Jayne and Kaylee

POSTED BY: Leiasky
UPDATED: Sunday, April 23, 2006 18:15
VIEWED: 32391
PAGE 1 of 1

LEIASKY

Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:17 PM

Ok, I've tried to ask this before and people get all defensive and think I'm trying to start a fight, but I would really like to know.

It's no secret I definitely prefer cannon pairings, but, the curiosity is just killing me, hence the reason I'm asking this question.

Is there something I missed in the episodes or the movie that gives anyone any indication that Kaylee and Jayne would be a couple? If there is, someone please point it out to me?

Or is it just something fans would like to see?

Nothing wrong with it, as everyone has their interests, I'm just curious.

And, for gods sakes, I'm not trying to start some kind of war here so please keep responses civil. Besides, point me to something that indicates there is a possibility, maybe ya can turn my opinion :)

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:52 PM

Hey Leiasky!

I'm not strongly opinionated on this, since Mal/Inara is my fave, but I do like Jaylee just because I think there is depth in Jayne that only a really pure, happy soul like Kaylee could get to. And I do see her being attracted to him because once she finds the softer, squishier side of him he would be absolutely devoted to her.

For me, I just like Jayne as a character more than Simon, and I want to see him developed romantically. But there's no one else who partners him well.

Maybe River could have, eventually, in like the 6th or 7th season, when she got much older. Over the long haul, she'd sneak in under his defenses. But since we don't get all those seasons, Kaylee is the best option.

Don't get me wrong, I got nothing against S/K!!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

NDRAGE85

Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:58 PM

while i don't believe there was anything solid there, there was definately potential. but it's all the way you interpret it. Jayne could have only cared for Kaylee as a little sister type, but those feeling could have also easily evolved. You can tell in the series that he is protective of her. and they do tease around with each other. Like in Bushwhacked where they're playing ball at the beginning and Jayne jokes to Kaylee saying, "Little Kaylee is always one man short." and then Kaylee playfully punches him. There are all sorts of little things here and there. Nothing that ever really once shows that the two have sexual feelings for each other, but they definately could have turned to that in my opinion. and like the other poster said, I think Kaylee could have tapped into Jayne's sweet side, and once she did that, Jayne would probably be real sweet to her and protective of her. a bit of a brute at times, but really always having good intentions towards her in mind.

AZHEA

Thursday, March 23, 2006 9:05 PM

There is sign of "other than sisterly" feelings in the BDM... the part where Kaylee is complanin' that there hadn't been anything betwixt her nethers what were't run on batteries. Mal says, "Oh god. I can't know that!" Jayne snickers and says, "I could stand to hear a little more."

He's being a pig, but interest is interest.

*************************************************
I look out for me and mine... that don't include you 'less I conjure it does.

AGIRLYMAN

Thursday, March 23, 2006 9:20 PM

I don't see it, but Kaylee and River, that is so much better, on so many different lvls.

Keep it in the family!

AM I NOT MERCIFUL?!?!?!?

Tee Hee

GOR

Thursday, March 23, 2006 9:24 PM

The most significant thing I've seen is in Serenity (the TV show episode not the BDM). When Kaylee is shot Jayne is ready to rip that fed's head off and almost gets into it with Book over it.

Later when Simon is operating on her you see a shot of Jayne looking into the infirmary looking extremely concerned, rocking back and forth.

I think he cares quite a bit about her.

"These are stone killers, little man. They ain't cuddly like me."

PERSEPHONE736

Thursday, March 23, 2006 9:29 PM

Yeah, and I think in the commentary Joss says something about him having a little crush on Kaylee. I'm not certain but I think that's what he says.

DEEPGIRL187

Friday, March 24, 2006 12:54 AM

I'm not the biggest fan of Jaylees, but I do like the idea of unlikely pairings. The only reason I don't see Jayne and Kaylee working is that they seem too much like the cute little sister/annoying older brother. However, there are some scenes in the series and BDM that might point to a Jaylee pairing, the most obvious being when Kaylee is referring to her nethers in the Maidenhead.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

BEAST

Friday, March 24, 2006 3:26 AM

There is definitely emotion between them... His concern for her is more obvious than he would admit. It's more of a little sister/big brother thing, though I think.

CANTONHEROINE

Friday, March 24, 2006 3:56 AM

The whole Jaylee premise stems primarily from Joss's commentary on the Pilot eps - that Jayne has a crush on Kaylee. This is combined with the scene at the dining table, where he is jealous of her obvious attraction to Simon (and blurts out the infamous 'gynaecologist' remark), and the scene of him crouched by the window watching her operation. He was very concerned about her, and REALLY wanted Dobson dead (notice his brooding during Simon's speech about River, and his grin when Mal finally does shoot the Fed).

Many Jaylee fans are of the belief that had the show continued to air, Joss would have expanded on that crush and used it to play up a Kaylee/Simon/Jayne triangle. He's known for doing things like that on his other shows, especially as a catalyst for further tension. For example, Jayne's betrayal of the Tams at Ariel could be used against him by Simon - and that's only one possible storyline.

I'm a definite Jaylee fan, and I treat it as a canon pairing.

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JACQUI

Friday, March 24, 2006 4:21 AM

It's no secret that I'm a Jaylee shipper.

Personally, I think the Jayne/Kaylee relationship would work on many levels and for many reasons.

Firstly, they're very much alike in background, beliefs, attitudes, humour and everything that counts. And yes, it does count. You may be able to ignore or build over differences in the beginning of a relationship, but those things will eat at you over time.

Secondly, there is genuine affection between them. Both of them. It's obvious. They joke around a lot, teasing each other in ways that only people comfortable with each other can do.

Whenever Kaylee is hurt, threatened, or in danger, Jayne is ready to kill. In "Serenity (the pilot)", when Kaylee is shot, Jayne goes into overdrive, ready to kill Dobson without blinking. Then he crouches by the infirmary window and watches, biting his nails, without moving until he knows Kaylee is safe. I doubt he would have done that for anyone else. And later, when the Reaver ship is chasing them, Jayne carries her with such care and gentleness, overriding his own fears of the monsters.

In "Shindig" it is the sight of Kaylee surrounded by guns that stops Jayne rising up against Badger. (And Zoe, it has to be noted, knows this).

In "The Message", when Tracey grabs Kaylee, Jayne is ready with a gun again. Yes, Zoe and Mal were there, too, I realise this, but it is Kaylee that he is there for, he moves to her side and she's the one he stands in front of as soon as she gets free of Tracey.

It's not just Jayne, either.

Whenever Jayne is hurt, it is Kaylee that goes to him, Kaylee that makes sure he's okay. In "The Train Job", it's Kaylee that stands next to him while Simon operates, Kaylee that keeps reassuring him and touching him.

In "Ariel", Kaylee goes to check on Jayne's injuries before she checks on River. That's noteworthy.

They work together, too, quite often and quite easily. In "Bushwhacked" she climbs on his shoulders and they score a goal. This isn't something that happened on the spur of the moment. That's a move that had to be practiced, they had to have done that before. It shows how well they work together. Same as in "Trash", when they're fixing the compactor thing.

They're much more comfortable just sitting and talking with each other, as seen in "Shindig" when they're playing cards, than Simon and Kaylee ever are.

And, yes, this is where I bring Simon into it. I love Simon, I do, but Kaylee never will be first in his life. It's a simple fact, a true one, and one that nobody blames him for. He has to look after River and that's a very noble thing. But Kaylee deserves better than to be always second.

To be always dismissed for someone else.

There's also the class thing. Simon is core and he will never be able to forget that. He doesn't even know he's doing it when he talks down to Kaylee, when he belittles everything she takes pleasure in. She hides it well, but she HURTS when he does that. Kaylee will never feel good enough for Simon, even if Simon doesn't ever consciously understand that. That alone will slowly poison Kaylee from the inside out.

Jayne, on the otherhand, he may be a simple man, but he is fiercely protective of the things he loves. He loves his Ma, the way he proudly wore that ugly knitted hat with pride clearly showed that.

If he and Kaylee ever got in a relationship, he would give her EVERYTHING.

He has serious self esteem issues, with how he sees himself and how he believes everyone else sees him, so he will always believe Kaylee is TOO GOOD for him and he will always treat her as someone precious. And Kaylee would flourish under that.

I don't think that either of them see how well they work together, not in the series. Kaylee, for all that she knows, is still very young and she's caught up in Simon, she sees him as someone 'pretty' and 'swai' and so very shiny that she doesn't acknowledge all his faults. She sees something she wants and doesn't always see something she needs.

Jayne is still too insecure to really acknowledge what he wants a

CANTONHEROINE

Friday, March 24, 2006 4:45 AM

I thought I'd summed it up, but Jacqui just does it so much better. So, yeah. What she said - that's what I meant.

There's tons of little moments that add up. Watch for 'em. We're not making this stuff up, promise.

----------

WYOBAR

Friday, March 24, 2006 5:02 AM

And that is why I love your writing-good job.

"dong ma"

RAVENHAIR

Friday, March 24, 2006 1:11 PM

I was just waiting for Jacqui to post so I could say "yeah, what she said."

Before I started reading fanfic (and I'm a Jaylee shipper almost exclusively) I didn't see Jayne and Kaylee together at all. It always seemed like brother/sister to me. Sometimes Jayne is just plain nasty to her (aside from the gynecologist remark - I didn't notice until the umpteenth viewing of the Train Job that he tells her to 'shut it' just before he 'goes crazy and falls asleep'. I hated the tone in his voice. For her part, I don't think Kaylee even flinched, but I never liked that he would talk to her like that.)

Anyway, since enjoying all the Jaylee fics out there I watch the DVD and movie with Jaylee in mind and while I still have a hard time seeing it sometimes, I agree that if the series had continued it would have been a possible plot thread.

I can't get enough of the writing. The Jaylee writers out there are fantastic, even if you don't get it. They write so well and weave wonderful stories about my two favorite characters!

ISAACSHEPHERD

Friday, March 24, 2006 2:37 PM

I think they'd make an interesting couple considering the contrast between the two. The only unrealistic side is that Jayne is quite a bit older than Kaylee which would make it kinda strange to see them as a couple. But it does seem like they may have a little sister/ big brother kind of relationship in a way. At least when Kaylee was shot he seemed concerned. I think that Jayne likes her and thinks she's attractive but I don't think he's willing to go further than joking. Although I could be wrong.
IS

The Bible's a bit fuzzy on the subject of kneecaps.

JYNNANTONNYX

Friday, March 24, 2006 2:44 PM

Well, I'm gonna say it straight up: I'm a Rayne shipper. There.

I definately see the argument for Jayne/Kaylee though, there's piles of evidence to support that Jayne has a crush on Kaylee - along with Joss admitting it.

I found it really interesting though that Adam Baldwin actually sees Inara as the perfect girl for Jayne. She's beautiful, exotic etc. He mentioned in an interview that he sees Jayne and Kaylee's relationship to be purely brother and sister and he always tried to play it that way - and play that he was attracted to Inara. This is of course the actors point of view - and if I remember the interview right, Adam said that Joss didn't like the idea :)

In the unfilmed script - forgotten what it's called - we definately see that Jayne has a soft spot for Kaylee ("bastards singed my turtle" - best quote EVER). But then I was seeing some kinda sparks between Simon and Inara. Of course then you get the Jayne likes Kaylee, Kaylee likes Simon, Simon likes Inara, Inara likes Mal ... but this theory gets blown out of the water with the movie :)

Anyway, back to Rayne. Joss likes his couples to be dark and twisted IMO and could you get more twisted than that couple :D There are some incredible fics out there about these two!

--
"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think."

WEICHI

Friday, March 24, 2006 3:34 PM

Well, I was never much enamored of the whole Jaylee thing, but these posts make some interesting arguments. Certainly the moment when Jayne watches while she is in sickbay is quite moving.

I still think much of the "evidence" can be explained away by his boorishness, brotherly fondness and a us - them thing, not jealousy - thinking she is not in Simon's social circle and not believing Simon is one of the crew.

I do disagree with one part of Jacqui's otherwise logical and sound post - and that is the statement that they share beliefs and attitudes. Kaylee sees the good in everything, this is central to her character, on the other hand, Jayne does not share this view, particulary about people.

I guess folks are looking for something squishy deep inside of him that paints toenails and haltingly reads letters from mom. And that is, certainly, hinted at, but to say they share beliefs and attitudes seems, to me, a stretch.

See how I'm not punching him, I think I've grown!

REAVERMAN

Friday, March 24, 2006 6:24 PM

I dont know, it might work... Then again, maybe not. Jayne is bound to have some intimacy issues 'cause he's always expectin' to be killed on the job. Then there's his whole "never kiss 'em on the mouth" thing (hi-larious, but maybe a symptom of his issues?). I think he and Mal have got the same attitude about it: that its better to not love at all then to have loved and lost. Just my thoughts on the matter.

"We're gonna explode? I don' wanna explode!"

SINGATE

Friday, March 24, 2006 7:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jacqui:
Whenever Jayne is hurt, it is Kaylee that goes to him, Kaylee that makes sure he's okay.

In the BDM after the reavers chase the mule back into the cargo bay Jayne is sitting on the steps still hurting from that harpoon which impaled his leg. Instead of tending to him Kaylee pushes him aside to see if Simon is all right.

Of course followed by the great Mal line, "Is he alright?!"

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

BURKESONGS

Friday, March 24, 2006 7:26 PM

Aren't we forgetting some of the recurring characters? I'm thinking Saffron myself... Saffron & Jayne. Hmmm... It'd be just the kind of weird pairing that Joss is good at.

I mean, look at Buffy & Spike, or Xander & Faith on Buffy, or Fred and, well, EVERYBODY on Angel...

Joss is fond of redeeming 'evil' characters and making them one of the good guys (Spike being the most blatant turn-around). Saffron could be Miss Right for Jayne... or more likely Miss 'Right Now' (heh-heh)...

Just an odd take on the Jayne lovelife subject...

"I am a leaf on the wind..."

MAL4PREZ

Friday, March 24, 2006 7:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Burkesongs:
Aren't we forgetting some of the recurring characters? I'm thinking Saffron myself... Saffron & Jayne. Hmmm... It'd be just the kind of weird pairing that Joss is good at.

I mean, look at Buffy & Spike, or Xander & Faith on Buffy, or Fred and, well, EVERYBODY on Angel...

Joss is fond of redeeming 'evil' characters and making them one of the good guys (Spike being the most blatant turn-around). Saffron could be Miss Right for Jayne... or more likely Miss 'Right Now' (heh-heh)...

Just an odd take on the Jayne lovelife subject...

"I am a leaf on the wind..."

Hmmm, very interesting. There wasn't much Jayne/Saffron interplay in the series, but I could totally see it happening eventually...

good one!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

LEIASKY

Friday, March 24, 2006 10:46 PM

Very interesting reading everyone's comments! Thanks for taking the time. I suppose I could post about how I see Jayne, as it is quite a contrast from how the jaylee shippers see him.

I'll refrain from commenting about Simon, because I don't want this to become a 'whose better' thread.

I just don't see anything but a brother/sister type relationship between Jayne and Kaylee. The 'wishes you was a gynecologist' comment strikes me more as something an older brother would say to a little sister to rile her up. Not as jealousy that she's so interested in someone new.

Mal and Jayne seem to me to exhibit the same attitude toward Kaylee. Protective because she could be easily taken advantage of. She's young, she's innocent and not 'worldly' like they are.

Someone mentioned the basketball thing and the familiarity and trust in climbing up on Jayne's shoulders. I see that just as two friends/siblings playing a game.

>In "Ariel", Kaylee goes to check on Jayne's injuries before she checks on River. That's noteworthy.

Wonder how Kaylee would feel when/if she learned Jayne turned Simon and River in.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

WHOME

Friday, March 24, 2006 10:55 PM

Oh, Jayne's definitely got a wee bit of a crush on Kaylee, but Kaylee does not have a wee bit of a crush on Jayne.

LEIGHKOHL

Saturday, March 25, 2006 12:13 AM

While I like Jayne, I think he is a wonderful comic foil that has deeper emotions than he lets on, I just don't see the Jaylee connection. Though it was admitted that Jayne may have a little crush on Kaylee, there was no part in the series that I saw as it being recipricated by Kaylee. They definitely had a brother/sister relationship, and maybe Jayne felt a little more, but not all crushes come to fruition. Not only that, I think Kaylee would be very upset with Jayne if she did find out about him turning in River and Simon on Ariel. Not that she doesn't have a forgiving heart, but it could cloud her opinion of Jayne just a bit. Kaylee is nothing if not fiercely loyal. There's also something of an age difference between them, about twenty years or so. Not that that is a large determining factor but I think Jayne may need some one with a bit more years and a lot more attitude to keep him in check. It's no secret that I am a Simon/Kaylee shipper, their romantic entanglements are something that could have been explored more in depth on the series. Who knows, Jayne may have been a factor in some complications with their relationship, but no one ever has a happy ending in Jossland. So while I can admit there could have been other pairings, like maybe even Simon and Inara (Mal is quite the stubborn fool and I did see some inklings of at least a little crush on Inara from Simon), I feel like we can only guess at what could have been. For my part, I like Jayne and Kaylee in the brother/sister relatoinship, it's what holds true for me from the series and movie.:D

SQUISH

Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Leiasky:
Wonder how Kaylee would feel when/if she learned Jayne turned Simon and River in.

And *that* would have been a very interesting story to see! It's also something that Jaylee fanfic writers have dealt with in their work. It's interesting to see how each handles it a bit differently, particularly the ones who describe Kaylee understanding why Jayne did it even better than Jayne himself knows (which is quite plausible).

I'll admit to being a big Jaylee fan. I watched the series when it originally aired, and without the benefit of commentaries from Joss or even any input from sites like this, I saw that there might have been something there. I'll also admit that I have no problem with canon pairings, but I personally don't think Kaylee and Simon would last (agree with Jacqui above, especially about the class differences). Now Kaylee and Jayne aren't the perfect couple either, but that can make for a good story.

The thing I love about fanfic is that a good author can draw you in and make you believe in a pairing that you had never thought of before. Right at the moment Kaynara has me completely convinced of Kaylee/Simon and Jacqui has me completely convinced of Kaylee/Jayne. Heck, I even read a Simon/Jayne fic once that was completely believable, and I can't imagine two more unlikely people in a relationship! The thing is to read the fic with an open mind and if you ultimately don't like it, it's okay, but it is the author's right to work in whatever manner they wish and as they are putting their creative spirits on the line (so to speak), they shouldn't be criticized for that. (Okay except for the crazy space incest stuff, I just don't get that! Except, I guess, as a literary exercise, but still...).

Of course ultimately, it's hard to tell what Joss would have done with this motley crew in a series format (I mean other than torture their souls and kill them off one at a time).

Just my two cents,
squish

EVILDINOSAUR

Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:48 PM

I would never want to see that lol, it's just not right. I think somebody in here said it would bring out the softer side of jayne, I don't want jayne to have a softer side lol, I like him just the way he is.

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

MEGMAC

Saturday, March 25, 2006 8:37 PM

TBH I've never thought about the prospect of a Jayne/Kaylee get-together. They are too comfortable with each other for there to be any attraction, they really are like brother and sister or too close to even think about the other in that way.

I will go and check out some of the aforementioned fanfics though.

-----------------------------------------------
Mal: Wheel never stops turning, Badger.
Badger: That only matters to the people on the rim.

DEWFPD

Saturday, March 25, 2006 9:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Persephone736:
Yeah, and I think in the commentary Joss says something about him having a little crush on Kaylee. I'm not certain but I think that's what he says.

Maybe thats why he dislikes Simon so much..jealousy

NATEM

Sunday, March 26, 2006 3:13 AM

A note on the Anara/Simon thing. I think in Out Of Gas commentary director Tim Minear hints at something like this when Anara and Simon are talking about how they thought they were going to die. Also this wasn't necessarily ruined by the movie. I think it would be interesting to find out that the only reason Simon went to Kaylee was because Anara left. Even though she was back it was only supposed to be for a short time and he just moved on. If she were to stay that could create some interesting tension and reopen all the other possibilities like Jayne and Kaylee.

GINGER08

Sunday, March 26, 2006 4:10 AM

Yea, i had never really thought about Jayne and Kaylee together before this thread..

You've got me athinkn' I really do like that idea. Simon and Kaylee always seemed "too right" if that's possible. They seem the obvious choice.

Thanks for opening my eyes to the world of Jaylee.

"huh."

THESOAPBOXER

Sunday, March 26, 2006 4:25 AM

I'm personally a Simon/Kaylee shipper (mostly 'cause I'm lazy and have little imagination), but I believe that Jaylee should get bonus points, based soley on its name. (Brilliant! It meshes so perfectly. A little too perfectly...) Much better than Silee (What's up with that?)

But I'm glad Leiasky started this thread, 'cause I too have never quite understood where Jaylee is coming from (I find it a mite unsettling, myself). So I'm glad that I've heard (ie. read) the thoughts behind it. I don't necessarily agree with these thoughts, but I will fight to the death for your rights to think them.

Yay, tolerance.

_____________________________________________
Could you please just make it stranger? Just stranger. Odder. Could be weirder. More bizarre. How about uncanny?
~Joss Whedon

MEGMAC

Sunday, March 26, 2006 8:03 PM

UPDATE: Ok, read some of the fanfic. I'm converted. I'm a Jaylee shipper

Simon/Kaylee is too safe/obvious - Jaylee just fits better. Kaylee deserves someone who will protect her, and she would bring out Jayne's already hinted at softer side.

------------------------------------------------
Mal: Wheel never stops turning, Badger.
Badger: That only matters to the people on the rim.

SAMEERTIA

Monday, March 27, 2006 4:11 PM

Yup, what Jacqui said.

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Monday, March 27, 2006 5:02 PM

Jacqui, I have to hand it to you. Before your post, I had never understood what anyone would see in a Jaylee relationship. Now I'm itching to go home and watch my DVDs again!

LEIASKY

Monday, March 27, 2006 5:49 PM

>Jacqui, I have to hand it to you. Before your post, I had never understood what anyone would see in a Jaylee relationship. Now I'm itching to go home and watch my DVDs again!

I did the same thing last night. Watched the first disc but I just absolutely don't see it. Not a damn thing that would hint at Kaylee having the least bit of anything but a little sister relationship with Jayne. And his protectiveness toward her just doesn't seem like anything more than an older brother protecting a little sister.

Jacqui is the ONLY Jaylee writer that has ever been able to come CLOSE to convincing me that a K/J relationship might work (but even then I still cringe at the pairing - not the writing, which is excellent). If people are interested in that pairing, I would recomend people read her stuff.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

JANA

Tuesday, April 4, 2006 4:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JynnanTonnyx:

In the unfilmed script - forgotten what it's called - we definately see that Jayne has a soft spot for Kaylee ("bastards singed my turtle" - best quote EVER).

...Unfilmed script? Where can I find it?? Also, where is the interview with Adam Baldwin that has all his musings on Jayne?

How could I have missed these things? *shakes head in woe*

Jana

Some people juggle geese.

SILLYLITTLEDUCK

Tuesday, April 4, 2006 5:06 PM

in the audio commentary of serenity the episode, when jayne is looking into the infirmary from the stairs joss says "and jayne obviously has a crush on kaylee"

LEIASKY

Tuesday, April 4, 2006 7:44 PM

>and jayne obviously has a crush on kaylee"

Yet he doesn't say this was in any way reciprocated.

Jayne is more suited for the whores he seeks out regularly rather than sweet, little Kaylee. :)

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

LEIASKY

Tuesday, April 4, 2006 7:45 PM

>Unfilmed script? Where can I find it??

It's called 'Dead or Alive' and I think you can find it here on these forums.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

JANA

Tuesday, April 4, 2006 10:52 PM

Ooh. No sign of it so far in my search. Got a link?

Jana

I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar...

THESOAPBOXER

Tuesday, April 4, 2006 10:56 PM

http://www.fireflyfans.net/feature.asp?f=45

Huzzah!

_____________________________________________
Could you please just make it stranger? Just stranger. Odder. Could be weirder. More bizarre. How about uncanny?
~Joss Whedon

KAYLEESTHEGREATEST

Wednesday, April 5, 2006 12:39 AM

In my opion I think that Kaylee could be with anyone because she seeks the good in everything and doesnt get blown over or turn sour because of others bad judgements

Someday the verse will spit in your soup but at least they gave you soup.

MISSKITTY34

Wednesday, April 5, 2006 1:01 AM

Here's a civil response to Leiasky's question about Jayne and Kaylee, becasue I've wondered this too. The only things I can think of are:

1) Jayne and Kaylee are the only two on the ship without someone to hook up with - Zoe's with Wash, Cap'n & Inara are hot for eachother, Book is celibate, and Simon is too busy with River.

2) Jayne continually makes sexual remarks about Kaylee - getting "lubed up" over Simon and wishing he was a gynecologist in the pilot, wanting to hear more about her B.O.B "twitching her nethers" in Serenity, plus a few others at various points in the series.

3) Before Simon came on Jayne was the only option Kaylee had.

Miss Kitty 34

LEIASKY

Wednesday, April 5, 2006 1:02 AM

> Before Simon came on Jayne was the only option Kaylee had

Very true!

And they still didn't get together even with no Simon in the picture :)

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

SAB39

Wednesday, April 5, 2006 1:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MissKitty34:
"twitching her nethers"

That's classic!

LEIGHKOHL

Wednesday, April 5, 2006 1:31 AM

I have to agree with Leiasky's post above, Jayne was the only viable option on the ship and they still didn't get together. It has also been pointed out that Jayne and Kaylee have similar backgrounds. That's all good and well but I think that's part of the attraction between Simon and Kaylee, that they are so different. It's not a recipe for disaster, I know plenty of couples that are completely different, from different parts of the country, different backgrounds, all that stuff, and they are still together. My one friend went to boarding school, attended Ivy League, is working on her masters and her boyfriend is from a small town and worked his way up through his company with minimal education. They've been together for four years now (hopefully he will get off his ass and ask her to marry him-we all have our fingers crossed!). That argument just doesn't hold weight for me, I mean, I've dated Republicans ( which is inevitable where I live!). Just my thoughts on that one particular issue.

SILLYLITTLEDUCK

Thursday, April 6, 2006 5:27 AM

>Yet he doesn't say this was in any way reciprocated.

It's Joss's verse, like he's really going to let a couple be happy? do we need to review all the ruined couples that lay in this man's wake? Buffy/Angel Zander/Cordy Willow/Oz Buffy/Riley Willow/Tara Zander/Anya Buffy/Spike Angel/Cordy Fred/Gunn Weasley/Cordy Weasly/and the one chick who's name I can't remember but she worked for Wolfram and Hart. Weasly/Fred (oh that one killed me, I honest to goodness cried) That one reminds me the most. The Weasley/Fred/Gunn triangle is so similar of the Simon/Kaylee/Jayne. He was just laying the foundation to screw with all of the charaters and probably (again,for examples of this look at his body of work) just kill them off.

JYNNANTONNYX

Friday, April 7, 2006 4:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jana:
Quote:
Originally posted by JynnanTonnyx:

In the unfilmed script - forgotten what it's called - we definately see that Jayne has a soft spot for Kaylee ("bastards singed my turtle" - best quote EVER).

...Unfilmed script? Where can I find it?? Also, where is the interview with Adam Baldwin that has all his musings on Jayne?

How could I have missed these things? *shakes head in woe*

Jana

Some people juggle geese.

Sorry I didn't see that earlier

it looks like someone gave you the link to the "Dead or Alive" script. I wouldn't say that it's further evidence towards Jaylee, just more evidence that Jayne has a little crush (in Joss's words too). I'm really not a Jaylee shipper - I like my ships dark, painful and full of redemption

which is why I ship Rayne *woo*

You're really gonna make me find that interview aren't you? *sigh* It's gonna take a while coz I have no idea when or where I saw it. Watch this space

--
"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think."

REENIE

Friday, April 7, 2006 5:38 PM

I watched the series and the movies before finding this site, or fanfic of any kind. It wasn't until I started reading fanfic that the Jaylee concept even occurred to me.

That said, I can totally see a Jayne/Kaylee hook-up. Still, I think some of the arguements made by the Jaylee shippers are a little stretched (easy to do when you want to see something).

If anyone is interested in how it would sound/work, I highly reccomend Jacqui's work. Start with one shot pieces like "Whiskey Bears" or "Sometimes." You'll get the idea soon enough. She captuers ALL the character's voices very well.

Plus, I've been a Joss Whedon fan for a loooong time. He is very, very good at laying the groundwork in one season for things that happen with characters two or three seasons down the road. Though I don't see a whole lot between Jayne and Kaylee yet (beyond caring, comfortable friendship), I think the way Joss played it definately set things up for future drama. Furthermore, I've heard he came out and said as much...that a love triangle was in the works for down the road.

Now that I've been exposed to the Jaylee concept, I can't see it any other way. In my opinion, they would make the most adorable couple in the verse.

LEIASKY

Friday, April 7, 2006 5:43 PM

>You're really gonna make me find that interview aren't you? *sigh* It's gonna take a while coz I have no idea when or where I saw it.

What interview?

There is a Q&A with Joss on the Australian DVD of Serenity where someone actually comes out and pointedly asks him if S/K would stay together.

I've only seen it once, but I believe Joss' response was 'I think they have a good chance', after hemming and hawing a bit over the answer. Anyone else see it?

While I know people like to compare the love triangle stuff with his previous shows, Firefly is nothing like Buffy/Angel, and I just don't believe he'd take the relationships with these characters to the extents he took those.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

JYNNANTONNYX

Friday, April 7, 2006 5:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Leiasky:
>You're really gonna make me find that interview aren't you? *sigh* It's gonna take a while coz I have no idea when or where I saw it.

What interview?

There is a Q&A with Joss on the Australian DVD of Serenity where someone actually comes out and pointedly asks him if S/K would stay together.

I've only seen it once, but I believe Joss' response was 'I think they have a good chance', after hemming and hawing a bit over the answer. Anyone else see it?

While I know people like to compare the love triangle stuff with his previous shows, Firefly is nothing like Buffy/Angel, and I just don't believe he'd take the relationships with these characters to the extents he took those.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

Jana asked about an interview I mentioned before where Adam Baldwin talks about Jayne. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it but I'm still scouring

The main thing that stuck out at me that was unique to that interview was that Adam's take on Jayne was that he was from a middle class family (not working class might most people assume) and that Inara is the type of girl for him - of course this is the actor and not Joss.

And being from Australia I've seen the interview

Well kinda. I was stupid enough to lend the DVD to my friend after I'd only seen it once, and was only half way through the extras

I actually found that QA thing hard to watch - I had no idea our accents were so strong *grin* but they were Queenslanders and they tend to be more ocker

--
"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think."

AZTECHROME

Friday, April 7, 2006 5:54 PM

The Kaylee/Jayne relationship remains undeveloped.

We all know the score with with Simon. "..sex?"

Yeah. I wish Jewel would would want to have sex with some foppish practitioner like Simon. .....
But Kaylee's lusty enough to have multiple interests, even if she cares about Simon. We've seen that in more than a few episodes.

Now, Jayne not only represents the more masculine and physically strong, but also has that bad-guy allure. If anyone was going to split off his own way and become a bad-boy later in Joss's storyline, it would have been Jayne.

Unfortunately, this was a character driven drama.

There was much more to make of the Jayne/Kaylee relationship; I just don't think we got to see very much of it.

LEIASKY

Friday, April 7, 2006 6:04 PM

>There was much more to make of the Jayne/Kaylee relationship; I just don't think we got to see very much of it.

I just don't think it was there to begin with.

Though, I will admit that we didn't get to see the series and the characters develop since the show only ran for 14 episodes.

Just as the Jayne fans think Joss would have developed his character more into pushing him toward Kaylee, I think he would have also done the same thing to Simon's.

Unless Joss did it in a REAL believable way, a relationship between Kaylee and Jayne would completely turn me off on the show.

>Now, Jayne not only represents the more masculine and physically strong, but also has that bad-guy allure.

Yes. Very true. I think that is what turns me off on SO many J/K fics because they all take the characters so out of character that I just don't believe it could happen.

Make Simon an ass simply so that J/K can be together. No. Not his character. Make Jayne a softie at heart so that he appeals to Kaylee's warm side? I just don't believe it. He's rough and he's mean.

Oddly, if there was any better match, it'd be River. She may look soft and delicate but she's as rough and as hard-edged as he is.

I agree that its a character driven drama, that's why I was so sucked into it! laugh

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

AZTECHROME

Friday, April 7, 2006 6:28 PM

I think we see thing from converse vantages.

I always thought Simon had it a little too easy on Kaylee, even though the series was developing that way.

I don't know that Jayne and Kaylee would have happened. I know that Inara was tied up with Mal, and that Zoe was tied up with Wash. Which, as you say, leaves River as sort of the free radical.

Of course I think Joss was planning this all out.

Still, I think I flirtation with Kaylee and Jayne was possible, for a little while; even if only to catalyze Simon into action.

It is indeed a character-driven drama. And what wonderful characters. No matter what your precognitions, you have to agree that the interplay of the crew could have left any number of windows open.

If only we'd seen their vistas.

SILLYLITTLEDUCK

Friday, April 7, 2006 6:40 PM

You don't think Joss would do the samething to these characters as he do to all of his others? You're joking right, Joss is always saying he thinks happy couples are boring. I think if Firefly and run seven season like Buffy it would have involved just as many messed up relationships, probably more since Buffy had three main character's to mess around with and Firefly has nine. (okay four if you count Giles) I do think it's not 100% fair to compare Kaylee/Simon/Jayne to Fred/Gunn/Weasley. I truthfully think it would have been more of a Ross and Rachel from friends thing. On and off so much it becomes annoying but in the end they loved eachother the whole time.

AZTECHROME

Friday, April 7, 2006 6:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sillylittleduck:
You don't think Joss would do the samething to these characters as he do to all of his others? You're joking right, Joss is always saying he thinks happy couples are boring.
On and off so much it becomes annoying but in the end they loved each other the whole time.

Don't get me wrong. I basically agree. I just think that the Jayne/Kaylee exploit could have been briefly dramatic, while inciting some other characters (Simon, Malcolm); to finally get off their asses and pursue those girls.

Everytime Jayne gets near one of the girls, one of the other guys gets really jealous. I think they could have played off of that well....

We just didn't get to see enough. Joss had some shocks in store for us, i bet you.

SILLYLITTLEDUCK

Friday, April 7, 2006 6:54 PM

I completely agree with you! We just didn't see enough of what Joss had going on in his twisted little mind. If given the chance he probably would have been throwing us for loops every chance he got
I Mean hello the move. HE KILLED OFF WASH AND BOOK. I was sad when I saw that movie the first time, never having seen firefly I wasn't too attached but once I rewatched to movie after watching the series, despite that I knew how it ended I still got so upset when Wash and Book were killed.

AZTECHROME

Friday, April 7, 2006 7:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sillylittleduck:
HE KILLED OFF WASH AND BOOK. I was sad when I saw that movie the first time, never having seen firefly I wasn't too attached but once I rewatched to movie after watching the series, despite that I knew how it ended I still got so upset when Wash and Book were killed.

Don't we all wish it could be otherwise....

Poor Joss. He got one more chance to blow on the embers. Some people made the 2hr stretch, and some didn't. Some of my favorites didn't.

(I know there's alot of Wash lovers out there. But I think Ron Glass had more immediate potential to propel the diegesis.)

I'll be happy to argue about it endlessly

What can I say; It's hard to see something so sympatico dissolve over corporate pressures. But I've said that to every newbie.

Ok. I'm done ranting.

Sorry 'bout that.

SILLYLITTLEDUCK

Friday, April 7, 2006 7:29 PM

Oh I agree with Joss that it propelled the story along, making everything mean more and more intense since you're thinking they all really could die. But do you think speilberg could to that? No, way to many director are unwilling to end the movie unhappily. I love that Joss is willing to do it, but I still moarned the loss of Wash and Book (Oh, I love Alan Tudyk he is just amamzing.)

FERT1

Friday, April 7, 2006 7:52 PM

I don't think it can be argued that Jayne ONLY saw Kaylee as a little sister, since Joss, the series creator, says that Jayne has a crush on Kaylee. Joss of all people ought to know! There is also plenty of evidence on the show, as others have mentioned.

I will also point out that Jayne is much more hostile toward Simon than River, even though River is the much greater liability. The ship actually NEEDS a Dr. Crazy girl? Not so much. He gets especially hostile toward Simon when Kaylee has been flirting with Simon. Just the way he watches the two, it is definitely jealousy.

Now that being said, it doesn't mean that it is or ever will be mutual. I think Kaylee has a certain fondness for Jayne as she does everyone on the ship. It's just who she is. At the same time, I think she sees him as mean and crude, and not the least bit appealing as a love interest.

No one but Joss can say for sure, but I suspect that is how it would have continued. Just look at how Willow pined for Xander for years, nothing ever really came out of it, except for a brief flirtation. I think Kaylee goes for the more sensitive type - something Jayne definitely isn't. Joss just adores the unrequited love.

REENIE

Friday, April 7, 2006 8:00 PM

I screwd this up and didn't hit "reply with quote"...so as someone else so eloquently put it

"But Kaylee's lusty enough to have multiple interests, even if she cares about Simon. We've seen that in more than a few episodes.

Now, Jayne not only represents the more masculine and physically strong, but also has that bad-guy allure. If anyone was going to split off his own way and become a bad-boy later in Joss's storyline, it would have been Jayne. "

I couldn't agree more. In end, I think Simon wouldn't be enough for Kaylee.

AZTECHROME

Friday, April 7, 2006 8:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fert1:
I don't think it can be argued that Jayne ONLY saw Kaylee as a little sister, since Joss, the series creator, says that Jayne has a crush on Kaylee.

Sure, but who doesn't have a slightly more than platonic crush on Kaylee. I think even Mal, with all his preoccupations, would be hard pressed to label Jewel as a mere prettifying accessory. (In fact, we know for mostly sure that Mal hired Kaylee because of her exprtise in the field... and her spirit; which is happy-go-lucky.

Quote:
I think Kaylee has a certain fondness for Jayne as she does everyone on the ship. It's just who she is. No one but Joss can say for sure, but I suspect Joss just adores the unrequited love.

No arguments here; but don't you think those two could shape up to be a really *interesting* pair of unrequited love. Just for a little while. Jane and Kaylee in a romance is like a clubfoot dancing with a ballerina. Amusing, at least. Worth the writing for sure.

-the end.

KAYLEESTHEGREATEST

Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:26 PM

I found somthing else to me thinking they have no hints of getting hooked.
As soon as I said those words I wished i could take them back. Jayne isnt the one i should be pooring my soul out to.All hell do is tease

Someday the verse will spit in your soup but at least they gave you soup.

SAB39

Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:51 PM

Jayne doesn't deserve Kaylee.

[spoilers for Dead or Alive follow]

Hell, he couldn't even bear to part with his gorram stupid turtle for her when she needed some cheerin' up.

And it's Kaylee so you know the turtle really would have cheered her up. Especially combined with the gesture, coming from Jayne who clearly loved it.

It's funny really. I've never bought into Jayne and Kaylee, but if he'd given her that stupid turtle, I think I'd have been forced to reconsider... As it turns out, he just proved my point.

SQUISH

Tuesday, April 11, 2006 5:18 PM

Quote:

I just don't think it was there to begin with.

Well, I think it is clearly there on Jayne's part. Whether it was there on Kaylee's part could potentially be argued. We may never know what would have happened (which is where the fun of fanfic lies). And besides it was television. People never stay together in television! Viewers don't actually like it, no matter what they might say.

Quote:

I think that is what turns me off on SO many J/K fics because they all take the characters so out of character that I just don't believe it could happen.

This is interesting because I've always thought that many of the J/K fics were the best out there as far as characterization. Now I will agree that not all of them are. And to me one mark of a good J/K fic (or any non-canon relationship fic) is how they get rid of the other person (in this case Simon). As much as I like J/K, I don't like to see Simon portrayed as out of character just to get him out of the way. However, it can also be said that more than a few S/K fics have weak characterizations, making Simon and Kaylee both so sweet it's a bit much to take. Also making Simon practically abandon River just for Kaylee (which we all know isn't going to happen, it's just not in him). I think Simon is a bit darker than many people portray him in fics and Joss might eventually have gotten around to that. For example, what would Simon do if it was a question of choosing between River and Kaylee (in a life-saving type of situation)?

Just a few thoughts, didn't mean to rattle on so much.

-squish

JYNNANTONNYX

Friday, April 21, 2006 3:50 PM

Jana, I still can't find the gorram interview but I did find a video clip It looks like it was taken at a convention, and it's pretty short.

Hope that works.

--
"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think."

SANDS

Friday, April 21, 2006 4:07 PM

I like Jayne don’t get me wrong. But I really like Kaylee and I don’t think Jayne’s good enough for her. He’s a liar, a dog, and a traitor. Every time I see a post about this I always think “Hey! What’s wrong with Simon? He’s a nice guy.” I like how Simon is a blundering idiot in social situations and I like how Kaylee is nonstop sweet. It’s a match made in heaven its also one of the best parts of the story so like, STOP TAKING IT AWAY FROM ME!

SQUISH

Saturday, April 22, 2006 1:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JynnanTonnyx:
Jana, I still can't find the gorram interview but I did find a video clip It looks like it was taken at a convention, and it's pretty short.

Hope that works.

--
"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think."

OMG! Thank you for that! He is just too cute for words!

-squish

JYNNANTONNYX

Saturday, April 22, 2006 2:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by squish:
Quote:
Originally posted by JynnanTonnyx:
Jana, I still can't find the gorram interview but I did find a video clip It looks like it was taken at a convention, and it's pretty short.

Hope that works.

--
"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think."

OMG! Thank you for that! He is just too cute for words!

-squish

Ain't he

Try searching for "Adam Baldwin" in you tube - there is only a few hits but they're pretty good.

--
"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think."

CANTONHEROINE

Saturday, April 22, 2006 4:07 AM

I'm aware of this interview:-
http://www.chud.com/index.php?type=interviews&id=4546
where he refers to Jayne being from a middle-class background. I think the other you're thinking of is the one from StarLog magazine. I don't have a link for that one, but I do have scans of the interview.

Quote:
"I would bring things down to, 'What drives this guy sexually?' That's interesting to watch, and I tried to play that Inara (Morena Baccarin's beautiful high-class prostitute) is the ideal woman for Jayne. I said to Joss, 'Jayne has a crush on Inara.' Joss replied, 'No, you don't!' I said, 'Well I'm going to play it that way.' I don't know how much it actually comes across in the movie, but that's what I tried to do. Anytime Inara was in the same room as me, I tried to convey that attraction."
In the early days of Firefly Jayne was supposed to have a romantic interest in Kaylee (Jewel Staite), the ship's mechanic. "I was aware of that, but I always thought of Kaylee and Jayne as having more of a sister-brother relationship," says Baldwin. "She's like Jayne's needling little sister. Inara, on the other hand, oozes sex. I thought a dynamic between Inara and Jayne would be an interesting undercurrent, and if I was to play it in scenes with Mal, it would be somewhat more dangerous and raise the stakes. But this is all 'actory' stuff, subtexturally, that I wanted to lay in. It's really a backstory in my mind, though not necessarily in Joss' or Morena's."

See? Even Adam was aware of Jayne's interest in Kaylee on the original show. It was obviously something that Joss particularly wanted, and had discussed as being part of that character's motivations.

--*--*--*--*--

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JYNNANTONNYX

Saturday, April 22, 2006 4:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CantonHeroine:
I'm aware of this interview:-
http://www.chud.com/index.php?type=interviews&id=4546
where he refers to Jayne being from a middle-class background. I think the other you're thinking of is the one from StarLog magazine. I don't have a link for that one, but I do have scans of the interview.

Quote:
"I would bring things down to, 'What drives this guy sexually?' That's interesting to watch, and I tried to play that Inara (Morena Baccarin's beautiful high-class prostitute) is the ideal woman for Jayne. I said to Joss, 'Jayne has a crush on Inara.' Joss replied, 'No, you don't!' I said, 'Well I'm going to play it that way.' I don't know how much it actually comes across in the movie, but that's what I tried to do. Anytime Inara was in the same room as me, I tried to convey that attraction."
In the early days of Firefly Jayne was supposed to have a romantic interest in Kaylee (Jewel Staite), the ship's mechanic. "I was aware of that, but I always thought of Kaylee and Jayne as having more of a sister-brother relationship," says Baldwin. "She's like Jayne's needling little sister. Inara, on the other hand, oozes sex. I thought a dynamic between Inara and Jayne would be an interesting undercurrent, and if I was to play it in scenes with Mal, it would be somewhat more dangerous and raise the stakes. But this is all 'actory' stuff, subtexturally, that I wanted to lay in. It's really a backstory in my mind, though not necessarily in Joss' or Morena's."

See? Even Adam was aware of Jayne's interest in Kaylee on the original show. It was obviously something that Joss particularly wanted, and had discussed as being part of that character's motivations.

--*--*--*--*--

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REN: "We're not hitchhiking anymore! We're RIDING!!"
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*hugs* THANK YOU!! The StarLog interview was the one I was referring to. I hadn't read the interview you linked me to, so thanks :)

Love the picture too *lol* I'm not saying that there isn't a Jaylee dynamic within the show but I think that boat has sailed with the Simon/Kaylee development in the movie. I don't think it's going to be an easy relationship and maybe Jayne might get between them, but I think, ultimately, they'll probably get married, or the like.

I just see River/Jayne as a more likely option. But that's just me

--
"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think."

CANTONHEROINE

Saturday, April 22, 2006 6:25 AM

I agree that the movie totally torpedoed the idea of Jaylee, but it was there on Firefly and I keep it in my little shipper heart.

Being a Rayne fan, have you seen the footage from DragonCon 2005 where Adam (and the rest of the cast) react to that idea? He seemed totally squicked and even washed out his mouth before answering the question... "She's TWELVE!!"

Made me laugh.

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Check out my artwork:
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JYNNANTONNYX

Saturday, April 22, 2006 6:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CantonHeroine:
Being a Rayne fan, have you seen the footage from DragonCon 2005 where Adam (and the rest of the cast) react to that idea? He seemed totally squicked and even washed out his mouth before answering the question... "She's TWELVE!!"

Made me laugh.

No, but I've heard about it. You wouldn't have a link to some footage?

Well, Summer is actually older than Jewel - and River maybe young but she's been through a lot ... *lol* the things we do to keep our ship alive, huh

Edited to add: You're Australian! *hugs* My boyfriend lived most of his life in Tasmania but I've never been :)
--
"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think."

CANTONHEROINE

Saturday, April 22, 2006 7:45 AM

I haven't got the link handy, but I'll try and track it down for you. If I recall correctly, I got it from one of the other threads on this site and burned it onto disc.

EDIT: I FOUND IT!! WOO HOO!! You can download the video from here:
http://www.jivemagazine.com/article.php?pid=3725

(And yes, I'm Australian *returns hug, cheers* . There are a few of us that get about on this site. I like to think of myself as the Lone Tasmanian Browncoat as I've never come across another one.)
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Check out my artwork:
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REN: "We're not hitchhiking anymore! We're RIDING!!"
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RAVENHAIR

Sunday, April 23, 2006 6:15 PM

CantonHeroine - thanks for the link to that video! Is it me or are the BDH just adorable! They come across as being so genuine and funny! Again, what a perfect cast...

Adam Baldwin's reaction to Rayne was funny. I wonder if any of them have read the fanfic?

*****
Mal:We're still flying.
Simon: That's not much.
Mal: It's enough.