Slash fics.. Blah..

POSTED BY: thekidflash
UPDATED: Saturday, September 23, 2006 11:20
VIEWED: 16676
PAGE 1 of 1

THEKIDFLASH

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 3:17 PM

Okay, I just might be... dilusional here.. but I don't know if I feel comfortable reading Jayne and Simon having a tumbing session in Jaynes Bunk, or whatever.

.......there's more Firefly slash then I really care to see! I'm really just sayin how I feel about it, but they're all adults and people got imagination, but...

So out of character!!

I'm done..

....

SAMEERTIA

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 3:22 PM

Sorry you don't enjoy them.
I think a well done slash-fic can really explore different sides to a character, and give us new perspectives.

But all slash should be clearly marked as such, so you can easily avoid them if they aren't your bag.

AGENTROUKA

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 3:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:

But all slash should be clearly marked as such, so you can easily avoid them if they aren't your bag.

As with all non-canon pairings. ;) Or really, all pairings, period.

I'm not into boy slash, either, but mostly because the idea of two guys together is fairly boring to me. I guess I am diffeent from many women in that way.

Characterwise, I find Simon/Jayne more believable than many hetero non-canon pairings out there, so that is not a factor to me.

Girl slash, though... yay! It's just a way of exploring two characters as a pairing. The fact that they're both the same gender is pretty secondary to the view of their inner life, to me.

IMALEAF

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 3:50 PM

I'm not into slash fic so I have mostly just stuck to Rayne stuff to avoid an accidents

But I agree better labeling will be better for everyone.

~~River: Bible's broken. Contradictions, false logics. Doesn't make sense.~~

MAL4PREZ

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 3:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
The fact that they're both the same gender is pretty secondary to the view of their inner life, to me.

Well said - hurrah!

And, to back up Sameerta, the best solution to fic you don't like is to simply not read it!!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

THEKIDFLASH

Thursday, June 8, 2006 1:02 AM

I just don't like it, yeah, I do avoid it. But some how, seeing JayneXMal kinda made my heart sink..

I dunno, it's just I feel some people write Slash just for the sake of writing slash. Augh..

espeically though, the slash that comes out of cartoons made for kids.. which is primarally where I draw the line. but otherwise I just feel it's out of character.. for the most part.

but yeah, I could see where people would want to explore that side of the character.

Still doesn't sit right with me.

MORWEN112

Thursday, June 8, 2006 1:20 AM

I don't have anything against slash fics as such...I treat them like I do other pairings that I don't particularly like- I may not understand them or read fanfics about them, but I'm not going to make a fuss about it.

I do think that labelling should be clearer in some cases. I've stumbled into some thing unawares that were downright creepifyin'. And I do think that some fanfiction in general seems to be written more for smut than anything, which seems more than slightly out of taste.

Having said that, though, I can honestly say that I really don't see how anybody could think that Mal and Jayne are that interested in each other. Or Jayne and Simon.

But hey- some people juggle geese.

Mine is an evil sugar high laugh! Bwahahahaha!

Morwen

VERA2529

Thursday, June 8, 2006 1:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

And, to back up Sameerta, the best solution to fic you don't like is to simply not read it!!

I totally agree here with m4p. There is so much fanfc on this site (and others) and surely it is not all slash, so why waste time reading something that will offend you. As for the stumbling on to it, I also agree with the better labeling.

I think slash can be fun, but its not my favorite read. I used to read a lot of Highlander fic and slash was rampant in that 'verse. I have wondered why so many women write slash fic. Any women writing slash want to comment?

I'm not judging anyone I'm just curious what the attraction is to write it.

THEKIDFLASH

Thursday, June 8, 2006 1:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by vera2529:

I have wondered why so many women write slash fic. Any women writing slash want to comment?

I'm not judging anyone I'm just curious what the attraction is to write it.

Pretty much why I started it.

I don't go lookin for it, hell I barly even read fanfics! (I like comics better. Having a comic shop right near my ship port really helps!)

Anyway, point is, I just don't see the attraction, and it as I said before, didn't feel good about it.

that's all.

SAMEERTIA

Thursday, June 8, 2006 2:54 AM

Vera!
Yum! Highlander Fic Slash! Ohhh for the old days of the Highlander Quill Club and Eng and Rory and the gang! OOOOOOOh how I miss it so!

Ahem, enough of that. I shall not dwell on the brilliance that was ensconced at the HQC.

Why do I write slash?
Well, I guess it's like anything that I write- I get a concept, a fantasy in words, and I write it down. Sometimes I half wonder if I'm not really a gay man in a womans body, but any more contemplation of my sexuality might lead to believing I'm actually attracted to little grey aliens and was abducted as a child or somthing, so...

Where was I? Oh yes, I like the idea of men having sex with men. For some reason, the idea that that glance between Mal and Simon, when Mal and Zoe rescue them in "Safe" might, just possibly, lead to something more intimate.
Or Kaylee and Inara's "Hey you", all filled with affection, might be something more than friendship.

I can't help it! I think everyone should have more sex, and that includes our BDHs!
Yes, I'm incorrigible and I will burn in hell for all eternity, I'm sure.

FLAUTISTFIRST

Thursday, June 8, 2006 4:55 AM

Okay, I'm taking this opportunity to ask a stupid question: What is "slash fic?"

I see it referred to, but I don't know what it is, and I frankly haven't spent much time (none) reading fanfic.

Thanks for educating me.

There's no place I can be since I found serenity.

SAMEERTIA

Thursday, June 8, 2006 5:02 AM

Slash fiction is fiction portraying same-sex relationships.

I tend to write erotica, but a substantial portion of slash fiction is not erotic, or even the slightest bit smutty, instead prefering to explore relationships from the emotional-personal side.

PEULSAR5

Thursday, June 8, 2006 5:11 AM

Slash fic is usually same sex pairings. There are too many good points made in this thread to copy them all here, but I would like to lend my voice to the chorus. I love to read fanfic (not just Firely) and while slash is not really my mug of mudder's milk, if you enjoy it you have the right to read it to your heart's content.

THEKIDFLASH

Thursday, June 8, 2006 5:54 AM

I've seen the sad underbelly of the slash community, so I'm constently questioning it.

Friend of mine got a big video threat cause she banned this child preditor, Who was proven to be a child preditor, who wrote Slash fics, with little kids in em..

Stuff like that.

Course I have an uncanny obsession with canon relation ships.. Very uncanny!

SHINYYUKARI

Thursday, June 8, 2006 7:16 AM

Firefly slash is just a bit weird for me...Mainly because there was nothing really that Slashy in the series to begin with. Except some of the Kaylee and Inara moments but that inspires fluffy thoughts at best.

I will admit to dabbling in the fluffly Slash area but it's all been band slash. A few bands(won't name names) pratically slash themselves. Now, my whole thing is, if it seems to Slash itsself or you can see a possible way those two characters could have a romantic relationship, then go for it! Just warn me, okay?

"Well next time you be the bait!"~Andy Hurley
"Okay! Everybody not talking about sex, in here. Everybody else, elsewhere."~Wash
Browncoats are the coolest fans I've ever seen.

SPACEANJL

Thursday, June 8, 2006 10:01 AM

Gonna agree here. None of these characters worked for me as slash pairings. In fact, I have this vision of the men of Serenity all freaking out at the very suggestion of being 'sly' - much spitting of coffee, and spluttering.

SpaceAnJL

DEEPGIRL187

Thursday, June 8, 2006 12:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
Yes, I'm incorrigible and I will burn in hell for all eternity, I'm sure.

Have you joined the Forsaken yet?

**************************************************

"I'm going to sing the doom song! Doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, dooooooom...."

AGENTROUKA

Thursday, June 8, 2006 2:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
Gonna agree here. None of these characters worked for me as slash pairings. In fact, I have this vision of the men of Serenity all freaking out at the very suggestion of being 'sly' - much spitting of coffee, and spluttering.

SpaceAnJL

Mal didn't have that reaction when Nandi suggested it... He was all calm about it, which implies that it's not a big deal at all.

I imagine the only one to freak out might be Jayne, but then, who knows?

I'd like to think that 500 years in the future men might be more secure in their sexuality than that.

SPACEANJL

Thursday, June 8, 2006 3:02 PM

I know, it was just the mental image. Perhaps River coming out with something calm and utterly inappropriate mid-mealtime...I imagine the Core planets are probably quite chilled out, but some of the Rimward planets, particularly those with a more religious outlook, might not be so enlightened.

SpaceAnJL

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, June 8, 2006 3:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Mal didn't have that reaction when Nandi suggested it... He was all calm about it, which implies that it's not a big deal at all.

I imagine the only one to freak out might be Jayne, but then, who knows?

I'd like to think that 500 years in the future men might be more secure in their sexuality than that.

Yeah, I get the feeling Jayne wouldn't be one to turn down a sex opportunity, although he might be a little opinionated about whos doing what...

And Mal's reaction to Nandi's question left plenty of wiggle room. "No, I lean toward womenfolk..." Just lean?

Though, I must admit, the first time I happened across a Mal/Simon (Before I knew what slash meant) I was horribly offended - because I want Mal for the women! Back off Simon, he's mine!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

AGENTROUKA

Thursday, June 8, 2006 3:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
I know, it was just the mental image. Perhaps River coming out with something calm and utterly inappropriate mid-mealtime...I imagine the Core planets are probably quite chilled out, but some of the Rimward planets, particularly those with a more religious outlook, might not be so enlightened.

SpaceAnJL

I agree with the religious outlook and the Rimworlds... one more reason why the Core isn't all evil. They *are* more enlightened and liberal in many ways, even if they are overtly controlling in others.

I imagine if River suddenly started describing explicit sexual behavior in any way shape or form it'd be Mal and Simon spewing coffee every which way! *G*

EMBERS

Thursday, June 8, 2006 3:14 PM

can't say that I understand WHY anyone would write slash...but it is a time honored tradition (dating back to Cap't Kirk & Spock getting it on) and it is occassionally HI*larious!

BTW deepgirl187: those are some amazing icons you have there!

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse
have you checked out this thread?:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

and listen to 'I'm Going To See Serenity':
http://music.podshow.com/music/listeners/artistdetails.php?BandHash=a0
c814e1229742ce77ed4497cbf4631c

AGENTROUKA

Thursday, June 8, 2006 3:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

Yeah, I get the feeling Jayne wouldn't be one to turn down a sex opportunity, although he might be a little opinionated about whos doing what...

I definitely agree with that!

Quote:

And Mal's reaction to Nandi's question left plenty of wiggle room. "No, I lean toward womenfolk..." Just lean?

Could be a hint...! Or a polite and inoffensive way of phrasing it, who knows.

Somehow the idea of Mal calmly aknowledging the idea of a less-than-static kind of sexuality tickles me a lot. It would fit with his "Live and let live - as long as you leave me the hell alone." attitude.

Quote:

Though, I must admit, the first time I happened across a Mal/Simon (Before I knew what slash meant) I was horribly offended - because I want Mal for the women! Back off Simon, he's mine!

Lol! I'm sure for Mal it's all about the individual person. He's equal opportunity like that. ;) Unless you're Alliance. Then options might be limited to violence and trickery.

SAMEERTIA

Thursday, June 8, 2006 3:45 PM

Kidflash wrote:

Quote:
I've seen the sad underbelly of the slash community, so I'm constently questioning it.

Friend of mine got a big video threat cause she banned this child preditor, Who was proven to be a child preditor, who wrote Slash fics, with little kids in em..

I just have to answer to this.

That is not slash- it is pedophilia. And that qualifies as something that is very very wrong. I write slash, belong to a number of slash-fic communities, and the only time pedophiliac fic is tolerated is when it's clearly a perp abusing a child (and the perp gets what he deserves).

Please do not qualify this sort of writing as a sample of the slash-writing community.

THEKIDFLASH

Friday, June 9, 2006 12:27 AM

I'm not, I'm just mentioning it.

It's just there's alot of assholes out there like that, and also those who kind of try and shove their pairings down your throat! Can't back that up man!

Mostly on deviantart though.. If you want my advice, Steer Clear!

CESARE

Friday, June 9, 2006 1:03 AM

Got to say I quite dislike (almost detest) slash-fic in general.
I'm not prejudiced against homosexuals or lesbians in any way.
I like fanfic that respects the "canon" - and if it challenges it, it does so in an original or at least intelligent way. Slash is not original... And most of the time it is not very intelligent.
In my opinion, slash, however well-written, hardly adds any dimension to a character or explores it or something. It is a violation of the characters - almost a rape. I guess it is most visible in the tons of JRRT based slash available online... Just to illustrate - Tolkien (that good old bigot catholic) must rotate in his grave like crazy at the notion of Aragorn and Legolas having sex.
Taking characters somebody else created and twisting them horribly to get them into some sort of homoerotic relationship in which they would otherwise probably never engage...
It's everybody's right to do that I guess... I just don't get it. What for?
I think it is a real shame that so many girls out there waste their time writing bad fanfic instead of writing good gay-porn...;-)

Just my humble opinion, of course...;-)

THEKIDFLASH

Friday, June 9, 2006 2:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cesare:
Got to say I quite dislike (almost detest) slash-fic in general.
I'm not prejudiced against homosexuals or lesbians in any way.
I like fanfic that respects the "canon" - and if it challenges it, it does so in an original or at least intelligent way. Slash is not original... And most of the time it is not very intelligent.
In my opinion, slash, however well-written, hardly adds any dimension to a character or explores it or something. It is a violation of the characters - almost a rape. I guess it is most visible in the tons of JRRT based slash available online... Just to illustrate - Tolkien (that good old bigot catholic) must rotate in his grave like crazy at the notion of Aragorn and Legolas having sex.
Taking characters somebody else created and twisting them horribly to get them into some sort of homoerotic relationship in which they would otherwise probably never engage...
It's everybody's right to do that I guess... I just don't get it. What for?
I think it is a real shame that so many girls out there waste their time writing bad fanfic instead of writing good gay-porn...;-)

Just my humble opinion, of course...;-)

..thank you. Exactly. you said what I couldn't!

It's basically what I was trying to say, I tend to write alot of off the wall stuff when I do write but it's allways based on canon in some way or another.

I just tend to think sex is overrated and cheap entertainment as is. There's alot more that people can write about.

SAMEERTIA

Friday, June 9, 2006 2:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cesare:
\I think it is a real shame that so many girls out there waste their time writing bad fanfic instead of writing good gay-porn...;-)

Just my humble opinion, of course...;-)

See, now here's where I start to have a problem.

I got no problem with you not liking what I write. That's the way it is.
But I got a problem with someone telling me I write "bad fanfiction instead of writing good gay porn", especially if you detest slash so badly that you would never even consider reading my writing.

Don't like it, then don't read it. But slamming other people's writing just because you don't like the subject matter is a sure-fire way to piss me off.

There is truly a ton of really bad fanfiction out there of all flavors, and not just slash. There's also tons of excellent, well written fanfiction out there, and some of it IS slash.

Don't like it, don't read it, but why insult the people who DO like it?

CESARE

Friday, June 9, 2006 3:06 AM

Don't get me wrong - write whatever you want and if you like it, you are certainly entitled to it.
I was talking generally, not about YOUR fanfics, by the way.
Didn't mean to piss you off.
However, that statement that made you so angry is based on my definition of good fanfic.
(Sure, even the definition can be a matter of further discussion and we might never agree on it...;-))
In my opinion, good fanfic should not deliberately violate the canon and the characters. Making an obviously straight character lie - say - Mal (or Daniel Jackson or whoever) gay - it is no better than making an obviously gay character straight.
I've got problem with deliberately twisting and changing the characters only to make them fit to your story.
And lots of fanfic that I would label as "bad fanfiction" would make a wonderful non-derivative original fiction, since lots of bad fanfic (again - bad by *my* definition), including slash, is excellently written.
I am not telling you what you should write...
I was just wondering why some really good writers don't make up their own stories and their own characters, instead of doing...things...to characters that do not belong to them.

Sure, any fanfic has at least a bit of "heresy" to it, since you are messing with somebody else's work and are always in danger of misinterpreting some ideas and concepts and doing things the author would not approve of.
But slash does that pretty deliberately and mercilessly, if you ask me...
(OK - I know you don't...;-))

So - any of you - write whatever you want. I got no right whatsoever to prevent you from it and I don't mean to. Sorry if bits of my previous post came across this way.
I was just expressing my opinion on slash fanfic, that's it...

THEKIDFLASH

Friday, June 9, 2006 3:10 AM

I don't think I ment to...
and don't get me wrong, I can appreciate Yaoi, but Usually in original fiction.

ACtually.. I Prefer it that way.
Sorry..

Eh.. Bad fanfiction in my opinion is basically done like an AIM conversation on crack. Level 1...

Level 2, Everything's a Mess, no story structure, poor spelling and grammer.

Level 3: Stories got structure, but there's so many inconsistances, Cliche's and Mary sues that it takes away.. well.. from everything.

then there's Level 4... use a containment suit..

Possibility of bad Mary sues, but the characters are out of character for authorly selfish reasons.

Now I'd read a fic if it was well written, but since I really decline from reading fics in general cause of all the times I've read them and they've fallen into the 4 levels above..
which is why I'm was venting earlier.

Bah, all I want to read right now are the Firefly Novels they promised us!

SAMEERTIA

Friday, June 9, 2006 3:48 AM

I'm not pissed off. Yet.
And I'm not speaking just for myself. I'm well aware that your comments were general, and aimed at slash-writers in general.

I've been writing slash on the net for over ten years now (MY GOD!), and my skin is pretty thick.

It's just that when I see someone bashing slash fanfic writers for writing slash fanfic, I have to wonder why there is a need to do that?

I mean, I'm not out there bashing every mary-sue writer, just because I can't stand mary-sues. (Although if you want a BRILLIANT Tolkien fanfic that is a blatant Mary-Sue, but so well written that it doesn't matter, check out Rana1's "Tale of Marian" at www.fanfiction.net.)

In fact, check it out anyway. It's beautiful!
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1496389/1/

My point is, I think we all want to be better writers, so I can wade through any number of poor grammar stories, badly spelled disasters, plot-hole laden pain-fests, and still leave a review at the end that can be NICE, gentle, help point the author in a direction that might make the story better and improve them as writers.

But just slamming authors because they write something that you don't enjoy reading? Where does that get fun?

I do write original fiction. I even write original erotica. But you don't get to read THAT online for free. When it gets published, then I'll go public with it.

Don't assume that just because we publish fun fanfiction on the Internet that we don't also have original works. You can't BE a writer without writing original works. It just doesn't happen.

:)

THEKIDFLASH

Friday, June 9, 2006 4:28 AM

in my world there's a fine line between bashing and venting.

My aim was to Vent and I sincearly aplogize if I went and crossed the line.

Point is I'm not ignorant, just kinda wanted to voice my feelin's about slash for this particular series.

Feels a bit wrong. No harm done I hope though.

SAMEERTIA

Friday, June 9, 2006 4:40 AM

No harm done, TheKidFlash.
It was mostly Cesare's comment about 'instead of writing bad slash-fic' that set me off.
I think you were just saying that you didn't like it, and that's fine.

Everyone likes something different, or we wouldn't be people.

EMBERS

Friday, June 9, 2006 5:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by thekidflash:
Quote:
Originally posted by Cesare:
Got to say I quite dislike (almost detest) slash-fic in general.
I'm not prejudiced against homosexuals or lesbians in any way.
I like fanfic that respects the "canon" - and if it challenges it, it does so in an original or at least intelligent way. Slash is not original...

..thank you. Exactly. you said what I couldn't!

It's basically what I was trying to say, I tend to write alot of off the wall stuff when I do write but it's allways based on canon in some way or another.

I just tend to think sex is overrated and cheap entertainment as is. There's alot more that people can write about.

I just want to add one more POV to the discussion...
it may be true that Tolkein is spinning in his grave,
and JKR has made it clear that she doesn't appreciate the 'alternative pairings' to her canon story....
BUT if you are talking about Joss Whedon then don't be so sure you have any idea what 'canon' is.

In this Whedonesque thread:
http://whedonesque.com/comments/9323
You can read down and find the following post made by Joss himself:

Quote:
Honestly, what's most fascinating is that every post here tells me more about the poster than about the subject matter. That's what makes fiction grand. I will say a few things:

1)When I called James "the best ingenue Angel ever had" I merely meant that there was enormous acting chemistry between them. After throwing different actresses up against David (sometimes literally) it was gratifying to find someone who brought out passion in David's performance that I'd never seen. I mean, look at Caveman vs Astronauts, for god's sake! David is off the charts hilarious. I learned early on to film those two in one-ers instead of regular coverage because their energy just kept increasing. Others have misinterpreted that quote before.

2)What may or may not have happened is entirely up to the viewer, that's what makes it art. Having said that, I know EXACTLY what happened and it's funny that I'm never going to tell anyone. But did no one see the obvious smoldering passion between the Blue Hand guys? MAN, did you guys miss the boat.

3)In my world, heroes bugger each other senseless. Not all of them, but more than you'd think, and probably not who you're thinking. But seriously, Anybody here care to tell Apollo and the Midnighter how a hero should behave? To their faces?

joss | January 20, 19:00 CET

so as far as you know, the slash fan fic is as much canon as any other pairing....
just sayin'

KANEMAN

Friday, June 9, 2006 6:03 AM

If someone likes slash-fic fine...It should be labeled...But, I will never see the sense in taking characters that are straight and making them gay...Why? If Joss wanted Mal to be gay he would have wrote it. For the most part a true fan-fic doesn't totally change the character of a role.(yes sexuality is a major component of character). Why do it? Is it a political statement?

Just wondering...Please don't say artistic freedom.

EMBERS

Friday, June 9, 2006 6:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
If Joss wanted Mal to be gay he would have wrote it. For the most part a true fan-fic doesn't totally change the character of a role.(yes sexuality is a major component of character).

and I repeat:
Joss NEVER ever said that Mal has never had a gay experience...
Joss has never gone into the details of his characters 'preferences' at all...
YOU assume Mal is straight, fine...
but that only says something about you, not about Mal.

I would ask you to read Joss' post (which I quoted above) again...
particularly where Joss himself said:

Quote:
3)In my world, heroes bugger each other senseless. Not all of them, but more than you'd think, and probably not who you're thinking.

BULLET1510

Friday, June 9, 2006 8:06 AM

Hi,

My two cents worth...

I have read some very good Firefly fanfic, they have been a mixture of gen, het and slash, in fact some of the most affecting for me emotionally have been ones involving *gasp* Mal and Jayne!!!

I believe that the worth of a piece of fiction - whether based on a totally original concept or based on an existing premise - is in the quality of the writing and not the slavish adhesion to a pre-determined set of pararimeters (if indeed they are as set as some seem to believe), after all we only saw 14 episodes of Firefly and Joss has clearly shown in his writings that same sex relationships are just as valid in his 'verses as hetro ones.

My motto is "Why limit yourself - when so many other people are willing to do it for you"

AGENTROUKA

Friday, June 9, 2006 8:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
If Joss wanted Mal to be gay he would have wrote it. For the most part a true fan-fic doesn't totally change the character of a role.(yes sexuality is a major component of character).

and I repeat:
Joss NEVER ever said that Mal has never had a gay experience...
Joss has never gone into the details of his characters 'preferences' at all...
YOU assume Mal is straight, fine...
but that only says something about you, not about Mal.

I would ask you to read Joss' post (which I quoted above) again...
particularly where Joss himself said:
Quote:
3)In my world, heroes bugger each other senseless. Not all of them, but more than you'd think, and probably not who you're thinking.

AMEN!

This whole "a rape of the character" thing... Well, anything that's not strictly the tv show itself is going to call on personal perception and interpretation (and yes, interest) from the fanfic writer to get anything written.

That means a whole lot of things are out there that some consider perfectly plausible and others horrible out of character, and there are few instances when things can be "proven" by canon either way, especially once you get to a level of writing where structure and grammar no longer play a role because it's technically very skilled.

To me, Mal having sex with a random male soldier in his War past is a LOT more likely than him ever touching Kaylee or Zoe or River that way, but there is an equal lack of canon support for either scenario, so... there's no official telling which is more wrong. Or not wrong at all.

It's a very fluid world out there. I am always confused why people get so uppity about slash but not about EVERYthing that is non-canon, especially if they argue from the stand-point of keeping the characters in character.

DEEPGIRL187

Friday, June 9, 2006 1:20 PM

Okay, I'll add my voice to this little melee:

While I don't read male slash (for Firefly), I also don't have a problem with people writing it. Slash may not be to everyone's liking, but hey, some people juggle geese, right? There are plenty of Firefly fan fic out there to read, so I think everyone's tastes can be satisfied if they look hard enough. And to be perfectly honest, I agree with Mal4Prez when it comes to slash; I'd rather have the boys to myself!

Oh, and glad you like the icons, Embers. Take a trip to photobucket.com to find some of your own shininess.

**************************************************

"I'm going to sing the doom song! Doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, dooooooom...."

SAMEERTIA

Friday, June 9, 2006 3:51 PM

Well, as for Mal being gay, it's certain that he ISN'T. However, he could be bisexual, easily. When Nandi asks him, he looks down at the gun, not directly at her, and says, "No..no I lean towards womenfolk."

I find the delivery of that line highly suspicious, especially knowing enough bi men who are ashamed of those 'other leanings'. But that's just me.

*shrug*
Like I said above, don't like? Don't read.

And you'll notice that while JK Rowling has said, "ooh, I wish you guys wouldn't do that! Harry and Draco? Are you insane?" She hasn't asked the authors to stop, not like Anne McCaffery, who has VERY strict rules for fanfiction in her worlds. (She used to not allow it all.) If JK came out and said, "Don't do this. I mean it." I'm sure authors would be just as respecting as we are for Mrs. McCaffery.

As for JRR, he is dead. He is long dead and has ceased to care in the slightest how we interpret his world. His family and estate have not come out and said, "Hey! No fanfic! Stop it!".

Of course, then we could just write in the movie-verse until P.J. and gang jump on us for THAT...but really, can we take the author of "Meet the Feebles" seriously if he tells us to stop writing slash centered around his movies? hmmmmmmmmm....

And how many people would have said Willow was entirely straight early on in Buffy?

EMBERS

Friday, June 9, 2006 4:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
"Hey! No fanfic! Stop it!".

I heard once that Anne Rice tried really hard to prevent all fan fic about Lestat, but actually it is pretty hard to stop people's imaginations....

We're luckier w/a creator like Joss:
naturally we have to obey the licensing rules (no selling and making money off of characters owned by someone else) BUT
but Joss recognizes that he has created iconic characters that people love and he is totally cool about fan fic.

Quote:

And how many people would have said Willow was entirely straight early on in Buffy?

Yeah, Joss has said many time that he was on purposely writing BOTH Willow and Xander as ambiguously gay in High School because he was thinking that one or the other would 'come out' in their 20s...
Seth Green leaving the show in the 4th season tipped the scales in Willow's favor, but if it had been Emma Cawfield leaving then we might have seen Xander discover his true sexual identity instead.

Fact is that Joss is very open to this stuff, more so than most of his fans evidently.

CESARE

Friday, June 9, 2006 8:13 PM

Just thought I'd clarify a few things...
I was referring to slash in general, wasn't being Firefly specific...
So - as for your posts concerning Joss's attitude towards alternative interpretations - I accept your arguments. You've been around Firefly longer, so you should know better than I do.

As to fanfic in general - sure, JRRT is dead.
It is also true that the moment an author releases or publishes his/her work, it ceases to be his/hers exclusively. People are free to have ideas and interpret things.

But I don't really think that sticking to the canon when writing fanfic is "slavish" (is that the correct word?). It's simply part of the game. If I want to "let the winged fancy roam", I make up my own setting and characters...
For me, writing fanfic would be deprived of a great deal of fun, if it didn't involve trying to get the characters, the setting and the "paradigm" - or whatever you'd call it - right. It is a challenge that a standard original fiction won't pose.
My preferred way is to create a story with the original characters and setting in mind - keeping in mind what this or that guy would most probably do; and if I decide to develop the characters or setting, I prefer to try my best to build the story on some solid grounds...
Not vice versa - to modify the characters and setting to fit into MY story.
Which is IMHO the case with most slash fanfic out there... (With possible exceptions, I admit...;-))

I confess I don't like the whole "slash" concept, since - let's admit it - most of it is something like "O'Neill and Danny-boy are good friends and have all those funny banter exchanges, they MUST have some sort of sexual relationship". Or "this character hates the other character's guts, they MUST have some sort of sexual relationship."
I used to read a lot of slash a couple of years back...;-)
Guess the moment when slash lost the last remains of charm for me was when I saw somewhere (and decided not to read) "The Deer Hunter" slash (if I remember correctly, it involved Nicky and the French guy.)

But to be fair - violation of characters is not exclusive to slash, of course.

Didn't want to rant for so long.
Guess I should shut up, or I'll start my posting over here by making enemies...;-)
*hides*

BLUEEYEDBRIGADIER

Friday, June 9, 2006 9:30 PM

Well...guess I might as well add my 2 platinum;)

Been said innumerable times here, but slash fic is about personal taste. I can read male slash fic (Lvs2read's "Family" series is a good example of slash fic that works well in my own mind). Tend to prefer female slash pairings (damn me and my seemingly hetero preferences *wink*), but I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the author every time I look at something.

Honestly, I have read just as much "crap" het fanfic as I have read slash fic in my time. To me, it's all about how the author works with the material they are using. Now...I can see a Kaylee/Inara pairing cuz of their close friendship and fairly similiar POVs about sex and intimacy, and Mal/Simon works cuz I have perceived a kindred nature between both of them when it comes to things like freedom, loved ones and being in authority. That doesn't mean I ain't willing to consider other pairing of any sort;)

And yeah...anything created by Joss Whedon should automatically get a label "highly flexible" and/or "subject to sudden change." The number of hook-ups and break-ups amongst his televised works should be an open invitation for interpretation! I mean, Willow (as an example) went from pining for Xander to falling for Oz to being in love with Tara to trying out a relationship with Kennedy within 7 years, with crazy moments in between.

Really...I can understand the POV that slash fics seem polar opposite to how things are presented, even if I don't agree with it. Having a disclaimer (even a basic "Slash fic inside") can go a long way to keeping a tenuous peace.

BlueEyedBrigadier

Literature has shown us some of humanity's greatest achievements; history, some of our greatest failures -- Alun Lewis

NUCLEARDAY

Saturday, June 10, 2006 5:22 PM

Just throwing my two cents in here as well. I'm still working my way through the fanfic on this site, and I haven't gotten terribly far, so I don't have the most educated opinion on this, but:

I've yet to accidentally read a fic that I didn't know was slash/ erotica when I wasn't in the mood, so at least from my experience I haven't had much trouble with the labelling.

I'll also have to agree with those who recommend avoiding any pairing you're not into. And there's just far too little canon as it what with our 14 episodes and one BDM to positively rule out anything as totally implausible.

Myself, I've found the fic around here to be well above par for the most part. A good few of the writers could certainly be looking towards getting some actual published writing from the examples I've seen in here.

Also, I've found I've come across some real gems reading some of the stuff I'm generally not into, and giving those a try. There's a couple that come to mind that I read on a whim and I'm glad I did. It's late in my day over here, so I can't think of many titles, though. One I remember was the series of "Frecklets" that were going around say a month or two ago. I'd give mention of the author if I could remember who it was, but I got a real kick out of that, and I don't generally see much in the whole Jayne/ Kaylee pairing.

Anyways, just another long-winded way of saying, sometimes if you keep an open mind, you'll be suprised at what you find. :P

________________________________________________
You can take my Browncoat when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. (Or if Kaylee asks me nicely...)

SAMEERTIA

Saturday, June 10, 2006 6:22 PM

"Frecklets" is fabulous! Fizzled a bit at the end, but the corridor scene, "not playing anymore, bao bei" (Forgive me, I don't remember the exact line) gave me shivers for a week! Even if you're not a Jaylee shipper, try it. You might like it.

EMBERS

Saturday, June 10, 2006 7:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
"Frecklets" is fabulous!

I've been looking for it (after two recommendations I want to read it!) but I can't find it...
can you give us a link?

thanks

EPEYON

Saturday, June 10, 2006 7:21 PM

One of the things about slash in Firefly, is that I hate Mal slash. Mostly because he says he's not gay. In Heart of Gold there's a scene when he and Nandi are looking at her pistols.

NANDI:You ain't looked at one of 'em as long or as lovin' as you looked at those pistols. You're not sly, are you? 'cause I got my boys...

MAL:Sly? No. I lean towards womenfolk. Just one thing at a time. Never like complications.

Now I guess people either don't have that episode, weren't paying attention, or can't figure out what words mean from context.

EMBERS

Saturday, June 10, 2006 7:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Epeyon:

Now I guess people either don't have that episode, weren't paying attention, or can't figure out what words mean from context.

and I'm guessing you didn't bother to read the rest of this thread...
so you didn't notice that Joss hasn't ruled out anything
and Mal saying 'I lean to women folk'
does not mean he would never ever be w/a man, or has never ever been with one.

SAMEERTIA

Saturday, June 10, 2006 7:41 PM

Thank you, Embers.
Epeyon doesn't seem to understand the layers of context and subcontext in that line. :)

But that's okay. It's all open to interpretation until we actually SEE Mal say, "Simon, I ain't sly and you make one more pass me and your goin' out the airlock, dong ma?!?!?"

At least, that's about what it would take for me.

DEEPGIRL187

Saturday, June 10, 2006 7:51 PM

This is just a shameless plug, but it's for a good cause.

Since we seem to have a lot of fanfic readers here, everyone please head on over to the Blue Sun Room forum, where you'll find a thread about the 2005 Strawberry Awards. I spent a few hours reading many of the nominations, and they are all very high quality. Trust me, you won't be disappointed.

Edit: Oh, and by the way, you can vote for the entries if you're a member of LiveJournal (though I think they're fixing it so non-members can vote too).

*************************************************

It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.

EPEYON

Saturday, June 10, 2006 7:54 PM

But you can't just go off of the line. How the actor gives the line can also effect the character. How it's given it's more of a "I lean towards females, and don't have any interest in males." Plus, when Mal says most things, he doesn't think of the subtext. And no means no. I don't read anymore into a statement when they say 'no'.

EMBERS

Saturday, June 10, 2006 8:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Epeyon:
But you can't just go off of the line. How the actor gives the line can also effect the character. How it's given it's more of a "I lean towards females, and don't have any interest in males." Plus, when Mal says most things, he doesn't think of the subtext. And no means no. I don't read anymore into a statement when they say 'no'.

Just because you want to interpret the line as narrowly as possible does not mean that everyone else has to,
OR that Joss (the character's creator) does.

Here is an excerpt of what Joss said at Whedonesque (which I gave in full previously in this thread):

Quote:
Honestly, what's most fascinating is that every post here tells me more about the poster than about the subject matter. That's what makes fiction grand. I will say a few things:

2)What may or may not have happened is entirely up to the viewer, that's what makes it art. Having said that, I know EXACTLY what happened and it's funny that I'm never going to tell anyone. But did no one see the obvious smoldering passion between the Blue Hand guys? MAN, did you guys miss the boat.

3)In my world, heroes bugger each other senseless. Not all of them, but more than you'd think, and probably not who you're thinking. But seriously, Anybody here care to tell Apollo and the Midnighter how a hero should behave? To their faces?

joss | January 20, 19:00 CET

If Joss had wanted Mal to just say 'no'
then that is what he would have said,
they on purposely qualified that 'no' with the word lean...
Fact is that Joss will never have any character slam the door on anything, he likes things left open.
Therefore the narrow interpretation of the line is always a mistake. It is a mistake you are free to make any time you like, but do not expect everyone else to agree with you.
Maybe if you watch Buffy and Angel you'll begin to understand that.

SAMEERTIA

Saturday, June 10, 2006 8:37 PM

And I think that the delivery of that line is everything! He's not lookin' at Nandi, he's looking at the gun, and then away again, like he's hiding something.

And then, there's "Safe".... Every moment of "Safe" is a demonstration of a growing understanding between Mal and Simon. Sexual? Not so much, but the context for something more is there, I think.

SAMEERTIA

Saturday, June 10, 2006 8:52 PM

The Frecklets!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.fireflyfans.net/sunroomitem.asp?i=9661

Maantre is the author.
Of course, now I've just been happily rereading instead of getting back over here and posting the link.

EMBERS

Saturday, June 10, 2006 9:21 PM

and in 'Our Mrs. Reynolds' during the teaser, Inara asks how Mal knew about the pleasures of the air flow of wearing a dress, and he replied:
"You can't open the book of my life
and jump in the middle. Like woman,
I am a mystery"
So what shall we read into THAT?! LOL

Thank you for the link, I'm really enjoying Freckles!

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse
have you checked out this thread?:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

and listen to 'I'm Going To See Serenity':
http://music.podshow.com/music/listeners/artistdetails.php?BandHash=a0
c814e1229742ce77ed4497cbf4631c

NUCLEARDAY

Sunday, June 11, 2006 1:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Epeyon:
One of the things about slash in Firefly, is that I hate Mal slash. Mostly because he says he's not gay. In Heart of Gold there's a scene when he and Nandi are looking at her pistols.

Now I guess people either don't have that episode, weren't paying attention, or can't figure out what words mean from context.

Personally, I think all of that is superfluous, no offense. This applies to all fanfic in general, not just slash; but I take it all as more of a "what if" scenario than something that's supposed to be taken as canon anyways. It's just people playing around with the characters. There's a couple projects out there that aim to follow quite closely to the story, out there, but even then it's still just a big "what if?"

________________________________________________
You can take my Browncoat when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. (Or if Kaylee asks me nicely...)

BIGWOLF18

Sunday, June 11, 2006 1:35 AM

people can write what they like, but i'm 13 and i accidentaly saw a kaylee/river smut,slash, now, like i said, people can write what they like but they've got to mark it, because otherwise how would we know if it was a nice little story, full of freindly blood and politly throwing people out the airlock, or an awful, smutty peice of slash.

now, i've got nothing against romance stories, i'm partial to a bit of fluff every now and again, but mark it for what it is gorramit!

BIGWOLF18

Sunday, June 11, 2006 1:35 AM

oops double post

MELEK

Monday, June 12, 2006 11:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
Thank you, Embers.
Epeyon doesn't seem to understand the layers of context and subcontext in that line. :)

But that's okay. It's all open to interpretation until we actually SEE Mal say, "Simon, I ain't sly and you make one more pass me and your goin' out the airlock, dong ma?!?!?"

At least, that's about what it would take for me.

If I may add my opinion here, for what little it's worth: I've only recently gotten into fanfic (mostly firefly at the moment, though I've dabbled in a bit of canon doctor who stuff), and until very recently was quite violently opposed to slash. I have to say though, there /is/ some good stuff out there; generally the stuff that takes what Joss did and just puts a /little/ spin on it, a tiny 'what if..' and runs with it in interesting and often complex ways.

If I had the time to search for links, I'd post examples of my favourites, but the main thing for me is consistent and believable characterisation. I don't really care whether it's gay, straight, bi, or a threesome, so long as those characters are acting in a realistic manner (relative to what's already been established on the show). Luckily with a show like firefly, there's so very little to go on in the first place, that a good deal can be left to the imagination. I like what one of the other posters said, about Mal being more likely to have had sex with a random soldier during the war, than with Kaylee or River or Zoe (well.. not sure about Zoe. I can almost buy that;).

What really /does/ piss me off, regardless of sexual orientation in slashfic, is poor characterisation. Like in the example quoted above, from a previous post. I apologise if this was meant in a joking fashion, and if I am dragging it horribly out of context, but it's a good example of what I really dislike. ;) In my mind, Simon would never, never, /never/ come on to /any/one in such a blatant fashion. He spends most of the series being so tangled up in his manners and propriety, that I feel he'd rather drop dead than mention any 'improper' leanings to anyone.

That said, I was sorely disappointed when he and Kaylee got it on in at the end of Serenity, as it seemed more like fan service than a natural progression of their relationship to me.

Anyway, I seem to have gone completely off-track now, but hopefully my point here is clear: slash can be ok, even really good, but breaking a character in order to force a certain fantasy you might have is.. well, kind of lame, in my opinion. ;)

SAMEERTIA

Tuesday, June 13, 2006 1:44 AM

What? Weird duplicate, and then it wouldn't let me edit.

SAMEERTIA

Tuesday, June 13, 2006 1:47 AM

Why don't we have a icon, 'cause I think I need a couple round about now.
Did I once, anywhere, say Simon was blatantly coming on to anyone? Did I even show Simon's actions at all?

What I did was demonstrate an example of what Joss would have to put forward to demonstrate that Mal is absolutetly, without doubt, straight, using an example of what I think Mal would say if he percieved that Simon was making passes at him.

So...yah...total misinterpret. Which means either that my writing was too subtle, or that you missed the total lack of subcontext.

Heck! We DOOO have a icon!

MELEK

Tuesday, June 13, 2006 8:29 PM

I stand corrected then. Humblest apologies for making a wrongful assumption. ;)

Anyway, I was really only trying to illustrate my point about what I dislike in fanfic, while underlining my view that slash is not necessarily bad.

Though, while I'm on the subject, I'll add something else that I forgot to mention before: I wish there was more slash out there that didn't rapidly devolve into pornography. I've found graphic depictions of sex in fanfic to be rarely, rarely interesting myself. Maybe I'm just crazy though.

KANEMAN

Friday, June 30, 2006 5:11 AM

We all love our BDH. Why have this thread at all? We know Mal wants Inara....Last time I checked she was a girl...My friends you have Will..let us have Mal. HE HE HE

STINKINGROSE

Saturday, September 9, 2006 2:04 AM

I've run across a couple slash fics. I wasn't necessarily expecting it and it raised an eyebrow in a "OK, I certainly wouldn't have expected *THAT* one" manner. At least it usually sticks to the original cast of characters and is therefore closer to cannon than anything I've written.
I really liked the one about Nandi and Inara. It was titled something like "last warm day of spring" or the like. It was a well written work full of nice imagery.
I do appreciate a heads up in case I'm not in the mood, because I'm less likely to approach it with an open mind an appreciate it as it deserves.
I have a little trouble with straight smut sometimes, when it comes to that.
I am a nurse in a women's health clinic. I talk sex all day, in many different forms. It takes a bit to shock me.
On another fiber in this thread, I immediately figured that Mal was probably raised on a planet where everybody wore dresses until they were about 3-5 and got their first pair of knee pants. This is a tradition in many places, which has fallen out of use once people got hyper sensitive about "maleness". I have a grandparent who immediately took off his britches and hid them in the rain barrel because they were too restricting (or so the story goes). Maybe they wore kilts. Who knows?

YINYANG

Saturday, September 9, 2006 2:15 AM

Good slash can be funny (although anything involving Jayne, other than whores, gives me shivers); well-written slash can be... well, shash-y; bad slash (Mal/Jayne/Simon, anyone?) is just...

I understand that there's a fanbase for it, and I don't have a problem with those who read it. But... I agree, there needs to be better labeling. When I first started exploring fanfic, I stumbled onto some pretty... well ::clears throat:: yeah...

But, if a writer's gonna write it, than there's a reader to read it. I got no problem with it, myself, 'cept that it's not up my avenue most of the time. It's not that I'm against homosexual pairings; I prefer cannon relationships (and have this new desire to see Jayne marry his favorite whore from HoG).

Oh, and as a sidenote - I haven't really seen any slash exploring pairings with Zoe, or Wash (or, not as many). Just thought that was interesting...

Oh, and my apologies for not reading through the whole thread, and if I repeated something.

---
http://richlabonte.net/tvvote

SHINYTRINKET

Saturday, September 9, 2006 2:30 AM

This is the beauty of fan fiction - it can be anything you want it to be because you're not confined to a formula. It doesn't have to be canon; it can be any pairing you want; any adventure, crossover, whatever. Some people hate slash/smut/non-canon pairings/Mary Sueism/(add your pet peeve here), whatever. Just don't read it if you don't like it. Move on to the next one, 'cause there's plenty to choose from! When you write, somebody out there is gonna love it, somebody's gonna hate it, and somebody's not gonna give a . I can honestly say I've run across a few where I thought...eeeww!But I'm glad I read 'em, because it gave me a little peek into someone else's imagination, even if it was different from mine. And some I thought I might not like because of content, whatever, have bowled me over with how great they ended up being.

*************************************************
The 3 rules of aging:
1. Never bypass a bathroom
2. Never waste an erection
3. Never trust a fart

DANNIISUPERNOVA

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:37 AM

What about the stuff I write? Or meimei42? We write slash and (hopefully) it's not crap. BTW, I updated Better Times on fanfiction.net. Just for you ;)

I love the Castro, because if somebody grabs my ass, I know they're picking my pocket.

DANNIISUPERNOVA

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:41 AM

I totally agree. I mean, it's just fic. That's the point of it isn't it? To let your mind run wild yeah? To make all silly dreams come true. It's not like you're hurting anyone with fanciful ideas. *shrugs*

I love the Castro, because if somebody grabs my ass, I know they're picking my pocket.

LIVLASS

Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:11 PM

then we could just write in the movie-verse until P.J. and gang jump on us for THAT...>>>>>>>>>> but some of the company have already stated that they've read some of the slash and "enjoyed" it.

SABRI3L

Friday, September 22, 2006 3:18 AM

It might actually be good if slash was in a sub category, or if there was some way to search the fics. A big task to complete.....

AGENTROUKA

Friday, September 22, 2006 5:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyTrinket:
Some people hate slash/smut/non-canon pairings/Mary Sueism/(add your pet peeve here), whatever. Just don't read it if you don't like it.

That's great advice. *g*

The only sad thing, though, is that there don't tend to be Mary-Sue warnings.

Pairings? Generally warned.
Slash or het? Generally warned.
Smut/Violence/Canon-bending? Generally warned.

But Mary-Sues? Never! Because every author who writes one tends to vehemently deny that this is the case. I've seen it dozens of times!

That is, I think, the reason why some people react sensitively to reading them. They stumble into it, unwarned.

In fact... Mary-Sue thread? We did one on slash, can we do one on them?

DANNIISUPERNOVA

Friday, September 22, 2006 12:25 PM

Okay, I feel exceptionally stupid for asking this, having read fic and written fic for years, but what the hell is a Mary Sue?? I've heard it mentioned but I've never really gotten what it meant.

I love the Castro, because if somebody grabs my ass, I know they're picking my pocket.

SHINYTRINKET

Saturday, September 23, 2006 2:03 AM

Quote:
The only sad thing, though, is that there don't tend to be Mary-Sue warnings.

I agree. I tried to warn folks reading my current story that I created an OC and I hoped she wasn't too much of an obnoxious Mary Sue...but I only put the warning on the first couple of chapters.

But the term 'Mary Sue' means different things to different folks. To some, it is the classic perfect OC who comes in to save the day - and to others it's ANY OC whatsoever. Nobody's gonna be happy with everything.

*************************************************
The 3 rules of aging:
1. Never bypass a bathroom
2. Never waste an erection
3. Never trust a fart

ELOISA

Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by danniisupernova:
Okay, I feel exceptionally stupid for asking this, having read fic and written fic for years, but what the hell is a Mary Sue?? I've heard it mentioned but I've never really gotten what it meant.

If you pop over to the Blue Sun Room forum, we're talking about Mary Sues over there. http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=12&t=24151. The definition of a Mary Sue is wider than we're really discussing there. It can be any OC even in your own fictional universe if they're too marvellous, which is a problem when dealing with hero characters in a classic space opera 'verse. The key to not Mary Sueing seems to be making fully rounded characters, not just giving a superhero the odd unimportant flaw to make them "feel three-dimensional".

But I digress.

I've written slash in other fandoms and read far more. I've heard another slash author in another 'verse complain that she felt she "had" to write slash because she wanted to write about a relationship between two fully rounded characters (comes back to the Mary Sue-in-own-storyverse problem; in this instance the major female character in the story was a total Mary Sue, and the ones who weren't never got enough canon time to be more than a little pile of personality traits). Firefly doesn't have that problem, thank Joss.

When Firefly slash is well done, in other words when the relationship is properly justified by the author, I enjoy it - but I don't see myself trying to write it as I have trouble internally and unilaterally justifying most of the possible slash pairings in the sense of long-term relationships. Fuck buddy status between Inara and Kaylee and also Mal and Jayne, possibly, but nothing serious. I see the much-touted Simon/Mal dynamic as being permanently unrequited. This is just the way I think about the way they work in my head, and it doesn't stop me enjoying a good Simon/Mal.
Just my tuppence ha'porth.

ADAMWANKENOBI

Saturday, September 23, 2006 11:20 AM

Can anyone point me to some good Kaylee/Inara slash?