Blueprint conundrum or not

POSTED BY: ManiacNumberOne
UPDATED: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 20:55
VIEWED: 33969
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MANIACNUMBERONE

Wednesday, March 26, 2003 7:11 AM

Hi kids, as many of you know I have taken it upon myself to create a blueprint of Serenity, if possible. By possible, I don't mean that I may not be able to do it, I mean if the the ship actually does fit together (according to some master plan that we just don't know about) then I am going to figure it out. You may be saying isn't there a blueprint on the Gorram site? well, they have pictures and they have a blueishness, but no, they are definitely not a blueprint. I know you all don't know me, but I would like you to know that this is within my capabilities. And I look forward to it even after 8 hrs of sitting typing at a computer.
Anyway, the reason I am writing this time is I have entered a small conundrum that may or may not have been acknowledged already. In trying to diagram and set up blueprints for the ship, I have had to watch the episodes a lot. (what a chore!) In doing so I take advantage of ship camera shots, which are many, to get the info I need. Many of these shots, of course, are from the perspectives of different members of the crew. (that grammar felt wierd to me) When taking info from shots, when the camera is following River, I have found the layout to be unreliable, or rather inconsistent with what I thought I knew about the layout so far. I am wondering if it this was an accident that hopefully wouldn't be noticed, or if it was intended as a means to depict Rivers displacement.

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Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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NOOCYTE

Wednesday, March 26, 2003 7:36 AM

Maniac;

Took me a while to figure it out, but the interior layout appears to be consistent.

Re: River travel sequences: Are you referring to her wanderings in OiS? If so, the sequence seems to be as follows: Starts off in the dorm/commons/infirmery area, thence up a flight of steps by the infirmery, up to the corridor between the engine room and the mess (the same steps up which Book follows Mal at beginning of Train Job, while getting all Socratic on him).

From there, she walks toward the bow, through the mess (Book and St. Jayne), then forward to the bridge (Wash and Zoe snogging). Then back down some stairs to the upper catwalk on the forward bulkhead of the cargo hold, the steps---> hatch through which, for example, Wash goes when the "uncivilized" basketball game is interrupted at the beginning of Bushwacked (I believe the stairwell is opposite the upper airlock, on the port side, if you're facing forward). She then passes Mal and Inara on her way down to the forest...I mean cargo hold floor.

Thus does she make a full circuit of Serenity. This is, indeed a good example of how well-laid-out the ship is. Rather more vexing is the question of scale (see the "Serenity Layout" thread, where others and myself have had some to say on that score).

Hope this helps, and REALLY looking forward to seeing your handiwork!

Keep flyin'!

Department of Redundancy Department

NOOCYTE

Thursday, March 27, 2003 6:32 AM

ManiacNumberOne;

Typical Noocyte; blunder in with maximum excitement and minimum humility! Let me back up...are there areas in particular which you are having difficulty reconciling with the relationships among the sets and the exterior of the ship? Perhaps something which I too missed?

Also, what's your expertise that you should be able to undertake such a (to my primitive mind) daunting task as diagramming the Divine Ms. S? Are you in engineering or graphic design?

Keep flyin' (and share the wealth, when your designs are through, please!)!

Department of Redundancy Department

MANIACNUMBERONE

Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:49 AM

Hey Noocyte, I do have graphic design expertise. It's loads of fun. As to the River scene, I think I may have reconciled it. I do have another problem though. I am slightly off on a possible second hallway off from the top of the back set of stairs. (the set that starts at the door of the medical bay) When that staircase meets top of the hallway, (not just the top of the first set of stairs, but after it doglegs left and completes its' flight,) it turns both left and right. when it turns left, it turns left again and ends up in the engine room. but at the top o' the same stairs as just mentioned, when the hallway instead turns right, I am unsure if the hallway continues around a corner to the left after that, or if it just stops.

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Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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GROOVYAL

Thursday, March 27, 2003 4:41 PM

There has been an unreal tournament level built in course of the game to geek project. As it was constructed in close cooperation with the producers i'd say it is the most reallistic piece of info you can get.
I wounder if it is awailable somewhere...

TALLGUY

Thursday, March 27, 2003 5:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GroovyAl:
There has been an unreal tournament level built in course of the game to geek project. As it was constructed in close cooperation with the producers i'd say it is the most reallistic piece of info you can get.
I wounder if it is awailable somewhere...

From what they had published on the site when the show was put on hiatus it wasn't finished yet. Which is a real shame.

Bill
"We all know I'm the funny one."
"You ain't all that funny."

GROOVYAL

Thursday, March 27, 2003 7:41 PM

yeah right!
but as i got the idea the "architechture" was allready done there was still some retexturing to do.
But maybe the guy who did it finished it allready or even if he didn´t he could publish as an alpha-version for the community to complete it....
That would be somthing, now woudnt it?

RADIOJOE

Saturday, March 29, 2003 4:07 PM

If you get a set of blueprints, I'd love to offer whatever I can do in presentation to share on the web.

I gave up on the Firefly 03 and did a quick and dirty set for the Firefly 01 RPG I posted.

Link is at:

http://members.ispwest.com/radiojoe/firefly

----

The bible is very specific on the subject of killing, but it is a might hazy on the topic of kneecaps...

NOOCYTE

Saturday, March 29, 2003 7:28 PM

Hey Maniac. Very shiny that you have GD experience to bring to bear on this fun project. Busy day ahead, but I'll try to lend my modest visualization skills to the stairs question sometime this week-end. Cheers!

Department of Redundancy Department

MANIACNUMBERONE

Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:08 PM

Thanks for your help Noocyte. I have one very important thing to say about Serenity. That is one damn big ship. A lot bigger than I first expected.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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NOOCYTE

Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:30 PM

Yah, she's a mite bigger than I'd first thought. You see what I mean, then, about that shot in OiS?

Only makes you appreciate the mostrous scale of the Purple-belly Cruisers all the more, yes? As for the latter, apropos of nothing, they're pretty reminiscent of the Nostromo's ("Alien") refinery platform, eh?

As I say, hopefully tomorrow I'll have a chance to peruse a couple of eps in the evening, and see if I can be of any help on the stairway split conundrum; you've piqued my curiosity here!

Department of Redundancy Department

MANIACNUMBERONE

Sunday, March 30, 2003 7:59 AM

I know that I see the second hallway when Mal and Shepherd Book are going up the stairs. I forget which episode. Sorry. I will rewatch and figure it out.

As for the rest who are still waiting for a nice Serenity layout, be patient, I am 1/4 of the way done.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

NOOCYTE

Sunday, March 30, 2003 8:07 AM

Greetings, fellow nocturnal Browncoat! Pretty sure the snippet you want is from "Train Job," toward the begninning, just before Mal finds evidence of terrifying space monkeys in the engine room. Have at it!

And good luck with the other 3/4 of the project!

Keep Flyin'!

Department of Redundancy Department

MANIACNUMBERONE

Sunday, March 30, 2003 7:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Noocyte:
Greetings, fellow nocturnal Browncoat! Pretty sure the snippet you want is from "Train Job," toward the begninning, just before Mal finds evidence of terrifying space monkeys in the engine room.

I believe that you are right. So, what did you think about that hallway? I am still at a loss. Besides that though, I have progressed to 1/3 of the way done.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

NOOCYTE

Sunday, March 30, 2003 10:05 PM

Okay, so here's how it is... (sorry. Couldn't resist!).

When Mal and book are heading up that first flight of stairs by the infirmery, they are facing the starboard side. When the steps jog left, they are headed toward the bow. When they reach the top of the stairs, and turn left, they are walking to port. As far as I can see, there is only a wall to their right (starboard), when they reach the top of the stairs. Can't see if anything continues forward (bow), but I don't think so.

Further, when I look closely at some frame-by-frames, I've come to the conclusion that the spinning engine "heart" IS at the center of the spinning lights on the exterior. If you look closely, inboard of/concentric with the metal cowling/torus (on whose inboard side the spinning lights are located), the hull constricts much more sharply than I'd thought (try frame-by-framing on the ascent from the "little moon" before the theme break in "Train Job"). This would place the "heart" right around the middle of it. Of course, this means that the deck level is a bit further down from the dome top of the thorax pod than I'd thought, but not so far that it interferes with the cargo hold entrance to the shuttles. Incidentally, this would leave room for equipment of the life support, etc. variety.

Speaking of this last, it appears that the glowing tail pod is not accessible from any of the conventional crew corridors. I rather like this, as it speaks to "core containment." It would be fun to see Kaylee scrabbling around through access shafts in this section...both for the technical side, and for the opportunity to see our beloved Ms. Frye wriggling through a confined space Yet another reason why we NEED MORE FIREFLY!!!

I'm glad to have cleared this up for myself, as it was a minor vexation. Do let me know if it agrees with your perceptions as you look at the cited shots.

Isn't geek-dom shiny?!

Keep flyin'!

Department of Redundancy Department

BLUEHOOT

Monday, March 31, 2003 7:35 AM

If I sound totally stupid about this then just ignore me.

I'm just curious as if anyone has figured out how many crew quarters and guest quarters or rooms there are.

The guest dorms are off of that little lounge area right? In the first scene of "Jaynestown" where Simon and Kaylee are standing in the hall talking about cussing, the camera angle shows 6 sets of doors. and I seem to remember that in another ep (cant remember which) they did the opposite camera angle and at the top of the ramp there was two more sets of doors. We know that the 4 sets at the bottom and middle of the ramp (closest to the Lounge area, 2 on each side of the ramp) do not lead to 4 different rooms, except its 2 larger ones, because we have seen the inside of both Simon's and River's (River's I think used to be the Lawman's in "Serenity" and both S and R's are right across from each other...right?). The bed is on a platform and has a door in front of it.

So, at the top of the ramp, 2 more sets of doors that look the same as the bottom sets...are they more guest dorm rooms? Also, there are two ladders on either side of the ramp between the bottom and middle sets of doors...and above the very bottom set of doors, there is 2 more sets. More dorms? Ones that you have to climb the ladder to?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I wish I was a jellyfish because jellyfish dont pay rent.

ANND

Monday, March 31, 2003 5:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BlueHoot:
If I sound totally stupid about this then just ignore me.

I'm just curious as if anyone has figured out how many crew quarters and guest quarters or rooms there are.

If you read the script for the pilot (on buffyscripts), there's a metion that the passenger capacity is 12 (from the scene where Kaylee is advertising for passengers). It didn't make it into the show.

As for crew quarters, I believe there are five. 3 on one side of the corridor, two on the other. This comes mostly for OiS, where they show 5 doors locking when Early locks everyone in. Jayne's bunk is opposite Kaylee's (from the last scene in WarStories).

Ann

BLUEHOOT

Monday, March 31, 2003 7:11 PM

I havent read any scrips, sorry.

I wish I was a jellyfish because jellyfish dont pay rent.

MANIACNUMBERONE

Monday, March 31, 2003 9:33 PM

I heard about that 12 passenger quarters too, but as of yet, I have only, for sure, found 8 of them. As for crew quarters, I believe there are 5, as you said, 2 on one side of the hall, 3 on the other side. (If you are looking from the mess hall towards the bridge, Kaylee and Mal are on the starboard side, Jayne and Zoe/Wash on the port side.) I am fairly certain that Jayne's room is the middle one one the port side, and that Mal's room is directly across from his, not Kaylee's. Kaylee's is next to Mal's, on the starboard side, and her room is closest to the bridge. I have yet to discover if Zoe/Wash's room is the one closest to the bridge on the port side, or furthest. I am of the impression though that it is the closer one, since that would allow faster access to the bridge for Wash.
I am 50% complete.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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BLUEHOOT

Monday, March 31, 2003 10:27 PM

12 passengers doesnt necessarily mean 12 separate rooms. Some may be doubles. So I suspect that if the two that I mentioned earlier, the ones where you climb up the ladder to slide open the door, those are probably singles with smaller space and a smaller bed. The ones that Simon and River have are probably doubles...a bit bigger bed maybe and a larger amount of general space (since they have 2 sets of doors each).

I wish I was a jellyfish because jellyfish dont pay rent.

TALRIUS

Tuesday, April 1, 2003 5:26 AM

Okay I'm gonna insert some things here.

1. There are two doors on the bridge of Serenity. Each flanking the pilot's chairs. Were the port side door leads is anyone's guess. Check me, Out of Gas when Mal wakes up on the bridge from the Walden answering Serenity's distress call. and Objects in Space during the conversation about River.

2. The starboard stairwell that leads up from the cargo bay, to presumably the fore corridor has a room between it and the fore corridor. Check 'Our Mrs Reynolds' during Vera's introduction look behind Mal and you'll see.

3. There are two doors in the cargo bay on the top catwalk. That mysterious door has a twin on the port side. I can only find one scene with this in it. Shindig, when Mal and Inara are drinking above the cattle.

4. Behind that said door there appears to be a hallway running from port to starboard. Bushwhacked Inara enters the cargo bay through this mysteious door.

5. I want to know where the rooom Dobson goes to in Serenity to get his luggage. It seems to be in the passenger dorm.

BLUEHOOT

Tuesday, April 1, 2003 6:28 AM

my answer to number 5:
I also think its in the passenger dorms because if you look at the door style (yellowish and sliding, it gives a glimpse of it). but it might be one of those at the very top of the ramp (that I mentioned before)...they probably use those for general storage when no passengers are in them.

As for the rest of the mystery doors...and there are a lot...I wonder if there are mystery prizes behind them all. lol

I wish I was a jellyfish because jellyfish dont pay rent.

NOOCYTE

Tuesday, April 1, 2003 7:19 AM

I think I can speak to #1. If you look at the FOX official site, under FEATURES ---> "Geek to game project," and look at the "hallway concept" renderings, you'll see the doors from the hallway. The main door, atop the steps is on the starboard (facing forward) side, and nothing but blank hull on the port. I wonder if the door on the inside of the bridge isn't just an access port to circuitry, etc?

Best I can do for now, as I can't really go check the disks at the moment. If I see any different when I can actually check the "canon," I'll post my $.01

Keep Flyin'!

Department of Redundancy Department

HAPLO721

Tuesday, April 1, 2003 6:14 PM

A couple of points:

1. The Serenity set consists of 2 pieces, the upper part of the ship, and the lower part. Each is completely self-contained, so you could actually do a cinematic tour of the ship, and only have to cut once- when going from one level to the other.

2. In OMR, when Saffron seals off the bridge, Kaylee says "She didn't just lock it, she fused it to something. Both entrances." However, we only see her fuse one door, and she runs into Inara immediately afterward. It's possible that the second entrance is via the room that the ladder between the consoles leads, and that she sealed it BEFORE coming onto Wash.

Early: You ever been raped, Kaylee?
Kaylee: You know, it's funny you should mention that... ever heard of the Fox network?

ANND

Tuesday, April 1, 2003 6:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
I am fairly certain that Jayne's room is the middle one one the port side, and that Mal's room is directly across from his, not Kaylee's.

At the end of War Stories, during the scene in the kitchen, Jayne can be clearly seen coming up the ladder from his bunk, the last one on the port side, closest to the bridge. I think that would put Wash and Zoe in the middle, accross from Mal.

Ann

MANIACNUMBERONE

Tuesday, April 1, 2003 7:26 PM

I like your assistance. I saw what you meant at the end of war stories, but danged if I haven't seen Jayne pop out of a different room too. I will let you know when I find it again. It's a good thing I am waiting until the last to label the rooms.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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WERESPAZ

Tuesday, April 1, 2003 7:48 PM

Quote:

It's possible that the second entrance is via the room that the ladder between the consoles leads, and that she sealed it BEFORE coming onto Wash.

Not just a possibility, but that's where it is. If you look down the hallway with the crew quarters you'll see stairs leading up to the bridge, and a door next to it, and I seem to remember seeing some more consoles like the ones on the bridge in there, but that's not the point. I watched that scene specifically looking for more info about that room and the other entrance to the bridge, but they show here pulling the strip off her dress and fusing the door, then they cut to her encounter with Inara. It seems to me that she may have either fused the second door in the same fashion after the first (I don't think she would've gotten away with that down below without Wash noticing, it seemed to make a fair amount of noise, flame and smoke), or perhaps she locked it from the inside via a panel at the pilot's console, then cut the power to the whole assembly. Just a thought, I just wonder why they didn't make it more clear what she did to the second (downstairs) door.

-The SpAz

MANIACNUMBERONE

Tuesday, April 1, 2003 8:42 PM

I agree Spaz, that staircase is definitely where the second cockpit entrance is. It makes you think twice about the size of the ship huh? If the cockpit of the ship is at least two levels, which it is, then we are looking at an inside height of around 16 to 18 ft. That doesn't include ares in between the levels for structure, or the outside casing of the ship. All those things included make the height of just the cockpit more than 20 ft.

I was going to post and say that I had lost my mind because the layout for the passenger quarters appeared to be changing, but I think I am not crazy (much) after all. It appears that some of the passengers may have been changing rooms over the course of the show. It's either that, or the camera angles are messing with me. At the end of Safe when Jayne is dumping the doctor's stuff back on his bunk and he comes out of the room, he appears to be coming from the rear of the ship, but from what I had found out earlier, the doctor's room is definitely starboard side.
It's great! I keep watching for little things I missed before, and I am finding whole new areas to the ship that I never thought existed. That scene at the end of Safe with Simon and Mal shows another set of stairs behind the medical bay that I had previously never seen. Shiny.
Also, when Book finds River "fixing" his Bible, River is at the table in the mess hall, and Book appears out of a dark corner on the forward starboard side of the mess hall, with tray in hand, as though he were the one to have just appeared in the mess hall from some other entrance on that side. River had apparently had been sitting at the table for some time doing her "fixing". So where does this other entrance or area lead? And if it isn't another entrance, then the only possible solution is that it is some sort of very dark pantry that Book had been hanging out in, preparing his tray of food, while River came into the mess hall, (quietly) and sat at the table and laid out all of her papers. I don't like that explanation though. It doesn't seem right somehow.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

KAYTHRYN

Tuesday, April 1, 2003 10:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Manicnumberone:
At the end of Safe when Jayne is dumping the doctor's stuff back on his bunk and he comes out of the room, he appears to be coming from the rear of the ship, but from what I had found out earlier, the doctor's room is definitely starboard side.

Not that I've been paying as much attention to detail like the rest of you, but here’s what I figured. In the Pilot Dr. Tam was given his guest quarters, he put his things away, and shortly after craziness ensued and the girl in the box was discovered. Later that night he tucked her in to bed- his bed. Simon found out he was allowed to stay, and he probably stayed up all that night or perhaps fell asleep in a chair in his room while River slept. The next day all kinds of adjustments had to be made- and River was given her own room, directly across from her brothers (Simon didn’t move because all of his things were already unpacked in his room whereas River didn‘t even have the proverbial “clothes off her back“ that would need moving).

-------------------------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

MANIACNUMBERONE

Wednesday, April 2, 2003 7:31 AM

What you say is true Kaythryn, yet my point is a different one than I think you addressed. Even though Simon's room is aft (to the rear) of River's, in the passage in Jaynestown, that I mentioned before, Jayne is walking down a hallway that runs fore to aft when he exits Simon's room. If he had exited Simon's room where I believe it to be, then he should have been walking down a hallway that runs right to left (starboard to port.)

The scene in Jaynestown at the very end shows that when Jayne leaves Simon's room, the stairway which goes upstairs is almost directly in front of him, and a little to the right, and Jayne could see up the stairs. If he had been coming from the doctor's room, then those stairs would have been on his extreme right, and he wouldn't have been able to see up them, he would only have been able to see the side of them.

So, this brings up a problem in my diagram. I am trying to be as accurate as possible. I thought I had found the solution to the problem, in the scene right after that. Simon said to the Mal, "I've moved him to his room." referring to the shot Book. I misheard it the first 2 times as, "I've moved into his room." They are close sounding, really. So stop making that face. Anyway, that didn't solve the problem. Who wants to solve it for me? If there are no takers, don't worry, I'll eventually figure it out, it may just take me a little longer.

Status: 55%

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

MANIACNUMBERONE

Thursday, April 3, 2003 8:53 AM

I was wrong about that gorram door. I think that I need a little more closer looks at the crew quarters that I haven't already checked out. just gotta take em one at a time.
----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

SUCCATASH

Friday, April 4, 2003 5:18 AM

That little piece of info put me over the 60% complete mark.

The suspense is killing me!

NOOCYTE

Friday, April 4, 2003 6:05 AM

Agreed! Having watched (and, I hope, helped) the ideas behind this project evolve, I've been growing increasingly stoked.

Indeed, an argument could be made --should the gear and wares be available-- for purdifying these schematics and posting them in a form suitable for hi-qual color printing. Might make a dandy little poster...

Then, Maniac, you could vie with TRS80 for the longest thread, with the most uses of the word, "shiny!"

Good luck!

Department of Redundancy Department

MANIACNUMBERONE

Friday, April 4, 2003 8:33 AM

I hope that my work is not all in vain. I am also looking forward to being done.
Thanks for your support everybody. Well, it's 1:30 a.m. here. I just got home from 8 hrs of data entry, and now I am stoked to work on this project. I love Firefly. I just love it.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

ANND

Sunday, April 6, 2003 10:12 PM

I've been thinking lately about the second entrance to the bridge. I don't think it's the door off the foredeck (the gangway that the crew quarters open off of). I just doesn't make sense to ever go in that door, because the stairs to the other entrance are right next to it. My theory is that there's an entrance to the lower bridge that connects with the catwalks on the second level, near the shuttles. In OiS, they leave Inara's shuttle and then end up coming up the ladder from the lower Bridge. Maybe it's below the foredeck, running between the crew quarters.

Ann

NOOCYTE

Sunday, April 6, 2003 10:43 PM

Hmmm... I don't know that there would be enough room between the crew quarters for a proper corridor...maybe some kind of access crawlway, but nothing the likes of Inara would deign to scramble through if an alternative existed. The quarters are actually surprisingly roomy, and probably extend inboard for some distance, probably even sharing walls beneath the corridor's floor. Plus, I don't think Serenity's bridge module has enough vertical extent for a door on the upper level of the cargo deck to be able to lead to a corridor making a bee-line for the ship's 'head.' Almost certainly, the door to port of the staircase to the bridge leads to an equipment bay, or computer mainframes, or what-have-you, just beneath the bridge, which is where the staircase on the inside of the bridge also leads.

Still, it is useful to think outside the box like this; it stimulates conversation and often exposes hidden assumptions which turn out not to be tenable. And, hopefully, it'll help Maniac with the Project. Thoughts?

Department of Redundancy Department

NOOCYTE

Monday, April 7, 2003 3:27 PM

By the way, I know that the "scale" conversation died down a while ago, but I thought I'd add something. Just watched "Bushwacked" again last night. All I can say is "duh." That long pull-back when Simon and River are EVA to hide from the Purple-Bellies is IMO a perfectly to-scale representation (actually, the Feds visible through the window are composited into the frame a tad too big, but Simon and River's size relative to Serenity seems right on the money (as compared to Mal and River in OiS, who are half-again too large). Just thought I'd throw that in the mix.

Keep flyin'!

Department of Redundancy Department

MANIACNUMBERONE

Monday, April 7, 2003 6:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Noocyte:
Hmmm... I don't know that there would be enough room between the crew quarters for a proper corridor...maybe some kind of access crawlway, but nothing the likes of Inara would deign to scramble through if an alternative existed. The quarters are actually surprisingly roomy, and probably extend inboard for some distance, probably even sharing walls beneath the corridor's floor. Plus, I don't think Serenity's bridge module has enough vertical extent for a door on the upper level of the cargo deck to be able to lead to a corridor making a bee-line for the ship's 'head.' Almost certainly, the door to port of the staircase to the bridge leads to an equipment bay, or computer mainframes, or what-have-you, just beneath the bridge, which is where the staircase on the inside of the bridge also leads.

I would tend to agree with your general assessment about the door portside of the stairs leading to the bridge. I think that it is indeed the second entrance to the bridge. I am unsure of the exact dimesions behind that door, but I can extrapolate. I don't think it precludes a passageway between crew quarters though. (Although I believe there isn't one either.) But from what I have seen, the stairs going down to crew quarters are almost flush against the wall. That woud leave plenty of room for a corridor underneath the corridor that we just haven't seen. Serenity is much bigger than most would expect. I am getting closer to a finished layout. 70% complete.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

NOOCYTE

Friday, April 11, 2003 4:45 AM

Pardon the bump.

Just checking in with ManiacNumberOne on the goings-on in the Visualization Department. Godspeed!

Also, I had a thought about the space under the forward corridor floor. I'd got turned around (me and my pesky spatial skills...just a slight parietal lesion, doc; no need for the holo-imager) and imagined the rooms stretching out inboard of the hatch/ladder. You're right that there ought to be enough room for a hallway. But I agree that there probably isn't one.

It occurs to me that a whole lot of electronic cabling, ducts, etc. would have to connect with the rest of the ship from the bridge (not to mention plumbing from the Murphy Loos to reclamation [a notion which would argue against a good reception for chocolate frosting on a cake...sorry ]!), even factoring in 500-odd years of tech miniaturization. This space is really the only logical place for it...possibly acessed by lifting up the grates on the corridor floor.

More on scale (ah, the male preoccupation with size... ) do folks have thoughts on my belief that the pull-back (River/Simon EVA) shot from Bushwhacked is a pretty bang-on illustration of Serenity's scale? Is anyone else slavering messily and embarassingly at the prospect of seeing those exteriors from "Trash" (see, as he deftly avoids the spoiler!)?!?

Anyway, keep flyin'!

Department of Redundancy Department

MANIACNUMBERONE

Friday, April 11, 2003 9:35 AM

Well Noocyte, and everyone else, I have come to a few conclusions about Serenity, and they have led me to believe that I am 85% complete. I wish I knew more about the ship, but what I do have, I will be posting soon. I have a few more hrs of work before that though, which translates into a few days...so be as patient as you have been already and soon you will be somewhat rewarded I hope.

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Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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KNIGHTNAVRO

Friday, April 11, 2003 6:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Noocyte:
More on scale (ah, the male preoccupation with size... ) do folks have thoughts on my belief that the pull-back (River/Simon EVA) shot from Bushwhacked is a pretty bang-on illustration of Serenity's scale? Is anyone else slavering messily and embarassingly at the prospect of seeing those exteriors from "Trash" (see, as he deftly avoids the spoiler!)?!?

I've tried to figure out just how long/wide/tall Serenity is, but she seems to change in size from episode to episode. My methods aren't exactly scientific (they consist of measuring a person standing neaar Serenity then measuring Serenity, but I can get a length anywhere from 60-100 meters. My pick for the best shot to establish scale is the shot in Train Job where Serenity rises from the crater in the teaser.

Taking a look at Bushwhacked...
From that shot, I'd say Serenity is about 150m long. That's only an eyeball estimate, so I could be off. I had forgotten that shot; thanks for pointing it out.

MANIACNUMBERONE

Friday, April 11, 2003 7:51 PM

I have 3 small problems before I can post what I have finished.

First, the hallway between the engine room and mess hall has proven to be a small problem. In different scenes, I have seen the hallway that leads off the main hallway appear in different positions. For example...

When, after Kaylee tells the crew about Rivers' prowess with a gun and she and Simon are about to kiss in the hallway in question, it appears that the offshoot hallway is right next to the door to the mess hall...because Book comes right around a corner out of the mess hall to interrupt them. Yet, in an earlier episode, when Mal hits Simon for calling him an Alliance sympathizer, the offshoot hallway is not where previously mentioned (right next to the doorway of the mess), instead it is halfway down the main hall. Feel free to help out here.

Second, I am having trouble reconciling the exact position and number of passenger quarters. I have 2 potential scenarios in mind. One with quarters in a pyramid setup on each side of the ship (12 rooms,) another with one room on top of another (8 rooms.) Any help there would also be appreciated.

Third, there are some doors that exist that go to places I haven't seen yet. Those will have to remain as undetailed areas.

Stuck on 85%

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

TALLGUY

Friday, April 11, 2003 9:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by KnightNavro:

I've tried to figure out just how long/wide/tall Serenity is, but she seems to change in size from episode to episode. My methods aren't exactly scientific (they consist of measuring a person standing neaar Serenity then measuring Serenity, but I can get a length anywhere from 60-100 meters. My pick for the best shot to establish scale is the shot in Train Job where Serenity rises from the crater in the teaser.

As an overall measurement of our girl, I'd say that's not a great shot. My reason is because there is so much distortion because of the perspective of the shot. It might give you an allright estimate of the size of the cockpit, but the cargo bay on back would be distorted.

Unless you're talking about the long shot and not the one of Mal & Co standing in front of her.

Also (and I have NO verification on this whatsoever) I THINK they rebuilt (or at least modified) the model of Serenity after the pilot. I don't have anything handy, but her underside is much longer (and more consistant with the interior) in later eps (Safe being a great example) than in Serenity or any of the footage FROM Serenity used in later episodes.

Bill
"We all know I'm the funny one."
"You ain't all that funny."

KNIGHTNAVRO

Friday, April 11, 2003 10:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TallGuy:
As an overall measurement of our girl, I'd say that's not a great shot. My reason is because there is so much distortion because of the perspective of the shot. It might give you an allright estimate of the size of the cockpit, but the cargo bay on back would be distorted.

Unless you're talking about the long shot and not the one of Mal & Co standing in front of her.

That's the one I'm thinking of. I imagine perspective is a major problem with my attempts, but I'm not going to break out a calculator and start going through trig formulas I can barely remember. It's best to choose shots where the characters are standing very close to the ship. I've looked at a couple of the shots where they are leaving through the main cargo doors, since that's about as close as you can get.
I figured it would give a decent picture of at least the dimentions of the cargo bay. If you can nail down the dimentions of one prominint part of the ship, there's a great shot of Serenity toward the end of the episode that can be used to scale the rest of the ship (or you could use some of the pics floating aroudnd this site or...).

TALRIUS

Sunday, April 13, 2003 3:37 AM

Let me not help you Maniac.

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
First, the hallway between the engine room and mess hall has proven to be a small problem. In different scenes, I have seen the hallway that leads off the main hallway appear in different positions.

I don't see what you mean here. It looked the same length to me, but I could be wrong. I'll have to check and get back to you on that.

Quote:
Second, I am having trouble reconciling the exact position and number of passenger quarters. I have 2 potential scenarios in mind. One with quarters in a pyramid setup on each side of the ship (12 rooms,) another with one room on top of another (8 rooms.) Any help there would also be appreciated.

It appears to be 8 rooms. One stacked on another. The original script said Serenity could hold 12 passangers. However that doesn't mean there are 12 rooms.

Yet go back and see Jaynestown. The opening scene with Simon and Kaylee talkin' about cursing. There will be a ariel shot of the dorm from the ladders in the back. If you look over Simon and River's bunks (Where Kaylee and Simon are talking.) you'll see that the second level dorm pods don't have two shoji doors, just one.

Confused yet?

Quote:
Third, there are some doors that exist that go to places I haven't seen yet. Those will have to remain as undetailed areas.

Stuck on 85%

Yeah, I know. There are two doors flanking either
side of the food containers on the port side of the galley. Across the galley next to the counter there appears to be a room back there too. There are two doors on the top tier of the cargo bay against the back wall that lead some where. (Inara leaves this in Bushwhacked. All we know is that it runs Starboard to Port.)There is a room just across from the infirmary. (Book leaves this room in Serenity when Simon races to the infirary.) The dorm has ladders leading to no where. There is a space behind the Infirmary. And last but not least the mysterious room below the bridge. I think I've adressed all of them?

So yeah there is a whole hell of a lot of our precious Serenity that's still unknown.

KNIGHTNAVRO

Sunday, April 13, 2003 5:44 PM

It may seem like a cop-out, but some of those mysterious door may not lead anywhere important. They may be for maintnence and to access the ship's systems. Of course, if you see anybody coming from one of these doors, they probably aren't maintnence, but it could explain a couple.

And I'm leaning toward 8 passenger dorms, but there's no way to be sure.

ZENCAT

Sunday, April 13, 2003 7:11 PM

delurking...

Reading this thread with enthusiasm - I've been waiting for Serenity blueprints since the beginning. Thanks for undertaking this project! I can't wait to see the finished product!

I have nothing, alas, to add to logistics of the layout, but there's something I'm including in the Serenity in my head, because I think it's utterly cool. It's a system that converts waste (including anything organic, like *ahem* human waste) into fuel oil, carbon, minerals, water, and harmless gas. Whatever reclaimed resources Serenity couldn't use, the crew could sell - there have to be backwater places that use oil for fuel, carbon's useful, and the minerals are good fertilizer. It would be a steady, though perhaps small, income stream. And the machine is small enough to tuck neatly underneath a corridor or somewhere. It's the perfect thing to have aboard a ship like Serenity - rather than dumping waste into the void, convert it into something useful/salable. It's not sci-fi, either - the machine exists already and is in use. If you're interested in how it works, check out the latest issue of Discover mag, or online at changingworldtech.com. (No, this is not an advertisement - but when these guys go public, I'm buying stock.)

I'm such a tech geek.

KAYTHRYN

Sunday, April 13, 2003 9:51 PM

I’m posting this on a few threads because I don’t quite remember what thread this discussion started at.

Alrighty- this is for you fans out there who are trying to figure out Serenity’s dimensions... or anybody else who‘d like to look. I’ve set up a little web page, or site, or whatcha thingy, with some screen caps of Serenity. If everything goes according to plan more pictures ( interior shots of Serenity, and characters) will be up soon. If you’ve got some nice pictures of Serenity that I don’t have up, you can e-mail me and I’ll try to add them in too.

Here's the address-
http://moonhopper.0catch.com/Serenity%20page1/11.txt

P.s. I apologize in advance for the remedial looking page and any errors- I tried to teach myself html a few days ago and so far it’s not going so well.

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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

LJB064

Monday, April 14, 2003 4:12 AM

Maniac:

On your first question, I think Book is coming around the corner from the Mess-Engine Room corridor, not directly from the Mess. Everything I have been able to find places that spur corridor (connecting to the "back stairs") smack dab in the middle of the Mess-Engine Room corridor. I think you're safe if you put it there.

On the question of the passenger dorm rooms, I spent a lot of time this weekend looking at eps to try to figure this out. The position and orientation of the bay holding the passenger rooms has been bugging me for a long time. This weekend, I realized that there are actually two bays of passenger rooms, running backward to port and starboard at angles about 30 degress from the centerline.

The starboard bay (where River and Simon have their rooms) has two ladders midway down (to serve upper berths). This is the one we usually see. I believe it has a total of seven rooms.

The port bay (where Book's room is) only has a ladder next to the inboard wall. (In both cases, I am not counting the ladders that run up the walls at the end of the bays). I believe the port bay has five rooms - which would give us our magic number of 12.

Slap me if I'm behind the curve and you guys already have all this.

If by chance this is a new thought, I'll be happy to give support. As a quick start, I'd say look at (i) the beginning of The Train Job when Book tells Mal that he considers Simon to be brave, and (ii) the spot toward the end of Jaynestown when River says "keep walkin' Preacher Man" - both give an establishing shot showing that the dorms are accessed by going through a wide archway at the back of the common area. Just beyond the archway, on the midline of the ship, is a louvered wall, sometimes backlit. The two bays run back on either side of that. The best placing sequences are (i) in Jaynestown, when River brings back the pages from Book's Bible - she walks aft along the port wall, and then veers further to her right to reach his room (first outboard room in the port bay), and (ii) in Bushwhacked, when Inara comes down the back stairs and veers left (to Starboard aft) to go to River's room (first one behind the outboard ladder in the starboard bay). You also get a good placing shot right down the starboard bay when Mal calls Zoe to the bridge when the Reaver ship first shows up in Serenity.

Keep Flyin'

Birdman

NOOCYTE

Monday, April 14, 2003 11:29 PM

LJB064 (??);

I had the same impression of the aft Spur corridor (good nomenclature). Pretty much dead center between the mess and the engine room.

As for the passenger dorms, your description makes heaps of sense, and I'll be looking at those sections of the eps with new eyes. Actually, this portion of the ship has always been a bit of a cypher for me, which is why I haven't really weighed in on the dorm conversation. Thanks for the description!

Keep flyin'!

Department of Redundancy Department

MANIACNUMBERONE

Tuesday, April 15, 2003 8:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LJB064:
Maniac:

On the question of the passenger dorm rooms, I spent a lot of time this weekend looking at eps to try to figure this out. The position and orientation of the bay holding the passenger rooms has been bugging me for a long time. This weekend, I realized that there are actually two bays of passenger rooms, running backward to port and starboard at angles about 30 degress from the centerline.

about this...you are right, there are 2 passenger bays, but I think perhaps only Book's bay is running at the angle you suggest. If the other hallway/bay is at an angle, it is much less than that.

Quote:
The starboard bay (where River and Simon have their rooms) has two ladders midway down (to serve upper berths). This is the one we usually see. I believe it has a total of seven rooms.

... I agree that the ladders serve a set of rooms above Simon and River's rooms, but I don't see where you get the number 7. If I am creative with the actual lengths of rooms, Simon and River can each have about an 8' by 8' room. that could leave room enough on the starboard side of each of there rooms for one more slightly smaller room, and for 1 room above above each of their rooms (as you say accessed by the ladders) Maybe I am a little lost here, but that is only six rooms right?

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

LJB064

Tuesday, April 15, 2003 3:39 PM

Maniac:

Please don't hold me to the number of degrees of offset, but I'm pretty sure that the starboard bay is angled (i.e., that it does not run directly fore-aft, or directly port-starboard. I'm working from memory, here, but as support, I'd suggest: (i) the scene I mentioned previously where Zoe is called to the bridge in Serenity (just as she mounts the stairs, the camera is angling back into the starboard bay, showing that someone standing in the common area and looking across the ship into the "back right corner" would be looking straight down that bay), (ii) at the beginning of Jaynestown, the shot looking directly out from that bay points into the "front left corner" of the common area (Debchan's site has some nice screen caps from Jaynestown that show this scene clearly), and (iii) there's a great sequence in Bushwhacked, when the "survivor" is in the infirmary - Kaylee and Inara are talking, and the first shot is out through the infrimary window at Kaylee. If you look over her shoulder, you're looking right down the port bay (angling away to port aft) (Debchan has a great screencap of that, too). Then the camera angle shifts to where Inara is, and you're looking, again, from the middle of the common area, past the bottom of the back stairs, and right down the starboard bay, angling back to starboard.

There are also a couple of great pan shots that begin looking through the windows of the infirmary and then pan right, ending in the starboard bay. I believe one is at the end of The Train Job, when Simon is mending Mal's shoulder. They start talking about River and the pan shot brings us to her room, where she is chanting about the blue hand guys.

Incidentally, that shot (and there is another, almost identical, sequence in another ep, but I'm forgeting now which one) shows some kind of a doorway in behind the back stairs. Looks like it enters a room that runs directly to starboard and has two rows of lockers (or electrical boxes) on the left side.

I haven't done anything with scaling, or estimation of interior dimensions vs. exterior, and I know that anything that would dictate a widening internally at that spot (where the exterior is probably tapering toward the tail) is a problem for you, but that's how I see it. I think the bays are arranged symmetrically, relative to the midline of the ship.

Here's how I get seven rooms in the starboard bay: The inboard and outboard walls in that bay are the same. Each has 2 sets of 2 screens/sliders at flat floor level. The ladder goes up between them. Each also has one set of two sliders on a second level, above the first floor sliders that are closest to the open end of the bay. Above the other floor-level sliders, there is a ventilation grid. Also, on both the inboard and outboard walls, there is a fourth set of sliders at a kind of mezzanine level at the closed end of the bay, where the floor slopes up.

We know that River's room is in the outboard wall, accessed by the floor level sliders just behind the ladder. We also know that her room is only as wide as that one set of sliders (see, especially, Bushwhacked). So - her room does not extend behind the other floor-level sliders, or behind the mezzanine sliders, so each of them must be a separate room. Add the lone second level room, and that gives you four rooms in the outboard wall.

The analysis for the inboard wall starts with the same four sets of screens. But we know that Simon's room is bigger - it takes up the space behind both floor-level slider sets on the inboard side. You can see this when Jayne returns Simon's belongings in Safe, and in other spots. However, Simon's room does not extend into the space behind the mezzanine sliders (there's a bulkhead behind Simon's bed). So - I'm positing that there's a small room behind the mezzanine sliders (possibly where Dobson went to get his guns?). Add Simon's room, and the one above, and we have three inboard rooms - for a total of seven in the starboard bay.

While I'm on this, let me say why I think there are five rooms in

MANIACNUMBERONE

Tuesday, April 15, 2003 9:16 PM

That was like reading a book. I will have to go back and reread that again. As for posting sketches... just put them somewhere, anywhere on the web, then you can link to it here.

Dang, it seems like you've spent as much time on this as I have. Good work LJB.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

LJC

Tuesday, April 15, 2003 9:46 PM

Mal and Wash walk up the stairs from the area *below* the bridge into the bridge at one point (as opposed to walking up the stairs from the coridoor where the crew quarters are)--I can't recall the episode (I just marathonned the whole show over the week-end). And we see those stairs between the two consoles (the left one, which i assume is for a co-pilot, and the right one, which is Wash's) leading downstairs to whatever is below teh bridge clearly in a numebr of shots--such as when Kaylee is working under the console in the beginning of "Train Job" (the "was there a terrible brawl?" scene).

Hope this helps some!

--
Some take the high road. Some take the low road.
And some just go screaming down the highway, dropping flaming bits of wreckage.

MANIACNUMBERONE

Wednesday, April 16, 2003 8:16 AM

You know I hadn't noticed that cord... very helpful. Thanks LJB064.

...and LJC, if you have any info on the area underneath those stairs leading towards the back of the ship that would be helpful. My ep's aren't super high res so I can't tell, but maybe when Kaylee is laying on her back fixing under the port bridge control panel, you can see through the grating she is on to the level below???

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

LJB064

Wednesday, April 16, 2003 4:39 PM

Thanks for your comment. Sorry for the lengthy post, but I hope it helps. My wife and I have been saying for months how helpful it would be if someone could just draw a good map of Serenity.

Unfortunately, I have to make a couple of corrections to my magnum opus.

First - the screencap of River running from Book's room is on the Two Evil Monks site, not Debchan's. I edited my post to correct that.

Second - and more importantly, I need to revise my description of the outboard wall in the port bay. There aren't two floor-level sets of sliders, but only one. I realized this when I looked back at the screencaps from OiS. The reason I checked was because the way I described it yesterday (with the mezzanine sliders, two sets of floor level sliders and the window) would make that wall longer than the others.

With the mezzanine sliders, just one set of floor-level sliders and the window, the length is the same as the other walls (because the window is just about as wide as a set of sliders) - so I feel better.

The downside of all this is that "Dobson's Room" can't be behind Book's room, as I proposed yesterday. There are just the two mezzanine screens there, so there isn't room for a 4 screen-wide room there.

I've also noticed that the floor level of the mezzanine rooms is too far above the floor-level sliders for there to be any "double" rooms incorporating the space behind a set of mezzanine screens and the space behind the adjacent floor-level set. This helps my conclusion that there are three rooms on the inboard side of the port bay.

The floors of the bays do rise gradually from the front to the back (even before the marked ramp at the back of each bay). So, what I have been referring to as the floor-level sliders are not on exactly the same level. You can see this in Simon's room where the aft half (i.e. the part behind the rearward set of floor-level sliders) is raised above the fore half of the room (the part behind the forward set of floor-level sliders).

So the only double wide rooms are Simon's (behind two sets of sliders) and Books' (behind one set of sliders and his window).

I have a new hypothesis about Dobson's room, but it does not bear on Serenity's layout.

Keep Flyin'

Birdman

MANIACNUMBERONE

Friday, April 18, 2003 8:55 AM

Sorry for the long delays with the finished product everyone. I have been really swamped with my job these days. It's tax time you know. But, I am hoping to get more time to watch ep's and learn more about Serenity's layout. If it's not too premature, I could post what I have so far. Maybe someone can fill in some gaps. Any thoughts on that?

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

SUCCATASH

Friday, April 18, 2003 8:58 AM

Good luck!

ZIKZAK

Friday, April 18, 2003 11:31 AM

I really want someone to post a work-in-progress! That way we silent types can start reviewing it and improving it. right now its just too hard to weigh in!

Ped Xing
ZikZak

MANIACNUMBERONE

Monday, April 21, 2003 7:32 PM

Here you go zikzik. I am posting my work in progress. The link is here:
http://www.magicbishop.com/fungoodies.html

TALLGUY

Monday, April 21, 2003 10:18 PM

Has anyone tried to contact any of the folk that worked on Serenity's insides or outsides? I'd be curious if they'd be willing to cooperate with our rag tag little band.

I've seen some of the Foundation Imaging fellas helping out the Enterprise modelers.

Just a suggestion...

Bill
"We all know I'm the funny one."
"You ain't all that funny."

FIREFLYER

Tuesday, April 22, 2003 12:02 AM

We're watching :-)

NOOCYTE

Tuesday, April 22, 2003 4:40 AM

Maniac;

Most groovy of you to post your interim work!

A couple of points. Interesting that you depict the forward corridor as sloping; can you point to any shots which suggested that to you? Can't go to the disks myself right now to look into it. Seems reasonable, though.

I think the 'stubbifying' in your schematic may distort some things a jot: I do believe the bridge extends a bit further back from the end of the windows, before the bulkhead/stairs, than you've represented. Is this an artifact of stubbification?

Also, I'm fairly certain that the mess area extends further back than you show. If you look at some key shots of the mess (especially in "Serenity," after Simon gives the crew the skinny on River), you can see that the aft wall and door to the aft corridor begin just past the octagonal skylight window (and, presumably, just aft of the rear wrap-around viewports). Your plan views, BTW, depict this more in line with how I've perceived the layout. Indeed, they seem to be bang-on.

Actually, it just ocurred to me that the engine room's location might make more sense if the aft corridor sloped a bit (i.e., downward from the mess to the engine room); this would make it a lot easier to reconcile its apparent location at the center of the spinner. Thoughts?

More may occur to me later, but I'm a mite fuzzy at the moment.

Another thought: the Browncoat who suggested contacting Zoic Studios for some 'official' assistance with diagramming may be onto something. I realize that copyright issues pertain here, but maybe someone in the know might give us a few pointers...?

Thanks again for posting this! I look forward to watching it evolve!

Keep flyin'!

Department of Redundancy Department

NOOCYTE

Tuesday, April 22, 2003 5:10 AM

Note: I just wrote a very polite and charmingly self-deprecating message to one of the artists at Zoic Studios who was responsible for the FX in Firefly, inquiring about the potential availability of schematics (including asking if such schematics would be included in the DVD release, in case copyrights prevent their becomeing available to fans directly). I made it a point to mention fireflyfans (and this thread, on the remote chance that she might be interested). Hey, it was worth a shot!

Waiting is...

Department of Redundancy Department

TALRIUS

Tuesday, April 22, 2003 6:25 AM

You need to v the passanger dorms. The top tier of the catwalk only attatches to the walls where the shuttle hatches are and those two mystery doors are.

MANIACNUMBERONE

Tuesday, April 22, 2003 7:32 AM

I realize that there is much to be done. I am so busy with regular work (taxes) that I have had very little time to devote to watching ep's and learning more.

I appreciate all the comments, and most, if not all of them, sound right on the money. If you have Adobe Pagemaker, feel free to update any changes you think are needed.

I have to say I am pleased that so many others are interested in the fascinating layout of Serenity. It bodes well for all of you.

I will continue work on this layout when it becomes easier on my eyes to view ep's and stare at the comp screen after so many hours logging your taxes.

Continue to be patient and you will be rewarded.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

TALRIUS

Tuesday, April 22, 2003 7:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
Continue to be patient and you will be rewarded.

That's because patience is a virtue. No rush Maniac, just made some observations. I would update your plans but I don't have that program.

ANND

Tuesday, April 22, 2003 2:59 PM

A thought I had the other day. Has anyone looked at the schematics shown in OMR? Where the bad guys are scoping out the ship. There might be something there to give a clue.

Ann

NOOCYTE

Tuesday, April 22, 2003 3:31 PM

Alas, there's precious little there (in OMR's chop-shop-guys' schematics), but for some interesting but rather unhelpful slices showing structural supports, and what appear to be conduits 'n such. No interior decks or bulkheads were visible when I looked (and I looked pretty carefully). Good thought, and good memory...but, alas, dry well (unless we're going for a full blueprint treatment, with structural info, etc. But I'd dearly like to reconcile the interior sets with the exterior before we start going into such things).

As I'd said, I have an email into one of the chief honchos at Zoic, who supervised the CGI for "Firefly" (won an award for "Serenity"). Hopefully, she'll be kind enough to write back, and will be able to shed some light on some of our speculations and scrutinizing.

Keep flyin'!

Department of Redundancy Department

MANIACNUMBERONE

Tuesday, April 22, 2003 5:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnnD:
A thought I had the other day. Has anyone looked at the schematics shown in OMR? Where the bad guys are scoping out the ship. There might be something there to give a clue.

Ann

I did extensive copying during this part, trying to figure out structure. Excellent memory. I thought I was the only one staring at that.

And thanks for your interest!

HAPLO721

Friday, April 25, 2003 12:03 AM

I'm trying to convert those deckplans to an RPG mapping program called AutoRealm. If you download the program (just google it for the site), I can send you what I have so far.

Early: You ever been raped, Kaylee?
Kaylee: You know, it's funny you should mention that... ever heard of the Fox network?

TALRIUS

Monday, April 28, 2003 6:49 AM

Hey Maniac. Go to Kaythryn's site. I capped the video on the fox web site that has part of serenity's blue prints. Go into the non-episodic tab to find them. 3 in all.

--------------------------------------------------
DOBSON: I'm supposed to be meeting my wife's sister. I've only got a few days to see her...

ZOE: I wish there was another way...

DOBSON: Oh, no, no. That woman is like a dragon. I mean, I believe she has a tail. If there's any other moons we need to visit, or if we could just
fly very slowly...

UNCLEHYENA

Monday, April 28, 2003 1:07 PM

I have actually managed to make a pretty good, consistent map of the ship.

When I started, I was under the impression that the ship was consistent, but didn't really work in real space (that is, some of the spaces overlapped each other, because in reality the sets were in two very distinct places). I was suprised to learn that this was not so; I came up with a map that matched every episode, and even fit within something that resembled the dimensions of Serenity, EXCEPT...

There is NO way to get the corridor that runs from the bridge to the engine room to fit the irregularities in the side view of the ship. The reason why becomes clear if you manage to see the pre-production art that the graphics company was using at about the time the sets were built; the early Serenity didn't have such deep vertical notches.

Unfortunately, my map is on graph paper, and I don't have ready access to a scanner, but it CAN be done...

Uncle Hyena

NOOCYTE

Monday, April 28, 2003 8:28 PM

TALRIUS: Yah, I'd looked at those prints, and they clearly represent an earlier version of the ship's profile; it's much straighter and slimmer. Thanks for posting them!

UncleHyena:

Quote:
There is NO way to get the corridor that runs from the bridge to the engine room to fit the irregularities in the side view of the ship. The reason why becomes clear if you manage to see the pre-production art that the graphics company was using at about the time the sets were built; the early Serenity didn't have such deep vertical notches.

You're absolutely right; the 'wasp-waist constriction' (shades of Larry Niven) between the "thorax" and "abdomen" pods of the ship is very deep. there is no way that a corridor could extend straight back from the mess that far without breaching the hull and extending out into space ("Lookit that: 'breach hull, all die!' Even underlined it!" [MST3K:The Movie]). If one wants to place the "beating heart" of the ship at the point where the thorax meets the abdomen (middle of the Spinning Lights [pardon the jargon]), one would need a staircase at the aft end of the aft corridor, or more likely, around the middle (say just past the aft staircase to the Commons/Dorms/Med Bay), leading down almost a full level. We must get on the line to Joss immediately!!

Quote:
Unfortunately, my map is on graph paper, and I don't have ready access to a scanner, but it CAN be done...

Might I suggest (beg? entreat? supplicate?) you take your graph(s) to Kinko's (or the equivalent, wherever you are) and buy some (cheap) time on a scanner, save the file on a good ole floppy, and share the wealth. I (and, I suspect ManiacNumberOne...among many others) would be intrigued to see it/them!

Pity the interiors don't match up exactly with the exteriors (pretty darn close, though!); takes me out of the 'verse just a wee bit...but this is MUCH more than amply made up for by the rest of this exquisitely crafted show!

BTW, no word back from Zoic Studios for my e-mail request for guidance from their art dept. Didn't really expect any. But it would have put many of these questions to bed.

Keep flyin'!

Department of Redundancy Department

TIMMINEARNET

Monday, April 28, 2003 10:27 PM

Um...not to be all spammy on you guys or anything but...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3324017415

I just listed those on ebay a few minutes ago if anyone's interested.

HAPLO721

Monday, April 28, 2003 10:31 PM

Hot gorram! Somebody snatch these up and scan 'em!

Early: You ever been raped, Kaylee?
Kaylee: You know, it's funny you should mention that... ever heard of the Fox network?

TALRIUS

Monday, April 28, 2003 11:30 PM

Those plans fit the original serenity from the unaired pilot and train job. I didn't post them there Kaythryn did so really you should give her credit. As for the Zoic Studios, they might be putting the bp's on the dvd's. Joss said he was gonna load it down with goodies.

--------------------------------------------------
DOBSON: I'm supposed to be meeting my wife's sister. I've only got a few days to see her...

ZOE: I wish there was another way...

DOBSON: Oh, no, no. That woman is like a dragon. I mean, I believe she has a tail. If there's any other moons we need to visit, or if we could just
fly very slowly...

TALLGUY

Tuesday, April 29, 2003 1:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Talrius:
Those plans fit the original serenity from the unaired pilot and train job. I didn't post them there Kaythryn did so really you should give her credit. As for the Zoic Studios, they might be putting the bp's on the dvd's. Joss said he was gonna load it down with goodies.

Did they change the sets at all between Serenity/Train Job and the rest of the show? The biggest difference between the exteriors on the Pilot Serenity and the Production Serenity (I'm assuming there were only the two) that *I* can see is the cargo bay "footprint" seen from below is MUCH larger on the Production version. From what I can see on e-bay (ooohhhhhhhh!) the interiors seem to match the Production more than the Pilot (which I had already suspected).

Bill
"We all know I'm the funny one."
"You ain't all that funny."

MANIACNUMBERONE

Tuesday, April 29, 2003 7:33 AM

That almost makes me want to stop my slow-going blueprint work. I have been having so much fun watching ep's and slowly piecing everything together, now I am dissappointed. Should I even bother to finish?

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

MANIACNUMBERONE

Sunday, May 11, 2003 8:40 PM

Maniacnumbertwo: "No Maniac, don't stop your work - keep going - you can do it!!"

Maniacnumberone: "Well, ok. I 'll keep going I guess."

Maniacnumbertwo: "Good, good. I'm glad."

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

TALRIUS

Sunday, May 11, 2003 8:47 PM

I agree with Maniacnumbertwo.

Keep goin'.

--------------------------------------------------
DOBSON: I'm supposed to be meeting my wife's sister. I've only got a few days to see her...

ZOE: I wish there was another way...

DOBSON: Oh, no, no. That woman is like a dragon. I mean, I believe she has a tail. If there's any other moons we need to visit, or if we could just
fly very slowly...

TALLGUY

Sunday, May 11, 2003 9:13 PM

No no no! Don't stop!

-- morale support --
-- morale support --
-- morale support --
-- morale support --

Sorry. I just haven't seen this thread in a while.

Bill
"We all know I'm the funny one."
"You ain't all that funny."

CHRISTHECYNIC

Sunday, May 11, 2003 10:40 PM

About those Blueprints on eBay.

Second time around someone actually got them (for a lower price than the earlier one that didn't meet the reserve.) Anybody up for talking mjburrage into scaning and posting those blueprints?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3325152318

And by the way, dont stop. Make your blueprints, make them well, and share.

NOOCYTE

Monday, May 12, 2003 7:15 AM

Yes, by all means, Maniac, do continue with the Project. A careful look and fuzzy zoom on the e-bay image of the prints would no doubt prove useful (handily resolves the angled configuration question for the passenger dorms). A side view would prove handy for the engine room location (the more I work the problem, the more I'm convinced that a staircase would be required in the aft corridor, dropping the engine room into the middle of the spindle... Hopefully this will be addressed in the movie or continuation of the series [hope springs eternal, gorram it!!!]), but, alas, none there.

But, yes, do listen to ManiacNumberTwo!

Keep flyin'!!

Department of Redundancy Department

CHRISTHECYNIC

Monday, May 12, 2003 11:48 PM

If you assume that those are correct (is that a safe assumption?) then you could blow them up and copy the outline so that you would have something to fill in rather than have to work from scratch. But you would still have to do most of the work, as you can't get more than an outline from the picture there.

KOFFEE

Tuesday, May 13, 2003 11:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
Maniacnumbertwo: "No Maniac, don't stop your work - keep going - you can do it!!"

Maniacnumberone: "Well, ok. I 'll keep going I guess."

Maniacnumbertwo: "Good, good. I'm glad."

First, keep going on the blueprints. It is a worthy project.

Second, this Maniacnumbertwo, is he like a clone, or a smaller version of youself that lives in your hat, who has an even smaller Maniac in his hat and so on........?

----------------------------------------------
“It's a real burn, being right so often.”

CHRISTHECYNIC

Tuesday, May 13, 2003 11:56 PM

If someone could do the blueprints the way they would be done professionally, on blue and everything, then it would be a very nice thing to say hang on a wall. Obviously still a lot of work before that point though. Keep it up.

SUCCATASH

Wednesday, May 14, 2003 12:23 AM

All of this Number One and Number Two stuff is starting to remind me of my childhood.

PLEASE don't go Number Three on us, Maniac.

MANIACNUMBERONE

Wednesday, May 14, 2003 9:35 PM

Thanks for the hearty encouragement from all around...I will keep going. I have been taking a hiatus from watching so much Firefly lately, as I was feeling burned out from over-watching every episode...pausing and rewinding, thinking, drawing, postulating. I'll be watching again soon.

It was indeed a boon to have the rough layout on ebay. I enjoyed copying it when it was there to use for my project...and was very glad it cleared up the passenger dorm orientation misunderstanding.

As for you, Koffee, your posts always gives me something funny to think about. You just keep making me happy.

KOFFEE

Wednesday, May 14, 2003 10:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
As for you, Koffee, your posts always gives me something funny to think about. You just keep making me happy.

Always happy to make someone smile.

But I am curious, did you get the Dr. Suess reference?

----------------------------------------------
“It's a real burn, being right so often.”

CHRISTHECYNIC

Wednesday, May 14, 2003 10:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Koffee:
Always happy to make someone smile.

But I am curious, did you get the Dr. Suess reference?

----------------------------------------------
“It's a real burn, being right so often.”

You're good at causing smiles.
and Everyone loves Dr. Suess.

SUCCATASH

Thursday, May 15, 2003 2:33 AM

I have a Cat in the Hat tattoo on my back.

KOFFEE

Sunday, May 18, 2003 9:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
You're good at causing smiles.
and Everyone loves Dr. Suess.

Thank you. I do what I can.

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
I have a Cat in the Hat tattoo on my back.

A few people in my family have gotten tatoos the past few years, but I don't think I will ever be one of them. I prefer the temporary kind so I can move them around. It may be on my ankle one day, and then my upper thigh the next......

----------------------------------------------
“It's a real burn, being right so often.”

MANIACNUMBERONE

Sunday, May 18, 2003 7:35 PM

I would like a photographic expose' on the journey of that tattoo Koffee.
I am personally in agreement with your tattoo belief. Why mark up a beautiful young body?
And wasn't it the cat in the hat who had a another cat in the hat, under his hat, and so on?

KOFFEE

Monday, May 19, 2003 4:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
I would like a photographic expose' on the journey of that tattoo Koffee.

That would be an interesting expose' indeed!

I'll have to think on that.......

Quote:
I am personally in agreement with your tattoo belief. Why mark up a beautiful young body?

Course, you could always wait till your 70th birthday like my grandma did. That way there are no worries about the "beautiful young body".

Quote:
And wasn't it the cat in the hat who had a another cat in the hat, under his hat, and so on?

You are quite correct!

It was from my favorite book as a kid, The Cat in the Hat Comes Back.

----------------------------------------------
“It's a real burn, being right so often.”

KOFFEE

Monday, May 19, 2003 4:39 AM

Oops! Double post........

MANIACNUMBERONE

Monday, May 19, 2003 4:22 PM

I heard a comic on tv talking about tattooing old bodies. It was hilarious! He suggested waiting for some really blue veins to appear and then tattooing monkeys onto them - like they were swinging from vines. he he he.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Saturday, May 24, 2003 11:25 PM

so, whats going on with this, any progress?

MANIACNUMBERONE

Sunday, May 25, 2003 12:28 AM

well, it's slow going I tell ya. I am taking my time. I haven't given up though. I expect to be done within a few weeks.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Sunday, May 25, 2003 12:42 AM

Thanks for the update, I look forward to seeing it.

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