Serenity DVDs--Not the Safe Bet Everyone Thinks

POSTED BY: StakeTheLurk
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 1, 2005 04:13
VIEWED: 32653
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STAKETHELURK

Friday, October 21, 2005 4:19 PM

So, today Serenity drops to 871 theaters in the US and Canada. That leaves it out of reach of many Browncoats and most sizable audiences. Those who can should still go see the film; it’s holding strong in some local markets, especially the Pacific Northwest. Every penny helps and the longer we can keep it in at least some theaters, the more pennies come in. But despite that, the domestic box office is pretty much over. Things could still do well internationally--or the UK thing (yay UK Browncoats!) could turn out to be just a fluke. I’ll stress that our BDM hasn’t bombed, per se, but we’re not where we want to be when it comes to continuing the ‘verse.

(To correct a misconception I keep seeing, the decision on whether to continue the ‘verse (via sequels, series, etc) is not ultimately up to Joss. It is up to Universal. Joss can want to continue to the story, but he can’t do it without funding. Sure, he was able to push through Serenity with help from the Browncoats, but Uni’s decision to pay for the film was ultimately a financial one--which so far hasn’t panned out. Joss can be as persistent and persuasive as possible, but if the bean counters don’t think it will add up, nothing will happen.)

One mantra that’s helped us through this is of course, “This thing will kill on DVD.” It seems to make sense; after all, “Firefly” has been doing unbelievably well on DVD. But there are several major obstacles to DVD success I don’t think everyone is aware of.

Studios tend to be very tight-lipped about the sales of ancillary products (no doubt in an attempt to hide the amount of cash they’re raking in), and that makes it difficult for us to examine the numbers. Thus, no one really knows how many “Firefly” DVDs have been sold to this date. One figure that was tossed around before the movie came out was 500,000 sets sold. So let’s go with that. It has been mentioned as a very good figure--very good for TV. The box set sells for (rough average) $40 bucks. So, 500k sold = $20 million. But movie DVDs cost much less, usually around $20 when they first hit stores. So if every browncoat who bought a set of “Firefly” goes out and gets Serenity on DVD, that amounts to a grand total of $10 million. And $10 million in DVDs does not a sequel make. My utterly uninformed guess says we need to at least hit $20 million before we’ll even pique the studio’s interest, and $30-40 million before we’ll come close to that $80 million goal.

That means Serenity must outsell “Firefly.” By a factor of 3. Minimum.

And that, fellow browncoats, is a huge amount of DVDs. 1.5 million, minimum (2 million would be much better). If every browncoat in the US & Canada bought three copies of the DVD, we’d be okay--but they won’t. A few might be unaware of the plight we’re in. Of those who do know, some won’t be able to afford it. Others won’t do it on principle. And others were disappointed by the film and won’t bother to buy it at all when it comes out. Which leaves the rest of us. And while I’m sure we’ll do what we can to help the BDM, it may well not be enough.

I write this not to demoralize people, but rather to motivate them. We’ve got a window of several months between now and when the DVDs hit shelves. We must take advantage of this period to ensure strong DVD sales. Here’s some ideas I’ve had about how we can do that.

--Get more people to watch Serenity. Although it’s slipping out of theaters quickly, we need to make sure as many people as possible go to see it now. Not only will their money help the box office, but many (if not most) of them will then happily buy the DVD when it comes out.

--Convert like never before. We all know the fans will buy this DVD, so the easiest way to get big sales is to get more fans. If the BDM is no longer playing in a theater near you, “Firefly” is the best way to get ‘em hooked. Show the series to as many people as you can and encourage your fledgling browncoats to do the same with their circl

SPDRPARKER

Friday, October 21, 2005 4:37 PM

Have you factored in the rental idea?

Most rental houses, Blockbuster and Hollywood Video the largest, don't carry too many random television series, and I know the ones around here didn't carry Firefly.

But they WILL carry Serenity.

This will also get people to have a new viewing and or buy it. Also the money from the rental houses having it will contribute. Not sure how those work, necessarily, but it will be a boost comparitively to the Firefly DVDs.

This most likely won't be a saving grace, but it is a bonus to add on.

And how does Pay Per View work into these factors?

Then you have to consider how many people would have found Firefly just by rental. And consider that a movie will more likely always sell more than a television series. Due to both cost, and you have to consider that there will be people who enjoy Serenity who know nothing of the television show.

I still hope to do as much as possible. I'm still trying my best to get the word spread, and contributing numbers.

But I'm not too worried. It may not be guarenteed any time in the very near future, but I feel we'll get the continuation eventually.

Just need to be patient.

Corbitt
Just that gorram shiny

STAKETHELURK

Friday, October 21, 2005 4:51 PM

Quote:
Have you factored in the rental idea?

Rentals may help us, yes, but...

Movie sales and movie rentals are down this year by 25-30% (don't have specifics with me at the moment), while TV sales are up (not sure about rentals). Rental stores also tend to get lots of copies of top-grossing films, but only a few copies of other films--which means fewer people will even have the opportunity to even rent it. And of course, the studio gets a much smaller cut of rentals than it does from DVD sales, so I'm focusing on those.

Quote:
I still hope to do as much as possible. I'm still trying my best to get the word spread, and contributing numbers.

That what I hope people are doing. Because, we can't simply assume that DVD sales are going to be big. We have to make it so, and we've got only a limited amount of time to prepare. I'm no expert, but every expert I've heard has felt that getting the level of DVD sales (and rentals, etc…) necessary for a sequel is going to be very difficult. I just want everyone to follow your example and not just take DVD success for granted.

HJERMSTED

Friday, October 21, 2005 5:27 PM

Here are some factors to consider re: a Serenity sequel:

* A sequel won't happen any time soon (even if Universal were to greenlight it today). Joss has two motion pictures to write and direct... Wonder Woman and Goners. A Serenity sequel probably couldn't even go into production for another three years.

* The Firefly DVD set has been on the market for almost two years now. It will have been on the market for five years (Serenity for three years) by the time Joss could start working on a sequel.

Should the Firefly DVD set and the Serenity DVD keep selling at the even clip (established by Firefly) over the course of the next two years, who knows what Universal or Fox might do with the franchise?

Cash cows are not born over night!

If Wonder Woman pulls impressive box office numbers, Joss could be very much in demand. He may even find himself in a position to play hardball ("Sure, I'll do a movie for you, but first.." Serenity sequel, etc.)

If Goners scores for Universal, perhaps Joss won't even need to play hardball to convince them to do a Serenity sequel.

mattro

RONAN

Friday, October 21, 2005 5:38 PM

I don't think you can ignore the international market. I know the film has been doing very well here in Ireland and sci fi doesn't normally do very well at all. You've also got countries like Australia with a big population and a good possibility of fans.

There's also the merchandising - what there is; and there really could be more. I can't get the Serenity novelisation at the moment because Amazon in the UK have run out so I have to wait for another couple of weeks before it will get to me. Is that not a good sign?

I'm staying positive and with such a fanbase we are looking at a classic Trek situation of die-hard fans who will put themselves out there for the cause. Plus we have the internet at our disposal - little old me here in little old Ireland can make my point to the big boys in the US of A.

Positive thoughts...positive thoughts...

HOWARD

Friday, October 21, 2005 6:40 PM

The population of Australia in a land mass bigger
than Western Europe is only the size of The
Netherlands a tiny land-mass country.

Canada has a land-mass twice the size of the USA
with a population only half that of the UK and a
mere 1/10th of the population of the USA.

BARCLAY

Friday, October 21, 2005 6:51 PM

The fight for the US box office is over. We lost. If Serenity is still playing near you, do what you've done for the past 3 weeks, so it again. Bring friends. But the fact of the matter is, Serenity was just a blip on the US BO screens. We can play the blame game in the next 3 years before the sequel comes out, but there's still work to be done.

If you're in an international market, go see Serenity. Many times. With many friends. This is pretty standard at this point. The goal at this point it to get total gross above the base production costs ($39 mil). This way, secondary sales start to chip right into advertising expenses, and then profit.

Don't expect Universal to greenlight a sequel right away. Joss has other projects (Wonder Woman, Goners), and those are going to get done before Serenity 2 would anyways. This gives us an opportunity.

Firefly DVD sales have been steady, even 3 years after the show aired and two years after they came out. Guess what folks? Time to do the same thing for Serenity. It having a much nicer price than the $40 Firefly set should help you get some of your cheaper friends to pick it up. Keep at it. Even if a sequel isn't announced, cause, you know, the movie's just that good.

And have heart. I get a feeling Universal likes Joss. The fact he delivered Serenity ON TIME and ON BUDGET is huge! And they did greenlight Goners. Fight's not over (It never is).

"You are on the Global Frequency."
http://www.frequencysite.com
http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com

JAYNEANDVERA

Friday, October 21, 2005 7:03 PM

I just want to see more of the verse, but at the same time I can't wait until Im able to buy the DVD of "Serenity". I will be dancing like this guy ( www.ditty-o.com) when I return from the store with it.

STEVE580

Friday, October 21, 2005 7:57 PM

I'll be buying a dozen copies of Serenity, at least. Remember, it's coming out right before Christmas - which means no surprizes for anyone that recieves gifts from I.
-Steve

THELURKER

Friday, October 21, 2005 8:11 PM

Quote:
We lost.

We're known for that.

REGINAROADIE

Friday, October 21, 2005 9:26 PM

You're looking at DVD sales, but I think DVD RENTALS can also be a factor in determining SERENITY'S success.

Cases in point. The first AUSTIN POWERS was a small sized hit in theatres. It ended up doing phenominally well on video. That lead to the greenlighting of THE SPY WHO SHAGGED ME, which did more in it's opening weekend than the first movie's entire theatrical run. Same thing with THE BOURNE IDENTITY. Ended up being the #1 rental DVD of 2003, I think, and made way for the bigger hit of THE BOURNE SUPREMACY.

And recently, KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, which only made $47 million in it's theatrical run, is the #1 rental and seller, I think, with a 3 disc director's cut of the flick coming out soon.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
XANDER: (baby-talk) Who's a little fear demon?
C'mon, who's a lit-tle fear demon?
GILES: Don't taunt the fear demon.
XANDER: Why? Can he hurt me?
GILES: No, it's just… tacky.

ROBBS

Friday, October 21, 2005 9:55 PM

I agree with the comparisons to Bourne, etc. Chance for some momentum when it hits the rental phase, leading into possibly a second. But I'm more curious about what it would take to get it to the SciFi channel or FX or something. I know SciFi passed on it the first time around but this seems to fit well with Battlestar Galactica, SG1 & some of their other shows. Plus I think most of us would enjoy getting back to a serialized version of the show. That being said I have doubts about Universal (or whoever actually owns rights to future versions) giving up those rights to allow it to hit the small screen. Would be pretty sweet though!

You can't open the book of my life and jump in the middle. Like woman, I'm a mystery.

HANOVERFIST

Friday, October 21, 2005 10:06 PM

This is the problem I see: the movie is not that re-watchable

Now before you all jump down my throat, let me explain my viewpoint. I LOVE Firefly, and watch all of the episodes every few months or so, painful as that might be (Why only 12!).

But the probem with Serenity is that for myself it is just not a fun movie. Is it a good movie? Hell yeah! But it is not one that I would sit down to watch over, and over, and over.

Aside from the fact that as a fan it is difficult to watch two of my favorite characters die, it is just too much of a downer for it to be fun. I am reminded of what Simon said in Out of Gas: (paraphrasing) I always thought Serenity had a funerial sound to it. I come away from the movie just too depressed and bummed-out to call it enjoyable. Just because it is more of our BDHs isn't enough.

I have heard some compare this to Star Wars or in this thread Austin Powers. The big difference is that those movies are fun. They are not necessarily better (especially Austin Powers...yuck) but they are more fun. At the end of Star Wars you get to see this ragtag group of rebels deal a devastating blow to a (nearly) all-powerful galactic empire. (sound familiar?) But in Serenity, you just feel like you got your ribs kickid in...no fun. Realistic, maybe, but not fun.

That is why I fear that this movie will not have legs. Thus I really feel like Serenity was the last nail in Firefly's coffin.

REGINAROADIE

Friday, October 21, 2005 10:10 PM

I'm only mentioning AUSTIIN POWERS as a hopeful model of financial success. NOT as a parallel of quality.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
XANDER: (baby-talk) Who's a little fear demon?
C'mon, who's a lit-tle fear demon?
GILES: Don't taunt the fear demon.
XANDER: Why? Can he hurt me?
GILES: No, it's just… tacky.

STAKETHELURK

Friday, October 21, 2005 11:41 PM

The impression I’m getting from responses so far is that folks think I’m saying success* is impossible, that I’m a pessimist. That’s not exactly what I was going for. The purpose of this thread is to mobilize people, not to tell them a continuation of the ‘verse is impossible. I am optimistic about a continuation of the ‘verse, but I feel we need to be active now if we want to get it. If we just assume it’ll do well enough for us to get more and leave it at that, well, “that’s a long wait for a train don’t come.”

Quote:
Originally posted by Ronan:
I don't think you can ignore the international market. I know the film has been doing very well here in Ireland and sci fi doesn't normally do very well at all.

I’m not dismissing the international market, indeed I’m hoping it’ll contribute $20-30 million all told--since the UK box office usually makes up 10% of the international take and they've made over $3 million so far. But, I do note that the surprisingly high turnout in the UK may turn out to be a fortunate fluke (I don't have data on Ireland, just the UK). However, there’s nothing fans in the US & Canada can do about the international box office (besides urging international browncoats to do everything they can to help the film in their respective countries). What browncoats in the US & Canada can do is prep for the DVD release.

Quote:
Originally posted by ReginaRoadie:
You're looking at DVD sales, but I think DVD RENTALS can also be a factor in determining SERENITY'S success.

I’m not dismissing rentals--although they do produce less money for the studio than DVD sales (hence the emphasis on those). Worse, rentals are down this year and in response the rental shops are ordering 50% fewer copies of films that didn’t hit #1. That means less visibility and fewer rentals. What I am trying to do here is say that we can’t simply assume that Serenity will do well in rentals or sales. Most of us assumed the BDM would open at #1 with at least $15 million in the first three days ( http://fireflyfans.net/pollresults.asp?pid=21). We were wrong then. I don’t want us to be wrong now. I want us to do everything we can to make sure that DVD sales and rentals do meet our expectations. We need to be proactive about this, and we can take action now.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
Firefly DVD sales have been steady, even 3 years after the show aired and two years after they came out. Guess what folks? Time to do the same thing for Serenity….Should the Firefly DVD set and the Serenity DVD keep selling at the even clip (established by Firefly) over the course of the next two years, who knows what Universal or Fox might do with the franchise?

The problem is, movie DVDs are different from TV DVDs. Movie sales are down by 25% this year, a larger trend that could hurt us in the stores just like the general drop off of theater attendance hurt us at the box office. TV DVDs are measured on a different scale of success from movie DVDs--because TV DVDs are more expensive. If 20th Century Fox sells 500,000 “Firefly” DVDs, they will make $20 million. If Universal sells 500,000 Serenity DVDs, they will make $10 million. So, if we sell Serenity DVDs in the same numbers as “Firefly,” we will not make enough money to get any continuation.

If we all just smile, go about our business for the next few months, and then buy two copies of the DVDs when they come out, we will fail. If the Serenity DVD does just as well as the “Firefly” DVDs, we will fail. I don’t want us to fail, but the past has shown that when we get complacent and assume success, we get a horrible surprise. On the other hand, when we mobilize we can do the impossible. Let’s be mighty again, and do everything we can in the US & Canada to make sure the BDM is picked up by as many people as possible on DVD (be it rentals or sales). There is a huge mass of people out there who’ve never even heard of Serenity or “Firefly.” We can’t assume those folks will magically decide to buy or r

SIMONWHO

Friday, October 21, 2005 11:52 PM

I agree with the points above that Serenity will permeate the Firefly universe into the mainstream. It may not even be until it has been aired on network television that enough people will be properly 'aware' of the verse to want a sequel.

PHOEBE

Saturday, October 22, 2005 12:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HanoverFist:
This is the problem I see: the movie is not that re-watchable

Now before you all jump down my throat, let me explain my viewpoint. I LOVE Firefly, and watch all of the episodes every few months or so, painful as that might be (Why only 12!).

But the probem with Serenity is that for myself it is just not a fun movie. Is it a good movie? Hell yeah! But it is not one that I would sit down to watch over, and over, and over.

Aside from the fact that as a fan it is difficult to watch two of my favorite characters die, it is just too much of a downer for it to be fun. I am reminded of what Simon said in Out of Gas: (paraphrasing) I always thought Serenity had a funerial sound to it. I come away from the movie just too depressed and bummed-out to call it enjoyable. Just because it is more of our BDHs isn't enough.

I have heard some compare this to Star Wars or in this thread Austin Powers. The big difference is that those movies are fun. They are not necessarily better (especially Austin Powers...yuck) but they are more fun. At the end of Star Wars you get to see this ragtag group of rebels deal a devastating blow to a (nearly) all-powerful galactic empire. (sound familiar?) But in Serenity, you just feel like you got your ribs kickid in...no fun. Realistic, maybe, but not fun.

That is why I fear that this movie will not have legs. Thus I really feel like Serenity was the last nail in Firefly's coffin.

Just felt the need to point out that - I disagree. I think Serenity is the most re-watchable film I've ever seen. Personally I've seen it at least 15 times (obsessive? Sure, but I'm happy that way) and I know many UK browncoats who've been going to see it every day or every couple of days. And it never gets old. In fact, depending on the atmosphere and your mood it can be even more moving the 15th time around than the first. Certainly I had tears in my eyes more than once the last time I saw it. And I'm glad that I did. I'm glad that it made me sad, even after seeing it 15 times. That's true genius.

JOEMO

Saturday, October 22, 2005 12:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HanoverFist:

I have heard some compare this to Star Wars or in this thread Austin Powers. The big difference is that those movies are fun. They are not necessarily better (especially Austin Powers...yuck) but they are more fun. At the end of Star Wars you get to see this ragtag group of rebels deal a devastating blow to a (nearly) all-powerful galactic empire. (sound familiar?) But in Serenity, you just feel like you got your ribs kickid in...no fun. Realistic, maybe, but not fun.

I think your wrong. I think for any one of us that really knew these characters, yes it was a K. O. so see two characters die as they did. But to a new commer it does not affect them the same. I think we will see a boost in Firefly dvd sales and Serenity sales will be good.

I don't know if this will be enough for a second movie. But here is something to think about. I think we all agree that any second movie will be a long time comming. To dump on top of that, two three years down the road will Joss be able to wrangle up the crew again? They will not just sit on their thumbs and wait. Alan Tudyk is already becoming a star on Broadway.... The only chance now may be to go back to t.v.

TINFOIL

Saturday, October 22, 2005 12:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by joemo:

I think we all agree that any second movie will be a long time comming. To dump on top of that, two three years down the road will Joss be able to wrangle up the crew again? They will not just sit on their thumbs and wait. Alan Tudyk is already becoming a star on Broadway.... The only chance now may be to go back to t.v.

And here is where my greatest concern comes in. What happens if the crew or even Joss doesn't want to make another one? If the movie would have made 100+ million dollars, it would have been a LOT more likely that everyone would have been on-board because of the money involved. A labor of love doesn't pay the tax man, if you know what I'm saying (unless you're a companion, but let's not get side tracked). I mean, I'm going to spread Firefly/Serenity around to everyone I can, but it's not in the hopes of getting another movie/show... And it shouldn't be for that, ever. Spread it around because you want other people to experience the incredible fun of this show.

As cold as it might sound, I'm to the point where Firefly is dead outside of its fan base. I plan on buying five copies of the movie for Christmas (Best friend, other best friend, co-worker, brother, and myself), but I'm buying them for the right reasons. I want everyone to enjoy the show because it's good. I'm happy to have this wonderful setting for Fan Fiction/Films/Music. That's far more then I have for my Futurama love.

Long story short, let's enjoy what we have. We've done the impossible by getting a failed TV show to the big screen and that makes us mighty... Now we should spread the joy and STAY FANS not for the greedy reasons of getting more shows, but for the right reasons of sharing our passion.

SHINY

Saturday, October 22, 2005 2:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HanoverFist:
This is the problem I see: the movie is not that re-watchable.

:: wonders how he's managed to see a not-very-re-watchable film twelve times already ::

---

Serenity is coming. 9/30/05.

RONAN

Saturday, October 22, 2005 12:28 PM

On the re-watchability of Serenity, I think there is a point. Yes it is indeed a good strong film. But it is a lot darker than many of the episodes.

And with where we are left at the end of the film we all know that whatever happens re a sequel or tv series in the future we know that things will never be the same again.

So, are we looking for a continuation of Firefly as it was - which is now not possible because of Serenity's storyline.

Or, do we want to see where it can be taken and if it can be taken any further. I know I still have questions and I really would like to hear and see some more.

Will I re-watch Serenity - you bet but that's because I like that darkness and as a writer my brain is thinking storylines for what could happen next and how and why certain things happened in the film.

I'm still going to stay positive. I will continue to hope that there is a chance...

HANOVERFIST

Saturday, October 22, 2005 2:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
Quote:
Originally posted by HanoverFist:
This is the problem I see: the movie is not that re-watchable.

:: wonders how he's managed to see a not-very-re-watchable film twelve times already ::

---

Serenity is coming. 9/30/05.

Now let's be realistic. You have to know that watching a movie 12+ times in a theater in three weeks time is not normal. I do not mean to say that YOU are abnormal, but you have to admit your love of Serenity is abnormal. I know my love for Firefly is abnormal.

My point is that I do not believe that in terms of mass appeal generating the necessary revenue stream for Universal, Serenity is not going to make it. As I said Serenity is a good movie, but I do not think it was good enough follow-up to Firefly-which was GREAT.

I also want to say that I fully plan on buying the DVD the day it comes out. I still like the movie quite a bit, and plan on giving a few Serenity gifts for X-mas as well. But I do think it is correct to say that Firefly is essentially dead. It is just a damn bitter pill to swallow.

AFKAMM

Saturday, October 22, 2005 6:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HanoverFist:
I LOVE Firefly, and watch all of the episodes every few months or so, painful as that might be (Why only 12!).

You miss counted. There are 14 episodes, 15 if you count the pilot as being 2.

Only 12 were shown on Fox before the show was cancelled, though from what I've read elsewhere, Sci-Fi are now showing Firefly so all 14 can be seen there.... or you could buy the DVD boxset.

--
Marc :)

WHOISRIVER

Saturday, October 22, 2005 7:03 PM

Quote:
Most rental houses, Blockbuster and Hollywood Video the largest, don't carry too many random television series, and I know the ones around here didn't carry Firefly.

But they WILL carry Serenity.

I hate to bring (yet more!) bad news, but just wanted to say Blockbuster are in a contract dispute with Universal Home Video at the moment, and they planning to drop all Universal titles in December (when the DVD will likely appear) if the contract disbute isn't sorted.

BRIONJAEGER

Saturday, October 22, 2005 7:12 PM

Greetings&Felecitations:

I think what will make the movie see-able over and over is the fact that despite loosing two main characters, it is River who lifts the ship from the dock and up into space. When you look at her character going from almost totally institutional to piloting a starship, there has to be something there... There are too many story possibilities to go on with.
Things could be worse for us, as someone said, "We've done the impossible with a series canceled midway through the first season and brought it to the big screen and that makes us mighty." It does, we could have ended up with a Farscape mini series instead on some off night on Fox. Maybe they will re-look the series idea, or move the seqeul up.
The DVD of the movie will sell well just because it was a darn good movie and people will be expecting to see more than what was just up on the big screen. I've seen it twice in theatre and plan on giving it as a gift a couple of times. Serenity will at the least make a modest profit. Remember in the USA, there was Katrina and Rita plus the awful spike in gas prices. Nothing did as well as it could have done.
The Wonder Woman movie and Goner are news to me, have no idea of the cast or story line (beyond the WW comic)but can only hope that they add to Josh's ability to get a movie he wants made into production.
Angmar/LNA

Zoe, "Once you've been in Serenity, how could you ever leave?"

RABBIT2

Saturday, October 22, 2005 7:51 PM

Just what are the figures and how do they compare with other movies out at the moment.
Is there any hard data or is everyone just guestimating?
If Universal realy expected Serenity to be a blockbuster they would have released it back in July or August. I think they probably see it as a cult movie thats going to make them a small profit in the short term but do much better in the long run with the DVD sales and TV rights.
So the real question is, has it made more than its production costs? If it has then a sequel is a good prospect. A new TV series is unlikely due to the complex rights situation with Fox retaining the TV rights to Firefly and Universal having the movie ones for Serenity.

JESSE

Saturday, October 22, 2005 8:26 PM

I loved Serenity, so I watched Firefly and read the comics - which I also loved! But I don't think a continuation of the story on TV or Film is very likely.

You guys assume that Joss and the cast even wants to continue Serenity now. I work in the entertainment industry directly with people like Joss all of the time. The bottom line is that, while it is a critically acclaimed series and film, moving forward with trying to continue the story now would only hurt Joss's career. It just hasn't made enough money (and probably won't) to warrant any continuation - period. The entertainment industry is all about making money. Regardless off how good *we* know this universe is, it is irrelevant. They would sell cow dung to us if it were profitable. Joss knows this, and he would never put his career on the line or risk damaging his credibility to push one of his failed ideas even if he personally loved it. It worked with Serenity, because the results could have gone either way. I doubt it will work again. Joss will move on with bigger and better ventures that will make much more money. The cast will move on and become larger stars then they are now. The risk factor (in terms of opportunity loss and niche market) will continue to grow as everyone involved with this series moves on with their lives and careers. Of course Joss and company will never tell *us* that, because we are the fans - and if they don't have fans, there is no money to be made. Emotion aside, that's what it comes down to.

TALRICH

Saturday, October 22, 2005 8:31 PM

I just think the whole "Serentiy failed at the box office" statements are a bit odd.

When I hear this sort of chatter, I recall hearing Kevin Smith (director of Clerks, Mallrats, Chasing Amy, Dogma, Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back, & Jersey Girl) speak at the University of Rhode Island. An audience member asked Kevin why Mirimax kept letting him make movies, to which he had a pretty simple response. "I haven't lost them money".

Just like Warren Buffet (among the richest people in the US) is oft quoted, "Rule number one, never lose money. Rule number two, never forget rule number one." As I see it, that's how studio executives need to think.

For Serentity to clear the bar, it doesn't have to be a blockbuster, but it can't lose money. With domestic, international, DVD, merchandise, and TV rights, it isn't a flop, and that's what counts.

Ancedotal to be sure, but I've seen the viral marketing first hand. Before the movie release, I wasn't a fan. A month later, and not just am I a convert, but I've already recruited others eager to buy the DVD.

-Talrich

STAKETHELURK

Saturday, October 22, 2005 9:10 PM

Quote:
For Serentity to clear the bar, it doesn't have to be a blockbuster, but it can't lose money. With domestic, international, DVD, merchandise, and TV rights, it isn't a flop, and that's what counts.

I agree, Serenity will turn a profit. That is not what this thread is about, and that is not what I mean when I talk about "failure." The question is not whether the BDM will make a profit, but whether it will make enough for Universal to greenlight a sequel (or other continuation of the verse). There are many movies out there which made a modest profit, but never got follow ups. Uni needs to believe that it's worthwhile financially to continue the 'verse, and simply turning a profit won't cut it. We have to do better than just break even if we want more.

Quote:
Ancedotal to be sure, but I've seen the viral marketing first hand. Before the movie release, I wasn't a fan. A month later, and not just am I a convert, but I've already recruited others eager to buy the DVD.

That's what I'm talking about! I want people to do exactly what you've done, make more recruits for the DVD. If we want more, we will need to sell a huge amount of DVDs. To sell that many, we can't just sit around talking about how *sure* we are that the BDM will do well on DVD, we need to get out there and keep spreading the word and posting guerrilla marketing. We need to make sure we get high DVD sales by spreading the word of "Firefly" and Serenity to the many, many people who've never heard of it before and wouldn't otherwise think of buying or renting the film. We need to make your anecdote the norm, Talrich.

EMBERS

Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:
Quote:
Most rental houses, Blockbuster and Hollywood Video the largest, don't carry too many random television series, and I know the ones around here didn't carry Firefly.

But they WILL carry Serenity.

I hate to bring (yet more!) bad news, but just wanted to say Blockbuster are in a contract dispute with Universal Home Video at the moment, and they planning to drop all Universal titles in December (when the DVD will likely appear) if the contract disbute isn't sorted.

Frankly, if Blockbuster is threatening that, it is an empty threat...
Blockbuster is already fighting hard to avoid losing customers to netflix (who DO carry TV shows, and foreign films, and independent films that most rental places don't bother to stock)
if the public finds that they cannot rent movies they want to see from Blockbuster, then they will stop going to Blockbuster...

I also wanted to point out that there are millions of people in the US who have stopped going out to the movies (Serenity it not doing worse than other films this Fall, it is doing better than most of them),

we should find a lot of new people renting Serenity when it comes out,
AND I hope they like it well enough to buy it, and get Firefly too...

Of course we need to encourage people we know to rent it, but the reason DVD sales are such a big business is because people do rent them, and buy them, who won't go out to see the movie in theaters.

(okay, so maybe I'm in total denial...but I plan to stay here...

)

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse!

EMBERS

Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jesse:

You guys assume that Joss and the cast even wants to continue Serenity now.

We assume that because Joss Whedon has said, many times and recently that he has already started writing the sequels in his head...
and because Nathan & Gina & Summer have all said that they are VERY much wanting to do sequals
(I am assuming that Morena & Jewel feel the same, but I haven't heard direct quotes)....
Adam Baldwin said at a convention recently that he would do sequals for film, and then took it back and said that no...he would be happy to do it on TV again too, he loves his character and Joss' writing.

I expect that for the next couple of years we will have to be satisfied with more comics, but I do think that in a few years,
when 'Serenity' has earned a little money...and a larger following, we can expect to get a sequal.
Not immediately, but eventually.

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse!

GATORMAN

Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:24 AM

Truth be told, I was not someone who saw serenity and really didn't pay attention to it until it ran on sci fi. Now I am hooked. The best thing that can happen to firefly is that sci fi takes a chance on it much the same way they did Stargate and BSG.

Figure that a program like Firefly/serenity is a perfect fit for Sci fi because it can be done fairly low budget and the DVD sales for each season is where the real money can be made.

A sequel is a possibility, but if SCi fi wanted to expand programming past friday nights taking an idea like firefly and perhaps something in the star trek universe back to back could fill another night of programming.

CATO

Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:41 AM

Well folks, I just returned from a theatrical showing of Serenity. I had read several positive reviews on PowerLine blog, InstaPundit and other places that pseudo Libertarians like me hang out on the web.

Since my daughter is home from college on fall break, she, my wife and younger daughter have gorged on Buffy mylar all week. At dinner last night I passingly mentioned I had read these reviews of Joss's film, my wife said she had seen the first Firefly but lost it when Fox moved it all over - and so I took them this afternoon before they missed the opportunity.

Although at $6 a ticket the film generated only $180 at the Matinee, the two evening shows on the three screens in St. Louis Friday were Sold-Out, and tonight's evening screenings Pre-sold, too.

FWIW, I am certain someone in my family will buy the DVD for someone for XMAS (and probably Firefly, too); my wife has already IM'ed my son and he and a large group of friends at college plan to go this evening in Wooster, OH (or Canton or Cleveland, if necessary); my older daughter, who viewed it with me this afternoon, has already made some plans to go to Indianapolis next weekend (if it is still showing) with some college friends; and I emailed my sister, who is a Prof. at St. Lawrence to get over to Montreal before it leaves.

So do not despair yet. One chance comment by a grumpy old guy in St. Louis who believes he was born a century too late (anti-stateist) may have generated a pretty decent ripple across the Midwest.

BTW, we are still talking about the 'verse, and deconstructiing the film - what a great dinner!!

Cato

Do you own yourself?

EVANS

Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:47 AM

Regarding excessive media purchases...

I am a fan of The Billy Nayer Show. I have bought at least ten copies of "The American Astronaut" DVD; at least seven copies of "The Early Years" DVD; at least five copies of each of the seven audio CDs available.

I cannot possibly be the only person who buys multiple copies of stuff.

Oh yeah: three copies of the Firefly series DVDs, plus donations to "the cause."

Embarrassed confession: I have the "Serenity" VCD download.

m.
------------------------------------------------
"But ... not boring, like she made it sound." Wash, in ARIEL
"None of it means a damn thing." Mal, in OBJECTS IN SPACE

GROOSALUGG

Sunday, October 23, 2005 3:07 AM

I was under the impression that Joss and the cast were signed on for a trilogy, if two additional movies were greenlighted. So wouldn't that mean they're all contractually obligated to do one or two more, if the studio picked up the option(s)?

MEANGOLDFISH

Sunday, October 23, 2005 3:35 AM

it seems that since lord of the rings, everyone thinks everything is a trilogy.

WHOISRIVER

Sunday, October 23, 2005 3:36 AM

All are signed for sequels, should the studio want them.

Embers - You might consider it an empty threat, but Blockbuster and WB contract negoiations fell down two years ago, and all WB films (including The Matrix) disappered from Blockbuster as a result. It happens. There's a very real threat Serenity won't launch at Blockbuster because of this.

BIZZRAT

Sunday, October 23, 2005 6:40 AM

Hanoverfist, I think the EXACT OPPOSITE. I have seen it 7 timed, 7th just as good as the 1st. NEVER gets old!

You Cant Stop The Signal

HEYMITCH

Sunday, October 23, 2005 6:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HanoverFist:
This is the problem I see: the movie is not that re-watchable

I have to say that I found Serenity to be every bit as enjoyable and as re-watchable as the series. I've seen the movie twelve times so far. Granted, the desire to see the film succeed is partly responsible for that. However, my twelve most enjoyable moviegoing experiences of the year were my twelve viewings of Serenity (and I've seen a couple of really good films this year--they just didn't move me the way Serenity did).

Despite what people have said about consequences to some of the characters, I wouldn't change a frame of this movie. It grabbed me from the very first frame and kept me captivated until the closing credits, and even though I can now pretty much read the lines along with the actors if I cared to, it's still a damn fun movie to watch.

I've taken a bunch of people to this film, and not a one of them has been disappointed.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

RECHELON

Sunday, October 23, 2005 6:57 AM

"especially the Pacific Northwest"

I just need to say, that one line makes me so freakin' proud.

Just that line.

Makes me feel like it was all worth it.

Damn.

I campaigned in Portland so hard for Firefly. So hard.

And then to see the BDM crash so hard even as I bought dozens of tickets... It's been painful. Bendis never took a symbolic bullet beside me, but I certainly wasted a few disbelieving minutes watching our angels abandon us in the Box Office results.

I don't know when I'm going to work up the energy to go converting again (I'd almost bagged a hundred), but I know that taking five minutes aside to fork over my hard-earned cash for Serenity in December ought to be almost cathartic.

In a lot of folks minds, TV show DVDs are one thing. Movies are another. $40>>$20. Now, I'm not sayin' we should count on anything. Not sayin' we should just expect things to take care of themselves. That's a long wait for a train don't come.

But maybe we can afford to take a few weeks off from the stress. Lord knows even with the best of luck it's still gonna be another long drought.

WAXWING6

Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:43 PM

"...not a fun movie to watch."????????????

I've seen it twice and loved it better the second time. The are so many layers, you can't see everything in one viewing.

SHINYMOM

Sunday, October 23, 2005 7:03 PM

Six of us went to see Serenity last night. The theater was packed!! All of us had seen it at least once, some four times, and I'd seen it six times. It just gets better and better. I kept sneaking peaks at the people down the row from me. They were enthralled. People reacted to the humor, the angst, and the triumphs appropriately. There were people in the audience who had never seen it because there was a huge gasp in the crowd when Wash was killed.

When it was over, I heard comments like, "Man, that was great!" and "I told you you'd love it." A number of people stayed through the credits.

I live in Fresno, CA where there has never, to my knowledge, been any kind of Browncoat activity. When we went the first time, I took a friend of my son and his girlfriend who had never seen Firefly. Didn't know a thing about it. She loved it! She in turn took her dad who loved it, too. And then she told her best friend who went to see it and then bought the Firefly DVD set. I think this is going to continue as long as it's in theaters anywhere. And then when ithe DVD comes out a lot of people will buy it or get it for Christmas and the conversions will continue.

So keep going to see it, buy multiple DVD's of Serenity when it comes out, buy a Firefly boxed set to lend out. Keep posting, download podcasts, buy anything Firefly or Serenity that's available.

Let's continue doing the impossible.

"Chow's in ten...no need to dress."

XEPHERYS

Sunday, October 23, 2005 7:26 PM

Well, the rental options can be helped by customer suggestions as well. I had never seen Firefly before watchnig Serenity at the theatres. After that, I had an insatiable desire to see the series. Best Buy and Fry's near me (Tempe, AZ) had a few copies that sold out quickly, and had a difficult time getting more. Also, local video rental outlets did not carry the series. I've sent a few suggestions in (most notably to Blockbuster) regarding the benefits of carrying Firefly (people in my ship, who are new to the 'verse and want BADLY to see it and people who will be renting it in December, and will want to see the series afterwards). As a side note, I ended up buying the set from Amazon. Only $32 to boot!

Also note, to whomever was putting together numbers above, that total sales figures do not look at retail values of the DVDs, but rather wholesale numbers (what the studios actually make). This is unlike movie tickets, which are estimated by total tickets sold with a ticket average cost in most markets (meaning that adult tickets at $8 and student tickets at $6 probably both get tallied at $8 or $7.50 or some such number).

LOVOK

Sunday, October 23, 2005 9:51 PM

To those who think Serenity is too painful to watch because some main characters die: you have not seen enough Buffy! Go watch Season 5's "The Body" and then tell me Serenity is too painful to watch again, lol. :)

To me, Serenity represents the most fun I've had at the theater in a very, very long time. It's a hell of a good time with some great dramatic scenes in it to boot.

EBANZAI

Monday, October 24, 2005 1:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
That means Serenity must outsell “Firefly.” By a factor of 3. Minimum.

And that, fellow browncoats, is a huge amount of DVDs. 1.5 million, minimum (2 million would be much better).

My own guesstimates put the DVD sales at 1.2mil copies - I think that's a very attainable number.

And there's a lot of revenue you're not considering:

- US TV syndication deals (my guess: 90% of $8mil)

- international TV syndication (my guess: 90% of $5.3mil)

- US home video rentals (my guess: 50% of $15mil)

- international home video sales (my guess: 67% of $8mil).

If you look at my original profit/loss post, my numbers do still show Serenity coming in with a net loss, but it's close enough that over time it'll creep its way to profitability.

Quote:
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
For some additional (slightly different) information about DVD sales and other financial matters, check out Ebanzai’s thread on how to guesstimate Serenity’s profit/loss: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14021

Thanks for the reference!

NDGEEK

Monday, October 24, 2005 5:14 AM

The other issue is that Universal only gets a small percentage of the profits after opening weekend. Opening weekend they get 100% of the box office take, but it ramps slowly down from there.

See: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/movie-distribution4.htm

I guess a dollar toward a cause is still a dollar, but its certainly weaker than the opening few weeks.

--Chris

TULLYANO7

Monday, October 24, 2005 7:43 AM

The Firefly DVD Set had sold 250,000 a couple of months after its release which was about 2 years ago in the US alone.

It has been among the top selling DVDs at Amazon, DeepDiscount DVD and many other online stores for about the last year, and it has been released overseas and is on the top lists of JBHifionline and EZYDVD a full 1 year after its release. The Australian distributer has even run out of stock and has had to import more.

So Please stop saying the DVD set has only sold around 250-500. It would have easily sold at the very minimum 1.5-2 million copies.

EBANZAI

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 12:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ndgeek:
The other issue is that Universal only gets a small percentage of the profits after opening weekend. Opening weekend they get 100% of the box office take, but it ramps slowly down from there.

See: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/movie-distribution4.htm

That's interesting. I haven't heard that before. I get the feeling that the numbers used in that article were just an example and not meant to necessarily reflect real distribution deals.

Makes it even harder to guesstimate profitability.

I would like confirmation on this though - I hesitate to trust one single site for info and it's odd that I haven't heard this discussed by industry watchers before.

EBANZAI

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 12:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by tullyano7:
It has been among the top selling DVDs at Amazon, DeepDiscount DVD and many other online stores for about the last year, and it has been released overseas and is on the top lists of JBHifionline and EZYDVD a full 1 year after its release. The Australian distributer has even run out of stock and has had to import more.

So Please stop saying the DVD set has only sold around 250-500. It would have easily sold at the very minimum 1.5-2 million copies.

One thing to be careful about the amazon top seller list - I think it's recalculated every day (or who knows, every hour?). So naturally the Firefly DVDs would get a nice spike with Serenity's release. But that doesn't mean it's amazon's nth-best selling DVD ever.

I do agree though, the Firefly DVD set does seem to be a strong seller. I wish distributors were more forthcoming about their DVD sales figures.

NDGEEK

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:04 AM

Alright I found another site:

http://www.iceco.com/information.htm

It may not be 100%, but its pretty high the first weekend.

--Chris

BRUISERSMOM

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:41 AM

If you buy an extra copy of the DVD but don't want to keep it, you can donate it to your local library. That way, people can check it out who didn't watch the movie in the theater and maybe they'll go out and buy a copy if they like the movie.

"You can keep a dog; but it is the cat who keeps people, because cats find humans useful domestic animals."--George Mikes

R1Z

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:21 AM

Here's a way to boost Serenity DVD sales with public money: Go to your local public library, and fill out a request form asking them to add Serenity to their DVD collection. You can fill the form out for/at each branch, and you can fill them out before the DVD is released. Most libraries take patron requests very seriously. Library sales will make Universal their profit, and I, among others, buy DVDs for my personal collection after seeing library and rental copies. You can recruit people to our 'verse that you've never met.

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

AIM2MISBEHAVE

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 4:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Robbs:
... But I'm more curious about what it would take to get it to the SciFi channel or FX or something. I know SciFi passed on it the first time around but this seems to fit well with Battlestar Galactica, SG1 & some of their other shows. Plus I think most of us would enjoy getting back to a serialized version of the show. That being said I have doubts about Universal (or whoever actually owns rights to future versions) giving up those rights to allow it to hit the small screen. Would be pretty sweet though!

Loved Firefly and Serenity, but I too would prefer seeing the series go back to TV -- if only to get back the great multi-cast reparte and character nuances that can't be addressed fully in film. THIS is what made me love FF and then go see the BDM. I'm not sure how Fox figures in with the FF rights either, but unless their ownership has changed recently -- Universal Studios owns USA Cable Network which owns SciFi Channel ... which MAY bode well for "Serenity: The Series" if Josh & crew are up for it.

Regardless, keep recuiting everyone you can to see/buy the BDM and FF. Dare to believe in miracles.

YORG

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:13 AM

You know what REALLY needs to be done?

Get FOX or UPN or whoever, strap them down in a comfy seat and make them watch the entire firefly series.

If they don't love the series, then you shoot them. Ok, the shooting part is a joke . . . mostly.

Here's why the dvds/rentals are going to really make Firefly a hit. I hadn't heard of Firefly before the Serenity movie. Even though the preview looked somewhat lame, I was interested enough to see it as there really hasn't been a decent space movie in a looooong time.

So I watched it and liked it quite a bit. The characters really drew me in. So I searched for more and found Firefly. Bought the series and watched all the episodes in 2 days time.

I think that many people didn't bother to see it because:

1. What the hell is this all about?

2. Doesn't seem worth it to pay to see it in theatres.

3. Didn't play at a theatre near them/got pulled early.

So there will be a huge amount of first time viewers watching Serenity in a few months when it comes out to rent/buy. Out of these people, I can guarantee that a large portion of them will be so interested in the movie that they will look into Firefly. The Firefly series will skyrocket again after the dvd release.

Fingers crossed.

THOLO

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:38 AM

I feel like the movie and TV companys understand that all movie and DVD sale are down across the board, and take that into consideration. It makes no difference what movie it is. Movies like DOOM that compaired to Serenity are just stupid, but for some reason I have a gut feeling that there will be a DOOM 2 before a Serenity 2. I feel like someone at FOX is on crack(maybe Lucas had something to do with it).
Heck how many of you liked Alien Vs Predator? It has crapy reviews(C) and it made 79mil, and Serenity(A) has great reviews and is at 25mil, hmmm.( I guess AVP had a bigger fan base)

I am new to Firefly and Serenity, but I have been hooked since I saw the BDM. I love the verse and think it was everything the new Star Wars movies werent. I rented the Firefly DVD set and I am on the lookout for a copy at my local store to buy one, and I will buy the Serenity DVD as well.

But if FoxTV puts out crap(how many more seasons of the simpsons can will have, give it a rest! along wiht crazy Fox reality tv, dumb let it go) and kills Firefly, something does not add up. Most of the people I talk to never knew the movie was out. Universal didnt market the movie very well, I didnt see a tv ad every time I watched TV like I did for DOOM(or any other movie).

I think we browncoats need to send letters or email the hell out of SciFi and beg them to take up a new Firefly series. I mean lets face it Stargate was a one bigtime movie and it was not all that, but it had a hell of a fan base, and still does, look at all the DVD sets for sell.

I dont see a Serenity 2 anytime soon and to be honest I dont want one right now, look at Star Trek, every 3 years they made a movie, and then what retirement. I feel like browncoats would be much happier with 6-7 seasons of Firefly 2 tv series, than they would with, 3 movies every 10 years. I mean come on, many more chapters of our favorite crew on tv then in movies. Maybe after 6-7 seasons of Firefly 2 on SciFi then it will have a hell of a bigger fan base and then a new movie will kick ass at the box office.

This is just my opinon take or leave it, hehe
Thanks

STAKETHELURK

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 6:14 AM

I just updated my list of things you can do to boost the DVD sales:

--Spread the River Tam Sessions. (I can't believe I forgot this.) It's debatable as to whether the online viral marketing scheme had enough time to boost ticket sales, but what *isn't* debatable is that we have several extra months to build up some viral steam. Spread the vids to as many folks as you (politely) can. The chief website for this is www.session416.com, where you can download every clip.

Quote:
Originally posted by BruisersMom:
If you buy an extra copy of the DVD but don't want to keep it, you can donate it to your local library. That way, people can check it out who didn't watch the movie in the theater and maybe they'll go out and buy a copy if they like the movie.

That’s a good idea BruisersMom, I was going to recommend it myself when we got closer to the actual release. Donating stuff to libraries is always good in general and as you point out, it spreads word of the ‘verse to folks who might otherwise never have heard it. There is actually a systematic campaign to get Whedon’s three shows on library shelves and in other places where the public can access them. It’s called the Whedonverse Multimedia Project and can be found at www.whedonverse.org. Check them out, they are highly regarded for their efforts.

MINEISANEVILLAUGH

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:43 PM

I've been reading up on what box office means to studios. Turns out even blockbusters rarely make good profit in the theater. For example, studio spends $100m making and $50m marketing (typical marketing number, not the crappy $10 Serenity got). Then, movie grosses $250m in the theaters - sounds great. but the studio only gets back $125m - 25m less than they spent. As it happens most studios only make about 20% of their profits off theater box office. 80% is made in merchandising - that means DVD sales, movie soundtrack CD, promotional items, novelizations, rentals, sales to TV, pay-per-view.

Additionally, movies showing in little over 2,000 theaters in the widest distribution do not become box office blockbusters. While it would have been nice to blow that expectation out of the water - we continue to make $$ in the US and are doing very well abroad. We should keep it up - but in long the run it will be the post-theater $$ that will determine the eventual fate of this potential franchise. That means - the Serenity DVD is a fine gift for all holidays and special events (and, note, Universal does not get one dime from Firefly). So, while I would not discourage anyone from buying this very fine series - if you are trying to support this rebirth by purchasing for friends or others - you would want to use your $$ for the movie DVD or for any other Serenity related merchanise that catches your eye.

KINGMATTRESS

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:33 PM

Any way you cut it, there are still many possibilities and opportunities for a sequel. I'm not worried.

We shall rule over this land, and we shall call it... This Land.

AERYLONBLACKWOLF

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 6:14 PM

First let me say that the show and movie both kick major booty---however, I cannot see buying multiple copies of the series. Its a great show, but I cannot afford to purchase 7 or more copies. The movie is different however, my wife and I and our roommate and my parents and 21 yr old little brother all went to the theatre to see it.

There is one thing no one here has mentioned for ideas that I've noticed thus far--but if I'm wrong, let me know.

What about Bit Torrent? Limewire, etc...? I know your not supposed to download movies as it is stealing and what not, but its already on there. Sooo thats another reason why DVD sales are down across the board. Internet downloading being the hottest thing nowadays is a chance for real exposure. There's conventions too that can be done, if they aren't already. As I am new to this show and such, I'm not hip to whats going on ---yet.

Syndication should also help, but for that to happen, Sci-fi would have to repeat the show like they do SG-1 and Atlantis. SG-1 every day at 6pm my time, then why not FF at 5? or at 7? Each show could be shown with outtakes, deleted scenes, etc. Advertise hugely on other channels like USA, UPN, and FOX. Stay away from the big three (ABC, NBC, CBS, ETC.) Saturate the media with it with interviews on FOX NEWS, CNN, etc. This would mean Joss and cast and crew doing them. Before Serenity came out I watched a FOX NEWS broadcast with their movie guy--he hated the movie, but loved the come-back story. He shot it full of holes on the air, but the answer to that is to do the shows on the CABLE news, to help get the word out.

Another way would be to make sizable donations to Hurricane victims, that alone would get Joss on the news. Its a two-fold thing, and its real life, so in order to get something done, you have to be noticed. Getting noticed is harder nowadays then it used to be. The money would help the victims, and it would get Joss the audience he needs. Perhaps a Shelter or Rec Center called Serenity? (Not wishful thinking I hope.) I know this sounds bad, but logic dictates that one must make waves in order to really get anywhere in life.

Another way, would be to get more sites up on the net and advertise them at the end of each show like SG-1 and Atlantis does. THe original Showtime website for SG-1 is mostly responsible for its huge success.

Another way would be to show up on Shows like the O'Reilly Factor, Hannity and Colmes, Dayside, etc on FOX NEWS. Print fliers, and put them up in little known mom & pop video stores not Blockbuster or Hollywood Video. For those bigwigs and NETFLIX, you'd have to pester the management until they carried the TV show. As we all know they'll have Serenity.

If the show gets picked up, problem solved. If not, then keep going till it does. The idea of having novels is a good one. You can do so much more with that Universe, that ideas should be pratically unending--( ya right---no writer's block here please.)(They could have a set series based on the TV and Movie Characters, and a set series based on the Alliance, or other ships/smugglers/pirates, etc. Or Joss could take a Matrix-like approach: MASS DISTRIBUTION and Simulateous Releases of the movie on DVD or special edition DVD's for the show at the same time a video game would be launched, and have each item advertise the latter item, so u get equal exposure. Then you use places like Gamestop, Walmart, K mart, to boost your sales.

Or a website can be put up that deals only in selling FF merchandise, but not just any merch---stuff from the movie and show so that the competiont cannot compete with items Joss and his cast and crew have access to, no one else does--that would be an interesting way to make money and to get exposure as well. Advertise on Amazon.com, so if people go there to buy the TV show/movie, advertise for the video game, novels, and mementos, etc.

There are limitless ways to get exposed to a broader audience. Japan would be a hot place for Serenity as well. Maybe an Anime based on the show and advertise the TV show/movie/novels/g

HARSHCRITIC

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:28 PM

I think there is still some hope yet, especially if it is released before Christmas. I'll buy it as gifts for family members. Also, some movies are not discovered until they are released on video/dvd. The Shawshank Redemption bombed at the theater but later had much success on video and was nominated for several academy awards.

KRYTEN3

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:26 AM

Quote:
Now let's be realistic. You have to know that watching a movie 12+ times in a theater in three weeks time is not normal. I do not mean to say that YOU are abnormal, but you have to admit your love of Serenity is abnormal. I know my love for Firefly is abnormal.

My point is that I do not believe that in terms of mass appeal generating the necessary revenue stream for Universal, Serenity is not going to make it. As I said Serenity is a good movie, but I do not think it was good enough follow-up to Firefly-which was GREAT.

The thing is, that even newbies to the 'verse are keen to go and see this movie multiple times. I have seen it personally with a whole bunch of my contemporaries... It hasn't just got Browncoat appeal - the movie is creating Firefly fans just as much as the other way 'round.

So take heart. All is NOT lost. The audience is growing and it will grow MUCH MUCH larger come DVD release. There are people who just refuse to pay money to go see a movie they've heard is good if it doesn't have Arnie or Brad or Julia in it.

All is so far from lost it is actually funny.

PATTYOBRIAN

Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HanoverFist:
This is the problem I see: the movie is not that re-watchable

I disagree, as well. Though I've only seen Serenity six times, each time is a new experience. Though I know what's going to happen, each time I discover new subtleties. That's the draw to the Verse. That's the beauty and magic that Joss has created within each and every Browncoat. This our BDFamliy. It's been a week since I've seen the BDM and it's no longer in the theaters my way. So now I have to wait. Is it an addiction... maybe. An obsession... maybe. But most of all, it's an affection for our BDH's.

"...If you can't do summin smart... do summin right."

KURYA

Monday, October 31, 2005 12:07 AM

Hey Stakethelurk
I am sooo glad someone out there is thinking the same as me. I totally get what you are saying and in an unorganized attempt on the Serenity board I tried pushing that notion. Dont sit on your butt, go and market the dvds!

It is definately not a failure and will make profit.... but if we just sit there expecting success it will not convince Universal to greenlight a sequel. And for any of you who want a sequel, would you rather be safer than sorry? Yes Joss is going to be busy for the next 2 years.... but so what? If the DVDs sell well initially (with our help of course in marketing them), then it will give Universal more confidence in the franchise and might greenlight a sequel early on, and we can rest easy after that a bit.

Did anyone copy paste your original post to the Serenity Universal Board? If not can I do so? I think people need to get organized and formulate a plan to spread the verse. For sure most of the fans will be buying the dvds and buying extras for gifts etc, but thats not enough.

I think though renting(or netflixing that seems to be the trend these days) will play a role. Problem is that we have to get video rental stores of peoples interest in renting the movie. If individual rental stores(and therefore higher ups in management) see that there is interest they may be interested in buying a batch of Serenity DVD's. While thats not alot of money for Universal, but if Serenity climbs the rental charts(as well as the DVD selling charts), then people in general will take notice and wonder whats the fuss about a movie with no stars. And Universal will see that there is interest in the franchise. And its cheaper for people to rent the movie then to buy it.

That is why when the release date comes closer I plan to email all my friends who have seen the movie or seen the series or both, and are not as "hardcore" like me, that if they want more of the franchise they should consider buying the dvd, and if not at least should spread the 'verse to their friends and recommend friends to buy/rent the dvds. I figure thats the least we can do.

And to those thinking Joss and the cast not interested in doing sequels. Besides having contracts to do more movies, do you know what Love they have for this show? You surely know what Joss went through just to continue the verse and then ultiamtely to get the movie made. They are sooo interested in doing sequels Im sure. The love of the verse and the cast and crew each one talks about is not nothin. They consider themselves fans as much as we are.

Oh and I am sure everyone in the fanbase and the in the industry knows especially the way thing sare going there is no way to predict how this thing will turn out. Its totally unpredictable, so trying to compare it to previous examples is very very hard. Austin Powers is a good example of a simple scenario however there is one major difference. Mike Myers, not a no-name actor. He is not(or was not) a big big time star but he is relatively well known(and a canuck hehhehe). This movie unfortunately does not have that star power, but it has a good story and good reviews.

What I want is a sequel, and getting it wont be easy. Plus if we try our darndest and try to spread the word, and if it succeeds then won't you feel happy with yourselves? Lets say we overshoot and a zillion copies sell because of our efforts, I mean wont that give you a warm tingly feeling? We dont have to annoy people but respectively earnestly tell them that there is something good in Joss Whedon's creation to see. December 20th, is just under 2 months, lets get out there and kick butt. We can do it.

Prakash

For shindigs in Montreal join:
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/montrealbrowncoats/

Canadian? join:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/canadianbrowncoats/

SUMMERRIVERS

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 3:24 AM

Hey hey hey Everybody! Just wanted to tell yall some of my thoughts here(I didn't read the whole thread, I found it kind of upsetting you guys are so negative, so I really skimmed through it. Someone might've already said what I say, so don't flip):

If a good amount of Firefly Fans buy x number of Serenity DVDs (Depends how many TVs are in your house) for home right when they come out and there still a good $20, and then buy them & Firefly DVD sets for others on Christmas, Hanukkah, Random Celebrations, And Birthday Shindigs, we should get more than you guys are talking about. Adding onto this are the rentals, merchandise and Firefly DVD sales going to Joss. Another thing is the other movies Joss is making adding onto his money. He already has sound work and actors, so he won't use the money on hiring them. Working for him, they will, but not HIRING them or hiring casting directors for Main Role Characters. He has more money than you think. So do the things that Stakethelurk said we should and a little extra, Tell your friends (Trust me, everyone loves a good Firefly episode - I showed my friend who only likes Full House and 7th Heaven *Those are the ONLY 2 shows she watches* and she liked Firefly!) 'specially.

Emma

----
"Sure. I've got a secret. More'n one. Don't seem likely I'd tell 'em to you, do it?"

SPREAD THE WORD! C'MON, YOU WANT ANOTHER SEASON, DONT'CHA?!

RACEFANZ

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 4:13 AM

this whole thread is dumb, serenity will be out on dvd in dec. in time for xmas, formerly Chirstmas before Alliance stamped out religion, netlfix etc. are already posting approx. arrival dates

Steve from Yuma....OUT