Where do I put "Trash"?

POSTED BY: outlander
UPDATED: Monday, June 16, 2003 19:09
VIEWED: 14691
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OUTLANDER

Tuesday, June 3, 2003 3:50 PM

Where do I put "Trash", in termes of episode order?

I’m talking about the correct production order not the aired order, also where do the other missing episodes fit into the order as well. This is what I have so far.

Serenity
The Train Job
Bushwhacked
Shindig
Safe
Our Ms Reynolds
Jaynestown
Out of Gas
Arial
War Stories
(Unaired Episode)
Objects in Space
(Unaired Episode)
(Unaired Episode)

Can somebody please fill in the blanks?

SARAHETC

Tuesday, June 3, 2003 4:03 PM

I believe it goes like so:

War Stories
(Heart of Gold)
Objects in Space
(Trash)
(The Message)

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sarah

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

KELKAT1

Tuesday, June 3, 2003 4:23 PM

Actually, we have new "evidence" that the order goes as follows:

War Stories
Trash
Objects in Space
The Message
Heart of Gold

This comes from the guy that has the unaired episodes...

*********************************
Some people juggle geese!

HJERMSTED

Tuesday, June 3, 2003 4:52 PM

The 'Heart of Gold' script has Kaylee still acting nervous around River after her sharp-shooting display in 'War Stories'.

In 'Objects in Space' Kaylee comes clean to the rest of the crew about what she saw and eventually becomes friends with River again after she saves them all from J.Early.

Unless Whedon and Co. changed the scripts posted here, it would seem 'Heart of Gold' flows nicely between 'War Stories' and 'Objects in Space'.

mattro

SHINY

Tuesday, June 3, 2003 6:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
The 'Heart of Gold' script has Kaylee still acting nervous around River after her sharp-shooting display in 'War Stories'.

Do you mean this:

Quote:

River is suddenly at their side

RIVER
It's starting.

Kaylee gives a little STARTLED JUMP, unseen by Mal.

That's the only reference I could find to Kaylee acting 'nervous' around River...

CHRISTHECYNIC

Tuesday, June 3, 2003 10:46 PM

In his interview with Sci Fi Wire Nathan Fillion said, “My naked ass is in them. In the very last episode. I'll let you know that much. They called me Capt. Tight Pants for some time. And now it's going to be Capt. No Pants for sure."

That would make Trash be the last one. I would but Heart of Gold before OiS because the script makes note of the fact that Mal doesn’t see the startled jump, otherwise I would think it’s just that River simply startled her no big deal, but it points out that Mal doesn’t notice, implying that there is something there for him to notice.

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
Kaylee gives a little STARTLED JUMP, unseen by Mal.

That's the only reference I could find to Kaylee acting 'nervous' around River...

That would make it
War Stories
Heart of Gold
Objects in Space
The Message
Trash

SWITCHY

Wednesday, June 4, 2003 2:30 AM

I think Trash has to be closer to "Ariel" for the follow up between Jayne and Simon to make sense. It's too far to put it at the end of the eps.

My Guess would be

War Stories
Trash
OIS
Heart of Gold
The Message

TREIZA

Wednesday, June 4, 2003 3:12 PM

Hmm, I assumed that Heart of Gold was the last episode because in the script the episode ends with Inara telling Mal she's leaving. Wouldn't there have been some mention of that in episodes that came later?

JERRY

Wednesday, June 4, 2003 3:23 PM

I think the tension between Mal and Inara that River picked up on in "Objects in Space" was supposed to be the follow-up to the end of "Hearts of Gold".

CHRISTHECYNIC

Wednesday, June 4, 2003 5:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Treiza:
Hmm, I assumed that Heart of Gold was the last episode because in the script the episode ends with Inara telling Mal she's leaving. Wouldn't there have been some mention of that in episodes that came later?

Spoilers here, so if you for some reason don’t want to know about the unaired episodes don’t read. I’m not going to put the entire post in a spoiler field.

My last post is just wrong. I didn’t take into account the The Message script on this site.

I would agree, but people seem to think that one came before Objects in space. And if one did i think it had to be Heart of Gold.

Now I have to present reasons for saying this.

Ok we know that The Message came after Objects in Space (OiS) because Jayne makes reference to River’s ability to read minds which came out in Objects in Space. I want to check Trash to see if it has any direct references to OiS which would prove that it did come after, but real player has started to crash my computer every time I use it. (If any one can help, please tell me what to do.)

The Message must come directly after Trash because Mal and Inara talk about Mal’s immediate difficulties selling the Lassiter, so it had to come right after. Now OiS could conceivably be between The Message and Trash, because it is a quick episode, but Heart of Gold couldn’t be.

I don’t think this is the case though, In the beginning of OiS Jayne keeps talking about how River slashed him, but when it comes out that she can read minds he shuts up about this, even seems scared. Asks if she could read his. To me this says that he was afraid that River knew what he had done, and possibly thought that was why she slashed him. He certainly wouldn’t have had any problem with this if he already knew that River knew that he had tried to turn them in, which he finds out in Trash. He also wouldn’t have brought up the knife if he knew that Mal, Simon, and River all knew that he had double-crossed them, as opposed to just Mal.

Then we have the fact that Simon believes river when she uses her psychicness to tell him about Jayne’s betrayal. Lastly River’s, “I can kill you with my brain,” bit seems to me to be a reference to the killing with mathematics conversation she listened into in OiS.

So here’s how I would put it

Objects in Space
Trash
The Message
Heart of Gold

If you insist that there really is one between War Stories and OiS it would have to be Heart of Gold if I’m right, but it would make much more sense to have Inara leave at the end, rather than having it just hang out there.

ALEXANDRIA

Wednesday, June 4, 2003 6:04 PM

Spoilers for Heart of gold (as if it hasn't been spoiled in this thread yet, but just in case )

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but back before the show was canceled the episode guide listed "Heart of Gold" as the episode to air in "objects in Space"'s place. When word came down that Firefly was "going inot Hiatus" for a while, the schedule changed and OiS was aired instead. I think they wanted to make sure that one aired because it's so damn good and didn't want to leave the series with Inara telling Mal that she wa leaving incase they didn't want to come back.
so i think it goes:
War stories
Heart of Gold
Objects in Space
Trash
The Message ('cause of the reference to the difficulty of fencing the Lassiter)

CHRISTHECYNIC

Wednesday, June 4, 2003 6:28 PM

The problem with putting Heart of Gold before the others is that there is never a decision shown that she plans on staying. We could assume that the events of Objects in Space somehow made her decide to stay between then and Trash but that is a fairly weak argument. The show isn’t weak, so that doesn't add up.

LJC

Wednesday, June 4, 2003 7:03 PM

Yeah--but if "heart of Gold" doesn't go before "Objects In Space", then Kaylee avoiding River makes no sense. And if it doesn't go before "The Message", then

Select to view spoiler:

Kaylee still wistfully wanting Simon to make a move makes no sense... Since he makes a move, and it's the wrong one, and we see how she handles it, and it doesn't track properly otherwise

...

--
Some take the high road. Some take the low road.
And some just go screaming down the highway, dropping flaming bits of wreckage.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Wednesday, June 4, 2003 7:15 PM

Ok I looked at The Message script again and here’s what I’ve come up with. It says

Quote:
Episode #: 1AGE13

So I’m thinking that that is an episode number. I know, its outrageous, but I really think it is an episode number.

So here’s what that gives:

1AGE00 Serenity
1AGE01 The Train Job
1AGE02 Bushwhacked
1AGE03 Shindig
1AGE04 Safe
1AGE05 Our Mrs. Reynolds
1AGE06 Jaynestown
1AGE07 Out of Gas
1AGE08 Ariel
1AGE09 War Stories
1AGE10 Heart of gold
1AGE11 Objects in Space
1AGE12 Trash
1AGE13 The Message

http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/EpisodeGuideServlet/showid-7097/
can give those numbers, as will
http://www.cylist.com/List/400150735/

They do list serenity oddly however, listing it as 1AGE79 not the accepted 1AGE00 or lack of listing shown on the fox site and
http://www.sftv.org/sftv/sftvtitl.txt

it and
http://members.fortunecity.com/firefly2002/ffepisodeguide.html
both support the Heart of Gold then Objects in Space idea, but do not show Trash and The Message (of course these would still occupy the same spaces)

Interesting note the second to last link subtitles War Stories as Oaths of Loyalty. Never heard that before.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Wednesday, June 4, 2003 7:18 PM

LJC, you are right, even though my last post says it I thought I should come right out and say it rather then leave it to be inferred.

TALRIUS

Wednesday, June 4, 2003 8:09 PM

Quote:
Interesting note the second to last link subtitles War Stories as Oaths of Loyalty. Never heard that before.

Chris,

If you read the script of screen project on the official site it follows the writing process for 'War Stories'. It lists WS as 'Oaths of Loyalty' until an early morning call to the writer changed the name to 'War Stories'. That's where the name came from.

RHUTTNER

Wednesday, June 4, 2003 8:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
The problem with putting Heart of Gold before the others is that there is never a decision shown that she plans on staying. We could assume that the events of Objects in Space somehow made her decide to stay between then and Trash but that is a fairly weak argument. The show isn’t weak, so that doesn't add up.

Its true that there is never a reason given for why she stays, but at the beginning of OiS she is fighting with Mal and says "I don't know why I haven't left already".

If HoG goes before OiS, then these 2 scenes flow well.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Wednesday, June 4, 2003 8:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Talrius:
Chris,

If you read the script of screen project on the official site it follows the writing process for 'War Stories'. It lists WS as 'Oaths of Loyalty' until an early morning call to the writer changed the name to 'War Stories'. That's where the name came from.

Thank you.

Quote:
Originally posted by rhuttner:
Its true that there is never a reason given for why she stays, but at the beginning of OiS she is fighting with Mal and says "I don't know why I haven't left already".

If HoG goes before OiS, then these 2 scenes flow well.

And of course there is the fact that it is the episode before OiS so it simply has to work. Good point, looks like she made a big fuss then decided not to leave after all.

DRAKON

Saturday, June 7, 2003 7:39 AM

Concerning Inara staying after Heart of Gold.

If the order is
HOG--OIS--Trash--Message, this story of Inara flows well. She tells Mal she is leaving. She goes through a rough patch with a psycho in OIS, she becomes a member of the gang in Trash, and by then the problem is solved. Does she really have to come right out and say "Okay, I changed my mind?"

AERUNDEL

Wednesday, June 11, 2003 2:31 AM

If Heart of Gold is before Trash and The Message, then why do they show a scene from The Message when they're recapping at the beginning of Heart of Gold?

Also, since Inara says she's leaving at the end of HoG, it seems kinda weird for her to just switch emotions suddenly and do the stealing and such if Trash and Message come after it. She's seems a little too happy to be leaving then.

My thoughts are that River seems too lucid for Objects in Space to come AFTER the the unaired eps. I mean, that episode was like an awakening of River's rational side. And I don't think Jayne would've reacted so strongly to her "joke" at the end of Trash if she hadn't already duped Jubal Early at an earlier time.

So I'm going:

OiS
Trash
Message
HoG

CHRISTHECYNIC

Wednesday, June 11, 2003 2:53 AM

Yeah, sorry. The order came up in more than one place, I fixed it in the other. This makes no sense to me. Why would Sci Fi UK air all but one in order? Still Heart of Gold does seem to be an end, The end. ('The' with an uppercase "T") The Message would have worked for an ending, but having seen HoG I can't believe that OiS came after it.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that either Sci Fi UK messed up their online schedule (most likely) or there are scenes we still haven’t seen (like a big thing taken out of OiS in the way the encyclopedia was taken out of Serenity, and they added the scenes in the recap to adjust for the new order when Fox changed it before canceling it.) The second is very unlikely, but it’s the only other option I see. Most likely it’s the first.

The second (drastically unlikely) theory only has the fact that it (Heart of Gold) was supposed to go first, so it would make sense that they did something to deal with her not being gone. I’m almost entirely sure that Heart of Gold is last, but that almost wont go away till Sci Fi UK changes it’s line up, or the DVD comes out, whichever is first.

*Prays: Let the DVD come first, then the movie not long after, then the series starting up again with a bigger budget, not that they need one but they deserve it*

SUCCATASH

Wednesday, June 11, 2003 8:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Aerundel:
If Heart of Gold is before Trash and The Message, then why do they show a scene from The Message when they're recapping at the beginning of Heart of Gold?

This is exactly my question, too. Seems clear HoG is last.

If not, can someone explain this, please?

TREIZA

Wednesday, June 11, 2003 9:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Quote:
Originally posted by Aerundel:
If Heart of Gold is before Trash and The Message, then why do they show a scene from The Message when they're recapping at the beginning of Heart of Gold?
This is exactly my question, too. Seems clear HoG is last.

If not, can someone explain this, please?

Well, is it possible that since FOX was airing them out of order, the recap doesn't actually give us reliable information?

That said, I do still think that HofG is the last episode, and it seems like it would have been a great cliffhanger for a season finale.

LEXIBLOCK

Wednesday, June 11, 2003 9:50 PM

Quote:
Unless Whedon and Co. changed the scripts posted here, it would seem 'Heart of Gold' flows nicely between 'War Stories' and 'Objects in Space'

I don't think so- Heart of Gold ends with a deeply emotional Inara saying she is going to leave. And in the beginning of Objects in the Space she is complaining about Mal taking her to all kinds of places where there aren't any customers.

SUCCATASH

Wednesday, June 11, 2003 9:57 PM

And she also says that in Trash. Seems like she says it every episode.

LEXIBLOCK

Wednesday, June 11, 2003 10:28 PM

Quote:
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but back before the show was canceled the episode guide listed "Heart of Gold" as the episode to air in "objects in Space"'s place. When word came down that Firefly was "going inot Hiatus" for a while, the schedule changed and OiS was aired instead. I think they wanted to make sure that one aired because it's so damn good ...

Yes, the talk was that since OiS was written and directed by Whedon it was probably a better ratings bet than HoG, but the talk was also that because they changed they order the episodes were edited differently, ie changed from the original plan. Ie, Yes HoG WAS supposed to be first, but i don't think it is anymore.

LEXIBLOCK

Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Ok I looked at The Message script again and here’s what I’ve come up with. It says
Quote:
Episode #: 1AGE13
So I’m thinking that that is an episode number. I know, its outrageous, but I really think it is an episode number.

No, its not outrageous, its probably the intended order, BUT what is more interesting is to look at the revisions. There is a skip from October to December between the last two revisions. The last revision is done AFTER Objects In Space has been broadcast. That suggests to me that after they had rearranged the order they needed to rewrite parts of the Heart of Gold.

INVISIBLEGREEN

Thursday, June 12, 2003 2:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LexiBlock:
Yes, the talk was that since OiS was written and directed by Whedon it was probably a better ratings bet than HoG, but the talk was also that because they changed they order the episodes were edited differently, ie changed from the original plan. Ie, Yes HoG WAS supposed to be first, but i don't think it is anymore.

Yes, this is pretty much the way I see it. Minear and/or Whedon switched the order intentionally in order to try to capture an audience, just like what they did with the "Shindig/Safe" postponement.

I have not actually seen the unaired episodes, so ignoring events, they would go: HoG, T, TM.

Hopefully Joss or Minear will comment on this.

BTW, the production code for "Serenity" (both parts 1 & 2) is 1AGE79, NOT 1AGE00, because "Serenity" was filmed as a pilot, separate from the rest of the series. Usually the number 1...79 is reserved for a production pilot, but "Firefly" never had one, since the show was created after a special request from FOX. (I think that if the show did have a production pilot, FOX would've known more what the show would be like, so they could've planned their marketing better, and hence, the show wouldv'e done better.)

CHRISTHECYNIC

Thursday, June 12, 2003 3:01 AM

Ok, here’s what I really want to know.

If (big if) we are right, and they planed OiS to come after Heart of Gold but changed for ratings purposes, and if (another really big if, this one a double) Sci Fi UK is doing Firefly the way it was meant to be and they really did mean to put HoG before OiS like they did on their schedule, then does that mean there will be another version of either OiS or Heart of Gold, or both, that will decanonize the ones we have seen and deal with the apparent continuity error

Select to view spoiler:

of Inara leaving

?

I cant get over the Sci Fi UK airing order, it’s really bugging me. If Heart of Gold was meant to be first, then there might have been scenes in OiS that dealt with it,

Select to view spoiler:

or the Inara leaving might have been done differently (doubt that)

and with the original scenes put back in what we know about the show could just be wrong. I really liked the show (bet I’m not the only one), so something that could make what I’ve seen and think I know incorrect is more than a little irritating.

The end of Heart of Gold was the most powerful scene in my opinion, so a change in the stuff surrounding that really messes up my understanding of the show.

SUCCATASH

Thursday, June 12, 2003 3:17 AM

I'm with you Chris, it's really bugging me too. If HoG comes before OiS, then we are missing some really big scenes, or an entire episode.

Seems like HoG has got to be last.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Thursday, June 12, 2003 3:39 AM

That’s just the problem it has to be last, but it wasn't. Even if they changed the order before the episodes were shot I just have to know what the scripts of the later ones had to deal with Inara not leaving. What were the scenes, what did we miss? How much could we learn about the characters from how the writers planed to make her stay? She and Mal still weren’t to be lovers, so what would make her stay that wouldn’t make Mal and her make a relationship?

To me this is important, I want to know what’s going on in the characters, and after that there would be a lot going on. 18 months to a movie is too long to wait, maybe they’ll have (first draft) scripts on the DVDs, but when will we get those?

MANIACNUMBERONE

Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:06 AM

Quote:
She and Mal still weren’t to be lovers, so what would make her stay that wouldn’t make Mal and her make a relationship?

I think she and Mal were to be lovers eventually, and that the potential for that would keep her on the ship.

On a side note, (to which I am unsure I subscribe yet) I have thought that HOG could very nicely fit before OIS. All of the corresponding scenes seem to match up with their characters previous actions.

I mean, you've got Inara/Mal, with Inara saying in the last scene of HOG that

Select to view spoiler:

she's going to leave, and in the next scene with her, we see her in OIS with Mal, and she is saying, "I don't know why I haven't left already."

She is waiting, it seems for Mal to tell her his feelings. It is a very tense moment between them, and it seemed, to me anyway, to resemble the tension of their previous encounter in HOG.

Also, on the same thought, you've got Simon/Kaylee, in OIS all laying on top of each other,

Select to view spoiler:

as though they had just had a breakthrough of some sort, like holding hands at a funeral in HOG

It feels right somehow that they should be so closely bonding in the beginning of OIS.

Also, you've got Zoe/Wash, who are also all lovey-dovey, (that's normal for them) but extra so

Select to view spoiler:

because Wash almost just got shot, didn't he? In HOG? (I've only seen in once, so far, so bear with any mistakes)

Hopefully, some of that made sense to someone else besides me.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Thursday, June 12, 2003 6:22 PM

Select to view spoiler:

Simon and Kaylee were holding hands when Tracy was delivered to his parents in The Message. Not the funeral in Heart of Gold.

I agreed with that side note, everything fit perfect for Heart of Gold to go before OiS. But when I saw it that last scene was just to powerful to not have a larger follow up. The small conversation in the beginning of OiS was a seemed to be fitting follow-up to the script, but not the actual scene.

What I meant by the "not to be lovers" bit was that it seemed like they were either going to have to deal with their feelings for each other (which would make them lovers in the next episodes) or she was going to be gone.

It didn't seem like anything less would keep her there.

On the other hand, Mal's pychic commnet River picked up on seems to work best if Heart of Gold did just happen.

Select to view spoiler:

Nandi's death would denfintely make him slip inot that kind of depressive thinking

where as at the end of War Stories he seemed happy (good to be home, back with his crew and ship, making fun of Wash, laughing with Book -not in that order) so it seems like his feelings would be a bit brighter.

SUCCATASH

Thursday, June 12, 2003 7:18 PM

Do you think it's possible that in Ois, when River was reading Mal's mind and he said, "None of it means a damn thing," that he was talking specifically about his meaningless sex with Nandi?

CHRISTHECYNIC

Thursday, June 12, 2003 7:44 PM

I don't think his sex with her was meaningless. But when she died I think it hit him really hard, so he might not be caring anymore, and if he doesn’t care then none of it (everything in general, the relationship he could be having with Inara specifically) would mean anything to him.

SUCCATASH

Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:22 PM

Mal did say, "There's no one in this room but you and me," which does indicate it was more than meaningless sex.

LEXIBLOCK

Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
Quote:

On a side note, (to which I am unsure I subscribe yet) I have thought that HOG could very nicely fit before OIS. All of the corresponding scenes seem to match up with their characters previous actions.

Especially the 'previous on' which shows scenes from The Message...

Quote:

I mean, you've got Inara/Mal, with Inara saying in the last scene of HOG that
Select to view spoiler:
she's going to leave, and in the next scene with her, we see her in OIS with Mal, and she is saying, "I don't know why I haven't left already."

Yeah, but i think that's just general complaining, its not way near enough entense to be a continuation.
Especially since their relationship goes way up in Trash/Message - they appear to feel much warmer towards each other - i'm not sure that is a logical extension of HoG

Quote:

Also, on the same thought, you've got Simon/Kaylee, in OIS all laying on top of each other,
Select to view spoiler:
as though they had just had a breakthrough of some sort, like holding hands at a funeral in HOG
It feels right somehow that they should be so closely bonding in the beginning of OIS.

You are dreaming - they are just standing next to each other in HOG - however in "The Message" they are holding hands...

Also, people keep talking about the Sci Fi UK airing order, where can you see what it is?

INVISIBLEGREEN

Friday, June 13, 2003 1:19 AM

I think that Sci-Fi UK is just airing them in production order, because that is what so many people requested.

And if HoG has "Previously..." clips from "The Message," then that is really weird (I haven't seen the eps yet). I guess it's possible Tim switched the order on that, too. I do remember reading an article where Tim talked about filming additional scenes for HoG after "The Message" finished filming (or possibly while), but I was under the impression that these were extra flashback scenes. Were there flashback scenes in HoG?

It's seeming likely that HoG was moved to be the end of the series and the final scene(s) were rewritten and then shot. Joss and Tim did say that "The Message" did not bring a sense of closure because they didn't expect the show to be cancelled.

Brett Matthews, who wrote HoG, was just a producer's assistant [for Joss] (or sometime like that) for "Firefly," so its unlikely that they'd give him a plot crucial ep on the first time. (Think "Normal Again" of "Buffy," a very good ep, but not so plot crucial, wriiten by Diego Guttierez, another producer's asst. for Joss. Of course, Steve DeKnight got "Blood Ties" as his first "Buffy" ep, although originally it wasn't going to be plot-centric or something.)

So my conclusion is that Tim Minear (or Joss, maybe) possibly rewrote and reshot the ending of HoG and moved it to last cronologically.

So our new order may be:

Objects in Space
Trash & The Message (in some order, probably "Trash" first)
Heart of Gold

SUCCATASH

Friday, June 13, 2003 1:22 AM

InvisibleGreen, that's the best I've heard yet. I'll give you a dollar for what you just wrote. Oh, and there are flashback scenes, to answer your question.

OUTLANDER

Friday, June 13, 2003 2:51 AM

Trash & The Message seem almost like a double episode, because the gun that they steel in Trash is the gun they are trying to get rid of in The Message.

I am downloading Heart of Gold at the moment, so I will try to work out where it goes after I watch it.

I hope Heart of Gold goes after The Message, because even though I thought The Message was a good episode I found that it ended on a bit of a downer, which I didn't think was a good tone to end the series on.

DMAN[WARLLAMAS]

Friday, June 13, 2003 10:40 PM

http://epguides.com/Firefly/

1. 1- 1 1AGE01 20 Sep 02 The Train Job
2. 1- 2 1AGE02 27 Sep 02 Bushwhacked
3. 1- 3 1AGE05 4 Oct 02 Our Mrs. Reynolds
4. 1- 4 1AGE06 18 Oct 02 Jaynestown
5. 1- 5 1AGE07 25 Oct 02 Out of Gas
6. 1- 6 1AGE03 1 Nov 02 Shindig
7. 1- 7 1AGE04 8 Nov 02 Safe
8. 1- 8 1AGE08 15 Nov 02 Ariel
9. 1- 9 1AGE09 6 Dec 02 War Stories
10. 1-10 1AGE11 13 Dec 02 Objects in Space
11. 1-11 1AGE79 20 Dec 02 Serenity (1)
12. 1-12 1AGE79 20 Dec 02 Serenity (2)
13. 1-13 1AGE10 UNAIRED Heart of Gold
14. 1-14 1AGE12 UNAIRED Trash
15. 1-15 1AGE13 UNAIRED The Message

But who knows the order Fox would have shown them.

[)-man

CHRISTHECYNIC

Friday, June 13, 2003 11:43 PM

I don't think anyone cares the order that Fox would have shown them. People are concerned with what the right order is. And from what I'm hearing there is no universal right order becuse they went back and reshot to change it.

SHINY

Saturday, June 14, 2003 12:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by outlander:
I hope Heart of Gold goes after The Message, because even though I thought The Message was a good episode I found that it ended on a bit of a downer, which I didn't think was a good tone to end the series on.

The ending of HoG ain't exactly all roses and sunshine, either.

KAYTHRYN

Saturday, June 14, 2003 12:41 AM

Quote:
Posted by Outlander:
I hope Heart of Gold goes after The Message, because even though I thought The Message was a good episode I found that it ended on a bit of a downer, which I didn't think was a good tone to end the series on.

I don't think they meant for the series to end on that sad note, bet they were expecting some happy episodes to follow.

-------------------------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

LERXST

Saturday, June 14, 2003 1:07 AM

"End" the series? BLASPHEMY! The series ain't ended, just takin a little hiatus. Right?

_________________________________________________
Raspberry! Only one man would dare give me the raspberry...LONESTAR!!

DUNDEE

Saturday, June 14, 2003 6:25 AM

Anybody else notice the order clips from the unaird epps at the very begining when they show whats already happened, At the begining of HoG they show clips from The Messg, In Trash they show clips from already aired and in The Messg they show clips from Trash

therfor logic sais the order of unaird epps goes

1) Trash
2) The Message
3) Heart of Gold

where they fit in with the already aird epps i dont know there some of the last aired epps may be mixed in between this order. i would have to look at the intros again to see if i can figure out if Objects is inbetween some of the un aired epps

as for

Quote:
"End" the series? BLASPHEMY! The series ain't ended, just takin a little hiatus. Right?

actualy the series IS canceled, hiatus, not so much anymore, its offical, shes canceled

but then again MOVIES are good to eh?

Dear diary, Today I was pompous and my sister was crazy,
Today we where kidnapped my hill folk never to be seen again, it was the best day ever.

INVISIBLEGREEN

Saturday, June 14, 2003 4:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dundee:
Anybody else notice the order clips from the unaird epps at the very begining when they show whats already happened, At the begining of HoG they show clips from The Messg, In Trash they show clips from already aired and in The Messg they show clips from Trash

therfor logic sais the order of unaird epps goes

1) Trash
2) The Message
3) Heart of Gold

Okay, great, so it's confirmed, After OiS, we have the above, logical order. Hopefully the DVD release will be in this order rather than the production order. But Fox Home Entertainment is notorious for removing the previously clips and prologues, so who knows.

KAYTHRYN

Saturday, June 14, 2003 7:43 PM

Spoilers for pretty much everything but Trash... and, sadly, if you are looking for anything with some semblance of logic, move on.

Select to view spoiler:

Okay, I've not really put any thought into this, so feel free to dismiss it-- I'm making it up as I go.

Here’s the order I watch the eps in...

OiS
Trash
HoG
The Message

Mainly because I’m following the relationship between Kaylee and Simon.

In the beginning of Objects in Space those two were very flirty and comfortable with each other, and after the Early incident Simon probably didn't move on pass that innocent flirting throughout Trash, and Heart of Gold. In HoG Kaylee says that “its not like anyone else is lining up to examine me.” She didn’t seem mad or guilty (I‘ll get to the guilty later), just frustrated that Simon still hadn’t made any further moves. That about all we get of them in HoG.

Then, in the Message it starts off with those two and some more flirting in the booth. This time it is a little more direct with them holding hands and Simon pretty much saying that he likes her likes her. Of course then he makes a stupid joke and she storms out. So right now she is kinda pissed at him, and he feels a little guilty. Back on Serenity Simon offers to do an autopsy and Kaylee gets a tid bit upset and calls him a robot. Now I’m thinking that Simon’s not just guilty but a little irked about how she’s reacting.

Then there is that little engine room scene where Simon almost goes in to talk to her, but ends up walking away when he realizes that she doesn‘t want to deal with him. Blah blah blah, move on to when Tracy, the formerly dead guy, wakes up, and Kaylee walks into the room. She stares at Tracy (probably just because he was dead last time she saw him) and there is a great moment where she picks her jaw up off the floor when she notices Simon staring at her. At this point I think the tables are starting to turn slightly where Simon is moving to the upset side and Kaylee to the guilty side.

Next scene-- Kaylee gives Tracy water and sits near him, the furthest, and with a table between them, from Simon. A hint at why I think Kaylee is starting to move toward feeling guilty for being so quick to react and rude towards Simon is because when he starts talking, she looks up at him quickly, and then away-- if she was upset I think she would of acted a little more defiant. Through out the scene where Tracy’s talking about his organs getting scooped out Kaylee is all moon eyed and sweet on him, which of course Simon must notice.

Through the rest of the episode there is some heavy flirting between Kaylee and Tracy, and then Tracy goes all weird and holds her at gun point. He gets shot and tells that heart wrenching story as he dies and Simon doesn’t try to save his life, just holds a bandage to his chest wound. (He either couldn‘t be saved and Mal probably just motioned for him not to even try or it wasn‘t worth it because of the unstable organs or what not) Then he goes and dies, and the last scene of Simon and Kaylee is when she stands beside him and holds his hand, while the both of them look onward kinda sadly.

Maybe I’m just reading too much into all of this... And now that I’ve seen all I’ve written I think maybe I have, but I think there is just so much in that last scene. Kaylee was sad that Tracy died, even though there was the whole hostage bit, she still felt bad for him. Simon, being the kind of man he is and a doctor, probably doesn’t like to see anyone die, (especially if he think that he could of saved him?) When Kaylee went and held his hand is was almost like she was saying “I’m sorry for getting so upset with you over something you really didn’t mean, and at the same time almost completely leaving you, you wonderful nice man who gave up everything to save your sister, for some charming guy who only wanted money and to save his own skin and was willing to hold a gun to my head. So once again I’m sorry, I’m not mad anymore, and I’ll be here for you, and I need some comfort.” (See the whole guilty feeling thing?) And Simon was like

TREIZA

Saturday, June 14, 2003 11:44 PM

Well, this was posted on the fox boards, where they've been having the same argument. Seems like a reliable source

Tim Minear - Jun 14, 2003 9:16:41 am PDT #9264 of 9273
"So Tim, is "Heart of Gold" supposed to take place after "Trash" and "The Message" or before "Objects in Space"?"
Both. The order, and (to the best of my recollection) the way it'll shake out on the DVDs is:
Trash,
The Message,
Heart Of Gold,
Objects In Space
Joss made a minor adjustment in "Objects" when we aired it, and restored said change for the DVD order.
edited by Tim Minear on Jun 14, 2003 9:20:14 am PDT

MANIACNUMBERONE

Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:27 AM

I'm glad someone goes to the fox board to bring info back to me. I still refuse to go there on principle. I wonder what that extra scene in OIS will contain?

CHRISTHECYNIC

Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:55 AM

Does that confuse anyone else even more than before?

Trash just made sense to be after OiS and in The Message Jayne makes reference to the psychicness of River, something that didn’t come up till OiS. So maybe he remembered wrong, or maybe Jayne is the real psychic because he knew she was psychic before anyone else knew. Or maybe the continuity is worse than I thought.

SHINY

Sunday, June 15, 2003 2:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Trash just made sense to be after OiS and in The Message Jayne makes reference to the psychicness of River, something that didn’t come up till OiS. So maybe he remembered wrong, or maybe Jayne is the real psychic because he knew she was psychic before anyone else knew. Or maybe the continuity is worse than I thought.

Well, there were plenty of clues before OiS (especially in Ariel and Safe), but it's true they never openly talked about the possibility she was psychic before OiS (and in OiS, Jayne does react with some surprise "you mean she's a witch?" and discomfort "I don't like the idea of someone hearin' what I'm thinkin'"). So that line in The Message definitely makes more sense if it's after OiS, but maybe it was just a mistake (perhaps at some early stage, The Message was after OiS and the line didn't get changed when it was moved?)...This is just one extra reason to get the DVD -- perhaps the commentaries and/or other bonus material will clear all this up.

Quote:
Originally posted by MANIACNUMBERONE:
I wonder what that extra scene in OIS will contain?

I would guess the extra scene must have dealt with Mal and Inara

MAGUINAN

Sunday, June 15, 2003 5:22 AM

HFK copied some of dialogue out of OiS into the IRC channel and we noticed that there's a line in the Mal/Inara scene where she says, "I don't know why I haven't left yet." Could be that's the link between Heart of Gold and OiS.

-maguinan

SHINY

Sunday, June 15, 2003 2:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by maguinan:
HFK copied some of dialogue out of OiS into the IRC channel and we noticed that there's a line in the Mal/Inara scene where she says, "I don't know why I haven't left yet." Could be that's the link between Heart of Gold and OiS.

-maguinan

Yes, that's what most of us thought originally after we read the HoG script, but when we saw the actual episode (thanks again trs80!), many of us felt that the scene where Inara says she is leaving had an air of finality to it and that the little psychic eavesdropping that River does in the beginning of OiS wasn't enough of a resolution/follow-up to the dramatic ending of HoG.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Monday, June 16, 2003 12:48 AM

I could be wrong but I thought that the, “I don’t know why I haven’t left yet,” was aloud, to Mal. And the, “I’m a big girl just tell me,” was the psychic eavesdropping. Further the conversation started off with “It’s not a threat Mal, I just can’t do my work under these circumstances,” which seems to me like something regarding her threatening to leave. However I don’t think it is a follow-up to the Heart of Gold ending. It does imply an ongoing thing of her threatening to leave, but the Heart of Gold bit seemed a finality, not a threat of leaving but the real thing.

Also the line, “Girl’s a mind reading genius, cant even figure out how to eat an ice planet,” is from the message, when I talk about Jayne referring to River’s being psychic I’m talking about that line. I have no idea what people are talking about when they say there was reference to her being psychic in Heart of Gold. It may be they are talking about the same thing and they just mixed it up, or there could be something I missed.

Considering that Jayne was (very) surprised when the possibility of mind reading came up I say it came after. The guy said that he was telling us from memory, so my bet is he remembered wrong.

My few cents worth (more than two, less than a nickel.)

MANIACNUMBERONE

Monday, June 16, 2003 6:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
I could be wrong but I thought that the, “I don’t know why I haven’t left yet,” was aloud, to Mal. And the, “I’m a big girl just tell me,” was the psychic eavesdropping. Further the conversation started off with “It’s not a threat Mal, I just can’t do my work under these circumstances,” which seems to me like something regarding her threatening to leave. However I don’t think it is a follow-up to the Heart of Gold ending. It does imply an ongoing thing of her threatening to leave, but the Heart of Gold bit seemed a finality, not a threat of leaving but the real thing.

I agree with the assessment of which statements were psychic and which dialogue, but I thought it was a fair follow-up to HOG. Not great, just fair, because in Hog

Select to view spoiler:

I believe much of the reason Inara said she would leave was due to Mal having slept with Nandi. So when River eavesdropped on Mal's thoughts, in OIS, He was saying "none of it means a damn thing," which I believe was of a follow-up nature. He is thinking how his relationship with Inara doesn't hinge on whether he sleeps with another woman (Nandi) or not, because Inara has said repeatedly she won't have any of Mal. (and he is too big a boy to play foolish games)

CHRISTHECYNIC

Monday, June 16, 2003 7:09 PM

Never really looked at it that way.