Which one is your least favourite Firefly episode?

POSTED BY: Khyron
UPDATED: Thursday, March 22, 2007 00:07
VIEWED: 56157
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KHYRON

Monday, October 17, 2005 2:22 AM

I'd have to say that Shindig is below par, compared to the very high standard that the series set.

Also, unfortunately, so is The Message, even though I thought there was some great drama (and a great musical score accompanying the funeral scene), but there were just too many loopholes in that one to make it enjoyable. Had the story been written in a way that avoids those loopholes but arrives at the same conclusion, then this might have been one of my favourites.

REGINAROADIE

Monday, October 17, 2005 2:38 AM

I'd have to go with "Heart of Gold" as the weakest ep. Mainly because it was the requisite SEVEN SAMURAI homage every western seems to make. They riffed on it to great comedic effect in the prologue to OUR MRS. REYNOLDS, but by HEART OF GOLD they fell into that trap.

It just wasn't that intriguing compared to the other eps, and Inara's "I'm leaving" statement at the end seems sort of taked on at the end, as opposed to something that came naturally.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
XANDER: (baby-talk) Who's a little fear demon?
C'mon, who's a lit-tle fear demon?
GILES: Don't taunt the fear demon.
XANDER: Why? Can he hurt me?
GILES: No, it's just… tacky.

TINFOIL

Monday, October 17, 2005 2:43 AM

The Message.

Ugh. I won't skip it, but I always consider skipping it. Of course, the worst Firefly is almost always better to anything else on television...

SICKDUDE

Monday, October 17, 2005 5:27 PM

I'll take "Train Job" for two reasons. First, I partially blame it for losing viewership. Second, I hate the way it starts with a cliche: a saloon brawl. The worst, most contrived way to start out a great series!

In defense of Heart of Gold, I really liked it. The part where Inara breaks down in her room gets to me.

"Don't say 'ka' until you've tried it." Daniel Jackson

MADMAN007

Tuesday, October 18, 2005 3:21 AM

I say "Out of Gas"........heee just kidding.
Yes, you are paying attention.

No, I say "Train Job" too, because it was the first show I saw when it first aired and like many others, I saw a weak episode and didn't watch another. I agree too many Western movie cliches....the train robbery....the saloon fight. If only FOX played the pilot first like normal networks.....coulda...woulda....shoulda.

I also say "Bushwacked" because it played like a poor man's version of Alien with the sole survivor becomming the alien. The fact that he slaughtered Alliance purple bellies was nice, but it was presented like cheap horror. And now, with what we know now from the movie (Spoiler disclaimer) it is hard to believe anyone can "become" a Reaver since their creation had to do with a failed attempt to control people.

Quote:
No.....this is what going mad feels like.

DIETCOKE

Tuesday, October 18, 2005 3:31 AM

Heart of Gold. It just wasn't as funny or fun.

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

WHISPER

Tuesday, October 18, 2005 3:49 AM

I really liked HoG, Shindig, and TM. The only ep that i ever skip over is Bushwacked. I'm not really sure why I don't like it as much. It just doesn't do it for me.

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SHADESIREN

Tuesday, October 18, 2005 4:41 AM

that's an easy question: Heart of Gold"

1) Weakest story - as mentioned, the Seven Samurai "rip off" type story that as said - is always done at SOME point in a western type setting.

2) Mal's move to sleep with Nandie - while I'm first to say that I understand the whys and hows and where fors, I got to see my Husband's point - If you REALLY REALLY love someone, you just DON'T sleep with someone else. This undermined my belief in Mal's love for Inara, and nearly broke my heart as much as it did hers. AGAIN - I KNOW WHY HE DID IT - hell, Inara practically TOLD HIM TO. STILL... got to go with my gut, and it says that was WRONG.

and um, beyond that, while it had some LOVELY funny moments and such, it just came across as the weakest to me.

and um, my husband seconds my vote lol

You know you want it - http://www.shadesiren.com (TEMPORARILY HOSTED at http://home.comcast.net/~shadesiren )

You know you need it - http://www.oberonrpg.com

EPALMER

Tuesday, October 18, 2005 7:42 AM

I am not a great film critic. However, I can tell you which ones I skip over.

If I only have time to watch a few episodes, I'll will typically skip, Bushwacked, Ariel, and the Message.

True, HoG may be a remake done many times, but I still enjoy it and the relationship issues still make me sad.

And I enjoy the Train Job. Who cares how "typical" something is if it is done well. How often in a typical bar fight does the hero basically and knowling start the fight.

Anyway, that is my two cents, not that it is worth even that.

THESOMNAMBULIST

Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Shadesiren:
2) Mal's move to sleep with Nandie - while I'm first to say that I understand the whys and hows and where fors, I got to see my Husband's point - If you REALLY REALLY love someone, you just DON'T sleep with someone else. This undermined my belief in Mal's love for Inara, and nearly broke my heart as much as it did hers. AGAIN - I KNOW WHY HE DID IT - hell, Inara practically TOLD HIM TO. STILL... got to go with my gut, and it says that was WRONG.

Shadesiren I agree with you about the episode but I gotta say an episode that has you feeling all this emotion I'd say is pretty much a successful episode. You may not like what you saw the characters do but the fact that you felt so much is testament to how 'real'(within the context of the show) that episode was... I say this because 'to err is human' and as you stated , you feel what Mal did was wrong. And that's right, what Mal did was wrong that's why the writers had him do this. Because real people, make bad and wrong decisions - that's kinda the point of that action....

Without these failing the characters become 'cartoons' who, can fall of buildings, get hit over the head with a frying pan and even swallow dynamite and never feel any kind of pain.

Although I don't particularly like the episode myself I always watch it for Inara's breakdown and crying which gets me everytime, more than any single scene in the entire season!!! It's simply so genuine and Morena does it so well, it feels so bloody real!!! I feel for her everytime. Now without Mals indescretion (and lets not forget he's not married to her) we wouldn't be witness to Inara's overwhelming pain, which for the first time allows us to realise just how in love with Mal she is. A sentiment which really had only been hinted at previously.

So y'know... For me it kinda works.

Cheers
The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

N0SKILLZ

Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:38 AM

I must say... it was the one were Fox canceled the show.. wait was that a real episode.. or jsut one in my head?

No seriously i think I gotta go with HoG even though it was the first one that really made me sad (with Inara crying and all)

-----------------
"It's not that there HAS to be a sequel. It's just that I've got so many IDEAS..."-Joss Whedon
*Andersen AFB, Guam*

RIVERGIRL

Tuesday, October 18, 2005 11:33 AM

I usually save bushwacked-our mrs reynolds, trash,objects in space till last

Also, I can kill you with my brain.

ARAWAEN

Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:51 PM

Safe is my least favorite. It has its moments (as do all the eps) but the whole fundamentalist kidnappers thing annoys me.

I am not fond of Train Job either because as a substitute pilot it turned me off to the series and I didn't watch Firefly anymore until it came out on DVD (if only FOX had shown the pilot first).

As for Mal sleeping with Nandi in HoG, I am sorry just cause you love someone doesn't mean you don't move on with your life. Inara is married to her work, Mal and her will never be together and happy as long as she remains a companion. I think Inara's hypocrisy is telling. If its 'just sex,' she wouldn't have gotten upset.

Knowledge is sorrow; they who know the most
Must mourn the deepest o'er the fatal truth,
The Tree of Knowledge is not that of Life.
-- Byron

DANTHEMAN

Monday, October 24, 2005 5:06 PM

Train Job is the worst...followed with Serenity (the movie). It's still way better than what's currently on TV..or in the theatres.

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Monday, October 24, 2005 8:34 PM

Heart of Gold was the only one that deeply disappointed me. When I show Firefly to new converts, to save time I usually skip that one and tell them "All you need to know about this episode is that Inara decides to leave because of her feelings for Mal."

I've seen HoG before, same plot and everything, in half a dozen bad westerns (not a big fan of westerns here), the only difference being the whorehouse is covered in tinfoil (explain to me again how that makes good solar sheeting??). There's nothing about the basic make-up of the episode that makes it uniquely Firefly, the crew's just been stuck in there because the cowboy was held up in traffic and couldn't make it.

Granted, there are still plenty of Firefly moments in there:
-Zoe and Wash arguing about having children
-River: "me too" and "I wonder who's in there"
-Inara breaking down. (Is it sadistic of me to enjoy that?)
-Mal feeling neither dirty nor girlish
That's because Firefly is a great show, and even its weakest episode has bits you have to adore.

The Message also had its weaknesses, but its basic concept was Firefly, not dinky western with Firefly superimposed, so it comes in a distant second place to HoG in the mediocrimeter.

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

JOYFULGIRL

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 6:48 PM

You know, I'd have to go with Shindig. I just didn't really buy the art direction in that episode, the dancing and costumes all seemed really phony, as compared to other episodes where I feel like they really achieve an authentic, lived in aesthetic feel.

JOSSISAGOD

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 8:00 PM

"Bushwacked" was not as good as the rest, the plot seemed too small for a series so great!

KHYRON

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 8:51 PM

I always thought of Bushwacked as an episode of two halves. I really enjoyed the first half, while the second half, in spite of some amusing moments during the interrogation scene, is quite dull and boring in comparison.

I'm surprised at the bashing Heart Of Gold is getting on here. I don't think it's that great, but I wouldn't have thought that so many people would be unhappy with it. Huh.

QUEENOFTHENORTH

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:24 PM

I don't know if I have a least fave . . . but if I had to pick one I'd say Train Job. It definitely had its moments, but it just wasn't as compelling as the other episodes. Not to me, anyway.

~~~~~~
No power in the 'verse can stop me.

SHINYRT

Sunday, October 30, 2005 4:43 AM

The Message was my least favourite episode but I'd watch again and again for Jayne and his hat!

She understands. She doesn't comprehend.

SNEAKER98

Sunday, October 30, 2005 7:14 AM

Wha...?

Am I missing something? Why are so many people hating The Message???

That's one of my favourites. I hear the explanations for Hog and Shindig (and understand them), but... why The Message? Can I get a good reason, please?

"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds

KAYLEESWEETIE

Sunday, October 30, 2005 8:29 AM

I wasn't a fan of the show when it first came out. My wife had to make me watch it. She knew it was something special.

That said, I don't think there are any bad episodes. The characters are all heads and tails above anything else sci-fi related since the original Star Trek. The writing is right up there with MASH, All in the Family, Mary Tyler Moore, etc.

I am in love with Kaylee, too. I can't believe Jewel hasn't been in any other movies since "Firefly" left TV.

Firefly: Best sci-fi in a long time.

MINRA

Monday, October 31, 2005 12:50 AM

I had to tack this on to this "worst episode" thread as well.

Gold was easily the dumbest espisode of the bunch. It just does not mesh with the character Mal and what the whole crew is. They are scrounging for jobs all the time and they are *forced* to look out for number-one 90% of the time just to survive.

Who is Mal? "He's not an evil man... He hasn't lost his moral compass completely. He has just given up on the idea of the decency of human nature. Or that anything is worth fighting for, except the next meal and the people around him." ~Joss Whedon

Yet in Heart of Gold, Mal and the entire crew of firefly, risk DEATH in a deadly firefight - a western-style shootout because one hooker doesn't want to give up her baby. (cue Madonna song). The core of the conflict is this, and there's no exposition whatsoever to the interesting and real issues surrounding parental rights in a situation like this.

Instead, we get an entire firefly crew who is willing to kill, and be killed, as a favor.

We see the townsman whose barren wife won't give him a kid, which is reasonable motivation to seek a mother via a third party, yet the story is written to portray him with a shallowness that requires laser interferometry to measure. Why? They could have written him as the hardass town boss who has a valid motivation, but who botched negotiations with the whore. Or she could have been a surrogate who breached contract. All potentially interesting stories leading up to the conflict are ignored. There's not a fair protrayal of two legitimate interests in a conflict (something that Firefly does quite well in the alliance vs browncoat conflict).

To top it off, *it is assumed* that a woman has a higher claim to parenthood of an infant than a man. The attitude of this episode, the whole mental frame of reference is drenched in unjustified feminazi self-righteousness.

It's a mindless hackneyed cliche. It's just a dumbed-down good gals versus bad guys western bang-bang shootemup.

In defense of the producers, i see this as a protest against Fox, who had just cancelled the series during ep 12. To me this episode is a frustrated Firefly ranting at the lameness of the TV world "You want dreck? We can give you dreck! Here! See?"

NIKI

Monday, October 31, 2005 1:58 AM

I would say Heart of Gold is the weakest of the episodes. That's not to say that it didn't have its moments, because it did.

The Wash and Kaylee scenes were adorable and made me love their friendship. The Wash/Zoe scene was just sweet. Jayne,with the hooker had some great lines. River during the birth scenes was great. Inara crying over Mal was heartbreaking. And the final Mal/Inara scene was just...well, heartbreaking. They were all great moments.

However, I think Heart of Gold is the weakest episode because of the overall plot. As someone said, it felt like a huge western gun it up cliche of an episode. I watch it from time to time, but I usually skip it or just go to the scenes I like.

_________________________________________________
Bad Guy: And I think maybe you gonna give me a little one-on-one time with the missus.
Jayne: Oh, I think you might want to reconsider that last part. See, I married me a powerful ugly creature.
Mal: How can you say that? How can you shame me in front of new people?
Jayne: If I could make you prettier, I would.
Mal: You are not the man I met a year ago.

SHINYGEEKET

Monday, October 31, 2005 4:09 AM

I'm not exactly sure if I have least favorite. Like everyone else above me as pointed out, each ep has its moments, but if I had to pick, I'd say The Message. That ep bugs me for reasons unknown to myself, but I always watch it for Jayne and his hat, as well as for Wash's reaction when he see's Tracy on the bridge. This episode, in my opinion, is much better with the commentary. Since it was the last ep they filmed, you get to hear about the cast's end of the line antics from Alan and Jewel.

Also kind of hate the beginning of HoG, it's just too cliche.

Love the Train Job, don't care what anyone else thinks. It may be cheesy, but it's my kind of cheese

"We will rule over all this land, and we will call it... 'This Land'."

KAYLEESWEETIE

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 2:32 AM

Minra: I think you are reading far too much into the episode instead of just enjoying the cast and their usual banter.

I try not to dissect a movie/TV program any more than is necessary.

Vic.

DAKCOBB

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 2:53 AM

I say Heart of Gold as well. And for one reason above all... that cheesy POS hovercraft.

SERAFIMO

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 3:12 AM

ACK!

Shindig is my favorite so far! (I haven't finished the DVDs yet)

Romance! Swordfights! Guys slapping each other in the face!

Poofy dresses!

*sniff*

DISKA

Saturday, November 5, 2005 1:30 AM

i actually really like heart of gold but i think thats just because of the stuff between mal and inara is really well done. it took me ages to actually like inaras character and it was when she broke down and cried int hat episode that made me like her- wow im so cold!

train job is my least favourite episode, its such a weak episode in comparison to the pilot serenity.

"Dear diary: Today I was pompous and my sister was crazy. Today we were kidnapped by hill folk, never to be seen again. It was the best day ever."

PHAEDRA

Saturday, November 5, 2005 2:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Arawaen:
As for Mal sleeping with Nandi in HoG, I am sorry just cause you love someone doesn't mean you don't move on with your life. Inara is married to her work, Mal and her will never be together and happy as long as she remains a companion. I think Inara's hypocrisy is telling. If its 'just sex,' she wouldn't have gotten upset.

I don't know if I agree. Sex means different things to different people. For Inara it's an intrical part of her chosen profession. For Mal, it seems to mean something more, at least to the extent that he does seem to display "puritanical leanings." So for Inara sleeping with someone is just business. For Mal, it should be highly personal. Inara's not crying because Mal porked some chick (one of her best friend by the way); but because emotions that should acompany that action for him.

Phaedra (a bad luck name)

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Sunday, November 6, 2005 3:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by minra:

I had to tack this on to this "worst episode" thread as well.

Gold was easily the dumbest espisode of the bunch. It just does not mesh with the character Mal and what the whole crew is. They are scrounging for jobs all the time and they are *forced* to look out for number-one 90% of the time just to survive.

Who is Mal? "He's not an evil man... He hasn't lost his moral compass completely. He has just given up on the idea of the decency of human nature. Or that anything is worth fighting for, except the next meal and the people around him." ~Joss Whedon

Yet in Heart of Gold, Mal and the entire crew of firefly, risk DEATH in a deadly firefight - a western-style shootout because one hooker doesn't want to give up her baby. (cue Madonna song). The core of the conflict is this, and there's no exposition whatsoever to the interesting and real issues surrounding parental rights in a situation like this.

Instead, we get an entire firefly crew who is willing to kill, and be killed, as a favor.

We see the townsman whose barren wife won't give him a kid, which is reasonable motivation to seek a mother via a third party, yet the story is written to portray him with a shallowness that requires laser interferometry to measure. Why? They could have written him as the hardass town boss who has a valid motivation, but who botched negotiations with the whore. Or she could have been a surrogate who breached contract. All potentially interesting stories leading up to the conflict are ignored. There's not a fair protrayal of two legitimate interests in a conflict (something that Firefly does quite well in the alliance vs browncoat conflict).

To top it off, *it is assumed* that a woman has a higher claim to parenthood of an infant than a man. The attitude of this episode, the whole mental frame of reference is drenched in unjustified feminazi self-righteousness.

It's a mindless hackneyed cliche. It's just a dumbed-down good gals versus bad guys western bang-bang shootemup.

In defense of the producers, i see this as a protest against Fox, who had just cancelled the series during ep 12. To me this episode is a frustrated Firefly ranting at the lameness of the TV world "You want dreck? We can give you dreck! Here! See?"

I'd agree with your assessment of the episode, except on one point. They don't go into why Burgess has no right to the infant (didn't he contract one, or is he an idiot?), but I would point out that if they didn't contract one, then sleeping once or twice with a whore is no reason you should get to run off with the baby she carried for nine months. Also, the word "feminazi" is guaranteed to score you points with the ladies. But they frankly did have both the "good guys" and the "bad guys" have no real explanation for the incident. It's like an episode of Xena, complete with the same actors and all...

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

REDREAVER

Saturday, November 12, 2005 1:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Madman007:

I also say "Bushwacked" because it played like a poor man's version of Alien with the sole survivor becomming the alien. The fact that he slaughtered Alliance purple bellies was nice, but it was presented like cheap horror. And now, with what we know now from the movie (Spoiler disclaimer) it is hard to believe anyone can "become" a Reaver since their creation had to do with a failed attempt to control people.

Quote:
No.....this is what going mad feels like.

while i enjoyed Bushwhacked, i must agree about "made" Reavers. of course having seen the movie first, i never really counted him as a Reaver. still, in the thick of it what good does it do you to make distinctions between for-real Reavers and copycats?

the hell was the name of that episode with Saffron? the first one. well, both of them... those would be my least favorite.

now all i need is a big gun and a "very fine hat"...

Reavers ate my homework

20THCENTFOXHATER

Sunday, November 13, 2005 12:12 AM

I definitley don't hate any of the episodes, which is quite uncommon because all T.V. shows have poor outings. But I do have a least favourite, which would have to be Safe. I still like it alright, but there's just something about backwood hicks obsessed with God that I don't like.
I would have to agree with those who said it doesn't matter if a certain plot element has been done before, all what matters is if it's done properly. And Firefly pulls off western cliches very good.
On a whole, my second least favourite episode would be Train Job. I did like the brawl at the beginning, but when they were in Paradiso, the show didn't retain my attention as well as it could have.
Finally, I would have to say Serenity, Ariel, Our Mrs. Reynolds, Shindig, & The Message are my favourites.

"I aim to misbehave."

FOX executives who visited a pre-screening of Serenity met well deserved fates:

FOREVERMYWASH

Sunday, November 13, 2005 1:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Captain:

As for "The Train Job", I also felt it was one of the weaker stories in many ways, but it had a lot of external circumstances: it was written literally over a weekend under pressure and had to satisfy those gorram fools at Fox so that they would at least greenlight the series at all. Despite all that, I felt that Joss and Tim banged out a story that took a lot of western cliches and found ways to turn them on their heads a bit, turn them inside out. Mal being thrown through a holographic window for one, the ending of the episode involving the big ugly henchman for another.

Thanks for saying what I was thinking when reading what everyone was saying about The Train Job.

I would have to say that Heart of Gold is probably my least favorite but there are really good Wash/Zoe and Wash/Kaylee moments that make it much better for me.

SMAUG

Monday, November 14, 2005 8:25 PM

Well.. it's hard to say what my "least" favorite episode is without clarification. As others have said.. even my least favorite episode of FF is probably 10 times better than just about any other show.

With that being said.. I would probably have to say Safe would be the episode I would watch last if I where watching them in order of preference. And I can't quite put my finger on it.. I think I need to watch it again, considering I have only seen it once, and I might have more insight. But I think it's maybe because I feel that episode has the least "story" to it. I think every episode gives us a self-contained story (but that is continous with what has happened previously), character developement/interactions/growth, hints at our character's secrets, and small peeks at the larger story arc Joss is trying to tell. And in each episode.. those elements are played to different levels. The best episodes are the ones where all those elements come together in a wonderful balance while telling a great semi-self-contained story.

But with all of that in just about every episode.. you can't cast off even ones' least favorite episode. Even as I would say Safe is my least favorite.. It is revealied in the episode that Book has a deeper more interesting past than we previously had imagined. We see that Simon is probably always going to stick his foot in his mouth when it comes to Kaylee. WE see that River does really love to dance. We see that River IS pyhsic. We see history repeating itself in the villagers of this boarder world reverting back to a 16th centry witch hunt type of mentality. Which ssems seems to be the bane of humankind in repeating history all over again.. and just seems very real. We see that even though Mal will say to not ever tell him what to do on his boat that he is NOT a dictator.. he does listen and take into account everyone's opinous and thoughts when he takes Inara's recommendation to seek help from the alliance. We see that Simon and River and part of Mal's crew.. but not yet part of the "family".. So we still see all these great character moments..

So we see all this, and this is just what I can remember off the top of my head, so in that.. it's still a great episode. Even if I didn't necissarily love the story of it..

Smaug..

BROWNTROUSERS

Monday, November 14, 2005 8:34 PM

"Heart of Gold". I love every episode, but this, i feel, is the weakest of the bunch. I did'nt like the storyline as much as others, and the cheesy villain with the even cheesier hovercraft was a little annoying. Dont get me wrong, I really love cheesy television (see sig), but i really think that everything else about Firefly is so Un-cheesy, that even a slight bit of cheesiness dont seem right to me. It probably sounds stupid what im trying to say, but... yeah...

Also, the laser gun seemed out of place in this episode too - anybody else agree?

-------Huge Fan of:---------
Firefly\Serenity
Farscape
Andromeda (Early Seasons)

JETFLAIR

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 10:08 AM

For me, it's Bushwhacked. I don't enjoy horror, so the horror overtones of this episode ruin it for me. There is still plenty to love, as with all of Firefly; the interrogation scenes, the crew playing in the cargo bay, Mal saving the day even when unarmed and handcuffed, and so forth.

SHINYTALENT

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:48 AM

Maybe I'm a big softie but I don't have a least favorite ep. I love all of them- they're all so shiny and sugar-coated

The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate vacuuming systems.

HERO

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 1:54 PM

My least favorite is Episode 14. I was mostly disappointed with the complete lack of good writing, directing, and acting.

I expected more, especially after 13 great episodes.

H

HAFTHAND

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 2:39 PM

I have to go with 'Our Mrs. Reynolds' for the single reason that watching Yo-Saf-Brig is so very annoying as the biddable, i am so innocent, please let me be your wife!! I love sooo many things about that episode but unfortunatly if I was forced by gun to skip one it would have to be this because of her annoyingness.

Though watching all their reactions when they find out Mal is married would be hard to give up.

Love, Ally
'Comfort me with apples for I am sick of love' -Solomon

SMAUG

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:11 PM

Now HoG seems to be really taking a bashing. I do agree with a lot of things people have said about this episode from a stand-alone story stand point.

WARNING.. Long Mal and Inara ramblings ahead..

First.. yes.. this episode does look sort of "cheap" compared to many of the others. Like the HoG itself. It looks more like they simply didn't have the money or time to complete it (either contruction wise or design wise).. rather than the weak attempt to pass it off as solar shielding (or whatever it was). And the entire bad guys "army" was a small hovercraft with a mounted gun (which Jayne took care of with one shot), a few guys on horses and a laser gun. Mal, Zoe and Jayne alone have taken on that much just by themselves. But Mal wanted to run from it? It didn't seem enough. I do like the fact that Mal will run/backdown from a fight. As a matter-of-fact.. he does it all the time according to Inara in shindig. lol I understand why they needed Mal to want to run, so that Nandi could give her reason of wanting to stay which would in turn show Mal something in her about how she feels about the HoG that he feels himself about Serenity. They needed that emotional connection, at the very least, or him sleeping with her REALLY would have been out of left field. But there didn't seem to be enough of a threat to make Mal want to run. And there are many other weak points of this particular episode that others have mentioned that I will agree with.

But.. when it comes to character development,interactions, relationship growth, etc. this episode has them just like all of them do.. but mainly there is a very pivotal and powerful moment in the relationship between Mal and Inara that make the entire episode worthwhile.

The Somnambulist said that Inara loving Mal has only been hinted at til HoG. I disagree.. no hinting at all.. I believe it has been shown very clearly from our very first introduction to Inara from the piolet episode. Our first introduction to her shows her with a client.. and she appears rather bored and not into what she is doing.. to the point that she may actually have spead her clock upto cut her client's time short. Why would she do this? I believe it is because of her feelings for Mal. The next time we see her in the piolet, just moments later.. she tells Kaylee that she must be "slipping". Is she? I believe that she is.. because of her feelings for Mal. So her feelings for Mal arn't hinted at, at all. And Mal likewise. As a matter of fact.. I believe everyone knows it, no River like physic ability required. LOL.. It's only Mal and Inara that are blind to each other's feeling and need of the other.

As Arawaen said.. Mal and Inara are not going to be together as long as she is a companion. They are both waiting... Mal is waiting for Inara to give up being a companion.. by her own choice. And Inara is waiting for Mal.. to let down his guard, to let go.. and simply express his burning desire to claim her as his. I think it was in Trash, but a couple episodes prior to HoG.. Inara asks Mal if he is purposefully keeping them out in the middle of no where where she is unable to even remotely find work. Mal of course denies it.. even though I believe it is probably at least partially true. I beleive that he might not be doing it on purpose.. but if keeping them so far out in space means Inara doesn't have any clients, then that is worth as much as the crappy jobs that they get being that far out. And I believe that is what Inara really wanted to hear. I beleive what she truely wanted to hear Mal tell her something like: "Yes.. Inara.. I am.. I (some chinese exlipcitive) AM!! I am glad you can't find any work out here, because I am jealous as #)($#)($* all get out. I'm sorry if you think me a (chinese deragative) for it.. and I don't know how that is going to effect your desire to stay on my boat.. But increasingly I can't stand the thought of you with yet another man. I can't )#(*$#)( stand it!! Not even just the sex.. but even touching... or eve

YORG

Thursday, November 17, 2005 12:19 AM

I don't like:

Heart of Gold - Had some humour (Jayne mostly), but was pretty boring otherwise.

Our Mrs. Reynolds - Pissed me off because the entire episode seemed to lack common sense. They should have turned around, and dropped her back on the planet. And what was up with Inara being pissed off? I wanted to smack her.

The fight in Shindig - I didn't mind the episode, but the duel was pathetic. With all the care Joss takes to make things seem believable in Firefly, he couldn't have hired a fencing trainer to teach the "expert swordsman" how to actually use a sword. But I'm bias because I fence, and hate it when it's done so incredibly poorly.

The Message - Sucked in the same way Our Mrs. Reynolds did. It was too obvious that something was up and the show should have been over long before it started.

SAKROVISHE

Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Smaug:
And Captann I believe you are VERY correct when you said that isn't this (Mal sleeping with another) how Mal feels every time Inara leaves onece again on her shuttle to go be with another client? It is... it cuts him just as deeply. There just hasn't been a clear cut scene that has shown it.. but it does. In order for them to ultimatly become closer, Inara needs to feel and understand this pain... and she does... in one all at one in one crushing moment.

actually there is a huge emotional distinction in the pain Inara feels when Mal makes that choice to sleep with Nandi. Because unlike clients who are Inara's work, Mals decision was personal - not a job or career. And Inara perceived it as exactly that - a personal choice to have shared himself with another woman.
Inara sees clients -but not to seek personal pleasure from this or emotional connections - it is a job. Mal would have cried just as bitterly the day he found Inara in the bed of another man and realized that it was not a 'client' or a job, but a night she had spent with someone else as a personal choice.

They are in love, and in that there is a very fine line between job and personal. Joss establishes from the very beginning that Inara's profession is respectable and acceptable. So we have to see it as that. I don't think Inara would have sobbed quite so hard if Mal was a cosmic stud simply on a job humping space chicks. She might have dissapproved, but it would not have cut as deep.

We don't see such elaborate pain from Mal in the episodes - because he never experienced the extent of such a pain. It would be he who would have to learn what that it feels like.

Purely from a Mal-Inara standpoint HoG was my least fav episode for that unneeded blow to their building relationship.

Bring them closer? I don't think so. Inara did what any other red-blooded woman would do. She left.

REDREAVER

Friday, November 18, 2005 6:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Smaug:

............

The Somnambulist said that Inara loving Mal has only been hinted at til HoG. I disagree.. no hinting at all.. I believe it has been shown very clearly from our very first introduction to Inara from the piolet episode. Our first introduction to her shows her with a client.. and she appears rather bored and not into what she is doing.. to the point that she may actually have spead her clock upto cut her client's time short. Why would she do this?

................

she wouldn't. Inara may be many things, but she is above all professional. i'm quite sure that line was intended as a shot at Inara from an egocentric client too embarassed to admit the only way he could get some was to contract a Companion.

--------------------------------------------

now all i need is a big gun and a "very fine hat"...

Reavers ate my homework

CBY

Sunday, December 4, 2005 1:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hafthand:
I have to go with 'Our Mrs. Reynolds' for the single reason that watching Yo-Saf-Brig is so very annoying as the biddable, i am so innocent, please let me be your wife!! I love sooo many things about that episode but unfortunatly if I was forced by gun to skip one it would have to be this because of her annoyingness.

I second that in its entirety. I like her in "Trash" though.

EMMA

Sunday, December 4, 2005 3:34 PM

Objects in Space just doesn't do it for me. I accept that isn't fair though because it would be a fantastic episoe if the series had continued. AS the last one though it is a bit 'eh?' It is a shame they weren't able to have some kind of conclusion but hey, what the hell

The one I avoid because I am a cowardy custard is War Stoeis. the torture scene is a bit much for me to handle. I am such a woos.

I must admit I can't see why people don't like Shindig. It is my favourite - along with Out of Gas.

Just goes to show FF fans are a topsy-turvy lot!

extremely dimensionally transcendental

CHRISISALL

Sunday, December 4, 2005 3:59 PM

There is no episode that I don't like, however 'Bushwacked' is probably my least viewed, therefore I guess, my least favourite. I ve seen it like 3 or 4 times compared to at least 6 for each of the others (and many more for the pilot, Out Of Gas, Ariel and Objects In Space).

But then, I've only had the series since late Feb.

Chrisisall wacked

RIVERGODDESS

Sunday, December 4, 2005 4:00 PM

Yeah, it does seem that everyone marches to their own drum beat, huh? That's what makes this 'verse so unique. In my opinion, the only episode I have no problem skipping is HoG, but I always love the Kaylee/Wash scene, and the River birthing scene. When she says "Me too". Best line. Anyway, I just didn't like the flow of it. I did watch it yesterday to givie it another chance, and was still like "meh".

As for episodes like Objects in Space (one of my absolute favorites!) I can see why people don't like it, but still...I actually liked the way it ended, sort of open, yet bringing some kind of closure between Kaylee and River and the crew's acceptance of River as an actual person. I'd be frustrated, though, had I been a fan before the movie, and having to wait so long after such an open ending to that eppy.

Safe. Love it. It's one of my top favs, as well. The Simon/River scene always chokes me up. The Message is a good one, not my favorite, but I still rewatch it every once in awhile. There are so many good moments to point out. And someone mentioned skipping Ariel, which I usually fast-forward the blue-hands-killing-spree scene....bleh, I still love Ariel and its moments. And Shindig, can we say hilarious? That's one episode I'll never tire of.

You know, I always liked "Our Mrs. Reynolds", but not as much as the others. When I saw the deleted scene from it, though, I kinda liked it more, for some reason. If they had left that scene in, I think it would have been so much better. Time-wise and plot-wise, I can see why they cut it out, but it's just so cute!

*~*~
Summer's response to Nathan getting his very own action figure:
"I tried to pull his head off."

MALSGIRL

Monday, December 5, 2005 1:09 AM

I have a problem with picking a least favorite, because ever time I go back and watch an episode I thought I didn't like much, I end up liking it. lol

But if I had to pick I would probably say 'Safe' or 'Heart of Gold.' It's not that I have anything against Safe, it just never really clicked with me. I do like the end though, the whole 'yeah but she's our witch.' Still makes me laugh.

Heart of Gold, in general I don't mind it. But I really do have a problem with Mal bedding Nandie. It just seemed so out of character for Mal. I remember the first time I watched the episode, I was sitting on the couch screaming at the TV/Mal not to do it. Yes, I know it won't change a thing, but I just couldn't help it.

CBY

Monday, December 5, 2005 12:43 PM

Quote:
Heart of Gold, in general I don't mind it. But I really do have a problem with Mal bedding Nandie. It just seemed so out of character for Mal.

You are absolutely right. I think Joss used this merely as a trigger for the famous "Inara-cries-the-shit-out-of-her" scene.

ZIGGY

Monday, December 5, 2005 1:57 PM

I loved what smaug wrote about HoG. This is my favourite episode largely because of Mal/Inara. When the show was axed and the situation never resolved it was one of the things that bothered me the most. I can't remember who it was that said it would have been good if the series finished with an episode which tied up the loose ends, but I agree with this sentiment to a degree. Even if the film had done this and brought the whole story to a conclusion it would be less frustrating, but there is clearly still so much to be told.
Incidently, and completely irrelevantly, I saw Mal's brown coat for sale in ebay along with the gold dress Inara wears in Shindig, and a lot of other Firefly clothes. I wondered if this spelled the end!
Anyway back to the topic! My least favourite episode was Warstories primarily because of the torture scenes. Personally I didn't like the way they were done. imho there was too much attempt at humour in a situation where I thought there should have been none. Don't get me wrong; I do understand that probably the powers that be wanted it toned down for daytime television it just didn't work for me. I remember watching the film The Three Kings (not one of my favourites) and the torture scene there was utterly horrifying, as torture scenes should be.
There are a lot of things I really liked about this episode though. Wash's jealousy of Mal and Zoe's relationship, and the fact that Mal wouldn't break and kept Wash from breaking too. Most of all I liked the scene just after Wash is rescued and Zoe is holding him and he tells her that Mal is crazy. I thought these were all very plausible.

MALSGIRL

Monday, December 5, 2005 10:27 PM

I used to have the same problem with War Stories, I just flat out didn't like the torture scenes and therefore didn't care for the episode much. But recently I went back and watched it over (and over) again. And realized how good the episode was. And the humor, well that's Mals way of staying sane and his way to make sure Wash doesn't lose it either. After re-watching the torture scences I realized how heroic Mal was in them and ended up liking them (as much as one can). And the torture scences were my only problem with the episode in general so I ended up liking it.

_____________________________

"You will keep a civil tongue in that mouth
or I will sew it shut."
~Mal
'Serenity Part I'

GRAYFURY

Tuesday, December 6, 2005 3:03 PM

Bushwhacked. Didnt have the same flow... Some great lines.... but then again thats every episode

"Dear God In Heaven!" - Plastic Dinosaur

KYLENBLADE

Thursday, December 8, 2005 11:40 PM

I honestly cant say I have a least fovorite episode. I've loved every single one of em

Hey! You're back! And there's your front too!

SAMEERTIA

Friday, December 9, 2005 12:15 AM

Least favorite: Shindig.
It's just too painful watching Mal & Kaylee in a social disaster, and then Mal failing at the swordfight and falling for Atherton's "Come on and attack me" bit?
What was up with that?
Although, River's "distraction" with Badger that the crew is too stunned to take advantage of is absolutely priceless!

Second least favorite: Bushwacked. Someone above mentioned the confusion over the whole Reaver issue. And too much of it played like a horror film.
I like to skip to the interrogations, where the crew is just completely walking the poor commander. Poor commander. I actually felt sorry for him, especially when Wash was telling him to write down what attracted him to Zoe!

There seems to be alot of bashing of Heart of Gold, but it's one my favorites. I don't hold Mal to the same standards as some of the rest of you do and I think there is NO REASON whatsoever that he and Nandi couldn't have had a nice comforting night of passion. *shrug*

Plus there is that great scene between Wash & Zoe.

JUSTSHINY

Friday, December 9, 2005 12:34 AM

I choose Safe.

I like how it has more of River and Simon, but to me it has that whole "The Crucible" aire. Don't get me wrong, "The Crucible" is a good play, but it's the people who get me. Not everything is the devil. I get that some people are really religious and stuff, but I only watch "The Crucible" to see all the crazy girls yell and scream about things that aren't there...very entertaining in that cheezy way. You'd think a poor farm town could make use of a psychic, telling when to plant stuff and what not.

Anyways, that is my least favorite episode because it is kinda cheesy to me. But I do love several of the lines in it.

I actually really liked The Message. I liked the whole carrying a bullet around for a while thing that came full circle. And I love the different fighting styles of Zoe and Mal in the war. Great stuff.

Drunks are so cute.

RIVERGIRL

Friday, December 9, 2005 1:01 AM

not too fond of Our Mrs Reynolds or Bushwached

Also, I can kill you with my brain.

AXJ

Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:41 PM

"Safe" seemed to get lost, to me... was, all in all, a very unfocused episode that just sort of meandered off into sort of a diatribe against religious fanatics. Personally, I hate religious fanatics, but here it just seemed to be sloppily executed.

"The Message" had great structure, but seemed to be lacking a lot of the attitude and fun of the series. The motivations behind character actions seemed to not make much sense, either. Why didn't anyone bother to tell the kid they were going to try a clever move with the Fed? Why didn't someone shoot this kid in the head as soon as he started threatening crew members- especially Kaylee, given Mal's soft spot for her? After they did shoot him, why didn't anyone bother rendering medical attention, when they seem to be willing to do so to just about any other wounded human out there? Instead they all just gathered around him and spoke tenderly to him for a few moments. Just doesn't make any sense.

And while I see your points re HOG, I thought it was chock so full of fantastically unflinching character development, I couldn't help but love it. But hey, YMMV.

J6NGO1977

Friday, December 16, 2005 10:08 PM

If I have to pick one I'd say 'Objects in Space'. The fact it's the last episode kind of brings things down but I didn't really take to the whole bounty hunter thing. I don't think the actor was a credible bounty hunter. He didn't really send a shiver down my spine enough.

I also read something about this episode having underlieing racism. The evil black man threatening to rape the white women etc. To be honest I cannot see it myself. I don't care what colour the actor is and I know Joss Whedon would not care either. If the bounty hunter was a white guy comments like this would not have been made. If there is any underlieing racism there it is in the head of the person who perceives it that way.

To be honest I think Joss should have covered the bounty hunters face with a helmet the whole episode. That would have give him a more sinister quality.

PATCH01

Thursday, December 22, 2005 2:22 AM

It's a hard choice to make as I enjoy each episode, but I'd be inclined to place Shindig & Jaynestown as the weakest of all the 1st series.

Shindig had some real potential but the duel sequence really killed it for me, (Mal was a soldier and should've been able to handle an edged weapon more convincingly).

Jaynestown, not sure why I don't like it as much as others, there's some damn funny bits in it, but it just doesn't grab me...........

Mais perto do céu

SHUTTLE2

Friday, December 23, 2005 7:31 AM

Probably Safe, because it's the least interesting in my opinion. However I don't like wathing Our Mrs Reynolds much becuase "saffron" really pisses me off.

FLIPDOG

Friday, December 23, 2005 8:16 AM

I really don't like "The Message." Yeah, it gave some character to Mal and Zoe...but it just wasn't my cup of tea.

But can I say how proud I am that everyone recognizes HoG as a 'Seven Samurai' parallel. Though I liked certain parts of it. It added a lot of tension between Mal and Inara.

TERRYO

Friday, December 23, 2005 5:01 PM

Interesting mix of replies...

Mine is Objects in Space, despite the presence of Richard Brooks - one of my favorite actors from Law and Order who really should be getting more work.

Strangely, I had never listened to the commentary on that one - probably because it wasn't one of my favorite episodes to start with. (The whole air of voyeurism creeped me out.) So, in preparation for the movie and because Joss said in interviews that OiS was partly the inspiration for the movie, I listened to it and was totally dismayed. I had already bought the Visual Companion and read spoilers for the BDM so I could see the links from the series to the movie and how the movie became all about River.

It was painful listening to Joss babble on about existentionalism and Summer's feet because it confirmed the suspicion that he had pretty much lost interest in Mal and Zoe's characters.
For me, Mal is the central figure in the Firefly 'verse. That's the show I fell in love with - I could have bought the dvds of Buffy if I had wanted a show about a little girl continually kicking the daylights out of men twice her size. But that's Joss's obsession, not mine - although to give him credit, it's one lots of others seem to share.

It leads me to wonder how much of what I loved about Buffy, Angel and Firefly was due to others, not Joss. Is Tim Minear as necessary to Joss as Paul McCartney was to John Lennon? Not that I'm implying that Tim is as fluffy as McCartney but is there that weird synergy going on that becomes totally evident when the artists do solo work? (Totally OT - I still miss John Lennon after 25 years and FTR, I did love most of his solo work. Still, it didn't get much better than Lennon/McCartney at their peak.)

Terry

USAGIVINDALOO

Friday, April 14, 2006 2:39 AM

Forgive the newb digging up this topic from the depths of the archives.

My least favourite episode? EASILY The Message, I think. Yes, it has its brilliant bits (Jayne's hat, Wash's greeting of the cow fetus), but frankly I would be content not to watch it again (I've watched it once, and then checked the commentary a second time). I had two major problems with it.

1) The entire premise is based on everyone being really STUPID. And not just Tracey; in fact, barring the idiocy of the whole organ smuggling thing in the first place, his behaviour was actually somewhat understandable. But no, everyone else was being morons, and I have reached that conclusion after Jewel and Alan pointed out stuff on the commentary track. So Book has a plan... why communicate it through eye contact rather than just say, "Hey, these people are obviously out of their jurisdiction, we just need to threaten them a bit?" There is absolutely NO reason for him not to say what his plan is; he doesn't know Tracey's standing there, and even if he DID, all the more reason to be clear about what's going to happen (otherwise look what happens!) And what about Mal? A few people have commented that, as captain, he shouldn't have to explain his actions, but jeez, would it kill him to say, "Don't worry, we have a plan, trust me?" He hasn't seen Tracey for ages, he shouldn't demand the same trust of him as for his crew. At least in Bushwacked, Simon knew and trusted Book's advice, plus there was almost certainly an explanation off camera. Really, Mal dropped the ball totally on this one. And as a result, I feel somewhat nauseous when he says, "You murdered yourself. I just carried the bullet for a little while." It's cold, cruel, and totally absolves Mal of any blame... blame which he SHOULD be willing to take for his mishandling of the situation.

And as for other idiots, what about the feds themselves? As Jewel notes in the commentary, they come on board with dinky little pistols up against about, what, four people with weapons? Laaaaaame.

2) Look, I know that Simon is awkward and inept at talking to women, but jeez, Kaylee was a real bitch to him in this episode. I'm a woman, and if a guy had said the whole "only woman in the world" comment to me, I would not have been offended at all. I would have either taken it as a joke (which is what Simon POINTS OUT it was, but Kaylee refuses to believe him) or as a sweetly awkward compliment that just happened to blow up in his face. It is obvious that Simon is a sweetie, and that his "bad" lines are actually meant to be kind and respectful. WHY OH WHY does Kaylee get her panties in a twist over it? Why is she so sensitive, and why doesn't she see how CUTE it is? But no, she treats him horribly for the rest of the episode until the very end. Which would be OK if the episode at least indicated that Kaylee is WRONG for behaving this way, that the mature response would be to giggle at Simon's awkwardness and let it pass! This complaint is also relevant in Safe (another of my least favourite episodes) and Jaynestown (though there it is redeemed by the scene in his room where he explains his politeness is his way of showing respect to her... did she just forget that?) It really turned me off the episode to have Kaylee behave that way and yet SIMON was supposed to be the "stupid" one.

I also wasn't fond of Shindig or Safe (I've only watched them once and don't really have the urge to see them again). I'm not fond of public humiliation like Shindig has, and Safe... the scene where they leave Simon and River is painful, plus it suffers from the second problem of The Message. I also didn't INITIALLY like Our Mrs. Reynolds and Jaynestown, but a second viewing of both has brought me around.

Every other episode is pure brilliance. And I do echo the sentiment that the worst of Firefly is better than the best of some shows.

"This must be what going mad feels like."

SHINEYSHINDIG

Friday, April 14, 2006 3:40 AM

Seeing that there were so few episodes... it's really hard for me to nit pick.. say there were 50 or at least 150 to choose from, I'd find more comfort in picking apart a weak story. With that said, I'd have to say "bushwacked" and only because to me it didn't move along strongly. Although, it did have some very poignant and remembered quotes.. hmm, guess all of them kinda did that..
For the 'verse, it did bring question about the reavers, and when compared to the BDM in learning about the reaver's beginning, this episode kind of steps around things...

"...use of a swhat??"

TEALCANDTRIP

Friday, April 14, 2006 6:56 AM

Gees... I seem to the opposite of a lot of people.

Least favorite: bushwhacked (cause the best part of that episode was cut and is in the extended gag reel: wash's interregation)

Close 2nd least favorite: Objects in Space and HoG. They had their moments, but both kind of bored me. Also never really liked Jaynestown.

My favorites gotta be: Shindig, Out of Gas, War Stories, and the Message. I seem to be the only person who doesn't resent the Message. Can't think why. It's iconic (jayne's hat and the funeral), great dialog (my food is problematic and what'd you order a dead guy for), historic, and action oriented. I love it!

"I also hear that there's something called Firefly, which is either a canceled science-fiction television show or a new religion, I'm not clear on that. Either way, prayers for the resurrection are involved." – Lore Sjoberg

SEBA

Friday, April 14, 2006 7:09 AM

Least favorite: bushwhacked, completely unmemorable.

Favorite: Serenity (Pilot): This one had everything -- I could watch it a hundred times in a row. Everything that was great about the series distilled into 2 hours.

SAB39

Friday, April 14, 2006 2:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jetflair:
For me, it's Bushwhacked. I don't enjoy horror, so the horror overtones of this episode ruin it for me. There is still plenty to love, as with all of Firefly; the interrogation scenes, the crew playing in the cargo bay, Mal saving the day even when unarmed and handcuffed, and so forth.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel too.

As far as the other episodes people have mentioned - I guess I don't feel the weak points of them as much as others do, but also every single one of them has something that to me is quintessentially Firefly - the embodiment of something I love about the show.

Train Job: My favorite Jayne moment of the entire series - "The lights. From the console. Keep you. Lift you up. They shine like little angels!" And the two decisions Mal makes at the end that are so quintessentially Mal: About giving the stuff back, you don't have a choice. About kicking a guy through your engine, not so much.

Shindig: Ok, I'm just a sucker for Kaylee in this episode. "It's the buffet table." "But how can we be sure... unless we question it?". The way she ends up surrounded by guys laughing at stories about engines. And her sheer contentment at the end with the dress on her wall. Plus: River and Badger, which was the moment I knew I was in love with the show in the first place. "Guess I'm just a good man. Well, I'm okay". And the reveal of the cows at the end.

Safe: Simon and River. The scenes between them are so utterly beautiful and heartbreaking throughout the whole series, and never more so than this ep.

Our Mrs Reynolds: This is one of my favorites of the "funny" eps. So many great comedic moments. Especially the whole scene leading up to "my days of taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."

War Stories: War Stories? Seriously? This is my absolute favorite! Most of the episodes are either mostly funny or mostly serious drama, and I love both kinds, but this one works fantastically well on both levels which makes it the embodiment of everything I love about the show. I can't pick one scene - the whole damn thing is perfect. I can't believe anyone would pick this as a least fave.

The Message: Plot holes, schmot holes. Jayne's hat! The Simon/Kaylee/Tracey mini-triangle. And - especially noticeable once you've heard the commentary and know what was on the composer's mind - the music to the last scene in the snow...

Heart of Gold: Inara bawling her eyes out. But most of all... When I watched this one for the first time I remember sitting literally inches away from the screen at the end with my mouth wide open waiting for Inara to finally fess up to her feelings for Mal. After "I'm leaving" I think it was about a minute before I could actually move a muscle...

Objects in Space: Well, it's the end, so I get that it's heartbreaking. And I didn't find Early a terribly believable character. But I think in this ep more than any other you get a sense of the crew as a family - and what more fitting way to end the series than that?

[edited to add a couple more eps people mentioned that I missed before]

DEEPGIRL187

Friday, April 14, 2006 3:38 PM

There's a such a thing as "least-favorite"?

If I'm actually being forced to admit such things, I'd have to say "Bushwhacked". And truth be told, it's only certain scenes. I don't think there's one episode that is worth complete dislike.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

ALISS

Friday, April 14, 2006 4:45 PM

The first time I saw anything Firefly was the sword scene in Shindig. I didn't stick around to watch the rest. It's still my least favorite, mainly because of the "ugh, Mal, stop running into swords" feeling. A close second is Trash, only because I can't really stand Saffron. Bushwacked I like but don't watch too often because it creeps me out.

Oh, and Teacandtrip said: "Least favorite: bushwhacked (cause the best part of that episode was cut and is in the extended gag reel: wash's interregation)", to which I say, "What friggin' extended gag reel?!?" My itty bitty DVD set only has the one. (The mid-season party gag-reel.)

AZHEA

Friday, April 14, 2006 5:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl:
You know, I'd have to go with Shindig. I just didn't really buy the art direction in that episode, the dancing and costumes all seemed really phony, as compared to other episodes where I feel like they really achieve an authentic, lived in aesthetic feel.

To my mind, that very phoniness worked for me. The 'elite' puttin' on airs if you will.

That said, Shindig ranks on my least favorite list along with Safe and Heart of Gold and Bushwaked.

But, even the worst episode of Firefly is better'an the best episode of most everythin' else. So, we've got that goin' for us!!!

*************************************************
I look out for me and mine... that don't include you 'less I conjure it does.

GIDEONSTARGRAVE

Friday, April 14, 2006 6:27 PM

The Message annoys me slightly (my criticisms are the same as above, don't like the general aura of stupidity that seems to go around)

HoG also annoys me, again largely for the Mal/Inara stuff already discussed.

EPEYON

Friday, April 14, 2006 9:40 PM

Out of Gas for me, it was nice to learn some back story, but it just felt to slow. It just feels different.

THEJEAN

Saturday, April 15, 2006 6:52 PM

My absolute least favorites are Trash and Our Mrs. Reynolds. I can tolerate "Mrs. Reynolds" first because there are some mild comedic moments, but I just can't stand Saffron! She's so annoying in her 'I'm so innocent' way. It just makes me even more irritated when she reemerges in "Trash" and is even more manipulative. Those are the two epidodes that I skip 90% of the time.

BANZAIBILL

Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:02 PM

I'd guess my least favorite is "The Message", followed by "Bushwhacked". There are plenty of parts of "Bushwhacked" that I did like, including a lot that people have already mentioned, but I also love Jayne messing with Simon. The whole claustrophobic Simon in the spacesuit thing is Hi-larious. I just didn't enjoy the whole take on the Reavers in that. I thought the BDM's take on them was better.

"The Message" annoys me the most, I think. There are holes aplenty, stupidity abounds, and the characters just seem a little off to me. I mean, I love the music at the funeral, and I love the Han Solo in carbonite in Kaylee's room as she listens to the message again, and I love Jayne in the episode. I just get annoyed at the rest of the supposedly smart folks not being smart. YMMV, as everyone has said.

Even with all of that, I'd still take a Firefly episode that combined all of the worst of both over just about anything else on TV. Except maybe "Arrested Development" (which FOX also cancelled) or "Scrubs".

*** Think of it as evolution in action ***

BUK

Monday, April 17, 2006 8:08 PM

Train Job instantly. I liked the bar scene except not for a begining.

HURRICANEEZ1

Sunday, May 7, 2006 6:49 PM

Like many other people in this thread I have to go with "Heart of Gold". The relationship stuff between Mal/Inara was very well done but other than that...ehh.

KEYOKE

Monday, May 8, 2006 8:13 PM

I must be strange... I find The Message, Ariel and Heart of Gold to have the most moving endings, and therefore would never put them among the worst episodes.

----------------
"We feel the pain of a lifetime lost in a thousand days,
Through the fire and the flames we carry on"

VOLK564

Tuesday, May 9, 2006 6:41 AM

I'm gonna have to say Bushwacked, with the sole exception of the scene where the Alliance officer is interviewing all of them. The "We're private people," cut to "Her legs! Definintly her legs!" line is great, but other than that, the episode is just 45 mins of saying "Reavers are bad, and Mal knows best." In defense of Heart of Gold, I get that the first, let's say 40 mins of a 45 min episode are cliche, but the last 5 minutes with the whole Inara leaving scene is done exquisitley (spelling?).

TEALCANDTRIP

Tuesday, May 9, 2006 7:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Aliss:
Oh, and Teacandtrip said: "Least favorite: bushwhacked (cause the best part of that episode was cut and is in the extended gag reel: wash's interregation)", to which I say, "What friggin' extended gag reel?!?" My itty bitty DVD set only has the one. (The mid-season party gag-reel.)

To make sure you don't miss anything, I suggest the following thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

Someone spelled out everything Firefly related, in order.

You'll want to watch the extended gag reel. You can put that into google and find loads of sites that host it. Or follow her suggestion:

4) Get Extended Gag reel from Firefly on a site that downloads video... I like Limewire. Or go here...

"I also hear that there's something called Firefly, which is either a canceled science-fiction television show or a new religion, I'm not clear on that. Either way, prayers for the resurrection are involved." – Lore Sjoberg

TWODIFSOKS

Tuesday, May 9, 2006 8:02 PM

Lease fav is Bushwacked.

I feel so sorry and embarrased for Simon for putting the suit on backwards.

And as I write this the picture tile in the left corner shows that episode where they blow up the abandoned ship.

Karma's coming to get me, I can feel it.

RIVER6213

Thursday, May 11, 2006 8:47 PM

I've been rewatching all of the Firefly episodes recently, and originally "Heart of Gold" was right up there as one of the worst FF episodes, so I thought, but now that I've seen it again 4 times, I decided it's one of my favorites because of a certain theme that seems to follow Mal around throughout most of the Firefly episodes.

Heart of Gold had elements of the 7 samurai in it as one person in this thread suggested, but on the whole, heart of Gold was that battle of Serenity Valley. Sure Mal did it because of his unspoken love for Inara, but he also did it because the whole situation was Serenity Valley, or reminded him of it.

The bad guy who had all the money in town who kept everyone poor so that he was the only big guy on the block with all the toys. He basically "Owned" everyone and everything on that moon. He represents the Alliance in Mal's mind. The so-called "whores" who were unlicensed represented the "Independents" in Mal's head, therefore Mal was going to fight for them; fight for their independence.

I see this theme throughout all of the Firefly episodes where some situation, event, or some person reminds Mal of Serenity Valley.... its like its a trigger for him.

Anyway, my other favorites are:

1. Out of Gas – The ending never fails to bring forth a tear from me.
2. Serenity- The Pilot episode
3. Ariel – We get to see just how smart Simon really is, and what a backstabber Jayne can be, and how Mal seriously feels about his crew: You mess with his crew and you might as well have messed with him.

4. Safe - We get to see just how much River and Simon love each other to the point where Simon is willing to die with her. And we really get a sense of family from the crew in this episode.

5. JaynesTown - We get to see another side to Jayne.
6. Objects in Space – Pure Art

River

RIVER6213

Thursday, May 11, 2006 8:57 PM

crap! double post
Sorry

YARMUTH925

Thursday, May 11, 2006 10:57 PM

You know I didn't really care for the last one with the guy from Law and Order. I felt like that was weakest episode by far.

ALISS

Friday, May 12, 2006 5:14 PM

:) Thanks, tealcandtrip! Managed to download and had a giggle-fit. I was wondering why the commentary on The Message mentioned an outake that was no where to be found...

SIMONB

Sunday, May 14, 2006 11:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by KayleeSweetie:
That said, I don't think there are any bad episodes.

Right there with you. IMHO Firefly didn't put a foot wrong, and I loved every second of my time in the 'verse.

So which were the worst/weakest episodes (just IMHO of course) well, to quote Faith from Buffy:

No such animal.

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die

TAYEATRA

Monday, May 15, 2006 12:27 AM

Wow... It's always great when these kind of threads come up because everyone reacts so differently. All the comments are an interesting read and you all managed to point out things i'd forgotten and made me really rethink my response.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to defend Heart of Gold for two reasons...
1.)Mal and Jayne with the, "I'm not feeling particularly girlish" scene.
2.)And Inara crying, because frankly, Morena broke my heart into over a million tiny pieces in that one little scene.

I'm could never strike out an entire episode as below par, but generally 'The Message' is just not my kind of thing. It's the whole no communication thing towards the end. Although the gag reel for this has me in histerics everytime.

When I first started watching I wasn't keen on Bushwacked and skipped it on one viewing, but I got to the end of the series and thought..."Wait, where's that interrogation scene? It's freakin' hilarious". So I've never skipped it since.

My initial dissatisfaction with Objects in Space is, I think, my own inner regret that it was the last episode. I kept expecting like a huge two parter end of story arc thing and it just never happened. I know it's Fox's fault but I'm a little bitter.

Huh... that was a longer response than I expected to post but I just want to reiterate.

All Firefly is infinitely better than anything else on TV.

*****
Taya
*****
Dark Angel, Firefly, Buffy, Angel, Enterprise, Farscape... anything else you'd like to cancel?

HURRICANEEZ1

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 3:07 AM

I gotta say...I'm shocked at how many people mentioned "Our Mrs. Reynolds" in this thread.

It is truly my favorite. Not only was it hilarious but I think it was the first episode that confirmed that Inara loved Mal just as much as he loved her. To me that was a huge revelation.

DALLASFIREFLY

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 3:46 AM

War Stories, not much fun seeing Mal and Wash tortured.

I wanna be Mr. Baccarin!

MAGNUM

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 6:51 AM

The only episodes, in my opinion, that sucked were the whorehouse one (way cliche and way cheap on the sets) and I love Melinda in everything she does; and the ballroom one, dueling one with the fake fog. Sorry I don't remember the name of specific episodes at this point.
The best eisode was the first one I saw - Out of Gas - Amazing, it got me hooked on the show.

Oh, quick queestion: why does Serenity have 40+ thousand votes at higher than '8' and not make the top 250 on IMDB?)

LADYSERENITY

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 7:51 PM

I love any moment I get to spend on Serenity and with our BDH! But if I were to mention my least favorite I would say The Train Job because I am always finding I want to skip it. I guess the whole Niska thing, waiting in th Paradiso jail house and all that, I don't know not a very solid story I guess. THough it does have some funny lines and we get to see that Mal has that sense of nobility and honor even though he's on the drift on the edges of the verse. I also love the line of Zoe's "There is a problem with your brain being missing" I love that line. My other least favorite is parts of Heart of Gold It breaks my heart to see Mal with anyone other than Inara and when she breaks down and cries I want to cry with her. There are some parts I like for instance Wash and Kaylee's exchange "Wash, tell me I'm pretty>" "were I unwed I would take you in a manly fashion." "Cuz i'm pretty?" "Cause your pretty" I love Wash.

I never dislike all of an episode becasue I think its impossible. My favorites are Out of Gas, Shindig, Objects in Space and Our Mrs. Reynolds. These are the ones I watch the most.

Shiny

Lady Serenity

BROVIS

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Volk564:
I'm gonna have to say Bushwacked, with the sole exception of the scene where the Alliance officer is interviewing all of them. The "We're private people," cut to "Her legs! Definintly her legs!" line is great, but other than that, the episode is just 45 mins of saying "Reavers are bad, and Mal knows best." In defense of Heart of Gold, I get that the first, let's say 40 mins of a 45 min episode are cliche, but the last 5 minutes with the whole Inara leaving scene is done exquisitley (spelling?).

My thoughts exactly. Bushwacked is my least favorite. It just seems that Mal knows too much about the psychology of reaver-dom. Not my sorta thing is all.

THESOMNAMBULIST

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:21 PM

Hearts of Gold... It's just too A-Team

It's not nearly as bad as A-Team but it's just heading that way...

However that said as was pointed out earlier it has a brilliant piece of acting by Morena when she breaks down and cries.

Just breaks your heart!

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

THUNDER

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:43 PM

Safe, it let you in on a little stuff But was not much help with the story line in my oppinion.On a related note about the series, I'm talking to a friend about Firefly, I lent him the series, & he really likes it & wants to see the movie. So I have another convert. That makes 5 for me.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:47 PM

BLASPHEME! As a follower of Joss the Master, I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of an episode that was below par.

CHOO1701

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:01 PM

Gotta be "Heart of Gold"...

come on....Someone would at least have locked the ship properly (how did Kaylee and Wash get out of that situation anyway?)

I liked Bushwacked really showed how much of an a$$hole the Universe was (and its intriging to know how Mal knows somuch about Reavers..if only..)

Also "The Message" as well...the bad guys wern't really bad guys...the only good/sad thing about it is the last scence )

MERC2K

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:23 PM

I think my least favourite would be "Heart of Gold".

RUGBUG

Thursday, May 18, 2006 7:19 PM

My least favorite has got to be Safe. There are some good scenes (River dancing...she's just so joyous and the whole BDH scene at the end) but most of it was...cold and stiff. I suppose like Simon appears to the crew and the audience.

NVGHOSTRIDER

Thursday, May 18, 2006 8:07 PM

Message was my most/least favorite. Screw all the cerebral reasons why. I believe that when folks are faced with the whole walking/crawling/being carried thing it dredges up who people really are.Having been on both sides of that problem really caused an emotional surge for me . That episode completely hooked me on a doomed show that is followed by the knarliest bunch of degenerates I have ever known. Browncoats forever!

SAPHIRO

Sunday, May 21, 2006 1:55 AM

My least favorite episode would have to be "Safe", just because i was never really that fond of River or Simon, until the BDM, of course, but still, "Shindig" was one of my favorites, how can u say its bad when you have "captain tightpants" saying, "a s-what?" in the same episode!? lol

"You cant stop the signal, Mal.Everything goes somewhere, and I go everywhere"

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