IRAN: Trump's war?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 9, 2026 08:29
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SIGNYM

Sunday, June 23, 2019 3:15 PM (P)

Trump was pretty clear when he was campaigning that Iran was the exception to his non-interventionist policy. (Not that Trump has made much success of troop withdrawal and non-intervention anyway.) Even Michael Flynn was pretty hot against Iran. Flynn was also pro-Erdogan.

Russia isn't really keen on a mideast conflagration. I keep reading that Russia and Iran have very different ideas on what they want the Mideast to look like, and Iran has in reality made good progress in completing the Shia Crescent by supporting Iraq, Syria, and Hezbollah in Lebanon. So there is good reason to try and thwart Iran's ambitions, and the current leaders of Iran may be just Trump-like enough to use "maximum pressure" themselves against Trump. Which, again, makes it all the more strange that Trump backed down.

I think what Russia has proposed to Iran is that they'll get around the sanctions by facilitating Iran's oil trade with Russia and with China, in an oil-for-goods deal that will blunt the sanctions worst effects. I don't know if that's good enough for Iran, or if the Iranian leadership really wants to bloody Trump's nose.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

SECOND

Sunday, June 23, 2019 5:43 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Anyway, back to Iran.

I speculate that a reason why Bolt-on and Pompous are in the administration is because Trump figured they would eagerly back his Iran plans. Which makes Trump backing-down even more unusual. Someone must have made him see the light.

Trump is claiming nobody made him see the light because he will bomb Iran later:

President Trump criticized the media on Saturday for reporting that he halted plans for a military strike on Iran, tweeting that he had merely ordered the strike to not go forward "at this time."

In a tweet Saturday evening, the president appeared to indicate that a military strike on Iran could be possible in the coming days unless tensions between the two countries eased.

"I never called the strike against Iran “BACK,” as people are incorrectly reporting, I just stopped it from going forward at this time!" Trump tweeted.

The White House did not immediately return a request for clarification on the president's tweet.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/449876-trump-claims-media-
got-it-wrong-on-iran-strike-i-never-called-the

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Sunday, June 23, 2019 6:02 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Trump was pretty clear when he was campaigning that Iran was the exception to his non-interventionist policy. (Not that Trump has made much success of troop withdrawal and non-intervention anyway.) Even Michael Flynn was pretty hot against Iran. Flynn was also pro-Erdogan.

FOX News Tucker Carlson thinks Trump did not bomb Iran because of America's upcoming Presidential Campaign.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, June 23, 2019 6:05 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:

"I never called the strike against Iran “BACK,” as people are incorrectly reporting, I just stopped it from going forward at this time!" Trump tweeted.

The White House did not immediately return a request for clarification on the president's tweet.

Seems pretty clear to me. What is to clarify?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Sunday, June 23, 2019 6:29 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:

"I never called the strike against Iran “BACK,” as people are incorrectly reporting, I just stopped it from going forward at this time!" Trump tweeted.

The White House did not immediately return a request for clarification on the president's tweet.

Seems pretty clear to me. What is to clarify?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Apparently, 6ix, you have never pointed a gun at someone who is also armed. It is a very poor strategy to then turn around and walk away. You might be shot in the back. Or not. As Trump would say, "We'll see."

Trump’s Catchphrase: ‘We’ll See’
www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000005877823/trump-catchphrase-we
ll-see.html

Maybe I should clarify: What will Trump do next? Then what after that? Then after that? Quite clearly, Trump has no long range plan. He needs to get one and then let the Iranians know what it is. Him saying "We'll see" will only motivate Iran to build in secret a huge stockpile of nukes as soon as possible. Then Iran will be respected by Trump in the same way as Kim Jong-un of N Korea. Maybe Kim will secretly sell Iran a dozen nukes in exchange for oil? It will be a win-win for Kim and Iran, but not what Trump was expecting and he will only have himself to blame for breaking a treaty with Iran.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Sunday, June 23, 2019 8:22 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Trump was pretty clear when he was campaigning that Iran was the exception to his non-interventionist policy. (Not that Trump has made much success of troop withdrawal and non-intervention anyway.) Even Michael Flynn was pretty hot against Iran. Flynn was also pro-Erdogan.

Russia isn't really keen on a mideast conflagration. I keep reading that Russia and Iran have very different ideas on what they want the Mideast to look like, and Iran has in reality made good progress in completing the Shia Crescent by supporting Iraq, Syria, and Hezbollah in Lebanon. So there is good reason to try and thwart Iran's ambitions, and the current leaders of Iran may be just Trump-like enough to use "maximum pressure" themselves against Trump. Which, again, makes it all the more strange that Trump backed down.

I think what Russia has proposed to Iran is that they'll get around the sanctions by facilitating Iran's oil trade with Russia and with China, in an oil-for-goods deal that will blunt the sanctions worst effects. I don't know if that's good enough for Iran, or if the Iranian leadership really wants to bloody Trump's nose.

I have yet to hear a single reason for why getting into a war with Iran is a good idea, or necessary. For why? I have not heard a single good idea, not even a bad idea - no motivation for it. Did Bolton have an Iranian neighbor that played their music too loud? "We need the oil." Nothing, not a single reason, not even a decent lie.
Let us know if you have a guess.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, June 23, 2019 9:33 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Apparently, 6ix, you have never pointed a gun at someone who is also armed.

Nope. Can't say that I have.

Armed or otherwise.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Sunday, June 23, 2019 10:00 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Apparently, 6ix, you have never pointed a gun at someone who is also armed.

Nope. Can't say that I have.

Armed or otherwise.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Back in 1988, Ronald Reagan's Navy killed 290 people on Iran Air Flight 655. The Iranians have not forgotten, even if you and Trump never knew it happened. The Iranians have not forgotten that Trump pulled out of a nuclear treaty with Iran, while all the other countries that signed it did not. Today, Sunday, Trump is talking about some kind of economic deal with Iran. Iran can't trust him to keep his word on that or anything else. They aren't going to turn around for him so that he can shoot them in the back. Trump has managed to make it impossible for American diplomats, or the next President, to negotiate with Iran for many more years. And it is all because Trump hates Obama and the Iran nuclear treaty Obama signed. Trump wants his own version of that treaty, but he is not gonna get it now or ever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_nuclear_deal_framework
www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-iran-usa/iran-warns-of-risk-of-conf
lict-trump-sees-scope-for-deal-idUSKCN1TO0DX

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Sunday, June 23, 2019 10:32 PM (P)

Quote:

Trump was pretty clear when he was campaigning that Iran was the exception to his non-interventionist policy. (Not that Trump has made much success of troop withdrawal and non-intervention anyway.) Even Michael Flynn was pretty hot against Iran. Flynn was also pro-Erdogan.

Russia isn't really keen on a mideast conflagration. I keep reading that Russia and Iran have very different ideas on what they want the Mideast to look like, and Iran has in reality made good progress in completing the Shia Crescent by supporting Iraq, Syria, and Hezbollah in Lebanon. So there is good reason to try and thwart Iran's ambitions, and the current leaders of Iran may be just Trump-like enough to use "maximum pressure" themselves against Trump. Which, again, makes it all the more strange that Trump backed down.

I think what Russia has proposed to Iran is that they'll get around the sanctions by facilitating Iran's oil trade with Russia and with China, in an oil-for-goods deal that will blunt the sanctions worst effects. I don't know if that's good enough for Iran, or if the Iranian leadership really wants to bloody Trump's nose.- SIGNY

I have yet to hear a single reason for why getting into a war with Iran is a good idea, or necessary. For why? I have not heard a single good idea, not even a bad idea - no motivation for it. Did Bolton have an Iranian neighbor that played their music too loud? "We need the oil." Nothing, not a single reason, not even a decent lie.
Let us know if you have a guess. - CC

I have a few guesses but I don't know how good they are. But in order to explain them I have to go back to three of our other MENA wars: Iraq, Libya, and Syria.

I don't think there was a single person in the GWB administration (except maybe GWB himself, who was just Cheney's sock puppet) who believed that Saddam had WMD or wanted to topple Saddam because he was a bad man. But clearly, the war was going to be prosecuted no matter how thin the excuses. And idiocy only goes so far in explaining why a whole host within the GWB administration supported this war: TPTB ... not the politicians, the REAL PTB .... have to support it too, or it's going nowhere. So I started looking for a reason WHY the global elite might want that war, and I found one: IF Saddam Hussein was found to be in substantial compliance with the UN's mandate that he destroy his WMD stockpile, THEN sanctions against Iraq would be lifted. ANd that's what Hans Blix's inspection was all about: It wasn't about GWB foaming at the mouth, it was about ending UN sanctions. And making future oil contracts possible because - ironically- Iraq's oil fields had been preserved by decades of sanctions. And there were, in fact, oil contracts with Russia and France that had been written up, and pens were poised to sign them as soon as Blix gave the go-ahead.

And that's why the closer Blix got to the end of his inspections, the more hyped-up the hysteria got: WMD! Mushroom cloud! East, west, north south somewhat of Baghdad! TPTB could not let that inspection be completed! (Don't forget, it was our bombs that drove Hans Blix out of Iraq, not Saddam Hussein.) What the western press didn't tell you was that Iraq's soon-to-be signed contracts with France and Russia meant that Iraq was to be paid in SOMETHING OTHER THAN DOLLARS. In this case, a basket of currencies including the Euro, and gold.

There goes the petrodollar!!

Libya. Obama. Same story. Not a single person in the Obama administration really believed that Moammar Qaddafi was "massacring his own people" and - quite frankly- if he had been they wouldn't have given two shits about it. Moammar had given up nuclear ambitions long before. So why was France, the US, and the UK so hot to trot to take down the Libyan government? Because Libya- the wealthiest nation in Africa, with the highest standard of living and education, where newlyweds got free housing - was about to emark on lau

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, June 23, 2019 10:48 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Apparently, 6ix, you have never pointed a gun at someone who is also armed.

Nope. Can't say that I have.

Armed or otherwise.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Back in 1988, Ronald Reagan's Navy killed 290 people on Iran Air Flight 655. The Iranians have not forgotten, even if you and Trump never knew it happened. The Iranians have not forgotten that Trump pulled out of a nuclear treaty with Iran, while all the other countries that signed it did not. Today, Sunday, Trump is talking about some kind of economic deal with Iran. Iran can't trust him to keep his word on that or anything else. They aren't going to turn around for him so that he can shoot them in the back. Trump has managed to make it impossible for American diplomats, or the next President, to negotiate with Iran for many more years. And it is all because Trump hates Obama and the Iran nuclear treaty Obama signed. Trump wants his own version of that treaty, but he is not gonna get it now or ever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_nuclear_deal_framework
www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-iran-usa/iran-warns-of-risk-of-conf
lict-trump-sees-scope-for-deal-idUSKCN1TO0DX

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

JONGSSTRAW

Monday, June 24, 2019 12:12 AM (P)

War with Iran, okay, sure. There's not much else on tv worth watching now except for maybe the ladies' FIFA World Cup which has had a few exciting moments, like the O.T. Penalty Kick win for Norway over Australia yesterday.

1KIKI

Monday, June 24, 2019 12:21 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Iran can't trust him to keep his word on that or anything else. They aren't going to turn around for him so that he can shoot them in the back. Trump has managed to make it impossible for American diplomats, or the next President, to negotiate with Iran for many more years.

Putin had it right when he characterized Trump years ago as "not-agreement-capable".

WISHIMAY

Monday, June 24, 2019 12:37 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
I have always been glad that hubbs left the service before he would've been sent overseas. Didn't stick it out.

I can't believe how much time you wasted on that. WOW, you have NO LIFE beyond your marching orders, huh?

I must have touched a nerve with the "You can't do a damn thing about war and you know it." Really undermines your agenda as fear-mongers, doesn't it??

Take your war crap 'n shove it, it ain't working here no more.

1KIKI

Monday, June 24, 2019 12:39 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Anyway, the point is that Saudi Arabia needs $80/bbl oil to balance its budget, and Saudi Arabia is THE petrodollar mainstay. And since every nation needs USA (dollars) to buy oil (so far), that holds up the dollar's value, because it's not "just" a fiat currency, it's backed by oil.

lightly edited for clarity

1KIKI

Monday, June 24, 2019 12:42 AM (P)

You can't even quote YOURSELF correctly. How stupid is that?

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
"You can't do a damn thing about war and you know it."

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

WISHIMAY

Monday, June 24, 2019 12:51 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

When I went to college, local landlords charged EXORBITANT rents because they knew they had a captive market. Which is why there was that truism of college students living in living rooms, porches, and unfinished attics and basements. Do they not do that anymore? There's also that portrayal of starving students eating Raman endlessly. In my day, a crap ton of powdered milk with a little bit of sugar mixed into whole milk was a (fairly) nutritious cheap meal for the whole day. Do students not know how to feed themselves for cheap anymore?

No wonder you're brain damaged, there's more chemicals in those two things than anything else you can eat...

You are actually advocating that teens eat complete crap and couch surf to afford college. There is something wrong with your whole generation that you think your teens and 20's has to be about deprivation at a time when your body is building the cellular functions and reserves for the rest of your adulthood.

Imma LAUGH when you get cancer.

WISHIMAY

Monday, June 24, 2019 12:53 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
You can't even quote YOURSELF correctly. How stupid is that?Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
"You can't do a damn thing about war and you know it."

It wasn't SUPPOSED to be a direct quote, you dumb ass.

SECOND

Monday, June 24, 2019 1:24 AM (P)

Trump says he’s open to Iran talks without preconditions.

What happened?

Two things. First, Iran attacked two oil tankers in the Strait of Hormuz. Second, they shot down an American drone. I guess now we know what it takes to get Trump to talk.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-23/trump-says-he-s-prepared-to
-speak-to-iran-with-no-preconditions

Iranian leaders earlier this month rebuffed a similar offer by Pompeo, saying the suggestion amounted to “word play” given the Trump administration’s other actions toward the Islamic Republic, including pulling out of a multilateral nuclear deal.

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Monday, June 24, 2019 1:31 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
War with Iran, okay, sure. There's not much else on tv worth watching now except for maybe the ladies' FIFA World Cup which has had a few exciting moments, like the O.T. Penalty Kick win for Norway over Australia yesterday.

That was awesome. People who say penalty shootouts are boring or just luck, have no idea what it would be like to have to take that walk from the midfield to the penalty spot with 750 million plus people watching around the world - not to mention your teammates 50 feet away. You only have to see how Aussie's star player totally choked on her penalty kick attempt to know it's more than luck.

SIGNYM

Monday, June 24, 2019 2:05 AM (P)

Quote:
I must have touched a nerve with the "You can't do a damn thing about war and you know it." Really undermines your agenda as fear-mongers, doesn't it??
Take your war crap 'n shove it, it ain't working here no more.

I notice you got all kinds of opinions on OTHER things - which (you say) wouldn't make a a difference, but that doesn't keep you from spouting off anyway ... but somehow coming out and being antiwar kinda sticks in your craw? You must be allergic to antiwar statements or something. Yanno, secretly prowar but too much of a coward to take a position.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

JONGSSTRAW

Monday, June 24, 2019 4:14 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
War with Iran, okay, sure. There's not much else on tv worth watching now except for maybe the ladies' FIFA World Cup which has had a few exciting moments, like the O.T. Penalty Kick win for Norway over Australia yesterday.

That was awesome. People who say penalty shootouts are boring or just luck, have no idea what it would be like to have to take that walk from the midfield to the penalty spot with 750 million plus people watching around the world - not to mention your teammates 50 feet away. You only have to see how Aussie's star player totally choked on her penalty kick attempt to know it's more than luck.

Penalty shootouts are awesome. Almost had another one today, but France scored against Brazil in the closing minutes of extra time.

1KIKI

Monday, June 24, 2019 4:35 AM (P)

Trying to wrap my mind around the whole 'petrodollars' thing, because there seem to be several separate points of instability.

Quote:
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/072915/how-petrodollars-af
fect-us-dollar.asp

After the collapse of the Bretton Woods gold standard in the early 1970s, the United States struck a deal with Saudi Arabia to standardize oil prices in dollar terms. Through this deal, the petrodollar system was born, along with a paradigm shift away from pegged exchanged rates and gold-backed currencies to non-backed, floating rate regimes.

Through this framework of economic cooperation and, more importantly, petrodollar recycling, the U.S. managed to influence Saudi Arabia to persuade the other members of Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) to standardize the sale of oil in dollars. In return for invoicing oil in dollar denominations, Saudi Arabia and other Arab states secured U.S. influence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict along with U.S. military assistance during an increasingly worrisome political climate that saw the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the fall of the Iranian Shah and the Iran-Iraq War. Out of this mutually beneficial agreement, the petrodollar system was born.

The petrodollar system elevated the U.S. dollar to the world's reserve currency and, through this status, the United States enjoys persistent trade deficits and is a global economic hegemony. The petrodollar system also provides the United States’ financial markets with a source of liquidity and foreign capital inflows through petrodollar "recycling." However, an explanation of the effects of petrodollars on the U.S. dollar requires a brief synopsis of the history of the petrodollar.

Well, as I puzzle through this - the US needs the petrodollar to keep its dollar value afloat. As long as other countries need US dollars to buy global oil, they will willingly buy US bonds and accept US dollars in exchange for goods. That keeps the dollar at high value.

I think the agreement between the US and SA (with SA bringing OPEC along) all held together as long as SA was a top, cheap producer. SA could use its ability to capture market share, to bludgeon the others into accepting and keeping the petrodollar. The threat of being punished by the SA oil juggernaut kept other OPEC countries from defecting.

"It's a great life if you don't weaken." But the end was foretold in the initial conditions. SA has weakened. Its fields are played out and expensive to extract. Others with newer, more pristine fields can be poised to write their own rules.

So the US has to enforce the petrodollar with its military, by destroying other oil producers' capacity.

That makes sense.

Now, how to write the City of London into this.

1KIKI

Monday, June 24, 2019 4:42 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
"You can't do a damn thing about war and you know it."

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
You can't even quote YOURSELF correctly. How stupid is that?

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
It wasn't SUPPOSED to be a direct quote, you dumb ass.

You mean you can't defend your original argument, so you have to change it? How stupid is that?

BTW, this is your original and very stupid argument for why you don't track a candidate's position on war:

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
I don't really look at a candidate's ideas about war because **IF** war happens nothing I say or do will matter a damn.

So, you don't care **IF** a candidate wants to start wars? You know, so you can avoid having to mutely endure those wars once they start?

Do you not know what 'planning ahead' means?

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

WISHIMAY

Monday, June 24, 2019 7:53 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno, secretly prowar but too much of a coward to take a position.

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU AND THE PEOPLE YOU KNOW THAT YOU KNOW PEOPLE WHO ARE "PRO-WAR"?????

Seriously, even the nuttiest gun nuts here wouldn't be pro-war unless we were the victims of a large scale attack FIRST. Americans are inherently narcissists, most other countries don't even fucking REGISTER on their tiny little brainz.

15+ years this place has been here and you still don't have a single iota how people ACTUALLY work. We can't take care of the people and infrastructure WE HAVE, we definitely aren't starting wars for expansion purposes and even the dumbest here know you go starting something with someone you pay the price with a generation of kids...

You are just a nutjob. Nothing you have ever said makes a whiff of goddamned sense.

WISHIMAY

Monday, June 24, 2019 8:07 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
You mean you can't defend your original argument, so you have to change it? How stupid is that?

Do you not know what 'planning ahead' means?

I boiled my position down so that even YOU could get it. *Facepalm. Well, I was proven wrong about something today...

You idiots keep thinking you can avoid wars based on candidates positions in PEACETIME??? How stupid do you have to be to not understand that people's reactions to aggressors are incalculable????

NO ONE knows how they will react to ANYTHING, let alone large scale violence and terrorism.

There is not a single candidate who would NOT recommend retaliatory action. Even if they SAY they probably wouldn't- THEY PROBABLY WOULD....Because....PEOPLE.

You two are just pointless harpies, emotionally masturbating to the word WAR so you can feel important.

1KIKI

Monday, June 24, 2019 8:16 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
we definitely aren't starting wars

What do you call Afghanistan, a place that had nothing to do with 9/11? What do you call Iraq, a place that didn't pose a threat to us at all, let alone attack us 'first'. What do you call Libya? Or Syria?

We don't start wars?

I'll make a deal with you - if you stop posting really stupid things, I'll stop pointing out how stupid you are.

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

1KIKI

Monday, June 24, 2019 8:19 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
I boiled my position down so that even YOU could get it.

No, you CHANGED your position because your original one was so stupid even you couldn't defend it. Here it is, again, to refresh your memory.

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
I don't really look at a candidate's ideas about war because **IF** war happens nothing I say or do will matter a damn.

And you have yet to either defend or explain yourself about THAT statement.

So, you don't care **IF** a candidate wants to start wars? You know, so you can avoid having to mutely endure those wars once they start?

Do you not know what 'planning ahead' means?

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

SIGNYM

Monday, June 24, 2019 1:31 PM (P)

Quote:
I boiled my position down so that even YOU could get it.

Hmm... maybe your "position" is so stupid NOBODY "gets it".

Quote:
You idiots keep thinking you can avoid wars based on candidates positions in PEACETIME???

Wait! Wha..?
You think we're in PEACETIME?? Jimminy crimminy, TWIITCHY, how stupid do YOU have to be not to notice the multiple wars THAT WE STARTED and which are STILL CONTINUING TODAY.

Quote:
How stupid do you have to be to not understand that people's reactions to aggressors are incalculable????

Wait! Wha..???
You think we're reacting for aggressors??? How stupid do YOU have to be not to notice that NONE of the wars had anything to do with aggression against the USA? Au contraire my stupid friend! ALL of our wars were pre-planned BY US. Didn't you notice the propaganda campaigns, helpfully planted by the deep state months ahead of time to get idiots like you "on side" BEFORE the invasion?

Jezus Christos. You live in upside-down world, where aggressors are victims and victims are aggressors. No wonder you're so confused!

Quote:
NO ONE knows how they will react to ANYTHING, let alone large scale violence and terrorism.

Jeez, TWITCHY. When was the last large-scale violence and terrorism committed against the USA? 18 years ago? And you think we're still destroying nations around the world because THAT'S the problem? I guess youn really DO live with your head up your butt!

Quote:
There is not a single candidate who would NOT recommend retaliatory action. Even if they SAY they probably wouldn't- THEY PROBABLY WOULD....Because....PEOPLE.

Well, you see TWItCHY, there is YOUR problem: You see attacks when none exist.

Quote:
You two are just pointless harpies, emotionally masturbating to the word WAR so you can feel important.

Huh. Says the person who attacks people for no reason whatsoever.

TWITCHY, you're damaged goods. I suggest that you get some counseling and take care of that emotional problem because it's ruining your life, and your intellect.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

WISHIMAY

Tuesday, June 25, 2019 12:14 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

What do you call Afghanistan, a place that had nothing to do with 9/11? What do you call Iraq, a place that didn't pose a threat to us at all, let alone attack us 'first'. What do you call Libya? Or Syria?

Thank you for making my point AGAIN. We the people didn't do those, politicians did. Many of them...And you CAN'T KNOW OR DO ANYTHING ABOUT THEIR CHOICES...and they may have reasons and intel we don't know and probably won't. Either way, NOTHING YOU DO WILL CHANGE THAT.

Especially blabbing about it constantly in a dead fansite. I mean, that'll show 'em

WISHIMAY

Tuesday, June 25, 2019 12:24 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You idiots keep thinking you can avoid wars based on candidates positions in PEACETIME??? Wait! Wha..?

Oh, sure... we're technically "at war"

but it's mainly so we can keep surveillance on people who need to be surveilled. You all act like the Middle East is just misunderstood peaceful folk. Got yer heads up yer asses much?

1KIKI

Tuesday, June 25, 2019 12:36 AM (P)

So, are you now disavowing your claim that ...

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
we definitely aren't starting wars

?

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, June 25, 2019 6:19 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Trump was pretty clear when he was campaigning that Iran was the exception to his non-interventionist policy. (Not that Trump has made much success of troop withdrawal and non-intervention anyway.) Even Michael Flynn was pretty hot against Iran. Flynn was also pro-Erdogan.

Russia isn't really keen on a mideast conflagration. I keep reading that Russia and Iran have very different ideas on what they want the Mideast to look like, and Iran has in reality made good progress in completing the Shia Crescent by supporting Iraq, Syria, and Hezbollah in Lebanon. So there is good reason to try and thwart Iran's ambitions, and the current leaders of Iran may be just Trump-like enough to use "maximum pressure" themselves against Trump. Which, again, makes it all the more strange that Trump backed down.

I think what Russia has proposed to Iran is that they'll get around the sanctions by facilitating Iran's oil trade with Russia and with China, in an oil-for-goods deal that will blunt the sanctions worst effects. I don't know if that's good enough for Iran, or if the Iranian leadership really wants to bloody Trump's nose.
I have yet to hear a single reason for why getting into a war with Iran is a good idea, or necessary. For why? I have not heard a single good idea, not even a bad idea - no motivation for it. Did Bolton have an Iranian neighbor that played their music too loud? "We need the oil." Nothing, not a single reason, not even a decent lie.
Let us know if you have a guess.

This is a pretty good question. And it's been on the tip of my tongue for a while now. Not because I didn't think of a reason, but because I haven't heard my reason stated out loud - and for that reason I somewhat dismissed the question.

As I understand it, USA does not need the oil anymore, right? US is a petroleum supplier, right? We produce more petroleum than we consume, and we export the rest. Please correct me if I am incorrect here.

WE are no longer making any effort to solve middle East conflicts, to spur Middle East Peace, right? Although Bush 41 & 43 made inroads and progress, Obama and Clinton managed to destroy all progress, and instigate/support Terrorists, such that we cannot hope to do much until some settling and stability occur, correct? So our goals with Iran are not exactly about bringing incipient Middle East Peace.

Which brings us to the instability that the Terrorist Nation of Iran brings to the region. What other force in the region is more destabilizing than Iran?

I'm not thinking of another reason to be dealing with Iran at this point, other than to correct the disaster that Obama and Hilliary caused with Iran.

But because I have not heard much about this voiced or written by the Administration, I cannot know if they have the same viewpoint, or a similar or opposing one.

At this point, I am sidestepping the petrodollar argument, to see if there is at least a pretext of a reason, depending upon your level of cynicism.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, June 25, 2019 6:32 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Second. You are rich. YOU are the enemy of the people.

You had better start building that panic room and digging that moat for your castle.

Things aren't getting any better and there are no indicators that show the only way for everybody to go is down.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
I am opposed to Trump's Iran War schemes because he is cowardly, ridiculous, and dithering.

6ix, I know all about the poor getting poorer and the Trumps getting richer, and I oppose everything Trump and the GOP are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States

Quote:

Looks like these charts show how Clinton & Obamination were all about the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer.
I'll refer to these graphs using this number Legend:
1 2
3 4

Graph 1 shows that from 1992 to 2001, Slick Willie was able to invert the relationship of the poor (taking away) and rich (giving to). Graphs 2, 3, and 4 further show how Slick really shafted the middle and lower classes.

They all show that, although the Rock-The-Vote Democraps stuck it to the Rich for a bit, Obama went to work getting it all back to the rich, and more = while taking from the poor and middle class.

The Bush 43 period shows in all 4 graphs that the poor did not suffer nearly as much as when they get shafted by Slick and Obamination.

But graphs 1 and 2 help illuminate an interesting perspective on history. Back around 1980, with the disastrous Carter economy, runaway inflation and unemployment, it would have been a neat solution to trick the wealthy into investing into working ventures to spur the economy. If only they could be tricked!! Sure, they would need to pay more in Taxes, but they could reap some more income as well.
These 2 chart do demonstrate that this was indeed the trick that was employed. If folk from 1980 could have known they could pull this trick and spur the juggernaut of economic expansion (now called Reaganomics), they would have jumped at the chance! It is just a trick!

But now, in retrospect, the Libtards and malcontents look back at this cool trick to turn the country around, and they only see bad things.
Amazing, how deluded the Libtard masses can be.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, June 25, 2019 6:53 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
College in America for a majority of the kids who go there is just a way to enslave them to the system for the rest of their lives.

Funny how college debt is one of the few debts that don't get erased in a bankruptcy, innit?

Do Right, Be Right. :)
I for one am glad I went to college. But my degree(s) were in something useful which got me a good job, and I lived like a pauper rather than take on debt.

I've read that roughly a third of college students are food and housing insecure.

When I went to college, local landlords charged EXORBITANT rents because they knew they had a captive market. Which is why there was that truism of college students living in living rooms, porches, and unfinished attics and basements. Do they not do that anymore? There's also that portrayal of starving students eating Raman endlessly. In my day, a crap ton of powdered milk with a little bit of sugar mixed into whole milk was a (fairly) nutritious cheap meal for the whole day. Do students not know how to feed themselves for cheap anymore?

I'd very much like to look into the nit-picky specific details of student poverty today, and student debt today. I wonder how much is due to assumptions being made about luxuries being treated as necessities. Because people I've seen who go to college seem to expect a lifestyle that includes single-bedroom apartments, nice cars, I-phones, and a good supply of new clothes.

Because that is the way it is portrayed on TV, by actors who dropped out of high school.
You cannot really expect the kids of today to know how to feed themselves, can you? Where do you think is the app for that? I'm not even sure the kids of helicopter parents had a clue how to live in the real world.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, June 25, 2019 6:54 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
I have always been glad that hubbs left the service before he would've been sent overseas.
Didn't stick it out.
Quote:
He tried to go for a degree in Criminal Justice and hated it
It was too hard.
Quote:
and there was some weird snafu with paperwork
He got disorganized and confused.
Quote:
so he ended up going for a tech degree.
He spent money on something he didn't pursue.
Quote:
I think he would have washed out of police work after a while
They would have kicked him out.
Quote:
He wanted to drive trains, but you don't make enough to support a family on that here, and with the "sitting down narcolepsy" ( can no longer drive for more than an hour at a time without passing out) he has we are ALL much better off that he didn't...
They might not have accepted him.

Quote:
I wanted to be a surgical tech
I never even tried because I was too much of a slacker and probably would have failed..
Quote:
That, and the focusing that hard for hours on end. I could have in high school, but these days I drift too much...
Because I have no discipline.
Quote:
I'm really glad that I didn't go for college
I probably would have failed.
Quote:
and change careers three times like the rest of my family...
I have no career at all. Or even a job.
Quote:
that are in debt up to their eyeballs and will be until the day they die...
As are we, but at least I don't have a job to go with the debt.
Quote:
Nice how you really have no control how your life ends up where it does, isn't it?
Yes, that's how I explain to myself how I ended up here.

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

Fired For Effect. All on target.

WISHIMAY

Tuesday, June 25, 2019 8:48 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Fired For Effect. All on target.

I can't imagine you were ever ACTUALLY in the military...You are a fucking coward.
Don't mind coming in and reposting other people's shit because you are too stupid to come up with anything on your own.

You would have been shot by your own platoon

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, June 25, 2019 9:06 AM (P)

Thankfully, the military does psych evaluations to keep people like Nilbog out of it so you're not concerned about friendly fire for saying something that hurt somebodies feels.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Tuesday, June 25, 2019 9:02 PM (P)

Quote:
https://www.facebook.com/NationandStatedotcom/posts/2390674057645599 (original source - multiple websites reprinted the article)

As We Face Armageddon, Paul Craig Roberts Warns The Western World Is Leaderless

According to news reports, the validity of which cannot be ascertained by the general public, a crazed US government came within 10 minutes of igniting a general conflagration in the Middle East, the consequences of which could have been catastrophic for all.

The moronic warmongers in high office - Bolton, Pompeo, and Pence - and their Israel Lobby masters are determined, and they have not abandoned their campaign for war with Iran.

The upcoming war on Iran has got to be one of the world's worst-kept secrets. It's publicly been on Bolton's, Pompeo's, and Pence's - AND Trump's - agenda for years, in some cases decades.

Quote:
Of course, the liars say that Iran will just accept its punishment for defending its territory and there will be no war. But this is not what Iran says. I believe Iran.

Some of the tiny percentage of people in the Western World who are still capable of thought regret that Trump called off the insane plan. They think the consequences would have been the destruction of the Saudi and Israeli governments—two of the most evil in history—and the cut-off of oil to the US and Europe, with the resulting depression causing the overthrow of the Western warmonger governments. They believe that catastrophic American defeat is the only way peace can be restored to the world.

In other words, it is not clear whether Trump calling off the attack saved us or doomed us. The Israel Lobby and their neoconservative agents have not been taught a lesson. Trump has not fired Bolton and Pompeo for almost igniting a conflagration, and he has not dressed down his moronic vice president. So, it can all happen again.

And likely will. The lesson that Bolton and Israel have learned is that the fake news about an Iranian attack on a Japanese freighter, denied by the Japanese ...

How many people here know that the captain of the Japanese oil tanker said it was a drone attack, and was not a mine?

Quote:
... was not sufficient to lock Trump into “saving face” by attacking Iran. So be prepared for a larger orchestrated provocation. Bolton and Israel know that the Western presstitutes will lie for them. Watch for a provocation that allows Trump no alternative to an attack.

Washington’s use of fake news and false flag attacks to launch military attacks goes back a long way.

Or even not so far back.

Quote:
In the 21st century we have had a concentrated dose — Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction, Assad’s use of chemical weapons, Iranian nukes, Russian invasions, Maduro starving his own people, the endless lies about Gaddafi. Yes, I know there are more. I am writing an article, not an encyclopedia.

Washington has grown accustomed to attacking countries on false pretenses and getting away with it.

Starting with Kosovo BTW.

Quote:
Therefore, there is nothing to discourage the Israel Lobby and its Washington puppets from continuing to set-up Iran for an attack. Success breeds incaution. The attack on Iraq was stage-managed by a credible US Secretary of State before the UN. The attack on Libya was stage-managed by a UN resolution that a deceived Russia and China failed to block. In situations such as these, Washington arranged a green light for its war crimes. However, Washington has failed to stage-manage a green light for an attack on Iran.

The Europeans have gotten wary of US 'intelligence' claims. I'd say "it's about time", but they can scrape up enough belief if it suits their purposes.

Quote:
Moreover, Iran is a more powerful military force than Iraq and Libya, and the extent of the depth of Russian and Chinese support for Iran is unknown to Washington.

If Israel succeeds in having its Washington puppet attack Iran, Israel and its neoconservative agents

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Wednesday, June 26, 2019 6:53 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Fired For Effect. All on target.
I can't imagine you were ever ACTUALLY in the military...You are a fucking coward.
Don't mind coming in and reposting other people's shit because you are too stupid to come up with anything on your own.
You would have been shot by your own platoon

I seriously doubt that anybody in your pretend military family has any clue what that term even means.

Plus, you have certainly confused "cowardice" with dreadful discourse with the Waste of Time Misery Queen of Nilbog.

SECOND

Friday, June 28, 2019 5:49 PM (P)

President Donald Trump arrived at a gathering of world leaders Thursday searching for support for a new deal to curtail an increasingly aggressive Iran. He’s not likely to find any.

Not only do other countries still support a 2015 nuclear pact, they’re skeptical Trump can strike a better agreement within the time constraints of his fast-approaching reelection campaign, especially after Iran recently proclaimed the end of diplomacy with the U.S.

“I think they want to negotiate,” Trump said on “Meet the Press” Sunday. “And I think they want to make a deal. And my deal is nuclear.”

The subtle shift in his language has stunned analysts and former officials, who say he’s signaling that he wants a deal that closely mirrors the 2015 agreement he spent years attacking. He also said this week that he would negotiate with Iran with no preconditions.

Trump’s recent rhetoric stands in contrast to his more hawkish aides, including Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and national security adviser John Bolton, who continue to focus on a list of 12 far-reaching demands for Iran that address nuclear weapons but also ballistic missiles and terrorism. Critics have said that Iran would have to change regimes to meet the demands.

Tom Bossert, who served as Trump’s homeland security adviser until last year, said sanctions are the president’s tool of choice. But, he noted, Trump’s Iranian sanctions are intended to convey the message that he wants to talk — even if no one else does. “He’s imposing sanctions for a broader purpose,” Bossert said.

So far, though, it hasn’t achieved that purpose. And critics fear it could mean war, even if it’s inadvertent.

www.politico.com/story/2019/06/27/trump-iran-nuclear-deal-1385148

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, June 28, 2019 8:10 PM (P)

Compared to Bronk O'Bama, Trump's handling of Iran is magnificent.

a) O'Bama lifted the sanctions that were effectively isolating and strangling Iran.

b) O'Bama sent a ship with $150 Billion in cash loaded on pallets to them.

c} O'Bama sent weak-ass Ketchup-heiress gigolo John Kerry to negotiate for him.

d) O'Bama tried to keep the details of his disastrous Iran deal a secret.

In contrast to all of the above, Trump has been transparent about his strategy. He put the sanctions back on Iran. He hasn't given them one damn penny. And he's made it clear that although he doesn't want armed conflict, he's willing to do just that if necessary. That's what a President should do... be a strong leader. What O'Bama did was typical libtard limp-wristed appeasement.

SECOND

Friday, June 28, 2019 10:56 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

b) O'Bama sent a ship with $150 Billion in cash loaded on pallets to them.

In contrast to all of the above, Trump has been transparent about his strategy. He put the sanctions back on Iran. He hasn't given them one damn penny. And he's made it clear that although he doesn't want armed conflict, he's willing to do just that if necessary. That's what a President should do... be a strong leader. What O'Bama did was typical libtard limp-wristed appeasement.

Trump pulled those numbers out of his fat ass. Obama Didn’t Give Iran ‘150 Billion in Cash’. For one, it was Iran's money that the USA was trying to steal from Iran. And for another, it was $50 billion in electronic depots, not $150 billion cash. And for a third, it wasn't even money electronically deposited in the US Treasury. The US had been threatening revenge against banks (both foreign and domestic) if they gave Iran's money back to Iran. Some of Iran's money had been stolen by the Shah of Iran, America's puppet Iranian dictator, from his own nation by depositing it in foreign banks. Some of the money had been stolen by the US government when it didn't deliver equipment that had already been paid for by Iran, back when the Shah of Iran was alive. Too, too bad for the Shah that he didn't get to spend what he stole before he died of cancer, but that was only because the Shah's diagnosis of chronic lymphocytic leukemia would not be revealed to him until 1978. Medical reports given to the Shah were falsified and altered in order to state that the Shah was in good health to conceal his cancer from him.

www.factcheck.org/2019/03/obama-didnt-give-iran-150-billion-in-cash/
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/apr/27/donald-trump/d
onald-trump-iran-150-billion-and-18-billion-c/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, June 29, 2019 2:30 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Compared to Bronk O'Bama, Trump's handling of Iran is magnificent.

a) O'Bama lifted the sanctions that were effectively isolating and strangling Iran.

b) O'Bama sent a ship with $150 Billion in cash loaded on pallets to them.

I believe that was a plane, not ship.
Quote:
c} O'Bama sent weak-ass Ketchup-heiress gigolo John Kerry to negotiate for him.
Secretary Swiftboat Ketchup - how could Iran keep from giggling at him?

Quote:
d) O'Bama tried to keep the details of his disastrous Iran deal a secret.

In contrast to all of the above, Trump has been transparent about his strategy. He put the sanctions back on Iran. He hasn't given them one damn penny. And he's made it clear that although he doesn't want armed conflict, he's willing to do just that if necessary. That's what a President should do... be a strong leader. What O'Bama did was typical libtard limp-wristed appeasement.

SECOND

Saturday, June 29, 2019 4:55 AM (P)

An amendment requiring President Donald Trump to get congressional approval before launching military strikes against Iran needed 60 votes. The measure is a top priority and serious issue for Democrats who pressed GOP leaders to schedule the vote.

At 5:00 a.m. Friday, with the moon still beaming over Washington, the Capitol buzzed with activity.

Democrats got 50 votes for their amendment, but it needed 60 to pass. Forty Republicans voted no. Ten had already flown home for the 4th of July Holiday.

www.cnn.com/2019/06/28/politics/iran-amendment-senate-republicans/inde
x.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Saturday, June 29, 2019 5:29 PM (P)

Iranian leaders shun Trump's ‘chalice of poison’

There’s a painful remembrance in Iran about how broken it felt in 1988, when pressured to end the Iran-Iraq war. This time, is President Donald Trump’s “maximum pressure” campaign against Iran enough to make the Islamic Republic cry uncle?

Probably not, to judge by the Iran-Iraq war, the most significant climb-down that Tehran has conceded since the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

It was the spring of 1988, and after eight years of ferocious fighting, Iranian troops had reversed Iraq’s invasion and pushed deep into Iraqi territory. Saddam Hussein – supported by the U.S., Soviet Union, and European nations – unleashed one of the war’s heaviest chemical weapon attacks and threatened to gas Iranian cities if Iran did not agree to a cease-fire.

The Iranian military had lost some 60% of its hardware and could barely find new recruits, and the nation’s economy had shriveled. When the United States inadvertently shot down an Iranian airliner over the Persian Gulf, killing all 290 passengers, Tehran took it as a sign that the Americans were willing to do anything to defeat the Islamic Republic.

Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini finally gave in, shocking Iranians as he said, “I drink this chalice of poison.” The human toll had been unprecedented in modern conflict, with 1 million dead and wounded on both sides, in a war that hadn’t even changed the border, just soaked it in blood.

“The television was showing our soldiers and he kept hitting himself with his fists saying ‘aah,’” Mr. Khomeini’s eldest son later recalled of his father’s reaction. “After accepting the cease-fire, he could no longer walk. ... He never again spoke in public.”

Legacy of language

Ever since, in Iran, “drinking from the chalice of poison” has been a metaphor for caving in under pressure – the sort of pressure that Tehran feels today from the Trump administration.

Iranian officials are loath to be seen surrendering under such conditions; they vow to resist U.S. demands; and they swear, as Iran’s supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei recently declared – that “as long as the U.S. is what it is today, dialogue will be poison, and with this administration the poison will be even twice as deadly.”

More at www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2019/0628/Iranian-leaders-shun-cha
lice-of-poison

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Saturday, July 13, 2019 5:07 AM (P)

HOUSE SAYS TRUMP CAN’T GO TO WAR WITH IRAN UNLESS CONGRESS APPROVES

Democrats in the House of Representatives on Friday passed an amendment that would sharply restrict President Donald Trump’s ability to attack Iran without congressional authorization, attaching the language to an annual must-pass defense bill.

The measure, which was sponsored by California Democrat Ro Khanna and Florida Republican Matthew Gaetz, would prohibit the Pentagon from spending money on any military action against Iran unless Congress has declared war or passed a resolution authorizing the administration to use force. The bill contains an exception for emergency situations in which U.S. armed forces are under attack.

The measure is likely to face resistance from Senate Republicans, who are expected to fight to strip it out when the House and Senate versions of the bill are reconciled. A similar measure introduced by Democratic Sens. Tom Udall of New Mexico and Virginia’s Tim Kaine and Republicans Mike Lee of Utah and Rand Paul of Kentucky failed to pass the Senate last month despite garnering 50 votes in favor and only 40 against. Due to parliamentary maneuvering by Senate Leader Mitch McConnell, it needed 60 votes to pass.

https://theintercept.com/2019/07/12/trump-iran-vote-congress/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Tuesday, September 17, 2019 9:22 PM (P)

Here is an exceptionally good article about the attack on the Saudi's main crude stabilization facility, I especially appreciated the detailed photos. You will have to go the article itself to get higher resolution.

Saturday's attack on the Saudi oil and gas processing station in Abqaiq hit its stabilization facility:

Quote:
The stabilization process is a form of partial distillation which sweetens "sour" crude oil (removes the hydrogen sulfide) and reduces vapor pressure, thereby making the crude oil safe for shipment in tankers. Stabilizers maximize production of valuable hydrocarbon liquids, while making the liquids safe for storage and transport, as well as reduce the atmospheric emissions of volatile hydrocarbons. Stabilizer plants are used to reduce the volatility of stored crude oil and condensate.

Soon after the attack U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo went into full 'blame Iran' mode:

Secretary Pompeo @SecPompeo - 21:59 UTC · Sep 14, 2019
Tehran is behind nearly 100 attacks on Saudi Arabia while Rouhani and Zarif pretend to engage in diplomacy. Amid all the calls for de-escalation, Iran has now launched an unprecedented attack on the world’s energy supply. There is no evidence the attacks came from Yemen.
We call on all nations to publicly and unequivocally condemn Iran’s attacks. The United States will work with our partners and allies to ensure that energy markets remain well supplied and Iran is held accountable for its aggression

Abqaiq lies at the heart of the Saudi oil infrastructure. It processes more than half of the Saudi oil output.

bigger

The U.S. government published two detailed pictures of the attack's result.

bigger

bigger

The pictures show some 17 points of impact. There are cars visible in the second more detailed picture that demonstrate the gigantic size of the place. The targets were carefully selected. At least 11 of those were egg shaped tanks with a diameter of some 30 meter (100 foot). These are likely tanks for pressurized (liquidized) gas that receive the condensate vapor from the stabilization process. They all have now quite neat holes in their upper shells.

The piping to and from the egg shaped tanks shows that these were configured in groups with double redundancy. Two tanks beside each other share one piping system. Two of such twin tanks are next to each other with lines to their processing train. There are a total of three such groups. Damage to any one tank or group would not stop the production process. The products would be routed to another similar tank or group. But with all tanks of this one special type taken out the production chain is now interrupted.

Two processing areas were hit and show fire damage. At least the control equipment of both was likely completely destroyed:

Consultancy Rapidan Energy Group said images of the Abqaiq facility after the attack showed about five of its stabilization towers appeared to have been destroyed, and would take months to rebuild - something that could curtail output for a prolonged period.

“However Saudi Aramco keeps some redundancy in the system to maintain production during maintenance,” Rapidan added, meaning operations could return to pre-attack levels sooner.

The targeting for this attack was done with detailed knowledge of the process and its dependencies.

The north arrow in those pictures points to the left. The visible shadows confirm the direction. The holes in the tanks are on the western side. They were attacked from the west.

The hits were extremely precise. The Yemeni armed forces claimed it attacked the facility with 10 drones (or cruise missiles). But the hits on these targets look like neither. A total of 17 hits with such precise targeting lets me assume that these were some kind of drones or missiles with man-in-the-loop control. They may

SIGNYM

Tuesday, September 17, 2019 9:40 PM (P)

So, given the number of "false flags" the USA has initiated or taken advantage of, when things like this happen I have to ask cui bono?

Probably not the Saudis, because altho oil prices have jumped, they can't take advantage of that. But any other oil-producing nation would, especially if they produced EXPENSIVE oil. That would be fracked oil (USA) and tar sands (Canada). But would also include UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain, Russia, Venezuela, Brazil and Iran.

Of course "Bibi" Netanyahu would benefit, as do war hawks in the USA. It seems like every time peace threatens to break out anywhere, "something" happens. (Trump was to meet with Rouhani at the UN)

Do the Houthis benefit? Probably, but it's hard to see how, since they were winning ayway (The Saudi's main partner UAE has diverged from Saudi strategy and is now fighting Saudi-backed forces) and rather than driving KSA to the bargaining table it may simply cause further reaction. OTOH if it looked like Iran was about to make peace without taking Yemen into account, the Houthis might have wanted to derail any potential peace process.Apparently I'm not the only one wondering about this

Quote:
Questions, Not Answers, Surround U.S. Push To War With Iran
Authored by Tom Luongo [NOT TYLER DURDEN],

When President Trump fired National Security Adviser John Bolton last week rational people the world over cheered.

When there was news that Trump would meet on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly in a few weeks there were sighs of relief.

When Benjamin Netanyahu goes to Moscow to get Vladimir Putin’s blessing to continue airstrikes in Syria was told no, the world said, “Finally! Enough is enough.”

The problem is that there were also very powerful people who were not happy about these things.

Moreover, there are a lot of nervous people out there worried that Tuesday’s election in Israel will not go the way they want it.

A lot of people have invested a lot of time and money in ensuring Netanyahu stays in power. And I don’t just mean Bibi himself, who will likely go to jail on corruption charges if he doesn’t win.

I mean a lot of people in the U.S., Saudi Arabia, the U.K. and in Europe, all of the places where anti-Russian, anti-Iranian and pro-Israeli sentiments abound.

And this brings up the main question I always have in the wake of one of these major escalations of tensions with the country currently catching the Twin Eyes of Sauron in D.C. and Tel Aviv.

Why do they always seem to occur right after moments of de-escalation and there’s the threat of peace breaking out somewhere?

Why is it that every time President Trump tries to push the U.S. and the world away from war within a few days there’s an incident which pushes us right back to the brink of it?

Trump visits Kim Jong-un in North Korea, making history, there are attacks on UAE oil tankers. Trump refuses to attack Iran over them shooting down a Global Hawk drone in Iranian airspace escorted by a fully-crewed Poseiden P-8.

Britain seizes the Grace 1 oil tanker. Israel attacks Shi’ite Militia targets outside of Baghdad.

Go back to President Trump first, and biggest, geopolitical blunder. The Syrian Army wins a major battle and is on the verge of victory, and a chemical weapons attack happens deep in Al-Qaeda controlled territory blamed on the SAA.

Trump then launches 57 tomahawks at the Al-Shairat airbase.

Trump declares we’re pulling out of Syria, Israel openly bombs targets deep in Syria. His staff, including John Bolton, freak out and walk it back.

The Houthis send a couple of drones at an Aramco facility far beyond their known capabilities and the UAE pulls out of the Saudi coalition in Yemen.

Moscow has had its fill of Netanyahu. He’s openly mocking Trump at international forums, first offering to sell the U.S. Russia’s hypersonic missiles at the G-20 and then offering to sell S-400 missile defense systems to the Saudis to protect their people from outside actors.

All with tongue firmly implanted

CAPTAINCRUNCH

Tuesday, September 17, 2019 9:45 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Here is an exceptionally good article about the attack on the Saudi's main crude stabilization facility, I especially appreciated the detailed photos. You will have to go the article itself to get higher resolution.

Saturday's attack on the Saudi oil and gas processing station in Abqaiq hit its stabilization facility:

Quote:
The stabilization process is a form of partial distillation which sweetens "sour" crude oil (removes the hydrogen sulfide) and reduces vapor pressure, thereby making the crude oil safe for shipment in tankers. Stabilizers maximize production of valuable hydrocarbon liquids, while making the liquids safe for storage and transport, as well as reduce the atmospheric emissions of volatile hydrocarbons. Stabilizer plants are used to reduce the volatility of stored crude oil and condensate.

Soon after the attack U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo went into full 'blame Iran' mode:

Secretary Pompeo @SecPompeo - 21:59 UTC · Sep 14, 2019
Tehran is behind nearly 100 attacks on Saudi Arabia while Rouhani and Zarif pretend to engage in diplomacy. Amid all the calls for de-escalation, Iran has now launched an unprecedented attack on the world’s energy supply. There is no evidence the attacks came from Yemen.
We call on all nations to publicly and unequivocally condemn Iran’s attacks. The United States will work with our partners and allies to ensure that energy markets remain well supplied and Iran is held accountable for its aggression

Abqaiq lies at the heart of the Saudi oil infrastructure. It processes more than half of the Saudi oil output.

bigger

The U.S. government published two detailed pictures of the attack's result.

bigger

bigger

The pictures show some 17 points of impact. There are cars visible in the second more detailed picture that demonstrate the gigantic size of the place. The targets were carefully selected. At least 11 of those were egg shaped tanks with a diameter of some 30 meter (100 foot). These are likely tanks for pressurized (liquidized) gas that receive the condensate vapor from the stabilization process. They all have now quite neat holes in their upper shells.

The piping to and from the egg shaped tanks shows that these were configured in groups with double redundancy. Two tanks beside each other share one piping system. Two of such twin tanks are next to each other with lines to their processing train. There are a total of three such groups. Damage to any one tank or group would not stop the production process. The products would be routed to another similar tank or group. But with all tanks of this one special type taken out the production chain is now interrupted.

Two processing areas were hit and show fire damage. At least the control equipment of both was likely completely destroyed:

Consultancy Rapidan Energy Group said images of the Abqaiq facility after the attack showed about five of its stabilization towers appeared to have been destroyed, and would take months to rebuild - something that could curtail output for a prolonged period.

“However Saudi Aramco keeps some redundancy in the system to maintain production during maintenance,” Rapidan added, meaning operations could return to pre-attack levels sooner.

The targeting for this attack was done with detailed knowledge of the process and its dependencies.

The north arrow in those pictures points to the left. The visible shadows confirm the direction. The holes in the tanks are on the western side. They were attacked from the west.

The hits were extremely precise. The Yemeni armed forces claimed it attacked the facility with 10 drones (or cruise missiles). But the hits on these targets look like neither. A total of 17 hits with such precise targeting lets me assume that these were some kind of drones or missile

OLDGUY

Tuesday, September 17, 2019 10:47 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
PNAC?
Javanka?

that there's what ya call "techno speech" lil buckaroo....let's you know that the OP has just a wealth of knowledge about the subject..therefore, take his word as gospel for whatever might follow

OLDGUY

Tuesday, September 17, 2019 11:10 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Trying to wrap my mind around the whole 'petrodollars' thing, because there seem to be several separate points of instability.

Quote:
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/072915/how-petrodollars-af
fect-us-dollar.asp

After the collapse of the Bretton Woods gold standard in the early 1970s, the United States struck a deal with Saudi Arabia to standardize oil prices in dollar terms. Through this deal, the petrodollar system was born, along with a paradigm shift away from pegged exchanged rates and gold-backed currencies to non-backed, floating rate regimes.

Through this framework of economic cooperation and, more importantly, petrodollar recycling, the U.S. managed to influence Saudi Arabia to persuade the other members of Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) to standardize the sale of oil in dollars. In return for invoicing oil in dollar denominations, Saudi Arabia and other Arab states secured U.S. influence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict along with U.S. military assistance during an increasingly worrisome political climate that saw the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the fall of the Iranian Shah and the Iran-Iraq War. Out of this mutually beneficial agreement, the petrodollar system was born.

The petrodollar system elevated the U.S. dollar to the world's reserve currency and, through this status, the United States enjoys persistent trade deficits and is a global economic hegemony. The petrodollar system also provides the United States’ financial markets with a source of liquidity and foreign capital inflows through petrodollar "recycling." However, an explanation of the effects of petrodollars on the U.S. dollar requires a brief synopsis of the history of the petrodollar.

Well, as I puzzle through this - the US needs the petrodollar to keep its dollar value afloat. As long as other countries need US dollars to buy global oil, they will willingly buy US bonds and accept US dollars in exchange for goods. That keeps the dollar at high value

I think the agreement between the US and SA (with SA bringing OPEC along) all held together as long as SA was a top, cheap producer. SA could use its ability to capture market share, to bludgeon the others into accepting and keeping the petrodollar. The threat of being punished by the SA oil juggernaut kept other OPEC countries from defecting.

"It's a great life if you don't weaken." But the end was foretold in the initial conditions. SA has weakened. Its fields are played out and expensive to extract. Others with newer, more pristine fields can be poised to write their own rules.

So the US has to enforce the petrodollar with its military, by destroying other oil producers' capacity.

That makes sense.

Now, how to write the City of London into this.

if you want to truly better understand the petro dollar's value and manipulation, you can start the dig by looking into the window know as the Gore family.. Al Gore Sr. when you see how they played games with our nation through young VP AlGore..you can see how some folks have managed to rape the world, lie to Americans..etc... I first took notice back when he was in the VP chair and had made a podium microphone promise that he was going to go over to the Cartel and pressure them to lower prices..yep..what he didn't mention was that it had been just a short while earlier that, under his momma's direction, there had been quiet price increases..which in part were related to the need for Russia to be able to start repaying some of it's debt to us...and at prices below, I think back then it was $60/bbl, the Russians could not make the profits needed to repay loans that we were on the hook for..and of course our loans mean that we are in debt to other nations like China where our interest rates are cranking hourly....the entire relationship and wealth portfolio, easily spotted by looking at Gore family investments in Occidental, can give you a window glimpse into

JAYNEZTOWN

Friday, January 3, 2020 10:10 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

I don't buy for a second that there'll be any exchange of ordinance w/ Iran.

It's a Kabuki show , on a global sized stage.

Maybe still a show .... events happening inside Iraq borders? Getiing closer to the real thing now
a bunch of Popular Mobilization Forces members killed, the big shot guy killed today Years of service with Iranians ongoing from years 1979–2020

WISHIMAY

Friday, January 3, 2020 10:14 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

I don't buy for a second that there'll be any exchange of ordinance w/ Iran.

It's a Kabuki show , on a global sized stage.

While we're fretting over this big nothing, look for other events to take place. And get totally unnoticed.

Thanks for supporting my thread on distracting us from his quid pro quo emails.

SIGNYM

Friday, January 3, 2020 11:27 PM (P)

The situation in Iraq is very complex. There is a Shiite faction that is very pro-Iran, and a Shiite faction that is anti-Iran, but the one thing they have in common is they both want the USA out. This strike in Iraq is only going to accelerate that push to drive the USA out.

Trump has been diligently building up troop strength in the area. This has been planned for a long time and reflects his long-term grotch against Iran. I was hoping that Trump would make it through his first term without starting any new conflicts but ... no, he just can't keep his fingers out of the Middle East.

Proxy war with Iran in Iraq?

Jeezus.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

1KIKI

Saturday, January 4, 2020 2:03 AM (P)

Trump - I mean Israel - has been jonesing for a conflict with Iran for a long time. Netan-yahoo is mired in electoral politics and corruption charges. Time to do Israel's bidding!

SIGNYM

Saturday, January 4, 2020 5:55 AM (P)

Quote:
Round Two: US Drone Airstrikes Kill Six Pro-Iran Militia Commanders
Profile picture for user Tyler Durden
by Tyler Durden
Fri, 01/03/2020 - 18:49

Whether he is eating ice cream or not, Trump appears to be on a rampage to recreate the end of The Godfather.

Less than 24 hours after a US drone shockingly killed the top Iranian military leader, Qasem Soleimani, resulting in equity markets groaning around the globe in fear over Iranian reprisals (and potentially, World War III), the US has gone for round two with Reuters and various other social media sources reporting that US air strikes targeting Iraq’s Popular Mobilization Units umbrella grouping of Iran-backed Shi’ite militias near camp Taji north of Baghdad, have killed six people and critically wounded three, an Iraqi army source said late on Friday.

Iraqi official media has also confirm that two vehicles were targeted north of Baghdad, carrying commanders of the pro-Iran militias in the PMUs.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/round-two-us-drone-airstrikes-k
ill-six-pro-iran-militia-commanders

Not only will Iran respond, so will Iraq. The only question is: how?

Is anyone aware (besides me) that Iran, China, and Russia just complete a joint naval exercise in the Gulf of Oman?

Now, I'm sure that Russia will respond in a measured fashion. They have, after all, allowed Israeli strikes on Iranian targets in Syria. They tend to parse their responses very carefully, making fine distinctions between their interests in Syria, the Assad government's interests in Syria, and Iran's interests in Syria, and have not been too keen on protecting Iranian forces outside of Iran. So while the have a commitment to protecting Iran from attack, they may not have a great interest in protecting Iran in other nations.

But still ... open assasination of foreign leaders in other nations?? Gee, we get to disrespect/piss off TWO nations at the same time when we do that! This does not benefit Trump one whit, not geopolitically and not electorally.

*****

I think KIKI is right. I think this is all about "Bibi" Netan-yahoo trying to get elected in March (Israel's third attempt to form a government in one year, and B
"Bibi's" best hope for staying out of jail.) Netan-yahoo is more than willing to fight to the last American, and Trump is just stupid enuf to let him do it.

Fuckin' a.

*****

And now we get to watch dems squirm over whether they support these assasinations because they're warhawks, or whether they're against it because ... yanno... Trump. And we get to watch Repubs squirm over whether they're for this because ... yanno ... Trump ... or whether they're against it because they're non-interventionist.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, January 4, 2020 6:16 AM (P)

Today wasn't any different for me than yesterday was.

Tomorrow won't be either.

Going to file this under don't give a shit.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

WISHIMAY

Saturday, January 4, 2020 10:22 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Going to file this under don't give a shit.

Can't give a shit about things you know nothing about...Is THAT why you don't give a shit about anything?

1KIKI

Saturday, January 4, 2020 1:15 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And now we get to watch dems squirm over whether they support these assassinations because they're warhawks, or whether they're against it because ... yanno... Trump. And we get to watch Repubs squirm over whether they're for this because ... yanno ... Trump ... or whether they're against it because they're non-interventionist.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

I think dims will be against it because ... Trump, and republicans will be for it because ... Trump. As far as they're both concerned, they probably couldn't even locate the country on a map.

SIGNYM

Saturday, January 4, 2020 1:52 PM (P)

Quote:
SIX: Going to file this under don't give a shit.

WISHY: Can't give a shit about things you know nothing about..

Well, you don't ive a shit about war. Or the Mideast. Or South/Central America. Or ... well, anyplace outside of your own small life, your own small experience, and your own small imagination. You don't give a shit about anything other than your own hurt feelings. Does that mean you don't KNOW about anything other than that?

Given your displays of massive igorance here, the Magic Eight Ball says As I see it yes.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

SIGNYM

Saturday, January 4, 2020 2:39 PM (P)

So ... what happens next?

First, I want to say that these assasinations have all the hallmarks of a CIA operation. The original drone program - so widely made use of by Obama - was never anything more than a secret assassination program conducted by CIA drones.

Eventually the military (JSOC) was pulled into it, but because of the joint military-CIA involvement, the program is STILL secret.

However, the military (airforce) was involved in the attack on the Syrian/Iraq border https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/29/world/middleeast/us-airstrikes-iran
-iraq-syria.html so as much as I would like to think that this was the deep state going rogue and implementing an attack without Trump's authorization, the fact that the formal military is alos involved tells me that Trump (as Commander in Chief) was fully aware of what was going on.

It's one thing for soldiers to be killed in action, and while the government and the military don't like to sacrifice their own, they are, after all, pawns.
But assassinating one of the top military leaders of Iran, while he was there at Iraq's request to attend the funerals of those killed by our air force, is going too far. This isn't blowing holes in a maintenance airfield or striking an empty science building, this is serious stuff.

There are, I'm sure, intense conversations going on between Iran and Russia, and Iran and China right now.

Since Russia and China seem to be committed to protecting Iran from direct attack, Iran has the leverage: Iran can always launch a direct attack from Iranian soil on US forces in the region, inviting a direct attack on their soil by the USA and drawing Russia into the resulting conflict. I'm sure the Russians (and Chinese) are drawing some very bright and clear lines for Iran about what they will, and won't, support.

But one thing the Russians are very adept at doing is getting even, eventually, and using the momentum of events to their advantage. I can imagine both Iraq and Lebanon getting a full complement of anti-aircraft and anti-missile defenses. Russia, I'm sure, would fully support Iraq kicking USA troops out. And of course something else is bound to happen: possibly economic or financial or military, but I can't imagine what. It may even involve India.

This assassination stinks to high heaven to every nation in the region, especially nations that feel connected to the USA. I'm sure they'll be rethinking their relationship with us.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

SECOND

Saturday, January 4, 2020 5:39 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

It's one thing for soldiers to be killed in action, and while the government and the military don't like to sacrifice their own, they are, after all, pawns.
But assassinating one of the top military leaders of Iran, while he was there at Iraq's request to attend the funerals of those killed by our air force, is going too far. This isn't blowing holes in a maintenance airfield or striking an empty science building, this is serious stuff.

Trump promised before his election to “dismantle the disastrous deal with Iran” and yet you still voted for him.

The six major powers involved in the nuclear talks with Iran were in a group known as the P5+1: the UN security council’s five permanent members – China, France, Russia, the UK and the US – and Germany. The nuclear deal is also enshrined in a UN security council resolution that incorporated it into international law. The 15 members of the council at the time unanimously endorsed the agreement. Yet you still voted for Trump. I think Trump is beginning to make it very clear that his stand against the world could be more than his usual huffing and puffing.

www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/08/iran-nuclear-deal-what-is-it-why
-does-trump-want-to-scrap-it

The top Democrat in the U.S. Senate said on Friday that President Donald Trump does not have the authority to go to war with Iran without congressional authorization. But if the Senate won't remove Trump if he starts a war with Iran, he doesn't need their stinking authorization.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Saturday, January 4, 2020 8:34 PM (P)

Quote:

It's one thing for soldiers to be killed in action, and while the government and the military don't like to sacrifice their own, they are, after all, pawns.
But assassinating one of the top military leaders of Iran, while he was there at Iraq's request to attend the funerals of those killed by our air force, is going too far. This isn't blowing holes in a maintenance airfield or striking an empty science building, this is serious stuff.

SLOPPY: Trump promised before his election to “dismantle the disastrous deal with Iran” and yet you still voted for him.

I also pointed out AT THE TIME that Trump's promise to make nice with Russia and his anti-Iranian stance weren't compatible goals, and that I didn't know how he was going to square that circle.

Besides, look at the alternative: A candidate with an established history of destroying nations (Ukraine, "We came we saw he died" Libya, Yemen. BTW Obama is also responsible for that list of shame) and who wanted a more "kinetic" (missiles, bombs) approach to Syria.

Stop kidding yourself SLOPPY (if at all possible. I know that's difficult because you live your life telling yourself the same lies over and over, mutiple times a day) that Dems were, and are, a better alternative. The only ones making sense right now are Tulsi Gabbard and Rand Paul. One Democrat, one Republican, neither one welcome in their own party.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

SIGNYM

Saturday, January 4, 2020 8:52 PM (P)

Besides, you should be CELEBRATING, SLOPPY! Higher oil prices, woohoo! A premium for your Permian play! Between tax cuts and higher prices you will be having a GREAT New Year, American interests be damned!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

THG

Saturday, January 4, 2020 9:09 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

It's one thing for soldiers to be killed in action, and while the government and the military don't like to sacrifice their own, they are, after all, pawns.
But assassinating one of the top military leaders of Iran, while he was there at Iraq's request to attend the funerals of those killed by our air force, is going too far. This isn't blowing holes in a maintenance airfield or striking an empty science building, this is serious stuff.
Trump promised before his election to “dismantle the disastrous deal with Iran” and yet you still voted for him.

The six major powers involved in the nuclear talks with Iran were in a group known as the P5+1: the UN security council’s five permanent members – China, France, Russia, the UK and the US – and Germany. The nuclear deal is also enshrined in a UN security council resolution that incorporated it into international law. The 15 members of the council at the time unanimously endorsed the agreement. Yet you still voted for Trump. I think Trump is beginning to make it very clear that his stand against the world could be more than his usual huffing and puffing.

www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/08/iran-nuclear-deal-what-is-it-why
-does-trump-want-to-scrap-it

The top Democrat in the U.S. Senate said on Friday that President Donald Trump does not have the authority to go to war with Iran without congressional authorization. But if the Senate won't remove Trump if he starts a war with Iran, he doesn't need their stinking authorization.

Yep, Trumps their guy...Think Iran, nuclear, renewed urgency...

T

Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, January 4, 2020 9:22 PM (P)

Democrat idiot voters are imagining Trump with a PlayStation controller, personally carrying out a drone strike while he's sitting on top of his golden toilet in Trump Towers, with his cell phone resting just a foot away ready to tweet about how we got the bastard.

You guys fucking love war. I would have thought you'd be thrilled by all of this.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Saturday, January 4, 2020 10:02 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Stop kidding yourself SLOPPY (if at all possible. I know that's difficult because you live your life telling yourself the same lies over and over, mutiple times a day) that Dems were, and are, a better alternative. The only ones making sense right now are Tulsi Gabbard and Rand Paul. One Democrat, one Republican, neither one welcome in their own party.

Colonel Muammar Gaddafi destroyed himself. He is in power 42 years, accumulating Libyan enemies, and his solution is to make his son the next ruler. His enemies wouldn't tolerate another 42 years of Gaddafi mismanagement. Hillary didn't kill him, nor Obama. Gaddafi killed himself out of stupidity. Stalin hung in there for 31 years, but if he had stretched it to Gaddafi's 42 years he would have been murdered, too. It is just nature's way of handling loudmouths who think they are irreplaceable to their people.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, January 4, 2020 10:09 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Stop kidding yourself SLOPPY (if at all possible. I know that's difficult because you live your life telling yourself the same lies over and over, mutiple times a day) that Dems were, and are, a better alternative. The only ones making sense right now are Tulsi Gabbard and Rand Paul. One Democrat, one Republican, neither one welcome in their own party.
Colonel Muammar Gaddafi destroyed himself. He is in power 42 years, accumulating Libyan enemies, and his solution is to make his son the next ruler. His enemies wouldn't tolerate another 42 years of Gaddafi mismanagement. Hillary didn't kill him, nor Obama. Gaddafi killed himself out of stupidity. Stalin hung in there for 31 years, but if he had stretched it to Gaddafi's 42 years he would have been murdered, too. It is just nature's way of handling loudmouths who think they are irreplaceable to their people.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Yes... just like Epstien, Gaddafi killed himself.

Gaddafi was a bit more creative with his suicide, however, as he smiled for the cameras and took selfies while using a bayonet as a marital aid.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Saturday, January 4, 2020 10:14 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Stop kidding yourself SLOPPY (if at all possible. I know that's difficult because you live your life telling yourself the same lies over and over, mutiple times a day) that Dems were, and are, a better alternative. The only ones making sense right now are Tulsi Gabbard and Rand Paul. One Democrat, one Republican, neither one welcome in their own party.
Colonel Muammar Gaddafi destroyed himself. He is in power 42 years, accumulating Libyan enemies, and his solution is to make his son the next ruler. His enemies wouldn't tolerate another 42 years of Gaddafi mismanagement. Hillary didn't kill him, nor Obama. Gaddafi killed himself out of stupidity. Stalin hung in there for 31 years, but if he had stretched it to Gaddafi's 42 years he would have been murdered, too. It is just nature's way of handling loudmouths who think they are irreplaceable to their people.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Yes... just like Epstien, Gaddafi killed himself.

Gaddafi was a bit more creative with his suicide, however, as he smiled for the cameras and took selfies while using a bayonet as a marital aid.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Come to think of it, Trump is fat and old. It's likely that nature won't let him complete his third term in office, despite Republican voters believing he is irreplaceable. Same is true for heart attack Bernie and doddering old fool Biden. Nature fixes many political problem personalities. I am sure that Epstein's death fixed somebody's problem, most likely Trump's, since Epstein died in a Federal prison controlled by Trump.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Sunday, January 5, 2020 3:26 AM (P)

Quote:
Stop kidding yourself SLOPPY (if at all possible. I know that's difficult because you live your life telling yourself the same lies over and over, mutiple times a day) that Dems were, and are, a better alternative. The only ones making sense right now are Tulsi Gabbard and Rand Paul. One Democrat, one Republican, neither one welcome in their own party.

SLOPPY; Colonel Muammar Gaddafi destroyed himself. ]

I tell you to stop kidding yourself and what do you do? You kid yourself some more!

Jeezus, SLOPPY, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you post such obvious tripe? Gaddafi destroyed himself??? He "mismanaged" the economy so badly that Libya had the highest standard of living of ANY African nation, with an average of 3000 calories per adult per day, medical care, free housing to newlyweds, and education? And we "improved" it by turning it into a failed-state crawling with jihadists?

Yep! We sure managed Libya quite well, didn't we?

CONFABULATION, it's a real psychiatric diagnosis. It's when people fabricate events and stories to fill in gaps of memory or knowledge. Usually happens with brain damaged people or Alzheimer's. See a doctor, get help.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

1KIKI

Sunday, January 5, 2020 9:01 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Stop kidding yourself SLOPPY (if at all possible.)

... Gaddafi destroyed himself??? He "mismanaged" the economy so badly that Libya had the highest standard of living of ANY African nation, with an average of 3000 calories per adult per day, medical care, free housing to newlyweds, and education? And we "improved" it by turning it into a failed-state crawling with jihadists?

Yep! We sure managed Libya quite well, didn't we?

That specifically was Obama and Hillary who accomplished such a fantastic goal. /snark

- WE - weren't consulted.

But SLOPPY doesn't mind taking credit for dimocrats and that great accomplishment. / snark

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, January 5, 2020 9:08 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Stop kidding yourself SLOPPY (if at all possible. I know that's difficult because you live your life telling yourself the same lies over and over, mutiple times a day) that Dems were, and are, a better alternative. The only ones making sense right now are Tulsi Gabbard and Rand Paul. One Democrat, one Republican, neither one welcome in their own party.
Colonel Muammar Gaddafi destroyed himself. He is in power 42 years, accumulating Libyan enemies, and his solution is to make his son the next ruler. His enemies wouldn't tolerate another 42 years of Gaddafi mismanagement. Hillary didn't kill him, nor Obama. Gaddafi killed himself out of stupidity. Stalin hung in there for 31 years, but if he had stretched it to Gaddafi's 42 years he would have been murdered, too. It is just nature's way of handling loudmouths who think they are irreplaceable to their people.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Yes... just like Epstien, Gaddafi killed himself.

Gaddafi was a bit more creative with his suicide, however, as he smiled for the cameras and took selfies while using a bayonet as a marital aid.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Come to think of it, Trump is fat and old. It's likely that nature won't let him complete his third term in office, despite Republican voters believing he is irreplaceable. Same is true for heart attack Bernie and doddering old fool Biden. Nature fixes many political problem personalities. I am sure that Epstein's death fixed somebody's problem, most likely Trump's, since Epstein died in a Federal prison controlled by Trump.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

He doesn't look a day older than he did when he was elected.

The same can't be said for pretty much any other president who ever lived.

He seems to enjoy his job.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Sunday, January 5, 2020 8:21 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Stop kidding yourself SLOPPY (if at all possible. I know that's difficult because you live your life telling yourself the same lies over and over, mutiple times a day) that Dems were, and are, a better alternative. The only ones making sense right now are Tulsi Gabbard and Rand Paul. One Democrat, one Republican, neither one welcome in their own party.

SLOPPY; Colonel Muammar Gaddafi destroyed himself. ]
I tell you to stop kidding yourself and what do you do? You kid yourself some more!

Jeezus, SLOPPY, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you post such obvious tripe? Gaddafi destroyed himself??? He "mismanaged" the economy so badly that Libya had the highest standard of living of ANY African nation, with an average of 3000 calories per adult per day, medical care, free housing to newlyweds, and education? And we "improved" it by turning it into a failed-state crawling with jihadists?

Yep! We sure managed Libya quite well, didn't we?

CONFABULATION, it's a real psychiatric diagnosis. It's when people fabricate events and stories to fill in gaps of memory or knowledge. Usually happens with brain damaged people or Alzheimer's. See a doctor, get help.

You are very humorous, Signym. So is Trump. I chuckle when I read how he sees the world:

Pentagon Officials Reportedly “Stunned” by Trump’s Decision to Kill Soleimani

When top American military officials presented President Donald Trump with the option to kill Maj. Gen. Qassim Soleimani, Iran’s most powerful commander, they didn’t actually think he would take it, reports the New York Times. Pentagon officials usually include a far-out option when they present possibilities to the president in order to make the others seem less extreme. The other options presented to Trump in Mar-a-Lago, his Palm Beach resort, included strikes against Iranian ships or missile facilities or militias backed by Iran that are operating in Iraq. “The Pentagon also tacked on the choice of targeting General Suleimani, mainly to make other options seem reasonable,” reports the Times.

At first, it seemed everything was going according to plan. Trump rejected the option to kill Soleimani to respond to a wave of recent Iranian-sponsored violence in Iraq . Instead, he authorized airstrikes against an Iranian-supported militia group, Kataib Hezbollah. The strikes ended up hitting three locations in Iraq and two in Syria.

Then things changed when protesters gathered outside the U.S. embassy in Baghdad on Tuesday. Iranians saw the U.S. response as disproportionate but Trump became increasingly angry at the images he saw on television as protesters stormed the embassy. Suddenly, Trump was worried that failing to respond to the protests would look weak. By Thursday, Trump had decided to go forward with the killing of Soleimani and “top Pentagon officials were stunned,” reports the Times. CNN also reports that “some officials emerged surprised” when the president decided to target Soleimani as many expected he would go for a less risky option.

More at https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/01/pentagon-officials-reporte
dly-stunned-trump-kill-soleimani.html

Not to editorialize too much since two of these people are not yet dead so it is still possible for their stories to have an admirable, even beautiful finale, but the lives of people like Signym, Colonel Muammar Gaddafi and Trump are amusingly stupid, full of narrow escapes like you see with Emperor Palpatine. It is unsurprising when such people have many unnecessary troubles and die as ridiculously as they lived.
"Seriously, How Is Palpatine Alive In The Rise Of Skywalker?"
www.refinery29.com/en-us/2019/12/9070145/how-did-emperor-palpatine-com
e-back-have-a-child

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Monday, January 6, 2020 12:23 AM (P)

Everyone is crawling back from this decision [to assassinate Sulienamni], even the DEEP STATE that prompted it!

THUGR, SLOPPY, TWITCHY et al ... al of a sudden, you won't find hide nor hair of anyone who triggered this. WHO provided the intel? (CIA) WHO deployed the drones? (CIA). WHO urged Trump to attack? (well, Zionists like Jared Kushner and deep state officials like CIA, DIA, DOD and State Dept advisors like Mike Popmpeo, Mark Esper, Gina Haspel, and Mick Mulvaney; neocon politicians like Lindsey Graham.)

And isn't this what you wanted? DEEP STATE foreign policy? WAR ... if not with Russia, then with a Russian partner? Wow, all of the sudden your butt's not up to the task of what you've been jonesing for, for the past three years?

Your CONSTANT hounding of Trump over - literally - made-up shit (Russian "collusion", Ukrainegate) has put Trump in hock to warhawk Senators. I think you should take this moment to SERIOUSLY consider WHAT IT IS THAT YOU WANT AND IT'S REAL-LIFE CONSEQUENCES and stop telling yourself fairy tales about Republicans, Trump, the deep state, and war.

This was the stupidest decision that Trump ever made, and it will probably cost him the election because whether you want to recognize it or not, Trump had a substantial antiwar vote behind him, it wasn't all "racists" (as our two most-racist people on the board like to claim).

Thanks for your ridiculous three-year hysteria. At least now you have something real to worry about.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

SIGNYM

Monday, January 6, 2020 12:49 AM (P)

Quote:
SIGNY: There are, I'm sure, intense conversations going on between Iran and Russia, and Iran and China right now.

Since Russia and China seem to be committed to protecting Iran from direct attack, Iran has the leverage: Iran can always launch a direct attack from Iranian soil on US forces in the region, inviting a direct attack on their soil by the USA and drawing Russia into the resulting conflict. I'm sure the Russians (and Chinese) are drawing some very bright and clear lines for Iran about what they will, and won't, support.

But one thing the Russians are very adept at doing is getting even, eventually, and using the momentum of events to their advantage. I can imagine both Iraq and Lebanon getting a full complement of anti-aircraft and anti-missile defenses. Russia, I'm sure, would fully support Iraq kicking USA troops out.

AS PREDICTED

Quote:
Iraq Votes To Expel US Troops As Iranian MPs Chant "Death To America"

If President Trump wanted to reduce America's troop presence in the Middle East, he may have just got his wish, albeit not at his orders.

During an emergency parliamentary session this morning, the Iraqi government just voted to have foreign troops removed from the country.

Interim Iraqi prime minister, Adil Abdul Mahdi, stressed during the session, that while the US government notified the Iraqi military of the planned strike on Soleimani, his government denied Washington permission to continue with the operation.

As RT reports, Mahdi said after the incident that it was clear it was in the interest of both the US and Iraq to end the presence of foreign forces on Iraqi soil.

"Despite the internal and external difficulties that we might face, it remains best for Iraq on principle and practically."

Still there are plenty more US bases around...

Quote:
SIGNY: This assassination stinks to high heaven to every nation in the region, especially nations that feel connected to the USA. I'm sure they'll be rethinking their relationship with us.

Wow, just look at all of those targets for anti-American hostility! Maybe Afghanistan, Qatr, Oman, Kyrgystan, and Kuwait would like to quietly step out of the way?

Quote:
SIGNY: And of course something else is bound to happen: possibly economic or financial or military, but I can't imagine what. It may even involve India.

De-dollarization?

I have to say, this has probably solidified both Iraqi and Iranian governments. They've both been the target of demonstrations lately. But there's nothing like an external threat to cause a nation to forget its internal differences and draw together defensively!

****

Yanno, I can't figure if Trump is really stupid or smart like a fox. He's wanted to withdraw troops from the Middle East for a long time, and has gotten pushback from both the CIA AND the DOD. If he judo-moves this event into a troop withdrawal, then he's smart like a fox: He gave the deep state exactly what it wanted and scared the hell out of the Democrats, neocons, and Zionists in Congress. But if he turns this into an escalating battle from which neither he nor Iraq and Iran can back away, then he's a blithering idiot. I know he's had a hard-on for Iran since before he was elected. Flynn was a serious anti-Iran advisor. But as I said before, he can't make nice with Russia AND be anti-Iran. While Russia and Iran do have their differences (for historic and energy-flow reasons - i.e. who controls the flow of gas to Europe) they have definite geopolitical overlap and are partners in the Mideast.

Will the real world trump Trump? Or will Trump play the trump card that he's holding in his hand?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

SECOND

Monday, January 6, 2020 3:18 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Everyone is crawling back from this decision [to assassinate Sulienamni], even the DEEP STATE that prompted it!

THUGR, SLOPPY, TWITCHY et al ... al of a sudden, you won't find hide nor hair of anyone who triggered this. WHO provided the intel? (CIA) WHO deployed the drones? (CIA). WHO urged Trump to attack? (well, Zionists like Jared Kushner and deep state officials like CIA, DIA, DOD and State Dept advisors like Mike Popmpeo, Mark Esper, Gina Haspel, and Mick Mulvaney; neocon politicians like Lindsey Graham.)

And isn't this what you wanted? DEEP STATE foreign policy? WAR ... if not with Russia, then with a Russian partner? Wow, all of the sudden your butt's not up to the task of what you've been jonesing for, for the past three years?

Your CONSTANT hounding of Trump over - literally - made-up shit (Russian "collusion", Ukrainegate) has put Trump in hock to warhawk Senators. I think you should take this moment to SERIOUSLY consider WHAT IT IS THAT YOU WANT AND IT'S REAL-LIFE CONSEQUENCES and stop telling yourself fairy tales about Republicans, Trump, the deep state, and war.

This was the stupidest decision that Trump ever made, and it will probably cost him the election because whether you want to recognize it or not, Trump had a substantial antiwar vote behind him, it wasn't all "racists" (as our two most-racist people on the board like to claim).

Thanks for your ridiculous three-year hysteria. At least now you have something real to worry about.

This entire “presidency” is like being tied to a chair and watching a toddler play with a loaded pistol.

Signym, you called Trump a loose cannon, remember? This is what loose cannons do. He has a natural tendency to make stupid decisions, such as shutting down the government or raising tariffs on Canada. The Deep State didn't make him do those things. Those were his own brainstorms once he knew it was possible. Somebody let him know where Suleimani was, second by second, and Trump took it from there, same as when they let him know about his power over tariffs.

Here’s the scorecard so far following his attack on Qassim Suleimani:

1) US officials unanimously say we should expect retaliatory attacks on US assets.

2) The Iranian nuclear program is back in business.

3) The Iraqi parliament has voted to demand that US forces leave its territory.

Nice work, Mr. President Loose Cannon.

And he is planning on doing more destruction.
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump tweeted
The United States just spent Two Trillion Dollars on Military Equipment. We are the biggest and by far the BEST in the World! If Iran attacks an American Base, or any American, we will be sending some of that brand new beautiful equipment their way...and without hesitation!
9:11 PM - 4 Jan 2020
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1213689342272659456

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

1KIKI

Monday, January 6, 2020 11:53 AM (P)

oops

Oh wait!

OPPS

1KIKI

Monday, January 6, 2020 11:53 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And now we get to watch dems squirm over whether they support these assassinations because they're warhawks, or whether they're against it because ... yanno... Trump. And we get to watch Repubs squirm over whether they're for this because ... yanno ... Trump ... or whether they're against it because they're non-interventionist.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI: I think dims will be against it because ... Trump, and republicans will be for it because ... Trump. As far as they're both concerned, they probably couldn't even locate the country on a map.

So far it looks like House dims are against this because ... Trump. But Senate pubs are for it because ... Trump.

Meanwhile, 'Bibi" has a big smile on his face.

SIGNYM

Monday, January 6, 2020 12:26 PM (P)

Quote:
SLOPPY: This entire “presidency” is like being tied to a chair and watching a toddler play with a loaded pistol. Signym, you called Trump a loose cannon, remember? This is what loose cannons do.

You're worried about Trump, but you weren't worried when Obama was knocking over nations like pins at a bowling alley?

Fomenting a coup in Ukraine - smart move? Funding and arming jihadists in Libya: good decision? Transferring them thru Benghazi to Syria: wise choice? Conducting secret drone assassinations in Yemen and Pakistan: smooth policy? "Pivot" to Asia: strategic thinking?

Haven't seen a "wise decision" from anyone since ... well, in my lifetime, or yours. And up until this last stupid move, I'd say Trump's record was ahead of the pack's.

Obviously you've taken your eye off the ball far too long to have a clue about anything that's been going on since Vietnam. With your excessive record of throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks I have absolutely no reason to take seriously anything that you post.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

SIGNYM

Tuesday, January 7, 2020 3:44 AM (P)

SLOPPY, you've posted more than once that we should remember what our politicians do and hold them accountable. Well, I'm just remembering what Obama did. Maybe you should follow your own advice.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

1KIKI

Wednesday, January 8, 2020 12:56 PM (P)

just. great.

Iran fires more than a dozen missiles at US forces in Iraq, says it doesn't seek war
misiles bases militares estados unidos ataque iran soleimani trump brk juan carlos lopez jose levy_00025123.jpg
Analysis Trump faces choice after Iran attack: To escalate or not
President Donald Trump speaks during an "Evangelicals for Trump Coalition Launch" at King Jesus International Ministry, Friday, Jan. 3, 2020, in Miami. (AP Photo/ Evan Vucci)
Trump tweets message of optimism following Iran's attacks
missiles
Video appears to show missiles hit air base housing US troops

SIGNYM

Wednesday, January 8, 2020 9:34 PM (P)

Even worse ...

Quote:
Iran Refuses To Hand Over Crash Data, Stoking Speculation Plane Was Accidentally Shot Down

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/iran-refuses-hand-over-crash-da
ta-stoking-speculation-plane-was-accidentally-shot-down

One of the things repeatedly brought up by analysts discussing current tensions is that, at this point, the situation is ripe for false flags. (And our CIA is an expert at conducting false flags!) All "anyone" has to do is create an incident and blame Iran.

It will be extremely difficult for us mere mortals to suss out truth from lie. EVERYONE is going to want to spin this in their direction ... Israel and our deep state (two of the authors of this assassination) are going to fade even further into the background, while warhawk Republicans are going to paint this as a dire necessity (Don't worry, that narrative isn't going to go very far) and Democrats are going to SUDDENLY pretend to be the anti-war party!

If history is any guide, Iran will ignore Russia's advice to cool their jets because they feel righteously justified in striking back at the USA. Russia and Hezbollah will probably focus on getting USA troops out of Iraq ... this assassination is going to be ringing like a bell for at least a year, maybe longer.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

1KIKI

Thursday, January 9, 2020 12:17 AM (P)

I was wondering if Trump was going to take an exit ramp re the missile strikes in Iran - "We did what we needed to do with a very bad guy - we're all good - show's over folks!"

As for the crash ... yeah, we'll never hear the truth out of that one, just like we'll never hear the truth about MH17. https: / /www. zerohedge.com /geopolitical/ukranian-whistleblower-reveals-mh-17-tragedy-was-orchestrated-poroshenko-and-british
Everyone should be entirely skeptical of the news by now. There are just too many ways to hide the truth and push a narrative, especially when dealing with covert ops. At least a few significant and credible someones would have to come forward to reveal the truth like with the OPCW Douma report (for anyone who looks for evidence instead of claims).

When it comes to actions in the ME instead of words, what's happened is that the US 'presence' has ratcheted upwards, and that'll take some time and effort to go the other way, if the US ever does do that voluntarily.

Belief is for wimps and mental midgets!

SECOND

Thursday, January 9, 2020 12:35 AM (P)

Why is Trump so intolerant of Iran and yet so tolerant of Russia and North Korea?

Because President Obama signed a treaty with Iran but treated both North Korea and Russia harshly. Trump is motivated largely by a hatred of Obama, so he always wants to do the exact opposite. That means hating on Iran but cozying up to North Korea and Russia. This simple heuristic accounts for pretty much all of Trump’s country-specific sentiments, including Saudi Arabia, Israel, Germany, Canada, Ukraine, and Cuba.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Friday, January 10, 2020 11:06 PM (P)

Trump is harsh on Iran because Israel tells him to be. Or because Trump just has a boomer love for Israel. Or because Javanka wheedles him, or because his donors are pushing him. No matter how the message seeps thru, this is all for Israel.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

SIGNYM

Saturday, January 11, 2020 12:07 AM (P)

So what's the calculus on Iran and Iraq?

It's almost impossible to know WHY Trump took that fateful step of murdering Soleimani, who was (according to the Iraqi PM, and not denied by Saudi Arabia) on a peace mission between Saudi Arabia and Yemen.

Some clues might be gotten from the meeting at Mar a Lago, where Trump appears to have been ambushed by a gang of neocons from all directions, including Pompeo, Esper, O'Brian, Cotton, and Rubio. Not mentioned (but surely in the mix) Gina Haspel (CIA), if only by phone, because SOMEbody developed the (likely false) "intelligence" that said that Soleimani was planning a "large attack". It's hard to tell how much subterfuge versus arm-twisting was required, versus how much Trump wanted to do this on is own. If Trump was fooled by his "security state" (again) then shame on him. If neocon Senators twisted his arm over impeachment ... and I can imagine that they did because how to account for the presence of warhawk Senators at what should be a military/CIA meeting ... well, that's a somewhat different story.

In any case, Iran saved Trump's bacon. For now. By giving American military a one-hour notice and by firing missiles at American bases but carefully avoiding barracks where personnel might be sheltering, Iran was able to claim victory while giving Trump an off-ramp.

But this isn't going to be the last of this event. The focus that everyone (Iraq, Iran, Russia, China) can agree on is Iraq, and specificaly getting American troops out. Iraqi Parliament has voted for that, and the Iraqi PM has adopted as official policy the goal of removing US troops.

The question is: How? If American troops (and NATO troops) refuse to leave, what kind of pressure could/will be brought to bear on US bases?

The first thing to keep in mind is that the largest Shia militia force in Iraq is not the PMUs (Popular Mobilization Units) but the militias under Muqtada al-Sadr, who is NOT a friend of Iran! Probably small-scale harrassment - morter fire, cut supply lines, IEDs, rocket fire, possibly even a few suicide bombers. This will certainly be blamed in Iran, altho Iran would probably be involved in only about 20% of those attacks, and that only peripherally. How Trump would respond to that provocation is important, because that itself could turn into a proxy war. If the Iraqis have thought that far ahead, they would probably not turn to this tactic, altho both Iranians and Iraqis are rightly and royally pissed off.

A bigger step would be for Iraq to purchase Russian S-400s. As in Syria, there would be all of the usual steps along with that: deconfliction communication, red lines drawn, further squeezing of American airspace until airspace is esentially denied.

Another possibility is to satisfy Trump's transactional lust: he wants to get "something for something". He has openly said he wants to get paid for the bases that we built. The Iraq PM has said that privately Trump threatened to send snipers to shoot at demonstrators and Embassy security forces alike, turning the entire event into a shitshow to topple the government, if the PM didn't break his infrastructural deal with China and give the USA 50% of Iraqi oil. It's unlikely that Iraq would cancel its deal with China or give up so much of its oil - these are existential for Iraq - but China might just cut a check for the USA bases so that, once again, Trump can claim some sort of victory.

Trump's balls-to-the-wall "maximum pressure" style is certainly having an effect! I can't decide if it's Trump's intended effect, or simply based on Trump's refusal to recognize that the nations that he's dealing with have options besides succumbing to his browbeating, or his complete and total disregard for all of these "gloablist" systems that have mushroomed over the years.

Look at his refusal to grant the Iranian representative a visa to the UN for a Security Council meeting. Conservatives have said for

SIGNYM

Saturday, January 11, 2020 12:10 PM (P)

Quote:
US Rebuffs Iraq PM Request To Talk Troop Exit: It's "Our Right" As A "Force For Good" To Stay

Perhaps entirely to be expected, the US administration has unambiguously rejected Iraqi Prime Minister Adel Abdul-Mahdi's urgent call for Washington to enact a US troop 'withdrawal mechanism' in Iraq. In a Thursday phone call to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, the Iraqi leader urged the administration to “send delegates to Iraq to prepare a mechanism to carry out the parliament’s resolution regarding the withdrawal of foreign troops from Iraq.”

Echoing prior statements of Mark Esper, the State Department underscored Friday that it's "our right" as a "force for good" in the region to maintain "appropriate force posture in the Middle East" in a statement by spokesperson Morgan Ortagus. She stated the US considers that a troop pullout is not on the table for discussion with Baghdad officials.

MORE AT https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-rebuffs-iraq-pm-appeal-talk-
troop-exit-its-our-right-force-good-stay

"Force for good?"

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, January 11, 2020 5:02 PM (P)

lol. Force for good.

May the Force be with you.

And also with you.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Saturday, January 11, 2020 5:11 PM (P)

Trump reveals new details on imminent threat from Soleimani

Trump brings us to the brink of a disastrous war with Iran and then claims credit for stopping it.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, January 11, 2020 5:13 PM (P)

lol

I trust Trump more than I trust Meyers.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Saturday, January 11, 2020 6:24 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol

I trust Trump more than I trust Meyers.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

What does "trust" mean to you? Trump stupidly made up, or fictionalized, his whole story about four American embassies being imminently threatened by Iran's General, who would destroy those embassies unless Trump assassinated the General first. Trump's story is obviously phony/make-believe/baloney Trump created out of his imagination when asked a question.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

AURAPTOR

Saturday, January 11, 2020 6:58 PM (P)

Y'all mad that WW3 didn't happen?

SECOND

Saturday, January 11, 2020 7:21 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Y'all mad that WW3 didn't happen?

We have been down this road before with other Republican Presidents who feel the need for a lift in their popularity: In May 1975, shortly after the fall of Saigon, Cambodians seized the American merchant ship Mayaguez. Just as the Mayaguez sailors were being released, President Ford dispatched Marines to "rescue" the crew, but the Marines landed on the wrong island. In the operation, two military transport helicopters carrying the Marines for the assault operation were shot down, and 41 U.S. servicemen were killed. The "rescue" operation proved to be a boon to Ford's poll numbers; Senator Barry Goldwater declared that the operation "shows we've still got balls in this country," but no brains. We still don't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Gerald_Ford#Mayaguez_and_P
anmunjom

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, January 11, 2020 7:37 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol

I trust Trump more than I trust Meyers.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
What does "trust" mean to you? Trump stupidly made up, or fictionalized, his whole story about four American embassies being imminently threatened by Iran's General, who would destroy those embassies unless Trump assassinated the General first. Trump's story is obviously phony/make-believe/baloney Trump created out of his imagination when asked a question.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Seth Meyers along with all of the other late night hosts and most of the legacy media stupidly made up, or fictionalized, a whole bunch of bullshit over the last 3 years. It probably goes back decades, but almost everybody has a camera and an internet connection these days so that's been really bad for their business of lies.

It's why they've resorted to simply telling you what you want to hear for ratings.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Saturday, January 11, 2020 10:12 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Seth Meyers along with all of the other late night hosts and most of the legacy media stupidly made up, or fictionalized, a whole bunch of bullshit over the last 3 years. It probably goes back decades, but almost everybody has a camera and an internet connection these days so that's been really bad for their business of lies.

It's why they've resorted to simply telling you what you want to hear for ratings.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Trump lied about the imminent attack on four American embassies. He lied when he said he stopped those 4 attacks by killing 1 Iranian General. Why is that hard for you understand that he is only lying because he didn't think ahead about what bad things happen next (a plane with Canadians killed) when he assassinates a guy on the way to the airport to catch a flight home?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Saturday, January 11, 2020 10:40 PM (P)

I think Trump was told that there was an imminent attack planned, and that it would be like another Benghazi or another Iranian hostage crisis and that he'd get the blame. And then he was told he could prevent it by killing this guy.

Who told him that?

That was the deep state once again faking "intelligence" to stampede Trump. Like the (false) pictures of dead ducks and sick children in Salisbury (Skripal event) which never happened, which caused Trump to expel a bunch of Russian diplomats, or the "gas attack" in Douma (revealed as staged by internal OPCW documents leaked by whistleblowers) which caused Trump to launch missiles on Syria.

Don't pretend that the deep state and neocon Repubs AND Dems haven't been jonesing for war ever since Trump was elected. They have been hounding Trump as "Putin's puppet" ever since then.

The thing that pisses me off is that this is the THIRD time that Trump would have been fooled. Doesn't he know by now that the deep state and the warhawks are looking for any excuse to plant their knives in his back, above and beyond concocting the Russiagate and Ukrainegate hoaxes?

C'mon Mr Trump, you can't afford to be THAT brain-dead about foreign affairs, if only for your own political survival!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

JAYNEZTOWN

Saturday, November 28, 2020 3:09 AM (P)

Iran Accuses Israel Of Killing Top Nuclear Scientist, Vows 'Revenge'
https://www.ibtimes.com/iran-accuses-israel-killing-top-nuclear-scient
ist-vows-revenge-3090432

Iran scientist linked to military nuclear program killed
https://www.pressherald.com/2020/11/27/iran-scientist-linked-to-milita
ry-nuclear-program-killed/

JAYNEZTOWN

Monday, March 13, 2023 6:47 PM (P)

Women across Iran are refusing to wear headscarves, in open defiance of the regime

https://www.npr.org/sections/pictureshow/2023/03/13/1157657246/iran-hi
jab-protest-regime-politics-religion-mahsa-amini

JAYNEZTOWN

Friday, March 24, 2023 2:18 AM (P)

Ukraine: 'Iranian drones' leave Zelensky's key infrastructure going up in flames

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1747926/Ukraine-live-explosions-i
ran-drone

President Joe Biden used a White House event celebrating Nowruz, the Persian New Year, to pay tribute to Iranian women and girls who took to the streets of Iran last year to protest the death of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini. (March 20)

JAYNEZTOWN

Monday, October 9, 2023 7:12 PM (P)

Trump and Iran

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/111197032160164539

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