Hunt for the Secret Hidey Place of Nice Boys

POSTED BY: mai
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 17:49
VIEWED: 58558
PAGE 3 of 3

Oh the "She-Woman Man Hater's Club" that's perfect. In fact, I think I will go and start a whole new thread entitled just that...

or not.

Just so everyone knows, I started this thread for fun. You remember fun, right? That thing where people laugh and smile and enjoy the thread that they are taking part in. There is no reason to get your panties in a wad when other people having differing views than your own. If you don't like what's being written don't read it.
If you feel the need to express your opinion there is a way to go about doing such without being a twit.

~one of the whores.

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Originally posted by BlackEyedGirl:


One of my biggest issues is people (not just men) who did things because they think they are supposed to, not because they want to, but because they think this is the way it works. It feel manipulated and ridiculous.

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I had an ex-boyfriend who got married because all of his friends were getting married and having kids and he felt left out. It reminds me of the Sex and the City skit where Miranda tells Charlotte that men are taxis that run around with their lights off until one day they turn their lights on and the next woman that they pick up, they marry.

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A while back one of my friends was shocked to hear that I had never cohabitated with a man. I didn't think this was that strange, I've never even considered moving in with a man (then again I've dated like 2, maybe 3 men in the last 5 years so it's more likely a numberss issue). My theory is I see a lot of people who date, move in with each other, and that's it. I have 2 male friends who've lived with their girlfriends going on 3+ years and don't want to marry them, they still think there might be someone else out there for them. Which to me is a huge OMG! Break the fuck up, cos you are just stringing each other along. I don't get that. Get married or break up don't stay cos it's easy and convienent while you wait for the next best thing!

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I've met women woh live with a man to see if they can cohabitate together as husband and wife. Then, they get frustrated and angry because they can live together but he's not proposing because he doesn't see the need for a ring and a ceremony when they're already living together. Eventually, the woman comes to her senses and moves out.

I won't cohabitate with a man because of the above mentioned situation. I don't want to get stuck in that situation.

I also wouldn't cohabitate with a man because it's more difficult to put distance between the two of you when your names are both on the lease and his stuff and your stuff share the same space. When I break up with a boyfriend, I want to be able to go home and not have him be there.

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It's a Saturday night and here I am, on the Firefly board, reading blogs, and pretty damn satisfied. I'd love a partner in crime, but right now I'm feeling pretty okay just with me.

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I'm feeling okay too. I'm even contemplating my future alone. Right now, I'm thinking about finishing my credential, paying off my student loans and facing the daunting task of coming up with a big enough down payment to buy a condo in Los Angeles. Pretty full plate.

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Also, there are lots of guys out there who don't want kids. My best friend married one, neither of them want a passel of ankle biters, they have 2 dogs and 3 cats and that's a big enough menagerie for them. Just keep your hopes up and keep your eyes peeled. I currently live in an area where if you are single at 25+ and not already through your first divorce with at least 2 kids you are a freak of nature (they are breeders up here in Wausau, BREEDERS I say!), and every guy I have met has kids, and I don't really want someone elses baggage. I don't want to deal with offspring that didn't come out of me (and even so I only want one, and it will be well behaved and very much loved and attented upon as opposed to these people with a herd of kids with ADD), and that fact alone can't get me a date.

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There should be a dating service for people who don't want kids. I'd use it. I'm happy with my pets. I have some ADHD kids in my classes. They're not fun to deal with. I wouldn't want to have one in my house.

"You can keep a dog; but it is the cat who keeps people, because cats find humans useful domestic animals."--George Mikes

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I've never lived with a man I was dating. It's bad business. No clean breaks. No way to go to your corner and reflect when you need alone time. And yeah, folks, not just the men, get into the rut of, 'hey we're living together, why get married?'

I want kids. More than one. That puts me on a different playing field. I know a lot of men that don't want kids. Luckily, I've managed to find a nice guy that is pretty sure he wants more than one.

I suggest searching at conventions, electronics stores, and parties hosted by a close friend…or maybe a sci-fi website. I tend to find guys of similar interests in those environments.


www.thatweirdgirl.com
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"...turn right at the corner then skip two blocks...no, SKIP, the hopping-like thing kids do...Why? Why not?"

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I don’t know where the nice guys are. I’ve never been one, and they’ve never told me. Also I don’t care.

I'm not really adding anything to this discussion, but for some reason it has grown to over 200 replies and I just felt left out.


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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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memo from the secret hidey place of not so bad not egosentric enough to call myself nice, guys: "where are all the nice girls?"



On a good day, hell can look alot like LA.-Playing God

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Originally posted by Jadehand:
Sucks when you percieve yourself as not good enough, yet better than most others at the same time, doesn't it? See above conflicting simutainous views. The love yourself bit. Hard to do when you can't find anything inside worthy of it....yet so many people around you do. What are they seeing that you don't? I'm there. My love battery is running low, I gave a lot out without getting recharged.

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Yeah, conflicting views are rough, eh? Sometimes I think I get what people see in me, but it's often vague and elusive.

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on a final note: The whole nice guys finish last thing. Well yeah. They always make sure she finishes first.

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So true...but women tend not to want that. They want the guy to compete with them, to be a challenge. That's the whole hard to get allure (which I certainly don't get).

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Originally posted by XeroGravity:
If you are a man and you whine about how women broke your heart, guess what. You are in the process of growing a spine.
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Ladies... we just wanna get laid. Slide inside with no complications. We're cold, emotionless, and after one thing.

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When I read this I came to the conclusion that you were being humorous, but if you're not I disagree. I have a "spine," unless my perception of a spine is different from yours. And I'm certainly not emotionless. I don't want to just get laid. Sure, sex is a wonderful thing, but only if it's shared with someone you care deeply about (preferrably love). That's one of my biggest difficulties with women. I discount so many based on the fact that I know they've slept with someone they weren't attached to. That is something I'm working on changing (with the knowledge that people change, and perhaps that lovely young lady isn't like that anymore). My views on sex (even something as "innocent" as kissing) are very strict...but I say once there's a commitment go for broke and do whatever craziness in the bedroom you want. So does that make me traditionalist in my views on sex or not?

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Originally posted by BlackEyedGirl:
I have high self-esteem, but even so it's hard to convince myself to keep fighting
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Also, I totally Agree with you KayleeWannaBe about the whole 'man who wants to take care of me, because he knows he doesn't have to.'

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Imagine how hard it is for someone with low self esteem :p It's nice to know that at least some women feel that way. I've found few greater joys than taking care of my previous gf's, but they often bristled at it. They were too independant, maybe.

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A while back one of my friends was shocked to hear that I had never cohabitated with a man. I didn't think this was that strange, I've never even considered moving in with a man (then again I've dated like 2, maybe 3 men in the last 5 years so it's more likely a numberss issue).

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Hmm, I've only had two relationships, and I lived with both of them. It does make the break messy. I'm still missing many things I know I'll never get back (i miss my favorite hat :( ), but I can't imagine not living with the other person. It's even more tough when kids are involved. Now I know this is crazy, but I moved in with my last gf within a month of the time I started seeing her, and she had a daughter of 5 years. It wasn't long before I became Dad (a title which no boyfriend had had, including her past relationship of 3 years). I miss that little girl. I often find myself thinking about her, because she was mine. It only makes it worse that I worked the same place as this ex gf of mine, on opposite shifts, so I had to see her every single day. That makes for a hard break, especially when they see fit to show you pictures of the girl and talk about her like you don't know anything about her.

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It's a Saturday night and here I am, on the Firefly board, reading blogs, and pretty damn satisfied. I'd love a partner in crime, but right now I'm feeling pretty okay just with me.

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I'm usually pretty comfort

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There are no nice girls, we're all whores and harpies, didn't you get the memo? (J/K) We are all over this thread!!!

BTW: I am not a man-hater. I love men, all my friends are men (except 2 girls who are so anti-girl it's not funny), I just don't get men (but I'm still trying).

VistingMyIntentions: Go ahead, live with someone you aren't sure you're going to marry, but don't just stay together because it's easier than not. I know of some people who've ended up all 'happily ever after' after living together so it's totally possible. But I also know a lot of cohabitating dating people who are MISERABLE and who want out, but they have been living this way so long they are scared to go back out on their own, so they stay. That is lame IMHO. Grow a pair, reclaim your spine and venture out! It's way harder to get out when all your stuff is comingled and you are on the lease (as mentioned by Bruisersmom and ThatWierdGirl).

XeroGravity: Thanks apparently now I'm some sort of deep antisocial freak because I'm not with someone I don't like just because being alone is not noble? You make no sense! Man-whore is funny, but works, if I find something better, I'll let you know.

ThatWeirdGirl: Thanks for the suggestions. I went to a Buffy Con once, there were 4 guys there, 3 of them were gay (like it was gonna be a man-fest). It was very upsetting (but they were totally fun!). I think the cons thing works better if you live somewhere where they constantly occur, like California. Bumble-srew Wisconsin ain't cuttin' it on that front. ;)

Mai: Sorry if I made this un-fun. I still think it's a fun thread cos it's one of those things where you realize everyone is so in the same boat as you!!

LightMeDark: I totally agree with you on the 'either you know you will be together or not.' I don't get staying with someone you don't think you might want to be with forever. It seems trite to me as well. Maybe we're old-fashioned. I just don't see the point in dating to date, isn't the ultimate goal to find someone you want to be with? Eventually you know that to be true or not, if it is not, then why string it along? It seems so fake to me, so unfair to the other person. It's like dating so you aren't alone, it's stupid and selfish. If this person isn't the one, then cut them loose so both of you can find that special someone. I always wonder if after these relationships break up the people in them wonder if they missed out on 'the one' while they were with 'the one for right now.' Again that's just me and my old fuddy duddy ways.
Don't discount women who have slept around. I have slept with people I didn't love, but all of them still meant something to me. Then again I've never had a one night stand so I'm probably in the minority. I've slept with my friends (who then became lovers) but that doesn't make me slutty cos they were important men to me, and still are. One of them just broke my heart and I'm still friends with him cos if that's all I can have I guess it'll have to be enough. So I'm glad you are getting over judging this cos a lot of times girls get suckered into sleeping with guys (it happens, even to the smart ones), or think that putting out will get them somewhere with a man when it doesn't. It doesn't mean they were whores.

Bwah!
-old fuddy duddy
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
http://pluralofapocalypse.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Inara: "Do aliens live among us?"
Kaylee: "Yes. One of them's a doctor."

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just trying to bring a little levity to the thread, also its not false modesty
i'm an ok guy, but i'm known to be a self-serving a**hole, i just don't reviere myself enough to think i'm a great catch


On a good day, hell can look alot like LA.-Playing God

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Sorry guys and girls, let me clarify.

[BlackEyedGirl wrote:

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Sorry if I made this un-fun.

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You haven't made it un fun at all. I completely agree it is nice to know that there are other people who are sharing in these similar frustrations.


I wasn't trying to say that people shouldn't discuss the "nice" boy/girl thing in a serious manner. As much fun as we like to poke at the opposite sex, relationships can be a very touchy (oh for goodness sakes, get your mind out of the gutter!) subject for some people. I do whole-heartedly agree that being single is better than being in a relationship just for the sake of being in one and being miserable with that person. Being single is also better if your merely in love with the [italics]idea[/italics] of being in love. If you think that being single makes you week or freakish, I'd say you've got more complicated issues. There is a big difference in being alone and feeling lonely.

Xero, if you were attempting to be funny with your posts, sorry, I just took it the wrong way. If however you were being serious, let me just point you in the direction of an ancient adage that still holds true today. I can't remember the exact wording, but I think it goes something like:

If you can't say anything nice,
then shut the hell up.

***End Rant***

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*Walks in, gives Mai a big ole hug for being awesome, than walks back out.*

"Invader's blood marches through my veins like giant radioactive rubber pants. The pants command me! Do not ignore my veins!"

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Good suggestions on places to look for guys! A guy at comicon tried to talk to me but I got nervous. Oh! And to guys who want to know how not to approach a girl in public. I was sitting alone and this guy started out with questions like "Are you here alone? Where are you staying? Are you here alone?" etc. I don't really want a random guy knowing this kind of information when we've just exchanged names. You know, in case he's a serial murderer or a stalker. I would ask her how many panels she's seen and what she thinks of them and what brings her to comicon. But I digress.

We should swap guys if you ever are unattached again. You tend to run into guys that don't want kids; I tend to run into guys who do. In fact, one of the guys that I didn't marry wanted a bakers dozen. But you might not want that many. You can always correct me if I'm wrong and I can get you his number. He's a good looking, honest, hardworking man who gets along with his family and lives in a house overlooking the ocean in Malibu.

"You can keep a dog; but it is the cat who keeps people, because cats find humans useful domestic animals."--George Mikes

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I'm having fun with this thread.

BlackEyedGirl, I think you rock! You seem like a woman I could be friends with. And that's saying a lot, because most women confuse and/or annoy me. I can't relate to them on a fundamental level...most women have been dreaming about having kids since they WERE kids, and went as little brides on Halloween, and got a subscription to Brides magazine in the 8th grade, and have had their weddings planned down to every detail except for the actual identity of the groom since they were 14 (I'm totally serious...my roommate in college was like this.) I simply cannot understand/relate to this world view. And most women are so freakin' irrational it scares me. Women who are SO into drama and gossip and innuendo. I don't give a rat's ass what other people are doing, who's dating who, what other folks are saying about me, etc. I think gossip is destructive, and I can't stand women who live to collect little nasty bits of information about everyone around them.

This, I think, is why I've always had more guy friends than girl friends. Guys find me very easy to relate to, talk to, etc. It's the power tools, plus I don't give off that vibe of "I'm trying to picture you in a tux, standing behind our wedding cake" every time I talk to them.

So...I'll ask the emotionally mature, intelligent, single, non-man-whorish guys on this list...do you secretly like "typical females?" Do women like me (and BlackEyedGirl and others) actually frighten and intimidate you? Do you really prefer clingy and helpless, as long as she looks good naked?

Inquiring minds want to know!!!

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It's my job to incite powerful yearning in the hearts and loins of my clients. No, silly, I'm not a Companion...I work at an advertising agency.

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I'm at home or at work or at Browncoat get togethers in Los Angeles.

I don't go to bars anymore. Too many jerks. I don't go to church because I don't fit into any one branch of Christianity and yet they care about whether or not you believe what they believe about Christ. I don't go to clubs because I don't like to dance. At least, not that way. I like ballroom and swing dancing.

So, that's where I am and I'm a nice woman. I hope that I gave you some ideas Monkeytail.

"You can keep a dog; but it is the cat who keeps people, because cats find humans useful domestic animals."--George Mikes

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I know I'm an extreme case, but I think dating without the intention of ultimate commitment is trite and meaningless. It's hard for me to stomach. Now, I'm not saying that you go on every date with the intention that you're going to marry this person, but if after a reasonable amount of time you know that's something that is not in the future you share, it's time for it to be over. That's just how I feel about it.

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I share your perspective as far as my life goes, but I think the underlying principle is that people need to be on the same page regarding this. Marriage, like having children, is something most people want, but some aren't really concerned with - I don't see how that's a problem, as long as both people in the relationship are open with themselves and each other about their expectations.


Boarding another train of thought....

I'm generally a big fan of individual responsibility, but I think that societal expectations regarding sex really mess up relationships, especially for younger people. Whether XG was being serious or not, there is an expectation that men just want to "get some" - a lot of social groups offer negative reinforcement for males who violate this, and that's really sad. On the other hand, a lot of (and frequently the same) social groups label women "whores" who sleep with any guy before getting married. I don't think either extreme is appropriate, and I think this adds a lot of tension to our already complicated and stressful romantic lives.

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Here's another joke for you or anyone else who needs a laugh. It depends on how you feel about kids knowing words that they really shouldn't at such a young age.

One day the first grade teacher was reading the story of Chicken Little to her class. She came to the part of the story where Chicken Little tried
to warn the farmer. She read, ".... and so Chicken Little went up to the farmer and said, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"
The teacher paused then asked the class,
"And what do you think that farmer said?"
One little girl raised her hand and said,
"I think he said: 'Holy Shit! A talking chicken!'"
The teacher was unable to teach for the next 10 minutes.

Har. har. har.

"You can keep a dog; but it is the cat who keeps people, because cats find humans useful domestic animals."--George Mikes

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I'm definitely a goal-driven dater. I want to find the love of my life. I have plenty of other things that I'm busy with (professional associations, volunteer work, swing dancing, sci-fi cons, etc.) and if I'm going to take time out of my schedule, I'm not going to spend it dating a fundamentalist Christian or somebody who wants 8 kids or is a member of the Communist party or is a Star Wars fan who didn't want to see Serenity out of "loyalty" to their fandom. DUH! I'm an agnostic Libertarian who can't have kids, and the whole Serenity thing goes without saying, so why would I date a guy with whom I'm fundamentally incompatible? It would be a waste of my time and his, and there's always the danger that you'd actually fall in love with each other, and what does that get you? Heartbreak due to irreconcilable differences.

Plus, while you're busy dating someone who's just not right for you, Mr. I Really Am Right For You could walk on by when he sees you with some other guy and assumes you're unavailable.

I have a very scientific mind and I think of dating in the same way I think of most other things...goal orientation, return on investment, methodically, rationally working toward what I want. It's dreadfully un-girly.

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Originally posted by LfO: I know I'm an extreme case, but I think dating without the intention of ultimate commitment is trite and meaningless. It's hard for me to stomach.

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It's my job to incite powerful yearning in the hearts and loins of my clients. No, silly, I'm not a Companion...I work at an advertising agency.

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one more joke

a little girl walks into a pet shop. she's about seven and speaks with the most adorable lisp. she goes up to the clerk and asks if he has any mice.

the man bends down and asks her if she'd like a brown mice, a tan one a white one a black one a mixed one etc.. his generally condesending manner gets on the child's nerves and she explains

"i don't think my python really gives a fuck."

my math teacher told me that one!

oh and i went to a dating forum (like the kind with real people) last sunday and the guy there was really insightful and went over the whole history of dating and where women stood (one book he recommended was 'from the front porch to the backseat')

one interesting fact- 1/3 of people who will marry aren't by the age of 35. so it's not a matter of 'never' its a matter of 'soon'!

but then i'm 17, so i guess i don't get most of it. but hey it's allowed.

shakespeare: more words than God.

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Originally posted by BlackEyedGirl:
LightMeDark: I totally agree with you on the 'either you know you will be together or not.'
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Don't discount women who have slept around. I have slept with people I didn't love, but all of them still meant something to me. Then again I've never had a one night stand so I'm probably in the minority. I've slept with my friends (who then became lovers) but that doesn't make me slutty cos they were important men to me, and still are. One of them just broke my heart and I'm still friends with him cos if that's all I can have I guess it'll have to be enough. So I'm glad you are getting over judging this cos a lot of times girls get suckered into sleeping with guys (it happens, even to the smart ones), or think that putting out will get them somewhere with a man when it doesn't. It doesn't mean they were whores.

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I am trying to change as I said, but it is incredibly hard. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around. There are so many parts to this I don't really know where to begin or if I even should. I think, in part, it comes down to me being a jealous person. Say, if I were to date you I'd find it extremely difficult to handle you having almost all male friends (especially knowing you've slept with them in the past before they were more than friends). To me it seems like I would be setting myself up for hurt because a repeat performance can't be far off. As I see there being nothing worse in this world that one can do to another than cheat on them (besides obvious things like killing, etc.), I think that's a big part of it. If one has slept with another they didn't have feelings of love with before I feel it's inevitably going to happen again. It's as if sex was more important than love (now I know sex is important, for all my eccentricity, I am most definitely male and sex does cross my mind as constantly as any woman has ever suspected). And this all ties in with drugs/alcohol because that usually encourages such behavior or inebriates you to the point you are indiscriminate. There are volumes more I could put forth on the subject (thank goodness for friends willing to listen to your blathering), but I think I've said enough to give a rough impression of where I stand.

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Originally posted by monkeytail:
just trying to bring a little levity to the thread, also its not false modesty
i'm an ok guy, but i'm known to be a self-serving a**hole, i just don't reviere myself enough to think i'm a great catch

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Haha, I was also trying to bring levity...I was messing with you hence the :p. I think it's worth a mention that I do (most of the time) feel like I'm a great catch, yet I don't really revere myself at all. I think the only thing I take satisfaction in is my loyalty, honesty, and strict adherence to what I believe.

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Originally posted by KayleeWannabee:
This, I think, is why I've always had more guy friends than girl friends. Guys find me very easy to relate to, talk to, etc. It's the power tools, plus I don't give off that vibe of "I'm trying to picture you in a tux, standing behind our wedding cake" every time I talk to them.

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It's true, every woman I've asked on the subject of whether they prefer to work with males or females invariably answers male. My last job was in a department full of women (I was one of the only males, often the only male on my shift...not an enviable position as some men with no experience of it might think ;D). The backstabbing and gossip and just general unpleasantness was rather harsh, not to mention the odd fact that a large group of women working together usually get on the same "schedule" if you follow me. That was always a bad time of month. I would have been destroyed, surely, if I had not been so loved and adored by my coworkers.

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So...I'll ask the emotionally mature, intelligent, single, non-man-whorish guys on this list...do you secretly like "typical females?" Do women like me (and BlackEyedGirl and others) actually frighten and intimidate y

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Originally posted by KayleeWannabee:
I have a very scientific mind and I think of dating in the same way I think of most other things...goal orientation, return on investment, methodically, rationally working toward what I want. It's dreadfully un-girly.

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Sounds sexy to me.

Okay, my last two cents to this thread, and seriously.

Girls, be friendly. Get to know everyone. Talk A LOT. Make tons of guy-friends. A lot of times, guys who likes you might introduce you to guys they think could LOVE you (this assumes you make tons of NICE guy-friends).
Hot burns out fast. Long lasting love starts with friendship.

(Same advise for guys-reversed. Same advise for gay guys and girls-just, er, sorta put it on it's side....you know what I mean...)

Chrisisall, Dear Abby in space

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Ignore this post it's long and boring:

KayleeWannabee wrote:

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So...I'll ask the emotionally mature, intelligent, single, non-man-whorish guys on this list...do you secretly like "typical females?" Do women like me (and BlackEyedGirl and others) actually frighten and intimidate you? Do you really prefer clingy and helpless, as long as she looks good naked?

...

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Well..I think I qualify except maybe occassionally on the first point. The majority of "typical females" bore me. The few that don't, show some indication that they aren't completely "typical". Knowing only what I've read here and a bit on BEGs blog, No. Not Frightening. Clingy and helpless? Not appealing. I'm looking for a "partner in crime." One that will share in or at least tolerate my interests. She won't worry when I go to the pub, that maybe I'm doing something I shouldn't. Mainly 'Cause she'll be sitting beside me pounding away the pints with me. She won't worry when I'm with my friends cause she'll know them too. We don't have to do everything together, we trust when we're not together. I don't cheat. I feel that if you love someone, you don't think of others that way. If you start thinking of someone else that way, you aren't loving the person you're "with". You should let them know it's over before you move on.
I agree on the points made about "wasting time" dating people that you aren't into. I'm alone. not lonely. Used to be. I spent a lot of time "looking". I've only met a small number of people that I was really "into". And a very small number of them were into me. Finding a match as far as being "into" each other is tough, being compatible in interests in addition to that makes things even tougher. I think too many people "settle" or get together for the wrong reason. I don't want to make that mistake. I may die a single, never married, very alone person. At least I won't have wasted someone else's time being in a relationship for the sake of being in a relationship.
So, "Typical female"? no thanks. I'm not a typical male. What would I Want with a typical female? I want a relationship (If I find someone compatible) not a role in the life game.
As for previous statements of guys only wanting one thing...Again not a typical male. Now to be fair, and honest, sure that's wanted, but as part of the package deal. That's a part of a romantic relationship. It's a part that shouldn't be ignored, neglected, and should be openly discussed and explored. It's not the only part. I'm selfish. I want the whole relationship, not just a part. Having just one part without the rest makes the whole thing hollow. Not fun.
Sorry for the longwinded boring stuff.
Best of luck to all Browncoats in finding the one.

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"Dreaming the dream that only the sleepless know."
"Say you understand me, And I will leave myself completely.
Forgive me if I stare, But I can see the island behind your tired, troubled eyes." -Fantastic Place (Marbles) -Marillion

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CallMeAth wrote:
Sunday, November 20, 2005 15:01
*Walks in, gives Mai a big ole hug for being awesome, than walks back out.*

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Awww, thanks, I needed that

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Hello Kellaina

So a man called you a whore for refusing to "dirty dance" with him. And you did what?

You walked away? C'mon... fight for your honor... knee to the nuts, claw out his eyes, force him to listen to Yanni. Women are the masters of ruthless combat.

Do you lack all compulsion to defend youself? If you're not a whore you defend your honor and go down fighting. If real men are in the room, they won't let a woman take a beating. And unless you're at a frat party at MIT or a bar in Southern California, there are real men present. Your defenders (whether they win or not) are the men you should be dancing with. Not the gucci Gotti-wannabe who calls you a whore, and pronounces "gangster" as "gangsta" ~ just gotta be suburban white kids. Pimpin ain't easy.

If none of the above applies, eat it up. You are what you eat, and if a man calls you a whore and you don't go down swinging, guess what...

Do I even need to finish that sentence?

You've prolly never seen a real bar fight, filled with men who fight other men over women (ya honor counts). Or you go dancing in the lowliest most vile clubs on the face of the Earth (we used to call them meatmarkets). The only fighting that goes on there is between guys not trying to defend a woman's honor... they're just protecting their pissing ground. Don't go trashin my bitches and ho's.

Or, you're a whore.

One of the above applies to you. Could care less which one it is, but one of them most definately "is". If you take namecalling like that from a man without fighting then you got what you deserved.

XG

ps ~ if anyone ever claimed I love music from Barry Manilow, I'd tear their face off with my teeth and put their entire family on the K-mart mailing list. It's an honor thing.


No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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LMD: Just so you know, us ballsy brazen types are often pretty damn traditional when it comes down to it. I have NEVER cheated, nor would I ever cheat. I'm a one man kinda gal (actually I just got dumped cos I asked him to not sleep with other women, which was something he hadn't really done but which apparently was just too much for me to ask) If it came down to that I would leave who ever I was with, because if I want someone else that bad then I probably shouldn't be in a relationship anymore. I've never had sex with someone I didn't respect, and to me that is just as important as love. Also, yeah I've slept with pretty much all my male friends (except the gays) and I can honestly say I wouldn't go back and do it again, especially if I had a boyfriend. Jealousy will get you in a lot of trouble, because a lot of times it springs a red flag with the ladies (it does for me cos of bad past experiences), mostly because it shows you don't trust them. I always say I will trust you from day one until you prove my trust unfounded. I think you'll be okay the more women you get to know cos you will see that we are trust worthy even with past indescretions.

KayleeWannaBe! You are so the kinda woman I could hang with. If you are ever in the Wisconsin area we need to get coffee and schmaltz (thats talk). Feel free to email me through my blog to talk about life and loves and all things cats ;) I don't have time for the tiresome shit most women care about. I'm also very scientific (I'm a scientist so, duh), and very much of the 'what if I miss the one when I'm with someone I'm not meant to be with?'

From what I can tell, even when guys say that they don't want the clingy needy soul sucker that's what they want because it makes them feel important and manly (no offense to any man on here this is just from what I have seen). They love the idea of a woman who is independant and self sufficient and non-jealous and what not, but when it comes down to it they still want a June Cleaver (funny thing is I am so domestic it's sickening, I love to cook and sew and all that girly crap) who looks like Pamela Anderson. I mean I can shoot an AK-47 with perfect accuracy and look terrific in a dress an hour later, but that's not what they want. They want to hang out with that girl, and use that girl for a date for weddings and crap, but they don't actually want to be with her no matter how cool they think she is. They want a girly girl who dresses like a skank, who they can show off to their friends, who laughs at their lame jokes, and who doesn't stimulate them anywhere except in their pants. I was actually told the following: you are a friend, a cohort, a member of the gang. i care deeply for you and our friendship. because of this i sacrifice intimacy with the hope that our friendship will persevere This is man language for 'it was fun, but i don't actually see you as a girl.'

This is not to rag on girly girls. There are lots that don't suck. I've met one or two and they were adorable and I can see why every man I knew wanted them. They were helpless and cute and precious and all the things I can't be cos I have to take care of myself. There is no one else to do it for me. I'm an only child and I'm self sufficient. I'm a survivor, throw it at me, I can handle it.

I am totally convinced this is why I love Inara and Kaylee so much (look at that seg-way to Firefly!). They are both pretty independant, know what they want and for the most part take it. Then again they both pine after men who want them but who are just idiots. I only wish that occasionally one of my crushes liked me like that just a tiny bit.

Also just to explain my situation, I moved up here to the great northwoods a year ago, I have made no friends (I tried I really did, the people aren't that friendly), I barely leave my apartment unless I am going home to Milwaukee to see my friends who I desperately miss and whom I am constantly tempted to rejoin via quitting my job and moving back home. So it's hard to meet anyone, I've tried the comic book stores and the t

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L MY GORRAM A OFF, BlackEyedGirl!

You gotta get OUT of the North Woods, girlfriend!

As a grad of the School of Really, Seriously I Mean Really Hard Knocks, I can also take care of myself to the Nth degree, but it is SOOOOO refreshing to just let go and be taken care of. And I'm an amazing girly-girl caretaker under the right circumstances.

I'm just going to hang in there and hope for the best. I find that as I improve as a person, so does the quality of the people who come into my life. Each boyfriend has been a step up on the evolutionary ladder, so to speak, starting with pond scum way back in college. The most recent one could pass as Homo Sapiens, but it turned out he was more Neanderthalish but without quite as pronounced a brow ridge.

So I"m continually working on improving ME through reading and seminars and introspection and whatnot (I highly recommend The Work of Byron Katie...it will change your life) and I find as I have become more confident and secure, I've become less clingy and jealous.

My pet theory is that jealousy is more of a problem with oneself, not what one's partner is doing. My other pet theory is that you get (manifest) whatever you spend most of your time & energy thinking about. So if you're a jealous guy, and you spend most of your time imagining your honey's cheating on you, and you treat her accordingly (no trust, false accusations, tantrums, manipulation, etc.) well, then, buddy, you're going to force her to go looking for someone who trusts her...which apparently ain't you, so you're setting the stage for exactly what you don't want, which is her leaving you or cheating on you! Ironic, no?

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It's my job to incite powerful yearning in the hearts and loins of my clients. No, silly, I'm not a Companion...I work at an advertising agency.

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Originally posted by BlackEyedGirl:
LMD: Just so you know, us ballsy brazen types are often pretty damn traditional when it comes down to it. I have NEVER cheated, nor would I ever cheat. I'm a one man kinda gal (actually I just got dumped cos I asked him to not sleep with other women, which was something he hadn't really done but which apparently was just too much for me to ask) If it came down to that I would leave who ever I was with, because if I want someone else that bad then I probably shouldn't be in a relationship anymore. I've never had sex with someone I didn't respect, and to me that is just as important as love. Also, yeah I've slept with pretty much all my male friends (except the gays) and I can honestly say I wouldn't go back and do it again, especially if I had a boyfriend. Jealousy will get you in a lot of trouble, because a lot of times it springs a red flag with the ladies (it does for me cos of bad past experiences), mostly because it shows you don't trust them. I always say I will trust you from day one until you prove my trust unfounded. I think you'll be okay the more women you get to know cos you will see that we are trust worthy even with past indescretions.

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For some people (most it seems), they just want the sex and excitement while still loving the one they're with. We, you and me, obviously don't get that sort of behaviour. On the sleeping with most of your male friends bit, I couldn't do it. I know lots of guys would like a f*** buddy, but I'm not one of them. I still can't stand the sight of either of my ex gfs, and I don't think I ever will be able to. Once I've been inside, for lack of a better term, I can never go back to being anything less.

You're right, it does show that I don't trust them. I can't anymore, and I know I can't be in a relationship because of it. I've always been misanthropic, but after what my first gf did I'm not sure I will ever be able to trust anyone ever again. That's one of the reasons I'm so down...I know I'm not fit for a relationship right now, and I'm not sure if I ever will be. The best I can do right now is what one of my chick friends told me a bit after my second break up: You just have to think that whether you trust them or not, they'll do what they want anyways so why worry about it? If they're going to cheat they're going to cheat, so why bother getting paranoid about it? Of course there are valid answers to this, but there you go. I'd also add that most people I've talked to say they don't completely trust their partner or at the very least get nervous when they go out alone.

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From what I can tell, even when guys say that they don't want the clingy needy soul sucker that's what they want because it makes them feel important and manly (no offense to any man on here this is just from what I have seen). They love the idea of a woman who is independant and self sufficient and non-jealous and what not... They want to hang out with that girl, and use that girl for a date for weddings and crap, but they don't actually want to be with her no matter how cool they think she is. They want a girly girl who dresses like a skank, who they can show off to their friends

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I hope this wasn't directed at me ;D. I don't love the idea of a self sufficient, independant and non-jealous girl...I'm actually turned on by a girl's jealousy. It means they care enough about me that they worry. I'd also like to add that most girly girls I've known dress much more respectably than a lot of the other girls.

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I am totally convinced this is why I love Inara and Kaylee so much (look at that seg-way to Firefly!). They are both pretty independant, know what they want and for the most part take it. Then again they both pine after men who want them but who are just idiots. I only wish that occasionally one of my crushes liked me like that just a tiny bit.

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Ever since Out of Gas (a superb ep, btw), I've had more trouble liking Kaylee because of the scene in the engine room. She's more or less s

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They're sittin at home on a Sunday night writing
movie scripts, trying to understand why all the women they've ever met are completely insane.

Well, I don't know if I qualify as nice...

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seg-way is spelled segue

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Wouldn't it be segue-way? When did this become a spelling bee??? Could you please give it to me (not like that pervs) in a sentence?

KayleeWannaBe
The people in Northern Wisconsin are very friendly, but in that way you are to tourists. The actual problem is that people in Wausau (not necessarily the whole Northwoods) are not fond of outsiders. If you were born, raised, and settled here you can have lots of friends. If you are an import they look at you like you are on fire. This would explain why every single person who has trained in my position at work, at the first chance transferred to our Milwaukee or Madison offices. The girl before me claimed she was 31 and there was no way in hell she was going to rot away in this town, she was moving someplace where she could meet people her own age who didn't have a herd of kids and who looked at her like she was on fire.

The funny thing is, the longer you live up here, the more you think it is you that is all weird and strange and not the locals (although this is insane logic, and every time you leave town this is affirmed). Although I am weird and strange, but not in that 'town freak' sort of way, moreso in a quirky eccentric way. Then again I found Frog Legs at the grocery store the other day and it really freaked me out, I had to question just how close to actual civilization I was living.

The evolution of boyfriends:
Stage 1: Primordial Sludge (that first cheesy early high school boyfriend)
Stage 2: Pond Scum (cheesy high school boyfriend with no car and no job)
Stage 3: Fishes (post high school BF with no car and no job)
Stage 4: Amphibians (college-ish first real adult-ish realtionship, he either has no car or no job)
Stage 5: Birds (post-college real adult relationship, he probably has no car and a really crappy job, emotional maturity of a sponge)
Stage 6: Mammals (Man with an entry level job and a crap car but who still has wierd rock-god fantasies or still has strange bachelor forever fantasies)
Stage 7: Apes (Man who has kinda grown up (but not too much, cos he's still fun) but with a good car and good job who's ready to settle down, just not with you)
Stage 8: Homo Sapiens! Hooray! Its a real human being!! You will probably marry this one.

Between Stages 7 and 8 is where a lot of us get stuck, cos there's a buncha almost perfects in there.

Also insects are always around. Insects being those assholes who are abusive, and evil and stuff (although I actuall love bugs, its just a metaphor, cos like bugs these jerks are every where), guys who don't deserve to breathe let alone breed.

Now I've gotta admit, I'm no buddha on the mountain top. I have what you (lightmedark) would probably call loose morals. Just remember what is more important are the lessons a person takes away from any one mistake or accident or intentional (but questionable) move. If a person did something that from your ivory tower seems horrible, find out what they learned from it, cos if it was real bad, they learned a lesson. What is awesome about humans is we are able to take our experiences, learn from them and reapply them to the future. Of course we can also apply those lessons badly, or hold a grudge or let something break us too, but for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, I believe this tenent of science to be true in most things.

LMD: I think you should go work at a homeless shelter or some place with a lot of people who I can tell you would look down upon, get to know them and their lives and their stories. Cos the more you do the more you will realize you truely cannot judge a book by its cover. People are always more than they appear to be.

BTW: Sarcasm is one of those things that cannot be accurately conveyed over the internet. When I talk about soul sucking slut-bombs I'm mostly doing it in a humorous way, there are women like this, but mostly it's just me generalizing, cos I can and I think it's funny (I've got a real twisted sense of humor). Mind you I'm blonde and have been known to wear slutty clothes (but I've never sucked a soul, I

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LightMeDark: I developed my pet theories as a result of living them, and believe me, if I can turn my life around, anyone can. I'm being 100% serious (for once.) I used to be the jealous harpy who pushed my boyfriend into the arms of someone a lot nicer, friendlier, and more trusting than myself thanks to my own insecurity and low self-esteem.

After that boyfriend "victimized" me by cheating, I gave up on men altogether and didn't date for a few years. Then I had a horrible tragedy happen in my life and I lost my mind. (This turned out to be a good thing...it wasn't that great a mind anyway.) So, I got the opportunity to start over from scratch, and I had to decide..."same crap life as before" vs "an amazing new life of my own creation". Well, if you have a CHOICE, (and you do!) wouldn't you choose the latter??

I agree, you have a defeatist attitude, and perhaps you're not in enough pain (yet) to decide that you want to change. Unfortunately, we humans are stubborn and often need to hit rock bottom before we get enough motivation to do something different.

Anyhoo, what helped me more than anything else is NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) and The Work of Byron Katie. The Work is available free online at www.thework.com. Click on "Resources" then "Introduction" and take it from there. There are a lot of great NLP resources out there. Right now I'm really into Change Your Life in 7 Days by Paul McKenna.

It all came down to one realization for me...if I didn't like (or love) myself, if I didn't respect myself, if I didn't take care of myself, if I didn't enjoy being with me, it was insanity to expect anyone else to!

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Originally posted by LightMeDark:
I know I have a big problem, which I don't think can ever really be resolved. Defeatist or fatalistic? Maybe. Realistic? Yes.

I think it's great that I can pinpoint all of my problems and realize that they are problems, but I can't seem to do anything about it. Maybe it's that I haven't completely rooted out the source of the problems, but I find that a little hard to believe. For being a fairly well grounded person (some would describe me as too grounded), I can't seem to make things right.

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Originally posted by KayleeWannabee:
My pet theory is that jealousy is more of a problem with oneself, not what one's partner is doing. My other pet theory is that you get (manifest) whatever you spend most of your time & energy thinking about. So if you're a jealous guy, and you spend most of your time imagining your honey's cheating on you, and you treat her accordingly (no trust, false accusations, tantrums, manipulation, etc.) well, then, buddy, you're going to force her to go looking for someone who trusts her...which apparently ain't you, so you're setting the stage for exactly what you don't want, which is her leaving you or cheating on you! Ironic, no?

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It's my job to incite powerful yearning in the hearts and loins of my clients. No, silly, I'm not a Companion...I work at an advertising agency.

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XeroGravity-do you read what you write? Because, really, you've put your foot in it this time.

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Originally posted by XeroGravity:


Women are whores, men are users.

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Do you lack all compulsion to defend youself? If you're not a whore you defend your honor and go down fighting.

C'mon... fight for your honor... knee to the nuts, claw out his eyes, force him to listen to Yanni. Women are the masters of ruthless combat.

If you take namecalling like that from a man without fighting then you got what you deserved.

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By your own admission, I should be kicking you in the groin right now.

"Faint heart never won fair maiden", but neither has "foul mouth". I know I'm not the only one that has found some of the things you've said to be very offensive and insensitive.

Now everyone has a right to voice their own opinion, I can't stop you. So I'm just going to ask you, ever so nicely, to please think before you next post.

Thank you very much.


P.S.It's spelled "probably".

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

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Originally posted by KayleeWannabee:
So...I'll ask the emotionally mature, intelligent, single, non-man-whorish guys on this list...

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Well, two out of four is. . . Well, it's something.

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do you secretly like "typical females?"

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Hell no. As I told the witch(*) I dated in high school: Normal girls are boring.

(* Not a personal editorial, she was a wiccan.)

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Do women like me (and BlackEyedGirl and others) actually frighten and intimidate you?

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A bit, and that's part of the charm.

I want a girl who's classy, geeky, highly intelligent, sophisticated, whimsical, critical (in the analytical sense), eloquent, doesn't mind junk food, watches cartoons and animé, likes sci-fi, plays video games, believes in the paranormal, wears a lot of black, won't try to get me drunk (I don't drink, don't feel the need to encourage me to, 'cause it'll just annoy me), and is okay with sitting together on the couch watching (way too much) TV.

People have told me my standards are too high. I usually reply that theirs are too low.

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Do you really prefer clingy and helpless, as long as she looks good naked?

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Clingy and helpless is usually only good to show off to. Regardless of our loyalty, devotion, or anything else, all guys like bein' able to show off from time to time. Doesn't necessarily mean anything's gonna come of it, it's just an ego thing. I'm confident this is just about universal.

If you can't do something constructive with your life, you should at least be able to do something that'll make people go "woah. . . That was AWESOME!!!"

. . . and then call the ambulance.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Note to XG about that "defending one's honor" stuff.

I'll defend my person and my property...but the state of my "honor" (whatever the hell that is!) is not affected by the opinions of those who would label me. The whole sticks and stones thing.

Calling me a whore, makes me....uhm, completely unchanged, and just my regular old self, and it makes you a guy that would call someone he doesn't even know a whore. So which one of us comes off looking better?

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It's my job to incite powerful yearning in the hearts and loins of my clients. No, silly, I'm not a Companion...I work at an advertising agency.

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Is anyone tired of my quite large posts yet? haha

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Originally posted by BlackEyedGirl:
Wouldn't it be segue-way? When did this become a spelling bee??? Could you please give it to me (not like that pervs) in a sentence?

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Yeah, it's segue...as in that was a smooth segue from the topic at hand to that of Firefly.

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The evolution of boyfriends:
Stage 1: Primordial Sludge (that first cheesy early high school boyfriend)
...
Stage 8: Homo Sapiens! Hooray! Its a real human being!! You will probably marry this one.

Between Stages 7 and 8 is where a lot of us get stuck, cos there's a buncha almost perfects in there.

---

I've always been at stage 8 more or less. I didn't date until I was 21. These views that I've outlined of mine, I've always had them. Being a military brat I never felt it right to get into a relationship due to there being no way of making it permanent, due to moving and minority. At 21 I was finally in a spot I had no reason to believe I'd be leaving anytime soon. I'm definitely not perfect (see trust and ivory tower issues).

On the issue of me being alone in my ivory tower...It's odd, no? I have no love for myself, but I can look down on others. How does that work? I think I've figured out why. I think it comes down to me wishing I was more like the throngs of people sinning in the courts below. Ignorance is bliss. I feel cursed with my intelligence. I wish I could have fun. I wish I didn't feel guilty about every pleasure in my life. So that's it. I would have self esteem if I didn't long to be like the masses.

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Now I've gotta admit, I'm no buddha on the mountain top. I have what you (lightmedark) would probably call loose morals. Just remember what is more important are the lessons a person takes away from any one mistake or accident or intentional (but questionable) move. If a person did something that from your ivory tower seems horrible, find out what they learned from it, cos if it was real bad, they learned a lesson.
...
LMD: I think you should go work at a homeless shelter or some place with a lot of people who I can tell you would look down upon, get to know them and their lives and their stories. Cos the more you do the more you will realize you truely cannot judge a book by its cover. People are always more than they appear to be.

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Yes, you probably do (i think it's funny that you didn't capitalize any letters in my name now that your opinion of me has probably lessened ;p). I remember after reading your first post in this thread, long ago ;D, I was appalled. It seems people just make the same mistakes over and over again (no matter how bad). People don't learn. Look at me, I may have learned but nothing has changed...i'm still jealous, extremely over analytical, and aloof (funny as i put others above myself in most all things).

It's odd that my cousin and I get along as we do, the fact that only my mother is more important to me. He is what you call a man-whore, he's racist and sexist, and any number of other uncouth things. He is more or less the person and behaviour I loath. I often joke with him that with our two wildly different perspectives on all things (well, not all...we seem more or less the same people raised in different environments) that we see any problem from every angle and are unstoppable together for it.

As for the homeless shelter thing...I already work at a huge place full of people I probably look down upon for their moral decisions. It seems like hook up central where everyone has slept with everyone else, and there's nothing wrong with it. That's the atmosphere, anyway. I don't see how a homeless shelter could be more full of people I have such issue with. In fact I suspect there would be much less. I can't see how people, especially those that are homeless, would be more likely to be as loose as those that work where I do. As you can probably tell by now, it's sexual morals that I take greatest issue with. Other things are all of much lesser concern

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I'd just like to lend my support to KayleeWannabee - sounds like XG's been sniffing the Pax...

I'm not exactly sure how a verbal insult justifies physical violence - the finger, yes, but violence, no.

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Marry me right now CyberSnark. Please. It can be like one of those arranged marriages only where we already like the same things. Cos your list + my list = like the same!

I hate being told my standards are too high. When I was without standards everyone gave me shit, now thta I have standards everyone gives me shit. Can't win!

You Go CallMeSerenity!!!

LightMeDark the capitalization was not intentional, I got real lazy. Also you have the superior inferiority complex, you think you are better than everyone else, but still think you suck. Most of us suffer from this. And yea, being smart does suck (I don't get how being highly intelligent is tied to the sex-issue thing. Most of the really really genius people I know are the most sexually open minded and stuff, there's been a lot research done that correlates this, so I don't know if you are using intelligence as an excuse to sit in your ivory tower or not). I wish stupidity were painful cos then at least they might off themselves and make the world a better place for every one (yeah I'm mean). I only hang with the smarties cos the dumbies can only be entertaining for so long.

Also, dude, you are only 23, your views and stuff are going to change so much the more life experience you get (also the more relationship experience you get). I'm only 3 years older, but at 23 I was 2 years out of the worst relationship ever (trust me I've got you all beat), I didn't leave the house, was clinically depressed and watched too much TV and played too many board games. 3 years later I'm like a totally different person, but that's because I willed myself to be as such. I got out of the house and got back into the world. Being cloistered was killing me, but I was scared and full of judgements and misgivings and trusted no one. But then I realized this wasn't who I was, I am not that person, I was made that person and I could unmake it too. So I did, and now I'm back to my rockin' super cool ballsy girly self.

KayleeWannaBe: I got your back girl, go for it! Although I'm with you on the, bein' called a whore, when I know it ain't true don't really effect me one way or the other.

But seriously CyberSnark, MARRY ME!!! We can make this work! I swear it!


Black Eyed Gurl



*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
http://pluralofapocalypse.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Inara: "Do aliens live among us?"
Kaylee: "Yes. One of them's a doctor."

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Hello XeroGravity

Quote:

---

Originally posted by XeroGravity:
Hello Kellaina

So a man called you a whore for refusing to "dirty dance" with him. And you did what?

You walked away? C'mon... fight for your honor... knee to the nuts, claw out his eyes, force him to listen to Yanni. Women are the masters of ruthless combat.

---

If women are the masters of ruthless combat, then doesn't the fact that I refused to fight him actually somewhat emasculating? Just a thought. Oh, and I didn't walk away, I and the guy I was with told him to screw off and he walked away.

Besides, he was drunk, it wouldn't have been a fair fight .

Quote:

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Do you lack all compulsion to defend youself? If you're not a whore you defend your honor and go down fighting. If real men are in the room, they won't let a woman take a beating. And unless you're at a frat party at MIT or a bar in Southern California, there are real men present. Your defenders (whether they win or not) are the men you should be dancing with. Not the gucci Gotti-wannabe who calls you a whore, and pronounces "gangster" as "gangsta" ~ just gotta be suburban white kids. Pimpin ain't easy.

---

Well around here starting a fight is likely to get all the "real men" who rush to my aid arrested. Plus there's always the chance one of these surburban white "gangsta" kids is going to pull out some sort of weapon. And I'm not kidding.

Quote:

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If none of the above applies, eat it up. You are what you eat, and if a man calls you a whore and you don't go down swinging, guess what...

Do I even need to finish that sentence?

---

Since when does any woman have to prove she's not a whore? The reason I originally responded to your post was to question the use of and meaning behind that word, I really don't think you understand what I've been trying to say. 'Whore' is a word used to denegrate women, often without cause. Girl won't dance/kiss/have sex with you? She must be a whore.

To me, that kind of thinking is sad.

Quote:

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You've prolly never seen a real bar fight, filled with men who fight other men over women (ya honor counts). Or you go dancing in the lowliest most vile clubs on the face of the Earth (we used to call them meatmarkets). The only fighting that goes on there is between guys not trying to defend a woman's honor... they're just protecting their pissing ground. Don't go trashin my bitches and ho's.

---

I live in a college town. There are no 'real bars' here. Just meatmarkets. Which, for the record is why I rarely go.

And why is this relevant anyway? Are you actually making a point or just trying to make me angry?

Quote:

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Or, you're a whore.

---

Gee, thanks. That means a whole lot coming from you. *rolls eyes*

Quote:

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One of the above applies to you. Could care less which one it is, but one of them most definately "is". If you take namecalling like that from a man without fighting then you got what you deserved.

---

Fighting back and making a huge deal out of it only justifies the usage of it.

And maybe the guy was just trying to provoke a response? Sure looks like that's what you're doing.

Quote:

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ps ~ if anyone ever claimed I love music from Barry Manilow, I'd tear their face off with my teeth and put their entire family on the K-mart mailing list. It's an honor thing.

---

*is tempted*

And thank you CallMeSerenity and KayleeWannabee; you both said aspects of what I wanted to say much more eloquently and nicely than the way I would have said it!

edit: missed a markup
Hell with this; I'm gonna live! - Kaylee "Serenity"

If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. -"Angel"

Browncoat? Canadian? Join us:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/canadianbrowncoats/

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Cybersnark wrote:

Quote:

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I want a girl who's classy, geeky, highly intelligent, sophisticated, whimsical, critical (in the analytical sense), eloquent, doesn't mind junk food, watches cartoons and animé, likes sci-fi, plays video games, believes in the paranormal, wears a lot of black, won't try to get me drunk (I don't drink, don't feel the need to encourage me to, 'cause it'll just annoy me), and is okay with sitting together on the couch watching (way too much) TV.

People have told me my standards are too high. I usually reply that theirs are too low.
...

---

Crap, We're looking for the same girl. 'Cept she can feel free to get me drunk and take advantage of me.

Quote:

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If you can't do something constructive with your life, you should at least be able to do something that'll make people go "woah. . . That was AWESOME!!!"

. . . and then call the ambulance.

...

---

Reminds me of the "famous last words" of the typical Redneck male......"Hey man, watch this...."


Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"Dreaming the dream that only the sleepless know."
"Say you understand me, And I will leave myself completely.
Forgive me if I stare, But I can see the island behind your tired, troubled eyes." -Fantastic Place (Marbles) -Marillion

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BlackEyedGirl wrote:

Quote:

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I wish stupidity were painful cos then at least they might off themselves and make the world a better place for every one (yeah I'm mean). ...

---

You, ummm...wow. You're perfect. I must now retire to find a way to make stupidity painful, fatal would be better, but I can work with painful.

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"Dreaming the dream that only the sleepless know."
"Say you understand me, And I will leave myself completely.
Forgive me if I stare, But I can see the island behind your tired, troubled eyes." -Fantastic Place (Marbles) -Marillion

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It's a great thread Mai. It's a crying shame that I can only get about a third of the way through it and then my computer starts making like a jammed printer.
As much as I would like to, I can't tell you where the nice guys hang out. There is no fraternal order of nice guys. It isn't something that they tend to bond around. If you want to know if a guy is nice you best ask for refferences.
Someone said something about wether or not they get moist eyed to a certain movie. That isn't a real test, the guy could just be a sap.

Blackeyedgirl: For god sake, don't settle! There is no sin in being over thirty and single. If you have to kiss some frogs on the way to finding your prince then do it and protect yourself on the way. There are always snakes in the grass out there just pretending to be nice guys, so beware!
Thre is a possible third option between settlers and fighters: lawyers. Lawyers will fight like gladiators till they decide suddenly to settle.

Some of the qualities that have been listed seem almost contradictory. Having a spine and being willing to compromise? Hey I let the small stuff slide because what's the point of fighting over a toothpaste cap. If she wants the seat down fine. If there is something I want my way I ask first. I haven't had to insist yet in any of my recent relationships.
Am I a nice guy? I don't feel I'm qualified to answer that question.


Scorp

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by BlackEyedGirl:
you have the superior inferiority complex, you think you are better than everyone else, but still think you suck. Most of us suffer from this. And yea, being smart does suck (I don't get how being highly intelligent is tied to the sex-issue thing. Most of the really really genius people I know are the most sexually open minded and stuff, there's been a lot research done that correlates this, so I don't know if you are using intelligence as an excuse to sit in your ivory tower or not). I wish stupidity were painful cos then at least they might off themselves and make the world a better place for every one (yeah I'm mean).

---

Ah, mostly right I suppose. There are plenty of people I see as above me. I know it's me there is something wrong with. My views are deeply set, though. I've had attractive women more or less tell me they want to have sex with me when I'm completely drunk, but I don't waver from my values. It's just a part of who I am...I fear to ever turn my back on that I destroy myself and belittle the life I've led to that point (which is probably worth belittling). On the stupidity part...yeah. I've told people before that if I knew that my death would wipe out the human race, I'd sacrifice it in an instant.

I didn't intend to construe that my intelligence has anything to do with my views. I'd certainly never even thought of it. I find it odd (and completely logical at the same time) that genius people tend to be the most open about sex. Perhaps it's just my particular mix of traits. There are a couple of things here that bother me. I won't go into them as they may be too explicit for a public forum.

I don't have an excuse for sitting alone in my ivory tower.

Quote:

---

Also, dude, you are only 23, your views and stuff are going to change so much the more life experience you get (also the more relationship experience you get). I'm only 3 years older, but at 23 I was 2 years out of the worst relationship ever (trust me I've got you all beat), I didn't leave the house, was clinically depressed and watched too much TV and played too many board games. 3 years later I'm like a totally different person, but that's because I willed myself to be as such. I got out of the house and got back into the world. Being cloistered was killing me, but I was scared and full of judgements and misgivings and trusted no one. But then I realized this wasn't who I was, I am not that person, I was made that person and I could unmake it too. So I did, and now I'm back to my rockin' super cool ballsy girly self.

---

By your thought (and my own admission) I've no right to even have a relationship at this point, right? I won't be getting any more relationship experience unless I have the bad judgement of letting someone get involved with me.

I dont want anyones pity, I only say this for perspective. People always freak about this stuff and think it's so sad, but it's normal for me. The taboo over discussing ones problems doesn't stay me. I was diagnosed clinically depressed right around my 9th birthday, as bipolar sometime later. I know my psychosis is small time, but it still colors everything for me. I really haven't changed in any fundamental way. Sure, I've changed. Everyone changes...but for the most part the views I have now are more or less the same ones I've nearly always had (albeit in a more childish fashion before). Sure, despite myself I do think something will change in the next few years. It has to. I just dont' see how. I really almost have to have something traumatic happen to change. I'm so deeply set in my beliefs.

I have more to say (do you think I'll ever stop?), but my cousin just called, and he needs a ride. So I'm off to the rescue!

---
inch towards daylight

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Jadehand: I'm completely available, and I'll get trashed with you and we can plan the innevitable downfall of stupidity. I'm also a schemer (this just doesn't look to be spelled right), and like Wash, I was laconic once, but never had a fry cook opportunity. So get a bottle of vodka and a notebook (cos we'll need to take notes of course, what good is planning if you can't attempt to make out your drunked scribblings the next day), and we will figure this out.

I always wanted a bumper sticker that said: I wish stupidity were fatal so you'd die. I figured I might get rear ended a lot with that though.

And LightMeDark: You know what? You know what's wrong with you. If you don't think you should be in a relationship, then don't be. It's your life dude, I'm only trying to show you some other perspectives and stuff. Opening your mind and your eyes can lead you to open your heart.

ScorpionRegent: Hell no, I'm not settling, I'm just trying to find cool interesting funny guys. Nice would be good, but I'm not exactly nice (see re above: stupid people comment) so I'm not looking for a saint. I love the idea of Lawyers, I am adding it to the list, Settlers, Lawyers and Fighters, yay! A trifecta!!

Mai: I still love this thread even through all it's ups and downs, isn't that how we are supposed to love a good friend, I mean thread? hehe

Not a Saint,

BlackEyedGurl

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
http://pluralofapocalypse.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Inara: "Do aliens live among us?"
Kaylee: "Yes. One of them's a doctor."

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To Blackeyedgirl

Oh no, she's going to get drunk!
Here is your brain.
Here is your brain on vodka.
Here is your brain on vodka with a tequila chaser.
Here is your brain as you're dry heaveing peanut butter at two in the morning:
"Oh god! Oh god! just let me die now! Oh god if you let me die now, I'll never drink again!" (Strange how drunks can come up sound logical arguments when they are praying to die)
If you don't want to have this happen to you, drink with some form of restraint, I didn't, once upon a time. The names have not been changed to protect the innocent only the alcohol. Actually it was Sake. Well I didn't die and I have drunk again, albeit with far more moderation.

If you are going to do research fueled by ingested chemicals, then take a hint from the late Hunter S. Thompsen (Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and many other savage tales) Don't write down your notes, use a tape recorder instead. Tape absorbs information almost at the speed of thought, well at the speed of sound atleast.

Instead of a bumpersticker just get a custom made license frame. If you don't have those near you I'll get one for you as a (Kwanza, Chananka, Xmas, Beltaine) gift. I don't think that sentiment makes you not nice. You are just exspressing a interest in raising the average IQ of your surrounding local. Honestly I don't wish all stupid people dead. I had to drive the short bus for a school district once. Those developmentally impaired kids were, for the most part, extremely sweet,... for the most part. The people I wish dead are the ugly stupid, as in ugly drunks. I can hang with happy stupid (sometimes they can be contagious) and quiet stupid just sits there and doesn't bother anybody, but ugly stupid, those people that inspired J.R.R. Tolkien to think up that fictional race called orcs, well the ugly stupid, they just got to go!
Well It's time to get back on topic. I wish you well on your quest my lady. May you find what you are looking for: a cool, interesting, funny guy who isn't a saint. Hey why settle for one? May you a find a lot of cool, interesting, funny guys and sample them, until you find your keeper. Here's a hint: the man who knows you may be seeing other men and isn't frightened off and doesn't immediately demand you commit to him and truly is interested in your happiness and is willing to give you the space to find it. Well, that man may just be your keeper, a man of true courage. So long as he's not hiding the fact from you he's married already, and is interested in a commited to a exclusive monogamous relationship. That is the prize right? The winner gets to share everything with you, exclusively. I'm not asking in a judgemental fashion, but it's important to know what you want and to communicate it openly because that's the key to success in so many things, communication. And when you change, hey everybody does, keep communicating. There is nothing more frustrating for a man than the cliche of a woman who sends out subtle signals and expects the man to read her mind. Or for the woman the cliche of the guy who just doesn't get it. Sometimes we need more than a hint, sometimes not. It may not be your fault, maybe we just aren't paying close enough attention, but regardless the message is still getting lost. Oh shit I'm tangenting! Well I'm rambling awfully now. To wrap this up I'll just say that I've read enough of this thread to know that you deserve to be happy finding the man you seek and that any man that is sampled and considered by you is damn lucky, probably more than he will ever appreciate. Point of clarification, by sampleing I never meant to imply anything vulgar, however your imagination is your own, use it at your own risk.

More to follow...

Scorpion Regent

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Hmm... girlpower.

Feel like I just got a right-left-right combo to the jaw. Soon as my braincells regroup I'll get back to you and respond.

Am already formulating a theory about a great hive-mind telepathy conspiracy involving women disarming men. It's all about stealing our mojo.

Suffice it to say, you've given a good account of yourself. I'll come back with a barbed and prickly attack once my mojo is replenished.

woman: I am woman, hear me roar!

man: I am man, fetch me beer.



Don't get comfortable. I'm not done yet. Just recuperating. That was a 3-pronged attack by the female of the species, and my mojo is taxed. The "masculinst" movement must live.

XG


No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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I'm not nice. I'm evil.
Rotten to the core.

I fool people and myself, but I'm really evil...

---

More insane ramblings by the people who brought
Remember, the ice caps aren't melting, the water is being liberated.

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XG:

He is winding the watch of his wit;
by and by it will strike.
-W. Shakespeare





Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by citizen:
I'm not nice. I'm evil.
Rotten to the core.

I fool people and myself, but I'm really evil...

---

Oh yes, you are very evil. E-VILLE even.



Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by CallMeSerenity:
XG:

He is winding the watch of his wit;
It will ring presently.
-W. Shakespeare





Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

---

hee-hee!! And in preparation of a masculine/feminine tirade, I've prepared my own:

I followed this thread a bit last week (or sometime), but I've been too busy and I'm just catching up today. I want in on the discussion but I'm so far behind! I'll try to catch up without killing you all with exposition.

I'm relatively new to FFF (and to internet posting in general, actually) so let me introduce myself a bit. I'm a scientist but I have my sides. Often my day will go like this - play ice hockey with the girls early, go to work and write code and plot squiggly lines all day, go to ballet/modern dance class, maybe catch some more hockey with the guys at night. Or go home and watch FF. I like dressing up and dancing at clubs (trance addict here) I play cello (oh, the Bach suites!) I knit. I rarely wear makeup. I'm a tall and skinny ballerina type but not so fashionable. I love scifi. I love Jane Austen. I home brew. I'll go along with the "nice" stereotype for a second - I have a history of frightening off "nice" guys but not living up to the standards of "hotty" guys. Maybe I'm just not the trophy type?

Anyway, I don't have these hobbies because they fit some definition, I do them because I tried them and they're fun. I'm so over the whole man must be like this (beer yum) and women must be like that (omg, where's my mascara?) I wish people would chill about definitions and just do what's enjoyable. It's so hard to find a man who is manly (physically speaking, call me shallow but I do like manly men ) but open minded. I was watching TV with a boyfriend once and The Age of Innocence came on, and after five minutes he said - "this is a chick flick" and immediately tuned out. It was too big a challenge to his masculinity, I guess! *wussy*

An example of the way I wish things were: there's this commercial I'm quite fond of. Opening: church full of flowers and wedding goers - but where's the groom? Everyone is whispering, the pretty young bride looks worried. She goes searching - opens a closet door and there's the groom and his buddies *gasp* drinking beer and watching the game, oh no! She's all mad - but she says something along the lines of "Why didn't you tell me the game was on? What's the score?" and grabs a beer and pulls up a chair. And the best man gets all teary "Man, you are so lucky!"

That's how it should be, with the vice-versa of course. My man should allow me to paint his toenails if I'm in the mood and also take (or give) a hip check on the ice. Never apologize to me if he wants to drink beer with the guys (just take me along now and then.) He must know that the BBCs Pride and Prejudice can be enjoyable whether you personally have indoor plumbing or outdoor plumbing.

OK, I'm running out of ramble, I'm sure I'll come with more later. Thanks for the topic Mai, it really is though provoking and fun! And excellent work avoidance ...

m4p



Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.

"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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I LOVE BBC's P&P!! I hope the new movie coming out is as good. I'm worried, though. 2hr movie versus 6 hr mini-series. Guess I'll find out this weekend when I go see it!

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by BlackEyedGirl:
Don't forget, the 'friend zone' works both ways buddie. This is of course coming from what I call a 'buddy-chick' which is the chick that gets to hang with the boys, and occasionally gets to have sex with one of them, but whom none of them would ever seriously date (because they say things like 'i don't want to be in a relationship' and then WHAM! they end up in one, right after crushing 'buddy-chick's' hopes and dreams, no I'm not bitter).

As someone who's recently been crushed by the gigantic arm of 'friendship' I've gotta say, I still believe that you should only date people who you would be friends with, cos if you wouldn't be their friend outside of yoru relationship what in the hell kind of person are you dating??

Any and all intersted men-folk in the greater Wisconsin area are encouraged to gimme a shout, cos I'm willing to try anything at this point, and hell, I already know we both like Firefly! That's a good starting point right?? PM me or check out my blog for more info and peering into my deranged mind. (there's also photos there)

My god I just pimped myself! I feel kinda dirt-er okay about it though....

-BEG out...

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
http://pluralofapocalypse.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Inara: "Do aliens live among us?"
Kaylee: "Yes. One of them's a doctor."

---

No argument here; just trying to answer the question "Where are the nice guys?"

How's this for a corollary - we'll call it "where can I find the girl/woman/gal (pick one or add your own) that I can be comfortable with and settle down?" Again the answer is that there are people all around us that would make more than suitable partners; but we, as men, tend to put on our track shoes when we meet someone who could be 'the one'. Fair enough?

"C'mon, Kaylee. We all know I'm the funny one."

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lol!

So you're telling us we should take up running?



Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

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Well, I've been following this here thread since it's inception, but it's taken up till now to actually catch up and decide to make a comment of my own.

Firstly, I have been, on numerous occasions, accused of being a 'nice guy.' Those words were usually shortly followed by "Let's just be friends." As a result of this, I tried to be the bad guy. I was able to do it, but I didn't like what I had become. Not that it didn't get me women, which it did. But I seriously didn't like being the a$$hole.

So here I am, back to the normal me, and I've stayed that way for at least the last 4 years. I'm 28, and unattached. I've never been married, and I've only lived with one woman... good thing too; had I married her beforehand, there'd have been blood. And probably not hers... I'm not quite strong-willed enough to convince myself to injure someone.(Read: I'm a wussy-man.)

I don't do bars, since the types of people you find in bars typically are either already attached, or are looking for the cut chest/6-pack. You can't exactly get to know someone's personality in a bar. Too much noise for that.

So here I am, on the raggedy edge. Unable to keep the a$$hole persona, yet not beautiful enough to attract women with my merits. So where do I turn? Well, I tried e-Harmony. Have you ever been turned down by a dating service?? It's humiliating. I went through and filled out their personality test, and they basically said "No, we can't take your money; you're unhelpable." Some bull crap about how 20% of those that take the test are incompatible with their methods. Wow, like that wasn't just hurtful. Maybe I'll go get turned down for a car loan, or maybe that Chinese black market adoption ring will frown on my credit score.

I've signed up for several of those personals sites that give you emails every week with matches that fit your desires. I only signed up for the free service, since I was wholly unconvinced that these services actually work at all. Did you know that, according to Yahoo, in my area alone, there are over 50 women that are 25 years old, have a job in computers, look drop-dead gorgeous, and are interested in "Arts, Movies, Dancing, Computers/Internet," in precisely that order, and with no other interests? In fact, at least 4 of them are twins with other women in Yahoo personals. I know this because they look exactly alike. /nod.

Of course, I'm also the kind of guy that's excessively shy arond women. The only women I have dated asked ME out, not t'other way around. Even during that a$$hole period, I could only get a number if they asked me.

So, just as a hint, we hide at home, playing our MMORPG's, or at work. I'm sure there are other places, but those are the only places you're likely to find me. Now I'm off to the movie theater tonight - to watch Zorro. I'm sure there'll be plenty of available girls there; too bad I want a woman.

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phew I think I finally finished reading most of this post. First thoughts: Ladies have you ever looked at yourselves to try to determine if you would attract "nice" guys? "Nice" is all relative anyway. I know plenty of guys who I would classify as jerks but most people classify as nice. So, I suggest trying to think like a "nice" guy and then figure out what to do to attract one. Being outgoing/aggressive is always a plus in my book. Us guys don't get subtle signals. Come over and talk to us. We get that one.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
I want a girl who's classy, geeky, highly intelligent, sophisticated, whimsical, critical (in the analytical sense), eloquent, doesn't mind junk food, watches cartoons and animé, likes sci-fi, plays video games, believes in the paranormal, wears a lot of black, won't try to get me drunk (I don't drink, don't feel the need to encourage me to, 'cause it'll just annoy me), and is okay with sitting together on the couch watching (way too much) TV.

People have told me my standards are too high. I usually reply that theirs are too low.

---

You make a good list sir. I want most all of that. I don't care about wearing a lot of black. I also don't care if she watches cartoons and anime or believes in the paranormal. The rest of it is pretty much right on. Some of my favorite times with past girlfriends has just been snuggling on the couch watching a movie or something. I've never been much of a drinker either. Just doesn't make any sense to me. I like my brain and it likes me. I don't want to poison it.

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by CallMeSerenity:
I LOVE BBC's P&P!! I hope the new movie coming out is as good. I'm worried, though. 2hr movie versus 6 hr mini-series. Guess I'll find out this weekend when I go see it!

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

---

So, do you find that men are only capable of enjoying something like P&P out of a need to understand that perplexing thing that is Woman? (ie You've got Mail)

Nice and NotNice guys: please chime in. And how about that clingy girl question someone asked over the weekend, I think Lightmedark was the only one who answered this and I am curious about it too. I will always be single rather than clingy, I hope that doesn't doom me to spinsterhood. (Good thing I knit, just in case.)

m4p


Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.

"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Okay Haiden Just told my life story (cept the nice guy and a$$hole part, I'd be an Arsehole (British) and I'm evil, not nice in anyway).

Completly evil. I'm so evil I fool people in to thinking I'm not evil, because it allows more oppertunities for evil.

How evil.

---

More insane ramblings by the people who brought
Remember, the ice caps aren't melting, the water is being liberated.

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The one woman I lived with: CLINGY with an uber-capital all of it!

The worst part was that she didn't show her true absolu-clinginess until after we had moved in together. If I answered the phone and said more than one sentence, the jealousy would begin. I suppose I could handle a bit of clinginess, but I have seen the dark side of clingy, and it's not a Bounce dryer sheet, let me tell you.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by mal4prez:

Quote:

---

So, do you find that men are only capable of enjoying something like P&P out of a need to understand that perplexing thing that is Woman? (ie You've got Mail)

Nice and NotNice guys: please chime in. And how about that clingy girl question someone asked over the weekend, I think Lightmedark was the only one who answered this and I am curious about it too. I will always be single rather than clingy, I hope that doesn't doom me to spinsterhood. (Good thing I knit, just in case.)

---

I've only known one guy that would watch Jane Austin with me, but he would never admit to it in public. And he was very sensitive. He's married now. Don't know what that means.

And, you know, I think it was Zoot(?) earlier that said it was the women who knew that they wanted that snatched up all the good men early on so there weren't any left for the rest of us (I'm paraphrasing here, obviously). But it has always seemed to me that it is the clingy (or co-dependent) girls that get married first. Like one of my college roommates who went through 7 (SEVEN!) guys in one semester before she latched onto the guy she ended up marrying. Talk about getting your MRS!

And if you end up being a knitting spinster for being independent and non-clingy, then I'll join you and we can knit together.

Also, this thread is getting way too long. We need a new one.

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

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Quote:

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Originally posted by CallMeSerenity:
I've only known one guy that would watch Jane Austin with me, but he would never admit to it in public. And he was very sensitive. He's married now. Don't know what that means.

---

I actually own a film version of a Jane Austen book (I will leave you to figure out which one it is) and I enjoy very much. In fact, I went to see it on the first real date I ever went on way back in my youth....

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Quote:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Just striking up a conversation about Serenity out of the blue works too.

Chrisisall, advice to the romance-seekers everywhere

---

Man! I wish I'd had that option years ago.

(Got myself a nice guy anyway.)

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Quote:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Here's another: watch Somewhere In Time(Christopher Reeve, Jayne Seymour, 1980) with a guy and see if he cries at the end. Any guy that don't cry- hit the ejector button.

Chrisisserious

---

Somewhere In Time has one of the best movie kisses EVER!

(I think my nice guy would have flunked this test. Hmmm. Think I'll have to rent.)

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Nice and NotNice guys: please chime in. And how about that clingy girl question someone asked over the weekend, I think Lightmedark was the only one who answered this and I am curious about it too. I will always be single rather than clingy, I hope that doesn't doom me to spinsterhood. (Good thing I knit, just in case.)

---

Depends on what clingy means. I want a girl who wants to be with me. I've told my female friends, which for some reason I have a lot of currently, that I don't like dancing and going to bars, but that if I was going with a girl I liked, I would happily go with a smile on my face. Not because I suddenly like either event, but because I want to spend time with that person. What we do together isn't as important as being together.

So, no I don't want a girl who just goes off on her own all the time. I want some clinginess.

However, if clingy is just another word for insanely jealous, then I don't want that. I'm going to have female friends and I want to be able to have a boys night out once in a while. I'm not going to cheat. It's not who I am. Which I find hard to get across to the jealous type girls. I don't know how to prove I won't cheat. I just know I won't.

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Quote:

---

So, do you find that men are only capable of enjoying something like P&P out of a need to understand that perplexing thing that is Woman? (ie You've got Mail)

Nice and NotNice guys: please chime in. And how about that clingy girl question someone asked over the weekend, I think Lightmedark was the only one who answered this and I am curious about it too. I will always be single rather than clingy, I hope that doesn't doom me to spinsterhood. (Good thing I knit, just in case.)

---

What does P&P represent here? Period films? Slow, lacking action? Drama? Poingantly emotional?

I'd have to answer differently for each category, but in general, I like "chick flicks" - but have to be in the mood for them (like anything, really). Say Anything and Breakfast at Tiffany's are a couple of my favorite films, and I like romantic comedies in general (though they are quite predictable ;) )

I may just be an odd duck, though - I always cry at the end of Terminator 2...

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Static. Brilliantly said!

Quote:

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I heard somewhere the key was to watch a guys eyes when he laughs. If the laughter shows in his eyes, he's genuine.

Safeat2nd, Chief Handyman of Destiny[b/]

---

Ah, yes. The twinkle. This was something my mom had mentioned many, many times about fellas, and we would talk about guys if they had it, but it took me forEVER before I started applying it to my personal search. Hence, I met my fella, who has a twinkle, through a "great guy" I thought I was dating, who did not have a twinkle. It tought me that charm and charisma aren't everything if their ain't no twinkle.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by est120:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by CallMeSerenity:
I've only known one guy that would watch Jane Austin with me, but he would never admit to it in public. And he was very sensitive. He's married now. Don't know what that means.

---

I actually own a film version of a Jane Austen book (I will leave you to figure out which one it is) and I enjoy very much. In fact, I went to see it on the first real date I ever went on way back in my youth....

---

Persuasion? Because that's my FAVOURITE of all.

But it was probably Sense & Sensibility because that's the only one that I can think of that's been made into a movie that's made it into a theater.

LFO-P&P is short for Pride & Prejudice. We were just being lazy.

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

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I read some of these replies last night. It is rather a good thing I did not post then as I was rather upset (especially with you're snippet BEG, which in hindsight was rather dumb).

Why was I distraught...well I've recently been contemplating a lot of things (obviously), and my loyalties get in the way sometime. As I posted earlier my cousin called needing a ride. He was as flippin' drunk as I've seen him in quite a while. So I picked him up, and he was hungry. So I took him to Burger King where he wanted to dine in instead of taking it to go as I suggested. As he sat at our table behind a pile of food that he bought and couldn't possibly eat (the club sandwhich he ended up buckling into my backseat...i named it timmy ;D), he loudly proclaimed hey if you ever see her jim's ex girlfriend has goneria (or however you spell it..and she doesn't). I took it good naturedly and shook my head to everyone. He was obviously drunk and so took no notice or nothing more than amusement. He told me today he was sorry and meant it in the best possible way at the time. After we finished eating and before we left he pulled out a number of some girl that had just walked up to him and given it to him and called her on my phone. He asked to see her (while his girlfriend is home pregnant with his child...I know that one's not working out. They're schedules didn't mesh so maybe next week.

After that as I was driving him home he says hey i thought we were going to stop at Fuzions (maybe it's fusionz, a bar). I said nah, I just really wanted to get home. So as we near his home a cop pulls up behind my bumper as we're rolling down the street. My cousin says just pull right into the Clinton, they won't think anything's up. I said I really didn't want to go, but that if he wanted to I would hang out for a bit. After a drink there he wanted to go to another bar, so I obliged. While we were there I told him I just wanted to get home so let's go. He said alright but can we stop up at the Casino (we both work there, big place) and wait for this girl to get out. I said sure whatever. He wanted her to drive him home (she has been lately). We waited there until about 45 minutes after she was supposed to get out before she finally did. Turns out she was taking a friend home so it was a wasted venture (for which my cousin apologized). They're going out to the bar tonight.

Then when I got home I spoke with my best chick friend for a while over IM. We got into an argument I left upset to which I read the following quote which I almost replied to in anger(I called her today and told her I was sorry I was such an asshole last night. she's a good friend). It's funny that I argue far more with friends than I ever have with past gfs. There were only two fights in my last relationship, and they were both about work. I don't even think my ex gf calls them fights, haha.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BlackEyedGirl:
And LightMeDark: You know what? You know what's wrong with you. If you don't think you should be in a relationship, then don't be. It's your life dude, I'm only trying to show you some other perspectives and stuff. Opening your mind and your eyes can lead you to open your heart.

---

Yeah, I do. I am now putting my most sincere effort forward to fixing what must be fixed in order for me to date without heavy conscience. I appreciate your trying to help me. I'm sorry if I've made you feel diminished in any way (which I probably haven't, you're strong).

Quote:

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Originally posted by ScorpionRegent:
the man who knows you may be seeing other men and isn't frightened off and doesn't immediately demand you commit to him and truly is interested in your happiness and is willing to give you the space to find it. Well, that man may just be your keeper, a man of true courage. So long as he's not hiding the fact from you he's married already, and is interested in a commited to a exclusive monogamous relationship. That is the prize right? The winner gets to share everything with you, exclusively. I'm not askin

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My brain cells are still regrouping for counter-attack but MAL4PREZ, I'm compelled to respond to your post...

Ok... you're checklist (and what men are thinking):

**cue up otherworldly harp music**

(1) Scientist. Ok... she's definately not blonde.
(2) Plays Hockey... that deserves a male grunt of approval.
(3) Writes code and plots squiggly lines... I have a crackerjack decoder ring and am a world-reknowned fingerpainter (critically acclaimed since kindergarten).
(4) Ballet/Modern Dance... ok, I'm thinking classy and sexy. I'm ready to dazzle you with my "uncoordinated white guy dance".
(5) Dance/Trance clubbing... Ok, maybe she is blonde. Still kinda sexy.
(6) Plays cello... More class. I'm thinking to myself, Ok, I can play gazoo, we can make beautiful music together. Romantic duets involving show tunes.
(7) Jane Austen... I didn't know Tarzan's wife lived in Texas. Learn something new everyday.
(8) Homebrew... ok, right about this point I'm thinking marriage proposal.


But then, the whole fantasy goes flying off the rails with a bloodcurdling scream of primal man-agony...

**cue up gothic Phantom of the Opera theme**

(9) Painting your man's toenails...

This is a man we're talking about isn't it?

When that witch's brew wears off and the man wakes up to this desecration of his macho-osity, he'll probably gnaw his own leg off. It's worse than a bear trap. Maybe even gnaw his whole body off from the neck down (difficult, but not impossible).

I don't even wanna imagine what #10 would be like after that one. Dress him up in leotards and make him jazzercise with you? Oh god no... it's just making my skin crawl.

XG


No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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XG:
Actually I was thinking:
Hmmm, another woman waaaay out of my league.

---

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
Remember, the ice caps aren't melting, the water is being liberated.

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BlackEyedGirl wrote:

Quote:

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Jadehand: I'm completely available, and I'll get trashed with you and we can plan the innevitable downfall of stupidity. I'm also a schemer (this just doesn't look to be spelled right), and like Wash, I was laconic once, but never had a fry cook opportunity. So get a bottle of vodka and a notebook (cos we'll need to take notes of course, what good is planning if you can't attempt to make out your drunked scribblings the next day), and we will figure this out.

I always wanted a bumper sticker that said: I wish stupidity were fatal so you'd die. I figured I might get rear ended a lot with that though.
...

---

Thank you. This made my day. I've a bad couple of weeks, and this made the day bearable. Thank You.
I wish Wisconsin wasn't so far from NC.

I have some plans in the works, some of my friends and I have discussed this before. I think we start with removing all warning labels, and disallowing the silly lawsuits. More Darwin Awards yeah.

Comments on the nice boys Vs. getting hints: I can only speak for myself, I made a few embarassing mistakes in my past, misinterpreting ladies who were just being nice as giving signals. So now, if you're giving signals, I'll likely just assume you're only being friendly/ polite. You pretty much gotta hit me over the head, and drag me back to the cave. I won't mind waking up chained to the wall.


Also: CallMeSerenity wrote something about this thread getting too long and how we need another. What is the record here for longest thread? I second the request. Loooong load times for thread.

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"Dreaming the dream that only the sleepless know."
"Say you understand me, And I will leave myself completely.
Forgive me if I stare, But I can see the island behind your tired, troubled eyes." -Fantastic Place (Marbles) -Marillion

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I started a new thread entitled: The Hidey Place of Nice Boys & Girls.

Let the pain begin again without the excessively long load time!

blackeyedgurl

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
http://pluralofapocalypse.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Inara: "Do aliens live among us?"
Kaylee: "Yes. One of them's a doctor."

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Yeah! *hugs BEG!* thanks.
continue thread here:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15042

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"Dreaming the dream that only the sleepless know."
"Say you understand me, And I will leave myself completely.
Forgive me if I stare, But I can see the island behind your tired, troubled eyes." -Fantastic Place (Marbles) -Marillion

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I can see where 0G is coming from in regards to having toenails painted. Most guys aren't that secure about such things. In light of Mal4prez' resume I would say it's a reasonable price to pay to share time with such a lady. If anyone called me on it, I would tell them the same, "My lady is worth it." Of course it's understood, I don't come cheap either.

I can watch Jane Austen films if I am in a receptive mood, but in the spirit of reciprocation when I get to pick the movie I'll put on something from the Sharpe's series. Most women won't say no to Sean Bean being rugged and heroic.



Scorpion Regent

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by Barclay:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Lofwyrr:
I'll tell you where we are. We're driving you home from the bar, drunk, as you cry about the hot guy that 'broke your heart' that night at the bar. We're holding back your hair as you puke. We're sitting at home when you call and say that your date for the night cancelled and can you come over and talk. We're sitting at the bar with you, watching your purse as you go up to the bar or out on the dance floor to hit on the hot guy, trying to get him to buy you drinks. We're waiting for you to realize that we'll treat you well all the time, not just when the hot, or rich, or nice car-having guys are done with you.

We're right in front of you.

Not that I'm bitter or anything

Be wary of rousing the wrath of wizards, for you are flammable and conduct electricity.

---

You know, I'm not usually into the random threads thing (and don't post all that frequently), but I like to think of myself as an observer of people, and especially relationships, and I think the post I've quoted has got all sorts of smarts to it.

For all interested in a bitter male perspective, visit http://www.intellectualwhores.com which has a wonderful theory. Even if you end up disagreeing with it, it's something to consider. And that's what we're about right?

But I imagine that most of you who are looking for a "nice guy" already have one around. And the fact that he's around, probably means he's interested. You know that whole "When harry Met Sally" thing that men and women can never be friends because if you don't want to have sex with him than he wants to have sex with you? Girls, I've got a news flash, it's absolutely true. Every female friend I have, I would date. Every one who I've had that I've decided it wouldn't be worth dating, I don't talk to any more.

So, when I'm there listening to a female friend talk about her (ex-)boyfriend, I'm taking notes. I'm learning more about her than said boyfriend does. Mainly so that if an opportunity comes up, there I am. And unless the guy is into guys, that's pretty much why guys are friends with girls.

So, where do you go to look for a nice guy? Odds are, you've already got him around. And odds are, he's also willing. You've just got to look around and see him not on the friend ladder, but on the relationship ladder (see link above). The problem isn't of finding guys (it's very easy to say "Why Hasn't a nice guy come along yet?") but rather why haven't you noticed the nice guy who's already there (a lot harder to ask that question). Expand the base of guys you're looking at... heck, for a day, or a week or whatever, size up every guy you meet as potential boyfriend material and see what you come up with (not that you have to act on it), but just to get your thoughts going in that direction.

"You are on the Global Frequency."
http://www.frequencysite.com
http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com]

But then that wouldn't make them a nice guy, would it? They would instead be opportunist bastards. Just saying.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by CallMeSerenity:
Persuasion? Because that's my FAVOURITE of all.

But it was probably Sense & Sensibility because that's the only one that I can think of that's been made into a movie that's made it into a theater.

LFO-P&P is short for Pride & Prejudice. We were just being lazy.

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

I have a live journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/callmeserenity/

---

You are correct. Sense and Sensibility. I do not watch it often because I find it simultaneously happy and sad. Still, I enjoy it. I have a decent sized collection of romantic comedies too.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by RiverNot:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Here's another: watch Somewhere In Time(Christopher Reeve, Jayne Seymour, 1980) with a guy and see if he cries at the end. Any guy that don't cry- hit the ejector button.

Chrisisserious

---

Somewhere In Time has one of the best movie kisses EVER!

(I think my nice guy would have flunked this test. Hmmm. Think I'll have to rent.)

---

Naw, give him the dvd, go shopping or whatever, but have a spy-cam on him. With no one around to be strong for, I'll bet he lets loose at least ONE tear....

*interesting film fact: When Jayne Seymour was 'adding' dialogue during her play and directing it to Chris Reeve in the audience, it was actually the writer, Richard Matheson, sitting in for Reeve, at whom she was looking.

Chrisisall, reaching for a tissue hisself

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiverNot:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Here's another: watch Somewhere In Time...Any guy that don't cry- hit the ejector button. Chrisisserious

---

I think my nice guy would have flunked this test.

---

Naw, give him the dvd, go shopping or whatever, but have a spy-cam on him. With no one around to be strong for, I'll bet he lets loose at least ONE tear....

---

Won't work. "Inscrutable" is my fella. However, he will admit to being "moved."

Quote:

---

*interesting film fact: When Jayne Seymour was 'adding' dialogue during her play and directing it to Chris Reeve in the audience, it was actually the writer, Richard Matheson, sitting in for Reeve, at whom she was looking.

Chrisisall, reaching for a tissue hisself

---

I'd mixed up this bit of trivia with the bit about Reeve seeing the portrait for the first time and was about to call you on it. Oops. Good thing I checked first. Anyway, Matheson was supposedly so moved and upset by the experience, he had to call his wife and return home immediately. That's a nice guy.

Pass the tissue.

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiverNot:


Matheson was supposedly so moved and upset by the experience, he had to call his wife and return home immediately. That's a nice guy.

Pass the tissue.

---

That I did not know.

Back in 1980 I saw it in the theatre with my then girlfriend, who not only didn't cry, she said afterward that it was 'over-acted' (theatre major), it was then that I knew it would never work between us.

Chrisisall a Matheson fan

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Back in 1980 I saw it in the theatre with my then girlfriend, who not only didn't cry, she said afterward that it was 'over-acted' (theatre major), it was then that I knew it would never work between us.

Chrisisall a Matheson fan

---

Once upon a time I had a crush on a fella and he took me on my very first date to Close Encounters of the Third Kind (1977). I was, of course, enthralled! (Never worked for me on video. Only the big screen for that one.) He actually said something like, "I didn't really like it." Well, that quashed my crush right there. Actually, I don't think I went on another date for a couple of years.

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In '82 I took a girlfriend to see Blade Runner, she said it was 'good'. She married a nice guy (a 'not me' kinda nice guy).

A lot of weeding is done at the theatre, I see.

Chrisisall at the movies

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Quote:

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Originally posted by BruisersMom:
Oh, here's a thought from the BruisersMom files. Sometimes the nice guy is still single and a waste of time because he's terrified of commitment or just very comfortable being a confirmed thirtysomething bachelor and only wants a woman to be his girlfriend for the rest of her life. Ended a relationship with one of those nice guys about a year ago.

Oh, and here's something scary. The above mentioned exboyfriend had friends who were just like him. They use to go out to dinner and movies together on Friday nights when they didn't have girlfriends. Maybe, I should post their names so that single women can avoid wasting their time on them? Yeah, why not. Their names are David Poepoe, Webb Deneys and I forget the other guy's last name. His first name was Jason. You'll see him with the other two guys anyway.

---

Here's a thought from Safron's files:
Sometimes the nice guy is still single because he hasn't found the right girl yet and doesn't feel like settling into a loveless marriage with whoever just happens to be around.

I don't know who taught you your netiquette, but posting people's real names in an anonymous public forum like this is tres uncool.

But, since we're naming names,

Hi, Elizabeth, my name is Laura. I'm the girl who just married Webb last month, so thanks for telling the single girls to stay away from him. It's been a pleasure to meet you.

Also, Webb and I will be attending Jason's wedding to his fiance, Val, in October.

Dave, alas, is still Dave. We all hope that he will someday find the right girl, but short of the invention of a time machine who knows.

I wish you luck in finding someone to share your life with who won't ask you to take care of his kids with ADHD or expect you to provide him with a whole passel of new ones.

I am glad to see that this bit of petty immaturity seems to have been shortlived, as your other posts here showed a bit of growth and a desire to find your own strength in your solitude.

Until then, enjoy your teaching and your weekends at the ASPCA.

Much love,

Safron
AKA: Our Mrs. Deneys

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