The best villains in firefly- who gets your vote?

POSTED BY: Stubbs
UPDATED: Thursday, May 3, 2007 14:45
VIEWED: 34533
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STUBBS

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 4:18 PM

i dont know if this has been done before but im new so forgive my ignorance. I think we should have a debate over who the best Firefly villain is. The nominees are-
Jubal Early
Niska
Saffron
Patience
The reavers
and any others you can think of (even Jayne if youre feeling fruity). I personally would go for Saffron because shes such a bitch! she is excellent at her job and just when you think shes shown signs of humanity she turns out to be that bitch again. So, best villains

Stubbs

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 4:22 PM

Jubal Early. That scene with Kaylee in the engine room is forever burned into my memory. I think I can pretty much quote it word for word, and it still makes me shudder when I watch it.

MATTCOZ

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 4:23 PM

Two by two...

STUBBS

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 4:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
Jubal Early. That scene with Kaylee in the engine room is forever burned into my memory. I think I can pretty much quote it word for word, and it still makes me shudder when I watch it.

When he says have you ever been raped i was almost as afraid as her. Kaylee is so vulnerable in that scene. Jewel Staite plays it so well

Stubbs

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 4:27 PM

Man is by far stronger than woman, yet only woman can make a child; that seem right to you?

It's Jubal Chrisisall

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 4:50 PM

Quote:
When he says have you ever been raped i was almost as afraid as her. Kaylee is so vulnerable in that scene. Jewel Staite plays it so well

Jewel was incredible in that scene. I've never been able to forget the look of terror on her face during that scene.

Kaylee: The c-captrain is right down the hall, the can h-hear you...
Jubel: The captain is locked in his quaters. Same as the rest of the crew. There's no one can help you. Say it.
Kaylee: (crying) There's no one can help me...

ISAACSHEPHERD

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 5:23 PM

Not sure if Badger counts, if he does I'd have to say he's my favorite. You know, fancy hat, roots in the community and such.
Another villian I have to give credit is the Operative. I can't say why I like him, maybe cause he's so calm and intelligent. In the BDM when Mal first meets him the Operative is great. Mal questions his tactis and the Operative explains exactly how Mal would respond very quickly. Then of course claims he's unarmed and is shot is quite hilarious.
IS

The Bible's a bit fuzzy on the subject of kneecaps.

MATTCOZ

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 5:33 PM

Jewel is a fantastic actress, really a shame she doesn't get more roles.

NUCLEARDAY

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 5:34 PM

That's one that seems to get tougher the more I think about it...

Jubal's one of those villains that I'd love to hate. Just wanted to rip his lungs out after that scene with Kaylee, but by the end of the ep, I was sort of wondering if he'd somehow manage to survive and show up later on in the series.

And you can't forget about Badger... ;p

Really, really liked the Operative, though. (Chiwetel Ejiofor is a really great actor anyways, so that helps.) Sort of a sympathetic villain, really. Agreed, it's hard to put my finger on it, but there's that sense of compassion and intelligence about him... quite possibly the last man in the 'verse I'd want gunning for me.

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

THIEFJEHAT

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:00 PM

The Bounty Hunter philosopher is by far the most well written villian since the Mayor in season 3 Buffy.

Jubal Early. #1

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

LEIGHKOHL

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:11 PM

For my money, it's Saffron. She is so manipulative and hilarious! She's the best kind of villian because you seem to be rooting for her, even when you know she's a complete liar and a bit of a sociopath. Jubal would have to be my second favorite, he's just creepy.

STAKETHELURK

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:44 PM

If we’re talking only about “Firefly,” which I think we are, Jubal Early gets my vote. Smart, scary, philosophical, and more than a little nuts--he’s got it all.

But if we threw in the BDM, it’s the Operative, hands down. “Secrets are not my concern. Keeping them is.”

DONCOAT

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:20 PM

I'm not saying he's my all-time favorite, but how's about a little shout-out for Crow?

He at least had the most memorable comeuppance of any of our BDH's antagonists. He even shares famous-last-words honors with Early.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I know Jubal Early is alive." -- Joss Whedon

SINGATE

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:34 PM

A lot of people have been up in arms about what Early said to Kaylee. Everything he did aboard Serenity was for one purpose: to get at River. I don't believe he had any intention of harming Kaylee. He just needed to scare her so much that she wouldn't try to hinder him. From what Joss said in the commentary Early was intuitive to the point of almost being psychic. Therefore he has an understanding of how to best deal with each crew member. Remember, he could have killed anyone on board but he did not. He knocks out Mal, then locks the majority of the crew in their quarters. He goes on to scare Kaylee in the worst way he can and later uses her to gain Simon's compliance. Everything he did was calculated to get at River with the least amount of resistance as possible. Not the actions of a nice man but certain not the worst villain our BDH have encountered.

My vote goes to Niska. That man is truly evil. Anyone would torture someone to death only to revive him with the sole purpose of making him suffer further is a bad MF.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

ZORPRIME01

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:34 PM

I vote for Saffron, followed closely by Early.

I can kill you with my brian.

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 9:23 PM

Quote:
I don't believe he had any intention of harming Kaylee.

I respectfully disagree. Jubal didn't hurt the crew as much as he could have, but he was still an evil, nasty person who I think would have enjoyed hurting them very much. He says to Simon that he would "take no pleasure" in hurting Kaylee, but River sees right through this, letting us know just how depraved he really is.

Jubal says he only hurts people "when the job requires it", but River lets us know that this isn't true. "It's why you took the job." She makes it very clear that Jubal has been hurting things since childhood - the description of how he killed the dog that didn't like him and "cleaned up after" is downright disturbing. Remember too that in that scene we get a glimpse of the monster under that calm exterior, when we see Jubal's calm face intercut with his true reaction to River's words.

I think Jubal was determained to get River and his reward, but make no mistake - he would have had no qualms about hurting Kaylee. He would have enjoyed it.

I really don't like him!

AGIRLYMAN

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 10:25 PM

He may not be the worst villian, but he is the one I hate the most, yet I don't know his name. He is the Captain that shot Mal in "Out of gas". I even tried to listen to it, and I would like to see that guy get what he deserved.

AM I NOT MERCIFUL?!?!?!?

Tee Hee

JCW

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 10:35 PM

...hands of blue

PERSEPHONE736

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 10:37 PM

Niska, without a doubt.

THEREAVER

Wednesday, March 15, 2006 10:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Persephone736:
Niska, without a doubt.

Agreed. There's one line that does it for me. It goes something like:

"My wife's nephew. I get talking to at dinner but this is unavoidable."

-----------------------
I'll rape you to death.
I'll eat your flesh.
I'll sew your skin into my clothes.
If you're very very lucky, I'll do it in that order - TheReaver

ZAKNRFAMA

Thursday, March 16, 2006 3:23 AM

Got to say Niska, with Badger coming in at second (even though he's not on the list). Niska is just so very evil. His cruelty actually surprised me, I didn't think he'd go so far. And Badger's just really damn cool. I love that hat.

GARYPRYKE

Thursday, March 16, 2006 3:40 PM

Blue Gloves.

Oh and are you counting The Operative?

RHODRI

Friday, March 17, 2006 4:18 PM

Niska is the most evil B#@%#*d of the lot.

Let's face it - nobody would want to be in his clutches! Saffron's yes, but definitely NOT Niska!

BigDamnVillain #1

ARCADIA

Friday, March 17, 2006 4:31 PM

I don't think of myself as a lion. You may as well, though: I have a mighty roar.

Jubal Early, a villian of my heart.

He's my favorite because a) his dialogue is existentially awesome b) he is scary as hell [Kaylee's near-rape scene, ah!] c) he is by no means a stupid villian. We really should be afraid of him. If he had been after anyone how wasn't a psychic, they would have been gone.

I've no sure if he is the most evil. Niska is probably eviler, but Early is definately the coolest, most interesting villian. I'm so sad we won't see more of him.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Objects in Space"
River: It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think...

LADYSERENITY

Friday, March 17, 2006 8:26 PM

I do agree that Jubal Early is a great villain. Tha scene with him and Kaylee in the engine room makes a chill go down my spine every time I watch it. And the part on the bridge where River is talking about his dog and his mother and the scene cuts to him screaming and shaking his head and going crazy? Freaky. But I can't shake "two by two hands of blue" The blue gloves in "Ariel" really make me shudder. They just sit there and calmly pull out this weapon that makes you bleed out all your orifices. Ewww. And insanely creepy. Evil if you ask me. Goes along with how the Operative would ask how you are then run you through with that sword of his.

"Serenity part one"
Kaylee:I love my captain.

LADYSERENITY

Friday, March 17, 2006 8:27 PM

I do agree that Jubal Early is a great villain. That scene with him and Kaylee in the engine room makes a chill go down my spine every time I watch it. And the part on the bridge where River is talking about his dog and his mother and the scene cuts to him screaming and shaking his head and going crazy? Freaky. But I can't shake "two by two hands of blue" The blue gloves in "Ariel" really make me shudder. They just sit there and calmly pull out this weapon that makes you bleed out all your orifices. Ewww. And insanely creepy. Evil if you ask me. Goes along with how the Operative would ask how you are then run you through with that sword of his.

"Serenity" part one
Kaylee: I love my captain.

20THCENTFOXHATER

Friday, March 17, 2006 9:26 PM

i would go for either Niska or the Blue Hands. The Blue Hands are soooooo Joss Whedon scary. They're mysterious, and are very original in premise. But Niska is just plain ol' Nazi freaky, which is pretty scary being that you probably wouldn't want to be tortured.

"I aim to misbehave."
"Can't do something smart, do something right".

HOMER: "Oh Lisa, you and your stories; Bart is a vampire, beer kills brain cells. Now lets go back to that... building thingy... where our beds and T.V.... is".

DONCOAT

Friday, March 17, 2006 11:32 PM

Yeah. Pain is scary.

I heard that someplace...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

JOCKOCKEYOCK

Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:40 AM

um you forgot the entire Aliance people...

Saphrons not a villan but a vixon

Niskas just old a grumpy

Earlys not right in the head

Patience was a power mongol and had to feed her people more than half a moons worth

The Reavers well their canibles they got to eat something and have hobbies

Jayne well hes in love with money not a villan

The agants with gloves were just doing thier jobs covering up the mess that River leaves in her wake or rather killing all the people that she has contact with

can we concider bager to be a villan? he is an agravating antaganistic lying cheeting peice of gosa

The best villan would be Shun Yu or how ever you spell his name. he put people in valcanos for fun... now thats evil... specualy when you live in the middle of a desrt...

The court of this obsession, is abstracted from possession which when the worlds of outside in fall.

NATEM

Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:14 PM

I was just thinking about on one of the special features one of the characters quotes Willem Defoe saying there is no difference between hero or villain because both think they are right, that they are justified. That being said I think the Operative would be best because he new what he did was evil but he still did it for a greater good. So he was sacrificing himself for what was "right" which is a heroic quality even if he is a villain.

J6NGO1977

Sunday, March 26, 2006 10:46 AM

Definately the Reavers. They are bad. I don't see Badger there? but I guess he isn't really a villain. Saff she is bad but that's what's so damned sexy about her :)

GREATBLACKTHORN

Monday, March 27, 2006 3:01 PM

The Operative, HANDS DOWN. Simply cus he's so gorram cool. Niska, I just hate, alot...

Any villain that uses a sword wins, fact. Jubal doesn't want to kill most of the time by the looks of it, Niska loves to kill and is a twisted son'bitch, but the Operative kills and doesn't flinch. He even knows he's a monster...OPERATIVE FOR PRESIDENT!! >_>

She'll turn you in before you can say "Don't turn me in...lady..."

MILFORD

Wednesday, March 29, 2006 12:58 AM

What about Badger? If it wasn't for him, we'd miss out on a couple of the best episodes in the whole series. I also like him because he's the only person in the whole verse not put off by River. She seems perfectly normal to him. That is at first hilarious and then creepy. Beyond him I'd have to go with Jubal and then the two by two guys. They're both creepy. But as for pure villainy, Badger gets my vote.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Customizeable handmade baby gifts personalized by my wife! Check them out at www.baby-bobo.com. All proceeds go towards international adoption.

Leaning into the wind that used to carry me-Stavesacre

USAGIVINDALOO

Wednesday, March 29, 2006 4:53 AM

Oh wow... that's a tough one. I think I'd have to hand it to the Two By Two Hands of Blue people, they were just SCARY. Even in their very first appearance at the end of the episode, they gave me the chills; River's obsession over them alone freaked the heck out of me. I remember thinking that if she was so fixated on them, they MUST have done something truly horrible. I can't wait to get my hands on the comic about them someday.

To be honest, the fact they didn't use those two initially prejudiced me against the Operative ("Why make a new character when you had great villains already?") but that didn't even last past the first viewing. The Operative was wonderful, so ruthless and yet admirable in a way in his focus. He was wonderful and almost on par with the Hands of Blue.

I also loved Early and would put him at about the same level as the others. My love of Law and Order aside, he just had the best lines, absolutely hilarious, yet that scene with Kaylee made me want to scream. I hope that he survives to return in future installations!

EDIT: And OMG, how could I forget the Reavers? Bushwacked (the one with the derelict, right?) was an exercise in creepiness, and that survivor... SCREAM. I also thought the first pass through Reaver space in the BDM was freaky with the screaming over the radio.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, March 29, 2006 8:51 PM

I'm picking Rance Burgess from Heart of Gold as the best villain for three reasons.
1. He truly is quite villainous.
2. Any Man who worries our Captain must be someone to be reckoned with.
3. And finally, because no one else has picked him yet.

De-lurking to stir stuff up

TARRISH

Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:06 AM

I'd have to say my favorite villain from the entire show would have to be Jubal Early. He was funny, crazy, and smart all at the same time. The guy was written in such a creative fashion. I loved how he philosophized everything. Bounty Hunters are some of the coolest villains when they are put in that category.

The two other villains that tie in second are The Reavers and Hands of Blue. The Reavers were wicked, and I wish we could have got a better look at them. The Hands in Blue were just creepy. They reminded me of the silent men from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Just plain creepy, and River sure didn't take a liking to them.

JOSSISAGOD

Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:50 AM

The Blue-hands men get my vote. They're ruthless and probably one of two types of beings in the 'verse that would give River a fight, before she gutted them! the other being The Operative.
Niska's a close third.

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

SPACECOWGIRL

Thursday, March 30, 2006 1:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
My vote goes to Niska. That man is truly evil. Anyone would torture someone to death only to revive him with the sole purpose of making him suffer further is a bad MF.

I have to go with Niska also. Jubal Early was scary too--but at least we knew he was mentally disturbed. Niska was just evil, and he enjoyed it.

Certainty of death, small chance of success--
What are we waitin' for?

KIZYR

Friday, March 31, 2006 1:38 AM

This is tough... real tough.
I mean, all the villians in Firefly have their own points where you just love to hate them.

After mulling it over, I'd have to say that the Operative is at the top of the list. He just didn't slip up; he had no qualms about being evil--even owned up to it--but had a whole ends-justify-means philosophy that was his guiding principle. He was someone entirely unencumbered by any other considerations to get to his goal.

He's the kind of villian where you can't find a weak point. You can barely stay one step ahead of him, if ahead of him at all. The only reason Mal won was... well... he had a psychic on his side and was just that much faster.

As far as the regular series goes, I originally thought Niska, just 'cause of how downright evil he is. But then, I'd have to settle on Badger. He's a sad li'le kind of a sad li'le hill, you just want to knock his teeth in so much, but he's surrounded by 4 armed guards and is your only meal ticket, so you gotta put up with him. KF

~KF

Lord, I'm walking your way. Let me in, for my feet are sore, my clothes are ragged.
Look in my eyes, Lord, and my sins will play out on them as on a screen. Read them all.
Forgive what you can and send me on my path. I will walk on until you bid me rest.
~Haven Prayer

MAGHAFFAR

Monday, April 3, 2006 9:25 AM

My votes goes for Niska, and here's why.
The scene in "War Stories" where Zoe goes to
pay Niska for Mal and Wash's release, Niska starts to
make Zoe choose only one --
notice how she's all military in dealing with him?
Great in-character stuff for her --
but after she picks Wash, Niska is THINKING
"How can I hurt them and Captain Reynolds?"
So he tells her she's paid too much and is getting a refund...
So he can cut off Mal's ear. Now THAT's evil.

REAVERMAN

Monday, April 3, 2006 10:40 AM

I think the Operative is the best. He's polite, intelligent, compassionate, and completely ruthless. He will not hesitate to kill, but will apologize and try to comfort who he's killing at the same time. He's also great because he's a mirror of Mal. He believes that what he's doing is best for everyone, and will stop at nothing to finish it. He only wants to make the 'verse a better place.

Niska comes in second. He's got that Grandfatherly look, combined with the strange accent, combined with sadistic psychosis. Plus, he gets all philosifical(is that a word?). What's not to love?

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

JONUS

Monday, April 3, 2006 12:37 PM

HANDS OF BLUE! The coolest villains in the show. Too bad they weren't in the film. There just wasn't enough of em.

MACQYVER

Saturday, April 8, 2006 6:38 PM

Please do not judge me by this next sentence: My favorite villain would have to be Simon Tam. Yes, I know he's one of the good guys, but to quote Sir Alec Guinness "Many things that we consider true depond on ourpoint of view". You see, from the aliances perspective Simon and River are outlaws, bandits, vandils, villains, desperado's..., but my point is that acording to the aliance the Tams are villains. But that Doesn't really fit the question.

I would be lying if I said that I didn't have some pretty strong feeling about Early. I don't mean "Boy, I sure wish that he would come back in another episode" feelings, I mean "Boy, I sure wish that Early had died a more humiliating death". You see, when I saw the engine room scene of Objects In Space, where he threatens Kalee, my blood started to boil. The thing is one of my freinds is the spitting image of Kalee. Believe me when I say she could pass for Kalee's younger sister. She has the same hair color and hair style as Kalee, along with a face that is pretty simalar to Kalee's. Plus she has the same cheerful disposision. I can easily see why Simon's got the hots for her. Anyways, I despise Jubile Early as much as I like my freind who might be related to the enginear. If I lived in the 'Verse, I can garantee you that if I ever ran into Early there would probably be a fight and I would probably walk away with a few injuries, but Early would carried to boot hill with a 12-guage three inch magnum round of "OO" buchshot in his gut, with the permission of the Captain of course. Early deffinately gets my vote for the villain I love to hate.

MACQYVER

Saturday, April 8, 2006 7:17 PM

Also, if the Fedral Government is monitoring this site I would to emphasize that my previous post was not a threat of any kind, nor was it directed at anyone whatsoever. I was simply trying to convey how much I dislike a Fictional character on a television series.

this is my one version of the screen play for Rambo First Blood:

(sherif)
(Jon Rambo)
[rambo escapes to woods}
(Jon Rambo)
(deputys)
(Jon Rambo)

This pretty much sums up the shooting, swearring and hand to hand combat in the movie.

LADYKNIGHT

Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:02 AM

...nothing scares me more then Reavers. Nothing. From my first introduction to the show VIA the Reavers...I was horrified of them. While the first time I watched Bushwacked I wasn't too scared because of the whole oh-so-happy-to-finally-have-the-DVD's...but after that...

Now, if we're talking humans, I gotta say, I have to go with Badger. He's at the centerpeice of a chapter of a story a friend of mine and I are working on. (No, it will never get poasted...it's a mass crossover and a HORRABLE example of self insersion at it's most blatiant) not to mention my debates with Cryx about Badger's very EXISTENCE! (don't ask...long story. Actully, short, but bizzare)

HOWEVER...the Oprative is increadable. My favorite quote from the movie commentary is about him...sadly...I can't remember it terrablly clearly off the top of my head.

Gorramit.

KILGORETROUT

Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:22 AM

If we are counting the film it has to be the operative he just rules and is one of the most believable villians ive ever seen in a film his justification for his actions sound like the reasoning of a sane man in control who knows what he does and why he does it "i am a monster" scene is classic i was half convinced by his arguement and plus "this is a good death" scene is probaly the most creepy and gloriying way to die. Plus minor showing off but i know the actor who plays the operative so a he just happened to be a family friend and i didnt know he was in the film and then i saw it and i was pretty darn shocked anyway havent seem him since and i really want to drool on him or something so bit byest but he does rule like no other.
IF tv series alone has to be early crazy but just sane enought to be really crazy (if that makes sense).

"am i a lion" - early

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:18 PM

Early. He's one of the few villains I want to really really really see come back. Yeah, it would be interesting to see a story arc involving a "rehabilitated" YoSaffBrig, and surely Niska, but He's in my mind by far the coolest. The other two are the Hands of Blue and The Operative, but its for sure Early.

If anyone gets nosy...Shoot em.
Shoot em sir?
Politely.

EARTHTHATWASWOLF

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 1:11 AM

I don't know if there actually was a poll at one time that I missed, but I'll give you my opinion anyways hehe

The Reavers get my vote as the best villains. They're truly terrifying. Early would have this slot, I mean he has a choice in what he does, in what he's become. I don't think the Reavers have that much soul or mind left to do so. But Early, he's so horrible I can't bring myself to give him the vote. Somehow in my mind that would be like a reward for him, just can't justify it.

So really I vote Reavers to spite the character Early, who should really get it.

COOKIEJAR

Thursday, April 13, 2006 11:27 AM

This is gorram hard. I think though that I will go with Jubal. He's the one villain that I both hate and love. I love how just strange but really facinating he is. His whole dialog about the room is brilliant. But I also hate him for his threating of Kaylee. I love Kaylee, and seeing that scene in the engine room almost made me cry. You should have seen me, I screaming at the tv (well monitor :-) "NO!!! OH GOD NO!!!!" That moment was so well written and acted it gets me every time. So Jubal wins my vote. Plus how can you forget, "Am I a lion?" Good times.

DEEPGIRL187

Sunday, April 16, 2006 12:51 PM

Jubal Early: The guy who played Early (can't remember his name, sorry) was also in Good vS. Evil and guest starred in an episode of Brimstone. It's funny though, he always seems to appear in series that get cancelled.

YoSaffBridge: How can you not love the woman? And the crew's reactions to her are priceless.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

SCORPIONREGENT

Sunday, April 16, 2006 2:56 PM

This was not a easy choice. I had to reach this deciscion buy imposing criteria on all the villians. Depth and room for backstory, if they don't have this then they become boring, if not now then soon. Personality, if they don't have this then they are boring. Dangerous, if you aren't dangerous you aren't a villian. Complexity of motive, if the motive is obvious then the villian can be predictable. Crazy, crazy is interesting. Sustainability, this one comes from the writer in me, if the character has now story stamina he/ she won't last. This is sort of controlled and affected by all the rest.

My vote goes for Saffron or what ever her name is today. She has depth with a lot of room for developement and background. She has a personality. She's dangerous, but not too dangerous. Her motives aren't entirely clear. Sociopaths are crazy. She is extremely sustainable. My lady pointed out the are a lot of dumb guys in the 'verse and because of that she has a lot of job security.

Jubal Early was interesting, he had a lot of depth and room for developement. He had personality. He was dangerous, possibly too dangerous, if you bring him back he will have to kill one of the crew, it's not plausible that he wouldn't. I'm convinced that though he didn't rape Kaylle and kill anybody it was only because he wanted to have Simon and River captured and secure before he did start doing unspeakable things. His motives are simple and he wants money and a way to hurt people. He is crazy, no doubt. Sustainable, not likely. You either have to kill him or he will kill you. He won't survive another a episode if he comes back.

Niska had personality. He was dangerous. His motives were realtively simple, power and wealth. Torture for Niska was merely a way to incorporate his hobby into his work. He's a sadist that's crazy. Sustainable, sure he can stay, if he has enough wealth he can always hire enough goons to keep himself safe from our BDH's.

Reavers, crazy, dangerous, sustainable, but not deep or complex. If you kill one then there will be more. Just like targets in a shooting gallery. They are more a force to be reckoned with than a villian.

The Operative, he's sane, dangerous, there's personality, he's not very deep or complex though. If he comes back he will have to have gone through some sort of radical change. He said it himself:

"There is nothing more to see."

The Bluehands, well I got the impression that for as dangerous as they are that like the reavers if you kill one there will be another one stamped out at the factory.

I love Badger, but he's not a villian, any more than the tax collector. He is just a unpleasant side of doing business.

Scorpion Regent

BUK

Monday, April 17, 2006 8:01 PM

Niska with his obsession with torturing people for atleast 2 days. Disturbs me.

NYTEGAUNT

Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:22 PM

Niska .. without a doubt .. it is the look of almost childlike glee he adopts while torturing people. Niska much reminds me of some of the great "Bond Villains" but with a much sicker twist somewhere deep inside.

~Nyte~

J6NGO1977

Saturday, April 22, 2006 4:06 AM

Saff. I would go to that special hell for her twice over. I would kiss her and be knocked out and then only to do it all over :) 'Ok you tryed to kill me. However you are so hot would you kiss me again. If you accidently have some sort of knockout drug on your lips, i dont mind. I will forgive you and let you try to kill me later' :)

N0SKILLZ

Saturday, April 22, 2006 4:40 AM

Gotta throw my vote in the hat for Niska, hes one BAMF (bad a$$ mofo)

-------------------------------
RAF Lakenheath
Security Deputy of the Sereni-Tree
"I can't feel my Danger Zone" Jayne Muppet!
http://walkerboh.deviantart.com/

KASTOR

Saturday, April 22, 2006 9:04 PM

oh definately Jubal Early!

I like him so much I hope he didn't die and make another appearance in Season 2.

One day.
One plan.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

VINTERDRAKEN

Monday, April 24, 2006 1:34 AM

Its a close one between Jubal Early and the Reavers.
Earlys seen with Kaylee really creeped me out, But I think the reavers win in the end. When I think back to the first time the reavers appeard and the fear that they inspired in the crew, and in me aswell. Just Brillliant.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

VOLK564

Thursday, April 27, 2006 7:28 AM

Hey all! I'm new here (first post). So if I say something dumb, please don't get any chains. :)

Jubal Early's very intimidating and frightening...but only in the first 35 mins or so of the episode, after that it's just River toying with him...and that makes him a lot less scary than he could have been. VERY well written villan though, hats off to Joss.

I'd have to say Niska, because as someone (I think Fillian) said on the episode commentary for War Stories, he's just such an adorable old guy who you'd expect to build birdhouses as a hobby or something, with his little tie and glasses, but then he goes and tortures people.

Also, Saffron's pretty bitchy. Def. on of those love-to-hate villans.

My two cents.

BOOKSWORD

Thursday, April 27, 2006 11:43 AM

1-Operative

He is dangerous, intelligent and focused. Not only can he go one on one and pretty much play 'slap the prison bitch' with Mal. But he will stop at nothing to acomplish his goal. Its easy for a cold hearted psycho killer to go around killing to show how evil it is. Its more terrifying for a reasonable seeming man willing to kill woman and children just to cover all bases.

Plus a brother with a sword, so loving it.

2- 'I am a Lion.'

A monster who is a man who thinks he is a Lion. Sneaks on board and takes out Mal. Spreads fear and confusion and has interesting insights. The fiend threatens our favourite gal and uses logic on Simon.

Even bested he shrugs his shoulders.

'Here I am.'

Jubal Early, the man in red.

3- Saffron

Smart, cunning and ruthless. Plus she makes the good book a whole lot more interesting. You cant keep a bad girl down.

4- FOX Excutives

Not evil, worse then evil. Dumber then s**t with the common sense of a Lemming and the ablity to rip a beloved show taken to the heart out of your chest.

Leaving a yearning that makes herion withdrawal seem like a head ache.

Maybe should be number one.

SPOOTY

Thursday, April 27, 2006 12:24 PM

Niska without a doubt.

Don't get me wrong, it ain't like the others ain't evil an' all.

Just something about the Gepetto (sp?) appearence and manner yet so dark and morbid.

HURRICANEEZ1

Sunday, May 7, 2006 5:37 PM

Saffron....and its not even close IMO.

KEYOKE

Monday, May 8, 2006 8:14 PM

Its got to be Jubal. Saffron is good, but all she's really got going for her is that she's sexy. Jubal is scary. From the minute he found Kaylee, right till the end, he had me scared for the crew. Somehow I always knew they'd beat Saffron.

----------------
"We feel the pain of a lifetime lost in a thousand days,
Through the fire and the flames we carry on"

LYSCAT

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 8:02 AM

There are so many possibilities to the question, but I think that Badger would be the best answer. He isn't so much a threat by himself, but he would gladly sell out the Serenity crew members to anyone (included in the list or not).

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May the feas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of the person who has ruined your day, and may their arms be too short to scratch~Anonymous

VERASAMUELS

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 8:17 AM

Nastiest - Niska
One not to trust as far as you could throw them - YoSaffBridge and probably Badger
Smoothest - Jubal Early

Vera

Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox

DMON

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:00 PM

First of all... hi all! :) I discovered Firefly after watching Serenity, so I guess that makes me... a "Palecoat"? :D

Anyways, love the series, and my fav is of course Niska. He is ABSOLUTELY brilliant, gotta luv his accent! :D

Regards,
David

YARMUTH925

Thursday, May 11, 2006 10:59 PM

Mrs. Reynolds of course. She was pure evil!

DMON

Friday, May 12, 2006 8:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by yarmuth925:
Mrs. Reynolds of course. She was pure evil!

Well she was but she had this "I know she is evil but she MIGHT also have some feelings inside..." ;)

However, Niska was just plain evil!!!!

AZTECHROME

Friday, May 12, 2006 10:45 AM

Niska is my clear vote.
That is a _very_ bad man. Convincing.

#2 - Id have to say the Operative.
I don't think he's truly evil, but he's by far the most deadly. Much deadlier than Niska

"Where is the difference between work and love? Show me..." (JLG Passion)

YT

Thursday, June 1, 2006 12:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Stubbs:
(even Jayne if youre feeling fruity)

OK, I'll go for it.

Jayne is the best villain because he's the most realized, the most complex. He's the only one we get to see when he isn't being villainous, as well as when he is, and he has an arc (the Operative has only two stages, without an arc betwixt 'em).

Besides, you didn't ask for the worst villain, you asked for the best. That's Jayne.

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

ASORTAFAIRYTALE

Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:25 AM

One of my favorites would probably have to be Badger because he just thinks he's so great when really he's nothing but an insult to the psychotic lowlife community. But then I have always liked the hands of blue guys because they scare the crap outta me, and they are all shrouded in mystery and stuff.

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What's so amazing about really deep thoughts?

NONSTOP

Sunday, March 11, 2007 7:19 AM

Jubal is a great villain. Entertaining to listen to as well.

SHERURCIJ

Monday, March 12, 2007 9:55 AM

Can't believe nobody's said it yet, but Tracey gets my vote for most "villainous", the guy turns out to be a budder****er in every sense of the word.

In the war, we get a glimpse of this when he thinks of himself first, voting to surrender, screaming about his own shellshock from the seeker, his attitude toward Zoe's "preaching"...and it just gets worse, he gets into smuggling organs, *then* screws over his underworld contacts for more money, *then* involves the only people who ever cared for him, in aiding his escape (cash on delivery, mind you, didn't even pay to ship his own death-crate), then shoots Wash, threatens to shoot Mal and Zoe, emotionally blackmails Kaylee and uses her as a hostage...

Sorry, this is the one character who had every gorram chance given to him, and kept throwing it away in the hopes of bettering himself. This is one guy I feel no pity for.

MOBSTER

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sherurcij:
Can't believe nobody's said it yet, but Tracey gets my vote for most "villainous", the guy turns out to be a budder****er in every sense of the word.

Yeah, Tracey is very villainous and would get my vote if Jubal never came about.

FOLLOWMAL

Wednesday, March 14, 2007 7:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:

Kaylee: The c-captrain is right down the hall, the can h-hear you...
Jubel: The captain is locked in his quaters. Same as the rest of the crew. There's no one can help you. Say it.
Kaylee: (crying) There's no one can help me...

Whoa.. DTH.. made me get goosebumps of fear and a tear in my eye just reading it!!

Jubal Early gets my vote...

*still shuddering*

www.goodworkspresents.org

FASTMOVER

Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:31 PM

Jubal Early, no question about it for me. I've basically memorized all of his lines. It's interesting how he's written to be this ruthless, purely evil character, but there's something really humorous in the way he messes with Simon. Those, "Does that seem right to you, "lines are the greatest ever!

A close second would be Niska, and unfortunately the Hands of Blue weren't fully introduced because they look really interesting, like something straight out of the X-files.

[IMG][/IMG]

I am evil, I am sly, and if you get eaten no one will cry.

LAWMAN

Friday, March 16, 2007 2:11 AM

Niska is the best villain. he tortures his own nephew and then talks to his wife about it. he kills mal and then brings him back to torture him some more. when he sends his henchmen to capture mal and wash, he doesn't even recover the medicine container. he's single mindedly evil, and he finds amusement in his depravity. you know that if there was a continuation of the series, we'd see niska again and again. he's just too good of an evil monster to let go.

i'll be in my bunk

TRAVELER

Friday, March 16, 2007 3:13 AM

Badger popped into my head before I even read the list. He insults Mal and still expects Mal to do a job for him. When he said, "I got my hands on a pair", it was pure gold. Niska could not pull that line off. Badger is one of a kind.

I also love how his reaction to River. He was so taken by her that he didn't even realise he was being insulted.

I'm sure if the show had continued Badger would have appeared in several more episodes.

Traveler

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN

Friday, March 16, 2007 3:55 AM

Jubal Early

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

TRAVELER

Friday, March 16, 2007 11:29 PM

Hey Whimsicalnbrainpan:

How's everything in your part of the verse. No Jubol Earlys' lurking about.

Sorry. I just love typing your name.

You may carry on now.

Traveler

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN

Saturday, March 17, 2007 12:17 AM

Hey Traveler everything is pretty shiny. I hope you can say the same.

BTW, I loved Ponette! The little girl was amazing! Thanks for the recommendation.

I think it's great that you love my name so much.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

TRAVELER

Saturday, March 17, 2007 12:26 AM

Hey Whimsicalnbrainpan:

I'm glad you liked the movie. It certainly surprized me when I saw it the first time.

Just came from a thread that asked who was the scariest villain. I said "My sister". I'm bad.

Traveler

BAGHEERA

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 7:28 AM

Yeah, Badger definately goes up here as a villain.

And while I LOVE Early, especially in his role as an anti-River, I'm not sure I'd call him the best villain.

I think Saffron's the best. Not just cuz she's the sexayest. Not just cuz she's shown herself willing and capable of beating Mal, the crew, and anyone else who stands in her way...

but because of all the villains shown in the series, she seemed like the one most capable of actually becoming PART OF THE CREW at a later point in the storyline.

Mal doesnt think she is past redemption, or if he does he believes he can handle her, as shown by his actions in Trash. In my mind, that puts her somewhere between Jayne and the Alliance... and this being Joss's work... well... ya know how he loves to make antiheroes out of villains and all...

HEF

Thursday, March 22, 2007 12:01 AM

Gotta go with Niska. Anyone who cuts your ear off sucks big time

So later with the talking then

SHINYDS

Friday, April 20, 2007 3:11 PM

I've always liked Badger. His mouth is bigger than his brain. He also kind of lives up to his name, causing trouble and just being overall weasley. I like how he seems like such a small built guy, but talks big and confidently, like nothing scares him and the world is his banquet.

"Wherever we want to go, we'll go. That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails. That's what a ship needs but what a ship is... what the Black Pearl really is... is freedom."
--Capt. Jack Sparrow

HIGGINS

Saturday, April 21, 2007 11:44 PM

In the category of Villain You Love to Hate: YoSaffBridg, hands down. You know she's trouble, you KNOW she's going to double cross the crew, you KNOW that no matter what Mal thinks, he's not going to be able to handle her and yet you can't help watching and wondering what she's going to do next. Out of all the villains introduced in Firefly's too short season, YouSaffBridg strikes me as the one that could easily generate (or fit into) a number of storylines, especially since her character can slip easily between comedy and drama. In fact *drumroll here*, I wouldn't mind seeing her as the main villain of the next Serenity movie (some day it will happen). The first movie was a lot of sturm and drang and so (by my reckoning anyhow) the next one needs to be lighter and more fun.

In the category of Fun Reoccurring Character: Badger, definitely. He's comic, but he's also potentially dangerous and I can easily see him returning as a thorn in the side of Mal and Co. in any number of storylines.

***************************************************

"Crime and politics, little girl. The situation is always fluid."

SHINYDS

Sunday, April 22, 2007 12:00 AM

You know, if I wasn't so sure Badger was afraid of Niska, I could almost see him ratting the crew out to him. Of course, the stakes would have to be pretty high to do that. Badger tried to hand them over once before, and then ended up needing them later in the series. On a completely unrelated note, nice use of the phrase "sturm and drang." I never thought I'd hear it outside of that class I took last year.

"Wherever we want to go, we'll go. That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails. That's what a ship needs but what a ship is... what the Black Pearl really is... is freedom."
--Capt. Jack Sparrow

GROTZ

Sunday, April 22, 2007 12:51 AM

Two by two, hands of blue.
And their shiny ship.

Vote for BDM/FF at http://stargate-news.com/
Never kiss'em on the mouth.

RIVERGIRL

Sunday, April 22, 2007 1:13 AM

Niska but then Jubal Early is scary

Also, I can kill you with my brain.

FASTMOVER

Sunday, April 22, 2007 6:35 AM

Jubal Early followed by Niska. They both crack me up. :)

[IMG][/IMG]

I am evil, I am sly, and if you get eaten no one will cry.

RIVER6213

Sunday, April 22, 2007 3:11 PM

I would have to go with Niska. This guy was a complete sadist, and I hate him for what he did too Wash and our Captain.

-River

DONCOAT

Sunday, April 22, 2007 3:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I would have to go with Niska. This guy was a complete sadist, and I hate him for what he did too Wash and our Captain.

Agreed: it's Niska for me too.

But technically, Niska may not be a sadist. It's not certain that he derives sexual gratification from inflicting pain. He seems to use torture more practically and intellectually -- to get revenge, exert control, intimidate his "relationships", and to see how different people react to pain.

Of course, "sadist" has drifted from its original meaning, so using the broader definition I agree he's one.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

MRSHINYVERSE

Thursday, May 3, 2007 2:45 PM

I'd have to go with the Operative (if he's included) or Jubal if he's not. The operative is the anti villian in a way (as Joss intended) and that scares me more than than the obvious bad guy characters. He believes he is doing the right thing and nothing will change his mind (until he finds out what is beliefs lead to).
Jubal is just Jubal - The bad guy I Love and Hate. Can't really explain it but I would liked to have seen more of him if the series continued.

"I'm here for a good time, not a long time" - that's my motto, or it might be if I start having a motto