Hunt for the Secret Hidey Place of Nice Boys

POSTED BY: mai
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 17:49
VIEWED: 58558
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LIGHTMEDARK

Saturday, October 29, 2005 1:36 AM

/me leaves his cave in search of a tree

---
inch towards daylight

BOVINITY

Saturday, October 29, 2005 4:30 AM

Hell, I have no idea if I'm a nice guy or otherwise, but after reading all the above stuff I feel compelled to post. Mostly for no reason at all, but partly to say that if you're a woman, and you like any of the things I like, we're meant to be something or other.

Here’s some stuff that I like:

I like Hubcaps
I like Laundry
I like Waffles
I like Ant farms
I like recess, picnics and eating’ pork & beans
I like tin foil and bow ties
I like cardboard and moon pies
When I’m soaking’ in the bathtub, I like shooting’ submarines! Shooting’ submarines!
I like Snoopy
I like Droopy
I like Charles Nelson Riley
I like Hee-Haw, Fat Albert, and I also like corn
I like Corn Flakes, corndogs
I like cornbread, and corn starch
I like the band Korn, and popcorn.
I like all kinds of corn! All kinds of corn!

I like egg rolls and crab rolls, crab legs, but not frog legs
I like duck sauce with duct tape and jumping’ on the bed
I like Popeye, pip eye, Popeye, poopeye, peepye
Olive Oil and Bluto and falling’ on my head. Falling’ on my head.
I like throwing’ biscotti at Bigfoot and Yeti.
I like Veronica and Betty.
Don’t call me Jughead.
I like gumballs and rum balls
I like cheese balls and cheesecake
I like pineapple upside-down cake
Why is it upside-down? Why is it upside-down?

(fyi - I stole all of the above from a certain weird cartoon)

JADEHAND

Saturday, October 29, 2005 5:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by safeat2nd:
I would imagine some are easy to kill than others.

Like...I don't know...maybe the ones than need a woman to cook for them, clean for them, and to do their laundry, while they sit around, scratch their bellies and watch sports on TV. They are soft indeed.

I would rather play sports than watch them, and my wife is not my trophy nor my slave.

Safeat2nd, Chief Handyman of Destiny

Huh. Well, I could care less about the cooking thing. I say we each cook one or two nights a week, and eat out the other nights. It's why they make resturants. Could split the other stuff too. Sports? "I'm not sly." don't care for 'em.

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"Dreaming the dream that only the sleepless know."

ORPHEUS

Saturday, October 29, 2005 5:53 AM

You know, reading this thread made me realize just what a jerk a couple years of college has turned me into. I used to be one of those nice guys. He's probably still deep down inside somewhere. But I very much doubt that he'll be showing his face any time soon.

Talk about a revelation I didn't need right before going to bed...

PIFFLE101

Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:13 AM

I give up on men.

Yah, piffle..I know Im young, I dont completley give up. Ill just let them find me, so I dont have to go outta my way. Yeah..That sounds good.

-------------------------------------------------
Because Dancers are tough,mean...Chicas!! -Summer Glau
----
-I think they captured his essence... -Wash
-Look sorta angry, dont he? -Kaylee
-Kinda what I meant. -Wash
---
-Everywhere I go..His eyes keep following me... -Kaylee
-----
-How bout we get away from this eerie ass piece of work and get on with our increasingly eerie ass day? How's that?!

BLACKEYEDGIRL

Monday, October 31, 2005 9:19 PM

Here, Here Piffle!

Anyone have any luck this weekend? I know it's harder to find them when they are in discguise, but maybe just maybe a few fled the island/cave for candy?

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
http://pluraplofapocalypse.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Inara: "Do aliens live among us?"
Kaylee: "Yes. One of them's a doctor."

LFO

Monday, October 31, 2005 10:23 PM

Hey BlackEyedGirl, you're blog link is dead :(

QUEENOFTHENORTH

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 12:01 AM

Yup, I'm entirely to the point where I just sit and let them come to me now. I've always been lazy :). Oh well maybe a nice one will take the bait soon.

~~~~
I give to you the Seeker of Serenity, the Valkyrie Warrior, the Gourmet Cook and the Truth Scoper.

DELUSIONALRAYNE

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 1:09 AM

hmmmm....this thread is truly interesting. Here's my 2 cents on this issue.

I agree that chemistry is really what is going to matter, but I have seen chemistry built over time, thus why friends before lovers works. I'm a hopeless romantic, hopeless meaning that as many times as I may be squashed, I can't give up the hope that I'll find that girl who is an equal.

Elaborating on equal, I don't mean someone who can do what I can do, that would be boring, I can already do it, but someone who wants to learn more of me and I want to learn more of her, that shares some qualities. For instance, I get all hot and bothered when I find a woman who can play pool as well as I can, but I don't care if she can rebuild an engine as fast as I can, it's just nice to share a couple things.

So are there many equal women out there (I will hit the thread topic in a sec, promise) for the nice guys? Seems like (please remember I said seems) most women are interested in playing the field. Now I'm 26, so one would think women my age would at least be interested in settling down for at least a little bit with someone to see what it would be like. Alas, pretty sure that's not true. So where are all the nice guys at? Well, if you group them together like that, they're all confused as hell by the women they want and hiding in the open. Seems like women misinterpret the confusion for non-desire (I'm sure this happens the other way around too) and it becomes "just friends" for a good deal of time.

Personally, I agree with BEG (I'm in the Navy so I'm all about acronyms) about being kind of bitter. I haven't found a woman to be close to in about two years now, not seeking sympathy, but just saying that it's old to play the typical games that guys and girls play. I'll hang out with women and throw out tidbits of things to see if I catch their interest, and will explore who they are. The day I find one who returns the interest to try and learn more, well, maybe that will be the right one.

So if there are some nice guys out there, don't just be available, show some interest in who they are and what they do, it will return to you quickly. Same thing for the guys looking for the nice girls, don't be shy, just talk to her and roll with the punches as and if they come.

Great....that 2 cents put me in debt....

Mal: Kaylee, what the hell's going on in the engine room? Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?

POTHER

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 2:43 AM

Someone further up in this thread had the right idea when they commented on finding nice guys at a game-playing gathering... go look for the nice guys at events/activities/places where you think nice guys that you would like to meet would go.

The types of guys you meet will change with the types of events/activities/places you pick.

So if you pick the bar on a particular night, those are the guys you get. Bible study on a different night, I'm sure you meet different guys. How about the laundrymat(sp?). (Perhaps that's too random!) Starbucks? Mountain biking? WWE matches? Autoparts store? Chess tournament? Community-college computer classes? Livestock shows? Oh and bookstores! How could I forget bookstores!

You will find some nice guys (most) everywhere!

+++++++++++++

Now what I want to know, being one of the "nice guys", is...

...how do we tell which of you women are NOT MENTAL CASES!?! My friends and I in college couldn't figure this out, and I still don't know.

(Disclaimer: Yes "mental cases" is an old term, may be politically incorrect, and sounds downright insensitive, but it accurately summarizes the behavior witnessed by many "nice guys" of the women around them.)

Alas, back to left field.

QUEENOFTHENORTH

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 3:11 AM

It's simple -- all us girls on this FF site are very intelligent, nice girls with a good sense of humor. LOL. And totally modest.

I give to you the Seeker of Serenity, the Valkyrie Warrior, the Gourmet Cook and the Truth Scoper.

MAI

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 7:39 AM

Quote:
So are there many equal women out there (I will hit the thread topic in a sec, promise) for the nice guys?

*Builds large neon sign pointing toward Serenitree* (and sometimes we even venture out into reality so be on the look out).
IRL? We're probably at most of the same places that the nice guys are (i.e bookstores) were just too shy or too jaded to come out of hiding.

Quote:
It's simple -- all us girls on this FF site are very intelligent, nice girls with a good sense of humor.

What she said.

AMYGDALA

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 7:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pother:

...how do we tell which of you women are NOT MENTAL CASES!?!

In my experience a girl referred to as a 'mental case' is often someone who has had a justifiable emotional response to being mistreated by some guy. The classification of 'mental case' seems to make this guy feel less guilty about his behaviour. I'm sure present company is excluded, of course. Girls, beware the guy whose ex-girlfriends are all 'psychos'.

FFF.net dating service: brilliant. Bags first dibs on all the policemen, firemen and pilots in my geographical area. Why them? Well, uniforms (of course, and yes, shallow), and they just seem like decent people, albeit with dangerous occupations, neutralising some of that niceness, making it seem less cloying.

----
"She was naked, and all ... articulate."

AMYGDALA

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 8:13 AM

Another thought:

This 'nice' and otherwise is really all subjective, isn't it? I don't think many people go into a relationship planning to be the bad guy. I'm nice to the point of pushover, and was absolutely astounded to find out one of my high-school boyfriends referred to me as 'the bitch' years later. Likewise, I referred to one of my ex's as 'the antichrist' when, looking back, he was just another guy with his own issues to deal with.

Think of it this way: in the relationships you've had - the guys you broke up with you probably refer to as 'nice guys', but those who broke up with you are more likely to be remembered as the bastards. We're all just people, and in our minds we're the heroes of our own tales.

Sure, some people do go into relationships prepared to manipulate, play games and ultimately 'win', but you wonder what happened to them before to make that so important to them...

----
"She was naked, and all ... articulate."

DELUSIONALRAYNE

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 4:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mai:
*Builds large neon sign pointing toward Serenitree*

Hehe, alright, for the sake of sounding like an uneducated fool (I've been called worse), what is the Serenitree? I've scrolled through this thread and though I am still learning more about this site, I haven't really figured this out yet. So, with my newbie hat on again, I pose the question, What in the world is the Serenitree, cause apparently the girl of my dreams is somewhere near there and I'd much rather be headed there than not. Thanks, and we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

Mal: Kaylee, what the hell's going on in the engine room? Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?

CALLMESERENITY

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 4:41 PM

The SereniTREE is a Collective Storytelling Thread. (No dice, TRM!)
It's crazy, it's been going on for a year and a half at least. There are some 30 odd threads in its history.

But you don't really need to know about that. You just need to find the most recent one (if it's not on the homepage, search under Talk Story, it'll be at the top) and read TheRealMe's lovely Guide to the TREE near the top. And then, if you feel so inclined, jump on in.

Having been on the TREE for some many months now, and having met many of the TREEers, I can honestly say that they are some of the shiniest people in the 'verse and I am proud to count myself amongst them.

And to Pother: I have a couple dear friends who were actual mental patients and who are now quite happily married and living normal productive lives. Please be a little more careful of what you say. Unless you like the taste of feet.

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

DELUSIONALRAYNE

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 7:37 PM

Now that was a graceful reply, and I respect grace, thanks. Hope all goes well with you today.

Mal: Kaylee, what the hell's going on in the engine room? Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?

CALLMESERENITY

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 8:04 PM

Thank you!

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

LIGHTMEDARK

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 8:11 PM

Here's a journal entry I wrote several years ago that I believe points to where my "niceness" has come from (wow, looking back at my journal, I do my best writing when I'm upset. Not so much on this one, but my other entries are full of absolutely stunning imagery)(edited for language, haha):

Quote:
< 1950.06.16.2003 >

I’m woefully inadequate. Out of my league. Really, I need to go back to being 16 or 17 so I can figure this * out. I am found wanting for experience. What is for me something incredibly significant is to others but a passing thought. Does she hurt, too? All signs point to no…thank you, captain obvious.

Actually I need to go back to being 6 or 7, before my life bore the scratch, or at least before I became aware of its horrible reality. I need a little altering of perception. You see, girls have been of great interest to me from a very young age. I was 7 when I first asked a girl to go with me. From my perspective back then, it seemed obvious: women want someone soft, someone that will listen with interest to all they have to share. Someone who doesn’t care only about sex, or even care about it much at all. From where I sat back then, sex was for guys. Women only did it because of the love they bore for their partner. Naïve, as everyone is at that age, I believed I could make myself into something that women would want, and hence I am who I am today.

Sux2b me, you might say. Girls, it seems, want a guy. They want someone that’s a little rough. They want to be wanted in a very physical way. In short, they don’t want me. Well, sometimes they think they do, but then, inevitably, they realize their folly. “They come by the millions, but I turn them away one by one…” My senior quote would lead most to think that I turn them away by choice, when in truth the person I chose to be at 6 has them running.

But that’s not fair…I can’t blame an innocent child. Looking back I can see that in almost every case I turn them away at about the same point in the relationship, the part where they hand me the ball and say “your move.” It’s at this point that I become crippled with desire. I drop that mother*ing ball every time, paralyzed with all the inexperience and confusion and stage-fright. I still remember telling my Mom when I was about 12 (and numerous times after) that the only way I’d ever have a girlfriend would be for them to ask me out, to keep the ball in their possession, their control. Wise before my time? Not *ing likely.

Funny, two years later, I've been mostly right. My two relationships have been with women that more or less pursued me. On the whole scratch thing (bears explaining since it seems a little melodramatic), I was diagnosed with deep depression by age 9. It's something I've struggled with my whole life. One of the biggest contributing factors to my last breakup was my being diagnosed as bipolar. My gf at the time just couldn't handle the thought of it, and later she found out in some roundabout way that suicide was something that crossed my mind on occasion, as it has from a very young age. She couldn't handle it. When she found out she called me, crying. It was hard for her to understand that for me it's a normal thing, as it is all I know.

Alright, if I keep rambling I'll let out my life story...so I'll stop now (and anyone morbidly interested in such continuation can contact me for more, I keep no secrets).

I've visited the Serenitree, I've been lurking there. I've still yet to make it through the monstrous threads. When I have, I'll make my presence known ;D

---
inch towards daylight

BRUISERSMOM

Monday, November 7, 2005 1:39 AM

So why don't you nice guys walk over to the girl and say hi? I always wonder when I'm out with my girlfriends where the nice guys are in the bar. Only the drunk morons seems to come up to me and I have to tell them to get lost. They're putting their hand on my leg or something and since I'm the female version of Simon, I'm sitting there thinking about how inappropriate it is when he's only just met me. Then, I hear that nice guys are too scared to talk to any women, so I stop going to bars. Now I spend Friday and Saturday nights at home watching Sex and the City or out to dinner with friends.

Sometimes, I hear that the nice guys who aren't hiding out at the bar spend their weekends at home. Maybe we should do a neighborhood scavenger hunt for them? Any thoughts?

Oh, here's a thought from the BruisersMom files. Sometimes the nice guy is still single and a waste of time because he's terrified of commitment or just very comfortable being a confirmed thirtysomething bachelor and only wants a woman to be his girlfriend for the rest of her life. Ended a relationship with one of those nice guys about a year ago.

Oh, and here's something scary. The above mentioned exboyfriend had friends who were just like him. They use to go out to dinner and movies together on Friday nights when they didn't have girlfriends. Maybe, I should post their names so that single women can avoid wasting their time on them? Yeah, why not. Their names are David Poepoe, Webb Deneys and I forget the other guy's last name. His first name was Jason. You'll see him with the other two guys anyway.

"You can keep a dog; but it is the cat who keeps people, because cats find humans useful domestic animals."--George Mikes

BRUISERSMOM

Monday, November 7, 2005 1:48 AM

That's a sweet story!

"You can keep a dog; but it is the cat who keeps people, because cats find humans useful domestic animals."--George Mikes

KELLYOFLUTHIEN

Monday, November 7, 2005 2:07 AM

BruisersMom, that sounds a lot like what I go through! Most guys who approach me at the bar are total sleazeballs. And those who appear to be nice end up just wanted a physical relationship with no strings attached (I had something like this happen a few weeks ago and was very discouraged, because I thought he really was a nice guy).

I've looked in my closet, in the cabinets, in the trunk of my car, and under the bushes for nice guys, but I haven't found any yet....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love my Captain

BARCLAY

Monday, November 7, 2005 2:40 AM

All right, as a guy who has been called nice and is all-too familliar with the things presented in this thread, I ask you nice women a question:

What should we say to you to distinguish us from the pool of drunken idiots, but that doesn't instantly turn you off to the thought of having a conversation with us? Perhaps if we knew what types of things would lessen rejection, we might be more willing to come out of hiding.

"You are on the Global Frequency."
http://www.frequencysite.com
http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com

BRUISERSMOM

Monday, November 7, 2005 2:43 AM

It's so sad that he turned out to be a sleaze but I'm not suprised. I had a girlfriend who dated a lot of guys from her favorite Irish pub and she gave up on it after a while because she found them all wanting a physical relationship and nothing more. Watching her go through men from the pub, it seems like there are a lot of guys who don't want a relationship ever or just ended a relationship and are on the rebound.

Or, I had a different girlfriend who dated an Irish singer who worked in the pub. Turned out all that he wanted to do was sing Irish music which would've been fine if it paid the bills so that he didn't have to mooch cigarettes, food and shelter off of my friend who was dating him and friends. My girlfriend tried to talk him into getting a day job but he wouldn't and she soon realized that his other friends had tried too to no avail. She dumped him when she realized that he was just going to hang around as long as he was getting sex and free cigs.

"You can keep a dog; but it is the cat who keeps people, because cats find humans useful domestic animals."--George Mikes

KELLYOFLUTHIEN

Monday, November 7, 2005 3:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barclay:
All right, as a guy who has been called nice and is all-too familliar with the things presented in this thread, I ask you nice women a question:

What should we say to you to distinguish us from the pool of drunken idiots, but that doesn't instantly turn you off to the thought of having a conversation with us? Perhaps if we knew what types of things would lessen rejection, we might be more willing to come out of hiding.

"You are on the Global Frequency."
http://www.frequencysite.com
http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com

Speaking for myself (and who knows if I actually have the same ideas as other women?), I think something sincere and friendly, but not sleazy, is the best bet. For example, I think it was ChrisIsAll who said he approached a girl and just told her he had been noticing her all night. That's cute, not too stalker-ish, and definitely not sleazy. Pickup lines are sleazy. Grabbing at me is sleazy. But friendly conversation, and actually listening to what I say, is flattering.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love my Captain

RICKKER

Monday, November 7, 2005 6:05 AM

okay I'm gonna try to put in my 2cents.
Since forever I've had a problem talking to people. I used to joke it was terminal, it felt like it was killing me. I've since gotten better but by no means "out of my shell" Constant compliments have been "nice" guy + cute. I think average in terms of looks. I have been in relationships before, just not very many or overly long. Some family members believe I'm gay because I haven't had a girl friend since, well it's been a long while since anyone other than me has taken hold of my plow.
I spent 8 years in the navy. In the beginning there was a girl. I was stationed on the east coast, she was in Seattle area and young. Long distance relationships dont work. While in the military I wasn't comfortable starting a relationship. For me, I want to be there for her and I want her to be there for me. Not very likely when you are gone @ half the year. Since then I have gotten my life back together and got myself into a position that I was comfortable seeing people. After getting out I was living with the folks gettin back on my feet. I have asked some women in my area out, some I thought were interested, I got some signals, so far none said yes. Where the hell was I going with this?
My sister is convinced I'm waiting for a supermodel. Nope, most are just to damn skinny. I've made a habit of going to local sci-fi conventions.(creation cons in Seattle area) The Xena one really threw me. lots of women, just not into men. I usually go with my nephew. Kindof a bonding thing for us. He's really cute, isn't that suppose to be like the puppy thing in the park,(oooh factor or something). I'm not really picky, just not looking for anything, and although sex would be great, not so mucha priority as a friend, companion. Did any of this make any sense? I'm rambling again aren't I?

XEROGRAVITY

Sunday, November 13, 2005 12:03 PM

Someone needs to start a masculinist movement (replete with men burning jock straps) (not very original, stole that from Red Dwarf).

It's odd to me in this day and age to see and hear women still calling men villains in the dating world.

Who emasculated who? And who wants to effeminize who?

Or who effeminated who and who wants to emasculize who?

(did I just invent a word?)

XG

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

TALLAUSSIEBROWNCOAT

Sunday, November 13, 2005 2:23 PM

Quite a lot of us are in hibernation, sometimes due to confidence, sometimes due to tending to past wounds. Sometimes a bit of both.

Hell, my luck is pretty bad, but still better than a lot of guys'.

My amused outlook is that I ALWAYS pick the girls that are:

A) Psychotic.

B) Taken.

C) Lesbian/Bi.

or

D) All of the above.

The last one I was with gutted me something fierce. Yo-Saff-Bridge couldn't have done a finer job.

I was only 20 too.

To cut it short, we'd been close as could be for three months, and all of a sudden, she sent me an SMS (AKA cell text message) telling me it was over.

I found out why when she invited me out to the city soon after getting rid of me. And I planned to at least try one last time to win her back.

I found out on the day that she had also invited a guy we both knew from work (we worked in different divisions, same company). This didn't completely set off alarm bells.

We also met up with two of her friends at the city's Showground festival.

Cue now definite ex-girlfriend and guy from work kissing away as if I was like the Predator and not visible to either couple at all.

And after this display she talked to me like nothing happened, actually expecting the fifth wheel that had been crushed under her heel TWICE now to follow her/them!

Either she was thick as two bricks, or she KNEW what she was doing.

I made my excuses and got the hell OUT of there.

That was three years ago now. Not a date since/yet.

So there's one answer. Some of us had exes as bad as(or worse than) Yo-Saff-Bridge.

*Smokes from the Satanic Heel Print*

As a final word though, I can say, as put off as I have been, I DO want to give dating a try again.

And perhaps someone with likes/dislikes closer to mine might help, who knows?

*Aims to try his luck with Geek!Grrrrls*

--------------------------------------------------

"Hey, support it best you can! I believe supporting this as far as we can will get Serenity restarted. Right now seems VERY "Out Of Gas", and the Fans are Mal. We need to get her running to get the Big Damn Button pushed."

"I don't care what you believe in! Just BELIEVE!"

- Self Quote from a reply to a post about Serenity

LIGHTMEDARK

Sunday, November 13, 2005 10:13 PM

Wow, XeroGravity, you have my head spinning, haha ;D

Another point about lack of nice guys (or at least me): I was recently told by some guys that this girl that works the same place I do was mad about me. They said even they could see the heavy hints she was dropping me for a while now. I don't know why none of them mentioned it until she gave up and went with some other guy (she's rather beautiful, no problem with getting men).

My point is that I literally have approximately no clue when it comes to women and their "hints," and my method of hinting to them is apparently ineffectual, as something that would be significant to me doesn't set off anything for them.

Yet another reason that my two relationships have been with women that more or less smacked me over the head with their interest.

---
inch towards daylight

THESENTINEL

Monday, November 14, 2005 12:50 AM

Plus a lot of those guys are already MARRIED. Nice guys tend to do that...

Or they're gay...

Which I guess they could be married too...

But only in Vermont...

Is it Vermont?

Adam

CALLMESERENITY

Monday, November 14, 2005 4:26 PM

That's part of the problem, isn't it? Reading signals can be difficult.

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

ZOOT

Monday, November 14, 2005 4:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LightMeDark:
Wow, XeroGravity, you have my head spinning, haha ;D

Another point about lack of nice guys (or at least me): I was recently told by some guys that this girl that works the same place I do was mad about me. They said even they could see the heavy hints she was dropping me for a while now. I don't know why none of them mentioned it until she gave up and went with some other guy (she's rather beautiful, no problem with getting men).

My point is that I literally have approximately no clue when it comes to women and their "hints," and my method of hinting to them is apparently ineffectual, as something that would be significant to me doesn't set off anything for them.

Yet another reason that my two relationships have been with women that more or less smacked me over the head with their interest.

---
inch towards daylight

I actually agree, LMD, that it’s really unfair the way men are required to take the initiative (or at least they are in olde-wordly places like England) and us girls have to wait for the nod from the young gentleman of our choice, having to satisfy ourselves with dropping HEAVY hints and hoping they get the message … I’m told there are places where a girl can ask a man out, but certainly where I come from that would be considered fairly forward and likely to make any young man run in terror, scattering roses as he goes …

I once spent a year (a WHOLE gorram year!!) dancing round a guy I thought wasn’t interested, when it turned out he was simply as girly as I was and was waiting for me to make the first move – which I was really never gonna … the only thing that saved us was huge quantities of inhibition-removing alcohol and an empty house …

SO believe me, I sympathise with the whole not getting the signs thing – I personally like to think there are hundreds of nice boys out there swooning with affection for me, each of whom I gaily trot over on a daily basis, totally oblivious – It’s either that or no one’s the least bit interested …

***************************************

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

XEROGRAVITY

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 4:55 AM

TAB

The female of our species is infinitely more deadly than the male.

It remains true from insects, all the way on through to mammals in every part of nature.

Life on Earth-that-is is just full of basic lessons.

Don't fall in love with a black widow. In other words, don't fall for the "nice girl" routine.

XG

KELLAINA

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 5:33 AM

I love this thread. Not that the fact that it needs to exist is a good thing, but the comaderie of it... I hope that came out right... I'm not trying to say that anyone's pain is good or anything like that. Just that I can completely relate to it and am therefore happy the thread exists.

Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:
Don't fall in love with a black widow. In other words, don't fall for the "nice girl" routine.

What is the "nice girl" routine? 'Cause now I'm kind of worried that this may be my problem...

Hell with this; I'm gonna live! - Kaylee "Serenity"

If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. -"Angel"

Browncoat? Canadian? Join us:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/canadianbrowncoats/

KELLYOFLUTHIEN

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 7:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kellaina:
What is the "nice girl" routine? 'Cause now I'm kind of worried that this may be my problem...

Uhoh.....I'm a "nice girl"....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love my Captain

Check out my Big Damn FF Icons at http://www.livejournal.com/community/bigdamnfficons/

TALLAUSSIEBROWNCOAT

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kellaina:
I love this thread. Not that the fact that it needs to exist is a good thing, but the comaderie of it... I hope that came out right... I'm not trying to say that anyone's pain is good or anything like that. Just that I can completely relate to it and am therefore happy the thread exists.

Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:
Don't fall in love with a black widow. In other words, don't fall for the "nice girl" routine.

What is the "nice girl" routine? 'Cause now I'm kind of worried that this may be my problem...

When it comes to guys, I'm one of the foolish ones, hoping to find the best in everyone.

Look where that got Kaylee. During the show I mean.

(Quite a trail of no and where.)

--------------------------------------------------

"Hey, support it best you can! I believe supporting this as far as we can will get Serenity restarted. Right now seems VERY "Out Of Gas", and the Fans are Mal. We need to get her running to get the Big Damn Button pushed."

"I don't care what you believe in! Just BELIEVE!"

- Self Quote from a reply to a post about Serenity

CAPTAINMALISMYHERO

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 12:38 PM

Well, if I were to consider myself a nice guy that would mean I think very highly of myself, I consider myself an alright guy. I've been told that I'm very nice but I just don't see it, I don't know.

STDOUBT

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 2:12 PM

Just finished reading this thread.
I'm really curious about the demographics
of these forums. I'd imagine the age ranges
would skew to the younger crowd (18-24)?
Asking because I'm 38 (yeah, yikes!) and I'm
wondering if I'm the only Grandpa. Actually,
I've never married...(again, yikes)
I have a ton to say about Firefly/Serenity, but
that's for another forum.
Back to topic,
To echo a few other posts, alot of guys are in hibernation for various reasons. I know this because all my guy friends who *don't care* about commitment, *don't care* about the woman as a person to maybe be with long-term are out there _Getting_It!_ The guys I know who *do care*, (with rare exception) are single, and kind of in give-up mode. Myself included.
For all you younglings out there, the Thirties are kinda strange - I *feel* 27, so when women that age call me sir, it really messes with my head.
Anyhoo-
I agree it's about chemistry but utmost imo is communication. It's weird how you can climb a 1000ft sheer slickrock face with no ropes, address a room full of professionals, coax a growling Doberman into being nice, and then CHOKE when a woman you think is attractive starts chatting you up..... WTF IS that?!?!
(Warning: you too may end up 38 and not know wtf)
P.S. This is the 1st place I've heard of LARPs -- do they take geezers generally?
P.P.S. Mai, where do you want us?

Good Luck all, y'all seem real "nice" to me.

"She understands... she doesn't comprehend"

THESOMNAMBULIST

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 2:38 PM

All this talk of Chemistry..... What about biology! There has to be some biology right? Mind you lets not forget about the physics too, eh phnarr, phnarr!!!!!!... Dang!...I shoulda done science at school - but then, I thought it was all about poetry and the arts...y'know you have to be able to express yourself correctly, when you see that certain someone who you spark with... Oh...Sparks!!!! It is all about chemistry!!!.... Who'd have thunk it!

www.cirqus.com

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 4:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:
TAB

The female of our species is infinitely more deadly than the male.

It remains true from insects, all the way on through to mammals in every part of nature.

Life on Earth-that-is is just full of basic lessons.

Don't fall in love with a black widow. In other words, don't fall for the "nice girl" routine.

XG

This is indeed such an interesting thread.

I've always thought this nice girl/guy phenomenon was a little mysterious. I mean most everyone claims to be nice looking for nice but from what I've seen, we all have some not-nice and we're all drawn to the dark side on occasion. I certainly don't think there's more focused niceness on any side of the gender line. We're all human.

My take, of me, is that I'm more on the abrasive side (maybe not to the black widow point) but I want to be nice. Really I do! It just doesn't work out. I'm not good at it.

I had an excellent discussion of this kind of thing with a very wise (and truly nice) friend last spring. Her suggestion is to be my abrasive self but always make sure that the people that count know they are important to me. This isn't as easy as it sounds, but has been somewhat successful.

Maybe that just means I'm becoming nice?

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.

"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

KELLAINA

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 4:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TallAussieBrowncoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kellaina:
I love this thread. Not that the fact that it needs to exist is a good thing, but the comaderie of it... I hope that came out right... I'm not trying to say that anyone's pain is good or anything like that. Just that I can completely relate to it and am therefore happy the thread exists.

Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:
Don't fall in love with a black widow. In other words, don't fall for the "nice girl" routine.

What is the "nice girl" routine? 'Cause now I'm kind of worried that this may be my problem...

When it comes to guys, I'm one of the foolish ones, hoping to find the best in everyone.

Look where that got Kaylee. During the show I mean.
(Quite a trail of no and where.)

Maybe the key is patience? And a life jeopardizing gun battle?

Hell with this; I'm gonna live! - Kaylee "Serenity"

If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. -"Angel"

Browncoat? Canadian? Join us:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/canadianbrowncoats/

STIZO

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 4:31 AM

All girls looking for a nice guy should read this:

http://espanol.geocities.com/numeritos/10percenters.html

Yes we do exist. True enough, we're not out there in large numbers but statistically speaking, you should be able to find one.

The real problem is that, for whatever reason, women are attracted to jerks. I know this is not always true but it is more often than not. (at least from my own experience)

Viva la 10 percenters!

----------------------------------------------
Conquering the 'verse with terrifying space monkeys, one ship at a time...

THATWEIRDGIRL

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 4:36 AM

I can't speak for everyone in here, but I happen to be a cusper. 29...I'd say communication is it! I don't have a problem approaching a guy, I, however, am not one of the searchers so it's silly for me to be here...

And I'd like some of those sparks Ric is talking about.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
"...turn right at the corner then skip two blocks...no, SKIP, the hopping-like thing kids do...Why? Why not?"

PEACEMAKER

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 5:41 AM

It's true about women and jerks. True, and aggravating. Who ever thought nice guys would have to fake being jerks to get girls? Blows the mind...

Matt

MAI

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:42 AM

Quote:
Plus a lot of those guys are already MARRIED. Nice guys tend to do that...

Or they're gay...

These two things are only a problem when the "nice" guy doesn't tell you before you start dating him.

Not that I'd know from personal experience or...uhhh I just yeah

MAI

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:46 AM

Welcome to the thread!

Quote:
P.P.S. Mai, where do you want us?

ATTENTION: The line for nice boys to date forms at my front door.

Let's go boys!

THUNDAR

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 7:55 AM

For demographics sake, I am 44. I too looked up not too long ago and thought WTF, I've been letting a social life pass me by.
Now, unfortunately, most Women I tend to be attracted to are in their 20's to 30's and won't look at the old man twice.

With the intent of meeting some like-minded females, one in particular, I went to a few of the local meet-ups. Turns out she is Married, the search continues.

CALLMESERENITY

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:51 PM

I'm not attracted to jerks. If he's not nice to babies and puppies and his mother, I am NOT interested.

Of course, it's like Mai said, you don't always know right up front. The jerks tend to pretend to be nice to you (and the babies and the puppies) and do all the things they think you want them to do because they're trying to woo you and then, once you're wooed, they start to show their true nature. By then, you're hooked and it's harder to just cut him loose.

I got over my bad boy phase in high school.

Thundar-lots of women prefer older men. They get tired of the immaturity of the men their own age. They want someone stable and secure. I tend to date older men. One guy I dated was 11 years older than me. So, all I'm saying is, don't give up hope.

Oh, and Mai-if the line for the nice boys starts at your door-I'm moving in with you!!

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

THESOMNAMBULIST

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 2:00 PM

thatweirdgirl wrote:

Quote:
I can't speak for everyone in here, but I happen to be a cusper.

ok, ok Alene... You're gonna have to help me out here... I er.... This is going to be one of those really embarrasing moments where I illustrate just what a 'mungus doof I am, but..........

What's a cusper?!?!?

(I know, I know, this is right up there with that time I sat around a table at a pub and nodded 'knowingly' when the conversation jinked to talk of Metrosexuals....And when an accusatory remark came my way as to how 'metrosexual' I was, I rather too keenly, butted in with:

"No,no I like girls OK!!!"

Which was met with stoney faces, a beat, and then the entire table laughing at me.) Hey how was I to know !?!?

So to avoid any repetitions of said encounter, and subsequent humiliation, lets get it out in the open now..... could you do me the favour of explaining 'a cusper' ? For I know not what one is? Thank you

Quote:
And I'd like some of those sparks Ric is talking about.

Hey you not had the sparks? Why TWG you'd like the sparks! I've had 'em :) They were great... of course it turned into a raging inferno that went out of control and burned me - but hey.... Like a firefly dancing in the still summer night sky... It sure was mighty purdy there for a while......

*sigh*

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

XEROGRAVITY

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 2:20 PM

Hmm.. I was just being facetious in previous posts. I'm a strict adherent to the "be publicly weird" philosophy. I'll forego my cosmic ethos and be serious for one of those super-rare moments...

Nice is a relative term. In fact "nice" has nothing to do with being happy in relationships. Just be honest. Be blunt, and brutally honest. Always say what you're thinking and what you truly believe (even if you're wrong at least you're being honest). Be honest even if it costs you. I've been around the block a few times on this one.

Be like that 24/7.

I think if you do that, you'll attract someone just like you. You'll probably be hated everywhere you go, but at least you won't be a phony. Of course, you don't tell that drunk man-ape biker in the bar who is the size of a refrigerator that his physical presence is offensive to your nostrils unless you fight like River Tam and have an escape plan. But you get the idea.

XG

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

TALLAUSSIEBROWNCOAT

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 2:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mai:

Welcome to the thread!
Quote:
P.P.S. Mai, where do you want us?

ATTENTION: The line for nice boys to date forms at my front door. Let's go boys!

Shiny!

'Cause, I aim to misbehave...

--------------------------------------------------

"Hey, support it best you can! I believe supporting this as far as we can will get Serenity restarted. Right now seems VERY "Out Of Gas", and the Fans are Mal. We need to get her running to get the Big Damn Button pushed."

"I don't care what you believe in! Just BELIEVE!"

- Self Quote from a reply to a post about Serenity

CALLMESERENITY

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 2:36 PM

I don't know what a cusper is either.

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

JADEHAND

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 2:40 PM

I imagine TWG means "on the cusp". She states that she's 29, therefore, within a year ...30. On the cusp....cusper.

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"Dreaming the dream that only the sleepless know."

CALLMESERENITY

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 2:51 PM

Oh, I don't like that word. I just turned 28. I don't want to be on the cusp of anything.

*runs away from cusp.*

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

THESOMNAMBULIST

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 3:56 PM

Jadehand wrote:

Quote:
I imagine TWG means "on the cusp". She states that she's 29, therefore, within a year ...30. On the cusp....cusper.

Thanks that would make sense...Crazy youngsters and their crazy language.... ahhhh well :)....I obviously missed my chance of being a cusper - I'll bare it in mind for when I'm 40 though.

I knew I'd look an arse.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

ZOID

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:32 PM

Mai, et al:

This is a fascinating thread and one which I've only begun to read; but since the answer to your query immediately came to me, I decided to preemptively reply. I hope I'm not repeating someone else's response that I haven't read yet...

All the 'nice boys', 'good guys', et cetera are hiding out in the homes of their wives. In other words, if you want a good man without having to build one yourself from scratch, you're gonna have to try to steal one from another woman. It's a bit tricky though, since if you can steal him, he's not likely to be a truly good man, n'est-ce pas?

As for the old saw related by a (male?) poster way back at the top of the thread, "Good guys finish last": it's illogical. A race is properly run from the starting gate to the finish line. In contradiction, 'nice guys' get pulled out of the 'race' by their trainer/handler before the first furlong is run, and immediately put out to stud for the rest of their lives.

Regarding the 'bad guys' who presumably finish first -- and how can that be a good thing, ladies? -- if they're still available for whatever combination of excuses, then they're still single for a reason. That reason is this: They're not suitable mates. If they were suitable mates, some woman would have snapped them up in a heartbeat.

But here's some consolation... Just because all the men/boys you are currently encountering are not suitable mates at this moment in time, that does not mean those same boys/men won't be magically transformed into suitable mates sometime in the (very near?) future. Men -- like women -- do mature emotionally over time (albeit, very slowly when compared to women... or redwoods, for that matter. ).

Hardship and trauma -- emotional or otherwise -- are the most frequent maturing agents for males. A guy splits with his long-time girlfriend... His father/mother/SigOther passes away... He's involved in an accident/hospitalization that forces him to reexamine his intentions in life...

I'm not advising you to hit on a guy who's in turmoil or pain (that would be counterproductive in the long run, imo); but rather, monitor his emotional progress as he recovers from the traumatic event. You might find he's more thoughtful, caring and genuinely appreciative of Life's gifts (meaning, your beautiful self).

Show me a guy who's been force-fed a heapin' helpin' of his own pride by way of Life's random hard knocks and emotionally survived the meal, and I'll show you a guy who's ready for real love.

Smart women (or just intuitive ones) know that scars make a man attractive, not six-pack abs, large bank books or an abundance of intelligence, and they don't need a transdimensional portal to find one...

Confidentially,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity

CALLMESERENITY

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:44 PM

I disagree with the statement that all the nice guys got snatched up first and got married already. That has not been my observation. Married men don't seem to be any nicer than unmarried, in my opinion.

Also, I know many wonderful men that aren't married, or who got married at a later age simply becuase they didn't meet the right woman right away.

And then, am I supposed to look at every unmarried man I meet and think "What's wrong with him. There must be something wrong with him or else he'd be married already?" That's not a healthy way to live.

And then, using the opposite argument, you're saying that there must be something wrong with US women because we aren't married yet. As if there's some Hierarchy of Nice and the further down you are on the pyramid, the longer you have to wait to get married.

Other than that, I agree with what you wrote. Scars do make us more interesting. Suffering develops character.

I have lots of scars.

JADEHAND

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 7:45 PM

Zoid,
Welcome back. It's been too long since I've seen you post. Or maybe I've just not been reading everything lately. I've missed your deep thoughts and could have used them a few times, But it seems you went a bit shallow on this one. Maybe oversimplified. Not everyone who reached 25 without getting hitched is terminally broken. Though I imagine some of us are. Yes 25 was a while back for me, and I'm still single, never married, but to assume that means "not a nice guy", seems wrong, I mean in general. With me specifically, well you're probably right. I'm a bastard. But years (and years) of being nice and not getting snatched up, may have something to do with that. But I don't want to get all finger pointy and blame shifty. I did make the choices that brought me here.
I hope it's only I who've misinterpreted what you wrote. If so, my appologies. Perhaps you could clarify? Anyway, It is truly good to see you back. And I hope this isn't seen as an attack. It's not.
Cheers,
JadeHand

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"Dreaming the dream that only the sleepless know."

CALLMESERENITY

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 9:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jadehand:
. I'm a bastard.

You are NOT!

Take that back.

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

MAI

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:06 PM

Quote:
Oh, and Mai-if the line for the nice boys starts at your door-I'm moving in with you!!

Oh! Wouldn't that be fun!

*Looks out front door* Nope. Not there.

Apparently the nice boys got lost (and though nice, still not smart enough to stop and ask for directions).

*Puts up signs everywhere*
NICE BOY LINE OVER HERE!

IAMZOE

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:15 PM

nice guys... always have a bunch of over-protective female friends looking out for him and making sure no unsuitable women show up.

what an entertaining thread...

THATWEIRDGIRL

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:35 PM

I would like to point out that at no point in this thread (and yes Ric that's what i meant by cusper) have I said I am in the market for a nice guy...that position is taken (I’m no longer sharing those kind of details with the general public so you'll just have to trust me on that).

I agree with IAMZOE, the nice guys have a guard around them, they may not always be aware of the guard but it is there guarding. I can relate. I hover around my male friends and screen out the bad women too. Lordy, I hope I'm not one of the bad women. Sometimes I think I am. And sometimes I think I'm not. I want the best for him and I worry that’s not me, I want it to be me cause he’s not just nice he’s so much more, ya know? Ack! Rambling.

*hopes over protective female friends think she deserves a shot*

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
"...turn right at the corner then skip two blocks...no, SKIP, the hopping-like thing kids do...Why? Why not?"

IAMZOE

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:53 PM

yeah, those poor nice boys, they're so trusting, they think all girls are nice. Good thing there's evil folks lookin' out for them...

still, I heard that the right nice person can bring out the niceness in you too, so things can always work out no matter how weird they seem at first.

Romance, that's the thing: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=4&t=10218

LIGHTMEDARK

Thursday, November 17, 2005 12:16 AM

We're trusting, and we're not...the not usually comes about when someone figures out that we are trusting (she-devils abound ;D). Because of past experiences I will probably always have some issue with trust.

I don't think I have a guard, as it were ;D, but then again maybe that's why no one ever gets through. All my chick friends seem to think I'm some sort of gift that no woman is worthy of. I really don't think they're involved in it, though. I think it comes from my inability to understand any but the most excruciatingly obvious hints from women coupled with my "morals" or ethical code and plain old good fashioned shyness with women.

---
inch towards daylight

JADEHAND

Thursday, November 17, 2005 12:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CallMeSerenity:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jadehand:
. I'm a bastard.

You are NOT!

Take that back.

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

Ok, you're right. My parents were married, and remained so. I just didn't want it to sound like, "Hey, I'm offended. I'm a nice, single, not young person." Cause that wasn't the point. The broad generalization that I "heard" whilst reading, was what concerned me. I'm like most people. I can be very nice, I can give the

a run for his money. I'm a product of my environment most of the time. Chameleon. When I'm surrounded by Browncoats, I tend to be kind and fun and generous. At work, well not so much. Must change jobs. I was at work when I wrote that, so I was feeling a little less than kind. Sorry if I ruffled feathers.
I retract the statement that I'm a bastard.
Cheers,
JadeHand

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"Dreaming the dream that only the sleepless know."

CYBERSNARK

Thursday, November 17, 2005 2:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Men -- like women -- do mature emotionally over time (albeit, very slowly when compared to women... or redwoods, for that matter. ).

Hey now! I resent that! I've got all the emotional maturity of a redwood!

What?

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

THATWEIRDGIRL

Thursday, November 17, 2005 2:26 AM

This. The reason I've stayed at FFF for so long. The little gems our members spout.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Hey now! I resent that! I've got all the emotional maturity of a redwood!

*hugs Cybersnark*

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
"...turn right at the corner then skip two blocks...no, SKIP, the hopping-like thing kids do...Why? Why not?"

ZOID

Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:40 AM

Jadehand and CallMeSerenity:

CMS wrote, in part:

Quote:
I disagree with the statement that all the nice guys got snatched up first and got married already. That has not been my observation. Married men don't seem to be any nicer than unmarried, in my opinion. ...And then, using the opposite argument, you're saying that there must be something wrong with US women because we aren't married yet. As if there's some Hierarchy of Nice and the further down you are on the pyramid, the longer you have to wait to get married...

You and Jadehand both took me to task on my post, so I'll elucidate a little more...

But as to your specific assertions, as quoted:

1. All the good men are married. By 'good men', which I believe everyone will agree are preferable to 'nice guys', I mean suitable mates. I agree that being married does not insure that a man is good. But sure as God made little green apples, a 'good man' will get "snatched up" (as you yourself put it, heh-heh) by a woman who knows what's what, and lickety split. But I also believe good men -- and women -- are forged, not born. Being a former bad boy myself, I can attest that people can and do change for the better. I am reminded of the last scene of "Saving Private Ryan", in which Ryan begs his wife to tell him he is a good man, and that he has led a good life. His uncertainty, his humility in asking his wife to validate his 'goodness' (she appears surprised that he would even have to ask), is the defining quality of a good man. It made me cry just having to remember that scene in order to write about it. If you want to know if you've got a good man, show him "Private Ryan" and watch his reaction on that scene. If it gets to him, drag his ass to a preacher, post haste... (NB: In fact, SPR is chock full of 'good man' characters; I'd bet that even Reiben grew up to be a good man.)

2. Nope. Women are generally all about the heart, in a way men are generally not. At least not ab initio. I personally think this is more about biological imperatives than anything else. In much the same way that I think a male welterweight will virtually always beat a female welterweight because men are genetically predisposed to be more heavily boned and densely muscled, I think women will always have a naturally sweeter heart than men.

Why? Males are naturally (meaning: 'born to be') more aggressive/competitive and seek advantages in their mating environments, often making outrageous physical, mental or social gambits in an attempt to establish dominance over their competitors. They swagger. They feel they are invincible. They become egotistical and convinced of their mastery of the universe (even in the utter absence of evidence to support this stance). This is the lesson of the Greek myth of Icarus: At some point, Life takes notice of this vanity and lays them low with some well-placed sucker punches. One of two things happen: 1) They blame it on something other than their own shortcomings; 2) They reassess their presupposed mastery of the universe.

In scenario 1, they find excuses for why they have failed; as a result, they will fail again. This can be a one-time-only mistake, or they may continue to refuse to accept their culpability for the rest of their lives. In scenario 2, coming to grips with their own 'ordinariness' -- in both the good and bad aspects of their character -- leads to a sense of commonality with their fellow human beings, and a deeper empathy for the feelings of others (as opposed to, for instance, snickering at others for their lack of strength, prosperity or beauty, etc.).

As I said, the un-nice guys y'all are encountering may in very short fashion be transformed into nice guys, because Life will keep slapping them in the face until they wake up. Being a narcissistic pretty boy -- or a doormat in hopes that a crumb may eventually fall from the Mistress' lap -- is an unbalanced state. Nature ('Life') likes to break things that are unbalanced and bring them into equilibrium.

The problem -- as

LIGHTMEDARK

Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:35 PM

I'm honest with myself...I know my "shortcomings," but it seems I'm completely and utterly unable to remedy them. Of course that's fallacy, I can surely change, yet trying all these years has gained me nothing. I try to inch towards daylight, but the sun pulls farther ahead with every step. Really, I think it comes down to my personal code of ethics. For any progress to occur I need to abolish that code, but in doing so I destroy myself as that code defines me. Perhaps that is an abyss I will attempt to cross. To quote some lyrics of a song that helped me through one of the worst periods of my life "We'll burn this mother*er down, Tomorrow we start again." Should I tear it all down to see what rises in my place?

---
inch towards daylight

JADEHAND

Friday, November 18, 2005 12:33 AM

LightMeDark,
I don't know how old you are, doesn't really matter. I used to be where you are. The whole destroy who you are and see what grows in it's place thing...... I don't recomend it. I tried that. Guess what grew back? nothing. Being the walking dead ain't as much fun as it looks. Making changes can be hard. Think of it like trying to make repairs on something. Say you need to change the hinges on a door. trying that without a proper screwdiver can be frustrating, but destoying the door (temping as it may be) will not help overall. You need a different tool. Want to make changes (repairs) to yourself and not having luck? Change the tools you're using, don't kick in the door. Chasing daylight whilst walking? not going to happen. you can try running, then a bike, then a car, might do ok when you get a plane, but jump on board Serenity and well you get the picture. Some tools don't work. Some do. Some excel. Now I don't know what tools you've tried, so I can't really make a recomendation. But, don't change your ethics. Not the way to go. Maybe you dislike who you are now. That's ok, it inspires change. Change your ethics, and you'll end up loathing yourself. That only leads to self-destruction. I hope this adds some perspective, If you want further input, let me know. Maybe that Psych degree will finally get some use.
Sorry for the long windedness.
Cheers,
JadeHand

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"Dreaming the dream that only the sleepless know."
"Say you understand me, And I will leave myself completely.
Forgive me if I stare, But I can see the island behind your tired, troubled eyes." -Fantastic Place (Marbles) -Marillion

MALICIOUS

Friday, November 18, 2005 1:13 AM

Ahhhhhhh! Convolution, thy name is Zoid.....

I've missed you greatly, my friend.

Mal-licious

I'm going to add cursing and the hurling about of things to my repertoire.

KAYLEEWANNABEE

Friday, November 18, 2005 5:25 AM

Cool...a Firefly hookup thread! ;) Kidding...

If I knew where the nice guys are, I'd be dating one. The last guy I dated turned out to be "nice" in the sense of opening doors, etc., but not nice in the sense of being a total pothead and stealing from me. Hrrmph. THAT was character-building!

I find, as a smart, non-average woman who doesn't look like a supermodel, that 98.97% of men will not look at you twice if you're not "hot" enough to appear on the cover of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue.

A close male friend (straight) told me once that in the first 10 seconds after a man sees you, he's asking himself, "would I do her?" And if the immediate answer isn't "HELL YEAH" then he puts you into a "sexless friend" silo, from which you will never emerge as far as he's concerned.

So it's possible that I am surrounded by "nice guys," but they'd never consider dating me because I failed the 10-second test with them. And I'm not a troll, seriously. I'm a size 14, take care of myself, am well-groomed, etc.

Hrrrmph. Admittedly, I'm bitter. I signed up for eHarmony last week. Out of 8 MILLION members, I have been matched with SIX men. The only one I was even vaguely interested in closed me out immediately.

But I have my Mal fantasies to keep me warm.... :D

Holy crap....this post is sad and pathetic. Somebody tell a joke!

-----
It's my job to incite powerful yearning in the hearts and loins of my clients. No, silly, I'm not a Companion...I work at an advertising agency.

ZOID

Friday, November 18, 2005 6:54 AM

Good to be back(ish), Mal! And if any of youse guys are looking for a good girl, Our Goddess of Love, Mmmm-Ahhh-Licious is the lady for you. Okay, so replace 'good girl' with 'the right kind of bad girl', and 'Goddess of Love' with 'Goddess of Unbridled Lust'... Truth in advertising, and all that...

There was a little girl
Who had a little curl
Right in the middle of her forehead;
And when she was good
She was very, very good,
But when she was bad she was terrific!

That's our 'Lishy!

Badly,

zoid

P.S.
What's that whirring and thumping noise? Oh... It must be Longfellow doing about 1000 RPM.
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity

GAMESTALKER25

Friday, November 18, 2005 7:39 AM

KayleeWannabee-

Holy crap....this post is sad and pathetic. Somebody tell a joke!

Knock Knock...

Who's There?

The interupting cow.

The Interupting co...

MOO!

Hope that brightens your day, one of my fav jokes...that is not horrible dirty...and inappropriate in most conversations.

You can't take the sky from me...

ZOID

Friday, November 18, 2005 9:13 AM

LightMeDark (a stagecraft reference?) wrote:

Quote:
I'm honest with myself...I know my "shortcomings," but it seems I'm completely and utterly unable to remedy them. Of course that's fallacy, I can surely change, yet trying all these years has gained me nothing. I try to inch towards daylight, but the sun pulls farther ahead with every step. Really, I think it comes down to my personal code of ethics. For any progress to occur I need to abolish that code, but in doing so I destroy myself as that code defines me. Perhaps that is an abyss I will attempt to cross. To quote some lyrics of a song that helped me through one of the worst periods of my life "We'll burn this mother*er down, Tomorrow we start again." Should I tear it all down to see what rises in my place?

Well, this is a Firefly website, so...

The Serenity Prayer

God grant me the Serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
the Courage to change the things I can;
and the Wisdom to know the difference.

There are things we cannot change about ourselves. I'm not talking about genetically determined factors like our race or gender, either, but parts of our fundamental personality. Just as a f'rinstance: It really burns me up when people talk about 'converting' gays into heteros, because being gay is only a lifestyle choice. One of the "tools" Jadehand was alluding to that I've found indispensable in my life is the old Amerind adage that if you want to understand a fellow human, you must first walk a mile in his/her moccasins. Suppose the societal norms were reversed and I -- a hopelessly heterosexual male -- was forced to hide my overwhelming attraction to females? Would trying to make myself normal in this fashion make me feel any less distracted or disoriented around an attractive female? I don't think so. The only change would be purely cosmetic, an external image that wouldn't reflect the internal me.

My problem is that I'm an a$$hole. (No, really!

) I don't mean the kind that abuses people intentionally, but rather the kind that dominates every conversation and stifles other people's need to express themselves. Many on this board will attest to this fact. But, the written word at least allows an opportunity for others to respond -- "to get a word in edgewise" as my father used to say -- before I go gallivanting off on another tangent. Now, just imagine being in a room with me... (NB: My wife is truly a saint. Any other woman would've strangled me in my sleep, years ago.)

The good news is that I can also be totally withdrawn and uncommunicative, to the point that it hurts other people's feelings. Basically, I go through periods in which I'm intensely examining some idea or train of thought in my head, and can't be bothered with outside distractions (meaning my loved ones, friends and coworkers attempts to communicate with me).

Realizing how this behavior affects others -- by visualizing myself in their position -- I learned to leave room for others to speak, to consider how my choice of words might affect them, and to make myself available to them during my periods of introspection. Have I perfected this methodology? No. But, I am striving every day toward that perfection, even though I know I can never fully succeed because my personality -- my nature -- is what it is.

Which brings up the last invaluable tool. I forgive myself for being fallible. I know I'm trying my best -- on most days -- so I don't beat myself up for being an a$$hole. But forgiveness is a two-way street. If we want it for ourselves, we must be willing to give it to everyone else we meet, too. Slip into their moccassins and see if they're not just like you: lost and confused, and simply trying to find their way in the darkness.

Everyone needs forgiveness. We are all flawed. We all have that in common. No one is alone in being imperfect. If you can see that, you're on your way to inner peace and self-acceptance.
(NB: There'll still be bills to pay and toilets to unstop, so don't get too happy about your prospects.)

DAISYCUTTER

Friday, November 18, 2005 9:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mai:
I started my own thread! YAY ME!
So here's the thing, we know there are nice men out there somewhere.
Our goal: To find them and capture... umm ask them nicely to come out and play.
The question remains where is said hidey hole and how do we get to it.

Portals?
Planes?
Time Travel?

If this thread makes sense to you... yay! If not, then all shall be revealed, so stick around.

Mai-Mai
Newest Offical Randomn Girl!

THREAD CLOSED....

Only joking, its just my time spent on other forums where we couldn't make threads like these.
I'm a guy, question still lingers as to whether I am nice

-------------------------------------
Q: Why don't we just raise the defensive shields?
A: A superb suggestion with just two major drawbacks. One, we don't have any defensive shields. And two, we don't have any defensive shields. Technically speaking thats only one flaw, but it was such a big one I thought I mention it twice.

MAI

Friday, November 18, 2005 9:37 AM

Quote:
The Serenity Prayer

God grant me the Serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
the Courage to change the things I can;
and the Wisdom to know the difference.

Words to live by. I believe it with all my heart, I just have a difficult time putting it into practice.

Quote:
I can also be totally withdrawn and uncommunicative, to the point that it hurts other people's feelings. Basically, I go through periods in which I'm intensely examining some idea or train of thought in my head, and can't be bothered with outside distractions (meaning my loved ones, friends and coworkers attempts to communicate with me).

Holy

! Are we twins? I've always thought that this was one of my major flaws. The trick is to explain to those that care that it's not personal. If they love you and they are very, very, very...etc. patient then it's not always a bad thing.

Quote:
And for those who are having trouble finding someone to love and in return be loved, try focusing on finding a beautiful soul and paying less attention to the meat package it comes in.

Whether, you admit it or not you are a nice guy. Anyone who can give this advice and follow it for themselves is well ... SHINY. Or at the very least, as someone mentioned earlier, have learned enough through experience, that the "not nice" edges have become worn down. And that is one hell of a head start!

TOTALLYFRYED

Friday, November 18, 2005 11:31 AM

MAJOR SPOILER ALERT!!!!! If you're looking for the key to the whole 'why are there no nice guys' mystery, it's all contained in the section below:

Select to view spoiler:

I remember hearing Adam Corolla say once (paraphrasing here), "The problem isn't that there are no nice guys out there. You meet nice guys every day. You meet them at work, you meet them at school, you meet them at church, at the supermarket; in fact you probably know nice guys pretty much everywhere you go. There's only one thing wrong with all these nice guys: you're not romantically interested in any of them whatsoever."

Take it from someone who's done years of personal research on the subject: any guy who's nothing but nice, polite and accomodating to women will always find himself in the friend zone, a place none of us guys want to live.

"C'mon, Kaylee. We all know I'm the funny one."

KAYLEEWANNABEE

Friday, November 18, 2005 4:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TotallyFryed: Take it from someone who's done years of personal research on the subject: any guy who's nothing but nice, polite and accomodating to women will always find himself in the friend zone, a place none of us guys want to live.

I disagree! I had an acquaintance in another fandom who I got to know through various fanclub activities, etc. Had a huge amount in common, had a great sense of humor, was always very NICE, etc. I totally fell for him...which was a shame, because he was busy with his own unrequited love deal.

-----
It's my job to incite powerful yearning in the hearts and loins of my clients. No, silly, I'm not a Companion...I work at an advertising agency.

BLACKEYEDGIRL

Friday, November 18, 2005 7:29 PM

Don't forget, the 'friend zone' works both ways buddie. This is of course coming from what I call a 'buddy-chick' which is the chick that gets to hang with the boys, and occasionally gets to have sex with one of them, but whom none of them would ever seriously date (because they say things like 'i don't want to be in a relationship' and then WHAM! they end up in one, right after crushing 'buddy-chick's' hopes and dreams, no I'm not bitter).

As someone who's recently been crushed by the gigantic arm of 'friendship' I've gotta say, I still believe that you should only date people who you would be friends with, cos if you wouldn't be their friend outside of yoru relationship what in the hell kind of person are you dating??

Any and all intersted men-folk in the greater Wisconsin area are encouraged to gimme a shout, cos I'm willing to try anything at this point, and hell, I already know we both like Firefly! That's a good starting point right?? PM me or check out my blog for more info and peering into my deranged mind. (there's also photos there)

My god I just pimped myself! I feel kinda dirt-er okay about it though....

-BEG out...

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
http://pluralofapocalypse.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Inara: "Do aliens live among us?"
Kaylee: "Yes. One of them's a doctor."

CALLMESERENITY

Friday, November 18, 2005 7:50 PM

Oye this thread has taken some crazy and unforseen turns!

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

XEROGRAVITY

Friday, November 18, 2005 8:10 PM

The opposite sex (in addition to proving itself inferior again and again) is insanely annoying.

Think that probably qualifies as a very unisex statement. Genderless. True.

I resort to my previous argument. Honesty. Blunt, brutal, ruthless truth at all times under all circumstances regarding all subjects.

XG

or else (divorce, financial complications, years of precious lifespan wasted, children w/out parental control, stigma of having children and being someone's "ex", etc.)

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

XEROGRAVITY

Friday, November 18, 2005 8:13 PM

and PS...

if that kind of honesty would doom the relationship, then it's doomed already. You're just buying time.

XG

BLACKEYEDGIRL

Friday, November 18, 2005 8:17 PM

Is it wrong that I think you're right XG??

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
http://pluralofapocalypse.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Inara: "Do aliens live among us?"
Kaylee: "Yes. One of them's a doctor."

CALLMESERENITY

Friday, November 18, 2005 8:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:
and PS...

if that kind of honesty would doom the relationship, then it's doomed already. You're just buying time.

XG

There's a difference between being honest and being just plain mean.

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

BRUISERSMOM

Friday, November 18, 2005 9:24 PM

I wondered if anyone else is getting a lot of questions about why they aren't married from coworkers, friends and family? Also, are they running into a lot of assumptions that they must be desperate to marry anybody who will ask from these sources? Since turning thirty eleven months ago, I am suddenly dealing with both of these questions a lot and they both drive me crazy because they lead to assumptions like there is something wrong with you if you are not married and if you are not married after the age of twenty-nine you must be so desperate that you would marry anyone.

In my case, I could've been married twice, to two different men, both of whom weren't compatible with me and were hoping that I would change in some significant way after marriage, which is why I turned them down. One thought that I would convert to his religion and the other thought that I would decide to have the dozen kids that he wanted. If they showed up again, still single and willing to marry me and still expecting me to change, I would turn them down again for the same reasons that I did previously. Kind of blows holes in the whole woman who isn't married, therefore must have something wrong with her and be desperate enough to marry anyone who asks theory. That inevitably follows on the heels of the aforementioned questions from coworkers, friends and family.

Honestly, if Mr. Right never shows up, I am going to be happier living single with my beloved pets, teaching the kids at school and volunteering on weekends at the ASPCA.

"You can keep a dog; but it is the cat who keeps people, because cats find humans useful domestic animals."--George Mikes

BRUISERSMOM

Friday, November 18, 2005 9:29 PM

One of my seventh graders at school told me a very cute joke.

Q: If you're American when you're in the bathroom and American when you're out, what are you when you're inside the bathroom?

Select to view spoiler:

A: European. (You're a peein'.)

Har, har, har.

For you KayleeWannabe and everyone else who needs a joke!

"You can keep a dog; but it is the cat who keeps people, because cats find humans useful domestic animals."--George Mikes

XEROGRAVITY

Friday, November 18, 2005 9:36 PM

A difference between being honest and being mean. It's all relative. Two examples of this as I've seen it play out in the lives of people I know...

Example 1:

I wrapped my legs around my husband's best friend and best man at his wedding because he made me feel neglected, didn't satisfy my emotional needs, was bad in bed, etc.

Example 2:

I slept with my wife's little sister because she was getting older and uglier, the sex was routine and the thrill was just gone, and I needed a little variety.

2 very real excuses I've heard. I also heard it justified by the offenders with the argument that to tell them their spouse the truth would have been mean. It would have been cruel to be so blunt and upfront. Doesn't have to be wives and husbands. Can be boyfriends, girlfriends, significant others, etc.

What's more mean? Telling them "your" truth upfront and avoiding a future of humiliating misery, or sparing their feelings and visiting cruelty like that on them later? All because you couldn't tell them how you feel and deal with it (or break the deal).

They will find out. They always find out. They sense it. Later, they get it confirmed for sure.

Blunt, brutal honesty. Like I said before, being happy in a relationship has nothing to do with being "nice". Nice guys always finish last.

Be honest. Be mean. Only thing that works.

XG

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

THATWEIRDGIRL

Friday, November 18, 2005 10:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
I'm an a$$hole.

Maybe you are, but you're our a$$hole and we love you for it.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
"...turn right at the corner then skip two blocks...no, SKIP, the hopping-like thing kids do...Why? Why not?"

LIGHTMEDARK

Friday, November 18, 2005 11:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
LightMeDark (a stagecraft reference?)

Nope, actually a reference to Me being caught between the light and the dark in all things (i could assert that I am in fact two people, both equally extreme...one conservative and one liberal. I often find myself with two completely opposite views on the same subject, like say abortion or assisted suicide, or drugs/alcohol and sex. each half is obviously irrevocably at odds with the other. At least one side wins out more than the other in the struggle for control) I also assert that light or dark is a matter of perspective. What is seen as good could someday be seen in a negative light, then again seen as an act of sainthood at another time.

Quote:
There are things we cannot change about ourselves. I'm not talking about genetically determined factors like our race or gender

Ah, but the things I speak of are things that I can change as they are only matters of how I perceive. My biggest hurdles (aside from the obvious things out of my control (and some in my control but will be saved for later conversation)) are my views on relationships/sex and drugs/alcohol, which, admittedly, I take more than one side on.

Quote:
The good news is that I can also be totally withdrawn and uncommunicative, to the point that it hurts other people's feelings.

Haha, this reminds me of the other night. I don't really care to go out to the bars, but my cousin who I consider a brother and is one of the most important people in my life loves to, so I humor him and occasionally enjoy it. This night I wasn't really liking it whatsoever, so I was in bad spirits. One of his female friends from work kept yelling at me and calling me unsociable because I hadn't said a single word to her (or almost anyone there). Towards the end of the evening she demanded to know why I was silent to which I almost replied that it was because I didn't like her, but I figure it would annoy her more for me to just remain silent...so I did. I'm rarely if ever mean, but I definitely was then. I could only take so much abuse.

My dad has a hard time with this. I can be incredibly talkative, but often I'm silent. When I go to my parents house for dinner and TV my dad's temper flares sometimes because I won't say much of anything. He just doesn't understand silence. I always tell him that it's a mark of how comfortable I am around him that I don't need to fill the gaps with useless words.

Quote:
Which brings up the last invaluable tool. I forgive myself for being fallible. I know I'm trying my best -- on most days -- so I don't beat myself up for being an a$$hole. But forgiveness is a two-way street. If we want it for ourselves, we must be willing to give it to everyone else we meet, too. Slip into their moccassins and see if they're not just like you: lost and confused, and simply trying to find their way in the darkness.

I find it hard to forgive my own shortcomings. I'm rather ruthless about it. I'm tormented by not being "good enough" at anything I'm doing. I've never really been a competitive person, but I think deep down I am. Even when I do "well" at something I am often disappointed in myself for not being better.

However, I find it very easy to forgive others and their shortcomings. That whole you must love yourself first bit annoys me. I have little love for myself, but I have an overwhelming amount of love for others. Self love doesn't get in the way for me.

Quote:
So, take heart brother. You don't have to tear yourself down in hopes of becoming perfect. Attaining perfection is a fool's goal, anyway; even the orbit of the planets isn't perfect and the Earth wobbles on its axis. Striving for perfection makes us 'good men' and 'good women'. Remember: You are sufficient for the world from the day you are born, and it for you.

One of the things that has gotten me through is the idea of perfect imperfection. Without it I may have gone completel

KAYLEEWANNABEE

Saturday, November 19, 2005 2:40 AM

BlackEyedGirl...

Are we twins, separated at birth??? I read your post and did the fist-pumping "right ON!!!!" thing! You expressed yourself SO eloquently. RIGHT ON.

Several guys have told me that I'm frightening/intimidating because I'm too independent, opinionated, non-wallflowery, I know how to use power tools, etc. Well, screw 'em, they're not right for me, then, are they? (And I mean that in the nicest possible way.)

However, I do believe that men and women ARE different, and the difference are what make things fun. I'd love to find a guy who gets off on taking care of me, because he KNOWS he doesn't have to, and allowing myself to be taken care of is a gift that I give to him. I love that male/female give and take in a relationship. (That's the only kind of game-playing I'm up for.) Everybody needs strokes; I think it's perfectly okay to engage in a "relationship dance" that makes the man feel more manly and the woman feel more womanly.

Women nearing 30 and unmarried are looked at as strange? Honey, I'm 40!!!! I've had long-term relationships (and short-term ones) but I've never lived with anyone (the cats don't count). I have a successful life, I own my own business, I'm generally well-liked and respected in my field, and, as I said before, I own power tools and I know how to use them. I could stand to lose some weight, but I'm not obese. I'm actually very happy, have very little baggage (carry-on size at most) and I don't go for the "simpering female" crap that a lot of women use to manipulate men. I think my biggest deal-killer is that I don't want kids, and guys my age tend to already be on their first or second set of kids and many of them want more! YIKES!

But I'm not a Settler, so I'm still hangin' out on a Firefly board on a Friday night instead of out on a date. I don't want to say it's hard to keep "fighting," because I don't want to frame this as an adversarial exercise. But I get your point.

It's difficult to do what you know to be right, and it's difficult to stand up for what you want and know you deserve. Especially when it seems like every other person you know is in a relationship. If your self-esteem is kind of shaky, or you get your feelings of self-worth from outside instead of inside, then it's far more likely that you'll cave and settle and spend a lot of money on romance novels.

But if there is one thing I've learned, BlackEyedGirl, it's that it's vastly better to be alone than to be with a guy who's not right for you.

Quote:
Originally posted by BlackEyedGirl:
Here's how it is: I am a ballsy, brazen, pretty, loud mouthed girl. The way I see it is this, if you don't have the guts to ask me out, or even just talk to me (just talking to me is mostly enough, cos you had the guts to take the risk, to take the chance), then you probably don't have the guts/balls to deal with me....Well, generally I don't need a man. I can take care of myself, I don't want your money, or to boss you around, or for you to fix stuff or buy me things or so any of that stupid demanding crap, I don't really need you for that, what I need is a partner in crime, a confidant someone who will be there to laugh with me and who will be there when I need them and who I can be there for too. I need a friend who I can't live without, who the sight of makes me die a little inside, who I want to take care of and to take care of me, someone who makes me quiver with anger (sometimes) and who can melt me with a word. Someone who can teach me something and who is willing to learn. I want someone with the self confidence to let me be the smart girl that I am and not feel intimidated.

There are 2 kinds of woman in this world: Settlers and Fighters. Settlers will give up and just marry whoever comes along that is sort of good enough, someone they can mold. They give up the dream, they settle. Then there are fighters, and we aren't going to take less than we want, less than we deserve. There aren't a lot of us, and everyday we lose a couple cos they just can't take it any more. We

JADEHAND

Saturday, November 19, 2005 3:56 AM

Quote:
(i could assert that I am in fact two people, both equally extreme..I often find myself with two completely opposite views on the same subject.What is seen as good could someday be seen in a negative light, then again seen as an act of sainthood at another time.
...

Yes, I very much identify with that. Often depends on the target of the subject.

Quote:
.Ah, but the things I speak of are things that I can change as they are only matters of how I perceive. My biggest hurdles (aside from the obvious things out of my control (and some in my control but will be saved for later conversation)) are my views on relationships/sex and drugs/alcohol, which, admittedly, I take more than one side on...

Perception of self is often the key to making changes. Convincing yourself to believe what you may consider a lie about yourself now, may make it true if you believe it long enough. (so was it a lie? if only it brought out the truth that you couldn't see?) Rambling (or not). Moving on....

Quote:
.I find it hard to forgive my own shortcomings. I'm rather ruthless about it. I'm tormented by not being "good enough" at anything I'm doing. I've never really been a competitive person, but I think deep down I am. Even when I do "well" at something I am often disappointed in myself for not being better.

However, I find it very easy to forgive others and their shortcomings. That whole you must love yourself first bit annoys me. I have little love for myself, but I have an overwhelming amount of love for others. Self love doesn't get in the way for me.
..

Sucks when you percieve yourself as not good enough, yet better than most others at the same time, doesn't it? See above conflicting simutainous views. The love yourself bit. Hard to do when you can't find anything inside worthy of it....yet so many people around you do. What are they seeing that you don't? I'm there. My love battery is running low, I gave a lot out without getting recharged.

Quote:
.That is my focus. Of course one can't be with someone they find repulsive...their has to be some physical attraction and I believe chemistry is very important (which is bad because girls I have chemistry with are usually the ones I'm least compatible with in other areas). I am the guy that looks to no other when he as a girlfriend. To me my past gf's were the most beautiful things walking this earth while I was with them.

..

True. I didn't even notice others when I was involved.

on a final note: The whole nice guys finish last thing. Well yeah. They always make sure she finishes first.

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"Dreaming the dream that only the sleepless know."
"Say you understand me, And I will leave myself completely.
Forgive me if I stare, But I can see the island behind your tired, troubled eyes." -Fantastic Place (Marbles) -Marillion

XEROGRAVITY

Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:11 AM

For cryin out loud... stop already with the whining.

Women are whores, men are users. Ok ok ok ya ya ya. We all get it.

If you are a man and you whine about how women broke your heart, guess what. You are in the process of growing a spine. Buck up, show some backbone (the one you're now growing). I'm 100 percent Yank but a likeminded Brit would tell you to do the whole stiff upperlip thing. Ya vampire women gravitate to weak-willed men with brokenspirits. Conquest is all-important. Wrack up the numbers, plant a flag, and announce you came and conquered. Stop whining. Be strong.

Vice-a-versa.

Ladies... we just wanna get laid. Slide inside with no complications. We're cold, emotionless, and after one thing. There ain't no complexity to man versus woman stuff. It is what it is. But you're allpowerful because we plant the seed, and you make it grow. If you think a man is using you then he very likely is. It's OK. You can avenge yourself on him because you are allpowerful. Just don't whine about it while you usurp his mojo. If you do whine, make sure you cry some alligator tears. The allimony judge will dry them up with his checkbook. Luckily for you, you figured out we men are just singleminded monsters who want to own you.

Those children will always want to know who the planter of the seed was. Are they acorns, or mighty oaks? Or just weeds?

XG

Thank the powers that be we have hollywood. They can make movies and set our minds right again. Shakin' a tree boss.

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

RACOONBOY

Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:28 AM

I just gotta say in response to whoever said the geeks were the nice ones, not all geeks are nice, and not all popular people are cruel.

A guy at my school, let's call him "Dan", now Dan is the biggest tool you will ever meet, he thinks he is popular and cool, but everyone hates him and thinks hes a turd, except for a few people, he is a nerd/geek who is ugly and a piece of shit, the worst kind of guy you can get, same as my brother.

And don't go figuring I'm an ass because of what I said then, I just hate Dan.

I'm really a nice guy.

Really.

CALLMESERENITY

Saturday, November 19, 2005 4:12 PM

What was it that Joss said? I think it was:

Just be yourself. Unless you suck.

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

BRUISERSMOM

Saturday, November 19, 2005 8:41 PM

KayleeWannabe, I don't want kids either. It's been a relationship stopper on many occassions for me too when the guy that I'm dating wants them.

The last guy that I dated was a computer programmer who worked from 9-9 or 9-11 o'clock Monday-Friday and on a couple of weekends a month would go in on a Saturday or Sunday all day too. One day he told me that he wanted kid. I chuckled at him and said, "Even if we got married and had a kid, when are you ever going to see her? She'll be at school by the time that you get up in the morning, in bed by the time that you get home. That leaves just the weekened to see her and even then, you often work one day." He just looked at me silently and went back to watching TV.

Onto another topic, sometimes, those guys who already have a passel of kids with multiple women and want more. I have theory. They're still searching for that perfect Leave It to Beaver family. It didn't work out with those other women, so they're trying again, with you or me.

"You can keep a dog; but it is the cat who keeps people, because cats find humans useful domestic animals."--George Mikes

BLACKEYEDGIRL

Sunday, November 20, 2005 3:12 AM

KayleeWannabee, Bruisersmom,

Thank You! Thank You So Much! Seriously.

I have high self-esteem, but even so it's hard to convince myself to keep fighting. I look at women in their 30's, 40's hell 50's on up, who are successful, happy and alone and I am so proud of them. Why? Because they didn't give up the fight, they didn't give up the dream. They found what they wanted in life and they went after it, they took it and they took no prisoners along the way. I hope I can remain that strong if the right guy never comes along.

Also, I totally Agree with you KayleeWannaBe about the whole 'man who wants to take care of me, because he knows he doesn't have to.' I just recently got dumped (well, not really dumped, downgraded I guess) and what had me convinced that this was right was that I wanted to let him take care of me. This never happens, ever. Cos I hate the idea of some guy taking care of me because he thinks he has to. This time around he took care of me and I didn't hate it cos I knew I was still held in high regard, it was more like 'no let me make you dinner, you had a long drive' which was nice and not manipulative. It was genuine and it didn't diminish who I am but made me feel really girly. I loved it, and now I miss it desperately.

One of my biggest issues is people (not just men) who di things because they think they are supposed to, not because they want to, but because they think this is the way it works. It feel manipulated and ridiculous.

A while back one of my friends was shocked to hear that I had never cohabitated with a man. I didn't think this was that strange, I've never even considered moving in with a man (then again I've dated like 2, maybe 3 men in the last 5 years so it's more likely a numberss issue). My theory is I see a lot of people who date, move in with each other, and that's it. I have 2 male friends who've lived with their girlfriends going on 3+ years and don't want to marry them, they still think there might be someone else out there for them. Which to me is a huge OMG! Break the fuck up, cos you are just stringing each other along. I don't get that. Get married or break up don't stay cos it's easy and convienent while you wait for the next best thing!

The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

BTW: If either of you can find it, I highly recommend the book 'Quirkyalone' it's all about this sort of movement of people who refuse to settle.

It's a Saturday night and here I am, on the Firefly board, reading blogs, and pretty damn satisfied. I'd love a partner in crime, but right now I'm feeling pretty okay just with me.

Also, there are lots of guys out there who don't want kids. My best friend married one, neither of them want a passel of ankle biters, they have 2 dogs and 3 cats and that's a big enough menagerie for them. Just keep your hopes up and keep your eyes peeled. I currently live in an area where if you are single at 25+ and not already through your first divorce with at least 2 kids you are a freak of nature (they are breeders up here in Wausau, BREEDERS I say!), and every guy I have met has kids, and I don't really want someone elses baggage. I don't want to deal with offspring that didn't come out of me (and even so I only want one, and it will be well behaved and very much loved and attented upon as opposed to these people with a herd of kids with ADD), and that fact alone can't get me a date.

BTW: I'm not whining, I'm bitching, which is totally different! ;)

Also BTW: Nice guys beware of the soul sucking harpies they are out there and circling like sharks to destroy you. Be very careful. They can't all be evil but a lot of them are looking for a victim and if you can't be strong enough to stand up to them they will eat you alive, and remove your spine. I may be loudmouthed and opinionated but I have never ever destroyed a man because I could, nor have I ever castrated or soul sucked anyone. So don't necessarily be afeared of the ballsy intellectual fantastical girls, cos they are usually not the ones who are out to destroy you.

This t

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Sunday, November 20, 2005 4:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BlackEyedGirl:
A while back one of my friends was shocked to hear that I had never cohabitated with a man. I didn't think this was that strange, I've never even considered moving in with a man (then again I've dated like 2, maybe 3 men in the last 5 years so it's more likely a numberss issue). My theory is I see a lot of people who date, move in with each other, and that's it. I have 2 male friends who've lived with their girlfriends going on 3+ years and don't want to marry them, they still think there might be someone else out there for them. Which to me is a huge OMG! Break the fuck up, cos you are just stringing each other along. I don't get that. Get married or break up don't stay cos it's easy and convienent while you wait for the next best thing!

Curious...we're not supposed to date anyone we aren't sure we're going to marry? My boyfriend and I aren't married, because we know that we're young, and we might find other people. I don't think that means we should break up. We're happy together. Knowing it may not be permanent makes us no less happy now.

And what's the significant difference between cohabitating and just dating? Either way we need to live with roommates, and it's much less awkward for everyone if we choose each other to be those roommates.

"it has some sweet character deaths -- I mean moments!" - Joss Whedon

XEROGRAVITY

Sunday, November 20, 2005 8:37 PM

*bangs down the gavel*

"This meeting of the 'She-Woman Manhater's Club' is called to order.' Today's topic, same as yesteryears. Same as next years. Meeting convened."

*straps on parachute and bails out nearest window*

There is nothing redeemable in being alone. Nothing noble or strong about it. Unless you're a monk (or monkee, monkess, monkette, whatever the female version of "cloistered soulsearcher" would be) (I'm personally fond of "monkee" btw). You're either antisocial and freaklike or very deep (deep thinker, deeply disturbed, just deep).

XG

ps ~ if selfish women are whores, what are manwhores? Can't take "manwhores" seriously because it makes us wanna laugh out loud. I tried "users" but it felt unequal. "Studs" feels more like a label we all wish we had. Still trying to figure out the male equivalent of that word.

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

KELLAINA

Sunday, November 20, 2005 9:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:
*bangs down the gavel*

There is nothing redeemable in being alone. Nothing noble or strong about it. Unless you're a monk (or monkee, monkess, monkette, whatever the female version of "cloistered soulsearcher" would be) (I'm personally fond of "monkee" btw). You're either antisocial and freaklike or very deep (deep thinker, deeply disturbed, just deep).

Is it better than to be with someone just for the sake of being with someone? Because there is nothing noble or strong about that either.

Quote:
ps ~ if selfish women are whores, what are manwhores? Can't take "manwhores" seriously because it makes us wanna laugh out loud. I tried "users" but it felt unequal. "Studs" feels more like a label we all wish we had. Still trying to figure out the male equivalent of that word.

I think the word 'whore' is greatly misused. Not too long ago a guy called me a whore after I refused to dirty dance with him. That may make me a lot of things, but whore ain't one of 'em.

Oh, and the male version is

Hell with this; I'm gonna live! - Kaylee "Serenity"

If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. -"Angel"

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