BlueSunShirts.com getting FOXed?!!?

POSTED BY: TenthCrewMember
UPDATED: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:34
VIEWED: 25966
PAGE 1 of 1

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:23 AM

Here's a link to an article I just saw on SerenityStuff:

http://www.serenitystuff.com/2006/09/14/bluesunshirtscom-gets-a-c-and-
d-letter-from-fox/

I apologize if folk have already talked about this, but I didn't see a thread on it...and I thought folk should know if they don't.

I could see if FOX was upset over certain designs, but if they are upset over the use of the BLUE SUN design...well...you can read my comment on SerenityStuff (which by the way is the coolest site on Earth-that-was behind this site!)

BWAH!
TCM

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OLDHAG

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:43 AM

The Reason for this might be that Unviersal already has already produced and made Blue Sun t-shirts. I myself have one and got it at hot topic. I don't know if i'm the only one that has seen them but really i don't think i am. Oh, by the way, it's a bad-*ss shirt. try to find one if you already don't have yours.

Timmy

V

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:08 AM

There's two different designs of the Blue Sun logo, are they only going after one particular design?

Remember, Remember the fifth of November

BROWNCOAT1

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:58 AM

According to an email I got from Alex of Blue Sun Shirts, Fox wants his entire site shut down and he is to cease selling of all Firefly shirts.

I know that Fox owns the rights to all Firefly related articles and any images shown on their network, but WTF?!? Four years they have done nothing. Literally a hundred sites on line and Ebay merchants selling Firefly related items and they wait four years to do something. What a bunch of crap. Don't they realize that selling of such things help to market the dvd set they are making money off of?

It is this kind of shortsighted behavior that cost us the show to begin with.

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:24 PM

As much as I hate to say it, I think I am gonna start researching the "official" merchandise out there, and if ANY of it leads to profits for FOX, I am not buying it. If they continue, I'll resort to no longer buying DVD sets and I'll find other ways to introduce folk to Firefly...maybe go back to the way things were BEFORE the DVD set appeared...if you follow my meaning.

Additionally, I am not going to watch FOX anymore. I love Bones and the Simpsons, but I love Firefly more. Sorry FOX, but you are dangerously close to the last straw where this fan is concerned (whom, along with many others, you would have NO marketability for your show without me)

BWARE42

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:30 PM

The Blue Sun shirts on bluesunshirts.com did not appear on Firefly, did they? If I recall correctly, the tv series used an incorrect character in its blue sun log...Which was corrected by bluesunshirts.com. If that's the case, an argument can be made that the Firefly "Blue Sun" is different from bluesunshirts "Blue Sun."

A tough argument, but it's the best one you've got!

Time for some thrilling heroics.

WHOISRIVER

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BWare42:
The Blue Sun shirts on bluesunshirts.com did not appear on Firefly, did they?

It's a valid argument, but you'd be arguing in court with one of the worlds biggest companies. They'd crush you.

At the end of the day, as long as FOX don't start targeting other sites things are fine. They went after fan sites of The Simpsons, Buffy and The X-Files a few years ago and had them all shut down. So, fingers crossed they ignore places like here.

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:47 PM

One Buffy site I used to frequent had a cease and desist order banning her from using any Buffy images in her banners, graphics or anywhere on her site, as well as various other orders. I really REALLY hope they aren't stupid enough to pull something like that on still-flying.

I doubt it would effect me as I'm small fry and non-profit, but then so are most fan sites out there. The Buffy site (Buffy Cross & Stake) obeyed the orders without quarrel, but with a fair amount of bitterness since she'd basically given them free advertising for six years.

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

PAGANPAUL

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 3:23 PM

As a show of support, I just placed an order with bluesunshirts.com.

It's sad to see just how petty some companies can be, and even sadder to realize just how short sighted F*X is! They continue to hurt themselves at every opportunity, instead of capitalizing on free advertising opportunities.

CITIZEN

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:42 PM

In big corporate world there is no such thing as living with your mistakes.

FOX is starting to realise what they're missing out on and want not just a piece but the whole damn pie.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CITIZEN

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BWare42:
The Blue Sun shirts on bluesunshirts.com did not appear on Firefly, did they? If I recall correctly, the tv series used an incorrect character in its blue sun log...Which was corrected by bluesunshirts.com. If that's the case, an argument can be made that the Firefly "Blue Sun" is different from bluesunshirts "Blue Sun."

It is a derivative work, which means it belongs to the copyright owner of the original work that the subsequent work was derived from.

For instance you can come up with a new type of starship for Star Trek, never seen in any movie or series, but it would be copyright Paramount. This has actually happened with Star Wars, a guy made some original pieces of work, and ILM used them without his permission. They could because they owned them.

Copyright law is the worst sin against mankind.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

DERANGEDMILK

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TenthCrewMember:

Additionally, I am not going to watch FOX anymore. I love Bones and the Simpsons, but I love Firefly more. Sorry FOX, but you are dangerously close to the last straw where this fan is concerned (whom, along with many others, you would have NO marketability for your show without me

I've already stopped. I wasn't big fan since they shared their name with the ministry of information but after Firefly I said the hell with 'em.

To bad for bluesunshirts.com though. I actually just got the "Slim's Used Spacecraft Sales" from them about a week ago. Maybe I should go pick up that Fighting Elves t-shirt if in two weeks I won't be able to.
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

V

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:34 PM

I just ordered a Troublemaker Shirt, I hope I get it! Their Fighting Elves 28 shirt is top grade, let me tell you!

Remember, Remember the fifth of November

SHADOWLEOPARD

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 7:21 PM

So....

Am I the only one who sees that this might actually be a good thing?

Why, oh why would FOX want to protect an old franchise suddenly?

Maybe because things are moving?

XITWOUND117

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ShadowLeopard:
So....

Am I the only one who sees that this might actually be a good thing?

Why, oh why would FOX want to protect an old franchise suddenly?

Maybe because things are moving?

Its a fool's hope. First of all, Joss has said he will never work with Fox again. Secondly, why would they pick it up now? A year after the buzz about Serenity died away is not exactly prime timing.

Fox is most likely just being a dick. If they do resurrect Firefly, I'll forgive them for everything. But they won't.

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:02 PM

MY GOD I REALLY HATE FUX! Screw 'em I just bought a fighting elves shirt. I hope Alex is going to fight them... doubt if he'd win against those but I hope he tries. Hell I'd even donate money towards his legal fees.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

STORYMARK

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:12 PM

While it does suck, I'm really surprised it took this long. Free advertising or not, no corporation is going to let people sell merchandise they legally have the rights to, without getting any money for it.

I know people here love tobash Fox, I'm not above it myself, but try to remember they're not doing it to actively hurt Firefly fans. They are a business, and they do things that make business sense. If someone were selling Strange Luck or Dark Angel bootleg shirts, you can bet Fox would be on them, too. For that matter, try selling some bootleg Serenity shirts, and I'm sure Universal will come knocking pretty quick.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

STORYMARK

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Whimsicalnbrainpan:
MY GOD I REALLY HATE FUX! Screw 'em I just bought a fighting elves shirt. I hope Alex is going to fight them... doubt if he'd win against those but I hope he tries. Hell I'd even donate money towards his legal fees.

That'd be a waste of your money, and his time. He won't win. The law is pretty clear-cut here. As much as we may appreciate what Alex is doing, legally, he's in the wrong.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

BWARE42

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PaganPaul:
As a show of support, I just placed an order with bluesunshirts.com.

I just did the same thing! :D

I bought a Blue Sun and Fighting Elves tee a year or so ago, and they are awesome!!! Get them afore they're gone!!!

Time for some thrilling heroics.

WHOISRIVER

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:20 PM

Quote:

Maybe because things are moving?

'afraid not. It's because a company has licensed (paid) for the tshirt rights for Firefly from 20th Century Fox.

Including the Blue Sun logo.

You can buy the official Tshirts here:

http://stylinonline.stores.yahoo.net/tsserenitybluesun.html

Because a company has paid for the license, and fans are selling the tshirts without paying AND profiting from it, it's sprung Fox's legal department into action.

Edit: Actually, I've just noticed they have the license from Universal, not FOX, so god knows why FOX are trying to enforce things. Pretty wacky.

STORYMARK

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

Edit: Actually, I've just noticed they have the license from Universal, not FOX, so god knows why FOX are trying to enforce things. Pretty wacky.

They also have a Firefly shirt: http://stylinonline.stores.yahoo.net/tsfireflylogobrown.html

Which I assume had to be licenced from Fox.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

HUGHFF

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:00 PM

http://stylinonline.stores.yahoo.net/firefly.html
Is a whole bunch of Firefly stuff. I hate to say it but if you produce licenced stuff without a licence, you can't really complain about a letter like this.

www.cpfc.org - my life
www.nbhs.school.nz - my work

AGENTRUSCO

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:08 PM

This makes me undyingly sad. Fans are fans man. I have a fighting elves shirt from bluesunshirts.com. It is the best thing ever. I highly encourage everyone to freaking buy his stuff. At least if he does get stupidly shut down, it'd be with a bang and a huge show of support.

At the same time though, I understand the reasoning behind a network wanting to be the sole gainer of profit. But, well, we all know where FOX stands in that. They're the ones who shut it down in the first place. It's not as if they get no money from other things.

______________________________
I cannot abide useless people.

HELL'S KITTEN

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BWare42:
The Blue Sun shirts on bluesunshirts.com did not appear on Firefly, did they?

The Blue Sun logo with the correct usage characters appeared in "The Message," and maybe elsewhere.

************************************************
Not captioned for the sarcasm impaired.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sara013

LEIASKY

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:25 PM

It's very strange that Fox is getting involved at this point.

Corporations (and I work for one IN the licensening department) only tend to go after their big Properties on their own.

Huge companies like Fox only send C&D's for smaller Properties like Firefly if one of their licensees has complained that the sale of similar items is infringing on their agreement.

If Fox/Universal continue to sign licenses for this Property, there is something to be said about Firefly/Serenity being viable.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 10:19 PM

Corporate America is wacky. I once got a cease and decist order from the got milk? people over my GOT MUDDERS MILK? design. Effectively, their argument was, even though my image looked NOTHING like theirs, because I had the words "got" and "milk" in it, they we're flexing their corporate muscles. I couldn't even put "got a big thing of liquidy stuff some folk think is milk?" using any font, because in their mind "got" and "milk" are in it and they know I don't have the money to fight it.

It is how it is.

Still, I thought FOX released the Blue Sun image to public domain in order to encourage fans to promote the show on their own site? http://www.fireflyfans.net/firefly/features.htm
When did they copyright it? and I guess they own the copyright on horses, stars, water, cacti, dirt, and chopsticks too...

"Enjoy" they say. Indeed.

..Fucking
..Obstinate
coXuckers

MIRACULOUSBUMM

Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:00 AM

Gorramit. This is retarded. Sure it's legal, but it sure as hell ain't moral. (subliminal reference to "Heart of Gold") Gorram F*x!

--------------------------------------------------

Always havin' a good time!

MOHRSTOUTBEARD

Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:25 AM

Unless FOX has plans on releasing a bunch of high quality, screen accurate Jayne shirts (which I doubt), then this news is quite lame.

------------------
"Remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over."

TERRI

Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:07 AM

See, this is the thing that bothers me. F*x only offers limited Firefly merchandise, and then bugs out when other people put thier stuff up. And yes, well, it's not techinically legal, but it's fandom. We cannot buckle in to this. The more cash cow Fox sees Firefly is, the less willing they will be to let the franchise go, and we can get on with our lives. I don't see what we can do other then try to buy less official Firefly stuff. It's getting to the point where F*X can smell blood in the water and either they're going to sell it soon, or they're never going to.

SINGATE

Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:54 AM

It would really be a shame if this whole thing forced Browncoats to go underground in order to peddle their wares. Some people might construe this sort of thing as illegal and that just wouldn't be in the Browncoat spirit. I sincerely hope I am not planting any unethical ideas into some disgruntled merchant's mind.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

HISGOODGIRL

Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:42 PM

We're with you, PaganPaul. Bigbadman and I just ordered shirts from bluesunshirts.com as a show of solidarity.

Way back before We ever found commercially made Blue Sun shirts, I made one from scratch using blue acrylic paint and an old tan t-shirt. So is Fox gonna come after me, too? (Better not. Us Browncoats got guns!)

Keep Flyin'!

PAGANPAUL

Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
It would really be a shame if this whole thing forced Browncoats to go underground.

Hmmm... Sounds like the Alliance wants us Independants to lay down arms and just roll over and play dead.

AINT... GONNA... HAPPEN!

That's what makes us Browncoats!

Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

Isn't this quote from The Call of Cthulhu by H.P. Lovecraft? I love that story, and the 2005 B&W silent movie filmed in "Mythoscope" by the H.P. Lovecraft Historical Society was killer! Have you seen it?

INDIANABANZAI

Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:58 PM

Just ordered a Slim's shirt. Always planned on getting one, now's as good a time as any I suppose.

SINGATE

Friday, September 22, 2006 7:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PaganPaul:
[Isn't this quote from The Call of Cthulhu by H.P. Lovecraft? I love that story, and the 2005 B&W silent movie filmed in "Mythoscope" by the H.P. Lovecraft Historical Society was killer! Have you seen it?

Indeed it is, good eye! Not enough Lovecraft fans around if you ask me. No, I haven't seen that particular movie. Unfortunately most the film adaptations I have seen are pretty bad.

Oh, and my previous post was meant to be a bit sarcastic. I mean, no Browncoat would ever do anything even remotely unlawful.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

BLACKOUTNIGHTS

Friday, September 22, 2006 4:37 PM

I also am going to quit watching FOX television and going to any movies they distribute or are involved in. I love "24", but I don't think the execs up top have anything in mind but the bottom line. Business is about responsible service as well as money.

However, I might tune in for a few minutes every now and then to catch some commercials and write their advertisers of why I'm not going to be purchasing their products anymore.

When the positive approach doesn't work, it's time to hit the polar opposite.

"You're either in or you're out, and I'm playing to the in."—Greg Dulli. Catch The Twilight Singers on the second leg of their 2006 tour. Details at thetwilightsingers.com

WOLFEN68

Friday, September 22, 2006 5:45 PM

I see that a "Browncoat" shirt is one of the licensed "official merchandise" T-Shirts available. Does that mean the term "Browncoat" is included in this action?

SPACELIPS

Friday, September 22, 2006 5:58 PM

Although it comes off as being petty. They not only have the right to protect their copyrights, they have a legal obligation to those that have secured a license. As fans we have to start realising we are not entitled to another's labor.

HEROUVCANTON

Saturday, September 23, 2006 7:33 PM

I already have a few of Alex's shirts. Have the fighting elves and the BlueSun shirts. Just ordered replacements for those and a couple more. He needs to know we appreciate his Browncoat work ethic and craftsmanship! Let's get these while we can (and our $ won't go to Fox!!)

....if wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak...

DHOFFRYNN

Sunday, September 24, 2006 10:09 PM

(bump)

postholer--for digging holes...for posts

CITIZEN

Sunday, September 24, 2006 10:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Spacelips:
Although it comes off as being petty. They not only have the right to protect their copyrights, they have a legal obligation to those that have secured a license. As fans we have to start realising we are not entitled to another's labor.

Strange, since copyright law was originally used to profit from other peoples labour...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

ANTISTRUCTURE

Thursday, September 28, 2006 6:25 AM

BROWNCOAT1

Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:25 AM

It is sad to see such a great site and a great browncoat brought low by Fox. Alex's shirts were a big help in promoting the show and then the movie.

Guess we will have to go to other less visible sights to get our FF shirts.

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

HANS

Thursday, September 28, 2006 5:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

I know people here love tobash Fox, I'm not above it myself, but try to remember they're not doing it to actively hurt Firefly fans. They are a business, and they do things that make business sense. If someone were selling Strange Luck or Dark Angel bootleg shirts, you can bet Fox would be on them, too. For that matter, try selling some bootleg Serenity shirts, and I'm sure Universal will come knocking pretty quick.

Quoted for truth. The unfortunate fact is, if it comes to the attention of Fox that someone is using their copyrighted images for profit, they have to act on it. If they let someone get away with it, they are implicitly giving permission for others to do the same, and that gets them in a whole lot of trouble. They might not be able to defend their copyright in the future because a precendent has been set.

I'm not saying I'm pleased when I see lawyers going after the little guys, and I would like to see Fox actually use the copyright themselves: at least to sell their own t-shirts, if not to make a new series. The only thing the little guys can hope for is to remain small enough that you are below the lawyer's radar. It's just too bad that bluesunshirts came under their icy gaze...

I also see a difference between Fox going after someone making money, and Fox going after nonprofit fan sites or fan products. If they were sending cease and desist letters to fanfic writers, I'd be furious. However, the folks at bluesunshirts are charging money for their product, and I'm sure they are not sending a portion of their profits to Fox. I don't feel all that sorry for them.

(Which is not to imply that they are the villians in this story - I doubt they were getting rich selling Blue Sun shirts.)

Copyright law exists for a reason. Firefly would never have been made if Fox had not been willing to pay for it. There's no doubt that they treated the show poorly, but that doesn't change the fact that they "own" it.

INDEPENDENTBROWNCOAT

Friday, September 29, 2006 12:37 AM

While the legalese about the "C&D" is certainly true...it still certainly sux bigtime!

I'm new to Firefly (yeah, what can I say??) saw how much enjoyment Browncoats were having at DragonCon...bought the series, the movie, now my 16 yr old son and I love it!!

I'm doing a Browncoat, Mal's pistol, holster, etc. Jayne's LeMat (all metal)Working on his outfit as well.
My boy will be doing a Browncoat also.
got a Blue Sun tshirt last week (great service!) just ordered a Fighting Elves and Blue Sun black bb cap to show support.

I'm Bountys Hunted on the RPF-

-Rex

Gotta love Jayne's LeMat- Or, how I've named it-
JCF-1DSO JayneCobbFirefly-1DamnSeasonOnly !!!
Can't get enough Firefly props!!

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Friday, September 29, 2006 12:26 PM

I'm wondering if, because actual licensed "Blue Sun shirts" exist now, that FOX simply went to buy up all the .com/.org/.everything as companies are doing nowadays and BlueSunShirts.com, of course, came up as owned by someone else. I reckon that if his site had been called BSShirts or BleuSolShirts, or something more subtle or less significant, he may have never even made the radar. I think the name got him busted moreso than the products he sells. A shame nonetheless.

Just food for thought.

Keep Flyin'!

BWAH!
TCM

http://www.cafepress.com/10thcrew

*Download my Firefly Games for FREE at
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=13&t=12622
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In or near Ohio? Join us!
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly-ohio

CALLMESERENITY

Friday, September 29, 2006 12:55 PM

It is a shame! Whenever a new Browncoat came around looking for merchandise, the first place you'd send them was bluesunshirts.com.

I just ordered a couple shirts.

We'll miss your site, Alex! Stay shiny and don't let FOX get you down.

Serenity,
President of The Juggled Gosling Chatroom
Bride8

http://callmeserenity.livejournal.com/

DARKJESTER

Sunday, October 1, 2006 4:09 AM

I have two of Alex's shirts from over a year ago, and they are holding up fantastically! I just ordered a black Blue Sun shirt and a Troublemaker shirt. Sorry to hear about the crackdown.

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast

ASORTAFAIRYTALE

Sunday, October 1, 2006 4:18 AM

Okay, I just have to add that if Fox wanted to make money off of Firefly/Serenity stuff, then they shouldn't have cancelled it!!!!!! That's all there is to it...they got rid of it 'cause they didn't want it, so they shouldn't be able to just change their mind! Anyways, do they really own the copyrights to it? I thought that Universal or someone got 'em.

------

"The answers we find are never what we had in mind."

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, October 1, 2006 4:35 AM

As I've posted several times before.... FOX is the cure for happiness.

After buying seasons 1 and 2 of Arrested Development, they didn't even give the 3rd season a chance (even though they brought in Oscar Winner Charlize Theron and Scott Baio). They ran it against impossibly tough competiton (American Idol, if I'm not mistaken) and then blitzed all of the remaining episodes on one night to make room for Prison Break the next week.

If FOX is going to make more episodes of Firefly then by all means cause some about it, but if not then FOX can go to hell.

It's time to shit or get off the pot FOX!

Edit: I didn't see any feds raiding the local flea markets when the illegals were selling bootleg Chicago Bulls Championship shirts and hats back when I was a kid. Like gun ownership in America, the only people that are ever penalized are the law abiding, tax paying citizens.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, October 1, 2006 5:05 AM

I just bought a shirt off of bluesunshirts.com. I never paid for my copy of Firefly as it was a gift so now I've given more to the Browncoats than I have to the Alliance.... AHEM... I mean FOX. I will continue to burn copies of Firefly for anyone who wants them* and I encourage everyone to do the same.

* I burn for people I know personally, please, don't ask me if I only know you online. No offence... but you could be a FED. Besides... you can just download BitLord and use it to download the show from mininova.org or torrentspy.com or one of the other fine establishments that fight injustices like what we're witnissing here.

THEY CANNOT COPYRIGHT INNOVATION AND CREATIVITY!

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

PURPLEPEBBLE

Sunday, October 1, 2006 10:41 AM

This is the saddist news i have heard for a long time, I now fear for all the other shiney sites out there i visit.

We hold our breath for fox to be reasonable, and they just kill us off!

How can such evil once of spawned such geniuse?

this is a sad day.

~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~
"Why did you leave?".... "Why didn't you ask me not too?"

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, October 1, 2006 11:24 AM

They only can do it because they have us running scared of their lawyers and the consequences that their money or our lack therof can bring upon us, wreaking havock on security and stability and all of the other things we have taken for granted....

The internet... the last bastion of true freedom in the world, is systematically being shut down, one lawsuit at a time.

There is a civil war at hand. One day, and I do believe it will be while I'm alive, the sleeping giant will have had its toes stepped on one to many times, and will rain fury upon the aristocrats and politicians. When all races and colors and religions can agree to be different and truly embrace each other without the false crutch of political correctness, we will rise against and be a force the world has never before seen. And on that day, there won't be a lawyer in the world who can stop us.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

HEROUVCANTON

Sunday, October 1, 2006 11:48 AM

uhhh....are we still talkin' about Tshirts?

GRIZWALD

Sunday, October 1, 2006 11:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I will continue to burn copies of Firefly for anyone who wants them* and I encourage everyone to do the same.

Oh now, that sucks! That ticks me off to no end. How can you possibly equate what you are doing with what the fansites and others (like BSS.com) are doing?

Not that anything I am saying here is likely to convince you, but shouldn't it just take knowing you're stealing royalties from the BDHs themselves every time you do this?

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

___________________________________________________
High Priestess of Pork and Ag-Related Activities of the MYTHICAL LAND OF IOWA

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

MYCROFTXXX

Sunday, October 1, 2006 12:54 PM

Here's a scary thought. What if they don't stop at merchants of Firefly stuff? This web site, for instance, _could_ be served a C&D from F** unless the webmaster has already obtained a license to use images from the show.

I know a lot about this as I was a computer book editor and author which required me to request permission from software vendors (yes, even computer programs are covered by copyrights.)

As mentioned before, if a company does not defend their intellectual property, that's the proper name of this sort of thing, they pass their property into the public domain.

This isn't unlike a homeowner that let's a neigbor build a fence over a corner of their property. If they don't make an effort to have the neighbor move it then after a certain amount of time that property becomes their neighbor's (I had this happen to me in Florida.)

As much as I hate to say it, F** is correct. I expect Universal to do the same shortly.

EDIT: I just had a thought. If Firefly is a "dead" franchise despite the continued sales of the DVD set, maybe this is the first sign of activity by F** to resurrect the show. I'm an "up person" (don't ask my co-workers though) so I can only hope!

--

Given a choice between the earth-that-is and the 'verse-that-will-be I'll take the latter.

宁静

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, October 1, 2006 12:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grizwald:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I will continue to burn copies of Firefly for anyone who wants them* and I encourage everyone to do the same.

Oh now, that sucks! That ticks me off to no end. How can you possibly equate what you are doing with what the fansites and others (like BSS.com) are doing?

Not that anything I am saying here is likely to convince you, but shouldn't it just take knowing you're stealing royalties from the BDHs themselves every time you do this?

I agree with you 100%. I also earlier posted that if they liked it then they should buy it and show their support for Firefly, and I also mentioned that Joss should start his own network and have webcast episodes that the fans pay for, without advertising and without middlemen like FOX.... of course, as this smaller example points out, FOX would never allow that even though they obviously hated the show or what it stood for by the unprescedented careless way that they aired the episodes and destroyed the show. This show belongs to us, not FOX. One could argue that you're taking food out of the BDH's mouths by selling merchandise, such as shirts, on your own website too, if you weren't giving them royalties, which they apparently aren't being paid out or we wouldn't be writing this blog now. I don't believe Joss wouldn't let that happen if he didn't have to answer to greedy corporate pigs that are only concerned about the bottom line and how much of a bonus they're getting this year.

The wrong people are getting paid for this, and with the internet, they are antiquated and unnecessary. They realize this and that's what they're afraid of, and that's why there are all the lawsuits or threats therof today. They want to limit our ability to evolve and become part of the project ourselves, thereby eliminating the need for advertising to permiate everything around us, and more importantly, their own bloated and undiserved salaries.

Sorry to piss you off... thems the breaks.

width=150 height=200> "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

WHOISRIVER

Sunday, October 1, 2006 8:06 PM

Quote:
This show belongs to us, not FOX.

Firefly is the property of 20th Century Fox. It does not belong to us. It's that simple.

In an ideal world, yes, Joss would producing media which he owns himself, but the reality is he doesn't do this. If Joss returns to TV, it has to be with Fox.

The reason Firefly exists is because of 20th Century Fox. The reason Buffy and Angel exist is because of 20th Century Fox. The reason Joss is a multi millionaire is also to do with Fox - aside from anything, they paid him.

Companies like Fox wouldn't be turning over the kind of money they do if they were giving shows away.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, October 1, 2006 10:45 PM

And that's satisfactory to you, even though FOX treats Firefly and Joss like abused stepchildren.....

It sounds to me like it's time for copyright laws to be rewritten.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

WHOISRIVER

Sunday, October 1, 2006 11:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
And that's satisfactory to you, even though FOX treats Firefly and Joss like abused stepchildren.....

Well, in fairness, FOX Broadcasting Corp (the network) and 20th Century Fox (the studio) are two different things. It was really FOX (the network) which didn't have a clue, and they aren't the ones who hold the copyright.

And I wouldn't call failure to market a show the same as child abuse. Well, not generally.

Copyright laws themselves aren't generally a problem, although over zealous corporations enforcing them can be.

At the end of the day, BlueSunShirts.com was making a profit from a show which 20th Century Fox own (and have legally sold the Tshirt license for). They can't moan too much.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, October 2, 2006 12:10 AM

I can't believe the cavalier attitude that the proles take regarding putting a copyright stamp on creativity. Copyrights, when originally enforced, would expire. They were originally set up so somebody who created something would get their dues for it and then it would become public domain for others to shape and mold into the visions they had. And this, was a good thing. This was the age of experimentation and creativity of yesterday.

Today, copyrights are made forever, minus one day... whatever that means. Copyright holders (the ones with money) own rights to anything that we see or experience on TV or in the media in general today, while the people (the ones without money) are forced fed the garbage and if something they do like comes along, they have no control over it and they are forced to sit back and watch its premature demise, if that's what the powers that be desire.

Even the News (or the possibility of truth), it seems, is not immune to this copyright "protection". Recently Bill Clinton embarrassed FOX news during an interview and many people embedded the YouTube video of it in their Myspace profiles. (I personally would rather watch FOX News than CNN, as CNN is a bit too Communistic for my taste. This is not a FOX News bashing session from a loyal CNN enthusiast). These MySpace users were given cease and desist orders from FOX telling them to take the videos off of their sites or else legal actions would be taken against them. Try to find the video now. It was news... It was reported... nobody will remember it 5 years from now though because it has been all but wiped out of existance by the Ministry of Truth. Where is CNN now? Why aren't they reporting this... It would seem a prime oppurtunity to sling some rocks at FOX, but they can't for the very same reason people cannot show it: FOX owns the copyrights to that news and can decide if it even happened or not. One day, it may be a violation of copyrights for me to even talk about it, let alone show it.

I understand that there are legal blockades set in place now, but for sanity's sake, show a little outrage... or at the very least, some dismay about the slow death of creative thought, and OUR show. You sound like a robot when you spew your indoctrinated, Alliance rhetoric to me about copyrights. These laws are only blockades, and if the people should decide they are unnessary, they can be removed. If you wake up one day and freedom of speech has been sued out of existance, realize that it is your current way of thinking that has willingly allowed it to happen in the first place.

And regarding your quote "And I wouldn't call failure to market a show the same as child abuse. Well, not generally." You and I both know that this wasn't failure to market a show. This was either gross negligence and imcopentence, or there was a strong motive for somebody to bury this show... perhaps pressure from members of a certain administration who just so happens to be very Alliance minded. Never in history had a show been so abused.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

MYCROFTXXX

Monday, October 2, 2006 4:40 PM

As someone who holds several copyrights I can tell you that if you wrote a book, developed a show, or whatever and someone else profited from your original work you would not be very happy.

To answer the question about CNN, their hands are not tied when reporting the news. There is a clause in the copyright law called "fair use" where something that is newsworthy or is part of free speech you have limited right to use the material in some form. Mind you not all of the content.

As far as how long a copyright lasts I don't believe it is "forever" as stated. I could be wrong but I think it is 50 years after the principle holder of the copyright dies. I'm not sure how that works for corporations but I know I don't get to own it nor my heirs after that period of time. This is proven by the status of books by HG Wells and others that have passed into the public domain.

As much as we hate the situation, Fox (or Paramount, Universal, MCA, New York Times, Chicago Tribute, Nine Inch Nails, etc.) have final say how they use or license their intellectual property.

On a related note, I have noticed the licensed versions of Firefly/Serenity merchandise on other websites isn't any more expensive than that offered on Bluesunshirts.com or most of the cafepress-based products. Maybe Fox's licensing isn't that expensive.

--

Given a choice between the earth-that-is and the 'verse-that-will-be I'll take the latter.

宁静

WOLFEN68

Monday, October 2, 2006 5:06 PM

To 6ixstringjack:

It's a personal moral decision to copy movies/music. However, copying something that is so obviously excellent (and yet on the ropes), is a crime to this community. This show needs our support for any hope of continuation.

I've been buying copies for everyone as gifts and doing what I can to keep the stakes high for the copyright owners....in the hope that something "Firefly" will continue...c'mon movie #2 at least!

Than people like you undermine that effort. If I were you, I'd be ashamed to post here.

WHOISRIVER

Monday, October 2, 2006 8:32 PM

Quote:

I understand that there are legal blockades set in place now, but for sanity's sake, show a little outrage... or at the very least, some dismay about the slow death of creative thought, and OUR show.

I'm not going to show outrage, because I don't agree with you. It's that simple.

Firefly would *NOT* exist if the current copyright environment didn't exist, and Serenity would also *NOT* exist (Universal Licensing LLC bought the license from 20th Century Fox for the motion picture).

So, before I go tearing down that wall, I'm going to consider that. Do I consider fan websites getting C&Ds a bad thing? YES. Do I consider FOX enforcing their license sales for Firefly a bad thing? No.

It's not copyright law, overall, which is a problem.

I've no idea what an Alliance rhetroic for copyright is, especially since the Alliance is a fictional story device in Firefly. I can say this - I worked on the promotion for the movie, and none of you would be here if it wasn't for the corporate structure which exists around the shows.

What was part of the reason Universal went after Serenity as a movie so aggressively? The Firefly DVD sales. Is copying the series as a protest against copyright going to say 'Hey, there's an audience for this!'? Uhm, no.

Of course, I'm not saying corporations are all good things. Because they're not. They're, uhm, neccessary.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, October 3, 2006 3:00 AM

Wrong, wrong, wrong.... Who can change the minds of the indoctrinated?

I don't own copied versions of Firefly or Serenity. I copy them for friends to watch and leave the decision up to them if they want to buy it, which one has, and I've discussed this on another post. This is one more sale that wouldn't have been made if they didn't watch the copies I made for them.

I hear that Paris Hilton is trying to copyright the phrase "That's Hot".... and she'll probably get it. In 1989, Pat Riley trademarked the phrase "Three-peat" for commercial use and was able to collect royalties when the Bulls Threepeated in 1993. I realize that Threepeat is not a word, but this is just rediculous. How far do you propose we let this copyright BS go?

Careful.... One day you'll wake up and we'll all be talking Newspeak because thinking words have all been copyrighted and that would be double plus ungood.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

JAYNESBOWIE

Tuesday, October 3, 2006 4:40 AM

Ahhhh, I don't mean to be rude or anything, but since when have smuggling hot goods and underground dealings been against brown coat beliefs? I mean, that is what the crew DOES for a living aint tit?

Jayne: "Testing, testing. Captain, can you hear me?"
Mal: "I'm standing right here."
Jayne: "You're coming through good and loud."
Mal: " 'Cause I'm standing right here."

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, October 3, 2006 4:50 AM

Hey JaynesBowie.... Thank you so much for that. It's something that I've been tempted to say each time I've posted on this and other threads about it, but I decided against it. I thought I was swimming in a sea of Alliance types. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that.

I'm all about spreading the signal, but the powers that be didn't properly market the show or the BDM. So if my means of spreading it are deemed unethical by the standards of the Alliance, well they can kiss my butt. I would think that the chance of making some potential buyers out of people who would normally not watch Sci-Fi channel by giving them a few burned DVD's is better than the zero chance otherwise. And then there's always the potential for those to spread the signal even further. Viral marketing is what I believe they're calling it now.

Sorry I can't afford to buy a TV series or movie for every friend I have. I don't make the big bucks and I refuse to be one of the millions of idiot Americans who are up to their eyeballs needless credit card debt for doing stupid things like buying DVD's they cannot afford. I've bought my copies and that's what matters. Now it's up to me to spread the signal in any way that I can, and this is the only means by which I have. I know I'm not the only one.

And I dare anyone of you to look at yourselves in the mirror and have the nerve to call yourselves righteous. You're all liars and scammers at some point in your lives to some degree. It's human nature. Judge not, lest thee be judged.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

DRAGONESS

Tuesday, October 3, 2006 3:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Copyright law is the worst sin against mankind.

I have to disagree with you there. Just because somebody uses the law in a way that you don't like doesn't make it wrong.

I'm a graphic designer. Without the protection of copyright law, I'd be starving to death. Even though I completely loathe FOX, I believe so strongly in the protection of intellectual properties that I will defend even FOX in their right to take action against violators.

That said, I think they're total morons for simply trying to wipe out sites that are using their product. First of all, it's impossible to find and eliminate every single violation. Second, they could have their cake and eat it, too, if they would just negotiate a license with BlueSunShirts. That way, Fox gets to regulate the use of their property AND gets their proper cut of the asking price. Plus, they don't have to deal with putting together a distribution system, because it's already in place. And the fans get what they want as well.

But who ever accuse FOX of being smart?

Dragoness

WOLFEN68

Tuesday, October 3, 2006 5:22 PM

6ixstringjack:

I have to assure you that I don't count myself among the ranks of the righteous.

I'm to the extreme in my dislike for DRM and the erosion of fair use rights. If I bought a DVD, how come I can't make a copy for my sister if she's immediate family? When I was a kid, me and friends would all chip in for one music LP, than make copies on cassette tape for each of us to listen to.

At that time, it never occurred to any of us that this would be considered wrong by anybody...after all, why did they sell blank tapes?

In the case of Firefly, my thinking is a little different because I'm so avidly "into it" and hopeful there could be....something...more. In this case, I've worked hard to spread the signal and show the powers-that-be that there is money in this franchise.

SLGN

Wednesday, October 4, 2006 4:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mycroftxxx:
As far as how long a copyright lasts I don't believe it is "forever" as stated. I could be wrong but I think it is 50 years after the principle holder of the copyright dies. I'm not sure how that works for corporations...

When it is an individual who holds the copyright, it is X years (50?) from that person's death. As I understand it copyright, in this case a work for hire, is 75 years from date of publication or 100 years from creation, whichever is shorter.

______________________________________
Got Scape? Farscape now in syndication http://www.farwhat.com/

DRAGONESS

Wednesday, October 4, 2006 10:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by slgn:
Quote:
Originally posted by mycroftxxx:
As far as how long a copyright lasts I don't believe it is "forever" as stated. I could be wrong but I think it is 50 years after the principle holder of the copyright dies. I'm not sure how that works for corporations...
When it is an individual who holds the copyright, it is X years (50?) from that person's death. As I understand it copyright, in this case a work for hire, is 75 years from date of publication or 100 years from creation, whichever is shorter.

Copyright can also be renewed by the current copyright holder.

ASORTAFAIRYTALE

Thursday, October 5, 2006 11:05 PM

Okay, I just have to add this:

------

"The answers we find are never what we had in mind."

FLATTOP

Friday, October 20, 2006 11:36 AM

Anyone know where BlueSunShirts is meatspace located? Just a country would be fine. I ordered a few shirts before they closed (closed Oct. 8) and have been waiting not so patiently for them to arrive...

----------
Do you know what your sin is Captain?
Aww hell, I'm a big fan of all seven.

LAUGHINGMUSE

Friday, October 27, 2006 1:43 AM

I ordered two shirts from them on October 6th. I just received both today. The shirts are fine - but it did take this long for the shirts to reach me. I'm on the west coast and the envelope's return address was in Texas USA.

Have a little more patience, FlatTop - your shirts will probably show up tomorrow.

---------------------------------
Mankind makes tools; we use them to augment our hands, arms and legs.
The computer augments the brain and this makes it very unpopular with totalitarians. - Charles J.C. Lyall

DREAMWALKER

Friday, October 27, 2006 3:17 AM

You know someone really needs to explain to the Fox execs the meaning of the words losing gracefully. As in just because they f***ed up royally and have just now realized it there's no point in being petty. Which is what this is all about. They messed up, and now that they've found out that alot of people actually love the BDS and the BDM and are willing to buy merchandise from both and they want to make the money from it. And unfortunately although they are small brained morons, they are small brained morons with copyright laws in their favor. Which sucks for us because I seriously doubt that Fox's goal (after shutting down all of these places) is to market their own Firefly merchandise.

Sorry bout the rant. I spent a long day at work dealing with stupid people, and now I'm seeing there are even stupider people out there. I mean I already knew the Fox execs were idiots but this is a whole new level of stupidity.

"You're talking to Serenity. And Early...Serenity is very unhappy."

BROWNCOAT555

Friday, October 27, 2006 10:34 AM

While I'm not crazy about these crackdowns on Firefly/Serenity fandom merchandise, I think it does actually suggest that the Suits now know the commercial potential of the franchise and want to tap in.

It ultimately suggests that the franchise is certainly not dead.