Male and Female Imponderables the Fifth

POSTED BY: Tristan
UPDATED: Sunday, May 28, 2006 11:01
VIEWED: 20430
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TRISTAN

Monday, May 22, 2006 1:17 PM

These posts seem to take on a life all their own! It's good to see so many posting.

Enjoy!

Holding until you get back, Captain.

TRISTAN

Monday, May 22, 2006 1:33 PM

Seems like I missed the bit about the kissing. I tend to lean to the right for the initial contact, but I do like to switch up a little. Keeps it entertaining, and I love bumping noses
Technique...I generally like the "patred lips" kisses; not the "shove your tongue down the throat", but light little licks and especially nibbles. I am a firm believer that a good session of kissing, without any other "serious" contact, can be as good or better than foreplay. Don't get me wrong, I never say no to foreplay, just sayin' that kissing can be incredibly passionate.

Alright...as I have been missing a few days, I need to get caught up on some other stuff...but I shall return!

Thank you for your patience in starting the new thread.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

VINTERDRAKEN

Monday, May 22, 2006 1:46 PM

Personally I find that kissing is a big part of foreplay, depends alot on what you read into the word though.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

MAL4PREZ

Monday, May 22, 2006 1:49 PM

I definitely lean right. For kissing, not for politics!!

OK, here's my new question for the new thread, even though I have a wicked busy day and may not be bale to check in for a while ....

Where's all the gay people?? I'm wondering about the show's appeal/nonappeal to the queer community, because my two best friends in the world are gay, one man, one woman. And I've tried to get both of them into Firefly - no luck! I feel like they should love the show - of course I do - but not so.

So I'm just curious, and a few folks on this thread have made sly-ish comments... are there really so few gay people here?

Any thoughts?

m4p

ps - I will comment that I was in no rush to show War Stories to my lesbian friend, (even though she thinks Inara is gorgeous) because that F/F scene seems like it's out to titilliate the boys as much as anything. Judging from Jayne's reaction!! I think one needs to be schooled in Whedonism to see that there's a little more to it. ie it makes fun of Jayne.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

VINTERDRAKEN

Monday, May 22, 2006 2:29 PM

Have a friend who likes Firefly here in town who is bisexuall, doesnt hang on the forum though. Dont think there are less gay people here then any other group though.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Monday, May 22, 2006 2:35 PM

My son is gay. He is a fan, though not as obsessed as me.

He is graduating this week from High School - so that may be why is focus is else wear.

Both my boys are fans and sport a browncoat shirt!

VINTERDRAKEN

Monday, May 22, 2006 5:42 PM

Got a pondering of my own here. How to pick up on those invisible signals? How do you flirt and how do you know how to flirt. Myself Im pretty decent at noticing when other people are interested in each other, but Im about as perceptive as Mal when it comes to noticing when someone Im actually interested in shows an interest. To the flirtatious part of the pondering I can say that I could probebly be called a decently flirty person. I like being nice to people, usually with no intent to actually flirt. When I actually like someone however I try to get close to the person, make her feel comfertable and If possible have alot of physical contact, pretty long procese usually but it tends to work for me. How about you other folks out there?

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

NUCLEARDAY

Monday, May 22, 2006 6:18 PM

Wish I could help, Vinterdraken, but I'm totally clueless about picking up on the clues as well. :) Alot of the time when I think I'm just exchanging witty banter, I'll find out after the fact that we were really in the process of flirting.

Come to think of it, that's what's happened with most of my girlfriends. Generally it'll be going on for months without me knowing at all. I don't think I've ever actually initiated a relationship on my own even.

My current GF, she eventually got fed up with waiting for me to pick up on the signals and asked if I wanted to hang out one day. I think even then it didn't hit me that it was a "date" until my sister was talking to me about it. :)

Anyways, hey, thread number five! I think we're officially an institution, now :P

________________________________________________
You can take my Browncoat when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. (Or if Kaylee asks me nicely...)

NVGHOSTRIDER

Monday, May 22, 2006 6:20 PM

When the chance arises, flirt as much as possible! Although I do prefer stimulating conversation. I used to feel guilty about flirting, seeing it as a sexual prelude, but that whole thing about making the other person comfortable with you is right on. I feel it to be one of the greatest feelings in the world to have that comfort with a woman and not HAVE to sleep with her, (plus it keeps me out of trouble)

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Monday, May 22, 2006 7:00 PM

I am a flirt. Its just the way I interact with men. I do not do it as a precusor to sexual activity. It can just be about being funny or charming and making someones day. I also find that it makes co-workers/work partners easier to deal with.

I find that the "just friendly flirting" is slighty different then the "I am interested" kind. There is a subtle difference. People who are interested tend to "go there". Meaning they make more suggestive comments than those that are just being friendly. I can't really explain it.

But flirting is good for you!

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

MSCKAREN

Monday, May 22, 2006 8:19 PM

Been away for a while so I'll just try to jump in again...

I have many wonderful male gay friends but none of them are SF oriented. I think SF folk are generally more open to different lifestyles but I haven't seen a large gay following for the genre.

Kissing: I tend to go to the right. A man's skills at this are very important to me and they have to at least show potential for me to go further with them. It's fun to practice, anyway!

Flirting: I agree there is a difference between friendly flirting and the serious stuff. Eye contact is the first step - holding a gaze just a little longer than "normal" and then smiling are BIG hints. If the person brings up sex in a serious way, then they are looking for something more than "friendly"...simple...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've cancelled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."
http://karenallover.blogspot.com/

VINTERDRAKEN

Monday, May 22, 2006 9:23 PM

Can say one thing the gay community in Sweden (atleast the ones I know in sweden) think is great with Scifi, namely slashes. Have a gay friend who wrote a university thesis on Kirk/Spock slash stories. They dont take them very seriously though, treat em more like a cultural heritage that kinda lost its meaning down the road.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

PHOENIXROSE

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 7:55 AM

I agree with Tristan on the kissing technique. And the passionate part. If there's no kissing in foreplay, I just don't get into it at all. I don't think kissing always has to lead somewhere else, mind, but it certainly can and sometimes it should
I am bi. Not gay, I've actually dated mostly men, but there's more than just a few reasons River and Zoe are my favorite characters
My most recent convert is also bi. She's been about equal in the dating pool between men and women, but she's a bit older than me (age seems to bring people out of the closet, hence more dating oportunities.)
I'm sure we've discussed signs in flirting before, I'll try to remember some of the wise pearls I had before... Uh, solid eye contact tends to be a big indicator. My eyes kinda wander when I'm not totally interested in the person I'm talking to. There are several reasons for this. For one thing, when someone is interesting and attractive, I kinda stare enraptured at them. If they aren't so much, I get distracted easier, plus there is the part of me figuring "Maybe if I act uninterested enough, they'll eventually give up and stop talking to me." since I usually can't bring myself to just meanly say "You're boring the hell out of me/I'm really not at all interested in you, go away!" Touch is a big indicator. If someone offers to rub your shoulders, they are intersted in you. At least, certainly if the person is me. I also smile a whole lot, with eye contact. Alternately, if I smile/laugh while avoiding someone's eyes, it's because I'm uncomfortable. And if I at any point say "You know, that's always been a real turn-on for me." or something similar, that's kinda my subtle way of saying "Hey, that means you should try it on me at some point..."
Most of my friends have told me I'm overly obvious when showing my interest, but there have still been a few people who kinda miss it, so I'm inclined to say I'm not quite obvious enough, they just think that because they know me.
And friendly flirting is very different. It's usually just to make someone feel better, such as "Oh, you know you're a gorgeous sex goddess!" etc. Friendly flirting is actually usually more over-the-top than serious flirting, I'm not sure why. Maybe becuase you can be more brash when you know it's not going to go anywhere. That's just my take.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

MERCURY002

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 1:17 PM

ahh hang on what ... wow this is fast

Simon:"If the battle was so horrible, why did he name the ship after it?"
Zoe:"Once you've been in serenity you never leave"

MERCURY002

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 1:31 PM

Ok well i agree with nuke day about flirting, im like a brick wall its bad. I dont feel comfortable flirting i feel like im lying, im really bad at lying everybody can tell when i am.

Simon:"If the battle was so horrible, why did he name the ship after it?"
Zoe:"Once you've been in serenity you never leave"

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 1:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Vinterdraken:
Have a gay friend who wrote a university thesis on Kirk/Spock slash stories.

OMG! That is too great!!

My frustration is that when I show an episode or two of FF or Buffy to my gay friends, they tend to not see how genious Joss is about making fun of gender stereotypes, and gay stereotypes. They really see tough guys and pretty women, and, well, Zoe can fight and Simon's kinda gayboy cute and that's nice but let's watch something else now...

have to give an example: Kaylee's reaction to Mal being married (the gasp of delight) just KILLS me because it's so making fun of that exact reaction. And Buffy's Something Blue episode making fun of newlyweds.

Anyway, didn't mean to get rantish.

Flirting: not good at it. I try, it's ugly. My favorite flirting method is to run into a guy playing hockey.

As far as talking/flirting, I have to just be myself and let the chips fall where they may.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

TRISTAN

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 2:14 PM

Sorry, all, have not been able to play lately; Real Life is giving me a hard time...work sucks! I am hoping to be back solid in a few days, but I can bounce in here every now and then today...

I do not have any input into the gay sci-fi fan base. Most of the people I have known that were gay were either in the music or drama departments...we never really discussed sci-fi.
I am going to ask a stupid question that I probably know the answer to already...define "slash"?

Holding until you get back, Captain.

DEEPGIRL187

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 2:35 PM

"Slash" fan fictions are stories that center around a male/male pairing or a female/female pairing. Though I tend to find any of the male Firefly characters paired together slightly creepifying, many of the female slash stories are pretty good.

**************************************************

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

TRISTAN

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 2:39 PM

Ah, thought so...I am not familiar with the "slash" designation, though.
Thank you for enlightening me.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

NVGHOSTRIDER

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:32 PM

I hear you on the whole job crap. Not to mention the continuing saga of what personal life I try to salvage from day to day. Back to the Impnderables. True or False. Women tend to keep at least one guy friend around in order to fulfill the emotional hole their men cannot fill. I have my own opinions, but I'd like to hear what all you SHINY folks in the 'verse have to say.

MERCURY002

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:40 PM

did you know that cows can sleep standing but they only dream when they are lying on the floor

Simon:"If the battle was so horrible, why did he name the ship after it?"
Zoe:"Once you've been in serenity you never leave"

TRISTAN

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:49 PM

Consider me lying on the floor then...dreaming of a world without work...maybe aboard Serenity, taking the jobs as they come...
And, we wake up back in reality.

I am not a female, but I have been the "emotional hole-filler" (not how it sounds, honest). I was a really close friend to someone I found attractive and they found me attractive, but we did not desire to destory the friendship by going physical. We were there for each other, as I had dry spells, too. It was actually a nice relationship; neither expected anything from the other but an ear and a shoulder.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 5:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
True or False. Women tend to keep at least one guy friend around in order to fulfill the emotional hole their men cannot fill. I have my own opinions, but I'd like to hear what all you SHINY folks in the 'verse have to say.

I have friends I like being around, male and female, and their friendship is a good thing that I need, whether I'm in a romantic relationship or not. It's not like I "keep" a token guy friend for anything. Ick!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

SHEPHERD2BE

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 5:18 PM

As someone with a bevy of female friends I've always preferred the term "emotion fluffer".

Send lawyers, guns and money

NVGHOSTRIDER

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 5:23 PM

Emotion Fluffer! Love it. Now lets see if Websters will accept it. Why not, they took jiggy didn't they?

ZAMIAM

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 5:42 PM

Imponderables...I like it.

I have one for all you lovely people: What kind of terms do you keep with your exes / do you believe is most healthy to keep with your exes?

When I broke up with my boyfriend of two years, he was my best (and nearly my only for a while) friend, and I couldn't imagine not being on friendly, close terms with him. Breaking up was awful, but after a short while without talking we had a good relationship as friends, if questionably close friends.

Four months later (sooner than I would have liked, but crazy things happen) I met a great guy and we have now been together for two months. He is incredibly understanding and supportive of my relationship with my ex, but things with my ex and I have been increasingly bad. He feels replaced and alone, and talking to him only makes me feel guilty.

People warned me that it's better to just seperate yourself completely from your ex, but I don't let people go easily, and I can't stand the thought of no longer knowing this person I was once so close too. At the same time, I'm starting to think maybe it's better to just remember the good times I had with him and cut it off. But I'd like to still try to make it work.

Any one with similar problems or advice-ful type thoughts?

Sorry if this has been discussed, I kind of missed the first four of these...

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I am a leaf on the wind.

SHEPHERD2BE

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:08 PM

I think it just barely won out over fo'schizzle.

As far as the flip side of the question at hand, I'd say I never kept my friends, female or otherwise, as "token" anything.

Friendships are based on mutual likes and dislikes. Not a required demographic slot that needs to be filled.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Send lawyers, guns and money

TRISTAN

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:13 PM

It is difficult to keep ex-lovers as friends, but not immpossible. For example, I do not think I could be in the same room with my ex-wife, and we divorced a good four years ago. However, I am still very good friends with some "serious" relationships from college. I think there is a required "away" period of time, and then a slow re-building of feelings that needs to occur. Unless, of course, the break-up was amicable, in which case it should be alright. This may just be me, however...

Holding until you get back, Captain.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:22 PM

Sounds to me as if your ex is still harbouring some feelings for you.

You might need to step back a little bit more. It might just need a little more "adjustment time", or you may find that you can't continue the relationship anymore.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

NVGHOSTRIDER

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:29 PM

I think its great that you current guy is cool with the old one. A friend I had once stated that two men who have slept with the same woman can't ever be in the same room together. I'm sure that is true in many cases, but if your guy is okay with your old one, then maybe you made a good desicion. One quick note: Despite how you broke up, happiness is never something you should feel guilty about.

Wassup FMF.

TRISTAN

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:37 PM

Along those lines, I have to disagree that two men who have slept with the same woman cannot be in the same room. My wife's second ex is a really good friend of mine...as a matter of fact, when we are together, we end up joking about the fact that we are, in fact, friends. It's odd at times, and several people show surprise that we are friends, but I have a philosophy that friendship can surpass the ocassional "odd" moment...anyone else have a situation like this?

Holding until you get back, Captain.

NVGHOSTRIDER

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:55 PM

Did anyone ever see Paint Your Wagon? That was a running joke in my old circle. Also isn't it said somewhere that "An enemy of my enemy is my friend." ?

PHOENIXROSE

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:21 AM

I think friends in general are there to fill different, uh, emotional roles, if you're going to call it that. If a girl needs a "token" guy friend to fill needs she isn't getting with her man, she's with the wrong man, but there are sometimes things one must go to a friend with. I personally don't have many guy friends. I have in the past, but I don't right now. Things tend to get awkward for some reason or other. Actually, that happens among the women-folk, too. Not always something sexual, just life.
Anyway, in terms of exes and relating to them, I generally prefer not to. I've never had a relationship end amiably. Not sure what it is, maybe I have an intimidatin' manner, but men seem to think they need to kinda tiptoe around the issue and, well, pretty much be cowards. And liars. And I ain't friends with liars or cowards, not in general.
Here's an example; my most recent ex, who was my most serious relationship to date, at first just refused to talk to me for awhile. Then, after I had called him enough times and finally demanded to know what the hell was goin on, he wrote me a gorram e-mail. In this cowardly little e-mail, he first completely discounted our relationship, basically said there was nothing to it in the first place. Then he said we were still fine as friends. Well, um, no we weren't. There had been nothing wrong with the, shall we say, "romantic" part of our relationship, so obviously the problem was elsewhere. Plus he had just blown the "fine as friends" idea by making me lose respect for him. Also by betraying my trust. Way I see it, he was either lying through his teeth when he said he loved me or lying through his teeth when he said there was never anything to it. If he had been a man about it, just stood up and said "so this is what's happening with such-and-such right now so I really can't be in this relationship" and said it to my face, I might have retained some respect for him, but as it is I did not. I can't be friends with anyone I don't trust or respect, and certainly not when I have a proverbial elephant sitting in the room with us and him refusing to discuss it.
Anyway, I severe ties. Pretty much without exception. I've been friends with people I have feelings for, and I've been friends with people who have unknowingly kinda broken my heart. Really, that's not always been pleasant. Add the other go se to the mix and it just isn't someplace I want to be.
Side note-ish: I've had two exes now claim that they wanted to stay my friend because they really did value me, but when I've made it clear that they actually have to work at it; i.e. regaining some of my trust and resolving some of the issues caused by a breakup, they haven't been willing to put in the effort.
This is, of course, my personal experience. My mom is still good friends with her first husband (though not so much her second) and has been friends with others in the past who she was involved with. Of course I would have to say that it's a person-to-person issue. I just have yet to date someone who was willing or able to actually be a friend to me after they hurt me, and I know it doesn't always work that way.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

NUCLEARDAY

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 12:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
A friend I had once stated that two men who have slept with the same woman can't ever be in the same room together.

Might also depend on which cames first, the friendship, or the girl. I try and make a point to not act on it much, but I do have a slight jealousy streak in me when it comes to my girl and her male friends. (Generally not so much if it's going good, then more so if we start having problems. For the obvious reasons :)

I have had situations, though, where a girl has dated both myself and a good friend (at different times.) Sometimes awkward for the hanging out with the ex part, but I've found there's a long-standing, unspoken rule that you don't let your girl screw up your friendships.

________________________________________________
You can take my Browncoat when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. (Or if Kaylee asks me nicely...)

MERCURY002

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:21 PM

what if they both slept with here at the same time in the same room 3some :-0

Simon:"If the battle was so horrible, why did he name the ship after it?"
Zoe:"Once you've been in serenity you never leave"

TRISTAN

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:30 PM

You shouldn't let anyone screw up any relationship. However, it's time to poll the board with another question or two.
The first one is along the lines we have been following...is it hard to see either an ex or a crush with someone else? I don't mean in the "I was snubbed" way, but is it difficult to come to terms with the fact that they are in a sexual relationship with someone else?

Another question; new topic:
Thoughts on violence in the world; too much or it doesn't bother you? I don't mean war, or murder, or things like that, but more of the attitude towards violence in general. I am interested to see how this one breaks down between the sexes. I, myself, like the occasional violent movie; gunplay, swordplay, etc. I also practice weapon-play, and took martial arts classes as a child. This may have inured me to violence later in life. I am wondering if any of you who have never taken classes or studied fighting have the same attitude, or if you have studied, how you feel.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

PHOENIXROSE

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:39 PM

Yes. More so with a crush, since there's kind of a "What does she have that I don't?" feeling, but I also don't tend to like seeing/hearing about an ex being with someone else. Esspecially when (as has often but not always been the case) I look at them and say "This is my replacement? WTF?!"

I like action movies and such, but seeing actual violence kinda sickens me. I have a collection of weapons, I enjoy firing guns, and I hit a heavy bag on a regular basis, which I think is a fairly healthy way to release frustration and keep in some kind of shape. I have basically no formal training, though I've considered it. I love watching choreographed fights, but real fights don't tend to be quite so... pretty. I don't know if I actually answered there, I feel like I'm not all that clear. Anyway, that's my take.
Oh yes, and if anyone ever tried to kill me, I would certainly try to kill them right back.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:47 PM

My favorite movies are action SH*T blows up movies. So no problem there. And there are always a few people I want to punch.

I think our biggest problem (after education) is that we as a society have lost some of our manners. We are not as polite as we used to be. That becomes a problem in a large society, we also no longer expect people to take responsibility for their actions, rather we explain it away - THAT is not a good thing to teach our children.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

NUCLEARDAY

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 3:01 PM

I've never had an easy time seeing a crush or someone with someone else. Not like a earth-shattering sort of problem, but I can't say I've been all that gracious about that stuff in the past.

Come to think of it, that happened with my first real crush back in high school. I was way too shy to ask her out for years and doing the whole pining away in secret thing. By the time I worked up enough guts to write her a corny letter she was seeing some older fella who'd already graduated. Bad enough that I'd missed my chance by something like a day or two, even worse that it was an older kid I couldn't compete with.

Far as violence goes: I'm a pretty laid-back guy. No formal training or anything, I might be able to "survive" a stand-up fight, but I'd rather it not get that far. I'm a lover, not a fighter, and I wouldn't want to muss up my pretty face :P I love action movies and the like, though. Ditto video-games, the more gore the better. (I was a big fan of Grand Theft Auto, for instance.)

I agree with PheonixRose that I like watching choreographed fights more. Though some good martial-arts sparring and the like is good, too. Stuff like say, Ultimate Fighting and the like, while I enjoy watching people get beat up, just isn't as pretty to spectate unless you know what you're looking for, I think.

And I'll throw in another agreement with FMF, too. About politeness in our society. Likely solve alot of the too much violence problems if people would treat each other a little better. "Can't we all just get along?" :P

________________________________________________
You can take my Browncoat when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. (Or if Kaylee asks me nicely...)

EMMARIGBY

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 3:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
My favorite movies are action SH*T blows up movies. So no problem there. And there are always a few people I want to punch.

I also like a little mindless action every now and then. Rather more ofter than I fancy a chick flick if I'm honest.

Quote:
I think our biggest problem (after education) is that we as a society have lost some of our manners. We are not as polite as we used to be. That becomes a problem in a large society, we also no longer expect people to take responsibility for their actions, rather we explain it away - THAT is not a good thing to teach our children.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

I agree. I think that a lack of respect and empathy for other people is behind each and every crime in the world. I think Heinlein once said something like there is only one crime, treating people as things.

About the problem of exes dating, I had a different experience of that. My last boyfriend started secretly seeing another of my housemates (after I'd broken up with him) and I was by far the last to know as everyone had been keeping it quiet so as not to upset me. This just drove me mad! It was so condescending and stupid! I was actually really relieved he was going out with someone, made me feel less guilty for splitting up with him! By hiding it he just showed how little he knew or respected me!

NVGHOSTRIDER

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:40 PM

We love the crush. Oh, you don't mean orange crush. My bad. The whole idea of a crush kinda helps me get by from time to time. But a serious relationship from a crush is usually a bad idea.
The reason: Say it with me now, "Stalker".

On the violence issue. My whole life has been a crappy violent mess from the get go. In between I was lucky enough to have support from a few friends , some family, and an occasional stranger who would say something to help me find the center of myself again. Those people also taught me to forgive and love myself in spite of the things I did in the name of duty. One thing that people don't understand about violence in the media is that those actions repsesented are either artistic expression, accurate representation, or blatant ignorance. Tom Savini, one of the most respected make up effects artists in modern film, spent time in Vietnam as a medic. I believe I once heard him say that he wanted to accurately depict the effects of violence, but to also purge the things he had experienced. I can respect that fully. Its those Hollywood F's that do it in the name of profit that make me sick. People who have no regard for the health and well being of the people of this world are the ones that give true artists a bad name.

NVGHOSTRIDER

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:41 PM

Doubled up. Sorry. [Throws monitor] Stupid computer.

COPILOT

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:04 PM

So anyone have advice for someone who's about to become single again? I don't know how this works I'm only at the I hate the fing bastard and listening to Fiona Apple at high volumes stage. Also I havn't told him yet. But it's his own f**king fault. Sorry anger issues.

An I carried such a torch....For the Dark Lord

NVGHOSTRIDER

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:39 PM

A. Don't drive when in the playing loud angry music, hate the F'r stage.
B. Take time to appreciate you for who you are. He musta really screwed up.
C. Embrace the anger then let it go. That way you can deal with the task at hand. It is best to face Large issues in a small way and vice versa.
D. SMILE

TRISTAN

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:55 PM

Might want to tell him about it; sounds like he may not get the clues!
If this is a good decision, and the ending will make you happy, get it over with as soon as possible. That way, you will have more time for the recovery. Ghostrider has some excellent suggestions. Although I would probably go for something like Rammstein or Korn...much better rage music .
And, as always, we will be here if you need to vent. Hopefully, we "other" males will be able to defend ourselves and disavow the stupidity of this particular individual.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

COPILOT

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:06 PM

No you guys are just fine no worries. Just found out what I really mean to this particular individual is all. After four years apparently all I am is a drunk ugly whore to him. Good to know where I stand I guess. I'm still really angry so bear with me okay?

An I carried such a torch.......For the Dark Lord

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:10 PM

My advice, is stay angry. At least through it all. Its the only thing that is keeping me going through the nightmare of my marriage ending!

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:11 PM

OK NOW I will kill him for you!

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

NVGHOSTRIDER

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:13 PM

Rage music suggestions:
Static X - Wisconson Deathtrip
Offspring - Smash
Rage Against the Machine - Almost anything. C'mon, its RAGE music.

When coming back to reality:
Bob Marley - Legend (Although the original cuts of the songs are grittier and more heartfelt)
Sublime - Any of the funtime songs. I suggest Summertime and 40 ounces of freedom
And of course when in doubt stick some Jimi in your ear (Jimi Hendrix):)

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:18 PM

CoPilot let me know if there is anything I can do for you. I can carry implements of pain and drive a mean get-a-way car.

Here is my imponderable - I have no access to unmarried/unattached/heterosexual males.

I work from 7-4 Mon to Fri. I have an evening job from 5:30-11. My house is 40 miles away from my day job, and I work the second job 2-7 both weekend days!

So what do I do?

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

NVGHOSTRIDER

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:20 PM

Dang FMF, you're a machine. I really envy the guy that can keep up with you. Go trolling at your local grocery store. Look for the guy looking at travel magazines with a loaf of bread, PBJ, fresh fruit, and light beer. Be careful though, make sure he ain't too femanine. Or find the guy looking at the real hot rod mags (Ol' Skool Rods and The Horse). I tend to be in these sections and the guys around me seem to also be single with that dream of travel and adventure. Also try your local media store (Boarders,Tower). And of course anybody hanging around the Firely/Serenity area of the video store is fair game.

DAYVE

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Here is my imponderable - I have no access to unmarried/unattached/heterosexual males.

I work from 7-4 Mon to Fri. I have an evening job from 5:30-11. My house is 40 miles away from my day job, and I work the second job 2-7 both weekend days!

my question is, what would you do with one if you got him? seems like you would way too tired to entertain the guy anyway.... i mean holy snikees batman.... you work WAY too much....

all seriousness aside, i would say you need to take some "Me" time... get yourself out there and put that bright, shiny face where it can be appreciated.... i know those guys are around - i saw one yesterday... granted he was giving me a speeding ticket, but i'm pretty sure he was straight....

DAYVE

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:36 PM

& there's always the Personals... most alternative newspapers have em.... worth a shot and it might save some of your precious time.... (since you don't have much to spare)...

MERCURY002

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by copilot:
No you guys are just fine no worries. Just found out what I really mean to this particular individual is all. After four years apparently all I am is a drunk ugly whore to him. Good to know where I stand I guess. I'm still really angry so bear with me okay?

Try telling them what they mean to you, they may open up or have been having a bad day, still no excuse for that unless your mal.

As for violence i dont know what kinda fights that you guys have been in but some of the ones i have been in (few and little) look quite choreographed, with jumping dodging and counter attacks, i have had no formal training, neither have my freinds but the natural flow of a fight can be fast and pretty.

A few people are saying that they get angery, the last and only time i got angery was when i was seven (now 18) and it dosent affect me much i just get mildly annoyed.

A question about anger and fights ... has anyone been bullied, in my highschool our entire year was close, we made a sort of early student union full of comradeship, and all of the rugby team, football team and the big kids surrounded a small group of bullies early on and said if they didnt stop we would get the rest of the year and beat the living crap out of them and they never ever did it again, it was a fairly empty threat and wouldnt hurt them too much.

I know that this is a sensitive topic but most of you are older and have left schools and might free able to talk about it.

Simon:"If the battle was so horrible, why did he name the ship after it?"
Zoe:"Once you've been in serenity you never leave"

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:24 PM

NV and Dayve -

Thanks for the advice. I do need to have some "me" time. Anyone up for offing the bigamist ex? NO? Dang it! The insurance would come in handy!

I have to work, because he feels that after 19 years of marriage, the fact that I do not have a retirement account or pension is not his problem. Even though he was the one that wanted me home with the kids. And he doesn't think he should have to help me pay this house payment. So here I am. 41. No prospects.

As for all those lovely places to look - there aren't really any here. This is a tourist town, so there are a lot of crap tourist stores, an outlet mall and a walmart. The locals, well, not going there and the tourists are married or Gay.

Anyway, this too shall pass!

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

TAYEATRA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:57 PM

In response to the bullying thing...

I was picked on age 7-8 because I was too smart for my own good and a natural suck-up. The same girls then picked on me at high school aged 11.

After that I stopped acting smart and took on a generally 'disinterested'/'can't be arsed' persona. This is basically the equivalent of 'ignoring them'. I became very subdued and avoided large groups of people and I know it affected my self-confidence. It's still an issue I'm working to overcome but I recently found out that one of the girls that picked on me now has 2 kids, is pregnant and is getting divorced (she's 19). On the one hand I'm trying not to be petty and cruel about it but one small part of me is amused... does this make me a bad person?

I never reacted violently to anyone that picked on me but I did give someone a black eye for bullying a friend of mind... I guess I tend to stick up for others more than for myself.

*****
Taya
*****
I'm going to S3!!!
(*Insert hysterical celebration dance here*)

COPILOT

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:41 PM

My relationship is not fulfilling in the least so yes I do tend to keep one or two surrogate boyfriends around to make me feel special. It's not fair to the guys but they seem to gladly take on the job. Basically it comes down to hanging out with me watching chick flicks takeing me out on "dates" and telling me I'm beautiful. Wow that is a really sucky job! I should buy them something for their troubles. On occasion these relationships turn sexual but not that often. My relationship with Significant Other is severly screwed up! Sometimes I forget how much but typing that out made me relize how bad it really is.

An I carried such a torch.......For the Dark Lord

NUCLEARDAY

Thursday, May 25, 2006 12:49 AM

On bullying: Yeah, I was one of those geeky kids that got picked on in school time to time. (Oh wait, I'm still a geek :) I was mostly left alone once I got to high school, though. I realized that most of bullying is something of an act, and that both the bully and the victim have parts to play. Once I stepped out of my own role of playing the victim, the bullying pretty much stopped. ie, once I started standing up to them it stopped being as much fun. Never got in any fights over it or anything, just found that it's not as fun to bully someone who doesn't act frightened and squirmy. Still, there's always some ass-hat out there that just wants to mess with people...

Oh, and hugs for FMF and Copilot. Us menfolk aren't all walking piles of go-se, but I think some of us never got the memo... :P

________________________________________________
You can take my Browncoat when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. (Or if Kaylee asks me nicely...)

SOULQUAKE

Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:09 AM

I was never bullied - but left in the corner sort of? You know, last picked. It was that way until my sophmore year of high school.

Dealing with anger - loud music and a notebook! Write out the storm - seriously, it's amazing how much of a difference it can make. Not only are you getting the stuff out of your head and onto paper, but the physical act of writing is a release as well. Screaming in a pillow is good as well ;)
I used to deal with anger in a very... unhealthy way. But these are some things that work for me. And if you need it, a good cry never hurt anyone.

Hang in there FMF - you've got tons of support!

---
"Sun came out, and I walked on my feet and heard with my ears. I ate the bits, the bits stayed down, and I work. I function like I'm a girl. I hate it because I know it'll go away."

VINTERDRAKEN

Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:08 AM

Wow, lots and lots of things to reply to. Didnt think I had been gone so long ;)
Ok, first off.
Violence. Generally real violence is bad, got into my fair share of scraps when I was little and learnt the ugly side of violence pretty fast, also I have berserker blood in me, dont know if you get what I mean, its a icelandic thing. (the expression I mean).
Violence on TV can be fun, depending on what it is. Dont like violent sports much but the occasional action movie is great (also, im a big fan of horror movies).

Then to the Ex question. Ive tried to stay friends with some of my exes, but usually it results in either we grow apart or we get into a fight and stop being friends. Dont think its impossible to be friends with a ex though, just hard at times. And I can say that my brother and a friend of mine have both slept with the same women (although at very different times) and they have no problem spending time together or talking about it so I dont think thats a male thing, more of a person thing.

And to answer Mercury002´s question,
Yes ive been bullied. I actually to the point that it broke me completely and messed me up for a long while. Even resulted in a fair share of suicide attempts (please, no pity. Was a very long time ago). Although it was hell, it made me the person I am today. Dont have much trouble talking about those times, there all in the past now.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

PHOENIXROSE

Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:32 AM

Copilot, darling, did this guy really call you an ugly whore? Any man called me anything like that I would be like to throw a kick his way and say "Okay, well, guess it's over now. Never talk to me again." If I lived with him it would be closer to "Take all your shit and get out." Really, if that's what he thinks of you, you need to get away from him. Like, right away. I'm sorry that his true colors are so nasty; I feel your pain.
Want me to light him on fire? I can light him on fire...

Yes, I was bullied in my younger years. Not pushed around beat up bullied, more like threatened and got stuff stollen bullied. Though I got in a few tussles. I was not a popular kid. I'm not what could really be called "popular" now, either, but the friends I have are good ones and no one is throwing nasty insults my way. That I know of. Anyway it eventually drove me out of school early (tested out) and I have not been eager to go back, though I know I should get a degree. I've just been surrounded by elitists most of my life and haven't seen that it would change much in college. Maybe so I hope. Hoping to start college later this year. Ugh.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

SASSALICIOUS

Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by copilot:
So anyone have advice for someone who's about to become single again? I don't know how this works I'm only at the I hate the fing bastard and listening to Fiona Apple at high volumes stage. Also I havn't told him yet. But it's his own f**king fault. Sorry anger issues.

An I carried such a torch....For the Dark Lord

I don't have much advice for you (4 years is a long time,,,i'm impressed). Stay angry for the time being. If you don't you risk not following through (and that might be bad). When you do break up with him, don't use hints. Just say it.

Fiona Apple? I love her!! Have you heard the new album yet? I keep meaning to buy it, but also keep forgetting.

Other music to listen to: Silverchair, Evanescence, Lacuna Coil, and Ani Difranco (she's not my favorite, but she has some good angry girl music).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

EMMARIGBY

Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:43 AM

I just had to say Copilot that hearing about your troubles had me seething in indignation. That should mean something. I've only known you for a few weeks, have just chatted over e-mail, and still you inspire strong feelings of protectiveness. This suggests that you are a special and wonderful person.

Don't let the get you down. Once the anger wears off it's all too easy to get depressed over stuff like this. Chuck him but keep your self worth intact, I say!!

Hope you're feeling better today (I have to catch up some so I may find out!)

"The bad stuff's easier to believe" Pretty Woman

MERCURY002

Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:19 AM

stay talking to us it will cheer you up, as to control the anger i have no idea some say better out than in, i have only been properly angery once, i just put the negative feelings in a little box in my mind (i think its bad for me but so is crossing the road) and sometimes it builds and i feel like the hulk about to go all green also my fav color.

Simon:"If the battle was so horrible, why did he name the ship after it?"
Zoe:"Once you've been in serenity you never leave"

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Thursday, May 25, 2006 10:58 AM

Hey Copilot

Sorry to hear about the (in)significant other in your life. My advice would be to dump him and move on, but I know that's usually a lot harder to do than it is to say.

I kind of wound up being a serial bullying victim, and it's something that I've only recently managed to put a stop to. I was bullied in varying degrees pretty much all the way through school - writing poetry and a fondness for science fiction doesn't go over with the how's-my-makeup oh-I-love-this-song how-do-I-look he-HAS-to-call-me crowd. It only stopped when a rumour went around the school that I was psychic (I'm not) and I became weirdly cool for my last school year. That was fun :)

Shortly after I finished college I wound up with a guy who belittled me just about every day we were together. I didn't realise how bad it was at the time, but the stuff he said had a horrible effect on me. I finally snapped the night he took his anger out on me by hitting me. Here's a tip. Never hit a girl who's grown up in a tough neighbourhood and has repressed anger issues. One particularly gleeful friend (who'd wanted me to dump the guy for ages) told me she could still see the phone shaped bruise on the guy's left cheek four days later. I got over it, but I didn't date again for over two years.

You'd have thought I'd have learned my lesson from that, but the icing on the cake was getting bullied by my boss at work. And guess what? ~Again~ clever me didn't realise what was going on until someone else pointed it out! The thing was I'd been off work for a long time due to illness, and this boss had labelled me as unreliable from the time I got back. I did manage to sort the situation out eventually, but it was horrible at the time, especially since I was convinced for a long time that she was right and I ~was~ a terrible employee, and couldn't understand why I never seemed to improve.

As you can imagine, once I got out of that situation there was a LOT of trying to figure out why I seemed to end up getting bullied so much and how I could stop it happening again. I've been very lucky in that I have great friends who've made me feel a lot better about myself and who give me great advice when thinks get rough. And I can safely say that I will never, ever be bullied again - by anyone!

I don't usually go for posting my life story on the internet, but I wanted to let people know that bullying can happen at any stage of your life and there's always, always a way out. It might take ages, it might take courage, it might even take legal action (!) but there is ~always~ a way out. I can't believe how great my life is now! I certainly didn't think it would take less than a year to get a job I really love. So if anyone out there is stuck in any situation that makes them miserable, my advice is to do whatever you can to get out of it and have the happiest life you can possible have. No matter what anyone says, you deserve it.

Desktop Hippie: at one with the 'verse

FLATTOP

Thursday, May 25, 2006 12:49 PM

Violence:
I am well trained at committing acts of violence. Not UFC cage match good, but well enough that I train others. That said; I abhor violence. I do not want to hurt anyone. I do however recognize it as occasionally necessary, as I have seen what can happen to peaceful, poorly trained/equiped people when faced with a very few well trained/equiped opponents that intend them ill. I believe that all of the people in the world should possess the knowledge/means to inflict gross bodily harm on others. That way the good folk of the world will not only vastly out-number the evil, but the evil few will live in mortal fear of discovery. Heinlein (sp?) said it best, "An armed society is a polite society."

The lack of comity, and civility in today's society are rants that I will lauch off on when I have more time...

Violence in film: My daughter and I like to watch zombie/horror/action films, accept the fantasy so to speak, then we pick them apart, and determine better courses of action for the main character(s) to have taken. It's kooky, but we enjoy it.

Exes: haven't had one in too long to comment.

Bullying: I'm a largish man (6' 200#), I carry myself confidently, and keep looking around in an 'I know what's around me' way, not a twitchy 'What was that?' way. I don't get bullied so much (except by my wife ).

Only you can make you feel guilty. If you are doing the right thing - no matter what anyone else says, feel good about it and yourself. If you aren't doing the right thing - straighten up, or may the weight of your guilt drown you.

Do you know what your sin is Captain?
Aww Hell. I'm a big fan of all seven.

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:04 PM

Good morning, all!
I missed a bit yesterday...
Copilot, the engine is warmed up, and ready to have someone tossed through it; just say the word!

I think the only thing I haven't replied to has been the bullying issue. School for me was quite a long time ago. I was never bullied, nor was I the bully. I had a core of friends I stuck with, and if you picked on one of us, you had to deal with many. Ok, we weren't thugs, or weightlifters, but we were the geeks, etc, and we could confuse the hell out of any attacker . They eventually gave up.

Let me throw out another topic for today: equality in the workplace. Anyone having issues with this? Males and females both.
My story is that I am one of two males where I work (the other is the owner of the Agency). I am also the newest member of the "team", and still learning from everyone. There is only one area that I know more than most everyone else, but I still have to ask for help. As far as equality, I am treated well, if condescendingly at times. And yes, I have to hear about the evils of males every now and again when one of my sex does something stupid. All I can really say is I am happy I have my own office!
Y'all's thoughts?

Holding until you get back, Captain.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:18 PM

Tristan

I work in an all female office. I am the only one here with technical certifications AND in my last position I actually ran a company. So there is a lot of animosity from the others.

I know it is awful to say, but I actually prefer working with men. We women are our own greatest enemy. I do not know why, but women do tend to sabatoge each other. Not all women, but enough to make life uncomfortable.

Ladies, do I speak truth?

BTW: interestingly enough I got asked out last night. One small problem, he is EXACTLY half my age. Toy boy is nice, but Oedipal is a little too freaky

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

TAYEATRA

Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

BTW: interestingly enough I got asked out last night. One small problem, he is EXACTLY half my age. Toy boy is nice, but Oedipal is a little too freaky

I'm guessing it does wonders for self-esteem though!

Yay for FMF!

In response to the equality at work thing. In my, admittedly limited, experience in retail I found that staff were treated equally by other staff and management. However, customers were clearly discriminatory, going to women to complain, men for enquiries and generally seeking out older members of staff to assist. I was the youngest member of staff despite being floor manager on more than one occasion and the condescending manner in which I was treated was very derogatory. Luckily I had others watching out for me.

*****
Taya
*****
I'm going to S3!!!
(*Insert hysterical celebration dance here*)

SOULQUAKE

Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Tristan

I know it is awful to say, but I actually prefer working with men. We women are our own greatest enemy. I do not know why, but women do tend to sabatoge each other. Not all women, but enough to make life uncomfortable.

Ladies, do I speak truth?

You do! The worst job I worked was as a receptionist with a bunch of girls. It was insane, the backstabbing and gossip and, like you said, sabatoge. I was only there for less than two months, I left for different reasons, but I was glad to go!

---
"Sun came out, and I walked on my feet and heard with my ears. I ate the bits, the bits stayed down, and I work. I function like I'm a girl. I hate it because I know it'll go away."

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:02 PM

Taya, I admit that it was smile inspiring. But it is weird. I am thinking that he doesn't know how old I am. My kids tell me that I don't look 40.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

PHOENIXROSE

Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:10 PM

Well, is this guy older than your kids?
My mom was asked out by a 19-year-old a few years back. At the time my brother was 24-ish, don't quite remember when it was. Anyway she went to lunch with this kid and flat out told him she had a son who was several years older than him. Apparently he nearly went into shock.
There's an interesting subject. How do people here feel about age differences? Personally I don't mind a few years older, actually more likely to connect with folk a few years older than me. And as long as they aren't too much older than my brother (who is coming up on 28 now) it's shiny. Anyone too old shows interest in me and I have to closely examine the creepiness factor before I can say it's shiny. I'm sure it will continue to be less important as I get older.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:21 PM

My oldest is 17. He will be 18 in August. My boys are very protective of me, seeing as how their dad has gone all bibbledy on us. Not sure how they would feel about it. My "borrowed" daughter thinks it HI-larious. We were laughing last night. I told her I couldn't bring him home and she said, so don't bring him home. Then I told her I was too old for the backseat and I couldn't go home with him - casue he probably lived with his mother. She started laughing so hard she could barely get out "Shh, don't wake my mom!"

I like to look at younger me. I think anyone younger than 30 is to young for me. Just different places in life. I like older men, as long as the don't act old.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

SHEPHERD2BE

Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:33 PM

Having worked only in mixed workplaces I can offer only the following about an all female workplace:
About 2 months ago my mother called me at work and asked me to send flowers to her office. I quickly tried to figure out what I had done or forgotten to do.

Nothing it turns out. She just has an all female office and sends herself flowers about once every three weeks. Why? Because everyone in her office is a busybody. They gossip back and forth and have to know every facet of each others lives.

When her flowers arrive everyone makes a point to stop into her office and try to read the card which she has removed and it drives them insane or at least more insane than her, that is.

As far as inequality goes, it has taken me 3 years at my current job to reach the salary level of my female predecessor who left after 8 months with the office in shambles. So here I sit surfing the net, posting and looking for another job instead of actually accomplishing my work.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Send lawyers, guns, and money

MERCURY002

Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:46 PM

Yes ive noticed that women tend to do the whole back stab thing rather well and not just between women but they can also pick on guys, very nastily and destroy self confidence like a dog with a chew toy, i do perfer working with guys in that sense but the conversation is a lot smaller if you know what i mean. The guy way of solving work problems is much better, confrontation and talking to someone rather than it building up and ending in a fight for sure. i have also noticed that guys in the office can also tend to stop women from stabbing eachother in the back but women cant seem to stop it i dunno why.

Simon:"If the battle was so horrible, why did he name the ship after it?"
Zoe:"Once you've been in serenity you never leave"

NVGHOSTRIDER

Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:24 PM

I work in a Female dominated office and despite being fairly close knit I do see the cattiness from time to time. Oh well, you can't stop human nature.
FMF: Too bad you don't live close. I have a few uncles and cousins that are single/divorced that you might be interested in.
TRISTAN: Good day from the Battle Born State.
COPILOT: Sorry to hear of all your misfortune. F'em, SMILE.

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:30 PM

The age difference thing has never bothered me. I have said before that my wife is ten years younger than I am, and both of us are alright with that. There is culture shock every now and then , but nothing serious. Keeps the relationship interestin'!
Love is age-blind, or should be, but people can be petty and not understand this. I have no problem seeing a person with someone half their age, as long as they are happy together. (This is of course assuming the age difference does not dip into the "underage").

Holding until you get back, Captain.

DEEPGIRL187

Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
We women are our own greatest enemy. I do not know why, but women do tend to sabatoge each other. Not all women, but enough to make life uncomfortable.

*holds up boombox blasting Lit*

"It's no surprise to me, I am my own worst enemy"

Sorry, just had to do that. Never a dull moment in the imponderables thread.

It's funny, I've never had to deal with much bullying (fortunately), or the female back-stabbing business. Of course, when I was younger I mostly hung out with men, so I guess I kind of insulated myself from that sort of thing. To this day, I tend to understand men more than I do women, despite the fact that I am (obviously) female. That being said, I have another imponderable. In general, do you guys find it easier to understand and form relationships with the opposite sex or your own?

Edit: Guns trained and ready at the target, Copilot. And by the way, I'd suggest listening to some Paula Cole, particularly from her album "This Fire". I worked through a couple years of depression and repressed anger listening to that album alone.

**************************************************

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:37 PM

NV

Yummy! I will be right over!

*FMF jumps in shuttle and heads west*

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

RHYIANAN

Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:38 PM

As far as age differences go, I think that the older you get, the less it matters. I mean, you don't want a 13 year old going out with someone that is 20, but the same age difference is less of an issue when the people involved are 22 and 29.

Other than that, it's a matter of perspective and the particular people involved. My parents have an age difference of 11 years and they are very happy with each other.

Edit: Tristan beat me to it.

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:53 PM

DeepGirl, I generally find it easier to have relationships with females than my own. I do have several close male friends...more like brothers, actually. Being where I am, the general likes are NASCAR, football, Hooter's girls, and beer...none of these things are in the forefront of my likes or desires. Well, maybe Hooter's girls, every now and then . Seriously, though, I cook, sew, clean, and would rather discuss history than the latest game scores, so very few males around here relate to me. There are a few, and we have found each other, but we are a minority. Females, on the other hand, are a lot more complex and interesting. I am not trying to slam my fellow males, but there are times when it seems the more of them you get together, the lower the common intellect becomes. That is one reason I love being on this site. Everyone I have chatted with has been extremely articulate (naked, too?) and straightforward. IRL, this is not always the case. So, IRL, yes, I find it easier to have relationships with females than males.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

QUEENOFTHENORTH

Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
[I know it is awful to say, but I actually prefer working with men. We women are our own greatest enemy. I do not know why, but women do tend to sabatoge each other. Not all women, but enough to make life uncomfortable.

Ladies, do I speak truth?

You absolutely speak the truth. I've never really worked in an all female place, but I attended a specialized college course that was just 30 girls in all the same classes. The pettiness and backstabbing and arguing was unbelievable. I was one of the few that managed to get along with everybody. I was getting really sick of it by the end though. *shudders in memory*

Anyways, I am also looking for advice as to where to find decent available guys, as my life is seriously lacking in menfolk. Any tips?

"I'm having one of those things - a headache with pictures."

"Of course I'm right. And if I'm not, may we all be horribly crushed from above somehow."

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
to find out how to buy mine!

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:44 PM

Hi all! Been busy with fic and work the last few days, so many new topics!!

gender/workplace - as a woman in science, I've had some problems here. The thing I've found, especially in the past year when I've twice been in charge of fieldwork, is that men as leaders (warning - gross generalization here!!) tend to have a Plan. I have more of a direction, which I allow to shift as I go along, based on how things are going, the weather, etc.

But some of the men working for me get very distressed over this. So I have to give them a solid plan, then when things change the next day I update the plan, etc. And they seem better with that.

It seems that if I don't directly tell these guys what to do, they are eager to assume I'm clueless and try to take over. It's annoying.

Keep in mind these are scientists I'm talking about, and sometimes not the most socially well adjusted...

FMF - dating. Sigh. I'm also in a 'dead zone'. My gay best friend, who has the same difficulty I do about finding 30-something year old single men, got on match.com and has a few dates this week. Anyone have theories about that? Personal ad type things just sound scary to me.

Violence and bullying - so, I was a shy one when young, people could be mean to me and I'd never defend myself. I learned to play ice hockey in college, and somehow being the situation where large people (male and female!) are running into me and trying to knock me down kind of made me braver, physically and socially.

If you're being bullied, I highly recommend learning a martial art or a sport that involves learning to face confrontation, just so you don't go into panic mode in those situations. Hopefully, you'll never have to throw a punch (I never have) but the confidence and lack of fear will show.

Whew. More fun topics guys!

oh and copilot - many hugs and kisses! And I say go ahead and be angry. Don't stifle it, and it'll run itself out in time.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

NVGHOSTRIDER

Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:27 PM

Calling all Browncoats. I am going on a lunch date Friday and I am nervous (only a little, no big thing). Just need some encouragement. Funny, I can be in complete mortal danger, but something as simple as lunch has me nervous.

TRISTAN

Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:35 PM

NVGhostrider, all will be well! You are a suave, debonair Browncoat; unable to be fazed by a lunch date. You will woo this woman with your humor, witty conversation, and dashing good looks. She will laugh at the jokes, engage in satisfying verbal sparring with you, and will be attracted to the wonderful person you are.
Be yourself, enjoy her presence, and don't try too hard.

We expect full details upon your return!

Holding until you get back, Captain.

NVGHOSTRIDER

Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:00 PM

Thank you sir for the note of encouragement. Needless to say this is the same woman that stood me up a few Saturdays ago so my anxiety level is a little imbalanced.

And yes full details will follow.

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:33 PM

If she stood you up, she should be nervous, not you!

I have to say, you sound like an awesome guy. If I wasn't most of a continent away, I'd knock her down and take her place!

So there - she's a lucky girl. Have fun!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

NVGHOSTRIDER

Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:46 PM

Thanks for the ups M4P. Now I'm all amped. Looks like I'm going to the range tonight.

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, May 26, 2006 2:59 AM

Awwwww, so many people having dates! Yay!
I wanna have a date...
I will add my inquiry to the others here; where the heck am I s'posed to meet folk? I swear I've tried all venues. Not much luck with dating sites (they always look better in their personal than when I meet them, at least so far in my experience) not much luck hanging around my local hot-spot coffee shop (last time I went the only guy to talk to me ended up being a few peas short of a casserole. Really, he was out of his mind) No one talks to me at the bookstore (and here I thought hanging around the scifi books wearing my coat would be an ideal way to meet folk with some kind of similar interest) And I'm still looking for a new job that will hopefully have more interesting people. Or really, any people. Currently on the lonely graveyard shift, which I didn't mind before, but now I itch for more human contact, being so recently singlefied. Maybe I'll meet some folk when I finally get back into school? Never had too much luck with that before, but I guess you never know.
Okay, I ranted, sorry. Any advice?

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

MERCURY002

Friday, May 26, 2006 8:12 AM

wow this thread is getting big fast as well, 90 posts already, how many new threads will we have to set up before we solw down?

Simon:"If the battle was so horrible, why did he name the ship after it?"
Zoe:"Once you've been in serenity you never leave"

EMMARIGBY

Friday, May 26, 2006 8:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Awwwww, so many people having dates! Yay!
I wanna have a date...
I will add my inquiry to the others here; where the heck am I s'posed to meet folk? I swear I've tried all venues. Not much luck with dating sites (they always look better in their personal than when I meet them, at least so far in my experience) not much luck hanging around my local hot-spot coffee shop (last time I went the only guy to talk to me ended up being a few peas short of a casserole. Really, he was out of his mind) No one talks to me at the bookstore (and here I thought hanging around the scifi books wearing my coat would be an ideal way to meet folk with some kind of similar interest) And I'm still looking for a new job that will hopefully have more interesting people. Or really, any people. Currently on the lonely graveyard shift, which I didn't mind before, but now I itch for more human contact, being so recently singlefied. Maybe I'll meet some folk when I finally get back into school? Never had too much luck with that before, but I guess you never know.
Okay, I ranted, sorry. Any advice?

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

Your story sounds suspiciously like my own. Are you serrupticiously stealing my life? You can have it, I don't seem to be using it!

I agree that it's almost impossible to meet new people in a social context. I live in a very remote area. There are no local shops, pubs or clubs that I can hang out in regularly so if I go out looking for such places it involved a scary effort of will (and I'm not good at those) and usually fails because I'm too nervous to talk to anyone. Not tried internet dating yet but am becoming more tempted as my life zips away from me.

I too thought that getting back into Uni would help me meet new people but I ended up doing a course where I'm the one and only student so, not so much!!

My last best hope is the Serenity3 convention this summer. After all, there'll be lots of Browncoats there and we all know they make the best mates! Plus I'll have my shiney new friends Tayeatra and Leaina to protect me from potential Reavers. I'd settle for Sean's (Simon!) number! Anyone know if he's single?

VINTERDRAKEN

Friday, May 26, 2006 8:53 AM

I hoped to meet some interesting people when I was at the uni. Cant really say I did though. I know alot of good people at the Uni its just that I meet them all elsewhere .
Im actually having a bit of the same problem. Mostly cause I live in the town of no single people, wich is annoying. And since I dont like longdistance relationships.. I meet people these days via Larps and fairs that I work/visit. Other then that I dont know, could always hang in bars I guess. Not really my thing though, never got how to meet people in bars I just go there to get drunk with my pals

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, May 26, 2006 9:30 AM

Eurgh. Well, glad I'm not the only one with the problem, then. I don't go to bars. Have to say I would truly, truly prefer to date someone who didn't drink or anything. Substances and I don't get along.
Convention! Yeah, that'd be nice! I'm all for a Browncoat mate. Too bad most of 'em are in California, which is exactly 1126 miles from me. Give or take. Boo sad me.
Yeah, I'd like Sean's number, too. (Or Summer's for that matter ) Most folk don't really date fan girls, I bet, but how shiny would that be?

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Friday, May 26, 2006 9:52 AM

Despite the fact that my bullying boss was a woman, I have to disagree on the women at work being overly bitchy thing. I've worked for all female offices, all male (except for little me) offices and a mix of both and I've never really found a difference.

Men and women ~do~ tend to deal with things in different ways, and women can be pretty bitchy when things go wrong, but the atmosphere wherever I worked always depended on the people involved. In the place where I was bullied there were some amazing women who would never backstab, never bitch and kept their gosspip to the giggly, non-nasty kind. And then there were some absolute hellhounds who delighted in stirring up trouble, manipulated the people around them every way they could and generally spread misery wherever they want.

As for equality, I can't speak for the US since I live in Ireland, but here women still aren't paid as much as men. It's stupid, but it's still the general rule. It's hard to prove individual cases though, so it's taking a long time to sort out. That being said, we have manditory maternity leave for women who choose to have families so that cuts out a lot of hassle our US counterparts have to deal with. The downside is that some companies can be reluctant to promote women to high level or specialised positions, since hiring a guy cuts out the possibility of having to hire someone to cover the role for nine months somewhere down the line.

I'm working for another woman in a much smaller business than the one I was at. It's mostly women here (it's an IT training company) and they're all the sweetest people alive. Mind you, so are the guys!

Desktop Hippie: at one with the 'verse

NUCLEARDAY

Friday, May 26, 2006 10:58 AM

About meeting people: I've been down that road many a time since I graduated college. Was real easy to meet people when I was going to school, but once I started doing the night-shift thing my social circle consisted of my brother, my sister, and her boyfriend. :P

Can't offer much in the way of advice, I guess. I never found anything that worked too well, especially when it came to finding dates. I swear there's a universal law that the more obsessed you get with scoring a date somewhere, the harder it is find someone. And of course, at least for me, it's when I decide I'm going to take some time off and specifically not look for some romance that people start popping out of the woodwork :P

________________________________________________
You can take my Browncoat when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. (Or if Kaylee asks me nicely...)

TRISTAN

Friday, May 26, 2006 1:49 PM

Everyone I ever dated I met through school (high school and university). I was never one for going to bars or really socializing outside the Drama department. I have no real advice on meeting people...but if I did, I would say use this board. I know, too much distance between people...hey, for once in all these posts, I am unable to put my two cents in...

I'll be over here, enjoying my coffee...sorry!

Holding until you get back, Captain.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, May 26, 2006 2:29 PM

OK

Now I am embarrased. My kids have put me on Yahoo Personals. Now I am getting ebombed.

I must steal River6213's weapons, for there are some teenagers what need whoopin!

http://search.personals.yahoo.com/us/results/results?resulttype=1&sear
chsource=1&searchview=1&r_gender=1&r_gender_pref=2&r_min_age=38&r_max_age=43&r_has_photo=2&r_locid=24007243&r_loc_ver=2&r_language_pref=1&use_compat=0&&alt_nsi=&advanced=1

I am the first one.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

TRISTAN

Friday, May 26, 2006 2:38 PM

If I weren't happily married to a woman who could kill me with her pinky...wow! I can see why you are getting e-bombed!

You should have something on their about being a browncoat...might drive off some of the less desirables.

Holding until you get back, Captain.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, May 26, 2006 2:41 PM

Thank you. You are very kind.

Well, I don't know the password. I will get it from them before I put an end to them! I guess that would work!

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

DEEPGIRL187

Friday, May 26, 2006 2:43 PM

You'll be meeting Prince Charming in no time. Who knows, you might even get a response from a certain swai captain...

**************************************************

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

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