Firefly Fanfiction: What Are Your Pet-Peeves?

POSTED BY: Xeyra
UPDATED: Friday, November 30, 2012 02:57
VIEWED: 59804
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XEYRA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 12:08 AM

Hi all,

I don't know if a thread like this has been posted in the past but I was curious about what kind of things are big no-no's in Firefly/Serenity fanfic for you. I mean, what kind of plotlines, characterizations, language/grammar issues, pairings, etc., make you cringe or stop reading a fanfiction (or not read it at all based on the summary!). Is there a certain storyline that you think has been so reshashed you just want to yell "Stop, for Joss's sake!", or maybe a certain pairing you just can't stand?

I'm interested in your personal pet-peeves concerning fanfiction in this great 'verse. I would love to hear from you.

~*~

I will start by letting you know my own personal pet-peeve.

It relates to the characterization of River, by having her refer to herself in the third person (as in "she would like to..." or "the girl likes this..."). It really makes me want to pull hairs out of my head. I'm rather vocal about this, I'm afraid.

After all, if we base River's characterization on the canon material that exist (series, movie, comics and the River Tam Sessions), we come across only one instance where she refers to herself in the third person and we must take it within the context it was said. In Objects in Space, Mal asks Simon "Does she understand that?" with River just beside him, so she rightly answers "She understands. She doesn't compreehend". Not only is she answering him, she's making a point (go River!).

Aside from that, there is not another moment in series, movie, comics or R. Tam Sessions where we see her refer to herself as "she" or as "girl", and I don't understand why some writers use that whole dissociative thing to make her look even crazier than she is.

PS: I read somewhere that she does use the "she" as part of a joke in another episode, but I don't remember that; then again, I don't have all her lines decorated (yet! LOL). If anyone can point that out to me, I'd appreciate it. Regardless, it does not change my point above.

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

STEAMER

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:34 AM

Jayne/River. However interesting, however well-written a story is, I just can't abide J/R, not never. I'm sure I'll find a few more as I read more fanfic........

~
'Eta Gorram Na Smech!'
(That's gorram ridiculous!)

LAUGHINGMUSE

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 2:53 AM

River being a wee bit too coherent for too long. Yes, she does have her more lucid periods; and some of her insights and ideas are really good (this is what happens when you can step back a level and spot the patterns). She's had her brain severely scrambled. Before that, her own neural net already featured many "skipped steps" - the mental "of course this happens, duh" - but now that her mind isn't able to focus and choose what will make her react, this gotten more pronouced. Or it should. Dammit. She not only reads minds, she sees patterns that most people don't see - being too closely enmeshed in them. But she sees, and reacts, to everything. Unless the amygdula can grow back, it's not ever going to get better.

(Now there's a good question. I think that I remember reading that nerve sheaths cannot regenerate - can the amygdula?)

There are others: mis-spelling of the pinyin Chinese (I studied the language for five years and got within sight of technical fluency, so...fingernails on the blackboard...); oversimplified characterization; two-too-to / their-they're-there / and other versions of Fun with Homonyms; but these other annoyances are either widespread enough that they're simply part and parcel of fanfiction, or I start systematically avoiding the authors who most often make my teeth itch...a bit like everyone does, I'd imagine.

---------------------------------
Mankind makes tools; we use them to augment our hands, arms and legs.
The computer augments the brain and this makes it very unpopular with totalitarians. - Charles J.C. Lyall

RMMC

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 2:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Steamer:
Jayne/River. However interesting, however well-written a story is, I just can't abide J/R, not never. I'm sure I'll find a few more as I read more fanfic........

Not too fond of that, nor of the Mal/River ones.

And for plotlines...I think I've seen a wee too many with Zoe pregnant. Some were good. Some not. I'd just like to see something else for P-BDM.

Grammar: Homonyms. Folks need to know the difference between there, they're and their, among others. Nothing makes me fall out of a story faster than the wrong word. Get a beta, someone who will tell you what to fix, not just what's good.

Paragraphs are your friends as are punctuation and capitalization. Use them, but don't abuse them.

Avoid Mary/Marty Sues ("original" characters who, inspite of their highly tragic lives manage to single-handedly save the day and (usually)do the horizontal bop with one of the main characters.) I tend to go with the thought that any OC/fill-in-the-blank pairing will have a M. Sue in it.

*****
RMMC

REGINAROADIE

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 3:27 AM

One basic pet peeve of mine are fan fics that go on and on. I'm looking at Screw's two stories, KAYLEE'S LAMENT and THE TREASURE OF LEI FONG WU. The latter is up to nearly 80 chapters, and each one of them takes nearly an hour to read. Who has the fucking time to read all that? I know I don't. I know he's an actual author whose books were on the New York Times bestsellers list and he's into detail and characterization and all that, which I respect. I've actually taken a few pages out of his book in my stories. I just believe in economic storytelling.

The above one is sonething that I have no control over. This one, on the other hand, is one I'm actually addressing. The characterizations of Regan and Gabriel Tam. I know that the former was in only one scene of the whole series and the latter was in three, thus it is open for interpretation who these people truly are. But I find that most people are incredibly lazy and have them either ignorant at best or downright villainous at worst, particularily Gabriel. I know how much Joss hates father figures, so I imagine he would have made Gabriel into a big bad. But like I said, I find this easy characterization to be incredibly lazy. I mean, they are their parents. No matter what has or would have happened, they still are a family. And YOU CAN'T GO HOME AGAIN is my small attempt to rectify that which has bugged me to no end. I wanted there to be at least one fanfic in the massive volumes of FIREFLY fanfics that makes Simon and River's parents to be a just as complex as our BDH's, and even worthy of forgiveness. I wanted Gabriel who's not just a bastard but a bastard whom people understood why he's who the way he is and for Regan to be not just some passive housewife but to have a Katherine Hepburn moment. Buecause I find that more emotionally hnest and more interesting than a rote "Parents=bad" fic.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"There's only one "Return" ok, and it ain't "of the King", it's "of the Jedi."

"Maybe we should start calling your friend 'Padme' because he loves 'Mannequin Skywalker' so much, Right? (imitating robot) Danger...danger...my name is Anakin...my shitty acting is ruining saga."

Excerpt of internet teaser for CLERKS 2.

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:06 AM

I am a big firearm enthusiast so I will say

Zoe's weapon is not a sawn-off shotgun or a sawn-off rifle it is an 1892 mares leg, lever action handgun, that is impractical because it can only contain at max 7 rounds, has an over-sized loop which was meant to allow you to cock it 1-handed, however this can be used a a blunt melee weapon, as demonstrated by Zoe in "The Train Job"

sorry, kind of particular about weapons

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

PHOENIXROSE

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RMMC:

Grammar: Homonyms. Folks need to know the difference between there, they're and their, among others. Nothing makes me fall out of a story faster than the wrong word. Get a beta, someone who will tell you what to fix, not just what's good.

Paragraphs are your friends as are punctuation and capitalization. Use them, but don't abuse them.

These two sum up two of my big issues perfectly, so I'm just going to quote them. I'm going to say that most esspecially your and you're need to be watched. Even people who use you're properly one time don't use it next time, they use your, which really makes me twitch.

Pairings are interesting. I like to see all sides of an issue, but there are certain pairings that just have to be incredibly well-written for me to buy them at all. Jayne and River, Jayne and Kaylee, Mal and Simon... All of these kinda make me twitch, but I have found a few stories that make them work. Any story would have to address the basic issues with the pairing, such as how much Jayne and River clash and the fact that Jayne betrayed River and River stabbed Jayne, you know. For Jayne with Kaylee, her interest in Simon has to be addressed. For Kaylee with anyone not Simon, actually, that has to be addressed. Same with Mal and anyone not Inara. And Inara with anyone not Mal. I have yet to find a really convincing Inara/Simon or Inara/Jayne story, so both of those pairings are a bit laughable to me. I have seen very good stories that are Mal/River; the best of them address the Inara thing. So I guess then my peeve would be people just not addressing obvious issues just because they "like the pairing".
My biggest, biggest pet peeve in terms of story is pregnant Zoe. I am tired of it. Even the ones set before the BDM, which there are some older ones, kind of grind my nerves, though not quite as much. And if you are going to insist on Zoe having a baby, then for the love of Joss don't give it frickin' blue eyes. Brown is dominant and hers are very very brown. Lighter skin, lighter hair, bit more believable. Maybe even hazel eyes. Not blue, though, that just bugs me. But really, no matter how good the rest of the story is, if it says anything about "Zoe's little secret" or "Zoe eating for two" or whatever the hell else, I tend to stop reading. Honestly, though, I just don't think children fit in that well with the whole verse. Got nothing against them myself, but they would cause a lot of problems on a boat like that. I have the same reaction to storylines involving pregnant Kaylee.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

SQUID

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Xeyra:

PS: I read somewhere that she does use the "she" as part of a joke in another episode, but I don't remember that; then again, I don't have all her lines decorated (yet! LOL). If anyone can point that out to me, I'd appreciate it. Regardless, it

I think I know this one. It was during the episode "Safe" when River and Simon were kidnapped and in the village. River goes out and comes back to Simon with berries. They talk, he eats some berries and then...

SIMON
These are better than the Cambersons' berries.
RIVER
They are. Except they're poison.

Simon spits out the berries, looks panicky.

RIVER
(laughing)
He believed her. Made a face.

But yea, that's the only other place she uses third person besides the part in OIS. And this time it seems like she could be saying it to give more of an effect to the joke? I dunno.

----
Anyway...

I have HUGE pet-peeves with fanfiction. So many so that I usually can't find any I like.

I only like canon like stories/characters/relationships, in Firefly fanfiction or any other fanfiction for that matter. I cannot stand when characters do not sound/talk like they do in the series/books/whatever. Because if it doesn't sound like the way they talk, or they do something they just wouldn't do in the original its just ridiculous and unbelievable. I won't be able to imagine its them and your story would no longer be a good fanfiction, just a unrelated story with characters that happen to have the same name as Firefly characters.

I cannot stand non-cannon pairings. If it was never suggested, hinted at, or established in the original I will close out the fanfic ASAP. I hate this more than anything. Why oh why do you need to hook up Jayne and River, ("they're just good friends.") AHHHhhh... I mean it just doesn't entertain me for someone to screw with the original I fell in love with. No offense to those who do or like non-cannon pairings, but I cannot abide them. I would like to see Joss's face if the subject of Jayne/River or Mal/River ever came up. Or my favorite... Mal/Simon. WTH?

Also, any story that completly revolves around a non-existing character. Example... A story about Mal & Inara's daughter. Ummm, no. It's like a spin-off show gone wrong.

I hate fanfiction told in first person too. So yea, basically anything not in the spirit/respect to the original, already established characters, 'verse, relationships, and way of story telling will get an immediate boot by me.

Damn picky this one is :) I'm only bothered by spelling and grammar if I notice it. And my spelling and grammar are TERRIBLE, so if I notice it... that's pretty gorramn bad.

PHOENIXROSE

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Squid:
Quote:
Originally posted by Xeyra:

PS: I read somewhere that she does use the "she" as part of a joke in another episode, but I don't remember that; then again, I don't have all her lines decorated (yet! LOL). If anyone can point that out to me, I'd appreciate it. Regardless, it

I think I know this one. It was during the episode "Safe" when River and Simon were kidnapped and in the village. River goes out and comes back to Simon with berries. They talk, he eats some berries and then River says "they're poisioned." And Simon spits them out, she laughs and says something like...

"She tricked you. And you believed her."
"You're such a brat"

That's not the exact quote but it's something like that. I'm too lazy to go find the scripts right now. But yea, that's the only other place she uses third person besides the part in OIS.

The line is "He believed her, made a face." So it's completely third-person, not just relating to herself.
Yeah, that bothers me, too. Forgot to mention that one. Anyone consistantly referring to her as "girl" actually bothers me, not just she herself. I don't stop readin the fic based just on that, but it does bother me because it doesn't happen that much. The only one to call her "girl" tends to be Jayne, and even he doesn't overdo it.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

SQUID

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

The line is "He believed her, made a face." So it's completely third-person, not just relating to herself.
Yeah, that bothers me, too. Forgot to mention that one. Anyone consistantly referring to her as "girl" actually bothers me, not just she herself. I don't stop readin the fic based just on that, but it does bother me because it doesn't happen that much. The only one to call her "girl" tends to be Jayne, and even he doesn't overdo it.

My bad. I edited my post before I saw your post. But yes, I went and found the right quote and fixed it. But I agree with you. It's annoying when people over use a phrase, word, or idea that was funny or interesting the first time we saw it but gets old once you hear it again and again in someone's fanfiction.

"Is it bad that what she said made perfect
sense to me?"

SQUID

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

The line is "He believed her, made a face." So it's completely third-person, not just relating to herself.
Yeah, that bothers me, too. Forgot to mention that one. Anyone consistantly referring to her as "girl" actually bothers me, not just she herself. I don't stop readin the fic based just on that, but it does bother me because it doesn't happen that much. The only one to call her "girl" tends to be Jayne, and even he doesn't overdo it.

My bad. I edited my post before I saw your post. But yes, I went and found the right quote and fixed it. But I agree with you. It's annoying when people over use a phrase, word, or idea that was funny or interesting the first time we saw it but gets old once you hear it again and again in someone's fanfiction.

"Is it bad that what she said made perfect
sense to me?"

CAB1729

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:16 AM

I don't read a lot of fanfic because of:

a) grammar grammar grammar. If it's unreadable, it's --- unreadable, gorramit! And

b) I don't like to take the chance of stumbling on slash et al. I've created plenty of my own psychological scars, don't need someone else creating them for me too. And

c) characters not acting like the characters we know from the series/movie. What's the point?

I don't mind the pregnant Zoe thing as long as it fits and takes into account the problems she's facing. The possibility of pregnancy was mentioned in HoG and it lets us keep a bit of Wash post BDM so what the heck. Also, "family" ships crop up quite a bit in SF. Plus, I wrote one (a great one if I say so myself! ) so

___________________________________________
Hobbes: How come we play war and not peace?
Calvin: Too few role models.

PLATONIST

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:42 AM

Well developed character "point of view" is the essence of any fiction worth reading.
When a writer achieves this, either through dialog or narration, they have my attention.
I'm used to reading student rough drafts/sloppy copies so grammer and punctuation don't hinder my enjoyment.

Things that I don't like in this verse are;
Rehashes of other story lines- Read and then get creative
M/R pairing - Come on guys, that's a Dad surviving
his daughter's teen years with her "behind the wheel", in a pilot's seat! Let's draw a line.
Inara's screaming or excessive chatter(she did neither in the series or the BDM) She was weepy in the comic books, but that was her transition time.

Other than that please do keep writing someone will read....Thanks!

CHOO1701

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:32 AM

Main peeve

(Mal/Simon, Mal/River). Sorry guys, but i just feel it wouldn't happen. Also the whole "This is Kaylee/River/Inara and Simon/Jayne/Mal having full blown Sex in every graphical detail." Er...I really don't want to know (besides the reader can imagine it in more detail, if they want to )

and yes, the whole 80 chapter adventures. Its. Not. War. And. gorram. Peace. guys. 20 then yes, possibly i'll try and find the beginning, but 80!!

Okay..i'm feeling kind of like a meany for being so harsh, but there are many things I do like and not all fanfics with these are bad..

(and remeber, if you don't like it, just skip over...there's always someone else who will )

EMMARIGBY

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:37 AM

Hi

Just wanted to chime in to say I agree with almost every issue raised here but wanted to add one more that's not been mentioned.

The long, meandering pointless fic. You know the ones, they go on for chapters and chapters with everyday sweet stuff going on. No matter how well written or how much witty banter there is, if some major plot development doesn't turn up I get bored and wander off. It also annoys me when it's very clear that someone hasn't bothered to plan out a story beofre writing (sometimes they even say - I don't know where to go from here), to me that's just lazy. A good story has to have a beginning a middle and an end!

PHOENIXROSE

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EmmaRigby:
annoys me when it's very clear that someone hasn't bothered to plan out a story beofre writing (sometimes they even say - I don't know where to go from here), to me that's just lazy. A good story has to have a beginning a middle and an end!

Heh, that's why I haven't posted any extended fic at this point. I'm one of those "figure it out as I go" writers, so it would have to be completed and edited before I posted it here. If I did the chapter by chapter thing some folk can do, I would get lost. Longer fics are hard. I've had some false starts; verse plots kinda work differently than most (least they should). So I'm just doing some character exploration, which has been well-recieved. Hopefully at some point I'll have an actual story with a beginning, middle and end

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

SPACEANJL

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:09 AM

Rayne fic, every time. Not just an age issue (big GSR fan on another 'ship, and I love Laurie King's Mary Russell books) - I can't see Jayne being attracted to crazy little girls. (Then, I have my own take on what Jayne likes - shameless fic plug )

Also, sloppy writing. I am ready to defend my own use of present tense and dodgy grammar on the grounds of dramatic tension and characterization - yadda, yadda - but these l'il boxes of bits have spell checkers. You can even default 'em to Brit or US. And plots - plots are nice.

Pregnant Zoe I can almost live with, but Firefly;TNG is disturbing, particularly, I'm afraid, the Live!Wash ones. Man was last seen impersonating a kebab, people.

And I can't get on with slash/fic. The characters were not written that way originally.

Hoo, boy, you started me off on one here. Best sidle off and continue my own epic - 35,000 words and counting. Does this make it one of the monsters?

SpaceAnJL

"Many suffer from the incurable disease of writing, and it becomes chronic in their sick minds" Juvenal

SQUID

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:16 AM

Oh yea definetly EMMARIGBY.

Also I'm not too found of it when people post tiny small chapters for their story. Either they don't have the story planned out and are just posting whenever they manage to get an idea into some paragraphs. Or, they have alot done and are posting in small doses to get more reviews or have it be seen more since its being posted every single day. I mean, come on, just put things together in one long chapter with a beginning, middle, and end and have just a good number of well written, polished chapters instead of 100 smally crappy ones that just end abruptly everytime with some huge, unneccesary cliffhangers. I think its okay to have a long series where each chapter is like an episode with its own plot but also a building overall plot that connects the entire series (like you're having a season of Firefly episodes), but not to have one single story drawn out in lots of tiny chapters. That's just sloppy.

Also, AU (alternate universe) fics and crossovers don't happen for me. "Mal and Inara meet as High School students in the year 2006." Yuck. And, "Firefly meets... Harry Potter. River falls in love with Harry and a love triangle between Ron/Kaylee/Simon. What will happen?" Oh god, I hope I'm not giving anyone ideas.

--------------------
"Is it bad that what she said made perfect
sense to me?"

GEEKUSA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:04 AM

Quote:
Yuck. And, "Firefly meets... Harry Potter. River falls in love with Harry and a love triangle between Ron/Kaylee/Simon. What will happen?" Oh god, I hope I'm not giving anyone ideas.

HA! Oh I can see it now! Voldemort starts monologuing and Mal just walks up and shoots him dead! Who needs the phone book-sized novels, huh? I find myself inspired if only because it's so over-the-top I can't stop laughing (though that might be due to the late hour)...

I don't have pet-peeves about Firefly fanfics...or any fanfics in general. I just skip over the ones that don't seem appealing to me. Poor grammar in general gets on my nerves, but that's true whether I'm reading fanfics or reading an article. Not that I'm perfect or anything. I mean I feel like bashing my head against the wall when I make a stupid mistake.

"Knew it...probably...saw them cops...and...turned...tail..."

"Can't...sentence...properly."

PHOENIXROSE

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Squid:
I'm not too found of it when people post tiny small chapters for their story. Either they don't have the story planned out and are just posting whenever they manage to get an idea into some paragraphs. Or, they have alot done and are posting in small doses to get more reviews or have it be seen more since its being posted every single day. I mean, come on, just put things together in one long chapter with a beginning, middle, and end and have just a good number of well written, polished chapters instead of 100 smally crappy ones that just end abruptly everytime with some huge, unneccesary cliffhangers. I think its okay to have a long series where each chapter is like an episode with its own plot but also a building overall plot that connects the entire series (like you're having a season of Firefly episodes), but not to have one single story drawn out in lots of tiny chapters. That's just sloppy.

Also, AU (alternate universe) fics and crossovers don't happen for me. "Mal and Inara meet as High School students in the year 2006." Yuck. And, "Firefly meets... Harry Potter. River falls in love with Harry and a love triangle between Ron/Kaylee/Simon. What will happen?" Oh god, I hope I'm not giving anyone ideas.

Tiny chapters are a problem, I agree. Sometimes they get cut off, though. I don't know what the length limit is, but one of the stories I read recently had to cut up the last chapter because of size restriction. But there are some chapters in storylines that are obviously shorter than whatever the restriction, so yeah, that can be annoying. Unless the next chapter is already up

I don't really do crossovers, either. Not just because I'm not all that embroiled in pop culture and as such wouldn't really get it (though I have been a Harry Potter fan for many years) but because a lot of times they don't mesh well. I suppose they can, and little homages or allusions can be fun (read a story where there was a very brief cameo by Angel, which was kind of amusing) but all these stories take place in different universes with different realities, so, y'know. And I've never read an AU story. I kinda get the fantasy element, but mostly I just wonder what the point is.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

XEYRA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Quote:
Originally posted by Squid:
Quote:
Originally posted by Xeyra:

PS: I read somewhere that she does use the "she" as part of a joke in another episode, but I don't remember that; then again, I don't have all her lines decorated (yet! LOL). If anyone can point that out to me, I'd appreciate it. Regardless, it

I think I know this one. It was during the episode "Safe" when River and Simon were kidnapped and in the village. River goes out and comes back to Simon with berries. They talk, he eats some berries and then River says "they're poisioned." And Simon spits them out, she laughs and says something like...

"She tricked you. And you believed her."
"You're such a brat"

That's not the exact quote but it's something like that. I'm too lazy to go find the scripts right now. But yea, that's the only other place she uses third person besides the part in OIS.

The line is "He believed her, made a face." So it's completely third-person, not just relating to herself.
Yeah, that bothers me, too. Forgot to mention that one. Anyone consistantly referring to her as "girl" actually bothers me, not just she herself. I don't stop readin the fic based just on that, but it does bother me because it doesn't happen that much. The only one to call her "girl" tends to be Jayne, and even he doesn't overdo it.

Thank you for pointing it out to me. I love that exchange. My favourite Simon and River moment.

I would have loved if I could be less bothered by it but I tend to cringe at it when I find it a fanfiction that could have otherwise be good, and it kind of puts me off. I try to continue reading but if it repeats often enough, I will most likely give up. It's just me, I guess. I'm a very big fan of River, so when her characterization is so over-the-top with the dissociation thing, I just click the little and nice Back button and go find something else.

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

XEYRA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LaughingMuse:
River being a wee bit too coherent for too long. Yes, she does have her more lucid periods; and some of her insights and ideas are really good (this is what happens when you can step back a level and spot the patterns). She's had her brain severely scrambled. Before that, her own neural net already featured many "skipped steps" - the mental "of course this happens, duh" - but now that her mind isn't able to focus and choose what will make her react, this gotten more pronouced. Or it should. Dammit. She not only reads minds, she sees patterns that most people don't see - being too closely enmeshed in them. But she sees, and reacts, to everything. Unless the amygdula can grow back, it's not ever going to get better.

(Now there's a good question. I think that I remember reading that nerve sheaths cannot regenerate - can the amygdula?)

Hmmm... I think very little in the brain actually regenerates but my only course in neuroscience was way back in my second year in college so I'm very rusty on that... LOL. Then again, we're 500 years in the future... who knows what medicine can do? Not that, what with being fugitives and all, they can do anything about it.

That point actually doesn't bother me so much, post-movie wise. I guess my problem is people actually having River sounding even more crazy than she is. :)

Quote:
Originally posted by LaughingMuse:
There are others: mis-spelling of the pinyin Chinese (I studied the language for five years and got within sight of technical fluency, so...fingernails on the blackboard...); oversimplified characterization; two-too-to / their-they're-there / and other versions of Fun with Homonyms; but these other annoyances are either widespread enough that they're simply part and parcel of fanfiction, or I start systematically avoiding the authors who most often make my teeth itch...a bit like everyone does, I'd imagine.

My main language isn't English but I tend to catch this confusion a lot when I'm reading fanfiction, mostly because when I write something in English, I try very hard not fall into this problem with homonyms, so they become very noticeable to me when I do catch them. It does distract a bit (like any mispelled word or confusing grammar) but if it appears sparingly, I can ignore it.

As for the mis-pelling of the Chinese, I believe that may be a problem for pretty much anyone who doesn't know Chinese but want to incorporate it into their fanfictions in the 'Verse. I'm pretty sure I'd end up screwing up the Chinese if I tried to do something with it...

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

XEYRA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 12:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
Rayne fic, every time. Not just an age issue (big GSR fan on another 'ship, and I love Laurie King's Mary Russell books) - I can't see Jayne being attracted to crazy little girls. (Then, I have my own take on what Jayne likes - shameless fic plug )

I like your interpretation of what Jayne likes. LOL. I'm not really fond of Jayne/River either; haven't found any fanfic yet that could convert me and the only one I've seen highly recommended makes use of my pet-peeve described above, so...

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
Pregnant Zoe I can almost live with, but Firefly;TNG is disturbing, particularly, I'm afraid, the Live!Wash ones. Man was last seen impersonating a kebab, people.

LOL. How mean of you. Kebab? Poor Wash... *pets pets* But, yes, if you're going to write a post-BDM fanfiction, do not write Wash into it as being quite happily alive, as if a Reaver spear did not even touch him...

Though there is one fic out there that has Wash live but actually explains how the spear didn't go through him but took out his arm instead... makes for a lot of angst, but at least it doesn't use the dreaded words "Wash's alive but I won't explain why", which I've seen scarily too often.

And I also don't much mind pregnant Zoe, as long as it is well written and incorporated into a wider fanfiction. I like epics. I like adventure. I like to read about all characters in one fashion or another... prefer them to the vignettes or character pieces, but that doesn't mean I don't read them. I do stay away from solely PWP stories... I like me some plot. :)

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
Hoo, boy, you started me off on one here. Best sidle off and continue my own epic - 35,000 words and counting. Does this make it one of the monsters?

Hey, I like monsters and yours is quite good. I really like Jayne in your story and 'Larji is actually not a Mary Sue (the horror!), for which I'm very thankful. They're a very BIG pet-peeve of mine too. I actually came across a story in a livejournal that had another student from the Academy who could turn people invisible and stuff like that... Really! More Mary Sueish you couldn't have had...

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

TAYEATRA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 12:01 PM

Grammar.

Each and every time! Especially when it's the same mistake over and over in every fic by the author. I just sit there thinking, 'you were told about the error, fix it already!'

I'm not really a Mal/Simon fan although Kispexi2 made it seem reasonably believable. The only other thing that really bugs me is the obscenely short chapters. As in, the ones that are shorter than some thread posts. I mostly hate them because either nothing happens or they're very, very rushed and it's just bad writing.

I'm going to throw my support behind the epic from ScrewtheAlliance. I love it although I understand how it must feel if you haven't started it. In my mind it's the first firefly novel and I strongly suspect it will be better than the one due out later this year. StA's spelling and grammar is good and his characterisations are amusing. A good mix of humour and action and his OC's aren't annoying or overdone.

*****
Taya
*****
I'm going to S3!!!
(*Insert hysterical celebration dance here*)

PHOENIXROSE

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 12:13 PM

I like StA, too, but I have to disagree that the grammar is always good. He uses "your" for "you're" on a number of occasions in Kaylee's Lament (haven't started the other one yet) and isn't always consistant with the slang of each particular character. Over all, though, pretty good.
I'm kind of wondering, regarding the Wash issue, how exactly a huge Reaver spear through his middle would end up taking off his arm? That makes just about zero sense. Most ways I've heard on how Wash would be alive, in fact, make no sense. Hey, I'd like him to be and everything, but really. The "100% alive" thread is a good example of people kinda reaching. For one thing, the whole theory (I didn't read the whole thread, just the first few posts) revolves around the Alliance not only being on the ground first (they obviously weren't) but stopping at Serenity (which they might) and then putting a lot of effort into reviving the kebab in the pilot's seat (which I don't think they would since they had been ordered to blow up the ship and hence kill everyone inside) instead of immediately going after the fugitives. So that one doesn't work. Usually when there is a grave/funeral the character is not anything close to okay. So stories in that type of vein... no. I prefer stories that involve Zoe kind of coming apart at the seams and trying to deal with life. Wrote a very short one myself, actually.
Anyway. Ramble ramble ramble.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

XEYRA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tayeatra:
Grammar.

Each and every time! Especially when it's the same mistake over and over in every fic by the author. I just sit there thinking, 'you were told about the error, fix it already!'

I'm not really a Mal/Simon fan although Kispexi2 made it seem reasonably believable. The only other thing that really bugs me is the obscenely short chapters. As in, the ones that are shorter than some thread posts. I mostly hate them because either nothing happens or they're very, very rushed and it's just bad writing.

I'm going to throw my support behind the epic from ScrewtheAlliance. I love it although I understand how it must feel if you haven't started it. In my mind it's the first firefly novel and I strongly suspect it will be better than the one due out later this year. StA's spelling and grammar is good and his characterisations are amusing. A good mix of humour and action and his OC's aren't annoying or overdone.

Not to mention that River with the harmonica is a hoot. :) But, yes, if you don't start a fanfiction this big from the start it may be difficult to go back n chapters and read it, but look on the bright side... you won't have to wait for the next chapter for a while yet, which can be quite nail-bitting-inducing when it involves a fanfic you love.

As a side note: I'm not sure if any Firefly/Serenity novel is actually due out this year. Keith DeCandido explained that the book listed on Amazon should only be a placeholder and that the info about publishing date has no basis in fact, considering the proposals various authors sent to Pocket Books last year haven't been reviewed yet or at least no one has gotten back to the authors about it.

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

TAYEATRA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 12:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I like StA, too, but I have to disagree that the grammar is always good. He uses "your" for "you're" on a number of occasions in Kaylee's Lament.

Ooops my bad... I must have forgotten about that. It's been a while since I encountered his early piece.

*****
Taya
*****
I'm going to S3!!!
(*Insert hysterical celebration dance here*)

XEYRA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 12:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I like StA, too, but I have to disagree that the grammar is always good. He uses "your" for "you're" on a number of occasions in Kaylee's Lament (haven't started the other one yet) and isn't always consistant with the slang of each particular character. Over all, though, pretty good.
I'm kind of wondering, regarding the Wash issue, how exactly a huge Reaver spear through his middle would end up taking off his arm? That makes just about zero sense.

In this particular fanfic, he'd gotten off the pilot's chair a second or two earlier and thus the spear didn't hit him straight on but pined his arm. It was explained much better in the fanfiction, which was why I suspended my disbelief and read it as the AU it was. It had some very interesting character moments, filled with angst. I like angst... I'm screwed up like that. LOL. But there's no greatest angst than having Zoe without her Wash... *sobs*

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

NURUMLA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:36 PM

I don't mind so much if the writer wants to have Zoe be pregant after the movie. What gets me is they want to give the baby blue eyes. Blue eyes are a recessive gene. The chances that Zoe carries said gene because of her make up is low.

River reffering to herself entirely in the third person. You all pretty much have that one covered.

People saying that River doesn't need the drugs that Simon is supplying. That she is just putting up with them to make her brother happy. People cut into her brain and probably messed up it's chemical balance. Or if the balance isn't messed up the chemical reactions that normally take place in a heathly brain could not come across in such a place. The drugs she is given can probably make her brain think her imgedila(I have no idea how to spell it) is working just fine. Anyway, bottom line she needs the drugs and probably always will. She does not need love/sex/Jayne to fix her.

_____________________________________
the woods are lovely, dark, and deep
but I have promises to keep
and miles to go before I sleep

LEESHAJOY

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:44 PM

I don't mind pregnant-Zoe fics, but FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, people, do NOT name the kid "Hoban Junior"! That's just cruel!

DEEPGIRL187

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 3:08 PM

I've brought up my own peeves regarding fan fiction in another thread (it was my first post, as a matter of fact), but I'll re-iterate.

First, as I've said before, I really don't like Simon and Kaylee fics. It's nothing to do with the authors themselves (in fact, I've stumbled across some really well-written ones. Check out any of Tara O'Shea's work. "That Old Yeh Shen Story" has the funniest line in all fan fiction history). But being the dark person that I am, that particular pairing is too...cute, happy, just plain shiny! I need darkness, angst, people arguing!

Ahem.

Second has to be slash. Particularly male slash. It might be fun to entertain the theory of some of the girls together, but the guys? Can anyone honestly say that they could picture any of them in the sack? Right unsettling, if you ask me.

Thirdly, I'd have to say bad grammar, along with poor plot and character development. It's bad enough to constantly be pointing out spelling errors, but when you have a story that drags on and on or characters that are, well, out of character, I find something else to read.

*whew*

Okay, rant over. Had a lot of things to get off my chest.

*************************************************

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

EMBERS

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 3:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Xeyra:
Hi all,

I don't know if a thread like this has been posted in the past but I was curious about what kind of things are big no-no's in Firefly/Serenity fanfic for you.

I don't believe in 'no-no's'
and the only peeves I have is that there are never enough Jayne/River fan fic

and never enough Jayne/Inara fan fic

and never enough Jayne/Zoe fan fic

and never enough Jayne/Simon fan fic

and never any Jayne/Book fan fic (!)

there are plenty of Jayne/Kaylee however....

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse
have you checked out this thread?:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

and listen to 'I'm Going To See Serenity':
http://music.podshow.com/music/listeners/artistdetails.php?BandHash=a0
c814e1229742ce77ed4497cbf4631c

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 3:50 PM

What really gets my goat is third person omniscient narration, where the narrator goes on and on and on about how "Mal looked at Inara. He loved her so much, he wanted to die inside, he ached to hold her, and yet sometimes he was so angry he couldn't help being cruel..." yada, yada, yada. Especially if they then do someone else's internal state, too: "Inara saw Mal looking at her. She was so angry she couldn't speak, and yet she loved him so much..." You get the idea.

What with Firefly being a TV show to begin with, we aren't supposed to know exactly how the characters feel inside. TV shows are all about showing, not telling, and to my mind fanfic stories based on TV shows should do the same.

The exception here would be vignettes which are intended to be brief glimpses into a character, but which are not intended to be independent stories. If they ring psychologically true, then I can accept them as insightful but not part of the story, if you know what I mean.

I also have to admit I don't enjoy slasher and "Mary/Marty Sue" fic, because it tends to lack plausibility. I feel the same about stories with deux ex machina rescues, uncharacteristic dialogue from known characters, etc.

Oh, another thing (the more I write, the more I think of) -- I hate it when people re-use actual phrases or dialogue from the canon, word for word. People don't do that in real life; they don't quote themselves. They may allude to the same subjects, paraphrase themselves, say very similar things, but generally speaking we create language anew every time we use it.

Anyway, given all of the above, so far the best fanfic I've read have been the "What could have been" episodes on www.stillflying.net, and a vignette called "Fine Line" at http://firefly.populli.org/archive/4/fineline.shtml. These are really the only things I can recommend so far.

Indigo S.

XEYRA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 3:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
Quote:
Originally posted by Xeyra:
Hi all,

I don't know if a thread like this has been posted in the past but I was curious about what kind of things are big no-no's in Firefly/Serenity fanfic for you.

I don't believe in 'no-no's'
and the only peeves I have is that there are never enough Jayne/River fan fic

and never enough Jayne/Inara fan fic

and never enough Jayne/Zoe fan fic

and never enough Jayne/Simon fan fic

and never any Jayne/Book fan fic (!)

there are plenty of Jayne/Kaylee however....

Methinks someone likes Jayne quite a little bit... *big grin*

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

LEIGHKOHL

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:04 PM

Non-Cannon pairings. That's about it. I mean sometimes there are atrocious grammatical errors,which hurts the story, but nobody's perfect! Yeah, so, pretty much that's it. I despise Jayne/Kaylee just because it makes me feel dirty, as does Jayne /River, or Jayne/Simon....pretty much I think Jayne should stick with the whores and not sleep with any of the crew. I love him, I just don't want him lovin' on any member of Serenity. If you don't like something, just skip it!

GWEK

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:21 PM

Thanks for the kind words, Indigo S! I skimmed through the thread to see if we were mentioned (and, if so, how!) with a great deal of trepidation...

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

SPACEANJL

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:44 PM

Yep, Jayne makes me feel dirty, too...

But that ain't the point of this. Sorry.

I have to say, I never found the J/S slash fic. That scares me more than I care to conjure.

Nothing 'gainst it in the real world, but characters are written the way they are for a reason - don't be messin' with 'em.

SpaceAnJL

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:50 PM

Are you the Head Writer over there, Gwek? A screenwriter by trade or just really good at it?

Indigo S.

LEIASKY

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:56 PM

Pet Peeves. Hmm. I don't read crossover stories at all. Joss has said there are no aliens in the Firefly 'verse and I have no interest in seeing stories that take place in the Harry Potter/Buffy/Angel/Stargate universe.

I don't generally enjoy reading non cannon pairings either. Some of them just truly disgust me because the writer takes one or more of the characters out of character to justify a new pairing. Which just doesn't fly. The Jayne/Kaylee pairing is a huge example of this.

The spelling issues (because I'm sure I have some of my own) don't bother me as much as they probably should, but if they continue through multiple stories, it does tend to get annoying.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

LEIGHKOHL

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:01 PM

Good point Leiasky! Crossovers are pretty much a no go for me too. I like the 'verse just the way it is. Oh, and the blue eyes Wash/Zoe baby thing, yeah that's a real pisser.

AGENTROUKA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:09 PM

Pet peeves... An excuse to rant! *G*

Wrong characterisation. Always.

I mean, there are always going to be different interpretations of a character, but some things are just facts.

Mal is distrustful of strangers, not a noble hero swooping in to save every damsel.
Inara is a dignified adult woman, not a shrieking, hapless and easily manipulated victim.
Jayne has brains - but not too much.

And so on...

Then there's the Character Punishment Fic, where it's clear the author is writing to make a point of "showing Character X the evil of his/her ways", instead of developing things naturally from constellations given on the show. Making them pointlessly apologetic and others judgmental and angry beyond what is warranted.

Outlandish scenarios. Say, a man sending another man to have group sex with whores "against his will" as a punishment and expecting this to be taken seriously.

Oh God, and Mary-Sues. Mal's long-lost wife/love that he lost because he thought she was dead/she became a Companion (or almost)/her parents separated them, whatever. It burns. And if there was such a thing as a dead wife, it would have come up in "Our Mrs Reynolds" and Mal would sure as hell be more broken up about that than about the ending of the War unless he never really loved her at all, don't you think?

Excess in babies. One of them? Okay. Two of them? Outlandish. All of them? Just how are they going to run the ship??

Rape as an excuse to create intimacy between the victim her her "hero". If Kaylee gets brutally raped, this would likely change her forever. Forever. That's not something you can easily step away from again for a happy ending.

Making Inara look stupid by painting the Guild as some evil cult that abuses its members. She's a smart woman, why would she do that to herself, really? Why would any Companion?

Or writing an ensemble story and completely ignoring certain characters that would normally show up at least once or twice, without a good reason.

Then obviously there are the pairings that I don't want to read, but that's beside the point.

SAMEERTIA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:31 PM

:)
Okay, I gotta jump in here.
I'm currently in the middle of a project to write every possible character pairing on Serenity, just to see if it's at all possible. (Some of them are posted here already.)

Slash doesn't bother me. Non-cannon pairings challenge us to expand our personal viewing spaces and opinions. I guess because I'm bisexual and a substantial number of my friends are, too, I have fewer hang-ups about trying out different pairings to see if they work.

What does bother me?
BABIES!
Wash was right. Serenity is no place to try to raise a child and any parent in their right mind would get their child as far away from the possibilities of being shot, suffocated, or taken by the Alliance and put in an orphanage as possible!

Pets. Pets got no place on a ship like Serenity. In fact, first hungry spell comes along, you can bet Jayne would eat it.

Just plain bad writing is bad writing no matter what. Some things that really bug me: authors who don't have a feel for the characters; Mary-Sue/Stu's (to be distinguished from original characters who interact with the canon characters in a believable manner); complex side stories that try to explain things that are better left up to Joss (The origin of the Blue Hands, etc), and painfully bad dialogue.

Usually, I can tell if it's just plain bad writing, or if the writer is young or inexperienced but has potential as a writer.
I try to read and encourage the people

SAMEERTIA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Leighkohl:
Good point Leiasky! Crossovers are pretty much a no go for me too. I like the 'verse just the way it is. Oh, and the blue eyes Wash/Zoe baby thing, yeah that's a real pisser.

Actually, this doesn't bother me.
One interracial couple I know has three blue eyed babies with their mama's blond hair. They got their dad's curls and his darker skin, but they are definately blond and blue-eyed.
Throw-backs happen.

SMARTBUTDUMBBLONDE

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:50 PM

No offence to the writers, people Im sure the stories are actually really good. but I am thourghly fed up of scrolling down the fanfics and seeing nothing but Mal/Inara and Kaylee/Simon.
Never seen any of the slash fics, but damn, they sound scary!!
Gotta say I do love the Wash ones, but I have never, ever seen one all about Book! Where are the Book fans??
A few spelling/grammar mistakes are acceptable,because I'm slightly hopeless at said skills, and typing, but if you know you're truly awful, please use a spell checker!

I love Wash! Bring back Wash!

MAL4PREZ

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:58 PM

Wow. Yikes. I've only crossed a few of the lines in this thread, but now I feel all afraid of posting my monster fic with its many OCs...

OK, I'm overly sensitive. But I hope other writers reading this thread keep writing whatever their muse is telling them, whether or not it's someone's pet peeve!!

That said, let me join the bashing.

I'm so not a fan of weddings and babies. Not my thing. And actually, I don't like having characters be happy for long, it's just not the Jossian way. Conflict and drama, yay!!

I really dislike pairing River with anyone on Serenity. She's too young! And younger than 17 really, because she hasn't had so much practice being social. I'm guessing there wasn't a great dating scene at Brainfry Academy. She may be crazy and may read sex stuff in other people's minds, but I don't see her turning 18 and going seductress on Jayne or Mal. Icky ick!

Let's see... other than that... I don't mind slash, although it needs to be carefully done to shift the characters from their non-sly BDS selves, and build a believable rapport with their sly partner-to-be.

I don't like endless adventures with little or no character development. FF is not a star trek adventure, it's about the people and what they've been through and what they go through and how their relationships change. My mind gets numb to endless battles and new planets and etc. I want long, addictive character arcs!!

OK, stopping now. But all you baby/Rayne/RiverMal/adventure writers don't be offended, and keep writing, okay??

m4p

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

LEIASKY

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:13 PM

Forgot to add: real short (1 or 2 page) chapters that are part of a series are real annoying. Prologues and Epilogues are that short, a chapter is not.

Short stand alone stories are fine but short chapters, that the author just likes to 'get out' quickly instead of combining a bunch of them into one long chapter, are annoying as well.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

MAL4PREZ

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:28 PM

Just a side question - is there a word for River/Mal?

Malver?

Whatever. There's no good word because it just shouldn't happen!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

XEYRA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

Wow. Yikes. I've only crossed a few of the lines in this thread, but now I feel all afraid of posting my monster fic with its many OCs...

OK, I'm overly sensitive. But I hope other writers reading this thread keep writing whatever their muse is telling them, whether or not it's someone's pet peeve!!

I'm glad you said that. My intention when I created this thread was not to discourage anyone from writing. Everyone has their opinion, their tastes, and what may be one man's garbage is another's treasure, so if you're not into, I don't know, Jayne/River, or Jayne/Kaylee, someone will be! What is one person's opinion may not be another's, so if one has a certain pet-peeve, it doesn't mean others have it too.

I just wanted to know what kind of things in a fanfiction might make you turn away instead of reading and so far I've seen quite a lot of opinions, some of which very different from one another. It's so great to see that we're all fans of this 'Verse but have different opinions regarding it, insofar as fanfiction is concerned.

So, yes, mal4prez, you said it well: let no one be discouraged. Including you. I am one of those whoe don't mind OC's, as long as they're well-written, well-incorporated into the 'Verse and don't fall into a Mary Sue/Marty Sue complex. So don't be afraid of posting your story -- you'll find lots of fans around, I'm sure. :)

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

NOSADSEVEN

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:48 PM

Blue eyes in Zoe and Wash's baby do not bother me. Zoe's eyes could still be just as brown while she carries the recessive blue eyed gene, which would give her and Wash a 50% chance of having a blue-eyed baby. The real issue would be the likelyhood of Zoe carrying the recessive gene, but even that is not a stretch, IMO.

I can accept almost any storyline or pairing if the characterization is good, or at least in line with my own perception of the characters. Conversely, a story could be completely within canon and be unreadable for me due to poor characterization. Unintentionally bad grammar can be a nuisance, but overlooked if the characterization is good.

I just hate it when Mal sounds like a dumb hick. Joss's characters' ways of speaking tell so much about the character - who they are and where they are coming from. To lose that in a generic overly dumb-hick sounding accent brushed onto anyone but the core-worlders robs them of these defining characteristics. I am thrilled when an author can come up with dialogue that carries the same kind of poetry as Joss's.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

RAVENHAIR

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
:)
Pets. Pets got no place on a ship like Serenity. In fact, first hungry spell comes along, you can bet Jayne would eat it.

OMG! I laughed out loud and scared the dog when I read this!

As for my pet peeves:
slash
incorrect spelling, grammar (I'm a teacher)
OC's
and eveyone pairing up like it's the Love Boat! Honestly, I only see Kaylee and Simon being together. Mal has too many issues to really make a go with Inara. That said, I am a shameless Jaylee reader! I love those characters, but can only see them together in the fics not the show (is that weird?)

*****
Mal:We're still flying.
Simon: That's not much.
Mal: It's enough.

MAL4PREZ

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:51 PM

It is interesting to see what people are annoyed by! It's funny too - because everything brought up here, when it's in a fic, gets its postitive comments.

We got all kinds here.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

SAMEERTIA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:04 PM

Well, my theory is "don't like it, don't read it", so I very seldom leave negative comments. If I read something I don't like, that's fine, no need to drag someone down by stomping on their creative baby.

I will, however, if I see where an author seems inexperienced, make suggestions for improvement of their writing style as gently as possible.

MAL4PREZ

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
Well, my theory is "don't like it, don't read it", so I very seldom leave negative comments. If I read something I don't like, that's fine, no need to drag someone down by stomping on their creative baby.

I will, however, if I see where an author seems inexperienced, make suggestions for improvement of their writing style as gently as possible.

Good theory -

My BIGGEST pet peeve is when someone leaves a comment ripping on a fic that clearly stated it was slash, or was non-canon, or whatever!!

I forgot to agree about crossovers - I can't handle it. The one pseudo-exception being the "Nathan Fillion wakes up in the 'verse and has to be Mal" story. I forget who's writing it, but it's cleverly done and highly entertaining.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

SAMEERTIA

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:19 PM

I tend not to read cross-overs at all, but so far I've actually read two Highlander/Firefly cross-overs that worked fairly well.

Someone did that terrifying Brady Bunch thing that was downright hysterically funny.

Buffy/Firefly? Not so good. I mean, Joss specifically left aliens out of Firefly, and my feeling is that demons and vampires don't belong there either.

RMMC

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
I tend not to read cross-overs at all, but so far I've actually read two Highlander/Firefly cross-overs that worked fairly well.

Oooo! Could you please email the fic names to me?

Yeah, I'll admit it...*stands up ala and AA meeting* Hi, I'm RMMC and I like crossovers. They're fun. They're suppose to be fun. I figure it's got as much place in the 'verse as Rayne or Jaylee fics do.

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:

Someone did that terrifying Brady Bunch thing that was downright hysterically funny.

*shudder* That may be just a bit too scary for me.

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
Buffy/Firefly? Not so good. I mean, Joss specifically left aliens out of Firefly, and my feeling is that demons and vampires don't belong there either.

Again, I find these kinda fun. However...I am sick of the 'River is a Slayer' fics. Just once I'd like to see a 'Kaylee is a Slayer' fic just shake things up a bit, But then, I'm weird.

Quote:
Originally posted by Squid:
I would like to see Joss's face if the subject of Jayne/River or Mal/River ever came up. Or my favorite... Mal/Simon. WTH?

He's aware of this stuff, trust me. They had the same sort of stuff happening in Buffy fandom and it finally got to the point where Joss just made a quick joke out of it in an episode. (Buffy S7, 'Beneath You')

In all the parings I mentioned earlier I forgot completely about the slah ones. I've got one work: ick. Just my person taste. YMMV.

Big huge long fics....if they're novel length, there'd better be a gorram lot of character developement AND one heck of a plot, folks.

Deux ex machina...present it right and I'll read it. Heck, I happily watched it in the BDM.

And now...authors who are unsure of where the story is going. Yeah, this kinda bothers me, but I also understand how it happens as I've got a few folks I number as friends who write...professionally. There are times when you can plot your story within an inch of it's life, but when you go to write it, the characters just won't cooperate. This means you end up going in an unanticipated direction in your writing. (There's a really funny song called 'Railroad Bill' which kinda addresses the recalcitrant character issue.)

Wow...I got kinda wordy again. Sorry.

*****
RMMC

STEAMER

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:33 PM

Another thing that gets me, in Firefly and elsewhere, is when a fanfic writer seems to be deliberately misspelling a name. Like leaving the Y out of Jayne's name, or the E off of 'Washburne' and 'Frye', or 'Malcom', which drives me especially nuts. These are canon spellings, lads and lasses, and IMO they should be observed. One misspelling is one thing, but a succession of 'em? Sorry, no can do.

~
'Eta Gorram Na Smech!'
(That's gorram ridiculous!)

REGINAROADIE

Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:09 AM

The "Jayne eating the pet" comment suddenly made me think of that ep of THE SOPRANOS where Christopher was so high on heroin that he unknowingly sat on Adrianna's dog, which was this little rat/poodle called Cosette and killed it. And then later when he actually realizes what he's done, he says "She must've crawled under there for warmth." It still makes me laugh uncontrollably.

Jeez, after reading this tread, I'm starting to question everything I've ever written and posted on this site. But it's true that this thread shouldn't deter people from what they're writing. The way I see it, we're all fulfilling what we want to see involving our characters. If someone wants to write a Tolstoy lenth fanfic, go ahead. If someone wants x with y, go ahead. And if I want to read a fanfic involving Simon and River coming home and dealing with what happens after the fact with their parents and throw in a sub-plot involving the revival of rock music in a futuristic depression, then by god I'm gonna write it myself. No one else is gonna do it.

Peace

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"There's only one "Return" ok, and it ain't "of the King", it's "of the Jedi."

"Maybe we should start calling your friend 'Padme' because he loves 'Mannequin Skywalker' so much, Right? (imitating robot) Danger...danger...my name is Anakin...my shitty acting is ruining saga."

Excerpt of internet teaser for CLERKS 2.

PHOENIXROSE

Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
I'm currently in the middle of a project to write every possible character pairing on Serenity, just to see if it's at all possible. (Some of them are posted here already.)

I have read the ones you have up; they are quite good! Hold Me is the only Mal/Kaylee fic I've read, and I have to say I liked it. I never saw the characters together (wonder how many times I'm gonna say that?) but it did work pretty well. And I will admit I have a secret love of Zoe/Jayne. Obviously post-BDM! But I can really see those two together.
Anyway, please keep writing them and posting them here!

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

SAMEERTIA

Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:02 AM

Thanks PhoenixRose! I'm so glad you're enjoying them!
My Simon/Wash is almost done, as is Zoe/River. Probably up by the weekend, I think.

DCWASHINGTON

Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:56 AM

Hey all -

I personally, hate poor story thought. I find people just write and write without having a plan or even thinking 'what direction is my story going?'

I also prefer scripts to prose, because they are easier to read, and the end result is MUCH closer to watching a real Firefly episode.

Check out www.stillflying.net - script based continuation of Firefly from after OiS. Best fanfic out there, and I don't say that lightly. I was so impressed by their first season, that I joined them for their new shiny second season, airing now.

CANTONHEROINE

Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:08 AM

Someone mentioned the thing about Zoe & Wash's kid's eyes - mine is about eye colour in general. I've seen a few fics where Jayne's eyes have been described as brown or green and it just drives me insane. It especially irks the portrait-drawing side of me, cause the first thing I always notice about a person is their eyes.

I never read slash, but I don't have a problem with most other non-canon pairings and am a HUGE Jaylee fan.

Grammar and spelling are what turns me off reading a fic. I also have a problem with the misspelling of character's names. (Especially Inara). If the writer didn't make the effort to get it right, why should I make the effort to read it?

--*--*--*--*--

Check out my artwork:
http://s43.photobucket.com/albums/e365/CantonHeroine/Sketches
REN: "We're not hitchhiking anymore! We're RIDING!!"
Ren & Stimpy (Space Madness)

HAWKMOTH

Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:44 AM

Apart from the various grammar/punctuation mistakes that appear, it seems, in every fandom...

Over-use of Chinese. We rarely, if ever, heard it on the show for anything except swearing, short questions and the occasional greeting. It was there for flavor, a touch of the different. When it's used in fics for entire, multi-paragraph conversations, it's distracting and annoying. I don't care if translations are provided at the end of the story/chapter; it's just too much and way out of place.

I also dislike the tendency to overdo 'verse-speak. "Jist" for "just," "yer" for "your/you're," made-up spellings, too many dropped final consonants, etc. The dialogue on the show had a definite rhythm, with an Old West/Southern sound, but also influences of Elizabethan English. As mentioned somwehere above, making every character sound like a stereotypical hick just doesn't work.

Over-use of sentence fragments. They're fine in very small doses for narrative/dramatic effect. But entire paragraphs composed that way are wrong, wrong, wrong!

Finally, if I have one HUGE complaint about proper usage in Firefly fanfic, it's faulty punctuation of dialogue. I was even moved to devote an entire journal entry on that subject:

http://words-in-flight.livejournal.com/14637.html#cutid1

(And thanks for the oppurtunity ti rant!)

SPACEANJL

Thursday, May 25, 2006 12:09 PM

To follow on from Hawkmoth -

Every character has a unique 'voice', a different vocabulary and syntax. If done correctly, you should be able to read a page of dialogue and know who is saying what.

I'll admit to the dropped consonant school of writing, but I don't think it detracts, if you do it properly. (Immodest cough)

Read the scripts, watch the show, and hear it in your head. The only way to do it. Think about where these people come from, their levels of education (or otherwise.) The information is all there, if you look for it.

SpaceAnJL

PHOENIXROSE

Thursday, May 25, 2006 12:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CantonHeroine:

Someone mentioned the thing about Zoe & Wash's kid's eyes - mine is about eye colour in general. I've seen a few fics where Jayne's eyes have been described as brown or green and it just drives me insane.

I haven't seen that one, but it would certainly irk me. What I have seen is the hair color desription being off. I haven't stopped reading a good story because of it, but I kinda yell at the screen every time I see, for example, Wash's hair described as red. Kaylee's hair is also described as red in some cases. Hers has red tones to it, but it's mostly brown, and Wash is completely blond.
I agree completely that if names are spelled wrong there's no point in reading the rest. The best fics are written by really hard core fans, and any true fan can spell the names perfectly.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

XEYRA

Thursday, May 25, 2006 12:54 PM

Oh my God. I've created a monster. LOL. Just kidding.

I've been loving all your opinions. I'm glad to see that there are different tastes for everyone. Some like certain pairings, others don't.

And pretty much everyone has some problem with bad grammar and mispelled names (everytime I see someone write Malcom I have an overbearing huge to knock my head against the keyboard, but I don't 'cause I like my head to be whole, thank you very much).

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

MAVOURNEEN

Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:41 PM

I think it's important to remember that fanfic is almost always born from the writer's need for the series / characters to go on...for them to live another day. While not always done to what "You or I" would write, respect the fact that the writer felt compelled to write, and to share it with the world. It is a nerve-wracking moment…hitting that submit button and knowing your fiction, your idea of “What Happens Next” is available to anyone, anywhere, at anytime.

That said, I must admit I read a slash story with Wash giving Mal a hummer in the Mess and I was nauseated. Just. Wouldn't. Happen.

I can deal with crossover. I can deal with Original Characters. I can deal with the occasional Mary Sue. I can deal with X rated scenes.

I can't deal with non-canon actions and dialogue.

Agentrouka posted this previously in this thread:

“I mean, there are always going to be different interpretations of a character, but some things are just facts.

Mal is distrustful of strangers, not a noble hero swooping in to save every damsel.
Inara is a dignified adult woman, not a shrieking, hapless and easily manipulated victim.
Jayne has brains - but not too much.

And so on...”

Yep. Yep, Triple Yep.

I personally would rather read one long story/novella than 4,000 ½ page chapters. But hey, that’s just me.

I’ve read some AMAZING stories. I’ve read stories where I’ve questioned the sanity of the writer. I’ve read everything in between. The point is, I’ve read… and shared the author’s urge for the character to live on. To find out “What Happens Next.”

"Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?"

SAMEERTIA

Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:48 PM

:D
Not to mention you go through quite a few keyboards that way! I cured myself of it by buying an expensive laptop. I don't dare slam my head into it.

I think using slang spellings works if it's how the character speaks, it gives the essence of the character's voice. Mal says, "Y'all", Zoe doesn't. She says "You". Simon has the crispest pronunciation on the shi'P' and an author should try to capture that as best they can with his dialogue.
Kaylee says, Capt'n almost slurred to Capmm UNLESS she's teasing him, "Captain Tightpants". She doesn't say "Cap", not that I can recall.

The trick is to recall each voice and bring it to life through words.

ps- I LOATHE Script format fanfic! I want to feel, see and sense each character, set and scene. Script format seems to me like a lazy way to get out of true descriptive writing.

EMMARIGBY

Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mavourneen:

I can deal with crossover. I can deal with Original Characters. I can deal with the occasional Mary Sue. I can deal with X rated scenes.

I can't deal with non-canon actions and dialogue.

Yay! Someone who doesn't feel sickened by my embarrassing pervertions (I'm talking here of cross-over fic - for those who like to mash all the good stuff in their life into one fun, if not altogether authentic, package!)

I am glad to see the range of likes and dislikes on this site. After all there is room in the world for all styles (except the badly written!) and if something isn't your cup of mudders milk you can always click the back button!

EKIDD79

Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:26 PM

Use original characters, but please don't base them on yourself especially when they then have a relationship with a main character it just don't sit right.

Take notice of how characters react and their dialogue, I hate totally non-canon situations.

Oh and stay away from Xovers, they rarely work.

And don't turn it into an epic, I rarely read fanfic which is into chapter twentysomething, it usually loses the orignal story and dynamic. Think beginning, middle and end, turn it into several 'episodes' or sequels if you have to, but don't over do it.

Finally check your spelling and grammar, the basics work best...and if you start a fanfic, for gods sake finish it....don't leave us hanging!

SAMEERTIA

Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:47 PM

ekidd79,

Please take care. This about personal pet peeves, not about trying to discourage any writer from creating what their heart desires, be that a cross-over or original character/mary sue fic.

If you don't like them, that's fine, and you're welcome to say so, but others DO like them, enjoy reading and writing them. Please don't stomp on their creative babies just because you don't like them.

EKIDD79

Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:56 PM

It's about personal pet peeves and those were mine...I've read and written ALOT of fan fiction in the last few years and I would never discourage anyone to write, but with criticism people can only improve their writing.

SAMEERTIA

Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:58 PM

And I quote:

Quote:
Originally posted by ekidd79:
Oh and stay away from Xovers, they rarely work.

And don't turn it into an epic, I rarely read fanfic which is into chapter twentysomething, it usually loses the orignal story and dynamic. Think beginning, middle and end, turn it into several 'episodes' or sequels if you have to, but don't over do it.

This is telling people WHAT to write based on your personal preferences, which is NOT what this thread is about.

Not your cup of tea? FINE! Say that you don't enjoy them, but don't tell the author not to write them.

Can you see the difference?

EKIDD79

Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:07 PM

Thanks for the criticism, duely noted.

EMMARIGBY

Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ekidd79:
It's about personal pet peeves and those were mine...I've read and written ALOT of fan fiction in the last few years and I would never discourage anyone to write, but with criticism people can only improve their writing.

Yes, but there's a subtle but important difference in saying 'I don't like to read' rather than 'You should not write'.

As previously stated, I happen to like xover stories. It's true that at their worst they're awful but done well they make me squeal with joy (I am a simple soul!)

Sometimes even the truley self-indulgent Mary Sue stories are fun to read, just to laugh fondly at someone else's private (or not so private) fantasies!

I particularly liked this rather cruel but accurate parady of a Lord of the Rings Mary Sue ficlet over at fanfiction.net

www.fanfiction.net/s/1004203/1/

Sadly I've seen some on there that are almost as bad! It does point out some big no-nos though!

JOSSISAGOD

Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:30 PM

Not fond of Jaylee, Mal/Kaylee or River/Jayne, River/Mal. other than that I love the fanfic. Oh, and the length of a story makes me stop reading, if it's too long i get disinterested.

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

DIZ

Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:41 PM

Give me a story that's well-written, has a snap-cracking plot, and characters that ring true, and I'll accept almost anything.

One thing that bugs is when "'verse speak" is used during narration. For instance, "Mal took the gun while shakin' his head; he dinit knowed what were worse: the fact that River done kissed him, or that she had bin so creative-like wit her tongue." It's especially bad when it's not inner-dialog. And even if it's inner dialog, people tend to think better grammar then they speak. So Mal might drop his g's in words ending in -ing when speaking, but it's doubtful that's how he thinks. It's also very distracting to read, and doesn't tend to flow.

I'm not fond of frequent changes in point-of-view. It can be confusing if first it's Mal's point-of-view, then next sentence, Inara, and so forth. It's easier to read fic that shifts point of view no more then once a paragraph; but I think scenes work better if there is one consistent point-of-view per scene.

I do enjoy inner dialog, because what's the point of reading fiction if one does not get in the head of the characters?

And finally, fics that start out but never get finished. I'm not guilty of that at all. *ahem* (I've been working on my fic forever, and hope one day to have it done and posted; but I rushed it and posted the chapters I had just written, and regretted it, then vowed not to post until it was done.)

---------------------------------
Welcome to Serenity - Joss Whedon

XEYRA

Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Diz:
Give me a story that's well-written, has a snap-cracking plot, and characters that ring true, and I'll accept almost anything.

Amen to that!

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

LAUGHINGMUSE

Friday, May 26, 2006 5:45 AM

Someone else mentioned that they don't enjoy reading Simon/Kaylee fic because it's too nice, and this person prefers a bit of darkness. I agree...with a slight addendum:

I enjoy the well-written S/K stories, but I do dislike the near-reflexive, nice but kind of simplistic "they get married, they raise a family" plotline. Simon's still technically running from something rather than to something. He left his old life to get River away from harm, but I doubt that he thought beyond getting River away from the Academy. As such, he's been living in "reaction" mode for the past year, without the material comforts to which he was accustomed. What will happen when he looks around, takes stock, and begins to see that his sister doesn't absolutely require his full attention and support to live - even thrive? Will he look forward to staying on Serenity, including the arguments with the captain and sniping with Jayne? When will he feel that he's valued on Serenity? And until he does...what effect will that have on Simon and Kaylee's relationship? What does he want? What does she want? How will they go about deciding that for themselves, deciding that for the two of them, working out a compromise? Or will they just settle for living for the day, because they don't know how to plan for anything together but don't want to let go of a bright spot in their lives? (Because that never happens in real life. Nooooooooo...)

People - there's gold in them thar plotbunnies. Darkness and struggle and stories and fiction without having to go into Deepest Darkest Angst Country.

There are days when I really wish I could write fanfic longer than a vignette. All I can do is Armchair Ficwrite.

(Sincere apologies to the original poster of this sentiment - but I don't remember which poster you were!)

---------------------------------
Mankind makes tools; we use them to augment our hands, arms and legs.
The computer augments the brain and this makes it very unpopular with totalitarians. - Charles J.C. Lyall

MAVOURNEEN

Friday, May 26, 2006 1:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LaughingMuse:
Simon's still technically running from something rather than to something. He left his old life to get River away from harm, but I doubt that he thought beyond getting River away from the Academy. As such, he's been living in "reaction" mode for the past year, without the material comforts to which he was accustomed. What will happen when he looks around, takes stock, and begins to see that his sister doesn't absolutely require his full attention and support to live - even thrive? Will he look forward to staying on Serenity, including the arguments with the captain and sniping with Jayne? When will he feel that he's valued on Serenity? And until he does...what effect will that have on Simon and Kaylee's relationship? What does he want? What does she want?

---------------------------------
Mankind makes tools; we use them to augment our hands, arms and legs.
The computer augments the brain and this makes it very unpopular with totalitarians. - Charles J.C. Lyall

This is exactly the "within canon" sentiments most people who read fic are asking for...regardless of whether the fic is set pre or post BDM. It has to ring true. Where is the next logical place for that character to be in time and space? Expand their horizons, but make it ring true.
I enjoy reading fic that introduces Original Characters - hell, where would we be without Atherton Wing, Nandi, or Jubal Early? They were all single episode characters...the closest equivalent of an OC. Their presence enhances the continuing storyline.

My petpeeve is non-canon action and dialoge for the crew. Simon and Kaylee may knock boots, but there will be no "White Picket Fence" for them.

"Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?"

ELOISA

Friday, May 26, 2006 1:58 PM

Indigostarblaster mentioned above that s/he thinks third subjective is a big no-no. As someone who's written well over a million words all told, IMO third subjective is the best way to write any novel that isn't either a straight thriller or the type of old-school hard SF that was in vogue fifty years ago, and it seriously annoys me when authors don't use it in its place. Actions and dialogue alone don't make most stories work; character perspective is very important. Even something as simple as the fact that different characters put different emphasis on different things in their surroundings is important - effective internal dialogue is as crucial as spoken dialogue in the effective depiction of a canon character. In addition, shifting perspectives in the right way makes a long story far richer. For what I mean, please see Mal4prez's The Fish Job, especially round about chapters 11-16 where Mal's perspective on the ongoing situation clashes strongly with that of his crew. It's all very well to say that we're fanficcing a TV show, but unless we're writing script format we're writing short stories, novellas or novels. The rules differ.

That said, poor characterisation of any character in thought, word or deed annoys me. My favourite peeves including making Simon (and Kaylee) too nice or passive, making Inara too helpless (she's clearly had combat training, for instance) or too free with her emotions, making Jayne too nice and making Zoe too feminine outside of her private time with her emotional battering ram of a husband. River's level of sanity is an obvious problem because it's unclear how stable she is at the end of the BDM, so anything plausible is fine by me, as with Mal's evolution at the end (whether he is easier or harder to live with - there are arguments on both sides).

Plausibility. Hm. From believable characterisation comes believable plot. It's the same thing as effectively building the characters; if the story doesn't work or has gaping holes in it, I'll be dissatisfied. As a result, I dislike almost all post-BDM fics where Wash and Book are alive. The one counter-example is How I Soar, an AU where Zoe dies instead of Wash, a theory that works well in context.

Non-canon pairings, again, need to be plausibly written to catch my eye. People have mentioned Rayne - there are a few Raynes out there where they don't just turn round, look at each other and meet in a moment of animal passion, which is dreadful for any pairing, but where they slowly work out the issues and end up together almost by accident. The same has to apply to slash fiction, but I'll read it with pleasure if it's good. I've actually written non-canon slash in other fandoms, but wouldn't attempt it in Firefly as I see it as too difficult for me to find a way to make it work. That's my attitude to how rare good slash in this fandom is (and exactly how good the good slashers are).

Any OCs, not just obvious Mar(t)y S(t)ues, annoy me unless they are as carefully constructed as any character in that position would be in an original novel. (Gideon in Kaynara's Bed and Wine, for instance, is a positive example.)

Poor spelling and grammar kills my enjoyment of a story unless it is used for emphasis by a writer who can clearly use perfect grammar if necessary (it does so to the extent that I'd just delightedly read five or so chapters of a story at once (on another site), and a single misspelt word threw me off for the next three). Like various posters above, it annoys me if authors use too many artifically contracted words for a character's speech, as opposed to an appropriate level of slang.

Chinese doesn't bother me too much. Inara's greeting to the older man at the ball in Shindig suggests that it is used for long conversations in canon as well as for substitute vulgarity to beat the US censors.

***
http://forums.ffonline.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19
Creative Writing

XEYRA

Friday, May 26, 2006 2:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mavourneen:
I enjoy reading fic that introduces Original Characters - hell, where would we be without Atherton Wing, Nandi, or Jubal Early? They were all single episode characters...the closest equivalent of an OC. Their presence enhances the continuing storyline.

I don't mind OCs. In fact, I quite like them... when they're done well.

It seems fandom, whatever it is, has a tendency to have a frightening number of female or male original characters that border or are, without a doubt, Mary Sues/Marty Stues, too perfect to be true, more powerful than any canon character, who save the day and get to be the love of a beloved canon character. Too many times OCs tend to fall into this trap, of being just a bit too perfect. Of being too... two dimensional. I really hate those kinds of OCs.

On the other hand, I love a well done original character, with strengths and weaknesses, with a belieavable story, with an actual personality instead of an aglomeration of all known virtues or somesuch. I've found quite a few stories in the Firefly 'verse that introduce some really cool and interesting new characters, even if some of them desmontrate a few Sue/Stue characteristics, but I don't mind them so much because the characters are actually truly fleshed out and they fit well!

When they're done well, when they are written by someone who really knows how to write and doesn't fall into the trap of making their OC just a bit too powerful or perfect, then I absolutely love them. But when I read "long flowy hair" and "violet eyes" and "psychic" in the same sentence, I tend to hit the back button if I'm smart or continue reading with dread if I'm feeling sufficiently masochistic that day...

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

DEEPGIRL187

Friday, May 26, 2006 2:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LaughingMuse:
(Sincere apologies to the original poster of this sentiment - but I don't remember which poster you were!)

No apology needed; that was me. And I certainly agree with your point; depth of character is a nice thing to have. For second there, I thought I was the only one that had a beef with S/K fics.

**************************************************

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

SAMEERTIA

Friday, May 26, 2006 3:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Xeyra:
[When they're done well, when they are written by someone who really knows how to write and doesn't fall into the trap of making their OC just a bit too powerful or perfect, then I absolutely love them. But when I read "long flowy hair" and "violet eyes" and "psychic" in the same sentence, I tend to hit the back button if I'm smart or continue reading with dread if I'm feeling sufficiently masochistic that day...

Ertia tossed her long red hair over shoulder, gazing sulkily at Jayne with her dark hazel green eyes. Since Blue Sun had stripped her natural psychic abilities, she could no longer drink his simple sexual thoughts. She would have to wait for him to come to her.

Yah...okay, see what you mean.

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

Friday, May 26, 2006 5:58 PM

Hey Eloisa,

I take your point about the fact that third person subjective is the way most fiction is supposed to be written. You're right; almost everything I read is third person subjective and I never even notice it.

But I really do dislike a lot of Firefly fanfic written in third person subjective. Hmm... I think it's because I'm reading it mostly because I miss the TV show -- I want the TV show back, not a novel or written piece of fiction at all -- and so I get annoyed reading lengthy descriptions of the characters' insides, because I picture the TV screen with the characters just standing there, not doing anything.

And maybe that's why I actually really liked "Fine Line", even though that's third person subjective from Inara's point of view; I can picture exactly what she's doing while she's thinking :)

At the end of the day, I guess good writing is good writing and can break any rules and violate any pet peeves.

Indigo S.

REGINAROADIE

Friday, May 26, 2006 6:30 PM

Even though in my story Kaylee's five months along, I've actually thought about the whole conundrum you've brought up. I wanted there to be a story where Simon and River go home and deal with what has happened with their family with their folks. I've read some reunion stories that are similar in nature, but they all seem rushed to me, mainly because they're still fugees and the whole "The Alliance is coming" thing always makes them leave early before anything is really resolved. So basically the main reason why I decided to bankrupt the Alliance was so that they could reunite with their folks without having to worry about being caught. They'll leave when they're good and ready.

The reason why it's taking so long for me to write this story and post chapters of it is for two reasons. 1) Work and regular life with school and summer jobs and 2) I really want my story to be incredibly well written. Everything you've mentioned at one point on this thread I'm taking into consideration so that I can write something more emotionally honest and better than anything out there.

LaughingMuse, I'd like to know what you think of my story, YOU CAN'T GO HOME AGAIN and if addresses your issues with S/K fanfics.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"There's only one "Return" ok, and it ain't "of the King", it's "of the Jedi."

"Maybe we should start calling your friend 'Padme' because he loves 'Mannequin Skywalker' so much, Right? (imitating robot) Danger...danger...my name is Anakin...my shitty acting is ruining saga."

Excerpt of internet teaser for CLERKS 2.

JILLARROWAY

Friday, May 26, 2006 6:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Steamer:
Another thing that gets me, in Firefly and elsewhere, is when a fanfic writer seems to be deliberately misspelling a name. Like ... 'Malcom', which drives me especially nuts. These are canon spellings, lads and lasses, and IMO they should be observed.

Sorry to dispute, but it's spelt "Malcom" in the movie. Three times. Check out when the Operative is looking up Mal's war records. Some of them are in the deleted scenes. You'll need freeze frame.

How much more canon does it get?

DIZ

Friday, May 26, 2006 6:54 PM

Those are simply misspellings. I suppose a case could be made that it is a canon spelling, but Joss always spells it "MalcoLm", and it's that way is in his script.

---------------------------------
Welcome to Serenity - Joss Whedon

JILLARROWAY

Friday, May 26, 2006 7:04 PM

Yes, it is spelt "Malcolm" in the script. But it's also spelt "Malcom" in the movie. So which is more canon, where script and movie contradict?

Could it really be a mis-spelling? Mal's war record? As delivered from the Alliance by computer to an Operative of the Parliament? Could it really be mis-spelt three times?

Those screens in the movie really are there. Go check. And nowhere in the TV series do we ever see either spelling written down.

Just causing trouble! :-)

I don't really care either way. But there is certainly no need to criticize those fanfic authors who spell it "Malcom". It could be they did that on purpose because they, too, use the freeze frame button, and care enough to get the detail right (by which I mean, consistent with the movie). It could be, in other words, that they are simply more geeky than those who criticise.

DIZ

Friday, May 26, 2006 7:54 PM

Well, when I said "misspellings", I meant on the part of the production crew that made the screens up (and somehow the director must have missed it. ;)).

In any case, Joss is the creator of Mal, and so how he has always spelled the name trumps how it was in the movie, to me at least. Tho, as I said, it can be argued to be canon. I just believe it's a flub, and not intentional.

It might be picky, but these are pet-peeves, which tend to be picky little things. :) For myself, spelling Mal's name wrong doesn't bug so much because it's a fairly subtle spelling error (and then there is always the movie to support the spelling), but misspelling Jayne as Jane, or Inara and Anara or something just really bothers me because it jumps right off the page and screams "wrong!" to me. But that's just me. :)

---------------------------------
Welcome to Serenity - Joss Whedon

13

Friday, May 26, 2006 8:01 PM

Personally, I hate myself for posting 'original' fics, thinking they'd do well and be praised.

How wrong I was...

-13

LEIASKY

Friday, May 26, 2006 8:32 PM

>Personally, I hate myself for posting 'original' fics, thinking they'd do well and be praised.

Well, typically, we like fanfic because it takes the characters we all know and love and puts them in situations we want to read about, or that we think would have happened if the series had gone on long enough.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

LAUGHINGMUSE

Friday, May 26, 2006 11:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
LaughingMuse, I'd like to know what you think of my story, YOU CAN'T GO HOME AGAIN and if addresses your issues with S/K fanfics.

Hi reginaroadie,

I dropped a message to you through the FFF system. Short answer, that story avoids two of my listed peeves, but it doesn't really address the evolution of their relationship on its own.

---------------------------------
Mankind makes tools; we use them to augment our hands, arms and legs.
The computer augments the brain and this makes it very unpopular with totalitarians. - Charles J.C. Lyall

13

Saturday, May 27, 2006 12:44 AM

Good point, Leiasky..

Perhaps the two crews could meet up? Friends or enemies? Got me a'thinking...

-13

VELOXI

Saturday, May 27, 2006 5:56 AM

My pet peeve? That it exists at all. ;) Sorry, but I hate fan-fic, it's usually a jumbled mess of shoddy ideas and bad writing mixed with egotism.

NOSADSEVEN

Saturday, May 27, 2006 6:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JillArroway:
Yes, it is spelt "Malcolm" in the script. But it's also spelt "Malcom" in the movie. So which is more canon, where script and movie contradict?

Could it really be a mis-spelling? Mal's war record? As delivered from the Alliance by computer to an Operative of the Parliament? Could it really be mis-spelt three times?

Those same screens also say he was a Captain in the war, that he's about 50 years old, and that he got a commendation for his actions at Serenity Valley from what would then be a defunct military command. That his name is spelled incorrectly on those screens just reassures me that the other inconsistant information on them is more likely flub than fact.

IIRC, the original intention was for the relavent information to be divulged through dialogue, rather than the visual screens, so there may not have been quite as close an oversight on them as one would expect. Or one could simply fanwank that the Alliance's databases are as wildly inaccurate as those of today. (Have you ever checked your credit report?)
......

But back to fanfic...

Someone commented liking script form better. I really prefer 3rd person subjective myself, because the script is incomplete without the actors and all else that goes into a tv production. In written form, it is the author's responsibility to get across everything that (for instance) Nathan does when he just "stands there" as Inara tells Mal that she's leaving.

Oh, and...yay Fish Job citation!

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

BLUEEYEDBRIGADIER

Saturday, May 27, 2006 7:21 AM

My fan fic pet peeves, huh? Well, gotta agree with the mob and say poor writing (i.e. improper spelling/grammar/punctuation) drive me batty. Hence the reason I volunteer to help out my fellow Browncoats concerning the need for beta readers. Though I find you have to be careful, especially if ya want to write something of your own, that you don't start messing with the overall message and actions

Really can't say anything else specifically....cuz really, I am willing to suspend my disbelief for almost anything if the author has made an attempt to take the 'Verse and play with in ways that are plausible but probably not possible for one Joss-based reason or another. I mean....not really into slash unless the author explains things out sufficiently on how the couple got together and why and the issues they face being a couple. And OCs can be cool...if one tries to make them at least more than a 2D Mary Sue/Marty Stu. The crew ain't perfect and anyone who was would cause major friction amongst our BDHs; letting the characters have flaws is the best idea you can have....as long as they aren't completely ruled by them;)

And concerning epics like Screw's "Kaylee's Lament" and "The Treasure of Lei Fong Wu?" Yeah...they be long and complex. I will admit up front I have sadly forgotten plot points from chapters ago. But I am still enthralled by Screw's dedication and skills. Or the "Genius" series (whose author I have sadly forgotten )...that series is getting into the 40s. Still loving it to pieces

Really...we all have different tastes in things. We were damn lucky that Joss Whedon managed to create something like Firefly that managed to satisfy our appetites, and the series appealed to us for different reasons. I eagerly await every fanfic (at least at first) just to see what my fellow Browncoats have come up with. Yeah...some ideas are probably gonna end up failing miserably. So what? I'll be honest and polite by explaining that certain things didn't seem to work, but that the person did something wonderful by writing.

BEB

Literature has shown us some of humanity's greatest achievements; history, some of our greatest failures -- Alun Lewis

SPACEANJL

Saturday, May 27, 2006 1:44 PM

Gonna roar on in with another rant here.

Just read another Rayne baby fic. Hate 'em. Hate 'em with a passion. Sorry, but these tweak me into Reaver mode. I don't think River is ready to be a mother in any way, shape or form. (If she can - what kind of drugs has she got through her system?) As I've said, I just can't see Rayne fic, which is just my bad, but I also think this sitch is just a no. In fact, I'm gonna jump off this now, or I'll end up in troll country, 'cos these are Mary-Sue/white picket fence/gak issues for me...

sums it up really. Sorry. I don't like to shoot anybody's plotbunnies (though I got me a real good recipe for rabbit casserole - mebbe I'll post it...)

SpaceAnJL

MAL4PREZ

Saturday, May 27, 2006 2:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Veloxi:
My pet peeve? That it exists at all. ;) Sorry, but I hate fan-fic, it's usually a jumbled mess of shoddy ideas and bad writing mixed with egotism.

Ouch! But I must admit, I felt like you did at first. And then I got lucky and read some good ones.

I find going from the Strawberry Awards nominees gets me to some very well written ones. So well written that I've found myself accepting some crazy couples and situations.

No Malver or Rayne though. I still can't take that.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

SMARTBUTDUMBBLONDE

Saturday, May 27, 2006 2:47 PM

I have carefully read every post on this page, so I can make the next fanfic I write as good as posible.Thanks for the pointers. Right now, I'm working on a fanfic with an one main and a couple minor OCs(not gonna tell you who, because that will spoil it.) And I'm now going to work hard to make sure they won't be perfect, as it was beginning to look like the main OC might have been. Also, I'm finishing it on paper before I post it, since it would drive me mad if I'd been reading a fairly long chaptered story that suddenly stopped because the writer ran out of muse juice.

Damn you Fox!! Damn you to Hades!!

XEYRA

Saturday, May 27, 2006 2:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
No Malver or Rayne though. I still can't take that.

I kind of like a good Mal/River fanfic, as long as they don't ignore Inara, which is a character I very much like. I like Mal and I like River, and thought I'd love to see more non-romantic fics focusing on their relationship, I don't mind a well-written Mal/River. Some writers actually make it work.

Rayne, on the other hand, just doesn't work for me. Haven't come across a single one I could really get into, that could convert me, mostly because I don't think River would act the way some of these Rayne fanfics make her act. Jayne developing some attraction to River is hard enough since he never did like her (but who knows, maybe he appreciates someone who can kick his butt), but River? Doesn't compute.

Maybe it's our interpretations of the characters that make certain pairings possible or not in our heads. We all have different views of what the characters might or might not do. I'm glad that there is such a variety of tastes and writers in this 'Verse, because everyone can find a fanfic or ten that caters to their tastes. :)

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

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