Firefly- The Animated Series

POSTED BY: Mangolo
UPDATED: Friday, February 2, 2007 15:08
VIEWED: 35486
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MANGOLO

Wednesday, January 10, 2007 10:17 PM

Aloha!

I am an animation Producer (a Firefly fan as well) and am wondering what percentage of you would watch an animated continuation of the story where the movie left off? It would use the same actors voicing the characters.

I don't think it would be difficult to get backing for this given the huge fan base. We'd just have to get Joss on board to write and do the voice direction.

I'm going to Sundance Film Festival this year to promote my film strange frame. I'd like to know if you fans support an animated series or not - then I can try to see if I can get to Joss at the Fest.

]Is there a way to set up a poll on this forum page?

GB Hajim
Producer / Director
screaming wink productions

SIGMANUNKI

Wednesday, January 10, 2007 10:28 PM

Will that original cast be the voices?

EDIT: There's a "weekly" poll on the front page that has been the same thing since I can remember. It technically could be changed, but you'll have to get Haken to change it (good luck). I'd say, just let this thread be the poll.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

CAPTAINJOSH06

Wednesday, January 10, 2007 10:32 PM

I like the idea, go for it, the "Browncoat Banners" support you!

MANGOLO

Wednesday, January 10, 2007 10:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Will that original cast be the voices?

That is what we'd shoot for. The big issue (besides Fox blowing the promotion of the series) is cost versus audience. Firefly had a solid audience, but not quite large enough to support its big budget (all sci-fi is expensive) We could do the animated series for less than half of the live action budget and still have the same CG work (all the space ship stuff would look exactly the same as the live series)

Let me know if you have more questions or concerns.

TRISTAN

Wednesday, January 10, 2007 10:47 PM

This sounds like a shiny idea. I'll definitely be keeping my eyes open here.

______________________________________
Commanding Officer of the 76th Independent Battalion

Sign up now! http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=11&t=25704
More Information: http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html

SHAMELESS

Wednesday, January 10, 2007 10:50 PM

I dunno, animated seems kinda... eh. Maybe. I dunno how well each character and the chemistry of the ensemble would come through if it wasn't live action.

------------------------------------------
RPG launcher bought in third world country illegally - $10
Landmines - $50 per
Attack/track dogs bred 1st class - $250-500 per
Highpowered assault rifles - $600 per
The look on your face when I show up on your doorstep with a bigfoot - ... Priceless

When watching Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban in theaters:
In the Shrieking Shack, with Sirius Black (Quote #1) and Harry Potter (Quote #2):
"It's Jesus!"
"Harry Potter's the AntiChrist!"

MANGOLO

Wednesday, January 10, 2007 11:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shameless:
I dunno, animated seems kinda... eh. Maybe. I dunno how well each character and the chemistry of the ensemble would come through if it wasn't live action.

We totally appreciate your honesty.

SLOWHAND

Wednesday, January 10, 2007 11:28 PM

I'd love to see that! I'm actually working on a little Firefly annimated story myself. I'm not a producer or anything. Just a guy on a PC with a little knowledge of CG annimation. But to see a proffesionaly done animated Firefly show would be too cool!

DONCOAT

Wednesday, January 10, 2007 11:42 PM

I'd welcome it, but I would hope it would serve as a bridge to more live action (big screen or small).

Some may remember the animated Star Trek series. Aside from its rather poor animation quality, it was actually quite solid, and brought in new science fiction concepts that went beyond the ST-TOS series. For instance, it had a truly non-human character that didn't look like a man in a rubber face prosthesis, and used stories from well-known SF authors like Larry Niven. While those specific items are not applicable to Firefly, the concept is: animation can allow things (like ultra-dangerous stunts) that live action can't.

All in all, it was a very sweet little tidbit that filled a gap (in real time, not so much in fictional time) between the series and the first movie.

I do have a number of concerns, however. First would be to maintain the quality of storytelling of the original. I can't see this going anywhere without Joss (or his blessing), and you'd have to get at least part of the original writing team involved.

Second, you could not target this at children. Firefly was very much an adult themed show and any continuation would have to be the same. I sure don't see FF as a Saturday Morning show (even though the ST animated series was). That's problematic, since the only successful adult-themed animated shows have all been comedies (Flintstones, Simpsons). And the more adult the themes, the less likely the success (witness the struggles of Futurama and Family Guy). So I wonder where a network client would think to slot such a show. Would any take a chance on this in prime time, given the risk?

Third, you say the CG would be the same as on a live action show... but isn't it the CG that's the expensive part? I don't understand the economies here. And how would you fit animated actors into the very realistic CG?

Finally (and no offense), who are you? Do you have a track record in the industry? Have you sold any shows of any kind to anyone, anywhere? The last thing this franchise needs is another perceived failure, and Joss (knowing that) would be unlikely to put his trust and cooperation in some upstart outfit. Now, if you were a Miyazaki-caliber studio, that would be one thing; otherwise...

So as I see it, you face a very tough road full of potholes. If this proposal is anything but pie-in-the-sky, I'm all behind it -- but you'll have to "show me the money" before I get all excited-like.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

SIMONWHO

Wednesday, January 10, 2007 11:52 PM

I'd be interested, particularly if you could make the elements combine well - the look and feel must reflect the series while still being realistic about it being an animated show.

Perhaps you should keep an eye on how well PVP the animated series develops - that has a similar setup with a group of cult fans as well as mainstream potential.

MANGOLO

Wednesday, January 10, 2007 11:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
I'd welcome it, but I would hope it would serve as a bridge to more live action (big screen or small).

Some may remember the animated Star Trek series. Aside from its rather poor animation quality, it was actually quite solid, and brought in new science fiction concepts that went beyond the ST-TOS series. For instance, it had a truly non-human character that didn't look like a man in a rubber face prosthesis, and used stories from well-known SF authors like Larry Niven. While those specific items are not applicable to Firefly, the concept is: animation can allow things (like ultra-dangerous stunts) that live action can't.

All in all, it was a very sweet little tidbit that filled a gap (in real time, not so much in fictional time) between the series and the first movie.

I do have a number of concerns, however. First would be to maintain the quality of storytelling of the original. I can't see this going anywhere without Joss (or his blessing), and you'd have to get at least part of the original writing team involved.

Second, you could not target this at children. Firefly was very much an adult themed show and any continuation would have to be the same. I sure don't see FF as a Saturday Morning show (even though the ST animated series was). That's problematic, since the only successful adult-themed animated shows have all been comedies (Flintstones, Simpsons). And the more adult the themes, the less likely the success (witness the struggles of Futurama and Family Guy). So I wonder where a network client would think to slot such a show. Would any take a chance on this in prime time, given the risk?

Third, you say the CG would be the same as on a live action show... but isn't it the CG that's the expensive part? I don't understand the economies here. And how would you fit animated actors into the very realistic CG?

Finally (and no offense), who are you? Do you have a track record in the industry? Have you sold any shows of any kind to anyone, anywhere? The last thing this franchise needs is another perceived failure, and Joss (knowing that) would be unlikely to put his trust and cooperation in some upstart outfit. Now, if you were a Miyazaki-caliber studio, that would be one thing; otherwise...

So as I see it, you face a very tough road full of potholes. If this proposal is anything but pie-in-the-sky, I'm all behind it -- but you'll have to "show me the money" before I get all excited-like.

I totally understand your concerns:
1. We'd only move forward with Joss and his writing team involved

2. We'd market this to the same audience that FFTOS was targeting. Indeed, this is not a proven animation market. We did fail at our attempts to make a seperate animated TV show with the same demographic, but our financial situation has changed and the venues for the show has changed. Time slots are going to be a secondary market. Downloads and on demand television will be dominant, especially for our market demographic.

3. CG tends to be expensive, but compositing between CG and live action is just as expensive. The blend between the CG and our style of animation seems to work fine. Obviously it wouldn't work with other styles of animation.

4. We are an independent studio. We'd finance this on our own. We have had a track record of successful productions in many parts of the industry. I think waiting for the networks to come around on this show is not realistic nor letting them have any control would be prudent (given the history). We do have connections with Miyazaki's studios, but design would come from ourselves and Jean Moebius Giraud who is working on our current project with us.

AKASHA

Thursday, January 11, 2007 12:05 AM

I would watch it as long as it wasnt Saturday morning garbage. Fox has proved that nightime animated series can work.

MANGOLO

Thursday, January 11, 2007 12:07 AM

Artwork from animation samples below

[IMG]'[/IMG]

Second Image removed by request

This is the style and quality of the animation. This is not your typical cel nor CG work.

BEX

Thursday, January 11, 2007 12:20 AM

Hmmm, it is a very intresting propersion you've put forword, I must confess I like the idear alot, but I, as with everyone here would be worried about it being balled by the network's, if you spin this thing wroung.

It's a nice idear but I can't see it gettin off the ground so to speek, go with my blessing's, but I dont think the network's will go with it.

Still aiming for the impossible is what the BrownCoats are all about
Good Luck with it.
Bex's
xxx

The Operative: Are you willing to die for your beliefs?
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: I am...
[they draw. Mal fires first, and the Operative is forced to take cover]
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: 'Course, that ain't exactly plan A.

BEX

Thursday, January 11, 2007 12:20 AM

Hmmm, it is a very intresting propersion you've put forword, I must confess I like the idear alot, but I, as with everyone here would be worried about it being balled by the network's, if you spin this thing wroung.

It's a nice idear but I can't see it gettin off the ground so to speek, go with my blessing's, but I dont think the network's will go with it.

Still aiming for the impossible is what the BrownCoats are all about
Good Luck with it.
Bex's
xxx

The Operative: Are you willing to die for your beliefs?
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: I am...
[they draw. Mal fires first, and the Operative is forced to take cover]
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: 'Course, that ain't exactly plan A.

SIGMANUNKI

Thursday, January 11, 2007 12:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:

That is what we'd shoot for. The big issue (besides Fox blowing the promotion of the series) is cost versus audience. Firefly had a solid audience, but not quite large enough to support its big budget (all sci-fi is expensive) We could do the animated series for less than half of the live action budget and still have the same CG work (all the space ship stuff would look exactly the same as the live series)

Let me know if you have more questions or concerns.

So, it'll be along the lines of Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, except higher resolution?

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

CYBERSNARK

Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:37 AM

Being a huge animation fan, I'm really excited at the idea.

As you said, it's not a proven demographic in network television, but the success of adult-aimed anime series (Witch Hunter Robin, Ghost in the Shell: Stand-Alone Complex) proves that there is a market for it, and the success of teen-aimed shows (Justice League Unlimited, Avatar: The Last Airbender) demonstrates that long, intricate arcs are possible even in a half-hour serial.

Maybe pitch it to the specialty networks (I can see Cartoon Network or Sci-Fi being interested stateside, and there are Browncoats at Space up here in Canada). As long as Joss and the BDH are available (and the money's good), I can't see them turning it down.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

DOCTROID

Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:03 AM

As far as I'm concerned an animated series would have a lot to prove. An analogy with the Star Trek animated series has been made -- I never saw the animated ST, but it seems to me ST is far less about individual people and more about abstract ideas than Firefly is. Mal, Kaylee, and the rest are, to me, much more rounded, interesting characters than Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. A big part of Firefly's appeal is the degree to which we care about the people in it, and I think it'd be hard to maintain that quality in an animated show.

But not impossible.

I'd watch it. At least long enough to decide whether it worked for me. That is, I'd watch it if (as you say would be the case) Joss and his team were solidly behind it. I wouldn't insist on the original cast, though I'd strongly prefer it.

As to whether I'd support a push to get an animated series made -- maybe. If you could persuade me that doing it would not reduce significantly the chances of getting a new (Joss-backed) live action series or movie.

If you can get past those doubts, I think I'd be a diehard fan of such a show. But... those doubts are not minor ones!

BONANACROIN

Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:25 AM

I am a fan of animation, particularly of CG japaniese anime. I do remember the Star Trek animated series (SO Help ME I'M OLD!) It was nice in and of itself with great storys but it just didn't have the same flavor as the "live show". If such a venture was atempted I would like to make a couple of suggations.
One: The characters, the Ship, and the 'Verse must be painted with the same animated brush-stroke.
Two: The stories need to have some continuity from one episode to the next. When I watch Firefly the next episode takes place where the last episode left off, If Jayne got stabbed in the leg he is limpin the next day unless they were in the black for a couple months. I enjoyed that about the show.
Three: This might sound blasphemous but a possibility might be to have a differant crew. Ow! Should have seen that commin. My reason for this is the fact that Wash and Book are dead, I liked Book but he wasn't intrigal to the crew, Wash on the other hand was not only the best pilot but Zoe's husband. It will be a long story line before I will believe Zoe will smile again.
Thats my take on the idea I hope it was useful.

I died my Browncoat black for those whom hve gone before..

THOLO

Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:34 AM

Sign me up!!!

I just hope it is not the last form of Firefly/Serenity. Ya know, I hope it helps make another movie, tv show or direct to DVD lilve action. But to help fill the void, bring it on!!

Thanks

Keep Flying!!

DARKFLY

Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:43 AM

No matter what company, voice overs, or story I would watch anything Firefly animated.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Things are about to get interesting...Define interesting...Oh GOD oh GOD we're all going to die.

ROY

Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:52 AM

Go for it.

I think this could work provided the original cast did the voices, the animation was of an exceptional standard and the story lines remain at adult levels.

It'd be even better if you resurrect Book & Wash.

DOCTROID

Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:47 AM

Quote:
It'd be even better if you resurrect Book & Wash.

No. As much as I liked these characters, they're dead. And Firefly is about keeping it real. Resurrect them and it's not Firefly, it's just one more "oh, it's science fiction, we can get away with anything" piece of [Chinese].

BROWNCOAT1

Thursday, January 11, 2007 12:23 PM

First off welcome to the site Mangolo! We are glad to have you here and look forward to your participation in discussions. So, make yourself at home. You're amongst friends.

I find your initial post intriguing. To be honest I am a complete Firefly fanatic and yes, I would most definitely watch a Firefly animated series. I daresay that a raider ship full of hungry Reavers couldn't keep me away. I am so eager for any continuation of the story that I would fully support (and pimp) any medium that delivered that story.

I think your working on other projects would give you the inside track to getting Universal to give you a nod for an animated series, but I believe ultimately it is up to Joss. As you no doubt know, Firefly/Serenity is Joss's baby and he is going to want a big hand in anything dealing with his 'verse. Of course his involvement would go a long way towards giving legitimacy to any project and cement fan support.

Keep us posted on how this develops.

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!

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Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

Color Sergeant

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http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html

WALRUS

Thursday, January 11, 2007 12:32 PM

You have my absolute support with this... Would be awesome if it happened

CHOO1701

Thursday, January 11, 2007 12:38 PM

Sounds like a cool idea "Serenity: the animated series". Perfect material for a Saturday Morning ().

Although the hard part would be getting a major studio and/or Joss to say yes (and if you did it on the internet it'd have to be free). But it would be very intersting to see how this develops.

and, course, if you need story ideas, just check all those writers we have in the Blue Sun Room

BTW: sorry to be a pain: but can someone please shrink that huge gorram picture it really messes up the messages. Thanlk.

-----------------------------

TRAIN!!!

MISTERSOLIDUS

Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:41 PM

I would watch an animated version of Firefly. I'm for it 100%!

The first anime I got into was Outlaw Star. It was more Sci-Fi than western though. Still, it was very good. I recommend it to all the browncoats.

SIRI

Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Roy:
Go for it.

I think this could work provided the original cast did the voices, the animation was of an exceptional standard and the story lines remain at adult levels.

It'd be even better if you resurrect Book & Wash.

I'm of a mind to agree with Roy here - would love to see Firefly in any way, shape or form as long as it maintains the integrity of the original, targeted to adult audience and high quality. This is a good venue to explore reactions with these avid Browncoats - they will definately give you honest, considered opinions.

Good luck! Looking forward to seeing how it develops.

Siri

SISTER

Thursday, January 11, 2007 3:09 PM

Well, my mom told me, "if you can't say something nice...don't say anything at all," but you're asking for honesty, so - here goes.
While I am a fan of animation...I am not-so-much a fan of wonderful human-acted stories being "animated." The feel of the 'verse and the Firefly family was human; the superb, perfectly-cast characters; the lighting inside Serenity. What human actors bring to the screen, I'm afraid animation cannot duplicate. Even with the original cast's voice work; I think it would still be a smaller vision of the 'verse - the verse that has made such a huge impact (I believe Joss called it "invading people's dreams") that I would not care to see it diminished or made "smaller". Sorry; that's how I feel. I've seem some of those truly creepifying "live action to animation" commercials that make my skin crawl...and I've also seen some wonderful, captivating and magical animation; I just don't think the true magic of Firefly would translate (in my opinion and, as we all know: opinions are like...)

ZORPRIME01

Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:09 PM

I would LOVE to see Firefly/Serenity in an animated series - IF IT IS DONE WELL!

I am a huge fan of animation in general, so I think it could be done, and I would give all of my support to the project.

I will say, however, that I think the original series/movie were so perfect that it would be difficult to live up to them in any other form. But an animated series would be very welcome, and certainly a step up from comic book adventures, which is all we can really hope for at the moment. If you had the support of some of the writing staff and voice actors, I think it could work very well.

"If wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak."

DONCOAT

Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
I'd welcome it, but... (snip)

I totally understand your concerns:
1. We'd only move forward with Joss and his writing team involved

2. We'd market this to the same audience that FFTOS was targeting. Indeed, this is not a proven animation market. We did fail at our attempts to make a seperate animated TV show with the same demographic, but our financial situation has changed and the venues for the show has changed. Time slots are going to be a secondary market. Downloads and on demand television will be dominant, especially for our market demographic.

3. CG tends to be expensive, but compositing between CG and live action is just as expensive. The blend between the CG and our style of animation seems to work fine. Obviously it wouldn't work with other styles of animation.

4. We are an independent studio. We'd finance this on our own. We have had a track record of successful productions in many parts of the industry. I think waiting for the networks to come around on this show is not realistic nor letting them have any control would be prudent (given the history). We do have connections with Miyazaki's studios, but design would come from ourselves and Jean Moebius Giraud who is working on our current project with us.

Okay, I'm officially impressed. Honestly, I'd love to see a short "test animation" of the style shown in the pics you posted, though I imagine you'd need permission (and a budget) to do even that much. If you can make "real humans" move and emote as convincingly as these characters seem to, you could have a winner.

Miyazaki is a magic word for me, so your connections there are most impressive. Obviously his style is quite different from what you propose, but one thing Miyazaki does is give the characters fully-realized personalities and expressions. There's a scene in "Spirited Away" that really struck me. As the family is walking through the tunnel into the magical world, the little girl's body language is wonderfully handled. Very little dialog but so much is communicated. That's the kind of work I'd be looking for from you.

I'm still not entirely clear on how you'd structure this, though. I'd have no problem paying a fair price to download episodes, but I wonder whether this distribution channel is mature enough to succeed. I'm not a user of on-demand services (my cable card doesn't support them).

Which leads to my next concern. How would this model lead to any growth in the fan base? Sure, we existing, content-starved Browncoats would do our part. But unless this project could expand the audience, it would seem unlikely to turn FF into the kind of mass market hit we'd all like to see it become. Internet downloads and on-demand haven't ever produced such a phenomenon, as far as I know. Yes, it would be great if FF was the first to do so, but what are the odds?

Oh, one other thing: it would be silly to do this project unless it was produced in full-resolution high-def widescreen format. But I'm sure that's a given already.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

DONCOAT

Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:21 PM

Just one other comment while I'm thinking about it.

I really, really appreciate that you've brought this in front of us (somewhat nutty) fans for comment and input. If this works out it will be great to feel we've had some influence on the project, and hopefully made the product even better.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

REDLAVA

Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:16 PM

I would definitely watch. Hell I would watch sock puppet theater if it was about the verse.

MANGOLO

Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
Yes, it would be great if FF was the first to do so, but what are the odds?

Oh, one other thing: it would be silly to do this project unless it was produced in full-resolution high-def widescreen format. But I'm sure that's a given already.

One of the great things about playing with your own money is that you can play the odds as you see fit (studio executives rarely risk anything)

We will producing this like all our other current projects. In Hi Def.

>

LOKIE

Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:31 PM

I say your on the right beat. I do Maya 6.0 and Lightwave btw :) I wonder if we could put together a group of 200ppl to work on the series. You remember the Halo 2 animations don't you? Well, with grade a graphics, which takes nothing more than time and effort, that which we have :). We could make it look downright real. real enough anyways. If we could get the cast to do voice overs, we could do it as a non-profit thing. That's where the 200ppl come in :P since we'd all just be doing what we can as we can. I believe after a years worth of work on the verse ships and crew, then we could follow with animations every month or so at the very least. Either a 30minz episode every week or a movie every month would be great. But I do wonder about the time it would take to create the verse and the crew, cuz that would be the biggest portion of production. But once we got all that implimented, animating our creations should go pretty smoothly. I'm willing to help anyways, SHINY IDEA!!!

JWHEDONADDICT

Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:59 PM

I'd probably watch, but personally I can't imagine this show animated. BUFFY has a pretty loyal fanbase, too, and the plans for an animated series fell through anyway.

COLDREDNES

Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:19 PM

No offense but I just hate the Idea of seeing Mal animated, Nathan Fillon is so great at what he does, it just wouldn't do him justice to be turned into a cartoon.

SIMONF

Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:45 PM

Interesting enough there was going to be an animated DVD prequel to Serenity (like what they did for Chronicles of Riddick) but it didn't happen and it become the Serenity comic mini-series instead.

There's a bit about what happened back in 2004.

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/rage/110229939997661.htm

Quote:

Serenity Now

The recent delay of Joss Whedon’s Serenity isn’t the only intrigue taking place behind the scenes. Word is going around that Universal wanted to do a Serenity animated feature film direct to DVD, in the vein of The Animatrix or The Chronicles of Riddick: Dark Fury. And apparently, they were serious enough to commission a script. The writer chosen for this project was Brett Matthews, who wrote an episode of Firefly and also provided the script for Dark Fury. Matthews and Whedon came up with a story for the Serenity animated feature and Matthews was set to tackle the script.

However, for reasons that aren’t entirely clear, the Serenity animated feature isn’t happening. But that doesn’t mean this story won’t see the light of day. Dark Horse is rumored to be very interested in using the story Matthews and Whedon came up with as the basis for their first Serenity miniseries. If it happens, look for the miniseries to be written by Matthews, who already has a few comic scripts under his belt, including the Marvel Knights Spider-Man/Wolverine miniseries that came out last year.

This Has A “Reaver Nation” Factor of Eight Out of Ten,

DOCTROID

Friday, January 12, 2007 12:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BonaNaCroin:
This might sound blasphemous but a possibility might be to have a differant crew.

That's not an idea to be dismissed out of hand, for many reasons. Another is that a new, interesting (but what else, if Joss is involved?) animated cast might be easier for fans to accept than an animated version of the familiar crew. Yet another reason is that if all went really well, you could bring the original crew back for a live action sequel while continuing the animated series at the same time!

Over here http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=26434 is a thread about what happened to the Operative after the BDM. Did he fall on his sword? Or... something more interesting? Somehow or other, I think that could work better as an animated series than a direct sequel to Firefly would.

GREENFAERIE

Friday, January 12, 2007 12:46 AM

I'm looking forward to it! If Joss and co. write it, and the original cast is voicing, it's a no-brainer.

And to all those that say no way, just watch it with your eyes closed if you dare. It will be just fine, if you ask me. After all, if it's a question of no Firefly or animated Firefly, I'd bet you animated Firefly wins hands down.

HISTORY

Friday, January 12, 2007 12:46 AM

As always, what makes the story is the script and the interactions of the cast.
This is why Firefly/Serenity still attracts fans and commands our loyalty, and desire for more, years after the series aired.

There are many types of animation today, some computer-animation being very life-like [a la Final Fantasy" for example] and need not necessarily be like the cartoons of our childhood [e.g. "Star Trek-Animated series"--though some of those scripts were very good, by the way].

Therefore: Good stories + our BDH's doing the voices = sales (probably equivalent to the DVD sales).

Let me know when I can order them.

Respectfully,
History

CLJOHNSTON108

Friday, January 12, 2007 12:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Being a huge animation fan, I'm really excited at the idea.

As you said, it's not a proven demographic in network television, but the success of adult-aimed anime series (Witch Hunter Robin, Ghost in the Shell: Stand-Alone Complex) proves that there is a market for it, and the success of teen-aimed shows (Justice League Unlimited, Avatar: The Last Airbender) demonstrates that long, intricate arcs are possible even in a half-hour serial.

Maybe pitch it to the specialty networks (I can see Cartoon Network or Sci-Fi being interested stateside, and there are Browncoats at Space up here in Canada). As long as Joss and the BDH are available (and the money's good), I can't see them turning it down.

One name that I can't get out of my head as I'm reading this thread: Audu Paden.

He produced Roughnecks: Starship Troopers Chronicles and MTV's Spider-Man: The New Animated Series, and those are my two all-time favorite CGI series!

I wouldn't have a single worry about an animated Firefly series if he were involved.

HISTORY

Friday, January 12, 2007 12:55 AM

Mangolo,
I also checked out your site and trailer for StangeFrame: Love and Sax
http://www.strangeframe.com/trailers.htm

Very nice.
And was it my imagination or were those Firefly-like class vessels in the trailer and a "save River"-like theme as part of the storyline?

However, if your output for this project is "Fall 2009", a Firefly/Serenity animated project would be many years away, would it not?

Respectfully,
History

NAUGHTYMAN

Friday, January 12, 2007 1:31 AM

Sure I'd watch it,especially with a new cast.Also I think it would lend itself particularly well to a "pay as you go" format.
Please keep us informed.

"Come a day there won't be room for naughty men like us to slip about at all"

ROY

Friday, January 12, 2007 2:59 AM

Quote:
No. As much as I liked these characters, they're dead. And Firefly is about keeping it real. Resurrect them and it's not Firefly, it's just one more "oh, it's science fiction, we can get away with anything" piece of

Hi Doctroid.

I didn't mean forget Serenity didn't happen, it did and still will. But I believe the characters can come back without messing anything up - for a limited time only.

Assuming that Serenity covered in 2 hours what was intended to take to the end of the 2nd season. I see no reason why the series cannot continue from Objects in Space and interlace the Serenity storyline into the next 20 or so episodes. We all know what's coming but it would be interesting to see what they get up to in the meantime.

This would allow the writers to give us more clues to Books background - though we'd never find out all the details. It also gives an opportunity to see different angles on Zoe - without Wash she's less than 50% of the character she is with him & I'd like to know more about her before the Zoe/Wash pair is lost.

Speaking of characters, I'd prefer to explore more of what Inara is and what she wants rather than her occupation.

I would not accept "average" animation, it has to be leading edge and special. As an example, I'd expect Firefly to have a level of improvement to Ice Age II as that movie was to Ice Age I. The animated characters must be able to convey the non verbal subleties that the cast (esp Kaylee & River) were able to do. Getting animated expressions and body language realistic will be a massive challenge - hey, doing the impossible makes us mighty !!

Of course I'd prefer the show to return with the 9 BDH but if that doesn't happen I'd be content to watch a quality amine production.

DISCARIOT

Friday, January 12, 2007 6:57 AM

I would be very interested. I'd thought about posting about the possibility of someone doing an anime version of the show, but now here you are.

I don't know how to set up a poll, since I am only an occasional lurker here who sniffs around occasionally to see what's new.

I think this is a fantastic idea, provided it is done well--I'd rather have nothing at all than some half-assed version of the show. I'm pretty sure you could get a lot of people behind this. I'd love to help if there's anything a regular nerd-type like me can do besides spread the buzz amongst his fellow nerdlings.

MANGOLO

Friday, January 12, 2007 8:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by cljohnston108:

One name that I can't get out of my head as I'm reading this thread: Audu Paden.

He produced Roughnecks: Starship Troopers Chronicles and MTV's Spider-Man: The New Animated Series, and those are my two all-time favorite CGI series!

I wouldn't have a single worry about an animated Firefly series if he were involved.

Audu has been involved fringely on strange frame . He does have his plate full which just about answers the second question by History - we could concurrently begin pre-production soon (while [strange frame is in post and be in full production by the beginning of 2009 for a possible Fall release of the first few episodes.

MISTERSOLIDUS

Friday, January 12, 2007 1:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Redlava:
Hell I would watch sock puppet theater if it was about the verse.

I think hes on to something!

On topic though, I think it should have a different crew and cast. The way I see it, it could expand the verse a bit more.

PHUZION

Friday, January 12, 2007 6:12 PM

I'm with SISTER on this one...
While I'm a fan of animation, having gone to school for it, the thought of not having the original cast doing what they do is well... heartbreaking. There's so much that a perfectly cast actor brings to the table that the director, writers, and creators never thought of. I didn't just watch Firefly for the story, but for the actors as well, the camera use, the lighting... you're talking about an entirely new medium that struggles even more than live-action-tv-sci-fi... which makes no sense when the original already struggled, nevermind that it's the best sci-fi to hit screen since... ever.

The only way you could really get the feel of the original cast would be to roto the whole thing, and that just gets too pricey, and at which point it's just easier to film it live. I would personally rather see producers lend their support in getting Firefly back on the air... on HBO with no commercials so we could have a full hour every week!! But seriously, I love animation to death, but I love for what it is, which is not reality. To try and reporduce reality... well that's just missing the point of animation. I am personally not very interested in seeing anyone captain Serenity other than Nathan Fillion; don't really care to see anyonefix Serenity other than Jewel Staite... etc.

Some kind of prequel, as was mentioned with Riddick... now that would be cool... but we don't need a prequel to Serenity the movie, because we have the 14 episodes... help Joss get Firefly back on the air... that's what I say. But good luck with whatever road you choose!

Peace,
~Daniel Daya Landerman
www.artdl.com
www.artdl.blogspot.com

HUGHFF

Friday, January 12, 2007 7:55 PM

Fact is, anyone on here who says they wouldn't watch it is being economical with the truth. Honestly, how many of the doubters, and I'm not saying your doubts aren't valid, haven't read "Those Left Behind." We're fanatical - that's why we post here.

We'd all give it a go but it'd have to be good to keep us. I think if you didn't have Joss and the cast, you'd lose us pretty quick.

My first choice would be a new season but I'd take this if it didn't go the Matrix route. Best of luck.

www.cpfc.org - my life
www.nbhs.school.nz - my work

MAL4PREZ

Friday, January 12, 2007 9:52 PM

My feeling is this: Joss would likely only get behind this if there was truly no hope of continuing the `verse in any other way. (Besides the comics, which are completely unsatisfying. IMHO, they don't count.)

So, the question I'm seeing here is: if it was animation or nothing, what would I take? Duh!!

Obviously I'd vastly prefer a return to the live action TV series, or the big screen, but if I can't have either of those I'll take the cartoon. Who knows, if it's successful, it could be a bridge to getting our live series back (probably not what you want to hear, mangolo. Sorry!)

However, I do think you'll have a hard time wrestling the rights away from the f**ks at fox. Even if you manage to get Joss and the actors on board. Have you looked into this problem at all?

Keep us posted!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

MANGOLO

Monday, January 15, 2007 12:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
My feeling is this: Joss would likely only get behind this if there was truly no hope of continuing the `verse in any other way. (Besides the comics, which are completely unsatisfying. IMHO, they don't count.)

So, the question I'm seeing here is: if it was animation or nothing, what would I take? Duh!!

Obviously I'd vastly prefer a return to the live action TV series, or the big screen, but if I can't have either of those I'll take the cartoon. Who knows, if it's successful, it could be a bridge to getting our live series back (probably not what you want to hear, mangolo. Sorry!)

However, I do think you'll have a hard time wrestling the rights away from the f**ks at fox. Even if you manage to get Joss and the actors on board. Have you looked into this problem at all?

Keep us posted!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

We might be able to skirt Fox' rights depending on how those rights are recorded. We know Fox would get all over us on broadcast television, but maybe they'd slide us in at night, if not we wouldl be releasing it in multiple formats for download and on DVD. Remember if we had the green light today, you wouldn't see anything for about 2 years. By that time downloads will be much more common and we are betting, even dominant, in the sci-fi genre.

We did a rough work up on budget. Our episodes would run less than half of what the live action episodes ran at. The problem is we are not sure we can capture half the Firefly market with animation. Our preliminary market survery shows at least 65% of diehard fans would definitely watch the show. We think that in the general Firefly audience, these numbers might be considerably less.

Your thoughts?

MICJWELCH

Monday, January 15, 2007 4:25 AM

I really think anybody here who says that they wouldn't like it would probably watch it anyway. If people don't think that emotions can be portrayed properly in animation, they should look at Toy Story (also written by Joss Whedon). They're toys. And we love them.

I take it your animation style is actually similar to Titan AE (more Joss Whedon, actually).

I would LOVE to see this in an animated series. I've suggested this once before, actually, but we don't often get anyone reading these posts that can do it.

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

MANGOLO

Monday, January 15, 2007 8:46 AM

I posted this on another Firefly board:

I do want to be clear - this is not going to be a cartoon in any sense of the word. There will be no cartoony look. Here is a sample of the look from "strange frame" our current project. This is not artwork - this is the actual animation ready head. (Yes, we know it looks like Morgan Freeman)

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Monday, January 15, 2007 9:27 AM

I'd love to see this. In fact, since 'Batman' has now been updated to a heavy tech kids show, I think there's a real opening for a more adult cartoon series. Anyone else remember that Batman animated series in the late nineties? The one that was very cool and gothic looking?

I know that 'Gargoyles' had a huge adult fanbase too.

Short answer - yes. Definately yes. Go for it!

Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com

ANNIE

Monday, January 15, 2007 11:49 AM

With the same cast and characters? I am most definitely in. I would even run right out and buy direct-to-dvd anything FF related.

Sex and violence on the big screen, where it belongs.

DONCOAT

Monday, January 15, 2007 2:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
We did a rough work up on budget. Our episodes would run less than half of what the live action episodes ran at. The problem is we are not sure we can capture half the Firefly market with animation. Our preliminary market survery shows at least 65% of diehard fans would definitely watch the show. We think that in the general Firefly audience, these numbers might be considerably less.

Your thoughts?

I think this is a significant concern.

One issue that any on-demand distibution scheme is up against is the fact that it's, well, on demand. That is, no one is likely to find it unless they're looking for it. That works fine for the diehards like us. Goodness knows we're looking!

But how will that work for the casual viewer, those four million or so who tuned in to the Firefly broadcasts during its first run? For many of those folks, the show has long since drifted out of their awareness. The lack of a big audience for Serenity was an indication of that.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'll venture to say that a marketing campaign will have to be part of it. So you should plan (and budget for) some kind of advertising blitz -- perhaps 15 second spots during whatever popular SF shows are on the air then, plus online ads that show up in search engines when people specify that sort of material.

That could get expensive quickly, so it should be part of the calculations right from the start.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

CORNCOBB

Monday, January 15, 2007 2:53 PM

You've got my support. Joss writing and the original cast voicing the characters? Sounds shiney

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

MANGOLO

Monday, January 15, 2007 6:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
We did a rough work up on budget. Our episodes would run less than half of what the live action episodes ran at. The problem is we are not sure we can capture half the Firefly market with animation. Our preliminary market survery shows at least 65% of diehard fans would definitely watch the show. We think that in the general Firefly audience, these numbers might be considerably less.

Your thoughts?
I think this is a significant concern.

One issue that any on-demand distibution scheme is up against is the fact that it's, well, on demand. That is, no one is likely to find it unless they're looking for it. That works fine for the diehards like us. Goodness knows we're looking!

But how will that work for the casual viewer, those four million or so who tuned in to the Firefly broadcasts during its first run? For many of those folks, the show has long since drifted out of their awareness. The lack of a big audience for Serenity was an indication of that.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'll venture to say that a marketing campaign will have to be part of it. So you should plan (and budget for) some kind of advertising blitz -- perhaps 15 second spots during whatever popular SF shows are on the air then, plus online ads that show up in search engines when people specify that sort of material.

That could get expensive quickly, so it should be part of the calculations right from the start.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

We are working on it. We have a lot of experience with web marketing. We have been contracted by Universal and others for such work and have garnered millions of hits for these entities. No worries there.

>

MANGOLO

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 7:38 AM

I'm posting this response from another Firefly forum just FYI:

Thanks for the kudos. We are humble animators who love our jobs.

As for the production question - regardless of live action or animation - pre-production and production happens completely before a season begins, usually only post and the last couple of episodes of a show are produced during the actual season.

As far as the format, if this starts looking like we have a solid market, we will approach Joss. We'd only do this if he himself wrote the opening episode and him or his team would write the series. Once we have negotiated that (and which of our arms and legs Joss wants as far as ownership), we'd take the package to FOX and/or SCI-FI and others to see if they are willing to foot the bill and in what form. If none bite, we'd go it alone. I think first season would be 4-6 episodes available for download, pay per view, DVD, Blu-Ray, and HD DVD. We'd roll the income straight into the second season.

Honestly, we are not in this to make a bunch of money. We live in Hawaii and are doing well just working on our projects here, but we'd really love the opportunity to work with Joss, learn from him and further our style of animation. We also have an outreach program for disadvantaged kids to intern with our company. A regular show would allow us to expand that program and help even more young talented kids from the surrounding economically depressed areas.

BROWNCOAT1

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:56 AM

Keep us posted as to any developments on this front Mangolo.

Personally, I am a little more optimistic in my belief that you would get more than 1/2 of the browncoats to watch an animated series. The main reason being that we are all so anxious for a continuation of the story that I doubt many would truly care what the medium, so long as the story is being told.

Take care and keep flyin'!

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!

[img] [/img]

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

Color Sergeant

[img] [/img]

http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html

JERAXUS

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:39 PM

im fore it

DONCOAT

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:42 PM

Mangolo,

Is there a sample of your animation anywhere that's available for (free) download? Even a low-res clip on YouTube would be nice to get an idea of the dynamics you can do. The stills are impressive, but it would be great to see how the characters move.

You should probably have something of that nature available before you approach The Boss, since you'll need to prove your animation techniques are suitable for our beloved 'verse. Obviously the clip wouldn't necessarily have to be a Firefly scene, just something in the style you're proposing to use (or similar).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

WALRUS

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:47 PM

Indeed, a sample of your work would be greatly apreciated

MANGOLO

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 6:14 PM

Here is our current trailer for strange frame It is in Quicktime 7, so if you don't have that installed you'll only get sound.

http://www.strangeframe.com/new_trailer.htm

If you want the motion sample, watch it all the way through. We have it start slow and build.

WILDHEAVENFARM

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:52 PM

We know that most of the cast does voice acting. Hell, half of them were on Justice League.

I would be all for that if it was done to continue the show and not just cash in on the rabid nature of the fan cult. When you picture it, what style do you see? By which I mean, can you site a current program that looks like what you see?

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

MANGOLO

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by History:
Mangolo,
I also checked out your site and trailer for StangeFrame: Love and Sax
http://www.strangeframe.com/trailers.htm

Very nice.
And was it my imagination or were those Firefly-like class vessels in the trailer and a "save River"-like theme as part of the storyline?

However, if your output for this project is "Fall 2009", a Firefly/Serenity animated project would be many years away, would it not?

Respectfully,
History

I blame it on the collective unconscious. Shelley and I began development on our "fix everything that is wrong with Trek" show in 1999. No aliens, no FTL, no white male lead whose name starts with J (really think about it SGA, SG1, Jeremiah, B5, STOS, STNG, etc). and of course people swearing in Chinese (damn Joss we were on the same page!!!) We began our ad campaign in 2001, within a few months of our original pitch "You're trapped in a fishbowl without walls, falling endlessly around a flickering candle. No hokey hyperdrives. No Federations or galactic empires. The speed of light chains everyone to the same star: step too far away and the Long Dark will eat you alive." - Firefly came along as the new 'anti-Trek' (NY Times) and we thought we were dead and indeed our chance for a TV series became limited - MTV offered to buy our idea, but we weren't selling - we wanted to make this stuff ourselves! We ditched the TV series and wrote a screenplay that takes place just before the TV scripts. We raised a chunk of change (not the full budget) and went into production in 2004. Those ships were designed in 2001 based on some models we actually bought at that time. (So it is not just our minds tapped into this stuff). There is definitely some similarities between River and Naia, but all written before Shelley and I had seen Firefly (you can check our WGA registration!), but our flick is about fringe musicians and a space trucker named Grenman who hauls them around.

>

MANGOLO

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lokie:
I say your on the right beat. I do Maya 6.0 and Lightwave btw :) I wonder if we could put together a group of 200ppl to work on the series. You remember the Halo 2 animations don't you? Well, with grade a graphics, which takes nothing more than time and effort, that which we have :). We could make it look downright real. real enough anyways. If we could get the cast to do voice overs, we could do it as a non-profit thing. That's where the 200ppl come in :P since we'd all just be doing what we can as we can. I believe after a years worth of work on the verse ships and crew, then we could follow with animations every month or so at the very least. Either a 30minz episode every week or a movie every month would be great. But I do wonder about the time it would take to create the verse and the crew, cuz that would be the biggest portion of production. But once we got all that implimented, animating our creations should go pretty smoothly. I'm willing to help anyways, SHINY IDEA!!!

Please send us samples!!!

MANGOLO

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WildHeavenFarm:
We know that most of the cast does voice acting. Hell, half of them were on Justice League.

I would be all for that if it was done to continue the show and not just cash in on the rabid nature of the fan cult. When you picture it, what style do you see? By which I mean, can you site a current program that looks like what you see?

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

No. We have our own style (check out the link above). I think this could work in other styles, but would be best served by ours. I want to mention for all those who love Firefly and animation, they should check out Cowboy Bebop in the unedited form.

DOCTROID

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:09 PM

Having watched the trailer, I'd say... Interesting. But honestly, I don't see anything in it that would persuade me you can do something that'd capture anything like the style of "Firefly". This is not to assert that you can't, of course, only that your trailer isn't the proof. Certainly it seems your characters are visually rather stylized and, I have to say, not particularly "deep" in the sense of moving with the subtlety of a real person. And given that, to me, the whole point of "Firefly" is that these are real people, I don't think doing it in this kind of style would work well.

The more I think about it, the more I think I would not be likely to enjoy an animated "Firefly" with the original characters. Yet, possibly, a series about different people in the same 'verse might work... if you can find a way of de-emphasizing the people while still presenting good stories.

But all in all, I'd feel a lot better about a live action "Firefly".

FLYVOTE

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by doctroid:
Having watched the trailer, I'd say... Interesting.

Yes interesting.

But not what it takes to do Firefly.

Animate the VERY subtle expressions on Nathan/Mal's face when Saffron tells him he is her wife? No. With any type of animation it would come out anything but subtle.

Show Inara's eyes with animation? The very low signal level she gives Mal when he asks her a question at the end of that episode cannot be done with computer animation. Watch that sequence. Watch here eyes as he gets her to "admit" to kissing Saffron, and the oh-so-slight conveyance of emotion that barely shows when Mal leaves having guessed wrong.

Firefly is full of that intangible level of expression. Can't be done with computer animation.

Your animation, Mangolo, is artistic and impressive. But just not human and expressive. I'll watch what you do, and if it ends up being Firefly, I'll watch it likely only once. Not over and over and um, over...

---- ---- ---- ---- ----

Flyvote (version 1.2):
http://www.usbmicro.com/misc

MANGOLO

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Flyvote:
Quote:
Originally posted by doctroid:
Having watched the trailer, I'd say... Interesting.

Yes interesting.

But not what it takes to do Firefly.

Animate the VERY subtle expressions on Nathan/Mal's face when Saffron tells him he is her wife? No. With any type of animation it would come out anything but subtle.

Show Inara's eyes with animation? The very low signal level she gives Mal when he asks her a question at the end of that episode cannot be done with computer animation. Watch that sequence. Watch here eyes as he gets her to "admit" to kissing Saffron, and the oh-so-slight conveyance of emotion that barely shows when Mal leaves having guessed wrong.

Firefly is full of that intangible level of expression. Can't be done with computer animation.

Your animation, Mangolo, is artistic and impressive. But just not human and expressive. I'll watch what you do, and if it ends up being Firefly, I'll watch it likely only once. Not over and over and um, over...

Many thanks for your honesty. I think we are going to scrap this pursuit...for now. After our feature film is complete we will revisit the idea with you all and Joss.

Keep Flyin'

GB

FLYVOTE

Wednesday, January 17, 2007 12:07 AM

Ouch. I feel like the nail in the coffin.

---- ---- ---- ---- ----

Flyvote (version 1.2):
http://www.usbmicro.com/misc

MANGOLO

Wednesday, January 17, 2007 4:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Flyvote:
Ouch. I feel like the nail in the coffin.

---- ---- ---- ---- ----

Flyvote (version 1.2):
http://www.usbmicro.com/misc

Don't. We were exploring whether to invest time and energy at this stage or after the film. We will definitely revisit this in a couple of years. Maybe Firefly Season 2 will happen before that!!!

HISTORY

Friday, January 19, 2007 12:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
Quote:
Originally posted by History:
Mangolo,
I also checked out your site and trailer for StangeFrame: Love and Sax
http://www.strangeframe.com/trailers.htm

Very nice.
And was it my imagination or were those Firefly-like class vessels in the trailer and a "save River"-like theme as part of the storyline?

However, if your output for this project is "Fall 2009", a Firefly/Serenity animated project would be many years away, would it not?

Respectfully,
History

I blame it on the collective unconscious. Shelley and I began development on our "fix everything that is wrong with Trek" show in 1999. No aliens, no FTL, no white male lead whose name starts with J (really think about it SGA, SG1, Jeremiah, B5, STOS, STNG, etc). and of course people swearing in Chinese (damn Joss we were on the same page!!!) We began our ad campaign in 2001, within a few months of our original pitch "You're trapped in a fishbowl without walls, falling endlessly around a flickering candle. No hokey hyperdrives. No Federations or galactic empires. The speed of light chains everyone to the same star: step too far away and the Long Dark will eat you alive." - Firefly came along as the new 'anti-Trek' (NY Times) and we thought we were dead and indeed our chance for a TV series became limited - MTV offered to buy our idea, but we weren't selling - we wanted to make this stuff ourselves! We ditched the TV series and wrote a screenplay that takes place just before the TV scripts. We raised a chunk of change (not the full budget) and went into production in 2004. Those ships were designed in 2001 based on some models we actually bought at that time. (So it is not just our minds tapped into this stuff). There is definitely some similarities between River and Naia, but all written before Shelley and I had seen Firefly (you can check our WGA registration!), but our flick is about fringe musicians and a space trucker named Grenman who hauls them around.

[IMG][/IMG]

Thanks for the background, Mangalo.
I wasn't being accusing, just admiring.
There are only 2 or 3 original archetypal stories in existence anyway.
The rest are just different retellings.

Good luck.

Respectfully,
History

HISTORY

Friday, January 19, 2007 12:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
Quote:
Originally posted by Flyvote:
Ouch. I feel like the nail in the coffin.

---- ---- ---- ---- ----

Flyvote (version 1.2):
http://www.usbmicro.com/misc

Don't. We were exploring whether to invest time and energy at this stage or after the film. We will definitely revisit this in a couple of years. Maybe Firefly Season 2 will happen before that!!!

Ignore the wet blankets.
Invest, invest, invest.

Animation is a completely different media.
And you do animation very well.
If we Browncoats insist on only the live actor tv/film media, we're cheating ourselves of more good stories and adventures in the 'Verse.

If B3 was any example, Browncoats will spend our "greenbacks" on anything that show's love of the 'Verse and keeps us flyin'.

Just do it.

Respectfully,
History

MANGOLO

Friday, January 19, 2007 7:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by History:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
Quote:
Originally posted by Flyvote:
Ouch. I feel like the nail in the coffin.

---- ---- ---- ---- ----

Flyvote (version 1.2):
http://www.usbmicro.com/misc

Don't. We were exploring whether to invest time and energy at this stage or after the film. We will definitely revisit this in a couple of years. Maybe Firefly Season 2 will happen before that!!!

Ignore the wet blankets.
Invest, invest, invest.
Animation is a completely different media.
And you do animation very well.
If we Browncoats insist on only the live actor tv/film media, we're cheating ourselves of more good stories and adventures in the 'Verse.

If B3 was any example, Browncoats will spend our "greenbacks" on anything that show's love of the 'Verse and keeps us flyin'.

Just do it.

Respectfully,
History

Thanks for the encouragement. We just believe once our film is done and this new style is more broadly accepted (we have 3 million hits on our website), we will have a better chance at securing a large market. It is not so much about the money, as building a entity that can support itself outside the FOX world. The Idea: Not dead, just resting.

MALSNARA

Friday, January 19, 2007 11:23 AM

yup yup defo any kind of continuation of firefly or serenity is a must!

PHYRELIGHT

Friday, January 19, 2007 11:07 PM

I'd watch or buy anything that continues the Firefly/Serenity saga. So, DEFINATELY YES!!!!!!

_______________________________________________________

The Whedonverse:
Where all the women are strong...
All the men are good-looking...
And, all the children are weapons of mass distruction.

MICJWELCH

Monday, January 22, 2007 2:05 AM

I fail to understand why people feel that animation can not do what live action can. In many respects it can do more.

For some reason, I can't seem to get the trailer you linked to come up for me, so I don't know exactly what you have going on there, but from your stills and the enthusiasm you have about your work it looks good.

I'm studying computer animation right now. Believe me, if this were something I had the means to work on, I'd be all over it.

Bottom line - We'd watch it. We'd all watch it. And we'd love it.

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

MANGOLO

Monday, January 22, 2007 9:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by micjwelch:
I fail to understand why people feel that animation can not do what live action can. In many respects it can do more.

For some reason, I can't seem to get the trailer you linked to come up for me, so I don't know exactly what you have going on there, but from your stills and the enthusiasm you have about your work it looks good.

I'm studying computer animation right now. Believe me, if this were something I had the means to work on, I'd be all over it.

Bottom line - We'd watch it. We'd all watch it. And we'd love it.

You need QT7 installed

MICJWELCH

Monday, January 22, 2007 2:02 PM

Are you really giving up on the idea of making the animated series? I was under the impression that the purpose of this forum was to get the attention of someone who had the means to continue the series, and yet somehow we have convinced you not to do it. What do we have to do to convince you that it's a good idea?

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

MANGOLO

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:53 AM

I went to 4 different boards. About 65% of people are pro animate. The rest aren't too fond of the idea, but not against it. These are the die hard fans. I think given these numbers we can't do it at this point. After our feature film comes out and hopefully does as well as we think it will, WE WILL revisit this idea. So not dead yet, just resting, eh?

BTW I am at Sundance Film Fest right now. Saw Chispen Glover yesterday. Talked to Leisha Hailey and Katherine Moennig about our movie.

GREENFAERIE

Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:42 PM

Great. I never figured some of us Browncoats would be so negative about a possible new way to have us some new Firefly, so much so that the whole idea has been squelched. Way to go guys.

http://home.nycap.rr.com/wydraz/firefly

IREMIST

Friday, January 26, 2007 5:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
Great. I never figured some of us Browncoats would be so negative about a possible new way to have us some new Firefly, so much so that the whole idea has been squelched. Way to go guys.

Honey, If I could blend up Firefly and find a way to inject it in my veins and cure this gorram itch, I'd do it, but I'd have to go with the naysayers on this one. A big part of the draw was the sex appeal(which would be hard and somewhat awkward to accomplish with anime)not to mention environment and emotional portrayal. I own the graffic novel, and I spent half the time reading it thinking that the way they were drawn was somewhat wooden.

I think I'd be more apt to embrace a new crew(with visitations from our favs, of course) before I'd embrace an anime crew...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

CYBERSNARK

Friday, January 26, 2007 3:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iremist:
A big part of the draw was the sex appeal(which would be hard and somewhat awkward to accomplish with anime)

*contemplates saying something, then decides that if Iremist doesn't already know, s/he probably doesn't want to*

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

IREMIST

Friday, January 26, 2007 4:12 PM

Yes, Cybersnark, I know all about hentai....
more than I ever wanted to know...sorry, animated Cinderella and and Prince Charming don't do it for me!

In the immortal words from the Man in Black
"Flesh and blood needs flesh and blood" and I need actual Firefly not the watered-down version...

My hubby died his browncoat black for those that have gone before...

GREENFAERIE

Friday, January 26, 2007 11:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iremist:
I need actual Firefly not the watered-down version...

I'm thinking there's a problem with your brain being missing. No one is saying you can't have the "real" version if the animated version is made. It might even help the cause.

Why did you buy the comics? It wasn't live action. If you had known about it beforehand, would you have denounced it as a watered-down version and beg for it not to happen? Poppycock.

Why deny all of the other fans some semblance of Firefly just because you want the original format? And if the original cast were doing the voice acting, and if Joss was doing the writing, I'd bet you'd be tempted to watch an animated show. Hell, even Joss said he'd do Firefly in alternative formats if he could.

http://home.nycap.rr.com/wydraz/firefly

CITIZEN

Friday, January 26, 2007 11:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iremist:
A big part of the draw was the sex appeal(which would be hard and somewhat awkward to accomplish with anime)not to mention environment and emotional portrayal.

And there was me thinking it was the story lines and character development.

Hentai is not a city in Japan is all...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CYBERSNARK

Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
No one is saying you can't have the "real" version if the animated version is made. It might even help the cause.

Like how animated Trek kept the dream alive and built interest in the franchise.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

MICJWELCH

Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:19 AM

I too am extremely disappointed that we have convinced someone NOT to continue Firefly. All because we think it wouldn't be good enough for us. Joss is used to writing animation. He would do extremely well with it. And we found someone willing to do it. Then we told him not to.

What's wrong with this picture?! How did we let this happen?!

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

NOSADSEVEN

Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:07 AM

For the record, count me in as part of the 65% that would absolutely buy an animated Joss & original cast continuation of Serenity. I am not a fan of animation, and I would prefer live action. But my overriding preference is for something to keep this ship flying... and what that something can be is already fairly limited without my own imposed restrictions.

As active as the online fandom is, it is already just a shadow of its former self. I'd hate to see this fandom fade away with no new material to discuss, because we were too picky about the medium. I mean, I'm all for being too picky about the creative team and the cast, but if they think it'll work, I'm willing to grant them the benefit of the doubt and follow them in to a new medium.

So instead of looking at what it is, look at what it can be. There's a lot of potential for animation, things that can be covered that would be very difficult in live action format - even things like Book's past, where the ages of the actors would be far less restricting to how the story could be told. And even if an animated series is not what we all want it to be, the influx and anticipation of new material will continue to stoke the flames until the next opportunity arises.

Anyway, here's a somewhat relevant excerpt from a recap of Joss's recent Fanboy Radio interview:
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=93856

Quote:
In regards to more Serenity/Firefly comics, "We are doing another limited series, me and Brett Matthews are writing a new 3-issue Firefly comic series called Better Days that I’m not positive is coming out in the Spring. I’m not as interested as continuing with an actual series, a long-term comic book because there is something about the process of making Firefly that I’m closer to than I’ve ever been and a lot of that has to do with the actors… the Serenity crew – the way they cohered as a group was unlike anything I’ve ever experienced… If it was animated and they were doing the voices, if it was done like A Scanner Darkly, if it was on radio – all of those things would be interesting to me because I would be able to get the actors. To me, the characters just don’t exist without those actors… I don’t see it being something printed so much as someway to get back with them and continue our party that was our party.” And later, Joss adds, “Shepherd Book’s past would definitely be an element of whatever other story I could tell (with the actors). But ultimately, if I find that this is simply not to be, then, you know, I’ll just go online.”

The magic of Firefly transcended what showed up on our screens, and keeping everyone involved and connected is the best way to keep that magic alive and to enjoy the fruit it bears.

Thank you, Mangolo, for pursuing this, now or in the future. Joss has said many times that he's just waiting for the phone to ring, and while your call might not be the one he's waiting for, just maybe it is.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

MANGOLO

Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:45 AM

A very encouraging and well researched response nosadseven. Like I said, I will be revisiting this after we complete our current project strange frame.

I just want to say that Sundance Film Festival was an incredible experience. I made a bunch of deals for my film and for projects to keep my company expanding so we can do bigger and bigger projects.

I met some great people there like Jason Momoa (the dude is TALL) from Stargate:

I also met Darren Aronofsky (Pi and Requiem for a Dream).

I encourage everyone to see his new movie The Fountain.

Keep flyin'

GB

>

DONCOAT

Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:47 PM

To all who have complained about the folks who posted responses that were negative on the proposed animated series, I'd like to ask:

Would you rather that people had lied about it, or not posted an honest answer? What possible positive outcome would that have had?

Let's say this thread had been nothing but a pep rally for Mangolo and Co., and that they had jumped into this project with both feet expecting 100% support from the fan community. Further suppose they got Joss and the actors on board and made the series.

Now imagine that the animated series was completed and released, and instead of overwhelming response, fewer than 65% of even the hardcore fans supported it. Where does that leave Mangolo? Where does that leave the franchise?

Far better to give an honest opinion now than a hypocritical (and un-critical) high five that leads to a huge failure. As if that's what we need!

Kudos to those who spoke from the heart in this thread, whether pro or con. We have enough fanboys and fangirls. What we need now is intelligent planners, and they can't function without reliable information.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

CLERICPRESTON

Sunday, January 28, 2007 3:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shameless:
I dunno, animated seems kinda... eh. Maybe. I dunno how well each character and the chemistry of the ensemble would come through if it wasn't live action.!"

Nothing wrong with animation. Ok, a whole lot is wrong with the majority of western cartoons, however, very little is wrong with Japanese animation. One of the greatest and most widely respected Sci-Fi films of all time, Ghost in the Shell (originally a manga series), is an anime production. The Matrix owes a lot to GitS, the brothers openly admitting it's influence on the original production. If an animated Firefly series were to come to being, a company such as Production IG should handle the animation (coincidently they are responsible for all Ghost in the Shell animation, but you'll probably have seen their violent animated segment of Kill Bill: Vol. 1). It is notable that animated productions require far, far smaller budgets than their live action counterparts, and most usually sport very impressive animation quality and voice acting (Ghost in the Shell: Solid State Society, released late last year in Japan, had a budget of only aproximately $3.2 Million inclusive of advertising, and is set to enjoy a fruitful release in the US and EU later this year). Original voice actors, with Whedon attached to write and direct, and Production IG covering animation, would certainly make something worthy of the Firefly name.

However, I have a motto that applies to situations such as these; What starts animation, stays animation, and what starts live action, stays live action.

CLERICPRESTON

Sunday, January 28, 2007 4:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Flyvote:
Quote:
Originally posted by doctroid:
Having watched the trailer, I'd say... Interesting.

Yes interesting.

But not what it takes to do Firefly.

Animate the VERY subtle expressions on Nathan/Mal's face when Saffron tells him he is her wife? No. With any type of animation it would come out anything but subtle.

Show Inara's eyes with animation? The very low signal level she gives Mal when he asks her a question at the end of that episode cannot be done with computer animation. Watch that sequence. Watch here eyes as he gets her to "admit" to kissing Saffron, and the oh-so-slight conveyance of emotion that barely shows when Mal leaves having guessed wrong.

Firefly is full of that intangible level of expression. Can't be done with computer animation.

Your animation, Mangolo, is artistic and impressive. But just not human and expressive. I'll watch what you do, and if it ends up being Firefly, I'll watch it likely only once. Not over and over and um, over...

Oks.. how much animation have you seen? The level of emotion captured in some animated productions is staggering. A lot depends on the voice actors, but a lot can be accomplished with a steady hand, a tablet and Photoshop (of course, far from an exhaustive collection of tools required). Hey, try watching the jokingly-exagerrated cel-shaded FMVs of the two great Playstation survival horror games Fear Effect 1 and 2, and you'll see emotion captured by animation. I'm guessing you lack of experience in the animation field, and selective viewing are what blinds you to the capabilites of the field of animation.

However, my honest opinion is only a well respected animation studio, with much experience, should be trusted with something like Firefly. After all, we can't risk a failure.

FLYVOTE

Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:09 PM

I'm not going to let this degrade into harsh insults and pointless arguing.

An opinion was solicited, I contributed.

I didn't stop the project. I'm not in charge. It isn't my decision.

According to Mangolo the project hasn't been trashed, only delayed. It was his decision to do so.

Any arguing that my opinion should be disregarded because my experience doesn't meet your standards is pretty much against the spirit of free input/opinion that Mangolo requested.

That's all I'll say about this. It isn't my mind that you need to change.

---- ---- ---- ---- ----
FlyVote (version 1.4):
http://www.usbmicro.com/misc
For Windows/Linux/MacOS9/MacOSX

MANGOLO

Sunday, January 28, 2007 9:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
To all who have complained about the folks who posted responses that were negative on the proposed animated series, I'd like to ask:

Would you rather that people had lied about it, or not posted an honest answer? What possible positive outcome would that have had?

Let's say this thread had been nothing but a pep rally for Mangolo and Co., and that they had jumped into this project with both feet expecting 100% support from the fan community. Further suppose they got Joss and the actors on board and made the series.

Now imagine that the animated series was completed and released, and instead of overwhelming response, fewer than 65% of even the hardcore fans supported it. Where does that leave Mangolo? Where does that leave the franchise?

Far better to give an honest opinion now than a hypocritical (and un-critical) high five that leads to a huge failure. As if that's what we need!

Kudos to those who spoke from the heart in this thread, whether pro or con. We have enough fanboys and fangirls. What we need now is intelligent planners, and they can't function without reliable information.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

I totally concur.

GREENFAERIE

Monday, January 29, 2007 12:38 AM

Those of us that support an animated Firefly aren't disappointed that we got some honest opinions. At least not me. I appreciate the honesty. What perplexes me is what those opinions expressed: that animation wouldn't fly, and that it shouldn't even be attempted.

Why not? What if it actually exceeds your expectations? Why not support the idea on principle - that it would be more Firefly! Even if it's not half bad, it's better than nothing.

Personally I've bought every piece of Firefly related merchandise I could find, regardless of my expectations. I got the comics, and though I was not terribly impressed, I am still glad to have them. I got the trading cards. Nice, but it's nothing new. I got some Serenity money, and it's basically a few sheets of printed paper that's toitally unimpressive. If they released Firefly toilet paper I'd buy it. Anything I can do to keep Firefly alive is what I'd do. I'm disappointed that some of us are not nearly as dedicated.

But I still respect your honesty.

http://home.nycap.rr.com/wydraz/firefly

RUNA27

Monday, January 29, 2007 3:17 AM

A bit OT, but...

Quote:
I got some Serenity money, and it's basically a few sheets of printed paper that's toitally unimpressive.

What? Seriously? I bought me one of the last few framed displays of that that PropStore.com even had. I was totally ecstatic! It's incredibly pretty (and kinda trippy!). I wish U.S. currency was like that. :D

Then again, that's the framed display... with laser-cut velvet-and-gold mats that have the logo and all. It's considerably cooler-looking that way.

...

If you DID get a display, as opposed to the pieces on their own, BTW, I highly recommend opening up the back and seeing if they used masking tape to hold the pieces down on yours, like they did on mine. At this point in time, you won't see any damage, but that kind of tape is acidic, and can acid-burn mats and paper within a few years. I tested mine with a PH pen, and thankfully, the tape was the only non-archival piece they used (mats were acid-free and all, even the cardboard backing was acid-free, even though that's usually an acidic material; they also assured me before I bought it that the glue was acid-free that they used to hold down the actual paper). But it's really better to have mylar or acid-free Artist's Tape on there. It's fairly easy to replace even by yourself, actually.

...

And don't hang it in direct sunlight, it could fade. And keep it in air-conditioning if possible. And you may or may not want to replace the Perspex "glass" (basically plexiglas under a different brand), which may or may not have UV blockers in it.

...'course, that assumes you bought the display. If not, just make sure you store it in a cool, dry place, out of the light if you can and NOT between cardboard that hasn't been deacidified (I'd recommend using at least one piece of acid-free mat board or deacidified cardboard to make sure it stays "flat" and doesn't get crinkled or torn, but you can either store it between two of those or in one of those mylar bags they make for storing comic books in, or even in some photo/art portfolio albums, so long as any materials in them are "acid-free, lignin-free", and it's kept relatively flat).

...

Gorram roots will always show, won't they? (My parents are picture-framers/art restorers. I suppose it had to soak in some time... :P)

Yeah. That was totally OT. Sorry, just couldn't resist commenting!

-Jamie

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