The Undoing of Joss Whedon – Jan. 17, 2022

POSTED BY: second
UPDATED: Thursday, April 27, 2023 09:14
VIEWED: 7190
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Friday, January 21, 2022 6:32 PM

Lila Shapiro interviews Joss Whedon. Whedon once wrote a line that could have served as a warning to all of us. In Firefly, one of the crew members, Jayne, accidentally tosses the spoils of a botched robbery into the hands of the town’s poor. Jayne is not a good man, but when he returns to the town years later, he sees its residents have erected a statue in his honor. When he confides to the crew’s captain that he’s unsettled by this development, the captain just stares into the distance. “It’s my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of ’em was one kinda sombitch or another,” he says. “Ain’t about you, Jayne. It’s about what they need.”

“Nobody ever fell from a pedestal into anything but a pit,” Whedon told me on a call one day. A few months had passed since our conversations at his house. In that time, he’d finally made peace with himself, he said.

************************

The Firefly creator, once an icon of Hollywood feminism, is now an outcast accused of misogyny. How did he get here?

As fans, we have a bad habit of deifying those whose work we respect. When you build these people up so big they have nowhere to go but down, I don’t know why we’re surprised when they turn out to be fallible humans who fall.

This past spring, Whedon invited me to spend a couple of afternoons with him at his home in Los Angeles. By then, I had spoken with dozens of people who knew him; after months of agonizing over whether to grant my request for an interview, he had decided to talk, too. Whedon, 57, lives in Santa Monica, 13 blocks from the ocean, on a street lined with magnolia trees and $5 million homes. His house is open, airy, modern. He sat hunched over on a black leather couch, his fingers clicking together, the thumbs tapping each of the other digits in quick succession whenever the conversation shifted toward his recent troubles. Pale and angular with bags under his eyes, he no longer much resembled the plump-cheeked Puck who once impishly urged a profile writer to describe him as “doughy” and “jowly.” It was a perfect day in Santa Monica, as almost every day in Santa Monica is. But Whedon wanted to stay inside. Gazing through a wall of glass at his lush backyard, he announced in his quiet rumble of a voice that he was thinking of getting curtains. “The sun is my enemy,” he said.

Scattered around the room were paintings by his wife, the artist Heather Horton. They got married in February 2021, just after the wave of allegations had crested. At the sound of the garage door opening, his shoulders relaxed. “Heather’s coming back,” he said. She breezed through the room in a sundress and complimented me on my glasses. Then she was gone. Picking up a cup of tea, Whedon said he could no longer remain silent as people tried to pry his legacy from his hands. But there was a problem. Those people had set out to destroy him and would surely seize on his every utterance in an attempt to finish the job. “I’m terrified,” he said, “of every word that comes out of my mouth.”

In 2006, Equality Now presented Whedon with an award at an evening dedicated to honoring “men on the front lines” of feminism. In his speech, Whedon referred to his mother as “extraordinary, inspirational, tough, cool,” and “sexy.”

Sitting in his living room, he told me he sees a different side of her now. “She was a remarkable woman and an inspiring person,” he said, “but sometimes those are hard people to be raised by.”

Whedon had been thinking a lot about his childhood. He had been in therapy for the past few years, ever since he checked himself into an addiction-treatment center in Florida for a monthlong stay. As a younger man, he had channeled his pain into his work, but he was never particularly interested in picking apart the stories he always told himself about his past. Now, he didn’t have much else to do. The allegations against him had led friends to stop calling. He was out of work and wasn’t writing. What story could he even tell? There were things about his life he was only beginning to understand. “Not the things bein

SECOND

Monday, January 24, 2022 6:54 AM

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2022/01/21/joss

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

THG

Monday, January 24, 2022 9:03 PM

Nothing about his victims? Whedon had a “history of being casually cruel.”

T

SECOND

Wednesday, January 26, 2022 12:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

Nothing about his victims? Whedon had a “history of being casually cruel.”

T

You wanna victim's story? Here's a story, told by the victim:

When Arden Leigh met Whedon in 2012, she was a sex educator in her 20s and author of The New Rules of Attraction, a book about being a female pickup artist. She picked him up at a club. After their second date, Whedon sent her DVDs of Dollhouse. The heroine, played by Buffy alum Eliza Dushku, has no friends, no family, and no personality. A secret corporation has used advanced technology to erase her memory and turn her into a “doll” — a living robot customized to cater to the darkest desires of the company’s wealthy clients. Some critics argued the premise was sexist, but Leigh, who’d worked as a professional dominatrix, related to the dolls and was moved by Whedon’s depiction of them. She and Whedon began a relationship as “owner and doll.” For the most part, she found it gratifying, and she believed he did too.

Whedon told Leigh he identified with a character in Dollhouse: Topher, the nerdy scientist who imprints the dolls with their personalities. It’s not a flattering comparison. As one of Topher’s colleagues points out, he was picked to work at the dollhouse because he had no morals: “You had always thought of people as playthings. This is not a judgment. You always take good care of your toys.” That last line is disingenuous. Topher doesn’t take good care of his dolls, and in the end, according to Leigh, neither did Whedon. On Dollhouse, she reminded me, bad dolls are banished to “the attic,” a room where they are forced to relive their worst nightmares over and over. In her epilogue to The New Rules of Attraction, Leigh wrote that one of her worst memories was of a boyfriend breaking up with her on her birthday. Whedon read the book, and they talked about the epilogue. In 2015, hours before her birthday, he came over to her house and told her their relationship was over. “If he was like, What could I do to Arden that would be her worst nightmare?, that would have been it,” she said. “Joss destroyed a beautiful thing just to show he had the power to. That’s literally everything you need to know about him.”

More stories at https://www.vulture.com/article/joss-whedon-allegations.html

You can read the book Joss Whedon read, Arden Leigh, The New Rules of Attraction: How to Get Him, Keep Him, and Make Him Beg for More
from the mirrors at
https://libgen.unblockit.how/search.php?req=The+New+Rules+of+Attractio
n

Before you download the book, a long quote from Joss Whedon's victim, Arden Leigh, Chapter Twenty "CLOSING THE DEAL"

When I was still a very young girl, my mother had an astrologer draw up my birth chart. The astrologer said something that I have remembered ever since my mother deemed me old enough to tell it to me: “Sex will be her Achilles heel.”

I’ve never been sure what that meant. In my late teens and early twenties when I was still a virgin, I feared it meant I’d never be very good at the act itself. Other times I’ve feared it meant my weakness for sex would keep me in relationships that weren’t right for me (which has happened from time to time, admittedly, but never to any great detriment other than boredom). Still other times I’ve feared it meant I would give in to the temptation of sex too easily.

I’ve read so many advisories urging women to hold out on sex for as long as possible and make a man really work to earn her. The trouble with this is that when I find someone I desire, I really enjoy sex. Sometimes when you’re in a bar and you meet a Tommy Hilfiger model, you end up on his rooftop later that night and you love every minute of it. I don’t think women ought to apologize for enjoying sex. I don’t think we really need to pretend to be prudes, as long as we remember to look out for our

THG

Wednesday, January 26, 2022 11:05 PM

I'm pretty sure his victims second don't much care about why; but instead, what, he did to them.

T

SECOND

Thursday, January 27, 2022 12:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

I'm pretty sure his victims second don't much care about why; but instead, what, he did to them.

T

Everybody that watched a Joss Whedon show was the victim. I have known bosses who were cheating/lying bastards like Whedon and they didn't get much high quality work done in a 40 hour week, but despite that they bragged about their accomplishments as if they were the Center of the Universe. Their co-workers were actually doing most of the real work to keep the Whedonesque bastard from being fired. For most of his career, Joss has been goofing off and other people have done the actual work that Joss takes credit for doing.

Buffy ended in 2003, but his affairs did not. He slept with employees, fans, and colleagues. Eventually, his wife found out. In 2012, they split up. After learning he had been deceiving her for 15 years, she was diagnosed with complex PTSD.
https://www.vulture.com/article/joss-whedon-allegations.html

The adulterous bosses I've known didn't get much work done because they were tired, hungover, depressed about their marriage, etc. Joss Whedon was not different from them.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

THG

Thursday, January 27, 2022 8:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

I'm pretty sure his victims second don't much care about why; but instead, what, he did to them.

T

Everybody that watched a Joss Whedon show was the victim. I have known bosses who were cheating/lying bastards like Whedon and they didn't get much high quality work done in a 40 hour week, but despite that they bragged about their accomplishments as if they were the Center of the Universe. Their co-workers were actually doing most of the real work to keep the Whedonesque bastard from being fired. For most of his career, Joss has been goofing off and other people have done the actual work that Joss takes credit for doing.

Buffy ended in 2003, but his affairs did not. He slept with employees, fans, and colleagues. Eventually, his wife found out. In 2012, they split up. After learning he had been deceiving her for 15 years, she was diagnosed with complex PTSD.
https://www.vulture.com/article/joss-whedon-allegations.html

The adulterous bosses I've known didn't get much work done because they were tired, hungover, depressed about their marriage, etc. Joss Whedon was not different from them.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

OK

T

SECOND

Friday, January 28, 2022 5:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

OK

T

According to ScreenRant, the Firefly episodes were accidentally aired out of order. (I'm confident that was NOT an accident.) They kicked things off with the second installment, and the pilot was the last episode to debut. When Joss made the pilot, he did what pleased himself, but FOX was not pleased. Joss couldn't conceal that pilot like he concealed adultery. FOX took action against Joss by premiering Firefly in the Friday Night Death Slot. FOX knew Friday is the worst day for TV. I think FOX wanted a quick divorce from Joss although their marriage produced some beautiful children -- the episodes of Firefly. Too bad FOX/Joss broke up so soon. There could have been 100 children (assuming Joss didn't find other obnoxious ways to make FOX pissed off at him).

Why was Firefly cancelled
https://www.google.com/search?q=why+was+firefly+cancelled

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

THG

Saturday, January 29, 2022 12:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

OK

T

According to ScreenRant, the Firefly episodes were accidentally aired out of order. (I'm confident that was NOT an accident.) They kicked things off with the second installment, and the pilot was the last episode to debut. When Joss made the pilot, he did what pleased himself, but FOX was not pleased. Joss couldn't conceal that pilot like he concealed adultery. FOX took action against Joss by premiering Firefly in the Friday Night Death Slot. FOX knew Friday is the worst day for TV. I think FOX wanted a quick divorce from Joss although their marriage produced some beautiful children -- the episodes of Firefly. Too bad FOX/Joss broke up so soon. There could have been 100 children (assuming Joss didn't find other obnoxious ways to make FOX pissed off at him).

Why was Firefly cancelled
https://www.google.com/search?q=why+was+firefly+cancelled

I love firefly but not buffy or the other one Angel, I think. I love the shield series and what he did with the Avengers, but his public personality was a complete con. Apparently, he was a prick.

I don't wish to take shots at the guy, and he doesn't answer to me, but you reap what you sow. Having liked him and been a fan, it's a bit of a letdown.

T

SECOND

Monday, January 31, 2022 5:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

I love firefly but not buffy or the other one Angel, I think. I love the shield series and what he did with the Avengers, but his public personality was a complete con. Apparently, he was a prick.

I don't wish to take shots at the guy, and he doesn't answer to me, but you reap what you sow. Having liked him and been a fan, it's a bit of a letdown.

T

My theory is that Joss pissed off FOX TV people who then placed Firefly in the Friday Night Death Slot and scrambled the viewing order of episodes.

Joss could get back to work by writing comic books. He did The Runaways. If he delivers scripts on time and avoids obnoxiousness, he won't be cancelled. Since Joss delivered only 6 issues in 14 months, it is not a certainty he won't get cancelled. Runaways #25-30 (April 2007 - June 2008)

The Joss Whedon Era
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Runaways_story_arcs#The_Joss_Whe
don_era

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

THG

Monday, January 31, 2022 10:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

I love firefly but not buffy or the other one Angel, I think. I love the shield series and what he did with the Avengers, but his public personality was a complete con. Apparently, he was a prick.

I don't wish to take shots at the guy, and he doesn't answer to me, but you reap what you sow. Having liked him and been a fan, it's a bit of a letdown.

T

My theory is that Joss pissed off FOX TV people who then placed Firefly in the Friday Night Death Slot and scrambled the viewing order of episodes.

Joss could get back to work by writing comic books. He did The Runaways. If he delivers scripts on time and avoids obnoxiousness, he won't be cancelled. Since Joss delivered only 6 issues in 14 months, it is not a certainty he won't get cancelled. Runaways #25-30 (April 2007 - June 2008)

The Joss Whedon Era
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Runaways_story_arcs#The_Joss_Whe
don_era

The evidence of him being a prick is there Second so your comment about FOX fucking with him because he was a jerk is plausible. That said, he is a major talent so he will work again. It just may take a while. If he is smart his public profile will become his work profile.

Just my opinion, but I feel what he needs to do now is fully take responsibility for his indiscretions and write something to good for the money people to turn down. The thing about once being a fan is that he gets the benefit of the doubt with me if he is sorry and has changed.

T

SECOND

Tuesday, February 1, 2022 3:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

The evidence of him being a prick is there Second so your comment about FOX fucking with him because he was a jerk is plausible. That said, he is a major talent so he will work again. It just may take a while. If he is smart his public profile will become his work profile.

Just my opinion, but I feel what he needs to do now is fully take responsibility for his indiscretions and write something to good for the money people to turn down. The thing about once being a fan is that he gets the benefit of the doubt with me if he is sorry and has changed.

T

Comics are Joss Whedon's future. He could do Firefly. Or something:

You can download for free Joss Whedon’s Runaways Vol. 08 – Dead End Kids (2009) (225 MB)
https://getcomics.info/marvel/runaways-vol-1-11-extras-tpb-collection-
2004-2015/
The comic has time travel, aliens, magic, superheroes, amazing flying machines, criminals, bad parenting, fist/sword/gun fights, gender fluidity (a Runaway can shift from female to male and back again), the whole Joss Whedon shebang, except no demons nor vampires, but does have a cannibal.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

THG

Tuesday, February 1, 2022 8:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

The evidence of him being a prick is there Second so your comment about FOX fucking with him because he was a jerk is plausible. That said, he is a major talent so he will work again. It just may take a while. If he is smart his public profile will become his work profile.

Just my opinion, but I feel what he needs to do now is fully take responsibility for his indiscretions and write something to good for the money people to turn down. The thing about once being a fan is that he gets the benefit of the doubt with me if he is sorry and has changed.

T

Comics are Joss Whedon's future. He could do Firefly. Or something:

You can download for free Joss Whedon’s Runaways Vol. 08 – Dead End Kids (2009) (225 MB)
https://getcomics.info/marvel/runaways-vol-1-11-extras-tpb-collection-
2004-2015/
The comic has time travel, aliens, magic, superheroes, amazing flying machines, criminals, bad parenting, fist/sword/gun fights, gender fluidity (a Runaway can shift from female to male and back again), the whole Joss Whedon shebang, except no demons nor vampires, but does have a cannibal.

Agreed

T

SECOND

Wednesday, February 2, 2022 11:27 PM

All New Firefly is Joss Whedon's next writing job, if he wants it.
https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/comics/series/154565/all-new-firefly

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

SECOND

Saturday, February 19, 2022 4:30 PM

Here is an idea for Joss. The idea might motivate him enough to leave early retirement and go back to work on Firefly!

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

THG

Saturday, February 19, 2022 6:56 PM

Interesting video SECOND. It clams my firefly experience is scrambled up and this would fix it. I see what he is saying but my understanding of Simon is that he is super intelligent and would do anything to protect his sister. Being the smartest person in the room means he could role play being a representee of the Alliance. He set the whole thing up. He was role playing when he showed up to Serenity with his sister in a box. He was representing himself as someone else. We also know he has courage and that too would allow him to act out a part and represent himself as being something he is not.

I don’t think he could have gleaned all he needed in such a short visit to the facility where they were keeping River. And the role he was playing may have limited his inquiries into what they were doing. And remember, he still needed a brain scan of River before he could fully understand what they had done to her. That was the key to his knowing how to treat her.

One could understand Simon being a bit secretive when it comes to sharing about her with the crew. Again, role playing to protect her. She was after all being turned into an operative for the Alliance. If they knew that and understood what that meant, they may have felt she was more of a threat to them then they realized and had to go. Remember again, we saw him telling the crew what he wanted. Perhaps what he felt he needed to. We didn't have insight into what he was thinking.

The videos' premise is Simon not being able to. I think he could and did.

T

SECOND

Sunday, February 20, 2022 6:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

Interesting video SECOND.

T

Joss hasn’t written a novel before. Now he has the time. The video from the fan known as Fireflyin’ is that novel’s plot:

For what it’s worth, here's my pitch regarding how River is Recaptured;

You bring back Saffron as an antagonist who is just one of a number of pirates / mercenaries / bounty hunter types attempting to steal some particularly valuable cargo from Serenity. The crew’s concern is defending the ship against the would-be-thieves. For once, they are on the other side of the heist.

Twist ending; Saffron wasn't after the cargo at all, but was just using that as a diversion to get close to and kidnap River. Saffron is one of the few people in the 'Verse who knows that River is on Serenity (they share a single scene together in 'Mrs Reynolds'), AND would wish harm on the crew.

Not only is Saffron going to get a big payday but she gets to hurt and humiliate Mal in the worst possible way; she takes away his ability to be a noble hero who always looks out for his crew. Somehow Saffron will put Mal into a position where he has to make a split-second decision whether to rescue River from Saffron or save his ship. Mal chooses to save Serenity and Saffron escapes with River (with Simon in hot pursuit). Mal’s decision starts the downward trajectory of his relationship with Simon (and the rest of the crew) that we witness the tail end of in the movie.

More about River Recaptured here: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefly/comments/k58o3d/river_recaptured/

After the Joss Whedon River Recaptured novel sells more copies than the sum of all previous Firefly novels, Joss can joke that his unfortunate career hiatus was a blessing. He needed to set aside some quiet time to write the novel. There could be a second novel – Washburn Returns – that sells even more copies. Joss goes onward to become a full-time novelist who eventually becomes the director of the movies (or maybe cartoons with the original Firefly actors doing voices) made from his novels. Wouldn’t that be nice? Joss hasn’t directed cartoons, so why not?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

THG

Sunday, February 20, 2022 8:03 PM

It would make for a good episode but unless it all works out in the end, I'm against it. I prefer episodes that bring the crew closer together not drives them apart. One of the things shows do after time is to remove all the reasons you watch the show. There is nobody left to like, to root for, to care about.

Besides, I don't see how what you suggest changes the timeline as the video does.

T

SECOND

Wednesday, September 21, 2022 6:07 PM

20 years ago, one sci-fi failure almost changed everything, Published Sep. 20, 2022

https://www.inverse.com/culture/firefly-20-year-annivesary-scifi-show

The article punches Joss below the belt:

Quote:
Unlike Whedon’s most famous cult series — Buffy the Vampire Slayer — Firefly hasn’t aged well. . . . River Tam’s male-gazey vibe might have been contextualized as cool by pop culture progressives back then, but plays out as a bad fanboy trope now — especially given our shifted understanding of Whedon’s behavior behind the scenes.

Back to Firefly:

Quote:
So, what was Firefly good at? What is the positive legacy of the show, other than the cool spaceship design? This is an easy one: The actors are all pretty great. Nathan Fillion is perfect as a sugar-free Han Solo. Gina Torres is deeply underrated. Summer Glau does an admirable job of escaping various annoying Whedon tropes. Morena Baccarin is fun. And, of course, Alan Tudyk is reliably hilarious.

If you believe characters are bigger than the narratives they occupy, then the true power of Firefly was its ability to basically map various aspects of fandom obsessions pretty much on accident. For better or worse, those performances reflected something in sci-fi and fantasy fans of the time. In the end, the sky may have been taken from the crew of the Serenity, but for a brief moment, this gang of desperados captured the soul of science fiction.

Turns out, they just couldn’t keep it.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

SECOND

Saturday, April 22, 2023 4:03 PM

WTF Happened to Joss Whedon? (April 21, 2023)

In this episode of WTF Happened to this Celebrity, we look into the stunning rise and fall of one-time geek hero Joss Whedon.

In 1995, Whedon would land his first and to date only Academy Award nomination as one of the writers on the groundbreaking Pixar film Toy Story. The script had been in development for several years but just didn’t quite have the wow factor. So Pixar sought out Whedon to punch it up, which he did by adding the character of Rex (the toy Dinosaur) and giving a more substantial role for Bo Peep as well as taking the Buzz Lightyear character from a dim-witted self aware character to an action figure that doesn’t know he is a toy which many say saved the film.

More at https://www.joblo.com/wtf-happened-to-joss-whedon/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

THG

Thursday, April 27, 2023 12:17 AM

It's called abuse of power TWO. And apparently it goes back to his beginnings in the industry. Too bad...

T

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, April 27, 2023 9:14 AM

It's called she said some unsubstantiated bullshit is what it's called.

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Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.