Connor was the worst character ever!

POSTED BY: dax82
UPDATED: Monday, July 2, 2007 17:10
VIEWED: 21912
PAGE 1 of 1

DAX82

Tuesday, November 7, 2006 2:36 PM

I think the show went downhill as soon as they introduced pain in the ass Connor. As soon as he was out of the picture the show was great again, except for losing Cordelia.

REGINAROADIE

Tuesday, November 7, 2006 2:41 PM

Hear hear.

Whenever I hear about Anakin Skywalker being nothing but a whiny bitch in the two SW prequels, I always being up Connor. Because there has never been a more whinier teenager in all of sci-fi/fantasty than Connor. He has set the bar that some have tried to surpass, but never clear like this whiny bitch does on a daily basis.

**************************************************
"We have five million Cybermen. How many are you?"
"Four"
You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?"
"We would destroy the Cybermen with ONE Dalek. You are superior in only one respect."
"What is that?"
"You are better at dying."

Trash talk between a Cyberman and a Dalek. It doesn't get any better than that.

DAYVE

Tuesday, November 7, 2006 3:32 PM

I agree... not one of Whedon's best characters...

AMYEL

Tuesday, November 7, 2006 4:04 PM

Of course he was whiny. He grew up in hell. That just couldn't have been a pleasant childhood.

I thought Connor was annoying too, but there was no way he could be anything else. He was kidnapped and raised in a hell dimension by a bitter man who was determine to wreak bloody vengeance on the kid's father. No one who grows up like that is going to be a positive cheerful person.

He's not my least favorite character. Mine might be Mrs. SamBot "I am so AWESOME and understanding!" Finn.

CYBERSNARK

Tuesday, November 7, 2006 7:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
Because there has never been a more whinier teenager in all of sci-fi/fantasty than Connor.

You obviously haven't met Chad "Kicker" Jones from Transformers: Energon.

Whiny I can tolerate, but Kicker I honestly wanted to die.

EVERYTHING he said was in HYSTERICS!!!!111!!

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

DEEPGIRL187

Tuesday, November 7, 2006 9:39 PM

I have to agree with Amyel. There was no other way for Connor to be, especially with his upbringing. And personally, I thought he was pretty cool during season five. He was finally able to resolve the feelings he had toward Angel. And if you want to talk about the worst character ever, my vote goes to Glory. Season five of Buffy would have kicked even more ass were it not for her.

*************************************************

"So long and goodnight."

13

Wednesday, November 8, 2006 4:58 AM

I'm not gonna get into Connor, but my worst character?

That little turd Gavin. Grr...

jk. Love Daniel Dae Kim.

13

Wednesday, November 8, 2006 5:06 AM

testing

wrong thread, but I just can't bring myself to take a stroll in troll country.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, November 8, 2006 5:06 AM

Snarf from Thundercats was pretty frackin whiney.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

13

Wednesday, November 8, 2006 5:10 AM

Don't speak ill of the dead!

And the Chinese stewed...

(Ah, my first Robot Chicken reference!)

DAX82

Wednesday, November 8, 2006 5:36 AM

I cant believe you didnt like Glory. I loved Glory, I thought she was one of the best characters and is part of the reason why season 5 was my favorite.Was it the character itself that you didnt like or the actress. Who would you have play Glory?

DAX82

Wednesday, November 8, 2006 5:41 AM

Im sorry but if I grew up in hell I would be a psycho , not a whiny little bitch. Not only was he a whiny little bitch but he was just plain stupid. Theres no excuse for that. I have Connors auto card and even looking at that pisses me off.

DEEPGIRL187

Wednesday, November 8, 2006 4:56 PM

I didn't like Glory because I couldn't take her seriously as a bad guy. God or no, she wasn't the type to inspire fear for me. Angelus, Willow, The First Evil, or God help me, even the Master and Adam were more evil and frightening for me and the characters as well. Glory was a selfish airhead with a shoe fetish. In my opinion, she didn't really deserve the title of big bad, no matter how much damage she caused.

*************************************************

"So long and goodnight."

13

Wednesday, November 8, 2006 8:22 PM

Doc was scarier.

ZEEK

Wednesday, November 8, 2006 9:37 PM

You wanna talk bad characters? Go watch Season 2 of Lost. Not one character has any consistancy through the season. They don't develope. They just flop around like fish out of water. I especially hated Ana Lucia. Even the basis for her character was pretty bad.

Connor I didn't mind much. Sure he was easily manipulated but think about it, the only human he previously knew was his father (well holtz pretending to be his father...whatever). I'm sure he just grew up inherently trusting other people like they were his parents.

JWHEDONADDICT

Saturday, November 18, 2006 2:54 PM

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I disagree.
I had my own problems with Connor, mainly it was what he did to Angel by sinking him to the bottom of the ocean which I never got past until the series was over and I re-watched them (how's THAT for a run-on sentence, Fredikins!). However, now that my emotions about that aren't as fresh as they once were, I'm not as blinded by them anymore. If Joss were to say tomorrow that he's creating a spinoff Connor trilogy, well, I'm SO there!!!

JWHEDONADDICT

Saturday, November 18, 2006 3:03 PM

Hello, Connor WAS a psycho! Remember the last several eps. of Season 4? But it was around then (right before Angel slashed his throat) that I started to really sympathize with him. Up till then, it had all been about sinking Angel to the bottom of the ocean, not feeling remorse for that and those he put in danger because Angel couldn't be there to help them and finally, being ready to murder the rest of the group for Jasmine, even though he knew she was a lie. Now that Connor is more well-adjusted and has both real and fake memories, it'd be interesting to see the character continue. I'm all for a spinoff!!!!!!!!

DAX82

Saturday, November 18, 2006 8:13 PM

Your words actually made my eye twitch. By far Connor was the biggest bitch in the history of television(thats right HISTORY) If that nerd Connor got his own spinoff I would throw up and start a fire. I have no understanding of people who like or sympathize for Connor. This ones for you Connor

JWHEDONADDICT

Saturday, November 18, 2006 8:43 PM

Your response made me laugh...thanks for that.

JWHEDONADDICT

Saturday, November 18, 2006 9:00 PM

I really never understood the point of the Ana Lucia character on Lost. The producers kept saying all along that it was going to be a quadrangle type thing with Kate, Sawyer and Jack, yet she never showed any interest in any of them unless she wanted something else. I feel like we were given mixed signals about her and the end result was that the whole thing backfired because no one cared anymore. I couldn't even care that she killed Shannon because they waited until it was too late to make HER a sympathetic character.

MISSTRESSAHARA

Sunday, November 19, 2006 5:02 AM

There can be no contest about the most whiney bitchy "I wish I could bitch slap him with my brain" character.

Wesley Crusher.

Even his name makes me cringe. Hopefully the Borg can assimilate that little turd.

That felt good.

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

MRBLUESUN

Sunday, November 19, 2006 8:49 PM

I completely agree with all those of you who said that Connor was an irritating, whiny little S.O.B. I mean sure he was raised in a hell dimension by some bitter old man who kidnapped him at birth but that,my dear friends, is an opening for angst and anger NOT a cue to bee the a whinging little bastard.
Mind you as bad as Connor is he is not the worst. For my money its got to be that hamster faced assistant of the ninth and tenth incarnation of Dr Who, Rose Tyler.
I mean...my god the fact that they allowed the Doctor to travel through space and time with a freakin chav was bad enough, but on top of that the actress who played her (Billy Piper) gawked and yawped more than Julia Roberts and the character itself was frankly two dimensional.
Not one of Russel T Davies best ideas.

'Oh brave new world, that hath such people in it' from Shakespeare's 'The Tempest'

THESOMNAMBULIST

Sunday, December 10, 2006 11:34 PM

Connor takes the biscuit. Not the actors fault, the character was just poorly written and the arc lacked vision.

It also confined the Angel mythos to a very insular plane - which took some doing to write it out of.

www.cirqus.com

SHANNARA

Sunday, December 10, 2006 11:49 PM

it's threads like this that make the internet such a great place. :D
some of those posts are truly quite hilarious and i thank you all for the chuckle.

i hated connor. but not with the loathing displayed by others. i ended up hating cordelia as well, and i pretty much blame the show for her destruction.

also, wesley crusher irritated the snot out of me.

however.... my favourite show of all time produced the worst two f'ing characters of all time in shannara-land. buffy took a big nose-dive with the awful awful dear-god tell me it's a mistake, i can't believe you did this to me, introduction of DAWN and TARA. i've never wanted to slap someone for stuttering before, but i was sorely pressed to refrain from throwing objects at the television.

THEY RUINED MY FAVOURITE SHOW!!!!

and finally, Dawn was about to throw herself into a magical vortex of cast deletion, and what happens? buffy jumps instead. nooooooooooooo!!!!! the double horror!!

they finally killed off t-t-t-tara (i don't make fun of people who stutter, honestly, but her fake stutter was insufferable) but by then the damage was done.

ok ok ok, one caveat. my favourite two episodes of all time were "once more with feeling" and "tabula rasa" and tara was front and centre in both and was absolutely marvellous, in "once more with feeling" in particular.

so i officially nominate dawn for the whiney bitch award.

SHANNARA

Sunday, December 10, 2006 11:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dax82:
Your words actually made my eye twitch. By far Connor was the biggest bitch in the history of television(thats right HISTORY) If that nerd Connor got his own spinoff I would throw up and start a fire. I have no understanding of people who like or sympathize for Connor. This ones for you Connor

ah shit, i laughed even harder reading this a second time.

DRU

Wednesday, December 13, 2006 1:18 AM

I liked Connor. I didn't care too much for Dawn. The worst actress was probably the woman who played Rileys wife Sam on Buffy.

CHARLENE

Thursday, December 21, 2006 8:55 PM

I like Connor.
Think about what he went through! He was a totally believable character. When I think about it, I don't remember ever being annoyed with him!

--------------------------------------------------

I am 94% Like River Tam

The Fugitive. You are clever and dangerous, which is a nasty combination.
The fact you are crazy too just adds to your charm.
They did bad things to you, but you know their secrets.
They will regret how they made you.

--------------------------------------------------

THEREALME

Thursday, December 21, 2006 10:30 PM

I tolerated Conner until he participated in the murder of an innocent. I could excuse the rest, but this was something even HOltz would have objected to.

However, he has become a useful non-role model. I am watching Buffy and Angel with a friend and her 13-year-old boy. WHenever the boy gets in trouble I can say, "Hey, remember when Conner did xxxx? Well..."

CHARLENE

Friday, December 22, 2006 1:58 AM

but he didn't really "participate", did he? Cordy or should I say Jasmine killed the poor girl, Conner didn't know what to do, he couldn't deal with the situation. I like to believe that he would'e freed the girl if Cordy wouldn't have come and killed her.

--------------------------------------------------

I am 94% Like River Tam

The Fugitive. You are clever and dangerous, which is a nasty combination.
The fact you are crazy too just adds to your charm.
They did bad things to you, but you know their secrets.
They will regret how they made you.

--------------------------------------------------

THEMANTHEYCALLEDJAMES

Sunday, December 24, 2006 9:22 AM

agreed....the second Darla showed up to Angel's crib pregnant.....it was the start of some really stupid storylines

shame S3 already had some actuall good things happening ...maybe if they focused on the conflict between Holtz and Angel instead of the contrived Vamp kid the second half of S3 would have worked out.

Also Darla's death was one of the LAMEST in tv history...one killing her was corny just based on the fact that she had already been killed (they revived) 3 other times also she was SUCH a great villian if she died it need to be in a showdown with Angel...not in his arms (pregnant come on) trying to be sympathetic

They only Connor episode I liked was at the VERY END of Seaosn5 (when everyone gets their memory back)

DRU

Thursday, February 8, 2007 8:16 PM

I still like Connor. Wish Angel got another season to see an episode or two with a well adjusted Connor and his relationship with his father.

On the topic of whiny characters, I would say Adric, the fifth's Doctor companion. I was very happy when he blew up. Wesley Crusher from Star Trek the Next Generation. I never liked Dawn's character from Buffy, although season 7 was the best for her character.

DRU

Thursday, February 8, 2007 8:16 PM

I still like Connor. Wish Angel got another season to see an episode or two with a well adjusted Connor and his relationship with his father.

On the topic of whiny characters, I would say Adric, the fifth's Doctor companion. I was very happy when he blew up. Wesley Crusher from Star Trek the Next Generation. I never liked Dawn's character from Buffy, although season 7 was the best for her character.

CLJOHNSTON108

Sunday, February 11, 2007 7:21 PM

I actually haven't watched TV since Babylon 5 ended in '98, just DVDs of shows I hear a lot of great things about.

Watched Seasons 2&3 of Buffy, and I managed to see the first couple of episodes of Angel at a friend's house, but that was it.
Haven't had the money to buy the DVDs of both shows.
Found Season 1 of Buffy (from the box set) for $12.99, so that's a start.

I was curious about the "puppet" business, so I read the transcripts of the eps from "Smile Time" on to the end.

Having said all of that, I kinda liked Connor, at least in "Origin"!

I really dug the scene where he's getting ready to fight Sahjahn.

When he says "You can take a moment, if you want. There's some weapons and stuff over here if you think you'll need them," and Sahjahn says "Thanks," it sorta reminded me of The Princess Bride, right before Inigo & The Man in Black/Westley fought.

Hearing all your comments, though, I'm almost afraid to fill in the rest of the blanks in my Buffyverse knowledge!

________________________

"Spry for a dead fella!"

EMBERS

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 7:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dax82:
Your words actually made my eye twitch. By far Connor was the biggest bitch in the history of television(thats right HISTORY) If that nerd Connor got his own spinoff I would throw up and start a fire. I have no understanding of people who like or sympathize for Connor. This ones for you Connor

but have you watched season 5 Connor yet?
I thought they redeemed him well!

And I hated Glory, I can barely stand Buffy's season 5 because I just thought that character was so lame...

RIVER6213

Monday, February 26, 2007 4:40 PM

I really disliked the character Conner. The only time I came near to liking him was:

1. He 1st showed up from that vortex, and killed that creature and immediately started attacking Angel and company.

2. When Connor told Jasmine that he loved her and then killed her.

3. When The man they all called Jayne was beating the stuffing out of Angel and Connor showed up and started slapping Jayne around until Jayne kicked him into the wall. This gave Angel enough time to attack again.

Besides all of those scenes the Connor character really wasn't worth much of anything. I guess being all broody, whiny and annoying, plus being a back-stabbing little creepoid, not to mention off-shore dumping of daddy is a good indication that being raised in a hell dimension is bad for you.

-River

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

Wednesday, April 4, 2007 7:52 PM

We haven't seen all of season 5 yet -- so far Connor's been magically transplanted into a normal family and we haven't seen him since -- so I can't say anything about his eventual redemption (based on what previous posters have said).

What I can say is that I've gritted my teeth through the teenage angst of all of Connor, Dawn and Buffy in their time. Yes, I know it's more or less a normal phase of human development, and yes, I agree that Connor had such an incredibly lousy, abusive childhood that he can't be blamed for his particularly extreme manifestation of it, but it's still incredibly annoying to wait for them to grow out of it.

So. If Connor gets to grow out of his angst during season 5, I'm relieved to hear it. I was very happy to see Dawn growing up substantially during season 7 of Buffy -- it redeemed her character in my eyes.

As for Buffy, I suppose she wasn't actually a teenager at the time, but the "thing" that I waited impatiently for her to grow out of was her torment over her BDSM relationship with Spike during season 5 of Buffy. I kept shouting at the screen, "It's not a big deal. It's just a slightly kinky, mostly physical sexual relationship with an entirely willing partner with no illusions as to your emotional commitment here. It doesn't mean your moral core is crumbling. Relax!"

Whew. I didn't realize how much I wanted to get that off my chest :)

All that said, I've really enjoyed both shows and would like to give all props to Joss et al.

Indigo S.

RIVER6213

Wednesday, April 4, 2007 9:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by IndigoStarblaster:
We haven't seen all of season 5 yet -- so far Connor's been magically transplanted into a normal family and we haven't seen him since -- so I can't say anything about his eventual redemption (based on what previous posters have said).

What I can say is that I've gritted my teeth through the teenage angst of all of Connor, Dawn and Buffy in their time. Yes, I know it's more or less a normal phase of human development, and yes, I agree that Connor had such an incredibly lousy, abusive childhood that he can't be blamed for his particularly extreme manifestation of it, but it's still incredibly annoying to wait for them to grow out of it.

So. If Connor gets to grow out of his angst during season 5, I'm relieved to hear it. I was very happy to see Dawn growing up substantially during season 7 of Buffy -- it redeemed her character in my eyes.

As for Buffy, I suppose she wasn't actually a teenager at the time, but the "thing" that I waited impatiently for her to grow out of was her torment over her BDSM relationship with Spike during season 5 of Buffy. I kept shouting at the screen, "It's not a big deal. It's just a slightly kinky, mostly physical sexual relationship with an entirely willing partner with no illusions as to your emotional commitment here. It doesn't mean your moral core is crumbling. Relax!"

Whew. I didn't realize how much I wanted to get that off my chest :)

All that said, I've really enjoyed both shows and would like to give all props to Joss et al.

Indigo S.

Yes, I agree that given enough time Connor would have developed into a much better character. I just got tired of all his drama and anger. The brat could clearly see that Angel was trying to do his best. If Angel was truly bad as Connor's step-father told him, Connor would have been able to figure it out in short order, but the kid wasn't even going to listen in the begining, so Angel had to beat him up a few times, or catch a bullet in the chest before Connor suddnely realized that maybe what he was told about Angel might have been a lie.

Dawn from BtVS annoyed me in the beginning, but in her case I sort of liked her. I really liked her later on when she got older. You have to admit that Dawn developed into a couragous character worthy of bearing the name "Summer."

-River

MRBLUESUN

Wednesday, April 4, 2007 9:38 PM

My God is this thread still going?!!

I may wear brown, but theres a little purple mixed in there too.

SERENITYINSCOTLAND

Friday, April 6, 2007 11:38 AM

Gotta say, first time through Conner did my head in - I was with the 'I hate Conner crowd' all the way.

Just in the process of watching Angel from start to finish again (midway through season 5). And now I hold my hand up - I was wrong.

He's a great character. He was manipulated his whole life by Holtz, Justine and Cordelia/Jasmine. He doesn't have the same moral compass as the rest of us because noone has ever taught him about right and wrong. Sure Angel gave a couple of preachy speeches about being a champion, but never had a chance to properly teach him. And considering all this, even with all the awful things hes done (don't include sinking Angel - he was tricked into thinking he was evil), he still makes the right choice in the end and kills Jasmine. And once he has a moral compass in season 5 based on his fake life, his character got a much more positive reaction from the fanbase.

His reaction to Angel's line in 'Spin the Bottle' "I never asked to be born" says a lot for me. And his wrenching line in 'Home' almost had me in tears this time through.
"Can't be save by a lie. Can't be saved at all"

DANIELFYRE

Monday, April 9, 2007 12:33 PM

I have mixed feelings about Conner's character. When he was initially introduced I thought it would be a cool idea for Angel to be a father and be able to have some type of real attachment to someone who if he got close wouldn't ultimately lead to his reverting to Angelus. As far as Connor's winnyness well yeah he did live in a hell demension raised by a guy who essentially stole him out of revenge he took the whole whinning to a new level. Early on its understandable, but that doesn't make it any less annoying. Also I would agree that given the way he was raised that he would be more broody as opposed to whinny. The post-new life Conner was a far more tolerable dare I say even likeable character for me. I think Joss wrote himself into a pickle with Conner's development and the only way to get him out of it was pretty much pulling that whole new life hiatus for him. In the end I could deal with Conner.

One character I however hated EVERYTHING about was/is Dawn. I think beyond the annoyingness of her was the way she was dropped into the series. I'm sorry but that has got to be Joss's worst writting ever. The whole idea of her just pissed me off. One second she's not there then bam annoying brat in the living room, what the hell? I honestly thought that the mistake would've been realized and "taken care of" by now but no into season 8 the brat is still alive and pissing me off...I hate you Dawn (Michelle Trachtenburg remains hot though...)

-Daniel Fyre

"real men juggle geese"

SHANNARA

Monday, April 9, 2007 1:54 PM

thank you thank you thank you!!!

although i didn't actually mind the cool way she was written into the storyline, i absolutely loathed the character herself, and it really really lessened my enjoyment of the show. i've been bitter about it for years now, as some here can probably attest to already.

look! over there. it's dawn up against a wall!

"A ship like this, be with you until the day you die"

EMPIREX

Monday, April 9, 2007 4:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DRU:
I liked Connor. I didn't care too much for Dawn. The worst actress was probably the woman who played Rileys wife Sam on Buffy.

LOL! That's what happens when they let super-models act...

RIVER6213

Monday, April 9, 2007 7:31 PM

I totally could not stand the character called Drucilla. she was so beyond annoying, and to have her kill a slayer with her fingernails?!!?? My hate for that character expanded 10-fold after that. Drucilla was by far the worst character in the Jossverse.

-River

DANIELFYRE

Wednesday, April 11, 2007 11:02 PM

Sorry but I just have to say that I liked Dru. I think she was a cool character. Even though she rambled without meaning (or at least it seemed) everything she said had depth to it. If you pay attention she tells the future in metaphor constantly, and the dialogue was fun to listen to in that you'd (or at least I would) constantly be trying to figure out what she was saying beyond what she was saying. I liked River from Firefly in that way too. Maybe I just have something for the fairly attractive (if not downright hot) crazy chicks (actually that sorta explains my current love intrest, but I digress...) I don't know I think Dru is a character that is overlooked because of her ramblings and almost imp-ish nature but I like the character that way. Anyone feel free to rebuttle.

-DanielFyre

"real men juggle geese"

P.S. - I just realized your username and signature is River...which really surprises me 'cause seeing that I'd think you'd like Dru in the same way you obviously like River.

SABRI3L

Wednesday, April 11, 2007 11:15 PM

Fuck! I'm watching the show for the first time now. I didn't know they lost Cordeilia!

*--------------------------------------------*
Forsaken Knitter of Cunning Jayne Hats

Hell on wheels

Come" target="_BLANK">http://www.cafepress.com/teaanddumplings">Come visit my store on CafePress!

RIVER6213

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 3:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sabri3l:
Fuck! I'm watching the show for the first time now. I didn't know they lost Cordeilia!

*--------------------------------------------*
Forsaken Knitter of Cunning Jayne Hats

Hell on wheels

Come" target="_BLANK">http://www.cafepress.com/teaanddumplings">Come visit my store on CafePress!

Cordy's death bothered me also.

-River

FEITY

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:52 PM

I think they noticed their mistake with season 4 connor, so they made shiny new season 5 connor cool and acceptable.

Willow's a demon!?

WOLFPOET

Monday, April 23, 2007 12:20 AM

I'm only watched 2 episodes of Angel so far, and I started in the middle of an unknown season, so it's really confusing. But coincidentally, the 2nd episode I watched had Connor killing that demon in it. This is the first time I've seen him and he annoyed the hell out of me.
And yes, Kyle, 'tis I. Drat, they need a hug icon. *hugs*

"I thought it would be nice to lie down and close my eyes. It never occurred to me that I am already asleep." - "Enigma" by Trapt

This is very River, don't you think?

RIVER6213

Monday, April 23, 2007 5:12 AM

STOP!

You got to go back and watch them in order!

-River

GIRLYBILLY

Wednesday, May 9, 2007 2:43 AM

yeah i really hated dawns character too like super whinny and not teenagery at all like buffy had teenager problems and vampire promblems at that age but they where really and she didn't go around whinning. dawn made the whole girl powerness of the show less girly power and more whinny power. i see the need for a family firgure when joyce died but could have giles or willow or xander filled that roles, they kind of did but could they have without dawn. and when she was first introduced you where like wtf it was bad. sorry i'm sure michelle is a nice person but dawn's presense writing and acting where bad!! really bad!!

girly billy
but more girly then billy

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN

Wednesday, May 9, 2007 3:14 AM

Agreed! I couldn't stand the little punk.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Wednesday, May 9, 2007 3:21 AM

I am with Shanara on this one. Dawn SUCKED. I will say no more on that, because no more words are needed.

Now, I hated Tara, because she was insipid, but mostly I hated the implication that if a man does you wrong you can just "turn into" a lesbian and life is good. There was absolutely no indication that Willow might be gay UNTIL Oz broke her heart.

Oh and can I just say that I really wasn't found of the whole Jasmine thing either, although Gina ROCKED!

---- plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose

Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre, Owner of a too big Turnippy smelling coat with MR scratched in the neck (thanks FollowMal!)

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

REGINAROADIE

Wednesday, May 9, 2007 3:44 AM

While I had no problem with Tara, I do agree with that sentiment. It seemed really random and arbitrary for Willow to suddenly switch teams. And the implication that Oz now has (that now not only is he a werewolf, but that he's basically George from SEINFELD who drives women to lesbianism) kind of turns him from a cool guy to a schmuck.

**************************************************
"Have you ever fired two guns whilst jumping through the air?"
"No."
"Have you ever fired ONE gun whilst jumping through the air?"

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Wednesday, May 9, 2007 3:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
While I had no problem with Tara, I do agree with that sentiment. It seemed really random and arbitrary for Willow to suddenly switch teams. And the implication that Oz now has (that now not only is he a werewolf, but that he's basically George from SEINFELD who drives women to lesbianism) kind of turns him from a cool guy to a schmuck.

**************************************************
"Have you ever fired two guns whilst jumping through the air?"
"No."
"Have you ever fired ONE gun whilst jumping through the air?"

I never thought of that. Ewwwww. And Oz was cool. When he left there was a definately hole in the show.

I have become really militant about how the world see's gays because of my son, and that whole plotline really bothered me. Now hod there been an inkling all along, well okay then. And a girl that age would have an inkling.

---- plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose

Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre, Owner of a too big Turnippy smelling coat with MR scratched in the neck (thanks FollowMal!)

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

RIVER6213

Wednesday, May 9, 2007 9:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
I am with Shanara on this one. Dawn SUCKED. I will say no more on that, because no more words are needed.

Now, I hated Tara, because she was insipid.

Oh and can I just say that I really wasn't found of the whole Jasmine thing either, although Gina ROCKED!

Dawn did suck at the start, but later her character started to develop in a direction I learned to like. Dawn stopped the whining spree later on and from then on I liked her.

Tara's character was "insipid" only because the writers didn't give her full depth. She was allowed to be a character without a lot of explanation of who and what she was, or believed, and this left it up to the viewing audience to extrapolate from the personality set,or read into the personality set that was provided to the audience.

I personally liked Tara. She seemed sweet, sensitive, and humble. Also I've known other women who have been in so-called straight relationship with guys, and then after a major divorce, or break up find themselves dating women. These women didn't really know themselves that they had gay tendencies until they were put into a situation that brought it out of them. Maybe this is what happened to Willow?

I don't know why but I didn't like the Oz character at all. I didn't hate him, but I really didn't connect with him. I guess I really don't like "one-liner" guys. I like guys who know how to express themselves, and Oz was not one of them. I was glad when he broke up with Willow.

I loved the whole Jasmine episodes. I think I even started a thread regarding this, but it seems that most people thought that losing their self-will to Jasmine was the worse thing on Earth where as I thought it was a boon to humanity. Go Figure. The fact that you are made totally happy to the point where you wouldn't mind if she ate you seems like a good idea to me. You are so happy you are not afraid to die. Personally I think humanity would have been better off with Jasmine, but that's just my personal opinion.

-River

GIRLYBILLY

Thursday, May 10, 2007 1:19 AM

i think that willow was straight and thought she was and then because of tara she became a lesbian she said that to kenedy it wasn't like she knew it was tara that made her know

girly billy but more girly then billy

GOMITHROUS

Thursday, May 10, 2007 2:04 AM

I don't personally "hate" any of the characters, I feel like I can connect with them all in some way, or at least see where they're coming from.

Connor and Dawn were both pretty annoying around their introductions but they both really grew up over the seasons. Considering that each show had the "whiny teenager" aspect, I'm not sure we can totally be sure it wasn't intentional, their behaviour became very important parts of their respective plot-lines.

As for Tara. First off it's not true that Willow just decided to be gay with no lead up, does nobody remember Vamp-Willow, "Evil, slutty and kinda gay"? For season 4 and 5 she was pretty much just "Willow's girlfriend" but I never hated her even as that. After she and Willow broke up though you really got to know her character and she was pretty cool. She was still all sweet and sensitive but in less "dire need of speech therapy" but she also had guts and was a pretty strong woman (no I will not say "like an Amazon"). Plus the whole "Can we just skip it?" speech was hilarious and it made her death that much sadder. But it wasn't unexpected, I mean c'mon we all know Joss, Tara and Willow were happy and when people are happy on his shows somebody dies or turns evil, in this case both.

Incase you haven't realized, I'm a big Tara fan.

Cordy during the whole Angel/Cordy sorta-kinda-thing was annoying. It kind of ruined the whole idea of Angel, Angel just isn't Angel without the broody aspect. He has teh stupid gypsy curse so that he can suffer eternal torment and guilt and stuff right? Then he falls in love with Buffy but he can't be with her, which equals broody. Cordy being his pseudo love intrest ruins it a bit, since when was moving-on a part of eternal suffering?

Okay, I think I'm done now...

"Rational thought, it's an aquired taste"

MINIME

Thursday, May 10, 2007 4:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
I am with Shanara on this one. Dawn SUCKED. I will say no more on that, because no more words are needed.

Now, I hated Tara, because she was insipid.

Oh and can I just say that I really wasn't found of the whole Jasmine thing either, although Gina ROCKED!

Dawn did suck at the start, but later her character started to develop in a direction I learned to like. Dawn stopped the whining spree later on and from then on I liked her.

Tara's character was "insipid" only because the writers didn't give her full depth. She was allowed to be a character without a lot of explanation of who and what she was, or believed, and this left it up to the viewing audience to extrapolate from the personality set,or read into the personality set that was provided to the audience.

I personally liked Tara. She seemed sweet, sensitive, and humble. Also I've known other women who have been in so-called straight relationship with guys, and then after a major divorce, or break up find themselves dating women. These women didn't really know themselves that they had gay tendencies until they were put into a situation that brought it out of them. Maybe this is what happened to Willow?

I don't know why but I didn't like the Oz character at all. I didn't hate him, but I really didn't connect with him. I guess I really don't like "one-liner" guys. I like guys who know how to express themselves, and Oz was not one of them. I was glad when he broke up with Willow.

I loved the whole Jasmine episodes. I think I even started a thread regarding this, but it seems that most people thought that losing their self-will to Jasmine was the worse thing on Earth where as I thought it was a boon to humanity. Go Figure. The fact that you are made totally happy to the point where you wouldn't mind if she ate you seems like a good idea to me. You are so happy you are not afraid to die. Personally I think humanity would have been better off with Jasmine, but that's just my personal opinion.

-River

I didn't see your other thread... I sort of hang around sporadically... but I thought that the Jasmine concept was the only redeeming feature of Season 4. I thought it was a great moral dilemma - what would you choose? Unreality and possibly evil, but happiness and contentment, or truth and harshness and angst and still, eventually, death? I don't know, for myself, and I suspect that I would probably vacillate between the two.
Sometimes we get to choose between the two, sometimes the choice is made for us, sometimes we choose so subconsciously we aren't aware of it...
But that's a great thought, which I will not probably keep ruminating on all day...
Thank you.

RIVER6213

Thursday, May 10, 2007 4:15 AM

I guess another reason why I didn't like the Connor character was I personally thought that they picked the wrong actor to play him. He seemed way too feminine. He should have been a little harder around the edges and a "silent type" who didn't talk very much, but acted. He should have had difficulty in expressing himself because I mean the kid WAS brought up in a hell dimension after all. Am I the only one who thinks this?

The whole idea of Jasmine appealed too me, and made me think of a Christian story regarding why God created man. It seemed God wanted a creation that worshiped him using their own free will. All of his other creations worshiped him because they were hard-wired to worship him. The thought of this appealed to me because the idea of choice was removed, and I would follow Jasmine without ever even thinking "should I or shouldn't I" It would be hard-wired into me and all I would have to do is follow the program and I would be happy. I would be happy always, and the burden of decisions and choices would be up to someone else. This appeals to me, and I think that humanity would have been better off. I mean look at the result of our choices and acts of self will...death, pain, suffering, destruction, misery, and of course the occasional act of goodness, or maybe some one comes up with a cure for some disease that's been giving humanity a rough time, but on the whole...the default position of humanity is pain, suffering, destruction, misery, and this is how we grow. I rather have Jasmine running the show but Connor killed her so I better just shut up.

-River

THATWEIRDGIRL

Thursday, May 10, 2007 5:38 AM

I've just finished S4. I can't comment on what Connor becomes because all I know him as is troubled Connor. Yeah, he was annoying. Sometimes I felt it was justified and expected. But mostly I thought he was unfocused and moody. It seemed he wanted so much for those 16 years of believing his father was evil to be true that he would create situations where Angel had to be an ass. Gah.

On the Jasmine front: Kill me if you're going to take away my right to free will. I don't care if I would be happy, I wouldn't be me. If there's ever going to be peace on earth, I'd like it to be our doing not some god's magic smile. Don't get me wrong, I'd do Gina, but no way I'd let her take away my choice to do her.

---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown

MINIME

Friday, May 11, 2007 2:54 AM

I didn't think personally that Connor was effeminate, just pre-pubescent and whiny.
As for Jasmine, I think that one of the interesting things about it was that afterwards, there was a big question mark over whether or not they had done the right thing. They clearly thought so, but not everyone agreed...

RIVER6213

Friday, May 11, 2007 3:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
I've just finished S4. I can't comment on what Connor becomes because all I know him as is troubled Connor. Yeah, he was annoying. Sometimes I felt it was justified and expected. But mostly I thought he was unfocused and moody. It seemed he wanted so much for those 16 years of believing his father was evil to be true that he would create situations where Angel had to be an ass. Gah.

On the Jasmine front: Kill me if you're going to take away my right to free will. I don't care if I would be happy, I wouldn't be me.

Oh, that's okay. You are entitled to your opinion regarding Jasmine, and if you're dying because you don't want to share in Jasmine's love, and are so intent on being you then, so be it; jedi. Now, don't even think of trying to run!

"With a mean, and somewhat sadistic smile on her face, River6213 picks up the big, rusty axe and eyes Thatweirdgirl. Thatweirdgirl realizes that River6213 is serious, and she actually tries to flee the scene, but before she can even make it out the door River6213 jumps on her back and chops off her head and is satisfied by the wet, thunk sound that her head makes as it hits the floor..."

"That'll learn her" River6213 thinks.

*Yawn*

-River

THATWEIRDGIRL

Friday, May 11, 2007 3:15 AM

*gurgle*

---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown

THESOMNAMBULIST

Saturday, May 12, 2007 9:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dax82:
I think the show went downhill as soon as they introduced pain in the ass Connor. As soon as he was out of the picture the show was great again, except for losing Cordelia.

Sure Connor was annoying but wasn't he suppose to be? Was he not designed for that very dynamic within the show? I don't think he was the reason for the shows downward spiral though, it felt more like the writers were struggling with the extended seasonal arc - which though brave, was maybe a little weak to sustain through 25 epsiodes. This on top of the fact that it was now the 3rd season and lets face it ideas were being repeated.

www.cirqus.com

THATWEIRDGIRL

Saturday, May 12, 2007 11:25 PM

*from a pool of blood, she waves at Ric*

---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown

THESOMNAMBULIST

Sunday, May 13, 2007 1:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
*from a pool of blood, she waves at Ric*

---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown

From some very cool dark circuit board I wave back. :D - (I seem to be able to access the site at last! When the silicon chip gods allow.)

How are you TWG? I miss our frequent japes into surreal banter and observations of life on it's side.

I'm glad to see you are still around. I feared I'd lose touch with you and other good folk here. I seem to have some sort of Bermuda Triangle thing going on here with this site. INSTRUMENTS GO CRAZY and I seem unable to find the place....

Anyway I'll be thankfull for this moment if only to see you wave :D

*Sends smoke signals*

www.cirqus.com

MALBADINLATIN

Friday, June 22, 2007 5:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dax82:
I think the show went downhill as soon as they introduced pain in the ass Connor. As soon as he was out of the picture the show was great again, except for losing Cordelia.

I just started watching Angel about a month ago, and you are soooo right. Connor was a poorly casted, poorly acting character. No redeeming qualities. He was annoying when he was supposed to be wise and insightfull, and annoying when he was naive like with Cordy and that baby thing. I'm watching those reruns on TNT right now and yesterday Cordy give birth to Zoey and it's freaking me out. Glad to hear it get's better though

"How drunk was I last night?"
"I don't know I passed out"

LEXAN

Sunday, July 1, 2007 9:01 AM

Connor is actually my favourite character in all of Angel. I thought he was excellently cast, excellently acted and excellently written. He was so real and, yes, deeply flawed, but I found this refreshing. I was still sympathetic to what happened to him and could always see why he did the things he did.

I could go into a much deeper and more intricate explation but it would be so involved I really can't be bothered right now...

MALBADINLATIN

Monday, July 2, 2007 5:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lexan:
Connor is actually my favourite character in all of Angel. I thought he was excellently cast, excellently acted and excellently written. He was so real and, yes, deeply flawed, but I found this refreshing. I was still sympathetic to what happened to him and could always see why he did the things he did.

I could go into a much deeper and more intricate explation but it would be so involved I really can't be bothered right now..

Wow...touchy touchy.

If you're not on Malbadinlatin's side, you're with the terrorists.