The toughest call: best SINGLE Buffy episode in human history....

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, May 20, 2006 00:08
VIEWED: 40870
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CHRISISALL

Friday, September 16, 2005 12:58 AM (P)

I may just be riding the recent high, but for my money (so far) it's gotta be Fool For Love. What a frickin' great 45 minutes!!!

Remind me, y'all, is there any better?

Out...for...a...walk...Chrisisall

TIGER

Friday, September 16, 2005 1:09 AM (P)

Not so tough a call for me - The Body without a doubt. Not just the best of Buffy, but some of the best television in history.

STAKETHELURK

Friday, September 16, 2005 1:10 AM (P)

"Fool for Love" is definitely kick-ass (but you haven't seen the whole story 'til you watch its twin episode in Angel Season Two). As for all time great, of those you've seen I think "Hush" and "Restless" are both contenders. But for the series as a whole, for me it comes down to "The Body" vs. "Once More With Feeling." The first one offers complete emotional honesty in a way rarely seen on TV, while the second takes what is usually a terrible idea and then turns it into brilliance.

What Whedon tried to do on all three of his shows was show the world what TV can be like, that it doesn't have to remain stale, that it can be cinematic and deep and so many other things it rarely is. The four episodes I singled out I feel are those in which he achieves this objective to its fullest, doing something no one else would (or no one else would do right) and showing us how great it could be.

Still, "Fool for Love," awesome. I loves me my vampire flashbacks--always shows how the characters have grown (or not).

MILT

Friday, September 16, 2005 1:21 AM (P)

I have to go with Passion. Angelus is just so evil in the episode and i always like the voice over.

CHRISISALL

Friday, September 16, 2005 1:39 AM (P)

Hush was brilliant, as was Passion.
I've yet to see The Body, so maybe I'll just 'hush' until then and just read the opinions of others.

And I'm not forgetting The Zeppo, it's just that that was mostly a yuckfest, and not on the emotional level of others mentioned so far.

'Bad Eggs' Chrisisall

WIBBLEDTODEATH

Friday, September 16, 2005 1:50 AM (P)

Once more with feeling.

I really love all the epps so far mentioned. And Fool for Love would have to be one of my favs....so I dont think you are 2 far off the mark.

But hands down...you cant beat that musical.

----------------------------------------
Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life. (:~D

RICKKER

Friday, September 16, 2005 2:06 AM (P)

Once More With Feeling, hands down. As mentioned before all otheres were top knotch, but the musical rocks, And I'm not one for musicals

BLINKER

Friday, September 16, 2005 2:19 AM (P)

And once more, with feeling, the greatest episode of Buffy is...

"Some Assembly Required."

No, wait, it's "Once More With Feeling."

_________
Sliders: Gate Haven - http://slidersweb.net/blinker

JACQUI

Friday, September 16, 2005 2:26 AM (P)

Sucker punch us in the gut, why don't you?

*One* single episode? Can't be done. Too many categories.

So I'm gonna do what everyone has already done and pick several.

Once More, With Feeling." 'Cause anything that can get my fiance to *sing* with me rocks (getting me to sing is easy, hell, I sing to cornflake commercials). It was done spectacularly, the story, the songs, the effect and the absolute FUN that flowed off the screen from the actors/directors/writers/camera people/everyone involved was hypnotic. I loved it.

The Body:

Select to view spoiler:

It was such a beautiful way to say goodbye. And the whole "not painting the object, but painting the space *around* the object" theme that ran through the episode was brilliant. Too easy to show bits of Joyce, a lot more effective to show the spaces and rifts she'd left behind. And Emma Caulfield, breaking down? Makes me *cry*. Not a lot of things make me cry.

(The Gift gets a mention for also making me cry, but not so much).

Prophecy Girl: This gets overlooked a lot for the later episodes, but... remember when Buffy as a show was this good? "Giles, I'm sixteen, I don't wanna die." Breaks my heart, everytime. "Think up something cool, tell him I said it". She rocked.

So, there you go, my absolute favourites and that's not even including my character favourites or my season favourites.

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

JADEHAND

Friday, September 16, 2005 2:50 AM (P)

Not a tough call.
"Hush"
Very closely followed by
"Once more with Feeling"
"The Gift"

I don't remember the names of all the eps. It's easier with Firefly. Which was Fool for Love?

Then of course there's any ep with Faith.

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"Dreaming the dream that only the sleepless know."

YOSAFFBRIDGE

Friday, September 16, 2005 3:19 AM (P)

Sorry, it's gotta be three.....

Smashed
Wrecked
Gone

LUCKYSPENCER7

Friday, September 16, 2005 4:22 AM (P)

yeah, The Gift made me cry too, although I'm not sure I'd place it as one of my favs.

I think I'll say Restless because it's so random and makes no sense, but it cracks me up so much every time I see it. cheese guy, lol...

SMITH

Friday, September 16, 2005 7:06 AM (P)

It seems sort of sacreligious to choose just one... but who am I to refuse?
"Storyteller". It makes me laugh every time.
"We are as gods, oh we-e are as gods..."

Jimmy Bond: You can't shoot me! I have a very low threshold of death. My doctor says I can't have bullets enter my body at any time.

QUICKSAND

Friday, September 16, 2005 7:24 AM (P)

AAAHHHHHHHH DON'T MAKE ME CHOOSE!!!!!

I agree with an earlier post. If I absolutely must choose, I go with "The Body," with "Hush" being a close, close, CLOSE second.

The thing with the show and me though, I've always divided "Joss episodes" into a completely different category from "everyone else." Don't get me wrong. The show is great. But when Joss did an episode, it found a way to be.... greater. The difference is more obvious on eps of "Angel," but it's still visible on "Buffy."

Of the non-Joss episodes, I'd give mad props to "Halloween" and a close, close second to "Earshot." I don't remember who wrote "Earshot" (for the longest time I thought it WAS Joss), but as an interesting side note, the guy who wrote "Halloween" only wrote that one episode, ever..... and more recently, wrote the movie "Red Eye." Weird.

Anyway, that's the best I can do, at choosing one.

CAPTRULZ

Friday, September 16, 2005 7:50 AM (P)

I agree it is a tough call coming up with just ONE episode... however, the main episodes I have watched till the disc wore out (not quite, but) would be "Once More with Feeling" followed closely by "Hush" and "Fool for Love", then the last 4 eps of s-5 and first 2 eps of s-6, then.....

It is ALMOST imposible to have just one favourite episode....

FRAY101

Friday, September 16, 2005 8:03 AM (P)

Beer Bad. Without a doubt.

OK, kidding. So hard to choose, but I suppose because I can listen to the music over & over again, I'm going to go for Once More With Feeling. Although its an obvious choice its the one which immediately springs to mind, which must mean something!

Lie to Me had some great one-liners (mostly at Angel's expense), I've always thought quite fondly of that one.

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ZOOT

Friday, September 16, 2005 8:28 AM (P)

Not in any way hard, CIA ...

Without a doubt "Hush" closely followed by Something Blue and Once More With Feeling!!

***************************************

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

PURPLEBELLY

Friday, September 16, 2005 9:24 AM (P)

Damage -- and don't tell me it's not Buffy because for me it's a distillation of essential Buffy that just happens to appear in another TV series

GROUNDED

Friday, September 16, 2005 9:26 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Yosaffbridge:
Sorry, it's gotta be three.....

Smashed
Wrecked
Gone

Seriously?? You thought Gone was good TV??? Ah well it takes all sorts I suppose.

As people have pointed out, it's pretty hard to choose, especially when some eps, though brilliant, have less rewatchability than others ;) I never get tired of Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered, but it hardly qualifies as an all-time fave. I think I'd probably have to say Lie to Me, but if I keep thinking about it I change my mind every 30 seconds or so ;)

GROUNDED

Friday, September 16, 2005 9:28 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Damage -- and don't tell me it's not Buffy because for me it's a distillation of essential Buffy

Are you saying you're incapable of picking from the 144 actual Buffy eps? ;)

THESOMNAMBULIST

Friday, September 16, 2005 9:34 AM (P)

The best BUFFY Episode ever for me was:

HUSH

For me The Gentlemen are the best horror creations since Frankenstiens 'Monster' and Count Dracula.

Absolutley brilliant - pure horror!

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

CHRISISALL

Friday, September 16, 2005 9:15 PM (P)

A lot here are picking Hush, and while it WAS great, really great, it just didn't have enough creative combat for me (I'm so shallow, I know).

Picking just one is REALLY hard, and I love that so many are up to the challenge!

It was literally the hardest question I could think of Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Friday, September 16, 2005 9:42 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Jadehand:

I don't remember the names of all the eps. It's easier with Firefly. Which was Fool for Love?

The one where you saw Spike as William, the poet, before he became a vamp. Boxer Rebellion?

Remember?

Five words or less Chrisisall

UNCHARTEDOUTLAW

Friday, September 16, 2005 9:45 PM (P)

Actually...not so tough... Hush.

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River: "So we'll integrate non-progressional evolution theory with God's creation of Eden. Eleven inherent metaphoric parallels already there. Eleven. Important number. Prime number. One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. Noah's ark is a problem."

THESOMNAMBULIST

Friday, September 16, 2005 9:51 PM (P)

Hey Chrisisall.

I guess that's the great thing about Buffy. It did have so many elements to draw an individual into the show. Drama. Romance, Humour, Action and Horror. For me personally being a fan of horror, I always loved the shows that best explored this....

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

BATMARLOWE

Friday, September 16, 2005 10:09 PM (P)

Gee Chris, how did I know from the title of this thread that it was one of yours?

Well, you already know how I feel about "Fool for Love". I was telling you about that one before you watched it.

Face it, you're going to watch Season 6 for "Once More with Feeling". Just to see what everyone's talking about. Or at least rent the disc it's on.

OMWF is definitely battling FfL for my personal top spot. For the coveted (at least in my little brain) third spot there are so many. All of the worthy contenders have been mentioned and I can think of a few more.

YoSaffBridge: Since there were no emoticons, I'm going to assume you were kidding when you said "Smashed", "Wrecked", "Gone". In which case, I applaud your sense of humor. If not, I apologize. You are, needless to say, entitled to your opinion.

But Chris, if you're going to put a gun to my head I'll go with "Fool For Love". That one has just stayed with me more. But I reserve the right to change my mind. OMWF is truly an impressive work. And I can sing that one. I've trying singing "Fool for Love" and it just isn't nearly as lyrical.

GROUNDED

Friday, September 16, 2005 11:16 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by batmarlowe:
OMWF is truly an impressive work. And I can sing that one.

Yeah but plotwise it's dodgeeeee!

CALHOUN

Friday, September 16, 2005 11:31 PM (P)

I cant really pin down one episode but what I will say is that I have made a 13 track mp3 album of all the songs on "Once More With Feeling" and all family love it, ranging from my 4yr old to my own 36yr old self. Could be i'm weird.. Its been said.

BATMARLOWE

Friday, September 16, 2005 11:46 PM (P)

Yeah, I made my own mp3 and CD from it too. Then bought the soundtrack when it came out. The soundtrack has better fidelity but a couple of songs don't have quite the same "feel" without being from the episode. I'm thinking of "What You Feel" (no pun intended) in particular. I want to hear the taps when I listen to it and it sounds really strange without them.

BATMARLOWE

Friday, September 16, 2005 11:50 PM (P)

Grounded,

I can think of a couple of spots where I might agree with you. But of course, we can't discuss this until Chris has seen it.

CHRISISALL

Saturday, September 17, 2005 12:09 AM (P)

If you all 'spoiler' it, I promise not to read it!

A long time ago I asked if I could just get S3 and end there. Some said I could, and some were in error.

"They lied! They lied to me!"
"I told you, they would never consciously betray the Buffster."

Lookin' so foward to The Body.
Buff S5 is a real nice way to keep busy for the next few days, then it's a Firefly marathon just before the BDM!!!!
YeeeHaaahhh!

Who's WITH me? Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Saturday, September 17, 2005 12:13 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by batmarlowe:

Y
But Chris, if you're going to put a gun to my head I'll go with "Fool For Love". That one has just stayed with me more.

I laughed, I cried, and I went "Oooh!" more than once...what more can you ask for?

And that slo-mo walk away shot from the Rebellion was worthy of David Lean!!!!

William Chrisisall

MIKEYMO

Saturday, September 17, 2005 12:40 AM (P)

Ack! The pressure!

OK. The list I'm working from is:

Becoming
Graduation Day
Hush
Fool For Love
The Body
The Gift
Once More w/ Feeling
Conversations w/ Dead People

Oof. This REALLY isn't easy (I'm actually a little impressed that I was able to single out these 8). I think I'll have to go with Graduation Day, because it represented much of what the show was to me. But really, I could make an argument for just about any of these.

Fool For Love is the episode that made me a Spike fan. Well, The Yoko Factor helped too...

"Be ashamed to die before you have scored some victory for humanity." -- Horace Mann

PIFFLE101

Saturday, September 17, 2005 1:01 AM (P)

Him or Dopplegangland..Still deciding.

My fav ep of firefly -Safe.

"It's okay to leave them to die."
"I'm a leaf on the wind."
---------------------------
Im required to do this: Serenity is coming. 9/30/05

CHRISISALL

Saturday, September 17, 2005 1:26 AM (P)

Here's a hard question Mikey, is the best ep of Buffy better than the best ep of Angel or Firefly?
(Ha! I AM evil!!!!)
Can't speak for Angel, having seen so few, but my fav (Fool For Love) isn't (IMHO) better than Objects In Space (or Out Of Gas, or Serenity, for that matter), but it's damn close.

Evil, tormenting Chrisisall

BATMARLOWE

Saturday, September 17, 2005 3:05 AM (P)

I know you didn't ask me but my answer to your question is "yes" if FIREFLY isn't in the equation. I don't think I can be objective when comparing great BUFFY episode to great FIREFLY episodes. Because...well...because my heart belong to the Slayer! There, I said it!

Mikey has a great list of faves there it's really hard to choose one.

When you get to "The Body". Take a deep breath and be ready.

PERIDIDDLE

Saturday, September 17, 2005 5:58 AM (P)

Gah....that's almost impossible.

Of all of them, I would be able to get it down to a few..."Hush", "Restless", "Fool for Love", "Once More With Feeling", "Grave", "Conversations With Dead People" and "Chosen".

Oh yeah. I'm SO good at this. It's late, I can't even begin to explain my choices and narrow it down, but just my $.02

"Bwaa...it's kind of a warrior...strikes fear into the hearts of..."

RUXTON

Saturday, September 17, 2005 6:24 AM (P)

Chris,

The best Buffy for me was, unquestionably, the very first episode ever. I had been so jaded with the crapola on TV before then, and was talking about that with an out-of-state buddy on the phone. I told him I was going to try this new show (the very first time it aired). He said he had seen a movie by the same name, so he wasn't interested in a TV show "spinoff."

At the first commercial break, I called him and told him this was the finest thing I had ever seen on TV. My opinion has not changed a whit in all these years.

I recall my immense surprise -- and joy! -- when Darla revealed herself for the first time. I recall the incredible beauty of young Sarah/Buffy, waking in the morning after her odd dreams. There, too, was the overall brilliant concept, the superb acting, the sweet and wonderfully incorporated introductions of Willow, Xander, and Giles, and so much more, hints of what was to come. Yes, the overall concept was refined and distilled later, but it was all there in that very first complete episode (as I recall, the whole 2-hour thing was shown at the very first airing).

For me, Firefly was ground-breaking, and brilliant too, but Buffy was earth-shattering.

TOMANTA

Saturday, September 17, 2005 6:45 AM (P)

I normally stray away from doing "top lists" or "the best of " because it's too damn hard for me to decide.

Not so in this case, although it gets tricky after the top 5 or so. Here's my top 10 Buffy Episodes in Human History...

10. I Only Have Eyes for You
I just love the clever role reversal at the end of the episode and how the dialogue between the possessed Buffy and Angel fits perfectly with their relationship at that point in time. Very clever writing.

9. Becoming 1&2
There's essentially two things that get episodes on this list. Clever writing, or sad endings (or both). This one is the sad ending. Downright depressing, and a little surprising for that time in television. Buffy helped bring forth a minor revolution in television storytelling. Season 2 was a big part of that.

8. Restless
Along with Hush, one of the few redeeming qualities of Season 4... but amount of thought put into the writing of this episode, combined with the great directing and cinematography makes this one worthy of the top 10.

7. Conversations with Dead People
By season 7, Buffy appeared to have run out of creative ideas. Except for CWDP. Yet another break from traditional Buffy storylines (nearly every time they do that they do it with lots of style). The added bonus is that each story told is very differently (and Dawns gets bonus creepy points).

6. Tabula Rasa
"Randy Giles! I knew there was a reason I hated you! Why not just call me 'Horny' Giles or Desperate For A Shag' Giles?" + the entire gang screaming in fear at the vampires. Enough said.

5. Seeing Red
This is the one that rips our hearts out. There are several Buffy episodes that tug at our emotional strings, but none do so as well as this one. Seeing Red is the one that does it the best. If only the rest of the episode was as good as the very end. Much like the end of Season 2 of Angel in that regard.

4. The Zeppo
Zeppo is just good fun. I think it has gotten mixed reception among the fans... but this is another one of the episodes that, like many on my list, rewrite the rules of the show if not television alltogether. The Zeppo manages to focus on someone other than Buffy, providing significant character development and poke fun of the show at the same time.

3. Once More, With Feeling
Ah, the musical. This episode is just a lot of fun. There is no other show that could pull off a musical episode and still take itself seriously, much less do so with as much style as OMWF.

2. The Body
An incredibly touching episode, artfully done. Who knew that Buffy would be one of the best shows ever to handle the subject of death?

And the Number one Buffy episode in human history is....
1. Hush
Hush is just brilliant television. From the super-creepy bad guys, the creative commentary on communication, the brilliant writing that made the episode work, to the humor... this is as good as it gets.

---
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."

MIKEYMO

Saturday, September 17, 2005 1:51 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Here's a hard question Mikey, is the best ep of Buffy better than the best ep of Angel or Firefly?
(Ha! I AM evil!!!!)

This is a near-impossible question to answer. You bastard. It's really hard to compare the three shows, since Buffy was much more epic in tone (and was the only one of the three to make me cry). Angel had some fantastic episodes, like Redefinition, Waiting in the Wings, Spin the Bottle, and Smile Time (and many others)... and obviously Firefly had some near-perfect episodes as well - OiS and OoG come to mind.

Then there's the definition of the word Best. Is it the amount of emotional resonance the episode had for me? The quality of the humor/drama/both? Are we talking about capital-q Quality here?

This is like the old Superfans SNL sketch where they ask "Bears vs. Bulls". I feel like if I answer one way or the other, the world might just collapse upon itself. It's doubly hard because my favorite episode of each of these shows tends to change from day to day (in fact, today I may have claimed The Body as the best Buffy episode).

OK, I guess I'll say that yes, the best episode of Buffy is better than the best episodes of Angel and Firefly. Oof. It hurts just to type that. Damn you, Chris. You have just made an enemy for life.

EMBERS

Saturday, September 17, 2005 2:07 PM (P)

Best ever: Once More With Feeling (absolutely)
Better than anyone else ever does: Hush

But of course I think the worst episode of Buffy is still better than most of the stuff you see on TV
better writing
better directing
and more engaging actors

edited to add: oh, I didn't get to the second question...
Yes, the best episodes of Buffy ARE better than anything done on Angel or Firefly,
but Firefly didn't have a fair chance: it was barely started before it was so crueling taken away from us...
I would say that the movie 'Serenity' is REALLY brilliant!
I personally never thought that Angel reached it's full potentional, but there were many amazing episodes.

The point about OMWF and Hush is that they were both so surprising, such complete departures over what anyone does on TV.
Well I guess others have tried musical episodes, but they usually suck so bad that they would go on the worst list...they are not the incredible brilliance of OMWF. When is the last time anyone EVER tried a silent episode on TV? LOL

CHRISISALL

Saturday, September 17, 2005 2:27 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:

The best Buffy for me was, unquestionably, the very first episode ever.

Welcome to the Hellmouth was so good (especially compared to the Buffy movie) that I almost couldn't take it all in, it took me time to get up to speed (much like the first time I saw Star Wars). Once I realized the level it was going for, I adjusted. It was Joss busting out of his writing cocoon and controling the whole thing, he loved it and it shows.

Chrisispointy

CHRISISALL

Saturday, September 17, 2005 2:59 PM (P)

Saw The body last night.

THE REST OF THIS POST WILL HAVE SPOILERS

If you've never lost a loved one, that ep will give you the closest feeling of what it might be like.
If you have lost a loved one, you know that Joss hit the mark uncomfortably close.

The sudden-ness, the loss of control, and being reduced to a child again, it was all there.

When Buffy started CPR and cracked Joyce's rib, I was already in tears. It woke up a memory I hadn't thought of in more than a decade; when my mom died in our home, and was being carried downstairs on the stretcher in a body bag. The last few steps at the bottom of the stairs had a narrow turn, and one of the guys dropped the stretcher. It made this loud ratchidy-crashing noise as it hit the bottom stairs, and I thought "You can't drop my mom! There's no dropping allowed today- my mom just died..."
It was an akward, absurd moment.
Joss captured the whole tornado of emotion and absurd reality in that show.
It was brilliant tv. Not my favourite, but great.
It was like they took a step out of fantasy to deal with a reality for a moment, and as such, I can't say it was the best 'Buffy' episode, But I can say it was the best episode of television I've seen (IMHO).

But being rather close to this subject may have me a little emotional right now...these are just my first thoughts on that ep.
Edit: Okay, REAL emotional.

Chrisisall

BATMARLOWE

Sunday, September 18, 2005 6:34 AM (P)

Oh, man! Sorry for your loss. I can't imagine how hard that moment must have hit you.

It's a great episode. And I don't know if any TV show or movie has ever dealt with death (of a loved one or not) in the way Joss did. You just can't believe you're watching a TV show when you experience it. And that's what it is--an experience.

Not that I ever put much stock in the Emmys, but "The Body" was not nominated for any awards for writing, or directing, or best single episode or anything like that. And SMG was not nominated for Best Actress.

It is arguably the best episode. It's certainly on the short-list. But for obvious reasons it's hard to name it your "favorite".

The sailing gets a little smoother (how could it not?) from here on out, but it ain't no picnic.

EMBERS

Sunday, September 18, 2005 10:54 AM (P)

I think one of the strengths of 'The Body'
is that Joss went ahead and dealt with his own experiences of when he lost his Mother,
the commentary to 'The Body' is one of the most releaving about his own personal experiences,
and it is well worth listening to.

Also you'll notice he didn't have a musical score in the background,
which adds to the feeling of stark reality,

All the actors really do an incredible job in 'The Body',
SMG is really at her best,
Emma's Anya was never as heartbreaking as in this episode

JACQUI

Sunday, September 18, 2005 11:04 AM (P)

The Body is the first tv episode of anything that made me cry. I agree with your statement, if you haven't experiened death on a personal level than this episode is the closest you can get to it, if you have then this will take you back to that.

Everything was done superbly. And with such resonance.

SMG was brilliant, but it was Emma Caulfield that made me blubber. I still can't watch that scene without tearing up.

"And Joyce will never have any more fruit punch and no one will explain to me why".

I have met Emma and she explained about that scene, I know the reality behind it, but the emotion of it overrides it everytime.

It's episodes like this that make me remember how much I loved Buffy as a show.

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

JACQUI

Sunday, September 18, 2005 11:14 AM (P)

Oh... man... I just looked at the episode list for season five...

You've got some tough episodes ahead, buddy. We're here if you need us.

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

CHRISISALL

Sunday, September 18, 2005 1:46 PM (P)

Thanks, J.
I made it throught to Tough Love.

So Will took on a god. Hmmph. Was she high?
Brave, but foolish...

If I could handle The Body, I think I'm ready for anything. The last time I cried like that was at the very end of a tv movie titled The Day After, about a family surviving after a nuclear war in a small town. *I was going to describe the scene, but I won't in case you want to see it, if you have, then I really don't need to...*
Well, if you feel the need to keep Kleenex in business, see that too.

ChrisisallaboutkickinGlorysass

CHRISISALL

Sunday, September 18, 2005 1:48 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

Also you'll notice he didn't have a musical score in the background,
which adds to the feeling of stark reality

You know, with all that was happening, I didn't even notice....

Usually music-aware Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Sunday, September 18, 2005 1:55 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by batmarlowe:
Oh, man! Sorry for your loss. I can't imagine how hard that moment must have hit you.

Thanks, but it was like, 18 years ago. I was just surprised how that episode tapped into buryied grief so easily- and you can imagine, 'cause you've seen that episode...

Chrisisall

JACQUI

Sunday, September 18, 2005 2:11 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
So Will took on a god. Hmmph. Was she high?
Brave, but foolish...

Very cool moment...

"I owe you PAIN!".

Not to mention Giles and the little glory demon (oh, I forget their names now). Of course, Buffy's a dumbass. Of *course* Will was gonna go after Glory. And... oh... poor Tara.

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

GWENHARKER

Sunday, September 18, 2005 2:23 PM (P)

I have Three:

Prophecy Girl
Becoming I/II
Passion

CHRISISALL

Sunday, September 18, 2005 2:57 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Jacqui:

"I owe you PAIN!".

And she did the 'beams' from her hands like the Emperor did in Jedi; cool!

Luke, watch out for the 'beams' Chrisisall

BATMARLOWE

Sunday, September 18, 2005 3:20 PM (P)

It's hard to remember that the names of Glory's demons. She rarely uses them. She usually calls them something like "worthless festering pustule".

Why is Buffy a dumbass?

I just did a fast scan through the episode and must have missed the scene with Giles and the Glorydemon. What's going on there?

This is nitpicky but something I always wondered about. I can accept that Tara is partially mind-sucked, but it seems to me that Glory didn't have her fingers in Tara's head any less long than those who ended up completely mindless and strapped down in Sunnydale Hospital.

Like I said--no biggie, just an observation.

BATMARLOWE

Sunday, September 18, 2005 3:29 PM (P)

Well, lessee, Chris..."Spiral", "The Weight of the World", and "The Gift". But like you said if you can get through "The Body" you can get through anything. Keep us posted.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, September 18, 2005 4:31 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by GwenHarker:

Prophecy Girl
Becoming I/II
Passion

I'm guessing you're not a season 6/7 person....

Good old days Chrisisall

GWENHARKER

Sunday, September 18, 2005 4:34 PM (P)

Season 6 was a good Character development season but I just didn't enjoy it (depressed me too much) and Season 7.. well it could've been handled a bit better IMO.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, September 18, 2005 4:52 PM (P)

Dark I can deal with, but depressing...sort of ...depresses me.
Do you own them?
Should I?

Bracing for Season 5 finale Chrisisall

BECSTHEBEAST

Sunday, September 18, 2005 4:54 PM (P)

ok coming in here late (that little thing called life has got in my way recently)

the most inventive two episodes are hush and once more with feeling - and both because they cope with the fact that not all communication is talking - although of course we all love the scripts of the whedonverse 'cos of the dialolgue, a lot of it is whats behind the dialogue. When someone gets the chance to both write and direct (and be damned good at both) this is what you get - reading the script for hush is really interesting as you see all the little nuances written in

but my favourite episode is dopplegangland 'cos its the first i saw - well half saw while i was waiting for someone in a house that had tv with extra channels - and then they started selling those video box sets two for one and there you have it - a house of three women in their mid-twenties becoming very quickly obsessed

i have never seen an episode of tv like the body -the scene where willow is trying to chose which top is most appropriate to wear really moved me 'cos i felt like it was saying we've never know what the 'right thing' to do in situations like these

hmm - i think hang the cinema now - a night in watching old buffy episodes thats all i wanna do now

smile pretty and watch your back

GWENHARKER

Sunday, September 18, 2005 4:58 PM (P)

Yeah, I have no problems with Dark stuff but my anti-depressants can only help so much.

Quote:
Do you own them?
Should I?

Huh?

CHRISISALL

Sunday, September 18, 2005 5:11 PM (P)

I mean do you own seasons 6 and 7 on dvd, or *shakes off the horror of it* tape?

Chrisisadvdnut

GWENHARKER

Sunday, September 18, 2005 5:15 PM (P)

Oh! No, I don't own them. If you want to own all the seasons, then by all means, buy them, but I just don't see many season 6 episodes that I would really want to watch over again, I do, however, own 1 - 3 becuase I find that I'm more inclined to rewatch them.

With the exceptions of such great episodes as The Body, Hush, Checkpoint and the Gift (and other great season four episodes like Restless), The first three seasons were Buffy at it's best. Again, all IMO.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, September 18, 2005 5:29 PM (P)

I agree that 1-3 were when Joss was at his most concentrated during the series.The end of 2 and whole of 3 getting my vote for excellence.

Chrisisall

JACQUI

Sunday, September 18, 2005 9:58 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by batmarlowe:
It's hard to remember that the names of Glory's demons. She rarely uses them. She usually calls them something like "worthless festering pustule".

Why is Buffy a dumbass?

I just did a fast scan through the episode and must have missed the scene with Giles and the Glorydemon. What's going on there?

This is nitpicky but something I always wondered about. I can accept that Tara is partially mind-sucked, but it seems to me that Glory didn't have her fingers in Tara's head any less long than those who ended up completely mindless and strapped down in Sunnydale Hospital.

Like I said--no biggie, just an observation.

1. Quick scan of the guides... Jinx, Dreg, Murk, Slook, Gronx. That's what I've come up with. Jinx and Dreg are called by name quite often.

2. It really doesn't take a genius to figure out that while Willow is playing all meek and mild, she's really planning to go after Glory by herself. She was all hyped up and, then, what... one or two words by Buffy and she was going to just sit back with her tail between her legs? Gah. Buffy used to be a little bit clued in with her friends.

3. While the Glory demons are following the scoobies, Giles is in the Magic Box with Anya and Willow. He finds one of the demons and it's all "I'm not telling you anything, you can't make me". And, cool as anything, Giles asks the girls to get rope, they turn around and there's a high pitched scream... they turn back and the demon is all "Oh, I'll tell you anything you want, just stop it, stop iiiiiiiiit" and Giles is all Ripper calm and cool.

It's nifty. I love Ripper Giles.

4. From what I recall, they wanted to keep Tara in the hospital longer, but by this point the mental ward was so overcrowded that they were at crisis point and had to send a lot of people home, especially those with family who could care for them. Ben was telling Buffy this in... oh... um... 'listening to fear'? (which, you know, sounds really negligent to me, why didn't they transport them to a different hospital?). Tara obviously had a support system and people to care for her.

Chrisisall is not the only one able to fanwank for Joss. Buffy/Angel... you got a nitpick... bring it on.

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

JACQUI

Sunday, September 18, 2005 10:01 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I agree that 1-3 were when Joss was at his most concentrated during the series.The end of 2 and whole of 3 getting my vote for excellence.

A man after my own heart. Really.

There were some great episodes in the other seasons, but these are the classic ones. Absolutely. Everything just tied in brilliantly, very few loose threads.

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

CHRISISALL

Sunday, September 18, 2005 10:20 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Jacqui:

Chrisisall is not the only one able to fanwank for Joss. Buffy/Angel... you got a nitpick... bring it on.

How come Kendra didn't get a recall when Buffy's heart started again, she wasn't 'dead' that long....
*he pats himself on the back for a hard one*

Fanwank away, friend Chrisisall

RUXTON

Sunday, September 18, 2005 10:31 PM (P)

For some reason, reruns of Buffy just yesterday came back to the limited channels I pay for. I watched, of course. This was the Thanksgiving episode when the Chumash indians came back to wreak vengeance, Spike was tied up (begging for brandy and blood), and Angel hid in the wings.

I hadn't watched any Buffy episodes in several years. I was struck with how totally engaging the show was, how intricate, how rich, how full of every emotion from joy to sorrow, the interplay of all the splendid actors, the lack of predictable fillers, the whole enchilada.

NOTHING on first-run TV today even comes close to this wonder of entertainment. Yesterday's experience made me painfully aware of how we so easily sacrifice our standards when nothing better is out there.

I tried to think of any shows that even come close, and found two. Gilmore Girls, for its rapid-fire delivery of clever conversation and intricate cross-plots; and reruns of She Spies (first year), which also had fast and witty interplay wrapped around almost unpredictable action.

Man, do I miss Joss' TV!

JACQUI

Sunday, September 18, 2005 10:42 PM (P)

Jesus. You don't hold back, do ye?

Jumping right in with a hard one, aren't you?

I think the main issue here is... they're girls, not items you can launch a factory recall on.

"Here's some awesome power! Go play, little girl and have a nice, EARLY AND BRUTAL death while you're at it... Oh, wait, come here so we can extract it again. Our mistake, we don't really need you."

The whole slayer essence thing is sketchy throughout the series, from day one. It's never fully explained what the process is, how it's gotten and passed on or what not. Without spoiling your for s7, I can't really go in to where it comes from, either.

My theory is this: when Buffy died in 'Prophecy Girl' (and she was out longer than a few seconds, she was lying in that pool for a while before Xander and Angel found her), her heart had stopped, so it was a technical 'death' in the sense that it fulfilled the prophecy regarding her and the Master, so it stands to reason it would be a 'death' enough to fulfil the necessary obligations to call a new slayer.

A slayer's strength isn't just something handed to them on a platter. It's not as if it could be handed to anyone (again, so many s7 elements come into this argument, it pales without it, but what can I do?). There are specific girls out there, Kendra, Buffy and Faith just happen to be some of those girls. The actual 'slayerness' is passed on to them, but it's more of an awakening to powers they already have.

So that, although the 'slayerness' was passed to Kendra, when Buffy is resurrected she retains her 'strengths' as they are, because they're already part of her.

Joss has said, in many interviews, that the true slayer line passed on to Kendra and then Faith, it does not lie with Buffy at all (again, you'll get the full ramifications of this and why it's so important in later seasons).

Does that at least *begin* to answer your question?

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

CHRISISALL

Sunday, September 18, 2005 10:50 PM (P)

Actually, based on past peformance, I knew that you could do it, and you did. Thanks.

The Council has ordered a recall of all slayers minted 1998-99.....Chrisisall

JACQUI

Sunday, September 18, 2005 11:00 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
The Council has ordered a recall of all slayers minted 1998-99.....Chrisisall

Tee hee hee.

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

BATMARLOWE

Sunday, September 18, 2005 11:25 PM (P)

1. Yeah, Jinx and Dreg. Those do ring a bell.

2. I'll have to watch Buffy's "dumbass" scene.

3. I FF'd through it again but at a slower speed and caught it. I too, love seeing Giles in Ripper mode. I don't know how consistent this is...but it seems to me whenever he goes into Ripper mode he pulls out his hanky and wipes his hands instead of or in addition to his glasses. Sometimes the glasses come off too.

4. Still seems to me Tara isn't as "far gone" as Glory's other victims. She seems a little bit lucid, whereas the others are completely off their respective nuts.

BATMARLOWE

Sunday, September 18, 2005 11:48 PM (P)

Chris, is your Kendra question about when Buffy died at the end of "Prophesy Girl"? If so I am confused (even though Jacqui already answered your question--not that Jacqui's answer confused me).

Also, just wanted throw in my fourthing of the declaration that 2 and 3 are the best seasons.

Season 6? I strongly advise no more Season 6 talk until after you've seen "The Gift" and give us your reaction.

EMMA

Monday, September 19, 2005 10:56 AM (P)

Ok, for the primary reason that 'Bored now' has become a phrase in near daily usage in my vocabulary and is a yardstick for spotting Buffy-fans: The Wish

I know, such frivolity compared to the heavy-ness of everyone else but sometimes I just wanna have fun.

extremely dimensionally transcendental

BATMARLOWE

Monday, September 19, 2005 3:15 PM (P)

"The Wish" is a great episode. But since there are so many great episodes from Season 3 I have trouble singling one out to as a contender for single best episode, because it's like, "Fool for Love" or maybe "Once More with Feeling", or um...something from Season 3.

I've often wondered what it would be like to live in The Netherlands. Is The Netherlands synonomous with Holland or is one part of the other? I've never quote gotten it straight on that. People seem to differentiate as to whether or not they live in Holland or The Netherlands.

EMMA

Monday, September 19, 2005 4:01 PM (P)

The Netherlands is the name of the whole country, Holland is a region. The two are used interchangeably but most people though - including the Dutch, well except for a few very proud of their region who don't want to be labelled anything else.

It is a good place to live, very easy, but it is a bit puritanical (yes really) and bureaucratic at times. It is also one of the most racist places I have ever been to (now I am in trouble). For me as a white middle class person trying to learn their language it is great though - by and large friendly people and a beautiful country in its own right.

extremely dimensionally transcendental

BATMARLOWE

Monday, September 19, 2005 4:35 PM (P)

Puritanical!? But, but...Amsterdam! They have Amsterdam! And racist? I'm surprised to hear that too.

EMMA

Monday, September 19, 2005 5:21 PM (P)

I have Pm'd you, this is too off topic even for me...

Buffy, Season 3...very cool but I am a sucker for Season 6 (yes, really, someone has to be).

extremely dimensionally transcendental

CAPTAINCDC

Monday, September 19, 2005 6:20 PM (P)

Once More With Feeling is the best.

Followed by The Body, Hush and Restless.

---------------------------------------

The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason!

PACER234

Monday, September 19, 2005 6:58 PM (P)

This is my first post here, but have been a Joss Whedon fan from the very beginning so hopefully I'll feel at home here.

I feel like it's too impossible to narrow down a series of 7 incredibly different and unique seasons into one BEST episode ever. But I think everyone did a good job of pointing out the best ones, probably "Hush", "The Body" and "Once More With Feeling". All three proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that BTVS was the most original and unique show on TV at the time and quite possibly ever.

BUT, my favorite episode is "Something Blue". So hilarious on so many counts, while still progressing the story in some interesting ways.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

BATMARLOWE

Monday, September 19, 2005 7:07 PM (P)

Roger that! "Something Blue" also gets my vote for funniest episode.

Oh yeah, and welcome aboard!

CHRISISALL

Monday, September 19, 2005 7:47 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by batmarlowe:

Also, just wanted throw in my fourthing of the declaration that 2 and 3 are the best seasons.

Quick S5 overview:
Glory had the power of Godling, she came off to me as no true 'God'. I loved her characterization, though!
Buff vs. Drac was entertaining, if a little dorkey; the final fight was shiny.
Dawn was annoying.
Willow was awsome.
Xander has grown, and still has the funny.
The Body slayed me (in the tear-filled sense).
Anya is a real person to me now.
Spiral had supreme combat!
The Gift...really good, but I didn't groove to it.
After The Body, I was in no mood for a death written in merely to yank out what was left of my heart. I know she comes back, and then retires, cool, end of story for me.

I officially label myself a season 1-3 person (with an appreciation for 4).

And a "YIKES" aside, I already sold S5 to get 'Best of Spike', Fool For Love is an all time high for me!! And I got a couple of bucks left over...

End of my path Chrisisall

BATMARLOWE

Monday, September 19, 2005 8:44 PM (P)

Pretty much agree with everything you said, except: I don't find Dawn annoying. For the most part, I thought Buffy was too hard on her.

"The Gift" really blew me away. When it first aired, I knew there was gonna be a Season 6 and that it was gonna be on UPN. But I didn't know that Buffy was going to die.

But when Buffy realizes what the true meaning of "death is your gift" is...all I can remember is leaping off my couch and saying something along the lines of "Oh my God! No!"
And sat there both reeling and stunned as I heard her last words to Dawn and watched her die.

And I also thought it was perfect. And I congratulated Joss for making it such a powerful moment that was powerful not only because of what happened but the way Buffy's death made all the pieces of Season 5 come together.

And even though I knew she'd be back, it didn't lessen the impact of the ending of "The Gift". And I congratulated Joss on that too. I think it's at least one of the top 10 episodes.

She saved the world. A lot.

Season 6? As many of us have suggested (including me) you go to ANGEL Season 2 instead of BUFFY 6. Obviously, that's up to you.

You've already heard a lot of opinions about Season 6--get ready to hear more. It's the season over which most Buffyites clash.

CHRISISALL

Monday, September 19, 2005 8:58 PM (P)

Originally posted by batmarlowe:

She saved the world. A lot.

That almost got me....Chrisisall*snif*

SPIKEANDJEZEBEL

Monday, September 19, 2005 9:09 PM (P)

My knee-jerk instinct was to just say OMWF, as it is my personal favorite. (It inspired me to take up guitar, which I have now been playing for 4 years and can play all the songs from OMWF and the FF theme!)

...BUT, there are just so many good ones, that I decided to make a list of the best from each season.

...THEN, I realized I couldn't pick just one favorite from each year, so I whittled it down to two a season:

S1: Welcome to the Hellmouth and Prophecy Girl
S2: Surprise and Becoming (part 2)
S3: Doppelgangland and Earshot
S4: Hush and New Moon Rising
S5: Fool For Love and The Body
S6: OMWF and Villains
S7: Conversations with Dead People and Storyteller

Very-Honorable mentions: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered; Passion; The Wish; Graduation Day; Something Blue; Who Are You?; The Yoko Factor; Restless; Crush; The Gift; Bargaining; Entropy; Two to Go/Grave; Selfless; Chosen.

I hope that narrows it down a bit...!

"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care. Or indeed, why it should be necessary to prove it at all." -Kerr Avon

SPIKEANDJEZEBEL

Monday, September 19, 2005 9:12 PM (P)

D'OH - I forgot The Zeppo and The Initiative!

"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care. Or indeed, why it should be necessary to prove it at all." -Kerr Avon

BATMARLOWE

Monday, September 19, 2005 9:16 PM (P)

Originally written by Joss Whedon:

She saved the world. A lot.

It GOT me.

CHRISISALL

Monday, September 19, 2005 9:36 PM (P)

I guess I shoulda put some time in between The Body and The Gift....

More than two days, anyhow Chrisisall

BATMARLOWE

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 4:34 PM (P)

Emma,

I hate to interrupt this thread but it was the only way could thing of to contact you.

I clicked on "If you want to respond to Emma..." but all I got was your profile, which has no contact information. Yet you contacted me and there's nothing on my user profile at all.

You said "I Pm'd you". I guess I don't know what that means. Can you Pm me again to tell me how to Pm you?

Others on this thread: I apologize for the intrusion.

GROUNDED

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 5:10 PM (P)

Sorry BM, we can never forgive you...

KURAI

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 5:20 PM (P)

I personally feel the best episode will always be Becoming Part 2.

The last ten minutes...I simply remeber crying on the top of my bunk bed, because I was so young back then, hugging my stuffed animals close, crying my eyes out because of Angel passing. I was actually convinced at the time he was going to stay dead.

And my mean parents laughing at me in the living room. Jerks.

Then ofcourse, I'm a fan of the Hush, The Body and OMWF for filming and story aspects.

But Becoming Part 2 will always be my favorite.

And I'm very partial to...

Wild at Heart
Innocence
I only have Eyes for You
And pretty much all of season 3.

But again...Becoming Part 2.

"Close your eyes."

*melts into a puddle*

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:14 PM (P)

Another season 2/3 person, there are quite a few of us, I guess.

I miss Miss Calender Chrisisall

KURAI

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:07 AM (P)

Seasons 2 and 3 were the best, thats why ;)

You should see my copy of season 2...all battered up and worn out. Looks terrible compaired to the rest of my sets. Like season 7 is all pretty and shiny...but thats because no one watches it in my house.

I pull it out to watch Lies my Parents told me...on occasion. But other then that, it collects dust.

GROUNDED

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:31 AM (P)

I saw some of S7 on TV by chance yesterday. God it was awful... ;)

KURAI

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 2:53 PM (P)

*giggles*

OPPYH

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 3:39 PM (P)

The Body. Yup, That's the one.

LOVOK

Saturday, September 24, 2005 12:59 AM (P)

People are way too harsh on S7. Yes, it was one of the weaker seasons, but it is by no means *terrible*. I personally think S1 and S4 are both worse than S7. There's a lot of good stuff in there like Selfless, CWDP, Storyteller, Lies My Parents Told Me, and Chosen. Some more episodes I really liked include Lessons, Him, Dirty Girls, and Touched. Yes the writing and continuity was *beginning* to slip, but overall I still find a lot to love about S7. It's still 10 times better than anything else on TV.

Here's my Top 15 Buffy Episodes list:

1. 2x21 & 2x22 - Becoming
2. 6x07 - Once More, With Feeling
3. 2x17 - Passion
4. 2x14 - Innocence
5. 4x22 - Restless
6. 5x17 - The Body
7. 5x22 - The Gift
8. 4x10 - Hush
9. 3x21 & 3x22 - Graduation Day
10. 5x07 - Fool For Love
11. 7x05 - Selfless
12. 6x13 - Dead Things
13. 7x07 - Conversations With Dead People
14. 7x17 - Lies My Parents Told Me
15. 7x22 - Chosen
*Edit: I swapped Hush and The Body

Runner-ups:
3x08 - Lover’s Walk
3x09 - The Wish
3x18 - Earshot
6x03 - After Life
6x19, 6x20, 6x21, and 6x22 - Seeing Red, Villains, Two to Go, and Grave
7x16 - Storyteller

CHRISISALL

Saturday, September 24, 2005 2:06 AM (P)

Lovok, you left out Buffy vs. Dracula!

Xanderisall

KAREL

Saturday, September 24, 2005 5:27 AM (P)

Very tough choice indeed, but I've never been so riveted to a TV set as when I saw "The Body". So realistic and well done that it seemed surreal, even to watch.

GROUNDED

Sunday, September 25, 2005 10:27 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Lovok:
Yes the writing and continuity was *beginning* to slip, but overall I still find a lot to love about S7. It's still 10 times better than anything else on TV.

People say this all the time and I can't understand why. Either they're not watching anything but Buffy and hence don't realise there are other shows that can easily compete with it, or they're so hopelessly devoted they can't bear the thought something might be better ;)

^ Don't take above too seriously if you really think S7 is 10 times better than anything else on TV.

LOVOK

Sunday, September 25, 2005 5:14 PM (P)

10 times is a bit of an exaggeration, but it was said to make a point that it still is better than almost anything out there, at least imo. Right now on TV there is absolutely nothing that interests me at all aside from "24" which is also starting to lose my interest (because it's basically the same thing every season). I found S7 of "Buffy" very entertaining. Yes there were slip ups and things left untouched, and that did bother me, but the positive of the season well outweighed the negative imo. It isn't one of my top seasons though.

I must admit that I have a soft spot for supernatural dramas/fantasy and great sci-fi; those are the TV shows I tend to want to watch, and "Buffy" just blew the competition away. I know there are other shows that are as good as "Buffy" in terms of quality in other genres, but I find most of the standard TV genres extremely boring. The thing I love about Whedon's shows so much is the blend of comedy, action, and drama. I simply don't see that anywhere else yet. Before I recently got into the Buffyverse all I would watch on TV was Seinfeld re-runs, ST:TNG re-runs, and "24." Anyway, this is just my opinion. :)

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