Heroes 2.0 [SPOILERS]
POSTED BY: deepgirl187
UPDATED: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:38
VIEWED: 15854
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Thoughts? Comments? Conspiracy theories? 
It seems things have gone down the tubes for many of our esteemed Heroes. Especially Nathan; that man looks hurt.
Though I was glad to see Noah adjusting to his new job. 
Anyone hear if Christopher Eccleston will be back? He was one of my favorites last season.
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"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin'. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd."
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Ok, I'll just re-post what I put in the other thread. Only this time without spoiler vision.
I enjoyed CHUCK surprisingly, then came my Heroes and I just..... melting mind won't-let-me-assimilate......
I LOVED IT.... SPECIALLY THE END!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Highlight with mouse to view spoilers.
Nathan's a mountain man (and finally said what we all knew, his momma's eeevil), Kensi's English, we got's another flyer (that looks a little like Clark Kent), Mohinder isn't a pushover anymore (about time), Bennet showed that annoying manager how things really work in the paper business, Matt's back without the annoying wife, Molly's dreaming of a nastier boogey man, there were 13 bosses in the company altogether (unlucky number), Hiro's dad.... *sob*, we have a new hero in Mexico, and she may be related to the Hands of Blue, and OH MY GOD! PETER!
And I'm spent..... if CHUCK manages to stay around and be as much fun then my Monday's are glued to the telly.
Thank you NBC, you've put some faith back into TV.
As for Chris. On the 9th Wonders board a year back it was said Chris would be coming back mid season to help train new heroes. I don't know if that's still true or not it'll depend on schedualing and if they don't change some of the story, but that would be sweet.
Is it Monday yet?
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~Peter*Peter*Power>~re-peater~
HEROES IS MY CRACK!
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Ummmm - spoiler tags please?
MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."
http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast
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This is a thread for Heroes honey, I even wrote WITHOUT spoiler vision. I'm sorry you read that but this IS a thread about the latest Heroes episode. What did you expect when you clicked on it?
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~Peter*Peter*Power>~re-peater~
HEROES IS MY CRACK!
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I was wrong about Parkman. It seems he will be playing a major role this season. I don’t know why, but he is. And I don’t remember seeing Niki? I guess one indestructible blonde fulfils the hot ass-kicking blonde quota. Also Ando is back for now.
They brought Peter back, but with amnesia? Okay, while that’s pretty soap opera-ish, I’ll trust it will open up into something better next week. So they’ll still have to come up with a reason why Peter’s not god, but it seems they do have something special in mind.
The Bennett family is not adjusting well.
I thought Maya was played by Aimee Garcia from the previews, but it’s someone else. Dania Ramírez, I think. I think I’m gonna like her.
As far as spoilers are concerned, I’ll propose this:
(1)The author of a thread might want to indicate in the title that this is a free discussion, so that people can make the choice whether they want to view this thread before they open it. And this had been done by the time I posted, so we all seem to be on the same page.
(2) People who have not seem many or any episodes of a show that is airing or has already run, should expect discussion on ideas that would be spoilers to them. Four hours (or the next day) after the airing of Heroes from the central/eastern timezone, all discussion on that episode is declassified and subject to debate in all Heroes threads. Keep in mind that I won’t be using spoiler tags for any Heroes (or any other tv show) discussion relating to an episode that is more than 4 hours old.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:I would hold with that....
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Four hours (or the next day) after the airing of Heroes from the central/eastern timezone, all discussion on that episode is declassified and subject to debate in all Heroes threads.
*Fi-hinn luh-huves Claire bear*
Sorry, my inner second-grader just got loose for a second....
Petrelliisall
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The Hands of Blue power (as I am officially calling it) was my favorite treat in the show! I am excited to see that story develope.
Thank Universal for airing Firefly in HD at
http://universalhd.com/Firefly/
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Am I the only one to notice that Pete's bulked up a little since last season?
Noticin' Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Am I the only one to notice that Pete's bulked up a little since last season?
You say that like it's a bad thing.
*****************************************************
"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin'. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd."
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm buuulllk.
If anyone taped the episode can you try to see if there are any mysterious marks on Peter's neck or shoulder's? Like two small slashes.
Oh look, the emo hair is FINALLY gone. Gonna miss that. But my, the boy looks....
So what did he use against that guy? A pulsar beam or ice power? It wasn't Ted's power so I'm wondering if during the 4 monts he'd been gone he didn't pick up some new powers.
As for his amnesia, people have complained of the god-powers he has and have said the only way to make him stay is reduce his powers, make them harder for him to access, make him weak after using them or turn him into a baddie.... if he has amnesia and believes Nathan tried to kill him instead of help, well he could go all Gabe Gray ya know?
Just a thought. I LOVE THIS SHOW!
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~Peter*Peter*Power>~re-peater~
HEROES IS MY CRACK!
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
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Quote:Actually my favorite character from last season was always her father. Truth be told, I found Claire a bit annoying, especially early in the season. But she is hot, and somehow that makes up for a lot. I included Hayden Panetierre in my list of 10 hottest celebrities thread, which I don’t think was on this board. Might have been a different board I’m thinking of.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
*Fi-hinn luh-huves Claire bear*
Sorry, my inner second-grader just got loose for a second....
But Mr. Bennett was the most intriguing character. He was almost a Whedonesque character the way he was defined so superficially with one-dimensional stereotypes, but then as the story unfolds it becomes evident how complex his character is, flawed but heroric, fearless but anxious, cold but loving. He really hit a cord with me for some reason. I guess because he was someone people wanted to hate because he symbolized the ideas that some people despise, but deep down there was a much bigger meaning. I think I saw it early on though. I wrote several posts about him in other heroes threads, which I’m sure went unread because I seem to be his only fan.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I was wrong about Parkman. It seems he will be playing a major role this season. I don’t know why, but he is.
I think you may be right, though it appears his role will revolve around the Molly plotline. Who is this new villian that Molly is drawing pics of his glaring eyes? How is he able to whisper in her mind during her nightmares (remember Matt heard his voice in her thoughts)?
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
They brought Peter back, but with amnesia? Okay, while that’s pretty soap opera-ish, I’ll trust it will open up into something better next week. So they’ll still have to come up with a reason why Peter’s not god, but it seems they do have something special in mind.
Cybersnark brought up that Peter was wearing the Haitian's necklace with the mysterious symbol that keeps turning up everywhere. Amnesia could be a sign that the Haitian wiped his mind or attempted too.
Wonder where Peter has been for the past four months and what he has been doing.
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Quote:Yeah, in somewhat the same way Lydecker was in Dark Angel...
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
But Mr. Bennett was the most intriguing character.
I live for the Max ref Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Actually my favorite character from last season was always her father.
He took a while to grow on me, but I have to admit, he's one of my favorites now too. I think after "Company Man", all bets were off. And even though sometimes I don't agree with his decisions, he's still cool. But then again, those are the characters you love most, aren't they?
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Finally saw the premiere today because I was MIA last week. Just a few things to add with all that has already been said.
For a guy who can teleport and stop time Hiro spends an awful lot of time getting punched in the face. Apparently his father didn't train him to duck.
Funny how Claire and Noah are both pretending to not misbehave.
Nine more members of the group who tried to save the world. The others being Mr. Nakumura, the Petrellis, and Linderman. This is turning into the Legion of Doom.
So are Mohinder and Parkman living together with joint custody of Molly?
The writers did good by not trying to tie up everything that happened in the finale during this first episode. A lot of people seem to forget that during season 1 not every character appeared in every episode. I do believe at some point they will have to devote at least one episode to filling in the 4 month gap. Not sure that quick flashbacks or dialogue will cut it.
Still the best thing on TV.
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Go ahead and shoot me folks... I haven't seen heros, so all this is getting me MIIIIGHTY interested... I didn't catch enough of the beginning episodes to make me want to start the show halfway through the first season... so now I need to buy the first season and watch that... and try and start catching it regular like... anyone know where I can DL or buy episodes?
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Well, the S1 DVDs are out now, and you should be able to find torrents of S2 episodes. Or you can just "cast yourself" as a new character, and start watching now, catching up on backstory as you go (S2 introduced a few new characters; I'm sure they'll eventually ask questions and get backstoried up on anything important).
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Cybersnark brought up that Peter was wearing the Haitian's necklace with the mysterious symbol that keeps turning up everywhere. Amnesia could be a sign that the Haitian wiped his mind or attempted too.
Wonder where Peter has been for the past four months and what he has been doing.
I've been thinking about this. What if Peter's mind HASN'T been wiped? Yes we see the Haitian's necklace, and maybe that's meant to make us THINK his mind was wiped.
Just a thought...
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Cybersnark brought up that Peter was wearing the Haitian's necklace with the mysterious symbol that keeps turning up everywhere. Amnesia could be a sign that the Haitian wiped his mind or attempted too.
I won't pretend I even have a clue about what happened to Peter. But if we (as a collective) think that the Haitian has been brain-tampering Peter, couldn't it be at the request of (evil?) Mama Petrelli.
I mean, there must have been an elaborate plan in place for when he blew up NYC. That plan got screwed so maybe now this the new plan. But then who hired the guys to find Peter? Ack, my brain hurts!
Does anyone else think that the seemingly benign and nerdy dude who met with Mohinder is actually the Boogie Man in Molly's head?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stoweaway:
I won't pretend I even have a clue about what happened to Peter. But if we (as a collective) think that the Haitian has been brain-tampering Peter, couldn't it be at the request of (evil?) Mama Petrelli.
I mean, there must have been an elaborate plan in place for when he blew up NYC. That plan got screwed so maybe now this the new plan. But then who hired the guys to find Peter? Ack, my brain hurts!
Does anyone else think that the seemingly benign and nerdy dude who met with Mohinder is actually the Boogie Man in Molly's head?
That could be. Certainly would make sense and be very much in character for the manipulative Ma Petrelli.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat2007:
Go ahead and shoot me folks... I haven't seen heros, so all this is getting me MIIIIGHTY interested... I didn't catch enough of the beginning episodes to make me want to start the show halfway through the first season... so now I need to buy the first season and watch that... and try and start catching it regular like... anyone know where I can DL or buy episodes?
As others have mentioned you can buy season 1 on DVD - but you can also watch full episodes of the new season on nbc.com. Great for catching up - that's how I caught the first Bionic Woman that I'd somehow forgotten to set the DVR for.
NBC is really impressing me - both with the shows they're creating and with the ways they're letting you watch them.
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Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
Nine more members of the group who tried to save the world. The others being Mr. Nakumura, the Petrellis, and Linderman. This is turning into the Legion of Doom.
What about the guy who died that Peter was caring for when the show started? There were certainly some hints that he might have had powers, and I'm fairly sure he knew Mrs Petrelli.
Another possible member of the group - about the right age - would be Christopher Eccleston's character, the invisible man. He was a Company man, but it's unclear whether the Company and the Thirteen are completely separate. I seem to remember that Mr Nakamura was giving orders to Noah in one flashback.
Another would be the Haitian of course.
I assumed that the black-robed man who offed Mr Nakamura was the worse-than-the-boogeyman in Molly's dreams. If so, that's one more member of the Thirteen - if not, perhaps two...
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I don't think Claude's character was a member of the so-called "Legion Of Doom". He might of been working for them, like Noah, but not apart of the inner circle, so to speak.
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It's possible that Noah's boss was one of the 13. I doubt the Haitian was though; he's too young, and the Company already existed when he was found.
And yeah, Peter's patient was one of them (that's why they keep meeting on that particular rooftop).
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Lovin' 2.2:
Peter's pecs.
The Battle of Twelve Swords.
Claire's pinkie toe.
Yeah!
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I'll agree with Peter's pecs, Griz.
My biggest question this week would be the Haitian. Who's side is he on, exactly? I mean, sure he helped hide Claire, but you also saw him working for Mama Petrelli. Then again, he also ran when Mohinder came representing the company, and is going back to help Noah. But...Peter's memory being wiped didn't just happen out of the blue (well, maybe it did, but work with me here 
). Always mysterious, that one.
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"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin'. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd."
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And now Claire's secret is out as the boy crushing on her was spying through the window and saw her cut off her pinky toe and watch it grow back. Obvious love interest building there. Could they not come up with a more original power for him other than he can fly? We already have that covered with Nathan.
So the Haitian was the one with the virus. Interesting. So it hasn't jumped to humans yet, but seems to affect only the meta humans. How is it spread I wonder. Good to see him back in the game. He definitely seems to be on Noah's side, especially since he got spooked at Mohinder's mention of the company, mindwiped him, and took off.
Peter sure kicked the crap out of those two thugs. Seems he is getting a better handle on his abilities. Where did he get the spark power? Neat trick using DL's power to phase through his ropes. Cool how he used Sylar's telekinetic power to tear the shotgun out of the goon's hand and toss it across the room. Peter is becoming quite the bad@$$.
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How do you cut off your pinky toe with a pair of scissors? Seems like a difficult thing to do. I suppose I could test it, but I'm not that curious.
Peter is becoming quite the badass? When we left him in H1.23 he was god. So, as long as Peter has amnesia then he won’t remember that he’s god? Is that the story? Okay, I’ll play along. When he does finally remember who he is will he remember that he can do anything? And how many other powers will he have absorbed by then?
Did Mr. Bennett manipulate the Company? Or was it purely happenstance that Mohinder’s first task as Company medic was to cure the Haitian? It seems as if the whole thing with the Haitian may have been part of some larger plan, and if so, that means Bennett has some assets.
Maya has the ability to mimic a biological weapon. That has some promise, but does it mean she is the new tool of evil?
I was thinking that it’s cool that Heroes doesn’t try to insult people’s intelligence by making everyone speak the same language. In one episode of Heroes I heard English, Japanese, Spanish and I think French. I wasn’t paying close attention when Mohinder met the Haitian. I’m not sure what language he spoke but it had to have been French, because that’s the official language of Haiti. It might have been Creole, but why would Mohinder be fluent in Creole?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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BrownCoat1, Peter got the spark power from Ted, the radioactive guy. In addition to giving off radioactive energy, he could also manipulate electromagnetic energy.
I'm more concerned about what powers Peter gained in the final battle last season. If he has D.L.'s power, then does he also have Nikki's? 'Cause if so, we're screwed six ways 'til Sunday. The world does not need a dissociative identity-disordered Peter running around.
Also of interest is the girl Maya. I thought it was a good touch to have her brother be the antidote to her ability. The question that remains though, is who will get to her first? Her and her brother in the hands of the Company does not equal a good thing.
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"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin'. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd."
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Quote:It was French. Bad French, but French nonetheless (the kind of French that you'd expect to come from a British-educated Indian).
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I wasn’t paying close attention when Mohinder met the Haitian. I’m not sure what language he spoke but it had to have been French, because that’s the official language of Haiti.
And I think the Haitian's involvement was improvised.
Note both the Haitian's reaction to Mohinder's revelation that he works for the Company, and Mohinder's reaction to the Haitian knowing about the company.
I think they exchanged notes, decided to bring the Haitian into Bennet's plan, set up the meeting, then Mohinder took a voluntary mindwipe for plausible deniability.
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Quote:That’s an interesting point, but I don’t know that DID is really a “power.” Nikki’s power is superhuman strength, which just happened to manifest itself typically only during Nikki’s episodes. That was my take on it, anyway.
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
I'm more concerned about what powers Peter gained in the final battle last season. If he has D.L.'s power, then does he also have Nikki's? 'Cause if so, we're screwed six ways 'til Sunday. The world does not need a dissociative identity-disordered Peter running around.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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I had this exact discussion with my brother. He felt that the DID was merely because of Nikki's mental instability; I felt that her abilities and her disorder were not so easily separated. It's hard to really know for sure.
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Quote:That makes sense.
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
And I think the Haitian's involvement was improvised.
Also, Deepgirl’s point about Peter and Nikki makes me think about how Peter might be absorbing powers. Peter doesn’t seem to have absorbed Nikki’s superhuman strength, not to my knowledge. Did Peter never meet Nikki? It seems like he did, but I might be confusing some other things. I wish I had the Heroes DVD set so that I could check, but if Peter met Nikki, but not Jessica, then this suggest that Peter’s ability to absorb the powers of other heroes is sort of an empathic ability. We know that the ability rests in the brain and that “knowledge” of that ability can be acquired and manifested. Peter involuntarily reads or in some way is influenced by some quality of the minds of other heroes by which he extracts the “knowledge” of how to manifest that ability in himself. Nikki only had superhuman strength when her brain was associated with Jessica, because otherwise her brain blocked it out. If Peter met Nikki, but not Jessica, then it’s possible to say that Peter may have failed to accurately interpret the mental signature since it was being blocked by Nikki’s condition.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:You might be right. If Peter’s ability is empathic, than picking up Nikki’s strength may take with it the DID, since the two are obviously coupled in Nikkis’s mind.
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
I had this exact discussion with my brother. He felt that the DID was merely because of Nikki's mental instability; I felt that her abilities and her disorder were not so easily separated. It's hard to really know for sure.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
If Peter’s ability is empathic, than picking up Nikki’s strength may take with it the DID, since the two are obviously coupled in Nikkis’s mind.
Not any more. The way I remember it, Nikki resolved her DID issue at the end of last season, taking down Candace as Nikki when one of those reflected Jessicas told her that she was strong enough (while Candace took on Jessica's form and told her she was weak). It was a very powerful moment, I'm surprised everyone seems to have forgotten it
And I thought Peter demonstrated that he did have the super strength in his fight with the bad guys this last episode; he telekinesis'd one of them, but punched another one half way across the room.
As far as Mohinder and the Haitian, I assumed that Mohinder's mind wasn't wiped at all. The "improvised" theory is interesting, I wondered whether Mohinder let Noah know when he was assigned to go to Haiti, Noah guessed who the victim was, and they worked out their game plan together at that point. I'm surprised that Mohinder didn't let the Haitian in on the fact that he wasn't really working for the company from moment one - he seemed to be setting himself up for getting mindwiped before he could explain the full story... I guess it just wouldn't be good TV that way
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Anyone else having problems with the subtitles? I just can't read them fast enough. The worst was in Hiro's story line trying to read the conversation between the swordsmith's daughter, Hiro and Hiro's Hero (not even going to attempt to spell it). I'm all for them using foreign languages, but would they please allow the viewers to read the subtitles. I'm not a terribly fast reader, but the last episode's subtitles were ridiculous.
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I knew that Nikki had resolved her issues, but that still doesn’t change that Peter could have met Nikki in either of her two mental states. And I didn’t see any super-punch from Peter. It looked like it was all telekinesis, but I only watched it once, so I probably missed something.
Quote:I think I’m in favor of you bucking up and taking it like a man (or woman, as the case may be).
Originally posted by izzow:
Anyone else having problems with the subtitles? I just can't read them fast enough. The worst was in Hiro's story line trying to read the conversation between the swordsmith's daughter, Hiro and Hiro's Hero (not even going to attempt to spell it). I'm all for them using foreign languages, but would they please allow the viewers to read the subtitles. I'm not a terribly fast reader, but the last episode's subtitles were ridiculous.
I have trouble reading the subtitles too, so I feel your pain. I actually missed the whole conversation between Mohinder and the Haitian in French, but I don’t want them to change that. In fact, I want them to get rid of the stupid English in India. Mohinder shouldn’t be speaking English on the street in India or while teaching a class, unless there is some reason for it. And there are a lot of things I miss on the first go-round – so it’s not just the subtitles; the entire show is complex. Yeah, I’ll have to watch the show a couple of times to pick everything up, but any show that isn’t smart enough to be watched at least twice, probably isn’t worth my unwavering devotion.Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
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Just a thought.
I'm beginning to believe that the Haitian was intentionally given the virus as part of Noah & Mohinder's plan.
If the company believes there is a deadly virus out there that so far only effects people of power, then they would want it as a tool of control. It could be the red flag that Noah knew the company could not resist.
The haitian would likely know that he would be monitored, so the entire conversation between him and Mohinder could have been scripted, including the part about "you would have been dead by morning".
FX
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I knew that Nikki had resolved her issues, but that still doesn’t change that Peter could have met Nikki in either of her two mental states. And I didn’t see any super-punch from Peter. It looked like it was all telekinesis, but I only watched it once, so I probably missed something.
He met her in the fight with Sylar at the end of last season. She was with DL, Micah, Molly, Matt and Mohinder at the time, and I'm fairly sure she was Nikki. In fact now that I think about it I'm fairly sure that she went after Sylar, and Peter took her power then and delivered a superstrong beatdown on Sylar before he went all supernova.
I need to get a hold of those season one DVDs to rewatch the whole thing...
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Quote:
Originally posted by sab39:
He met her in the fight with Sylar at the end of last season. She was with DL, Micah, Molly, Matt and Mohinder at the time, and I'm fairly sure she was Nikki. In fact now that I think about it I'm fairly sure that she went after Sylar, and Peter took her power then and delivered a superstrong beatdown on Sylar before he went all supernova.
I need to get a hold of those season one DVDs to rewatch the whole thing...
Naw, you're right. He used super strength to take down Sylar at the end of last season. My problem is, didn't he say to call up his powers he had to remember the person he got them from? If his memory is wacked you'd think he'd be powerless.
I haven't been having any problems with the subtitles and I agree that I think its cool how international the show is becoming with all the different languages and locations. Yes, it was French Mohinder was speaking.
I don't know if Bennet is manipulating the company or not. As soon Mohinder got the assignment to Haiti he could have called Bennett who would tell him to cure the Haitian and then let his memory be wiped so that Bennet could be reunited with his old partner and Mohinder could play it off as a mistake.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
And there are a lot of things I miss on the first go-round – so it’s not just the subtitles; the entire show is complex. Yeah, I’ll have to watch the show a couple of times to pick everything up, but any show that isn’t smart enough to be watched at least twice, probably isn’t worth my unwavering devotion.
First, why would anyone watch a show that would intentionally make it hard to pick up on given information? I can understand going back to watch a show and noticing all the subtle clues that lead to the final result. However, any information in the dialog is given directly to the view, which can then be used by the viewer to guess where the show is going. Viewers trying to figure out where the show is going next is what makes a show interesting.
Second, the show is presented so poorly, I'm considering not watching the episodes a first time. Heroes is not peeking my interest, it's frustrating to get so little information each week because there are multiple plot/subplots advanced each episode. Additionally, the fact that no one can figure out how to use their powers to their advantage is insane. For example, Parkman keeps letting people know he can read minds by using the same words he hears in people's thoughts. Come on, try to be a little more clever. End of season one, why couldn't Peter just fly himself away, he didn't need Nathan. And there are much more.
For me, Heroes is not a smart show, so I don't care to watch it more than once, if at all.
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Quote:
Originally posted by izzow:
For example, Parkman keeps letting people know he can read minds by using the same words he hears in people's thoughts. Come on, try to be a little more clever.
Parkman just isn't very smart. That's always been part of his character. Remember, until he got his power he was a low-ranked unsuccessful cop oblivious to the fact that his wife was cheating on him. He's well-intentioned but fundamentally clueless.
Stands to reason that just because he got a power didn't suddenly make him smarter.
Quote:
Originally posted by izzow:
End of season one, why couldn't Peter just fly himself away, he didn't need Nathan. And there are much more.
He was devoting every bit of concentration he could muster into not blowing up. If he'd relaxed his concentration for just a second to try to fly at the same time, he'd probably have blown up on the spot.
I thought that was pretty clear from the context and I liked the fact that they gave the audience enough credit to not have to baby-step them through it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Peter is becoming quite the badass? When we left him in H1.23 he was god. So, as long as Peter has amnesia then he won’t remember that he’s god? Is that the story? Okay, I’ll play along. When he does finally remember who he is will he remember that he can do anything? And how many other powers will he have absorbed by then?
Yes, he was powerful, but he was held in check by his lack of confidence and the belief that he would be the cause of the destruction of NYC. Now that that disaster has been averted he may grow to be uber powerful.
I am still thinking he ran into the Haitian at some point, hence the amnesia.
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Did Mr. Bennett manipulate the Company? Or was it purely happenstance that Mohinder’s first task as Company medic was to cure the Haitian? It seems as if the whole thing with the Haitian may have been part of some larger plan, and if so, that means Bennett has some assets.
I do think that the Haitian and Mohinder plotted something. How else did the Haitian find Noah in California so fast? No doubt the Haitian mind wiped Mohinder to keep the Company from finding out about Noah and Mohinder's duplicity.
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Maya has the ability to mimic a biological weapon. That has some promise, but does it mean she is the new tool of evil?
True, she could be, but not willingly. More interesting is her brother seems able to absorb her fatal power and hold it in check. She only seems capable of using it when he is not around. I found it interesting he took the material out of the woman helping them across the border and she seemed fine.
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Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
BrownCoat1, Peter got the spark power from Ted, the radioactive guy. In addition to giving off radioactive energy, he could also manipulate electromagnetic energy.
I'm more concerned about what powers Peter gained in the final battle last season. If he has D.L.'s power, then does he also have Nikki's? 'Cause if so, we're screwed six ways 'til Sunday. The world does not need a dissociative identity-disordered Peter running around.
Well, we see Peter exhibit Nikki's enhanced strength in the bar fight when he barely swings and sends the guy flipping end over end to land ten feet away. I do not think however that Nikki's split personality will be an issue if that is what you are concerned about. That condition is not linked to her power but rather a traumatic childhood experience.
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Newest graphic novel went online today. It explains what happened between Mohinder and the Haitian:
http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/index.shtml?novel=53
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EDIT: Gah! Missed a same-time post by one minute!
New comic confirms that the Haitian and Mohinder came up with the plan. The memory-wipe is left unexplored, but I doubt Mohinder would put the whole operation at risk by trying to fake it.
And we get another representation of the Helix.
Also, this guy:
-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Quote:
Originally posted by derangedmilk:
Naw, you're right. He used super strength to take down Sylar at the end of last season. My problem is, didn't he say to call up his powers he had to remember the person he got them from? If his memory is wacked you'd think he'd be powerless.
Peter had to recall the feelings that he felt about the individuals to call up their specific powers at will.
That being said, he still HAS the ability to use the powers. Its just he won't know what powers or that he even has the powers (if his mind is really wiped - jury's still out on that one as far as I'm concerned).
He could have just as easily ripped the rope apart using Nikki's super strength. And on that tack: no, I do not believe that he inherited the DID from Nikki. Although the DID allowed Jessica to manifest, it was still Nikki's power - not Jessica's. And as was mentioned earlier, Jessica resolved her issues at the end of Season 1. And we'll be seeing more of her next week, so we can test the theory!
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Quote:I don’t think that’s the point. The subtitles are sometimes fast because people sometimes speak fast, and the subtitles have to follow the dialogue. It’s not a conspiracy to make your life miserable. But it’s just a tv show. If you don’t like it, find something else to do.
Originally posted by izzow:
First, why would anyone watch a show that would intentionally make it hard to pick up on given information?
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Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
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Quote:You just gave me an idea. If peter’s ability comes from some form of empathy ability, and he learns how to mimic the powers of other heroes, then shouldn’t it be possible that the Haitian can, by wiping his memory, destroy his ability to use a certain powers?
Originally posted by Stegasaurus:
That being said, he still HAS the ability to use the powers. Its just he won't know what powers or that he even has the powers (if his mind is really wiped - jury's still out on that one as far as I'm concerned).
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
New comic confirms that the Haitian and Mohinder came up with the plan. The memory-wipe is left unexplored, but I doubt Mohinder would put the whole operation at risk by trying to fake it.
I don't see why that would be such a risk - unless you're assuming that the company will put him in a room with someone else with mind reading powers? In which case the entire operation would be at risk ANYWAY because he still knows he's in touch with Noah, the supposed memory-wipe didn't take that away.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You just gave me an idea. If peter’s ability comes from some form of empathy ability, and he learns how to mimic the powers of other heroes, then shouldn’t it be possible that the Haitian can, by wiping his memory, destroy his ability to use a certain powers?
I would say, to call them at will, yes. But completely remove them? I don't think so. But if they could, what about Sylar? Could the Haitian remove Sylar's memory of the powers he's collected? They still haven't exactly established how he "absorbs" the powers. Not on the show, and not in the comics. Great point though!
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Just wanted to bump this tread. Liked the premiere, LOVED the second episode even more. I loved that Claire has finally gotten past the whole "I'm a freak" thing and has not only embraced her healing abilities, but wants to know more and expand her powers.
And I also loved Hiro standing in for Kensei and trying to fix the past. "Why does he keep calling himself that?" and "Go and write this down in your history books. Call it the Battle of the Twelve Swords!"
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Oh, poopy. Why do they have to go and kill off Noah? 
Cool episode tonight. Who was that couple kissing in the background, I wonder? I'm thinking maybe Nikki, as it was a blond, and the corporation did ask her to take care of something.
And it looks like one of my predictions came true, and that Peter is going to develop Nikki's power. Which sucks beyond belief. God knows what he'll do...
This is just a theory, but is it possible that Claire is descended from Takezo Kensei (think that's how you spell it)? They do have identical powers after all.
More questions, less answers. Looks to be a good season.
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Thought I'd start us a new thread for this eppy:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=30917
-e
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Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Oh, poopy. Why do they have to go and kill off Noah?
Don't write Noah off yet. We have seen that not all of Isaac's paintings come true. It could be that Noah knowing about the painting he will be able to avoid the events that lead up to his death.
Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Cool episode tonight. Who was that couple kissing in the background, I wonder? I'm thinking maybe Nikki, as it was a blond, and the corporation did ask her to take care of something.
Wish I could have seen the pic better. It could have been Nikki, but it might have been Claire too. Were they kissing or was the shadowy male figure trying to keep the blonde from seeing Noah dead? Hard to tell from the pic. Your theory that it is Nikki fulfilling a task for the Company as payment for her being "cured" of her powers is a likely one.
Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
And it looks like one of my predictions came true, and that Peter is going to develop Nikki's power. Which sucks beyond belief. God knows what he'll do...
Still not convinced that Peter is going to develop a dual personality like Nikki. It is my firm belief that the Nikki/Jessica condition was caused by childhood trauma and not as some sort of side effect of Nikki's power. There is no indication that Peter will develop some split identity. The impression I got was that Peter was getting a rush off of the use of his power and that he liked the feeling of being in control. You know the old saying about power corrupting, it could be that is the dark road the writers are going to explore with Peter.
Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
This is just a theory, but is it possible that Claire is descended from Takezo Kensei (think that's how you spell it)? They do have identical powers after all.
You know, that was the first thing I thought of last week when we see Hiro pull the first arrow out of Kensei and he heals before our eyes. I wondered if there is some sort of link between Kensei and Claire. I haven't completely dismissed the possibility yet, but I don't think it very likely. Claire's new boyfriend can fly just like Nathan Petrelli, but does that mean they are related? I would find that far too hard to believe since Claire is Nathan's daughter. What are the odds Nathan has another child out there with powers and that his two illegitimate children would bump into each other.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Still not convinced that Peter is going to develop a dual personality like Nikki. It is my firm belief that the Nikki/Jessica condition was caused by childhood trauma and not as some sort of side effect of Nikki's power. There is no indication that Peter will develop some split identity.
I see your point here. But if you noticed, Peter developed the same type of tattoo that Nikki/Jessica has. His power might not take the form of DID, but it is possible that he will develop a darker (and possibly violent) side to his personality as a direct result of his ability. On the other hand, seeing Peter with a darker edge (but not insane; too many of those in the show already) would add an interesting dimension to his character.
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
What are the odds Nathan has another child out there with powers and that his two illegitimate children would bump into each other.
Plus, eww (if they are indeed related).
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Considering that Claire's boyfriend had those marks on his neck and he remembers his attacker as someone who sports horned rim glasses he could be the one to kill Noah. It stands to reason that either he wants revenge or is another "hero" who has fallen under the influence of The Company. I thought from the first that he seemed a little shady, it is entirely possible that he is some kind of plant looking for people with abilities.
It sucks that DL had to go. He was my favorite character out of that family. Funny how Micah is now under the care of another ex-Trekker.
I've got the feeling that Sylar is still under the influence of an illusion and that he did not actually kill Candace. She kept making references to the people she worked for being interested in him. If anyone were really interested in keeping him alive why would he be moved to a shack in the middle of nowhere? It is more likely that he would be taken to one of their state of the art facilities. Perhaps somewhere in the building Mohinder is now working...wouldn't that be appropriate? I also have a hard time believing her explanation as to how she dragged him away from Kirby plaza. After all Nikki had knocked her out just before Sylar was stabbed.
I keep getting the feeling that Kensai is the man going after the older heroes. Hiro's father made mention of them paying for something they did in the past. At some point they must have royally screwed him over, pushing him down a darker path. I also think whoever this guy turns out to be he isn't the same as Molly's Nightmare Man.
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Peter is certainly moving towards a darker side. I think this is an attempt to curtail his powers. As long as he is using them to jack armored trucks then he can’t use them to take over the world or thwart the efforts of real villains. Whether he has developed a psychological Nikkiness – I don’t know. I actually think that if he goes bad it will be more of a Sylar-Power-corrupts factor then a Nikki-I’m-Nuts factor. Although I have to admit that having Peter absorb Nikki’s psychosis along with her power would not only be more interesting but would add dimension to the whole absorbing powers stuff. However, I think that if that were the case, then we would have seen evidence of it so far. A tattoo of the Godsend character doesn’t do much for me, because that character shows on everything for no particular reason other than to be there.
Maya took her first real step towards the inevitable. She used her powers for evil. Sure, she probably expected that her brother would fix the problem, but when her brother isn’t around, then what? Maya is completely emotionally dependent on her brother. Without him she is a VX canister waiting to go off.
Is Claire related to Kensai? It’s entirely possible that many heroes are related to one another. Except for a few who have the ability to manifest powers, most people gain them the old-fashioned way by having parents with them. This sort of suggests that, except for a Mule here and there, there are one or more lineages of heroes. In fact, this is has sort of been an underlying theme.
Also, powers are not distributed infinitely (everyone has different powers), but certain types of powers seem to be more common.
Concerning the issue of geek casting, there is really only Keonig left from the original series, unless anyone thinks they will get Shatner or Nimoy on the show, but I doubt it. Or maybe they will – I don’t know. This show could be a lot bigger then I think it is. I don’t get out much.
I have to admit that I’m happy DL bit it. They really should have killed off Parkman and probably one other. There are just too many characters. And what power does Uhura have? The ability to communicate across sub-space channels?
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One thing I always wanted them to explore was the consequences of Peter absorbing powers. I seem to remember early in Season One where Mohinder mentioned that Peter's ability worked like a sponge; if he absorbed too many abilities, he could become unstable. Is that still the case? It would be interesting to see what kind of form that instability took.
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Looks like you guys hit the heavy topics.
I am in the following camps:
-Kensei prolly is related to the Claire being that most of the story seems to fate based.
-Sylar is still under an illusion being that he didn’t absorb any powers. But, they totally flip the script on ya all the time. So………
-On the fence about whether “high school flying boy” is part of the Co. or running from it. I did see a TV guide interview with Noah where he says he would be flying in a future ep. But not under his own power. So, I’m guessing it's this guy.
-No clue on whether Peter absorbed Nikki’s psychosis, but it would make for interesting story. ..and possibly make some regret letting Peter live (i.e..Nathan) at the end of last season.
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
They really should have killed off Parkman and probably one other. There are just too many characters.
Nah, Parkman (whatever his real name is) is too good of an actor. Hopefully his role will become more crucial as time goes on.
Quote:
And what power does Uhura have? The ability to communicate across sub-space channels?
I'm thinkin' we'll see a voodoo doll or communication with the dead. …which would be perfect for Micah to talk to his dad.
If this was covered in an earlier post, I’m sorry… But, Do you think Nathan and his Mom think Peter is dead or are they doing a good job of covering it up for his own safety?
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Quote:I don’t see any reason to think that that is the case. Mama Patrelli is never easy to read, because she’s a member of the syndicate. She might turn up next week having known everything. Nathan is easier to read and I think he’s grief is genuine.
Originally posted by pdcharles:
If this was covered in an earlier post, I’m sorry… But, Do you think Nathan and his Mom think Peter is dead or are they doing a good job of covering it up for his own safety?
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Just saw the entire show for the first time for free on Netflix over the past few days. Got a lot to say/think about, but I just wanted to get this in:
I don't think the Haitian had anything to do with Peter's amnesia. As we saw with Claude Rains, Peter's absorption ability makes it so he's "in" on whatever power is being used against him. He was the only person who could see Claude, and he wasn't frozen in time/space when Future-Hiro stopped time on the subway. If the Haitian ever tried to erase his memory, Pete would simply pick up the power himself.
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Quote:I don’t think the Haitian had anything to do with Peter’s amnesia either. It’s not his MO. The Haitian memory washing ability has always indiscriminately eliminated memories in sequential order of acquisition from the time the washing occurred. Peter can’t remember many basic facts about his own person including his own name. How could the Haitian have removed memory Peter’s memory of his own name, without turning Peter into the mental equivalent of a one year old? It doesn’t make any sense.
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Just saw the entire show for the first time for free on Netflix over the past few days. Got a lot to say/think about, but I just wanted to get this in:
I don't think the Haitian had anything to do with Peter's amnesia. As we saw with Claude Rains, Peter's absorption ability makes it so he's "in" on whatever power is being used against him. He was the only person who could see Claude, and he wasn't frozen in time/space when Future-Hiro stopped time on the subway. If the Haitian ever tried to erase his memory, Pete would simply pick up the power himself.
However, I don’t agree that there is any reason to believe that the Haitian’s memory washing ability wouldn’t work on Peter. Peter would acquire the ability, but does that necessarily mean that Peter’s memory wouldn’t be removed? In fact, if Peter’s ability resides as memory, then the Haitian could effectively prevent Peter from acquiring the ability by washing it from Peter’s mind.
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Is it just me, or is there something...off about West? I don't know what it is, but I don't like him.
It seems that Sylar hasn't given up his homicidal ways. But I do find it interesting that he introduced himself as Gabriel. Also wondering what the significance of the cockroaches is.
Matt's father as one of the evil parents. This kind of reminds me of Runaways (all of the main characters have evil parents). I wonder if his dad's power is somehow connected to Molly's (kind of like Alejandro and Maya).
And as a former wrestling fan, seeing Micah's cousin (can't remember her name) do the 619 completely rocked out.
It seems Ms. Bell will be a villain. Any reactions from VM fans?
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"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."
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Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Is it just me, or is there something...off about West?
I don't know what it is, but I don't like him.It seems Ms. Bell will be a villain. Any reactions from VM fans?
Yes, I'm looking forward to seeing her next week, she does seem to be evil.
What if West was the one that killed Hiro's dad, I mean the person who killed him seemed to have a flying power or something to help him escape the fall. And to me, the person who pushed him looked kinda young.
And there is just something I don't trust about him.
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There are children throwing snowballs instead of throwing heads.
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There is wrong and then there's wrong...and man was I wrong. Every single one of my predictions was a complete whiff. Three strikes and I'm out, didn't even manage a foul tip. Now that's just bad.
On to the episode. I still don't trust West. Usually when a guy pulls the stunts he's pulling it is to get in a girl's pants but I believe he is working towards a more sinister purpose. I'm not liking what Claire is turning into. She's starting to remind me of what I thought she was going to be at the beginning of season 1. It also looks like HRG is back to his old tricks.
I sure did not forsee Parkman's father as the big bad. If his ability is what I think it is he reminds me of The Shadow King from the X-men comics. He may be forcing others with abilities to do the hands on work for him.
I don't quite know what to make of Sylar, or should I say Gabriel. For a few moments he appeared to show some regret. Don't know if it was genuine remorse about what he has done or him lamenting the apparent loss of his abilities. Whatever his motives may be he is playing a dangerous game with the wonder twins.
Micah's cousin appears to have an ability quite similar to the one Gabriel started out with. I wonder if only pertains to learning physical skills or if she will be able to learn to use other abilities a la Peter and Sylar.
Next week's episode looks very promising.
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Great episode!
I agree, there is just something off about West. Can't put my finger on it yet, but there certainly seems to be more to him than what we are seeing so far. Claire's lying to her dad repeatedly is starting to take her down a path that is not too pretty.
What are Noah and the Haitian up to. Why are they heading to Odessa, TX? How are they funding the Bennett's lifestyle and his side missions? Obviously some squirreled away money. Perhaps a secret company fund he built?
What is with the horrible burn reflection we keep seeing of Nathan in the mirror? Was he wounded when Peter blew over NYC, but somehow healed? Is he losing it? Hope he gets it back on track. Like his mother said, he is looking for redemption, let's just hope it doesn't come with his death.
What convinced Molly to look for Matt's dad, the "Nightmare Man"? She was so adamant that she wouldn't do it, but then seemed to change her mind easily enough. I agree that Matt's dad's ability does remind me somewhat of the Shadow King from the X-Men. How did he trap Molly? In her own mind? Could it be Matt's potential is as yet untapped? Are his powers hereditary?
Sylar! Boo! Hiss! I hate that guy! Why won't he just die already! Was it the company that had him in the jungles of Central America? If so why did they not take more precautions in securing him? I hope he doesn't kill the twins.
Micah's cousin has photographic reflexes! That is so freakin' cool! I want that power! If she sees it done she can duplicate the skill herself flawlessly. Just like Taskmaster from the Marvel Universe. She could watch martial arts exhibitions and become one kickbutt fighter.
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Quote:Television people often live more opulent lifestyles then reality would suggest, so I’m not sure what to think of Bennett’s big house. But certainly a house like that in Southern California would cost virgin blood on the solstice. And I don’t think they’re going to Odessa Texas – I thought they said something about the Ukraine.
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
What are Noah and the Haitian up to. Why are they heading to Odessa, TX? How are they funding the Bennett's lifestyle and his side missions? Obviously some squirreled away money. Perhaps a secret company fund he built?
I’m going to hope it does come with Nathan’s death, but it probably won’t.
Molly hardly needed a reason to change her mind about searching for Matt’s dad. Little girls are easily convinced of just about anything. Now Suresh is going to hate Matt, and Matt is going to hate himself and they’ll both hate Matt’s father.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
I'm not liking what Claire is turning into. She's starting to remind me of what I thought she was going to be at the beginning of season 1.
Let's be fair here. If Claire is developing a penchant for lying, it had to be learned. And since her mother and brother don't exactly fit the profile, who would that teacher be? Lying has been such a common occurrence in her family, it's probably becoming second nature to Claire. And it's not like Noah has been up front recently either. It's only fair to spread the blame in this situation equally.
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"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."
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Yeah, it does look like Nathan truly believes Peter is dead. But, still not convinced about his mother. She wants Parkman to “let it go”. She didn’t let him know about his father and clearly knows about him. For his safety? Or another master plan?
Great Shadow King catch. I think that is what is going on with Matt's dad. Maybe West DID kill Hiro's dad by being controlled by him. Maybe he is controlling Peter’s mom now after the attack. (being that her wounds were self inflicted) She did have an evil look in her eye as she was wheeled off.
On Sylar:
I was wrong, he is not still under any illusion.
Possibilities -
He is still not sure if he can absorb powers so is waiting to kill them.
Or Prolly keeping the twins alive until he understands their power more
Or Plans to kill the brother so he can be the only one to stop the pestilence once it starts.
And Boy does he like killin’ peeps with blunt objects.
I was thinking when he killed the driver, he would start speaking fluent Spanish because the guy knew it or something to give us a clue his power was back. We did hear the clock ticking noise before he killed him and saw the cockroach. Were they clues that it is back? (can’t remember if we heard this when he killed Candace)
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that DL is not dead. He is in fact the killer. I don't know why he is killing them, I just know that he is.
My evidence:
1) The shape of the man who attacked Kaito matches.
2) When the two fell off the building the attacker disappeared. This is b/c DL just phased through the ground into the sewers for safety
3) Ms. Petrelli was attacked in a police station behind locked doors. Who do we know who could get in there? DL.
That's just my theory, we'll see how it plays off.
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People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dewrastler:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that DL is not dead. He is in fact the killer. I don't know why he is killing them, I just know that he is.
My evidence:
1) The shape of the man who attacked Kaito matches.
2) When the two fell off the building the attacker disappeared. This is b/c DL just phased through the ground into the sewers for safety
3) Ms. Petrelli was attacked in a police station behind locked doors. Who do we know who could get in there? DL.
Hmmm... anything is possible with this storyline.
They did say Ma Petrelli's wounds were self-inflicted. Now, they could have said that because they just couldn't explain it and she is playing dumb and knows of the “Nightmare Man”.
Some say Sylar/Gabriel may become a good guy or seems to show regret. K, back to the “Shadow King” theory. Was Sylar under the influence of the nightmare man this whole time? Did Noah capture him for the Co. unaware of the top dog’s master plan for him. I have to say this is far-fetched too. Because Sylar is, surely, genuinely disturbed and power hungry. But, I am sure they could recognize that too. This theory "kinda" answers the “why did they not take more precautions in securing him?” question. Secretly rescue him from the sewer, save him, and only have one person watching over him. K, Sylar escaped the Co. once by using powers in a room where he was not supposed to be able to use them. Now, they may be making him think he really doesn’t have powers and he does?
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Quote:Actually, it reminded me more of Charlie (I miss Charlie
Originally posted by singate:
Micah's cousin appears to have an ability quite similar to the one Gabriel started out with.
), what with the whole "see it, remember it" thing.-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Quote:He had to have socked away untraceable money somewhere, 'cause $8.50 an hour won't really pay for something that BIG...
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Television people often live more opulent lifestyles then reality would suggest, so I’m not sure what to think of Bennett’s big house.
Obviously Chrisisall
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In tv land, where a bunch of relatively poor twenty something’s can afford a huge apartment on Manhattans Upper East Side, I get the impression that $8.50 an hour goes a lot further then it does in the real world.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:The Friends benefited from rent-control...
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
In tv land, where a bunch of relatively poor twenty something’s can afford a huge apartment on Manhattans Upper East Side, I get the impression that $8.50 an hour goes a lot further then it does in the real world.
The Bennet Big House is over-the-top for even TV Land, he MUST have hidden resources!
That's a 3 mill crib easy Chrisisall
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Quote:I won’t even validate that with a response.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
The Friends benefited from rent-control...
Quote:Okay, well I still think it’s risky to put too much into the assumed value of the house, but maybe he had stock options? Who knows what the dividend a share of stock in a clandestine supralegal ubiquitous shadowy company pays.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
The Bennet Big House is over-the-top for even TV Land, he MUST have hidden resources!
Or what about this – just before the Haitian came down with the HV he came across some rich dude who had just bought outright a house in S. Cal., wiped his mind so that he didn’t remember buying it, so that Bennett and his family could move in.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Or what about this – just before the Haitian came down with the HV he came across some rich dude who had just bought outright a house in S. Cal., wiped his mind so that he didn’t remember buying it, so that Bennett and his family could move in.
Mr. Fantastic much?
Yer stretchin' here, Finn Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
[And I don’t think they’re going to Odessa Texas – I thought they said something about the Ukraine.
You're right. Went back and watched it again. Noah asks "Odessa Texas?" and the Haitian responds "Ukraine".
This should be interesting.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Or what about this – just before the Haitian came down with the HV he came across some rich dude who had just bought outright a house in S. Cal., wiped his mind so that he didn’t remember buying it, so that Bennett and his family could move in.
Mr. Fantastic much?
Yer stretchin' here, Finn Chrisisall
You know, at the annual "Company" picnic. You get a few drinks in Bob (alchemy man), the next thing you know, you've got enough gold for that summer home.
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Hey All
Can someone explain to me why everyone hates this show now? It's weird. I read the TV Watch on this at EW.com, and for some reason, everyone there is saying that so far the season has been lackluster and it sucks and that it's gone hugely downhill and all that, and I'm sitting there on Monday night, completely giddy at watching West and Claire hover between the letters of the Hollywood sign in a perfect homage to the "Can You Read My Mind" moment of SUPERMAN, intrigued with the painting of Noah dead and genuinely freaked out when Molly goes into shock and Matt can hear her screaming for him in her head and realizing that his Dad has kidnapped her. I think the show is just as good as ever. Plus, it's only been like four episodes in. You can't gauge the quality of a season by four beginning episodes. I like to think of it as exposition before getting into the real meat of the season, which guessing by the appearance of Kristen Bell next week is right around the corner.
Is anyone else baffled by this, or does anyone here actually think that season 2 of HEROES so far sucks? Because I don't, and I'm a huge HEROES fan.
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"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."
Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack
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Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
Is anyone else baffled by this, or does anyone here actually think that season 2 of HEROES so far sucks? Because I don't, and I'm a huge HEROES fan.
I think this season is great Regina! Weird.
Ask one or two of the posters what IS a good show on this fall season and why?
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I think that most people expect this season to be exactly like the first season, and thus, the dissing. American TV viewers don't tend to handle change that well. I think the show is going in a fascinating direction, but people don't want to be patient enough to see that happen.
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"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."
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Oh, I am loving it! Sure, I miss "Odessa, Texas", but I'm flexible .
Hiroisall
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Quote:Well, I certainly don’t. One thing this season seems to lack so far is the innocent discovery angle. I think last season everyone was interested in watching various heroes struggling to come to terms with extraordinary abilities. This season seems to be more about the more ominous side of things, and I’m not sure how much of that was intended and how much was forced on the writers by the network or by circumstance. I think the original intent was to have a much more evolving cast, than they ended up with, and I think that hurts them, especially with the critics. And right now the story is kind of disjointed, with several storylines that aren’t making a lot of sense – the same way it was last season at this time – but last season we were interested in the novelty of it. There problem is that there are just far too many main characters, but I think once the story gets started, things will pick up with the critics.
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
Is anyone else baffled by this, or does anyone here actually think that season 2 of HEROES so far sucks? Because I don't, and I'm a huge HEROES fan.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
I like to think of it as exposition before getting into the real meat of the season, which guessing by the appearance of Kristen Bell next week is right around the corner.
Is anyone else baffled by this, or does anyone here actually think that season 2 of HEROES so far sucks?
I think you've kinda answered your own question. Ordinaries aren't very patient. They want their gratification NOW!! Taking time to set the stage, slowly building up the drama and exposition. . . Most people (people-not-us) see that as "bad." They just want their action porn.
We, OTOH, have more sublime and refined tastes.
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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I wasn't aware there was so much dissing about this season. People who followed the show last year should remember that things started off slowly then as well. It wasn't until characters' individual stories began to merge that things really coalesced. People who didn't watch from the beginning and decided to give the show a chance because of the buzz created last season may have been expecting super powered brawls each week. Then there are those types who enjoy bashing and want to be the first to say, "see, I told you all season 2 was going to suck".
I'm inclined to say to hell with all of them, they can watch some reality crap. The realist in me knows this isn't a good thing because then Heroes would be quickly canceled.
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Quote:I don’t think critics will decide when or if Heroes gets canceled. Ratings are what matters, and my understanding is that ratings for Heroes are still high in the 18-49 age group.
Originally posted by singate:
I'm inclined to say to hell with all of them, they can watch some reality crap. The realist in me knows this isn't a good thing because then Heroes would be quickly canceled.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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I don't dislike this season by any means, but I have been somewhat dissapointed. Too much wheel-spinning with the two most powerfull characters - Hiro and Peter.
Hiro's Japanese adventure has been extremely predictable so far, so even though I'm a fan of that era of history, and even a fan of David "Kensei" Anders, I've been somewhat bored by that storyline. That, and the logic errors have made it a bit hard to swallow - no one noticed for hundreds of years that the butt of the sword said "open me" and was filled with notes?
And Peter's amnesia is just infuriating. I find amnesia as a plot point to be lazy writing in general, but his "I don't want to know who I am" bit just reeked of a stalling move on the writer's part.
As cool as both characters are, I see this as being an ongoing problem, unless they can figure out a new dynamic pretty quick. Both of these guys can essentially do whatever they want (especially Peter), and just simply out-class all the other characters we've seen, in terms of power. There are just so many times that Hiro can loose control of his powers becuase his confidence is shaken. And Peter's amnesia can only hold out so long.
Oh, and the wonder twins are boring the hell out of me. I thought Nikki/Jessica's story was too directionless and meandering last year. These two easily top her. I hope Syler kills one or both of them soon.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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I got no problem with this season compared to last. I'm not finding the Hiro's hero storyline very engaging at all, but this series has a way of redeeming what look like silly set-ups. I expect I'll be pleased with what Hiro takes away from his Medieval Adventure.
I got no problem with Peter's amnesia, I have enough faith in the show to think the writers will prove to have "earned" it. And I even buy Peter's misgivings about finding out who he really is--can't imagine his psyche is/would be having a good time integrating "I blew up" too well.
I know there's a lot of folks who find Superman level powers "boring" or "impossible to write for" but I find the subject kinda fascinating (I grant there have been many tremendous failures, but I don't think the subject has been exhausted therefore, by any means). To me, it's a lot like assuming that rich people have perfect stress-free lives. There's a lot more to being human than having lots and lots of what someone calls "power." I think they did a very good job of showing us Peter's flaws and troubles that go beyond being able to fly/shoot lightning/go invisible/blow up, etc.
I'm really hoping that the plot this season begins to explain my biggest question from last season, namely: what the heck was it that made the last generation of super people go so bad (excepting Charles, of course--loved his conversation out of time with Peter about love)? I mean, here we got a guy who can make lame men walk and blind men see and he's running casinos and taking out contracts on people? What happened there?
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
I'm really hoping that the plot this season begins to explain my biggest question from last season, namely: what the heck was it that made the last generation of super people go so bad (excepting Charles, of course--loved his conversation out of time with Peter about love)? I mean, here we got a guy who can make lame men walk and blind men see and he's running casinos and taking out contracts on people? What happened there?
"Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."
I think that explaining the actions of the last generation is going to be one of the main themes of this season. If you think about it, what they've really been focusing is how things got to where they are now. Noah and Mohinder are looking for answers in The Company, Nathan and Matt are focusing on the actions of their parents, Hiro has found what may be the source of everyone's abilities. I think all of these divergent story lines really center around the previous generation in one way or another.
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"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."
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Parkman's dad had me fooled there for a minute but in his own words he is a real scumbag. Tricking Matt and Nathan into fighting each other was a nice touch. I like that Matt's ability is starting to evolve, the one true thing his father said is that "reading minds is only the beginning". Maybe the people who wanted Matt killed off because he could only read minds will shut up now.
Ms. Bell doesn't know how lucky she was to have been pulled from her assignment. She would have been shocked(pun intended) to find out Peter would have been unaffected by her ability. Pretty cold blooded of her frying that guy the way she did. You would think she has a lower power setting for interrogation.
Mohinder is treading dangerous water. Oddly enough Noah warned him not to do exactly what he always does: whatever is necessary to save someone he cares for. I imagine The Company will try to twist him into another HRG.
Speaking of The Company they must have promised Nikki that they could suppress Jessica completely. It's more likely that they are interested in Jessica becomming the dominant personality in order to utilized her people skills. Looks like she wasn't too interested in complicance. Big shock! I'm liking her story arc a lot more this year.
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We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.
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Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
"Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Hey deepgirl,
I think that's stretching the context of the original idea to the breaking point. The "power" Lord Acton was talking about was political power, not personal powers, gifts or abilities. Just because you're a wiz at math doesn't mean you're a bad person. Einstein and Da Vinci weren't corrupt, either.
I'll grant you, a person has the power to control other people's minds, he may very well use it to do harm; but the ability to heal? How ya gonna use that to further your selfish ends? No, I think Linderman went bad very much in spite of his healing gift. And I wanna know why.
Interestingly, in tonight's episode, "Fight or Flight," Parkman's corrupt father suggests that "power corrupts" as well in his deceitful manipulation of his son and Nathan. I think that's a sure sign that the answer lies elsewhere.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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So Veronica Mars is Doctor Doom, apparently?
I see your point, HK. But I also think that some of the previous generation (and for that matter, this generation) of Heroes felt that becuase they had these amazing powers all of a sudden, that gave them the excuse to use them however they wanted, with no consequence as to who they hurt in the process. I think it would be very easy to take that whole "I can do whatever I want" mentality. And I also think that Linderman's healing gift worked in the opposite direction as well. Kind of like Shawn Ferrell on The 4400.
On another note, it amazes me how many people don't like Matt. I always saw him as an average guy trying to do the best he could. And considering the circumstances, that's a pretty tall order. I'm glad they seem to be evolving his ability. You can do a lot of interesting things with telepathy.
Why did Peter buy a plane ticket to Montreal, I wonder? Unless the worst is happening like I feared, and he does have an alternate personality. Which also probably means they're going to have to kill him off, or somehow make him less powerful, like they're doing with Sylar.
Which brings me to another point. In the promo for next week, we saw Sylar telling Alejandro he would kill him once he got his ability back. Does he also plan to kill Maya? It will be interesting to see what he plans to do. I'm thinking the writers might be leaning towards, if not redemption, a reassessment of values for Sylar.
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"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."
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Well, Ms Bell's character sure will bring something to the mix. She seems to work for the Company? Daddy? Who is her father? Could it be Mohinder's contact at the Company? Somehow I am thinking it is a player we have not seen yet.
So Peter has a plane ticket for Montreal and paints a picture of two shadowy figures, presumably he and Caitlin, outside a building in said town. Could be he was working a lead or contact prior to his memory loss which would explain the ticket. His power to see the future could have been triggered by a strong need to go there. Opening the box sure was anti-climatic.
Not much on Hiro this week. He's still running around with Kensei trying to right history.
I like that Micca and his cousin (still forgetting her name) are forming a bond. Muscle mimic? I like the sound of that. Copycat? Not so much. Cool how she was watching "Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story" and picking up his moves. Should be interesting to see where they take her character.
Matt's dad is a good bad guy. I can't believe Matt fell for his crap and followed him alone into the back room. Good to know Matt's power can grow and take on new aspects. Can't wait to see them develop his character a bit more.
I agree that the Company might be trying to suppress Nikki and let Jessica gain total control. Could be they want Jessica as an operative.
Alejandro doesn't understand English, so Sylar's threat probably means nothing to him. Sylar knows Maya is the only one of the twins to speak English so I doubt he makes his threat where she can hear it. Alejandro is no fool though, so I doubt he missed the look on Sylar's face or his tone. He didn't look too happy with Sylar either. Could be a showdown brewing between those two, but if Sylar gets his powers back no way Alejandro will last a minute against him.
I still don't see Peter as having a split personality or going bad like Sylar. I think Peter is young and still trying to find his place. No doubt his nearly being responsible for the destruction of NYC screwed with his head, but I'm still am not convinced his exposure to Nikki has caused him to develop a split personality.
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I think the explanation for Peter's amnesia is more simple than the Haitian or a split personality. I think it boils down to one of two things. Either his brain was knocked out of whack from releasing so much energy or his subconcious tried to repress the memory of killing Nathan.
The whole Sylar/wonder twins story seemed to be going nowhere but for the preview next week. There was also a line in the preview about someone experimenting with the virus. If that is referring to what Maya does it is may possible that she and her brother did not come by their abilities naturally. She could be sent to a location, do her viral thing, then send him in when the job is done to contain the outbreak. Those abilities seem tailor made for use as a biological weapon.
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Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
But I also think that some of the previous generation (and for that matter, this generation) of Heroes felt that becuase they had these amazing powers all of a sudden, that gave them the excuse to use them however they wanted, with no consequence as to who they hurt in the process. I think it would be very easy to take that whole "I can do whatever I want" mentality.
Yes, absolutely. Wouldn't have thought ol' Lindy's power could be reversed, but this is a sci-fi fantasy show, so anything goes, of course.
I surely hope they don't "feel the need" to disempower Peter or Gabriel permanently. I don't see how either of them is "god" and there is still plenty of room for vulnerability and confusion from these two--and dealing with forces they can't handle. It's so very weak to open a door with the narrative and simply close it again, 'cause the writers can't rise to the occasion.
I like the idea of Gabriel having to start from scratch steeling new powers. Hey, did anyone else hear him say something like "once I get my body back" in the teaser for next week? It looks to me that the writers are very interested in making Gabriel as complicated a personality as they can. A little hope of redemption here, a little back-sliding there, a dash of sympathy and a pound of brutality. Don't much see him getting the full redemption treatment, though--I mean, he did bash that fellow's brains in with a brick without a second thought and without super powers. Yeah, he's a bad man. On the other hand, if he did get redemption it would prolly have to be the sacrificing himself to bring down the Company type o' deal. Or, now that I'm thinking along these lines, Gabriel could gain a power that has a side effect of making him realize how precious life is and he has to go through some tremendous metamorphosis.
Part of the trouble with Matt is he's such a normie. He and Mohinder have been gobbling up blue pills since the series began--they just haven't realized how lawless and dangerous their world actually is. "Hey, Molly is terrified of some guy she calls the Nightmare Man and says that if she finds him he can see her--so let's have her find the guy!" "Hey, I'll infiltrate the Company and then rely on them to protect me!" The two of them are pretty funny in a messed up sorta way.
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Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
I also think that some of the previous generation (and for that matter, this generation) of Heroes felt that becuase they had these amazing powers all of a sudden, that gave them the excuse to use them however they wanted, with no consequence as to who they hurt in the process. I think it would be very easy to take that whole "I can do whatever I want" mentality. And I also think that Linderman's healing gift worked in the opposite direction as well. Kind of like Shawn Ferrell on The 4400.
Linderman wouldn't necessarily need to reverse his healing power in order to take advantage of it. He could simply use the ability to heal those who would benefit him. Imagine him in his younger days blackmailing people who had influence and or money enabling him to gain the power he desired.
I'm really liking the overriding theme of this season comparing the downfall of the last generation of heroes vs. some of the current heroes decisions about doing what they perceive as being right. Along with the power corrupts theme I think the quote "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions" sums up the overall theme of this season.
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Could be you're right about Peter's amnesia. It could be as simple as a backlash of the release of that much energy when he exploded above NYC, but somehow I am thinking it is not that simple. Where did he fall after the explosion? How badly was he injured from the fall? Could that be what caused the amnesia? For that matter what is with the horribly burned Nathan we keep seeing? Did that happen after the explosion? How did he get healed if so?
I don't think it likely that Peter thinking Nathan dead from flying off with him before the explosion is the cause either. He has a pic of Nathan and seeing it in the box didn't trigger any reaction at all. He simply had no idea who it was.
Could it be some drug was used on him? Perhaps a form of the drug or power used on Sylar to dampen his abilities? Could it be the Company or some other group was looking to put Peter under the glass they way they had done with Sylar? Why else would he be handcuffed inside an ocean container in the port of Cork? And who sent Caitlin's brother's crew to open that container? Was it a mistake or did someone send them to free Peter?
Lots of questions and few answers so far.
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Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
There was also a line in the preview about someone experimenting with the virus. If that is referring to what Maya does it is may possible that she and her brother did not come by their abilities naturally. She could be sent to a location, do her viral thing, then send him in when the job is done to contain the outbreak. Those abilities seem tailor made for use as a biological weapon.
Maybe. I think it is something BC1 and U eluded to in earlier posts. Using it to gain an operative in Jessica. They promised Nikki a "Cure" and thus experimented with the virus and perhaps on others. In the teaser for next week, Jessica was in the background, without her hospital gown on. ...and then we see Suresh about to inject something into "Muscle Mimic"'s arm, which then flashes to Suresh throwing a chair into a fridge full of vials.
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