is Europe accelerating their resolve to move away from Russian oil, leaving Putin with only his threat to start a nuclear war to get what he wants. Shit, he now has China doing it.
America and its allies are standing with Ukraine. Nobody is throwing anybody under a bus. Europe understands what Putins' latest escapades can lead to. He has united NATO and increases the desire of other countries to join in a way not established in a long time. He has them all increasing their defense budgets as well.
Once again, as with Trump, we have comrade Signym defending the inexcusable.
T
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:I do not care what happens to insane truckers. I'm not buying their tomfoolery about Trudeau being a tyrant. Meanwhile, Putin is selling tomfoolery about Ukraine committing genocide. I'm not buying that, either. Putin is as insane as Canadian bridge blocking truckers, except Putin can believably threaten to destroy bridges.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
It's hilarious watching the hypocrisy here.
Second is fully on board with Trudeau stomping people in Canada who aren't doing anything wrong.
And there's PLENTY of video evidence of it.
Second is cheering for tyranny in Canada.
Just realized that insane truckers and insane Putin may have insane definitions of "tyranny" and "genocide". Their loss of touch with reality might explain Putin's and truckers' insanity. Oh, and claiming a loss was a win is Trump's insane redefining the word "win".
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
Go eat a dick, brownshirt.
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Quote:
Originally posted by THG:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Not only will USA politics be upended, so will EU politics if the gas is shut off.
Given thata war and subsequent sanctions will be a disaster for Ukraine and the EU (JOE* apparently has no problem throwing "allies and partners under the bus).. who is self-destructive enough to set this off?
It’s sad how comrade Signym can make false claims and assertions and think her lies aren’t occurring in plain sight. Her explanations of current events are brainless and dense in pretty much all her debated topics.
Turning off the gas is how Putin attempts to blackmail the world. He’s been doing it for decades. Recent events have shown Europe their reliance on Russian fuels is a greater problem then they realized. Putin has highlighted that. What Putin achieved, is Europe accelerating their resolve to move away from Russian oil, leaving Putin with only his threat to start a nuclear war to get what he wants. Shit, he now has China doing it.
America and its allies are standing with Ukraine. Nobody is throwing anybody under a bus. Europe understands what Putins' latest escapades can lead to. He has united NATO and increases the desire of other countries to join in a way not established in a long time. He has them all increasing their defense budgets as well.
Once again, as with Trump, we have comrade Signym defending the inexcusable.
T
T
Ret. Gen. Allen: ‘Putin Never Imagined That This Could Backfire In The Way That It Has’
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Has anyone here seen the movie Behind the Curve [2018]? The last few minutes have genuine Flat Earthers doing a "scientific" experiment to prove the Earth is flat. It involved two boats on the water and a light beam with experimenters (who believe the Earth is flat) on both boats talking to each other over the radio.
What did they prove? That the Earth is flat.
They created fake explanations. True believers believe that light moves in a curve while the Earth is flat. True believers believe Ukraine shot down Flight MH17, not Russia and believe Biden stole the election, not Trump failed to steal and believe Trudeau is a tyrant, not that truckers are insane and believe vaccines kill while nobody dies of Covid-19. True believers create their own little version of reality.
Behind the Curve 2018 / TV-14 / 1h 36m
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8132700/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behind_the_Curve
https://www.commonsensemedia.org/movie-reviews/behind-the-curve
The Flat Earthers know they won the argument. About that there can be no argument because logic, science, facts, and commonsense are on the Flat Earth side as on Russia's side.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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THUGR: Russia has NEVER abrogated contractual gas deliveries. Believe what you will, but EU and member states are the unreliable partners, not Russia.
SECIND: If you were interested in doing anything other than lying, you would explain to everyone how I'm wrong, with facts and logic. Instead, you've switched up your name-calling- from "Ruusian Troll" to "flat earther".
Not interested in arguing with a demonstrated liar and its half-with follower.
Peace out.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Has anyone here seen the movie Behind the Curve [2018]? The last few minutes have genuine Flat Earthers doing a "scientific" experiment to prove the Earth is flat. It involved two boats on the water and a light beam with experimenters (who believe the Earth is flat) on both boats talking to each other over the radio.
What did they prove? That the Earth is flat.
They created fake explanations. True believers believe that light moves in a curve while the Earth is flat. True believers believe Ukraine shot down Flight MH17, not Russia and believe Biden stole the election, not Trump failed to steal and believe Trudeau is a tyrant, not that truckers are insane and believe vaccines kill while nobody dies of Covid-19. True believers create their own little version of reality.
Putin Has Made America Great Again
The Ukraine crisis has revealed that the U.S. can’t shed its “big brother” image on the world stage.
Donald trump was supposed to have changed the world, robbing America not just of its luster but of its allies’ trust. Here was a president of such gauche ignorance and hostility, it seemed impossible that American power would ever be seen in the same light again. For Europe, in particular, Trump’s jingoistic belligerence was poised to be an adrenaline shot to the heart, Pulp Fiction–style, jolting the continent out of its American dependency.
And yet, here we are, facing the first serious threat of invasion in Europe since the Balkan wars of the 1990s, and it’s as if nothing has changed. The story of the Ukraine crisis so far has been about many things: blackmail; realpolitik; appeasement; even, apparently, Western provocation regardless of the facts. But, here in Europe, the one thing it very much has not been about is American decline. In fact, from here, the story of this latest crisis is of the reestablishment of America the Good, America the Bold, America the Supreme—and, by extension, Europe the Weak.
And yet, here we are, facing the first serious threat of invasion in Europe since the Balkan wars of the 1990s, and it’s as if nothing has changed. The story of the Ukraine crisis so far has been about many things: blackmail; realpolitik; appeasement; even, apparently, Western provocation regardless of the facts. But, here in Europe, the one thing it very much has not been about is American decline. In fact, from here, the story of this latest crisis is of the reestablishment of America the Good, America the Bold, America the Supreme—and, by extension, Europe the Weak.
And yet, here we are, facing the first serious threat of invasion in Europe since the Balkan wars of the 1990s, and it’s as if nothing has changed. The story of the Ukraine crisis so far has been about many things: blackmail; realpolitik; appeasement; even, apparently, Western provocation regardless of the facts. But, here in Europe, the one thing it very much has not been about is American decline. In fact, from here, the story of this latest crisis is of the reestablishment of America the Good, America the Bold, America the Supreme—and, by extension, Europe the Weak.
And yet, here we are, facing the first serious threat of invasion in Europe since the Balkan wars of the 1990s, and it’s as if nothing has changed. The story of the Ukraine crisis so far has been about many things: blackmail; realpolitik; appeasement; even, apparently, Western provocation regardless of the facts. But, here in Europe, the one thing it very much has not been about is American decline. In fact, from here, the story of this latest crisis is of the reestablishment of America the Good, America the Bold, America the Supreme—and, by extension, Europe the Weak.
And yet, here we are, facing the first serious threat of invasion in Europe since the Balkan wars of the 1990s, and it’s as if nothing has changed. The story of the Ukraine crisis so far has been about many things: blackmail; realpolitik; appeasement; even, apparently, Western provocation regardless of the facts. But, here in E
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Ukraine's president urges sanctions against Russia before possible invasion, not after
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-s-president-urges-sanctio
ns-against-russia-before-possible-invasion-not-after/ar-AAU4w31?ocid=msedgntp
T
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Has anyone here seen the movie Behind the Curve [2018]? The last few minutes have genuine Flat Earthers doing a "scientific" experiment to prove the Earth is flat. It involved two boats on the water and a light beam with experimenters (who believe the Earth is flat) on both boats talking to each other over the radio.
What did they prove? That the Earth is flat.
They created fake explanations. True believers believe that light moves in a curve while the Earth is flat. True believers believe Ukraine shot down Flight MH17, not Russia and believe Biden stole the election, not Trump failed to steal and believe Trudeau is a tyrant, not that truckers are insane and believe vaccines kill while nobody dies of Covid-19. True believers create their own little version of reality.
Behind the Curve 2018 / TV-14 / 1h 36m
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8132700/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behind_the_Curve
https://www.commonsensemedia.org/movie-reviews/behind-the-curve
The Flat Earthers know they won the argument. About that there can be no argument because logic, science, facts, and commonsense are on the Flat Earth side as on Russia's side.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
A dumb analogy such as this is dumb because I could just change a few words and apply it to you.
You, specifically, are cancer.
Go eat a dick, brownshirt.
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Russian State TV Is So Ridiculous Right Now It Looks Like a Farce
Anyone who might be watching exclusively Russian state television would never know President Putin has massed his troops on the border of Ukraine, that Kremlin-controlled separatists shelled a kindergarten full of children and Russian forces are in position for an offensive against its beleaguered neighbor. On Kremlin-funded networks, the vision of events is presented not only upside down, but backwards. Panicked pundits blame the United States and Ukraine for the escalation, claim that Russia doesn’t want the war and theatrically ponder: “Why won’t somebody stop Biden?”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-state-tv-is-so-ridiculous
-right-now-it-looks-like-a-farce/ar-AAU5GTb?ocid=msedgntp
This period in history will go down as one where you had two types of people globally. Those who are emotionally mature and those who are not. Those who take information and form judgments based in reality and on facts, not on emotions, and those who do not. At firefly fans it is obvious who’s who.
T
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T
Kremlin reportedly lies about pulling back from Ukraine border
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Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Russian State TV Is So Ridiculous Right Now It Looks Like a Farce
Until you start taking a critical look at the media you choose to ingest, save it.
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U.S. has intel that Russian commanders have orders to proceed with invasion
Washington — The U.S. has intelligence that Russian commanders have received orders to proceed with an invasion of Ukraine, with commanders on the ground making specific plans for how they would maneuver in their sectors of the battlefield, CBS News national security correspondent David Martin reported on "Face the Nation" Sunday.
The intelligence indicates that "they're doing everything that American commanders would do once they got the order to proceed," Martin said.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/u-s-has-intel-that-russian-comman
ders-have-orders-to-proceed-with-invasion/ar-AAU63l9?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
Ukraine is no match for Russia. Still, I hope Russia gets its clock cleaned with heavy casualties.
T
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This economic weapon could cut Russia off from 'the 21st century economy'
In addition to the severe sanctions that Joe Biden has promised, the White House says it's ready to deploy another economic weapon if Vladimir Putin goes ahead with his planned invasion of Ukraine.
That weapon, the Export Administration Regulations (EAR), allows the Biden administration to ban foreign and domestic companies from exporting products like high-tech semiconductors to Russia.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/this-economic-weapon-could-cut
-russia-off-from-the-21st-century-economy/ar-AAU5OHx?ocid=msedgntp
T
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Ted's never met a Ukrainian in his life.
I bet he's met Canadians though.
But he doesn't' give one single shit about the Canadian government waging war on Canadian citizens.
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Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Ukraine is no match for Russia. Still, I hope Russia gets its clock cleaned with heavy casualties.
Ted loves it when people he doesn't agree with die.
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Finnish President Sauli Niinistö said Sunday he's recently seen changes in Russian President Vladimir Putin's behavior, saying that he now sounds more "decisive" than in the past.
While Niinistö emphasized his country wasn’t planning on a dramatic change in its relationship with Russia, he suggested Russia’s actions are making Finnish people rethink joining NATO.
"A lot depends, also, what actually happens in Ukraine and how Russia is going to behave after that," he said. "If Russia sees a success story for them, that makes them more dangerous."
Niinistö, who has been in close contact with Putin, recalled an exchange the two shared on the phone. During one of the regular calls, Niinistö said he pushed back against Putin by standing up for his country’s sovereignty. That is when Putin switched tones, he said, then began to “officially” read his list of demands for Finland to comply with to keep Putin happy.
For decades, Finland has kept a delicate balance in its relationship with Russia, having been invaded by the Soviet Union in 1939. The country, which borders Russia, stayed scrupulously neutral throughout the Cold War, becoming neither part of the Warsaw Pact nor of NATO.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/finland-s-president-sees-changes-
in-putin-it-was-a-different-kind-of-behavior/ar-AAU60qj?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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On Tuesday, the Duma, Russia’s parliament, passed a resolution authorizing Putin to recognize the so-called Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republic — the two provinces of Ukraine’s southeastern Donbas region, which are occupied by armed pro-Russia separatists — as independent states. He could next move thousands of troops, tanks, and other weapons into the territories, at the “request” of their leaders, to defend their people from Ukrainian assault.
In this way, Putin could keep up the military pressure on the Ukrainian government without facing the many risks of a full-scale invasion. He could also further obstruct Ukraine’s already-forlorn prospects for membership in NATO — Putin’s main goal — since, in order to join the U.S.-led military alliance, a state must have stable borders, among other qualities.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/02/putin-backup-plan-in-ukrai
ne.html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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NATO is cancer.
Russia is the lesser of two evils.
Hell...
Any country in the Middle East during their worst period narratively is the lesser of two evils in comparison.
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Worry about this.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/feb/19/dhs-has-now-released-
all-76000-afghan-evacuees-mil/
Nobody in America gives a single shit about Russia or the Ukraine.
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Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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Quote:All this money is being spent because Russia has H-bombs: The estimate of $634 billion in total costs for nuclear forces over the 2021–2030 period is $140 billion more than CBO’s January 2019 estimate of $494 billion over the 2019–2028 period (see Table 2).
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Worry about this.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/feb/19/dhs-has-now-released-
all-76000-afghan-evacuees-mil/
Nobody in America gives a single shit about Russia or the Ukraine.
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57240
That's the future, 6ix. How much did Russian H-bombs scare America in the past?
What did nuclear weapons cost the United States? From 1940 through 1996, we spent nearly $5.5 trillion on nuclear weapons and weapons-related programs, in constant 1996 dollars. If we could represent $5.8 trillion as a stack of dollar bills, it would reach from the Earth to the Moon and nearly back again, a distance of more than 459,000 miles. I'd say all that money was spent only because of Russia, not because the French or N. Korea have bombs.
https://www.brookings.edu/the-hidden-costs-of-our-nuclear-arsenal-over
view-of-project-findings/
Apparently, 6ix, you are mistaken about how much America cares about Russia.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Feb 19 (Reuters) - Finland's president on Saturday compared Russia's current treatment of Ukraine to an attempt by Soviet dictator Josef Stalin to threaten and divide Finland before invading in 1939.
"All what happens in Ukraine, all what happens in the Western world at the moment, reminds me of what happened in Finland," President Sauli Niinisto told a security conference in Munich.
"Stalin thought that he will split the nation and it's easy to go and invade Finland. Totally the opposite happened. People united, and we see the same in Ukraine."
Finland, part of the Russian empire from 1809 to 1917, resisted an initial Soviet invasion in 1939. The Nordic country later sided with Nazi Germany for much of World War Two and lost a chunk of its pre-war territory to the Soviet Union in peace treaties afterwards.
During the Cold War, Finland was neutral between the West and the Soviet Union.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finland-likens-russias-treatment-
ukraine-soviet-threats-2022-02-19/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Apparently, 6ix, you are mistaken about how much America cares about Russia.
Your mistake is claiming that the ruling class is America.
Just add your bullshit up there to the very, very long list of OUR money they waste every single day.
It's why I'll never work enough in a year to fund it anymore.
Meanwhile, your boy Joe* just released 700,000 terrorists all across America.
Just like the mud in your blood, we'll revisit this in a few years so I can give you a few of the I Told You Sos from the bag.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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Quote:You're afraid of what a vaccine might do to you. Afraid of what a Afghan might do to you. Afraid of being poor. Go buy a gun to make yourself feel brave. And don't forget to vote for the frightened guy (who hides his fear with bluster) wanting to withdraw from NATO:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Apparently, 6ix, you are mistaken about how much America cares about Russia.
Your mistake is claiming that the ruling class is America.
Just add your bullshit up there to the very, very long list of OUR money they waste every single day.
It's why I'll never work enough in a year to fund it anymore.
Meanwhile, your boy Joe* just released 700,000 terrorists all across America.
Just like the mud in your blood, we'll revisit this in a few years so I can give you a few of the I Told You Sos from the bag.
President Trump suggested a move tantamount to destroying NATO: the withdrawal of the United States. Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. There are few things that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia desires more than the weakening of NATO.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220219105015/https://www.nytimes.com/201
9/01/14/us/politics/nato-president-trump.html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Funny that the ONLY interest/input Trump had in the 2016 Republican platform (they didn’t even bother with one in 2020) was on Ukraine. To make it more Russia-friendly. Not a single thing else.
Trump campaign guts GOP’s anti-Russia stance on Ukraine by Josh Rogin, July 18, 2016
The Trump campaign worked behind the scenes last week to make sure the new Republican platform won’t call for giving weapons to Ukraine to fight Russian and rebel forces, contradicting the view of almost all Republican foreign policy leaders in Washington.
Throughout the campaign, Trump has been dismissive of calls for supporting the Ukraine government as it fights an ongoing Russian-led intervention. Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, worked as a lobbyist for the Russian-backed former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych for more than a decade.
Still, Republican delegates at last week’s national security committee platform meeting in Cleveland were surprised when the Trump campaign orchestrated a set of events to make sure that the GOP would not pledge to give Ukraine the weapons it has been asking for from the United States.
Inside the meeting, Diana Denman, a platform committee member from Texas who was a Ted Cruz supporter, proposed a platform amendment that would call for maintaining or increasing sanctions against Russia, increasing aid for Ukraine and “providing lethal defensive weapons” to the Ukrainian military.
“Today, the post-Cold War ideal of a ‘Europe whole and free’ is being severely tested by Russia’s ongoing military aggression in Ukraine,” the amendment read. “The Ukrainian people deserve our admiration and support in their struggle.”
Trump staffers in the room, who are not delegates but are there to oversee the process, intervened. By working with pro-Trump delegates, they were able to get the issue tabled while they devised a method to roll back the language.
On the sideline, Denman tried to persuade the Trump staffers not to change the language, but failed. “I was troubled when they put aside my amendment and then watered it down,” Denman told me. “I said, ‘What is your problem with a country that wants to remain free?’ It seems like a simple thing.”
Finally, Trump staffers wrote an amendment to Denman’s amendment that stripped out the platform’s call for “providing lethal defensive weapons” and replaced it with softer language calling for “appropriate assistance.”
That amendment was voted on and passed. When the Republican Party releases its platform Monday, the official Republican party position on arms for Ukraine will be at odds with almost all the party’s national security leaders.
“This is another example of Trump being out of step with GOP leadership and the mainstream in a way that shows he would be dangerous for America and the world,” said Rachel Hoff, another platform committee member who was in the room.
Of course, Trump is not the only politician to oppose sending lethal weapons to Ukraine. President Obama decided not to authorize it, despite recommendations to do so from his top Europe officials in the State Department and the military. The United States has provided Ukraine with non-lethal equipment and aid.
Trump’s view of Russia has always been friendlier than most Republicans. He’s said he would “get along very well” with Vladimir Putin and called it a “great honor” when Putin praised him. Trump has done a lot of business in Russia and has been traveling there since 1987. Last August, he said of Ukraine joining NATO, “I wouldn’t care.” He traveled there in September, and he told Ukrainians their war is “really a problem that affects Europe a lot more than it affects us.”
For Trump, the biggest threat to Europe is not Russia, according to people familiar with his thinking. He believes the United States should focus on helping Europe fight Islamist terrorism and open borders, not confronting Putin. He has called for a reduction of the U.S. commitment to NATO. He simply doesn’t see Russia as a dangerous threat.
For Denman, the Trump campaign’s actions betray
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US says it has credible information about Russian 'kill list' in potential Ukraine invasion
The US has written to the top United Nations human rights official that it has "credible information" that Russian forces are identifying Ukrainians "to be killed or sent to camps" if it further invades Ukraine and occupies it.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-says-it-has-credible-informati
on-about-russian-kill-list-in-potential-ukraine-invasion/ar-AAU81m3?ocid=msedgntp
Correct SECOND. Trump acted as though he was a Russian agent.
T
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Russian military claimed early on Monday that troops and border guards engaged in a clash with a “sabotage and reconnaissance group from the territory of Ukraine” inside Russian territory.
Russian President Vladimir Putin publicly stepped up his rhetoric in the Ukraine crisis Monday in a highly choreographed meeting, accusing Kyiv of carrying out acts of aggression and saying he was considering a request to officially recognize the breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine as independent.
Putin also accused the West of threats and blackmail during the previously unscheduled convening of the Russian security council that, in unusually theatrical setting, was shown on television.
“Russia has always tried to resolve all conflicts by peaceful means. Nevertheless, the Kyiv authorities conducted two punitive operations in these territories [Donetsk and Luhansk], and it seems that we are now witnessing an escalation for the third time,” Putin said, without further elaborating or providing specifics.
CNN has not independently verified reports of a clash inside Russia’s territory. Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba denied a clash occurred, saying on Twitter, “I categorically refute the disinformation of the Russian Federation.”
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/21/europe/russia-ukraine-tensions-monday-i
ntl/index.html
Creating an independent Ukraine was 'madness'
CNN's Nic Robertson says that Russian President Vladimir Putin, during a made-for-TV speech from the Kremlin, made his case that Ukraine was always a part of Russia, which indicates that Putin is looking to reacquire all of Ukraine.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/02/21/putin-russia-ukraine-histo
ry-robertson-sot-vpx.cnn
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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What's at stake in Ukraine is the direction of human history
Humanity's greatest political achievement has been the decline of war. That is now in jeopardy.
Yuval Noah Harari, Sat, Feb 12, 2022 - 5:50 AM
AT the heart of the Ukraine crisis lies a fundamental question about the nature of history and the nature of humanity: is change possible? Can humans change the way they behave, or does history repeat itself endlessly, with humans forever condemned to reenact past tragedies without changing anything except the decor?
One school of thought firmly denies the possibility of change. It argues that the world is a jungle, that the strong prey upon the weak and that the only thing preventing one country from wolfing down another is military force.
This is how it always was, and this is how it always will be. Those who don't believe in the law of the jungle are not just deluding themselves, but are putting their very existence at risk. They will not survive long.
Another school of thought argues that the so-called law of the jungle isn't a natural law at all. Humans made it, and humans can change it. Contrary to popular misconceptions, the first clear evidence for organised warfare appears in the archaeological record only 13,000 years ago.
Even after that date there have been many periods devoid of archaeological evidence for war. Unlike gravity, war isn't a fundamental force of nature. Its intensity and existence depend on underlying technological, economic and cultural factors. As these factors change, so does war.
Evidence of such change is all around us. Over the past few generations, nuclear weapons have turned war between superpowers into a mad act of collective suicide, forcing the most powerful nations on Earth to find less violent ways to resolve conflict.
Whereas great-power wars, such as the second Punic war or the second world war, have been a salient feature for much of history, in the last seven decades there has been no direct war between superpowers.
During the same period, the global economy has been transformed from one based on materials to one based on knowledge. Where once the main sources of wealth were material assets such as gold mines, wheat fields and oil wells, today the main source of wealth is knowledge. And whereas you can seize oil fields by force, you cannot acquire knowledge that way. The profitability of conquest has declined as a result.
Finally, a tectonic shift has taken place in global culture. Many elites in history - Hun chieftains, Viking jarls and Roman patricians, for example - viewed war positively. Rulers from Sargon the Great to Benito Mussolini sought to immortalise themselves by conquest (and artists such as Homer and Shakespeare happily obliged such fancies). Other elites, such as the Christian church, viewed war as evil but inevitable.
In the past few generations, however, for the first time in history the world became dominated by elites who see war as both evil and avoidable. Even the likes of George W Bush and Donald Trump, not to mention the Merkels and Arderns of the world, are very different types of politicians than Atilla the Hun or Alaric the Goth.
They usually come to power with dreams of domestic reforms rather than foreign conquests. While in the realm of art and thought, most of the leading lights - from Pablo Picasso to Stanley Kubrick - are better known for depicting the senseless horrors of combat than for glorifying its architects.
As a result of all these changes, most governments stopped seeing wars of aggression as an acceptable tool to advance their interests, and most nations stopped fantasising about conquering and annexing their neighbours. It is simply not true that military force alone prevents Brazil from conquering Uruguay or prevents Spain from invading Morocco.
The parameters of peace
The decline of war is evident in numerous statistics. Since 1945, it has become relatively rare for international borders to be redrawn by foreign invasion, and not a single internationally recognised
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Biden* and BoJo* are really trying to provoke a response from Russia so they can impose sanctions and kill Nordstream2. This whole farce isn't about Ukraine at all. USA and UK (and NATO) are more than willing to throw Ukraine under the bus. After all, look how they abandoned Kiev (shredded files, destroyed computers, yanked their staff) and pulled their trainers and withdrew their CIA post all the way back to Brussels.
What they're trying to do is to drive a wedge between Germany and Russia, torpedo German competitiveness, and pull everyone back into the NATO fold, and Germany is spineless enough to let them do it.
This is a replay of GWB's "moving goalposts" for Saddam... sanctions will be applied if Russia invades Ukraine... well, if Russia does ANYTHING... oh,no, for troops in it's territory... oh no, for Navalny...
Sanctions are going to be applied no matter what Russia does, or doesn't do. That's the point.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:Luckily, Putin made it absolutely clear that a nation called Ukraine should never have existed by saying that Creating an independent Ukraine was 'madness'
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Biden* and BoJo*
Russian President Vladimir Putin, during a made-for-TV speech from the Kremlin, made his case that Ukraine was always a part of Russia, which indicates that Putin is looking to reacquire all of Ukraine.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/02/21/putin-russia-ukraine-histo
ry-robertson-sot-vpx.cnn
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:We'll see.
Originally posted by second:Quote:Luckily, Putin made it absolutely clear that a nation called Ukraine should never have existed by saying that Creating an independent Ukraine was 'madness'
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Biden* and BoJo*
Russian President Vladimir Putin, during a made-for-TV speech from the Kremlin, made his case that Ukraine was always a part of Russia, which indicates that Putin is looking to reacquire all of Ukraine.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/02/21/putin-russia-ukraine-histo
ry-robertson-sot-vpx.cnn
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
The only part of Ukraine that was important to Russia was Crimea. Sevastopol, specifically.
Why acquire a dumpster fire? It would be an economic, political, and security headache.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:I'm sure there are parts of Russia that Russia would be better off without, but since Putin isn't de-annexing those parts he should either annex all of Ukraine or leave it all alone and stop saying Ukraine is part of Russia. But who knows if Putin can control himself? Naked Greed: Putin nothing more than a gangster
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:We'll see.
Originally posted by second:Quote:Luckily, Putin made it absolutely clear that a nation called Ukraine should never have existed by saying that Creating an independent Ukraine was 'madness'
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Biden* and BoJo*
Russian President Vladimir Putin, during a made-for-TV speech from the Kremlin, made his case that Ukraine was always a part of Russia, which indicates that Putin is looking to reacquire all of Ukraine.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/02/21/putin-russia-ukraine-histo
ry-robertson-sot-vpx.cnn
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
The only part of Ukraine that was important to Russia was Crimea. Sevastopol, specifically.
Why acquire a dumpster fire? It would be an economic, political, and security headache.
https://www.theledger.com/story/opinion/columns/2022/01/23/naked-greed
-putin-nothing-more-than-gangster/6595895001/
Under dictatorships, the worst tendencies of capitalism run amok. Instead of acting in good faith, working through transparent contracts with others, and being held to legal standards, there’s a free-for-all mêlée of snatching up everything in sight: naked greed. Dictators and oligarchies favor one set of grabbers over another. Instead of settling wrangles in a courtroom, the disputants simply pay off the powers that be and have their competitors jailed – or worse. And they do not reinvest.
When the old USSR failed (for reasons too complex to go into in a short essay), the rotten old regime was replaced by a rotten – but quite different – new one. Rule of law had collapsed, and the Russian nation increasingly owed any stability it had to a class of organized crime combines assembled to steal what riches remained. Instead of focusing on honest competition and productivity (the mainstays of classical capitalism) there was a violent scramble for advantage - more Al Capone than Adam Smith.
The problem is that there’s only so much to rip off. As productivity drops (as it must, where there’s little incentive to stay in a rigged game) the savage battle for what remains has smaller and smaller rewards. So, they turn outward. “Kleptocracies” – where theft replaces honest yield – almost always turn to conquest. We’re reminded not of Caesar, but of Caligula. As world figure, Vladimir Putin plays as a dreadful George Washington and much better as “Scarface.”
The Kremlin, these days, looks a lot less like the august Roman Senate and a good bit more like the “Bada Bing” Club - snarling goodfellas with broken noses leering over a map of Eastern Europe, shoving markers around with their sawed-off shotguns and looking to roll into new territories, guns blazing.
Putin, as with Capone, is trapped. There’s nothing left to steal “back home.” What Putin and Capone share is that they were and are basically running complex pyramid schemes to stay in power – paying off supporters with the cash flow from earlier victims (aka “investors”). This kind of cycle has only one endpoint. It blows up in their faces if they cannot keep up. Expand or die.
There is little question of Putin’s intentions, which are out of his hands, anyway – he has people to pay off. Capone eventually met his end by going so far off the rails that the highest authorities took an interest, and the hope is that Putin has inflamed the same kind of angst in the international community. Capone is reported to have been a charming guy, when dealing with the opposition. Putin is, too. He’s a suave, smooth-talking international racketeer, but a mobster all the same.
Al
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
You're afraid of what a vaccine might do to you.
No I'm not, because I'll never take it. You're the one who has something to be afraid of, mudblood.
Quote:
Afraid of what a Afghan might do to you.
"An" Afghan, dummy.
And no I'm not. I don't live in a Democrat ran shithole. BLM wasn't even a thing around these parts.
Quote:
Afraid of being poor.
No I'm not. I'm better off than a great majority of Americans are.
Quote:
Go buy a gun to make yourself feel brave.
I already have one. I never take it out of the house because because I'm not a coward like you are.
Quote:
And don't forget to vote for the frightened guy (who hides his fear with bluster) wanting to withdraw from NATO:
You'd vote Trudeau for US President, you fucking goon.
Go eat a dick, brownshirt.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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Quote:
The Crisis in Ukraine Is Not About Ukraine. It's About Germany
Mike Whitney • February 11, 2022
The primordial interest of the United States, over which for centuries we have fought wars– the First, the Second and Cold Wars– has been the relationship between Germany and Russia, because united there, they’re the only force that could threaten us. And to make sure that that doesn’t happen.” George Friedman, STRATFOR CEO at The Chicago Council on Foreign Affairs
The Ukrainian crisis has nothing to do with Ukraine. It’s about Germany and, in particular, a pipeline that connects Germany to Russia called Nord Stream 2. Washington sees the pipeline as a threat to its primacy in Europe and has tried to sabotage the project at every turn. Even so, Nord Stream has pushed ahead and is now fully-operational and ready-to-go. Once German regulators provide the final certification, the gas deliveries will begin. German homeowners and businesses will have a reliable source of clean and inexpensive energy while Russia will see a significant boost to their gas revenues. It’s a win-win situation for both parties.
The US Foreign Policy establishment is not happy about these developments. They don’t want Germany to become more dependent on Russian gas because commerce builds trust and trust leads to the expansion of trade. As relations grow warmer, more trade barriers are lifted, regulations are eased, travel and tourism increase, and a new security architecture evolves. In a world where Germany and Russia are friends and trading partners, there is no need for US military bases, no need for expensive US-made weapons and missile systems, and no need for NATO. There’s also no need to transact energy deals in US Dollars or to stockpile US Treasuries to balance accounts. Transactions between business partners can be conducted in their own currencies which is bound to precipitate a sharp decline in the value of the dollar and a dramatic shift in economic power This is why the Biden administration opposes Nord Stream. It’s not just a pipeline, it’s a window into the future; a future in which Europe and Asia are drawn closer together into a massive free trade zone that increases their mutual power and prosperity while leaving the US on the outside looking in. Warmer relations between Germany and Russia signal an end to the “unipolar” world order the US has overseen for the last 75 years. A German-Russo alliance threatens to hasten the decline of the Superpower that is presently inching closer to the abyss. This is why Washington is determined to do everything it can to sabotage Nord Stream and keep Germany within its orbit. It’s a matter of survival.
That’s where Ukraine comes into the picture. Ukraine is Washington’s ‘weapon of choice’ for torpedoing Nord Stream and putting a wedge between Germany and Russia. The strategy is taken from page one of the US Foreign Policy Handbook under the rubric: Divide and Rule. Washington needs to create the perception that Russia poses a security threat to Europe. That’s the goal. They need to show that Putin is a bloodthirsty aggressor with a hair-trigger temper who cannot be trusted. To that end, the media has been given the assignment of reiterating over and over again, “Russia is planning to invade Ukraine.” What’s left unsaid is that Russia has not invaded any country since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, and that the US has invaded or toppled regimes in more than 50 countries in the same period of time, and that the US maintains over 800 military bases in countries around the world None of this is reported by the media, instead the focus is on “evil Putin” who has amassed an estimated 100,000 troops along the Ukrainian border threatening to plunge all of Europe into another bloody war.
All of the hysterical war propaganda is created with the intention of manufacturing a crisis that can be used to isolate, demonize and, ultimately, splinter Russia into sma
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Quote:
Update(2:30pmET): It's official: Putin has confirmed the change of status recognition while warning Kiev and the West that Russia's military will act against any further aggression. He warned that Ukraine's government must now halt all military actions against Donbas or whatever happens next will be on them.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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This is all the Biden* Administration's fault.
All of it.
Whatever happens is on Democrats.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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Quote:Meanwhile, in the real world:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The Ukrainian crisis has nothing to do with Ukraine. It’s about Germany and, in particular, a pipeline that connects Germany to Russia called Nord Stream 2. Washington sees the pipeline as a threat to its primacy in Europe and has tried to sabotage the project at every turn. Even so, Nord Stream has pushed ahead and is now fully-operational and ready-to-go. Once German regulators provide the final certification, the gas deliveries will begin. German homeowners and businesses will have a reliable source of clean and inexpensive energy while Russia will see a significant boost to their gas revenues. It’s a win-win situation for both parties.
https://www.eurasiareview.com/16022022-the-crisis-in-ukraine-is-not-ab
out-ukraine-its-about-germany-oped/
The Nord Stream-2 project is expected to directly transport natural gas from Russia to Germany through the Baltic Sea. Ukraine has hitherto acted as the “gatekeeper” for the transit of energy resources from Russia to Europe and bypassing this route would lead to a loss of approximately US$2-3 billion in revenue in transit fees per year[ii], thereby impacting the fragile Ukrainian economy. Geopolitically, it is seen as an attempt to weaken Ukraine’s leverage in its on-going political crisis with Russia. While Russia and Ukraine have signed a five-year gas-transit agreement and German Chancellor Angela Merkel has insisted that gas must continue to flow through Ukraine[iii], the volume of natural gas transported through this route is expected to reduce once Nord Stream-2 becomes operational. Moreover, taken in conjunction with the TurkStream pipeline - which will transport natural gas via the Black Sea from Russia to Turkey to Europe through Bulgaria - it will further diminish the reliance on Ukrainian natural gas corridors.
The former Soviet bloc countries such as the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Croatia – all dependent on Russian gas – oppose the Nord Stream-2 pipeline. These countries have raised concerns over two primary issues – first, is probable loss of transit fees if the energy supplies from Russia are diverted to the Nord Stream-2. Second, possible increase in the Russian influence on the European continent would prevent any formulation of comprehensive European policy on Russia. With Germany pressing ahead with the construction of the pipeline, these member states have committed themselves to diversification of energy resources. Member states like Poland and Lithuania have deepened their partnership with the US in LNG and constructed LNG terminals at Swinoujscie and Klaipeda respectively. Many of these member states have also joined the Three Seas Initiative[xxvii] which is primarily aimed at reducing dependence on Russian gas in Central and Eastern Europe.
To address some of the concerns of EU member states and the US, Germany is expected to offer some regulatory mechanisms which could include first, a mechanism that allows Germany to ‘shut-off’ Nord Stream-2 in case Russia puts pressure on Ukraine by cutting transit supplies or breach its treaty with Ukraine over energy supplies. Second, it could support the construction of LNG terminals for US LNG import to Europe as an alternate energy supplier.[xxix] However, the questions remain if these mechanisms will deliver in practice.
https://www.icwa.in/show_content.php?lang=1&level=3&ls_id=5896
&lid=4081#skipCont
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Question: Who asked for Nord Stream 2?
Answer: Angela Merkel
Quote:
Nord stream 2 is a trap pf Germany's own making
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/12/05/nord-stream
-2-is-a-trap-of-germanys-own-making/
Even in 2015, Germany was willing to throw Ukraine under the bus.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:From your article: Nord Stream 2 has been contentious since its inception in 2015 because it will deprive Ukraine of most of the estimated $2bn it earns annually in gas transit fees. It is opposed by the United States, while most of Eastern Europe is also against it. Concern has also been expressed by France, the U.K., Sweden, and Canada, and last month lawmakers in the German and European parliaments signed a letter to Angela Merkel asking her to stop the pipeline. Over the past week, all three candidates to replace Ms Merkel as leader of her Christian Democratic party spoke out against the pipeline, as have senior Social Democrats and Greens.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Question: Who asked for Nord Stream 2?
Answer: Angela MerkelQuote:
Nord stream 2 is a trap pf Germany's own making
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/12/05/nord-stream
-2-is-a-trap-of-germanys-own-making/
Even in 2015, Germany was willing to throw Ukraine under the bus.
Looks like a good deal for . . . Germany. Russia paid Germany for a million tons of pipeline steel and machinery which kept German industry busy. Russia can only get its money back if Germany buys Russian natural gas. Too bad for Russia if Germany never "certifies" Nord Stream 2 for operation.
Maybe Russia will force Germany to certify and pay by . . . cutting off the gas flowing through Ukraine and then to Germany. Who knows?
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Apparently Merkel was in a "fuck Ukraine and fuck the EU/USA" mood when she agitated for NS2. She was representing German interests
She was so interested in NS2 that she made all kinds of promises to Putin that she didn't keep: that NS2 wouldn't become a political football )it did) and that it wouldn't be subject to the Third Energy Package (it was)
The collective west had a habit of breaking promises!
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If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:When a politician's career ends, as Merkel's did, their promises end, unless there is a treaty ratified by The Bundestag. Putin better have a signed piece o' paper from The Bundestag, or else promises he thinks Merkel made to him are now dead letters. That would make Putin a sucker for paying all that money to Germany to build the Nord Stream 2 pipeline and then he gets nothing back because Merkel left town. He's gonna feel cheated if Germany doesn't certify that pipeline to operate. He'll kick the hell out of Ukraine for what Germany did. Nord Stream 2 will be Boondoggle 2.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Apparently Merkel was in a "fuck Ukraine and fuck the EU/USA" mood when she agitated for NS2. She was representing German interests
She was so interested in NS2 that she made all kinds of promises to Putin that she didn't keep: that NS2 wouldn't become a political football )it did) and that it wouldn't be subject to the Third Energy Package (it was)
The collective west had a habit of breaking promises!
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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So, when Obama left office, does that mean NATO ended?
When Billy left office, did NAFTA end?
Yipee!!
****
Signed and ratified contracts, treaties, and agreements are agreements between nations, not agreements between signatories. Russia, so far as I know, has not broken any treaties,agreements, or contracts. The USA OTOH has broken dozens in recent years, hundreds throughout it's history (starting with the various treaties they signed with the natives).
There is a reason why Russia says the USA is "not agreement capable". Keep doing that, and after a,while you get a reputation as being underhanded and unreliable.
Maybe the USA could get away with that in it's "sphere of unfluence" and during the "unipolar moment" but with economic and military power equalizing between the USA and the Russia/China combine, the USA is going to have to learn to behave like a normal nation, not an imperial power.
I have no hope of changing your mind about anything, altho I do find it weird that you would be advocating for war seeing as it was war that turned you into a freak
I just hope that others will be more informed.
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Quote:A real example, which may scare the hell out of you, Signym. Depends on whether an agreement with the USA means much. I know Russia's promises are worthless.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, when Obama left office, does that mean NATO ended?
When Billy left office, did NAFTA end?
Yipee!!
Why Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons — and what that means in an invasion by Russia
Three decades ago, the newly independent country of Ukraine was briefly the third-largest nuclear power in the world.
Thousands of nuclear arms had been left on Ukrainian soil by Moscow after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. But in the years that followed, Ukraine made the decision to completely denuclearize.
In exchange, the U.S., the U.K. and Russia would guarantee Ukraine's security in a 1994 agreement known as the Budapest Memorandum.
Now, that agreement is front and center again.
The narrative in Ukraine, publicly is: We had the world's third-largest nuclear arsenal, we gave it up for this signed piece of paper, and look what happened.
And it really doesn't look good for the international non-proliferation regime. Because if you have a country that disarms and then becomes a target of such a threat and a victim of such a threat at the hands of a nuclear-armed country, it just sends a really wrong signal to other countries that might want to pursue nuclear weapons.
More at https://www.npr.org/2022/02/21/1082124528/ukraine-russia-putin-invasio
n
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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More BS from SECOND. Let's not forget that the USA and NGOs engineered the overthrow of the democratically elected President of Ukraine, and Ukraine's been going downhill since then.
Like Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, and Iran and pretty much every nation the USA touched ever since WWII.
Kiev made the mistake of shelling the Donbas.
I imagine the pipeline thru Ukraine wl be shut down.
Will China recognize the DPR/LPR?
Will China take any lessons re:Taiwan from this incident?
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If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:Russia guaranteed Ukraine's independence in exchange for Ukraine giving up thousands of nukes. The guarantee was mobilized for the first time on March 4, 2014. So there was a meeting of the signatories of the Budapest Memorandum that was called by Ukraine and it did take place in Paris. And the foreign minister of the Russian Federation, Sergey Lavrov, who was in Paris at the time, simply did not show up. He wouldn't even come to the meeting in connection with the memorandum.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
More BS from SECOND. Let's not forget that the USA and NGOs engineered the overthrow of the democratically elected President of Ukraine, and Ukraine's been going downhill since then.
Like Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, and Iran and pretty much every nation the USA touched ever since WWII.
Russia argues that it signed memorandum with a different government, not with this "illegitimate" one. But that, of course, does not stand to any international legal kind of criteria. You don't sign agreements with the government, you sign it with the country.
https://www.npr.org/2022/02/21/1082124528/ukraine-russia-putin-invasio
n
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Oh, weren't you just posting that once a government changes hands, then all prior agreements are void? Or did you give up on that point?
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Democrats are able to get away with War because they can always say it's for humanitarian reasons.
Any Democrat that is pushing for war with Russia right now is just puppets for the NeoCon warmongers in Washington that are so hated by the public that they'd never get any public support for going into WWIII.
And the end of the day, who knows?
Maybe it was really Dick Cheney who was puppettering Fauci and paying the Chinese to unleash Covid so they could hand the Presidency to Joe Biden* and get the war started that they wanted back in 2017.
I mean really... What's 4 more years to them when they were able to fuck up the economy and make the plebs weaker anyhow. Just a tiny road bump.
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Quote:No. You failed the comprehension test. Putin pretends he doesn't comprehend the promise Russia made to Ukraine in exchange for thousands of H-bombs. The promise, the Budapest Memorandum, is well known, but Putin keeps imagining new versions, which change every day, that only he knows about.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, weren't you just posting that once a government changes hands, then all prior agreements are void? Or did you give up on that point?
Budapest Memorandum
https://www.google.com/search?q=Budapest+Memorandum
Budapest Memorandum at 25
Abstract
On December 5, 1994, leaders of the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Russian Federation met in Budapest, Hungary, to pledge security assurances to Ukraine in connection with its accession to the Treaty on the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) as a non-nuclear-weapons state. The signature of the so-called Budapest Memorandum concluded arduous negotiations that resulted in Ukraine’s agreement to relinquish the world’s third-largest nuclear arsenal.
This is part that confuses Putin: The signatories of the memorandum pledged to respect Ukraine’s territorial integrity and inviolability of its borders, and to refrain from the use or threat of military force.
https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/budapest-memorandum-25-betwee
n-past-and-future
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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And YOU posted that the government that Russia signed the agreement with was not the same as the pne that appealed to the agreement, and was therfore void.
Quote:That seems to be at odds with your previous post.
Russia argues that it signed memorandum with a different government, not with this "illegitimate" one. But that, of course, does not stand to any international legal kind of criteria. You don't sign agreements with the government, you sign it with the country.
Also, let's run a thought experiment: The USA signs an agreement with Mexico having to do with apprehending and extraditing drug barons. Then there is a left-wng military coup in Mexico, which becomes overtly hostile to the USA. Do we still honor the agreement?
I take it that you will no longer use that argument? (Not that I believe anything you post bc you're an inveterate liar.) Let's clear up that point before YOU try and move past it, OK?
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Pity would be no more,
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Quote:Signym, I have seen your line of argument in civil trials for breach of contract. Juries are NOT convinced by lawyers like you, Signym. The plain and simple words of the contract hold, no matter what "Signymesque" lawyers for the party breaking the contract say:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And YOU posted that . . .
Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum, pledging to respect Ukraine’s territorial integrity and inviolability of its borders, and to refrain from the use or threat of military force.
https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/budapest-memorandum-25-betwee
n-past-and-future
Putin and I know there are no juries, no judges, no courtrooms for Putin breaking a contract. He can break contracts, large and small, without facing a civil trial.
I know what happens when a Putinesque businessman loses a major civil trial in the United States. There is bankruptcy. The business goes out of business. Sometimes the businessman kills himself. Maybe Putin will, but I doubt it because there is no system of laws big enough to shutdown Putin's business. Maybe Germany, as one of Putin's largest customers, will shutdown Putin's business for him. Who knows? But I doubt Germany will even cut back their purchases from Putin's business.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:I have been looking for the actual documents of the memorandum, not what people have written "about" it, bc so often what people writ "about" things is plain wrong.
Originally posted by second:Quote:Signym, I have seen your line of argument in civil trials for breach of contract. Juries are NOT convinced by lawyers like you, Signym. The plain and simple words of the contract hold, no matter what "Signymesque" lawyers for the party breaking the contract say:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And YOU posted that . . .
Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum, pledging to respect Ukraine’s territorial integrity and inviolability of its borders, and to refrain from the use or threat of military force.
https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/budapest-memorandum-25-betwee
n-past-and-future
Putin and I know there are no juries, no judges, no courtrooms for Putin breaking a contract. He can break contracts, large and small, without facing a civil trial.
I know what happens when a Putinesque businessman loses a major civil trial in the United States. There is bankruptcy. The business goes out of business. Sometimes the businessman kills himself. Maybe Putin will, but I doubt it because there is no system of laws big enough to shutdown Putin's business. Maybe Germany, as one of Putin's largest customers, will shutdown Putin's business for him. Who knows? But I doubt Germany will even cut back their purchases from Putin's business.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
IN THE MEANTIME, YOU made the argument that agreements between Merkel and Putin were not valid because once Merkel left office the agreement was no longer valid.
The same argument has been used to negate the "not one inch eastward" agreement that the NATO nations had with Russia.
Then you yourself torpedoed that argument re: the Budapest Agreement, which YOU hold to be valid despite the violent coup that overthrew the government in Kiev.
So I'm wondering where you stand on that line of argument.
True?
True, but only when it suits your purposes?
False in all cases?
Untie that knot in your head and answer the question. If you can. Bc this is one of the MANY times you've cotradicted yourself fom one post to the next, and it sure would be nice to get a straight and direct answer from you.
Not that I think think will happen, bc you'll post ANYTHING if it suits your war on America.
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Harvard economist and former Obama adviser says Russia is 'basically a big gas station' and is otherwise 'incredibly unimportant' in the global economy
Despite Russia's size and wealth in raw materials, its economy is more on-par with Brazil than with nations like Germany, France, and the UK, according to the latest nominal GDP data from the World Bank. According to the World Bank, its economy is weaker than Italy's and South Korea's, two nations with less than half of Russia's population.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/harvard-economist-and-former-o
bama-adviser-says-russia-is-basically-a-big-gas-station-and-is-otherwise-incredibly-unimportant-in-the-global-economy/ar-AAU93UF?ocid=msedgntp
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Yes, we've heard that refrain before: "Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country"
It doesn't matter if Russia is important to the world economy. (It is, and not just as an energy source but also as a source of food, strategic metals, and minerals, and you'll find out just HOW important it is if Russia decides to withhold its exports,)
The important question, for Russia and Russians is: Is the Russian economy sufficient to sustain RUSSIA?
Russia, unlike China, has been eliminating economic dependence on the west for over 20 years. (China has been leaning heavily on western "markets" to develop their economy.)
AFA GDP is concerned... GDP figures are meaningless bc they include a lot of non-productive activity (ie financialism and trivial services like cappuccino-making). even comparing Germany's GDP to the UK's is flawed, because Germany is a manufacturing economy and the UK's is primarily finacialism (the FIRE sector- Finance, Insurance, Real Estate, which goes up during bubbles and collapses when they do) and has little to do with actual ... yanno... production.
Like the USA, if Britain were to be cut off from the world's productive economies ... the economies that export commodities and finished products... Britain would immediately suffer because they don't make enough to sustain their own people.
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Pity would be no more,
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, weren't you just posting that once a government changes hands, then all prior agreements are void? Or did you give up on that point?
Nord Stream 2: Germany halts certification of Russian pipeline
The West showed Tuesday it was ready to target Russia's huge energy industry — even at the risk of hurting itself — after Moscow ordered troops into parts of eastern Ukraine.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nord-stream-2-germany-halts-certi
fication-of-russian-pipeline/ar-AAUa3ai?ocid=msedgntp
Agreements depend on the character of the nation state who signed said agreements. Putin has none. Go Germany...
T
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Germany indicts man for sale of military machinery to Russia
Germany has indicted a businessman on suspicion of breaking arms control laws by helping Russia purchase sophisticated machinery that could be used to make chemical weapons.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/germany-indicts-man-for-sale-of-m
ilitary-machinery-to-russia/ar-AAU9RHm?ocid=msedgntp
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Kremlin admits that a dramatic Security Council meeting on Ukraine was recorded in advance, after people realized a minister's watch showed the wrong time
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/kremlin-admits-that-a-dramatic-se
curity-council-meeting-on-ukraine-was-recorded-in-advance-after-people-realized-a-minister-s-watch-showed-the-wrong-time/ar-AAUabwm?ocid=msedgntp
Putins' propaganda machine gets caught. To funny...
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Quote:You didn't try very hard.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I have been looking for the actual documents of the memorandum, not what people have written "about" it, bc so often what people writ "about" things is plain wrong.
Try: https://www.google.com/search?q=budapest+memorandum+1994+full+text
The very first item is UN Treaties: Memorandum on security assurances in connection with Ukraine’s accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons
https://treaties.un.org/Pages/showDetails.aspx?objid=0800000280401fbb
What does it say?
The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.
https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume
-3007-I-52241.pdf
That's not all it says. There is more about economic coercion, as in don't coerce Ukraine. I think Putin read the list of things Russia is not to do, then used the list as a "to do" list. Putin is a comedian of the absurd.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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And still, SECOND, you have not answered the question.
It's an imprtant question bc the USA has used it to abrogate all kinds of treaties, and to break all kinds of promises.
So, what say ye?
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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“No lows too low, no lies too blatant, no red lines too red to cross,” Lithuanian Prime Minister Ingrida Simonyte said in summing up the political disgust felt from Europe to North America and democracies hugging Russia’s borders in Asia, such as Japan and South Korea.
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2022/02/23/2003773601
Quote:I say you are using Whataboutism. Soviet propaganda was What about America doing this? What about doing that? The Soviet Union is gone, but the Russian Whataboutism lingers on.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And still, SECOND, you have not answered the question.
It's an imprtant question bc the USA has used it to abrogate all kinds of treaties, and to break all kinds of promises.
So, what say ye?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Second's finally getting that war that he's been wanting.
Whatever name Halliburton is going by these days is very happy.
Democrats are cancer.
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US embassy trolls Russia with meme after Putin's revisionist history rant on why Ukraine is not a real country
The US Embassy in Kyiv trolled Putin with a meme about the history of Kyiv and Moscow.
Kyiv was founded centuries before Moscow, and was once at the center of a political federation that Russia's name is derived from.
Putin has repeatedly suggested that Ukraine is not a real country.
The US embassy in Kyiv trolled Russia with a meme on Tuesday after President Vladimir Putin went on revisionist history tirade on why Ukraine is not a real country.
A photo posted to Twitter by the embassy shows four photos of religious sites in Kyiv from the years 996 to 1108. Underneath is four photos of a forest with "Moscow" written underneath and marked with the same timeline.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-embassy-trolls-russia-with-mem
e-after-putin-s-revisionist-history-rant-on-why-ukraine-is-not-a-real-country/ar-AAUaFLF?ocid=msedgntp
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Quote:Referring to Vladimir Putin, “No lows too low, no lies too blatant, no red lines too red to cross,” Lithuanian Prime Minister Ingrida Simonyte said in summing up the political disgust felt from Europe to North America and democracies hugging Russia’s borders in Asia, such as Japan and South Korea.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Second's finally getting that war that he's been wanting.
Whatever name Halliburton is going by these days is very happy.
Democrats are cancer.
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2022/02/23/2003773601
Lithuania was in the Soviet Union. If Putin wants, Lithuania will join the Russian Federation. I don't expect people who defend Trump to understand, but the Lithuanian Prime Minister understood what Putin is doing in Ukraine can happen in Lithuania.
In Lithuania, Russian-speakers make up 15 percent of the entire population; in Latvia 34 percent; and in Estonia the number might be as high as 30 percent.
This has been a major source of worry for the Baltic states, because in the recent past Russia has demonstrated its ability to annex territories and create puppet states in places as disparate as eastern Ukraine, Crimea, Georgia’s South Ossetia and Abkhazia and Moldova’s Transnistria, all while using the ambiguous policies of protecting its compatriots.
https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/articles/14240/compatriot-games-ru
ssian-speaking-minorities-in-the-baltic-states
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Zelensky rules out ceding territory to Russia in late-night address to Ukraine
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/zelensky-rules-out-ceding-territo
ry-to-russia-in-late-night-address-to-ukraine/ar-AAU986A?ocid=msedgntp
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Hope you're ready to put your boots on and go to war, Ted.
I won't be joining you. Have fun.
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