If you are a Browncoat and a Christian....sound-off....NO AGENDA...just curious.

POSTED BY: Stillshiny
UPDATED: Saturday, August 19, 2006 06:16
VIEWED: 15534
PAGE 1 of 1

STILLSHINY

Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:56 PM

This isn't an Us and Them or an Us vs Them thread. I'm just curious.

I find it cool how many Christians dig Joss' work. I think it's a credit to you to see beyond all the *flubotonam and enjoy the gift of Joss' storytelling.

*flubotonam I'm sure I spelled it wrong. but it's the word Joss uses to describe the mystical stuff

If the thread is inappropriate, Haken feel free to remove it, or move it to Real World.

So let me sound off first

Stillshiny - I am a born-again Christian and a Browncoat. Shiny Hallelujah!

"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion

Stillshiny's Shop - Original creator of the -isms series
http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=4728

http://www.myspace.com/robdhiii

DARKFLY

Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:18 PM

I'm a Christian and I think Firefly & Serenity are the best TV show & Movie ever,and I think it's good it raises questions on violence & moral & other things.And it also doesn't have many swear words which is a good thing but it doen't mean I can't tolerate swearing,come on most of us Christians(theirs a lot of us) have seen The Terminator,The Rock(over 100 swear words),etc.

------------------------------------------------------

Go to http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=19&t=22697 for more info!

Things are about to get interesting...Define interesting...Oh GOD oh GOD we're all going to die.

GRIZWALD

Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:27 PM

*raises hand*

Christian and Browncoat here, too.

___________________________________________________
* If you're a leaf on the wind
* If you aim to misbehave
* If they can't take the sky from you
* If you are going to the Special Hell
* If you like the taste of Mudder's Milk
* If you carry Serenity with you everywhere you go
then you are a Browncoat, and you're with family.

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

BETHERS0921

Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:35 PM

I'm a Christian Browncoat, as well. I used to be totally obsessed with Buffy and Angel, and now I'm totally obsessed with Firefly.

Apparently, I just can't get enough of Joss!

ZZETTA13

Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:52 PM

To begin my post I first want to say that whatever a person deems is true is their belief. I'm not posting to preach or try to change anyones idea of things.

Now do I believe in God? I do believe in a creator or some kind of creative source. A higher Power that started it all. If that's saying I believe in God. Then I do.

Even if I think back to the BIG BANG theory, I think well,what lit the fuse? I don't think that things just happened or that one day two chemicals got together and said "Hey lets unite and start life!" I just don't see it that way. Now as for disagreements. I respect anyones opinion ( I hope they respect mine) I'm not here to tell them they're wrong and I'm right or anything else. I'm willing to look at things from opposite angles. Even scientists don't believe that things just happen. They spend years tracing things out to find the source. If this lead to this then this....and so on.

Mankind will always search for the beginning. What will we find? I think we will find God,not just the end of a frayed string. But thats just me.Maybe we will only find out at the end of this life.

So the question, am I a Christian? Well I do believe in Christ. He is my brother. So that would be a yepper.

Now for another question. Do I live life as I should. Well, I'm working on getting better. Just hope I have the time to do it

Z

MAVOURNEEN

Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Stillshiny:

I find it cool how many Christians dig Joss' work.

This surprises me.

BTVS - Magical Arts / Witchcraft. Lesbianism. Vampirism.
Quote from alabamabaptist.org
John Andrew Murray, headmaster of St. Timothy’s-Hale School in Raleigh, N.C., warns on the Focus on the Family Web site that media influences like Harry Potter, “Sabrina, the Teenage Witch” and “Buffy, the Vampire Slayer” are causing a generation of children to be “desensitized to the occult.”

Angel - Vampirism / "being Undead". Demonic Posession. Witchcraft.
Firefly/Serenity - utter loss of Faith in God as the driving force in one's life.

Quote from Touchstonemag.com, a Christian Archive.
Neopagan Attitudes

Witches and neopagans themselves have found it impossible to agree on definitions of witchcraft and neopaganism, but nevertheless claim to intuitively recognize those who worship the way they do. Therefore, instead of trying to define these movements by their doctrines or practices, Alexander cites their common attitudes.

These attitudes begin with the rejection of established society and include:

• Rejection of Christian monotheism in favor of the animistic, polytheistic, or pantheistic powers believed to be available “for enlightenment and occult empowerment”;
• Rejection of the concept of sin and of the need for salvation;
• Rejection of accountability to any higher power in favor of “an ethic of self-will tempered by mysticism”; and
• Inclination to goddess or nature worship, feminism, and environmentalism.

Sounds vaguely whedonesque, no?

and...

Buffy’s end-times confrontation between the forces of good and evil, for example, comes from the biblical account of the cosmic conflict between God and Satan over the spiritual fate of humanity that culminates in the victory of Christ over Antichrist in John’s Apocalypse. But Whedon’s version lacks any implication that the conflict is between God and Satan, and the biblical themes of temptation, fall, judgment, and redemption that gave meaning to the conflict have disappeared.

Likewise, the vampirism, demons, and demon possession that Whedon portrays in Buffy lack the concern for the redemption of the individual souls of the vampirized and the possessed that had given a Christian significance to previous popular fictions from Dracula to The Exorcist.

*For the record, I'm not a born-again Christian, nor am I atheist, agnostic, or anything else. I believe what I believe.
Just surprised by the statement that Christians like Joss Whedon's work.

"Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?"

STILLSHINY

Thursday, August 10, 2006 4:09 PM

Not to hi-jack my own "sound-off" thread.

I think it's safe to say, most Christians who like Whedon's work, see beyond all that "stuff" that many people nit-pick apart.

For me....I appreciate the good storytelling & concepts of redemption & sacrifice, heroes & anti-heroes, people who just "do the right thing" and so on.

Joss is simply trying to tell a good....no.....a great story, and this is the Verse' he uses to tell it.

Now, back to my original thread.

Browncoat. Christian. Right here!

"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion

Stillshiny's Shop - Original creator of the -isms series
http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=4728

http://www.myspace.com/robdhiii

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN

Thursday, August 10, 2006 5:12 PM

You have another Christian browncoat here. I must admit that I'm not a very good one. I haven't been to church in a while and I need to find one but at least I know that God is forgiving. I plan to get my butt in a pew soon though.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

CYBERSNARK

Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:01 PM

Raised as a Christian.

Still practicing, but my own personal form of Christianity (not much of a follower, me).

Ironically enough, I find it was my dabbling in hard science, philosophy, witchcraft, eastern religions, mythology, and the occult (and pretty much everything that the Church establishment tries to suppress/discredit/destroy) that led to my current appreciation for the Church. Hell, I think Holy Blood, Holy Grail should be taught as part of the religious curriculum (and that The DaVinci Code should be taught as an example of IP theft, but that's a whole 'nuther debate).

There are just so many layers, both to the mass and to the faith itself --layers that I'd guess most laity (and probably even a few clergy) don't even realize: the Church is a ritual space, cousin to the sweat lodge or the shaman's circle. The singing of psalms and hymns descended from the shaman's drum that synchronizes the spirits of the ritual participants, awakening them to higher consciousness. The Host is a transformation of the wiccan athame, representing the male essence to the chalice/cauldron's female essence. The blessing of the Eucharist and the transubstantiation (bread & wine into body and blood) draws on the principles of sympathetic magic. Holy Water (which should have salt in it) is a spiritual disruptor, and using it to make the sign of the cross is a purification before the ritual (which is why I refuse to dip my finger and make the sign when leaving church --it defeats the purpose, messing up the spiritual "charging" the mass ritual just established). . .

And that duel between Moses and the Pharaoh's sorcerers, with the staffs turning into serpents --I could fuel a whole research paper on the symbolic meaning of that sequence!

In general, my only problem with the Church is with the Establishment. I'm too much of a non-conformist to accept Obedience as a cardinal virtue. Can't imagine that any God worth following would prefer Hir followers to be willfully ignorant (honest ignorance, I can stomache, but willfully avoiding learning? I think that's a sin).

Officially, there are things humans are not capable of comprehending, and so it's a "sin" for us to try. I don't hold to that. I think our minds (and specifically, our imaginations) are the most critical aspects of our existence. I don't think there is anything we can't comprehend. Up to and including the mind of God. I think it's our responsibility to confront and learn from the things that most offend us. (Can you tell I grew up watching Star Trek? )

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

CIRHSEIN

Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:10 PM

I'm a devout Christian and a fanatical Browncoat. I've never watched much Buffy, and I've never seen Angel, so I can't speak to those shows, but it was, in fact, the religious elements of "Firefly" that initially intrigued me.

I know that Joss is an atheist, and of course we'll never know where he was going with the religious themes in the show, but I find it interesting that one of our first images of Mal is an expression of his faith. His life after the battle of Serenity Valley seems to be a reaction against the faith that let him down, and, of course, if he's reacting against it, that's only because he still feels it.

Shepherd Book was set up as one of the most interesting and complex characters on the show, and I find it both inexplicable and sad that Joss elected to waste him (both literally and figuratively) in the BDM.

At any rate, I've always been drawn to fiction that has spiritual themes and subtexts, and sci-fi is an excellent genre in which to explore those ideas without being preachy.

:)

ASORTAFAIRYTALE

Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:30 PM

I'm a Christian, and I love firefly, what else is there to say?

------

We're all just floating...

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:01 PM

Token Neopagan jumping in to comment on the Neopagan info. Sorry to hijack the thread - I'll keep it brief!

Quote:
Witches and neopagans themselves have found it impossible to agree on definitions of witchcraft and neopaganism,

Yep. We're a pretty eclectic group. Mostly because there are loads and loads of Pagan religions out there, not just Wicca, New Age, Neopagan stuff.

Quote:

but nevertheless claim to intuitively recognize those who worship the way they do. Therefore, instead of trying to define these movements by their doctrines or practices, Alexander cites their common attitudes.

That's more or less the Pagan way. We don't focus on what divides us or makes us different. Instead we search for common ground.

Quote:

These attitudes begin with the rejection of established society and include:

I wouldn't agree with this statement. Pagans don't reject established society. We may reject certain aspects of the modern world - obviously we're not Christian (although there are Pagans out there who embrace Christian ritual and are happy to walk that path) and we try to be more spiritual than commerical (although you only have to google "Pagan stores" to see we can be as capitalist as anybody else) but we don't go around saying "society bad, anarchy good!" We're part of society. We're not just this mad group on the fringes. We're doctors, lawyers, teachers, we're in the police forces and the military. We're a minority, but we're society. Just like everyone else.

Quote:

• Rejection of Christian monotheism in favor of the animistic, polytheistic, or pantheistic powers believed to be available “for enlightenment and occult empowerment”;

Yes and No. Pagans aren't polytheistic exactly. We believe that there is a God, Higher Power, Deity, Spiritual Being, whatever. We see it as both male and female. And we try to keep in touch with that Deity, through many different methods from many different religions around the world, since we see any belief that tries to bring you closer to that Deity as valid. All the Gods and Goddesses - El, Yaweh, Jehovah, Zeus, Inanna, Brighid, Astarte - these are all aspects of The Deity. They speak to us of the Deity itself, but they're not the complete picture. Some Pagans will latch on to one or more of these aspects, while others will just use the generic terms The Goddess and The God. As far as we're concerned, it's all the same thing.

Quote:

• Rejection of the concept of sin and of the need for salvation;

Yes and No. If you do something wrong it comes back to haunt you. There's no "get out of hell free" salvation card. But we don't do the right thing because we fear the consequences. We do it because we choose to be a positive force in the world.

Quote:

• Rejection of accountability to any higher power in favor of “an ethic of self-will tempered by mysticism”; and

Nope. We're accountable all right. But if we make mistakes or do something harmful we see that as our fault and our choice, not the result of temptation or an outside force. So we have to accept the consequences of that - which is pretty much summed up in the phrase "What goes around comes around."

Quote:

• Inclination to goddess or nature worship, feminism, and environmentalism.

Yeah, this would be right. Although in general we don't worship The Goddess to the exclusion of The God. Some traditions do, but that only gives you half the picture. We see both male and female as being in perfect balance with one another, and both equally part of The Deity.

That would be my personal take on my own beliefs, but from what I know it's also in accordance with most Neopagan/Wiccan belief systems. Not Christian though, so I'll butt out now.

I do think it's really cool that my beliefs can be so different to yours and yet we still find common ground in Firefly. Does anyone else think that's cool?

More animations available at http://desktophippie.g

TVCHICK

Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:01 PM

Born-again Browncoat here. :)

Anyone have the link to the Christian organization that reviewed Serenity & had pretty much good things to say about it?

Joss' story arcs often are about redemption. What's anti-Christian about that?

---
When you can't run, you crawl.
And when you can't do that...
You find someone to carry you.

STILLSHINY

Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:41 PM

Do note, all the opinions you've responed to were merely quotes, not opionions of the browncoated ones.

Nerthelss, point well taken.

Sounding off once more. Christian Browncoat

You don't Fix faith...It fixes you.

"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion

Stillshiny's Shop - Original creator of the -isms series
http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=4728

http://www.myspace.com/robdhiii

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:54 PM

Quote:

Do note, all the opinions you've responed to were merely quotes, not opionions of the browncoated ones.

Yep, I saw that

In fact some of it is even taken from Pagan sources! It just seemed a little inaccurate. The collective noun for Pagans isn't a coven, it's an argument!

Stay shiny, Oh Shiny One

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN

Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:20 PM

Cybersnark

"In general, my only problem with the Church is with the Establishment. I'm too much of a non-conformist to accept Obedience as a cardinal virtue. Can't imagine that any God worth following would prefer Hir followers to be willfully ignorant (honest ignorance, I can stomache, but willfully avoiding learning? I think that's a sin).

Officially, there are things humans are not capable of comprehending, and so it's a "sin" for us to try. I don't hold to that. I think our minds (and specifically, our imaginations) are the most critical aspects of our existence. I don't think there is anything we can't comprehend. Up to and including the mind of God. I think it's our responsibility to confront and learn from the things that most offend us. (Can you tell I grew up watching Star Trek? )"
-------------------------------------------------

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
Galileo Galilei

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

KINROEDARKSTONE

Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:25 PM

This Browncoat is Christian. Now this a Shiny example of a family. I see many who believe in God and are in that particular "Family". Yet at the same time, we have here those who are not of that "Family", BUT ARE a part of this Browncoat family! Shiny! Too many of our world nit pick the the differences of the beliefs of others to the point of shunning the very ones Christian are reaching out to. I'm glad at least here we find a FAMILY to which we can be a part of and not fight about our differences in beliefs.

Stay Shiny Y'all.

--------------
Wash: Closing in.
Zoe: Planet's coming up a might fast.
Wash: That's just 'cause I'm goin' down too quick. Likely crash and kill us all.
Mal: Well, if that happens, let me know.

DUKKATI

Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:32 PM

Yep Im a Born again believer..

Thanks go to Captian Bryan and his crew. Who are all born again.

We may not act like what most nonbelievers think we should act like but nonbelievers don't know what we know.

I've been through the system.
It don't work.

NVGHOSTRIDER

Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:47 PM

Not a Christian, but a believer of Christian ideals. Kinda hard to label them strictly as Christian ideals, many beliefs and religions share them.
Religion, just like math and speech, are abstract ideas. You can't touch 2+2 or our many languages just as you can't touch God. At least not on this plane.
If a belief changes from abstract to concrete, it becomes law. Faith and law have no place with each other except with totalitarians and fanatics.

Love your fellow man, the earth we walk upon, and yourself. If that is not the ultimate goal of God, than what is its purpose?

DUKKATI

Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:13 PM

___________________________________________________

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:

Love your fellow man, the earth we walk upon, and yourself. If that is not the ultimate goal of God, than what is its purpose?

_____________________________________________________OIC the /quote boxed thingy OK got it
(well this is me talking now I dont know why it keeps making it look quoted)

[maybe a solid line will work){nope it didnt oh well}

I could tell you what HIS ultimate goal is.

But I thought this thread was to say "Yes Im a Christian and I like Firefly er..a being a Browncoat... wait I could be wrong let me check........yea it says it right there at the top "NO AGENDA"
-----------------------------------------------

I've been through the system.
It don't work.

CITIZEN

Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:20 PM

Can't you just feel the christian love ^

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NVGHOSTRIDER

Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:27 PM

No agenda implied. I am neither as intelligent as Citizen nor as combative as, well, Citizen.
I was just tryin' not to offend any of the non-Christians listening. Any true Christian may want to consider that man was created in Gods image, not as clones to our creator. The far reaching mystery and understanding of God is the reason I do believe in Him, her, it, or whatever. Living in such a way as to prove my soul worthy of purification and ascention to the heavens. Absolving my sins and helping others to understand the purity of morals and ideals parallel with "Christian" beliefs.

Sorry if I offended. None was intended to any out there paying attention. I was just hopin' that the attention was more on love and acceptance of our fellow men, earth, and ourselves.

STILLSHINY

Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
No agenda implied. I am neither as intelligent as Citizen nor as combative as, well, Citizen.
I was just tryin' not to offend any of the non-Christians listening. Any true Christian may want to consider that man was created in Gods image, not as clones to our creator. The far reaching mystery and understanding of God is the reason I do believe in Him, her, it, or whatever. Living in such a way as to prove my soul worthy of purification and ascention to the heavens. Absolving my sins and helping others to understand the purity of morals and ideals parallel with "Christian" beliefs.

Sorry if I offended. None was intended to any out there paying attention. I was just hopin' that the attention was more on love and acceptance of our fellow men, earth, and ourselves.

I believe that was well said.

TO ALL:

So I said no agenda. I may have been incorrect. I had an agenda, and that was to have.... "no agenda"

I just wanted to make a thread, where those who ARE Christians could pop up & say, "Hey, I'm a Christian and I'm a Browncoat."

Not even a place to discuss what you believe, or why. Because invaribly as soon as you do that you open the door for disagreement. And it seems to me, we've got plenty of other threads to do that.

I have absolute respect for those who don't profess to be Christians and choose to profess whatever they choose to believe or choose not to, as the case may be.

But this thread was my way to make a place where those who do profess to be Christians & love their Brownish coats could raise a glass (spirited or not) & say huzzah to Firefly, their faith & each other.

"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion

Stillshiny's Shop - Original creator of the -isms series

http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=4728

http://www.myspace.com/robdhiii

DARKJESTER

Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:53 PM

Christian and Browncoat here as well. I actually read more theology than any other subject at the moment. Spong, Crossan, Borg, Ehrman and Armstrong as an opening library list.

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast

CYBERSNARK

Friday, August 11, 2006 12:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DarkJester:
I actually read more theology than any other subject at the moment. Spong, Crossan, Borg, Ehrman and Armstrong as an opening library list.

*scary mental image*

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

STILLSHINY

Friday, August 11, 2006 12:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Quote:
Originally posted by DarkJester:
I actually read more theology than any other subject at the moment. Spong, Crossan, Borg, Ehrman and Armstrong as an opening library list.
*scary mental image*

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

Borg!

*has same scary mental image* ROFLU! Ok we really need a ROFL smiley! Because that right there is just plain funny!

"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion

Stillshiny's Shop - Original creator of the -isms series

http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=4728

http://www.myspace.com/robdhiii

RHYIANAN

Friday, August 11, 2006 2:44 AM

Another Christian Browncoat checking in

MICJWELCH

Friday, August 11, 2006 5:15 AM

I am very much a Christian (LDS to be exact. And yes, Mormons are Christians.). And very much a browncoat.

I don't see the show conflicting with my beliefs. It is about real people in a realistic world doing real things. I feel like Shepard Book sometimes - I see what other people do, and even though I may not approve, I don't fight it. People know what I think even without me saying anything.

I also don't think that Mal's spirituality has much to do with his motivation. I think it was something that Joss Whedon wanted to address later, but didn't get the chance.

Anyway, I don't want to deviate from your lack of agenda. Just sounding off.

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN

Friday, August 11, 2006 5:40 AM

*sounds off*

Browncoat and Christian here!

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

MAGDALENA

Friday, August 11, 2006 6:00 AM

Just in case you hadn't guessed from my avatar!!!!

I love this 'verse and all that's possible within it... I too felt that Joss had plans for Mal's 'faith issues' in the future and having Shepherd Book on board created higher stakes for everyone. I loved that Book was accepting and didn't preach, except gently when the time was right... I love the family values and the consequences for actions that occour not only in Firefly, but also in Buffy and Angel... I remember when Willow brought Buffy back to life using dark magic I said to my bestest friend "there's got to be repercussions from that" ... and there were!!

It's funny - I work with teenagers a lot, have also read Borg and Spong recently (yeah, actually leading a DVD study with a group from my church featuring them both) and I find a lot of useful things in both Buffy and Firefly to use as 'teaching tools' - you know using excerpts from a show to illustrate a Bible passage/life experience.

I believe that as a Christian my biggest challenge is not to judge others... that is not for me to do... So I get along with most people, unless I actually see them hurting others...

Love this place in the 'Verse! - Magdalena x x

"I love my Captain!"

MALACHITE

Friday, August 11, 2006 2:47 PM

Yep, I'm both Christian and a Browncoat. Someone on this thread brought in some quotes that seemed to imply that one couldn't (or shouldn't) be a Whedon fan and a Christian at the same time. Will it cause too much scandal if I add that I also love the Harry Potter series, too?

Only one thing's going to get you through this. Belief...

RUGBUG

Friday, August 11, 2006 6:08 PM

Thought I ought to sound off here as I've been making my beliefs pretty well known over in RWE.

Christian and Browncoat as well as Whedonite.

Malachite: My mom certainly thinks I shouldn't like Harry Potter...or Buffy. I just shrug my shoulders and say that's her opinion.

***************
"My feelings are changeable but intense" Anya (season 7 Buffy)

STARFIGHTER66

Friday, August 11, 2006 6:25 PM

I am catholic and love firefly, I think that the one thing see in firefly is that there is a convergence of religions and that one thing i notice is that while there is violence there is no one fighting over religion. to me religion is a good thing whatever it is that you believe as long as you believe and as long as what you believe hurts no one then it it is a good religion.

Alright you primitive screw-heads, listen up. See this? This is my boomstick! It's a 12-gauge double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan; retails for about one hundred nine, ninety-five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right, shop smart, shop S-Mart!

Hail to the king, baby!

STILLSHINY

Friday, August 11, 2006 7:44 PM

Browncoats is my kinda people!

Christian Browncoat right here.

I know I did this yesterday, but I get to do it again today!

"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion

Stillshiny's Shop - Original creator of the -isms series
http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=4728

http://www.myspace.com/robdhiii

AGENTRUSCO

Friday, August 11, 2006 8:52 PM

Didn't really feel the need to read this whole thread, but I'll sound off just the same.

As to the content of some of Joss' stuff, I agree that some Christians certainly find it offensive and blastphemous and whatnot. My past roommate is one of these. I however, tend to revel in the storytelling more than the story (in this, I rever to Buffy and Angel) As a writer and lover of sci/fi and fantasy, I can appreciate the creativity and the characterizations.

Anyhow, I feel one of the main purposes of humans is to revel in creativity and draw life lessons from it. That could be kinda a bit off, but I for one will always love Joss' stuff.

______________________________
I cannot abide useless people.

CITIZEN

Friday, August 11, 2006 9:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
No agenda implied. I am neither as intelligent as Citizen nor as combative as, well, Citizen.

Erm thanks I think. Sorry if I brought down the tone at all, just Dukkati irked me with the bs.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CHRISMOORHEAD

Friday, August 11, 2006 11:15 PM

Devout Christian, through and through. I've made lifelong religious vows to abstain from alcohol, sex, smoking and psycho-reactive drugs. As it is, I really need to work on not cussing so much.

Anyways, I've tooted my own horn enough. On the subject of our youth being steered towards the occult due to certain pop-culture phenomenon like Buffy, Charmed and so on, I believe that to be totally true. A simple fact is that the more exposure something has, the greater it influences people. Those most easily influenced are people who're confused and unsure about... well, everything. We call them teenagers.

That said, this is not necessarily a negative thing in my mind. I have my own opinions about the occult and those who subscribe to it (negative ones mostly), but part of my Christian belief is that God created man to be free and to decide things for himself. To attempt and tell other people that they're "wrong" is fundamentally un-Christian in my opinion, and to tell them that they're going to hell doubly so since it assumes that we, being wretched sinners ourselves, are somehow divine enough to pass judgment on anyone.

Conversely, I also get very tired of anti-Christianism. Being an able bodied white conservative-Christian male of Anglo-Saxon decent, I am pretty much the antithesis of what would be defined as a "minority". Although I've never once owned a slave, sexually harassed or degraded a woman, killed a pagan or teased the handicapped, I can't seem to find enough people who will hate me for being "at the top". Specifically on the subject of religion, I find it appalling how many people seem to take pleasure in displaying Darwin fishes pissing on Jesus fishes, displaying inverted crosses and more. Although it's certainly your right to do so and I don't believe it should be otherwise, I don't go out of my way to desecrate any sort of paganism, out of respect for other people's beliefs.

Short version: Anyone who targets large scale religion as a particular source of any problem is only helping to add to the division. Furthermore, man has held many more and much larger wars for the sake of wealth, power and land, and I think it can generally be surmised that if any or all of these things ceased to exist, man would find something else to war over instead. It is our nature: to seek greater gain.

STILLSHINY

Friday, August 11, 2006 11:35 PM

N O A G E N D A. please.

Everyone's entitled to opinions.....this just isn't the place to give them. Please.

Celebrate your Christian faith.
Celebrate your Brown coat.
Keep it Simple.

"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion

Stillshiny's Shop - Original creator of the -isms series
http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=4728

http://www.myspace.com/robdhiii

STILLSHINY

Friday, August 11, 2006 11:35 PM

N O A G E N D A. please.

Everyone's entitled to opinions.....this just isn't the place to give them. Please.

Celebrate your Christian faith.
Celebrate your Brown coat.
Keep it Simple.

"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion

Stillshiny's Shop - Original creator of the -isms series
http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=4728

http://www.myspace.com/robdhiii

DOUBLE POST......But I think I'll leave it there.

TRAVELER

Saturday, August 12, 2006 7:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Stillshiny:
N O A G E N D A. please.

Stillshiny:

Good thread. I'm not a Christian. But I have Christian friends and I guess that says a lot about how we can get along if we respect each other.

I know it is hard to discuss such a topic without Agenda creeping in. It happens to the best of us.

It is like asking me to post with just two sentences. Nearly impossible.

But I wanted to give you a bump so others will get a chance to see / read this.

Again, fine work;
Traveler

WINDSTRUCK

Saturday, August 12, 2006 7:40 PM

Another Christian here.
Roman Catholic.
Baptized and raised as one.
I like the talk of faith and belief in JWs work. Quite subliminal sometimes, that one cannot stop the signal.

When Book talks, I tend to listen quite hard. Maybe it's Ron Glass' voice.

BELUGASMOM

Saturday, August 12, 2006 8:59 PM

Fascinating thread............I'm not a Christian, so I'll shut up and go away now.

Life is short, brutal, and unpredictable. EAT DESSERT FIRST.

THESOAPBOXER

Saturday, August 12, 2006 10:29 PM

I fit the criteria for this thread. I'm proud to be both.

_____________________________________________
Could you please just make it stranger? Just stranger. Odder. Could be weirder. More bizarre. How about uncanny?
~Joss Whedon

JOSSISAGOD

Sunday, August 13, 2006 2:11 AM

Does it count if I used to be a Christian? If not, Email me at darthjedi384@excite.com to delete this post.

I've walked the world for a while and found another faith that fits me better than Christianity ever did. I've enjoyed Joss's work for BOTH the storytelling AND the "Flubotonam."

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD
This is pobably not the best Icon to have on this thread, but if you read any of TheRightStuff's posts you'd know why I've got it.

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

RIVER6213

Sunday, August 13, 2006 2:13 AM

I am a christian. A deep follower of Christ I am.

BAYFILLYZ

Sunday, August 13, 2006 2:53 AM

Christian Browncoat here and I thank God for stories like Firely, characters like Mal and the gang and creative minds like Joss.

RCAT

Sunday, August 13, 2006 11:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by magdalena:
[B}
I love this 'verse and all that's possible within it... I too felt that Joss had plans for Mal's 'faith issues' in the future and having Shepherd Book on board created higher stakes for everyone. I loved that Book was accepting and didn't preach, except gently when the time was right... I love the family values and the consequences for actions that occour not only in Firefly, but also in Buffy and Angel... I remember when Willow brought Buffy back to life using dark magic I said to my bestest friend "there's got to be repercussions from that" ... and there were!!

I believe that as a Christian my biggest challenge is not to judge others... that is not for me to do... So I get along with most people, unless I actually see them hurting others...

Well said Magdalena. I was raised Christian, won't go into current Pov, but I thought Joss's take in Firefly was very interesting. Not the usual occult stuff (which was fun to explore too)but more "a man looses faith" idea. I liked that the ideals still existed, regardless of specific circumstances.

Sorry for jumping off-topic (along w/ all the others) into the thread.

'Cause how you get there is the worthier part.
-Book

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Sunday, August 13, 2006 11:29 AM

I believe someone requested a ROTFL smilie

(Not made by me though)

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

PURPLEPENGUIN91

Sunday, August 13, 2006 3:14 PM

I'm a Catholic Christian and a Browncoat. Although, I handle my religion differently then most Catholics, and I tend to be more liberal. Anyway, I agree with what people were saying about the morality and ethics of Joss's shows.

STILLSHINY

Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:26 PM

Just thought I'd bump this & see what happens.

"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion

Stillshiny's Shop - Original creator of the -isms series
http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=4728

http://www.myspace.com/robdhiii

EMBERS

Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by traveler:

I know it is hard to discuss such a topic without Agenda creeping in. It happens to the best of us.

It is like asking me to post with just two sentences. Nearly impossible.

I think it is impossible to start a thread like this without an agenda...
one to lable folks.

I heard a joke about a man visiting Ireland and he was asked if he was a Catholic or a Protestant,
he said "actually I'm a Jew"

and they respond, "yes, but are you a CATHOLIC Jew or a PROTESTANT Jew?"

JMPO that you're putting Browncoats in boxes.

TRAVELER

Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
Quote:
Originally posted by traveler:

I know it is hard to discuss such a topic without Agenda creeping in. It happens to the best of us.

It is like asking me to post with just two sentences. Nearly impossible.

I think it is impossible to start a thread like this without an agenda...
one to lable folks.

I heard a joke about a man visiting Ireland and he was asked if he was a Catholic or a Protestant,
he said "actually I'm a Jew"

and they respond, "yes, but are you a CATHOLIC Jew or a PROTESTANT Jew?"

JMPO that you're putting Browncoats in boxes.

I personally fit in many boxes. As long as there is a place to sit, I am quit comfortable in any of them.

Stillshiny did not get on soap box pointing fingers at anybody. Just asked if there were people who shared in the Christian belief in this here verse.

As that qoute shows I responded to this thread, even though I am not christian, no one through me out of this box. And that says a lot.

So yes there is an agenda here. A good one. When I posted here it was to show my support to Stillshiny. And I'm doing it again.

Traveler

BLACKSHAMROCK5

Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:15 PM

*raises hand* Catholic here

Shamrock

JTSKIER1200R

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:26 PM

*raises hand* Been a Christian for a long time - even have formal training (Divnity School). I have to say Buffy and Angel are a little too much for my sensibilities, but I find Firefly fascinating. Book adds a whole new element that is interesting. So, I find Firefly great.

ZEEK

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:56 PM

Catholic here. I've never had any problem being a Buffy, Angel and Firefly fan as well as religious.

PSYCHOTIC

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:46 PM

I love how realistic Firefly is. Real people making decisions whether right or wrong. Loving a TV show doesn't mean that I concur with everything the characters do. A show about Christians always doing the right thing would make terribly boring TV.

Off topic:
I believe it's okay for a Christian to be interested in vampire stories. Vampires aren't real, as opposed to demon possession. The many kids interested in the occult these days should be educated in what the occult really is, rather than just going after occult-related material.

A born-again Christian here that loves Firefly (and Buffy and Angel).

DOINWHATSRIGHT

Thursday, August 17, 2006 3:38 AM

I agree with psychotic wholeheartedly. I am a Christian Browncoat and the music and drama team lead at my Baptist church. We recognize that there are secular forms of entertainment out there and don't try to pretend that we don't partake.

Christian Browncoat #[Lots]

John 12:46 "I have come into the world as a light, so that noone who believes in me should stay in the darkness."

DREAMWALKER

Thursday, August 17, 2006 4:10 AM

I'm a Christian Browncoat. I like the way religion is incorporated into the Firefly 'verse. It's there, but it doesn't overwhelm the series. I'm very liberal and I don't understand why some people tend to overreact about use of religion in tv shows and movies (like the people protesting Life of Brian or the Da Vinci Code, both of which I've seen and enjoyed)

"You're talking to Serenity. And Early...Serenity is very unhappy."

JAYNESBOWIE

Thursday, August 17, 2006 7:12 AM

I'm a christian, and I feel that Firefly is presented in a realistic way. Whats more, while many of the charecters are not christian they are countered with Godly charecters, that are presented as good people. Wise people even. I personally am happy to find a show that doesn't have anyone christian act like an ass. Much better then Arthure, for instance.

(Note for anyone who doesn't know. Arthur, the movie that came out a while ago, had a consistent theme of Christian monks hurting people for no reason and killing them in bad ways. At the time the movie takes place in, however, Rome was not ruled by Christians. The present ceaser was busy in fact having christians fed to live lions. As someone who likes learning about history, it was a double anoyance. Totally unfairly against Christians, and Historically incorrect. If you haven't seen the movie, take my advice and don't.)

Jayne: "Testing, testing. Captain, can you hear me?"
Mal: "I'm standing right here."
Jayne: "You're coming through good and loud."
Mal: " 'Cause I'm standing right here."

ESTHER

Thursday, August 17, 2006 7:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
If a belief changes from abstract to concrete, it becomes law.

Interesting thought - well formulated. But we are humans - we are concrete. We cannot live on the abstract allone.

That's why I think, the jewis/christion viewpoint is so intreaguing. It combines it, by saying, that God (abstract) is someone to relate to (concrete), and that the archaic knowledge of the mystic intrinsic to all men (guilt/forgiveness/sacrifice/resurrection - abstract, can be found in all old religions by way of symbols and legends) became "flesh" at a concrete point in time. (C.S. Lewis wrote an very interesting essay on that)

Esther

Love my captain!

ESTHER

Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:30 AM

Actually, I don't like "posing" as christian (allthough I am one). Raised by an agnostic father, I grew up with the saying: if someone has cleaned a room, you shouldn't put a sign up "cleaned". If people see that it's clean, that's enough, but if they don't, the sign is just embarrassing.

Esther

Love my captain!

ESTHER

Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BelugasMom:
Fascinating thread............I'm not a Christian, so I'll shut up and go away now.
B]

Hey, let's start our own thread! I'm a cristian, but I like it much more to exchange thoughts and arguments on Believe, God and peoples views on the universe, than about myself. (By the way: there are some interesting exchanges on the "Is Mal an Atheist?" thread ...) - and talking to non-believers is always more interesting to me ('cause the arguments of the other side, I know myself ... )

Stay shiney!
Esther

ANDMAN

Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:18 AM

I am a Christian and a browncoat.

I see nothing in Firefly and Serenity that is something that I have been taught to argue against.

And anyway, even if there was, there is a way that you can be both and not be mocked. You can find a way to make anything fit in with christianity.

I know some christians who can accept the theory of evolution. Just not as an absolute.

They say that the theory is fine and perfectly possible, but that God made the 'verse and just started life off. Not made the finished article, but the beginning.

Like Mal seeing Serenity in the shipyard. The story started there. It was nurtured and bloomed into what we know as Firefly and Serenity.

Anybody who disagrees with any of this violently can do so. But no matter what you do, "You can't take the sky from me".

STILLSHINY

Thursday, August 17, 2006 1:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Esther:
Actually, I don't like "posing" as christian (allthough I am one). Raised by an agnostic father, I grew up with the saying: if someone has cleaned a room, you shouldn't put a sign up "cleaned". If people see that it's clean, that's enough, but if they don't, the sign is just embarrassing.

Esther

Love my captain!

Let me see if I get this quote right

Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't. - Margaret Thatcher

I think being a Christian is much the same way. It's gotta show in your actions. As does any faith or creed you cling to.

"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion

Stillshiny's Shop - Original creator of the -isms series

http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=4728

http://www.myspace.com/robdhiii

NVGHOSTRIDER

Thursday, August 17, 2006 4:11 PM

No agenda, just opinion.

Though we may seem concrete, our bodies are a mere accumulation of energies. As for the meaning of abstract, let me claify. I meant abstract thinking, not neccessarily abstract being. People of faith may consider their deity to be concrete with their abstract thinking. Ultimately it is blasphemy to consider God as concrete, flesh, tangible. Man can only liken himself to the IMAGE of god. If we wish to touch ourselves, we cannot hope to do so by touching a mirror image or a picture of ourselves. But we can feel the feelings we had in the picture or sense the feelings we have in the mirror. Sometimes it just takes a moment to look at ourselves to truly understand. We touch the abstract part of ourselves in an abstract way.
And what you say is very true. There has to be some affirmation of a deity for most men to believe. Even my culture has "concrete" affirmations of the works of God, (mostly animals sent to show man when they cannot understand what "God" is saying)
It is the arguing that shows the lack of faith humans really have. There should be no need to defend whatever god you believe in. Just like guts, faith is enough.
I salute the faithful. Let your faith fly true.

ESTHER

Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:29 PM

Hey, NVGhostwriter,

let's leave the nonagenda-people and start a discussion

No, really, I started a thread "Abstract and concrete about God" down at the troll country, where I made some comments to your comments. Whoever would like to join is wellcome...

Esther

Love my captain!

NVGHOSTRIDER

Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:54 PM

I might be brave enough for troll country today. Just let me get my shots first.

ESTHER

Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:14 PM

Oooops, didn't know that troll country was kind of the readlight district around here. I thought it was for things, that didn't fit anywhere else. (sorry, this is the first time I ever participated in a thread/community/fan site). But then again, shouldn't Christians be, where the low, poor and despised are?
Esther

Love my captain!

ESTHER

Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:14 PM

ESTHER

Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:15 PM

Tribble post - it's getting late over here in Europe ...

NVGHOSTRIDER

Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:42 PM

I would suggest reading some of the crap in Troll Country if it weren't profane, disgusting, mean hearted, and mostly pointless.
And I strapped on the Troll squashing boots too. Ya can't trust a troll. Its better to ignore them as not to need a stick for cleanin' out boot treads later. The smell never goes away.

Glad you made it back.

ZOID

Friday, August 18, 2006 4:43 PM

Cybersnark wrote:

Quote:
Raised as a Christian.

Still practicing, but my own personal form of Christianity (not much of a follower, me).

Ironically enough, I find it was my dabbling in hard science, philosophy, witchcraft, eastern religions, mythology, and the occult (and pretty much everything that the Church establishment tries to suppress/discredit/destroy) that led to my current appreciation for the Church. Hell, I think Holy Blood, Holy Grail should be taught as part of the religious curriculum (and that The DaVinci Code should be taught as an example of IP theft, but that's a whole 'nuther debate).

There are just so many layers, both to the mass and to the faith itself --layers that I'd guess most laity (and probably even a few clergy) don't even realize: the Church is a ritual space, cousin to the sweat lodge or the shaman's circle. The singing of psalms and hymns descended from the shaman's drum that synchronizes the spirits of the ritual participants, awakening them to higher consciousness. The Host is a transformation of the wiccan athame, representing the male essence to the chalice/cauldron's female essence. The blessing of the Eucharist and the transubstantiation (bread & wine into body and blood) draws on the principles of sympathetic magic. Holy Water (which should have salt in it) is a spiritual disruptor, and using it to make the sign of the cross is a purification before the ritual (which is why I refuse to dip my finger and make the sign when leaving church --it defeats the purpose, messing up the spiritual "charging" the mass ritual just established). . .

And that duel between Moses and the Pharaoh's sorcerers, with the staffs turning into serpents --I could fuel a whole research paper on the symbolic meaning of that sequence!

In general, my only problem with the Church is with the Establishment. I'm too much of a non-conformist to accept Obedience as a cardinal virtue. Can't imagine that any God worth following would prefer Hir followers to be willfully ignorant (honest ignorance, I can stomache, but willfully avoiding learning? I think that's a sin).

Officially, there are things humans are not capable of comprehending, and so it's a "sin" for us to try. I don't hold to that. I think our minds (and specifically, our imaginations) are the most critical aspects of our existence. I don't think there is anything we can't comprehend. Up to and including the mind of God. I think it's our responsibility to confront and learn from the things that most offend us. (Can you tell I grew up watching Star Trek? )

I am a Christian. I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, that he was given to us to be the perfect sacrifice, and that He carried out His earthly mission by dying for our inherent sins. Nobody should be blamed for His death; it was preordained, and without it we would all still be 'punished' for our sins -- isolated from the presence of God -- in this life and after.

Along the way from manger to cross, Jesus showed us the proper relationship between Man and God: Love others -- even your enemies -- as well as you love yourself. Treat them as you would like others to treat you. And here's the really important, the really tricky part: Don't judge the status of other people's souls, unless you're certain that you could likewise stand up to God's Judgment of the status of your soul (hint: as long as you're wearing flesh, you can't withstand the weight of your weaknesses under Judgment). He also got into a lot of trouble by vexing the religious Establishment of His day, so...

For the most part, I agree with everything Cybersnark had to say, and with more than a few other posters, as well. But C'snark in particular captured the essence of some Christian Establishment bans on the advancement of physical knowledge. God gave us a mind -- like 'Hir' own -- to use. (NB: I dig that asexual reference, and hereby 'steal' it from you.) I feel Mankind screwed the pooch and prematurely partook of the Tree of Knowledge before SHe was finished preparing us for th

CYBERSNARK

Friday, August 18, 2006 6:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
(NB: I dig that asexual reference, and hereby 'steal' it from you.)

Steal away; I borrowed it from Peter David (Star Trek New Frontiers has a hermaphroditic character).

Quote:
Unless of course one of the early founders of the Church was a woman-hater (oh, I dunno, say Paul -- "He kissed her on the mouth! I'm so jealous of her relationship with Him!' -- for instance)

"That's why I never kiss 'em on the mouth." --Peter (or Jayne, whichever)

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

ZOID

Friday, August 18, 2006 11:43 PM

Cybersnark wrote:

Quote:
"That's why I never kiss 'em on the mouth." --Peter (or Jayne, whichever)

St. Jayne of the Bent Scope, heh-heh. Patron Saint of Untrained Man-Apes (meaning, men in general)...

v/r,
-zed

EMBERS

Saturday, August 19, 2006 12:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
If this came across as having an 'agenda'... Oops! Can you forgive me?

pretty much have to forgive you, being Christians and all....

That was a very interesting post... thanks

FIREFLYPASSENGER

Saturday, August 19, 2006 6:16 AM

I love how Joss tells a story. There's stuff I don't like or agree with but I love how Joss tells a story.

I am a devout Catholic Christian and a faithful Browncoat. I have learned so much about other people and what they believe. The world is full of a great diversity of people, from around the world, different religions and beliefs.

Most of all I love how Joss tells a story.