How Do You handle Death?

POSTED BY: RiveR6213
UPDATED: Sunday, January 18, 2009 19:09
VIEWED: 23898
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BROOKLYNBROWNCOAT

Saturday, June 24, 2006 4:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I don't know what all the drama's about regarding death. I've lost friends through suicide and natural causes. I've watched my friends go through the death of their parents and let me tell you; they were all over the place grieving, and getting all deep with thoughts and stuff. I'll never understand it.

Death for me means that this stupid madness called life is over, but some people take it in different ways. So, are you the type that goes completely to pieces when death comes a calling, or are you the cool, collect type that understands the cycle of this stupid life and realize that life equals loss?

River

I deal with death like i deal with life- in a drug induced haze constantly altering between the mania and derpessive parts.

all men die, not all men really live

AGATSU

Saturday, June 24, 2006 4:18 PM

That's not dealing with either one, that's running away from it. Should be quite obvious to someone with an IQ of 185+.
It's not "living", either. I was more or less constantly stoned for weeks - months, even - until 10 days ago, when I just quit and started dealing with things. Started LIVING again.
Death will take care of itself.

Proud member of the FFF.net Event Team
The Serenity Summer Campaign is on, baby - prepare to kick some serious pigu!
September 30th is Serenity 'Versary! Be there or be a purple-belted poop-head. (<- not the official slogan.)
I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

BROOKLYNBROWNCOAT

Saturday, June 24, 2006 4:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Agatsu:
That's not dealing with either one, that's running away from it. Should be quite obvious to someone with an IQ of 185+.
It's not "living", either. I was more or less constantly stoned for weeks - months, even - until 10 days ago, when I just quit and started dealing with things. Started LIVING again.
Death will take care of itself.

Proud member of the FFF.net Event Team
The Serenity Summer Campaign is on, baby - prepare to kick some serious pigu!
September 30th is Serenity 'Versary! Be there or be a purple-belted poop-head. (<- not the official slogan.)
I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

That's disgusting!!!

AGATSU

Saturday, June 24, 2006 4:26 PM

That's your opinion. To each their own.

Proud member of the FFF.net Event Team
The Serenity Summer Campaign is on, baby - prepare to kick some serious pigu!
September 30th is Serenity 'Versary! Be there or be a purple-belted poop-head. (<- not the official slogan.)
I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Saturday, June 24, 2006 4:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Agatsu:
Death will take care of itself.

I think that that is exactly what most people dislike about death.

AGATSU

Saturday, June 24, 2006 4:46 PM

Yeah well, but why worry about something you have no influence over anyways when you can rather cherish life until the two meet?

Proud member of the FFF.net Event Team
The Serenity Summer Campaign is on, baby - prepare to kick some serious pigu!
September 30th is Serenity 'Versary! Be there or be a purple-belted poop-head. (<- not the official slogan.)
I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Saturday, June 24, 2006 4:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Agatsu:
Yeah well, but why worry about something you have no influence over anyways when you can rather cherish life until the two meet?

No idea, you'd have to ask someone else.

RIVER6213

Saturday, June 24, 2006 5:01 PM

I can't wait to see what my natural death's gonna be. I'm betting on a heart attack or a stroke, but the way my luck's been all my life, I'm gonna get hit by a thoughtless person who is too busy talking on a cell phone, while driving a car to see me as I start to walk across the street. I hope it’s quick.

Who the hell revived this thread? I thought it was all done...oh well. Death, my favorite subject. It’s funny though. I've come all this way in life and death is the only thing I really think about 24/7...really funny.

Is it possible to really be done with life? I mean life is like going to an amusement park. You've rode all the rides, you ate all the food, you went to all the shows, you drank all the wine, you watched all the people, and now there’s really nothing left to do. I mean you can ride all the rides again, but it’s not the same. You can go to another amusement park, but it’s just the same as the last one.

All the food tastes the same. A sunny day to me is still like looking at 5,000 shades of gray. There is nothing that people can do at this point that would surprise me. I could get on a plane right now and go to another part of the world and I would still find the same thing regardless if the country I went to was different in visual appearance, or rich or poor. People are people no matter where you go.

People need food, clothing, social life, status, love, wars, hate, sex, work, beliefs, groups, hobbies, interests...etc. No matter where you go in one form or another you find the same thing so why bother? It’s all so predictable and pointless. I'm totally done with this thing called life, and now I'm just waiting around to die seeing that I can't off myself. I have to wait for Mr. Death to choose my method of death, and Mr. Death is taking his sweet time, which is annoying. It’s like waiting at a bus stop for a bus that will never arrive.

I will to this day shall never understand why people place so much value on life. Life is such a thorny affair that's best avoided. And I know, I know!!! Life is what you make it. True. I've made a good life based on the expectations of the society that I currently live in, but in my opinion, life sucks and is meaningless. I was better off where I was before I was born...wherever that was.

How does one handle death? I am envious of the dead and the dying. At least they know that the suffering of life is over, but I feel sorry for the ones who still believe that life is this special thing because then death is a terrible thing for them....thank god I'm not one of them.

River

MINIME

Sunday, June 25, 2006 9:40 AM

Hi River,
My fault, I revived the thread, I came across it, and couldn't leave the last poster as being the news of a recent death.
I have to say, I'm intrigued by the conversation. Last year I spent 6 months working in outback Papua New Guinea in a hospital, and while I was there I watched a lot of people die. Some old, some young (10 days), some could have been helped in 'first world' countries, some probably not...
That sounds a little like I was sitting back observing disinterestedly as people died - not true. I was there to try and stop that from happening...
So, while I very much personally relate to how you feel - I currently have several doctors and friends trying to convince me that I have clinical depression (part of the price I pay for having doctors as friends) - and have spent inordinate amounts of my own time contemplating death, for me, death is still, generally, the enemy.

I realise this may not at all address your situation - just my own reflection on reading this post and having visited a friend who is into his 12th month of post-traumatic stress disorder after 30 years of life as a cop - policeman, for non-Aussies - seeing horrible car accidents and shootings etc.

RIVER6213

Sunday, June 25, 2006 10:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by minime:
Hi River,
My fault, I revived the thread, I came across it, and couldn't leave the last poster as being the news of a recent death.
I have to say, I'm intrigued by the conversation. Last year I spent 6 months working in outback Papua New Guinea in a hospital, and while I was there I watched a lot of people die. Some old, some young (10 days), some could have been helped in 'first world' countries, some probably not...
That sounds a little like I was sitting back observing disinterestedly as people died - not true. I was there to try and stop that from happening...
So, while I very much personally relate to how you feel - I currently have several doctors and friends trying to convince me that I have clinical depression (part of the price I pay for having doctors as friends) - and have spent inordinate amounts of my own time contemplating death, for me, death is still, generally, the enemy.

I realise this may not at all address your situation - just my own reflection on reading this post and having visited a friend who is into his 12th month of post-traumatic stress disorder after 30 years of life as a cop - policeman, for non-Aussies - seeing horrible car accidents and shootings etc.

Good to know someone here sees the picture for what it is. This is not about me...not about me in any way. I'm not depressed, I'm just sick of life. Nothing new, nor nothing special here. I have a few doctors as friends and I suggest you steer clear of them. They mean well, but they can be a problem. Thank god for my security clearance, or I would have been locked up a long time ago, and locked up I should be.

Sorry you had to see a bunch of old people and kids die. Good job on trying to stop it. I've seen enough children die in my time and it really puts a zap on your head. My problem is that I could never distance myself from the suffering of another. I have this amazing ability...call it a curse, to to be there when someone suffers. I take it all in. I can't block it...never could, and I hold it all in because there is no other place it can go.

In the Peace Corp I can't tell you how many times a child died in my arms. In certain parts of the world, life is cheap, and humans are expendable. You can't go through all of that and not have something taken away from your soul. You paid a price and you will continue paying that price for the rest of your life. Whoops, I think I went too far in explaining. Sorry.

I'm glad that death is still your enemy. You sound like you still have some life in you which is a good thing so I've heard. Tip. Keep a bunch of people who love you around you. Stay involved in human activity. Never spend too much time alone, and for god sakes don't drink and write.

Look to the dead to teach you survival.

River

GENETRIX

Sunday, June 25, 2006 10:55 AM

To me, death is just another part of life. I believe that whatever's after death will be another form of life, so I'm not really worried. I miss people that die, and I grieve, but it isn't like I'll never see them again. I believe we'll all be together in the end. Grieving, though important and essential, is also rather selfish, if you think about it. What I try to do in my life is be happy for the people that I do know, and for the people that I knew but aren't here anymore, and it feels good. I like the thought of being happy for the person that has passed, not because life is horrible, because I believe life is whatever you want it to be, but because they've gone on to another place; they've begun another part of life somewhere else, and we have to respect that.

AGATSU

Sunday, June 25, 2006 11:16 AM

I guess that's why people say "I'm sorry about your loss" instead of "I'm sorry for the person that died.".
No matter what you believe, the deceased either just cease to exist and therefore have no worries, or they're in heaven or whatever, or being reborn.
Neither is really bad for the dead, is it?
It's the having to live without the person that sucks. Which is why I condemn suicide, because it's selfish and causes a lot of suffering to a lot of people, just because one person didn't want to "suffer" anymore. Suicide is a "Fuck you!" to everyone who cares about you. So don't any of you do that or I'ma have to kick your ass.

Proud member of the FFF.net Event Team
The Serenity Summer Campaign is on, baby - prepare to kick some serious pigu!
September 30th is Serenity 'Versary! Be there or be a purple-belted poop-head. (<- not the official slogan.)
I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

GENETRIX

Sunday, June 25, 2006 11:28 AM

I kinda like the thought of Death just being Death so that you learn to get over it, to show the world what kind of person you are, know what I mean? [ramble ramble ramble]

Like, you know, the whole idea that when you're hungry, but you have to go somewhere, do you stick as much food in your mouth as you can whilst flying out the door (i.e. live to the fullest and most dangerous), eat like you would normally, so you don't choke (i.e. living life cautiously but still enjoying what you have), or maybe you just don't eat at all, because you wouldn't be able to finish it anyway, so why start? (i.e. give up on yourself and those around you). There are probably many different other ways to eat as well... But I'm being general.

Why did I start talking about that?

...What month is it?

RIVER6213

Sunday, June 25, 2006 11:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Agatsu:
I guess that's why people say "I'm sorry about your loss" instead of "I'm sorry for the person that died.".
No matter what you believe, the deceased either just cease to exist and therefore have no worries, or they're in heaven or whatever, or being reborn.
Neither is really bad for the dead, is it?
It's the having to live without the person that sucks. Which is why I condemn suicide, because it's selfish and causes a lot of suffering to a lot of people, just because one person didn't want to "suffer" anymore. Suicide is a "Fuck you!" to everyone who cares about you. So don't any of you do that or I'ma have to kick your ass.

Proud member of the FFF.net Event Team
The Serenity Summer Campaign is on, baby - prepare to kick some serious pigu!
September 30th is Serenity 'Versary! Be there or be a purple-belted poop-head. (<- not the official slogan.)
I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

I admire people who complete a successful suicide. Those mentioned people had what it took to go through and complete their self termination. I don't see it as an act of cowardness, nor do I see it as an act of weakness. I really don't see it as selfishness either.

I'm not saying that what they did was wrong. It was right for themselves. I doubt that any person wanting to kill themselves is saying "fuck you" to all the people out there. I don't think that they are thinking that when the moment comes. I BET you they are thinking about how they themselves have failed themselves. How they failed in being able to cope with the madness of this life. How they are ashamed that they could not adapt.

The hardest part about being alive is being able to live here on earth. I mean think about it. Every day that I live I think about dying. Everyday. There is nothing about this reality that brings pleaseure, or satisfaction to me. I'm done here. Whatever mission I was sent here for is done. I want to go home wherever that is.

When you think about it human life is boring and predictable. Sure there are the few out there that are born with a destiny that affects many people, but the rest of us are here to pay or bills, pay the rent, go to school, go to work, have children, put them the school, watch movies, buy food...etc. Predictable. What's the point?

And to the people who knows someone who has killed themselves...don't make a big, hairy, thing out of yourself talking about how they were "selfish" You didnt take them seriously in their pain. You never really listened to them...not ever. If you did, and if they felt heard, they wouldnt have killed themselves so quickly if they knew it would hurt you so much. You would have given them a reason to live...just by listening, but most humans are stupid so I say bring the suicides on.

A lot of people don't get that.

River

RIVER6213

Sunday, June 25, 2006 11:40 AM

Double post...sorry.

River

GENETRIX

Sunday, June 25, 2006 11:55 AM

Not all suicidal people are the same... You can't give them all the benefit of the doubt. I understand, for instance, people knowing they need to die (if they're on life support, or maybe if they're saving someone they love in the process of dying themselves, or like when

Select to view spoiler:

Boone let himself die

in Lost--I'm still sad about that!) but suicides can be selfish, for the simple fact that there is nothing in the world that can be done with only one intention. Or at least, I can't think of anything. Anything can be done with the intention of being selfish, so therefore, some people, at least, have killed themselves for their own benefits.

RIVER6213

Sunday, June 25, 2006 12:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Genetrix:
Not all suicidal people are the same... You can't give them all the benefit of the doubt. I understand, for instance, people knowing they need to die (if they're on life support, or maybe if they're saving someone they love in the process of dying themselves, or like when
Select to view spoiler:
Boone let himself die
in Lost--I'm still sad about that!) but suicides can be selfish, for the simple fact that there is nothing in the world that can be done with only one intention. Or at least, I can't think of anything. Anything can be done with the intention of being selfish, so therefore, some people, at least, have killed themselves for their own benefits.

Bruce let himeself die
Tom Let Himself Die
Karma let herself die
Sandra let herself die
Susan let herself die
Rick let himself die
Jason let himself die
Mark let himself die
Mario let himself die
Jessica let herself die because she was stupid and I MEAN stupid

These are all the friends that I have lost through suicide. All of them, and they are the lucky ones except for Jessica. She was too weird to even be alive and the fact that she made it so far was just plain weird. The reason I go on is because I carry all of their stuff with me.

River

AGATSU

Sunday, June 25, 2006 12:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

I admire people who complete a successful suicide. Those mentioned people had what it took to go through and complete their self termination. I don't see it as an act of cowardness, nor do I see it as an act of weakness. I really don't see it as selfhisness either.

I'm not saying that what they did was wrong. It was right for themselves. I doubt that any person wanting to kill themselves is saying "fuck you" to all the people out there. I don't think that they are thinking that when the moment comes. I BET you they are thinking about how they failed themselves. How they failed in being able to cope with the madness of this life. How they are ashamed that they could not adapt.

The hardest part about being alive is being able to live here on earth. I mean think about it. Every day that I live I think about dying. Everyday. There is nothing about this reality that brings pleaseure, or satisfaction to me. I'm done here. Whatever mission I was sent here for is done. I want to go home wherever that is.

When you think about it human life is boring and predictable. Sure there are the few out there that are born with a destiny that affects many people, but the rest of us are here to pay or bills, pay the rent, go to school, go to work, have children, put them the school, watch movies, buy food...etc. Predictable. What's the point?

And to the people who knows someone who has killed themselves...don't make a big, hairy, thing out of yourself talking about how they were "selfish" You didnt take them seriously in their pain. You never really listrened to them...not ever. If you did, and if they felt heard, they wouldnt have killed themselves so quickly if they knew it would hurt you so much. You would have given them a reason to live...just by listening, but most humans are stupid so I say bring the suicides on.

River

A lot of people don't get that.

Okay, here's a little story for you...
When I met one of my now best friends, it was shortly after her best friend was found by her parents, hanging from the ceiling. The girl who commited suicide had spent the night before with my friend, and there were NO INDICATIONS WHATSOEVER that she was going to kill herself, and my friend is a sensitive person, she should have picked up SOMETHING.
Or are you saying if you give people subtle hints and they don't figure out you're going to kill yourself, it's THOSE people's fault? Lemme tell you that my friend grieves and addresses reproaches to herself for not seeing it coming (and there really was no way) to this very day (it happened about 15 years ago), and her parents have led an empty, joy-less zombie-like life since then.
So here's where the selfishness comes in. If you're contemplating suicide you're so full of yourself that you fail to see the people who love you, and how your decision is going to affect the rest of their whole lifes.
As far as I see it, there's 2 reasons to want to die. One is overwhelming self-pity, and the other is "tiredness of life". The first one is a selfish reason for suicide, the second a stupid one.
I used to be quite depressed for a long time, and constantly stoned, but all it took was me falling in love to have a look at my life, go "WTF?!", quit smoking weed and get my life sorted out. Now I feel invincible, and full of energy, and my friends are going wild because they like my change so much. I don't even know if the girl fell in love with me as well yet, but even if not, the sensation of falling in love was like an adrenaline shot to the heart. Even if we don't get together, she showed me that there indeed are things worth living for, and most of all, PEOPLE worth living for.

Besides, EVERYONE affects EVERYONE. Life is interaction.

Proud member of the FFF.net Event Team
The Serenity Summer Campaign is on, baby - prepare to kick some serious pigu!
September 30th is Serenity 'Versary! Be there or be a purple-belted poop-head. (<- not the offici

RIVER6213

Sunday, June 25, 2006 12:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Agatsu:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

I admire people who complete a successful suicide. Those mentioned people had what it took to go through and complete their self termination. I don't see it as an act of cowardness, nor do I see it as an act of weakness. I really don't see it as selfhisness either.

I'm not saying that what they did was wrong. It was right for themselves. I doubt that any person wanting to kill themselves is saying "fuck you" to all the people out there. I don't think that they are thinking that when the moment comes. I BET you they are thinking about how they failed themselves. How they failed in being able to cope with the madness of this life. How they are ashamed that they could not adapt.

The hardest part about being alive is being able to live here on earth. I mean think about it. Every day that I live I think about dying. Everyday. There is nothing about this reality that brings pleaseure, or satisfaction to me. I'm done here. Whatever mission I was sent here for is done. I want to go home wherever that is.

When you think about it human life is boring and predictable. Sure there are the few out there that are born with a destiny that affects many people, but the rest of us are here to pay or bills, pay the rent, go to school, go to work, have children, put them the school, watch movies, buy food...etc. Predictable. What's the point?

And to the people who knows someone who has killed themselves...don't make a big, hairy, thing out of yourself talking about how they were "selfish" You didnt take them seriously in their pain. You never really listrened to them...not ever. If you did, and if they felt heard, they wouldnt have killed themselves so quickly if they knew it would hurt you so much. You would have given them a reason to live...just by listening, but most humans are stupid so I say bring the suicides on.

River

A lot of people don't get that.

Okay, here's a little story for you...
When I met one of my now best friends, it was shortly after her best friend was found by her parents, hanging from the ceiling. The girl who commited suicide had spent the night before with my friend, and there were NO INDICATIONS WHATSOEVER that she was going to kill herself, and my friend is a sensitive person, she should have picked up SOMETHING.
Or are you saying if you give people subtle hints and they don't figure out you're going to kill yourself, it's THOSE people's fault? Lemme tell you that my friend grieves and addresses reproaches to herself for not seeing it coming (and there really was no way) to this very day (it happened about 15 years ago), and her parents have led an empty, joy-less zombie-like life since then.
So here's where the selfishness comes in. If you're contemplating suicide you're so full of yourself that you fail to see the people who love you, and how your decision is going to affect the rest of their whole lifes.
As far as I see it, there's 2 reasons to want to die. One is overwhelming self-pity, and the other is "tiredness of life". The first one is a selfish reason for suicide, the second a stupid one.
I used to be quite depressed for a long time, and constantly stoned, but all it took was me falling in love to have a look at my life, go "WTF?!", quit smoking weed and get my life sorted out. Now I feel invincible, and full of energy, and my friends are going wild because they like my change so much. I don't even know if the girl fell in love with me as well yet, but even if not, the sensation of falling in love was like an adrenaline shot to the heart. Even if we don't get together, she showed me that there indeed are things worth living for, and most of all, PEOPLE worth living for.

Besides, EVERYONE affects EVERYONE. Life is interaction.

Proud member of the FFF.net Event Team
The Serenity Summer Campaign is on, baby - prepare to kick some serious pigu!
September 30th is Serenity 'Versary! Be there or be a pur

AGATSU

Sunday, June 25, 2006 12:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Bruce let himeself die
Tom Let Himself Die
Karma let herself die
Sandra let herself die
Susan let herself die
Rick let himself die
Jason let himself die
Mark let himself die
Mario let himself die
Jessica let herself die because she was stupid and I MEAN stupid

These are all the friends that I have lost through suicide. All of them, and they are the lucky ones except for Jessica. She was too weird to even be alive and the fact that she made it so far was just plain weird. The reason I go on is because I carry all of their stuff with me.

River

That's a lot of people, what the hell is going on over there?
So you wanna be on that list of "lucky" people as well? That just might inspire other friends of yours to do the same, and continue that exponential chain reaction of suffering. Be stronger, and smarter than your dead friends - for your friends that are still alive. I hope one day you'll be happy (and still alive), look back at those dark times and go "WTF was I thinking? I would have missed all of this!". I really do.

Proud member of the FFF.net Event Team
The Serenity Summer Campaign is on, baby - prepare to kick some serious pigu!
September 30th is Serenity 'Versary! Be there or be a purple-belted poop-head. (<- not the official slogan.)
I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

RIVER6213

Sunday, June 25, 2006 1:08 PM

NO. There will never be that one day that I am happy. I can accept this. I don't like it but that day will never happen.

I figured it out the other day. My mistake in life was assuming that I was here to be happy. I'm not here to be happy or comfortable. I here to learn humility, and its clear to all involved that, that's not going over too well. I'm here to suffer to put it plainly.

If I say to you that I am happy, then I must be drugged or on my way to jump off a bridge.

All of my friends commiting suicide over the years, well, they had their reasons. We were a good group. Too bad it ended badly for most of us. I am the last survivor of my group. I was the strongest. I knew that life was hell and they didnt.

River

AGATSU

Sunday, June 25, 2006 1:23 PM

So, were you drugged or on your way to jumping off a bridge when you told us a few weeks ago about how fun that date was? Didn't that give you hope that there might be a few diamonds hidden in this big pile of shit? You just have to keep looking for those instead of saying "It's all just shit, anyways", because the latter is most likely gonna turn out to be a self-fullfilling prophecy.

Proud member of the FFF.net Event Team
The Serenity Summer Campaign is on, baby - prepare to kick some serious pigu!
September 30th is Serenity 'Versary! Be there or be a purple-belted poop-head. (<- not the official slogan.)
I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

22CLAWS

Sunday, June 25, 2006 3:33 PM

Check out Death: The High Cost of Living by Neil Gaiman.

"Two cents. That's what a life is worth."
22

CHRISTHECYNIC

Sunday, June 25, 2006 3:37 PM

River I'm confused.

You say that they are the lucky ones and you admire the ones who pull it off, which they obviously did.

Then you say they're weaker than you. (Unless there is some other definition of "strongest" I'm unaware of.)

How to those two things go together, they had the will and ability to get themselves into a position you consider better. It doesn't strike me as weak.

So here's where I'm confused, do you consider suicide a sign of weakenss or not? If you do why do you admire the weak?

-
--
-

The other thing I want to say is more on topic.

It's about how people look at suicide, and that's part of dealing with death.

You said:
"I really don't see it as selfishness either.

... It was right for themselves. I doubt that any person wanting to kill themselves is saying "fuck you" to all the people out there. I don't think that they are thinking that when the moment comes. I BET you they are thinking about how they themselves have failed themselves. How they failed in being able to cope with the madness of this life. How they are ashamed that they could not adapt."

And the second paragraph you wrote is exactly why people consider it selfish. The people are doing what is right for themselves, thinking about themselves, and not about others. They aren't thinking about the fact that, whether intended or not, they are saying, "I'm more important than everyone else and I don't care about how much pain I'm going to cause everyone I know because I want to do this and don't give a damn about all of you," which does, kind of, translate to, "Fuck you."

The reason that I bring this up is that the reasons you say it is not selfish are the same reasons others say it is. I think that the reason people deal with death in so many diferent ways is that even when start with exactly the same ideas about it the reach very different conclusions.

Suicide is not the only thing like this. What people may look at as a good death others may look at as horrible. What seems to some as peaceful long life seems like uselessly wasting away to others. How one deals with death all rests upon how one looks at it.

CYBERSNARK

Sunday, June 25, 2006 3:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
My mistake in life was assuming that I was here to be happy. I'm not here to be happy or comfortable.

Of course not, no-one is. You're here to make others happy and comfortable.

Everyone of us is broken, and there's not a one who can fix themselves. But you can help fix others, and just maybe, in the process, you'll find someone who can fix you.

(I learned that from InuYasha.

)

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

DUKKATI

Sunday, June 25, 2006 5:26 PM

Death is a new beginning.

One way or the other.

What you choose before death is what you will have after death.

Its all very simple. Just dont make it harder than it really is.

Confusion is the root of fear.

RIVER6213

Sunday, June 25, 2006 8:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Agatsu:
So, were you drugged or on your way to jumping off a bridge when you told us a few weeks ago about how fun that date was? Didn't that give you hope that there might be a few diamonds hidden in this big pile of shit?

Actually yes, I was drugged when I went out on that date. I was taking perscription medication that made me feel very unGlenda like. I was feeling unusally giddy; I was not myself that day. Well I'm off that crap, and I'm now back to my old, dark self. And to make it worse I have to check in everyday with a therapist in person or by phone...that's a court order, so I have to make nice everyday to convince certain people not to take away my rights.

Anyway. I must admit that going out was pleasent enough, but it wasnt for me, it was for another person. Also, I spent my life looking for the good out there and you know what? There isnt any.

I handle death with apathy. I doubt that I will ever feel for anyone's loss ever again. On one hand this is a good thing, on another hand its really sad that all my humanity is gone....that point is not lost on me.

I feel really sorry for the people who do break down over the death of others.

I just woke up and need some coffee. I had the strangest dream about being chased by a musical...

River

RIVER6213

Sunday, June 25, 2006 9:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
River I'm confused.

You say that they are the lucky ones and you admire the ones who pull it off, which they obviously did.

Then you say they're weaker than you. (Unless there is some other definition of "strongest" I'm unaware of.)

How to those two things go together, they had the will and ability to get themselves into a position you consider better. It doesn't strike me as weak.

So here's where I'm confused, do you consider suicide a sign of weakenss or not? If you do why do you admire the weak?

-
--
-

The other thing I want to say is more on topic.

It's about how people look at suicide, and that's part of dealing with death.

You said:
"I really don't see it as selfishness either.

... It was right for themselves. I doubt that any person wanting to kill themselves is saying "fuck you" to all the people out there. I don't think that they are thinking that when the moment comes. I BET you they are thinking about how they themselves have failed themselves. How they failed in being able to cope with the madness of this life. How they are ashamed that they could not adapt."

And the second paragraph you wrote is exactly why people consider it selfish. The people are doing what is right for themselves, thinking about themselves, and not about others. They aren't thinking about the fact that, whether intended or not, they are saying, "I'm more important than everyone else and I don't care about how much pain I'm going to cause everyone I know because I want to do this and don't give a damn about all of you," which does, kind of, translate to, "Fuck you."

The reason that I bring this up is that the reasons you say it is not selfish are the same reasons others say it is. I think that the reason people deal with death in so many diferent ways is that even when start with exactly the same ideas about it the reach very different conclusions.

Suicide is not the only thing like this. What people may look at as a good death others may look at as horrible. What seems to some as peaceful long life seems like uselessly wasting away to others. How one deals with death all rests upon how one looks at it.

What can I say Mr. Christhecynic? How one handles death depends on what side of the plaza they are viewing it from.

I'm still trying to wake up and this coffee isnt cutting it. I need some expresso so I can think about my next number in the Musical.

River

RIVER6213

Sunday, June 25, 2006 9:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
My mistake in life was assuming that I was here to be happy. I'm not here to be happy or comfortable.
Of course not, no-one is. You're here to make others happy and comfortable.

Everyone of us is broken, and there's not a one who can fix themselves. But you can help fix others, and just maybe, in the process, you'll find someone who can fix you.

(I learned that from InuYasha. )

Some people are unfixable and I'm one of them. A broken toy I am...that big disappointment a child experiences when they open up a Christmas present to find that their new toy that they dreamt about is broken.

My days of trying to fix other people are over. I don't have that sort of power anymore. How is it possible to help others when you can't help yourself?

Its amazing how many ways people look at and deal with death.

River

RIVER6213

Sunday, June 25, 2006 9:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Agatsu:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Bruce let himeself die
Tom Let Himself Die
Karma let herself die
Sandra let herself die
Susan let herself die
Rick let himself die
Jason let himself die
Mark let himself die
Mario let himself die
Jessica let herself die because she was stupid and I MEAN stupid

These are all the friends that I have lost through suicide. All of them, and they are the lucky ones except for Jessica. She was too weird to even be alive and the fact that she made it so far was just plain weird. The reason I go on is because I carry all of their stuff with me.

River

That's a lot of people, what the hell is going on over there?

I think Seattle has the highest suicide rate in the nation. Must be the 5,000 shades of gray that does it and the fact that it rains a lot here.

River

CHRISTHECYNIC

Sunday, June 25, 2006 10:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
What can I say Mr. Christhecynic?

You don't need to say anything, it is nice to know that you are reading though.

-

[Added]

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
How is it possible to help others when you can't help yourself?

This isn't an answer to your question, but it is proof that there is an answer.

It has been my experiance that those best at helping others are incapable of helping themselves.

-

I just hope you find a way to do one or the other, both might be too much to ask.

WALKER04

Sunday, June 25, 2006 10:39 PM

River 6213

How do I handle death? Well, recently my best friend of 34 years died and after an oops, bad drug reaction from something my doctor prescribed, I watched Firefly for 2 weeks solid. It was my first contact with the 'Verse. The problem with death is not for those who die, but for those of us left behind.

What I got from Firefly was this: when you lose everything of value you have one of two choices, you can either lay down and die, or keep going. If you make the choice to keep going, eventually the pain stops being a palpable thing and you find that each day isn't an extreme effort. Hopefully, at some point it becomes worth living again and there are things to enjoy and care about.

Blocking all feelings will protect you from being hurt but it also blocks the good stuff, and life does have good things: art; animals; and people to love and care about. While I've spent the last 6 months licking my wounds over Scottie's death, the time has come to re-join the human race. I hope you find a reason too. Dragoncon is Labor Day weekend, there will be people you will want to meet. You might even enjoy yourself.

MINIME

Sunday, June 25, 2006 10:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Quote:
Originally posted by minime:
Hi River,
My fault, I revived the thread, I came across it, and couldn't leave the last poster as being the news of a recent death.
I have to say, I'm intrigued by the conversation. Last year I spent 6 months working in outback Papua New Guinea in a hospital, and while I was there I watched a lot of people die. Some old, some young (10 days), some could have been helped in 'first world' countries, some probably not...
That sounds a little like I was sitting back observing disinterestedly as people died - not true. I was there to try and stop that from happening...
So, while I very much personally relate to how you feel - I currently have several doctors and friends trying to convince me that I have clinical depression (part of the price I pay for having doctors as friends) - and have spent inordinate amounts of my own time contemplating death, for me, death is still, generally, the enemy.

I realise this may not at all address your situation - just my own reflection on reading this post and having visited a friend who is into his 12th month of post-traumatic stress disorder after 30 years of life as a cop - policeman, for non-Aussies - seeing horrible car accidents and shootings etc.

Good to know someone here sees the picture for what it is. This is not about me...not about me in any way. I'm not depressed, I'm just sick of life. Nothing new, nor nothing special here. I have a few doctors as friends and I suggest you steer clear of them. They mean well, but they can be a problem. Thank god for my security clearance, or I would have been locked up a long time ago, and locked up I should be.

Sorry you had to see a bunch of old people and kids die. Good job on trying to stop it. I've seen enough children die in my time and it really puts a zap on your head. My problem is that I could never distance myself from the suffering of another. I have this amazing ability...call it a curse, to to be there when someone suffers. I take it all in. I can't block it...never could, and I hold it all in because there is no other place it can go.

In the Peace Corp I can't tell you how many times a child died in my arms. In certain parts of the world, life is cheap, and humans are expendable. You can't go through all of that and not have something taken away from your soul. You paid a price and you will continue paying that price for the rest of your life. Whoops, I think I went too far in explaining. Sorry.

I'm glad that death is still your enemy. You sound like you still have some life in you which is a good thing so I've heard. Tip. Keep a bunch of people who love you around you. Stay involved in human activity. Never spend too much time alone, and for god sakes don't drink and write.

Look to the dead to teach you survival.

River

Didn't mean to imply I thought you were depressed, just that some people like slapping the label.

Thanks for the advice... you are correct about the price you pay for trying to be there... but if I had to make the same choice over, I'd do it again - hell, I'm in the process of signing on to do the same kind of work again.

In the meantime, i hope you find something that sparks your interest in life again. No idea what it could be, but I hope you find it.

RIVER6213

Monday, June 26, 2006 8:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by minime:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Quote:
Originally posted by minime:
Hi River,
My fault, I revived the thread, I came across it, and couldn't leave the last poster as being the news of a recent death.
I have to say, I'm intrigued by the conversation. Last year I spent 6 months working in outback Papua New Guinea in a hospital, and while I was there I watched a lot of people die. Some old, some young (10 days), some could have been helped in 'first world' countries, some probably not...
That sounds a little like I was sitting back observing disinterestedly as people died - not true. I was there to try and stop that from happening...
So, while I very much personally relate to how you feel - I currently have several doctors and friends trying to convince me that I have clinical depression (part of the price I pay for having doctors as friends) - and have spent inordinate amounts of my own time contemplating death, for me, death is still, generally, the enemy.

I realise this may not at all address your situation - just my own reflection on reading this post and having visited a friend who is into his 12th month of post-traumatic stress disorder after 30 years of life as a cop - policeman, for non-Aussies - seeing horrible car accidents and shootings etc.

Good to know someone here sees the picture for what it is. This is not about me...not about me in any way. I'm not depressed, I'm just sick of life. Nothing new, nor nothing special here. I have a few doctors as friends and I suggest you steer clear of them. They mean well, but they can be a problem. Thank god for my security clearance, or I would have been locked up a long time ago, and locked up I should be.

Sorry you had to see a bunch of old people and kids die. Good job on trying to stop it. I've seen enough children die in my time and it really puts a zap on your head. My problem is that I could never distance myself from the suffering of another. I have this amazing ability...call it a curse, to to be there when someone suffers. I take it all in. I can't block it...never could, and I hold it all in because there is no other place it can go.

In the Peace Corp I can't tell you how many times a child died in my arms. In certain parts of the world, life is cheap, and humans are expendable. You can't go through all of that and not have something taken away from your soul. You paid a price and you will continue paying that price for the rest of your life. Whoops, I think I went too far in explaining. Sorry.

I'm glad that death is still your enemy. You sound like you still have some life in you which is a good thing so I've heard. Tip. Keep a bunch of people who love you around you. Stay involved in human activity. Never spend too much time alone, and for god sakes don't drink and write.

Look to the dead to teach you survival.

River

Didn't mean to imply I thought you were depressed, just that some people like slapping the label.

Thanks for the advice... you are correct about the price you pay for trying to be there... but if I had to make the same choice over, I'd do it again - hell, I'm in the process of signing on to do the same kind of work again.

In the meantime, i hope you find something that sparks your interest in life again. No idea what it could be, but I hope you find it.

I've thought about going back and doing that, from time to time, but then I toss the thought out of my mind.

What would spark my interest up a little if they bring back FF or at least another movie, but besides that, I would have to say that the fun part of life is over and Elvis has left the room.

I'm thinking about finding another forum to hang out on. I'm tired of being River6213. I know, I know!!! Don't let the door hit me on the way out.

So tired... *yawn*

River

AGATSU

Monday, June 26, 2006 9:37 AM

WTF? You don't like us anymore?
Come on, it's fun and warm here, especially now, with all the positive vibes from S-Day and all! You could try picking up some of those and join the party!

The Serenity Summer Campaign is on, baby - prepare to kick some serious pigu!
September 30th is Serenity 'Versary! Be there or be a purple-belted poop-head. (<- not the official slogan.)
I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

MINIME

Monday, June 26, 2006 10:00 AM

River,
Sorry you're tired of being River - we're not tired of you being you! and we will miss you if you choose to leave. Either way - we're glad to have had your company.
Minime

BRITCHICK

Monday, June 26, 2006 10:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

I'm thinking about finding another forum to hang out on. I'm tired of being River6213. I know, I know!!! Don't let the door hit me on the way out.

So tired... *yawn*

River

Or perhaps you are starting to care or feel cared about, and that doesn't fit in with your view of yourself?

Don't leave. "Here" is a good, no-pressure place to be. Post if you like, don't post if you don't.

Like fireflyfans.net?
Help keep the site running.. Why not donate?
see links on homepage

RIVER6213

Monday, June 26, 2006 10:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Agatsu:
WTF? You don't like us anymore?
Come on, it's fun and warm here, especially now, with all the positive vibes from S-Day and all! You could try picking up some of those and join the party!

It’s not about me not liking you; it’s about me being so negative. . I don't have anything good to say in any of my posts. Everything that I write down is dark and gloomy; not a shred of light in anything I share.

I was reading over all my posts today and everything and I mean everything I write is so anti-life, anti-fun, anti this and anti that, and it just seems so pointless. Why do I hang out on this forum when I don't really have anything of value to share? I start these ridiculous threads and then I gloom it up for everyone. I'm not a play nice and fit in sort of person even on the internet.

We are all here because we like FF, Buffy and Angel, and we also share the love of science fiction. I think I'm here to try to escape from myself, but it's clear that I brought me along for the ride. Maybe I should have titled this thread "How Do People Deal with Life?" But if I had, I would have found a way to gloom that topic up with my clearly damaged world view.

Yes, I need to find another forum. Maybe there's a Forum out there where everyone on it hates themselves and hates the world? I bet you anything if I found such a forum, I would gloom that one up also. It’s a sad day when people who are depressed and despise the world don't want to hang around you because you are such a downer.

You guys are all fine. You are all normal and get so excited about everything. I mean look at all those people in that series of Forsaken Threads! They get excited over all kinds of crazy things. I go in there and read some of that stuff and I start to dry-heave. It makes no sense at all, but I guess there’s something for everyone here at FFF.net.

So, I can handle death with no problems. Darkness doesn’t scare me. I don't care if I go to heaven or hell if I die. If some friends at work die, I don't care. If there is a car wreck, I don't slow down like I see many other people doing to check out the carnage. If I go to someone's funeral because I was invited. I go to keep up business relations and I eat up the food and drink the wine. Pure apathy in regards to other people. The ultimate in selfish behavior even though it doesn’t feel like I'm being selfish. There's no superiority feeling attached to this. This is just how I turned out. It wasn’t planned.

Have you ever tried this? Last year I spent some time inviting myself to other people's funerals. I would always just show up and people always assumed that I was a friend of the deceased. I did this about 15 or 20 times. I did it because I wanted to hear all those speeches people make about the deceased. What kind of person they were, and how they touched peoples lives. Interesting stuff to have to listen to when you aren’t emotionally attached to the deceased and friends. It was very educational.

Maybe you are all normal people who are really affected by death, and you cry, and you remember and draw strength from the memories of the deceased. You form good friendships, you go to ball games, you hang out with your friends, you love you parents and grandparents. You go to your jobs, you pay your bills and life is this really normal, exciting place. Everything is okay, so…nothing new here. You love you parents and grandparents. You celebrate Birthdays Christmas and all the other Holidays. You are shocked by some of the things you read about in the news and you say “I can’t believe X did that.”

Your lives are alien to me, and I don’t really feel like I’m missing something important. I don’t feel at all. There must be a place on the internet or out in the world where a person like me fits. My 1st thought is that there are plenty of people like me in psycho wards or prison, but I’m talking about somewhere not as unpleasant as those places.

I wonder how I would react to an 8 year old kid b

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:11 AM

Yeah, I read this whole thread. Again. I didn't post the first time. In fact, I didn't post for a while. A few times, I just got to busy to deal with it, and the tenor of banter got too vindictive and hostile, which is to say, counter-productive and boring. So, okay there's a lot here which I could respond to, but, instead, I'm just going to honor the subject of the post and respond as I didn't do initially when it was posted, even though I was actually around.

How do I deal with death.

I don't, I guess. My own experience is somewhat twisted, but not as horrific as some posted here.

When I was 11 years old, I was kicked out of school, my whole family was, hence the 5th grade eductation, if you don't count missing 3rd, and most of kindergarten.

That's when the disappearance of my friends started. They went in small clusters, vanishing, kids I had known who still visited, other home schoolers, each family moved away. My dad left us, my brother moved away, my best friends all gone, my last friend left was my cousin Jeffrey who died, and then I enter a period of self pitying lonliness. Not having the social skills to interact with my would be peers or any contacts, two years of really bitter depression. But I got out, made friends, took some college classes, learned to socialize, slowly, and painfully, it was rough. I was very desensitized somehow when friends started to die. A few from car crashes, and a couple from AIDS, mostly suicides. A pretty f^&ked up society, I figured I always had someone to blame. Then one day we were talking about my cousin Jeffrey, and his death, and someone mentioned it, and said "He committed suicide on your 15th birthday."

I had blocked it. Well and truly burried. Then suddenly the whole flood of memories came over me. Yeah, I know why and how, all the details. His life, which seemed to me, so much better than mine, he had a girlfriend, was in school, had a functional family, was in flight training to be a pilot even though he was just a year older. We had a lot in common, computers, hacking into videogames, programming, D&D, model rockets, etc. The whole of it had been blocked. My brain couldn't cope I guess.

Anyway I had to do some soul searching and self analysis. First off, I knew he intended to die. He had a passion for killing, he used to study murders, torture, he had a whole collection of weapons. I knew he meant to do it an succeed, it wasn't a pity play, it was revenge. His mother ruled that house with an iron fist, NO! was her favorite word, a little power play. So, nothing was allowed.

My self analysis was that my life had been so much worse than his, in my mind, that if his was forfeit, why was I alive? I think this haunted me.

Since then, I've had some close friends die. Yeah, I tend to blame people less, but I they just pass by me. Mike, my brother's best freind, but also one of my closest friends, he was right in between our ages, died in a drug-suicide. No one was sure, but he went missing, and we searched the woods, I didn't find his body. Someone did, He'd fallen or jumped off the 80 foot cliff that his house was built on top of.

This is going to be a longer story than it intended to be, so my apologies, but I guess Mike's death was the first one I had to deal with on a really personal level, and the people around me also dealt with. Mike's father had shot himself, in the house, when Mike and his brother were 10 and 12. Mike had also blocked that memory, and his brother had told him, earlier that night. So, we can only guess what effect that flashback had on Mike. I guess it took him like a wave, like it had with me. At any rate, Mike chose to deal by taking a very large amount of drugs and declaring that he was the second coming of Christ, and then jumping/falling off an 80 foot drop to his death.

His mother reacted the same way she had to her husbands suicide, which happened while she was out with another man, and she came home to find him, and the boys. She had set up a denial. In her world, everyone was completely independent and responsible

RIVER6213

Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:21 PM

You are a very wordy one Dreamtrove.
Your story is very interesting. It's very sad, and makes a person's guts (Mine) twist and turn just reading it. It appears that you have been on a dramatic, life's, journey. The fact that you are not on top of a roof with a sniper's rifle leads me to have some admiration for you. My experiences are pretty nasty, but my experiences appears to not hold a candle to yours. I do not know who I would be now if I had had your experiences.

You strike me as the sort of person that gives everything in your life a serious moment of real consideration, and don't allow things to pass you by without an opinion regarding it. I would have to say that you are a very strong person, but it also makes me wonder that your surviving so much in your life that you've might have become the person you currently don't want to be? I could be wrong, but mind wrenching experiences does have the nasty habit of changing who we are.

As far as death is concerned (Seeing that is what this thread is about) since I last posted on this forum I lost 2 more people that I knew very well. One of them I rather liked a lot, and the other I sort of hated, but had to deal with them all the time to the point where i got to know them. I would have to say that after all the people I have lost in my life I really don't, or no longer feel that I need to "handle death" because death is going to come to you, or your friends, and family whether you are ready for it of not; whether you can handle it or not. it's going to come, so I guess I don't handle death. I don't see any reason to handle it. People die and that's just how things go.

-River

DREAMTROVE

Sunday, January 18, 2009 7:09 PM

River

First, I wanted to thank you for a very thoughtful response, and a very thoughtful insightful thread.
[edit]I thought that my response revive this, but I see it was in "general" and so it got quickly burried, and I missed it. A lot of people having been looking for a place to talk without getting the intervening bagels. I thought hidden threads would work. Hmm. Food for thought. Hopefully jizz-free food.

Quote:
You are a very wordy one Dreamtrove.

Lol. So very true. It's part of my communication plan for the year, to work on this.

Quote:
Your story is very interesting. It's very sad, and makes a person's guts (Mine) twist and turn just reading it. It appears that you have been on a dramatic, life's, journey. The fact that you are not on top of a roof with a sniper's rifle leads me to have some admiration for you. My experiences are pretty nasty, but my experiences appears to not hold a candle to yours. I do not know who I would be now if I had had your experiences.

I just watched elvenlied, and if you aren't bothered by an excessive amount of violence and female nudity, it's a very good anime, dealing with the nature of killers, death. Frem brought it up, re: redemption, I'm not sure what it says about redemption. I guess the characters overall ability to forgive is powerful, believable, and startling, and also somewhat refreshing. The main male character has a similar experience with the mental block, and I think this may be the evolution of the mental block, to prevent it from altering you, until you have time to reflect.

Quote:
You strike me as the sort of person that gives everything in your life a serious moment of real consideration, and don't allow things to pass you by without an opinion regarding it. I would have to say that you are a very strong person, but it also makes me wonder that your surviving so much in your life that you've might have become the person you currently don't want to be? I could be wrong, but mind wrenching experiences does have the nasty habit of changing who we are.

I have to say, there were definitely moments in my life when I thought I would crack. I don't think there will be again. I've become very contemplative. I don't think this is necessarily faith based, but learning through contemplation, and perhaps envy of people more contemplative. The natural human tendency is probably to lash out at anything which threatens us, or to diminish us, marginalize us, etc.

On forum posts sometimes I voice strong opinions, but I generally do so to sway the tenor. Communication involving multiple humans is always on the verge of becoming the Titanic. I noticed fairly early on in life that there seems to be a critical level somewhere around 5, probably "family sized" under which people can communicate without degenerating into a feeding frenzy. Some people intentionally lob grenades into the frey just to watch the fireworks. I tend to try to be... not quite the guy with his hand up in front of the tank, that's too confrontational for me, I find confrontations tend to forge wars, but more to deflect away from self and mutually destructive arguments towards ones of substance.

Quote:
As far as death is concerned (Seeing that is what this thread is about) since I last posted on this forum I lost 2 more people that I knew very well. One of them I rather liked a lot, and the other I sort of hated, but had to deal with them all the time to the point where i got to know them. I would have to say that after all the people I have lost in my life I really don't, or no longer feel that I need to "handle death" because death is going to come to you, or your friends, and family whether you are ready for it of not; whether you can handle it or not. it's going to come, so I guess I don't handle death. I don't see any reason to handle it. People die and that's just how things go.

-River

Two recent events that have me not knowing how to feel:

1. A friend of mine died. He was one of my military friends, he was discharged, and died short

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