An idea and a website to bring back Firefly!

POSTED BY: browncoatsriseagain
UPDATED: Thursday, March 16, 2006 23:06
VIEWED: 28908
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BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Monday, January 16, 2006 5:54 AM

It's come time to truly misbehave...

www.browncoatsriseagain.com

Let's do something new. Let's show the entertainment industry that we are really serious about this. Let's put our money where our mouth is.

Take a part of the money you would spend on Firefly/Serenity anyway and donate it to our cause. An escrowed account where we can have a very public very large number for the TV/Film industry to salivate over. And then we hand it over to Joss (the best way how is still to be worked out - legal help anyone?) for him to bring back the 'verse anyway he sees fit.

So, let us know what we can do to draw more people and if you are moved, please donate!

Thanks in advance,

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

FIZZ6KITTY

Monday, January 16, 2006 5:59 AM

I just want to be the first to say thank you for getting this started!

THEONETRUEBIX

Monday, January 16, 2006 6:31 AM

Can't figure out how to track this without posting something to it. So, ignore this.

OIAMSLAIN

Monday, January 16, 2006 6:37 AM

Forgive me for sounding cynical or uninformed, but didn't the show alone cost something like two million dollars an episode to make?

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Monday, January 16, 2006 6:49 AM

The budget per epiosde is not a known number. It probably fluctuates a lot. "Out of Gas" cost a lot less than "Ariel" or "Trash" or "Heart of Gold" for instance. I did a little more research and did find the $2 million per episode you quoted. I will change the website to indicate that it could be as high as that for some episodes.

I'm certainly not saying that we have to be a sole source for funding although that would be a very nice position to play from.

I am saying that we get enough money into Joss' hands and his leverage becomes much much greater to get anything done and done his way.

There will be cyncism and doubt. I have bouts of it around 2am. The only way to know for sure is to do it. And so, why not give it a shot? Each persons risk is small and the reward is great!

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

EVERYWORLDSPINNIN

Monday, January 16, 2006 7:12 AM

Ideas such as this have been posted here several times before. The problem is not raising the money, the problem is that Fox owns the broadcast rights to Firefly, and guess what? They ain't sellin.

A while back, someone posted an idea originated from, I believe, New York Magazine where the journalist singled out Firefly as a prime candidate for a sort of subscriber based TV show, that would go straight to DVD. The fans pay for it, and when Mutant Enemy gets enough to produce 16 episodes at X amount per episode, they would make them and release them to the subscribers first, then retail and rental later.

However, the spectre of Fox looms large here. Since no one outside the interested parties has ever seen the contract, we're not sure what "broadcast" covers. Does it cover downloads or DVDs? If it doesn't explicitly say that, then maybe you could do that. However, expect (in the words of Shepherd Book) a hell of a fight from Fox and their mountain of lawyers.

Don't get me wrong, I'd contribute more than the asked for $25.00 in a second, but the battle does not lay in how much it costs to make an episode, but how much will Fox let the rights go for. Maybe that's the angle we should be working. A million fans donate $25.00 a piece, and dangle that in front of Fox to see if they'll take it.

"The last thing I want is that any of our descendents should look back in some years and despise us for not daring to act when we had so much capacity to act. We must dare to seek how, why and on what we agree. We shall thus be able to join together to look for alternative solutions and new ways of managing the world's challenges. Being diverse is our richness, acting together will be our strength". (Federico Mayor; 02-04-01;
UBUNTU Constituent Meeting).

TMURRIE

Monday, January 16, 2006 7:34 AM

Can someone somehow come up with some sort of budget sheet or something? Because my rigid head is somehow having troubles wrapping around the idea that a single episode of Firefly rounded out to above a million bucks!

This is why we lost ya know. We got outnumbered.

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Monday, January 16, 2006 7:35 AM

That's why we leave it up to Joss. He DOES know how the contract is worded. Us fans aren't asking for a production style in particular.

Also, Fox is going to be lured by the money. Why not make a direct to DVD series where Fox is one of the investors? This isn't a binary proposition - it's a way for the entertainment industry to finally get that we are serious.

I'm sure they are already impressed by the Amazon numbers - however an account with even $1 million in it could get their attention.

I also saw another piece of info on the budget - part of it includes the advertising of the show on the network and other places. It can be a significant bit of the budget (read > $100,000)

Andrew
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

STDOUBT

Monday, January 16, 2006 8:17 AM

Just to play the Devil's Advocate here.

Personally, I feel uncomfortable sending cash
to an unknown entity.
Your nick is new as of your first post here
(today).
Not sayin' ya ain't sincere!
Not sayin' it ain't a good idea!
Just sayin' I don't know ya.

The people many of us know from the webcasts
The Signal and Firefly Talk have an *established
web presence*. It may be that you'd garner more
cred if you hooked up with them somehow.

Anyhoo- I agree with the theory that this is a lull, and we won't be able to see more of the 'verse for
some few years. We're seeing new recruits all the
time, and have already established a 'media cult'.
We can float until our ship comes 'round again.
'Cuz it will.

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Monday, January 16, 2006 9:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by STDOUBT:
Just to play the Devil's Advocate here.

Personally, I feel uncomfortable sending cash
to an unknown entity.
Your nick is new as of your first post here
(today).
Not sayin' ya ain't sincere!
Not sayin' it ain't a good idea!
Just sayin' I don't know ya.

The people many of us know from the webcasts
The Signal and Firefly Talk have an *established
web presence*. It may be that you'd garner more
cred if you hooked up with them somehow.

Anyhoo- I agree with the theory that this is a lull, and we won't be able to see more of the 'verse for
some few years. We're seeing new recruits all the
time, and have already established a 'media cult'.
We can float until our ship comes 'round again.
'Cuz it will.

Totally understand this feeling. I would feel the same. I am establishing contacts with everyone possible associated with Firefly and Serenity. Please e-mail me directly at firefly@browncoatsriseagain.com if you wish to get a little more information about me before putting your donation in.

If this really does take off as I know it will, I will hire an outside accounting firm (with my own money) to audit the final books . I don't wish for there to be a hint of impropriety.

What I do wish for is a new media economy. One that breaks the current system faster so we can get more good shows for longer than half a season. We will get there. And I prefer to be in the driver's seat instead of yelling from the back seat.

I'm not going to sit back and hope that money comes in. I worked in TV for a long time and know how a report gets on the air. The site will get lots of publicity and quickly.

Donate what you feel is right. It's a Paypal account so your risk is limited. And the payoff is going to be not only getting new episodes in our favorite little 'verse, but to shake up things that need, ummm, shaking up.

Thanks for the feedback! Keep it coming...

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

ZIIANARKIST

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:07 AM

You watch your '6 very carefully BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN ya hear? PayPal has a long history of stuffing folks just when the gettin's good, especially when it comes to mass donations as would be needed. I said it before, the longer a large sum of money sits in a PayPal account just stagnatin', the juicier the proposition of a 'technical problem' or an 'account red-flag' or some nonsense becomes on PayPal's part.

What.. were.. you.. thinking? Did you read the Terms of Service? You relinquish all rights to the money in that account once it's theirs and they don't mind swinging it in your face from time to time!!

Quote:

PayPal reserves the right to hold funds beyond the normal distribution periods for transactions it deems suspicious or for accounts conducting high transaction volumes to ensure integrity of the funds.

Once other ships know of this, and put their faith in your donation fund, and you get a high volume of donations (say, 500,000 people donating $2_USD each?), you will get shaken un-upright, the account will be frozen, and your chances of getting ... 60% of that money back are slim to none. In fact I believe in a fit of creativity I once said 'a housecat's chance on a Reaver vessel'.

firefly and gor'ram and all the funny-funny aside, you have set yourself up to hurt many’a folk. You would have to get ahold of Joss Whedon personally, and have Joss Whedon get ahold of PayPal, and then you personally get ahold of PayPal, and make this very public, as in Penny Arcade and/or Slashdot 'public' to keep wringing hands and sneering evil away from that money.

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/hurricane/0,68788-0.html
http://www.animecornerstore.com/faq.html#5-13

Google 'PayPal scam' or visit PayPalSucks.com and you'll get horror stories aplenty. I gor'ram mean it!! No good will come of putting this in eBay/PayPal's hands.

You're a new face, same as I, and that's gonna make people twitchy, and the last schmuck to come here and link a self-made website on his very first post was the EvolutionSucks.com guy, and he managed to make many friends as well.

I mean you no harm if you mean us no harm - that's how my own personal brand of anarchy (and Confucianism for that matter) works - and I wish you well and success; but get the money in a real gor'ram bank governed by real gor'ram Fed law.

Now, I haven't checked them out, nor ever had a website to use them, but here's the service PayPalSucks.com keeps touting as a viable alternative. It puts money in a real bank account which might make folks ever more twitchy as it would directly go to you, but it's for the best if you mean well.

http://www.995merchantaccounts.com/

You're in over your head with this, even with a website packin' a bit of sparkle. You need to talk to a lawyer about establishing this as a non-profit organization so that the volume of money doesn't then get red-flagged by Internal Revenue and taxed into oblivion, and you need to direct this money into a high-interest savings account so that it's making money even when it's not making money, and you need to get a hold of Joss Whedon and tell him about this in a more or less ‘we can’t not do this’ attitude.

A lot of people want to see this through to victory - maybe I’ll go out on limb and say ‘everybody’ – and the way it’s presentin’ there’s a lot of room for hurtin’, and nobody deserves that.

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JETFLAIR

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:07 AM

I know this is nitpicky, but since you are marketing to a fanatic audience here....the quote on your main page is wrong. Mal actually said "I'm thinkin' we'll rise again."

________________________________________________-

"Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you when she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home." .......We love you, captain.

"This is the captain. We may experience some slight turbulence and then.....explode"

www.serenityverse.com - Zoe necklace replicas, Serenity dogtags, jewelry, image gallery w/ custom DVD covers, other goodies!

MRBEN

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:09 AM

Surely a better plan would be to run something like Pledgebank ( www.pledgebank.com) whereby people sign up to confirm that they would donate money, but don't actually donate it until it actually happens. Obviously you then have the possible issue that people might not live up to their agreements, but you also don't end up with some unknown, untraceable (no offense intended) entity with $25m in an account.

mrben

"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org

FLETCH2

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:09 AM

You're missing something. The cost of sets, costumes etc are split across the cost of a complete season. So $2Million an episode to make could mean $1.5 million for the episode and $0.5M of the $10M to build serenity and pay for office work, titles, advertising, etc.

If the ship cost $3M to build (not unreasonable since they built so much of it) the cost for *1* episode could be $4-5 Million dollars.

NUCLEARDAY

Monday, January 16, 2006 1:06 PM

I like the whole idea of putting our money where our mouths are, so to speak. And I like seeing someone trying to get something done, as that's the reason I started cruising the online community. Personally I'm a late-comer to the movement, and since obviously the hard-core fans have already accomplished so much, I'm looking to do my part.

My own two cents worth of ideas: It would obviously help matters if we all knew Mr. Whedon was aware and involved in this. (Also obviously hard to authenticate anything like that via internet.) And also of course this would really have to get rolling I'd imagine before anyone could get his firm approval.

Anyway, stuff I'm sure you'd thought of. What the hell, I got my tax refund coming some time soon...

Again, seems like I feel the same way alot of the other posters do. Once everyone is sure you're on the up and up, and that this has a snowball's chance, (Browncoats don't like good odds anyways :) sounds like a pretty good idea.

FEATHERONTHEWIND

Monday, January 16, 2006 1:28 PM

This is all way over my head, but isn't there some way we could start an account in Joss' name with the stipulation that the money has to be used to bring back Firefly in some aspect. Something sort of like a trust that he would only be able to access when there was a concrete plan for how everything is going to play out. Just a thought.

"Pain is scary." -Jayne
Mal=Hotness on an unknown level

IMPRESSION

Monday, January 16, 2006 2:12 PM

I agree with those who stated the facts about paypal and other scams because it would be a lot of money in one account. But why not make multiple accounts or multiple webpages and make a crew of browncoats in charge of the money and just so as not to get the accounts frozen on account of not using them, why not use a small percentage of them to pay for ad space on other web pages totally unrelated to Firefly and Serenity. You can have one major central web page that keeps a running total of the money from all the websites and what they are doing. When the time comes to dangle that money in front of Universal, then you collectively combine it.

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Monday, January 16, 2006 6:12 PM

First, thanks to all of you for taking the time to respond and respond in depth.

Believe me, we have pondered all of the issues that all you all have brought up. Here is what I am thinking.

I wanted to get the website up and running as quickly as possible. We could have been mired in legal and money issues until the cows come home. This forces several things to happen...

When this idea takes off, the money will not stay with Paypal. It will get moved to a real bank with real money and will be in the name of a non-profit organization that I am getting setup right now.

It gets the idea out to the Browncoats where they can help shape and create it in their own image rather than a lawyer's. I'm a big boy and know I can get into legal trouble. Not all of life is about avoiding trouble - isn't that why we like this show?

Finally, I doubt our true captain, Joss, will be able to say publicly or privately that he supports this venture for fear of money and legal issues.

That is why we have to TRULY misbehave. We are going to have to go against what society tells us, what the naysayers will tell us, and even what Joss or Mutant Enemy might tell us.

It is up to us. We can hope for the future of this 'verse or we can actively fight for it.

If you feel moved, donate. If you don't, please don't but let us know what stopped you.

I know you don't me personally. I will be adding a bio page to our website. I will be participating on these boards. I will be pursuing interviews and publicity for this cause. When I decide to do something, I do it until it is done.

I ask you to join me...

Andrew
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

IMALEAF

Monday, January 16, 2006 6:19 PM

no offense but how do we know thats where the money goes?

~~River: Bible's broken. Contradictions, false logics. Doesn't make sense.~~

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Monday, January 16, 2006 6:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by imaleaf:
no offense but how do we know thats where the money goes?

The short answer is there is no good way to prove to you that I am honest as you don't know me. I will be letting you folks get to know me and I will be here for the long haul.

If you are feeling skittish, please don't donate. As you see this site build and get more public, those butterflies will probably go away. Donate then.

I am not going to touch this money ever. It's not mine. I am just a steward of it for a short time.

How's that for a short answer that turned medium-long?

Andrew
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

ANONYMOUS1

Monday, January 16, 2006 6:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatsriseagain:
Let's do something new. Let's show the entertainment industry that we are really serious about this. Let's put our money where our mouth is.

It has been tried before with Enterprise and it fell apart.

It is too early to do this. 20th Century Fox owns Firefly. Universal owns the rights to Serenity and has not yet made a decision on whether they will make a sequel or not. If they say No, Joss gets to pitch around for a TV show. Joss cannot produce Firefly without 20th Century Fox's permission or Serenity without Universal's permission.

The entertainment industry is watching the DVD sales and Dvd rentals. Put our money where our mouth is. Keep buying Serenity DVDs. Get people to rent Serenity. Birthday gifts. Charity drives. Libraries. Buy other official Universal Serenity stuff.

SHEUNDERSTANDS

Monday, January 16, 2006 6:53 PM

Wow, that last post made a lot of people comfortable I bet... Even if you have good intentions (or rather, especially if you do). I think you owe it to the people to guarantee somehow this money is used appropriately. I mean what if firefly goes down in flames, do you just disappear into the night with the loot?

Once again you very well may have good intentions, but this has the makings for a great con-job. Whether you mean to or not, you have prey upon the browncoats generosity and put a large number of them in quite a position by proposing such a loosely structured plan.

If you're going to do it, do it right.

TANSTAAFL28

Monday, January 16, 2006 6:55 PM

We need a concerted effort here as I said before. I don't think we need to pay money to convince them. I think we simply need enough numbers for them to realize that they can make advertising revenue dollars off of the series.

The campaign to get Serenity and Firefly on every U.S. Navy vessel is one such way to expand our fan base. we might want to extend it to include Naval Bases, Army Forts and Marine Camps as well.

"You can't take the sky from me..."

SHEUNDERSTANDS

Monday, January 16, 2006 7:04 PM

Well I don't know where to post this but:

I personally am a core member of what would best be described as the "target audience". And yet not once did I see any advertisements or even hear about this show until after the movie came out. If people do not inform their target audience that something even exists, how in the world are they planning on selling it?

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Monday, January 16, 2006 7:07 PM

I AM doing it right. If you look at our website you will see that I addressed your concern. If we don't raise enough money or production of Firefly cannot be done, the money will be donated to a charity of Joss' choosing.

I guarantee that I will not make a dime off of this. I am spending my own money to host the site, set up legal and financial representation and applying for non-profit status.

In my last post I was addressing the fact that trust is built over time. You don't know me and the only way to change that is with time. I apologize if it made anyone feel like I was trying to get out of any responsiblity to the money. That is what a steward is. A responsible party.

I am pushing this forward to get exactly this kind of response so I know what troubles a Browncoat that he or she doesn't want to participate, so thank you for your concern!

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

Quote:
Originally posted by SheUnderstands:
Wow, that last post made a lot of people comfortable I bet... Even if you have good intentions (or rather, especially if you do). I think you owe it to the people to guarantee somehow this money is used appropriately. I mean what if firefly goes down in flames, do you just disappear into the night with the loot?

Once again you very well may have good intentions, but this has the makings for a great con-job. Whether you mean to or not, you have prey upon the browncoats generosity and put a large number of them in quite a position by proposing such a loosely structured plan.

If you're going to do it, do it right.

WILDHARE

Monday, January 16, 2006 7:14 PM

Since this is just in the idea stages. Someone being legitimate is irrelevant. There are many Browncoats out in the world and all of them have ideas.

Pressing problems I see right now is we are not centralized. We have lots of Browncoats with lots of ideas and resources and no central place to conduct our business.

1. We need a central place to gather and share ideas and resources so we can find what our numbers actually are. Are their 10,000 hard core Browncoats or are there 1 million. I have no idea but that is something I would like to know.

2. We need to figure out what our goals are. What do we want? What are we trying to achieve? Are we trying to buy the Rights to Firefly so we can control the future of the show or are we trying to raise funds for another Serenity?

4. Contact and work with the actors to determine if they are even interested in continuing the "verse". They may not want their acting carriers to take that turn. Let’s use Gilligan from Gilligan’s Island as an Example. He was always Gilligan and really was never able to get beyond that, and I think it ruined his carrier. These folks may want more for themselves. So we are going to have to be a legitimate group to even discuss this issue with them

I believe much of this can be achieved. Its going to take dedicated people working in force of numbers all moving in one direction with a purpose.

To my knowledge nothing like this has ever been attempted. No fan group has ever tried to take it to another level and use their force of numbers to change the history and life of a show.

Or we can continue whoring our movie and show to our friends and family and hope that the numbers add up to something the massive movie industry sees as worth taking another look at.

Someone needs to take by the horns and get it rollin. This is my two cents.

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Monday, January 16, 2006 7:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tanstaafl28:
We need a concerted effort here as I said before. I don't think we need to pay money to convince them. I think we simply need enough numbers for them to realize that they can make advertising revenue dollars off of the series.

The campaign to get Serenity and Firefly on every U.S. Navy vessel is one such way to expand our fan base. we might want to extend it to include Naval Bases, Army Forts and Marine Camps as well.

That is a great idea as well and works within the existing entertainment industry structure. I hope that you are following through on that idea.

I am proposing another way of working outside the existing entertainment industry. It brings us to a place where the audience can support something they love directly rather than having advertisers pay for it.

Both ways work and both will be around for a long time. Nothing I am asking you to do here should stop any other ideas from flowing and being implemented.

By approaching this from multiple angles and multiple strategies we will get more of what we want.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Monday, January 16, 2006 7:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wildhare:
Since this is just in the idea stages. Someone being legitimate is irrelevant. There are many Browncoats out in the world and all of them have ideas.

Pressing problems I see right now is we are not centralized. We have lots of Browncoats with lots of ideas and resources and no central place to conduct our business.

1. We need a central place to gather and share ideas and resources so we can find what our numbers actually are. Are their 10,000 hard core Browncoats or are there 1 million. I have no idea but that is something I would like to know.

2. We need to figure out what our goals are. What do we want? What are we trying to achieve? Are we trying to buy the Rights to Firefly so we can control the future of the show or are we trying to raise funds for another Serenity?

4. Contact and work with the actors to determine if they are even interested in continuing the "verse". They may not want their acting carriers to take that turn. Let’s use Gilligan from Gilligan’s Island as an Example. He was always Gilligan and really was never able to get beyond that, and I think it ruined his carrier. These folks may want more for themselves. So we are going to have to be a legitimate group to even discuss this issue with them

I believe much of this can be achieved. Its going to take dedicated people working in force of numbers all moving in one direction with a purpose.

To my knowledge nothing like this has ever been attempted. No fan group has ever tried to take it to another level and use their force of numbers to change the history and life of a show.

Or we can continue whoring our movie and show to our friends and family and hope that the numbers add up to something the massive movie industry sees as worth taking another look at.

Someone needs to take by the horns and get it rollin. This is my two cents.

Absolutely! Also ideas and plans don't have to cancel each other out. We have room for a lot of different strategies.

Some of the questions above will be partially answered by how many donations come in over the next few weeks. Others become moot if we let Joss figure out how to best continue the story of Firefly. He (meaning his team and himself) knows the contract best and knows what avenues have been exhausted and which haven't.

Let's keep the discussion going. I am thrilled that it has brought the response is has so far. We need critical eyes on this at every crossroad and decision.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Monday, January 16, 2006 8:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous1:
Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatsriseagain:
Let's do something new. Let's show the entertainment industry that we are really serious about this. Let's put our money where our mouth is.

It has been tried before with Enterprise and it fell apart.

It is too early to do this. 20th Century Fox owns Firefly. Universal owns the rights to Serenity and has not yet made a decision on whether they will make a sequel or not. If they say No, Joss gets to pitch around for a TV show. Joss cannot produce Firefly without 20th Century Fox's permission or Serenity without Universal's permission.

The entertainment industry is watching the DVD sales and Dvd rentals. Put our money where our mouth is. Keep buying Serenity DVDs. Get people to rent Serenity. Birthday gifts. Charity drives. Libraries. Buy other official Universal Serenity stuff.

I don't understand the early comment. We aren't trying to stop Joss or Fox or Universal from doing anything. We are showing all of the above that there is a viable audience. We are gathering leverage for Joss to be able to do his vision the best way he see to do it. We aren't demanding anything except that Firefly needs to continue. If that includes involement from Fox, why not?

Joss can work with Universal or Fox to release a straight to DVD, or bring it back to TV, or a sequel. It his money to do with as he sees fit to bring back the 'verse.

Please do continue to buy the DVD, rent it, birthday gifts, etc. I am asking that in addition to all of the good works done so far, let's make a new pitch that allows us more input into the final decision.

For some $25 is a real stretch. For others it is no big deal. Donate what you can - every dollar, euro or whatever will help change the ideas that film and TV executives have about their audience.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

ZEEK

Monday, January 16, 2006 8:32 PM

I like the idea and everything. My problem is the same as most of the others. Trust. I don't know you and don't trust you with my money. I know you've covered this. However, I want to second the notion that if you got some of the other community figure heads involved, that would generate some trust right away. I'd rather see that number soar quickly rather than extremly slowly.

Heck have one of them open a savings account and just transfer the paypal money to it weekly. Then they can report that they are actually getting the money and post their own tally. I really doubt any of them would steal from the community.

Also charity? Who cares about charity? I say the money goes to the Nathan Fillion to host the Late Show fund. Just me huh? Fine. But the other ideas are good.

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Monday, January 16, 2006 8:38 PM

I would be happy to discuss either including or changing where the cash goes if that gets the ball rolling.

But I also plan on becoming a member of this community and others. Continuning on message for the long haul. This will show how serious I am and bring the trust you speak of.

I don't want anyone who doesn't trust this project to donate to it.

I know there is fear out there. I am asking you to donate what you are comfortable with. $25 is just a suggestion. Donate as little or as much as you want.

Andrew Schultz

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I like the idea and everything. My problem is the same as most of the others. Trust. I don't know you and don't trust you with my money. I know you've covered this. However, I want to second the notion that if you got some of the other community figure heads involved, that would generate some trust right away. I'd rather see that number soar quickly rather than extremly slowly.

Heck have one of them open a savings account and just transfer the paypal money to it weekly. Then they can report that they are actually getting the money and post their own tally. I really doubt any of them would steal from the community.

Also charity? Who cares about charity? I say the money goes to the Nathan Fillion to host the Late Show fund. Just me huh? Fine. But the other ideas are good.

WILDHARE

Monday, January 16, 2006 8:49 PM

Before we even talk about money. We need to get all the Firefly and Serenity sites gathered into one site. Get all the users combined on one board. Get Browncoat radio and Firefly talk on the same program on the net. Get everyone together in one meeting place. Decided what we are trying to accomplish. Then worry about raising money to achieve it.

Talking money at this point is silly. We don't even know what we are raising money for.

This can all be done. We just need all the different web site operators to sit down and hash out getting it combined.

We can be mighty if we are all moving with one purpose.

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Monday, January 16, 2006 8:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wildhare:
Before we even talk about money. We need to get all the Firefly and Serenity sites gathered into one site. Get all the users combined on one board. Get Browncoat radio and Firefly talk on the same program on the net. Get everyone together in one meeting place. Decided what we are trying to accomplish. Then worry about raising money to achieve it.

Talking money at this point is silly. We don't even know what we are raising money for.

This can all be done. We just need all the different web site operators to sit down and hash out getting it combined.

We can be mighty if we are all moving with one purpose.

It's my opinion (and that's all it is) that having a vareity of sites and strategies and ideas is what makes us strong.

I have an idea. It involves giving Joss leverage to re-introduce the 'verse how he sees fit. It's by talking the language of money to those who specialize in that language.

Please do follow through on your ideas. It's by everyone who can following through that we will succeed.

Our one purpose is seeing more stories of Firefly. Our movement can be together while individual efforts are separate.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

NOSADSEVEN

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatsriseagain:
[...]

It gets the idea out to the Browncoats where they can help shape and create it in their own image rather than a lawyer's. I'm a big boy and know I can get into legal trouble. Not all of life is about avoiding trouble - isn't that why we like this show?

[...]

That is why we have to TRULY misbehave. We are going to have to go against what society tells us, what the naysayers will tell us, and even what Joss or Mutant Enemy might tell us.

It is up to us. We can hope for the future of this 'verse or we can actively fight for it.

If you feel moved, donate. If you don't, please don't but let us know what stopped you.

I gotta say, Andrew, you're my kind of stupid.

I won't be donating money anytime soon - I just don't have much to speculate with on a tv show. (And if I did, I would need to more carefully judge your personal credibility, competence, and commitment, as well as the real possibility of success, before choosing your plan over any of the others that have been proposed.) But I do support what you are trying to do.

We are on the cusp of revolution in media distribution, and there is no reason other than institutional maintenence of the status quo for this type of paradigm to be dismissed. It is going to happen for some show...and damn if I don't want it to be Firefly.

Oh, and I have to ask... You're not, like, from Nigeria, right?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

NOSADSEVEN

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
[...]

Also charity? Who cares about charity? I say the money goes to the Nathan Fillion to host the Late Show fund. Just me huh? Fine. But the other ideas are good.

Not just you, Zeek. Not just you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:35 PM

Quote:

I gotta say, Andrew, you're my kind of stupid.

I won't be donating money anytime soon - I just don't have much to speculate with on a tv show. (And if I did, I would need to more carefully judge your personal credibility, competence, and commitment, as well as the real possibility of success, before choosing your plan over any of the others that have been proposed.) But I do support what you are trying to do.

We are on the cusp of revolution in media distribution, and there is no reason other than institutional maintenence of the status quo for this type of paradigm to be dismissed. It is going to happen for some show...and damn if I don't want it to be Firefly.

Oh, and I have to ask... You're not, like, from Nigeria, right?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

Ha ha. I'm from San Diego, CA. I own a company named BoxlineBox that does live and edited video production for medical device manufacturers and doctors.

My partner in this is named Ty Mabrey. He owns a website and animation production company called BangZoomPow.

I am 34 years old and own a condo near downtown. I have 2.5 year old twin boys. I drive a white Mini Cooper named "Lily".

It is a revolution we are witnessing. I want to be part of it as well.

I appreciate your appreciation for the idea. I would ask that if you believe in it that you might donate some small amount?

I have to say it again. We don't have to choose one plan. We need to attack this from as many different angles as we can muster.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

BOWIE

Monday, January 16, 2006 10:56 PM

I would just like to point out something.

Princess bride was much like firefly. When the movie came out, the film makers didn't know how to promote it, so it didn't grab people, but over the years so many people heard over word of mouth that it generated far more revenues then was expected at the first.

The difference is Firefly already had a huge audience when it came out. The populairity of Princess bride made them come out with a DVD with extra features a year or so ago. I have it, its really great, but we can't wait that long. We have the people, we can spread this verse threw the whole world, while they only had America and England, and we can market on our own.

That being said, I like the money giving idea, but don't think it would work. I think if Joss set up the account people would litterally pour in to donate, but we don't know you, and we don't trust you. I'm not in the money bussiness, so most of what your saying as assurances sounds like hot air to me.

I think people need to focus on getting this verse spread. I am greatly for, however, making a super site, where we can go to find out how many actuale fans there are, how many we're getting new every day. Thats very important info, because it tells us how well we're doing at recruiting.

Another thing I would like to sugjest is internet recruiting. We should try to get on sites that are created for related subjects, and push firefly. I have already started doing this, but I think we need more people to do stuff. Have the star Treck fans heard of us? How bout the long quiet Roswell fans? Is there anyway to ally with all these fan bases? To form an allaince?

To me this is the standing ground. To long have the TV people kicked good sci fi aside for crapy realaity shows, for dumb sit coms. Can we get the other sci fi fans who want to stand for sci fi? Stand to beat the TV's who would take away all the good programs that we love? What do you guys think?

If you play Nationstates.net check out the region Firefly.

IMPRESSION

Monday, January 16, 2006 11:10 PM

I think gettin all them other shows is a great rallying point and it seems as of late that reality shows are losing their ground and the eerie, scifi like televisions shows (i.e. Lost, Supernatural, etc), granted not totally scifi but still they give a sense of mystery and adventure of the unknown that maybe firefly has a better chance then we think if we just pushed it right.

MRBEN

Monday, January 16, 2006 11:13 PM

OK - I don't mean to be callous about this, but one of my major problems is that if I'm giving money to Firefly, then I want it to go to Firefly, not some charity, whether or not Joss happens to support it. (I already give to charity on a regular basis, and have nothing against it per se, FYI). That's why I suggested the pledgebank idea, whereby people pledge money, but if it ain't gonna happen, then they don't gotta pay.

Everyone would agree to something along the lines of "If Fox agree to release the rights to the show to Joss, and there is another 12 (or 24) episodes of Firefly promised, then I will donate $x towards the costs incurred." Then you add up all the money, take off a % to guesstimate those who would drop out, and then you have an actual proposal to go to Joss/Fox with, but without the danger of them turning around and saying "Nope, I'm sorry, not going to happen." and you being stuck with $28m(or whatever) which will have to go to a charity. Quite apart from that, I suspect it places unnecessary burden on Joss to have to make the decision of where to place $xx million of other peoples money.

mrben

"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org

GRIMJACK21502

Monday, January 16, 2006 11:40 PM

Our time is now.

I think that it is up to the forefathers and foremothers of the Firefly/Serenity Web presence to unite and offer several different courses of action. Post these ideas on the web-ring and let our verse decide on the best campaign.

To be honest raising money is probably the easiest thing to do...but it also offers the most problems (trust issues, entity formation, etc.). I always thought a show of force strikes "greed" into the hearts of tv execs.

According to our tale, Serenity was "born" out of the battle of Serenity Valley. I feel we need a rallying point as well.

What would Fox think if this Summer (say the weekend of San Diego Comic Con) thousands of Browncoats appeared around their studios peacefully protesting for the "release of our friends"?

The press would eat it up especially if we raised money on site and donated it to charity in the name of the Browncoats.

It is all about politics and a need to respond.

If we forced FOX to address us, it's a start.

"And once you're gone, you can never come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black"
-Neil Young

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mrben:
OK - I don't mean to be callous about this, but one of my major problems is that if I'm giving money to Firefly, then I want it to go to Firefly, not some charity, whether or not Joss happens to support it. (I already give to charity on a regular basis, and have nothing against it per se, FYI). That's why I suggested the pledgebank idea, whereby people pledge money, but if it ain't gonna happen, then they don't gotta pay.

Everyone would agree to something along the lines of "If Fox agree to release the rights to the show to Joss, and there is another 12 (or 24) episodes of Firefly promised, then I will donate $x towards the costs incurred." Then you add up all the money, take off a % to guesstimate those who would drop out, and then you have an actual proposal to go to Joss/Fox with, but without the danger of them turning around and saying "Nope, I'm sorry, not going to happen." and you being stuck with $28m(or whatever) which will have to go to a charity. Quite apart from that, I suspect it places unnecessary burden on Joss to have to make the decision of where to place $xx million of other peoples money.

mrben

"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org]

I want to like this idea because it makes things so much simpler, but here are my thoughts...

Studio executives are run by money - not promises of money. I don't see them taking something like that as seriously as 'real' money. Many of them still think of the internet as a fad.

Joss is bound and determined to make this happen. No matter what we raise I think it will go to future Firefly production.

I am a trustworthy indvidual and that will become clear over the next few weeks. I know it sounds like hot air right now because it is so new sounding to your ears. After a month of our website sticking around and that ticker amount rising maybe it will sound different.

If it doesn't, please don't donate. If it starts to move you, then by all means, please do.

Thanks for your continued participation and desire to see Firefly leave atmo.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GrimJack21502:
Our time is now.

I think that it is up to the forefathers and foremothers of the Firefly/Serenity Web presence to unite and offer several different courses of action. Post these ideas on the web-ring and let our verse decide on the best campaign.

To be honest raising money is probably the easiest thing to do...but it also offers the most problems (trust issues, entity formation, etc.). I always thought a show of force strikes "greed" into the hearts of tv execs.

According to our tale, Serenity was "born" out of the battle of Serenity Valley. I feel we need a rallying point as well.

What would Fox think if this Summer (say the weekend of San Diego Comic Con) thousands of Browncoats appeared around their studios peacefully protesting for the "release of our friends"?

The press would eat it up especially if we raised money on site and donated it to charity in the name of the Browncoats.

It is all about politics and a need to respond.

If we forced FOX to address us, it's a start.

"And once you're gone, you can never come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black"
-Neil Young

The actions you are talking about sound great! Our ideas are not mutually exclusive. We CAN do them all. I would be up for particpating. Let me know how the organizing goes and if I can be of any help.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:45 AM

Just an FYI,

The fund is starting to get donations. I had 4 in the last 10 minutes including 1 $50!

Thanks to those who donated and to those who haven't yet, I know you will when the time is right.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

IMPRESSION

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:54 AM

hey its great how enthusiastic you are bout raisin this money but we must all go back to the fact that paypal isn't exactly the safest of venues and a collection of money of that size in one account even for a short time before its moved into an actual bank account is still untrustworthy....not to mention the fact that you have a separate website and partner in a different career in which you are tryin to be successful...how do we know this money wont go to fund your other endeavors?

IMPRESSION

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:56 AM

also...maybe u should update the running price total more then once a week so that we know and can see a running total more frequently...i.e. if theres 1,ooo dollars in a fund and we only see the 387 on the page, how do we know theres 1,000 dollars or that its being saved...we need a running total and a investment log on the page to show when, who, how much, and how the money was donated to your page. we can't just see that theres money in a fund without the details and red tape.

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by impression:
hey its great how enthusiastic you are bout raisin this money but we must all go back to the fact that paypal isn't exactly the safest of venues and a collection of money of that size in one account even for a short time before its moved into an actual bank account is still untrustworthy....not to mention the fact that you have a separate website and partner in a different career in which you are tryin to be successful...how do we know this money wont go to fund your other endeavors?

Paypal was a beginning. It is a test to make sure that it was going to be worth it to spend my own time and money starting a non-profit and opening a merchant account.

We now have over $700 in donations. I originally thought of updating weekly as I thought donations would trickle in at first. I will change the website and will update at least once a day.

The fact that my partner and I have separate careers and are very successful in them should be a reassurance. I promise that this money (minus the credit card fees) will go to Firefly production.

This is purely an act of love on Ty's and my part of the 'verse and the possibilities that this opens up for future media projects and future Joss Whedons.

If you feel unsure, please don't donate. When you do feel sure, please do donate.

Thanks for the concerns. Keep them coming!

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

ANONYMOUS1

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous1:
It has been tried before with Enterprise and it fell apart.

Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatsriseagain:
I don't understand the early comment. We aren't trying to stop Joss or Fox or Universal from doing anything.

Enterprise was a show on UPN (as in the latest Star Trek show-even though it did not have the word Star Trek in the name). Fans got together and raised over a million dollars to have another
season. Things fell apart. UPN said No. I remember reading about it on the Internet.

I am saying Joss cannot make Firefly or Serenity without their permission. Fox can stop Joss from making anything Firefly. Universal can stop Joss from making anything Serenity.

It is too early to collect money.

Universal has to make a decision first on whether to fund a sequel or not. And then whether to do something with their SciFi channel.

Please consider changing your idea to a pledge campaign. Collect email addresses and pledge amounts. If Universal says NO to a sequel, then be ready with Joss on board. At that point you can email your list with Joss's approved funding idea. Joss can even set up a production company and we can buy stock in it.

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by impression:
also...maybe u should update the running price total more then once a week so that we know and can see a running total more frequently...i.e. if theres 1,ooo dollars in a fund and we only see the 387 on the page, how do we know theres 1,000 dollars or that its being saved...we need a running total and a investment log on the page to show when, who, how much, and how the money was donated to your page. we can't just see that theres money in a fund without the details and red tape.

I understand your concerns here, but there is a privacy issue. Some people may not want their donation public. As I said, I will update a least once a day the total amount. I will employ (at my own expense) an auditor and that report will be public as well.

In the meantime, only time can pass and trust build. For some that trust has come and they donated. For others, that trust hasn't materialized yet. Totally understandable and I am not going to pressure anyone.

Andrew

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous1:
Quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous1:
It has been tried before with Enterprise and it fell apart.

Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatsriseagain:
I don't understand the early comment. We aren't trying to stop Joss or Fox or Universal from doing anything.

Enterprise was a show on UPN (as in the latest Star Trek show-even though it did not have the word Star Trek in the name). Fans got together and raised over a million dollars to have another
season. Things fell apart. UPN said No. I remember reading about it on the Internet.

I am saying Joss cannot make Firefly or Serenity without their permission. Fox can stop Joss from making anything Firefly. Universal can stop Joss from making anything Serenity.

It is too early to collect money.

Universal has to make a decision first on whether to fund a sequel or not. And then whether to do something with their SciFi channel.

Please consider changing your idea to a pledge campaign. Collect email addresses and pledge amounts. If Universal says NO to a sequel, then be ready with Joss on board. At that point you can email your list with Joss's approved funding idea. Joss can even set up a production company and we can buy stock in it.

Here is what has changed in the world since the Enterprise fund-raiser:

TV series DVD releases became mainstream as executives saw the market.

Family Guy has come back on the air due to the
DVD market looking good. Firefly/Serenity has that and it can have this campaign as well.

Apple's iTunes started selling individual epsiodes for $2 opening the public up to the idea and what it might cost.

I think that only money will truly get Firefly on the air. Money in the form of continued top-seller DVDs and this campaign.

No one is being forced to give up their ideas in place of this one. Please consider started a pledge drive for those who don't want to donate now. I don't have the resources to cover that aspect as well.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

BIGREDBUTTON

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:38 AM

This is the same bad idea as the Save Enterprise campaign. And it's run by someone equally shadowy. I don't know this guy from Adam and I certainly wouldn't give him any money. If the big dogs in the Firefly community want to get behind this guy after doing their homework on him, I'll be all for it, but not until.

IMPRESSION

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:48 AM

i totally agree....get hakens and gossi to be representatives but also get in touch with universal and fox and anything and anyone else associated with firefly and serenity....send messages out everywhere even outside the browncoat community....go to other countries and other genres of websites....get a message spread

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigRedButton:
This is the same bad idea as the Save Enterprise campaign. And it's run by someone equally shadowy. I don't know this guy from Adam and I certainly wouldn't give him any money. If the big dogs in the Firefly community want to get behind this guy after doing their homework on him, I'll be all for it, but not until.

I wouldn't ask you to give any money until you felt it was real.

What made the idea bad for Save Enterprise? Perhaps it was the implementation?

Andrew

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by impression:
i totally agree....get hakens and gossi to be representatives but also get in touch with universal and fox and anything and anyone else associated with firefly and serenity....send messages out everywhere even outside the browncoat community....go to other countries and other genres of websites....get a message spread

If what I am doing causes others to sit up and take action and that action causes more Firefly episodes or a Serenity movie to be made - then I have done what I set out to do.

I am more than willing to be interviewed and background checked by the leaders of the community. I have already offered help to gossi to get the www.serenitymovie.org website back up and running.

Andrew

BIGREDBUTTON

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatsriseagain:
What made the idea bad for Save Enterprise? Perhaps it was the implementation?

Which, not unlike your own, was suspect. And their campaign, as the LA Times revealed and forced the creator to admit, was run by a convicted felon (demonstrating trustworthyness) who'd previously bankrupted a business (demonstrating ability to handle money) who had also run a toy club where he took people's money and never mailed them what they paid for (demonstrating history of fraud).

At least there, they knew what kind of scum they were dealing with. You, we know nothing about.

~You failed to approach the community ahead of time to pitch the idea.

~You failed to get any support from the MANY Firefly related website out there.

~You're using Paypal for this endeavor, which speaks for itself as just plain stupid.

~Your numbers are fuzzy math at best.

~You have no support from Mutant Enemy or anyone affiliated with the production phases of the show.

~You have no assurances from anyone on the inside at the money end that they'd take your money even if you had it to offer.

~You popped onto the scene for the first time today with a lot of vague answers.

So.... Your implementation is better how again?

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:24 AM

Well we are over the $800 mark and have over 60 people signed up for the newsletter which we are making and will be done with by tomorrow.

We also have had over 30 people "Send this to a friend" with some great comments.

We have been mentioned and linked to via the very popular blog boingboing.net. We are getting into the general blogpsace right now because of it.

We are now on the site list www.browncoats.com

I have contacted several other sites including the podcasts and will hear from them soon.

We are on our way - much faster than anticpated but keeping up.

Thanks again all for both your contributions and your insightful criticisms.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigRedButton:
Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatsriseagain:
What made the idea bad for Save Enterprise? Perhaps it was the implementation?

Which, not unlike your own, was suspect. And their campaign, as the LA Times revealed and forced the creator to admit, was run by a convicted felon (demonstrating trustworthyness) who'd previously bankrupted a business (demonstrating ability to handle money) who had also run a toy club where he took people's money and never mailed them what they paid for (demonstrating history of fraud).

At least there, they knew what kind of scum they were dealing with. You, we know nothing about.

~You failed to approach the community ahead of time to pitch the idea.

~You failed to get any support from the MANY Firefly related website out there.

~You're using Paypal for this endeavor, which speaks for itself as just plain stupid.

~Your numbers are fuzzy math at best.

~You have no support from Mutant Enemy or anyone affiliated with the production phases of the show.

~You have no assurances from anyone on the inside at the money end that they'd take your money even if you had it to offer.

~You popped onto the scene for the first time today with a lot of vague answers.

So.... Your implementation is better how again?

The idea is out there today for the first time - this is true. I am listening intently to everything that is being said and taking a lot of it into implementation.

If I had brought the idea up without any substance i.e. a website and beginning structure behind it would this dialog be really any different? I doubt it. The time to comment and change is now.

I am willing to put my reputation on the line. If someone that the Firefly community trusts wants to do a background check on me, please contact me.

Paypal is just a beginning as I said. I am paying for all extra expenses out of pocket and am setting up the structures to take on that much more responsibility.

I am new to the Firefly community. Brand newly minted Browncoat - no doubt. I will be around for a long time and am willing to wait to have that trust grow.

Thanks again for all of the attention. I just noticed that Whedonesque has asked about us!

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

ANONYMOUS1

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 3:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatsriseagain:
I just noticed that Whedonesque has asked about us!

http://whedonesque.com/comments/9282

Quote:
We're not going to link to this site until more and firmer details are available. Thanks. SoddingNancyTribe | January 17, 04:39 CET

Whedonesque good place to convince. Joss posts there. Be patient, browncoatsriseagain. It may take a while for that background check.

Or then again maybe the background check will not take that long at all. whedonesque has totally deleted the post mentioning this idea and website.

MISBEHAVIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:19 AM

I strongly suggest that all here look very CAREFULLY before contributing any money to this. A whois on the domain name shows it registered to NEW DREAM NETWORK, LLC, which is apparently an internet service provider/registrant. The Better Business Bureau rates New Dream Network LLC an 'F' because they haven't responded to complaints. See http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expositor
y.aspx?CompanyID=13131294

If the answer to this is that New Dream isn't the actual owner of the site then there's still something wrong, because the name of the actual registrant is supposed to be shown in a whois for the integrity of the registry.

The first thing I noticed when visiting the website was that there is no name and no address. As aforementioned, there is no past posting history and no credibility built up. They could have/should have sought to establish some sort of the board of trustees, made up of possibly folks who run the well-established sites like fireflyfans.net. I'm not against any well-intentioned effort to bring back this verse, but this doesn't look right.

SNAP

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:33 AM

While this is a great idea, until Joss stamps something and possibly controls the money. It ain't ever going to happen.

YOMUDDA

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:35 AM

i am all for bringing back this amazing series but i dont think supporting joss with the money will do too well since it would require a hell of alot of money an we couldnt keep supplying him with money to make each episode we'd end up goin broke ourselves itd be easier an better to just show fox how many people support if there is enough people supporting it an fox will be more then happy to fund the show

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by yomudda:
i am all for bringing back this amazing series but i dont think supporting joss with the money will do too well since it would require a hell of alot of money an we couldnt keep supplying him with money to make each episode we'd end up goin broke ourselves itd be easier an better to just show fox how many people support if there is enough people supporting it an fox will be more then happy to fund the show

This is about leverage and the future. In the near future, there will be shows that are funded in part or all by people buying the episodes or a DVD of episodes. This is nearly certain as some shows that wouldn't pass muster on a TV channel for lack of a large audience will do just fine as a download or direct-to-DVD project.

You do keep supplying money for each episode right now indirectly through your purchases which the advertiser hope is affected by the ads you see and is why they pay millions of dollars for TV ads in a year.

You only have to pay a small amount. No one is asking you to pay thousands of dollars. Just a few tens and five. Or whatever you can afford. It is the leverage of thousands of people doing this that makes the magic.

And the magic of that cash backing up Joss Whedon to get us what we want - more stories in the 'verse is what we are aiming for.

If you don't believe in it right now, that's okay we'll take your donation when you do.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

SHINY

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:47 AM

Andrew, you might want to connect with Jeremy (aka DVDJeremy, aka JaySedai I think) who runs fireflymovie.com/serenitymovie.net -- he floated a direct-to-DVD idea/plan a couple years ago and may have some info and/or contacts that would help you get this off the ground.

---

I don't need a gorram back-spaceship driver!!!

SHINY

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bowie:
I think if Joss set up the account people would litterally pour in to donate

This is my main question -- if Joss really is interested in bringing Firefly/Serenity stories back to the small screen, why wouldn't he, Gareth Davies, Chris Buchanan, etc. put together a similar fund? Joss has on a number of occasions expressed his disappointment in how network TV operates, so why wouldn't he be interested in pushing the envelope?

While I would be the first to contribute (far more than the requested $25) if someone like Joss or Chris gave me some indication that there's any chance it would work, in the absense of such reassurances I agree with others that a better use of the money would be to buy DVDs and give them away as gifts to convert those that are not (yet) fans.

Hmmm...now that I think about it, perhaps if your alternative use of the money was buying DVDs for libraries across the country or something instead of charity it would make more sense...after all, that will bring in more browncoats than a single gift to charity...

---

I don't need a gorram back-spaceship driver!!!

MRBEN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:19 AM

Quote:
I promise that this money (minus the credit card fees) will go to Firefly production.

How can you promise this? You, at this point, have no guarantee that there is somebody at the other end involved in Firefly production who will actually receive the money.

Once this is guaranteed, then I will happily donate.

mrben

"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org

GOLDINBOY

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:01 AM

I don't know if this has already been posted since I don't have time to read all the posts, but it would be nice to see a poll on the web page regarding how many people would donate (including those who already have) if they had complete confidence the money would go to the right place. this would give us, and the entertainment officials an idea of how many people are interested and how much we could raise if all is done in a trust worthy fashion.

I like the idea, keep up the good work!

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mrben:
Quote:
I promise that this money (minus the credit card fees) will go to Firefly production.

How can you promise this? You, at this point, have no guarantee that there is somebody at the other end involved in Firefly production who will actually receive the money.

Once this is guaranteed, then I will happily donate.

mrben

"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org

My apologies, my promise was meant to convey that I would never touch the money myself. There is the chance that the money would go to charity.

Although, another person had the idea that instead of the charity option, buy more DVDs and distribute them. What does everyone think about that?

Andrew

BIGREDBUTTON

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatsriseagain:

Although, another person had the idea that instead of the charity option, buy more DVDs and distribute them. What does everyone think about that?

I think you're legally obligated to the people that have already contributed to your cause to give that money to the charity of Joss' choosing. You don't have the right to change those people's minds about where their money is going.

Day two and you're already tap-dancing in the legal minefield. Good job.

And don't do what the Save Enterprise morons did. Whenever they discovered a gaping whole in their plan, they simply changed the website to hide it or fix it willy-nilly. We don't trust you, so you KNOW we're watching you. You change the PUNCTUATION on your site and we'll notice.

SHEUNDERSTANDS

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:16 PM

Here's the point.

You MAY have good intentions. But what's to say someone with bad intentions could not do exactly what you're doing and then jet with the booty. You've explicitedly said you can't guarantee the money past the word. But who are you anyway. And yet you've already shown you can raise 1000 bucks in a day just by saying you "promise" on an internet chat board. Even if you intend to do well with this money, you've put people in a bad position.

I hate to label you as a con artist, but people even did this with fake Red Cross sites during the hurricane. If you truly aren't a con artist, then the best thing to do as a true browncoat, in my opinion is to stop taking donations, until you can get a third party to guarantee this money past the word of some unidentified internet persona.

As far as I know, if people want to guarantee money goes towards firefly, then simply buy another copy (or 2) and give it to a friend.

SHEUNDERSTANDS

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:22 PM

That is, your answers to people's concerns are exactly what a con would say. Even if you're not conning us now, you're promoting people to donate without investigating the charity and paving the way for them to be duped later. Even if it results in freezing the current dough, I have a feeling it may be best for a lot of us to report this guy to paypal and have his account frozen so that no one else loses money until this is verified appropriately. I'm surprised the board moderateors haven't taken issue to some random guy asking for money on their board in the name of firefly with nothing but a makeshift website and a promise.

MICK91

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:29 PM

Organization and Browncoats don't really mix. The word is already getting out on the street and if Joss is listening, have faith that it will probably happen on its own (without your donations).

BIGREDBUTTON

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mick91:
Organization and Browncoats don't really mix. The word is already getting out on the street and if Joss is listening, have faith that it will probably happen on its own (without your donations).

Nothing would make me happier than if Joss responded with a C&D. The Browncoat community simply doesn't need to get into the same disasterous situation that the Save Enterprise crowd created.

MISBEHAVIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SheUnderstands:
That is, your answers to people's concerns are exactly what a con would say...

Yes. Sadly, any money that has been contributed already is probably gone. This person says, essentially, that you aren't risking much in exchange for the chance of a great reward. That's at the heart of a con. Watch the film "House of Games" for an excellent portrait of a con. Browncoats are generally nice people who want desperately to believe. They are sacrificial to the point of donating to collectively purchase the original browncoat or donate DVDs to a library. Unfortunately, that makes us a good mark. The show we all love is about a handful of crooks, albeit likeable ones. We should be better at spotting another Badger or Patience. Remember what Book said in the BDM: He'll sidle up to you in a friendly way and then hit you where you're weak.

ZEEK

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:32 PM

Not even being able to bring up the website anymore isn't instilling much trust either.

I suggest the course of freezing the account for now. Until someone we already trust gives the green light.

BIGREDBUTTON

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Not even being able to bring up the website anymore isn't instilling much trust either.

I suggest the course of freezing the account for now. Until someone we already trust gives the green light.

Must be that Andrew Schultz figured that he's conned all the money that he's gonna get out of this crowd.

NANASHI

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:46 PM

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

www.pledgebank.com

This, in my opinion, is a far far better solution
for this issue. You only actually donate money
when a target's been reached. When it'll make
a difference.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

BIGREDBUTTON

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:06 PM

Well, looks like he folded under pressure.

"No more donations are being taken at this time!
We are in the process of returning all donations received. We came up against insurmountable odds and legal issues launching our fund-riasing drive. firefly@browncoatsriseagain.com

If the money is buring a hole in your pocket, please buy a DVD. Firely and Serenity sales at this time will further our cause. We will continue the fight to re-light Firefly using other methods. Thank you for you support in our first 36 hours of activity. "

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:42 PM

Looks can be deceiving. I got lots of well thought out responses and flames for this idea.

It brought out a lot of bitterness in people that I simply did not expect. It also brought a lot of generosity and love I didn't fully expect either.

We stopped the campaign, not because of the bitterness, but because of a television producer who got a hold of me and taught me a little more about the inside of the television world.

It's about not being an albatross around Joss' neck. A lot of decisions in Film/TV are made on an emotional level. We were approaching this entirely from a logical level (nerds that we are). It was made clear to me that a decision maker would react badly to fan's money being involved in the production no matter how it was presented.

So, after a night of tossing and turning, I woke up this morning and decided to close down the campaign before it got really big and impossible to stop.

I just completed refunding everyone's money. I closed the account so no more money would come in.

We do have several other ideas to help with DVD sales and marketing those numbers to the decision makers.

I hope to partner with the Browncoat's 'verse in the future to help make this happen. It will be a partnership. No more suprises!

Again, thanks again for every bit of input. I loved doing it and I will be around.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:46 PM

Looks can be deceiving. I got lots of well thought out responses and flames for this idea.

It brought out a lot of bitterness in people that I simply did not expect. It also brought a lot of generosity and love I didn't fully expect either.

We stopped the campaign, not because of the bitterness, but because of a television producer who got a hold of me and taught me a little more about the inside of the television world.

It's about not being an albatross around Joss' neck. A lot of decisions in Film/TV are made on an emotional level. We were approaching this entirely from a logical level (nerds that we are). It was made clear to me that a decision maker would react badly to fan's money being involved in the production no matter how it was presented.

So, after a night of tossing and turning, I woke up this morning and decided to close down the campaign before it got really big and impossible to stop.

I just completed refunding everyone's money. I closed the account so no more money would come in.

We do have several other ideas to help with DVD sales and marketing those numbers to the decision makers.

I hope to partner with the Browncoat's 'verse in the future to help make this happen. It will be a partnership. No more suprises!

Again, thanks again for every bit of input. I loved doing it and I will be around.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

SZIKI

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:48 PM

I’m just curios… I didn’t donate, but did anybody and then got his money back? Or was this just a cheap trick to make the browncoat community 1000 bucks poorer? I hope not!

BUT this won’t stop us! Nobody can stop us, cuz everybody here knows: You can’t stop the signal! We will fight on…

(By the way I really hope you are a honest man and will return the donations… And if you truly want to be a browncoat, you can still do many things that support Firefly…)
Cya all…

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sziki:
I’m just curios… I didn’t donate, but did anybody and then got his money back? Or was this just a cheap trick to make the browncoat community 1000 bucks poorer? I hope not!

BUT this won’t stop us! Nobody can stop us, cuz everybody here knows: You can’t stop the signal! We will fight on…

(By the way I really hope you are a honest man and will return the donations… And if you truly want to be a browncoat, you can still do many things that support Firefly…)
Cya all…

I did return all the money. If anyone doesn't get their refund, please let me know!

I will be around to help where I can with the cause.

I am saddened by the deep mistrust that I see by some of the people who posted and e-mailed me. However, the great majority of people I had the pleasure of writing to were supportive and had constructive things to say.

If this campaign did not else but stir up enough people to double their own efforts, it was worth it.

Thanks again,

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com

PILOTRITA

Monday, January 23, 2006 12:17 PM

Just curious, the website still works...any word on what the latest is?

Let's be bad guys!

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Friday, January 27, 2006 6:56 PM

Our website will go live again with 10 things a Browncoat can do now!

The 10 things will evolve as new initiatives come alive, new shinys arrive to buy, etc.

We are working on other features as well, but this one will be first.

We hope to up and running again by the end of today.

Andrew

CAITE

Saturday, January 28, 2006 10:40 PM

Hello everyone! Long time no post. I've been working hard as a first year teacher, so I don't get to play on the net as much as before.

Well, anyway, my Mom was going to contribute to this venture, and I told her that I didn't trust it worth a darn. Luckily, his site folded before she could send him money. I'd like to point out that she doesn't HAVE extra money to throw away, but was going to do it out of her love of the 'verse. Browncoats, please don't let your love of the 'verse be used against you! Don't EVER contribute money to someone that you don't know and haven't checked out. I don't know Andrew, and I don't know if he's on the up-and-up, but with all the scams in the world nowadays, there's no such thing as being too careful.

Oh, and Andrew, if you ARE a con artist, you're going to burn in a very special level of hell indeed.

SHADOWFLY

Sunday, January 29, 2006 5:42 AM

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Caite:
Hello everyone! Long time no post. I've been working hard as a first year teacher, so I don't get to play on the net as much as before.

Well, anyway, my Mom was going to contribute to this venture, and I told her that I didn't trust it worth a darn. Luckily, his site folded before she could send him money. I'd like to point out that she doesn't HAVE extra money to throw away, but was going to do it out of her love of the 'verse. Browncoats, please don't let your love of the 'verse be used against you! Don't EVER contribute money to someone that you don't know and haven't checked out. I don't know Andrew, and I don't know if he's on the up-and-up, but with all the scams in the world nowadays, there's no such thing as being too careful.

Oh, and Andrew, if you ARE a con artist, you're going to burn in a very special level of hell indeed.

I'm glad that level of hell doesn't have my invite waiting. :) I don't know if you heard, but we gave back every dime of the money that was contributed. Not one complaint has reached me about not getting a refund.

It didn't 'fold' either I'm still here and I'm still contributing what I can. We just updating our website now although there are still typos and it's not finished, it is up.

Andrew

RYANW2050

Monday, January 30, 2006 9:39 PM

I think there are a bunch of problems.

1. Are we sure Joss even wants to do more Firefly?
2. All of the actors are off doing their own thing now.
3. What reason would FOX ever have to let their copyrights go?

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Monday, January 30, 2006 10:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RyanW2050:
I think there are a bunch of problems.

1. Are we sure Joss even wants to do more Firefly?
2. All of the actors are off doing their own thing now.
3. What reason would FOX ever have to let their copyrights go?

1. No we are not. He has indicated in lots of interviews that he is, though. However, no Joss - no show.

2. This is true. It might not (and can't) be the same show it was (new plots and characters of some sort have to be introduced. All of the people the crew worked for died too!) That's Joss' ultimate call. Not a reason to at least try.

3. No one is asking Fox to let go of their rights to the show. It is to buy the option on those rights for a limited time (usually a year and the n can be renewed) to produce new Firefly. Fox would retain permanent rights and would probably have right of first refusal. Right now, those rights are sitting idle earning them nothing. Optioning them to someone who is interested makes them money. They could be interested. Again, not knowing until the asking has happened.

Andrew

RYANW2050

Monday, January 30, 2006 10:34 PM

If another season is possible, why isn't joss doing it?

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Tuesday, January 31, 2006 3:59 AM

Joss in an interview said,

"...There could be a series, there could be a miniseries, there could be all sorts of things. I'm not ruling anything out. I'll let it simmer for a while and see if anyone calls."

Sounds like he is interested doesn't it?, but maybe he is tired of being the one taking the risks? He has plenty on his plate now, but if someone presented him and Fox with a business plan that could work it would let him say "Yes".

Also, Joss isn't a perfect man with a perfect plan and he would probably abhor being though of as such.

Andrew

LUCASHARPER

Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:40 AM

I'm a little late getting here but I gotta respond all the same.

You asked that if we don't donate, to please let you know why.

Ok.

I ain't donatin' a cent.

Why?

I think it's a scam.

Pure and simple as that.

If it ain't then it ain't.

But my opinion is that this is a one big take to suck people in and get their hard earned.

If not, good luck to you.

Luc.

www.guyandpenguin.com

BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN

Thursday, March 16, 2006 11:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LucasHarper:
I'm a little late getting here but I gotta respond all the same.

You asked that if we don't donate, to please let you know why.

Ok.

I ain't donatin' a cent.

Why?

I think it's a scam.

Pure and simple as that.

If it ain't then it ain't.

But my opinion is that this is a one big take to suck people in and get their hard earned.

If not, good luck to you.

Luc.

www.guyandpenguin.com

Thanks for the good wishes. You might check out our website. We decided to not raise money and have emphasized what an everyday Browncoat can do to help bring back the 'verse. Not one person's bank account was harmed in the making of this post.

2 months late but glad you particpated anyway.

Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com