Firefly Fanfiction: What Are Your Pet-Peeves?

POSTED BY: Xeyra
UPDATED: Friday, November 30, 2012 02:57
VIEWED: 59804
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DARWINSHANDMAIDEN

Saturday, May 27, 2006 3:34 PM

I don't like "Surprise!" pregnancies. This is five hundred years in the future - birth control has got to be a lot better than it is now. I can't see any of the female characters getting pregnant unless it it's a deliberate action on their part to do so. For that matter, I think that men are just as responsible for birth control too. Simon is not only a doctor, he's very responsible. If he starts doing the horizontal bob with Kaylee, he's going to make sure that they do not go forth and multiply.

I picks them up, I drops them off

SPACEANJL

Saturday, May 27, 2006 5:41 PM

Thank you to Xeyra and Darwinshandmaiden for putting into more coherent language what I was trying to convey a little earlier. BTW, Xeyra, I think I might be working on a little something you'll like in the future.

Writer's peeve;

I'll quite happily accept criticism of my writing, as long as the person has the guts to sign the thing. Anonymous reviews, particularly nasty ones, are unwelcome. I've had a couple of curt and rude flames. You don't like it, either read something else or make a helpful suggestion.

SpaceAnJL

XEYRA

Saturday, May 27, 2006 6:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
BTW, Xeyra, I think I might be working on a little something you'll like in the future.

You are? Really? Wanna give a hint? *looks at you with puppy-dog eyes, all eager to know what's this about 'cause she is awfully curious and little things like this drive her crazy*

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

LEIASKY

Saturday, May 27, 2006 8:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:

Writer's peeve;

I'll quite happily accept criticism of my writing, as long as the person has the guts to sign the thing. Anonymous reviews, particularly nasty ones, are unwelcome. I've had a couple of curt and rude flames. You don't like it, either read something else or make a helpful suggestion.

SpaceAnJL

Oh, what's my oh so fun favorite thing in the whole wide world is where someone leaves a signed comment and someone else privately e-mails and flames you because they don't agree with your comment. All credibility flies out the window when someone does that. Expressing ones opinions maturely (read NOT trying to flame them or tell them rudely why they are wrong) way is a far better way to get someone to listen to what you have to say.

It's happened to me, its happened to friends of mine. People that privately attack someone (of course, they're all fluffy and nice in comments they make in public) truly disgust me.

What writers don't seem to 'get' is that when you publish your work in a public forum that allows for comments, that people ARE going to comment and give you constructive criticism. You aren't always going to get happy, fluffy comments that make you feel good about yourself.

If I feel someone is out of character, I'm damn well going to tell you. If I see a plot hole, I'm going to point it out. Does the writer have the right to disagree with me? Sure. But I have the right to express my opinion as well.

You have to learn to take the good with the bad. I don't much like Anon reviews either, but sometimes even if I think they're worded a bit harshly, if I look at the comments a different way, perhaps they really aren't so harsh.

Of course, some of them are, but that isn't always going to be the case.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

SQUISH

Sunday, May 28, 2006 3:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ravenhair:
Honestly, I only see Kaylee and Simon being together. Mal has too many issues to really make a go with Inara. That said, I am a shameless Jaylee reader! I love those characters, but can only see them together in the fics not the show (is that weird?)
Quote:

Yes that is weird! LOL, I only say this cause I feel like I know you. *g*

SQUISH

Sunday, May 28, 2006 4:30 AM

Jumping into the fray here, lord help me!

Clearly the grammar issue is a big problem in fics, but I've actually been amazed at the quality of writing in the Firefly fandom. Although than/then really irks me.

Characterization is also an issue for me, but that said, quite frankly fanfiction is ALL non-canon and I happen to be a person who is waiting for the writer to take me where they want. So, as others have said, I can suspend belief in some instances and just go with the story.

I would have to say most of my pet-peeves lately have been with commenters (as a new writer of fanfic). Critical comments are absolutely fine as long as they aren't cruel or out of line, and quite frankly as long as they aren't just griping about how you don't like a particular pairing. It's fine if you don't like it, but the author chose to write that and they clearly do like it, so why bash that?? I really don't get it, why not just refrain from reading it? There have been some very negative (bordering on abusive) comments recently on this board and I really wish it would stop. We are all Browncoats and should be somewhat supportive. If you read something you just don't like, then stop and think about whether you really need to make a snide comment about it. Constructive comments are very helpful, but also consider that some authors are exploring various aspects of these characters (not just sticking with a stereotypical view of them). Now, that's not to say that some fanfic doesn't get a little off-base. I'm just SO tired of people being adament that the way they see a particular character is the only way that character can be (Joss wrote them as complex, multi-dimensional characters, not stereotypes).

My real pet peeve is how people perceive Jayne. Many authors (and commenters) believe he is stupid, a buffoon, and only sleeps with whores. (little tangent here, but in the show, we only see him with one confirmed whore--and he undoubtedly wasn't paying for her--and one possible whore in Jaynestown--although she was quite likely simply a mudder, the men were ready to lay their lives down for him, so the women were most likely ready to do lots for him as well ). Mal is celebrated for loving one whore and sleeping with another, but Jayne is villified for it. (sorry about the rant)

I also hate it when negative comments are made by Anonymous posters, particularly when it's clear who the poster is and that they deliberately logged out to make the negative comment.

Pairings: I'll read any (not a real fan of the CSI though). Slash isn't for everyone, but I disagree that there is no basis for it in Firefly (1. they clearly talk about people being 'sly' and 2. I love Simon, but seriously, if Joss made a statement that he was sly, I'd have no problem believing it.) In fanfic, the key is, can the writer convince you.

As for non-canon pairings, I do have a preference for the author to explain the switch in affection. But I also know that it's not ALWAYS necessary to do so. Sometimes the fic begins with the pairing already intact and the fic isn't about explaining how they came to be together (over and over again). I suppose those fics are really meant to be read by/written expressly for fans of that pairing, but I have no problem popping into one and saying: Hey X and Y are together, cool! But I'm weird that way.

So sorry I rambled on so much! I'll probably get flamed for some of what I said, hope not though.

Ultimately, as mal4prez said, I sincerely hope this thread does not deter people from writing or posting fanfic. I know reading it made me wonder if I should be posting my fic here, but I'm stubborn.

-squish

MECHANICGIRLKAYLEE

Sunday, May 28, 2006 4:36 AM

I'm guilty of posting very short chapters. I'm fully capable of writing longer ones, and I quite often do, but I find that the quality of my writing deteriorates quickly if I go on too long. I'm still learning how to write longer stories (fanfic and otherwise) that don't end completely terribly. Even my English teacher says: "You start out...brilliantly. Better than I could write. By the end? Not so brilliant."

Grammar and spelling are my biggest pet peeves about everything, really.
"I go online sometimes. Everybody's spelling is really bad. It's depressing."

~MGK (currently in Buffy withdrawal )

"Abstinence is good. There are already too many hungry children in this world." ~Daisy Lipenowski

POOBLESNUGGETS

Sunday, May 28, 2006 5:37 AM

OOC-ness is my main one. Jayne isn't going to go have a little cry in his bunk over being rejected by a girl. Simon is unlikely to beat Mal in a fight. Certain truths must be acknowledged!

Bad dialogue. But then, nobody can beat Joss when it comes to dialogue, so I'm probably just spoilt.

Angsty poetry quotations at the start of fics that have little to no relevance to the story. Yes, most people have studied english lit, and it's good that these works are being acknowledged by the general public, but really...

SPACEANJL

Sunday, May 28, 2006 8:43 AM

Leiasky,

I write because I damn well want to, (need to) and no snark is going to make me stop. I don't do it for the fuzzy little feedback (though it's useful.) I have one original book on the go, and I have a lot of other names and places to post out there. What I was objecting to, is not the constructive criticism - but the absolute anonymous bashing. If I didn't want any kind of opinion at all, I'd sit on the growing pile of paper and pixels and not put it out there. And I'll quite happily engage in dialogue with anyone who wants to discuss anything. But at the end of the day, I write what I'm going to write, and that is all any of us can do.

SpaceAnJL

"Many suffer from the incurable disease of writing, and it becomes chronic in their sick minds." Juvenal

XEYRA

Sunday, May 28, 2006 2:40 PM

A word to everyone. The goal of this thread was not to discourage anyone from writing but to learn about personal tastes when it comes to fanfiction in this 'Verse we all love. That said, here's the gist of it all:

WE CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE.

I wish we could, but since people are inherently all different (and how dull would it be if we were just carbon copies of each other?), their tastes differ as well as their interpretations of things, places, and characters.

All in all, when you look at the world of fanfiction and fandom, you'll ALWAYS find someone who will like your story (unless you really are a bad, bad writer, but I digress).

For every Jaylee lover there is someone who doesn't care for the pairing, and though those may not read your story, other people who share your passion for the pairing will definitely read your story.

You may write something based on the Firefly 'Verse, but not featuring any of our beloved characters. Some people might shy away from it because it's all about Original Characters and they are weary of those, but others will read it because they don't mind stories like that and would like to take a look at your own original creations.

Some people may not like short chapters, but for every one of those, there will be someone out there who will read drabbles with the same enjoyment as a full novel-length chapter in a story.

The fact is, in any fandom, there are tastes for practically anything, be it a shipping or a genre (fluff, horror, drama, adventure, hurt/comfort), and there will be readers for everything. There will also be those who will try to help you with constructive criticism if they find something in your story that they want to comment about, and there will be those that just like to troll.

The only thing people seem to agree with refers to grammar and sentence structuring, but that is easily solved by going through your story before posting it (I know all about the excitement of posting a story, but taking a few moments to make sure you're not writing Anara instead of Inara would save your readers some pain), or getting help from a beta reader (there is a thread going on this board where people can volunteer as beta readers and writers can search for them).

So, all in all, don't feel afraid to post your story. You don't have to read every single thing on this thread and think that a person's personal pet-peeve is significative in the grand scheme of fanfic writing ("darn it, x-overs seem to be a big no-no, so I won't post my Highlander/Firefly story because I'll certainly won't find readers"). That is why I asked for personal pet-peeves, not the kind of things that shouldn't exist in fanfiction at all.

Some people happen to think Jayne/River is great while others don't like that pairing, so if you write a Jayne/River story, you'll know you'll have someone who will read it and like it, whereas others will continue to believe River and Jayne would never get together (an opinion shared by myself, but I am open-minded enough to have given some of these stories a chance... just haven't found any that could make sense of that pairing).

So, yes, I'll shut up now. Just wanted to leave this message because I originated this thread but it wasn't with the intention of discouraging anyone from posting their stories or even with the intention of having everyone try to avoid every single pet-peeve described herein, because then you wouldn't have much of an opening to just let your imagination soar.

Just go with your heart, I say. And a good spell-checker wouldn't hurt either.

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

PHOENIXROSE

Sunday, May 28, 2006 4:11 PM

I have a list going in the Blue Sun Room forum of stories that have convinced me of pairings I totally couldn't see before (i.e. River/Jayne, which I've only really found one of, but that's still one that addressed my issues with the pairing) The thread is called "Convince me" and there are some great suggestions up, along with some of my personal favorites. There probably aren't many who are out to be converted or convinced of a particualr pairing, but I don't think there's any reason not to give it a shot. I'm still not a Jaylee or Rayne fanatic, but it certainly doesn't twist in my brain as much anymore. If an author really knows the characters and realizes the issues and writes it well, there's no reason it shouldn't work. So, as stated, do not be discouraged; we live in a universe of infinite possibilities.

**********************************

MAL4PREZ

Sunday, May 28, 2006 5:04 PM

I'm developing a bigger pet peeve, and that's for folks who consider it a personal insult that a fictional character is hooking up with some other fictional character!!

Come on, we're all a big happy lovey family. And part of the point of fanfic is that things that would never happen on the show can! Mal can seduce the preacher. River can try out for the inner-Alliance cheer squad. Zoe can take up needlepoint. Whatever! It's NOT REAL!!!

intolerance = Alliance. Which side are you on?

I want everyone who's upset to go smell some flowers and grill something tasty.

XXXOOO
m4p

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

XEYRA

Sunday, May 28, 2006 5:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I'm developing a bigger pet peeve, and that's for folks who consider it a personal insult that a fictional character is hooking up with some other fictional character!!

Come on, we're all a big happy lovey family. And part of the point of fanfic is that things that would never happen on the show can! Mal can seduce the preacher. River can try out for the inner-Alliance cheer squad. Zoe can take up needlepoint. Whatever! It's NOT REAL!!!

Well, erm, can I believe that you'd give a Malver a chance then, based on this opinion? 'Cause you did say that pairing shouldn't ever exist, in a previous post. *sheepish grin*

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

COSMICFUGITIVE

Sunday, May 28, 2006 6:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I'm developing a bigger pet peeve, and that's for folks who consider it a personal insult that a fictional character is hooking up with some other fictional character!!

Come on, we're all a big happy lovey family. And part of the point of fanfic is that things that would never happen on the show can! Mal can seduce the preacher. River can try out for the inner-Alliance cheer squad. Zoe can take up needlepoint. Whatever! It's NOT REAL!!!

I'm with Mal4Prez on this one.

Although, I also agree with those who don't like spelling or grammar mistakes. That's as far as I go though..

The length isn't too much of an issue in my mind, as long it's entertaining and well written. How many people can read a 20+ page chapter if they are working in the office? 0.o

The most important factor is that fan fiction is supposed to be FUN. It's the reason why most authors write, and why people read it. It's pure escapism. When a percentage of readers dislike certain pairings or crossovers, it becomes a little anal. Just a little though.

It stifles the creative process and imagination. Variety is important, or there would just be people complaining about the lack of it.

On the flip side, everyone is entitled to their own personal taste.

But it's kind of limiting. I feel more enriched when I start reading genres or pairings that I wouldn't normally touch.

I take my hat off to those who choose to be more adventurous in their story telling technique. The results can be extremely rewarding, both as a reader and an author. Does anyone remember the story 'Jayne woke up.. Fairy!'?

http://www.fireflyfans.net/sunroomitem.asp?i=2553

It's wacky fun, and just one example (of many) that works so well.

In any case, I'm glad that there's a lot of different fan fic out there. We should be grateful that the tv studios haven't clamped down it, or we'd be complaining about that too.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[img]

[/img]

ARCADIA

Sunday, May 28, 2006 7:01 PM

Wow, this thread really does make me question some of what I’ve written. Of course, I already do. The things I would change if I could start over, lol. This thread is a lot of fun!

Most, if not all, of these have been covered, but since I want to get them off my chest…

1 - People who post five chapters in one day (or five pictures, or five vignettes). It is hard for readers (especially new readers) to find a fic if your five-hundred works are always pushing things off the main page. Would it be so hard to only post two?

2 - Fics that are all mashed into one paragraph. Fics that are all dialogue (unless they are in a teleplay format, but even then, some stage direction helps). I can forgive hear/here mistakes and wrong words here and there if the fic has generally correct spelling, and has these nifty things called paragraphs.

3 - I can’t see River with anyone on the crew, especially Jayne.

4 - River Characterization. She can’t be too lucid. She also shouldn’t be a plot device. How much, “X gets with Y because River used her super psychic abilities to read their mind and force them to confront their feelings” is out there? Enough, I think. Please, think of a new role for River.

5 - When characters are entirely forgotten. It is okay if Book does not appear in a one-shot Kaylee/Simone hook-up fic. It is not okay is he doesn’t appear in a pre-Serenity “lost episode”-like fic. He would be in the episode, and have a significant role. Inara would, too.

6 - Kaylee’s in danger!-fics. Despite the fact that she is the sunniest character, some people imagine some really dark things happening to this girl. Some times (usually when it is not part of a S/K or J/K romance fic) these stories work. Most of the time, I’m just like, “okay, Kaylee might die. That’s nice. Oh, yes, it would be hard for Simon to cure Kaylee since he loves her. Umm...hmm…”

7 - Short chapters. Really, unless the chapter is 1,000 words long (but preferably more) then why are you wasting BlueSunRoom space with your chapter? edit: reading this thread, someone pointed out that shorter chapters are better to read in offices, and they have a good point, but I still prefer long ones. :-)

8 – Inara. She is my favorite, so I get very critical of how she is portrayed. It hate it every time Inara is convinced to profess her love for Mal because Kaylee calls her a hypocrite while whining about her situation with Simon. I hate it when she is portrayed as weak, or completely useless in tough situations. Yes, she would be afraid if she were suddenly forced to be in a fight, but I don’t think she’d be paralyzed, thanks. When she is too open with her emotions. A LOT would need to happen before Inara cried in front of anyone, even Mal. When she realizes that she really is living a lie, and Mal was right to call her a whore all along… no, she’s not living a lie. She’s not perfectly well adjusted (what fun would that be?), but that doesn’t mean she living a lie, or not her job is 100% degrading, etc.

I also don’t care for non-cannon pairings, though there certainly isn’t anything wrong with them. One of the reasons fanfic exists, after all, is to give ourselves a glimpse of what we would like to happen, but would never happen. (So, go write your Rayne fics… just don’t look for my review, lol…)

I don’t mind OCs, if they are well done. You walk a very fine line when you create an original character, but just because you can fail doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try. Stories are about people, and I say the more, the merrier.

Well, that said, it is fan fiction! Anything can happen. This is all in the spirit of good fun!

Peace.

Katie
a.k.a. Arcadia at fff.net
a.k.a. Greyfable at stillflying.net

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Objects in Space"

River: It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think...
http://www.stillflying.net/ <-- Check it out!

AGENTROUKA

Sunday, May 28, 2006 7:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Arcadia:

8 – Inara. She is my favorite, so I get very critical of how she is portrayed. It hate it every time Inara is convinced to profess her love for Mal because Kaylee calls her a hypocrite while whining about her situation with Simon. I hate it when she is portrayed as weak, or completely useless in tough situations. Yes, she would be afraid if she were suddenly forced to be in a fight, but I don’t think she’d be paralyzed, thanks. When she is too open with her emotions. A LOT would need to happen before Inara cried in front of anyone, even Mal. When she realizes that she really is living a lie, and Mal was right to call her a whore all along… no, she’s not living a lie. She’s not perfectly well adjusted (what fun would that be?), but that doesn’t mean she living a lie, or not her job is 100% degrading, etc.

AMEN!

Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen!

So many people make her this spineless, mindless carricature of a woman and I don't understand why.

A woman who leaves Serenity because she doesn't want to be tied to people... she wouldn't be the one to demand marriage or cringe at having a child out of wedlock, she wouldn't base all her decisions on Mal's opinion and she wouldn't suddenly change her mind because a crewmember calls her selfish for leaving. A character so independent would have some understanding of the value of making her own choices, with her best interest in mind.

Also: she is witty. People love to forget her dry wit. *sigh*

TAYEATRA

Sunday, May 28, 2006 7:49 PM

Umm... wow!

This thread bacame a bit of a monster since I was last here.

The only really new issue raised has been about anonymous nasty commenting. I don't mind bad reviews, I've had a few myself elsewhere, and it's not a great for your ego but eventually you just get over yourself and try to see there point of view. However, this is very different to the people that deliberately log off to leave nasty (non-constructive) reviews.

If I don't like a fic I don't comment, if I have a suggestion or see a plot hole I'll leave kind and constructive critisism or PM the person. Anonmymous sniping helps no-one.

With regards to the wierd and wonderful pairings... knock yourselves out guys. Have fun with it. It's fan-fiction, you're fans and you're writing the fiction of your choice! If I don't like it I won't read it but I won't discourage you from writing it!

*****
Taya
*****
I'm going to S3!!!
(*Insert hysterical celebration dance here*)

EMMARIGBY

Sunday, May 28, 2006 10:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tayeatra:
Umm... wow!

This thread bacame a bit of a monster since I was last here.

The only really new issue raised has been about anonymous nasty commenting. I don't mind bad reviews, I've had a few myself elsewhere, and it's not a great for your ego but eventually you just get over yourself and try to see there point of view. However, this is very different to the people that deliberately log off to leave nasty (non-constructive) reviews.

If I don't like a fic I don't comment, if I have a suggestion or see a plot hole I'll leave kind and constructive critisism or PM the person. Anonmymous sniping helps no-one.

With regards to the wierd and wonderful pairings... knock yourselves out guys. Have fun with it. It's fan-fiction, you're fans and you're writing the fiction of your choice! If I don't like it I won't read it but I won't discourage you from writing it!

*****
Taya
*****
I'm going to S3!!!
(*Insert hysterical celebration dance here*)

I have to say that I was very nervous posting my first ever (for public consumption) fanfic on this site, 'specially as it was (horror, of horrors) one of those contraversial xovers and they tend to produce either love em or hate em responses. Still, I've been really reassured by the response I've had. Everyone's been kind and encouraging and made me feel right at home.

I love the open-minded attitude that I've seen expressed on this thread, where people have been unconvinced by a plot/ style/ pairing in a story but have been willing to give it a try and see if they can be convinced. I try to encourage this approach in the much maligned sphere of xover stories. I have a couple of friends who, when I confessed this particular prediliction, declared me unclean and unfit to be set loose in polite society. I have since sat on one of them and forced them to read my story and, although there was the occasional wince (this could have been from my great weight!), I actually caught him grinning a few times!
In fact, someone once reviewed to say that I had converted them from a xover hater to a true believer! Greater praise hath no woman!

Basically, I'm asking all those people who have expressed aversions to particular types of stories to occasionally try one anyway. If it sets you teeth on edge within the first page then you don't have to go on, but it's worth challenging your preconceptions every now and then. Sometimes you find a moment of laughter or something truely touching that otherwise you would have missed out on.

SQUISH

Sunday, May 28, 2006 10:42 PM

Oh mal4prez, you made me giggle with: "Mal can seduce the preacher. River can try out for the inner-Alliance cheer squad. Zoe can take up needlepoint." I love it! And after the day I've just had, I needed that (just smashed my brand new car into a poor little deer). Thanks for the laugh.

And yes, we need to be more tolerant, freedom is the most important part of being a Browncoat (at least I think it is).

CABRIDGES

Monday, May 29, 2006 1:09 PM

Any pairing is fair game. Any pairing. But you have to earn it, and not many writers take the time.

In the second season of Buffy, a Spike/Buffy romance would have been laughable and completely out of character for both of them. By the time it happened it was almost inevitable, but it took 5 years and a lot of character development to get there. Joss' people change and take weird directions but it always makes sense, looking back (well, except maybe for Angel/Cordelia, but hey).

Bad grammar and spelling are distracting, but a good enough story can make me read it anyway (here I'm thinking Harriet Vane, who could have used a spell-checker more often but wrote one of the best Rivers I've ever read). But characterization and dialogue tells me whether I should keep reading or not.

Especially River. As has been said above, she's probably the one that's the toughest to get. Either she's too incoherent, or too coherent, or too ninja-y, or too damn powerful, or just tossed in as someone to say something eerily appropriate to get the plot moving again. River is getting a lot more input than the average person and has problems intepreting it, so she tends to find metaphors that explain what she's seeing and then she comments on the metaphor to the confusion of the crew. Her lucidity changes, but it rarely changes to the convenience of the story. Usually, quite the opposite. Write a good River and I'll cut you a lot of slack.

And thanks for the "Nathan on the Serenity" shoutout above!

_________________
Big Red Button - Buttons, bumper stickers, and more, for the discerning browncoat
http://www.cafepress.com/bigredbutton

SerenityStuff.com - if it's made for a browncoat, I want to know about it!
http://www.serenitystuff.com

LEIASKY

Monday, May 29, 2006 3:43 PM

The below had to be re-posted. Because its SO very true.

Quote:
Originally posted by CABridges:
Any pairing is fair game. Any pairing. But you have to earn it, and not many writers take the time.

In the second season of Buffy, a Spike/Buffy romance would have been laughable and completely out of character for both of them. By the time it happened it was almost inevitable, but it took 5 years and a lot of character development to get there. Joss' people change and take weird directions but it always makes sense, looking back (well, except maybe for Angel/Cordelia, but hey).

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

EDISON

Monday, May 29, 2006 5:26 PM

Can anyone point me to a "My Favorite Firefly fanfics" thread with recommendations? I have not tried much because there is so much of it. Even prowling for high-rated stories with more than a few raters seems like a lot of clicking. Anybody got favorite stories or favorite authors to recommend to give me some good places to start?

Edison

EMMARIGBY

Monday, May 29, 2006 5:52 PM

I have a question for you guys. How do you feel about the translations of the Chinese texts? I've had someone comment that it's distracting having to scroll down to the bottom to see what a Chinese exclamation means, which I can understand. On the other hand, having a translation in brackets in the middle of a conversation seems to me to break up the flow of a story. Is there an answer?

I know that normally this would be a very small stylistic point but in Firefly it becomes more of a major issue!

LAUGHINGMUSE

Monday, May 29, 2006 6:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EmmaRigby:
I have a question for you guys. How do you feel about the translations of the Chinese texts? I've had someone comment that it's distracting having to scroll down to the bottom to see what a Chinese exclamation means, which I can understand. On the other hand, having a translation in brackets in the middle of a conversation seems to me to break up the flow of a story. Is there an answer?

I know that normally this would be a very small stylistic point but in Firefly it becomes more of a major issue!

I don't know that there's a good compromise for that. Putting the translations at the top still means that people have to scroll.

There's the HTML abbr tag, which would let people see the translation by rolling their mouse over the word or phrase in question; but 1) not all authors will know how to use that; and 2) I don't know if people can use HTML formatting when submitting Blue Sun items.

---------------------------------
Mankind makes tools; we use them to augment our hands, arms and legs.
The computer augments the brain and this makes it very unpopular with totalitarians. - Charles J.C. Lyall

HAWKMOTH

Monday, May 29, 2006 6:18 PM

For Edison:

The closest thing to a "Favorite Fanfic" thread might be this one:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=12&t=19673

It contains recommendations for what a new reader might like to start with.

Hope it helps!

SPACEANJL

Monday, May 29, 2006 6:18 PM

I've been posting my fics sans translation or explanation. (And I made up some of the swearing, too.) I figure, I'm using common phrases from the show (mostly), and/or you get the sense from the context. Doesn't spoil it for me to read without translation, unless it's whole sentences that aren't obviously expletives or endearments. Plus, I think research is part of the fun. I mean, I needed an arsonist bad guy and two expendable henchmen, so I named them Dangerous Smoke, and two variations on 'red shirt', which I got from an online dictionary.

SpaceAnJL

XEYRA

Monday, May 29, 2006 6:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Edison:
Can anyone point me to a "My Favorite Firefly fanfics" thread with recommendations? I have not tried much because there is so much of it. Even prowling for high-rated stories with more than a few raters seems like a lot of clicking. Anybody got favorite stories or favorite authors to recommend to give me some good places to start?

There are a few of those threads around, somewhere in the forum. I can point you to a few recommendation threads/sites I found:

http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=12&t=19673 <-- A good thread with a great deal of recommendations, most of which are definitely the cream of the crop and you should check them out. (Edit: This is the same thread HAWKMOTH recommended above).

http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=12&t=20708 <-- The Convince Me thread has some recommendations from authors for specific pairings, mostly non-canon, hence the reason of the title: trying to find convincing stories featuring pairings you wouldn't otherwise see working.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzenvl6n/bsastrawberries/id20.html <-- This is the 2005 Blue Sun Awards for fanfiction in the Firefly verse, so you'll have both winners from previous awards and many recent nominations to sort through in there.

These are just the most recent I've stumbled upon... there are others but searching through the archives can be tiring. The Blue Sun Board should have more threads dedicated to recommendations, I think. Hope it helped you. Just don't think you're going to be able to get off the computer anytime soon. Some of these fanfictions are really addictive.

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

PONYXPRESSINC

Monday, May 29, 2006 7:10 PM

Hi all,

Publishing my first fic was terrifying and exciting beyond belief. It was the first bit of fiction that I had written that was read by anyone other than me.

So... I have respect for anyone who has the nerve to do it more than once, whatever pairing, plot or situation. Spelling and grammar rarely bother me because I can't do either. This is why I now have a great beta reader and I cannot recommend it enough.

Firefly tends to be a love affair, not just a one night stand so I guess I'm not the only one who writes because there just wasn't enough of it.

So I don't have peeves, but I do have things that generally don't float my boat:

Zoë and Jayne pairing,
Mal and River ditto,
Very anatomical sex.

I accept they probably provide all sorts of buoyancy for others.

Anyhow I want everyone to keep writing lots, gives me my escapist fix every day.

Regards

Pony

MAL4PREZ

Monday, May 29, 2006 7:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Xeyra:
Well, erm, can I believe that you'd give a Malver a chance then, based on this opinion? 'Cause you did say that pairing shouldn't ever exist, in a previous post. *sheepish grin*

You're totally right!! "Shouldn't exist" was the wrong way to say it, oops!

But - I must explain in more detail - I'm with other folks in this thread that say any pairing can happen, if care is taken getting the characters from where they were on the series to this new partnering. Even Malver could happen, but if I open a story that has River just creeping into Mal's bunk and ripping his clothes off, I hit the back button. That seems unlikely to me. Mal views River as a daughter, and, down-deep, he's a very moral man, no way he'd just do her. And River is inexperienced - I'd even call her innocent as regards sex and stuff. Not a seductress.

Sure, if captain-daddy/crazy-girl is your taste, write it! Nothing wrong with erotica. But this coupling weirds me out, and I can't read it.

I guess it seems lazy to me, having two non-canon characters fall into bed without any explanation of the attraction. I'm not going to enjoy their relationship, even if the sex is wicked hot, if I don't believe it's the characters I love from the series. It can be the characters a year down the road when they're very changed, but help me understand the changes, all right?

Like CAbridges said above, you have to earn the pairing!

BUT... no matter what I think of a story's premise, I certainly don't leave a comment calling the writer sick, or send them hate mail, which I guess actually happens. Hate mail? Over a fanfic? I just don't get it! This is the real source of my rant. Hate mail to fellow browncoats? Come on!

Anyway, if someone will point me to a Mal/River fic that is actually believable, that takes care developing their relationship past the father/daughter thing before they hook up, I'll try it gladly! I've just never encountered one.

Gotta admit, I once thought Mal/Jayne was beyond belief, but I've actually found two that work. Who'd a thought?

squish: thanks for sharing the laugh! I've been picturing Zoe doing needlepoint ever since I wrote that, and it cracks me up!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

XEYRA

Monday, May 29, 2006 7:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:
Originally posted by Xeyra:
Well, erm, can I believe that you'd give a Malver a chance then, based on this opinion? 'Cause you did say that pairing shouldn't ever exist, in a previous post. *sheepish grin*

You're totally right!! "Shouldn't exist" was the wrong way to say it, oops!

But - I must explain in more detail - I'm with other folks in this thread that say any pairing can happen, if care is taken getting the characters from where they were on the series to this new partnering. Even Malver could happen, but if I open a story that has River just creeping into Mal's bunk and ripping his clothes off, I hit the back button. That seems unlikely to me. Mal views River as a daughter, and, down-deep, he's a very moral man, no way he'd just do her. And River is inexperienced - I'd even call her innocent as regards sex and stuff. Not a seductress.

Exactly! I am a very big fan of Mal and River so them just jumping each other is just wrong to me. The same applies to River jumping anyone, actually, including Jayne. But I have read some good stories that are believable and make some kind of sense. Doesn't mean I believe River is the only girl for Mal (some people actually say they'll stop reading something if they feature a pairing they're not fond of and that is something I think is just silly). In fact, I'm a very big fan of Inara, and am more the kind of person who prefers a story where River isn't out getting sexed by the captain, the mercenary or her brother... But that's just me. LOL.

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Anyway, if someone will point me to a Mal/River fic that is actually believable, that takes care developing their relationship past the father/daughter thing before they hook up, I'll try it gladly! I've just never encountered one.

Hmmm... I am never sure with recommendations when it comes to particular pairings. People's tastes are different and what works for one doesn't much work for others, but, well, let me try giving you these:

http://hereswith.livejournal.com/24721.html#cutid1 <-- A series of small ficlets that are actually, at the moment, still pre River/Mal. The author is really good and her words just flow. I really like reading them. The link leads to a list of these ficlets, to be read in order, but I think she has written at least one or two more that aren't in that list yet, so just poke around her LJ if you liked the previous ones.

You Can't Go Home Again ( http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2794145/1) and its sequel, Tears of the Fallen ( http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2847109/1/) were great reads for me, the first story developing the relationship between Mal and River in a platonic way before leading to romance in the sequel. This story may work for those who don't want to read sappy romance novels, because these stories have a plot and adventure, the romance being just a small part of it, not the whole of the story itself. One of the first Mal/River stories I read, and one that was, in my opinion, very convincingly done, though the author has a tendency to overdo a bit River's "kick-ass" aspects at times (then again, she did defeat a buckload of Reavers by her lonesome in the movie...), but it is still a favourite.

But, as I said, it's my opinion. People have waxed poetic to me about certain stories that use pairings I am not so fond of and they still didn't do much for me.

Hey, Mal4prez, what Mal/Jayne stories are you talking about? Me very curious.

Anyways, shutting up now. LOL.

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

RMMC

Tuesday, May 30, 2006 2:25 AM

Wow...this is still a big monster.

Just a few things to add.

Critiquing etiquette.

(1)If you're going to comment on someone's fic, sign in or at least give your name at the end of your review.

(2)If you have a criticism, word it politely.

(3)For every criticism, you should also point out something that was well done.

(4)If you think its something you could do better, and say so, then put your money where your mouth is and do so. Then be prepared to take comments for and against in kind.

Continuing with other issues, I'm not a fan of certain pairings, which is fine. Others are and that's fine, too, but sorry, Simon/River pairing (incest in general) just squicks me.

That said, I guess I've been out of some of the fic loops. When Malver was first mentioned, I didn't think Mal/River but Mal/Reaver and was really disturbed. Yeah, I'm stupid that way, sometimes. (Bad brain! No cookie!)

*******
RMMC

KANEMAN

Tuesday, May 30, 2006 2:47 AM

Easy...Characters being out of character.

NOSADSEVEN

Tuesday, May 30, 2006 6:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
But - I must explain in more detail - I'm with other folks in this thread that say any pairing can happen, if care is taken getting the characters from where they were on the series to this new partnering. Even Malver could happen, but if I open a story that has River just creeping into Mal's bunk and ripping his clothes off, I hit the back button. That seems unlikely to me. Mal views River as a daughter, and, down-deep, he's a very moral man, no way he'd just do her. And River is inexperienced - I'd even call her innocent as regards sex and stuff. Not a seductress.

See, this is exactly why I like good Mal/River fics. It's all about the journey...it's how they get there that facinates me.

Quote:
Anyway, if someone will point me to a Mal/River fic that is actually believable, that takes care developing their relationship past the father/daughter thing before they hook up, I'll try it gladly! I've just never encountered one.

I haven't read "You Can't Go Home Again" or its sequel yet (though I intend to as soon as I catch up on Easy Tix!), but I can whole-heartedly second Xerya's hereswith recommendation. (BTW, if the fanfiction.net links aren't working for anyone, just manually add the slash at the end.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

PHOENIXROSE

Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:11 AM

My favorite Mal/River fic is IrishCowgirl's "Serenity Now". It got me a little hooked on the pairing. I myself wrote a kinda sorta Mal/River drabble, but it's mostly Mal's stream of conciousness. He's attracted to River, he's still attracted to Inara, and it's kinda... messing with him. People see it different ways, though, which I guess is good.
Can't come up with ay others off the top of my head.

**********************************

XEYRA

Tuesday, May 30, 2006 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RMMC:
Wow...this is still a big monster.
That said, I guess I've been out of some of the fic loops. When Malver was first mentioned, I didn't think Mal/River but Mal/Reaver and was really disturbed. Yeah, I'm stupid that way, sometimes. (Bad brain! No cookie!)

Hey, don't think that. LOL. I don't like the term Malver myself. I just use River/Mal or Mal/River in my head. I don't think there's actually a good name for this pairing. It's certainly not an "official" name (like Jaylee or Rayne), I think, so you're really not out of the loop.

But you've now put a very disturbing image in my head. Mal/Reaver?

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, May 30, 2006 1:16 PM

Thanks for the recs Xeyra and Nosadseven and PhoenixRose! I will read them when I get the chance, and see if I can be comnverted to a Mal/River fan...

I guess the Malver term is a little silly. But there really aren't other options. rivmal? stupid!

Quote:
Originally posted by Xeyra:
Hey, Mal4prez, what Mal/Jayne stories are you talking about? Me very curious.

I got both of these off the 2005 Strawberry Award nominees, btw...

Vandonovan's Took the Sky is sad but kind of sweet. It's a longish series, starts at http://vandonovan.livejournal.com/607341.html

The second one I must strongly caution about - it's very dark, it's very disturbing, and it depressed the hell out of me after I read it. Because it's the worst version of both characters and it's heartbreaking, but frighteningly believeable (to me anyway). I wish the writer would continue it and make it right! Janissa11's Tussle:
http://janissa11.livejournal.com/141374.html

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

RMMC

Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Xeyra:
Quote:
Originally posted by RMMC:
Wow...this is still a big monster.
That said, I guess I've been out of some of the fic loops. When Malver was first mentioned, I didn't think Mal/River but Mal/Reaver and was really disturbed. Yeah, I'm stupid that way, sometimes. (Bad brain! No cookie!)

Hey, don't think that. LOL. I don't like the term Malver myself. I just use River/Mal or Mal/River in my head. I don't think there's actually a good name for this pairing. It's certainly not an "official" name (like Jaylee or Rayne), I think, so you're really not out of the loop.

Thanks, I've run through several sites (other than FFF.net) to read fic and hadn't seen that derivitative until this thread, at least I didn't think I had. Which then made me wonder if old age had hit and I was the last one to know.

Quote:

But you've now put a very disturbing image in my head. Mal/Reaver?

Sorry. It made my brain recoil so much it almost became a singularity.

It would be a challange, wouldn't it? Not many things have meaningful relationships with their food.

******
RMMC

ANNABELLE43

Saturday, June 10, 2006 6:52 AM

Ok, I don't write fan fic but I read plenty of it so here goes. I don't mind most pairings but the idea that Jayne might reproduce with anyone is disturbing to me... I hate it when somebody starts a story and doesn't finish it, if you have a long story write the entire thing and post it one chapter a day (and I mean CHAPTER not paragraph. Don't get half way through a story and start writing something else; more than likely you wont finish either.

But my main peeve is this.
Simon Tam is not stupid, he is not weak, he would not panic in a dangerous situation. He is a Trauma Surgeon for Gods sake, he would have washed out the second day if he behaved the way he appears in most fan fiction. He walked into an Alliance facility and stold his sister risking both of their lives, I don't think Mal, Jayne, Badger or Zoe on a bad day (ok maybe Zoe) would scare him.

One last thing don't be so hard on the spelling and gramar. Quite a few of the authors here are not native English speakers/writers and English is a tricky language for non natives to learn. I know there is one writer that is a Norwegian school girl. I could not only not write a sentence let alone an entire story in Norwegian I don't think I could identify a single word. Give people a break its supposed to be fun.

SAMEERTIA

Saturday, June 10, 2006 6:45 PM

Amen, Annabelle!!!!!

So many writers have Simon completely out of character that it's painful to watch. Simon doesn't stammer when he talks to Mal, or to Zoe. He looks them in the eye, even when it's something he doesn't want to say or hear.

My other peeve is turning Jayne into some kind of stumbling moron.

Jayne is not a moron. He's not to bright about some things- didn't have much upbringing, and probably not much schooling, either.
But in an emergency- it's Jayne sealing off everything below decks when there's a fire. It's Jayne checking to make sure everyone's strapped in when they crash.

He's not cultured, or dainty, but he's no graceful idiot, either. Watch the way he moves when the storm Niska's complex. That is grace, folks.

SPACEANJL

Monday, June 12, 2006 1:41 PM

Going to slope in with a writer peeve here.

I wish people would take the time to think out a complete arc before they start posting. There are a few lovely ideas out there, but they seem to be bunged out hastily as possible. Take the time to craft something, please.

SameErtia wrote:

My other peeve is turning Jayne into some kind of stumbling moron.

Quite. Grown man in a dangerous line of work. Stupid would get you a bad case of dead.

SpaceAnJL

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG

Monday, June 12, 2006 3:14 PM

People talking or acting out of character. I know it's completely subjective as to what's in character (especially in the longer fics) but some attempt to explain why certain out of character moments happen would be nice.

As for comments, I seem to be the only person alive who actually loves getting negative comments. I get a lot of really nice, positive reviews, so negative ones are always a pleasant surprise and help me improve. Though saying that I'd still prefer a 'that was great but...' to a 'that sucked, and this is why'

-------------------------------------------------

Pimping my fanfic:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/sunroomitem.asp?i=8267

LEIASKY

Monday, June 12, 2006 3:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Annabelle43:
Ok, I don't write fan fic but I read plenty of it so here goes. I don't mind most pairings but the idea that Jayne might reproduce with anyone is disturbing to me... I hate it when somebody starts a story and doesn't finish it, if you have a long story write the entire thing and post it one chapter a day (and I mean CHAPTER not paragraph. Don't get half way through a story and start writing something else; more than likely you wont finish either.

But my main peeve is this.
Simon Tam is not stupid, he is not weak, he would not panic in a dangerous situation. He is a Trauma Surgeon for Gods sake, he would have washed out the second day if he behaved the way he appears in most fan fiction. He walked into an Alliance facility and stold his sister risking both of their lives, I don't think Mal, Jayne, Badger or Zoe on a bad day (ok maybe Zoe) would scare him.

The above definitely needed to be reiterated. I couldn't agree more Annabelle.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

XEYRA

Monday, June 12, 2006 5:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Leiasky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Annabelle43:
Ok, I don't write fan fic but I read plenty of it so here goes. I don't mind most pairings but the idea that Jayne might reproduce with anyone is disturbing to me... I hate it when somebody starts a story and doesn't finish it, if you have a long story write the entire thing and post it one chapter a day (and I mean CHAPTER not paragraph. Don't get half way through a story and start writing something else; more than likely you wont finish either.

But my main peeve is this.
Simon Tam is not stupid, he is not weak, he would not panic in a dangerous situation. He is a Trauma Surgeon for Gods sake, he would have washed out the second day if he behaved the way he appears in most fan fiction. He walked into an Alliance facility and stold his sister risking both of their lives, I don't think Mal, Jayne, Badger or Zoe on a bad day (ok maybe Zoe) would scare him.

The above definitely needed to be reiterated. I couldn't agree more Annabelle.

Hear hear. Simon suffers so much in fanfiction. His characterization is so often over-the-top-prissy or whiney-coward. I've read some REALLY good Simon characterization. And some really bad.

Another problem I've come across (but this more of a personal rant than anything else) doesn't relate so much to the author but the reviewers. Some fans of certains ships involving River tend to bash Simon quite a lot because he gets in the way of his sister's relationship with A or B. I've seen this happen a lot in Jayne/River fics. Not so much here, on FFFnet, but on livejournal the reviewers tend to really bring Simon down because he doesn't want his sister with Jayne.

I love Jayne! Really. I love his character to pieces. But people, try to imagine River was your younger sister or daughter and would you ever act any differently than Simon if she was getting it on with a man old enough to be your father and who, not so long ago, wanted to sell you to the feds? Why does Simon have to be the villain in Rayne fanfics just because he acts like any of us would in his situation?

Sorry for that little rant...

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

CABRIDGES

Monday, June 12, 2006 7:26 PM

If you think about it, Jayne was hired because he wasn't stupid. OK, partly he was hired because it was a way out of a deadly situation that didn't involved inconvenient new holes in mal or Zoe, but Mal's interest was peaked after Jayne mentioned he found them easy enough.

Jayne is simple-minded. Not to say he's dumb, or slow, but he has a very simple world-view of what's important, i.e. Jayne. When things pertain to that world-view he's as fast as anyone and a good deal faster than most. What he doesn't do well is understand other people's points of view and that's where he slows up.

_________________
Big Red Button - Buttons, bumper stickers, and more, for the discerning browncoat
http://www.cafepress.com/bigredbutton

SerenityStuff.com - if it's made for a browncoat, I want to know about it!
http://www.serenitystuff.com

CABRIDGES

Monday, June 12, 2006 7:28 PM

I hate it when somebody starts a story and doesn't finish it...

OK, OK, I'll post another chapter...

_________________
Big Red Button - Buttons, bumper stickers, and more, for the discerning browncoat
http://www.cafepress.com/bigredbutton

SerenityStuff.com - if it's made for a browncoat, I want to know about it!
http://www.serenitystuff.com

XEYRA

Monday, June 12, 2006 7:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CABridges:
I hate it when somebody starts a story and doesn't finish it...

OK, OK, I'll post another chapter...

Your legion of fans (okay, me) await it eagerly. :)

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

MISSKITTEN

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 5:01 PM

Quote:
Annabelle43 wrote:

One last thing don't be so hard on the spelling and gramar. Quite a few of the authors here are not native English speakers/writers and English is a tricky language for non natives to learn. I know there is one writer that is a Norwegian school girl. I could not only not write a sentence let alone an entire story in Norwegian I don't think I could identify a single word. Give people a break its supposed to be fun.

lol, you wouldn't happen to be talking about me would you? (though I think of myself more as a college student than a school girl... lol)

Okay, so I've read people's pet peeves and here are mine:

Jayne/Kaylee - No, No, NO! It's NOT believable, never in my life will I want to read it. It's straight out disgusting, even the teasers gives me the creps. Come on people, even Jewel winced at the idea!

Simon/River - Another BIG NO! They're brother and sister and it's called incest, okay?

The grammar comes a second to this. I'm always astounded how I being a foreigner have a lot better grammar than a lot of native english writers. Seriously, were they taught in sloppy-school? At least when I make a grammar mistake it's justified with me not being native english.

Original characters that are clearly Mary Sue's irritates me. If you're making an original character then make it a character that would've been worthy of the show. Give them flaws as well as some hidden quality.

I can't think of what else bugs me... lol...

*~*~*

"Joss, if you kill him now I'll stuff a compression coil up your ass sideways!"
~ Kaylee, "Serenity in 2000 words or less"

Kaylee's the perfect woman!

RIVERISMYGODDESS

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 5:42 PM

I have read the majority of this thread and I thought I would add my own $0.02 to the mix. I am a writer as well as a reader of fanfic.

Grammar/Word Usage: If you can't run your story through a simple spell checker, don't write fanfic. Easy words getting mispelled in ways that boggle the mind make me instantly close a story. Homonyms irritate the hell out of me too, learn which version of there/their/they're to use. Someone who repeats the same word over and again gets on my nerves a bit too, as a thesaurus is just as easy to use as a spell-checker. Reading your story aloud before you post it, make sure it sounds like something you would want to read yourself.

Pairings: I honestly cannot see River paired with anyone. Her character throughout the series and movie doesn't even begin to suggest any sort of non-platonic relationship to me. I also have problems seeing any of the males paired together on the ship, based on their personalities and character traits. Jaylee is slightly believeable only if it is set before the series, before Simon ever came on board the ship. Simon/Kaylee is of course a canon pairing, but reading a series of fics wherein they do nothing but like rabbits in every different room of the ship just doesn't seem likely to me, and if that is all your series revolves around (ie, PwoP), then stop writing now. Though Simon is a stong person, I don't think his timidness and awkwardness would instantly vanish just because of his revelation to Kaylee before the Reaver battle. As for Mal and Inara, I don't see that happening nearly as soon after the BDM as most people make it happen. Finally, I honestly don't think there is enough Zoe/Wash smut out there, which is something I intend to correct, however slightly.

Babies: It is very hard to do children onboard Serenity no matter who the parents are. Most folks want to give these kids voices, which means advancing the timeline much farther than necessary and/or making them completely unbelievable. I also don't think that if Simon and Kaylee were to get it on as much as most people make them, they would want to start having children right away. I haven't really read much of pregnant Zoe but that too is a thin line to walk.

AUs: Not gonna happen. Aliens, time travel, crossovers with other series, weird pairings, none of it works for me. Extrapolating a character's qualities due to advancing the timeline is one thing, but I just don't see them meeting up with, well, anyone.

Readers: This is a bit of a touchy subject with me. I firmly believe, based on the conversation early in Objects in Space, that no one is born as a Reader. The Alliance and the Blue Hands made River into one by the cuts they made into her brain. I have seen no evidence to suggest otherwise, though I would love to hear about it if there is some.

OCs: These are another touchy subject (though I did use one in my shorter series). I have seen a lot of fics wherein people write themselves into the 'verse to be the hero and get down with one or more of the crew. NO! Part of the charm of this wonderful story is that we are not a part of their world and can therefore enjoy it more by being outside observers.

Yes, I tend to whinge on and on, but I am pretty passionate about the subject.

~Jimi
jimi dot spettel at gmail dot com
Self-Proclaimed Grand Vizier of Georgia

- Animation by DesktopHippie

"Marijuana not only should be legal, it should be manditory." - Bill Hicks

BIGWOLF18

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 7:44 PM

theres one thing i hate in fan fics, male slash, its just not happening, exept maybe simon and jayne.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
we are THE FORSAKEN and we aim to burn!

KELAI

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 8:20 PM

Oh, this is going to be long...

People not portraying characters correctly.
I absolultely HATE it when people don't analyze what's coming out of their characters mouth. Or doing something a character would never do/act like, unless it is the rare desperate situation.

Bad Formatting
I don't like it when people put a big story in one paragraph.

Grammar
Okay, I'll admit mine is pretty gorram bad at times, but when I'm writing I'll proofread and rewrite. Sometimes even have a friend proofread.

Names spelled wrong!
Hate it when people spell names wrong --- not really an issue with Firefly Fics, but it is on other show's fics.

Slash
Not gonna happen. Except with Inara and clients. Most agitated I would be with is my friends concept of the Simon-Jayne-Mal love triangle. ick.

Non-realistic/non-canon/impossible hookups
River sort of teases Jayne in Trash with that cute smirk on her face. Does this mean she's romantically interested in him ... no. Kaylee jokes with Jayne but does she like him ... no. And then there's Book/River, which I'm not getting into.

Children/marriages of werid hookups!
River Cobb always gets to me. The daughter of Mal/Inara as well. Simon and Kaylee married? Yes. Zoe and Jayne [post-BDM]? NO.

ALternate Universe.
It upsets me when people write fics like, 'Okay, in this fic Simon and RIver arn't siblings and he and Jayne are fighting over her!

CSI
Crazy Space Incest.

River having romantic interest, sex, etc.
River loves her brother. Causes he's her brother. She likes Kaylee. She's a friend. Mal teaches her lessons about ... love! But I hate it when people throw RIver in the sack with Kaylee, Simon [CSI], Mal, or worse of all - JAYNE!

RIver is the only character that has no romantic interest. ALL characters of ALL shows have some kind of romantic interest/involvement.

See, Mal has Inara, [and certain one-nighters] Simon has Kaylee, Zoe has Wash, and Jayne has Vera [and whores], and Book has ... God!

okay, I'm done.

---

TERRI

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 8:48 PM

Okay, I totally agree with everything in the above post. I'm the kind of fangirl that doesn't take well to fanfic. It tends to muck up my insides just a bit too much. If Joss didn't write it, I usually don't want anything to do with it. Not that people aren't creative, and good writers, but fanfics just bring to mind a deep, dark place I don't want anything to do with. As far as slash goes; well, I had a bad experience with a Mulder/Skinner and I'm scarred for life. So as far as Rayne goes, and Miver, and whatever else someone could come up with, I'm just not feeling it. It all bothers me on one level or another. Just some worse than others. Oh and thanks for putting Tamcest in my head. I'm going to have nightmares about that.

HUMBUG

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RMMC:

Critiquing etiquette.

(1)If you're going to comment on someone's fic, sign in or at least give your name at the end of your review.

(2)If you have a criticism, word it politely.

(3)For every criticism, you should also point out something that was well done.

(4)If you think its something you could do better, and say so, then put your money where your mouth is and do so. Then be prepared to take comments for and against in kind.

RMMC

Right on! I HATE criticisms of fanfic because you don't like the pairing. No one is forcing you to read a fanfic. Read the summary and stay clear of any pairing or type (ie slash) you don't like. Also, if you don't like a writers style, but others do, don't flame them or write harsh criticism. Show your dislike by not reading it. If no onereads your fic, you may not continue posting.

I may seem thin-skinned, but i don't like hyper-critical comments. If you really don't like it, say so briefly and please don't make it personal.

I really think some comments are so nasty that they should never be psoted. So go easy.

Okay - flame me. I dare you...

Humbug

"You know what the first rule of flying is?... Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home." Mal, BDM

RMMC

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 11:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Humbug:

Right on! I HATE criticisms of fanfic because you don't like the pairing. No one is forcing you to read a fanfic. Read the summary and stay clear of any pairing or type (ie slash) you don't like. Also, if you don't like a writers style, but others do, don't flame them or write harsh criticism. Show your dislike by not reading it. If no onereads your fic, you may not continue posting.

I may seem thin-skinned, but i don't like hyper-critical comments. If you really don't like it, say so briefly and please don't make it personal.

I really think some comments are so nasty that they should never be psoted. So go easy.

Okay - flame me. I dare you...

No flames, I promise.

I'm fairly thin-skinned myself.

Looking at that (wow! May!) I should have made a number 5:

(5) Critiquing should never be on a personal level. Anything you wish to point out as a possible/probable issue should be objective issues such as, but not limited to:
a.) Grammar mistakes
b.) Editing errors (I've seen unintentional oopsies of folks forgetting to remove remarks from their betas)
c.) Spelling mistakes
d.) Incorrect word choices (I'm not talking about homonyms, but someone using a word that doesn't mean what they thought it did)
e.) If something sounds 'off' such as dialogue.

In all cases, if you're going to take the time to point out anything you feel isn't right please follow three rules:
a) Be kind Word it politely. Anything less makes you look like the back end of a beast of burden.

b) Show what would be correct in its place.
c.) Explain your reasoning, if possible.

You should never critique for personal biases, such as not liking slash, character death, religous viewpoints, etc. Those have no business in a critique. The purpose of critiquing is to help the authors better themselves at their craft, not to have stories tailor-made for your personal tastes. If you want that, see rule # 4 above.

Hmmm...I thought about eliminating rule #1 since there's no more anonymous reviews allowed, but it's good to keep it in mind when posting on other sites, so I'll let it stand.

Oh. I got a bit wordy again.

Sorry about that, folks.

********
RMMC
"Those grenades?"
"Captain don't want 'em."
"Jayne, we're robbing the place, we're not occupying it."

SABRI3L

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 11:53 PM

In general :

~I don't like crossovers

~I don't like it when fics don't stay in their rating category

~I hate hate hate overly wussy Wash. A sweet, sarcastic Wash is nice, a Wash that acts like overly hormonal emo 14 year old girl...not so much.

~I don't like fics that don't warn me of squicks or slash beforehand.

Knitter of Cunning Jayne Hats

RIVERISMYGODDESS

Thursday, September 28, 2006 10:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RMMC:
No flames, I promise. I'm fairly thin-skinned myself.

Looking at that (wow! May!) I should have made a number 5:

(5) Critiquing should never be on a personal level. Anything you wish to point out as a possible/probable issue should be objective issues such as, but not limited to:
a.) Grammar mistakes
b.) Editing errors (I've seen unintentional oopsies of folks forgetting to remove remarks from their betas)
c.) Spelling mistakes
d.) Incorrect word choices (I'm not talking about homonyms, but someone using a word that doesn't mean what they thought it did)
e.) If something sounds 'off' such as dialogue.

On this note, when I see spelling, editing, grammatical, etc errors, I usually send the person a PM instead of leaving it as feedback. I prefer to talk about just the story when I feedback, and the little technical things that can be edited out don't matter as much (unless there are a whole lot of them).

One time, however, before I implemented this policy, I had a writer bitch me out because I left feedback about leaving a comment about a typo in their feedback, because it couldn't be erased once they fixed the error. Yeesh, people can be so techy .

~Jimi
jimi dot spettel at gmail dot com
Self-Proclaimed Grand Vizier of Georgia

- Animation by DesktopHippie

"Marijuana not only should be legal, it should be manditory." - Bill Hicks

XEYRA

Thursday, September 28, 2006 12:36 PM

Oh, someone brought this thread back to life. Thank you! :)

I have a new pet-peeve, which I've come across recently and is really annoying to me: River refering to Mal as 'Captain Daddy'.

I know this seems to be a fandom term that stemmed from the episode Safe, as some people believe she is referring to Mal when she says 'daddy will come', but does she have to call Mal 'captain daddy' to his face in fanfic when she never does use that term at all in the series/movie/comic book? Not that I remember, at least.

Moreover, Mal doesn't even blink when she says that. No one does. Seems to be as ingrained a thing as River always referring to herself in third person or as 'the girl'...

If someone points me to a single instance in the official 'verse where she calls Mal 'Captain Daddy' (might have missed something, one never knows), I'll stop being annoyed and accept it. Otherwise, I just don't understand it. Why does she have to refer to him like that? Only as a joke, please, if at all.

Sorry, I'm somewhat vocal with my pet-peeves. Not my intention to insult anyone.

"People tell you things all the time, without talking. The way they move, the way they aren't talking." - River Tam

DRAGONESS

Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:00 PM

Wow, I'm glad to see I'm not alone in the 'verse.

Many of the peeves already listed above I agree with. The biggest ones:

Grammar out of control. (I can deal with an occasional misspelling, but how hard is it to read back over what you just wrote?)
Everybody paired off like Noah's Ark.
Non-cannon actions or relationships - especially slash relationships between characters who were clearly hetero in the show.
Mary Sues.

I don't mind OCs IF they don't overshadow the original characters.

Babies? If the story makes a point of dealing with all the complications a child would bring, I can handle ONE. More than that is just not plausible. (Unless they're twins - ooh, THAT would be an awful mess on board, wouldn't it?)

Dragoness

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Xeyra:
I have a new pet-peeve, which I've come across recently and is really annoying to me: River refering to Mal as 'Captain Daddy'.

I know I've already voiced my opinion on this (more than once) and I'm going to being annoying soon (already?) but I have another angle to take...

Imagine the end of OiS, River drifting down to be caught by Mal on the outside of Serenity, and then saying:

"Permission to come aboard, Captain Daddy?"

If anyone can actually picture that without shudders of wrongness, well... I'm out of arguments.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

TOBEDOG

Thursday, September 28, 2006 8:40 PM

Being Late. I just can't stand setting something up for a certain time, people commiting to that timeframe and still being late. It seriously eats at me.

"Six men came to kill me one time. The best of 'em carried this. It's a Killhan full-bore autolock, customized trigger, double cartridge, thorough-gage. This is my very favorite gun."

COZEN

Thursday, September 28, 2006 9:02 PM

My pet peeve? Glad you asked!

My pet peeve about Firefly fan fiction is that it is all being written to fill a void left by a television series that has been killed in its infancy, rather than complementing an ongoing, vibrant television show that is still being written by Joss Whedon and others of Whedon's choice.

Yeah, I know, this adds nothing to the discussion, but it is my peeve.

MACQYVER

Wednesday, June 13, 2007 9:53 PM

Quote:
And if you are going to insist on Zoe having a baby, then for the love of Joss don't give it frickin' blue eyes. Brown is dominant and hers are very very brown. Lighter skin, lighter hair, bit more believable. Maybe even hazel eyes. Not blue, though, that just bugs me.

I know I should probably just leave this alone, and more than half the people reading this will probably not care, but I just started the genetics unit in my bioligy class, and if I let this go it will bug me all day.

Yes, brown is the dominant traight, but that doesn't mean that Wash's kid would have brown eyes. If Zoe's genes were heterozygous( had the dominant and recessive trait for eye color. also a great word to know if your playing scrable), which is very possible, and Wash has to have homozygous resesive (only the recessive genes for eye color, another good scrable word). Since the characteristics are inherited independently, with no regard for dominance, there is actualy a 1/4 chance that Wash and Zoe's child would have blue eyes.

Sorry, but I just had to correct that. (If a didn't, I wouldn't be an anoying highschool student, now would I)

If one must fail, Fail spectacularly
(mabey thats the atitude keeping me from getting a girlfriend?)

TUJIAOZUO

Thursday, June 14, 2007 1:52 AM

Good scientific insight to the eyes. I learned about that a ways back, but I rarely remember it lol.

Pet peeves... I'm probably the wrong person to be in here posting on it since I know my fics fall into a few of these catgories, but I have peeves too.

Simple stuff, can't stand slash, not big on smut (I like it when there's something left for the imagination... IMO it just reads a bit more tasteful, but hey that's me). I won't read slash at all and as for the smut, if it's just a smal portion of the story I'll skip over it. For some strange reason, J/R and M/R tend to be very unsettling, although I will tolerate it sometimes just because I started reading and I will be determined to finish the fic. Mary Sues are probably another really big pet peeve, because I want to read about Joss' characters and not someone elses..

But with that said I have two original characters myself, and on top of it one of them pulled a Mary Sue in my fic Stang and saved the day so I sound like the world's biggest hypocrite right now lol. Still, I like to think that the characters I created have a purpose :)

As for my grammer, I know it's not perfect, and I check and re-check my stories over and over to keep them as correct as possible. However I don't have a beta and I doubt I will for awhile. In the other fandom I write, I used to have a beta and we had been parnters a long time. But a few months back on one of my fics she didn't like the way it was going and abandoned me. Then when I continued on without her into controverisal waters, she flamed my feedback, then hacked into the webmasters account and deleted my entire account. Which wiped out all of my fics, plus my status in the top 5 writers list. So yeah, little wary right now (I put my account back up there but I have yet to actually add to any stories) and that whole 'for the love of god get a beta' really doesn't work for me right now.

I digress, I doubt anyone really wants to hear me yammer

Ash

YINYANG

Thursday, June 14, 2007 4:55 AM

Aside from the general bad grammar, bad characterization, bad plot (poorly thought out or not thought out at all), and space incest, I have just one pet peeve (and it's my biggest one, too):

Mal/Zoe

I think I'd rather take a fanfic riddled with errors (one giant paragraph for the whole story, no notions of spelling and grammar, and downright crude descriptions) that centers around a Book and girls orgy before Mal/Zoe. It is only out of a morbid curiosity that I read one story surrounding this pairing, and I don't think I'll be doing that again. I feel that it is so glaringly obvious that their relationship is platonic; explore the idea all you want, but please try not to take it too seriously. Romance between these two, in my opinion, is antithetical to the very basics of Firefly.

I apologize if that was harsh. However, that is my stance.

"A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

DARKFLY

Thursday, June 14, 2007 1:49 PM

My biggest Pet-Peev is acutally all Fan Fic's which are about the crew of Serenity, though I'm fine if they pop up in the fan fic every now and then but I always feel a tad disappointed at fan fic's with our Big Damn Crew since the quality of the writing will never compare to Tim Minear's or even Joss's since Tim Minear wrote the best episodes in my opinion. Though there are a few entertaining ones about our BDC but not many.

I love fan fics which are about made-up characters, its more interesting then, and you don't have to try to mimic any character's personality, cause its your character

---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/darkfly7
Darkfly's Fan fiction, The Dark Chronicles OUT NOW, Chapters 2-4 have been added

Want pics, vids, ringtones,ect releated to Serenity and Firefly
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=26986

AGENTROUKA

Thursday, June 14, 2007 2:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MacQyver:

Since the characteristics are inherited independently, with no regard for dominance, there is actualy a 1/4 chance that Wash and Zoe's child would have blue eyes.

Sorry, but I just had to correct that. (If a didn't, I wouldn't be an anoying highschool student, now would I)

It's STILL incredibly annoying, though.

Everyone has the babies having blue eyes (beyond the new-born blueness, I mean.) Everyone has the characters imagining their babies with the blue eyes their partner might have.

It's as if brown eyes are stigmatized or some such. It's such a cliche! Be bold, people. The baby will still be special enough with the less rare eye color.

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, June 14, 2007 2:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
It's as if brown eyes are stigmatized or some such. It's such a cliche! Be bold, people. The baby will still be special enough with the less rare eye color.

LOL! It's like a Mary Sue baby! Can't the poor kid have a chance to be well rounded? Comes right out of the womb idealized...

Edit: Must add another peeve: Doesn't it seem like River is calling Simon a *boob* in like every other fic? I like to think the FF writers would have come up with new words for her to use. I wish fic writers would too!

I guess the more general peeve is writers recycling lines from the series over and over again, instead of coming up with new things. Um... new things that aren't "cappy daddy" LOL!

I'm impossible to please. It's true!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

XEYRA

Thursday, June 14, 2007 2:43 PM

Oh, wow, talk about resurrecting threads! :)

I have a couple more pet-peeves worth mentioning while I'm here.

I have a problem with fics that disregard some continuity. Granted, Joss himself did it when he had Simon break River out from the Academy for the movie, which makes for some interesting fan wank theories, but that's different than having, for example, a AU fic before OiS where everyone seems to know River is psychic without giving an alternate explanation on how it was discovered (since, in canon, it's only 'discovered' by Mal in OiS).

Also, why the heck do people insist on having Mal refer to River as Albatross Pre-BDM? People, Albatross was a reference the Operative made that Mal took to. It didn't even exist Pre-BDM. So don't go have Mal call River that in pre-movie stories!

Okay, shutting up now.

"People tell you things all the time, without talking. The way they move, the way they aren't talking." - River Tam

AGENTROUKA

Thursday, June 14, 2007 4:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
LOL! It's like a Mary Sue baby! Can't the poor kid have a chance to be well rounded? Comes right out of the womb idealized...

Indeedy!

Fanfic babies are also often miraculously silent and sleep whenever conversation needs to take place - or when they are crying they aren't, say, actually holding their parents' attention, they just provide dramatic background noise for the parent's stressed pain.

No fanfic parent is ever caught talking about rashes or leaky diapers or the paining combination of breastfeeding and teething. New parents are notoriously awful to be around because they talk about nothing else. I want to see everyone avoiding the parents because of these things!

Another pet peeve: Anything that has River actually enjoying her fighting skills and getting all sensually deceptive Jayne-esque about it all. It may be a powerful image, but it's not really the girl we see in show and movie.

CRUITHNE3753

Thursday, June 14, 2007 5:51 PM

I pretty much avoid fan fiction, and I won't touch "slash fiction" with a bargepole. If I want to read some Firefly fan fiction, it would constitute a good episode story, and be well written.

PENNAUSAMIKE

Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by angieh:
Quote:
Originally posted by Darkfly:
I love fan fics which are about made-up characters,
its more interesting then,
and you don't have to try to mimic any character's personality,
cause its your character

If the characters are from ones own mind then how can you call them fanfiction?
I believe that would simply be called reading a book.
SNIP

It is still fanfiction because it is placed in another person's already created Intellectual Property.
I don't want to see amateur writers trying to re-write characters
who are who they are because of the guiding hand of their original creators.

I personally have lamented many times on boards and in articles I have written, including
http://www.fanfilmfollies.com/featured/firefly-fan-films-on-fan-film-f
ollies
that people are always mimicking the show rather than expanding the 'verse.
There are many other Firefly ‘verse stories to tell.
Story arcs exploring the reach and machinations of Blue Sun,
tales of Companions and politics, cops and robbers,
dissatisfactions within the Alliance;
the Firefly ‘verse is rich with story ideas
beyond a simple “peril-of-the-week-for-the-crew”.
I don't mind a canon character being a peripheral character,
but I prefer the main character and their development/ journey
to be an original creation.

I also have NO interest in "dead Wash" stories.
In my mind, the crew put Wash in River's cryo-box to take him home for burial. Along the way, they are informed by Simon that the same medical tech that produced Tracy's hopped up internal organs ("million credit meat" in Tracy's words) are accessible at Government research facilities. Using a bit of improvisation and Book's ident card, they sneak Wash in place of a politico who bumped a deserving recipient (ala PA's governor Casey who bumped everybody down the list for his transplant). Alliance bashing, witty dialog and some gunplay ensues. The Firefly 'verse returns to normal.
In my mind, Wash lives. I feel so strongly about his place in the Firefly dynamic that if no more Firefly can come after Serenity without dead Wash, I'd rather it end at Serenity and allow me to finish it out in my own mind in a way that makes me happy.

Mike
My Firefly/Serenity Collection:
http://fireflydvd.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3541

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