PirateNews and Child Porn
POSTED BY: Hero
UPDATED: Thursday, December 7, 2006 16:42
VIEWED: 36513
PAGE 2 of 2
You know, I hate to be PirateNews-ish but I am wondering about the GOP now.
Rush Limbaugh, caught with a bunch of non-prescription Viagra after a trip to (noted child prostitution destination) Dominican Republic. Abramoff and DeLay protecting (noted child prostitution destination) Mariana Islands.
Does the GOP have a thing for child prostitutes, or are they just general bottom-feeders, congregating wherever misery is at its worst?
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
To kind of sum up, I'm happy that Hero actually cited something accurately. This is a step in the right direction, in my opinion. It's a far cry from using Drudge or the latest GOP talking points as a source. So, kudos Hero. Remember, the truth will set you free. I'm sad that the FBI got dragged into all this. They have better ways to spend their time.
In lawschool they teach student to use the IRAC argument (ISSUE, RULE, ANALYSIS, CONCLUSION). The issue in this case was whether or not PirateNews posted child porn. I then stated the rule (law), my analysis of that rule, and the conclusion, which is what I did about it.
I appreciate that many folk in these parts would not have reported the pictures to anyone. Unlike most, if not all of you I have a legal obligation to report instances of suspected child porn to the proper authorities. That's what I did, I'd do it again.
I feel that it is better for law enforcement to overeact in certain situations then others. Child porn and terrorism are among them. In my view it is better to go to far too quickly and then correct the error, then to take too long or not go far enough and be unable to make up the lost ground. Such is my philosophy of law enforcement. I may joke around a bit about prosecuting liberals for speeding violations... but the truth is there is nothing I take more seriously then my job and nothing I enjoy more then sending the bad guy to jail, political affiliations not withstanding.
H
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
"I appreciate that many folk in these parts would not have reported the pictures to anyone."
I would not have reported PN or Firefly. I would have reported the original site. 
It being more relevant to child porn than here.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:The proof is here:
Originally posted by Zero:
The law classifies it as child porn. Pictures of children bound and gagged and in distress meet the legal definition provided by the US Code. Prove me wrong...I dare you.
The definition requires that to be child porn it must be "graphic or lascivious". (Either one will suffice.) I didn't see a deifnition for "lascivious" but "graphic" means "that a viewer can observe any part of the genitals or pubic area".
(B) For purposes of subsection 8(B “sexually explicit conduct” means —
(ii) graphic or lascivious simulated;
(III) sadistic or masochistic abuse
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hero- If I thought I saw "child porn" I would have reported it.
Soup- I'm surprised at you. "Better safe than sorry?" Sorry about what? Does this mean that we can't post disturbing (but non graphic) pix of real-life child abuse because somebody like Hero "might" think it's child porn?
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
You know, I'm also of the 'better safe than sorry' mindset. When the neighbor wife was very loud one evening I wasn't sure if they were horsing around or if there were problems. So I called the cops. (Having the cops ring your doorbell - what a mood killer. 
) Better safe than sorry. But even after it was pointed out to me, nothing about the picture said 'child porn.' I didn't see the sex in it.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
So... I take it your neighbors were being extra-frisky??? heh heh heh
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Yeah ... one might say that ....
I think the cops calling on them inhibited them somewhat 
, I haven't heard anything like that since.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hey Rue,
I missed your posting of the law. That does put a different light on things. Oh well. I can still dream that Hero is making progress .
Hey Hero,
I completely understand that you're operating under different circumstances because you're an officer of the court. And that you have to cast a wider net on what is, or is not, child pornography to be on the safe side. I get that. Just out of curiosity, would you mind speculating about whether you would've done the same things if you weren't a lawyer?
Hey Signym,
I think you conflated mine and Hero's posts. Although I've definitely been going back and forth on this one.
On one hand, I really hate the idea of calling the police (or, in this case, the FBI) about anything. It's just something you didn't do where I grew up. If there was a car accident, sure. But otherwise, no way. So, even though I understand cognitively that it is sometimes necessary to bring in law enforcement, I have this strong gut urge not to.
On the other hand, there are certain areas where I could see taking more of a better safe than sorry approach. Domestic violence. Child abuse. Rape. White supremacists building pipe bombs. People producing child pornography. Stuff like that.
I didn't see the need to bring in the FBI for this case. To me, that wasn't pornography.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
but "graphic" means "that a viewer can observe any part of the genitals or pubic area".
Gee, there's a Federal Judge out in Utah that is this very moment saying that it is well settled law that nudity is not required. Its nice to know that the Judge took the time to visit this site and consider my argument before rendering her judgement...or perhaps she just consulted case law...naw, never happen.
H
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Does this mean that we can't post disturbing (but non graphic) pix of real-life child abuse because somebody like Hero "might" think it's child porn?
I think that if your going to post those pictures, be prepared for someone to think they are child porn. Its like playing with fire or walking on ice...bad things might happen which is why such things are generally avoided.
If you or PN post such pictures, be prepared for the response those pictures should and often do generate. Even pure intentions may not protect you, since intent is not as much of a factor here as in other cases. Its like speeding. Sure, you were just going about your otherwise legitimate business, but if you go too fast and get caught, its not the cop's fault and your intentions don't matter (although, unlike this instance, citations are within officer discretion, reporting suspected child porn is mandatory).
H
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Just out of curiosity, would you mind speculating about whether you would've done the same things if you weren't a lawyer?
I don't know the answer to that. I'd like to say yes, but who knows?
I've also prosecuted several cases recently, a diddler, a weenie wagger (both technical legal terms), a Mom who thought pictures of her kid having sex with grown men was ok, and a 'sex with the hot neighbor' case. So I may be hypersensitive to the topic.
H
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Hero-I would take action if I thought the pix represented real, ongoing, and preventable child abuse whether or not it was pornography. For example, pix that came to me secretively of a child being beaten- possibly real-life, current, and within the reach of USA law- would definitely warrant action. Or if the picture came to me with the line "give me your credit card number to see more". Let me toss some examples at you for you view on whether or not it's "pornography"
I think that if your going to post those pictures, be prepared for someone to think they are child porn. Its like playing with fire or walking on ice...bad things might happen which is why such things are generally avoided.
A naked and burned Vietnamese girl running away from her napalmed village.
A traumatized girl screaming into the arms of her mother just after genital mutilation.
A child dying of starvation, with the vultures waiting in the background.
Children working, shackled, to carpet-weaving looms.
Fully-clothed children waiting for clients in a brothel.
Sometimes LIFE is obscene.
As far as the Utah judge... there may have been other things about the pix that raised red flags, such as simulated but fully-clothed sex. Or perhaps the judge is twitchier than most. As the ads always say: Your results may vary.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Zero,
"nudity not required" The definition is 'graphic or lascivious. Must meet the 'lascivious' requirement.
PS You're spending an awful lot of time looking up one case (from Utah) trying to rationalize yourself.
And I too am curious about your reponse to SignyM's list. They are all photos (some Pulitzer prize-winning) that I've seen in magazines and newspapers.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I do not approve child abuse and exploitation or of people profiting from it after the fact. If I thought that's what was happening here I would have done something about it.
But the heartburn that I have w/ Hero is that if we bow to his implied threat then discussion on a whole range of topics (w/ pix to make a point) grinds to a halt. The topic of child exploitation, exploitation, poverty and injustice IN GENERAL are the bread and butter of our discussions in the RWE forum.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hey HERO, is this someone you know?
Quote:
HAMILTON, Ohio (AP) -- A city prosecutor was charged with indecency after a security camera caught him walking around naked in a government building after business hours.
Scott Blauvelt, 35, was arrested Monday and charged with two counts of indecency. He was released from jail to await a hearing in the court where he usually works.
A guard monitoring a security camera spotted a nude man -- whom investigators identified as Blauvelt -- in a building that houses county offices the night of October 5, sheriff's Maj. Anthony Dwyer said. The night before, security video had captured Blauvelt naked in another area of the building, where city offices are located, Dwyer said.
Dwyer said investigators don't know why Blauvelt, who was alone, wasn't wearing clothes. He faces a month in jail and a $250 fine if convicted.
Blauvelt's lawyer, Michael Gmoser, said in a statement Tuesday that his client was seriously injured in a 2005 car accident, suffers from mental illness and is on medication for seizures.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
why you crazy americans !
shoot the moon ...shoooooot the mooon
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
THIS is obscene!
Quote:
War has wiped out about 655,000 Iraqis or more than 500 people a day since the U.S.-led invasion, a new study reports.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
THIS is obscene!Quote:
War has wiped out about 655,000 Iraqis or more than 500 people a day since the U.S.-led invasion, a new study reports.
do you honestly think the american media are gonna tell their public what a fuck up bush and his daddies gang have made of this iraqi ethinic cleanse gone wrong?
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
shoot the moon ...shoooooot the mooon
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Hey HERO, is this someone you know?
HAMILTON, Ohio (AP) -- A city prosecutor was charged with indecency after a security camera caught him walking around naked in a government building after business hours.
Scott Blauvelt, 35, was arrested Monday and charged with two counts of indecency. He was released from jail to await a hearing in the court where he usually works.
Sorry, not anywhere near Hamilton and not someone I remember from lawschool...although I mught not recognize him sense we tended to wear clothes to class.
Read the article though and laughed...its ok to laugh at people who break the law, I laugh at them everyday.
H
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
As far as the Utah judge... there may have been other things about the pix that raised red flags...
They allow photography in Utah? Who knew?
The important thing is we all know Hero will call the feds. No matter the circumstances, that's valuable information. Now, I don't think that makes him a stoolie, as he does work for the man and that's an meaningful distinction in my mind. And I guess we'll find out if its child porn or not if PirateNews gets pinched...
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Hey HERO, is this someone you know?
HAMILTON, Ohio (AP) -- A city prosecutor was charged with indecency after a security camera caught him walking around naked in a government building after business hours.
Scott Blauvelt, 35, was arrested Monday and charged with two counts of indecency. He was released from jail to await a hearing in the court where he usually works.
Ha! Now we know Hero's name. He ratted to the feds in a futile attempt to save his own skin...
My brother defended a case of a prosecutor attacking a nekked hiker during a "citizen's arrest". It seemed the prosecutor likes to tackle nekked men in public. Defendant defended himself by punching the prosecutor repeatedly in the face. The defendant won that case, and was billed $10,000 in champaigne. Note that the Bush Gang, "Dick" Cheney, Bill Clinton Blythe and 3,000 other world dictators do the same thing, walking around nekked at Bohemian Grove homosexual nudist compound. So an Equal Protection under the Constitution defense would apply.
Quote:
Noreen Gosch
The Johnny Gosch Foundation
www.johnnygosch.com
October 11, 2006
To all the viewers of my website... If this were your child wouldn't you want to know why the police and FBI are not investigating? That is a crime upon a crime.
This is a SECOND PHOTO of Johnny ... bound and gagged received recently. We now know that neither the police nor the FBI ever contacted the website owner of www.Jacobstales.com where the first photo of Johnny appeared.
Thank you for all your help. Everyone who has stepped forward in prayer, thought, and deed. I am deeply grateful.
Click johnnygosch.com to view the NEW photo of Bush White House "Correspondent" Jeff Gannon bound and gagged, just like the rest of the Manchurian Media Mafia.
"How can I get the Captain to shoot a cop in the face, and make it right? That extra moment of sadism - that's the thing that says it's okay, buddy, you're not up to spec, you're going down!"
-Joss the Boss, Firefly DVD, censored Episode 1 "Serenity"
FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php
www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv
www.piratenews.org
Does that seem right to you?
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Does this mean that we can't post disturbing (but non graphic) pix of real-life child abuse because somebody like Hero "might" think it's child porn?
I think that if your going to post those pictures, be prepared for someone to think they are child porn. Its like playing with fire or walking on ice...bad things might happen which is why such things are generally avoided.
If you or PN post such pictures, be prepared for the response those pictures should and often do generate. Even pure intentions may not protect you, since intent is not as much of a factor here as in other cases. Its like speeding. Sure, you were just going about your otherwise legitimate business, but if you go too fast and get caught, its not the cop's fault and your intentions don't matter (although, unlike this instance, citations are within officer discretion, reporting suspected child porn is mandatory).
H
Here's the problem with Hero: he doesn't comprehend THE LAW. He certainly has no concept of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, which his hero Jr Bush claims "is just a GD piece of paper".
The First Amendment allows for redress of grievances against Gangsta Govt. This kidnapping was perped by gangsters in govt, led by the Bush Sr White House (established in 1980). It's never a crime to report a crime, which is why I publish those photos, and why the mother of the victim publishes those photos. Any arrest for "the crime of reporting a crime" is a false arrest, and any such defendant has the legal right to self defense from false arrest, including lawful use of deadly force and justifiable homicide against copsters, and may make citizen's arrests of any criminal (aka "Hero") who files such a frivolous complaint.
In point of fact, "speeding" in never a "crime", since there's no victim, no property damage, no injured party. Nor is it a "breach of the peace", since it's merely normal, safe driving.
Even Uncle Scam admits in official research reports that "speeding" IS SIX TIMES SAFER than driving a "posted speed limit":
Quote:
American Autobahn
by Mark Rask
www.AmericanAutobahn.com
On a 70 mph freeway, the average state trooper of the day did not pull people over until they were over 80, or in some cases, 85 mph. This put the 'speeder' well over that number.
The first major study to be published was 'Accidents on Main Rural Highways Related to Speed, Driver, and Vehicle' by David Soloman in 1964. Analyzing the accident/speed relationship from a substantial body of information collected in eleven states, Soloman's study reveiwed the accident records of almost 10,000 drivers, and included interviews with 290,000 other motorists who used the roads studied in his report. Looking at two- and four-lane, noninterstate highways, the study produced conclusions that:
Accident involvements 'were highest at very low speeds, lowest at about the average speed of all traffic.'
'Drivers of passenger cars having low horsepower had higher involvement rates than drivers of cars having high horsepower.'
"Drivers just above the mean speed had the lowest involvement rate. These findings confirmed the practice of traffic engineers setting speed limits at the 85th-percentile mark."
www.dma.org/%7Eganotedp/85th.htm
VIDEO DOWNLOAD: As seen on History Channel TV at a LEGAL 212mph on a public highway!
http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/americanautobahn-com.wmv
VIDEO DOWNLOAD: How Any Idiot Can Beat A RADAR Speeding Ticket
www.archive.org/details/HowAnyIdiotCanBeatARadarSpeedingTicket
AUDIO MP3 DOWNLOAD: Hidden Taperecording of Copsters Torturing US Citizen to Sign a "Voluntary Consent" Contract Form
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/05/9797.php
Every person has a Constitutionally guaranteed right to travel (when "not for hire"), which includes the standard mode of conveyance (driving a car). People always died on horseback and riding in horse buggies, but there was NEVER a "license" for "horse driv
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Well Hero, I noticed that you slunk past my list of "potential child porn". You know what? You've got to give law enforcement SOME credit for knowing the difference between child porn and news photos. Heck, if they can't arrest John Karr and they're not certain if Foley broke a law, do you think PN's pix will raise any eyebrows? The only question that might be raised is about YOU.
So you can go ahead and blow me in to the FBI if your short hairs get frizzled by one of my posts... it's not like it hasn't happened to me before.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:What I wish Zero had posted was something more accurate, meaningful, and useful.
Originally posted by FellowTraveler:
The important thing is we all know Hero will call the feds. No matter the circumstances, that's valuable information. Now, I don't think that makes him a stoolie, as he does work for the man and that's an meaningful distinction in my mind. And I guess we'll find out if its child porn or not if PirateNews gets pinched...
AFAIK he delibertately edited the relevant portions of the statute and mis-stated the contents. As many times as I've cited the text, he has failed to address it. If we are going to learn anything useful, it would be nice if he could put aside his ego issues (among his many issues) and give us the straight dope about what is and isn't kiddie porn.
As for snitches, you have to presume they are around. I've always thought there was one person (not Zero) who was and possibly still is a government operative.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Huh, I have relatives near Ithaca. Heck, I've driven thru that area! I'd better stay out of THOSE courts!
a 76-year-old Elmira man who contested a speeding ticket in Newfield, outside Ithaca, was jailed without even a warning for three days in 2003 because he called the sheriff’s deputy a liar.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:
a 76-year-old Elmira man who contested a speeding ticket in Newfield, outside Ithaca, was jailed without even a warning for three days in 2003 because he called the sheriff’s deputy a liar.
Huh, I have relatives near Ithaca. Heck, I've driven thru that area! I'd better stay out of THOSE courts!
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
It's that way everywhere, no matter if the judge is a licensed lawyer or not. Even licensed lawyers are arrested and convicted for masturbating in court using peter pumps during trials.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=801019
75&blogID=158137001
I walked away without a 110mph speed ticket last month, when one of the copsters thought they recognized me as a biker buddy. Good thing I left my helmet on, and just played along. Sneaky copsters were driving a BLACK patrol car (not unmarked undercover), to better hide in the dark. But I was videotaping for a DVD project, so I had to go riding that day. Got the whole discussion on hidden videotape, with the cop driving away without sueing me for alleged breach of civil driver license contract. It was weird, since the cops acted scared of me (I get that a lot), and were glad they didn't have to write a ticket or make an arrest, tho perhaps that was just because they always feel so guilty for robbing people at gunpoint.
It's been 20 years since I last talked my way out of a 110mph ticket in USA, but in Germany, it was legal to drive 130mph for hours nonstop in heavy traffic.
Mainly I just hunker in my bunker, now that USA is in a current Civil War, with roving Death Squads performing 500 summary executions every year during service of process for civil traffic ticket lawsuits. Here in Blount County, cops just perform summary executions of "speeding" bikers, without bothering to make any attempt at a traffic stop, even when they murder cops riding their bikes to work at the jail. Blount County, Knox County and Tennessee legislature named Interstate I-140 for a convicted hit-and-run killer of a biker tourist.
www.dealsgapdragon.com
"You can't stop the signal! Nah nah nah nah!"
-Mr Universe, Pirate TV
FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php
www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv
www.piratenews.org
Does that seem right to you?
www.scifi.com/onair/
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
AFAIK he delibertately edited the relevant portions of the statute and mis-stated the contents.
Not sure how it was edited. I 'cut and pasted' portions of the text rather then simply pasting large sections of legal language that were not relevant to the discussion.
If you can show that the actual law says something different then do it. Quote what I wrote and what the law says side by side and show us. For the record, I got my quotes off Finlaw...I'll doublecheck on Casemaker and Westlaw since those are the two services I normally use. If I find that I was wrong, I'll issue a correction...I doubt your capable of doing the same.
H
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
You left out the requirement that says it MUST be graphic or lascivious to be porn. I quoted the entire section here: Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 16:57, and quoted or referenced that specific portion here Tuesday October 10 2006 - 06:40, here Tuesday October 10 2006 - 10:53, here Wednesday October 11 2006 - 06:39, and here Wednesday October 11 2006 - 14:52.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hero is just obfuscating.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
As for snitches, you have to presume they are around. I've always thought there was one person (not Zero) who was and possibly still is a government operative.
Aahh, now I'm intrigued... Well, go on, dish...
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
But the heartburn that I have w/ Hero is that if we bow to his implied threat then discussion on a whole range of topics (w/ pix to make a point) grinds to a halt.
Siggy, that is their *entire* purpose, him and several others (not including their sock puppet horde) - to sidetrack, sandbag and otherwise destroy anything resembling intelligent, reasonable discussion.
Go back and look, you'll find thread after thread they've successfully derailed that way, and far too many for coincidence - they're just an advanced form of troll and should be handled appropriately.
Look how fast this thread totalled any rational discussion of the original topic prior to it ? and when finally cornered, they result in nitpicking to drag the discussion out in hopes that people will get bored and frustrated and ditch it, conveniently disposing of the topic they wanted disposed as well.
And over and over, people here fall for it.
Don't take the bait, right-O ?
-Frem
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
To understand Foley, Hastert, Gingrinch, Bush, Clinton-Blythe, John Ramsey, and homo pedophile pimp Barney Frank:
VIDEO DOWNLOAD: CONSPIRACY OF SILENCE
Censored by Discovery Channel
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4946110250157218995&q=Conspir
acy
CIA GOP MKULTRA kidnapped call boys Gannon/Gosch tour Bush Sr White House - 70 articles in Washington Times
www.thelawparty.org/FranklinCoverup/franklin.htm
"You can't stop the signal! I'll just comeback in the sequel!"
-Mr Universe, Pirate TV
FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php
www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv
www.piratenews.org
Does that seem right to you?
www.scifi.com/onair/
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Alright PirateNews, I watched the video and maybe your not bat-shit crazy...
I would have to agree that there is something real fishy about this whole thing. The problem is the Boner kid is just not credible. He has recanted, then recanted his recant, then recanted that recant, and then recanted that recant, etc, etc, etc... It's a good thing the producers of this video found some people with credentials to speak out, otherwise the story is just not plausible.
It's too late to follow your other links tonight, but I will check out the Washington Times articles (even if it is owned by the Moonies) on that prostitution ring in DC. It is interesting (if true) that only the leaders of the ring and not the johns were investigated and that the johns' names were then sealed. If they were diddling underage boys, why would their crimes be ignored? Perhaps, somebody was being protected.
Maybe there is nothing to it, but maybe there is something. I'm no longer willing to dismiss it out of hand, however, so your making progress. Well, I'm off to make a tinfoil hat...
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Alright PirateNews, I watched the video and maybe your not bat-shit crazy...
Oh PN is a bit out-there, cause in my opinion he takes things to extremes, draws conclusions without sufficient evidence, and his presentation leaves much to be desired, but that doesn't mean he's not working from some pretty solid evidence to begin with.
Boner was scared out of his wits, hunted and hounded by both sides, and shortly after DeCamp's book was published, showed up ranting at a hospital, injured and in shock - whereupon they put him in an observation room and conveniently did not observe him one bit till they found him dead, bleeding profusely from the mouth, the next morning.
If I had to guess (and I do, cause there's no autopsy or other info to be had) I would say someone cut out his tongue.
That someone killed him to shut him up adds substantial credibility to his testimony, in my opinion.
There's a whole lot to it, solid facts, case evidence, testimony and arrests.
One fast way to find information is by googling the names of some of the principals of the matter, but as with any information, cross-check and verify before you accept.
I know quite a bit about this matter too, if you want a less melodramatic information source.
-Frem
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Well, I'm kind of waiting here for BigDamnNobody to make his case about my hypocracy. (taps foot, sighs) I'll give it...oh, about a day... after that I figure BDN just officially lost 10 credibility points out of 100. When he gets to zero I'll just ignore him.
BDN, the floor is yours...
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, I'm kind of waiting here for BigDamnNobody to make his case about my hypocracy. (taps foot, sighs) I'll give it...oh, about a day... after that I figure BDN just officially lost 10 credibility points out of 100. When he gets to zero I'll just ignore him.
BDN, the floor is yours...
Because you asked so nicely. The quotes have been lifted chronologically from this thread and each one is followed by what I think it is.
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So we have someone on-board (Hero) who will defend to the death the right of an adult to "groom" and harass the underaged but who will inform the FBI about posted pix.
Nice.
Hypocritical, but nice.
Straw man.
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I have NEVER trusted Hero. He horn-dogs after war widows, can barely smother the rage against his ex and her boyfriend, and likes to intimidate people. He's the perfectly noxious combination of fear and bullying. But altho Hero has been exposed as a Alliance mole, I don't intend to pay it any mind.
Ad hominem.
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Hero- IMHO altho what PN posted was disturbing in my view it was not "obscene". The only emotions it aroused in me was horror and pity. But what you saw in the picture was what you brought to it: an inability to deal with sexual relations from anything other than a position of intimidation. I haven't forgotten about the time you "joked" (yeah, ha ha) about calling in Homeland Security on your ex's new boyfriend and having him rousted at 2 AM. You give breaks to Marines but throw the book at a mentally retarded kid. You use the law for your personal power. This is just another one of those little games that you like to play.
I'm not fooled by your sanctimonious mouthings. You're a pervert in the making, if you aren't already one.
Ad hominem.
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I don't know what planet you're living on. Hero, as far as I'm concerned you're on some kind of kinky personal power trip, and you abuse your job. I knew someone like you. The DOJ was very interested in him.
Ad hominem.
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
You know, I hate to be PirateNews-ish but I am wondering about the GOP now.
Rush Limbaugh, caught with a bunch of non-prescription Viagra after a trip to (noted child prostitution destination) Dominican Republic. Abramoff and DeLay protecting (noted child prostitution destination) Mariana Islands.
Does the GOP have a thing for child prostitutes, or are they just general bottom-feeders, congregating wherever misery is at its worst?
Topic change.
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Hey HERO, is this someone you know?Quote:
HAMILTON, Ohio (AP) -- A city prosecutor was charged with indecency after a security camera caught him walking around naked in a government building after business hours.
Scott Blauvelt, 35, was arrested Monday and charged with two counts of indecency. He was released from jail to await a hearing in the court where he usually works.
A guard monitoring a security camera spotted a nude man -- whom investigators identified as Blauvelt -- in a building that houses county offices the night of October 5, sheriff's Maj. Anthony Dwyer said. The night before, security video had captured Blauvelt naked in another area of the building, where city offices are located, Dwyer said.
Dwyer said investigators don't know why Blauvelt, who was alone, wasn't wearing clothes. He faces a month in jail and a $250 fine if convicted.
Blauvelt's lawyer, Michael Gmoser, said in a statement Tuesday that his client was seriously injured in a 2005 car accident, suffers from mental illness and is on medication for seizures.
Really weird topic change.
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
THIS is obscene!Quote:
War has wiped out about 655,000 Iraqis or more than 500 people a day since the U.S.-led invasion, a new study reports.
Mild topic cha
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Ahhh ... end of the day, end of the week ... You know, I actually went through your long list point by point, and then I realized that you had taken every single post out of context. It was especially egregious when those posts were a DIRECT response to a previous post.
Quote:was a direct and relevant response to Zero's posts on another thread.
So we have someone on-board (Hero) who will defend to the death the right of an adult to "groom" ......
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=24469
Quote:was in DIRECT response to the posting immediately above
I have NEVER trusted Hero. ...
MISBEHAVEN
I don't trust Hero now, and I never will after this.
Quote:Was in DIRECT reply to the ad hominem attack Zero posted immediately above
Hero- IMHO altho what PN posted was disturbing in my view it was not "obscene". ...
ZERO
So for you child porn is ok. But our political differences are the real evil. Thats why you liberals are so dangerous.
Quote:Was responding to changes in topic introduced here => Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 12:47, here => Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 14:04, here => Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 14:10, here => Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 14:11, here => Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 14:16, here => Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 11:19, here => Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 11:31, here => Monday, October 09, 2006 - 09:27, ...
You know, I hate to be PirateNews-ish but ...
Oh crap. I'm not even halfway through the thread. This is taking too long.
Meanwhile, I brought up the statute with the definition of child porn FIVE times, looking for clarity. You see, the photo does not appear to meet the standard. But Zero slunk away from a substantive discussion.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
FELLOWTRAVELER
Alright PirateNews, I watched the video and maybe your not bat-shit crazy...
I never waste my time discussing topics without researching them first. Life's too short.
Google "The Franklin Coverup", by GOP CIA Senator John deCamp who won 2 million-dollar lawsuits for himself and Paul Bonnaci, and helped arrest and convict GOP "National Anthem" singer and pedophile pimp Larry King for $40-million bank robbery. Better yet, buy the book from amazon.com. Then READ it, STUDY it, LEARN from it, as if your family's lives depended on it.
DeCamp is now lecturing that when Bush sr raped these little boys, "they were never seen again", implying Bush sr murdered them, or had them murdered, to shut them up.
Just like Bush Jr did this week to a 9/11 Truth webmaster on South Park on prime-time TV:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8339201394200451031&hl=en
http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/southpark911short.wmv
"South Park Republicans..." HA!
Then watch Cathy O'Brien's lectures on being raped and tortured by Bush Sr, Cheney and Hillary Clinton, and hunted at gunpoint by Cheney and Bush in The Most Dangerous Game:
www.piratenews.org/video-archive.html
O'Brien and her lobotomized daughter Kelly, tortured by CIA MKULTRA, are Joss' composite characters for River Tam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKULTRA
If Joss is allowed to continue the Serenity story, I'm sure he'll delve more deeply into MKULTRA's bag of mind-kontrol tricks.
"You can't stop the signal!"
-Mr Universe, Pirate TV
FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php
www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv
www.piratenews.org
Does that seem right to you?
www.scifi.com/onair/
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hey Rue,
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Ahhh ... end of the day, end of the week ... You know, I actually went through your long list point by point, and then I realized that you had taken every single post out of context.
I was unaware that context had anything to do with questionable debate tactics. Any attack on your opponents character is ad hominem. Any misrepresentation of your opponents argument is straw man.
Quote:
It was especially egregious when those posts were a DIRECT response to a previous post.Quote:was a direct and relevant response to Zero's posts on another thread.
So we have someone on-board (Hero) who will defend to the death the right of an adult to "groom" ......
So perhaps the response should have been made in the relevant thread.
That doesn't change the fact that it was still a straw man argument. Hero may have been defending the action's of the GOP regarding the Foley scandal but he never defended the right of an adult to commit indecent acts with a minor.
Quote:Quote:was in DIRECT response to the posting immediately above
I have NEVER trusted Hero. ...
MISBEHAVEN
I don't trust Hero now, and I never will after this.Quote:Was in DIRECT reply to the ad hominem attack Zero posted immediately above
Hero- IMHO altho what PN posted was disturbing in my view it was not "obscene". ...
ZERO
So for you child porn is ok. But our political differences are the real evil. Thats why you liberals are so dangerous.
So ad hominem attacks are okay as long as you invoke the ultimate defense of... He started it? What's wrong with taking the higher road?
Quote:Quote:Was responding to changes in topic introduced here => Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 12:47, here => Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 14:04, here => Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 14:10, here => Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 14:11, here => Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 14:16, here => Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 11:19, here => Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 11:31, here => Monday, October 09, 2006 - 09:27, ...
You know, I hate to be PirateNews-ish but ...
Hey, topic changes are fine in my book, it seems like every thread goes through multiple. That's why I would never post my dislike of topic changes in another thread. Is it not reasonable to expect a Poster to live up to their own lofty ideals. Especially after lamenting the lack of those same ideals in other Posters.
Quote:
Oh crap. I'm not even halfway through the thread. This is taking too long.
That was a nice attempt Rue, and I'm sure SignyM is very appreciative of your efforts.
Posting to stir stuff up.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
BDN- My dsl has been acting like dialup and this is a LOOOONG thread. Got time for only one point, I'll get to the rest later:
My comments on Hero's character. Not ad hominem, in fact it is directly related to the discussion at hand. WHY would Hero contact (or threaten to contact) the FBI over a picture that was clearly not child porn? My comments speak to motive, Your Honor... always an important part of a crime.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:A warning to conspiracy theorists everywhere: just because someone is evil and acts out of evil intent, doesn't mean that their actions are coordinated or make sense even to themselves. Evil is nothing if not opportunistic.
Originally posted by SignyM:
WHY would Hero contact (or threaten to contact) the FBI over a picture that was clearly not child porn?
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
BDN: Point by point-
You claimed this was straw man:
Quote:Just to pick up a few examples of Hero's vigorous (and underhanded) defense of Foley, hereare two outright lies that he tossed in
So we have someone on-board (Hero) who will defend to the death the right of an adult to "groom" and harass the underaged but who will inform the FBI about posted pix.
Quote:
(1) And lets not forget a certain Democratic congressman who was given a standing ovation on the House floor by Pelosi and her Democrats after being censured for having sex with a 17 year-old page.
(2) Now the FBI is saying that the e-mails and IMs provided by the liberal interest group were edited for content.
YOu said these were ad hominem:
Quote:As I said, it speaks to motive.
I have NEVER trusted Hero. He horn-dogs after war widows, can barely smother the rage against his ex and her boyfriend, and likes to intimidate people. He's the perfectly noxious combination of fear and bullying. But altho Hero has been exposed as a Alliance mole, I don't intend to pay it any mind.
Hero- IMHO altho what PN posted was disturbing in my view it was not "obscene". The only emotions it aroused in me was horror and pity. But what you saw in the picture was what you brought to it: an inability to deal with sexual relations from anything other than a position of intimidation. I haven't forgotten about the time you "joked" (yeah, ha ha) about calling in Homeland Security on your ex's new boyfriend and having him rousted at 2 AM. You give breaks to Marines but throw the book at a mentally retarded kid. You use the law for your personal power. This is just another one of those little games that you like to play.
I don't know what planet you're living on. Hero, as far as I'm concerned you're on some kind of kinky personal power trip, and you abuse your job. I knew someone like you. The DOJ was very interested in him.
As far as the topic changes are concerned... If you re-read what I posted, I don't have a problem with topic changes per se, just with topic changes that people toss in to avoid conceding a point. You know, you get to the point of a conundrum and the next response is "Mmmm boy howdy! Lookit that weather!" If anyone was conceding anything it was Hero. In Turns out there may be another side after all www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=24469 Hero stopped responding after he was called in his big fat obvious lies. In THIS thread you may have noticed that Hero simply refused to respond to the examples I provided of "child porn or not?" as well as to Rue's extensive - and more honest- quote of the law.
The crickets were chirping, the trees were sighing in the breeze, the stars were sparkling in the night sky... I was filling in the empty spots where Hero's replies should have been. I would have been extremely happy if Hero had actually addressed either point, but he kind of slunk away.
The only hand-grenade that I tossed in was about the GOP, which was uncalled for.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hey asswipe (It's a good name, and it fits more than one person here)
Ironically, Zero STARTED with this ad hominem attack with these first words of the entire thread:
"In a recent thread PirateNews, well known for his crazy talk, driving while intoxicated, and tinfoil hats.."
As to what is the point of discussion, when two posters are discussing another poster (as in discussion ABOUT Zero between posters) any opinion is relevant to THAT discussion, and not an ad hominem attack.
IF they were attacking Zero as part of their discussion of HIS topic, then it would be.
You may not have noticed. but there were several legitimate discussions going on in this thread. Your attempt to somehow limit the discussion to YOUR preferred topics and invalidate any other freely entered discussion is revolting. And arrogant. And trollish. And says a whole lot about who you are.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Ironically, Zero STARTED with this ad hominem attack with these first words of the entire thread:
"In a recent thread PirateNews, well known for his crazy talk, driving while intoxicated, and tinfoil hats.."
Why you keep bringing up Hero in this discussion is beyond me. Several posters on occasion engage in questionable debate tactics in this forum. OTOH, those same posters are not posting in another thread about their distaste for such practices. Kind of like the difference between a Reaver and an Operative. One consistantly attacks head-on (you know what your going to get) while the other sidles up sideways with a smile. Either way you still end up dead.
Quote:
As to what is the point of discussion, when two posters are discussing another poster (as in discussion ABOUT Zero between posters) any opinion is relevant to THAT discussion, and not an ad hominem attack.
IF they were attacking Zero as part of their discussion of HIS topic, then it would be.
So in your opinion it was not an ad hominem attack, it was flame baiting. SignyM made no such mention about distaste of flame baiting in her original post so in this case no hypocricy exists and I must apologize.
Quote:
You may not have noticed. but there were several legitimate discussions going on in this thread. Your attempt to somehow limit the discussion to YOUR preferred topics and invalidate any other freely entered discussion is revolting. And arrogant. And trollish. And says a whole lot about who you are.
Now it is YOU employing the straw man. It was SignyM and to a lesser extent YOU who wanted to limit the discussion in this thread to the present topic. I called SignyM on something and was more than willing to back up my claim of hypocricy when invited.
Posting to stir stuff up.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Ironically, Zero STARTED with this ad hominem attack with these first words of the entire thread:
"In a recent thread PirateNews, well known for his crazy talk, driving while intoxicated, and tinfoil hats.."
Yeah, I said it. Oh yes I did (shakes finger at screen).
Do you all remember the 'PirateNews must go' thread or the long discussion he and I had about whether or not DUI laws conflict with the 'Gangsta Govment's' Constitution? And read PN's posts and tell me the descriptive term 'crazy talk' doesn't apply...its a legal term, I used it in court to describe similar rantings by a self-styled Freeman objecting to the State's oppressive requirement that people have licenses to drive.
I admit the tinfoil hat comment was unsupported by precedent or evidence. I apologize. Although I doubt he can hear my apology through the tinfoil pj's he wears to bed or the plastic wrap and duct tape he covers his computer with to block our tracking signals.
H
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:And I was more than happy to reply. However, you're ignoring both my original post AND my reply. What I originally said was
You may not have noticed. but there were several legitimate discussions going on in this thread. Your attempt to somehow limit the discussion to YOUR preferred topics and invalidate any other freely entered discussion is revolting. And arrogant. And trollish. And says a whole lot about who you are.- Rue
Now it is YOU employing the straw man. It was SignyM and to a lesser extent YOU who wanted to limit the discussion in this thread to the present topic. I called SignyM on something and was more than willing to back up my claim of hypocricy when invited.-BDN
Quote:. These threads follow a line of conversation like an ox pissing ... in other words, pretty much all over the map. Many topic changes are plain shift in interest. But many topic changes are introduced simply to avoid issues, conclusions, or concessions.
I DO, however, care HOW they debate. Misrepresenting what someone else has said, straw-man arguments, ad hominem... and the thing that drive me craziest: changing the topic to avoid conceding a point
I'm more than happy to pursue "what is child porn, did the posted picture meet that definition, should law enforcement be notified?" with Hero.. that WAS the point of his post... but he's not willing to discuss this with me. He'd MUCH rather talk about PN!
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
You may not have noticed. but there were several legitimate discussions going on in this thread. Your attempt to somehow limit the discussion to YOUR preferred topics and invalidate any other freely entered discussion is revolting. And arrogant. And trollish. And says a whole lot about who you are.
Golly gee whiz, what took ya so long ?
Again, you all are playing their game, going back and forth, tit for tat, letting them drag down and dismantle anything that looks like reasonable discussion instead of typical rightwing radio show shouted blather, intended on overcoming facts and logic with volume.
They ARE Trolls, and it's time to admit this fact instead of trying to reason with them and thus allowing them to bait you into this crap - they don't debate, they don't discuss, they PRETEND to do these things while working towards the destruction of the topic because they do not like the realities behind it.
As these 3-4 trolls and their myriad of sockpuppets have been allowed free run, less and less people come here and/or participate in the discussions, and thread after thread after thread winds up, well.... just like this.
And that pisses me off, it means they're winning, and have damned near totally crushed anything even remotely resembling reasonable discussion around here - your average thread here sees maybe, MAYBE 12 of us post to it, and often it's more like five or six because these goons and their tactics have done run off everybody else.
Fucking ignore them, don't play their game, and in extremis, if needs be, we'll have a little chat with Haken about it - or play their game, and watch this forum shrink until there's nothing left but you.... and them.
-Frem
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Frem -that's why I tend to hound posters with the same question over and over until I get a real answer.... or until they bail out of the thread. I think it's incumbent on folks who want to discuss issues to be aware that the best way to deal with trollishness is not to engage in the same behavior. Stick with clean rhetoric. Respond to the other person's point, and keep ON topic.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I don't believe ignoring lies is wholesome, but this seems like something good to do.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by FellowTraveler:
Alright PirateNews, I watched the video and maybe your not bat-shit crazy...
I would have to agree that there is something real fishy about this whole thing. The problem is the Boner kid is just not credible. He has recanted, then recanted his recant, then recanted that recant, and then recanted that recant, etc, etc, etc... It's a good thing the producers of this video found some people with credentials to speak out, otherwise the story is just not plausible.
It's too late to follow your other links tonight, but I will check out the Washington Times articles (even if it is owned by the Moonies) on that prostitution ring in DC. It is interesting (if true) that only the leaders of the ring and not the johns were investigated and that the johns' names were then sealed. If they were diddling underage boys, why would their crimes be ignored? Perhaps, somebody was being protected.
Maybe there is nothing to it, but maybe there is something. I'm no longer willing to dismiss it out of hand, however, so your making progress. Well, I'm off to make a tinfoil hat...
Everyone involved in the case knows that Troy Boner alone isn't a crediable witness, which btw he is dead now under mysterious circumstances, you have to look at everything thats happened to him to understand why he recanted his orginal testimony and he isn't the only one whoes recanted, being threatened with your life and harassed by the very people like the FBI who should be protecting him, would make a person recant, espeically someone whoes already been a victim of the system.
your the second person whoes used the word diddled!!, I take offense to that!!! being sexually molested, raped, or prostituted out is not being diddled with!!
diddled!! sounds almost benevolent,what happened to these kids isn't benevolent
Fishy NO it isn't fishy its FOUL!!!and another thing, you'll notice that Paul Bonacci, whom you saw also on the conspiracy of silence film, the same kid who was at the white house parties, the same kid who was raped and abused by politians wealthy businesmen etc, the same kid who worked for Republican Larry King, the same kid who was used by Micheal Aquino -testified that he was involved in the kidnapping of Johnny Gosch, was actually there and particpated in this, he was also featured on America's most wanted in the Johnny Gosch case, so Yeah I'm pretty sure that Jeff Gannon is Johnny Gosch.
but I bet you probably think its just a coincidence!! right!! or just a little fishy!!
its pretty hard to ignore the evidence unless you just simply want to.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
Everyone involved in the case knows that Troy Boner alone isn't a crediable witness, which btw he is dead now under mysterious circumstances, you have to look at everything thats happened to him to understand why he recanted his orginal testimony and he isn't the only one whoes recanted, being threatened with your life and harassed by the very people like the FBI who should be protecting him, would make a person recant, espeically someone whoes already been a victim of the system.
your the second person whoes used the word diddled!!, I take offense to that!!! being sexually molested, raped, or prostituted out is not being diddled with!!
diddled!! sounds almost benevolent,what happened to these kids isn't benevolent
Fishy NO it isn't fishy its FOUL!!!and another thing, you'll notice that Paul Bonacci, whom you saw also on the conspiracy of silence film, the same kid who was at the white house parties, the same kid who was raped and abused by politians wealthy businesmen etc, the same kid who worked for Republican Larry King, the same kid who was used by Micheal Aquino -testified that he was involved in the kidnapping of Johnny Gosch, was actually there and particpated in this, he was also featured on America's most wanted in the Johnny Gosch case, so Yeah I'm pretty sure that Jeff Gannon is Johnny Gosch.
but I bet you probably think its just a coincidence!! right!! or just a little fishy!!
its pretty hard to ignore the evidence unless you just simply want to.
PirateJenny, I'm guessing you have never worked in sales.
There's an old saying, something about flies and honey... When trying to convince someone of anything, often the best method does not involve insulting them.
Frem was right, you guys need to work on your presentation. Don't feel bad, though. It can sometimes take a good salesman years to find their swing.
Anywho, thanks for the bump. I had forgotten about this and wanted to check out those Washington Times articles.
Keep swinging for those fences...
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Well, I'm also still here if you have any questions, as well.
They mean well, especially Jenny - but yes, tend to present the issue badly.
Even in a more rational manner, presenting all the evidence right up front just causes information overload and kicks in the automatic denial reflex, resulting in the info getting categorized as garbage and dismissed without a second glance.
With an issue as 'out-there' as this, I've found that the best way to present it to folk is to simply show them where to look and allow them to draw their own conclusions - the evidence is there, and some of this crap is just so outright, downright, woo-woo-weird (yet, with courtroom-quality evidence!) that it's just plain difficult to wrap your mind around it sometimes, and everyone does that in their own way, either by complete denial, or flat ignoring it, as with must people... or feelings of complete powerlessness to affect the situation.
This particular issue is indeed psychologically and profoundly disturbing to most people, also, and thus for some of the more emotionally fragile I just flat tell them the truth - "No, you *don't* want to know." and leave it at that.
So I'll give folks enough info to go lookin if they care, and only that, to do otherwise would compromise the validity of the information as presented by someone else, versus what you looked up and checked yourself.
One final note - what rooks me bad about the whole mess is why this matter is treated as a past tense, closed issue.
They shot down ONE, count em, ONE, feeder system, that is all, and with a bare minimum of success in doing only that - this particular problem has grown and continues.
Case in point ?
Jack Abramoff is the creep took over Franklins action when he went down, and the media is oh-so-carefully avoiding the fact that some of those 'prostitutes' he was providing were not old enough to possess a drivers license.
The game never changes, only the players do.
-Frem
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Even in a more rational manner, presenting all the evidence right up front just causes information overload and kicks in the automatic denial reflex, resulting in the info getting categorized as garbage and dismissed without a second glance.
That is where I was when I first read the posts about this. It's all just so far out and I had never heard any of it before. As I have claimed before, I think I am a reasonably well informed person and truely believed that a scandal such as this would have made (and would have continued to make) national headlines. The documentary, though it's a rough cut, convinced me that there might be more than baseless allegations to this.
Quote:
One final note - what rooks me bad about the whole mess is why this matter is treated as a past tense, closed issue.
They shot down ONE, count em, ONE, feeder system, that is all, and with a bare minimum of success in doing only that - this particular problem has grown and continues.
So, there is evidence that this is continuing? Please share.
Quote:
Case in point ?
Jack Abramoff is the creep took over Franklins action when he went down, and the media is oh-so-carefully avoiding the fact that some of those 'prostitutes' he was providing were not old enough to possess a drivers license.
Did Abramoff take over the credit union or are you alleging that he took over the "call boys" prostitution ring?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Okay, I have read some of the Washington Times' articles and it looks like the story has legs. Who woulda' thought Elizabeth Dole would be connected...
For example, the Secret Service injecting itself into the investigation and seizing information related to client's identities is very suspicious. Does the Secret Service normally work vice?
And who the Hell (besides Jerry Springer) pays for a prostitute with a credit card. Nice to know that the people who run the country are that f
g dumb. Note to all you potential johns out there: use cash. It's somewhat harder to trace.
What I do fail to see it the connection between the "call boys" and the Franklin mess, other than some of the pitchers being the same people and the catchers being underage. The story doesn't allege forced prostitution, right?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
double post
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by FellowTraveler:Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
Everyone involved in the case knows that Troy Boner alone isn't a crediable witness, which btw he is dead now under mysterious circumstances, you have to look at everything thats happened to him to understand why he recanted his orginal testimony and he isn't the only one whoes recanted, being threatened with your life and harassed by the very people like the FBI who should be protecting him, would make a person recant, espeically someone whoes already been a victim of the system.
your the second person whoes used the word diddled!!, I take offense to that!!! being sexually molested, raped, or prostituted out is not being diddled with!!
diddled!! sounds almost benevolent,what happened to these kids isn't benevolent
Fishy NO it isn't fishy its FOUL!!!and another thing, you'll notice that Paul Bonacci, whom you saw also on the conspiracy of silence film, the same kid who was at the white house parties, the same kid who was raped and abused by politians wealthy businesmen etc, the same kid who worked for Republican Larry King, the same kid who was used by Micheal Aquino -testified that he was involved in the kidnapping of Johnny Gosch, was actually there and particpated in this, he was also featured on America's most wanted in the Johnny Gosch case, so Yeah I'm pretty sure that Jeff Gannon is Johnny Gosch.
but I bet you probably think its just a coincidence!! right!! or just a little fishy!!
its pretty hard to ignore the evidence unless you just simply want to.
PirateJenny, I'm guessing you have never worked in sales.
There's an old saying, something about flies and honey... When trying to convince someone of anything, often the best method does not involve insulting them.
Frem was right, you guys need to work on your presentation. Don't feel bad, though. It can sometimes take a good salesman years to find their swing.
Anywho, thanks for the bump. I had forgotten about this and wanted to check out those Washington Times articles.
Keep swinging for those fences...
you thought I was trying to convince you, Nope, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, and as far as I know I wasn't insulting you either, I'm pissed, NO I am beyond pissed I'm Fracking mad as hell and I think everyone else should be too, if they aren't then something is wrong with them not me!! so you'll have to forgive me or not if I come off somewhat abrasive, I don't have the patience or energy to try and appease or convince someone about whats going on, and I will not mince my words or play it down, just because some people choose to ignore the info. I can't detach emotionally and I won't try, Nor do I want to. It's not who I am and anyone who knows my post on this forum knows that about me. And I happen to like that about my post.
I understand why people don't want to take this seriously, and I completely understand why they don't want to know, but its percisely for those very reasons why this stuff continues to happen.
I could never be a salesman, certainly not a good one. I'm to honest which can be more of a liablity then an asset!!
I was looking into a totally diffrent topic when I happened onto this info, and the more info and research I did the more I found and the more I contiuned to find it more and more keeps surfacing, I said it before and I'll say it again the truth has strange ways of getting out.
but its good that at least you are looking into it!! Good Luck with your research and happy hunting
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
The documentary, though it's a rough cut, convinced me that there might be more than baseless allegations to this.
There is, and both sides have not told the entire truth, I think - also consider that part of the weirdness factor is that freaks deliberately add these elements so that any testimony by the victims sounds outlandish and is more likely to be dismissed, for example freaks who use satanic trappings, for no other purpose other than to distort the reality of what occurred and have the testimony dismissed as BS, not because they are in fact satanists.
Quote:
So, there is evidence that this is continuing? Please share.
The practice continues, and they have to be getting these kids from somewhere, some catholic charities have been implicated, and several witnesses have brought forth the fact that a lot of kids fed into this mess came via being 'dissappeared' into the social services system - for myself I would like to see an accounting of kids who go into the system versus those they can locate at the moment, that would be insightful.
Quote:
Did Abramoff take over the credit union or are you alleging that he took over the "call boys" prostitution ring?
Jack took over the prostitution/blackmail end, and the old ring had served its purpose and attracted too much attention, so likely he just started a new one with one of the other feeder systems, it's not like the kids are hard to replace or eliminate, when it comes right down to it.
Not sure whether that was by design or due to a vacuum of power, but that is how it ended up, and I am watching to see who fills *his* place when he goes down.
Quote:
For example, the Secret Service injecting itself into the investigation and seizing information related to client's identities is very suspicious. Does the Secret Service normally work vice?
Nope, just presidential security, conterfeiting and certain computer crime.
They've seized and disappeared a lot of the evidence, but proving that is very difficult, for example - WHO seized Troy Boners' autopsy records ?
Just some guys with credentials, sure, but there's no record to work with, because no one asked any questions once the badges came out.
Quote:
What I do fail to see it the connection between the "call boys" and the Franklin mess, other than some of the pitchers being the same people and the catchers being underage. The story doesn't allege forced prostitution, right?
Actually it does, you have to read the statements and official testimony, if you can get your hands on it still, it's been a while since I skimmed over it, but i am sure it's public record and therefore obtainable.
This is one of those things where you have to do your own homework in order to have any real grasp of the situation, and make certain logical connections, like, where does the money come from-go to, and why, and how does it get there ?
It's an ugly business all around, in a culture of almost total corruption of humanity, in part due to the nearly limitless power of congressional offices and government posts.
As for what to do about it, these folks are your best bet, an actual Political Action Committee with but one goal, and it took a decade and more to get it off the ground, but here we are.
http://www.protect.org
-Frem
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hero,
So, I couldn't sleep last night and I started watching an old DeNiro movie on cable. The movie was "The Mission" and it was actually really good. It won Cannes back in '86 or '87 and was nominated for Best Picture here in the states.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091530/
Anywho, in this flick there are little, naked, native children running around constantly. I am talking about all ages (toddlers to teens) and full frontal. Genitals were clearly visible on both sexes on numerous occasions.
Now, in part 5 of your definition of child porn you state that "lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person" is illegal.
Lascivious is tricky, but is defined as:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=lascivious
Quote:
2. arousing sexual desire
While watching wild little indians running around nude doesn't turn my crank, it would certainly do so for a pedophile, right?
If it's all black and white and context is of no significance, why are the executives at Starz not doing hard time for showing this film? Why am I not doing hard time for watching it? Why were the producers or the director or even the stars of this movie not prosecuted?
It would seem to a layman (or at least this layman) that the application of this law is in no way objective and depends entirely on the personal tastes of those in positions of power (you).
Anywho, can you please explain (and perhaps justify) the discrepancies in the application of these laws? Thanks.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
The practice continues, and they have to be getting these kids from somewhere, some catholic charities have been implicated, and several witnesses have brought forth the fact that a lot of kids fed into this mess came via being 'dissappeared' into the social services system - for myself I would like to see an accounting of kids who go into the system versus those they can locate at the moment, that would be insightful
The catholic church,plays a big part in the pedohile ring.This thing is huge its mind numbingly and mind boggling just how huge it is.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Jen, they even have their own "Recycling Bin" to train priests who've gotten caught, how NOT to get caught, and then sneak them back into unsuspecting parishes....
Don't believe me ?
Look up: Church of the Servants of the Paraclete
That puts a whole new aspect to the church leaderships claims of ignorance, doesn't it ?
-Frem
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
The catholic Church has a history of pedophila and corruption since its inception. The abuse is really nothing new its been going on since the Catholic church was started. It has a history and culture of corruption and abuse and torture, its one the richest and powerful instutitions in exsistence, it's also one of the biggest unsecret secret socities on this planet.
So it shouldnt come as a surprise to many that they are covering up and recycling pedophile and abusive priest back into the system, this is something they've always done, just because some light is being focused on the problem NOW doesn't mean its new.
The Catholic Church is a Cess Pool, it fosters, and supports and encourages corruption because its a corrupt institution. Its policies, it's Culture, it's history, it's secrecy is all working to that end. And why shouldn't it, when the people at the very top running it are Pedohile's themselves and always have been, birds of the same feather flock together.
The Catholic Church is diseased from the inside out, and even those that go into it for good reasons will probably come out infected by the very nature of its culture of corruption.
I've got nothing against gay people in general and I don't classify them as pedophiles, what two consenting adults do with eachother is none of my business.
But since the Roman Catholic church was started homosexulity has always been apart of it's culture, then you take into account that insane inhuman vow of celibacy and trying to live up to some unnatural and unhealthy standard. They are already being set up to fail by taking that vow. These people are already trying to deny the most primal and basic drives of what being a human being is all about, which is practically impossible to deny those feelings. Most of these people based on their faith already believe that sex is bad or sinful and a weakness, and that homo sexual sex is even worse, factor in their guilt, urges, and feelings of inadequacy and then put these same people in a position of power and they are going to abuse it in the worse ways such victimizing children who are the easiest targets of sexual abuse.
I thought it was interesting to note how in one of the articles it states that the catholic church doesn't look at the problem as a moral issue, but an issue of celibacy.
You have to figure good intentions or Not, anyone who becomes a priest has already got some serious issues to begin with. The culture, and nature of the Church attracts the kind of people with the worst qualties and issues that is needed for that kind of position) the people who are attracted to professions like priesthood are attracked because they have serious issues.
For that reason alone and because of the culture of the Catholic church, it should not be a surprise either that most of the abuse is homopedophilic in nature and always has been.
I got a little off topic, but the Catholic Church is really one of those subjects that always gets to me, I'm just trying to give some insight into why the corruption is so intrenched in the Catholic Church, it's really part of the very fabric of the institution, this is not just a problem its a culture and thats what people have to understand. There is something inherently worng with the Catholic Church!!
The government and the catholic church are all apart of Pedphile network, and yes the Catholic church is one of the biggest feeders/ suppliers of children into it.
http://www.theharrowing.com/nmmystery.html
http://www.theharrowing.com/stats.html
http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/disneyslut.htm
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
CONGRATS EVERYBODY, INCLUDING HERO.
Pedophile website www.jacobstales.com in now DOA, thanks to public pressure on websites, forums, blogs, radio and TV.
Did baiting Hero into contacting FBI actually have an impact? Or did the White House perps just pull this site to protect themselves from arrest for kidnapping Gannon/Gosch? Are arrests pending?
"You can't stop the signal! Do you know what you have there?"
-Mr Universe, Pirate TV
FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php
www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv
www.piratenews.org
Does that seem right to you?
www.scifi.com/onair/
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
FT, if you get your opinions from the WT you are a foolish old man......Well, it's true...
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
FT, if you get your opinions from the WT you are a foolish old man......Well, it's true...
That's why CIA's Korean narco kingpin Reverend Moon now owns Washington Times.
Let's get the opinion of a US Congressman from the Gay Old Pervert Party:
Quote:
"If I were one of these sickos I would be nervous with America's Most Wanted on my back."
-Congressman Mark Foley (R-FL), co-chair of the Committee on Missing and Exploited Children, America's Most Wanted, who resigned from Congress after getting caught performing pedophile cybersex DURING voting in Congress (diversion to contain the new Johnny Gosch Gannon photos???)
How about the opinion of the GOP Speaker of the House:
Quote:
"There is also much focus on the relationship between House Speaker Dennis Hastert and his chief of staff, 56-year old Scott Palmer. Hastert and Palmer, Hastert's longtime unmarried adviser, live together in a DC townhouse along with Hastert's Deputy Chief of Staff, Mike Stokke, while Hastert's wife Jean lives in Yorkville, Illinois and stays at a hotel when she visits Washington. WMR's State Department sources have also reported that the visits of Hastert and other congressional leaders and staff members to certain Southeast Asian nations and the Northern Marianas should come under the scrutiny of the House Ethics Committee, now officially investigating "Pagegate." The Northern Marianas became infamous in the scandals involving Tom DeLay and Jack Abramoff because of the presence in the US slave labor territory of Asian children being used as prostitutes. Conveniently, Foley co-chaired the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children, which would have had authority to investigate charges of child prostitution in the Northern Marianas. Our State Department sources report that it is no secret that a number of U.S. Foreign Service officers working out of the U.S. embassies in Bangkok, Phnom Penh, Hanoi, and Manila have been involved with underage nationals of the host countries where they are assigned. In fact, many have rotated their assignments between countries that look sideways at child prostitution and sex between adults and minors. In fact, John Mark Karr, as previously reported by WMR, was quickly whisked out of Bangkok after his arrest on pedophilia charges. The U.S. Embassy in Bangkok, working with the CIA and Department of Homeland Security, arranged for Karr's quick departure from Bangkok on a business class flight to the United States, where all charges, including those stemming from Karr's 'admission' that he killed JonBenet Ramsey and child porn charges, were later dropped. WMR has learned that Karr may have been aware of the identities of top U.S. officials in the child sex trade in Thailand and that he was sprung from Thai authorities to prevent him from testifying in a Thai courtroom. Hastert visited Vietnam, along with Palmer, in April of this year and spent three days in the country. Hastert, along with Illinois GOP Rep. Ray LaHood, canceled a visit to Thailand and Vietnam in January 2006. Hastert was also in Thailand in January 2002."
-Wayne Madsen (National Security Agency), Wayne Madsen Report, October 9, 2006
http://www.waynemadsenreport.com
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=801019
75&blogID=160906152
How about the opinion of a woman whose son was kidnapped and raped by Sir George Bush Sr Knight of the British Empire:
Quote:
December 2, 2006
There are fetish groups, on yahoo and MSN, who appear to be obsessed with tying up young boys. Perhaps some of the members of these groups are having second thoughts about what the people behind the scenes do or are capable of serial and obsessive photographing of boys tied up. These men, who are driven by their unhealthy desires and fantasies trawl web sites such as Web shots and steal any photo they can find of kids in tied up fun situations (they do happen.) The parent innocently shares there photo only to have the p
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME