Meaning of this Quote?

POSTED BY: EcksVanguard
UPDATED: Saturday, February 28, 2004 00:33
VIEWED: 11094
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ECKSVANGUARD

Friday, January 23, 2004 3:04 PM (P)

"Live with a man for 40 years. Eat the same meals, speak with him on every subject, then tie him up and hold him over the mouth of a volcano. On that day, you will meet the man".

Firefly script rox, but whats this one really mean?

SHINY

Friday, January 23, 2004 3:21 PM (P)

It means Shan Yu (and Niska) believe you only really know someone's character when you observe how they react to suffering -- the more suffering, the 'truer' the revelations about their character. And what suffering is greater than torture?

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

JOHNNYREB

Friday, January 23, 2004 3:23 PM (P)

It means, to see a man's true character, you need to put him in danger. That way, hiding his emotions, faking his emotions, lying about motives, etc. loose their priority, and you get to see the man either rise or shrink from the occasion as his worth dictates.

Howdy, ya'll. Long time no write!

Fox sucks! Viva Firefly!

ECKSVANGUARD

Friday, January 23, 2004 3:25 PM (P)

So whats the point with living with him?
Why don't you just storm into his living room and tie him up from the start?

Whats with this delay torture?!
I have other people to string up and volcanos to visit!

WERZBOWSKI

Friday, January 23, 2004 3:31 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by EcksVanguard:
So whats the point with living with him?
Why don't you just storm into his living room and tie him up from the start?

Whats with this delay torture?!
I have other people to string up and volcanos to visit!

I agree... that's good plan and a whole lot more efficient. Although the "barge in, shot 'em in the kneecap and hang 'em out the window" plan works well too.

"We will rise again!"

BMAN

Friday, January 23, 2004 3:41 PM (P)

The point is to know the man you will torture. While it would work to barge in and shoot, you would have no point of reference to understand if it was just false bravado or real fear. Courage or an act.

Know your enemy, or in this case victim.

SHINY

Friday, January 23, 2004 3:48 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by EcksVanguard:
So whats the point with living with him?
Why don't you just storm into his living room and tie him up from the start?

The quote is trying to say you can live with a man for forty years, speaking on every subject, etc. AND STILL NOT REALLY KNOW THE MAN, BUT if you hold him over the edge of the volcano (threaten/torture him) then you will truly know the man. It's not saying that you have to wait forty years before you can torture anyone, just contrasting two ways of learning about a person and saying that the latter (torture) is a much truer way to learn about a person's character than the latter (forty years of chatter)

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

SAINT JAYNE

Friday, January 23, 2004 4:13 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
The quote is trying to say you can live with a man for forty years, speaking on every subject, etc. AND STILL NOT REALLY KNOW THE MAN, BUT

Yes, the "BUT" is the important part. It's making a comparison, not suggesting that you do both.

I just realized Disney's Mulan had Shan Yu in it. He's that tall, well-groomed Mongolian who plays with dollies.

WILDHEAVENFARM

Saturday, January 24, 2004 12:27 AM (P)

Sure'n he meant that you *could* live with a man for years and never really know what he's like. Perhaps that point just a frog's hair from death is the only time anyone exhibits, or even realizes, their true self. Okay, that got a little deeper than I intended it to when I set out. A joke then. What has four legs, is green and would kill you if it fell out of a tree? A pool table.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

KALATHENA

Saturday, January 24, 2004 12:37 AM (P)

Quote:
And what suffering is greater than torture?

Reality television?

--Kala

SHINY

Saturday, January 24, 2004 6:21 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by kalathena:
Quote:
And what suffering is greater than torture?

Reality television?

Okay, you got me there.

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

EVIL DEAD

Sunday, January 25, 2004 7:44 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyReb:
Fox sucks! Viva Firefly!

i agree!

"Alright, you primitive screw heads, listen up; this... is my boomstick!"

VETERAN

Sunday, January 25, 2004 8:50 PM (P)

JohnnyReb wrote:

Quote:
Howdy, ya'll. Long time no write!

Hey Johnny, good to see you posting.

ECKSVANGUARD wrote:

Quote:
So whats the point with living with him?
Why don't you just storm into his living room and tie him up from the start?

You have to take the quote in context. It's a philosophy text. Shan Yu is explaining, what he believes to be true, that you don't see the true person until they are face with death.

Niska takes it further, the person must be broken down and then brought to the point of death.

TAMFAMFAN

Sunday, January 25, 2004 9:21 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by kalathena:
Quote:
And what suffering is greater than torture?

Reality television?

--Kala

I was going to say tied to a chair and forced to watch the presidential debates while Charo sings well known television jingles dressed as the Great Pumpkin, but Reality TV...::shudders:: there's some things that even brainwashing couldn't erase.

You look better in red.

LOADANDMAKEREADY

Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:53 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
It means Shan Yu (and Niska) believe you only really know someone's character when you observe how they react to suffering -- the more suffering, the 'truer' the revelations about their character. And what suffering is greater than torture?

It means that Shan Yu and Niska are psychopaths.

Think about it! You pretend to be a persons life long friend. After fourty years, you believe you will discover your friends true feelings about you by brutally torturing him. During this session of torture you learn that your victim hates you.

Golly! Gee! You betray a life long friendship, and the person you betrayed doesn't like you because of it. Who would ever have imagined it?

KISPEXI2

Thursday, January 29, 2004 4:01 PM (P)

Now, all that's downright unsettlin'!

_________

I've like my sky a little less empty

LOADANDMAKEREADY

Friday, January 30, 2004 4:27 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kispexi2:
Now, all that's downright unsettlin'!

Hey! When JW creates villains, he creates ... um, how you say in English ... VILLAINS!!

ABOVE ALL ELSE, KYFHO!

AMNESIAC

Monday, February 2, 2004 9:34 AM (P)

Just rewatched that ep today. Oh I love the layers. The rampant Shan Yu quoting is about both Wash and Nishka.

You have the man (Wash). He lives with someone, (Zoe) for 40 years (Not really 40 years, but you get the idea). Mal has been with Zoe while she's dangled over the mouth of the volcano. Wash hasn't been there with his wife yet.

All of the jealousy Wash displays in War Stories is really about Mal's suposed knowledge of Zoe's true self. According to Shan Yu, Mal has 'met' Zoe. Wash has not.

So Wash gets to 'meet' Mal, and Nishka gets to 'meet' Mal. Kaylee gets to 'meet' River, and then in the assault on Nishka's station, Wash gets to 'meet' Zoe.

When Mal and the torturer guy are dangling over the very busy nonspecific object factory, and Zoe says: "This is something Mal has to do for himself.", and she's wrong, it proves Shan Shu...(sorry wrong show) I mean Shan Yu wrong. Zoe knows that Mal could withstand the torture longer than Wash because she's 'met' Mal, and chooses to buy Wash's freedom before mounting a rescue. Shan Yu is right.

The whole episode stays on topic with this quote and there are so many examples that I don't want to write anymore. That quote is what the whole episode explores.

CAPTAINCHIHBI

Saturday, February 28, 2004 12:33 AM (P)

Johnnyreb - I don't have a # for you. Email me.