Will the Next Election Be Hacked?

POSTED BY: FutureMrsFIllion
UPDATED: Friday, September 6, 2024 03:28
VIEWED: 11053
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FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, September 22, 2006 3:28 PM (P)

I submit this for your reading pleasure.

Will the Next Election Be Hacked?
By Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Rolling Stone

Thursday 05 October 2006 Issue

Fresh disasters at the polls - and new evidence from an industry insider - prove that electronic voting machines can't be trusted.

Read Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s "Was the 2004 Election Stolen?" in the June 15th, 2006, issue of "Rolling Stone," his investigation into how Republicans prevented more than 350,000 voters in Ohio from casting ballots or having their votes counted - enough to have put John Kerry in the White House.
The debacle of the 2000 presidential election made it all too apparent to most Americans that our electoral system is broken. And private-sector entrepreneurs were quick to offer a fix: Touch-screen voting machines, promised the industry and its lobbyists, would make voting as easy and reliable as withdrawing cash from an ATM. Congress, always ready with funds for needy industries, swiftly authorized $3.9 billion to upgrade the nation's election systems - with much of the money devoted to installing electronic voting machines in each of America's 180,000 precincts. But as midterm elections approach this November, electronic voting machines are making things worse instead of better. Studies have demonstrated that hackers can easily rig the technology to fix an election - and across the country this year, faulty equipment and lax security have repeatedly undermined election primaries. In Tarrant County, Texas, electronic machines counted some ballots as many as six times, recording 100,000 more votes than were actually cast. In San Diego, poll workers took machines home for unsupervised "sleepovers" before the vote, leaving the equipment vulnerable to tampering. And in Ohio - where, as I recently reported in "Was the 2004 Election Stolen?" [RS 1002], dirty tricks may have cost John Kerry the presidency - a government report uncovered large and unexplained discrepancies in vote totals recorded by machines in Cuyahoga County.

Even worse, many electronic machines don't produce a paper record that can be recounted when equipment malfunctions - an omission that practically invites malicious tampering. "Every board of election has staff members with the technological ability to fix an election," Ion Sancho, an election supervisor in Leon County, Florida, told me. "Even one corrupt staffer can throw an election. Without paper records, it could happen under my nose and there is no way I'd ever find out about it. With a few key people in the right places, it would be possible to throw a presidential election."

Chris Hood remembers the day in August 2002 that he began to question what was really going on in Georgia. An African-American whose parents fought for voting rights in the South during the 1960s, Hood was proud to be working as a consultant for Diebold Election Systems, helping the company promote its new electronic voting machines. During the presidential election two years earlier, more than 94,000 paper ballots had gone uncounted in Georgia - almost double the national average - and Secretary of State Cathy Cox was under pressure to make sure every vote was recorded properly.

Hood had been present in May 2002, when officials with Cox's office signed a contract with Diebold - paying the company a record $54 million to install 19,000 electronic voting machines across the state. At a restaurant inside Atlanta's Marriott Hotel, he noticed the firm's CEO, Walden O'Dell, checking Diebold's stock price on a laptop computer every five minutes, waiting for a bounce from the announcement.

Hood wondered why Diebold, the world's third-largest seller of ATMs, had been awarded the contract. The company had barely completed its acquisition of Global Election Systems, a voting-machine firm that owned the technology Diebold was promising to sell Georgia. And its bid was the highest among nine competing vendors. Whispers within the company hinted that a fix was in.

"The Diebold executives had a ne

GEEZER

Friday, September 22, 2006 3:52 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
...The right to vote is simply too important - and too hard won - to be surrendered without a fight. It is time for Americans to reclaim our democracy from private interests.

I agree. And when we validate the voting process we should validate the voters too. Let's require valid photo I.D. and proof of citizenship from all voters.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

RIGHTEOUS9

Friday, September 22, 2006 3:59 PM (P)

Problem with your post GEEZER is that as far as I know, there has been no evidence of massive voter fraud. There's a lot of evidence of election fraud.

Id's for voting are essentially a poll tax. You can argue that people are supposed to have one by law anyway, but for poor people, who don't have the extra 10 or 15 bucks it takes to get an I.D. card, if they don't have one they simply won't vote. That's a chilling effect on our election turn-out and not one that a purported democracy should be advocating.

SPACELIPS

Friday, September 22, 2006 4:00 PM (P)

If every voter had to be validated it would be a Republican landslide every four years. And besides, voting is simply way too important to make sure that all ballots casted are from citizens.

Make a free voter card. Last I checked my SS card was free, and I've lost that about a millon times.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, September 22, 2006 4:28 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
Problem with your post GEEZER is that as far as I know, there has been no evidence of massive voter fraud. There's a lot of evidence of election fraud.

Id's for voting are essentially a poll tax. You can argue that people are supposed to have one by law anyway, but for poor people, who don't have the extra 10 or 15 bucks it takes to get an I.D. card, if they don't have one they simply won't vote. That's a chilling effect on our election turn-out and not one that a purported democracy should be advocating.

Hmmm. I have to show a valid picture ID as well as my voter registration receipt to vote. I have no problem with it. The right to vote is a right given only to citizens over the age of 18. Proving that you are both is not an encumbrance. Also, all the poor people I know, have to have a picture ID to cash/apply for their Wic and Welfare and food stamps - so I am afraid I disagree. Having to prove who you are is not undemocratic if everyone has to do it.

----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

RUE

Friday, September 22, 2006 4:44 PM (P)

It's FAR too late in the election cycle to insist on this now. How about a 5 year lead time?

But I agree with righteous. There is NO evidence of massive voter fraud. That's a republican decoy. There IS evidence of massive election fraud.

What do YOU all propose to do about it?

FELLOWTRAVELER

Friday, September 22, 2006 4:46 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
It's FAR too late in the election cycle to insist on this now. How about a 5 year lead time?

But I agree with righteous. There is NO evidence of massive voter fraud. That's a republican decoy. There IS evidence of massive election fraud.

What do YOU all propose to do about it?

Bloody coup?

RIGHTEOUS9

Friday, September 22, 2006 4:59 PM (P)

Right Spacelips... you make such a convincing argument...

all those "damned illegals that couldn't give a shit about our country - who only come here to take advantage of the privilages we fought for and then take their money and run",(did I get this right so far?)

are going to take time out of their day to then go vote in our election? Makes perfect sense to me.

SPACELIPS

Friday, September 22, 2006 5:24 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
It's FAR too late in the election cycle to insist on this now. How about a 5 year lead time?

But I agree with righteous. There is NO evidence of massive voter fraud. That's a republican decoy. There IS evidence of massive election fraud.

What do YOU all propose to do about it?

Wow that's news to..er..reality. Most states have not even tried to tackle this issue, and for those that have the results have been unbelievable. When Arizona passed prop 200 in 2000 they found up to 60% of voters were illegal(Prima county), when Sanchez won his house seat in California investigators found "concrete evidence" of 700+ votes cast by non-citizens, There are hundreds of cases of real evidence about this. The case for "NO" evidence is foolish and dishonest at best, and the problem is far more than GOP hype. Has this board always been so full of untrue blanket statements that people let slide?

RIGHTEOUS9

Friday, September 22, 2006 5:38 PM (P)

Hehe...so in all of google all I have for prima county voter fraud are freerepublic links and one to Hannity.

That's your hard evidence?

oh here.

http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/starmedia/43645

Graf - the guy arguing for the prop said that there were at least 3 or 4 cases of voter fraud in the county

RUE

Friday, September 22, 2006 5:41 PM (P)

I said MASSIVE.

MILLIONS of LEGAL voters were dropped off the rolls in the last 2 election cycles. MILLIONS more had their votes spoiled. Roughly 3 MILLION total voters in the last election cycle, mostly democrats, were denied their vote.

"... the problem is far more than GOP hype. Has this board always been so full of untrue blanket statements that people let slide?" Not until your post.

So, what do YOU intend to do about MASSIVE election fraud that denies MILLIONS of legal voters their vote?

HERO

Friday, September 22, 2006 5:49 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
Problem with your post GEEZER is that as far as I know, there has been no evidence of massive voter fraud. There's a lot of evidence of election fraud.

Thats true. I myself only defrauded a few of my fellow Ohio'ns. And is running over a little old lady on her way into the polls to vote for kerry really a fraud? I think not.

I noticed a comment that voter IDs are another poll tax...how about if we make them free? Problem solved...

H

RUE

Friday, September 22, 2006 6:56 PM (P)

Unless you are a poor black who was born in the south at home - no birth cert, no SS#, no driver's license - none of the usually accepted IDs. In which case free = impossible.

DREAMTROVE

Friday, September 22, 2006 7:16 PM (P)

Geezer,

Good idea.

I think there's also a problem which is going to come from the other end. I think we should have a back up system, an independent citizen's record of voters and how they voted, so we can challenge any machine generated result. It would be nice to be able to say definitively "To Smith voted for McCain, even if the machine says he voted for Hillary, because we have hear on election day Tom signing his name swearing his vote was for McCain."

We have the technology to keep track of everyone and their votes, no reason to rely on massive number sums anymore, as these voting machine systems still do.

Quote:
Righteous:
There has been no evidence of massive voter fraud.

What country are you in?

Quote:
Id's for voting are essentially a poll tax.

Nonsense. IDs are IDs. we can accept anything, as long as it can be looked up in a database. How about social security numbers. You could type them in. Maybe give everyone a password.

Quote:
Spacelips:
If every voter had to be validated it would be a Republican landslide every four years.

You think democrats cheat that much? I know they have a problem with dead people voting, but I don't credit this claim.

Quote:
Rue:
It's FAR too late in the election cycle to insist on this now. How about a 5 year lead time?

How about 2 or 3? We ought to be able to straighten this out for 2008.

Quote:
Rue:
But I agree with righteous. There is NO evidence of massive voter fraud. That's a republican decoy. There IS evidence of massive election fraud.

Rue,

There is voter fraud, on both sides. In Ohio in 2004 some white woman, a republican, went into her primarily black democrat precinct, and went into one booth, claimed the machine was broken, and then they let her go into the other booth. She was able to break both machines, shutting down voting for that precinct, thus killing several hundred democrat votes.

It happens on both sides, and all over the place.

GEEZER

Friday, September 22, 2006 7:33 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Unless you are a poor black who was born in the south at home - no birth cert, no SS#, no driver's license - none of the usually accepted IDs. In which case free = impossible.

Let the Government pay for verifying citizenship then. There are legal steps which can be taken to do this in situations where there is no paper trail. This would also help such a person get SSA benefits, Medicare, etc., so it's a win-win.

C'mon. You're willing to spend multi-millions to completely revamp the process of casting ballots, based on allegations, most of which have never made it to the judicial system, but aren't willing to spend a bit of the taxpayer's money to verify that the people voting actually have the legal right to vote?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

RUE

Friday, September 22, 2006 7:47 PM (P)

Quote:
You're willing to spend multi-millions to completely revamp the process of casting ballots ... but aren't willing to spend a bit of the taxpayer's money to verify that the people voting actually have the legal right to vote?

You've got me all wrong. Talk about mis-representing the argument.

You say I'm willing to spend millions to install new voting machines. I never wanted or even approved of new machines. And I've said that what's been put in place is a travesty. That was Bush and buds who wanted it, pushed it, and did it. As far as I'm concerned, paper ballots and wooden boxes are just fine, as long as they work.

And I think BILLIONS should be spent on verifying voter ID and getting everyone who can vote access to vote.

SIGNYM

Friday, September 22, 2006 10:22 PM (P)

Quote:
Will the Next Election Be Hacked?

Of course it will. Why are we still talkin' about something that's been decided?

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

KANEMAN

Saturday, September 23, 2006 6:52 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
Hehe...so in all of google all I have for prima county voter fraud are freerepublic links and one to Hannity.

That's your hard evidence?

oh here.

http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/starmedia/43645

Graf - the guy arguing for the prop said that there were at least 3 or 4 cases of voter fraud in the county

http://www2.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/13/cq/sanchez.html
Google "illegal voters"
Look up the rest your self...Or don't... you don't want to know the truth. It is always easier for morons to live with their heads up their asses than to face reality when it is in direct conflict with their baseless beliefs...Well, it's true....

RIGHTEOUS9

Saturday, September 23, 2006 8:20 PM (P)

Thanks for the link Kaneman. I didn't look up the second example spacelips gave because the first one sucked so bad.

So there we are. 748 votes is the great debacle of voter fraud? Not even enough registered cases to skew a local election? Not even enough for the republican dominated congress to call foul at the time?

So there we have it. Voter fraud = red herring. Thank you for your contribution to our point, Kaneman. I always thought you more of a righty.

KANEMAN

Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:24 PM (P)

No, that is not the great debacle of voter fraud. It is the number of illegals voting in just one election in one county is what it is. And there have been many elections throughout this country that have been decided by less than that. If that is not a problem in your book, you are either an idiot, intellectually and morally dishonest, or both. I'd wager on the latter. Your posts are as transparent as air.

PIRATEJENNY

Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:33 AM (P)

Q.) will the next elections be hacked

A.) YES

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Sunday, September 24, 2006 6:22 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
for poor people, who don't have the extra 10 or 15 bucks it takes to get an I.D. card, if they don't have one they simply won't vote. That's a chilling effect on our election turn-out and not one that a purported democracy should be advocating.

Saw a piece the other day about some state where they require IDs to vote-- Federal legislation requires the state to provide voter IDs *F*R*E*E*--another one of those pesky unfunded mandates

SIGNYM

Sunday, September 24, 2006 7:02 AM (P)

There is one thing they can do to improve elections: make it a Federal holiday.

I mean, there are people that I talked to who had to run out on their lunch break in order to vote. LUNCH BREAK for crissake! And there are people who don't even get that. Combine that with the three or eight-hour waits in some places- no WONDER people had to leave before they got a chance to vote!

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

SOUPCATCHER

Sunday, September 24, 2006 7:23 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
There is one thing they can do to improve elections: make it a Federal holiday.

Or go the Oregon route: all absentee, all the time. It's worked out quite well for them.

* edited to add: As far as the original thread question... The fewer minorities who vote, the happier Republican Secretaries of State are and they have consistently done everything in their power to limit the number of eligible voters who even get a chance to cast a vote. As bad as hacking the vote, in my mind, is limiting the vote.

RIGHTEOUS9

Sunday, September 24, 2006 7:27 AM (P)

I'm happy to hear that NewoldenBrownCoat, and I hope you are right. It doesn't stay my fears though. Its only a part of the problem. It puts more control over who votes in the hands of election's boards(I assume that's who would handle the voter ids), and from the kind of corruption evidenced at that level in certain districts, that is something I don't like at all.

And all of this for the sake of tackling a problem that doesn't seem to exist. One 'major' case 10 years ago in one district that numbered in the hundreds? Kaneman,the incident was isolated and the effect nil.

I want it to be legitimate voters who vote, just like you do, but all american citizens are legitimate voters, and I think it would be a travesty if we passed legislation that convoluted the voting proccess even moreso to the point where less and less people excercised this right and responsibility because it was made too hard to act on. We're talking millions versus hundreds.

You tell me, which option is more harmful to democracy?

CITIZEN

Sunday, September 24, 2006 8:35 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
There is one thing they can do to improve elections: make it a Federal holiday.

I mean, there are people that I talked to who had to run out on their lunch break in order to vote. LUNCH BREAK for crissake! And there are people who don't even get that. Combine that with the three or eight-hour waits in some places- no WONDER people had to leave before they got a chance to vote!

How long do your voting stations stay open? Ours stay open easily long enough for people to make it after or before work.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

FELLOWTRAVELER

Sunday, September 24, 2006 1:25 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
How long do your voting stations stay open? Ours stay open easily long enough for people to make it after or before work.

It varies from state to state, but basically runs in the neighborhood of 7AM to 7PM.

PDCHARLES

Sunday, September 24, 2006 2:38 PM (P)

More from our Princeton friends and those universal Diebold keys...

http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=1064

What bothers me is that not only is the key found so common, it is 15 years old or so. Diebold: passing on the savings to the customer.

SIGNYM

Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:46 PM (P)

And, strangely, my workday is from 7 AM to 7 PM. I don't know about most other places, but in the USA the working poor often work 2 jobs and have a 2-3 hour bus commute to and from work.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:58 PM (P)

If the Dems win, we'll know the election was tampered with.

If the GOP wins, then we'll know a fair election has taken place.

The Dems bitched and moaned when, in 2000, using THEIR OWN vote counting method, (remember the butterfly ballot ? ) there was a push to automate the election proccess. Well, that's taking place, and the Dems still aren't winning. So they've resorted to, once again, attack the method. The Dems will continue to play this game of 'blame the system, not the voter' for long after they do win. It's part of the false premise they intend to build their mythology on..that being the GOP steals elections, and only Dems play by the rules. Nothing could be further from the truth.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

FELLOWTRAVELER

Sunday, September 24, 2006 4:36 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
And, strangely, my workday is from 7 AM to 7 PM. I don't know about most other places, but in the USA the working poor often work 2 jobs and have a 2-3 hour bus commute to and from work.

Come on, we don't want the poor voting...

And to add to insult to injury, the closest polling station to your work place is likely not the one where you are registered. That one is closest to your home. So, good luck making it there and back during your lunch break.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:12 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
And, strangely, my workday is from 7 AM to 7 PM. I don't know about most other places, but in the USA the working poor often work 2 jobs and have a 2-3 hour bus commute to and from work.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

Then vote absentee. You don't even have to show an I.D. Just vote and drop it in the mail. Problem solved. Contact your pricinct or party's election committee to find out details. You can choose to be proactive and do something about your situation, or you can bitch about how unfair life is and blame everyone else. The choice is up to you.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RIGHTEOUS9

Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:25 PM (P)

Well Auraptor, the butterfly ballots were bad. Pat Buchanon suggested that he got 1000's of votes he shouldn't have gotten in 2000 because of those ballots,

which means in a fair election where people know who they're voting for, the democrats would have won.

Do you have any evidence of large scale democratic vote tampering or do you like to just spew that crap to try to smear everybody?

And what kind of logic suggests that because we didn't like the last system we should take whatever system our gop government puts in place to replace it as something better.

- with no facts have you denied the validity of the claims - and so you go after them by just stamping democrats as complainers. I understand how sick to your stomach it must make you to read through post after post at freerepublic, but some sort of distorted fact would be appreciated when you're making your claims.

AURAPTOR

Monday, September 25, 2006 10:10 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
Well Auraptor, the butterfly ballots were bad. Pat Buchanon suggested that he got 1000's of votes he shouldn't have gotten in 2000 because of those ballots,

which means in a fair election where people know who they're voting for, the democrats would have won.

Do you have any evidence of large scale democratic vote tampering or do you like to just spew that crap to try to smear everybody?

And what kind of logic suggests that because we didn't like the last system we should take whatever system our gop government puts in place to replace it as something better.

- with no facts have you denied the validity of the claims - and so you go after them by just stamping democrats as complainers. I understand how sick to your stomach it must make you to read through post after post at freerepublic, but some sort of distorted fact would be appreciated when you're making your claims.

Q: How the hell would Pat Buchanan know ? On what basis does he make the claim that "1000's" of votes shouldn't have gone his way ? I'm so sick and tired of folks excusing the VOTER for not taking it upon themselves to either ask for help / and or a new ballot. Please. If you're too stupid to figure out a simple ballot, or even ASK for assistance, you don't deserve to vote!

I have the Chicago election of '60, where dead folks voted early and often for Kennedy. Had that election been 'fair', Nixon would have won, not Kennedy. But I'm over it. Can't say the same for the Dems and 2000. What pisses me off about that is all the lies and false allegations the Dems raised about blacks being kept from voting. Not a single case was verified. Not one. Yet the rumors and mythology continue on in the media as if they were true.

It isn't the 'gop gov't' which determines how votes are counted. That decission rests w/ each ELECTION BOARD. Don't blame the GOP, blame your local Democrats for any voter fiasco you think exists.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

FELLOWTRAVELER

Monday, September 25, 2006 3:06 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
...What pisses me off about that is all the lies and false allegations the Dems raised about blacks being kept from voting. Not a single case was verified. Not one.

...Don't blame the GOP, blame your local Democrats for any voter fiasco you think exists...

Good grief, you have been misinformed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File

Quote:
At first, Florida specified only exact matches on names, birthdates and genders to identify voters as felons. However, state records reveal a memo dated March 1999 from Emmett "Bucky" Mitchell, a lawyer for the state elections office who was supervising the felon purge, asking DBT to loosen its criteria for acceptable matches. When DBT representatives warned Mitchell that this would yield a large proportion of false positives (mismatches), Mitchell's reply was that it would be up to each county elections supervisor to deal with the problem.

In February 2000, in a phone conversation with the BBC's London studios, ChoicePoint vice-president James Lee said that the state "wanted there to be more names than were actually verified as being a convicted felon"

On 17 April 2001, James Lee testified, before the McKinney panel, that the state had given DBT the directive to add to the purge list people who matched at least 90% of a last name. DBT objected, knowing that this would produce a huge number of false positives (non-felons).

Lee went on saying that the state then ordered DBT to shift to an even lower threshold of 80% match, allowing also names to be reversed (thus a person named Thomas Clarence could be taken to be the same as Clarence Thomas). Besides this, middle initials were skipped, Jr. and Sr. suffixes dropped, and some nicknames and aliases were added to puff up the list.

"DBT told state officials", testified Lee, "that the rules for creating the [purge] list would mean a significant number of people who were not deceased, not registered in more than one county, or not a felon, would be included on the list. DBT made suggestions to reduce the numbers of eligible voters included on the list". According to Lee, to this suggestion the state told the company, "Forget about it".

Florida has re-cedited its felon list five times since 1998 to correct errors.

The first list DBT Online provided to the Division of Elections in April 2000 contained the names of 181,157 persons. Approximately 65,776 of those included on the first list were identified as felons.

In May 2000, DBT discovered that approximately 8,000 names were erroneously placed on the exclusion list, mostly those of former Texas prisoners who were included on a DBT list that turned out never to have been convicted of more than a misdemeanor. Later in the month, DBT provided a revised list to the Division of Elections (DOE) containing a total of 173,127 persons. Of those included on the "corrected list", 57,746 were identified as felons.

There were many specific problems with the purge list regarding the verification of felons, including over 4,000 blank conviction dates, and over 325 conviction dates dating in the future.

Nearly 3,000 out-of-state ex-felons with voting rights restored, as well as voters linked to felonies in states which do not remove felons from voting rolls or that automatically restore voting rights that were included on the list. According to a 1998 ruling by the 2nd District Court of Appeals, they cannot then be ruled ineligible by another state.

DBT had decided in March of 1999 not to include felon lists from South Carolina or Texas, which automatically restore voting rights, but that was overruled by the head of the Florida Office of Executive Clemency, Janet Keels, who ordered inclusion of any felon who did not have a written order of clemency, even from these states, wrongly placing 996 voters on the felon list. Florida did not restore their voting rights until three months after the election.

Additionally, a number of persons listed as felons had been convicted of misdemeanors only, and

RIGHTEOUS9

Monday, September 25, 2006 4:33 PM (P)

Quit spewing bullshit auraptor. It's not the democratic election boards that have been the problem.

I had to point that out to you on another thread about ohio and of course you ignored it, but at least find a new lie.

The point about Buchanon is that he got a disproportionate ammount of votes in a democratic voting area where he didn't campaign, and even he, kooky conservative that he is, was willing to see the screw-up there.

That's a lame way to judge somebody's intelligence by the way. It has no more basis than me saying anybody who voted for Bush is too incompitent to be given the right to vote.

So first you guys had to go back to 1996...now we have to go all the way back to 1960? Next you're going to be screaming about the pictograms on cave walls, that prove beyond a doubt democratic voter fraud is a problem.

KANEMAN

Monday, September 25, 2006 5:16 PM (P)

Auraptor,
Q:How the hell would Pat Buchanan know ? On what basis does he make the claim that "1000's" of votes shouldn't have gone his way ? I'm so sick and tired of folks excusing the VOTER for not taking it upon themselves to either ask for help / and or a new ballot. Please. If you're too stupid to figure out a simple ballot, or even ASK for assistance, you don't deserve to vote!

A: He wouldn't, couldn't, and doesn't know. Aren't you tired of the "voter fraud" stampede every time a Dem loses? That gang of poor losers will always blame it on the ineptitude of the process or voters, never on themselves or the unpopularity of their politics. I must go, we have a local election today. I am going down to the local church with a bus to help get out the minority vote. I'll tell them how and who to vote for on the ride to the polling station...Hey, they get free sandwiches and soda.

RUE

Monday, September 25, 2006 5:45 PM (P)

Ahhhh ... I'm satisfied. I still find no reason to call him anywhing but asswipe.

Now to get a nice shiny name for kaneman.

RUE

Monday, September 25, 2006 6:03 PM (P)

In case you are all wondering - I see no need to treat evil people well.

KANEMAN

Monday, September 25, 2006 6:05 PM (P)

CiTiZen's...Rainman was pretty clever.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, September 26, 2006 12:57 AM (P)

Quote:

Righteous9 wrote:
Monday, September 25, 2006 06:33
Quit spewing bullshit auraptor. It's not the democratic election boards that have been the problem.

I had to point that out to you on another thread about ohio and of course you ignored it, but at least find a new lie.

The point about Buchanon is that he got a disproportionate ammount of votes in a democratic voting area where he didn't campaign, and even he, kooky conservative that he is, was willing to see the screw-up there.

That's a lame way to judge somebody's intelligence by the way. It has no more basis than me saying anybody who voted for Bush is too incompitent to be given the right to vote.

So first you guys had to go back to 1996...now we have to go all the way back to 1960? Next you're going to be screaming about the pictograms on cave walls, that prove beyond a doubt democratic voter fraud is a problem.

Sorry brain donor, but you didn't do any such thing. Fact is, it IS the duty of the local election committee to fix their own problems. But, in CLASSIC liberal style, you prefer to lay the burden solving your own problems on anyone else BUT those responsible. Again, you being wrong is NOT a case of someone else 'lying'. A 3 yr old knows better, but somehow you don't.

Also, about those pin headed voters who 'claim' they really voted for Gore, but then were so suddenly sure their vote ended up being for Buchanan. So sorry Granny, but if you were that certain about your own screw up AFTER you submitted your ballot, you'd have been more awake while voting in the 1st place. Rules are printed plainly there for all to see, or if you can't read the damn thing, a poll worker will READ to you what it says. Same rules apply to everyone. You're nothing special. Tough nugggets.

There's nothing in the least bit 'lame' about using that very valid example to show the lack of intelligence for an idiot who can't follow simple directions. Even an imbecile knows enough to ask a question, HOW DO I .... , even if the task asking them to " punch hole by name of person you're voting for " is suddenly all that more daunting than it was the last time they voted.

Then there was the U.S. Civil Rights commission hearings which couldn't find one single black voter who could say that he or she was kept from the polls and denied their right to cast their vote. NOT ONE! To this very day neither Florida nor national Democrats have been able to produce one single black Floridian who was denied their opportunity to cast a legal vote during in the 2000 election. Such fairy tales and mythology by the Democrat's cries to the contrary only gave rise to Kerry's * Election Day Manuel which tells Democrats to lie - "If no signs of intimidation techniques have emerged yet, launch a 'pre-emptive strike.'" Basically telling folks to ' spread rumors of voter intimidation events which never have occurred. Just assume it's happening, because America is racist anyway, and that justifies your lying for the greater good.'

* http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc66.htm

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, September 26, 2006 1:45 AM (P)

Quote:
Well, there's your one verifiable case: Willie Steen.

Sorry, but there's still nothing about that case to suggest he wasn't allowed to vote because he was black .

Despite the specious claims by The Nation ( yeah, there's an objective source ) ....

Quote:
(My copy of Harris's (sic) list includes an ex-con named O'Steen, close enough to cost Willie Steen his vote.)

Errors and problems in the voting proceedure do not imply intent. Every state has its own problems, and Florida's wasn't any worse than any other state's.

For christ's sake...it's 2006. Turn the friggen page.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

SIGNYM

Tuesday, September 26, 2006 4:03 AM (P)

As usual Auraptor you don't know WTF you're talkin' about. (Nothing new!) The company that drew up the FLA list (which was eventually bought out by Choice Point) warned Katherine Harris by letter that the match criteria were overly broad and scooping up too many people. Harris told the company bascially damn the torpedoes, she would take the responsibility. So I think she should be charged.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

RIGHTEOUS9

Tuesday, September 26, 2006 4:24 AM (P)

Such disdain for your fellow human beings Auraptor.

I will say that I don't think you're an idiot. On the other hand, intelligent people aren't neccesarily right more often than other people, they're just a hell of a lot better at rationalizing their position to themselves, right or wrong.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't want people's actual intentions to be heard on eleciton day, and I'm not sure why it should matter whether you think a person dumb or slow or senile, when judging if a person deserves a vote on election day, unless you're an elitist of the ilk that doesn't really believe in democracy - I don't think you need to answer that.

.....

I'll point out again that the election board in Chayahoga County, where much of the alleged voter suppresion took place was Republican dominated, so please at least patch that hole in your argument if you want to continue to fly your hot air baloon in the real world.

RIGHTEOUS9

Tuesday, September 26, 2006 5:54 AM (P)

Auraptor --- the measures of that preemptive strike are clearly laid out in the manual and all have to do with protecting the voters in that election.

None of the items in the proposed press release suggest making shit up. So where's your beef? with what line? just 'preemptive strike?' hehe, how weird that that phrase would offend a Bush apologist.

Here are the items the DNC wanted to be addressed.

i. Reviewing Republican tactic [sic] issued in the past in your area or state

ii. Quoting party/minority/civil rights leadership as denouncing tactics that discourage people from voting

Prime minority leadership to discuss the issue in the media; provide talking points
Place stories in which minority leadership expresses concern about the threat of intimidation tactics

Warn local newspapers not to accept advertising that is not properly disclaimed or that contains false warnings about voting requirements and/or about what will happen at the polls

FELLOWTRAVELER

Tuesday, September 26, 2006 3:41 PM (P)

And the hits just keep on coming...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/26/us/politics/26voting.html?_r=1&ref=w
ashington&oref=slogin

"Stricter Voting Laws Carve Latest Partisan Divide"

Some interesting quotes from the story:

Quote:
Republicans say the laws are needed to combat fraud, especially among illegal immigrants. Democrats say there is minimal fraud, if any, and accuse Republicans of suppressing the votes of those least likely to have the required documentation — minorities, the poor and the elderly — who tend to vote for Democrats.

Quote:
Daniel J. Parker, chairman of the state Democratic Party, said: “Close to 10 percent of registered voters here do not have driver’s licenses. Who does that impact most? Seniors and minorities.”

Quote:
“Democrats believe they represent stupid people who are not smart enough to vote,” said Randy Pullen, a Republican national committeeman from Arizona who championed a statewide initiative on the new requirements. “I do not.”

Quote:
There is no data, however, to show more than isolated instances of so-called impostor voting by illegal immigrants or others.

Experts in election law say most voter fraud involves absentee balloting, which is unaffected by the new photo identification laws. Few people, they say, will risk a felony charge to vote illegally at the polls, and few illegal immigrants want to interact with government officials — even people running a polling place.

Quote:
Of Arizona’s 2.7 million registered voters, 238 were believed to have been noncitizens in the last 10 years; only 4 were believed to have voted; and none were impostors, plaintiffs stipulate in their lawsuit to overturn the law, statistics the state has not challenged.

Quote:
It was during a registration drive at her assisted-living center, Desert Palms, that Mrs. Steele learned she could not vote. Disabled, with a son, an Army staff sergeant, on active duty, she left Missouri recently to stay with her brother and subsequently moved into the center.

Lacking a driver’s license, she could get a new state identity card, but she said she had neither the $12 to pay for it nor, because she uses a wheelchair, the transportation to pick it up.

FELLOWTRAVELER

Tuesday, September 26, 2006 3:53 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Sorry, but there's still nothing about that case to suggest he wasn't allowed to vote because he was black.

Well, you didn't say because they were black. You said:

Quote:
What pisses me off about that is all the lies and false allegations the Dems raised about blacks being kept from voting. Not a single case was verified. Not one. Yet the rumors and mythology continue on in the media as if they were true.

You said it was false that blacks were kept from voting. They clearly were.

Quote:
Despite the specious claims by The Nation ( yeah, there's an objective source ) ....

Now, that IS a fair criticism. In that spirit, maybe you shouldn't cite The Drudge Report.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:16 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
Such disdain for your fellow human beings Auraptor.

I will say that I don't think you're an idiot. On the other hand, intelligent people aren't neccesarily right more often than other people, they're just a hell of a lot better at rationalizing their position to themselves, right or wrong.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't want people's actual intentions to be heard on eleciton day, and I'm not sure why it should matter whether you think a person dumb or slow or senile, when judging if a person deserves a vote on election day, unless you're an elitist of the ilk that doesn't really believe in democracy - I don't think you need to answer that.

.....

I'll point out again that the election board in Chayahoga County, where much of the alleged voter suppresion took place was Republican dominated, so please at least patch that hole in your argument if you want to continue to fly your hot air baloon in the real world.

What good does it do to have folks voting when they don't even know what the hell they're voting for or HOW to vote? There's a REASON why we don't let children vote, because we assume that adults will have the intellect and ability to choose on their own.

And what the hell is Cayahoga Co. have to do w/ anything ? I was talking Florida and you're talking Ohio. And there you go again, with the false premise that it was 'voter supression'. The very language you use is biased, or do you not see that ?

Quote:
Auraptor --- the measures of that preemptive strike are clearly laid out in the manual and all have to do with protecting the voters in that election.

None of the items in the proposed press release suggest making shit up. So where's your beef? with what line? just 'preemptive strike?' hehe, how weird that that phrase would offend a Bush apologist.

WRONG - It SPECIFICALLY states that voters should whip up controversy where none exists. It's poisoning the well by flatly stating voter intimidation WILL be out there, so be ready for a fight. How about ' Go to your poll, vote, go home. '. But no, the Dems can't allow for that. There MUST be civil unrest. WHY? It fits the Dems's template that America IS racists, and we're no better off now than we were in the 1920's. THAT is pattently BULLSHIT!

Quote:
Here are the items the DNC wanted to be addressed.

i. Reviewing Republican tactic issued in the past in your area or state

No mention of Democrat tactics, such as trying to convince voters in Texas that Bush's Texas was responsible for the dragging death of James Byrd, a black man. Fact is, Bush's Judicial system put to death 2 of the 3 men involved, and the 3rd man got sentenced to life in prison.

Quote:

ii. Quoting party/minority/civil rights leadership as denouncing tactics that discourage people from voting

Basically stating the the NAACP and the DNC are one in the same.

Quote:
Prime minority leadership to discuss the issue in the media; provide talking points
Place stories in which minority leadership expresses concern about the threat of intimidation tactics

There is no 'issue' here, but the ones which are being fabricated by the Dem party. These race warlords are masters at self fulfilling prophecies, because they are the ones behind the so called 'crisis'. With out a crisis, they're out of a job. THINK ABOUT IT.

Quote:
Warn local newspapers not to accept advertising that is not properly disclaimed or that contains false warnings about voting requirements and/or about what will happen at the polls

Basically try to blackmail local papers, as Jessie Jackson does with his Rainbow Push thugs.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RIGHTEOUS9

Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:24 PM (P)

Okay, if you're speaking specifically about Florida then why are you talkinga about the DNC manual? But fine, reserve my example for another day, and respond to the example SYGM gave on Florida - not interested? surprise surprise.

..........

Your smearing of the DNC as basically fabricating complaints of voter suppresion was a false premise, and way too easy to disprove. There's plenty of evidence to support voter suppresion in Ohio. If that evidence is bunk, it should be just as easy for you to disprove it.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:34 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:

Okay, if you're speaking specifically about Florida then why are you talkinga about the DNC manual? But fine, reserve my example for another day, and respond to the example SYGM gave on Florida - not interested? surprise surprise.

..........

Your smearing of the DNC as basically fabricating complaints of voter suppresion was a false premise, and way too easy to disprove. There's plenty of evidence to support voter suppresion in Ohio. If that evidence is bunk, it should be just as easy for you to disprove it.

Per Kerry's pamphlet, I was showing a pattern of deceit by the DNC.

You simply stating that there was plenty of evidencde of voter supression in Ohio doesn't make it so. You'll excuse me if I don't buy your word or that of Robert F Kennedy Jr.

Sigym gave nothing but him saying that Katherine Harris said something. No citing of a source. I won't waste my time on innuendo.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RIGHTEOUS9

Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:38 PM (P)

Verified by who?

on edit - you edited your post and took out the statement entirely...you said not a single case of voter suppresion was verified. I'm wondering who you accept as a valid source for verification.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:46 PM (P)

Oh yeah, per the silly claim that GA Sec of State Cathy Cox somehow was involved rigging the election ?

Cathy Cox is a DEMOCRAT.

And this nonsense -

Quote:
It is impossible to know whether the machines were rigged to alter the election in Georgia: Diebold's machines provided no paper trail, making a recount impossible. But the tally in Georgia that November surprised even the most seasoned political observers. Six days before the vote, polls showed Sen. Max Cleland, a decorated war veteran and Democratic incumbent, leading his Republican opponent Saxby Chambliss - darling of the Christian Coalition - by five percentage points. In the governor's race, Democrat Roy Barnes was running a decisive eleven points ahead of Republican Sonny Perdue. But on Election Day, Chambliss won with fifty-three percent of the vote, and Perdue won with fifty-one percent.

I live in GA. The voters were furious w/ Max because of his position on Homeland Security. And the teachers were equally ticked off at Roy Barnes over pay. Point is, there was great unrest w/ those 2 candidates, and the voters made their voices heard. Since then, Gov. Sonny Perdue is credited for turing around the state's poor finances which are now in the black. More tax cuts are being discussed, as there is now a surplus of revenue for the state.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

FELLOWTRAVELER

Tuesday, September 26, 2006 9:07 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Sigym gave nothing but him saying that Katherine Harris said something. No citing of a source. I won't waste my time on innuendo.

Sigym's allegations are cited in the wikipedia entry above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File

Edited to add:

Quote:
On 17 April 2001, James Lee testified, before the McKinney panel, that the state had given DBT the directive to add to the purge list people who matched at least 90% of a last name. DBT objected, knowing that this would produce a huge number of false positives (non-felons).

Lee went on saying that the state then ordered DBT to shift to an even lower threshold of 80% match, allowing also names to be reversed (thus a person named Thomas Clarence could be taken to be the same as Clarence Thomas). Besides this, middle initials were skipped, Jr. and Sr. suffixes dropped, and some nicknames and aliases were added to puff up the list.

"DBT told state officials", testified Lee, "that the rules for creating the [purge] list would mean a significant number of people who were not deceased, not registered in more than one county, or not a felon, would be included on the list. DBT made suggestions to reduce the numbers of eligible voters included on the list". According to Lee, to this suggestion the state told the company, "Forget about it".

SIGNYM

Tuesday, September 26, 2006 11:26 PM (P)

Thank you Fellow. I really didn't have time to dredge up a link, but I remembered the story in great detail. I'll add more later 'cause there was a whole lot of shit going on. Of course, since AU never pays attention to facts, links don't make any difference. Talking to him in like talking to an empty can.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 12:34 AM (P)

Quote:
Talking to him is like talking to an empty can.

Nah, he's not empty, in fact, he's quite full.
It's what he's full OF, that is the problem.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 12:39 AM (P)

Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Of course, since AU never pays attention to facts, links don't make any difference. Talking to him in like talking to an empty can.

And yet, like clockwork, you are often one of the first responders to any of Auraptor's posts. From this I must conclude that you enjoy talking to empty cans, no matter how often you bemoan the fact.

Posting to stir stuff up.

RUE

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 1:11 AM (P)

Here is you from another thread: "Now that's what I like to see, you maintaining a certain level of CIVILITY." See, there's a reason why I don't debate with ass wipe. AFAIC he's as useless as a used piece of toilet paper. The other posters in this thread, in their earnestness, tolerance and CIVILITY actually attempted to interact with him - civilly and coherently, with facts and information. And for their pains they got mocked - by you. Now maybe you see why you are working your way into a pet name.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 1:38 AM (P)

Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Here is you from another thread: "Now that's what I like to see, you maintaining a certain level of civility." See, there's a reason why I don't debate with ass wipe. AFAIC he's as useless as a used piece of toilet paper. The other posters in this thread, in their earnestness, tolerance and CIVILITY actually attempted to interact with him - civilly and coherently, with facts and information. And for their pains they got mocked - by you. Now maybe you see why you are working your way into a pet name.

Where did I mock any other posters in this thread besides a slight dig at SignyM? If Signy thinks it is useless to engage Auraptor, why continue to do it? What is the definition of someone who continually does the same thing yet expects different results? And no, I wasn't meaning an optimist.

Posting to stir stuff up.

RUE

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 1:40 AM (P)

So, being civil, in your dictionary, means you get to take digs at anyone you want, while others don't get the same latitude.

Just keep working on your new name ...

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 2:01 AM (P)

Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
So, being civil, in your dictionary, means you get to take digs at others, while others don't get the same latitude. Just keep working on your new name

By all means dig away at me, or to put it in better terms, discuss things. If you have a question regarding one of my posts or need clarification of my viewpoint, ask. Don't call me a name and then spout off about how I do not have a point because nothing comes from nothing or some such. In my dictionary being civil means to respond to a poster without the name-calling or the little quips. It dosen't, however, preclude me from voicing my opinion. Now I'm going to wait and see if Signy is as worked up over my post to her as you apparently are.

Posting to stir stuff up.

RUE

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 2:08 AM (P)

Oh I see!

I can make all the 'quips' I want, except to opine that from nothing comes nothing!

And it was part of an actual response to you (which you conveniently left out, pretending I didn't actually say anything other than my little quip) where I said:

My point was that it didn't deserve to be front-page HEADLINED when there was so much more real news to report. Now where did I say that? Oh yes, it was here: 'The ONLY story headlined in every one was "Some Liquid Restrictions Lifted"'."

-----------------------------------

So let's see. What are the rules you made up for me? I can discuss, and you can lie and say I don't. My quips are not civil, but yours are. You can opine, and I can't.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 2:46 AM (P)

I'm going out on a limb here and am assuming you are finished editing your post.

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Oh I see!

I can make all the 'quips' I want, except to opine that from nothing comes nothing!

And it was part of an actual response to you (which you conveniently left out, pretending I didn't actually say anything other than my little quip) where I said:

My point was that it didn't deserve to be front-page HEADLINED when there was so much more real news to report. Now where did I say that? Oh yes, it was here: 'The ONLY story headlined in every one was "Some Liquid Restrictions Lifted"'."

IMHO, you do not see. And I wasn't conveniently leaving anything out, the post is there for all to read.
You posted your opinion that a certain news story was not headlined for nefarious reasons. I was of the opinion that it was for economic reasons. A differing viewpoint which elicited your name calling and quip instead of a discussion. It is true that my original post to you did contain a certain amount of dry humor. A number of posters make their points that way as well but I do not see you calling them names. Perhaps because their politics are more in line with yours.

Posting to stir stuff up.

RUE

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 2:57 AM (P)

"the post is there for all to read"

Is the post in THIS thread? No, its not. Is the TOPIC anywhere in this entire thread?. No it's not. Is it there for all to read? No, it's not. If you want to debate the topic, I will happily go to the thread where it exists. Otherwise, the only debate I have here is how you call for civilty in one thread when someone not you 'quips' or 'opines' or expresses 'dry humor', but set a different, and much lower, standard for yourself here.

And about that, there is no debate.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 3:09 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Here is you from another thread: "Now that's what I like to see, you maintaining a certain level of CIVILITY." See, there's a reason why I don't debate with ass wipe. AFAIC he's as useless as a used piece of toilet paper. The other posters in this thread, in their earnestness, tolerance and CIVILITY actually attempted to interact with him - civilly and coherently, with facts and information. And for their pains they got mocked - by you. Now maybe you see why you are working your way into a pet name.

rue, I rarely even bother responding to you because you're such a pathetic and miserable imbecile, the word 'special' comes to mind. You trying to even pretend there's any civility or competency on your part is laughable. That you are reduced to Hugo Chavez like antics only goes to prove how little you have to offer.

One day you might realize that RWED is best left to the adults, and in a few years , you too might make a post worthy of a serious response.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 3:15 AM (P)

Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
"the post is there for all to read"

Is the post in THIS thread? No, its not. Is the TOPIC anywhere in this entire thread?. No it's not. Is it there for all to read? No, it's not. If you want to debate the topic, I will happily go to the thread where it exists. Otherwise, the only debate I have here is how you call for civilty in one thread when someone 'quips' or 'opines', but set a different, and much lower, standard for yourself here.

And about that, there is no debate.

Hold on there Ms. high and mighty. It was you who followed me into this thread, not the other way around. IMHO, it was you who could not keep our discussion in the relevant thread. And about that, there is no debate.

I responded to one of SignyM's posts here and you leapt into the breach in defense of your buddy. I guess that makes you the civility police.

Now was I really being uncivil to SignyM or was I merely making a point. I don't remember using any names or dismissive quips which I stated earlier as being uncivil IMHO.

Posting to stir stuff up.

RUE

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 5:39 AM (P)

Actually, I didn't move the topic to this thread to evade traceback. I made YOU the topic on this thread.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:26 PM (P)

Quote:
And yet, like clockwork, you are often one of the first responders to any of Auraptor's posts. From this I must conclude that you enjoy talking to empty cans, no matter how often you bemoan the fact.

And like clockwork you make a total fool of yourself. Well, at least you're good for entertainment!

In point of fact, I posted, and AU posted right after. From there I counted about 16 posts- many of the AU's, before I posted back. Somebody ... not sayin' who, mind you... doesn't know how to count!

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 10:56 PM (P)

Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
And like clockwork you make a total fool of yourself. Well, at least you're good for entertainment!

In point of fact, I posted, and AU posted right after. From there I counted about 16 posts- many of the AU's, before I posted back. Somebody ... not sayin' who, mind you... doesn't know how to count!

Sorry for the confusion, let me clarify.

Quote:

And yet, like clockwork, you are often one of the first responders to any of Auraptor's posts. From this I must conclude that you enjoy talking to empty cans, no matter how often you bemoan the fact.

I was speaking of multiple threads, not this one specifically. If you would like I can take the lead from Rue and scan the RWED threads to back up my claim that you are often one of the first responders to Auraptor's posts. Just give me the word and I will be happy to. I know how sticky you are regarding unsubstantiated claims.

I responded to your post in much the same way that I would try to stop a small child who continually touches a hot stove and then wonders why their hand hurts.

IMHO, respond to Auraptor all you want, just do not continue to say in the next post that it is useless. Makes me think you are simply posting to 'talk to yourself'.

And I am thrilled to hear that I entertain you. You have certainly been a source of entertainment for me on several occasions and it warms my heart to be able to reciprocate.

Posting to stir stuff up.

FELLOWTRAVELER

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 11:21 PM (P)

Still no response to those allegations about Harris and Florida, Aye? Dodge, duck, dip, dive and... dodge

And speaking of hacking the election, Kennedy is on "Hardball" tonight (9/27) discussing the Ohio allegations.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 11:31 PM (P)

Nah... the empty can is dead quiet tonight.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

FELLOWTRAVELER

Thursday, October 19, 2006 4:36 PM (P)

Quote:
AURaptor wrote:

it's poisoning the well by flatly stating voter intimidation WILL be out there, so be ready for a fight. How about ' Go to your poll, vote, go home. '. But no, the Dems can't allow for that. There MUST be civil unrest. WHY? It fits the Dems's template that America IS racists, and we're no better off now than we were in the 1920's. THAT is pattently BULLSHIT!

"AG: Voter warning linked to GOP campaign"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061019/ap_on_re_us/immigration_voting_thr
eat_6

Quote:
SANTA ANA, Calif. - State investigators have linked a Republican campaign to letters sent to thousands of Orange County Hispanics warning them they could go to jail or be deported if they vote next month, a spokesman for the attorney general said.

Oh yeah, there is nothing to those allegations of voter intimidation. Only 14,000 legal Democratic voters recieved these letters. There is nothing dirty about that, other than it being a crime...

RUE

Thursday, October 19, 2006 7:01 PM (P)

Will the Next Election Be Hacked?

Is that even a question?

FELLOWTRAVELER

Thursday, November 2, 2006 5:30 PM (P)

For those of us who give a damn, HBO is running a doc. tonight titled "Hacking Democracy" @ 9 PM.

http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/hackingdemocracy/synopsis.html

RUE

Monday, November 27, 2006 12:06 AM (P)

Voting experts say it is impossible to say how many votes were not counted that should have been. But in Florida alone, the discrepancies reported across Sarasota County and three others amount to more than 60,000 votes. In Colorado, as many as 20,000 people gave up trying to vote, election officials say, as new online systems for verifying voter registrations crashed repeatedly. And in Arkansas, election officials tallied votes three times in one county, and each time the number of ballots cast changed by more than 30,000.

Published on Sunday, November 26, 2006 by the New York Times
available at http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1126-07.htm

JAYNEZTOWN

Sunday, October 30, 2016 3:06 PM (P)

before we can accuse the right of the dirty tricks, Flordia, DieBold Machine....try read Greg's Best Democracy Money Can Buy

Now the Scandal Comes From the LeftWing, Have the Neo-Liberals now become the extreme

People are fooled by the left vs right, the blue vs red
but in the end its the small higher elite vs a mass of American citizens...same shit all over the world now

REAVERFAN

Sunday, October 30, 2016 4:27 PM (P)

Sorry. Fox is NOT a legitimate news source. They just aren't.

THGRRI

Sunday, October 30, 2016 6:37 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Sorry. Fox is NOT a legitimate news source. They just aren't.

Right you are, and I don't hold out much hope for them becoming one in the foreseeable future.

____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60719

SIGNYM

Sunday, October 30, 2016 6:55 PM (P)

Instead of disputing the point, reject the source.

That is THUGR'S and KPO's and GSTRING's favorite dodge. Yours too, apparently.

So when the NYT carried GWB's water about WMD, did you stop reading the NYT?
When CNN and MSNBC uncritically licked Hillary's broad behind, did you stop reading or listening to them?
Even SNOPES shows a demonstrable bias: Instead of disputing the data or the statistical method of the paper which demonstrated that voting districts with audit trails favored Bernie, and those without audit rails favored Hillary. Snopes quibbled about whether it was an "official" paper from Stanford or not. Really???

For me, the most important fact about the vote-rigging in 2000 and 2004 was how the Democrats did NOT make an issue of it. There was no public move to disallow certain voting types, or to REQUIRE an independent paper audit. I concluded at the time is because the DNC thought it could be useful for them too.

We should be voting on paper, and hand=counting the ballots under observation. All this non-transparent voting technologies does is ensure that whoever is in charge of the voting machines gets to control the outcome.

"It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes"

Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100

JAYNEZTOWN

Monday, October 31, 2016 12:16 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Sorry. Fox is NOT a legitimate news source. They just aren't.

Right you are, and I don't hold out much hope for them becoming one in the foreseeable future.

____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60719

CNN's Wolf Blitzer

Smartmatic is not owned by Soros....that seems to be part of the 'conspiracy' but is owned by Lord Mark Malloch-Brown. He is connected to Soros through the Open Society Foundation, a kind of open borders group or an organization that gives grants to civil society organizations around the world.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Monday, October 31, 2016 1:22 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Instead of disputing the point, reject the source.

Post of the week. Might be the intro to "How to Avoid Critical Thinking" after getting your booster shot of the Facts Vaccine.

JAYNEZTOWN

Monday, September 18, 2023 3:52 AM (P)

What happens in 2024 if Joe Biden and Donald Trump are both impeached?

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2023/09/13/joe-biden-impeach
ed-how-many-presidents/70840773007/

THG

Tuesday, September 19, 2023 10:29 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI: Sunday, October 30, 2016 8:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:

Sorry. Fox is NOT a legitimate news source. They just aren't.

Right you are, and I don't hold out much hope for them becoming one in the foreseeable future.

____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-65067707]

And 7 years later FOX is sued and loses 800 million dollars for lying. And wait for it. They are about to lose another billion for the same thing.

T

SIGNYM

Tuesday, September 19, 2023 10:41 PM (P)

So, to the question "Will the next election gat hacked"?

Is that even a question?
Since both party establishments do it, the only question is "Which party will be the more successful hacker/manipulator"?

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM

THG

Wednesday, September 20, 2023 1:19 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So, to the question "Will the next election gat hacked"?

Is that even a question?
Since both party establishments do it, the only question is "Which party will be the more successful hacker/manipulator"?

I can't figure out who is a bigger dummy, you or Jack.

T

New lawsuit rocks Fox: See why Murdoch’s are still ‘paying’ for election lies after firing Tucker

JAYNEZTOWN

Tuesday, July 23, 2024 8:38 PM (P)

Transportation Department opens investigation of Delta as travel disruptions enter 5th day following global tech outage — AP

https://x.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1815753721894052000

JAYNEZTOWN

Friday, September 6, 2024 3:28 AM (P)

Yes or No Game Show