Why do people like this show???

POSTED BY: RiveR6213
UPDATED: Monday, January 1, 2007 20:10
VIEWED: 20414
PAGE 1 of 1

RIVER6213

Thursday, November 3, 2005 11:29 PM

I tried to watch Buffy the vampire Slayer...I really did because there seems to be an aweful lot of people who like it, but I have to say...its not very good at all. What makes it so popular?

HOGWAFFLE

Thursday, November 3, 2005 11:34 PM

well where were you trying to watch it from? the first season isnt very good, but its a foundation for the rest of the seasons. i like the show because its funny, emotional and humanly realistic, same as all joss's shows

RIVER6213

Thursday, November 3, 2005 11:39 PM

Yeah? Well my show hooked me from the start and then kicked me to the curb.

ELEANOR

Thursday, November 3, 2005 11:55 PM

I started watching Buffy because of people on this board--I thought it would be worth a shot since it is from Joss, after all. I find that I can enjoy it as long as I don't take it seriously. Every episode leaves me with a "yes-but what about----?" question, and it's pretty easy to find plot holes. But I just take it as lightweight entertainment and don't worry about that. The dialogue is great, and if some of the actors aren't exactly perfect, they improve over time. (I'm only on season 2 right now, though.)

Admittedly, it doesn't compare to Firefly at ALL. I can react to Firefly as though it were real. I can't really get that into any story based on a supernatural premise, and I always found vampires the least interesting of all nonexistant beasties. But I can enjoy Buffy on a shallow, fun level.

"Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out." –Cardinal Wolsey

EMBERS

Friday, November 4, 2005 12:06 AM

did you try watching the movie? because they pretty much threw out Joss' script...
you have to watch the TV show to get an idea of Joss' writing.

if you DID try the TV show, and didn't like it...
then maybe you just didn't get the metaphor goodness or have a prejudice against little blondes?

I noticed that 'Firefly' was pretty much 'little blonde free'....

but personally I loved LOVED Buffy (the musical is my favorite episode of anything Joss ever wrote including 'Firefly' or 'Serenity')

But Firefly will always be closest to my heart...

unless he writes something new I like even better

**********************************************
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and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse,
and have you joined the Browncoats yet?
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&u=embers&linkID=36

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Friday, November 4, 2005 3:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I tried to watch Buffy the vampire Slayer...I really did because there seems to be an aweful lot of people who like it, but I have to say...its not very good at all. What makes it so popular?

It's constantly witty, it's self-mocking (without just being overly self-referential), and it has some damned sexy characters. I think the majority of the plot lines are a lot of fun, and individual episodes are hilarious. Try watching "Hush", or one of the other episodes people have named on the "best episodes" thread.

Of course, I can't guarantee you'll like it. It's not realistic like Firefly (Sunnydale, for example, expands and contracts as necessary), and it's got melodrama to spare. That means it just isn't some people's thing.

But give it another chance, and don't expect it to be a similar sort of thing to Firefly. You might find you like it after all.

[And by the way-- if you tried to watch the movie, I've got to say, it's some of the most unwatchable shit ever made, judging from the first half a scene, which was all I could bear to sit through. The show is nothing like it.]

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

LIMINALOSITY

Friday, November 4, 2005 3:29 AM

Yeah, what he said.

I started watching Buffy after I fell in love with FF. Joss' voice, humor and vision are the things I enjoy, whatever the vehicle.

Vampires have always been my favorite scary creatures, so how could I not love funny vampires, dorky vampires and vamps with angst?

I agree that if you choose from the 'best of' thread, you'll find lots to enjoy. 7 seasons makes for some slogging through eps that are less good.

Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

OPPYH

Friday, November 4, 2005 7:07 AM

Let's see, how can I put this? Ok got it: Buffy is the best show ever created that didn't get cancelled. It's because of Buffy that I even watched Firefly in the first place. If you are a fan of Joss Whedon, you should love Buffy. It's not a rule, but more of a fact. Joss is Buffy. Here is a simple test: Watch season 1(or at least Prohecy Girl from season 1) of Buffy followed by season 2. If you don't care what happens after season 2, then no your definately not going to like it.
I have friends that love Firefly, and hate Buffy, and vice versa. I guess I'm just a die hard Whedon fan.

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Friday, November 4, 2005 8:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by liminalosity:
Yeah, what he said.

[emphasis added]

Hey, I hope you're not talking about me, because I'm not a member of the minority sex.

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

PURPLEBELLY

Friday, November 4, 2005 9:24 AM

People like shows about sex and drugs. Those people that get BtVS is about sex and drugs like it -- those that don't, don't.

ECGORDON

Friday, November 4, 2005 12:19 PM

River, that sounds a lot like what I was saying a year or so ago. I had only caught random scenes of Buffy and Angel over the years and thought it was all too silly for my tastes. However, after Firefly, and what a lot of other people were saying here and other places, I decided to give it another chance. You have to watch the series from the beginning, and you have to complete the second season, before making your final decision. There are some weak episodes in there, but overall the writing and character development is solid. After season three then you can start watching Angel in conjunction with Buffy, because they share a common history and have several crossover eps. I like Buffy a lot, but I like Angel even more, and eventually I will purchase all the seasons of each series on DVD.

But Firefly still rules. Not only is it Joss' best show to date, IMO it is the best tv series ever created in spite of its limited run.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

SERGEANTX

Friday, November 4, 2005 1:36 PM

I had a hard time getting into Buffy myself. Part of it was just the superficial 'target audience'. As a middle aged man, I had a hard time imagining how I'd relate to a show about the tribulations of teen girls. Plus, I've never cared for 'monster' movies.

But... the show is so much more than that. It gets more obvious in the later seasons, but the monsters and most of the situations they face are thinly veiled metaphors for struggles we all face. Under the latex and kung fu, the show is really a soap opera with well developed characters struggling to find a place in the world, struggling to find 'family'. It's not that much different than Firefly in that respect.

You should definitely give it another chance.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

LIMINALOSITY

Friday, November 4, 2005 5:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by VisitingMyIntentions:
Hey, I hope you're not talking about me, because I'm not a member of the minority sex.

OMG! How sexist of my brain! Bad brain, bad!

....at least I wasn't visiting your intentions

Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

LOVOK

Friday, November 4, 2005 6:53 PM

Okay, you HAVE to see Buffy through the end of Season 2 before passing judgement. An episode in S2 called "Innocence" changed the direction the series was to take and turned into a show that could tell important stories. The string of episodes from "Innocence" to "Becoming Pt. 2" is probably the best chunk of television I'll ever see in my life. If you finish S2 and still don't like it, then you can definately drop it because you won't ever like it.

Also, the show isn't just about sex and drugs. My word, that's just *part* of the main theme of *only* Season 6.

Season 1, while not terrible, isn't great and has a lot of corny stuff in it. The plots are all pretty much horrible, but the character development it still fantastic (if you can see past the dumb plots). The middle of S2 is where the show takes off and never looks back all the way through S7.

CAPTAINCDC

Friday, November 4, 2005 7:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Eleanor:
I started watching Buffy because of people on this board--I thought it would be worth a shot since it is from Joss, after all. I find that I can enjoy it as long as I don't take it seriously. Every episode leaves me with a "yes-but what about----?" question, and it's pretty easy to find plot holes. But I just take it as lightweight entertainment and don't worry about that. The dialogue is great, and if some of the actors aren't exactly perfect, they improve over time. (I'm only on season 2 right now, though.)

Admittedly, it doesn't compare to Firefly at ALL. I can react to Firefly as though it were real. I can't really get that into any story based on a supernatural premise, and I always found vampires the least interesting of all nonexistant beasties. But I can enjoy Buffy on a shallow, fun level.

Well you are only midway through S2 right now so the best is certainly yet to come.

I would like to say however that two descriptions that definately should NEVER be applied to Buffy are "shallow" and "lightweight entertainment". I'm not saying everyone should love Buffy as much as I do (but it'd be a lot cooler if you did

), but if you think it is shallow and lightweight then you are not paying close enough attention. Buffy tells stories that all people can relate to at one time or another through metaphor. No episode is as it seems on the surface. If you think it is then you are not seeing the forest for the trees.

IMO, Buffy is the best show of all time. It's smart, funny, witty, dramatic, and touching on an emotional level unlike any other show I've ever seen. Give it a chance. Trust me everything you love about Firefly is present in Buffy in one way or another. Joss would not have had it any other way.

---------------------------------------

The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason!

HOGWAFFLE

Friday, November 4, 2005 7:48 PM

by "my show" I assume you mean firefly, which is joss's third series, one might assume someone hits their stride by the third series and is better at hooking people. But is we are doing my show, your show, my show lasted 7 seasons has gazzilions of comics and books and yet more books, and sheets,and thongs and weapon replicas made out of it so =P

I love firefly too, duh i'm here, I love all joss, joss could read me the phone book and i am sure i would love it.

ASTYANAX

Friday, November 4, 2005 8:16 PM

I watched Buffy and Angel both on DVD, start to finish, starting when both were in their last seasons (By the time I finished season 6 of Buffy, season 7 was out on DVD, if that makes sense--did have to wait a few months for the final season of Angel). Both were great. Yes, season 1 of Buffy is a little on the too humorous side, but it's also got a sweet innocence that's fun to watch again...after you have seen the events of later seasons. Season 3, especially the season finale, was great. I think Joss also had Buffy as a forum to try out new and cool things (an episode almost totally silent? A musical? Very forward thinking stuff).

Buffy is about growing up and becoming an adult. Angel is about what to do once you ARE an adult. I love them both for different reasons. Yes, overall, from what we have, Firefly is probably the "best" of the three overall (thinking writing, concept, etc.), but do give Buffy and Angel a fair try. If after watching 3 seasons of Buffy, you don't like it, fair enough--but do give it a chance.

Oddly enough, a couple of my favorite Angel episodes were in the last season. It was still great when it got cancelled. Grrrr.

Mal: "See, morbid and creepifying, I got no problem with. Long as she does it quiet like."

OPPYH

Friday, November 4, 2005 10:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
People like shows about sex and drugs. Those people that get BtVS is about sex and drugs like it -- those that don't, don't.

??? Are you talking about season 6 of Buffy?

ELEANOR

Saturday, November 5, 2005 12:24 AM

Quote:
...Well you are only midway through S2 right now so the best is certainly yet to come.

Buffy tells stories that all people can relate to at one time or another through metaphor. No episode is as it seems on the surface. If you think it is then you are not seeing the forest for the trees.

Well, I'll keep that in mind as I watch. I hadn't considered any of the events/characters metaphorically.

Quote:
Trust me everything you love about Firefly is present in Buffy in one way or another.

That's the thing. What drew me to Firefly in the first place was politics--the appeal of a story about independent and self-reliant people trying to escape an oppressive bureaucracy. I don't really see that in Buffy, although I do see alot of stuff about friendship and family which is certainly reminiscent of Firefly.

I think the reason Buffy feels shallow to me (the show, not the character) is that it is so often concerned with high school crap which, thank God, I don't have to care about any more. Maybe I would enjoy it more if I were younger.

"Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out." –Cardinal Wolsey

DRU

Saturday, November 5, 2005 2:10 AM

The first time I saw the BTVS movie was on TV and I thought it was ok, nothing great. Many years later, at the Flashback Convention in Park Ridge they played the movie at the Pickwick Theatre, where I saw it again. It was very bad.

As for the TV series, I enjoyed both Buffy and Angel. The episode "The Pack" is my favorite episode of the first season. I knew it was going to be a different show, with what happen to the Principal

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Saturday, November 5, 2005 6:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by liminalosity:
Quote:
Originally posted by VisitingMyIntentions:
Hey, I hope you're not talking about me, because I'm not a member of the minority sex.

OMG! How sexist of my brain! Bad brain, bad!

....at least I wasn't visiting your intentions

Be glad of that. Be very glad.

I disagree with the people who say you should watch it from the beginning. I think you can skip season 1 if you want to (although I wouldn't), but whether you do or not, I advise with first watching an episode from a later season. The first episode of Buffy I ever saw was Wish, from season 3, and that impressed me with the worth of the series enough to want to watch it all. If I had started with season 1 I might have given it up as another 'Charmed' knock-off.

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

RIVER6213

Saturday, November 5, 2005 7:57 PM

Well, I keep trying to take all your words for this show, and I keep watching it; i'm into the 4th season now, but I still think its the dumbest show on the face of the earth.

I simply don't understand how trash like Buffy stayed on the air for so long and primo shows like Firefly gets the axe in short order after only 14 episodes; it numbs the mind.

The fact that Buffy the vampire Slayer has such a huge following also blows me away; what's the matter with you people? This show is meant for pre-puberty types, that's the only thing I can think of that would make it popular. I can't imagine anyone over 18 liking it very much.

I really am sorry for knocking your show; its very clear to me that you people love it very much, and in a way I am jealous because you got season after season of Buffy, and I only got 14 episodes of my show, and then kicked to the curb...and when I really thought it was all over, I got a movie, just to find out that it was just put together so Joss could afford to make Wonder Woman; I am so angry and this crap is SO unfair

I hope he screws up Wonder Woman.

Its actually rather evil when you think of it. There is not much to shake a stick at on television, but every now and then something intelligent comes on the boob-tube and thats when I take an interests in it, just to have it yanked off the air and replaced with some thoughtless garbage.

I hate all of life and I especially hate Joss, who seems to get off playing with people heads.

This is all so depressing...I'm going back to bed.

River steps away from the table...

ECGORDON

Saturday, November 5, 2005 8:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
The fact that Buffy the vampire Slayer has such a huge following also blows me away; what's the matter with you people? This show is meant for pre-puberty types, that's the only thing I can think of that would make it popular. I can't imagine anyone over 18 liking it very much.

To each his own I guess. I am a male 55 years old, and I like Buffy and Angel quite a bit. Firefly is my favorite series of all time, but I think Angel is definitely on my top 10 list, and Buffy very nearly is. So you don't like it, fine, but it doesn't alter my opinion.

WHISPER

Saturday, November 5, 2005 8:15 PM

If you hate so much after watching four seasons of it why are you still watching it? Obviously it's not your thing, which is fine.

You shouldn't call it "trash" though, because it really isn't. You may not like the show, but it isn't "crap." If it was I don't think there would be classes at universities dedicated to disecting the metaphors and deeper meanings of this one little show.

I understand that you didn't like it, and not everyone does, but please don't insult it.

Want Firefly/ Serenity/ BtVS/ Angel desktop wallpapers? Take a look at the ones I've created at:
http://www.whispergraphics.org
Now hosting the Firefly Extended Gagreel

RIVER6213

Saturday, November 5, 2005 11:00 PM

I didnt say I hated it, I said I didnt like it all that much and was confused why people liked it.

STAKETHELURK

Saturday, November 5, 2005 11:10 PM

I’m sorry you don’t care for the show, River6213, but you’re coming off a bit too combative here. The show you claim is “made for pre-puberty types” sure has attracted a lot of attention from University Professors analyzing its impressive exploration of philosophy, religion, and the human through its metaphors. Don’t believe me? Check out Slayage: The Online International Journal of Buffy Studies, http://www.slayage.tv. Just because you can’t see the depth, the meaning, the realism, doesn’t mean it’s not there. So it’s not your cup of tea, that’s fine. But “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” is not without merit for audiences of all ages.

And I think your understanding of the situation regarding Whedon’s other projects is very misinformed. Whedon did not make Serenity just so he could do Wonder Woman. Universal bought the film rights to “Firefly” in September 2003, Serenity was officially greenlit in March 2004. Filming for Serenity began in May, I think, and was over by early September 2004. Serenity was already *filmed* when the rumors about Wonder Woman started swirling (December 2004). Whedon did not officially accept the Wonder Woman project until March 2005. So, the two projects have nothing to do with each other; Whedon didn’t made Serenity so he could go on to greater things--he made Serenity because he loves the universe, the characters, the story, and the browncoats. And he decided to do Wonder Woman because there was no fixed release date for the film, no deadline--so that he would still have time to be involved in other projects, like a Serenity sequel or the proposed Buffyverse telemovies (though I guess now they might be direct-to-DVD). So, Joss made the BDM out of his love for it, not for jaded career-advancement--and he has deliberately kept his schedule open, holding back his career, so he can be able to return to the ‘verse if the opportunity presents itself. I really feel your “hatred” of this guy--who time and time again has come through for the browncoats--is misplaced.

And remember, if Wonder Woman does well, Joss could get enough clout to help push through his other proects--like more of the ‘verse.

HOWARD

Saturday, November 5, 2005 11:35 PM

The first season was really only like a half
season.

The production values get a major boost
from the start of Season 3 when they first
started shooting 35mm instead of 16mm.

This was now a grown-up show with a grown-up
budget for a grown-up audience.

For me the Buffy/Angel verse is one great
epic and the best fictional creation of the
second half of the 20th century.

It achieved an entire understandable world
in a way that The X-files NEVER did and in fact
Chris Carter screwd his audience in a way Joss
at least on TV never did.

CYBERSNARK

Sunday, November 6, 2005 12:45 AM

For those who don't like the high school aspects, that starts to drop off around season. . . 5? 6? Whenever, but they do graduate and end up having to face adulthood.

And, frankly, anyone who claims to have gotten through high school without being traumatized and/or mentally scarred is probably lying, so there should be at least some sympathy. (Unless you were lucky enough to be one of the Cool Kids, in which case. . . well, just go away. ;) )

Plus, even in the high school days, there's Giles, who could just about carry his own show (especially with Xander as his comedic sidekick).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Sunday, November 6, 2005 1:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
For those who don't like the high school aspects, that starts to drop off around season. . . 5? 6? Whenever, but they do graduate and end up having to face adulthood.

And, frankly, anyone who claims to have gotten through high school without being traumatized and/or mentally scarred is probably lying, so there should be at least some sympathy. (Unless you were lucky enough to be one of the Cool Kids, in which case. . . well, just go away. ;) )

Plus, even in the high school days, there's Giles, who could just about carry his own show (especially with Xander as his comedic sidekick).

Also, I would say that "high school" is just a setting. If anyone actually attends a high school anything like they are shown on film, I feel very sorry for them... To me, the show being set in a high school is similar to a show set in an office: just a way to get the desired characters into the same setting and have them interact.

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

RITAK7

Sunday, November 6, 2005 4:00 AM

it's wonderful if you like mythology, the axiomatic savior who confronts the dark and dank evil that threatens us all-only the dark and dank things have faboo personalities and delightful oneliners! One of my favorite things about the series is how it takes..well it twisted and funny and joyously warped ex. the covert government agency which tracks hunts and traps demons vampires all the baddies and attempts to harness their powers as a weapon well then they tred across Buffy the Vampire slayers path of course there is awe disbelief etc. that a tiny chick is taking care of all this bad business and the head of the covert operation says to her 'ithought you we're a myth and Buffy's response 'well you were myth-taken' oh how drole pardon my blithering i just took a sleeping pill and i should be sleeping rather than typing goodnight!

RIVER6213

Sunday, November 6, 2005 4:14 PM

Okay, I'll take all of your words for it, and I'll continue to watch it; I bought all the season sets, so maybe I'll start to see what the fuss is all about.
As a brunette you can understand that I STILL have a problem with a thin, 90LB blonde gurl who kicks the crap out of 250LB guys while subjecting them to cheesy oneliners.
Oh, by the way, it did sort of bother me when i went to the video store and ask the storeguy where I could find Buffy the Vampire slayer....he said, "Its in our Buffy section"

Buffy has her OWN SECTION?!

HOGWAFFLE

Sunday, November 6, 2005 4:54 PM

well you shouldnt buy the sets if you dont think they're all that good tis jsut gonna piss you off more, and I am truly sorry firefly only got 14 episodes, because i think it would have been the best of his shows. but to be so meant o all of us who love something, and Joss and everyone is just wrong, stop being depressing and go away

RIVER6213

Sunday, November 6, 2005 5:05 PM

Am I being mean to you guys? My intentions was not to be mean, and if I come off as being mean, please forgive me; I'm sorry.

IAMALEAFONTHEWIND

Sunday, November 6, 2005 5:59 PM

I hate to say it, but I'm with you River. I think it's hard on those of us who's introduction to Joss was Firefly. That show is the result of all the experience Joss gained by doing the first two shows. It is very polished and well written. Better yet, it is very well directed and the 'Verse seems to follow a stricter guideline of rules.

I'm almost done watching season 1 of Buffy and so far I have been impressed with Joss's dialogue but that's about it. The directing so far is terrible and the amount of "conveniencies" that are employed in order for the premise to work makes me laugh. I don't mean to, but that's what it makes me do. I kind of feel that if the directing and acting were up to the writing it would be so much better. It would even make the conveniencies easier to take.

But I hear everybody talking about sticking with it, so I'm gonna, through Season 3, then I'll decide whether or not to watch the rest.

I suppose Zander is my favorite character so far. He's kinda like the Wash of the Buffy 'verse.

And even though Buffy hasn't captured my heart as of yet, I still find it very interesting from the standpoint that you're watching the evolution of a great talent. Joss's "voice" can be clearly heard right from the pilot episode. I noticed that he directed the last episode of season 1. I'm assuming that's the first time he directed anything. I'm excited to watch that episode and see if he can manage to bring more out of the actors. And I'm guessing that he directs more frequently as he gets his director's feet under him. I think that will help the show (for me), so that's another reason why I'm sticking with it.

One other thing: I don't think River was being mean at all. He/she had an honest question - the same one I've had - and he/she just wanted to see if some answers from the fans could help him/her some. Don't be so fragile, people.

And at least have a little sympathy for us new fans to the Joss world: Firefly is just so damned perfect. It's hard to backtrack from that. Very hard.

Listen, I always grew up a big Star Wars fan. I have even enjoyed the new trilogy where most people have not. It is flawed, as are most things, but still has lots of enjoyable moments. But Firefly/Serenity has changed even my love for Star Wars. Firefly/Serentiy has just been maintained at such a high level so far that it makes me less willing to compromise for other things. I bought Episode III the other day on DVD and haven't even opened it up. I'd just rather watch Firefly.

That's how good Firefly/Serenity is, and it's hard for anything else to live up to it, even other Joss Whedon creations.

"I don't wanna explode."

RIVER6213

Sunday, November 6, 2005 6:05 PM

I did the same thing!
I bought episode III of Star wars and I didnt even open it up, matter of fact, when I got home, I ended up watching Firefly the Complete Series again!

I still havent opened it up yet now that I think about it!

And by the way, I'm a "she"

STAKETHELURK

Sunday, November 6, 2005 7:35 PM

Quote:
I think it's hard on those of us who's introduction to Joss was Firefly. That show is the result of all the experience Joss gained by doing the first two shows. It is very polished and well written. Better yet, it is very well directed and the 'Verse seems to follow a stricter guideline of rules.

Well, that just goes to show that everyone has different reactions. “Firefly” was the first Joss Whedon program I ever saw, but after it was cancelled I went on to watch his other two shows--and absolutely *loved* them. Indeed, my favorite show that he made is not “Firefly,” but “Angel.” So, it’s too much a generalization to say that all those who first saw “Firefly” have a hard time adjusting to the Buffyverse.

Imaleafonthewind, it sounds like you haven’t finished season one yet. I’m glad you plan to stick it out, because the first season of any Whedon show is always the shakiest, with them still figuring out all the dynamics. (Think about that for a moment. It’s a trend in all Whedon shows, which means that had “Firefly” continued, it would have gotten even better its sophomore year and the browncoats would be warning prospective converts that “you have to get through season one before you really get to the good stuff.” Although the 14 episodes we have are all brilliant, they would seem weak in comparison to later seasons. Damn FOX!)

As for “Prophecy Girl,” that was Joss’ directorial debut. He’s described BtVS as something of a film school the public could watch because he was using the series to learn how to direct (and later other writers on the show got into the director’s chair, too, and did great things). “Prophecy Girl” is probably the best ep of season and was a sign of better things to come in the next season. In the first season, Joss only really had two good writers, himself & David Greenwalt, resulting in some less-than-stellar episodes. He also had to deal with directors who really didn’t know how to handle the material--the Joss usual of having scenes shift from one genre to another; drama to horror to comedy. Very difficult to light and film a scene that has to be scary, then funny, then scary, then dramatic. And the directors weren’t entirely receptive to his suggestions because, until “Prophecy Girl,” he’d never directed before (and he’d never run a show before, either). So, there will be definite improvement in the next season. And tell me again about the “bad directing” once you’ve seen “Hush” and “Restless;” once Whedon and the writers get control over direction things get really brilliant. As for the “conveniences” you mention, I’m not sure what you mean but I can guess about a couple of them (let me know if I’m off). In the two part premiere, Joss establishes that people rationalize away anything that challenges their perception of what is “real.” Some people have trouble with that idea, but I personally think it makes perfect sense. Folks see something weird but shake it off as a trick of the light all the time; it’s just that idea taken a little further. It’s also a classic device of horror, the people unable to see the monsters until it’s too late. It is also a metaphor into the teen mindset; the parents and adults (except Giles) are basically clueless about how the real world works but the teens see reality for what it is. And if you’re wondering why the police aren’t more on top of things, wait until Seasons Two and Three; they explain the situation much better.

And your comment of “a stricter guideline of rules” is interesting. The Buffyverse does have a strict set of rules (see www.atpobtvs.com for the Metaphysics section), the thing is that the rules basically allow virtually anything to be possible--one way or another. But there are still very strict rules. Vampires can and can’t do certain things. Magic can and can’t do certain things (can’t heal, can’t resurrect after a “natural death”). Prophecies always come true--but they can be manipulated. And there is some other stuff, too.

River6213, maybe you’re just not looking for the right things in the series. I’ll

HOGWAFFLE

Sunday, November 6, 2005 11:26 PM

"I simply don't understand how trash like Buffy stayed on the air for so long and primo shows like Firefly gets the axe in short order after only 14 episodes; it numbs the mind.

The fact that Buffy the vampire Slayer has such a huge following also blows me away; what's the matter with you people? This show is meant for pre-puberty types, that's the only thing I can think of that would make it popular. I can't imagine anyone over 18 liking it very much."

I think there are some very mean things being said in there. i understand that she may not like the show as much as firefly, but knowing there are people here who do might make a more firendly person not call the show trash and continuosly post how odd it is such crap has such a following. I have been told the same thing about my devotion to firefly.

i just get sick of people ranting on about how much something sucks. go post about how awesome firefly is, how cool this one episode was instead its a healthier happier way to pass the time.

RIVER6213

Sunday, November 6, 2005 11:44 PM

Hogwaffle,
Thanks for posting that.

Sorry for calling Buffy the Vampire slayer "trash"

Please don't be mad at me Just because I dont have such huge opinion of Buffy right at the moment! My opinion doesnt mean its not a good show; it just means that I havent come to a conclusion yet based on what I have seen so far. Its just my opinion, its not written in rock yet.

I'm watching all the seasons in the DVD series that they have available (I bought them all and it was expensive, and Buffy has her own section) and I'm bound to run into an episode I like, but that hasnt happened yet.

I'm doing this BECAUSE of all the posts that some of you wrote about the show that made want to look at each episode and season of Buffy. And the fact that Joss wrote them all makes me HAVE too look at all the episodes.

So please dont be mad at me for having some early opinions, I don't mean anything by it.

P.S. There are some things about Firefly that suck also, but the good parts outweigh the bad parts. That sound fair too you?

NWUKSTEVE

Monday, November 7, 2005 12:45 AM

Ok, there's a lot of opinions already been given, and one more by me is probably not gonna sway any one, but here it is anyway. I rate Buffy among my all-time favourite shows. I didn't fall in love with it straight away, but I did like it enough to keep watching, though I did miss the odd ep at first (this was before PVRs). By about midway through S2, it became must-watch TV.

However, I DON'T align myself with those numerous fans who think the show is good because of all the metaphors and allegories and what-not that it apparently contains. I enjoy the eps because they are entertaining, and the dialogue is so very, VERY funny.

If you've reached season 4 (which is without a doubt my favourite season no matter what the purists say) and still don't like the show, then I think you should give up.

I still remain convinced that the only reason the show didn't get more critical acclaim is because too many people didn't even give it a chance. But you obviously have, and NO show is going to appeal to absolutely everyone.

MER

Monday, November 7, 2005 12:51 AM

I dunno I just do.

First came the movie, I've always wanted to see it b/c I knew it would be terrible or hooky. MER loves her hooky stuff.

Then came the series. I watched the series b/c I love the movie.

So all in all, if you don't like hooky, chances are you won't like Buffy. One of my friends lsughed at the idea of the Buffyverse as being rather silly. And it is, but basically you have to buy into the fact that it's their world and it's real to them.

Oh and having the liking of horror in general helps.

HOGWAFFLE

Monday, November 7, 2005 3:11 AM

i dont care if you hate buffy like death itself=) i'm just saying lets not continually post about it. i hope that you do find something you like about it in the end, especially since u bought it all!

TORTIMER

Monday, November 7, 2005 4:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I simply don't understand how trash like Buffy stayed on the air for so long and primo shows like Firefly gets the axe in short order after only 14 episodes; it numbs the mind.

The fact that Buffy the vampire Slayer has such a huge following also blows me away; what's the matter with you people? This show is meant for pre-puberty types, that's the only thing I can think of that would make it popular. I can't imagine anyone over 18 liking it very much.

I also love Firefly and think it is one of the best TV series of all time. I'm a 57 year old male and figured I would try Buffy/Angel after watching my DVD set of Firefly maybe 6-7 times. I watched the 1st season of Buffy and thought it was just ok. I really liked only 3-4 episodes. It was about half way through the 2nd season and something just clicked for me. I now think Buffy is my favorite TV series of all time. I remember when Buffy was originally broadcast. I didn't gave it a chance because it never seemed like my type of show. I'm currently almost done with season 3 of Buffy and IMHO it's great. I was a little embarrassed when I first went to my local video store and asked where the Buffy/Angel DVD's were located. Now after having watching almost all of the 2nd and 3rd season of Buffy I also have more appreciation for the 1st season. I'm so happy I tried Buffy/Angel because now I have 4 more seasons of Buffy to watch and 5 seasons of Angel. I'm so addicted and loving every episode.

RIVER6213

Monday, November 7, 2005 4:16 AM

I'm sorry, sorry, sorry! I'll never say anything bad about BTVS again okay???

IAMALEAFONTHEWIND

Monday, November 7, 2005 9:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
Quote:
Imaleafonthewind, it sounds like you haven’t finished season one yet. I’m glad you plan to stick it out, because the first season of any Whedon show is always the shakiest, with them still figuring out all the dynamics. (Think about that for a moment. It’s a trend in all Whedon shows, which means that had “Firefly” continued, it would have gotten even better its sophomore year and the browncoats would be warning prospective converts that “you have to get through season one before you really get to the good stuff.” Although the 14 episodes we have are all brilliant, they would seem weak in comparison to later seasons. Damn FOX!)

If Firefly were to get any better I think my head would explode. But that's just me. I dunno why but for some reason that show (and movie) clicked with me like no television show ever has before. I generally tend to not be a TV guy because I feel that it never quite manages to live up to the quality of a film, but Firefly seems to be the exception to the rule for me. The first couple of seasons of West Wing were up there, but hey, how can the white house compete with spaceships (heh heh)?

Quote:
As for “Prophecy Girl,” that was Joss’ directorial debut. He’s described BtVS as something of a film school the public could watch because he was using the series to learn how to direct (and later other writers on the show got into the director’s chair, too, and did great things). “Prophecy Girl” is probably the best ep of season and was a sign of better things to come in the next season. In the first season, Joss only really had two good writers, himself & David Greenwalt, resulting in some less-than-stellar episodes. He also had to deal with directors who really didn’t know how to handle the material--the Joss usual of having scenes shift from one genre to another; drama to horror to comedy. Very difficult to light and film a scene that has to be scary, then funny, then scary, then dramatic. And the directors weren’t entirely receptive to his suggestions because, until “Prophecy Girl,” he’d never directed before (and he’d never run a show before, either). So, there will be definite improvement in the next season. And tell me again about the “bad directing” once you’ve seen “Hush” and “Restless;” once Whedon and the writers get control over direction things get really brilliant. As for the “conveniences” you mention, I’m not sure what you mean but I can guess about a couple of them (let me know if I’m off). In the two part premiere, Joss establishes that people rationalize away anything that challenges their perception of what is “real.” Some people have trouble with that idea, but I personally think it makes perfect sense. Folks see something weird but shake it off as a trick of the light all the time; it’s just that idea taken a little further. It’s also a classic device of horror, the people unable to see the monsters until it’s too late. It is also a metaphor into the teen mindset; the parents and adults (except Giles) are basically clueless about how the real world works but the teens see reality for what it is. And if you’re wondering why the police aren’t more on top of things, wait until Seasons Two and Three; they explain the situation much better.

Thanks for explaining this stuff. You seem to know where I'm coming from with my two cents. Yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to watching the one that Joss directed. I get the feeling that even though it's his first time directing, he knows what he wants and what is lost in translation between him and the other directors will no longer be a problem. I swear, as I watch them I sit there thinking "oh, that's a clever line - so Joss - but boy the director really failed to get the actor to pull it off." I have total confidence that it will get continually better, so forward I go.

As for the conveniences, I'm referring to much more simplistic things. Nothing so deep I don't think. And they don't make me hate the show; they just make me laugh. Partly it's Joss lear

IATNE

Monday, November 7, 2005 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by VisitingMyIntentions:

If I had started with season 1 I might have given it up as another 'Charmed' knock-off.

I can't believe that no ones picked up on this but charmed was a knock of of buffy. Buffy predates charmed by about two seasons.

I love Buffy but I personally like to pretend that most of season six never existed and I haven't seen most of season seven yet. any episode with Angelus in is always worth watching. the last half of season two is the best.

She made me feel human, thats not something you just forget

SUPERDUCKYWHO

Monday, November 7, 2005 11:37 AM

You know, i didn't much care for it either. I remember I really did like the first and possibly the second season, but after that it all started to get too much like a soap opera... and then they kept killing her and bringing her back. I think it started to go wrong whin they started having less comedic releif and more relationship drama.

I mean, it all got kind of old. Angel, sort of the same thing, though I stuck with that one until I left to college. Like I said, more bits of comic releif there.

::waves:: HI!!!

MAL4PREZ

Monday, November 7, 2005 2:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I'm sorry, sorry, sorry! I'll never say anything bad about BTVS again okay???

River -

I think you should say whatever you want!

But ... if you get through season 4 and you still don't like it, I'll be happy to take those DVDs off your hands.

All this discussion makes me want to watch the whole Buffy series again, and I no longer have TiVo to record it for me!

go run your little world

RITAK7

Wednesday, November 9, 2005 7:16 AM

thanks for trusting me even though i wrote axiomatic rather than arechtype i do think you will dig the show there are some pretty priceless lines. one of my favorites is when willow is attacked by a vampire-won't give too much away-he is unable to bit her and is enourmously frustrated she get's all super sensitive insecurelike and says oh i get it im not hte kind of girl a vampire likes to sink his teeth into. it's always like oh your like a sister tro me or youre such a good friend]
and i am a 6'2 brunette 185 lbs of ass kick so i feel your pain about the 90lb thing-but i was lifting weigths with a friend the other dayshe's about 5'3 110 she presses 385 on the incline leg press just as much as i do so you never know

DISKA

Wednesday, November 9, 2005 5:12 PM

my two pence on the subject...

i watched buffy when it was first aired in the uk when i had just finished high school and the series ended as i finished university. the first series was great although looking back now i can see major faults with it, but i understand it had a role to play and hadnt been allowed to properly develop yet, the forumla for buffy that we all know and love took *time*.

i watched every episode every week without fail for many years and grew with the characters, followed the ever increasing in-jokes,and learned the complex rules of the buffy verse and regard it as one of my favourite shows ever. it has meant more to me thatn anything i have really seen on tv.

firefly i only discovered recently and its apparant that joss learned a thing or two with buffy. i think i love firelfy just the same, and have fallen in love with the characters and dialogue, but im here to defend buffy... to discount buffy based on its first or even second series is wrong. also not liking it cuz the protganist is a 90lb blonde is wrong because there is so much more to it than that.

also dont force it if you really dont like it. like i said my experience was an episode a week for a few years, and the buffy verse can get pretty complex, so buying all the box sets and watching it all in one go and expecting to be entertained is maybe not realistic.

i dont know if i really have a point except that i love buffy and firefly almost equally

"Dear diary: Today I was pompous and my sister was crazy. Today we were kidnapped by hill folk, never to be seen again. It was the best day ever."

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Thursday, November 10, 2005 7:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I'm sorry, sorry, sorry! I'll never say anything bad about BTVS again okay???

You can say anything you like about Buffy--it's your opinion, and if you don't like it, well, that's how it is.

But the reason you are getting some criticism is the way you dismissed it: you called a show liked by many many people on this site "trash" and then proceeded to call all those people "pre-pubescent" and demanded to know "what was the matter with them". That is rude and trollish.

There is nothing wrong with saying you dislike Buffy, but say it in a polite way.

Quote:
Originally posted by iatne:
Quote:
Originally posted by VisitingMyIntentions:

If I had started with season 1 I might have given it up as another 'Charmed' knock-off.

I can't believe that no ones picked up on this but charmed was a knock of of buffy. Buffy predates charmed by about two seasons.

I imagine some producers saw season 1 and thought, "Oh! Maybe we can do this too!" ...And yet, they never got any better than that over the years, while Buffy exploded with talent.

"it has some sweet character deaths -- I mean moments!" - Joss Whedon

RITAK7

Friday, November 11, 2005 1:51 AM

Where on this post does the original thread poster call Buffy trash and goes on in a negative vein? I didn't see it in her first post maybe i am just reading selectively

ECGORDON

Friday, November 11, 2005 2:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ritak7:
Where on this post does the original thread poster call Buffy trash and goes on in a negative vein? I didn't see it in her first post maybe i am just reading selectively

Here's her third post on this thread:

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Well, I keep trying to take all your words for this show, and I keep watching it; i'm into the 4th season now, but I still think its the dumbest show on the face of the earth.

I simply don't understand how trash like Buffy stayed on the air for so long and primo shows like Firefly gets the axe in short order after only 14 episodes; it numbs the mind.

The fact that Buffy the vampire Slayer has such a huge following also blows me away; what's the matter with you people? This show is meant for pre-puberty types, that's the only thing I can think of that would make it popular. I can't imagine anyone over 18 liking it very much.

I really am sorry for knocking your show; its very clear to me that you people love it very much, and in a way I am jealous because you got season after season of Buffy, and I only got 14 episodes of my show, and then kicked to the curb...and when I really thought it was all over, I got a movie, just to find out that it was just put together so Joss could afford to make Wonder Woman; I am so angry and this crap is SO unfair

I hope he screws up Wonder Woman.

Its actually rather evil when you think of it. There is not much to shake a stick at on television, but every now and then something intelligent comes on the boob-tube and thats when I take an interests in it, just to have it yanked off the air and replaced with some thoughtless garbage.

I hate all of life and I especially hate Joss, who seems to get off playing with people heads.

This is all so depressing...I'm going back to bed.

River steps away from the table...

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

GORRAMREAVERS

Friday, November 11, 2005 8:22 PM

Disliking the show is fine by me. I think its great and it is my all time fav but you dont have to agree.

However...the the bashing and rude comments we can do without (and really isnt what this site is about and stands for...not what joss's shows stand for..for that matter). How this thread hasnt been thrown into the 'trolls' pile is amazing. I think this person is just trying to cause a ruckus.

"..it is my very favorite gun."

OPPYH

Friday, November 11, 2005 10:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Well, I keep trying to take all your words for this show, and I keep watching it; i'm into the 4th season now, but I still think its the dumbest show on the face of the earth.

Looks like you wasted your money buying all the seasons of Buffy. If your into season 4, and still haven't found an episode you actually liked, or enjoyed. your just not gonna "get" the show, or what makes it so great. Seasons 2-3 are the best of all the seasons, but then again that's just my opinion. Maybe you should try Angel instead. Good luck.

RIVER6213

Saturday, November 12, 2005 12:26 AM

If you read further up, you would find me saying that I was sorry. Can't you guys let this go?

HYDRAGON

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 1:21 AM

You know, it's odd. The first time I ever actually sat down and watched Buffy -- The MOVIE, mind you -- I was in love. I just fell in love with everything about Buffy. I mean, it's pretty obvious that the director didn't take Joss' script very seriously, and the movie could definitely have been better, it's still wha brought me to the TV show. From episode 1 to episode 144, I've been hooked I wasn't even dissappointed about the ending, it ended so well. My only real regret was that Season 1 was only 12 episodes long instead of 22. Here's how I think of the three shows on teh awesomeness scale.:

Buffy the Vampire Slayer: 100.1%
Firefly: 100%
Angel: 99.9999999999999999999 etc.%

RIVER6213

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:44 PM

Well, I purchased ALL the Buffy DVD sets and watched them all. That took some time but I was successful.

BTVS is a good show if you watch it long enough, and the characters are likeable....some of them are even lovable.

I've learn to LOVE the main charcter played as Buffy. She is so cute, so wise, and quite courageous for a little, 90 LBS white girl, and they have her kicking butt all over the place, which suits me just fine. She reminds me of a SANE River who just happens to be blonde.

Good show, and I now understand why people like it, but as good as it is, it still isnt my cup of tea, so I'm now gonna sell my whole Buffy, DVD collection on EBAY.

So, would it be worth it to start buying up Angel DVDs, or do you think I've gathered enough data?

Have a nice day Mrs McFly.

XENOPROBE

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:12 PM

You know... my parents actually started avidly watching Buffy before I did- and I was 30 at the time!

For them, the writing and performances were what drew them in. My mother especially loved the Spike/Dru dynamic and my dad just loved all the silly humour. (In fact, my family's house is so Buffy-centric that they named their dog Xander!)

The only reason why I resisted Buffy for so long was because I was deeply embroiled in my then X-Files obsession. I simply couldn't commit to another high-quality show. I had seen many episodes out of context and had enjoyed them but when I finally did go 'all in' I was sunk... forever. Buffy will always be the best thing that ever happened to television (that didn't get cancelled!)

Strike that.

Joss is, hands down, the best thing that ever happened to television!

There are some truly exceptional episodes of BtVS, but I agree that, for the best effect and impact, the show should be watched in sequence. It is so much more than just a show about teens, highschool, sex and drugs and the like... it is angst, joy, bonding... it captures all of the nuances of life's hard lessons. Plus, find me somene who didn't, at some point, think their high school was on a hell-mouth!

I am always pleased to know that people of all ages and walks of life have found haven in the Buffy-verse... there's no place like it!

~*~*~*~*~*~

Ching-wah TSAO duh liou mahng. Shiny.

STAKETHELURK

Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by River6213:
Good show, and I now understand why people like it, but as good as it is, it still isnt my cup of tea, so I'm now gonna sell my whole Buffy, DVD collection on EBAY.

So, would it be worth it to start buying up Angel DVDs, or do you think I've gathered enough data?

I’m glad that you watched the whole series and enjoyed it, even if it wasn’t something you want to hold onto. I do think you should give “Angel” a try--bearing in mind that like “Buffy” it has something of a shaky start (IMO). “Angel” is, in my opinion, an example of what a spin-off should be: its own show. It takes the mythology and the genre twisting sensibility of “Buffy,” then goes off in a radically different direction from the parent series.

It takes a while for Joss & Co to figure out how to make it work, but by the end of the first season they’ve found their footing, which led them to the spectacular second season. If you do go in for it (which I heartily recommend), stick around until at least the second season (the first season has a lot of good stuff in it and needs to be seen to understand the series, but it’s not their best). It’s hard to pick favorites, but I was more emotionally invested in “Angel” than any of Joss’ other shows; it has such a dark, operatic quality to it that I really dug. So, do give it a whirl, it won’t disappoint.

Plus, you’ll want to see Summer Glau’s magnificent guest role in the third season (which lead to Joss casting her as River) and Adam Baldwin’s awesome turn as one of the series’ great villains in season five.

LONGLOSTBRISTOW

Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:24 PM

I simply don't understand how trash like Buffy stayed on the air for so long and primo shows like Firefly gets the axe in short order after only 14 episodes; it numbs the mind.

Two words: Network. Support.

The longevity of Buffy/Angel has to do not only with fan support but also with how much the network believes in and supports the project(s). FOX, unlike The WB at times, has the tendency to cancel shows when they don't produce the numbers as quickly as they hoped for. FOX doesn't like to let things grow on their own terms. It's happened before Firefly and it's bound to happen again. Let's not forget the Friday night timeslot and order of episodes

Buffy will always be #1 of the Jossverse for me, with Firefly/Serenity at #2 and Angel at #3.

-Meg

AGENTROUKA

Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:28 PM

For what it's worth, Buffy and Angel never did much for me either. Angel I preferred to Buffy because... well, Buffy wasn't much in it.

But Firefly hit me like a freight train of deliciousness.

Basically: One Joss show does not the other equal.

WHAMMY

Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:26 PM

Quote:
FOX doesn't like to let things grow on their own terms. It's happened before Firefly and it's bound to happen again.

A sudden, irresistible urge to quote Family Guy's opening scene, after being uncancelled (which I'm sure has been quoted here before):

Quote:
Peter: Everybody I've got bad news. We've been cancelled.
Lois: Oh no, Peter! How could they do that?
Peter: Well, unfortunately, Lois, there's just no more room on the schedule. We've just got to accept the fact that FOX has to make room for terrific shows like Dark Angel, Titus, Undeclared, Action, That 80's Show, Wonderfalls, Fast Lane, Andy Richter Controls The Universe, Skin, Girl's Club, Cracking Up, The Pitts, Firefly, Get Real, Freaky Links, Wanda At Large, Costello, The Lone Gunmen, A Minute with Stan Hooper, Normal Ohio, Pasadena, Harsh Realm, Keen Eddy, The Street, American Embassy, Cedric The Entertainer, The Tick, Louie, And Greg The Bunny....
Lois: Is there no hope?
Peter: Well I suppose if ALL those shows go down the tubes we might have a shot.
(Cue opening credits.)

JONUS

Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:27 PM

I just don't find an anorexic-looking chick killing vampires that appealing. No offense to the Buffy fans.

Mal would kick Han Solo's ass.

RIVER6213

Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jonus:
I just don't find an anorexic-looking chick killing vampires that appealing. No offense to the Buffy fans.

Mal would kick Han Solo's ass.

Mal WOULD kick Han Solo's azz, but Han's Wookie would make short work of Mal and Zoe.

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Monday, January 30, 2006 1:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jonus:
I just don't find an anorexic-looking chick killing vampires that appealing. No offense to the Buffy fans.

For the record, pre-season 4, the BtVS women actually had flesh. I suspect it was an encounter with a rare but dangerous fat-sucking monster over the summer after graduation that cursed them all to eternal skelletude. ...Or maybe Xander just stole it all.

Mal and Zoe would definitely be smart enough to shoot the huge non-verbal gun-wielding sasquatch first. Deal with puny human second.

"it has some sweet character deaths -- I mean moments!" - Joss Whedon

LILKAYLEE29

Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:49 AM

Buffy is about growing up and finding out who you are, and deciding if the "you" that you have grown into is the person that you can be proud of being and can make the world a better place.

It's about family, not just the one you are born into, but the one you make with the friends that you have all around you.

It's also about finding your personal strength while "fighting and defeating" your personal and (In Buffy's case)fictional demons.

Angel is similar to Buffy only with a more adult storyline, darker tone, and more action filled as he and several other characters are seeking redemption for bad things they have done in the past.

If you are a fan of any of Joss's work, then you know it is going to be a very emotionally powerful, addictive, hilarious, and satisfying experience.

Give it another try, maybe you haven't watched some of the fan favorite episodes yet. Check the threads for the favs, you might just find yourself quickly changing your mind.

I'm a leaf on the wind....Watch how I soar.

Wash: Captain, don't you know kissin' girls makes ya sleepy? Mal: Sometimes I just can't help myself.

LILKAYLEE29

Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:42 AM

Please lets try not to put down the characters or actors. It is very disrespectful of Joss and the actors, and us Buffyverse fans and potential fans as well. This thread should be strictly for fans and people generally curious about Buffy. Don't forget that most of us also adore Firefly and Joss Whedon as well. No more hateful posts, please.

I'm a leaf on the wind....Watch how I soar.

Wash: Captain, don't you know kissin' girls makes ya sleepy? Mal: Sometimes I just can't help myself.

RIVER6213

Monday, February 20, 2006 10:13 PM

*** Place swear word here ***

TMURRIE

Monday, February 20, 2006 10:17 PM

Spike is the greatest character ever created by Joss.

CLJOHNSTON108

Thursday, November 30, 2006 10:56 PM

I'd rented the movie back when it first came out on video and, while there were a few clever bits, I stuck it into the "Bad Movie Bin" at the back of my mind.

When I saw that it had been turned into a TV series, I chuckled and ignored it.

About a year later, I was carpooling with a guy, who announced, "Well, I'm hopelessly addicted to Buffy!"

I shot him a look, "You're kiddin' me, right? The show that's based on that crappy movie?"

He shot me a look back, "Dude. No. The show's totally different..." and proceeded to tell me about ... Joss!

A few days later, I channel-surfed into "Innocence" and I've been hooked ever since!
(Alas, I was only able to watch the rest of S2 and all of S3 before I swore off television altogether.)

I just bought Season 1 on DVD, and I have to say, even at it's worst, Buffy's still better than most other shows out there!

What I love is how there's humor in even the darkest, most intense scenes, which seems more "real" than those works pegged as "drama".

Real people crack wise in tough times.

Joss has said he likes to hire "comedic" actors as much as possible, because they're better able to "go the other way" into drama than vice-versa.

________________________________

"Okay, at this point, you're abusing sarcasm!"
-Buffy

MAZAEN

Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:31 PM

I'm also a fan of Joss Whedon's show Firefly but do not like Joss Whedon's show Buffy. I love the show Firefly because it's sweet, funny, in the moment and a bit rough in a western ethic kind of way. I have recently acquired all of season 1 on DVD. Yay!

My first experience of a Joss Whedon show was when my husband became a very big fan of Buffy. He bought all the Buffy DVD's and watched them over and over again and he wrote Buffy fanfics. I guess I understood Buffy was a good show that some people really loved. I personally didn't understand why my husband liked the show about vampires, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Xander and Angel. On some level, I kind of wished sometimes that he would lose the Buffy interest so I wouldn't have to listen to the shows on our television anymore. When he watched Buffy once, I was in another room and heard Buffy and Willow dialouge about the young man man Riley. I thought please stop the tape husband.

After my first Joss Whedon show experience and a few years late, I saw an advertisment for the first episode of Firefly by Joss Whedon. I deliberately didn't watch the 11.00pm Firefly episode because it was a Joss Whedon show.

Another time, My husband rented the Firefly DVD's from the video store. And I said to him that I was not watching Joss Whedon's shows and did some housework. During the first 2 minutes break I sat down on the lounge and out of the corner of my eye saw a ship entering a planet's atmosphere. The ship was being piloted by Wash. I couldn't stop watching the Firefly show and eventually I talked about the show all the time, bought the DVD's and considered Joss to be a legend.

JWHEDONADDICT

Sunday, December 3, 2006 6:08 PM

1. countless relateable, endearing characters (I was hooked at the introduction of Xander and Willow)
2. intelligent, character-driven writing
3. humor, lots and lots of it

There are only about a million more reasons, but that could take more time than I have right now. This is pretty much the gist of it, though.

JWHEDONADDICT

Sunday, December 3, 2006 6:18 PM

What was that about Buffy being a Charmed knock-off? That made me laugh out loud. Charmed came like 3 or 4 years after Buffy, actually. That is the lameness of Aaron Spelling for you. He made a career out of making cheesy rip-offs of better shows that were made successful by someone else.

CHARLENE

Saturday, December 23, 2006 3:28 PM

because it's bloody awesome, duh!

Honestly I was hooked from the start, I was about 12 when it aired here in Germany. I watched it from the start.
I love the show so much, and Angel too for that matter.

The show is funny, it is emotional and it has amazing characters. It is about growing up, making decisions and living with the consequences of said decisions...

I love Buffy. I love Angel. I love Firefly.
And I miss them BIG TIME!

I just have to read quotes of the shows and either laugh or get tears in my eyes. There are not many shows who are so emotionally gripping like Buffy, Angel and Firefly. Joss Whedon is a genius.

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I am 94% Like River Tam

The Fugitive. You are clever and dangerous, which is a nasty combination.
The fact you are crazy too just adds to your charm.
They did bad things to you, but you know their secrets.
They will regret how they made you.

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SPACECOWGIRL

Monday, January 1, 2007 8:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Charlene:
I love Buffy. I love Angel. I love Firefly.
And I miss them BIG TIME!

I just have to read quotes of the shows and either laugh or get tears in my eyes. There are not many shows who are so emotionally gripping like Buffy, Angel and Firefly. Joss Whedon is a genius.

That goes for me too!

I thought the Buffy movie was lame, and didn't watch Buffy when it first came to TV. If any of you don't understand the popularity of Buffy, watch the episode Hush. It's the first episode I accidentally watched, and I was hooked from then on.

Another Joss Whedon (screenplay) project to check out is the animated 2000 sci-fi film Titan A.E.