Joss Made My 11-yr-old Daughter Cry

POSTED BY: ItWasAllADream
UPDATED: Friday, December 2, 2005 23:41
VIEWED: 25168
PAGE 1 of 1

ITWASALLADREAM

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:56 PM

I agree that Serenity sucked, just because of the "surprise" twist, the one that ruined my whole family's night, the one that made my 11-year old daughter ball her eyes out.

I loved the effects, the adventure and especially the shinning the light of truth on current events with modern drugging of our own society.

But, IF this wasn't just a dream sequence and things aren't returned to normal, I don't think I'll be a fan anymore.

My family and I really loved the show, not because there were life threatning adventures, but mostly because of the comedy and great characters.

ENGINEANGEL

Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:26 AM

i'd recommend that you see the movie again. I know it's hard, but i was disappointed, shocked, mad, and sad when i first saw the movie. I went again, and i loved it!!! The end of the movie was better and, even though i'm still broken up about Wash, I wasn't disappointed that time.

keep flyin'
EngineAngel

Wash, you were the best gorram pilot in the verse. Rest In Peace (and then come back again!!!)

OBIWAN

Thursday, October 20, 2005 1:00 AM

Please feel free to take this the wrong way.

If you can't accomodate your daughter's grief over a fictional character, what hope do you have to help her through a true tragedy?

Seems like a perfect opportunity to have some good parent-daughter talkin'.

SIMONWHO

Thursday, October 20, 2005 1:24 AM

I advise you to sue. Sue Joss, sue Universal. Your daughter has obviously suffered psychological damage and you need to be compensated.

Alternatively you could tell her that both Serenity and Firefly are fictional and that Wash didn't die because he never even existed in the first place. He could turn up in the next film or be reincarnated as the Easter Bunny because he is a fictional creation and as such not bound by the laws of reality that the rest of us are.

Take my advice, keep her away from the news channels.

BARCLAY

Thursday, October 20, 2005 1:43 AM

"PG 13 Parents Strongly Cautioned. Some Material May Be Inappropriate For Children Under 13. Sequences of intense violence and action, and some sexual references."

The MPAA loves you.

"You are on the Global Frequency."
http://www.frequencysite.com
http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com

SAFEAT2ND

Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:03 AM

Simonwho & Obiwan .

Itwasalladream wasn't trying to be confrontational, but you two saw fit to knock 'em down and drag 'em through the mud. Good going...

Itwasalladream, stay true to Firefly if nothing else. That still counts.

Oh and Simonwho & Obiwan, let me guess, neither one of you saw Old Yeller at age eleven...ease up.

Safeat2nd, Chief Handyman of Destiny

EMBERS

Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:11 AM

Safeat2nd:
I think that the phrase 'Serenity sucked' IS confrontational
and that the remarks of Simonwho & others were appropriate and called for....

there is a division in this fandom right now,
and people who stand up with controversial opinions should expect others to disagree with them.

I'm sorry the 11 year old was upset, and I think maybe her parents shouldn't so much blame Joss as themselves for not finding out more about a PG-13 film before taking her.

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse!

SIMONWHO

Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:15 AM

Excuse me, can you think of a more confrontational thread title than "Joss Made My 11-yr-old Daughter Cry"? Well, all right "Joss Whedon is a complete bastard and emotional stunted my daughter" would be worse but still, it was a personalised attack and more than that, it was just another negative thread started purely for the reason of knocking the movie again.

This site is supposedly devoted to Firefly and Serenity fandom. We do not need fifteen new threads a day about how disappointed someone was in the movie. Or would you prefer it if everyone just poured out their bile on a daily basis?

UNSARDONIC

Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:15 AM

Yup...

when I was 11, I was a cryin' fool... wept like a baby at the original "Mighty Joe Young" which, now, I would watch as history or for its camp value.

You said a shiny thing which I agree with - about the original poster's motives and validity, I mean. I agree with the second poster, "itwasalladream" should go back & see it again - probably on her own - to get a feeling of her OWN emotions on the matter.

I've seen it 5 times & it's Just Not Enough: I need more of the (Firefly) 'Verse.

HOHOHO

PSYCHICRIVER

Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:42 AM

Im sorry to hear that...but hey, I think Joss kinda intended for people to cry. I think its a compliment to a writer/director is something that was supposed to be sad really saddens people.

Are you a fan of Joss' other works? Buffy? Angel? Cos...its a Joss Whedon movie...there was no way they were making it out alive.

And like others have said...it is a PG13 movie.

Kids are crying at this movie. Theres a lot of adults crying at this movie, too.

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."
"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."

STEVE580

Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ItWasAllADream:

But, IF this wasn't just a dream sequence and things aren't returned to normal, I don't think I'll be a fan anymore.

Okay, see, here's where I think a lot of people are having problems with the movie.

Firefly was in limbo for two and a half years. During that looong stretch of time, the 'Verse was static. So, when it did get rollin' again, and things did begin to change, people were...well, they couldn't handle it. If it had stayed a TV show, these things would have happened. Trust me. I watched Buffy and Angel (after Firefly turned me on to Whedon's work), and damn, things on those shows were hardly constant. People died, randomly, pointlessly. Circumstances were altered drastically; I mean hell, on Angel at the start of season 5 (well, technically the end of 4), he and his gang were

Select to view spoiler:

given control of the evil corporation they had spent the last four years fighting against!

Anyways, eh, that's my theorum as to why some fans disliked the flick.
-Steve

DREAMTROVE

Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:57 AM

Joss has said it a few times, he's not trying to shelter children from reality. If actions don't have consequences, I will be very disappointed.

ITWASALLADREAM

Thursday, October 20, 2005 3:08 AM

Yes, my title was to elicit a response. Yes, I think we can all be confrontational on this board. I don't mind.

My daughter is quite a strong individual and can deal with the harsh realities of life. She isn't a sheltered kid and has two older brothers to boot, so I'm not affraid for her psyche.

Hell, she probably took it better than me. (I forgot to mention that I was bawling too! [not on the outside though])

My main point is that I really hated to see Wash go. That totally freaking sucked!!!!

Did Josh make a great movie that took one on an emotional ride? Yes.

If this isn't all a dream or the future of firefly episodes isn't all pre-movie time, where I can enjoy Wash on the show, then, like I said, I don't think I'll be a fan. Don't think and absolutely won't be, are two different things, btw.

No, I didn't really watch Buffy or Angel, so I'm not all up on "what Josh does".

SPDRPARKER

Thursday, October 20, 2005 3:22 AM

I never quite understand why people are so shocked and angry at Wash's fall.

I understand he was beloved, I get that, and clearly from my avatar icon and quote by my name, I joined in on this. Wash was my favorite character from the crew.

But he went out doing his duty for the crew in a more than noble cause, as well as one to protect the rest of the crew. Not the most heroic of ways, but still, he did what he did best and just got hit in the firefight.

The show never gave me a feeling that everything is always going to be alright in the end, so it always made it good when it did. But put the crew in that big of a fight and walk away with that limited of casualties, still comes out real well, and the characters all grow and adapt to the events.

I can't seriously believe that of a crew of 9 through all the events and violence of the film or even most other sci-fi action films that all would survive....in fact, asking for most would normally be a lot.

Also, remember, the death of a character doesn't change the fact that they're a good character. It just ends their journey.

Corbitt
Just that gorram shiny

AURAPTOR

Thursday, October 20, 2005 3:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ItWasAllADream:
I agree that Serenity sucked, just because of the "surprise" twist, the one that ruined my whole family's night, the one that made my 11-year old daughter ball her eyes out.

I loved the effects, the adventure and especially the shinning the light of truth on current events with modern drugging of our own society.

But, IF this wasn't just a dream sequence and things aren't returned to normal, I don't think I'll be a fan anymore.

My family and I really loved the show, not because there were life threatning adventures, but mostly because of the comedy and great characters.

I don't agree that Serenity sucked, having seen it again today ( that makes 8?) Many on here have their druthers as to what Joss should/shouldn't have done for the movie, but it's not a bad movie. With Joss, things are never 'normal'. It's against his nature. Love him or loath him for that, it's what he does. Whether it's your 11 yr old daughter a man of 40 who cries, Joss would probably tell us that's what he wants. Not to be cruel, but to get us, as the viewer, to FEEL something for the characters. That emotional attatchment comes in happy to horrified, and everything in between.

Maybe you'll think twice before taking your 11 yr old to a PG-13 movie.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

JASONZZZ

Thursday, October 20, 2005 3:55 AM

Hello! "Firefly"Fans.net???

When did this turn into a "Serenity"Fans.net or "JossWhedon"Fans.net exclusive as well? You also don't necessarily have to be a JW worshipper to be here either - I presume. Good grief... no one is attacking you or your religious beliefs here... Let's cut to the more civil conversation and not just hop right into bashing the feller's head in. Give em some slack... lots of new fans on the board.

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Excuse me, can you think of a more confrontational thread title than "Joss Made My 11-yr-old Daughter Cry"? Well, all right "Joss Whedon is a complete bastard and emotional stunted my daughter" would be worse but still, it was a personalised attack and more than that, it was just another negative thread started purely for the reason of knocking the movie again.

This site is supposedly devoted to Firefly and Serenity fandom. We do not need fifteen new threads a day about how disappointed someone was in the movie. Or would you prefer it if everyone just poured out their bile on a daily basis?

Like Fireflyfans.net?
Haken needs new equipment to keep the site shiny. Donate.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=13317#185514

Given the freedom to do so, anarchy will result in an organic organization unto itself.

ANANTI

Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:08 AM

I would consider any piece of artistic work that can evoke enough emotions in me so as to make me cry a treasure.

ANGELCRUSHERD

Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:19 AM

People spend their entire infantism crying for no reason, crying because a beloved character dies isn't something to get mad over. I liked how Book died, I think it was an excellent way to wake everyone up. I didn't like how Wash died at all. I'm not going to whine about it because Joss has my complete respect, but I think Wash could've died a little better. It was out of nowhere, very similar to how Book died. Wash was my favorite character and I'm sure there will be plenty of flashbacks in Zoe's future, given that Alan comes back.

Ignore the MPAA and all the other liberal idiots who try to keep good stuff from you, the Firefly Verse is for everyone.

MEANGOLDFISH

Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:30 AM

i've heard a lot of talk about people hoping it's just all a big dream.

if it ends up being a big dream, that will ruin the whole movie for me. i don't like that Wash is dead, but you aren't supposed to. It's sad. When he died, I yelled out. It was horrible. But it happened, and if something were to come out saying the whole thing was a dream, well... that would be worse than having every crew member die.

having Wash die added suspense and a sense of danger that couldn't have been added any other way. for awhile there, i didn't think anybody was coming out alive.

DREAMTROVE

Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:35 AM

It's actually Joss, odd as that may seem.

Anyway meant no offense. I think the buffy and angel connection didn't help the film at the box office I say in agreement with what someone earlier suggested.

Perhaps here's a better way it could have been put:

"From the man who brought you Titan AE, Alien Resurrection and Firefly comes a chilling tale of life on the edge..."

or something like that, because honestly, that would give people a much better view of what to expect than

"From the creator of Buffy and Angel..."

Which does kind of make you think "Fluff Fantasy"

rather than "someone's going to get decapitated here, and it might be someone we like."

technically i think they want you to put spoilers like that in the little spoiler brackets, but i suspect everyone here has seen the film at least once.

ORPHEUS

Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:40 AM

Agreed. I know a lot of people who are skeptical about Serenity based solely on the fact that they hate Buffy and Angel. Definitely not the right way to market a film; by playing up the TV that Joss made.

Besides, killing Wash was such a well used plot device. I really hate that I just called a friend's death a plot device, but it worked so well, that I find it hard to believe that someone wouldn't buy it.

LADYBLUE

Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ItWasAllADream:

But, IF this wasn't just a dream sequence and things aren't returned to normal, I don't think I'll be a fan anymore.

Itwasalladream - I agree with you here.

As a matter of fact I told my friend (non-Firefly but avid Buffy/Angel fan) that Wash was dead. She scoffed and said "You can't believe everything Joss writes, afterall he has killed and brought characters back to life before"

ANGELCRUSHERD

Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by meangoldfish:
i've heard a lot of talk about people hoping it's just all a big dream.

if it ends up being a big dream, that will ruin the whole movie for me. i don't like that Wash is dead, but you aren't supposed to. It's sad. When he died, I yelled out. It was horrible. But it happened, and if something were to come out saying the whole thing was a dream, well... that would be worse than having every crew member die.

having Wash die added suspense and a sense of danger that couldn't have been added any other way. for awhile there, i didn't think anybody was coming out alive.

I agree completely. Wash and Book's deaths meld with the whole Firefly trend, in my opinion. I loved Alan's character and didn't expect anything to happen to him at all, but Joss predicted as much. I'm intrigued at how much courage Joss has to film his vision regardless of what the media expects of him.

Any attempt that I can imagine to ressurect Wash or Book would ruin my current relationship with Firefly. That, of course, doesn't rule ressurection out. If they do come back, Joss will make it work. As a new age Browncoat, I've gotta say that Joss is like a God to his fans. I will always be a fan of Firefly, I owe it to Joss for letting his story grace my life.

CPTJACKMURRAY

Thursday, October 20, 2005 5:00 AM

NO WONDER IT MADE HER CRY!!! I'M FOURTEEN AND I JUST ACCIDENTLY READ THE BASIC SPOILER (No I still haven't seen the movie ) AND I ALMOST CRIED MY EYES OUT THE ONLY THINGS THAT KEPT ME FROM DOING IT WAS #1 if i told my friend why I was crying he would probobly laugh...after he killed me for telling him a spoiler. #2 my neighbor died about two days later so I was more distraught over her. She was like a grandmother to me....

I;m like the crew of Serenity; You got a job? I can do it. Don't much care what it is.

ROCKETJOCK

Thursday, October 20, 2005 5:19 AM

When I was five years old, Walt Disney made me cry. Bambi's mother wasn't coming back, and I hated him.

I was about eleven when Trusty sacrificed himself to keep Tramp from being put to sleep. When Jock howled for him, I felt his loss.

Then, two minutes later, it turned out all Trusty had done was break his right front paw. All I could think of was, "what a cheat!" Walt Disney was talking down to me; I felt insulted.

Joss shocked me to the core, but he did not insult me.

I feel driven to add perspective here. Last night a friend of mine died, a man I'd known for twenty years, a man who stood as godparent to my children. Today I cried as I have not cried for a grave long time, not the least when I had to break the news to my daughter.

A daughter's tears are not an easy thing to bear. My heart is with you. But this is not the worst hurt she will have to face in life.

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

PSYCHICRIVER

Thursday, October 20, 2005 9:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LadyBlue:
Quote:
Originally posted by ItWasAllADream:

But, IF this wasn't just a dream sequence and things aren't returned to normal, I don't think I'll be a fan anymore.

Itwasalladream - I agree with you here.

As a matter of fact I told my friend (non-Firefly but avid Buffy/Angel fan) that Wash was dead. She scoffed and said "You can't believe everything Joss writes, afterall he has killed and brought characters back to life before"

but whats the point in the BDM if it was all a dream? Did Browncoats really fight for a movie...during which everything that happens...never actually happened??

And as for what you're friend said...that was Buffy & Angel. This is Serenity. I think it's pretty definite that Wash is gone for good.

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."

"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."

ENGINEANGEL

Thursday, October 20, 2005 11:21 AM

the first part of your post is sooooooo true PhsycicRiver. Wash's death tore me up and i want him back, but not if it's going to be in a cheesy way like the movie was all a dream (and do you think that Joss would do that? I mean come on!!!). I'm in favor of some other ideas. I don't have the time to write them down again so if you would like to know them, or if you want look at more discussions about Wash's death, how it affected people, and how to bring him back, click on this link: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=13372&m . It's a really great thread!!!

keep flyin'
EngineAngel

Wash, you were the best gorram pilot in the verse. Rest In Peace (and then come back again!!!)

MALMALADE

Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by engineangel:
the first part of your post is sooooooo true PhsycicRiver. Wash's death tore me up and i want him back, but not if it's going to be in a cheesy way like the movie was all a dream (and do you think that Joss would do that? I mean come on!!!). I'm in favor of some other ideas. I don't have the time to write them down again so if you would like to know them, or if you want look at more discussions about Wash's death, how it affected people, and how to bring him back, click on this link: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=13372&m . It's a really great thread!!!

keep flyin'
EngineAngel

Wash, you were the best gorram pilot in the verse. Rest In Peace (and then come back again!!!)

Considering the cast have been regularly quoted as saying that they are ALL signed up for the next 2 films if there are any more, it will be interesting to see if and how Wash and Book are resurrected. DNA, anyone?

"I have come here to chew bubbglegum and kick ass, and I'm all out of bubblegum".

TINFOIL

Thursday, October 20, 2005 1:13 PM

If you aren't a fan now just because Wash isn't part of the show, were you ever really a fan? I mean, I take that as you were a fan of Wash's character, but indifferent to the rest of the setting. If that's the case, shiny. I've enjoyed characters without enjoying the rest of the cast/show.

However, if you've lost all the love for a show just because of a couple deaths, you have to ask yourself why you were a fan in the first place. Book dieing was horrible. Wash dieing was horrible. All of it made you question if everyone was going to die. It made you angry at the Alliance. It made you want Mal to get to that back up signal so bad you could taste it... Just like it was supposed to.

And as for your daughter, I'm gonna guess there were a lot of tears by a lot of people. Heck, I'm a 27 year old, semi-large man and I could barely take it. Feeling real emotions while watching obviously fictional characters in an obviously fictional setting is damn hard to do and Joss pulled it off. If that doesn't make you a fan, I recommend Spaceballs...

(quick note - I love Spaceballs too)

FIREFLOOZYSUZIE

Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:06 PM

((MATT!!!))

Did you cry too?

Actually, this is a good place for me to reiterate the experience I had taking the niece and nephew to see "Serenity." The eight-year-old loved it, boy addicted to blow-em-ups and adventure that he is. The eleven-year-old GIRL however...very disturbed by scenes of Miranda. That was something I hadn't even considered, that the decaying corpse thing would be really upsetting to some children.

Gotta be ready to deal with those kinds of reactions when you bring kids...and some adults. But would you rather that audiences were so jaded that nobody felt a single thing, nor wept a single tear?

Now THAT would be truly horrifying.

But I must add: Does everyone who is upset require their OWN LITTLE VENTING THREAD? C'mon, already. Get over yourselves. If you want to piss and moan and grieve and rip your clothes over Wash etc., do it in one of the many, many other threads where you'll have the company of other teeth-gnashers. This proliferation of whiner threads? Annoying, very annoying.

THESOMNAMBULIST

Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:36 PM

Ok no offence to anybody intended here but may I just say.... Sorry your daughter cryed and/or was disturbed by what she saw.

However in fairness the TV show had deaths, injuries, drama, comedy and tragedy even nudity... (Mals exhinitionism)

Now as I recall the film included no more than the TV series did. So why were you so surprised?

Select to view spoiler:

Because Wash was killed off?

You took your daughter to the cinema. Not Joss and while I'm not attacking your decision to bring your daughter along to the film I do think you have to take responsibility for it.

While I appreciate you not liking a direction the narrative may have taken - it's thankfully not up to you or I to determine this. If this is how we'd like it then maybe we should write our own show and incur the very hard work that this demands.

It's incredibly difficult for a writer director to keep all who watch a film happy about every aspect of it's story line. I would have presumed, I guess, that as an adult you would be aware of this and perhaps prepared yourself that Serenity may be somewhat different to the TV show, given that it is presented on a much larger and wider scale than the TV show.

Again I mean no offence.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

FLETCH2

Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:01 PM

I grew up with Blake's 7. In my opinion the moment they killed the first hero character Gan the series stepped up a notch. In the days before internet spoilers you never knew if they planned to kill someone off this week. If a character got in a life threatening situation you were there at the edge of your seat each time because you knew there was a chance he wouldnt make it. Watching the crew fly off at the end of the episode was an excuse tgo breathe again.....

...... until next week.

Knowing that a writer is not afraid to kill heroes completely changes the emotional dynamic of the show. It means you do have to worry if someone is in a tight fix. When Kaylee took those dart things in the neck I swear I didnt breathe again for 7 or 8 minutes!

I loved Wash, I think I liked him more than I like Jayne, but man his demise made all the difference to those last few scenes.

CITIZEN

Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:25 PM

ItWasAllADream:
You said you didn't mind us being confrontational, so I hope you don't take offence:

Select to view spoiler:

Book's death really didn't hit me. People say it had a point, and from a story point of view, it did. But I didn't really feel anything from it.
When Wash died it was a kick in the teeth. It didn't mean anything, from a story point of view, but death seldom does. It was real. Painfully real.
And the fact that your daughter cried indicates it was real for her too.
From that moment on, for the first time ever when watching a film, I wasn't sure if there was going to be a happy ending, I wasn't sure the crew was going to get out in the end.
That moment, for me elevated the movie from a passable to good Sci-Fi flick, to a classic.
I've never been put on the edge of my seat with worry from a film before.

Would you prefer Star Trek where all the main characters miraculously escape, and so the danger never feels real?

And as for a dream:
What, you wanna turn FireFly into a bad episode of Dallas? (Remembering all episodes of Dallas were diabolical...)
There was a Q/A I was at not long ago which Joss attended. I had two questions I wanted to ask (unfortunatly I didn't get to ask either). One was this:

As much as the death of Wash and Book hurt, you won't do something stupid and Star Trekky and bring them back, will you?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you Beeeer Milkshakes!
Even though I might, even though I try,
I can't

DONCOAT

Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:47 PM

WARNING: Totally insensitive and politically incorrect response is within the spoiler area below. If you even think that such a comment might bother or offend you, move on!

Select to view spoiler:

So, Joss made an eleven-year old girl cry? What's the big deal? I'm sure even I could do that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

JAYTEE

Thursday, October 20, 2005 9:02 PM

In a way it kind of elevates my already high opinion of Joss Whedon when he can make an 11 year old cry, although that's not too difficult a task under most circumstances it is a significant achievment from just having the kid watch a movie. I got a bit teary eyed during the "killer" scene but all I have to say to this kid's parents is get over it. Just tell the kid to "suck it up!"

PSYCHICRIVER

Thursday, October 20, 2005 9:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by firefloozysuzie:
((MATT!!!))

Did you cry too?

My Suze!! And erm, no...maybe. Okay!! I admit it! Balled like a baby!

And can I tear my clothes off for the sherr hell of it?

Also, are you guys definitely not going to the Flanvention.

~(Hint, the answer is "No, we're coming!")~

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."

"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."

INIRE

Thursday, October 20, 2005 9:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Joss has said it a few times, he's not trying to shelter children from reality. If actions don't have consequences, I will be very disappointed.

Ditto That. I'm sorry people can't be fans anymore because the gorram movie got made, but thats their yank.

4 times and counting. gets better every shiny time.

FALLENANGEL

Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by spdrparker:

Also, remember, the death of a character doesn't change the fact that they're a good character. It just ends their journey.

Corbitt
Just that gorram shiny

In Wash's case that journey was sort...short.

I admit. I cried too. I love Wash. Love Alan too. Still a bit heartbroken about it. Was very very mad. Hey, it made the last mintues of the movie very, very suspensful. I was grabing the armrest so tight till my knuckles turned white.
Also, I think if the writer of book, flim, tv show or whatever, can make u care SO much for their fictional chacaters and make them feel so real that you cry when they die or you jump up from your feet and root for them when they make through something really really tough or just basically make you feel any emotion for the characters, then that's a sign of a BIG DAMN good writer.

P.s. Just have a long talk to your kid bout the diffence of Reality and Make-believe.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."

-Wash.

SLAYER730

Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:54 PM

I think the concept of potentially no longer being a fan if "the movie isn't a dream" or some such is just ridiculous! That's basically saying that you don't really have respect enough for the other actors to watch more if they make a sequel, simply because Alan is not part of the project. Yes, I love Wash. Do I think he's the driving force of the cast and I can't go on without him? No. I don't think there's any Firefly/Serenity character I would say that about. Sure, Wash's death hit hard. But so did Joyce's, Jenny Calendar's, Tara's, Anya's, and Wesley's. It's just something Joss does to shake us up and let us know that yes, we are emotionally invested...and that's a good thing. I would be extremely disappointed if Wash and Book returned in anything other than a flashback. It would feel cheap and forced. It would also take all of the impact out of the death scene every time you watched it again. I don't want to watch my Serenity dvd someday down the road and view the Wash death scene with mild interest knowing that "he'll be back in the sequel". That would bother me greatly. Besides, Buffy died 3 times,(drowned, shot, and jumped into vortex), and THAT was excessive. I say leave the dead buried, work in a few well-placed flashbacks, and move on.

***Never judge a book by its movie***

ECGORDON

Thursday, October 20, 2005 11:06 PM

Damn, I've been a member of this site for a couple of years and hardly anyone ever responds to my posts. But this guy registers yesterday and posts his bitching just once and gets 39 replies.

Does that seem right to you?

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

FIREFLOOZYSUZIE

Thursday, October 20, 2005 11:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PsychicRiver:
Quote:
Originally posted by firefloozysuzie:
((MATT!!!))

Did you cry too?
My Suze!! And erm, no...maybe. Okay!! I admit it! Balled like a baby!

And can I tear my clothes off for the sherr hell of it?

Also, are you guys definitely not going to the Flanvention.

~(Hint, the answer is "No, we're coming!")~

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."
"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."

I'd love to say we'd be there but the Holiday Show is back on again (gorram high school has been messing with my daughter, back and forth). So you'll have to go in our place, PsychBoy.

I think the UK Browncoats are having a Christmas party the weekend that you're in California, too, by the way. What, did you do something to piss them off? (a little TOO much attention from Miss Glau, maybe??)

NERVOUSPETE

Thursday, October 20, 2005 11:40 PM

Joss: "For the sequel it will be announced that the BDM was all a dream! When you saw Wash die, well, that never happened at all!"

Flans: "Hurrah!"

Joss: "No, what happened was it all another strange vision in River's mind..."

Flans: "Uh-huh, oooh, mm-hm, keep going..."

Joss: "... y'see it was a psychotic delusion she was having from the trauma of having shot dead Inara, Zoe and Simon AND Wash in the head with a gun, only now waking up at the start of the new film, with a distraught Jayne, Kaylee and Mal begging her for their lives!"

Flans: "Kill him."

"If you can keep your head whilst others... eurgh! Ack! I've spilt my ink! Ugh! Ink on my trousers! Agh! Ink on my shirt! My only hope! The window! Aieeeeee!" (Falls to death)
- Jonathan Nash

DONCOAT

Friday, October 21, 2005 12:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Damn, I've been a member of this site for a couple of years and hardly anyone ever responds to my posts. But this guy registers yesterday and posts his bitching just once and gets 39 replies.

Does that seem right to you?

Did somebody say something?

Did anybody hear somebody say something?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

SMOKE

Friday, October 21, 2005 12:30 AM

Can't forget about Book. Wash and Book are gone, not just wash. *tear* I promised my self I wouldn't cry. WHY JOSS, WHYYYYYYY!!

KELLAINA

Friday, October 21, 2005 12:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Damn, I've been a member of this site for a couple of years and hardly anyone ever responds to my posts. But this guy registers yesterday and posts his bitching just once and gets 39 replies.

Does that seem right to you?

Nope.

But then, after reading all of these threads, I'm wondering why I didn't cry for either death (or even get teary) and why I find Book's death more gratuitous and less plot-developing than Wash's.

My opinion obviously can't be trusted

.

If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. -"Angel"

Hell with this; I'm gonna live. - Kaylee, Serenity

Browncoat? Canadian? Join us:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/canadianbrowncoats/

JASURPIE

Friday, October 21, 2005 12:53 AM

im sorry your daughter was upset but to say the move sucked is complete blasfamey and u should be stoned into a councusion i know its a movie but the show and movie for the most part has been mostly realistic and ppl die in real life and i too am distraught that it was wash because his dinosaurs will be lonly and i think the doc should have gotten it but for one small mistake you shouldnt hate a great work of art and your daughter is getting to learn some dificult things she is gonna have ppl around her die sooner or later but but its better now because he is fictinal and now she will be less disapointed when someone else dies

sry for the rant in short dont hate participate

GOTKAYLEE

Friday, October 21, 2005 1:44 AM

Quote:
Joss: "For the sequel it will be announced that the BDM was all a dream! When you saw Wash die, well, that never happened at all!"

Flans: "Hurrah!"

Joss: "No, what happened was it all another strange vision in River's mind..."

Flans: "Uh-huh, oooh, mm-hm, keep going..."

Joss: "... y'see it was a psychotic delusion she was having from the trauma of having shot dead Inara, Zoe and Simon AND Wash in the head with a gun, only now waking up at the start of the new film, with a distraught Jayne, Kaylee and Mal begging her for their lives!"

Flans: "Kill him."

NervousPete, you're my hero. Everyone in the library is currently not my friend because of how much I laughed. I thank you.

"They were little geisha dolls with big heads that wobbled!"

BALLAD

Friday, October 21, 2005 2:06 AM

GotKaylee: Really? you laughed more at that one than you did at this one:?

Quote:
Originally posted by jasurpie:
im sorry your daughter was upset but to say the move sucked is complete blasfamey and u should be stoned into a councusion i know its a movie but the show and movie for the most part has been mostly realistic and ppl die in real life and i too am distraught that it was wash because his dinosaurs will be lonly and i think the doc should have gotten it but for one small mistake you shouldnt hate a great work of art and your daughter is getting to learn some dificult things she is gonna have ppl around her die sooner or later but but its better now because he is fictinal and now she will be less disapointed when someone else dies

sry for the rant in short dont hate participate

Cause that one made me spit milk all over my moniter. Hee hee. 'Blasfamey'

--Ballad

They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot. Now they see the sky, and they remember what they are.

ABILITY6

Friday, October 21, 2005 2:26 AM

For me personally, the most emtionally resonant moment of the BDM (and there were several) was when River ran into the teeth of the reavers to save her brother and friends...I was emotionally invested because of what had already happened to Book and Wash, so the scene possessed real courage and sacrifice that would have been lessened without the previous deaths.

"Yolanda?"

DANFAN

Friday, October 21, 2005 2:49 AM

Rocketjock,

"Last night a friend of mine died..."

My condolences for your loss. Very important perspective indeed.

Serenity is fiction... all one has to do is leave the theater and go back to their life. Your loss is real, and more lasting. My thoughts are with you.

FOLLOWMAL

Friday, October 21, 2005 3:15 AM

Gosh, I'm almost cross eyed from reading all the posts.

My Mom and I went to see Serenity for the 3rd time today.... and when we got to the part of first Book's and then Wash's deaths, we could hardly bare to look. We cried for the third time, and there were tears in the row behind us. My Mom kept saying, "I can't stand to watch this part."

My father passed away a year ago come Christmas, and we have been devastated. The fact that this story made us feel grief for these characters, and fear for the rest is as close to genius writing as I know.
Joss writes "real" and gets "real" reactions.

And I'm grateful. Bad and good I'm so glad I found this story.

Real life if rough and full of pain. The best of our stories are the same. That is what makes them the best of our stories. And this movie fits in with the best of them.

FollowMal

FOLLOWMAL

Friday, October 21, 2005 3:16 AM

Gosh, I'm almost cross eyed from reading all the posts.

My Mom and I went to see Serenity for the 3rd time today.... and when we got to the part of first Book's and then Wash's deaths, we could hardly bare to look. We cried for the third time, and there were tears in the row behind us. My Mom kept saying, "I can't stand to watch this part."

My father passed away a year ago come Christmas, and we have been devastated. The fact that this story made us feel grief for these characters, and fear for the rest is as close to genius writing as I know.
Joss writes "real" and gets "real" reactions.

And I'm grateful. Bad and good I'm so glad I found this story.

Real life is rough and full of pain. The best of our stories are the same. That is what makes them the best of our stories. And this movie fits in with the best of them.

FollowMal

AUXARC

Friday, October 21, 2005 3:48 AM

Just my two cents worth about the movie. I'm new here, so I apologize if I step on any toes. I am ultimately okay with Wash's death. This does not mean that I was not saddened, but to paraphrase an earlier post for the complete crew to have lived would have felt very Walt Disneyish. I would have felt cheated then. That being said, I don't understand why every claims that Wash's death is less than heroic. He died fighting in the belief that he was doing a better good, a right. Mal gave them all a chance to leave. He chose to stay. Several times throughout the film Wash showed himself to be a hero. He piloted the ship to a safe landing and died trying to get the communication device to Mr. Universe. If he died ten minutes before or ten minutes after would he death been more heroic? Just because a post went through Wash doesn't negate the character, movie, or death. I can only assume that the unexpectedness of the death is what is causing the disgust, but in so many cases, this is life. I've had grandparents die and have known a few young people to pass away after an extended illness. All have hurt, but in the back of my mind I had time to prepare, to accept, and to say goodbye. It was the sudden death of my sister in a car accident on the way to classes that still hurts to the core. Joss has an uncanny way of portraying death the way it often is, sudden and unexpected, often to healthy people on a pretty day. Even in Buffy, her mother suvives the brain tumor only to suddenly later.
Mercifully for me, Joss has done several things in the movie to help accept Wash's loss.
First, the death wasn't at the very end as the last scene. I hate watching a movie to have a person die at the last three minutes with no true resolution. Second, I was allowed to see the crew move on. I got to see them say good-bye to both Book and Wash with a funeral. Seeing the other characters accept and mourn the deaths and move on helped me to move on. Joss ended the movie nicely with the exchanges about the ship being bumpy but riding true and the storm becoming bad but passing through it. I thought the movie needed these exchanges, and it helped me with the character losses of Wash and Book because it lets you know right away that the crew of Serenity will be okay. They will make a new normal and have new adventures.

DATALESS

Friday, October 21, 2005 3:49 AM

I now love Serenity even more if it could make an eleven year old cry. I have to see it again. I can picture it the little girl walking out of the theater crying and daddy trying to confort her but failing miserably. It does my heart good. I bet she owned a copy of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas before the AO rating change too.

AUXARC

Friday, October 21, 2005 3:54 AM

I just wanted to add that Wash almost had to die the place and way that he did. If he (or any other character) had died from a reaver at the end only to find out five minutes later that River was able to kill all the Reavers when she concentrated on the deed or was properly motivated the audience would really have hated the ending. Injuries that would later get better is a lot more acceptable that a preventable character death to the general public.

FLYINGTAMS

Friday, October 21, 2005 4:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Excuse me, can you think of a more confrontational thread title than "Joss Made My 11-yr-old Daughter Cry"? Well, all right "Joss Whedon is a complete bastard and emotional stunted my daughter" would be worse but still, it was a personalised attack and more than that, it was just another negative thread started purely for the reason of knocking the movie again.

This site is supposedly devoted to Firefly and Serenity fandom. We do not need fifteen new threads a day about how disappointed someone was in the movie. Or would you prefer it if everyone just poured out their bile on a daily basis?

You are the one who came across as an asshole here.

MER

Friday, October 21, 2005 2:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
I advise you to sue. Sue Joss, sue Universal. Your daughter has obviously suffered psychological damage and you need to be compensated.

You're just saying that so Serenity gets some viewers in, aren't ya? Anything that people complain about being offense gets viewers in...like South Park when it first started.

But this is a serious subject. Everybody already said what was necessary, I don't need to add my view to make the woman feel any worse.

MALSWAY

Friday, October 21, 2005 7:16 PM

Joss has made me cry often. It's one of the reasons I'm such a huge fan. Anyone who can make me care about (fictional) people like Joss does, deserves my emotional response.

Heck, even after seeing the Buffy season 2 finale - Becoming, Part 2 - uncountable times, I still cry EVERY TIME I see it.

Thanks, Joss!

MER

Friday, October 21, 2005 11:19 PM

Oh my god lol. It's really funny for me while rewatching any of his shows I absolutely know whee and which scene I'll cry in. You can here me say, "Damn it!" as tears start to fall.

I first accounted this while rewatching Season 2 some yrs ago. God I'm right on cue.

CAUSAL

Saturday, October 22, 2005 12:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by firefloozysuzie:
But I must add: Does everyone who is upset require their OWN LITTLE VENTING THREAD? C'mon, already. Get over yourselves. If you want to piss and moan and grieve and rip your clothes over Wash etc., do it in one of the many, many other threads where you'll have the company of other teeth-gnashers. This proliferation of whiner threads? Annoying, very annoying.

At the risk of offending everybody whose posts I skip, I've decided that Susie is absolutely right on this score. I'm already in enough turmoil over box office results. I don't need a lot of whinging over the way the plot went. Yeesh!

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

PSYCHICRIVER

Saturday, October 22, 2005 11:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Quote:
Originally posted by firefloozysuzie:
But I must add: Does everyone who is upset require their OWN LITTLE VENTING THREAD? C'mon, already. Get over yourselves. If you want to piss and moan and grieve and rip your clothes over Wash etc., do it in one of the many, many other threads where you'll have the company of other teeth-gnashers. This proliferation of whiner threads? Annoying, very annoying.

At the risk of offending everybody whose posts I skip, I've decided that Susie is absolutely right on this score. I'm already in enough turmoil over box office results. I don't need a lot of whinging over the way the plot went. Yeesh!

Agreed. Susie is right.

Am I surprised? No.

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."

"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."

XEROGRAVITY

Saturday, October 22, 2005 1:41 PM

the bottom line...

joss made her/his (it?) 11 year old cry.

he also made my 98 year old grandmother spit out her false teeth. shame on u joss whedon, u cruel depriver of the elderly's chance at gnawing pretzels (oppressor!).

sad part 'bout this post... 60+ responses. The title post was an attention-getter that had nothing to do with the subject matter, but we nibbled on it anyhow.

XG

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

Q2JESTER

Saturday, October 22, 2005 2:08 PM

Late 40's... bawled my eyes out. (and was far from alone) Love the movie. Gets better every time.

And I still bawl my eyes out - even when I know what's coming.

MER

Saturday, October 22, 2005 2:40 PM

O-o I laughed the 3rd time I saw it. I only did that because I knew I was supposed to cry and my friends who were around me already doing it and it made me laugh.

God I'm evil. Let's see if I cry the next time I go. I might try t o convince them to take in a movie after shopping today.

EMMA

Saturday, October 22, 2005 2:58 PM

I have said this a million times before (ok, so I exaggerate) but please...

If you think you are going to be annoyed by a thread don't read it.

Everybody is entitled to post what they want (evil trolls excluded). Everybody is entitled to their own opinions. Everybody is entitled to a good old debate about whether or not this film sucked or was the best thing ever.

What is really annoying me is how people of opposite opinions are being vitriolic and rude about those with diverging opinions. If you disagree with someone fine, but please just ignore them or politely say why you disagree. This is especially because it can be very hard to understand people's exact meanings when they post - communication is largely understood through body language. We do not have that luxury.

This is my opinion, if you disagree cool but slagging me off because you disagree, not cool.

Maybe I should change my sig, this seems to be the only thing I am saying these days, where has the fun gone on this board? I think the Real World Discussions have been lighter...back to evolution then for me *sigh*

extremely dimensionally transcendental

PSYCHICRIVER

Saturday, October 22, 2005 10:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:

he also made my 98 year old grandmother spit out her false teeth. shame on u joss whedon, u cruel depriver of the elderly's chance at gnawing pretzels (oppressor!).

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."

"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."

MEANGOLDFISH

Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:08 AM

this thread is still going on?

DATADOX

Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:44 AM

11-yr-old Daugter < PG13

ROCKETJOCK

Sunday, October 23, 2005 8:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by danfan:
My thoughts are with you.

Thank you.

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

EMPTY

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 7:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

Let's cut to the more civil conversation and not just hop right into bashing the feller's head in.

I agree, pitchforks + torches at the ready browncoats

Haken needs a new development system. Donate.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283

--I INVENTED THE SPECIAL HELL!

R1Z

Thursday, November 3, 2005 7:11 AM

To paraphrase Mr. Heinlein:

The purpose of art is to move the viewer, with terror or pity, or perhaps sorrow. It's why we take part of the artistic process, as viewers, spectaters, listeners. It's a tribute to the skills of the film makers. Too much and you have schmaltz, not enough and we have a film we don't care about.

I cried, too. And then I realized that it was a film, a work of fiction. I'd worry more about a daughter concerned that Reavers were going to attack her town than one who mourned a sympathetic character.

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

THESENTINEL

Thursday, November 3, 2005 12:55 PM

ITWASALLADREAM,

I want to apologize on behalf of an over-zealous fanbase for your mistreatment here in this thread. Folks tend to forget that this is a discussion board for folks to express their opinion on something they love (which judging by your strong reaction, includes you and your daughter).

A lot of folks on these fan sites are afraid to hear any form of disappointment in their "true love" because they feel a naysayer will crumble their precious obsession. I used to be one of those folks. Was a huge fan of a game that has now been destroyed.

What folks don't realize is that their attacks do more to hurt the show by running off folks who otherwise would prove to be valuable supporters.

On another note, try watching Serenity a second time now that you know the results. I watched it for the first time knowing the outcome and without the SHOCK I think I enjoyed the movie better.

STICK with us and with Firefly...

Adam

THESENTINEL

Thursday, November 3, 2005 12:56 PM

And by the way, she should have cried... I'd be more concerned if she didn't! Hell it teared me up.

TALLGRRL

Thursday, November 3, 2005 2:31 PM

No, Joss didn't make your 11-year old daughter cry.
YOU made your daughter cry by:
1. Taking her to a movie that's rated PG 13, you heel.
2. Not exposing your daughter to books and stories where things don't always turn out the way you think they "should". In other words, Life Isn't Always Fair.
You thought the movie sucked because something unpleasant happens?
I guess I feel sorry for you AND your daughter.
Sheesh.
So, you must be new to the Whedonverse.
Or maybe you don't read a whole lot.
Maybe you never read any Shakespere (sp?), eh?
Or saw any movies like...
Oh never mind.

"Take me, sir. Take me hard." -- Zoe

MACPRO75

Thursday, November 3, 2005 3:33 PM

I haven't read all the replies on this thread, so I may be retreading over ground already covered, and if so, I apologize.

Quote:
No, I didn't really watch Buffy or Angel, so I'm not all up on "what Josh does".

Joss takes his characters on incredible journeys. He will make a beloved character go from being "good" to horrifically evil for a few minutes, an episode or more, or even an entire season. Then he'll flip it all around again. A character you have loathed since their introduction, you care about within a single episode. It's masterful.

The same way that he can put broad comedy and angst within a single shot or few moments of dialogue, that is how he can turn his characters around. And you know what? That is actually a fun ride. It's like the character you've loved still exists, and now there's also a completely new character wearing its face

Select to view spoiler:

which is sometimes literally the case on Buffy and Angel, but I digress.

Other times, you are just watching a character on this incredible personal journey and it is some of the most compelling entertainment ever produced, IMHO.

But more importantly, and this is one of the things that I find so needless about this derisiveness within the Firefly ranks, is the way Joss has traditionally used his actors. He USES his actors, and I mean that in a good way. Supposedly the joke was that the best way to get more work on a Whedon show was to get killed. I've always said that if I was an actor, I would want to be "Dead guy" on page 2 of a Whedon script.

For instance, (Buffy spoilers)

Select to view spoiler:

Julie Benz is an actress who unsuccessfully auditioned for the part of Buffy. Joss gave her a short stint as a character named Darla. After Darla was killed after appearing in probably less than 10 episodes, that character appeared endlessly (sorry, I didn't care for Darla until the bitter end -- a single episode swung me around). Darla was often in Buffy and regularly in the spin-off Angel.

(end Buffy spoilers)

There are those who say that the Buffy and Angel 'verses were magic based and Joss can't do the same stuff in Firefly. It's set 500 years in the future. Joss can drive a truck through that. And should things, er, "change", it won't be "cheesy" or belie or minimize what occurred in Serenity. Joss is a better writer than that.

The thing with Joss is that he plans his story arcs YEARS in advance. That is why he can plant little obscure things that you learn the significance of only later. My personal opinion is that Joss knows where this is going in every possible contingency: if this is the last story; if there is one sequel; if there is a trilogy; if there is a return to TV.

Joss himself was quoted in Serenity The Visual Companion as saying "By the way, there's a strong possiblity that everybody would return for a sequel. How is that possible? Not my usual way -- there are no amulets to be had for love or money. But there's every chance you could see these characters again."

I know this is a long post, but there is such a rich tapestry that was woven by Joss for the Buffy and Angel fans. We were given the time to learn something that the fans of only Firefly were denied (stupid Fox *spit*): Your travels with Joss will almost never go in the direction you expect. But ultimately, it will be a better journey than you could ever have planned.

macpro75

_________________________________________________

"I dislike violence, but I'm awfully good at it."

KELLAINA

Thursday, November 3, 2005 6:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by macpro75:

Joss himself was quoted in Serenity The Visual Companion as saying "By the way, there's a strong possiblity that everybody would return for a sequel. How is that possible? Not my usual way -- there are no amulets to be had for love or money. But there's every chance you could see these characters again."

This reminds me of the conversation I had with two friends while walking through the parking lot after seeing Serenity. One of them had not watched Firefly beforehand and the other had seen three episodes (Ariel was one, not sure what the other two were). Basically, they were wondering how Wash could be incorporated back into the story, now that he was dead. My response was that one of the best episodes of the series was told almost entirely in flashback.

Anything's possible.

Quote:
I know this is a long post, but there is such a rich tapestry that was woven by Joss for the Buffy and Angel fans. We were given the time to learn something that the fans of only Firefly were denied (stupid Fox *spit*): Your travels with Joss will almost never go in the direction you expect. But ultimately, it will be a better journey than you could ever have planned.

So true. Thank you for posting that.

To the original poster: Have you seen the movie again? I'm just curious as to your reaction the second time.

Hell with this; I'm gonna live! - Kaylee "Serenity"

If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. -"Angel"

Browncoat? Canadian? Join us:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/canadianbrowncoats/

THANATUS

Thursday, November 3, 2005 7:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tallgrrl:
No, Joss didn't make your 11-year old daughter cry.
YOU made your daughter cry by:
1. Taking her to a movie that's rated PG 13, you heel.
2. Not exposing your daughter to books and stories where things don't always turn out the way you think they "should". In other words, Life Isn't Always Fair.
You thought the movie sucked because something unpleasant happens?
I guess I feel sorry for you AND your daughter.
Sheesh.
So, you must be new to the Whedonverse.
Or maybe you don't read a whole lot.
Maybe you never read any Shakespere (sp?), eh?
Or saw any movies like...
Oh never mind.

"Take me, sir. Take me hard." -- Zoe

Right on, TALLGRRL! Keep spreading the good news! (take another drink of Kool Aid!)
There is no place for your style of ad hominem troll-esgue attack in civil discourse. To those who loved the

Select to view spoiler:

deaths of Book and Wash

and/or thought they made they movie great...what would your opinions be if everyone came out unscathed? Would you all have been on the other side of the thread, as it were, posting thread titles such as

Select to view spoiler:

Joss sucks! How come nobody died?!

or

Select to view spoiler:

Serenity wasn't realistic at all!

etc. Let's just all try to be intellectually honest and civil, shall we?

Signed,
A Firefly Fan...

TALLGRRL

Thursday, November 3, 2005 11:11 PM

Oh please. Grow up. You're the only one sippin on Kool-Aid.
The "you know whats" were part of the story arc.
They happened because they happened.
Had they not happened, then I guess it would have been OK. Writer's perogative and all that.
And it's Joss's work. Not yours, not mine, and not the boards.
People on the boards who bitch about what someone else writes need to go and write something themselves.
When Things happen in a story, a mature person accepts it.
ESPECIALLY SINCE IT'S ONLY A MOVIE.
The mature person accepts it and appreciates it because it does happen in real life.
"Troll"? I got your troll, baby.
Because you don't know me, I'll let you in on something: When the first "you know what" happened, I was sad but not surprised.
When the 2nd "you know what" happened, I actually heard someone mutter "Son of a Bitch!"
That someone was ME.
When the big "you know what" happens, the emotion of the whole movie is ramped up because at that moment All Bets Are Off.
You are literally on the edge of your seat because if THAT can happen to that person...then who's next?!!!
Joss once said "if it makes you cry to see it, know that it made me cry when I wrote it".
The man knows what he's doing.
YOU put down the Kool-Aid.
And do some reading.
Please.

"Take me, sir. Take me hard." -- Zoe

RIVER6213

Thursday, November 3, 2005 11:23 PM

My depressive cycle is starting up so dont even go there pieface.

CHRISISALL

Friday, November 4, 2005 1:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tallgrrl:

Joss once said "if it makes you cry to see it, know that it made me cry when I wrote it".
The man knows what he's doing.

YOU GO, TALLGRRL!!!!!

Chrisisall, who still can't believe Lando and Chewie didn't kick the bucket in Jedi!!!

FALLENANGEL

Friday, November 4, 2005 2:38 AM

Quote:
Orginally posted by Tallgrrl:
Joss once said "If it makes you cry to see it, know that it made me cry when I wrote it". The man knows what he is doing.

"I love my captain."

That's actually quite touching. I think I might cry. Yes, the man sure knows what he is doing and I appauld him. Keep up the great work, Joss!

JOSS IS BOSS.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."

-Wash.

REALLYKAYLEE

Friday, November 4, 2005 3:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
My depressive cycle is starting up so dont even go there pieface.

quick dearie- head over to the random threads. it is a peaceful land and we will thrive!

shakespeare: more words than God.

JASONZZZ

Friday, November 4, 2005 7:10 AM

Tired of the "Buffy did this too" exprawations.

Personally never did like that hoaky, campy piece of $hit. pure pop trash - that was.

Like Fireflyfans.net?
Haken needs new equipment to keep the site shiny. Donate.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=13317#185514

Given the freedom to do so, anarchy will result in an organic organization unto itself.

TALLGRRL

Friday, November 4, 2005 4:54 PM

Well then it's good that you never watched it.
Oh...wait...I guess maybe you DID watch it.
And, oh my goodness, it wasn't for you! Imagine that!
I hope you got over it and moved on to something else.
Me? I liked Buffy but never got around to seeing it regularly.
It's now in my Netflix queue. Just after the last disc of Angel.

It's not about Buffy, dearie.
It's about a writer not afraid to go to places that aren't "safe" for the audience.
People get shot. People get hurt. People are in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Friends of "the wrong people" get caught in the shite storm. ("When your quarry goes to ground..." - The Operative)

As Mal said "It ain't 'a hand o' cards', it's called LIFE."

"Take me, sir. Take me hard." -- Zoe

THANATUS

Friday, November 4, 2005 5:49 PM

Tallgrrl...
Hate the game baby...don't hate the playa!

Me myself...thought the "you know whats" were cheap ploys at illiciting emotions. A better writer can evoke emotion in his audience in a slightly less "in your face" manner. All in all though...I ain't loosin' any sleep over it. My point was that there is no need to impugn someone's parenting skills and start calling them names (heel) for no other reason than they disliked something that you...cherish? And let me see if I've got this straight...because I didn't like something that you adore (didn't hate it either, BTW) you are able to discern that am illiterate and otherwise relatively uneducated? Wow! Can't argue with that logic! Finally...Joss as great literary luminary? Buffy, Angel, Slither...I'm guessing Firefly was a fluke. There! I said it! I feel liberated! And Tallgrrl...relaaaaax.

Much love...

TALLGRRL

Friday, November 4, 2005 7:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Thanatus:
Tallgrrl...
Hate the game baby...don't hate the playa!

Me myself...thought the "you know whats" were cheap ploys at illiciting emotions. A better writer can evoke emotion in his audience in a slightly less "in your face" manner. All in all though...I ain't loosin' any sleep over it. My point was that there is no need to impugn someone's parenting skills and start calling them names (heel) for no other reason than they disliked something that you...cherish? And let me see if I've got this straight...because I didn't like something that you adore (didn't hate it either, BTW) you are able to discern that am illiterate and otherwise relatively uneducated? Wow! Can't argue with that logic! Finally...Joss as great literary luminary? Buffy, Angel, Slither...I'm guessing Firefly was a fluke. There! I said it! I feel liberated! And Tallgrrl...relaaaaax.

Much love...

Hey, not hatin'.
I'm not droppin a heel bomb because someone didn't like what I liked.
I'm saying that someone who takes a child to movie that's rated above that child's ability to handle it is a heel.
Serenity is rated PG-13 for a reason. For lots of reasons, actually.
It's not about whether I "adored" the piece or not. Even if I didn't like the piece, my opinion would be the same.
Then to bitch about it with: "Joss made my 11 year old daughter cry!"?
Excuse me, but I wasn't gonna let that slide on by.
And "literary luminary"? Um, yer words. Not mine.

I'm just saying that Joss knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote the script for Serenity.
And I ain't mad at him.
(Well, I was for about 15 seconds.)
Like I said: not hatin'.

Peace

"Take me, sir. Take me hard." -- Zoe

THANATUS

Friday, November 4, 2005 9:08 PM

Peace at last, peace at last! Thank God almighty...peace at last!

In the words of my man Rodney..."Can't we all just get along?!" *pleads*

ITWASALLADREAM

Friday, December 2, 2005 11:36 PM

And, people, I didn't say that crying was bad. It's funny to see all the various reactions to a couple of statements.

BTW, my daughter loves firefly, wants to catch all the re-runs on Sci-Fi and wants to buy the movie on DVD.

I told her a while back that I posted that she cried about the movie and she said, "It was sad!" while giving me a "of course I cried, Dummy!" look.

Select to view spoiler:

I didn't like the deaths

because I liked the characters so much but I do really love the writing and the artist that wrote Firefly and Serenity. I tip my hat to you, Joss.

RIVER6213

Friday, December 2, 2005 11:41 PM

Peace at last, peace at last! Thank God almighty...peace at last!

In the words of my man Rodney..."Can't we all just get along?!" *pleads*
----------------------------------------------------

No! we can't all get along....this is the Earth-That-Currently-Is...remember??