Why Wash is 100% alive and mostly well.

POSTED BY: pastorbadger
UPDATED: Thursday, November 22, 2007 09:57
VIEWED: 83772
PAGE 2 of 3

I still say it was a dream....THE WHOLE GORRAM MOVIE WAS A DREAM!

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Originally posted by PsychicRiver:
I think Joss was trying to make it pretty certain with the impaling.

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."
"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."

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(Imitating Jayne saying "Butcher Knife!")

Steering column!

Same size, same shape, same velocity, eminently survivable.

"I am not repeating myself, I am not repeating myself! Oh, God, I'm repeating myself." Ryan O'neil, "What's Up, Doc".

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Originally posted by fordaith:
I still say it was a dream....THE WHOLE GORRAM MOVIE WAS A DREAM!

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Not a reason in the ‘verse Joss couldn’t do a passel of prequels. There is precedent…

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Okay, I have to do it... Sorry...

"It's called a LANCE! Hello!"

Okay, now that that's done... I watched the Director's commentary on Serenity, and I heard Joss Whedon explain why Wash had to die. It was the same reason that we thought for a moment Zoe had died, then Simon. We even thought that River might die. Notice that we only THOUGHT they were dead. It is entirely possible that we only THOUGHT Wash was dead. This whole idea of Wash surviving is quite possible.

Also, when Joss Whedon did this movie, he was probably pretty sure there wouldn't be a sequel. So if there is a sequel, it could change everything.

And can we drop the whole Reaver-or-Alliance-ship-on-their-tale thing? It really doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

And while we're quoting other movies, we'll continue with the Princess Bride. "What you got here worth living for?" "True Love."

Besides, I think he has a kid on the way. But that's another thread.

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Originally posted by 11thHour:
Wait... Buffy and Angel aren't believable?! WTH? I like totally bought into them. My disbelief happens to be suspended pretty darn high, and is held with steel cables...

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Hold on. We're operating under different senses of the word 'believable'. The characterization and acting are completely believable, which is why both series are really good; I was referring only to the background setting.

...unless you really do believe there are vampires afoot. Then we'll just have to diverge on this subject.

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Originally posted by 11thHour:
Oh, and River's ESP makes perfect sense to me. Though the terraforming is problematical. The added challenges of planet proximity/distance to the Sun, and all kinds of wacky gravitational variances based on mass aren't even addressed...

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Well, a lot of that is handled simply by the development of artificial gravity. Most of the advances we see in Firefly couldn't've happened without it: terraforming, inertial dampeners, hovercrafts, etc. But, like you, I'll willingly not pry too much into the nitty-gritty of it, 'cause relateability is a lot more important than absolute realism.

'Sides which, if I start asking Joss science questions, I'm gonna make him cry.

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Originally posted by 11thHour:
Firefly/Serenity takes place 500 years from now... things that we would consider impossible now could be quite doable by then. Hey, our technology right now would be inconceivable to someone who lived in the 1500s.

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Well it's a lot more than that... Educated folks even in the 1500s could still find a lot of the things we have right now conceivable, and there are plenty of things firmly within the realm of believability on a 500-year time frame--among them, fusion power and artificial gravity.

The specific example here, though, is with bringing back someone from the dead. We've already redefined what 'death' is in the last century alone. It's not when you stop breathing; it's not when your heart quits; and it's not when your brain quits, even. So I'm sure there'll be a narrowing of the gap between complete death and our standing definition of death within the next few centuries... but for that gap to be 30-minutes or more?

I'm gonna wager that both of us would want the same thing, though... It'd be great if Wash came back in a way that seemed plausible, and not cheap. And while I can't think of a way to make it happen, I wouldn't put it past Joss Whedon or Tim Minear to come up with a way.

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Originally posted by pastorbadger:
Actually, the last exhalation means his trachea is still connected to his lungs. For a major pnemothorax, the air will bubble out through the wound. You're right. Major clue.

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If I wanted medical jargon, I'd talk to a doctor. KF

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~KF

Lord, I'm walking your way. Let me in, for my feet are sore, my clothes are ragged.
Look in my eyes, Lord, and my sins will play out on them as on a screen. Read them all.
Forgive what you can and send me on my path. I will walk on until you bid me rest.
~Haven Prayer

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Originally posted by micjwelch:
Okay, I have to do it... Sorry...

"It's called a LANCE! Hello!"

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Your post was so accurate (i.e. I agreed with you) that this is all I could find to pick on. lol

According to dictionary.com, a lance is "A thrusting weapon with a long wooden shaft and a sharp metal head". Knights carried them into their targets.

This was a projectile. I'm going to go with "flechette". Defined as "A steel missile or dart dropped from an aircraft or fired from an artillery piece."

I do this only because I clearly like to argue, and this thread is running out of steam. Also, it's a big word, and people argue with you more if you use big words. For example: Simon vs. Jayne. Who's more likely to GET an argument? (Even if you do go all...bendy.)

P.S. I will alternately support anyone proposing "fizgig".

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Originally posted by pastorbadger:

I do this only because I clearly like to argue, and this thread is running out of steam. Also, it's a big word, and people argue with you more if you use big words. For example: Simon vs. Jayne. Who's more likely to GET an argument? (Even if you do go all...bendy.)

P.S. I will alternately support anyone proposing "fizgig".

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I have dropped into this thread only because it's a fascinating read and because I have to tell you PastorB... you made me get goose bumps with hope.
So.. I'll not argue, because I don't like to, but since I live with people who do love to argue I have some appreciation for a good arguer and you are definitely a good one.

Oh by the by, the big word thing does work well.

And... cuz I do this sort of thing... welcome and I'm very glad you de-lurked.

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Originally posted by pastorbadger:

(Alliance “to do” list for today: #1 Get the Tams. #2 Don’t get ‘et by reavers. #3 Kill reavers. #4 Did I leave the stove on at home?) ,

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That might have been the Alliance "to do" list but once the Reaver arrived thru the ion cloud the top priority of getting the Tam's droped to #3. As I quote the Operative when the Reavers arrive "target the Reavers, target the Reavers! Target everyone. Somebody fire!" So survival became the number one priority for the Alliance at that time.

As for the ship that EMP'ed Serenity. It's a Reaver ship that used the EMP. I'm 100% sure because I took Serenity to work, watched, and paused it to confirm Reaver ship.

On DVD Chapter 15 1 hour 27 minutes 25 seconds: ship is shown on Serenity's tail. Pausing the DVD shows the ship has red colored markings on right wing.

On DVD Chapter 15 1 hour 27 minutes 33 seconds: Shows ship firing the EMP cannon. Again red colored marking on EMP cannon, right wing, and some other turrent mounted on ship

On DVD Chapter 15 1 hour 27 minutes 41-42 seconds: Again can see red colored markings on the ship.

It's clearly a Reaver piloted ship.

The Reavers landed first and the Alliance followed after they had taken care of the Reavers in space and reorganizing the "to do" list with the Tam's back at #1.

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KLAM, where is it that you work,cause I wanna work there.

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Originally posted by zzetta13:
KLAM, where is it that you work,cause I wanna work there.

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Shhhh!! Never know if someone from my company also visits this board. Let just say I work in the IT field.

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I hate to say it but your point is floored is O so many ways the fact they had Mr universe’s body and Shepard books (If you must know it was on the front of the ship) and the graves were all the same, and the way the feds work they wanted to kill the Tams so more of a shoot first and ask questions later

Bendas

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I got words, I'm sayin', I don't know if you're serious or not, but to base that Shepard Book's corpse is front center on the nose of Serenity due to an "out-take" is fallacious. I think. But I do know that Mal doesn't in fact say to put Book front and center in the actual film, and therefor I doubt that they would desecrate his body in such fashion. Zoe was already horrified enough at the thought of desecrating Serenity, so I doubt even the captain could have made her do it. I also doubt that he would have shot her in that situation. Jayne maybe, but not Zoe. My $.02.

If anyone gets nosy...Shoot em.
Shoot em sir?
Politely.

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First stage of grief is denial.

Emily

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Originally posted by emandbri:
First stage of grief is denial.

Emily

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Yes, it's tragic. You're in complete denial that nobody ever dies in science fiction, Ripley.

(Not as tragic as yer' space dementia, truth be told, but tragic nontheless.)

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Originally posted by klam:

Quote:

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Originally posted by pastorbadger:

(Alliance “to do” list for today: #1 Get the Tams. #2 Don’t get ‘et by reavers. #3 Kill reavers. #4 Did I leave the stove on at home?) ,

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That might have been the Alliance "to do" list but once the Reaver arrived thru the ion cloud the top priority of getting the Tam's droped to #3. As I quote the Operative when the Reavers arrive "target the Reavers, target the Reavers! Target everyone. Somebody fire!" So survival became the number one priority for the Alliance at that time.

As for the ship that EMP'ed Serenity. It's a Reaver ship that used the EMP. I'm 100% sure because I took Serenity to work, watched, and paused it to confirm Reaver ship.

On DVD Chapter 15 1 hour 27 minutes 25 seconds: ship is shown on Serenity's tail. Pausing the DVD shows the ship has red colored markings on right wing.

On DVD Chapter 15 1 hour 27 minutes 33 seconds: Shows ship firing the EMP cannon. Again red colored marking on EMP cannon, right wing, and some other turrent mounted on ship

On DVD Chapter 15 1 hour 27 minutes 41-42 seconds: Again can see red colored markings on the ship.

It's clearly a Reaver piloted ship.

The Reavers landed first and the Alliance followed after they had taken care of the Reavers in space and reorganizing the "to do" list with the Tam's back at #1.

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You may be right about shifting priorities, depending on the dedication of the individual Fed, but

POINT MISSED


Don't matter tweren't a reaver ship tagged Serenity. Even stipulatin' to that and t'other, still waaay too much time betwixt reavers and Alliance gettin' to Serenity.

You could reach a little and say those Fed's what landed were all that's left, and the reavers likewise. But why reach so hard for an explanation for why Wash's dead, when the other is more likely?

Don't cut yerself on that there Occam's razor, partner.

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I was crushed when washh was killed( I am a guy and I do lean towards womenfolk, but he was the crewmember that I identified with the most) I would love to believe wash is alive, so I will thanks for the hope PastorB




p.s. what happend to the fuzzy wuzzies?

I am NUT and I go from to in 10 seconds flat

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Originally posted by Guywhowantsafireflyofhisown:
I was crushed when washh was killed( I am a guy and I do lean towards womenfolk, but he was the crewmember that I identified with the most) I would love to believe wash is alive, so I will thanks for the hope PastorB

p.s. what happend to the fuzzy wuzzies?

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No problem, Guywhowantsafireflyofhisown. Givin' hope's my day job. (Nice that it lets me surf on weekdays, though.)

As for the fuzzy wuzzies, I'll stick with the shepherd's answer: "Oh, I got myself heathens aplenty, right here."

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He's gotta live, he's just gotta.

Nice work. I think you should give it to Joss Whedon for an idea.

Hahaha! Mine is an evil laugh... Now die!

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Originally posted by 11thHour:
Hey, Spike was toasted to ashes and Joss brought him back with a necklace.

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Sorry, but The 'Verse is not the Buffyverse. River's psychic abilities aside, the 'Verse does not work by magic. And while the 'Verse's medical technology is admittedly far advanced over our own, the suggested combination of circumstances necessary to preserve Wash's life are so contrived as to require the use of an Infinite Improbability Drive.

I'm beginning to think that if Joss had shown us Wash being dismembered and eaten by Reavers, some folk would still be trying to think of a way to bring him back.

Sorry people. Rhett ain't comin' back to Scarlett, Ilsa ain't getting off that plane and staying with Rick, and Bambi's mother ain't stumbling out of the forrest going "It was just a flesh wound!"

"Hermanos! The Devil has built a Robot! Andale!" -- Numero Cinco

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Another thought; more than one person here has mentioned "Star Trek III: The Search for Spock" as an example of what to detest/avoid. And I always thought it was a gigantic cheat myself. But...

The writers of that movie at least understood that you can't bring back the dead without proper sacrifice. Spock was revived, but the Enterprise, that wonderful, beautiful ship of dreams, was gone.

At the end of the fourth film they slapped the name on a new ship, and tried to pretend things would be the same. It would have been a great moment to end the series on. Instead they made "Star Trek V", which sucked, "Star Trek VI" which, if it didn't suck, at least inhaled very deeply, and "Star Trek Generations", which ended the participation of the original crew. By that point it was a mercy killing.

Ask yourself this. Would you want Wash to come back if it meant losing Serenity, either the ship or the series?

"This isn't moral high ground. This is the artillery range." -- Captain Kaff Tagon

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Originally posted by RocketJock:
And while the 'Verse's medical technology is admittedly far advanced over our own, the suggested combination of circumstances necessary to preserve Wash's life are so contrived as to require the use of an Infinite Improbability Drive.

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Oh, ye of little faith...and even less research! I've already pointed out quite clearly that Wash's injury is survivable with the medical technology available here in 1967!

You accept receiving a dead guy in the mail who walks and talks two scenes later and don't think it cheapens the series one whit, but refuse to accept what's possible even today?

"contrived combination of circumstances necessary"??? Alliance finds guy. Resuscitates. Looses paperwork. Oh, the tangled web. I'm so confused!

I understand why you’re frightened. Star Trek III and Aliens IV will do that to a guy. A greater tragedy to losing Firefly, would be keeping it at such a cost. But you must have faith. Have faith in Joss. He will not cheapen the franchise, neither will he discard it. “Yeah, though we walk through Serenity Valley we shall fear no Alliance.”

(O.K., I’m going to stop right there, before I go and get in trouble with my Boss. Lol)

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And by the way, does no one find it odd that we're all happy to leave Book strapped up there next to the kid dressed up like the baby Jesus?

Because though it didn't look bad at all, those in the know realize what dark blood from a gut wound means. And we know the best doctor in the system was right there. If Book was going to survive a liver puncture, he'd have done it.

Book's death was likely. We need an E.R. nurse to speak up here. Book's wound looked terrible. Wash's, not so much.

From now on when any person posts yet another lay opinion about the apparent severity of Wash's wound, I'm just gonna muster up my best "Jayne" and shout from off camera "steering column!". lol

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Point of interest? As Serenity begins sneaking through the Reaver fleet toward Miranda, you can see the ship that eventually EMPs it coming to a halt. Watch the lower left corner of the screen for the ship stopping and thrusters darkening. It's identical to the ship that zaps Serenity after breaking atmo.

Sorry, gang - Reaver ship through and through. Rest in peace, Wash.

~
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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" I'm on board with our standard run and hide scenario." Wash

hhhhmmmmm......

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You know, I haven't really wanted to do much fanfic, but you have given me a direction that would go really well. I might just give it a try.

BTW, for anyone who's confused - Book is NOT on the front of Serenity. Nathan Fillion was just feeling weird. If I know Mal, he put that Alliance soldier he shot on the front of the ship. Just my thought.

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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I'd be willing to venture that the Alliance ship Book shot down was at least a 4 man crew and that every one of them became a hood ornament. Why torch your friends when you can play marshmellow with folks you don't know.


Z

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I wonder if there are any animals/bacteria on Haven? If so then what did they do to the corpses to keep them from being eaten?

If anyone gets nosy...Shoot em.
Shoot em sir?
Politely.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Steamer:
Point of interest? As Serenity begins sneaking through the Reaver fleet toward Miranda, you can see the ship that eventually EMPs it coming to a halt. Watch the lower left corner of the screen for the ship stopping and thrusters darkening. It's identical to the ship that zaps Serenity after breaking atmo.

Sorry, gang - Reaver ship through and through. Rest in peace, Wash.

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Point's still not relevant to Wash being alive, but why do science fiction fans always assume that the same model of ship is the same ship? Folks who can't tell one white Honda from another suddenly think they can fleet ID.

"Why are we discussin' what's already been settled?" Mal.

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um...yeah, people seem to be saying (with the exception of a couple, thank you very much to those couple of 'coats who know what's a joke and what's not) that book was strapped on "front and center" as Mal said in the outtakes. THAT, ladies and gentlecoats, was called "nathan's sense of humor." Nathan does that all the time. It's his way (is that better than a plan? ) It was an outtake. I have to admit, it was damn funny, but just an outtake. Not the movie, not what happened.

Now, they might have brought book's body with them to Mr. Universe's planet to bury it when they got the time, but i very highly doubt that. The more likely thing is that they decided to leave him there and thought that they would go back after the fight, if they were still alive, to bury all their friends properly. That would have been a good plan if only Serenity hadn't crashed and had to be rebuilt totally. So, it's very likely that Book's body was not there. I maintain that at least Wash and Book's "gravestones" were memorials, and memorials only. Mr. Universe might have actually been buried because, hey, if there's a body, we might as well give it a grave stone anyway, give the guy a funeral.

And i did find it kinda weird that Mr. Universe was given a place next to Book and Wash. i mean, i think it was just some comic relief to lighten up the mood a bit, (at the theater i was at, everytime i saw it, people laughed during that part), but still, Mr. Universe betrayed them. Maybe they didn't realize it, and he did help a whole lot with getting the word out, but still...aw well, it's happened and it stands. but back to my original point. Book wasn't on the nose of the ship. That didn't actually happen. Was a joke peoples.

keep flyin'
EngineAngel

Wash, you were the best gorram pilot in the Verse. Rest In Peace (and then come back again!!!)

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Ah..yes "I cried like a baby. A hungry, angry baby." Mr.U

I really enjoyed the Mr.universe character. And He had a plan. Yep I do feel that there was something in that genius head.Something that would have shown us more of "The very best violance" and all to help the Firefly crew.

Sadly a sword through the gut would keep the plan from being acted upon.

Mr. Universe too could return at a later date
Forgive me but the folk I see not coming back (at least in the flesh) were those skinny individuals strapped to the front of serenity. They're pretty much gone.

The grouping of the memorials is another clue. If they were gravemarkers then the graves are pretty much one on top the tuther. When my time comes I sure don't want someone with his foot up my exhaust pipe. Even if I am dead

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The only way I see this thing working is if the Alliance folk who took care of Wash were the people who were on Mr. U's planet when he was dying. No Alliance craft landed planetside when Serenity did.



That is a Reaver ship. There is no real doubt about it. Another Reaver ship, the one with the harpoons, is seen through the bridge window just after Wash is shot, with the EMPer floating right beside it, as buddies. Alliance would be disabling it; Reavers work together.

Therefore, I believe the chaps who train their guns on River came from a ship that arrived later, possible if the Operative called them in on his hunt for Mal. They took so long because they needed to fly down, land, get suited up, and try to find where the Operative called them to to be able to find River. They wouldn't really have had time to find Wash at all, unless they were ALREADY THERE, like, for instance, if they were stationed there when Mr. Universe was killed.

Ben

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It is no longer relevant whether or not it was a reaver ship, that no longer matters & I'm with PastorB *puts on his best jayne voice* STEERING COLUMN!!!!!!!!

I am NUT and I go from to in 10 seconds flat.

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Originally posted by barnaby36:
The only way I see this thing working is if the Alliance folk who took care of Wash were the people who were on Mr. U's planet when he was dying. No Alliance craft landed planetside when Serenity did.

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Wow. What tongue am I speaking in?

First and foremost, thank you Guywhowantsafireflyofhisown. People on this planet, in the real world, have lived for HOURS with similar and scarier wounds. But everyone here’s just sure Wash couldn’t. Not even the 20 minutes before brain damage sets in if he’s dead as a post. (No pun intended.)

Next, if your medical degree says Wash had to get help faster than that, then how about this? The operative has already come and gone on that planet. Ain’t a reason in the ‘verse he didn’t leave a unit behind. In fact, you’ve been at the mudder’s milk if you can think otherwise. Every military unit in the real world and yours carries a medic. Heck folks, if we’re going to grasp at the ridiculous in the face of common sense, let’s just look at the hundreds of other scenarios that let Wash live, instead of making up restrictions that force him to die.

And seriously, if you can tell for dead certain that the smoodge (sic) in that frame grab is reaver, more power to ya’. Still don’t matter. (Points for tenacity, though.)

And the worst? You say “No Alliance craft landed planetside when Serenity did.” Just because the camera didn’t follow it, and because you didn’t see it, don’t make it true! The could have landed just outside your 16:9 view of the world, or during the commercial break. They were likely already there. (“Suppose we should we attack those reavers landing?” “You got orders I don’t know about? Shut up and be quiet.”)

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Originally posted by pastorbadger:


Wow. What tongue am I speaking in?

First and foremost, thank you Guywhowantsafireflyofhisown. People on this planet, in the real world, have lived for HOURS with similar and scarier wounds. But everyone here’s just sure Wash couldn’t. Not even the 20 minutes before brain damage sets in if he’s dead as a post. (No pun intended.)

Next, if your medical degree says Wash had to get help faster than that, the how about this? The operative has already come and gone on that planet. Ain’t a reason in the ‘verse he didn’t leave a unit behind. In fact, you’ve been at the mudder’s milk if you can think otherwise. Every military unit in the real world and yours carries a medic. Heck folks, if we’re going to grasp at the ridiculous in the face of common sense, let’s just look at the hundreds of other scenarios that let Wash live, instead of making up restrictions that force him to die.

And seriously, if you can tell for dead certain that the smoodge (sic) in that frame grab is reaver, more power to ya’. Still don’t matter. (Points for tenacity, though.)

And the worst? You say “No Alliance craft landed planetside when Serenity did.” Just because the camera didn’t follow it, and because you didn’t see it, don’t make it true! The could have landed just outside your 16:9 view of the world, or during the commercial break. They were likely already there. (“Suppose we should we attack those reavers landing?” “You got orders I don’t know about? Shut up and be quiet.”)

---

Firstly, I'm not outright disagreeing with you. You have to realize that people at these boards have had their hopes raised and crushed by things like possible resurrection of a TV series. They don't respond well to any claims along those lines now. Saying that Wash might be alive causes a similiar action, at least, from what I'm seeing.

I agree that the big O might have left a group planetside; in fact, that's pretty much the only way I'd agree with you. I really don't think many of the fleet's ships survived the aerial battle, so I don't think many would be on top of the game enough to realize that their target was going to the planet, much less care in the face of impending death-by-Reaver. Also, if there was another ship following Serenity, one so integral to the plot like this, I believe it would have been shown in at least a few frames, trailing both the EMPer and our Firefly.

Seriously, I think your Wash-is-alive theory is the best; I'd like to believe it too. If it were true, though, Joss would be the only person I'd trust to create its story. Hell, he'd do the best job. Ever. EVER!

Ben

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This is EXACTLY what I thought of to keep hope alive when I saw the movie.

Great minds think alike, and since the chances of a sequal being slim to none, (SOB!) in the second series in my own little head, this is what happened and he and Zoe are back together with the BDH, still 'flyin.

This being the same network in my head that Joel never left Cicely, Alaska and Arrested Develpment is still on.

.

'Might have been on the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by DarthVegas:
This is EXACTLY what I thought of to keep hope alive when I saw the movie.

Great minds think alike, and since the chances of a sequal being slim to none, (SOB!) in the second series in my own little head, this is what happened and he and Zoe are back together with the BDH, still 'flyin.

This being the same network in my head that Joel never left Cicely, Alaska and Arrested Develpment is still on.

---

I'd like to swim in that Egyptian river right next to you, and say that the 58th squadron "Wildcards" survived the chig attack, and "Space, Above & Beyond" isn't just another Fox casualty. Oh, and the guys from "The Lone Gunmen" didn't sacrifice themselves in a nerve gas attack. (See a pattern here, FOX?)

Aurguing about whether it's likely Wash survived or not is just a good way to pass the time while waiting for that miracle.

Anyone else want to jump in de Nile with us? Any "Blake's 7" fans, maybe? lol

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[qoute]The memorial thing is wrong too. Sure Book's body might not be there, but we know darn sure Mr. Universe didn't up and leave. At the very least they probably burried his buffy bot if the Reavers somehow ate him. So, there were bodies to be burried. Besides I think they probably did bring Book's body onboard all Tracy style.

---

`````````````````````````````````````````````````
Ok.. First of all .. there were bodies there. No one ate Mr Universe or his wife-bot.. or Mal couldnt have gotten back to the same hallway where everyone was layed up hurtin'. Secondly they did't bring Book's body with em Tracy style.
In the bloopers reel, Mal telling the crew after getting his big damned idea from Operative. The words were,"Zoe, you and Simon get these bodies
together."
"We got time for grave diggin cap'n?"

"Youre gunna rope em together, five or six right across the nose of the ship. Put Book front and center, he's our friend we should honor him"



"Jayne try not to steal all thier $hit. Kaylee?, go find that kid takin a dirtnap with the baby jesus, we need a hood ornament"

I believe that is a close rendition. Anyway Book came along for the ride on the nose of Serenity. Course, the only thing left of the preacher were his skinny bones, but that is beside the matter.

In the Pilot.. the EMP was NOT discussed. It was a magnetic grappel.

In short I would love for my favorite pilot to not be magically delicious and indeed be alive an kickin even with a bite or two out of his leaf on the wind. However it doesn't look good to the matter. Yes for some odd reason it was a reaver ship with an EMP.. who woulda figured.

But then again there are several other incongruancies (sp) in the movie. Like Mal telling Simon that he looks after his own and that didn't include the Doc unless he conjured it does. I only saw 3 or 4 seperate episodes in a single short season where he told the doc "You're on my crew. Why are we still discussing this?"

Jayne made mention of the same thing after his sudden and inevitable betrayal on Ariel.

It was a minor thing, but still not exactly like the series.. I assume several things were going to be different, in the need to tell the whole firefly story in such a short shot. Sucks I know LOL.

[url= http://my.1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=5654925]]
[img][/img]

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Well now the thread has taken a turn.

Simon and River not being part of the crew? Or are they?

Ok lets try a brief and limited review.

Zoe & Wash: he flights the ship she is second in command and an extra gunhand at those times of opportunity.They get paid.

Jayne: the strong arm and 3rd gunhand in their endeavors.Hes on the payroll

Kaylee: Ships engines specialist and mechanic.A paying job.

Inara: She helps with those OFFICIAL hard to get in places. Semi-crew. Payroll-nope

Now as for Shepherd Book, Simon and River Tam. Book in a gesture was made honorary crewmember right before his death(if real) after spending some time away from the ship.Payroll-nope
Simon was in barter with Mal for the sanctuary of his sister and his Dr. services. Theres no money exchanged there. As passengers Book,Simon & River were give ships meals and bunk services. Some of these still continue(exception Serenity bank robbery where Simon asks for Rivers half of the bounty once shes back aboard ship)
So as for crew status for S&R,at the end of the Serenity movie it looked as if it was begining to happen. In the series?

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by Eso:
[qoute]
"Youre gunna rope em together, five or six right across the nose of the ship. Put Book front and center, he's our friend we should honor him"

---

How many times do we have to say this?! It was a freakin' JOKE! Book is NOT on the front of Serenity!

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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"Steering column!"

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Once again, trying to hold my tongue. But here's some info for those of you confused.

There is a deleted scene that has Mal instructing Simon & Zoe to put book front n' center because they should 'honor him" in that way. It was cut because it seemed a little out of place. The blooper with Mal talking about the head ornament and Jayne not stealing all their crap is just that...a scene that screwed up and Nathan carried it on like he usually does.

Finally, to the Wash issue. Since some of you don't believe me and what I've posted in the past, I submit this for your reading pleasure. Direct from the shooting script:

INT. BRIDGE - CONTINUING

There is a moment of quiet.

WASH
I am a leaf on the wind. Watch --

A massive harpoon CRASHES through the windshield and impales him to his chair. It's as thick around as a telephone pole.

Wash has time to open his mouth in surprise before he is dead.

ZOE
WASH!

She moves to him.
-----

Okay, there you go, DEAD. Sorry kid, that's direct from Joss' fingers to the script and then to film.

When in doubt, read the script before the cuts in the film.

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Y'all are forgetting Reavers don't eat dead bodies. Recall in the very beginning of the movie Mal shoots the guy two reavers are holding and they throw the dead man down in disgust. Mal just denied them their meal in that case, so there's no reason for the reavers to chew on Wash or Mr. Universe post mortem.

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by RocketJock:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 11thHour:
Hey, Spike was toasted to ashes and Joss brought him back with a necklace.

---

Sorry, but The 'Verse is not the Buffyverse. River's psychic abilities aside, the 'Verse does not work by magic. And while the 'Verse's medical technology is admittedly far advanced over our own, the suggested combination of circumstances necessary to preserve Wash's life are so contrived as to require the use of an Infinite Improbability Drive.

---

My point was not that some magical method not in keeping with the 'verse would be utilized to reinstate Wash... but rather that if Joss wants to bring back a character, he will find a way.

In the Buffyverse, magic is an acceptable form of resurrection. In the Ff/S 'verse, Joss would use a method that was in keeping with the circumstances/technology of that world.

Quote:

---

I'm beginning to think that if Joss had shown us Wash being dismembered and eaten by Reavers, some folk would still be trying to think of a way to bring him back.

---

Now you're just being silly... heh...

We who are open to the return of Wash are not total moon brains! However, a dismembered and eaten Wash would still have some leftover bits laying around somewhere... cloning with an accelerated growth rate and reinstatement of previously stored memory/personality would fix things up nicely.



11th Hour

________________________________________________

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!" - Hoban Washburne

Firefly/Serenity Guerilla Marketing Posters ~ http://the11thhour.home.att.net
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Quote:

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Originally posted by Kizyr:
Hold on. We're operating under different senses of the word 'believable'. The characterization and acting are completely believable, which is why both series are really good; I was referring only to the background setting.

...unless you really do believe there are vampires afoot. Then we'll just have to diverge on this subject.

---

Well, I used to date a vampire... but that's a subject for a whole nuther thread...

Quote:

---

Well, a lot of that is handled simply by the development of artificial gravity. Most of the advances we see in Firefly couldn't've happened without it: terraforming, inertial dampeners, hovercrafts, etc. But, like you, I'll willingly not pry too much into the nitty-gritty of it, 'cause relateability is a lot more important than absolute realism.

---

Artificial gravity is fine and dandy for ships and such... but applying this to an entire planet or moon? Just seems highly doubtful. The power consumption would be enormous, even superdupergiganimous ("really really big" in Future Talk). Plus, if the mechanism that drives the artificial gravity ever konked out, you'd have a planet wide disaster.

Quote:

---

'Sides which, if I start asking Joss science questions, I'm gonna make him cry.

---

Yeah... it makes me cry when Joss cries. However, Joss laughs when we cry. Does that seem right to you?

Quote:

---

Well it's a lot more than that... Educated folks even in the 1500s could still find a lot of the things we have right now conceivable, and there are plenty of things firmly within the realm of believability on a 500-year time frame--among them, fusion power and artificial gravity.

---

Yeah, how 'bout them two guys in the 1500s who believed in advanced technology! They were cool.

Meanwhile, 99.99999999% of the population was changing the straw on the floor in their house once every year or so, left their excrement in jars outside their homes, and looked at goose entrails to divine the future...

But you're right. Right now we can conceive of advanced technology that doesn't exist... but there's all kinds of technology that hasn't even occurred to us yet. Those advances will be based on work and discoveries that will be surprising... perhaps even the result of "happy accidents".

Though it's the unhappy accidents I'm most concerned with...

Quote:

---

The specific example here, though, is with bringing back someone from the dead. We've already redefined what 'death' is in the last century alone. It's not when you stop breathing; it's not when your heart quits; and it's not when your brain quits, even. So I'm sure there'll be a narrowing of the gap between complete death and our standing definition of death within the next few centuries... but for that gap to be 30-minutes or more?

---

I thought death happened when you no longer dug Rock 'n Roll?

Anyhoo, it is true that presently "death" has more to do with the amount of time the brain is denied physical support. But who knows? In the future a way could be developed that can revive brain cells. The Alliance obviously has been doing all kinds of experiments with brains... so all sorts of advances could have been made with brain sciences.

Quote:

---

I'm gonna wager that both of us would want the same thing, though... It'd be great if Wash came back in a way that seemed plausible, and not cheap. And while I can't think of a way to make it happen, I wouldn't put it past Joss Whedon or Tim Minear to come up with a way.

---

Totally agree with you on that there point pardner.

It all comes down to Joss and Tim being great storytellers. The plausibility of bringing back Wash lies in the fact that, if done right, it would hold fascinating story possibilities.

We all missed out on so many great stories involving Wash because of Firefly's early demise. Part of the vindication of getting the 'verse back is to reclaim what was lost. I STILL want those stories.

Quote:

---

Now if sometime down the line Joss or Tim wanna k

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GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN

Thursday, April 27, 2006 7:13 PM

Quote:

---

... how about something intelligent

---

are you trying to be an asshole?

'cause that's how you're comin' off

One Day.
One Mission
One Army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, We Aim To Misbehave.
www.SerenityJune23rd.com

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Can't believe this thread is still kicking. This reminds me of Clan Denial - an online club/group of Highlander fans who were so tramatized by the death of a particular character that they refused to accept said death (and he had his head cut off, which is even slightly more thoroughly fatal than a telephone post through the heart - but only slightly), and pretty much ignore the storyline from that point on.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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after reading the visual companion i can safely clear a few things up.


it's a reaver ship that disables serenity.

wash is dead. he got a bloody thelephone pole spike directly in the chest.

as for what the alliance were up to (not saving wash) i think they where busy having some sort of space battle.

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by mikeC:
after reading the visual companion i can safely clear a few things up.


it's a reaver ship that disables serenity.

wash is dead. he got a bloody thelephone pole spike directly in the chest.

as for what the alliance were up to (not saving wash) i think they where busy having some sort of space battle.

---

Some soprta space battle. Roflamo Thats putting it mildly.



If you play Nationstates.net check out the region Firefly.

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Quote:

---

wash is dead. he got a bloody thelephone pole spike directly in the chest.

---

lets just say that if Joss wants to bring back wash I am sure he will find a way to do it

One Day.
One Mission
One Army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, We Aim To Misbehave.
www.SerenityJune23rd.com

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You know, I think you got that right. It doesn't matter what we think. ((Alright not terribly much, but a little.)) It's Joss' Baby, and it's in his hands. And what glorious hands they are.

And to whomever made the comment on Dusters and Winchesters as Coutoure, well, I got me a bent scope, so lets find a place within 500 yards.

If anyone gets nosy...Shoot em.
Shoot em sir?
Politely.

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Sure do want to belive this, but im pretty sure they actually buried wash, Yes they had cairns, but there is a cairn for Mr.Universe and they buried his remains.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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NOt bad, 1 detail thouhg, it was a Reaver ship that Shot Sernity down. Considering the wound, I think it would be plausable for Walsh to indup in a hospital somewhere. There were a lot of Alliance ships and it did take them some time to show up after River finished dealing with her issues (on the reavers). It only makes sense that a team was sent to check out Serenity while the bulk homed in on their boss.

Krahazik Dragon
3D Graphics Design and Artwork
krahazik.deviantart.com

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I always assumed that the reason why the Alliance took their gorram time was because they first had to shoot down the reaver fleet, then land and kill all the reavers trying to eat them, and then they came storming into the facility.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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wound? wound? you vall getting a frigging spike through the chest a wound?

it killed on impact.

and yes joss has said he may bring back both book and wash if he can find a way that doesn't contradict thier deaths.

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Well one way to bring them "back" and not contradict their deaths were to shoot the "missing" episodes in the first season, ie the shows between Objects in Space and BDM

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by mikeC:
wound? wound? you vall getting a frigging spike through the chest a wound?

it killed on impact.

and yes joss has said he may bring back both book and wash if he can find a way that doesn't contradict thier deaths.

---

Steering Column!

(Everybody, please read the entire thread before you post. Otherwise, opinions are like butts: everyones got one and they all stink.)

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I too am kind of surprised at how long this thread has lasted, and at how upset people are getting over it. Again, Pastorbadger is only saying that it is possible to survive such a thing.

I watched the movie again with this in mind, and I wanted to clarify a few things. The ship that shot the spike into Serenity is not the same ship that took them down in the first place. And it was obviously a reaver ship. There was more than one of them too. You only see them for a split second. Yes, the spike was as big around as a telephone pole, but only at it's largest diameter. It's a spike. The largest size to actually hit Wash looked like about three inches (about the size of a steering column).

A thought on that too - A steering column is a blunt object that would tear through your chest. A spike would push things out of the way. So in reality the spike that hit Wash would be easier to survive than a steering column through the chest. And it hit his shoulder. Sure, it probably hit some major veins, but it's survivable with the right expertise.

Now, for those of you getting so upset about all this - Pastorbadger only said it's plausible. He never said that's what Joss Whedon should do.

And by the way, kudos to Pastorbadger for thinking this all the way through. This is problem solving and creative thinking at it's finest. Keep up the good work.

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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yup he did a good job

One Day.
One Mission
One Army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, We Aim To Misbehave.
www.SerenityJune23rd.com

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I vote for C.

Thank you for giving me hope!



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I vote F) If Wash is brought back in a sequel, I will not only not watch it, but I will destroy every other piece of Firefly merchandise I own. Goddamnit, this is supposed to be a show with meaning and integrity, not where they just make up implausible shit.

Oh yes, you all are reminding me of the people who believe Elvis is alive.

"MY NAME IS JAYNE, ya damn moonbrain! Now yer gonna DIE!!"

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by evilphoenix:
I vote F) If Wash is brought back in a sequel, I will not only not watch it, but I will destroy every other piece of Firefly merchandise I own. Goddamnit, this is supposed to be a show with meaning and integrity, not where they just make up implausible shit.

Oh yes, you all are reminding me of the people who believe Elvis is alive.

"MY NAME IS JAYNE, ya damn moonbrain! Now yer gonna DIE!!"

---

Well, I see someone's had their prescription of cranky pills recently refilled.

You should know that shit, as you so eloquently put it, is never implausable. If fact, it's quite inevitable.

And living on a spaceship is so emanently plausable, after all.

Besides, Elvis is sharing a condo in Oregon with Salmund Rushdi & Bigfoot. Sadly, neither has a taste for banana & peanut butter sandwitches.

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Quote:

---

LadyKnight wrote:
Was reading the thread...and about halfway through...something occured to me...

Shortly after everybody left, feds vs. Reavers on Serenity. Somebody (fed) shot a coolant pipe somewhere (engene room). Freezing white stuff came out, Froze the whole ship over, including Wash...who, while dead, had his nural functions frozen in the four minutes before they would have stopped.

---

...OMG, are you serious? i so have to check that part out agan because that could seriously work and add to the whole plausibility of bringing wash back. (i vote C btw) that is so shiny. so it was serenity's coolant pipe, or an allience ships's coolant pipe? i need specifics if i'm gonna find this cause i'm so out of it when looking for something like this lol

Quote:

---

(For the record, I'm getting the majority of this from the Artemis Fowl books...Dear God, I just compared Wash to Butler)

---

LOL!!! omg, you made me seriously laugh out loud when i saw this. *virtual high five*, And if you take away the hawaii shirt, the dinosaurs, the not being a hulking giant who loves guns (that would be jayne ) and...you know...the pilot thing on a spaceship 500 years in the future...maybe wash COULD be compared to Butler lol

keep flyin'.
EngineAngel

PS: for all those who are ragging on PB and totally discounting all the facts, please look at them all (i know i know, SUCH a long thread). it is totally within your rights to think that wash isn't alive still. hell, he might not be. i don't want to think that he's not, but it's possible he's soared for the last time. HOWEVER, it is still plausible, given all the reasons in this thread, that he very much could be alive. It just irks me that some people don't even pay attention to what other people say earlier in the thread or what they say to counter some points (even a couple of posts before theirs), especailly when they haven't looked at all the facts anyways and are just bringing up old things again, making the thread even longer and causing annoyance for everybody. just saying. you should look at all sides of a matter and be informed before you discount it. (and yes, i KNOW i'm obssessed with a verse that ain't real (it's what i tell my psychiatrist each week ), and maybe i'm taking everything a tad too seriously, but really guys, i have no life hee hee)

..... and....you mean....Elvis ISN'T alive?? oh man! you just totally turned my whole world upside down!!

Wash, you were the best gorram pilot in the Verse. Rest in peace...(and then come back again!!)

One day.
One mission.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

http://serenityjune23rd.com/

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(sorry about the english, it's not my main lenguage)

1) I do believe wash is dead, we'll still have to see tho, with joss you never know.

2)About the resucitation thingy. I've read lots of stuff about "after a few mins his brain would be dead"etc etc.
-You can easily scoop and replace any internal organ with firefly's medicine (as we saw in the message)
-Alliance can play with ppl brain to a level of altering its capabilities (as they did with river)

Problem resucitating someone nowadays, is that once the brain loses oxygen etc, cells start to die, so after not many minutes you get brain damage, and eventualy total brain death. But the brain is still there, the brain cells are still there, substances, etc. Where am i going with this?, if you could (asumming this is sci-fi, in star trek for example this would be no biggy) work with neural patchs as easy as we fix a broken bone nowadays, they could just fix a brain which has been "dead" for much longer, even replacing damaged neurones for cloned copies would be "possible".

In the end, it's sci-fi, alliance has bad ass technology, and if joss wants to throw Wash into a bacta tank and resucitate him he will just do it. I really doubt it tho, unless joss pulls out of his sleeve any good reason for the alliance to grab and save him secretly.

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by KellyofLuthien:
when even his Captain and his own wife had already decided he was dead.

---

Important point that.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by KellyofLuthien:
Also, Joss is not fond of cliches

---

*cough* Book's final words *cough*

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Storymark:
And those series all involved ressurrection of some form, aliens and supernatural powers to varying degrees. All things which Joss has sworn off from the 'verse.

---

*cough* River *cough*

Off to find some syrup, brb.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Leebo:
Y'all are forgetting Reavers don't eat dead bodies. Recall in the very beginning of the movie Mal shoots the guy two reavers are holding and they throw the dead man down in disgust. Mal just denied them their meal in that case, so there's no reason for the reavers to chew on Wash or Mr. Universe post mortem.

---

Also, all those dead folk on Miranda not eaten because the reavers want their Soylent Green to be spry. That said, when the going gets hungry I'm guessing they'll resort to dead meat.


Serenity 2

      Wash
 Tada!

      Flans
 Telephone pole!

      Wash
 'tis but a scratch, it was just a flesh wound!

Wash lasered into tiny bits (to be resurrected on the 3rd movie).
--
I am Jack's meds kickin' in.

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Forgive me if this has come up before. I've tried to read all of the thread, but it's too gorram long - I may have missed a post or two. Anyway, my personal views on this topic aside, here's a quote that should not be ignored:

"... When you have an ensemble, you think about what people are going to take away with them at the end of the movie, and you don't think about the second movie until you've made the first one. And that's just a very strict rule with me. By the way, there's a strong possibility that everybody would return for a sequel. How is that possible? Not my usual way - there are no amulets to be had for love or money. But there's every chance you could see these characters again. ..." (Joss Whedon in: Serenity - the Official Visual Companion, p. 36)

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My theory on why Wash is alive

Wash appeared to die

but look at the word 'Wash'

An anagram of 'Wash' is 'Shaw'

'Shaw' as in 'George Bernard Shaw' the Irish Playwright.

G.B. Shaws plays connection :
G.B Shaws' play 'Arms and the Man' is set during the 1885 Serbo-Bulgarian War. A young woman who is engaged to a war hero she idolises (Zoes dedication to Mal???)Then a Serbian soldier comes to her room and begs her to hide him. She doesnot think much of him, espcially because he carries chocolate not guns or ammo. She thinks him a acoward (Zoes first impression of Wash ??)
Throughout the play she realised that he soldier is noble and renounces her engagement and now loves the soldier. (Zoe and Wash???)

And the big connection -
Another of G.B Shaws plays - 'The Devil's Disciple' tells the tale of an American hero during the Revolutionary War. In the end the hero is about to be hanged but is saved at the last minute. Also the Americans rejoice and the British leave knowing they cannot win.
(Wash about to die but doenst somehow and the Alliance go away at the end .... ?)

Coincidence? You decide ....

Sorry I was bored

One day.
One mission.
One army of Browncoats.
On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.
http://serenityjune23rd.com/

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allrighty then

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

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Coupla things I would like to point out... yes the Revers in Serenity (the pilot, not the movie) had an EMP weapon... well, not really a weapon so much as an Electro Magnetic Grapple... NOT an EMP gun... second, Book is definatly dead... third, Revers WOULD NOT have a pretty silver n' blue ship, it wouldda been all scared, pitted and blackend jagged metal with loverly crimson red BLOOD all over it, if not a few dozen thin hood ornament type dudes on it... and the ship wouldda also been venting black smoke for it's not operating with core contanment, and FINAL... your theory kicks ASS!!! welcome to the crew bud... *hands over a brow duster*

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Did anyone mention that Joss brought back Colossus from a very permanent death in Astonishing X-Men? Sure, it's a Marvel Comic, but he's obviously not above it.

(Sorry, didn't have time to read all the posts)

The only way I could see this working emotionally would be if Wash's resurrection actually made things worse for the crew. Like he sold out Simon and River in exchange for his continued life. There is no way anyone would buy it if it wasn't important to the story.

I want to believe...

sprunking!

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