If you could change 3 things about Buffy season 7

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 02:26
VIEWED: 35995
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OPPYH

Monday, June 20, 2005 11:23 PM

3. Kill off Willow and Xander, because being my favorite characters, they deserved much, much more than this season had to offer. They could have both been zombies, and it would have had the same feel. Shame.

2. Tone down the potential slayers. They got the limelight, and didn't really deserve it. They could have showed up in episode 19, and it would have had the same effect in the end.

1. Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy. If ever there was a more annoying character... no, there was never a more annoying character. Why, oh why in the world did the writers think Willow needed to fall in in love with a macho, man hating, militant, arrogant, selfish, whiny, spoiled brat? I can't write about this too long, she is the reason I almost didn't finish 7. HORRIBLE MISTAKE.

overall a good season, but it really should have come back to the core characters, and instead it drifted, and that is a crying shame.

LUCIDDREAMS

Monday, June 20, 2005 11:41 PM

1. Change the focus on characters - I also wanted more focus on the core characters. It felt like the heart of the show was missing. Like SMG constantly says: more Xander! I'd also want more Giles. And yeah, less potentials. I also heard Joss was going to bring in AB in the end. I don't care how many times they've done that; I would have loved that! In retrospect, I think there probably was too much Spike but JM made it enjoyable.

2. More stand alone episodes - Look at Storyteller, Selfless, and Conversations with Dead People. Notice what they have in common? Towards the end of s5 and s7 I felt the seasons suffered from too much focus on the finale's arc. The other seasons did better jobs of having stand alones without sacrificing the arcs. When the episodes became all about the big finales they just all blended together in my mind.

3. 2 hour season finale.

GLORYBE

Monday, June 20, 2005 11:47 PM

1. Tara/The First speaking to Willow instead of Cassie.

2. The Buffy gets one wish and brings back Tara storyline that Joss didn't get to do because of trouble getting Amber Benson to come back.

3. More wicca for Willow, more funny for Xander and more crazy for Anya.

STARPILOTGRAINGER

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 12:17 AM

1. Set up the whole 'make every girl a slayer' thing better. I love the idea, but I would have liked to see it better established - as it was, it looked like something they pulled out of thin air, "oh, might as well be magic." I would have liked to see something along the lines of (very roughly) them questioning why the first Evil launching the attack now was supposed to be because of there being two slayers at once, which leads them to the realization that... "Hey... if there _can_ be two slayers at once, why can't there be more?" "A new slayer being called doesn't depend on there being no slayers left in the world, a slayer dying just pulls the trigger."
It looked like this was the kind of idea they _wanted_ to go with, but they never quite pulled it off in a way that really gelled.
2. Overall a better sense of pacing, rather than huge apocalyptic monsters like the Ubervamp appearing mid-season and being unstoppable, but then being easily dispatched episodes later.
3. Two words: All Nude. Err, sorry, my mind was in the naughty place. Four words: Tara instead of Cassie.

Star Pilot Grainger
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EVILMIKE

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 12:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by StarPilotGrainger:
1. Set up the whole 'make every girl a slayer' thing better. I love the idea, but I would have liked to see it better established - as it was, it looked like something they pulled out of thin air, "oh, might as well be magic." I would have liked to see something along the lines of (very roughly) them questioning why the first Evil launching the attack now was supposed to be because of there being two slayers at once, which leads them to the realization that... "Hey... if there _can_ be two slayers at once, why can't there be more?" "A new slayer being called doesn't depend on there being no slayers left in the world, a slayer dying just pulls the trigger."
It looked like this was the kind of idea they _wanted_ to go with, but they never quite pulled it off in a way that really gelled.

I second this observation. I thought it was an interesting story bit, but I really wanted to see the First discover that there was a second edge to this new opportunity.

OPPYH

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 1:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
3. Kill off Willow and Xander, because being my favorite characters, they deserved much, much more than this season had to offer. They could have both been zombies, and it would have had the same feel. Shame.

I just remembered that powerful scene where willow is at Xander's bedside in the hospital, after he loses his eye. Willow starts to break down after he makes that funny comment about Jaws 3-d.
That really got to me, because in that one small scene you could see the love and respect they have for each other. I guess I was too harsh with the killing them off comment. It's just that I wanted more of them during the season, because they were my favorite characters. It just left me a liitle empty at the end.

DIETCOKE

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 1:18 AM

Okay. Problem with season seven? Bad acting. Not one of the potentials was interesting including Kennedy. I liked the concept not the excecution.

Calib just creeped me out.....no words.....he was for me the worst....big bad.

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

GTMAN8503

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 1:48 AM

1) The First. Really turned out to be a lame villan. Perhaps The First could have spent the first part of the season as incorporeal, but then gathered enough energy to become solid (Perhaps by using a "vessel" like The Master did in Season 1, and using the energy sucked out of potential slayers to become solid, becoming an UberCaleb). If the first was solid instead of incorporeal, they could have abandoned the whole arc where he's raising an army of UberVamps, in which case...

2) No potentials needed! If The First didn't raise an army, you wouldn't need an army of potential slayers to fight. Buffy and the Scoobies could have done it alone. For me, the season was going along fine until the potentials showed up (ESPECIALLY KENNEDY). The actresses weren't particularly good, and all of their characters were annoying. And, no potentials means no Kennedy-Willow relationship, which, imo, wasn't well developed. To me, it seemed like:

Kennedy: "I'm a spoiled little rich girl who always gets what I want. I'm also a lesbian, and I think you're hot. I want you."
Willow: "I too am a lesbian. Even though I hardly even know you, I guess we can be lovers. There just aren't that many other lesbians around."

3) One last thing I would change about the season...more Xander, more Willow, more Anya, more Giles, even more Dawn (never thought I'd say that). But, with the potentials out of the way, they'd have more screentime anyways.

BATMARLOWE

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:45 AM

I'd keep "Conversations with Dead People". I'd change everything else.

But if I had to narrow it down to 3.

1) Lose the Potentials
2) Lose the First
3) Make SMG play at least 60% of her scenes without her arms folded.

SIRENKAIN

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 5:17 AM

Bringing Faith back was a good choice,(nice set up for a spin off) but it never seemed to work. She was better in earlier seasons -even before she went evil. The conversations between Faith and Buffy aways seemed lifeless in S7.

Any one else have a problem with Amy suddening hexing Willow, besides the fact she should have hexed Kennedy instead?

Morbid and creep-ifying I got no problem with.

ZOOT

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gtman8503:
To me, it seemed like:

Kennedy: "I'm a spoiled little rich girl who always gets what I want. I'm also a lesbian, and I think you're hot. I want you."
Willow: "I too am a lesbian. Even though I hardly even know you, I guess we can be lovers. There just aren't that many other lesbians around."
.

Hur hur! Am sitting at my desk at work laughing my arse off - very funny indeed!!!

***************************************

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

FRAY101

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:34 AM

Agree with pretty much everything said above but to clarify:

1. No potentials (which rules out Kennedy straight away)

2. As mentioned above, Buffy's wish brings Tara back ("look at my new shoes"! - ah, I'd have been in tears if that had happened).

3. Xander would not betray Buffy. I hate that a few episodes previously he was telling the Potentials how much she deserved their respect, then he too turned his back on her. Yes, I know he lost his eye so was in a grumpy place but all the Scoobies made sacrificies over the years, some physical, some emotional. I just hated that whole storyline where they turned against her.

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CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:49 AM

3. Willow giving girls slayer powers. Buffy's unwilling to sacrifice some of her own humanity to save the world when the Shadow Men try and force it on her, so instead she forces it onto a bunch of girls she's never met.

2. The First. "Argh, we're being attacked by a bratty concept with emotion" Caleb should have been the big bad the whole way through.

3. "We're going to march into the seal and THEN get Willow to give you girls slayer power."

Unlike a lot of people I really would have hated Tara to come back, not because I don't love her but all of season 6 is about how bringing people back from the dead is BAD, Buffy knows this better than anyone. For her to not respect Tara and bring her back, no matter how it's done, gets rid of the only real bit of development Buffy had in the last two years.
I actually really liked the fact they turned against Buffy, I thought it was about time that someone questioned why Buffy was in charge and the fact that maybe someone else should be. However, I thought Giles should have replaced her rather than Faith.

GROUNDED

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 11:10 AM

1. Buffy wakes up in the first ep of S7 to discover S6 was all just a crazy dream.

2. Um, that's it.

FRAY101

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
1. Buffy wakes up in the first ep of S7 to discover S6 was all just a crazy dream.

2. Um, that's it.

But that would mean no singing!

Plus she'd still be dead....

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CS

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 11:34 AM

I could go on forever but 3 things:

-No potentials. Or at least not as characters, the concept is ok because it allowed for Buffy to finally be relieved from her duties.

-Return of Oz! He used to make Buffy so great, and I can just see a great Willow/Oz story- willow's gay but Oz loves her. It's been done before but I know it would have worked great on Buffy, the relationship would have been beautiful.

-More Xander. I would have rather had him evil (controlled by the first) than in it hardly at all.

IAMZOE

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 12:04 PM

I would change just one thing:

1. make the Potentials accents better.

GWEK

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 1:57 PM

1) A little less talk, a little more action, please. There was a lot of pretty speechifying about how it's time to fight to the bitter end blah blah blah, which was often followed up with MORE talk rather than actually fighting.

2) No Angel in the finale. He's shoehorned in there and they could've come up with another bridge to get Spike onto the other show. I think the pacing of the season would've been better served by Angel coming in earlier, to help fight the uber-vamp.

3) No Caleb. As I understand it, Caleb was an add-on part written for Nathan Fillion after "Firefly" was cancelled. My impression is that, without the introduction of Caleb, Wood might've become the First's "hand", which I think would've been a more interesting arc. Don't get me wrong, it was fun to see Fillion all morbid and creepifying, but I thought Wood was a character with great potential who was largely wasted in the third act of the season.

Honorable mention: Better death scene for Anya. I thought they did the best they could with the time alloted, but she was such an important character throughout the series that I thought she deserved a little more attention.

As an aside, I am, apparently, the only Buffy fan who liked Kennedy.

SIGMANUNKI

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:11 PM

1) Move storyteller to season 6 (it was the only good ep of the season).
2) Magically remove season 7 from existance
3) Rejoice.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

ZEEK

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:54 PM

1.) No Kennedy/Willow relationship. I don't care if she's around, but the two don't work together.

2.) More explination. The end of conversations with dead people was great. Buffy's mom gave a nice ominous message, but it never really materialized. I really wanted to see Buffy betray Dawn in a big way. Not just sending her away for her own good. Buffy's mom would never have warned Dawn about that. Then there was the whole reason the First chose to attack then. In the episode with the big eye thing that Anya and Giles talk to there's a hint at why he's attacking, but it's never totally explained. In fact the explination seems contradictory. They say it's because of Buffy coming back from the dead still a slayer or something. Well that would mean now is the worst time to strike because there are two slayers instead of one.

3.) Either have Buffy and Spike get together or have them just be friends. The whole relationship just out of reach thing the entire season was annoying.

Also, I really like the mention of Willow making the First corporeal. What I really would have liked though was for this to have been the First's plan all along. Have the First hint at it's strength being that no one can kill it. Have the gang slowly figure out a spell that will make the First corporeal. Then when they finally pull it off in the finale, have the First be far too powerful for them to fight and have it kill Buffy. Possibly let the First get away or have Willow and the others seal it away somehow. Either way it would have been cool to have them end up unleashing the big bad rather than stopping it.

BATMARLOWE

Wednesday, June 22, 2005 3:32 AM

To Grounded: Amen, brother (or sister)!

To Fray101: I know no Season 6 and 7 means no musical and that Buffy's dead. The end of Season 5 was a tragedy, but it was a beautiful one. If Season 5 had been the end of the show, I wouldn't want it to end in Buffy's death. But since it did end with that beautifully done tragedy I rather see it go out like that than to go on to what IMHO are two inferior seasons. And I'm even willing to sacrifice the musical for that.

Back to Grounded: Did you mean 7 still happened but 6 was all dream or that both 6 and 7 were a dream?

SPACECOWGIRL

Wednesday, June 22, 2005 4:06 AM

1.Tara instead of Kennedy
2.SMG doesn't have a cold.
3.Wood dies. He tried to kill Spike so I don't like him!
4.Better, less whiny potentials. Good idea-bad execution.

And that's more than 3 so I'll stop now. By the way I do like Season 7. I like most all of BTVS.

GROUNDED

Wednesday, June 22, 2005 9:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by batmarlowe:
Back to Grounded: Did you mean 7 still happened but 6 was all dream or that both 6 and 7 were a dream?

Well the thread was about changing things in S7 so I worked around that. Personally I'd erase all of S6/7, including the good eps - they were good, but not worth the pain of all the others.

BATMARLOWE

Thursday, June 23, 2005 10:10 PM

I couldn't agree more. There were some good eps in 6 and 7 but IMHO only 3 great ones. OMWF (anybody notice that billboard on THE INSIDE the other night?), "Tabula Rasa" and "Conversations with Dead People". But I felt overall those seasons were just botched--bad ideas badly handled. And like you said--not worth the pain.

GROUNDED

Thursday, June 23, 2005 10:33 PM

I'm not a huge fan of S5 either, but it had Angel S2 running concurrently to ease the slight pain. Angel S3 did it's best to balance out Buffy S6, but ultimately couldn't cope. Then came the sucker punch combo of Angel S4 and Buffy S7 and it was KO for me :(

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Thursday, June 23, 2005 10:57 PM

I didn’t watch season 7 and I only saw about two-thirds of season 6. In my opinion, the end of season 5 was the best ending that the series could have had. Season 6 took a powerful and dramatic ending and turned it into an anticlimactic let-down. The whole slayer mythology rested on the notion that slayers ultimately die and are replaced by new slayers. This lent a tragic and ominous provision to the Scoobies’ adventures that the writers milked for all it was worth, but when the time came to pay the piper they reneged. So while there were many episodes in season 6 and possibly season 7 that were certainly good (in fact, despite not fitting into the Buffy atmosphere, Season 6 had some of the best writing) the only thing I would changed about season 7, and by extension season 6, is that they had never been made.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

SPIKEANDJEZEBEL

Thursday, June 23, 2005 10:57 PM

More Joss-written episodes, and particularly a Joss "Special" episode. You know the type - each season had one or two - the mind-blowingly different episode that was the best thing about television in it's given year?

Examples: Doppelgangland, Hush, Restless, The Body, Once More with Feeling. Season 7 was sorely lacking on those kind of episodes, with Storyteller and Selfless being the closest, but neither written by Joss.

"I like smackin' 'em!" - Jayne Cobb

BATMARLOWE

Thursday, June 23, 2005 11:58 PM

Well, we split on this one, Grounded. Season 5 comes in at number 3 for me (after 3 and 2). You wanna do a Season full of pain? Season 5 is how you do it.

I didn't want more pain after season 5, but they went that way, so I had to meet them halfway and accept that and then judge it on it's own merits. Of which it had little. In my opinion. But ironically enough my least favorite season has is arguably the best episode of the show.

BATMARLOWE

Friday, June 24, 2005 12:07 AM

Finn, I second your anti-climax. Buffy's death was powerful and moving. And resurrecting her undercut that and piper was left unpaid. I would have rather seen 2 seasons of how the Scoobies try to continue without her than what we got.

SIGMANUNKI

Friday, June 24, 2005 2:12 AM

Holy Crap! Finn and I agree on something!!!

----
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JUTIN77

Friday, June 24, 2005 3:52 AM

posting in this thread earns you a firey coal for a chair in your own special hell...

GROUNDED

Friday, June 24, 2005 11:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by batmarlowe:
Well, we split on this one, Grounded. Season 5 comes in at number 3 for me (after 3 and 2). You wanna do a Season full of pain? Season 5 is how you do it.

I didn't think it was bad as a whole, I just thought there were so many weak episodes wrapped inside an uninspiring arc. There are maybe 7 eps at most that I'd willingly rewatch.

NUMEROCINCUENTAUNO

Sunday, June 26, 2005 4:33 AM

Sad that (unless I missed it) no one wants to suggest that the #1 change they would have liked to see in Season Seven is that it would be followed by a Season Eight. That in itself might have avoided some problems, like the casting call for Potential stars for the spin-off.

Number 2, I would have liked to see a better villain with a scarier agenda. On the face of it, we are back to where the story began: the last shall be (The) First. It takes a credible opponent to make the heroes heroic.

At times it was a neat idea to allow the First to take the form of all the other Big Bads (all presumably aspects of the First), and spending most of the end in the form of Buffy (we have met the enemy and they are us), but the writers spent so much time on misdirection that it ended up as simply confusing and shapeless. At the end, we find out that their master plan is to build an army to control the world. These beings are the ultimate, undying evil, and the worst you can say about them is that they are Republicans?

(However, Nathan Fillion was easily the scariest minion in the Buffyverse.)

Lastly, there is no doubt that S7 became rather dense in the number of characters sharing the precious 44 minutes a week. For fans, throwing in a scene between Faith and the Mayor resonated immediately, but left less dedicated watchers confused. I think it is a testament to the richness of the Buffyverse that the writers did a pretty good job of keeping the secondary characters alive while focusing on the main relationship (in my mind, Buffy and Spike), but the strain clearly showed. The comments from various people who would like to have seen more of X, Y, or Z simply indicate that there was a lot more story potential in the framework.

SPACECOWGIRL

Wednesday, June 29, 2005 12:39 AM

Quote:
Sad that (unless I missed it) no one wants to suggest that the #1 change they would have liked to see in Season Seven is that it would be followed by a Season Eight.

Much as I love BTVS I think it was time to wrap it up at Season 7, unlike Angel, Firefly, & even Joan of Arcadia--all of which had a lot more story to tell but were cancelled prematurely.
Sometimes flawed, mostly brilliant, BTVS is probably my all time favorite show & I'm so thankful that DVDs exist.

I aim to misbehave.

BOBTAYLOR

Wednesday, June 29, 2005 1:11 AM

1. Eliminate the first third of the potentials.
2. Eliminate the second third of the potentials.
3. Eliminate the third third of the potentials.

They were a concept that just never worked until the series finale. And thematically making sense for one hour does not justify 20-odd episodes of general uncomfortableness over the lack of screen time for characters we love.

-----------------------
www.robert-b-taylor.com
www.robert-b-taylor.blogspot.com

OPPYH

Wednesday, June 29, 2005 4:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NumeroCincuentaUno:
The comments from various people who would like to have seen more of X, Y, or Z simply indicate that there was a lot more story potential in the framework.

Exactly right. Buffy the Vampire Slayer was an amazing show. I didn't hate season 7 at all, but when you care about something to this degree you start thinking of ways it could have been perfect. If it was everyone's idea of perfect, I guess that would be sort of scary.

VLAD

Wednesday, June 29, 2005 10:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
1) A little less talk, a little more action, please. There was a lot of pretty speechifying about how it's time to fight to the bitter end blah blah blah, which was often followed up with MORE talk rather than actually fighting.

2) No Angel in the finale. He's shoehorned in there and they could've come up with another bridge to get Spike onto the other show. I think the pacing of the season would've been better served by Angel coming in earlier, to help fight the uber-vamp.

3) No Caleb. As I understand it, Caleb was an add-on part written for Nathan Fillion after "Firefly" was cancelled. My impression is that, without the introduction of Caleb, Wood might've become the First's "hand", which I think would've been a more interesting arc. Don't get me wrong, it was fun to see Fillion all morbid and creepifying, but I thought Wood was a character with great potential who was largely wasted in the third act of the season.

Honorable mention: Better death scene for Anya. I thought they did the best they could with the time alloted, but she was such an important character throughout the series that I thought she deserved a little more attention.

As an aside, I am, apparently, the only Buffy fan who liked Kennedy.

That makes two of us. *laugh* Think of it more as an exclusive club. A VERY exclusive club.

Vlad

GWEK

Wednesday, June 29, 2005 2:49 PM

I agree and actually liked season 7 a lot, although I have to admit I enjoyed it much more when I watched it over the course of a week on DVD rather than over the course of a a season on TV. But that's the way all Whedon-TV should be watched (essentially as a 15-20 hour movie).

I put seasons 6 and 7 up near the top (although 2 is my favorite), with 4 at the definite bottom. If we were talking about changes for a season, I think I'd need more than 3 slots for season 4...

ZOOT

Wednesday, June 29, 2005 3:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
I agree and actually liked season 7 a lot, although I have to admit I enjoyed it much more when I watched it over the course of a week on DVD rather than over the course of a a season on TV. But that's the way all Whedon-TV should be watched (essentially as a 15-20 hour movie).

I put seasons 6 and 7 up near the top (although 2 is my favorite), with 4 at the definite bottom. If we were talking about changes for a season, I think I'd need more than 3 slots for season 4...

That's so weird! Have read loads of different sites and everyone hates Buffy season 4 - but bizarrely I think that’s my favourite! I just can’t understand why people hated it!!! Season 5 is a low, low point for me …..

Come on now guys, someone else out there must like season 4 too – I mean we are talking such episodes as Fear Itself, Laving Conditions, A New Man and Pangs – not to mention the superlative episodes: Something Blue, Hush and Superstar … but maybe its just me …. Perhaps I should start a new thread – “Why I like Buffy Season 4 and am just so gorram weird”!!

***************************************

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

GWEK

Wednesday, June 29, 2005 4:05 PM

I agree that season 4 has some great episodes, but I think it has one of the weakest overall story arcs. I thought there was a lot of potential and a lot of good ideas, but, for me, it didn't gel as much as many of the other seasons.

Plus, I think Adam (although a great concept), looks silly. :)

I know where you're coming from, though, since I feel like I'm in the minority for liking season 6.

GROUNDED

Wednesday, June 29, 2005 4:56 PM

The overall arc of S4 is pretty dire, but there are so many standout eps to compensate. Even the lesser eps usually have classic moments - Doomed for example has the hilarious Spike attempted suicide scene.

"See you in Hell, Dru."

Genius.

SPIKEANDJEZEBEL

Wednesday, June 29, 2005 5:08 PM

I love season 4. In fact, I am of the (minority) opinion that Buffy shares the even-numbered rule with the Star Trek movies - the even numbered seasons are the best. My favorites are seasons 2, 4, and 6, though not necessarily in that order.

"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care. Or indeed, why it should be necessary to prove it at all." -Kerr Avon

GWEK

Wednesday, June 29, 2005 5:12 PM

Definitely with you on 2 and 6. As for 4, it could just be that I always hated Riley. Wait, that can't be it because I hated Angel, too. Hm.

BATMARLOWE

Wednesday, June 29, 2005 6:15 PM

I like season 4 too!. The arc is definitely the weakest (of seasons 1-5) but the stand-alones are great. I'm not an anti-Riley person, either. I enjoyed watching their relationship develop.

I've always been a strong supporter of season 5 too. But I'm re-watching S5 these days, and I must admit I'm having my doubts. And "The Body" is next. It's a great ep but it's one I have to psyche myself up for. Just take deep breath and get ready.

I'm also in the I Don't Hate Kennedy Club. I didn't want to see Tara go and I felt Joss was turning the knife by having her murdered. But Kennedy as a character was fine. A bit of pain in the neck at times but...

So I like Riley, pretty much like Kennedy, and I really like Season 4. I think I'm the only member of this club.

BLINKER

Thursday, June 30, 2005 12:55 AM

Everyone else has hit the pacing and character focus points, so I'll go in for some lesser changes:

1. Better follow-through. Giles and Anya spend half an episode learning that the First's emergence was made possible by a weakness in the Slayer line, but as far as we know, they never tell anyone and the hard-won knowledge never comes to anything. Similarly, we're never let in on the truth of Dawn's visitations. Was it the First, and if so, how did it wreak all that physical havoc? Was Buffy sending Dawn away supposed to be the betrayal Joyce warned of? In both these cases, and others, the pay-off fizzles.

2. The First's identities. At the beginning of the season, a friend of mine enthused that the First's shape-changing ability could allow anyone in history to be written in, for purposes of humour or metaphor. The Scoobies could be harangued by Shakespeare, or Richard Nixon, or Dorothy Parker, or... heck, you fill in the blank. Instead, the First stuck to impersonating past "Buffy" characters.

3. Anya. She used to be the brightest, funniest thing going, and yet this season she becomes absolutely painful to watch. She mopes, she snaps, she exudes ennui like a Calvin Klein model on depressants. Aside from the excellent "Selfless" (in which Anya is, if anything, even more miserable), she's just a drag. Joss forsook the chance to stufy an ongoing marriage on the show for this?

Quote:
Perhaps The First could have spent the first part of the season as incorporeal, but then gathered enough energy to become solid (Perhaps by using a "vessel" like The Master did in Season 1, and using the energy sucked out of potential slayers to become solid, becoming an UberCaleb).

That's really where I thought they were going with the First. There was a scene where someone says that it can't be harmed, and Willow or Giles starts to speak up as though there might be a way around that. And then, of course, there's the bit where the First longs to be made flesh so that it could put its hands around the necks of its victims. But instead, the potentials implausibly defeat several dozen of the million Ubervamps, Spike conveniently deus ex amulets the rest, and the First slinks off stage left in the aftermath.

_________
Sliders: Gate Haven - http://slidersweb.net/blinker

AIRYLLI

Sunday, July 3, 2005 7:35 AM

1.) no potentials. zero. well, i guess they were plot-important. ok, make them like the reavers in "bushwacked": there, but you can't see 'em.

2.) real giles and more of him. he was almost character assassinated...saved only by the fact that ASH is amazing.

3.) focus on core slayerettes like they did in the old days..as much as i love spike, i didn't like the "Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Spike the Vampire Wonder" that was season 7.

runner-up: make the first/ubervamps less...lame. brilliant concept, mediocre execution. an actually evil buffy would've been really awesome to see. and if i'd wanted uruk-hai, i'd would've put in LotR.

hey, or we could prevent some of this by putting joss in charge of season 6 instead of marti..more story and less soft-core porn..ahem.

----
I swallowed a bug.

www.cafepress.com/airylli

CHRISISALL

Saturday, July 9, 2005 5:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
I'm not a huge fan of S5 either

Curious, Grounded...do you think S4 is a lot or just a little better than S5?
I'm on the third ep of S4, and so far I like it.
Xander is crackin' me up, poor vagabond.

So many shows, so little time Chrisisall

GROUNDED

Saturday, July 9, 2005 8:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
I'm not a huge fan of S5 either

Curious, Grounded...do you think S4 is a lot or just a little better than S5?
I'm on the third ep of S4, and so far I like it.

Some background: I started watching Buffy on BBC2. I got digital TV not long before S6 was due to start on Sky One (way ahead of BBC2 which hadn't even started S5) so my brother and I split the cost of the Buffy S5 and Angel S2 VHS sets so we could blitz through them in time for the new season. There followed a week or so of intensive viewing, switching back and forth between the two so as to preserve perfect viewing continuity. This served to make Buffy S5 seem stronger because a) the poorer eps were easier to forget in the crush and b) each episode of Buffy watched meant we could watch another Angel (which we both thought was much better).

On reflection, Buffy S5 has about 2 truly good episodes and a few okay ones IMO (I won't go into which ones for fear of spoiling you). In other words, with 3 or 4 times as many classic episodes and far fewer weak ones, S4 blows it out of the water. There's not much more I can say really, without spoiling - I look forward to an in depth analysis thread when you've worked through all of S4 and S5 ;)

By the way, if you liked the first three eps you're probably going to like the rest even more - the 1st three are some of the year's weakest.

Edit: "Buffy, I've gone through some fairly dark times in my life. Faced some scary things, among them the kitchen at the fabulous Ladies Night club. Let me tell ya' something: When it's dark, and I'm all alone, and I'm scared, or freaked out or whatever, I always think, 'What would Buffy do?' You're my hero. Ok, sometimes when it's dark and I'm all alone, I think, 'What is Buffy wearing?'..."

"And nothing says thank you like dollars in the waistband."

CHRISISALL

Sunday, July 10, 2005 3:11 PM

I hate to say this, but Beer Bad wasn't so bad. If you take it like, say The Apple in Star Trek...

Chrisisall

GROUNDED

Sunday, July 10, 2005 3:25 PM

"There will be no Thomas Aquinas at this table"

CHRISISALL

Sunday, July 10, 2005 5:04 PM

So far out of the 6 eps I've seen of S4, Beer Bad was the only one I didn't like a lot. I miss Cordellia a little, but I don't miss Angel...
This is lookin' like it'll be my favourite season!
I like the college dynamic, too.

Academia-like Chrisisall

GROUNDED

Sunday, July 10, 2005 7:40 PM

The end of Fear, Itself was a bit cack no?

CHRISISALL

Monday, July 11, 2005 12:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
The end of Fear, Itself was a bit cack no?

Cack (?) Unknown phrase.
It was funny beyond words, especially when Giles said "Actual size." I almost fell over.
And Wild at Heart actually got me teary, so I know it was great.

S4 groupie Chrisisall

GROUNDED

Monday, July 11, 2005 9:51 AM

cack = bad

I thought the actual size bit was a pretty cheap gag.

CHRISISALL

Monday, July 11, 2005 9:00 PM

Cheap? I guess. But so unexpected that I almost peed my kilt.
The Initaitive thing is awsome!! Shoulda known that Gorram psych teacher was not what she seemed.

Groovy Chrisisall

GROUNDED

Monday, July 11, 2005 9:05 PM

The only reason I would rewatch Fear, Itself is for the awesome Oz sitting in the bathtub scene.

CHRISISALL

Monday, July 11, 2005 9:36 PM

Anya and Xander's first time was a scream. Season 4 is just so much bigger that what came before.
Even Beer Bad had some good moments (and wasn't as bad as Bad Eggs). It's hilarious that Joss actually appologizes for it on the note that comes with the dvd's.

Bad Pizza Chrisisall

CS

Saturday, August 13, 2005 8:39 PM

I think season 4 will always remain the most controversial Buffy season.

For the record, I loved it MUCH more than any other, it had everything I like about Buffy:

-Faith. The good Faith, not the (comparatively) dull S7 Faith

-Oz. Shame this was where his Buffyverse days ended for him (if only they'd made Angel 6, I heard he was planned for it).

-Spike at his best. I say his best because he was still cool and evil, but the chip meant he was with the scoobies and part of the action. Brilliant idea.

There's many many other reasons I like it the most but I don't want to go too off topic. Just to get back on, another way to improve S7:

-Wipe all the footage and replace with season 4 (but forgetting to put Beer Bad on).

HJERMSTED

Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:05 PM

I definitely would have loved to see a return plot thread for Oz. His story is not over yet.

If James Marsters does indeed get too old to play Spike in a TV movie of some kind, I suggest revisiting the Oz character (but not in London... lol).

-------

More actors from Firefly worked into the seventh season would have been great too.

-------

Two hour finally with some mourning closure for the fallen Anya!!

-------

But mostly, I am okay with the UPN years of Buffy. I know some people hate them overall... but watch them in a marathon sometime. Those season actually work very well.

mattro

LAMIASONG

Sunday, August 14, 2005 10:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
More actors from Firefly worked into the seventh season would have been great too.

Two hour finally with some mourning closure for the fallen Anya!!
But mostly, I am okay with the UPN years of Buffy. I know some people hate them overall... but watch them in a marathon sometime. Those season actually work very well.

mattro

i agree with 2 and 3 points it would of been the ultimate show of skill to the writers to get a scene with Wash... so cute.

Absolutly agree, there just wasnt enough time for me to sob my heart out over Anya's demise before Xander was already giving a "Aww shucks, the love of my life is dead" act.
my 3 point- get rid of that potential in the dungerees, her voice, her whining so much more irritating then kennedy-at least ken has a tongue piercing! i try and fast forward any scene where Indigo opens her mouth!

one big shiny family

JELLO

Sunday, August 14, 2005 11:29 PM

So true, I hated Rona 1000 times more than Kennedy.

-----------------------------------
Mal: You wanna run this ship?
Jayne: Yes.
Mal: Well… you can’t.

LAMIASONG

Sunday, August 14, 2005 11:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jello:
So true, I hated Rona 1000 times more than Kennedy.
---
thank you- could not remember her name...
why couldnt she die instead of Anya, Amanda and all the other potentials...I mean[qoute] ding dong the witch is dead

sooo stupid. what was joss thinking when he allowed that monster into our homes? yes i know I am slightly irrational over this... any tips to get past this problem greatly appreciated but hopeful!

one big shiny family

TRAVIS

Monday, August 15, 2005 2:08 AM

1. Kill Buffy the whole premise of the show was one slayer dies another is called. We all got cheated in the end. But I guess it'd been done before and before and before so I guess it would of been kind of cheapened.

2. Kill Xander I just never like him and am too lazy to go into why here.

3. Three words... Faith orgy potentials

CS

Tuesday, August 16, 2005 6:35 PM

I don't think killing Xander would have worked, I thought it was nice that the core 3 survived.

Then again, the First's primary disguise could have been Xander which would have been pretty cool. And Xander would have had some effect on the series other than 'the guy who fixes windows'.

DIETCOKE

Wednesday, August 17, 2005 4:45 PM

Boy, this is just one nasty, bitter thread for a fansite! You've created a thread for whiners.

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

JOSSISAGOD

Friday, August 19, 2005 12:44 AM

1. MAKE DAWN A SLAYER!, Michelle needed more on screen time! and to see the younger sister continue the legacy!
2. Tara would still be alive: she and willow could hook-up with Kennedy. This for no other reason than to keep Tara in the mix,and Kennedy WAS kinda hot in my opinion.
3.Give Zander more Screen time at least in the finale! As you said he deserved MUCH MORE than he got.

I make no more explaination, and no excuses for this writing.

MIKEYMO

Friday, August 26, 2005 2:02 AM

I've been watching the FX reruns of season 7, and I'd forgotten just how pumped I was at the end of CwDP. I honestly thought season 7 would be the best of them all. And then the potentials arrived, and the speeches started. It kind of sounded like the B-story of The Zeppo with the gang stopping an apocalypse - all fakey and overblown, but not played for satire this time. Ugh.

1) no Giles red herring - either kill him off and have him be evil or just drop it
2) SOMEBODY drops the idiot ball and just says, "Hey, screw the First. All it can do is taunt. Let's just concentrate on the bringers and the orcs, er, Ubervamps."
3) Caleb comes into the picture sooner. Cool villain, but it just felt like desparation by the time he arrived.

Maybe a tweak to the ending: I'm thinking thay maybe they could have gone with something like this- Keep the same basic plan of empowering all the girls 'round the world, but the only way for it to work is if Buffy sacrifices herself.

PS I second the follow-through complaint as well.
PPS Rona was SO much worse than Kennedy. She should have been slapped upside the head by Showtime at the latest.

"Be ashamed to die before you have scored some victory for humanity." -- Horace Mann

BECKINSALE

Friday, August 26, 2005 2:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
As an aside, I am, apparently, the only Buffy fan who liked Kennedy.

No. I too liked Kennedy.

GROOSALUGG

Friday, August 26, 2005 6:22 PM

1. As someone else already said, more stand-alone episodes. There were too many in the second half of the season that were devoted to the whole "First-y circus" and the potentials where not much happened. It just served to point out how thin the overall arc was.

2. Fewer potentials, more Willow & Xander. I disagree with those who argue that S7 became the "Buffy and Spike Show." I don't think Spike got any more screen time than he did in seasons 5 or 6, but it seemed like he did because there was so much less of Xander, Willow, and Anya. And while on that topic, a better payoff for Spike's trigger and the whole disabling-of might've been nice. Three or four episodes--at least--were spent focused on it, making it seem to be this hugely important deal, and when he's finally de-triggered, we don't even get an "Oh darn, now I'll have to re-adjust my plan," from the First.

3. A two-part finale, with both parts written and directed by Joss, as he did with "Becoming" in S2 and "Graduation Day" in S3. Caleb is introduced in "Dirty Girls," ep. 18, which was a great episode and had me thinking "Okay, at least they're going to be able to salvage the final five eps and make them great." Then for the next three... nothing. Total filler. Just the writers and characters dragging their feet, waiting around for Joss to come in and deliver all the action and wrap everything up in the last 42 minutes. (And somewhere in those three filler eps, 19-21, maybe slip in an explanation, however lame it might've been, of why Caleb couldn't just march over to Buffy's house and kill them all right then.)

And not quite making my top 3 reasons but still too important to leave out: Give Anya's death the moment it deserved. We loved that character for four years, and then she was dead and gone and the scene had switched to something else before we could blink. If I hadn't accidentally been spoiled ahead of time and known she wasn't going to make it, I don't think I would've even registered what had happened the first time around. It just went by so fast.

So that's my list. I still enjoy the season, and continue to watch my DVDs, because it's still Buffy and therefore better than just about anything else to come along in the last ten years. But because they'd set such a high standard for themselves in the first six years, the many problems with S7, unfortunately, tend to stand out.

JOSSISAGOD

Saturday, August 27, 2005 4:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
As an aside, I am, apparently, the only Buffy fan who liked Kennedy.

I two liked Kennedy, I did not think she was whiny, Butch maybe but whiny NOT IN THE LEAST!

MIKEYMO

Monday, August 29, 2005 9:08 PM

The episode Get It Done was on FX today, and it reminded me why I disliked Kennedy so much. She got slapped around by the demon that was exchanged when Buffy went into ShadowPuppetLand. Spike trades blows with it and gets tossed through the ceiling. Yet Kennedy acts like she's more qualified to track the demon down, "We're trained!"

Annoying.

"Be ashamed to die before you have scored some victory for humanity." -- Horace Mann

MUGTWAINE

Sunday, September 11, 2005 2:18 AM

1) The writers would not have retroactively pretended Joyce was just the First trying to fool Dawn. Never before or since has the First exterted any physical force on the world, and never before or since has the First been in two places at once. That was NOT the First.

2) Dawn would have been a potential slayer, or at least something like it. Being made out of Buffy would surely have made her something special.

3) The First would have become corporeal at some point, probably as a result of all the potentials becoming slayers. After all, the slayer power is rooted in darkness, and when "the forces of darkness overrun the planet" the First will become corporeal, or something along those lines...

In fact, they really should just have used this alternate script for the finale: http://www.whedon.info/article.php3?id_article=731. I'm not sure whether it's authentic or not, but I AM sure that it's definitely superior to the finale we actually got (except for the Xander dying part)...

OPPYH

Monday, September 12, 2005 5:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by fray101:
Agree with pretty much everything said above but to clarify:

1. No potentials (which rules out Kennedy straight away)

2. As mentioned above, Buffy's wish brings Tara back ("look at my new shoes"! - ah, I'd have been in tears if that had happened).

So true. If the Buffy's wish episode had happened, it would have made S7 possibly the strongest Buffy season of all.

Willow + Tara=Love

Willow + Kennedy=(?) Still trying to figure it out. It may have been a lot of things, but none of them were any good.

GROUNDED

Monday, September 12, 2005 9:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
So true. If the Buffy's wish episode had happened, it would have made S7 possibly the strongest Buffy season of all.

One good episode does not a good season make ;)

DATALESS

Monday, September 12, 2005 2:11 PM

I think 'The First's' real plan was to have the potentials become Slayers and end all future slayers. With all Potentials now Slayers when all living slayers die there will be no more Slayers. Then when all the slayers come to help Angel and his crew everyone dies or is sucked into another dimension. All magic and demon energy is taken with it. Angel is the only demon left (or half demon anyway). Spike is still alive and human (thanks to Angel signing the Scroll in his blood.) Nina is human again, as is Oz. Everyone at the fight dies, except Spike and Angel. Spike moves on and eventually dies. Angel and Nina give it a go but he becomes obsessed with trying to find Buffy and the slayers. Eventually he goes crazy. The first just waits for its chance to mess with Angel making him bite a few people making them Vampires. Soon demons are everywhere. The first becomes corporeal. This happens about two hundred years after Buffy's Death. For the first time a new Slayer is awakened her name is Melaka Fray and she is the first potential since the death of Buffy Summers (as you can read in "Fray" The Dark Horse comicbook. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1569717516/qid=112653423
4/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-5956272-5591324?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) As Firefly tells us "The Earth got used up". It's still there but uninhabitable by humans. So as many humans as posible left earth and the rest died. It is now a demon breeding ground. Hell, just what the first wanted but it's pissed because its suck on earth with the rest of the monsters except for the Reavers of course. So I wouldn't change anything.

DIRTYBROWNCOAT

Monday, September 19, 2005 9:37 PM

Three things I'd change about Season 7?

Hmmm...

1. Make the First's plan a little bit more coherent. I mean, in the end, it just didn't make any sense. It wanted to destroy the Slayer line...okay, noble enough. But in the finale, it said something like "When my army outnumbers the number of humans on Earth, the scales will tip and I'll be corporeal"? WTF? What kind of wacky nonsense is that? If that was the case, I don't know why Buffy and the Scoobies were so worried; it doesn't seem like there could've been more than a couple hundred thousand Ubervamps in in the cave, but there are BILLIONS of humans on Earth.

2. Don't make Spike's insanity a "throwaway" thing. In the season premiere, I was STOKED to see crazy Spike. "Obviously," I thought to myself, "Spike's soul drove him insane. What a great way to make him different than Angel." Imagine my dissapointment, then, when I discovered that the only reason Spike was crazy was because the First had been torturing him in the basement. I would have much preferred to see Spike regain his sanity over the course of the season - taking him out of the basement would have made him more coherent, sure, but not completely cure him. I think mildly-crazy-Spike-on-the-way-to-recovery would have been much more interesting than what we got, made his soul more important, and made seeing "old" Spike again much more satisfying.

3. A little bit less focus. Some of you may think MORE focus was needed, but I mean in terms of the focus on The First story line. Too many episodes focused exclusively on The First, and they started focusing too early in the season. By the end of the year, we were exhausted by the First and the Potentials...if we had less "First-centric" episodes, we may have had a bit more coherent of a story arc.

Simon: You...you came for us.
Mal: You're on my crew.
Simon: Right. I guess I just didn't...you don't even like me.
Mal: You're on my crew. Why we still talking about this?
-Safe

DIRTYBROWNCOAT

Monday, September 19, 2005 9:41 PM

Quote:
With all Potentials now Slayers when all living slayers die there will be no more Slayers.

I would think that eventually, more Potentials would be born and become Slayers. If no more Potentials were born after Buffy's generation, there'd be pretty slim pickins when it came to choosing more Slayers.

The way I understood it was this: sure, Buffy decided to make all Potentials into Slayers, but other than that things continue much the same way: more girls are born with the potential to be Slayers, but the potential is fully realized right away.

Simon: You...you came for us.
Mal: You're on my crew.
Simon: Right. I guess I just didn't...you don't even like me.
Mal: You're on my crew. Why we still talking about this?
-Safe

KURAI

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 3:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CS:
-Return of Oz! He used to make Buffy so great, and I can just see a great Willow/Oz story- willow's gay but Oz loves her. It's been done before but I know it would have worked great on Buffy, the relationship would have been beautiful.

YES!!! I have wanted the return of Oz since he left. He was such a great character that they could have done so much more with. Or atleast put him on Angel...I would have liked that too.

1. I would have gotten rid of Kennedy. I just could not stand that girl and the only time I even found her slightly entertaining was when she was talking about Willow's Moulin Rouge habits...because I do that too on occasion, before they talked about it on the show.

2. The potentials in general, like everyone else has stated, needed to be tuned down a little. I didn't care for them at all...and I really couldn't buy it. I was bored with the majority of the season because of this.

3. Spike being more Spikeish and not so lovey dovey please stake me as a viewer.

OH...and the whole series finale in genral. To me, it was a let down. BUt thats just my two cents.

CAT1620RD

Saturday, October 8, 2005 11:06 PM

1. Anya...why...why Anya i happened to like Anya kill Xander Willow heck kill Buffy but not Anya!!!
2. Oh Kennedy please leave NOW i think they should have killed Kennedy heck i think she never should have shown up in the first place... actually while i am on the subject i want Oz back!
3. screw the first i want more Caleb! okay thats probably the Firefly fan talking but still I WANT MORE NATHAN FILLION!!!

LILKAYLEE29

Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:58 AM

Well, first I'd bring back Tara, and not gotten Willow involved with Kennedy.
That relationship to me seemed very forced and hurried to me.

Not killed Anya, and not poked Xander's eye out. (way too disturbing in my opinion).
Toned down the potentials, I mean I know it was the main agenda, but they seemed way too annoying and had too much camera time.

That's it I suppose, only maybe found a way so that the Spike raping Buffy in season 6 never happened so that Buffy could really be free to be in a truly loving relationship with Spike.

I'm a leaf on the wind....Watch how I soar.

Wash: Captain, don't you know kissin' girls makes ya sleepy? Mal: Sometimes I just can't help myself.

LILKAYLEE29

Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by luciddreams:

2. More stand alone episodes - Look at Storyteller, Selfless, and Conversations with Dead People. Notice what they have in common? Towards the end of s5 and s7 I felt the seasons suffered from too much focus on the finale's arc. The other seasons did better jobs of having stand alones without sacrificing the arcs. When the episodes became all about the big finales they just all blended together in my mind.

3. 2 hour season finale.

I agree with this. More variety in storylines. That's what made the past seasons work better is varying stories that shook things up most of the season, plus lots of crossovers didn't hurt too.

I'm a leaf on the wind....Watch how I soar.

Wash: Captain, don't you know kissin' girls makes ya sleepy? Mal: Sometimes I just can't help myself.

LILKAYLEE29

Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lamiasong:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jello:
So true, I hated Rona 1000 times more than Kennedy.
---
thank you- could not remember her name...
why couldnt she die instead of Anya, Amanda and all the other potentials...I mean[qoute] ding dong the witch is dead
sooo stupid. what was joss thinking when he allowed that monster into our homes? yes i know I am slightly irrational over this... any tips to get past this problem greatly appreciated but hopeful!

one big shiny family

I totally agree. I just wanted to beat Rona with a bunch of those Slayer weapons everytime she opened her mouth. She is the main reason that they all turned on Buffy. Otherwise they could have all talked it out calmly, but she wouldn't let it go because she didn't want to be there in the first place! I hate that character! Kennedy is my 2nd least favorite. And to think I used to hate Dawn.
lol Dawn was wonderful compared to those two.

Also to add to my last post... I also think that Willow and Xander needed more screen time. Especially Xander after Anya dies, it was like oops she's dead ....awwww no, show's over folks!!!

I'm a leaf on the wind....Watch how I soar.

Wash: Captain, don't you know kissin' girls makes ya sleepy? Mal: Sometimes I just can't help myself.

LETTHEMEATCAKE

Sunday, February 19, 2006 1:25 AM

1) Less Spike.
I love the peroxide head as much as anyone but I think this season shouldve been focused more upon Buffy's task wit the potentials.

2)2 hour finale
Chosen seemed a bit rushed and I think that there should have been a lot more Buffy/Willow/Xander time .

3)More fleshed out potentials
Speaks for itself.

CSERENITY

Monday, February 20, 2006 10:38 PM

1. Make Buffy and Sike together again, i mean like have 'i love you' at the end was sweet, but not enough for my romance meter.
2. no kennedy willow just NONONO. yuck bad. shame
3.MORE DAWN! its horrible no dawn how sad

cserenity

HYDRAGON

Sunday, March 19, 2006 4:47 AM

I'd much rather have a 3 things you'd change about Angel Season 5, but okay.

1. Less focusentral on the big plotline. I always loved those stand-alones that still had ultimate plotline stuff oging on in the background (For example, Season 2, even as Angel, Spike and Drusilla are planning their big plane, they're still fighting Werewolves, Der Kinderstod and Fish-People). They could have done that.

2. Cameos by Oz and Drusilla. I don't mean The First DISGUISED as Drusilla like she did (THE FIRST IS TOTALLY FEMALE), or Drusilla in a flashback. Do you realize we never saw her in real time again after Season 5? And Oz never appeared again after Season 4. I am, in fact, working on a fanfic about Oz, who seems to have settled down in Seattle.

3. BRING TARA THE HELL BACK! Come on! They bring everybody back! Why not Tara? Of course, in my Oz Fanfic, Tara does come back. As a ghost, yeah, but she'll still be back. Once I finish, anyways.

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:34 PM

Three things...hmmm...
1) Make Chosen a two-parter directed by Joss, instead of only one ep.

2) Have some more scenes for Xander.

3) ummmm....nuthin' more, I guess, I was pretty happy with the rest.

S7fan Chrisisall

STEVIL

Friday, August 25, 2006 9:24 PM

I agree with the making of SMG unfold her arms a bit more, and maybe perhaps saying less "mmm kays".
And apart from the obvious of seeing more of the core characters, maybe more andrew too????

MANICDEPRESSIVEMOUSE

Friday, August 25, 2006 11:03 PM

1.) Anya and Andrew: Their potential as the perfect duo came way too late. The wheelcahir fight; inspired. The series needed at least 20 more eps like Selfless and Storyteller.

2.) Potentials = Bad. 'Nuff Said

3.) Buffy had to die. She had to, and not just for all the "everybody-sucks-but-me" speechifying. She should have finally been given peace. And it's completely un-Joss to not let her die. Back to heaven and all that.

FLF

Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:06 PM

Well, seeing as how I'm a hopeless romantic....

1) Bring Tara back. Kill Kennedy. Happy Willow.

2) Don't kill Anya - that was so sad - and if you have to, could you not make more of a deal over it? It was a pathetic attempt at dying if you ask me.

3) (Possibly at the end of whenever Angel SHOULD have finished) Buffy and Angel back together. I know it could never happen - but it would have been nice. And as I said before - I'm a romantic.

Realistically though - I would have brought Tara back (or preferably - not have killed her at all) - she was the only one for Willow (die Kennedy - DIE) and Willow was a better character with her around (although her geeky days were also fun).

The potential slayers thing didn't work imho; the acting was poor - and it was like having many (even more annoying) Dawns.

I would also have liked more character development - particularly with Giles, Xander and Willow - they were the ORIGINAL scoobies, but it seems like they were just left to stagnate as characters over s7. Anya was also a tad too whiny (which on top of the potentials REALLY annoyed me) - she would have been better if Xander and Anya had married - even if there had been constant arguments or whatever.

Basically - s7 wasn't my favourite - too many slayers- -not enough fun.

Would just like to add - I liked s4 - though s2 and s5 are my faves.

Does it really matter as long as you're having fun?

CHRISISALL

Saturday, August 26, 2006 3:19 PM

FLF, are you the FLF I'm thinking of?

Fantastic Laughing Chrisisall

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Saturday, August 26, 2006 7:57 PM

I can only think of two things I would change.

1. Never make Season 7

2. Never make Season 6

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

Friday, September 1, 2006 3:42 PM

having just watched same time same place the other night, we could have had anya get it on with willow, she was so up for it. ok it may have confused xander a bit, but what the heck, woulda been much better than the kennedy travesty.

more old school giles, he was always off picking up girls and when he was there he wasn't that great.

more clem, can't have enough clem... and did he and andrew ever meet? imagine the double act they'd make

"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

22CLAWS

Wednesday, September 6, 2006 9:14 AM

I liked season seven. It's not perfect, but there are so many great episodes.

22

FLF

Wednesday, September 6, 2006 8:17 PM

of course i am - how many other FLF's u kno chris?
how've you been?

Vodka! Cheaper than botox - and it kills more muscles!

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, September 6, 2006 8:27 PM

This thread, and your dislike of 6 & 7 in particular, Finn, is what made me put off seeing them for so long. Maybe I was just prepared, but seven is equal to 3 for me now, not in overall quality, of course, but in the high points. Chosen and OMWF are my two favourite episodes.

Dark works for the Buffster Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Friday, September 8, 2006 5:47 PM

Good, long time no see, in the virtual sense. How's life across the pond?

His lateness Chrisisall

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, September 8, 2006 5:57 PM

I wish this were 3 things I could change about Buffy the series

Bring Oz back
NO dawn at all
NO potentials

and I really didnt like the Principal and Faith thing it felt forced.

I was disappointed in the "a boy broke my heart so I now I will be a lesbian" feel in the Willow/Tara thing. It would have been more interesting and less offensive if Oz stuck around and Willow found herself torn between the 2 loves.

But thats just me

----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

CHRISISALL

Friday, September 8, 2006 7:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

and I really didnt like the Principal and Faith thing it felt forced.

I was disappointed in the "a boy broke my heart so I now I will be a lesbian" feel in the Willow/Tara thing. It would have been more interesting and less offensive if Oz stuck around and Willow found herself torn between the 2 loves.

I disagree about Faith and the Principal, she can always use a good lesson

.

But I totally agree on your Willow/Oz/Tara take, that would've been great.

I must be one of the few that wasn't bugged by the Potentials...

Chrisisall, a brat

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, September 8, 2006 7:36 PM

I disagree about Faith and the Principal, she can always use a good lesson

.

But I totally agree on your Willow/Oz/Tara take, that would've been great.

I must be one of the few that wasn't bugged by the Potentials...

Chrisisall, a brat

I accept your disagreement cause it wuz funnee

and I accept your agreement cause great minds think alike

My beef with the potentials is (a) they (the actresses) couldn't - act and (b) if they did the "calling all the potentials up immediately at the end" thing, why didn't they just do that in the first place!

----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

CHRISISALL

Friday, September 8, 2006 7:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

if they did the "calling all the potentials up immediately at the end" thing, why didn't they just do that in the first place!

Cause changing the rules set down by men long ago takes power, and Willow was the first person any slayer could have used strong enough to do it, plus, Buffy was the first to even concieve that it might be done!

Sound right? Chrisisall

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