Dumbest Line in Firefly

POSTED BY: YT
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 03:57
VIEWED: 19229
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I've been waiting for Chrisisall to start something like this, but he seems preoccupied. Anyway, I'll kick it off with a nominee.

War Stories: Book (to Zoe & Jayne): "From the look of these wounds I'd say a 54R sniper rifle. Laser sights."

A cursory examination of entrance wounds might give you an idea of bullet caliber, but it would be a range. Additional examination of exit wounds might give you a general idea of cartridge power, but with a significant range. Knowing something about possible cartridges limits possible weapons to those that could fire those cartridges; beyond that, wounds tell you nothing further about the weapon. And the idea that wounds could tell you anything about whether or not the weapon had laser sights is just a joke.

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

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Sorry Mr. Glass... but I'm voting you in again...

Serenity: Book: I never married.

Seriously? No one is caring at this point, it wasn't funny the first time he said it and it wasn't funny the second time. It had no bearing on whether or not he was going to book transport, because he was obviously travelling alone, not to mention the Brutus captain and Kaylee called him 'grandpa', not 'husband'.

Not that I have technical data to back up my argument, but... I just found this one pretty lame.

And coming up a close second is the whole Shan Yu debacle in "War Stories". It served no purpose to the plot of the episode. Niska is bad, we get it. Torture is bad, we get it. The blue handed guys are bad, we get that too.

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

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Originally posted by Jacqui:
And coming up a close second is the whole Shan Yu debacle in "War Stories". It served no purpose to the plot of the episode.

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Methinks you need to rewatch War Stories ;)

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You can't split that sentence, the following words explain what I meant...

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It served no purpose to the plot of the episode. Niska is bad, we get it. Torture is bad, we get it. The blue handed guys are bad, we get that too.

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A brief reference to the Shan Yu theme would really have sufficed, they didn't need to hammer it in so forcefully. We get that all the above mentioned things were bad, we didn't needs several mentions of an evil dictator to highlight this fact.

One thing I love about Joss shows is that they don't feel the need to talk down to their audience, they trust the intelligence of it. I, personally, felt that they overdid the Shan Yu thing, but I could be wrong.

In fact, I'm pretty sure I am. It happens often, I'm told. ;P


*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

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JACQUI

Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 03:39

Sorry Mr. Glass... but I'm voting you in again...

Serenity: Book: I never married.

Seriously? No one is caring at this point, it wasn't funny the first time he said it and it wasn't funny the second time. It had no bearing on whether or not he was going to book transport, because he was obviously travelling alone, not to mention the Brutus captain and Kaylee called him 'grandpa', not 'husband'.

Not that I have technical data to back up my argument, but... I just found this one pretty lame.

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I completey disagree. It was a subtle as it was telling about the man. He never married. He never had kids, they never grew up and had their own kids and made him a grandpa....he's not a grandpa. He never married. It's not relevent to whether he's going to book transport on the Brutus or not. Book is telling strangers something about himself that they'd otherwise just assume about him. He IS a Shepherd, and part of his demeanor is to connect w/ others on a personal level. He's telling them something about himself, even before he knows their name.


As for dumbest line, one above all others stands out in my mind. Sadly, it's from our own Hero, Jayne. In OUT OF GAS, Jayne's remark about Inara's shuttle smelling funny,that she's done something to it, as the reason for them not getting back first in time to save Mal. It was the worst throw away line of the entire series.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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"You're a rabbit, Mal!"

Oh, wait. There's a chance that's not the actual line..

I think, in 'Shindig', the whole: "You have to finish it." thing is a bit cringe-worthy. It's so obvious that Mal won't kill Atherton. But those lines just make it all the more in-your-face.

"My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."

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Yeah, that's how it comes up on the subtitles. I can forgive subtitlers/closed captioners for not knowing the words that only the dedicated would recognize, like "gorram it," which is what that line is. I always watch my tv with the cc on and I'm all the time seeing goofy crap and going "I thought you needed a high school education to work as a captioner."

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Originally posted by Daelus:
"You're a rabbit, Mal!"

Oh, wait. There's a chance that's not the actual line..

---

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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I'll throw in a vote for Wash in War Stories...

"There's a little saying amongst people like us...Leave no man behind." *chambers round*

Or something to that effect. Anytime Wash is trying to portray toughness, I have to look away...And this line is the perfect example. Blech!

But, I do love the episode...

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

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I bet you guys and gals who cringe at the "grandpa" business are YOUNG guys and gals. I think what Book is saying is "I'm a vital, youthful, ass-kicking-Shaolin-monk-type-Shepherd-and-I-could-stuff-that-'Grandpa'-stuff-up-your-nose-if-I-wanted-to."

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Originally posted by manwithpez:
I'll throw in a vote for Wash in War Stories...

"There's a little saying amongst people like us...Leave no man behind." *chambers round*

Or something to that effect. Anytime Wash is trying to portray toughness, I have to look away...And this line is the perfect example. Blech!

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That was the whole point of that line and it's accompanying teeny tiny gun. Wash isn't that tough, but he's making him self be for the captain's sake.

I thought it was kinda cliche, though, and sounded like he didn't really know any "folks like us."

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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"Let's moon 'em." from the beginning of the pilot.

Just a stupid line.

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Originally posted by shinyseven2:
I bet you guys and gals who cringe at the "grandpa" business are YOUNG guys and gals. I think what Book is saying is "I'm a vital, youthful, ass-kicking-Shaolin-monk-type-Shepherd-and-I-could-stuff-that-'Grandpa'-stuff-up-your-nose-if-I-wanted-to."

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I, for one, immediately identified with the "I'm not a grandpa" business, and not because of or in spite of my age. As a teacher, I get called "Mrs." constantly, and it can wear on your nerves a bit. It's like having people constantly mispronounce your name. (That happens to me, too. My last name is a bit deceptive. Everyone *thinks* they know how to say it.) When I get annoyed with it, my shorthand way of dealing with it is to waggle my naked ring finger and say "Not married." Very similar to Book's offhand delivery of "I never married" to the Brutus crew member.

To me, when Book says "I never married," he's doing several things that are important in the introduction of the character. He's demonstrating that he's removed enough from the secular culture not to answer to a nickname which is clearly axiomatic, since Kaylee uses it, too. He's demonstrating that in a very polite way he's going to insist on being treated as an individual. He's also saying, in a subtle way, "I'm not what you expect me to be," and doesn't *that* become apparent later on! Finally, and to my mind, most importantly, when he says the same thing to Kaylee, and she understands him without further explanation, it shows that Book has been looking not just for a ship that takes his fancy, but also for a connection with the people on board. That's why he says "because how you get there is the worthier part," and why he choses Serenity. It also reinforces Kaylee's intuitive understanding of other people.

That's what I love about Joss's work. It's like poetry, because even three little words can hold a wealth of meaning if you look deep enough.

*** *** ***
The woods are the only place where I can see a clear path.

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I'll forgive anything they say on the show, realizing that people say stupid things in real life all the time. What bugs me is when my believability bubble gets burst.

So I'd have to say my "dumbest line" is in Ariel when Simon uses a defibrillator on a flat-line patient and drugs him up when he goes into ventricular tachycardia. That's backwards.

Defibrillators are only used when the heart is beating dangerously fast, like slapping a panicked person in the face and shouting "get a hold of yourself!" They're useless with a flat-line, for which first choice is drugs (epi, calcium, misc. drug of the future). I have heard of ACLS (Advanced Cardiac Life Support) certified people using defib paddles on flat-line patients, but only when no better course of action is available, and because there's nothing to lose.

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Agreed. It is impossible to tell if someone was shot with a weapon that had a laser sight mounted on it.

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Originally posted by Jacqui:
Sorry Mr. Glass... but I'm voting you in again...

Serenity: Book: I never married.

Seriously? No one is caring at this point, it wasn't funny the first time he said it and it wasn't funny the second time. It had no bearing on whether or not he was going to book transport, because he was obviously travelling alone, not to mention the Brutus captain and Kaylee called him 'grandpa', not 'husband'.

Not that I have technical data to back up my argument, but... I just found this one pretty lame.

And coming up a close second is the whole Shan Yu debacle in "War Stories". It served no purpose to the plot of the episode. Niska is bad, we get it. Torture is bad, we get it. The blue handed guys are bad, we get that too.

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

---

To call someone a "granpa" is an insult. It's like referring to someone as "old man." Book, instead of saying something equality nasty back, he slyly smiles and simple says: "I never married." i.e. I AM NOT A GRANPA! Dumbass!

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Originally posted by YT:
War Stories: Book (to Zoe & Jayne): "From the look of these wounds I'd say a 54R sniper rifle. Laser sights."

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YT, a 54R sniper rifle w/out laser sights would invariably be locked on auto-fire to nail victims from a distance. He had one single hole in him; therefore the laser sight assumption.
Duh.

Weapons master Chrisisall

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Originally posted by Saint Jayne:

So I'd have to say my "dumbest line" is in Ariel when Simon uses a defibrillator on a flat-line patient and drugs him up when he goes into ventricular tachycardia. That's backwards.

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Backwards in MOST instances, yes. But that patient had recent surgery AND ventricular seizures; reversing the proceedure, while risky, is the only alternative to death.
Duh.

Dr. Chrisisall, PHD

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There ARE no dumb lines in Firefly, only dumb interpretations of genius writing.

Chrisisall, keeper o' the Faith

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I agree that there are no dumb lines in Firefly, and you really just don't get it. But if I have to give an example it would be when in The Train Job Jayne is laughing about what Wash said about blowing a new crater in this little moon, it seemed out of character because I could never see Jayne laughing at anything Wash says.

But besides that tiny weenie thing I have, the whole show is just great, right down to the crappy protein rations

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
There ARE no dumb lines in Firefly, only dumb interpretations of genius writing.

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=) Your point is taken. Better to infer a situation where the dialogue is right and good rather than to stamp our feet and say how bad it is.

For some of us, this sort of thing is entertaining, though, and we are in the position of having so few shows to appreciate, that our analysis can get quite granular. This thread is clearly for the nit-pickers, so pick away!

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Originally posted by tmurrie:
I could never see Jayne laughing at anything Wash says.

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Jayne wasn't laughing at what Wash said, he was laughing at how STUPID those pro-Alliance dopes were believin' what Wash said about being able to shoot anything with an unarmed transport.
Duh.

Jayne expert Chrisisall

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Warning: Anything nit-picked can be easily shot down by me; I can explain away everything, even why there is gravity on a ship w/no power (see: Out Of Gas).

You been warned Chrisisall

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Originally posted by dietcoke:
To call someone a "granpa" is an insult. It's like referring to someone as "old man." Book, instead of saying something equality nasty back, he slyly smiles and simple says: "I never married." i.e. I AM NOT A GRANPA! Dumbass!

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Well said, Dietcoke!

You forgot the 'Duh'.



Nopickinonmyshow Chrisisall

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Warning: Anything nit-picked can be easily shot down by me; I can explain away everything

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I don't know if I'd call it explaining. LOL If you're a zealot, at least you're fighting for the right side.

Now pardon me, I have to go find 10 Firefly converts to make up for my slander.

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We all live in the same 'Verse, my brother

Zealotious Chrisisall

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While I love everything about Firefly, there has always been one word that has bugged me. It was from ep Serenity and was the word "humped." It just sounds stupid. Everyone that I have shown the series to have laughed at that line, saying how stupid the word was.

That's my only nitpick but i've since gotten used to it and don't roll my eyes at it anymore.

www.whispergraphics.net

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Originally posted by Whisper:
"humped." It just sounds stupid. Everyone that I have shown the series to have laughed at that line,

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That, I believe, was the point.

Humped Chrisisall

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Originally posted by Gnarsh:
"Let's moon 'em." from the beginning of the pilot.

Just a stupid line.

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Man, you folk are off your nut! What's that big glowy thing at the hind end of Serenity? It's what makes a Firefly a FIREFLY! "Let's moon 'em". It's a PERFECT Jayne sort of thing tosay, and it also describes them showing their back side to the Alliance as they haul the heck out of there.

I think some of you are just picking out random lines to cause controversy for the hell of it. Shame shame shame!

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
I can explain away everything, even why there is gravity on a ship w/no power (see: Out Of Gas).

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Huh! Now that you mention it....why IS there gravity on the ship when there's no power?

"Mwah ha ha ha...mine is an evil laugh. Now die."

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the best way to make a line dumb (but funny) is to add "in my pants"
EX: "you're going to the special hell" - in my pants!
"we're still flying" - in my pants!

really quite fun and everyone should go through the eps and do this- it's mighty shiny!

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Huh! Now that you mention it....why IS there gravity on the ship when there's no power?

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For the same reason there're still lights and communications with other ships. Batteries.


To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Defibrillators are only used when the heart is beating dangerously fast, like slapping a panicked person in the face and shouting "get a hold of yourself!" They're useless with a flat-line, for which first choice is drugs (epi, calcium, misc. drug of the future). I have heard of ACLS (Advanced Cardiac Life Support) certified people using defib paddles on flat-line patients, but only when no better course of action is available, and because there's nothing to lose.

---

Sorry, but you DO use a defibrillator on a patient with no heartbeat. The whole there's-no-liability-for-a-civilian-using-an-AED argument is that a person with no heartbeat is legally dead, therefore no liability attaches if there's an adverse effect from applying an AED.


To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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While I love everything about Firefly, there has always been one word that has bugged me. It was from ep Serenity and was the word "humped." It just sounds stupid. Everyone that I have shown the series to have laughed at that line, saying how stupid the word was.

---

I take it you've never had an un-neutered male dog "hump" your leg. As in: mimic having sexual intercourse with your leg. Dogs also hump each other to establish pack hierarchy. The Alpha dog won't let any dog hump him, the #2 dog will only let the Alpha hump him, etc.

The censors won't let Wash say, "We are SO f**ked" on tv.

Made perfect sense to me.


To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Man, you folk are off your nut! What's that big glowy thing at the hind end of Serenity? It's what makes a Firefly a FIREFLY! "Let's moon 'em". It's a PERFECT Jayne sort of thing tosay, and it also describes them showing their back side to the Alliance as they haul the heck out of there.

I think some of you are just picking out random lines to cause controversy for the hell of it. Shame shame shame!

---

I know the line makes perfect sense. That's not why I don't like it. It's not so much the line itself as it's the delivery. I don't like unnecessary closeups. The line would have been much better if it had just been said in passing, without focusing everything on Jayne, in my humble opinion.

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Originally posted by manwithpez:


"There's a little saying amongst people like us...Leave no man behind." *chambers round*

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The reason this line bugs the crud out of me is because that is NOT a saying amongst people like THEM.

THEY are smugglers, thieves and ne'er-do-wells.


"Leave no man behind." is the credo of the US Army Rangers, the Marine Corps Force Recon and other military Special Operations units that deal in death on a regular basis. It's why when one of them falls in battle, they grab up their buddy's body and bring it home.

Honor among soldiers . . .NO HONOR AMONG THIEVES.

Yes, I realize that our bunch of folks are not your typical criminals, but they ARE criminals.

Maybe Wash should've said, "There's a saying that applies to most of us ON THIS SHIP."

But to say "people like us" is not accurate. Remember. . .for our crew, "people like us" includes the pirate crew that tried to steal Serenity in OOG.

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Originally posted by Daelus:
"You're a rabbit, Mal!"

Oh, wait. There's a chance that's not the actual line..

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RonFLmFAO. OK, you win. Is it bad that I sometimes turn subtitles on @that point in the Message, just to see that line?

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

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Originally posted by Gnarsh:

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Man, you folk are off your nut! What's that big glowy thing at the hind end of Serenity? It's what makes a Firefly a FIREFLY! "Let's moon 'em". It's a PERFECT Jayne sort of thing tosay, and it also describes them showing their back side to the Alliance as they haul the heck out of there.

I think some of you are just picking out random lines to cause controversy for the hell of it. Shame shame shame!

---

I know the line makes perfect sense. That's not why I don't like it. It's not so much the line itself as it's the delivery. I don't like unnecessary closeups. The line would have been much better if it had just been said in passing, without focusing everything on Jayne, in my humble opinion.

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After official review, your call is not w/ out merrit. I could go either way on this one.

That damn movie better hurry up and get here. I think we've run out of things to talk about.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Originally posted by BlueBomber:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
I can explain away everything, even why there is gravity on a ship w/no power (see: Out Of Gas).

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Huh! Now that you mention it....why IS there gravity on the ship when there's no power?

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All cargo and transport ships are constructed with an exotic element yet to be discovered that exerts a gravitational pull to simulate gravity on board. It does not require power, except to negate it's effects (As in the pilot when they were bringing cargo in from space, Mal clearly pushed a button to cut off the gravity-negation field to drop the crates on the floor).
Lights are backed up by bio-luminecence, a loss of power and those little critters glow something fierce, almost as bright as the real thing.

YFC Chrisisall

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Sadly I don't know the line word for word but it's in Safe. During a flashback where they talk about Simon's great job in "capitol city". I aways cringe at that. What is this, The Simpsons? I know they can come up with a fake name. Blah blah they want you to know it's the capitol. I don't care it still sounds dumb.

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In Shindig- what Mal says about Kaylee in the pink dress- "What would you do in that rig? Flounce around the engine room? Be like a sheep walkin' on its hind legs."

But then again maybe it's a great line and I just don't get it.

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In Shindig- what Mal says about Kaylee in the pink dress- "What would you do in that rig? Flounce around the engine room? Be like a sheep walkin' on its hind legs."

But then again maybe it's a great line and I just don't get it.

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Actually, it is a great line. A full skirted dress would be downright dangerous in the engine room, probably get caught on moving parts. BTW--Sheep walk on all fours. Send me your address and I'll send you a sheep. You can see for yourself.

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Originally posted by Daelus:
"You're a rabbit, Mal!"

Oh, wait. There's a chance that's not the actual line..

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I wear headphones whenever I watch DVDs, and that is the actual line.

He did call Mal a rabbit, kinda like in a "You're chicken, a yellabelly traitor" sorta way. Rabbits and chickens respond to a threat the same way, (RUN!), the rabbit is just a bit faster than the bird.

---------------------------------------------
The real-life box droppin', man-ape gone wrong thing, now without the pesky falling boxes

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Originally posted by BlueBomber:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
I can explain away everything, even why there is gravity on a ship w/no power (see: Out Of Gas).
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Huh! Now that you mention it....why IS there gravity on the ship when there's no power?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All cargo and transport ships are constructed with an exotic element yet to be discovered that exerts a gravitational pull to simulate gravity on board. It does not require power, except to negate it's effects (As in the pilot when they were bringing cargo in from space, Mal clearly pushed a button to cut off the gravity-negation field to drop the crates on the floor).
Lights are backed up by bio-luminecence, a loss of power and those little critters glow something fierce, almost as bright as the real thing.

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I vote we cut some of these with Occam's Razor.

My fossil-fuel burning clunker of a car has lights, air and RADIO when the engine's not running because it has a battery .

Serenity frequently needs all systems running when the engines are off and she's not docked at a spaceport. Everything works while the engines are off while the ship's on Triumph, St. Albans and on whatever moon the Heart O' Gold is on.

If you leave the engines running to power ship's systems, people get slurped in and that makes them (or their next of kin) all manner of techy.

Actually, do I get a vote?


To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Originally posted by dietcoke:


To call someone a "granpa" is an insult. It's like referring to someone as "old man." Book, instead of saying something equality nasty back, he slyly smiles and simple says: "I never married." i.e. I AM NOT A GRANPA! Dumbass!

---

In China and other Asian countries, "Grandfather" is a sign of repect, when said to an older man (like Book) who the speaker is not related to.

It means that the old man was fortunate to survive long enough to see his children live long enough to have children of their own.

Since China and America have mixed together, "grandpa" is no longer an insult, mearly another way of saying "Sir". Book, after living in an Abbey for so long, probably would've forgotten that, or never learned that it meant more than "somebody with decendants".




Of course calling a kid "granpa" kind of insulting.

---------------------------------------------
The real-life box droppin', man-ape gone wrong thing, now without the pesky falling boxes

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Originally posted by R1Z:

I vote we cut some of these with Occam's Razor.

My fossil-fuel burning clunker of a car has lights, air and RADIO when the engine's not running because it has a battery .

Serenity frequently needs all systems running when the engines are off and she's not docked at a spaceport. Everything works while the engines are off while the ship's on Triumph, St. Albans and on whatever moon the Heart O' Gold is on.

If you leave the engines running to power ship's systems, people get slurped in and that makes them (or their next of kin) all manner of techy.

Actually, do I get a vote?


To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

---

That makes sense. havin' A/G on battery backup. No gravity would be incredibly dangerous in a ship that was'nt built to be without it. It would make repairs almost impossible. Hell. they'd be dead before they even got to the engine room.



Plus, the writers did'nt want to have Nathan hangin' from a wire harness for two weeks while they shot the episode.

---------------------------------------------
The real-life box droppin', man-ape gone wrong thing, now without the pesky falling boxes

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Originally posted by Whisper:
While I love everything about Firefly, there has always been one word that has bugged me. It was from ep Serenity and was the word "humped." It just sounds stupid. Everyone that I have shown the series to have laughed at that line, saying how stupid the word was.

That's my only nitpick but i've since gotten used to it and don't roll my eyes at it anymore.

www.whispergraphics.net

---

They used it because "screwed" is over used, and not nearly as funny or imaginitive.

---------------------------------------------
The real-life box droppin', man-ape gone wrong thing, now without the pesky falling boxes

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I have always hated the first lines of dialogue in Heart of Gold. As my least favorite episode, it may be because it starts off so horribly. Rance's lines arent bad... it's just when the girls start talking "He'll do it too" as if no one else knew that, "No he won't we wont allow it" is just asking for the next question, because it's clear they cant stop Rance... "We'll get help that's how..." "Not a soul on this moon go up agaisnt Rance Burgess" "Ain't nobody strong enough".... "besides, who'd help us"....

It just begs the cheesy addendum "This looks like a job for... THE SERENITY CREW!!!!!"... it just doesn't work, and whoever wrote those lines must have been drunk or something, because most of the rest of the episode is pretty good.

I survived a day in Whitefall and all I got was this lousy signature!

Terrifying Space Monkey of Destiny

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Originally posted by dietcoke:

To call someone a "granpa" is an insult. It's like referring to someone as "old man." Book, instead of saying something equality nasty back, he slyly smiles and simple says: "I never married." i.e. I AM NOT A GRANPA! Dumbass!

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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In many cultures -- especially Asian cultures -- calling someone grandfather or grandmother is a sign of respect. One is deferring to the individuals superior age, maturity, wisdom and life experience.

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Originally posted by Whisper:
While I love everything about Firefly, there has always been one word that has bugged me. It was from ep Serenity and was the word "humped." It just sounds stupid. Everyone that I have shown the series to have laughed at that line, saying how stupid the word was.

That's my only nitpick but i've since gotten used to it and don't roll my eyes at it anymore.

www.whispergraphics.net

---

"Humped" is a euphemism for "f**ked," and has been for decades.

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Originally posted by Static:

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Originally posted by manwithpez:


"There's a little saying amongst people like us...Leave no man behind." *chambers round*

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The reason this line bugs the crud out of me is because that is NOT a saying amongst people like THEM.

THEY are smugglers, thieves and ne'er-do-wells.


"Leave no man behind." is the credo of the US Army Rangers, the Marine Corps Force Recon and other military Special Operations units that deal in death on a regular basis. It's why when one of them falls in battle, they grab up their buddy's body and bring it home.

Honor among soldiers . . .NO HONOR AMONG THIEVES.

Yes, I realize that our bunch of folks are not your typical criminals, but they ARE criminals.

Maybe Wash should've said, "There's a saying that applies to most of us ON THIS SHIP."

But to say "people like us" is not accurate. Remember. . .for our crew, "people like us" includes the pirate crew that tried to steal Serenity in OOG.

---

But remember that the name of the episode is "War Stories." Mal and Zoe *were* soldiers. That is the source of the unshakable bond between the two of them which bothers Wash enough to set off the whole chain of events.

When Wash says "people like us," he's trying to allign himself with Zoe and Mal, *not* with the entire crew. Of course, he's basing his right to belong to this "band of brothers" on one little adventure in which he didn't manage to contribute much and probably wouldn't have survived without Mal, the real veteran.

The humor of the line comes from the fact that Wash still doesn't really understand the depth of the bond he's aspiring to; he can only speak about it in hackneyed cliches. But at the same time, he's learned enough about it that instead of feeling left out, he can now admire his wife for her loyalty, which is inextricably linked to her service in the war.

Like so many lines in Joss's work, this one works on many levels, but only if you're paying attention to the larger context and to what the line tells you about the character's development.

*** *** ***
The woods are the only place where I can see a clear path.

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Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:

Quote:

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Originally posted by dietcoke:

To call someone a "granpa" is an insult. It's like referring to someone as "old man." Book, instead of saying something equality nasty back, he slyly smiles and simple says: "I never married." i.e. I AM NOT A GRANPA! Dumbass!

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

---

In many cultures -- especially Asian cultures -- calling someone grandfather or grandmother is a sign of respect. One is deferring to the individuals superior age, maturity, wisdom and life experience.

---

There are a couple of times in the commentaries where Joss talks about showing how a character reacts differently to different people, and I think the repetition of "Granpa" followed by "I never married," is another example.

The Brutus crew member is using "Granpa" with a more western connotation. I.E., "I don't know you, but by calling you this nickname maybe I can create a false sense of connection with you in order to sell you something." Book responds by casually rejecting the nickname, albeit politely, and with it the false show of friendliness. In the process, his unexpected answer confuses the Brutus huxster right out of his sales pitch, and Book blends back in with the crowd, having proved himself no push over.

Kaylee, on the other hand, approaches Book with an insight into his personality, rather than a hard sell. Book is interested; he stops to talk with her. They form the beginnings of a real connection. So that by the time Kaylee calls him "Granpa," she's using it in a much more eastern way. "Oh, aren't you clever and wise to bring something like this as a way of paying your fare," with a good dash of innocent flirtation thrown in for good measure. This time when Book responds, "I never married," he's sharing part of his life story, another first step of friendship.

As I said earlier in this thread, this little scene tells you several things about Book's character, background, and how he relates to others. But it also shows something about the interaction of Eastern and Western culture in the 'Verse. One word can have a wealth of connotations from both cultures. It all depends on how it's used.

*** *** ***
The woods are the only place where I can see a clear path.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by truthseeker:

Quote:

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Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:

Quote:

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Originally posted by dietcoke:

To call someone a "granpa" is an insult. It's like referring to someone as "old man." Book, instead of saying something equality nasty back, he slyly smiles and simple says: "I never married." i.e. I AM NOT A GRANPA! Dumbass!

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

---

In many cultures -- especially Asian cultures -- calling someone grandfather or grandmother is a sign of respect. One is deferring to the individuals superior age, maturity, wisdom and life experience.

---

There are a couple of times in the commentaries where Joss talks about showing how a character reacts differently to different people, and I think the repetition of "Granpa" followed by "I never married," is another example.

The Brutus crew member is using "Granpa" with a more western connotation. I.E., "I don't know you, but by calling you this nickname maybe I can create a false sense of connection with you in order to sell you something." Book responds by casually rejecting the nickname, albeit politely, and with it the false show of friendliness. In the process, his unexpected answer confuses the Brutus huxster right out of his sales pitch, and Book blends back in with the crowd, having proved himself no push over.

Kaylee, on the other hand, approaches Book with an insight into his personality, rather than a hard sell. Book is interested; he stops to talk with her. They form the beginnings of a real connection. So that by the time Kaylee calls him "Granpa," she's using it in a much more eastern way. "Oh, aren't you clever and wise to bring something like this as a way of paying your fare," with a good dash of innocent flirtation thrown in for good measure. This time when Book responds, "I never married," he's sharing part of his life story, another first step of friendship.

As I said earlier in this thread, this little scene tells you several things about Book's character, background, and how he relates to others. But it also shows something about the interaction of Eastern and Western culture in the 'Verse. One word can have a wealth of connotations from both cultures. It all depends on how it's used.

*** *** ***
The woods are the only place where I can see a clear path.

---

Well said. In my view, Kaylee's "Oh Grandpa," was a way of saying, "Oh, dear Sir." But Book was still annoyed by the undue famliarity from a moment before. Never-the-less, he responded gently.

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Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:

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Originally posted by Whisper:
While I love everything about Firefly, there has always been one word that has bugged me. It was from ep Serenity and was the word "humped." It just sounds stupid. Everyone that I have shown the series to have laughed at that line, saying how stupid the word was.

That's my only nitpick but i've since gotten used to it and don't roll my eyes at it anymore.

www.whispergraphics.net]


"Humped" is a euphemism for "f**ked," and has been for decades.

---

I know what it's a euphemism for. I still maintain it sounds dumb. "Screwed" may be overused but it still works well. Maybe if they only had said it once it wouldn't have bugged me so much, but they used it 3(?) times.

Another one from Serenity... "Backbirth." I assume that it means a breech birth but it doesn't really make sense when used in regard to someone intelligence.

www.whispergraphics.net

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Do you have any facts to back that up, not to sound unbelieving.

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"Backbirth"

Maybe it's Back Berth. As in Berthing in the rear? Like maybe having the cheap seats? And therefore being ignorant po folk?

I seem to recall that there was disdain for the cheap seat occupants in the days of the Titanic. Maybe this harkens back to that.

I'm not a Back Berth = I'm not stupid white trash or I'm not an idiot county bumpkin.

Such like that there?

--Anthony


"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Whisper:

Another one from Serenity... "Backbirth." I assume that it means a breech birth but it doesn't really make sense when used in regard to someone intelligence.

---

It's actually "back berth," and it's an old sailing term equivalent to greenhorn.

In the days of sail, the newest, least experienced sailor aboard ship got the back berth in the Fore Castle -- strangely enough, it was the most forward berth in the ship, and subsequently had the greatest motion from the seas, and the least ventilation.

He was saying in effect, "I wasn't born yesterday."

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That makes much more sense! Thanks! Hmmm, maybe i should watch the show with subtitles at some point.

www.whispergraphics.net

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Originally posted by Whisper:
That makes much more sense! Thanks! Hmmm, maybe i should watch the show with subtitles at some point.

---

That always helps me! Then again -- now that I'm entering geezerhood -- sometimes I have too. My hearing isn't what it once was.

Actually, I don't remember how it was spelled in the sub-titles. Also, you might get a kick out of the mistakes that were made in the subtitles.

One example was in TRASH, when Mal calls Yolanda-Saffron-Briget "Yo-Saf-Brige." The subtitles say, "Speaks Chinese."

Another funny one -- to me at least -- is in the episode SHINDIG, where, as Badger is leaving Serenity, he says, "Ta for a nice evening then."

I don't remember what the subtitles say, but whoever wrote them didn't know that "Ta" is a British slang term for "thank you."

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Dumbest lines in Firefly?

Anything said by River, Jayne, or Book in French. Have you every listened to the French voiceovees of the episodes. River sounds like she’s three (very nigh voice), Jayne sounds like a butler (too smart), and Book sounds like a Klingon (very, very low). Oh and Zoe sounds like a ditz (I forgot that one)

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Actually, it is a great line. A full skirted dress would be downright dangerous in the engine room, probably get caught on moving parts. BTW--Sheep walk on all fours. Send me your address and I'll send you a sheep. You can see for yourself.

---

So, is he saying Kaylee would look like a sheep or that Kaylee dressed up like a lady would be as unlikely as a sheep walking on tow legs?

Moreover, I grew up on a farm and our farmhand raised sheep and he had one with 6 legs, but it was stillborn. Not relevant I know it was just a creepy looking dead sheep.

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So, is he saying Kaylee would look like a sheep or that Kaylee dressed up like a lady would be as unlikely as a sheep walking on tow legs?

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Meaning Kaylee in a full skirt would be as impractical and inefficient as a sheep walking on its hind legs.


To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Originally posted by Shorny:
I grew up on a farm and our farmhand raised sheep and he had one with 6 legs, but it was stillborn.

---

Poor li'l thang never saw the light of day, now it's in Fireflyfans.net

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

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Another funny one -- to me at least -- is in the episode SHINDIG, where, as Badger is leaving Serenity, he says, "Ta for a nice evening then."

I don't remember what the subtitles say, but whoever wrote them didn't know that "Ta" is a British slang term for "thank you."

---

What would be wrong with "Thank you for a nice night?"

Although, actually, what he says is "Ta (thank you) very much for a lovely night, then."


To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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The only line I cringe at is Zoe in the pilot,where Mal and the crew are laughing at Simon for believing that Kaylee is dead.
"So,Kaylee is really okay?"

To me that line was written for the morons who couldn't follow the story. Two seconds before they show Kaylee waving at Simon!?!?! Overall it's not a big deal,but for me that's the dumbest line in the entire series.

"Hamsters is nice."

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Originally posted by tmurrie:
I agree that there are no dumb lines in Firefly, and you really just don't get it. But if I have to give an example it would be when in The Train Job Jayne is laughing about what Wash said about blowing a new crater in this little moon, it seemed out of character because I could never see Jayne laughing at anything Wash says.

---

I always though Jayne laughed there because he really liked the idea of blowing a new crater in something regardless of who made the suggestion.

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worst line in firefly hands down

Random villager : she's a witch

Mal: yeah but she's our witch

Good lord did joss get bruce campbell to write that for him


If someone trys to kill you, you kill em right back

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Originally posted by R1Z:

Serenity frequently needs all systems running when the engines are off and she's not docked at a spaceport. Everything works while the engines are off while the ship's on Triumph, St. Albans and on whatever moon the Heart O' Gold is on.

---

Makes sense for all but gravity. The power needed to generate a gravity on board for hours w/out the engine on would have to come from a battery bigger than Serenity itself, IMHO.

Chrisisall

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The only line I cringe at is Zoe in the pilot,where Mal and the crew are laughing at Simon for believing that Kaylee is dead.
"So,Kaylee is really okay?"

To me that line was written for the morons who couldn't follow the story. Two seconds before they show Kaylee waving at Simon!?!?! Overall it's not a big deal,but for me that's the dumbest line in the entire series.

---

WE, via the camera's p.o.v. have been to the infirmary, but Zoe hasn't, therefore she's asking how Kaylee's doing, at a period just after "the golden hour" when minutes mean everything.

Wash hasn't been to the infirmary, either, he's been "rabbiting" the ship away from the Alliance cruiser.

Makes perfect sense to me.





To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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worst line in firefly hands down

Random villager : she's a witch

Mal: yeah but she's our witch

Good lord did joss get bruce campbell to write that for him

---

Watch yourself! If you get to pickin' on my man Bruce, or Brisco, as some of us still call him, things are gonna get REAL ugly real fast.



To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by R1Z:

Serenity frequently needs all systems running when the engines are off and she's not docked at a spaceport. Everything works while the engines are off while the ship's on Triumph, St. Albans and on whatever moon the Heart O' Gold is on.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Makes sense for all but gravity. The power needed to generate a gravity on board for hours w/out the engine on would have to come from a battery bigger than Serenity itself, IMHO.

---

Actually, generating a gravity field can be done just as efficiently as generating light or sound, once you know the trick. (The trick will be discovered in 2300 a.d.)

Like so many things, it's only hard when you don't know how to do it.



To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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You seem to forget that Anti-Gravity, engines, terraforming, and anything else convienient to the plot is made of magic on Firefly.

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I agree that there are no dumb lines in Firefly, and you really just don't get it. But if I have to give an example it would be when in The Train Job Jayne is laughing about what Wash said about blowing a new crater in this little moon, it seemed out of character because I could never see Jayne laughing at anything Wash says.

---

He's not laughing at what Wash says, he's laughing at the yokels, who don't know a transport ship has no guns.

Kinda like threatening to blow up a tank with a greyhound bus, or holding up a bank with a comb in your pocket, pretending it's a gun.


To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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You're correct about the actual dialog, and there's nothing "wrong" with it.

I was just amused by the error in the subtitle, which was, "So, very much for a lovely night, then." Doesn't make much sense with that mistake, does it?

"Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark." R. A. Heinlein

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Oops, my mistake. Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa. I've never turned on the subtitles.

How humiliating. And in front of another Heinlein fan, to boot!

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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R1Z wrote:
Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:27
Oops, my mistake. Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa. I've never turned on the subtitles.

How humiliating. And in front of another Heinlein fan, to boot!

************************

We all make mistakes . . . don't worry about it.

It was a microscopic one anyway.

And yes, I too am a great Heinlein fan.

In fact, years ago, I personally knew the man upon whom Heinlein based his character of Professor Bernardo De La Paz.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by BlueBomber:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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All cargo and transport ships are constructed with an exotic element yet to be discovered that exerts a gravitational pull to simulate gravity on board. It does not require power, except to negate it's effects (As in the pilot when they were bringing cargo in from space, Mal clearly pushed a button to cut off the gravity-negation field to drop the crates on the floor).
Lights are backed up by bio-luminecence, a loss of power and those little critters glow something fierce, almost as bright as the real thing.

YFC Chrisisall

---

Me thinks ya got it perxackly backwards.

You don't need a "gravity negation field" in space . . . where there is no gravity.

What Mal did was to turn the artificial gravity back on.

Serenity DOES have artificial gravity. Do you remember in THE MESSAGE, where Kaylee explained how the artificial gravity and natural gravity toss the lunch around a bit when they conflict?

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Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:


Serenity DOES have artificial gravity. Do you remember in THE MESSAGE, where Kaylee explained how the artificial gravity and natural gravity toss the lunch around a bit when they conflict?

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No, I must check this immediatly. Thanks.

Chrisisall

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Originally posted by captainreynolds42:
worst line in firefly hands down

Random villager : she's a witch

Mal: yeah but she's our witch

Good lord did joss get bruce campbell to write that for him


If someone trys to kill you, you kill em right back

---

Let's just take a moment to examine the line in it's entirety and in context before we go casting aspersions on one of my favorites, shall we?

The line is: "Yeah, but she's our witch, so cut her the Hell down!"

Remember, that the emotional context of the episode is River and Simon's search for a home, a place where they can be "Safe." Earlier in the episode, Mal has made another reference to kicking them off his ship if Simon can't control River. When the hill folk's teacher asks, "If it isn't here, where is it?" referring to Simon's home, he can't answer her. Serenity isn't their home yet because they haven't been accepted as part of the crew/ family. When Simon sees Serenity take off without them, he's convinced that the captain has abandoned them, so when the BDHs arrive just in the nick of time, he's astonished.

When Mal says, "She's our witch," he is both acknowledging all of the things that make River "different," scary, inconvenient, etc. *and* claiming her as part of his crew/ family in the same breath. That moment, when Mal claims River, and by extension Simon, is the climax of the episode distilled into two perfect words. "Our witch."

Later, Mal has to spell this out for Simon, who still can't quite believe that he's no longer in danger of being rejected by this new father figure. "You're on my crew." "Yeah, but you don't even like me." "You're on my crew. Why we still talkin' about this?"

Joss is a cinematic poet. For the ideas that really matter, he distills his stories down into only what *needs* to be said, and trusts the viewer to infer the rest.

*** *** ***
The woods are the only place where I can see a clear path.

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The line in HoG where she says "I've been waiting for you to kiss me since I showed you my gun" C'mon. The delivery and line itself bother me because it could have been a passionate touching moment. And like we geeks need another big guns cause raging libidos scene in anything.

Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!

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