Male and Female Imponderables

POSTED BY: Tristan
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 15:29
VIEWED: 18904
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TRISTAN

Thursday, May 4, 2006 5:53 PM

Had to start a thread after spending some time in the "A moment of cattiness et.al". This, in a perfect forum, would be a place to ask questions of the opposite sex that have you confused...and hopefully an answer will be forthcoming. This is not meant to degrade into a Sophmoric discussion, but one of a serious and austere atmosphere...unless of course it just happens to slide.

This thread could just disappear into the archives, or it could be an interesting way to talk about things that have confused all of us for a long time.

Enjoy!

Holding until you get back, Captain.

EMMARIGBY

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:05 PM

Hhhm! Okay, Is the old wive's tale about the relationship between the size of a guy's feet and his penis really true? Ditto for the one about the size of his nose? 'Cos that would be really handy advertisement (not that these things matter of course )

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:13 PM

So far as I am aware, this is not true. Size cannot be determined by anything other than actually looking at the item in question.
I have heard of this old wives' tale, but I can't seem to locate anything on it's origins.

Here's one for the females, then.
Upon meeting a male of "dating age", what is the first thing about them you focus on? (something physical, they way they talk, etc)

Holding until you get back, Captain.

PIZMOBEACH

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EmmaRigby:
....the size of a guy's feet and his penis really true? Ditto for the one about the size of his nose?

Absolutely 100% true... that's why clowns get all the chicks...

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

GRIZWALD

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:19 PM

Oh c'mon Tristan, you're a married man. Surely you understand all there is to know about women.

____________________________________________________
They could not take the sky from them -
Our Big Damn Heroes made a film!
I'm gonna see Serenity then
go back the next morning and see it again.
Cuz no one at Fox knew this show had no equal
C'mon Universal, and greenlight the sequel!

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:21 PM

For me personally it is the attitude. Obviously one notices if a person is really attractive, but the attitude is most important.

I don't deal well with negative people. So thats the first thing I notice, are they a "happy" person or not.

EMMARIGBY

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:24 PM

Okay, this may sound really pathetic but what really turns me on is if a guy is interested in me!
Honestly, a bit of blatent flirting can really up the attractiveness level a whole lot!

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:25 PM

She is right! That too.

Although I tend to flirt with everyone, so I never know when a guy is serious or just flirting back.

Unless of course I don't like you

GRIZWALD

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
Upon meeting a male of "dating age", what is the first thing about them you focus on?

*huff* So we're doing serious answers? Okay, whatEVer.

Ummmm... First thing I used to notice, back when I noticed, because of course now I NEVER notice men other than the one I'm married to, was... Thighs. And it still would be, if I still noticed. Which I don't. (Which is why I also don't watch Viggo Mortensen's dismounts from his horse in Hidalgo over and over and over again. And again.)

____________________________________________________
They could not take the sky from them -
Our Big Damn Heroes made a film!
I'm gonna see Serenity then
go back the next morning and see it again.
Cuz no one at Fox knew this show had no equal
C'mon Universal, and greenlight the sequel!

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

MYSTRE

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EmmaRigby:
Hhhm! Okay, Is the old wive's tale about the relationship between the size of a guy's feet and his penis really true? Ditto for the one about the size of his nose? 'Cos that would be really handy advertisement (not that these things matter of course )

Some of these tales are sort of true for a guy who is proportionally shaped. But not quite the way you have it. It is true that from the base of the hand to the end of the middle finger will be very close to the same size. Also the fingers will defiantly give a clue to girth albeit not directly proportional - Both of these work for a woman with regards to the size of the birth canal, but why would anyone care about this?

The foot is the same length as the distance between your inner elbow to the base of your hand, you can try this a home and see for your selves.

But like I hinted at, it does depend on the person being a genetically proportional body type. Different rules for mutants ;)

There are for sure more of them as the human body has many synchronicities.

EMMARIGBY

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grizwald:
Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
Upon meeting a male of "dating age", what is the first thing about them you focus on?

Ummmm... First thing I used to notice, back when I noticed, because of course now I NEVER notice men other than the one I'm married to, was... Thighs.

Yup, thighs are good!!
I've always had a weakness for a well defined chest (which makes me feel really shallow as I'm not 100% buff myself!). Strangely the male arse, that my friends all rave about, usually leaves me cold. As opposed to a well crafted female rear, which is truely a work of art!

DAYVE

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
Had to start a thread after spending some time in the "A moment of cattiness et.al"

you are very brave sir, going into that den of feminestas...i steered well away from that one.....

and while i am not nearly as confused by the opposite sex as i was some (mumble, mumble) years ago... the odd question does arise.... i've always wondered why some women prefer a life more akin to a day time soap opera than a stable, loving homelife....

is it the bad boy thing...? cause when i'm bad, i'm very bad...and when i'm good....well...i haven't been kicked out of bed for eating crackers, if you get my drift.....

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:36 PM

Grizwald, I am a male that knows his limitations . There are a number of things I "know" about my wife, and many things I understand about females in general (yeah, right, try and convince myself of THAT one!), but I am a willing student of female wiles, and a semi-expert at male wiles.

The flirting thing has always had me intrigued. I am (or was...well, maybe still am) a flirt, and I love the concept of openly flirting (my wife is the same way, neither one of us is jealous of the other at all...weird, long story only if you are interested), even if it never leads anywhere. I prefer "classy" flirting as opposed to "here's my room key" type of thing.
And I always notice eyes...not necessarily color, but eye contact.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:47 PM

Dayve

I wish I could answer your question! I didn't want a bad boy, I wanted the stable home life and look what I got! But that is a long story. I think that some women equate nice and stable with boring which is not true.

Like I said, I like Happy (they don't have to run around smiling like an idiot - I guess I mean optimistic), intelligent, confident people who are kind and that have a fun and playful sense of humor.

(Being in a fantastic cult phenomenom wouldn't hurt either

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:49 PM

I was the only female in my family (other than the ones that married in) for a couple of generations. I spent all my time with males and they flirted with me. It is just the way I learned to relate to them.

It has its ups and downs, I am often dismissed as being not intelligent, but those ones soon learn

The pro is I generally can get things done faster. (course woman hate me)

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:50 PM

Dayve, yeah, it was kinda scary at first...I was afraid to say the wrong thing or have my thoughts misconstrued and end up with a virtual beating, but it turned out alright. One thing being a male; I try to think through what I am going to say before blurting it out when females are involved. I have Neanderthal-like qualities at times, as most males do, but I prefer to act like a more enlightened individual. I find I make more friends that way .

Holding until you get back, Captain.

FOLLOWMAL

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grizwald:
Ummmm... First thing I used to notice, back when I noticed, because of course now I NEVER notice men other than the one I'm married to, was... Thighs. And it still would be, if I still noticed. Which I don't. (Which is why I also don't watch Viggo Mortensen's dismounts from his horse in Hidalgo over and over and over again. And again.)

Or why I don't watch Mal very closely when he walks ( stalks?) around in his tight pants and I love where his gun ties to his leg.

"You hold. Hold 'til I get back." Mal

GRIZWALD

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:58 PM

This day just keeps gettin better and better. I'm trying to concentrate on work here... And then FollowMal starts in about Nathan's thighs... ork.

____________________________________________________
They could not take the sky from them -
Our Big Damn Heroes made a film!
I'm gonna see Serenity then
go back the next morning and see it again.
Cuz no one at Fox knew this show had no equal
C'mon Universal, and greenlight the sequel!

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

DAYVE

Thursday, May 4, 2006 6:58 PM

no, i get that... about the boring part...'the candle that burns brightest, burns shortest...' deal, but after several years of marriage, (with the right person).. i can say that our time together is never dull, we still talk about things that are important to us...hell, we still talk..! which is more than i can say for some couples we know.... but i have seen more than a few women (girls actually) risk everything just to be with the biggest jerk in the world... jerk to me...joe mcCool to them i guess... and it always ends tragically....kids left without a dad... an uneducated and disinterested mom and all the soap operas in the world can't match that sadness....

LYSANDER

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:08 PM

Okay, I have a question mainly for the women, but Tristan seems to know his stuff so I wouldn't be surprised if he has an answer. I have heard that women with small breasts have more sensitive nipples. How true is this? My wife is very well endowed and hers seem very sensitive. What do you all have to say?

Simon: What if he(Mal) tells you to kill me.
Zoe: (without hesitation) I kill you.

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:14 PM

I...umm...thank you, Lysander? I am no Dr. Ruth, I mean...um, the male version of her, but if that comment was meant seriously, then thank you...if it was meant as tongue-in-cheek, then

The experiences I have had are all over the spectrum with this. I have come across very sensitive nipples in all sizes, and some that do not want their nipples touched AT ANY COST because they are uncomfortably sensitive (again, various breast sizes, as well). I have also had the few experiences where there is little or no sensation at all...that's an ego killer right there.
I would hazard to say males are the same way as far as nipples go...I would rather mine not be messed with because of the weird feeling (the thought of piercing makes me climb walls), but there may be some males out there that enjoy having them played with.

My two cents. No, let's hear from the experts!

Holding until you get back, Captain.

DEEPGIRL187

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
I was the only female in my family (other than the ones that married in) for a couple of generations. I spent all my time with males and they flirted with me. It is just the way I learned to relate to them.

It has its ups and downs, I am often dismissed as being not intelligent, but those ones soon learn

The pro is I generally can get things done faster. (course woman hate me)

Not intelligent? Who are the hundans that told you that? And speaking of intelligence, for me, that is one of the first things I notice about a person. Being able to have a stimulating conversation is an attractive trait. 'Course, there is something to be said about big and dumb. *drools over picture of Jayne*

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

GRIZWALD

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lysander:
I have heard that women with small breasts have more sensitive nipples. How true is this?

I wonder how anyone would know the answer to this? I mean, sensation is so subjective. Any studies would have to be based on anecdotal evidence, wouldn't they? Hmmmm. (Pondering the imponderable here.)

____________________________________________________
They could not take the sky from them -
Our Big Damn Heroes made a film!
I'm gonna see Serenity then
go back the next morning and see it again.
Cuz no one at Fox knew this show had no equal
C'mon Universal, and greenlight the sequel!

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:25 PM

except for the uneducated and disinterested mom part you got my story! I thought I had found someone I could be with forever, I was wrong! I am looking for a little boring right now. Too much excitement in the last 18 years!

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:32 PM

I think it depends on the woman, not the size. But I can only tell you that I am sensitive, so who knows!

LYSANDER

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:33 PM

Tristan,
No, it was not meant as a tongue in cheek thing. I've read what you have posted here and on the other thread and you seem to know what you're talking about. I wouldn,t say anything negative to anyone. I don't even know any of you. I'm just stating what I've gathered from your posts.
I am just like you in that I've heard several varying answers and I have also had varying experiences with sizes and sensitivities. I don't think there is a set answer, so I'd like to hear from some of the others.

I also do not like to have mine messed with. It is a weird feeling. Just me!

Simon: What if he(Mal) tells you to kill me.
Zoe: (without hesitation) I kill you.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:38 PM

Unintelligent - Well there is a particular man on this forumm.....

Its because I work in the IT field and I am "too perky" Oh well LOL

See now I don't think Jayne is unintelligent. I just think he likes to put up his wall. For in stance in Shindig when Badger is explaining why he doesn't like Mal and Jayne pipes in with "pretencious" also in the BDW when he confronts Mal. Jayne isn't unitelligent. He is deep, there is mystery - much like the story of Mal and the cotton dresses!

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:43 PM

Lysander, thank you for that response. I have noticed on the board a lot of playful sarcasm, and it is always taken well by all parties involved. I was not angry, irked, insulted, etc., but I did think it could have been a "funny" remark, and I was prepared to take it well. I love sarcasm
Never fear to "insult" me or give me a hard time, even if you don't know me...I can give back what I get and enjoy the exchange! This is for the most part a very friendly forum, and there is a lot of good-natured baiting going on.

Alright, back to the nipple issue...seems Lysander and I both prefer ours to be left alone...any others?

Holding until you get back, Captain.

DAYVE

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:43 PM

FMF
I guess I was thinking about all the girls who drop out of school to be with their studmuffin, who wind up pregnant and, for whatever reason, can't or won't go back to school. My wife is a teacher, so i've seen (or heard) of this firsthand... and, (even though many of my posts might indicate otherwise), i strongly believe that education is the key to a better future.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:46 PM

I agree

Don't forget the women that trade in perfectly good husbands for jerks they meet in bars and on the internet.

That never fails to amaze me.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:48 PM

Speaking as a woman who has been alone now for about a year. Um I ferget

WILDIGSTART

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:50 PM

First thing I notice: the grin/smile/eyes lighting up when talking about something they love. Shows a passion that one might be able to tap into at a later time/location

Soap Opera bad boys: I don't want a bad boy in life...i want a bad boy in the bedroom. That can sometimes be hard to find among the respectful, intelligent, funny, creative, dorks in the world...but not impossible.

The nipple thing is subjective and it sounds like a study is in the works...i like it...and i like to find out if he likes it...

Why do men cry when they watch Somewhere in Time?

You see? She's not a junkie or mentally ill, she's gifted!--Momma Roxy

DEEPGIRL187

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
See now I don't think Jayne is unintelligent. I just think he likes to put up his wall. For in stance in Shindig when Badger is explaining why he doesn't like Mal and Jayne pipes in with "pretentious" also in the BDW when he confronts Mal. Jayne isn't unitelligent. He is deep, there is mystery - much like the story of Mal and the cotton dresses!

Agreed. Jayne does have some smarts to him. Maybe uneducated is the better term.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:55 PM

Here's another one:
For those of you either married or in a serious relationship; what is the most important aspect of a happy marriage/relationship?

I am going with trust.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:57 PM

Yeah, if he'd wanted learnin' he'd of gone to school!

DAYVE

Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:57 PM

however, not to be taken too seriously...i must tell you that i've been escorted to the gates of some of the finest schools in the southwest... and did indeed receive my coveted diploma from SDU... click here to view the recently completed web site of my prestigous alma mater... http://www.slimsdiscountuniversity.com/

CHRISMOORHEAD

Thursday, May 4, 2006 8:02 PM

Question for both: What the hell is up with "flirting"? Is it not enough that two people are attracted to one another? Why do you play silly monkey games with each other?

Questions for women:
Look at your wardrobe. How many articles of clothing do you have that hug your ass and thighs? How many shorts come above mid thigh? How many tops "accentuate" the area that they cover? WHY? That stuff CANNOT be comfortable.

On a related subject, makeup: You look better without it, and even if you don't, oh well. Why do you spend any amount of time trying to put on a fake face? Oh, I've heard it before, "I do it to make myself feel pretty, not for others to". Bull-Crap. I spend just enough time on grooming myself to not offend others with BO. Anything beyond that is superfluous.

A finally... stop wearing perfume to the gym. It's hard to breath deep on a treadmill when you're sucking up chemicals from the thing in the annoyingly bright hot pink tank top next to you.

Questions for men: What the hell is your problem? Since when has manliness been defined as indulging in your own desires? How about some FREGGIN restraint? The universal measure of masculinity is and has always been SUFFERING. Suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character. You deny yourself temptations and you grow as a person, and to become a man you undergo a ritual, a trial of endurance and pain to make the transition. What are our rituals today? College hazing? Drinking as much as possible and fucking anything that moves? Damn you and your filthy heathen ways! And now we live in a country of 30 year old BOYS!

Gorram it, man.

Have you ever:
Used your teeth as wire strippers?
Given yourself stitches?
Made improvised munitions with no base supplies?
Pissed in a canteen?
Gone a month without bathing?

If so, you MIGHT just be a !HOOAH MOTHERF*CKER!

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 4, 2006 8:04 PM

Jayne, to me, seems to personify the football hero. He is strong, forceful, and base. He knows what he wants and the easiest way to get it. He also looks out for himself foremost, and others only if their well-being is good for him. All of this is not meant to be insulting to the character. There is a bit of him in every male, and it oftentimes comes out. He is also intelligent, and there were a few glimmers of that mentioned in above posts, and loyal (even if his idea is skewed {Ariel, for example}). I like his character; he appeals to my "bonk them on the head with a club" parts.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 4, 2006 8:08 PM

Well I can think of many a woman who perked up at the reference to bonk!

and yes I agree!

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 4, 2006 8:13 PM

Umm, FMF, that was "bonk on the head"...not just "bonk"...although... thoughts abound.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

LYSANDER

Thursday, May 4, 2006 8:16 PM

I would have to agree with Chris when he says that the ladies don't need make-up. My wife stopped wearing it shortly after we met and I think she is more beautiful without it. I'm not sure what the comment about the 30 year old boys is. I don't think that there is anything wrong with acting young as long as you know when to do it.

Tristan, great question. I have been with my wife for 12 years and married for 8. We have gone through some rough times with illness but never had a problem where we have really fought. I do beleive that trust is huge in a marriage but I think the thing that works for my marriage is that my wife is my best friend. We talk about anything and everything and there's nothing kept secret.

Simon: What if he(Mal) tells you to kill me.
Zoe: (without hesitation) I kill you.

LYSANDER

Thursday, May 4, 2006 8:22 PM

I also don't think that there is a problem with flirting. I have an excellent relationship with my wife, but we both have a tendency to flirt. It doesn't go beyond that. Again, much like Tristan said, it is a long story. It makes people feel good and I like to make people feel good.

Simon: What if he(Mal) tells you to kill me.
Zoe: (without hesitation) I kill you.

13

Thursday, May 4, 2006 8:29 PM

What moron said everbody hates Chris? Was it Fox? Whatever. Alright, question for all the teenage girls out there:

In general, would you feel unattracted to a guy if was a crapload smarter than you? I've learned from experience that it does, and have suffered greatly from my damn 156 i.q, as lots of girls immediately classify me as a nerd or a geek.

(Just realized the irony of that statement.)

I think a little chaos is in order.

WILDIGSTART

Thursday, May 4, 2006 8:37 PM

hate make up...rarely wear it. maybe twice a month.

You see? She's not a junkie or mentally ill, she's gifted!--Momma Roxy

WILDIGSTART

Thursday, May 4, 2006 8:42 PM

Not a teen girl...but as a teen, i was always fond of the nerds, geeks, and dorks...but i was one.

I still prefer the glasses and shelf full of books...a brain is always sexier than a body.

You see? She's not a junkie or mentally ill, she's gifted!--Momma Roxy

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 4, 2006 8:44 PM

Not to travel into the realm of fantasy (wait, isn't this board dedicated to....no, it IS reality), but I am a follower of the idea of chivalric love. "You have a significant other who you love and are devoted to, and you flirt?" Well, yes, let me explain.
Flirting is an art form, and at it's higher levels, can be as exciting as love. The chivalric ideal was to love someone in every way but physically.
Lysander, as a fellow medievalist, you may be able to help me here.
It's sort of like having the beginning part of a relationship, the intense, adrenaline-inducing part, last for a long time. My wife and I still have this; we still flirt, we are best friends, and we also fight together (literally, like with swords). Both of us are flirts, although I have slacked off lately.
It's not that easy to explain in words, but it is almost a game; an intellectual pas de deux that enriches both lives without creating the akwardness of an affair of the flesh...

Any of this making sense, or have I managed to tree myself?

Lysander....help?

Holding until you get back, Captain.

NVGHOSTRIDER

Thursday, May 4, 2006 8:53 PM

For anyone in the 'verse that could give me a bit of advice. My quandry has recently come to a very surpising head. A "friend" has recently distanced herself from her other, albeit lesser half. My best friend, (who happens to be female), warned me about becoming "that guy". Everyone knows "that guy". The guy after someone serious who somehow snaked his way in despite being a total gorram tool. My mistake may or may not be the fact that I've not allowed myself to give in to the only great woman that has excited me mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually in TEN years, (and I'm 28). I've already made the decision to peraue her, but I'm in serious help on how.
PS. All the guys I asked agreed with the wrist to middle fingertip thing.

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 4, 2006 9:02 PM

My only concern would be whether or not she is married. That would make a world of difference. If she is, be her friend until the divorce is final, then see what happens. If she's not...well, I would still be careful. It would also be helpful if she felt the same for you.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

JPSTARGAZER

Thursday, May 4, 2006 9:08 PM

I find that it isn't really the things I DON'T know about women that puzzle me, but the things I DO know about men.

As a guy, I don't really care to know why women go to the bathroom in packs (because I assumed it wasn't the reason I wished they went in there together). I do wonder who invented the urinal buffer rules? Do they still apply if there are dividers? Why is there that one guy who insists on peeing next to me and then tries to start a conversation?

I don't really care what physical feature women check out first, as I can't really change any of that. I do want to know how a girl's interest in you is so "subtle" that you don't even notice until it's too late, and then it's all to apparent (guilty of this on several occasions).

And I swear God gave men unreliable brains because certain parts just don't work when women are involved. I mean reason, judgement, and sometimes coherent speech? Nonexistent in the presence of certain females.

I have accepted that women are quirky (I think that's putting it kindly) but the fact that men are fundamentally simple, and we can't even change that of which we are aware is what puzzles me.

"All I got is a red guitar, three chords, and the truth...the rest is up to you"
--Bono

CALLMESERENITY

Thursday, May 4, 2006 9:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wildigstart:
Not a teen girl...but as a teen, i was always fond of the nerds, geeks, and dorks...but i was one.

I still prefer the glasses and shelf full of books...a brain is always sexier than a body.

Amen!

Serenity,
First Officer of Destiny
President of The Juggled Gosling Chatroom
Bride8

http://callmeserenity.livejournal.com/

LYSANDER

Thursday, May 4, 2006 9:17 PM

I'm not sure what it is Tristan but you and I seem to be on the same page here. I think it is great that you and your wife sword fight together. My wife is more of a watcher while I do the sword fighting. As for the flirting thing, you seem to have it down. I don't think that there is anything wrong with it. To make an intellectual connection with someone else is not a bad thing. It gives a certain level of thrill to both parties. It's a good feeling as should be felt by everyone. There does not have to be any mention of the physical. What I have with my wife is a great thing and I would not change it for the world. It sounds like Tristan and his wife are much the same. Congratulations! It is more like a fun game in which all parties feel good about themselves. I don't know how much this is going to help Tristan, but I do know that chivalry has passed many people by over these many years.

Simon: What if he(Mal) tells you to kill me.
Zoe: (without hesitation) I kill you.

MSCKAREN

Thursday, May 4, 2006 9:26 PM

So many topics already in this thread:

Smaller breasts have more sensitive nipples:

I think this may stem from the fact that when a woman gets a breast enlargement the nerves often end up damaged so they may look pretty but they aren't going to give the girl much of a thrill... One of the reasons I decided against this procedure back in my 20s. I was foolishly dating and ended up marrying (later divorcing) a boob man when I should have gotten myself a butt guy. C'est la vie!

Flirting:

Not my forte but I appreciate it when it's done well. I guess it could be classified as a game depending on the intentions of the people involved. It is kind of a dangerous gateway for marrieds or "committeds", IMHO.

Bad boys:

Love 'em. This is frankly because, in my limited experience, they are better in bed. I don't need a man to support me or be a father to my children. I can take care of fixin' things or have the means to pay to have them fixed. So they only thing I need a man for is sex. Nice guys are just too nice for the kind of sex I like - even when I tell them exactly what I want. (Please, don't e-mail me any offers - I'm happy with what I have right now!)

Makeup:

Again, in my experience men who say they don't like make-up mean they don't like an artificial look. They prefer the "natural" look which means no blue/green eyeshadow, heavy eyeliner, deep red rouge or lipstick. But most (I'm sure there are a few exceptions) seem to like the look of a tinted chapstick and a bit of mascara (waterproof).

These are my opinions/experience and not meant to say anybody else is wrong. Viva la difference!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've cancelled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."
http://karenallover.blogspot.com/

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 4, 2006 9:33 PM

Thank you, Lysander. It's good to know I am not alone.
Sex...no, I did not mention it. With my wife, wonderful, with others, not an interest of mine. I am completely happy with what I have in that department, but we both also love the flirting...like you said, weird to those that don't understand. No, we are not swingers, and no, neither one of us is having an affair--that is for all the others reading this with a raised eyebrow.
Chivalry is not dead by any stretch of the imagination...at least in my little world!

MSCKAREN, it is nice to see an opinion like that. Thank you for being frank! I, for one, have always wondered if females feel the same level of lusts as males do.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 4, 2006 9:48 PM

13

I certainly hope you don't go around (a) telling girls your IQ or (b) telling them that you are a crap load smarter than they are!

Suffice it to say that I am very intelligent. Some me are intimidated by that, I just don't date those men.

You should find girls more your equal.

NVGHOSTRIDER

Thursday, May 4, 2006 9:59 PM

Appreciate the input TRISTAN. Through the grapevine the feelings are mutual, but we just haven't met in the middle yet. She is not married and I have enough self respect to hold out for someone who can meet my prerequisites, (better looking, richer, and smarter than me). She also understsnds that I'd been places and done things I'm not proud of. She sees me as the "hero" everyone else sees, but she beats my ego to a pulp when it emerges. She left me all turned about and Mal-adjusted.

SAMEERTIA

Thursday, May 4, 2006 10:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 13:

In general, would you feel unattracted to a guy if was a crapload smarter than you? I've learned from experience that it does, and have suffered greatly from my damn 156 i.q, as lots of girls immediately classify me as a nerd or a geek.

(Just realized the irony of that statement.)

I think a little chaos is in order.

I'm not a teen-ager, but YES! '

Men who are alot smarter than I am intimidate and scare the hell out of me. If I can't keep up in a conversation, or if they're suddenly calculating the algorithm that determines the amount of salt that falls out of a salt shaker at dinner (I shit you not. It has happened to me on a date!), I get scared and run away like the dumb bunny I am!

Alot of that has far more to do with my own insecurities. I know I'm not stupid, but I'm never going to be a River Tam. Anything more advanced than Algebra 101 is beyond my mathematical ability.

So, to have a guy who thinks way beyond my capabilities, even though he may think the world of me, and reassure me constantly that he thinks I'm smart- well, I feel like a moron constantly. And that's not fun.

As for breasts, as a bisexual with a pair of my own, I think I can honestly say from experience that it depends on the woman, not the breast.

ELOISA

Thursday, May 4, 2006 10:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 13:
In general, would you feel unattracted to a guy if was a crapload smarter than you? I've learned from experience that it does, and have suffered greatly from my damn 156 i.q, as lots of girls immediately classify me as a nerd or a geek.

(Just realized the irony of that statement.)

In a teenager? If the IQ wasn't matched by a bit of obvious emotional intelligence, frankly, yes. In an older guy who's had time to a) develop and b) demonstrate said social IQ, I'd see it as an asset.

***
http://forums.ffonline.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19
Creative Writing

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 4, 2006 10:57 PM

Not a problem, NVGhostrider. Sometimes a stranger has some good input, sometimes not...
Let me know how it works out.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

EMMARIGBY

Thursday, May 4, 2006 11:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 13:
What moron said everbody hates Chris? Was it Fox? Whatever. Alright, question for all the teenage girls out there:

In general, would you feel unattracted to a guy if was a crapload smarter than you? I've learned from experience that it does, and have suffered greatly from my damn 156 i.q, as lots of girls immediately classify me as a nerd or a geek.

(Just realized the irony of that statement.)

I think a little chaos is in order.

Again, not a teenage girl, but having actually been out with a near genius I feel I can comment. It was actually his intellect that drew me to him. Sometimes he just said things that were so witty and clever that I just had to jump on him and rip all his clothes off! (On reflection this might have been my genes controlling me, as he's have made superior kids! Damn biology and its subliminal effects!)

The problem came when he became short tempered and impatient with me when I couldn't keep up. Because I wasn't as instantly articulate as him and occasionally had trouble expressing my thoughts in presicely correct terms he would tend to dismiss whatever I said! Very frustrating and horribly bad for the ego! So a little warning, develop your patience skills. It'll get you more sex for longer!

NUCLEARDAY

Friday, May 5, 2006 1:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jpstargazer:
I don't really care what physical feature women check out first, as I can't really change any of that. I do want to know how a girl's interest in you is so "subtle" that you don't even notice until it's too late, and then it's all to apparent (guilty of this on several occasions).

LOL, historically I've been absolutely clueless when it comes to a girl dropping hints my way :) This has been known to go on for years. Doesn't generally help that I've never been terribly good at broaching the whole "you and me" subject with anyone I've been interested in. ('Course that's where my little sister comes in handy, as it's always so terribly obvious to her :)

To be fair, though, I think I've been guilty of the same thing: being too subtle about being interested in someone.

Far as the wrist to middle-finger thing: that's pretty accurate on my end I suppose.

And I'd generally rather not have her spend too much time on my own nipples (maybe as I guy I'm still not terribly settled on just why I have them or something :) But in the interests of fair play, I've been known to acquiesce to the wishes of my partner on more than one occasion. :P
________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. (Or if Kaylee asks me nicely...)

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, May 5, 2006 3:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dayve:
i've always wondered why some women prefer a life more akin to a day time soap opera than a stable, loving homelife....

Funny, I've wondered the same thing about men. I just had my heart broken, and the reason I was given was that we didn't have any "spontaniety" which was really, really not true. He just got used to how our relationship worked. I liked the stability, esspecially because we had the trick down of stability and passion in one neat little package; but I guess he didn't like it. So it's not just a female mystery, is it?

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, May 5, 2006 3:33 AM

Alright, now I've read the rest of this thread so:
Size has nothing to do with sensitivity (unless there are implants, as mentioned) I am almost painfully sensitive at times and I'm a C, so that has nothing to do with it. I think that sensitivity is in the mind as much as the body, too, from my personal experience , but that's a long drawn out thing that I don't have time to go into as I'm at work. Maybe later if people really want to hear about it.
Subtle hints; yeah, I stopped trying that awhile ago. If youre too subtle he doesn't notice you, I realized this very early in my life. So, I try to be obvius. I found giving hugs, sitting in laps, and asking guys if they liked me to be very good techniques. Even the smart guys (who I happen to find very attractive; I have a 140-something IQ myself, by-the-by) were clueless unless I just came out and asked them. I don't mind being direct.
Most important thing in a relationship to me is honesty. Trust comes from honesty, knowing what you have in common comes from honesty, everything comes from being honest. Too many people try and be or act a certain way to impress someone, and it never works. I think one of the problems with my most recent relationship (read: heartbreak) was that we had some very differing views on a few things, and he could never come right out and say it. I don't know why. People should know who they are and not be afraid to show it. Honesty to yourself is as important to success as honesty to your partner. I'm not just being bitter here!
What else? It has been conclusively proven that feet are not an indicator of size. I don't know that hands really are, either. I don't know that anything is. I've known guys with quite large hands and, uh, not very large members. My recent ex had very slender fingers, though they were pretty long, and he was surprisingly thick (try losing your virginity to that ouchouchouch) so I don't think that's an inicator either. I can't say if size matters to me since I've only had the one full-fledged partner, but I really don't think there's a way to tell without seeing someone naked.
What do I notice first? The face. Overall face, ending with the eyes as my focus. I like a nice voice and good conversation. Someone who really knows how to speak is very attractive. In terms of body, I notice different things depending on the gender. I think anyone can have a beautiful body if they're attractive to me in other ways. But I'm kind of an ass girl, for both genders, and I love women's waists and men's chests.
Did I cover everything? I think I did...

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

VINTERDRAKEN

Friday, May 5, 2006 3:39 AM

Had a discussion about nipples with a ex of mine once. And what I learned from that discussion is that people with small breast (like she had) generally have softer bras and since there nipples dont get irritated by constant exposure to fabrics they become more sensitive, while women with larger breast have bras with less stuffing and therefore there niples are exposed to more agitation and become less sensitive. She also told me that she barely could use shirts if she hadnt a bra on because it hurt like hell for a while, but also that after a week or two she wouldnt be so sensitive any longer and didnt need to use a bra to protect her nipples, and ive learned that the reason men generelly have less sensitive nipples is the simple fact, we have no bras at all and therefore our nipples constantly are exposed to stimulation by shirts and other clothingitems and we lose much of our sensetivity in that region. And ofcourse, some people are just more sensitive then others.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

LYSANDER

Friday, May 5, 2006 4:34 AM

Vinterdraken and Phoenixrose,
Thank you both for your insight into my question. It's funny how no matter what yo ask, people will honestly respond.

So, are there any other people with questions or comments? Look forward to hearing from all of you. Thanks for the thread Tristan.

Simon: What if he(Mal) tells you to kill me.
Zoe: (without hesitation) I kill you.

SAMEERTIA

Friday, May 5, 2006 4:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
Here's another one:
For those of you either married or in a serious relationship; what is the most important aspect of a happy marriage/relationship?

I am going with trust.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

Communication.
Trust hast to be built, has to be earned. Honesty has come before trust, but THAT still has to be communicated.

Funny, I moved 300 miles away from my primary partner, and VOILA! We're communicating like never before! It's fabulous. We were at a party last weekend and our friends were telling us how envious they are of how great our relationship is and how well we seem to communicate. We both said, "It's soo much work! But so so worth it!"

RHYIANAN

Friday, May 5, 2006 5:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:

Questions for women:
Look at your wardrobe. How many articles of clothing do you have that hug your ass and thighs? How many shorts come above mid thigh? How many tops "accentuate" the area that they cover? WHY? That stuff CANNOT be comfortable.

On a related subject, makeup: You look better without it, and even if you don't, oh well. Why do you spend any amount of time trying to put on a fake face?

First, I like wearing clothes like that because I feel good in them, and I find them more comfortable than clothes that are baggy (but that's just me). Also, if you compare modern women's clothing to clothing of other eras (corsets, hoop skirts, bustles, ect.) then modern clothes are more comfortable than what were worn in the past.

Secondly, I agree with the makeup thing, I rarely if ever wear it, almost only in situations where I'll be under bright lights. However, I've found that putting on makeup helps me calm down when I'm angry (don't ask why, I haven't the slightest clue).

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, May 5, 2006 5:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Vinterdraken:
Had a discussion about nipples with a ex of mine once. And what I learned from that discussion is that people with small breast (like she had) generally have softer bras and since there nipples dont get irritated by constant exposure to fabrics they become more sensitive, while women with larger breast have bras with less stuffing and therefore there niples are exposed to more agitation and become less sensitive.

I'm sorry, but that's a little ridiculous. If your bra fits, it won't rub your nipples. From my experience wearing A's, B's and C's, it's actually easier to find bras that fit nice and snug when you're a little more well endowed. When I frist started to develop, my bras never fit right, now they fit fine and there's no excess stimulation. Most women have trouble finding the perfect bra since we're all shaped a little differently, but they do exist because the companies that make them know we're all shaped differently. It's just a matter of hunting around. Of course there's still the mind over matter factor in it; if you're nervous, stimulation doesn't feel as good and sensitivity might go up or down depending on your natural state of being. I'll restate that I can be painfully sensitive, but once I relax, that sensitivity is just... nice. An advantage, even. That's why easing into anything physical is pretty important.
It's interesting, too, to hear that so many men aren't sensitive or don't like to be stimulated that way. I have yet to find a man who doesn't turn to pudding if you brush/kiss his nipples correctly, though I did meet one who claimed he'd gotten them pierced in order to "wake up" the nerves. Weird. I thought it tended to kill more nerves than it woke up, but I guess it worked for him.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, May 5, 2006 5:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Rhyianan:
Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:

Questions for women:
Look at your wardrobe. How many articles of clothing do you have that hug your ass and thighs? How many shorts come above mid thigh? How many tops "accentuate" the area that they cover? WHY? That stuff CANNOT be comfortable.

On a related subject, makeup: You look better without it, and even if you don't, oh well. Why do you spend any amount of time trying to put on a fake face?

First, I like wearing clothes like that because I feel good in them, and I find them more comfortable than clothes that are baggy (but that's just me). Also, if you compare modern women's clothing to clothing of other eras (corsets, hoop skirts, bustles, ect.) then modern clothes are more comfortable than what were worn in the past.

Secondly, I agree with the makeup thing, I rarely if ever wear it, almost only in situations where I'll be under bright lights. However, I've found that putting on makeup helps me calm down when I'm angry (don't ask why, I haven't the slightest clue).

Ah, I forgot those points. I like tighter clothes because they support the girls, and yeah, they make me feel good. Clothing doesn't have to be uncomfortably tight to hug the form.
I haven't worn makeup for years. I used to, but I got tired of it. It's easier not to worry, and I've never had a guy tell me I looked bad without it.
I understand how it could be calming, though. It's kinda precise work. I get the same effect from sewing.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

SASSALICIOUS

Friday, May 5, 2006 6:21 AM

Absolute first thing? Whether or not he's closer to my mom's age than mine. I'll confess, when it comes to relationships I'm a bit of an age-ist. And height-ist. Sometimes it sucks being sort of tall.

Following this, the "first thing" I look for is personality/fun-ness/spontaneity/ and some modicum of intelligence.

SASSALICIOUS

Friday, May 5, 2006 6:32 AM

No, I wouldn't be unattracted, but I'm arguably a bit of a geek myself and also have a high IQ.

CHRISMOORHEAD

Friday, May 5, 2006 7:04 AM

Quote:
First, I like wearing clothes like that because I feel good in them, and I find them more comfortable than clothes that are baggy (but that's just me). Also, if you compare modern women's clothing to clothing of other eras (corsets, hoop skirts, bustles, ect.) then modern clothes are more comfortable than what were worn in the past.

What do you mean you "feel good" in them? Placing that phrase as a prelude to them being more comfortable (which I also find almost impossible to believe, but, ok.) would suggest that you meant "feeling good" in them was different than them being comfortable. So what makes you "feel good" in them?

I believe this is the core of the issue, because whether or not females wish to admit it, they like the attention it gets them. Of course, when you have guys who would get into a car accident just to get a second glance at you, I'm sure it does wonders for your ego. But assuming this is the case (and I AM assuming that) I have to ask, are you unable to draw a distinction between positive attention and negative attention? It's like those trouble makers in high school and middle school environments, not caring if they get detention as long as they turn heads. Well guess what the negative side to wearing those clothes is? A lot, if not most, guys take it as a sign that you're "open for business" so to speak. Oh sure, just say no, right? There's a reason I can't turn on the freggin radio or TV any day of the week and NOT hear about some girl getting raped, and this is one of those reasons.

Modesty is a far greater virtue than being aesthetically pleasing.

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, May 5, 2006 7:15 AM

Chrismoorehead:
Wearing form fitting clothing and dressing like a whore are two very different things. And it is incredibly insensitive to say that women invite being raped by how they dress. Have you ever known a rape victim? Do you know what happens to their spirit and their psyche when something like that happens to them? And do you have any idea how difficult it is to get them past the idea that it was their fault? Any girl I have ever known that got raped was not dressed in any particular way, nor casting any lures. Rape is, as far as I'm concerned, a by-product of testosterone poisoning, it is one of the most hideous things that happens in our world, and it has been happening for hundreds if not thousands of years! A low-cut top or tight pair of jeans have nothing to do with being attacked. Do you think they had those centuries ago? Do you think rapists really select their victims that way? Don't ever, ever say that a woman invites being raped again! Rape is no one's fault but the attackers themselves, it is inexcusible, and I will bring the wrath of Vera down on anyone who says otherwise!

CHRISMOORHEAD

Friday, May 5, 2006 7:22 AM

Quote:
Bad boys:

Love 'em. This is frankly because, in my limited experience, they are better in bed. I don't need a man to support me or be a father to my children. I can take care of fixin' things or have the means to pay to have them fixed. So they only thing I need a man for is sex. Nice guys are just too nice for the kind of sex I like - even when I tell them exactly what I want. (Please, don't e-mail me any offers - I'm happy with what I have right now!)

If nothing, at least you're honest. That aside... what the hell? People should never be this comfortable with sex. You know what sex is akin to? Killing. You do them both for the propagation of the species and continuation of your line. It is despicable that anyone is comfortable with this.

Sometime in the future, this country will crumble like every country before it. Not a doomsday prophecy, just a fact, no government last forever. When it does, people who over-indulge will DIE OUT. You will watch your families and loved ones die in front of you and then you will follow because you do not take the time to understand and appreciate life on a thinner line, because you lack the discipline necessary to survive... ok, I know this is seeming really irrelevant right now, so I'll try to sum it up. Why is it that every time a group of individuals endures the shittiest times known to man and drag their people through the dirt and mud to found a new place and new hope for them that only a couple of generations afterwards their own bloodlines FORGET THE LESSONS OF THEIR FOREFATHERS!? Sex, food, shelter, these things are PRIVILAGES that were paid for in blood, and yet, people selfishly abuse them. You wait and see, you have the freedom to do whatever the hell you want and I don't even think that you shouldn't be allowed to, but the more freedom you use, the higher the price is to obtain it, and one day that debt will be paid, in YOUR blood, or maybe YOUR CHILDRENS blood.

I'm spent.

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, May 5, 2006 7:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
Quote:

If nothing, at least you're honest. That aside... what the hell? People should never be this comfortable with sex. You know what sex is akin to? Killing. You do them both for the propagation of the species and continuation of your line. It is despicable that anyone is comfortable with this.

I feel so sorry for you. I really, really feel bad for anyone who has this view of sex. It pains me to know how many people won't know real pleasure in their lives. Akin to killing? See, that's despicable. How could the physical act of love be akin to killing? How could anything so deeply spiritual be anything but beautiful? Why shouldn't we be comfortable with that? Seriously. Most of the problems I have with the world today is how very uptight and puritanical it is. Not to say that sex shouldn't be respected, but I don't think it should be hidden away and taboo either, as it's natural.
And it's a great stress reliever if you let yourself enjoy it. You should try that sometime.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

CHRISMOORHEAD

Friday, May 5, 2006 7:34 AM

Do I know any rape victims? One too many, I'm afraid, to the point I really believe at least 1/10th of women who claim to be raped these days are lying.

Now, on to the meat an potatoes. In true female fashion, you completely took what I said out of context by letting your emotions speak instead of your brain (big surprise there...). Now, for the TRUE meaning, I do not believe that anyone "deserves" to be raped or that they "invite" rape. That being the ideal, here's the reality: Men DO rape, and they DO rape selectively. More on that in a minute. IN response to the reality of the situation, you have a choice: Accept it, and react accordingly, or ignore it and be at greater risk for the consequences.

Now, back to the selective raping issue. Yes, if you're showing more skin, or more curvature, men are more attracted to you. Admit it, that's the reason you do it in the first place. Now, a man who would rape and a man who wouldn't are two different creatures, IE: If he's the type that would rape a woman, he's going to do it given the opportunity and situation, if he's not, then no opportunity presented could make him. What makes women more of a likely target for the former is things that make them stand out. Skin, tight clothes, etc., and of course to varying degrees. Trust me, this is how the mind of a man works. Tattoo on the lower back? They call it the "tramp stamp". Mouth piercing? "Enter Here" sign. I don't LIKE these things anymore than you, but it is the sad condition of our reality.

Now, I'm not saying you "shouldn't" do these things, but if you want to be smart.. well, hey, it's up to you. Me? I carry first aid supplies 24/7, 25 ft of 550 parachute cord, a lighter, Leatherman multi-tool, I got a gas mask in the back seat of my car... call me paranoid. I just don't see the sense in not being prepared and in CHOOSING to remain ignorant of your surroundings.

Have you ever:
Used your teeth as wire strippers?
Given yourself stitches?
Made improvised munitions with no base supplies?
Pissed in a canteen?
Gone a month without bathing?

If so, you MIGHT just be a !HOOAH MOTHERF*CKER!

ZOOT

Friday, May 5, 2006 7:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EmmaRigby:
Hhhm! Okay, Is the old wive's tale about the relationship between the size of a guy's feet and his penis really true? Ditto for the one about the size of his nose? 'Cos that would be really handy advertisement (not that these things matter of course )

Okay - I know this was posted a while ago but I only just read it...

I pride myself on my role as "internet researcher extraordinaire" and in such guise would like it noted that it's taken me 30 seconds to find this (a personal best - woo hoo)!

http://www.snopes.com/risque/penile/size.htm

I LOVE that someone took the time to resolve this one “scientifically” – can you get a grant for that?

***************************************

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

WILDIGSTART

Friday, May 5, 2006 7:51 AM

What the hell?

Two things...first, speaking as someone that has been there: clothes have nothing to do with rape. It's a violent assault. It has nothing to do with sex. It's all about power.

Secondly, we can damn well have sex with whomever, whenever, however often we want. Do I think we as a society take sex too casually? Yes. Do i think it should be regulated to only procreation? No. There is a respectable medium in there.

back on topic...Men, why do you always rent the 'Uncut Version' of a move? It's not the director's cut or a some artsy re-edit...it's just tits and ass. Does it rally make the movie better?

You see? She's not a junkie or mentally ill, she's gifted!--Momma Roxy

CHRISMOORHEAD

Friday, May 5, 2006 8:01 AM

Quote:
Secondly, we can damn well have sex with whomever, whenever, however often we want. Do I think we as a society take sex too casually? Yes. Do i think it should be regulated to only procreation? No. There is a respectable medium in there.

I don't ever recall saying that you couldn't, or that I thought you shouldn't. In fact, I recall implying the opposite, that these things are your rights and freedoms. The problem is that ovindulgence in them... well, scroll up. I wouldn't even vote against these things being "legal" because I think they're matters of SELF CONTROL. You don't NEED to have it, but I think you're going to lead the country into oblivion without it. Thanks for that, by the way.

As to the rape being a "violent crime" thing... my gosh, I remember hearing Adam Carolla and Dr. Drew blast this issue on Loveline. "Raping someone is just like if I hit you in the back of the head.. and them cummed.". Doesn't make sense, does it? If they were JUST looking for control, they'd find other ways of exerting it, but a man raping a woman has a hard on for a reason. I'm not saying the element of control isn't there, but to suggest that the act is totally devoid of sexual impulsion is just ignorant.

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, May 5, 2006 8:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
Do I know any rape victims? One too many, I'm afraid, to the point I really believe at least 1/10th of women who claim to be raped these days are lying.

Now, on to the meat an potatoes. In true female fashion, you completely took what I said out of context by letting your emotions speak instead of your brain (big surprise there...). Now, for the TRUE meaning, I do not believe that anyone "deserves" to be raped or that they "invite" rape. That being the ideal, here's the reality: Men DO rape, and they DO rape selectively. More on that in a minute. IN response to the reality of the situation, you have a choice: Accept it, and react accordingly, or ignore it and be at greater risk for the consequences.

Now, back to the selective raping issue. Yes, if you're showing more skin, or more curvature, men are more attracted to you. Admit it, that's the reason you do it in the first place. Now, a man who would rape and a man who wouldn't are two different creatures, IE: If he's the type that would rape a woman, he's going to do it given the opportunity and situation, if he's not, then no opportunity presented could make him. What makes women more of a likely target for the former is things that make them stand out. Skin, tight clothes, etc., and of course to varying degrees. Trust me, this is how the mind of a man works. Tattoo on the lower back? They call it the "tramp stamp". Mouth piercing? "Enter Here" sign. I don't LIKE these things anymore than you, but it is the sad condition of our reality.

You are all kinds of wrong for all kinds of reasons. You are not only showing the red flags of a true sexist, you are also speaking from a place of ignorance.
1) There is a vast percentage of women who never admit to being raped, because they think it is their fault. How do I know? The phrase "I've never told anyone this before" is a pretty big hint. Saying that you don't believe they're all telling the truth speaks of your own insensitivity and also counters your own statement about accepting reality and acting accordingly.
2) Women of all shapes, sizes, and dress codes are raped. Every day. It's brushed off or ignored far too often. Too many people say it's because of this that or the other, be it how a woman was dressed or the fact that she went to a bar. It is not a topic that should be treated that way. It is not only a thing driven by lust, but power. More power than anything else. If it was only lusting after the body it might be simpler than it is, but it's also lust for power and domination, and any victim will do.
3) Yes, I'm going to respond from emotions on an emotional topic. But I also have a brain and I have applied it to this situation because it is emotional for me. I have seen too many scars to ignore it, and I think it should stop, therefore I apply my brain. Don't belittle me for having emotions about something you're obviously cold about.
4) It has been proven that what makes women likely targets is how they behave. Women who act more timid, slouch, carry themselves like victims, they are the ones most likely to be attacked. The nature of the attack doesn't matter; from muggers to rapists, they are all predators and they look for weak prey. A pierced, tattooed, sexy woman wearing nothing but leather probably won't draw the average attacker if she's also riding a motorcycle and wearing brass knuckles. She's not an easy mark. A woman wearing a sweater and no makeup who takes tiny little steps, slouches, and looks around her constantly in fear is more likely to be attacked.
Caution is of course advisable. Don't take drinks from strangers, don't go home with strangers, don't walk down dark alleys at night, etc. A lot of avoiding attack is just fon du la, the art of not being there. If you put yourself in a bad situation, bad things might happen. Doesn't matter what you're wearing. Being too timid and modest can get you into more trouble that being attractive.
I like to think I'm attractive, and I have no problems with my bod

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, May 5, 2006 8:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wildigstart:
What the hell?

Two things...first, speaking as someone that has been there: clothes have nothing to do with rape. It's a violent assault. It has nothing to do with sex. It's all about power.

Secondly, we can damn well have sex with whomever, whenever, however often we want. Do I think we as a society take sex too casually? Yes. Do i think it should be regulated to only procreation? No. There is a respectable medium in there.

Yes, what she said.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

EMMARIGBY

Friday, May 5, 2006 8:23 AM

Oh dear, I was enjoying this thread! A little light hearted banter about the differences between the sexes. Now I find it's been taken over by a very scary man who's ideas are drastically opposed to my own world view! His rather angry posts have left me thinking that he would prefer all women to stay at home and cover themselves with burlap! (Yes, I know that's not what he actually said but it is definately the impression he left me with!)

Since this is not the sort of person I would choose to spend time with, I'm ofski! See all of you guys in a week when I get back!

RHYIANAN

Friday, May 5, 2006 8:24 AM

Chris: Yes, I do mean that I psychologically feel better while dressing in a way that flatters my figure. Considering that I have never had anyone attracted to me because of how I dress (i.e. no guys checking me out, nobody hitting on me) I highly doubt that the way I feel is connected to the nonexistant attention I recieve (although I'm sure you'll disagree).
Also, it is possible to dress modestly and still wear clothes that compliment my body (which is probably why I've never experienced any attention).

As for the rape thing, contrary to popular belief, rape is not usually about the sex, it's about the power. The rapist wants to feel powerful by taking advantage of someone weaker. I agree that a woman has to be careful, but the way someone dresses is not entirely the reason the victim is selected.

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, May 5, 2006 8:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
I don't ever recall saying that you couldn't, or that I thought you shouldn't. In fact, I recall implying the opposite, that these things are your rights and freedoms. The problem is that ovindulgence in them... well, scroll up. I wouldn't even vote against these things being "legal" because I think they're matters of SELF CONTROL. You don't NEED to have it, but I think you're going to lead the country into oblivion without it. Thanks for that, by the way.

As to the rape being a "violent crime" thing... my gosh, I remember hearing Adam Carolla and Dr. Drew blast this issue on Loveline. "Raping someone is just like if I hit you in the back of the head.. and them cummed.". Doesn't make sense, does it? If they were JUST looking for control, they'd find other ways of exerting it, but a man raping a woman has a hard on for a reason. I'm not saying the element of control isn't there, but to suggest that the act is totally devoid of sexual impulsion is just ignorant.

Considering yu've deeply offended several women here, maybe you should carefully examine what you said before you say "I didn't say that".
And for the record, Dr Drew is a dumbass and Adam Carolla is even moreso. Their show is more entertainment than substance. While Dr Drew is a doctor and knows what he's talking about medically, he really doesn't know much about sex or psychology. He has given so many wrong answers and wrong information when it comes to orgasms, bisexuality, and motivation that I'm amazed anyone would take him seriously.
A rapist has a hard-on for a reason, huh? Never occured to you that people like that are aroused by violence, now did it? Of course there are other ways to be powerful and dominant, but are any of them so effective? No other violence can scar a person's soul the way I've seen rape do. It is power, it is the ultimate violation, and it is violence. Those people are sick in the head and what someone wears does not affect their disease.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, May 5, 2006 8:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EmmaRigby:
Oh dear, I was enjoying this thread! A little light hearted banter about the differences between the sexes. Now I find it's been taken over by a very scary man who's ideas are drastically opposed to my own world view! His rather angry posts have left me thinking that he would prefer all women to stay at home and cover themselves with burlap! (Yes, I know that's not what he actually said but it is definately the impression he left me with!)

Since this is not the sort of person I would choose to spend time with, I'm ofski! See all of you guys in a week when I get back!

You have a good point and are a very wise woman. I've probably said all I could on the subject and it's all going over his head anyway so perhaps I should be offski as well.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

MANWITHPEZ

Friday, May 5, 2006 8:42 AM

For the record, I don't get the "Uncut Version" of a movie for more tits and ass. Granted, more often than not its in there, but such is not always the case.

Plus, I happen to like tits and ass!

For an example, how about the uncut version of The 40 Year Old Virgin. There were 17, I believe minutes of extra footage in the movie. It can't all be tits and ass. It just seems that lately, the words "Uncut" are synomynous with "Director's Cut" if your movie happened to be a bawdy comedy.

Also: See paragraph 2.

Edit: Oh dear...having read some more of what's going on here, I'll return and throw some more in.

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

AERIN

Friday, May 5, 2006 9:09 AM

Tristan, you created an excellent thread, and I'll keep my eye out for any others you start. Although I was initially eager to add my questions/comments, I think I'm going to join the other ladies and go elsewhere. Call it my way of ignoring a troll who says women get raped because they ask for it.

CHRISMOORHEAD

Friday, May 5, 2006 9:09 AM

So many things to address. Of course there would be, you don’t take something sensitive like this, approach it insensitively, and expect it not to result in heated discussion.

But in a nutshell, and to no one in particular, I make these points:

1) I am more than willing accept that clothes are not the only, and not even the major, factor in a woman getting raped. It is however a contributor to the fact, and the women that I do know who were raped were liberally outfitted on those occurrences. It is in a great deal relative to their attitudes at the time as well, IE: Dress slutty, act slutty, but men see with their eyes, and the first thing they’ll go after is what APPEARS to be easy.

The girl in Aruba. Known by friend and family to be the exact opposite of “timid” and “modest”. So un-timid and un-modest that she didn’t mind going home with a group of strangers. Yes, she put herself in a bad situation. Rewind to earlier that evening. See it from the group of guy’s perspective. “Hot blonde on Spring Break wearing tight clothes. Easy mark.”. The first rule of war is to know thine enemy. See things from his perspective.

2) My personal feelings of the issue, that women lie about being raped, were not factored anywhere into my argument of why they are raped. Maybe because I have the good sense to separate what I see from what I think.

3) I will re-itterate my intolerance for rapists just one more time. I AM PUTTING THIS IN BOLD SO THAT ANYONE WHO MISQUOTES ME AS SAYING "WOMEN DESERVE TO BE RAPED" WILL BE PROPERLY IDENTIFIED AS EITHER PARTIALLY BLIND OR COMPLETLEY RETARDED. I do not brush off any rapes with comments like “She had it coming”, nor would even the most conservative of my friends. I have never ONCE seen a rape “brushed off” by anyone, I have ALWAYS seen it treated with the utmost care and concern even when factual evidence was lacking.

Case in point: The lacrosse team vs. the stripper. National example: Women DO lie about it. Even if she wasn’t this time, she definitely had in the past (I’m not assuming, either, do some freggin research and look it up.). This does no excuse anyone doing it to her again in the future, but with all of this in mind: STOP ACTING LIKE THE WORLD OWES YOUR GENDER PITY.

4) I’ve already addressed the rape being about power issue. Nothing anyone has said addresses why someone would choose sex over any number of other ways to exert power. Kidnapping, torturing, chaining, binding… these things are about power. Raping no doubt has power involved in it, but I will re-itterate that anyone who thinks it’s totally devoid of sexual impulsion is plain ignorant. If there weren’t sexual impulsion involved, it would not be acted out sexually. If it was, there’d be a whole lot more guys fucking each other in the ass instead of beating the crap out of one another to prove dominance.

5) I’m an admitted sexist. But only because of the attitude that women take these days. Like every other minority, they seem to think that theirs are the truly important issues of the time, that as victims of rape they should be pitied and left un-offended by all. Screw that, you’re human and you’re going to be subject to the same abuse as everyone else. Men get raped in prison all the time. Don’t see too many articles about that, do you? No, actually, I seem to recall more jokes about it than anything else. In short: Get over yourselves. Bad shit happens to everyone.

VINTERDRAKEN

Friday, May 5, 2006 9:50 AM

Never worn a bra, so cant really argue against you. Can just reaccount for what she said when we had that discussion.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

MANWITHPEZ

Friday, May 5, 2006 10:42 AM

QUOTE: 5) I’m an admitted sexist. But only because of the attitude that women take these days. Like every other minority, they seem to think that theirs are the truly important issues of the time, that as victims of rape they should be pitied and left un-offended by all. Screw that, you’re human and you’re going to be subject to the same abuse as everyone else. Men get raped in prison all the time. Don’t see too many articles about that, do you? No, actually, I seem to recall more jokes about it than anything else. In short: Get over yourselves. Bad shit happens to everyone. END QUOTE

Okay, okay, okay...I've been reading this for some time, and I think it's time to say something. Are you honestly...HONESTLY telling rape victims to "get over yourselves"? Yes, bad shit happens to everyone, but...come on...I'd say if it's rape, it's pretty fucking bad.

Rape is a form of assault. But, there's so much more involved than the beating of an individual physically. I'm not saying that the psychological effects of assault and rape are that far removed from each other. Powerlessness and self worth issues abound. But, when you're beaten, you heal, and you move on. It is not the kind of thing that sticks in your head and rebounds. I imagine if you looked at the suicide statistics for people post these crimes, you'd see that rape victims are much more succeptible.

I understand that men get raped in prison all the time. Are you telling me that crimes of social interaction amongst convicts locked away from civilization compare? Not only are you generalizing women in this mess, but men as well. Rapists rape. Real men do not. So, before you post something saying that "Men rape" ...think. And, I don't seem to see a whole lot of that going on here.

This was a fun thread. It's no longer. Yes, women lie about being raped sometimes. However, rapists lie about raping a whole lot more, I'd wager.

You have your world view, and I can tell it's not going to be changed. That's your business, of course, but, some of the things you've been saying are toxic, in the extreme, and unnecessary.

I'll be back when I've calmed down a bit.

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

SPOOTY

Friday, May 5, 2006 10:48 AM

ok

Why do the majority of women all seem to pick up on and prefer good traits like intelligence, attitude and personality (even when attributed to a handsome male) yet always choose the complete knuckle-head loser that treats you like a pile of go-se?

NUCLEARDAY

Friday, May 5, 2006 10:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wildigstart:
back on topic...Men, why do you always rent the 'Uncut Version' of a move? It's not the director's cut or a some artsy re-edit...it's just tits and ass. Does it rally make the movie better?

Do tits and ass really make a movie better??? How could it not??? :) It's not like I'll see a movie just because of the T&A (oh, wait: yes, yes I will...) Well, it's not like I won't see a movie because it doesn't... But a little extra for the menfolk is just icing on the cake if it's a good movie. (And as good a reason as any to see a bad one.) And I'm comfortable enough with my manhood that I'm not opposed to some man-butt or something in a movie, for the ladies.

@the topic of our culture being too free with sex: Addiction, and too much of anything is generally bad. Same with sex. Me: I don't do the casual sex thing, people who know me in RL are sometimes suprised by that, as I come off a bit free-spirited. But someone else's choice is no business of mine. (And I have my share of fetishes and kinks as well.)

My problem is the idea that sex or the human form is supposed to be something dirty, or shameful. I don't hold much to the idea that sex should be just for procreation, either. Alot of my hangups earlier in life, and the cause of much drama in my relationships, was me getting used to the idea that sex isn't quite the terribly big deal everyone makes it out to be. (Let's just say that I can really relate to what'shisname from Jaynestown :) Anyways, I'm writing this after a long day of work, so maybe that all doesn't make sense, and I'll stop before I start writing a whole novel here :P

Also, let me just say, that while I think sex isn't that big a deal: there's still the matter of responsibility, respect, and the addendum that it really should only involve two (or more) relatively mature and consenting adults. After that, though... frell, have fun!

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. (Or if Kaylee asks me nicely...)

MAMASAID

Friday, May 5, 2006 11:07 AM

I am smart, and I would find a guy smarter than me unattractive not because he is a nerd or anything, but I wouldn't want stiff competition in life. Have been that way for a while...

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, May 5, 2006 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by nuclearday:
Addiction, and too much of anything is generally bad. Same with sex. Me: I don't do the casual sex thing, people who know me in RL are sometimes suprised by that, as I come off a bit free-spirited. But someone else's choice is no business of mine. (And I have my share of fetishes and kinks as well.)

My problem is the idea that sex or the human form is supposed to be something dirty, or shameful. I don't hold much to the idea that sex should be just for procreation, either. Alot of my hangups earlier in life, and the cause of much drama in my relationships, was me getting used to the idea that sex isn't quite the terribly big deal everyone makes it out to be. (Let's just say that I can really relate to what'shitname from Jaynestown :) Anyways, I'm writing this after a long day of work, so maybe that all doesn't make sense, and I'll stop before I start writing a whole novel here :P

Also, let me just say, that while I think sex isn't that big a deal: there's still the matter of responsibility, respect, and the addendum that it really should only involve two (or more) relatively mature and consenting adults. After that, though... frell, have fun!

You sum up my views rather well. Though I do think sex is a deal, just not in the uptight way. Rather, I think it should be special. Is special. And fun. Hence, yeah, casual sex is for no. It's funny, people tend to be surprised at me having that attitude as well. And if they don't know me well, they tend to forget. When did "open minded and free spirited" become the same as "I will jump anything that's willing"?

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

MAMASAID

Friday, May 5, 2006 11:25 AM

I do agree that people dismiss the sexual aspect of rape out of hand and attribute it to power. It's mostly a power issue, but sex is involved. And I think Chris' estimation of 1/10 of women claiming, etc. is too high. Women would never like to admit being raped.

And I think a differentiation between strager rape and acquantance rape would be in order, as they often have different motives. The latter is definitely more common, around 82% of rape cases.

Also, I will disagree with Chris about the skank factor: its usually modest girls raped, even acquaintace rape. I took rape counseling training and we heard all the stats. To be sure, you can also take stats with a grain of salt.

Also, we as a people do need to have a better sense of humor about things. Yes, it takes healing time to get over a rape: psychaitrist, family conversations. All fine. But, eventually that comes to an end. I had a life threatening disease as a teen and will probably have a relaspe be the time I'm 30 with the medication i'm on. But hey, cancer can be funny damnit. If I took myself too seriously, life would suck. I think everything is open for parody. I like the south park thing: "its been 21.3 years! AIDS is finally funny!"

SUNSHINEGAL

Friday, May 5, 2006 12:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by manwithpez:
QUOTE: 5) I’m an admitted sexist. But only because of the attitude that women take these days. Like every other minority, they seem to think that theirs are the truly important issues of the time, that as victims of rape they should be pitied and left un-offended by all. Screw that, you’re human and you’re going to be subject to the same abuse as everyone else. Men get raped in prison all the time. Don’t see too many articles about that, do you? No, actually, I seem to recall more jokes about it than anything else. In short: Get over yourselves. Bad shit happens to everyone. END QUOTE

Okay, okay, okay...I've been reading this for some time, and I think it's time to say something. Are you honestly...HONESTLY telling rape victims to "get over yourselves"? Yes, bad shit happens to everyone, but...come on...I'd say if it's rape, it's pretty fucking bad.

Rape is a form of assault. But, there's so much more involved than the beating of an individual physically. I'm not saying that the psychological effects of assault and rape are that far removed from each other. Powerlessness and self worth issues abound. But, when you're beaten, you heal, and you move on. It is not the kind of thing that sticks in your head and rebounds. I imagine if you looked at the suicide statistics for people post these crimes, you'd see that rape victims are much more succeptible.

I understand that men get raped in prison all the time. Are you telling me that crimes of social interaction amongst convicts locked away from civilization compare? Not only are you generalizing women in this mess, but men as well. Rapists rape. Real men do not. So, before you post something saying that "Men rape" ...think. And, I don't seem to see a whole lot of that going on here.

This was a fun thread. It's no longer. Yes, women lie about being raped sometimes. However, rapists lie about raping a whole lot more, I'd wager.

You have your world view, and I can tell it's not going to be changed. That's your business, of course, but, some of the things you've been saying are toxic, in the extreme, and unnecessary.

I'll be back when I've calmed down a bit.

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

SUNSHINEGAL

Friday, May 5, 2006 12:47 PM

Last time I checked one can avoid being put in the situation of imprisonment. Usually by NOT committing the CRIME that landed them there in the first place! You compare that to the rape of a woman walking home from work/school etc.?
Admitted sexist? Sounds, to me, more like and unacknowledged rapest in the making.

I call her Vera.

DEEPGIRL187

Friday, May 5, 2006 12:51 PM

Wuh de tyen, ah!

What happened here? The last time I checked this thread, everything was so peaceful.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

EMMARIGBY

Friday, May 5, 2006 1:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Wuh de tyen, ah!

What happened here? The last time I checked this thread, everything was so peaceful.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

Sssh! Be very very quiet! We're all hiding from the bad man!

TRISTAN

Friday, May 5, 2006 1:11 PM

To all, I apologize. I started this thread with the intention of light banter and better understanding, and it gets hi-jacked. That'll teach me to go to bed and leave a thread alone.

I may try to start something else like this again, but we'll see.

I enjoyed all the insights posted, and have learned a few things.

Thank you all.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

PERSEPHONE736

Friday, May 5, 2006 1:22 PM

I was enjoying reading the posts too. Nice thread Tristan (up until the take-over of course)!

Link to current Firefly Fit Club weekly thread:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=11&t=20301
Link to original Firefly Fit Club thread:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=18971

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