Subtle yet interesting show observations -- post yours

POSTED BY: AnimalM0ther
UPDATED: Friday, December 7, 2007 19:19
VIEWED: 122045
PAGE 4 of 4

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Originally posted by Bagheera:

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Originally posted by asarian:


Seems River played Badger. From minute one.

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I didnt think that was subtle, so much as obvious.

Perhaps it may have been too subtle for you to pick up on though, but I certainly dont think she was eavesdropping beforehand.

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Sigh. There's just an acre of you fellas, ain't there?


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"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Hum.

One 'subtle' bit about that speech was...

Has River EVER lied ?

In both the "old homestead" and the "I'm not on the ship, I'm in the ship" speeches, she speaks literally, but is misinterpreted by those characters listening.

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I don’t know why I never noticed this before but in “Trash” when Kaylee is explaining their plan on how to sneak out the lassiter (sp?) and Saffron say’s to Kalyee “Oh, except it's idiotic.” it immediately cuts to Jayne mug and his expression that shouts how dare you say that to little Kaylee. I love it because it shows how much Jayne is in solidarity with his peeps.

What we need's a diversion. I say Zoe gets nekkid.

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A thing I notice is that in the BDM when they are passing though Reaver space Jayne is cuddling Vera tightly as if its a comfort to him -- like a small child and a blanky.

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In the episode 'serenity' when Mal is shooting that big gun at the alliance ship in the beggining.. it has this little orange thing on the screen for targeting the ship.. its pretty similar to the menu of the serenity dvd.

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In "Ariel", it is widely believed that River slices Jayne with a knife because she's somehow triggered by his Blue Sun T-shirt. But since Jayne is wearing the same Blue Sun T-shirt all throughout Bushwhacked, and River seems just fine with it, that notion has always bothered me.

... until, yesterday, it finally dawned on me what makes River's trigger accute. 'Bout four seconds earlier, River overhears Wash say:

WASH
So, two days in a hospital, huh?
(Inara nods)
That's awful. DON'T YOU JUST HATE DOCTORS?

That's it! There's a two-second comic interlude ("Don't be excluding people, that's just rude,") after which River comes at Jayne with a kitchen knife.

And, O my, was it even a comic interlude?? Or was River simply doing EXACTLY what Jayne said? Namely, while having an unpleasant flashback, "not excluding" him from being cut on?

Pieces are beginning to fall into place.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Originally posted by Bagheera:

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Originally posted by asarian:


Seems River played Badger. From minute one.

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I didnt think that was subtle, so much as obvious.

Perhaps it may have been too subtle for you to pick up on though, but I certainly dont think she was eavesdropping beforehand. She simply displayed the uncanny intuition she always had (or as wash would put it the "scifi-ish psychic ability")

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*soft smile* Now, that's why it's subtle. :) Cuz the "obvious" thing is to just assume River was being highly intuitive and masterfully adapting to the situation. But, as Inara would say, nothing here is what it seems. Or rather, Joss generally sets things up in such a way that things could easily NOT be what they seem. And he can be called downright skillful, to the Nth degree, as there's no obvious conclusion to gravitate towards. Could be Book was a former Operative; could be he was a former Alliance commander; but whatever he was, Joss always leaves us dangling. Similarly, could be River's just being intuitive; could be she was eavesdropping; could be she's a reader (there's a plethora of evidence for that, too);

In fact, when you watch Firefly over and over, you'll see a gradual build-up of hints pointing to River being a full reader. That build-up is subtle in and by itself, as all throughout Firefly Joss leaves just enough room open for other interpretations. She knows Jayne betrayed them at Ariel; and in Safe she can read Ruby's mind. And in Objects in Space Simon, very subtlely, seems to be less than entirely forthright when he says "She's deeply intuitive." (which the Captain, at that point no longer buys). And she knows eerily much about Early's youth, and the things he has done:

River: "Big golden retriever, sitting on the lawn. Never took to you. Smell on you, the neighbors pets, you did things to 'em... cleaned up after."

But with all these examples, one could still argue something else than reader. She could have guessed about Early's past; or just have picked up on Jayne's hightened sense of nervousness after Ariel (which the entire crew seemed to notice, btw). Etc. Culminating, finally, in "full disclosure" at the end of the BDM, where Mal literally spells it out that River's a full reader:

Mal: "... since you already know what I'm about to say."
River: "I do. But I like to hear you say it."

And even then, it's not entirely clear WHEN River unlocked her full reader potential. Maybe the Miranda stuff blocked it partially; or could be she just grew better and better at it over time. Or could be she could do it all along.

At any rate, I believe that if there's anything really obvious in Firefly, then it is that there's nothing really obvious.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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*soft smile* Now, that's why it's subtle. :) Cuz the "obvious" thing is to just assume River was being highly intuitive and masterfully adapting to the situation.

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Indifference to the facts doesnt make something subtle or masterful... more like... unfinished and wishywashy.

You could also argue that River is actually a male operative posing as River, and that his imitation of the female gender is masterful subtlety on the part of the writers and actors... but thats a load of bunk too.

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Or rather, Joss generally sets things up in such a way that things could easily NOT be what they seem. And he can be called downright skillful, to the Nth degree, as there's no obvious conclusion to gravitate towards.

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I understand that brownnosing the creators is a high-competition sport on any fanboard... but I believe you again misinterpret Indifference as Skill.

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Could be Book was a former Operative; could be he was a former Alliance commander; but whatever he was, Joss always leaves us dangling.

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So, if the series hadnt been cancelled, and he'd been given time to write more pulp fiction, he would have been in effect less skillful ?

It takes more skill to do something right, then it does to not do it at all.

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Similarly, could be River's just being intuitive; could be she was eavesdropping; could be she's a reader (there's a plethora of evidence for that, too)

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Evidence ? lol. Could be she's a reaver for all your logic there.

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In fact, when you watch Firefly over and over, you'll see a gradual build-up of hints pointing to River being a full reader.

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I have. and I have also noticed that in Safe, she SPECIFICALLY and OPENLY states things that she could not have known any other way. Do you really think the headman in Safe spilled the beans on murder to River on a drunken bender or something ?

and that aint no "last episode in the series" that was the fourth to air... so your whole theory about subtle and slow introduction of the theory is bunk too.

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That build-up is subtle in and by itself, as all throughout Firefly Joss leaves just enough room open for other interpretations.

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I got a friend that refuses to acknowledge any difference between colors or directions, blaming it on colorblindness and direction blindness... does this make north the same as south, or red the same as green ? No. They are still different, even if you are willfully blind.

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She knows Jayne betrayed them at Ariel; and in Safe she can read Ruby's mind.

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Very odd, I thought you had just argued that she WASNT a reader... very subtle of you to be arguing both sides of something so that you can retreat to whichever you deign to be safest.

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And in Objects in Space Simon, very subtlely, seems to be less than entirely forthright when he says "She's deeply intuitive."

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again... not subtle. Simon has already shown and told the crew that he will lie, cheat, steal, whatever to protect River.

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And she knows eerily much about Early's youth, and the things he has done:

River: "Big golden retriever, sitting on the lawn. Never took to you. Smell on you, the neighbors pets, you did things to 'em... cleaned up after."

But with all these examples, one could still argue something else than reader. She could have guessed about Early's past;

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thats not really subtle... but when he says "You're in my ship" subtlety might lead you to relate his ship with Serenity, and relate all that Serenity is to her crew... as being what his ship is to Early... and all that she had been railing about being Serenity and such...

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or just have picked up on Jayne's hightened sense of nervousness after Ariel

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umm... she says something to the effect of "He's afraid we'll know he turned us in at Ariel"... so how the hell is that subtle ?

Subtlety lays more in the realm of "Did River deliberately instigate and encourage Jayne to turn on Simon and River, so that he would be able to move past his insecuri

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Originally posted by Bagheera:

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*soft smile* Now, that's why it's subtle. :) Cuz the "obvious" thing is to just assume River was being highly intuitive and masterfully adapting to the situation.

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Indifference to the facts doesnt make something subtle or masterful... more like... unfinished and wishywashy.

You could also argue that River is actually a male operative posing as River, and that his imitation of the female gender is masterful subtlety on the part of the writers and actors... but thats a load of bunk too.

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Gotta say, Bagheera, your talent for alienating folks is near miraculous.

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Or rather, Joss generally sets things up in such a way that things could easily NOT be what they seem. And he can be called downright skillful, to the Nth degree, as there's no obvious conclusion to gravitate towards.

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I understand that brownnosing the creators is a high-competition sport on any fanboard... but I believe you again misinterpret Indifference as Skill.

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Why, I sure hope he'd display enough indifference towards your imputed indifference. :)

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Could be Book was a former Operative; could be he was a former Alliance commander; but whatever he was, Joss always leaves us dangling.

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Similarly, could be River's just being intuitive; could be she was eavesdropping; could be she's a reader (there's a plethora of evidence for that, too)

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Evidence? lol. Could be she's a reaver for all your logic there.

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In fact, when you watch Firefly over and over, you'll see a gradual build-up of hints pointing to River being a full reader.

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I have.

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Only one installment ago you didn't even know who Harken was. So, you might wanna look to replenishing your knowledge of The Material.

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... and I have also noticed that in Safe, she SPECIFICALLY and OPENLY states things that she could not have known any other way. Do you really think the headman in Safe spilled the beans on murder to River on a drunken bender or something?

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Dude. You just said: "Evidence? lol.". And now you're bashing me cuz there's too much evidence? LOL. Please, kindly decide which position you take; then argue for or against. But don't change your position mid-post, or you'll wind up trashing yourself -- which is all manner of fun to watch, but it tends to muck things up.

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and that aint no "last episode in the series" that was the fourth to air... so your whole theory about subtle and slow introduction of the theory is bunk too.

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But wait; this whole tirade of yours starting with you blasting me cuz I was allegedly too daft to see the "obvious", namely that River was just being intuitive when playing Badger. I guess the "obvious" has a way of not being so obvious after all, don't it?

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She knows Jayne betrayed them at Ariel; and in Safe she can read Ruby's mind.

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Very odd, I thought you had just argued that she WASNT a reader...

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Which part of "could be she's a reader (there's a plethora of evidence for that, too)" was confusing for you?

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or just have picked up on Jayne's hightened sense of nervousness after Ariel

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umm... she says something to the effect of "He's afraid we'll know he turned us in at Ariel"... so how the hell is that subtle?

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As you might say: "She simply displayed the uncanny intuition she always had." Oops. :)

I'll give you "obvious". But YOU then please make up your mind between "obviously she's just uncannily intutitive" and "obviously she's a reader". You can't have your cookie and beat it.

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Subtlety lays more in the realm of "Did River deliberately instigate and encourage Jayne to turn on Simon and River, so that he would be able to move past his insecurities and become one with the crew?"

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No, that's just you grasping for straws you long since ran out of.

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Or could be she could do it all along.

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considering that the entire premise behind the

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River mouths the words, "The people here stopped fighting" along with the Alliance doctor, kinda hinting that this was the big secret she knew - because you can obviously not read the mind of a hologram, so she couldn't know what she was about to say like when she mouthed words alongside Mal earlier in the movie.

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But with all these examples, one could still argue something else than reader. She could have guessed about Early's past; or just have picked up on Jayne's hightened sense of nervousness after Ariel (which the entire crew seemed to notice, btw). Etc. Culminating, finally, in "full disclosure" at the end of the BDM, where Mal literally spells it out that River's a full reader:

Mal: "... since you already know what I'm about to say."
River: "I do. But I like to hear you say it."

And even then, it's not entirely clear WHEN River unlocked her full reader potential. Maybe the Miranda stuff blocked it partially; or could be she just grew better and better at it over time. Or could be she could do it all along.

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One thing I haven’t seen anyone mention thus far, is prescience. Psychometry, telepathy and others have been mentioned, but in OoG, I believe she mentions “fire” twice, each time, Simon thinking she’s talking about the candles on his cake, before the explosion occurs.

In this, there were no minds to read, no objects to read. It really could only have been a “foretelling”. Also with finding the back route out of the hospital in Ariel. Though, arguably, she could have plucked it from a random mind, her control over telepathy seems quite limited when there are more than one or two minds about to be dealt with.

Limited prescience, to my mind is of much more use to an “Assassin”, than strict telepathy since such could be quite muddled in the midst of many minds, especially in the case of the battle with the Reavers. However, having a limited prescience would allow one to foresee actions and react ahead of schedule, as-it-were. Always allowing one to be a “step ahead” when clear and focused.

This isn’t to say that she isn’t also a telepath and/or psychometrist. However, I don’t really see any chance for either of these to have given her foresight of the “fire” in OoG.

Having recently re-read the Dune series, this calls all sorts of possibilities to mind as well. First of all, in the case of the Government/Corporate interest, there would be much more interest in someone with prescience, then there would be in someone with simple telepathy.

In addition, the potential for storyline is immense and I could envision a future where River, having gained some control of her mind and abilities, suddenly becomes certain of a given future potential and comes up against Mal’s innate freedom and choice sense; one who would assuredly balk at the idea of a given destiny.
For myself, in the “subtlety” angle, I think to when River woke up in the hospital on Ariel with the “Copper for a kiss,” remark and the sudden confusion on her face as she assessed Jayne. Quite quick the play of emotions, to me and it seemed that in one moment, she reacted to his reaction, then in the next, sensed something else going on with Jayne and realized what it was.

I likewise think that the “sudden brain activity” that was missed by Simon, and her subsequent scream was in prescient response to the Blue Hands’ imminent arrival.

Just my take on it all of course.

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Did anybody else notice that Saffron is like.... super fine?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Originally posted by KevinGrey:

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River mouths the words, "The people here stopped fighting" along with the Alliance doctor, kinda hinting that this was the big secret she knew - because you can obviously not read the mind of a hologram, so she couldn't know what she was about to say like when she mouthed words alongside Mal earlier in the movie.

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But with all these examples, one could still argue something else than reader. She could have guessed about Early's past; or just have picked up on Jayne's hightened sense of nervousness after Ariel (which the entire crew seemed to notice, btw). Etc. Culminating, finally, in "full disclosure" at the end of the BDM, where Mal literally spells it out that River's a full reader:

Mal: "... since you already know what I'm about to say."
River: "I do. But I like to hear you say it."

And even then, it's not entirely clear WHEN River unlocked her full reader potential. Maybe the Miranda stuff blocked it partially; or could be she just grew better and better at it over time. Or could be she could do it all along.

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One thing I haven’t seen anyone mention thus far, is prescience. Psychometry, telepathy and others have been mentioned, but in OoG, I believe she mentions “fire” twice, each time, Simon thinking she’s talking about the candles on his cake, before the explosion occurs.

In this, there were no minds to read, no objects to read. It really could only have been a “foretelling”. Also with finding the back route out of the hospital in Ariel. Though, arguably, she could have plucked it from a random mind, her control over telepathy seems quite limited when there are more than one or two minds about to be dealt with.

Limited prescience, to my mind is of much more use to an “Assassin”, than strict telepathy since such could be quite muddled in the midst of many minds, especially in the case of the battle with the Reavers. However, having a limited prescience would allow one to foresee actions and react ahead of schedule, as-it-were. Always allowing one to be a “step ahead” when clear and focused.

This isn’t to say that she isn’t also a telepath and/or psychometrist. However, I don’t really see any chance for either of these to have given her foresight of the “fire” in OoG.

Having recently re-read the Dune series, this calls all sorts of possibilities to mind as well. First of all, in the case of the Government/Corporate interest, there would be much more interest in someone with prescience, then there would be in someone with simple telepathy.

In addition, the potential for storyline is immense and I could envision a future where River, having gained some control of her mind and abilities, suddenly becomes certain of a given future potential and comes up against Mal’s innate freedom and choice sense; one who would assuredly balk at the idea of a given destiny.
For myself, in the “subtlety” angle, I think to when River woke up in the hospital on Ariel with the “Copper for a kiss,” remark and the sudden confusion on her face as she assessed Jayne. Quite quick the play of emotions, to me and it seemed that in one moment, she reacted to his reaction, then in the next, sensed something else going on with Jayne and realized what it was.

I likewise think that the “sudden brain activity” that was missed by Simon, and her subsequent scream was in prescient response to the Blue Hands’ imminent arrival.

Just my take on it all of course.

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KevinGrey,

I'm a believer in the same theory that Asarian has posited on this subject... but I have to say you brought up something I've barely touched on in conversations and articulated it so very well. I think you're absolutely right. River is prescient.. perhaps in a limited fashion and perhaps Joss meant that ability to flourish as time went by.

As a Dune lover.... I "get" how much she's like an Honored Matre ( did I spell that right? I don't have Chaperhouse: Dune yet )... wild, full of powers too awesome to imagine and a crazy ability to perhaps know the future thrown i

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Did anybody else notice that Saffron is like.... super fine?

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(Special) Hell, yeah! She's all kinds of pleasing! :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Originally posted by Avatar37:
"In the very last scene with Inara, when she tells Mal she doesn't know if she wants to leave, she has absolutely no makeup on. I have to go back through the shows, but I think that is the first time she has ever been on with no makeup. It was like she was giving up being a Companion. Again, I have to double check, and if I am wrong, please let me know."

I don't think she was giving up being a companion so much as finally feeling comfortable enough around Mal and Serenity as to finally start treating it like her home. Previously, she always made a point that the shuttle was her home. I think, in her own way, it was her way of showing Mal that she loves him.

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Uh, can I point out that about 3 minutes prior to this scene, she's up on the side of Serenity, repainting her badge... I think it might have something to do with her focusing on making Serenity beautiful again, applying Serenity's makeup, if you will... the focus is off Inara and Inara's identify being wrapped up in being a companion, and it has turned to Inara being identified as part of Serenity.

I think.
:o)

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Out of Gas: when Zoe asks Mal what the thing on the cargo hold floor was and Mal says it must have been something living there, Zoe is actually standing right over the place where the wounded Mal lying is in the present-day storyline.

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It's as it should be, as sound doesn't travel in space -- or so I've heard.

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YES! That made me very happy to see that. It's the frist sci-fi show that i've seen or not heard that. (ha. i crack myself up).

I like seeing all the ads for things when the crew is planet side. Seeing all the Blue Sun stuff in the background. Oh and in Serenity...when they're in the bar. The news reel that's playing is about the Reaver attack and the robbery (well, more like the people surviving in the vault). I just picked up on this when i watched it last. Sweet!

"When you can't run, you crawl. When you can't crawl, when you can't do that...You find someone to carry you."

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Originally posted by Cruithne3753:

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Originally posted by Nytegaunt:
From "The Message" when we learn that Jayne has a sick brother named Matty .... brothers who both share feminine sounding names.

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*Ahem* That would be an endearment of Matthew... which just happens to be my name.

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Yeah, I don't think there's anything feminine meant by it. But that letter did get me thinking. I know Jayne's all about Jayne. But why is he so into money. So much to betray the crew. or at least Simon and River. I was thinking maybe part of Jayne is so into money,
1. for himself, cause, hey, buying food, and his many weapons adds up.
or
2. He's close to his family. For such a bad ass, he was very fond of his hat from his mother. As I recall, he wore it the entire episode. So yeah, got to thinking. Maybe he's so into money because he wants to help his family. In the letter, it was said that he forwarded some credits. Maybe he's paying for his brother Matty's treatment. Adam Baldwin said that he always wanted to met Jayne's parents. Joss could have done something cool with that. See a softer side of Jayne.

Just a thought.

"When you can't run, you crawl. When you can't crawl, when you can't do that...You find someone to carry you."

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-_- i hate it when my computer fails at posting things.

"When you can't run, you crawl. When you can't crawl, when you can't do that...You find someone to carry you."

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This one's from the BDM:

Did anyone else notice that the Operative only calls Mal "Mal" after he stabs him during the big fight at the end? It's weird!

Before, he only called him "Captain" or "Malcolm", very formal, very proper. But they're fighting, there's the stab...and a look of almost regret passes over the Operative's face, and he murmurs, "Do you know what your sin is...Mal?"

It's almost like only then does he respect the man enough to use the more familiar term. To be almost friendly, in a way.

It's like now, he knows Mal well enough to acknowledge it.

Very subtle, but a very nice touch.

Heh, there's also the benefit that I had to watch the movie all over again just to be sure I hadn't just imagined it. Woo-hoo!


{/quote]
Sorry to bust that one up, but he actually calls him 'Mal' when he is talking to him on the wave to Serenity after he's put fire to Haven...

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Originally posted by Xeyra:

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Originally posted by pingjing:

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Originally posted by Volk564:
...three (most likely one): River wasn't screaming about the fact that Jayne said "we gotta book," but that she knows where they're going to Book too - namely, a trap, or four: none of the above, and I'm just crazy.
Just a thought.

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I think it's the third option. The brain screen goes kind of crazy right before she starts screaming, which I think might indicate that it is recording her psychic powers. But, if I recall correctly, Simon isn't looking at the screen at that moment, he's looking at Jayne. (Haven't watched it in awhile, so I could be wrong). So he misses the whole thing. Of course, according to the escape in the BDM, I guess he already knows.

Hope that means you aren't crazy ;)

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It is my understanding that when Jayne says they have to go (does he say they gotta book? Didn't notice that), that's when the image of River's brain starts acting up, showing all the areas of her brain that are reacting to her psychic understanding of Jayne's betrayal, reason why she then screams. And Simon is looking at Jayne, yes, so he does miss it. It is a really interesting scene because Ariel is one of those episodes where River's psychic abilities become startling real to the viewer...

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He actually says 'we gotta do this by the book' which is, incidentally a whopping lie... which may be why River reacted...

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Originally posted by asarian:

Shindig.

I've always wondered how long River's been listening in on Badger and henchmen before she wandered in, allegedly all confused. And this because River says: "Now you're what, petty thief with delusions of standing?"

What standing? Or rather, what standing that River knows of? It can really only refer to her having overheard Badger say: "Persephone's my home. I gotta do business with the people here. I don't want it known I brought someone in caused this kinda ruckus." But that convo took place several minutes ago. Which means River has been eavesdropping for quite a bit, all the way through the crew discussing strategy, and up and until Jayne's "We need a diversion." Then River happens to wander in, and provides one (the idea of the possibility of Jayne getting nekkid was probably too much for her to stomach, lol).

Seems River played Badger. From minute one.

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Someone posted a while ago about Badger cutting up his apple like Mal and Zoe do...
Interestingly enough, River makes the comment in her little cockney homily that 'she's known plenty like him before... skipped off a little early...'
From what? ...ahuh! River knows he was a deserter... but from which side? Was he, per-maybe-haps one of the Alliance fighters who used the old apple trick...? Or one of the receivers of said nastiness (clearly not ACTUAL receiver, otherwise he'd be ended at the ribcage!)?

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Originally posted by KevinGrey:

One thing I haven’t seen anyone mention thus far, is prescience. Psychometry, telepathy and others have been mentioned, but in OoG, I believe she mentions “fire” twice, each time, Simon thinking she’s talking about the candles on his cake, before the explosion occurs.

In this, there were no minds to read, no objects to read. It really could only have been a “foretelling”.

---

KevinGrey,

I'm definitely with you on the prescience (or precognition, as I generally call it; though I suppose the former is a subset of the latter; but I digress). Your OoG example is as good as irrefutable: no way she could have knowed about the fire unless she foreknew (one could argue that perhaps, sub-consciously, she picked up on a weird vibe of the engine or some such; but that still don't explain her ability to foresee the upcoming fire).

There's a similar moment in Ariel:

RIVER
(to Simon)
You have to help him.

SIMON
River, we don't have time to...

RIVER
(loud)
He's killing him!

Now, River, smart as she is, ain't no Doctor. Even if she knew what the young Intern was going to administer, she doesn't know Alprazaline, combined with droxine, is going to kill the man. And she really couldn't have read the Intern's mind about it either, as the poor lad was himself oblivious to the fact that this combination is lethal!

Your subtle observations also bring me to OiS. River walks up to a laughing Simon and Kaylee, then hears Simon say: "I would be there right now." It is generally believed she's reading Simon's (subconscious) mind at the time. And this is very well possible. But Simon also just happens to repeat that exact same line later in the episode, as he's standing in the hallway, with Kaylee:

SIMON
I'm... I thought the hospital was
home. I was really making a
difference there... and
embarrassingly large stacks of money,
and I could've... I WOULD BE THERE
RIGHT NOW if she hadn't...

Granted, that's not as strong; but with all the prescience going on, who knows.

Just my two coppers. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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In The Train Job, when River was having her flashbacks, leaps off the bed, and, still disoriented, starts to walk about sick bay. She can be seen to walk under one of the ship's surgical lamps, and is immediately triggered again, it seems, as she frantically covers her face for that exact moment. Never noticed that before.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Originally posted by Misstressahara:
Well, since I haven't seen it mentioned by anyone else, and it came to be a topic of conversation a few years earlier I can proudly be the one to bring it up.

In the movie when Mal is in his room looking at the video of Inarah (this is lead from the line Kaylee makes about pushing Inarah away) they pan out to show him sitting watching the vid, (you must look close, it goes by quick) what do we see in front of him? Can you see? Can you see? Hup, that's right kiddies, it's his toilet, his john, his thrown, seat down. I didn't see it until the second viewing, but when I did I
re-wround and paused and sure enough, there it is. Joss did it, he got the FIRST toilet in space. Good on ya Joss.

There are more from the tv, but I won't mention them for now. I love these threads.

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting.

---

I saw that one as well; I just wasn't paying attention, 'cause I've no attention span. but, heh, not the FIRST, 'cause there was one in the series. It just folded up.

/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\
May not be smart, and it may not please you, but you're definitely gonna see what I have to say.

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Actually, Kubrick had the first toilet in space, in 2001: A Space Odyssey.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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Great thinking and thank you for adding it.

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My pleasure, FollowMal. I’m glad you found something of value in it.

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I'm definitely with you on the prescience (or precognition, as I generally call it; though I suppose the former is a subset of the latter; but I digress).

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Asarian:

I would agree, either could apply.

Although, precognition, for me, is the action itself. Prescience is more applied to the presence of the ability or action, as I understand it. One can say: “I am precognitive,” though, generally that is applied to dreams, or other abilities, rather than to an individual.

Although they busted this all to hell in Minority Report. :P

I think some of the confusion on this stems from associations with “Clairvoyance” (Prescience) and “Clairvoyant” as adjective or noun, depending on usage. She is clairvoyant or she is a clairvoyant are both considered correct.

No stress about it though. Even dictionaries disagree in this and I think they don’t establish a rule, simply because most people don’t even accept such as likely.

Generally, the rule I follow for myself is:

The individual would be prescient, who has, or engages in, precognition or precognitive phenomena. Prescience, is the presence of precognitive abilities, or precognition as a functioning ability.

If someone where to say:

He is precognitive.

Then they would actually be saying that he is here, without cognitive functioning as explanation for his presence.

Which, can be applicable, under certain circumstances.

And it’s nicer than just saying “He has his head up his ass.”

So, the next time you wish to impart a shot that may not be heard before it hits, just tell them they are “precognitive”.

Just make sure they haven’t read this post, first.

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Originally posted by darthvider:
In "Trash", when Jayne and Kaylee are climbing on top of the ship to reprogram the garbage bin, you see Jayne trying to put the line card (or whatever it is) back in the slot. This is before he gets shocked and knocked out.

Anybody ever notice what's on the screen beside him? It's VERY noticable if you know what you're looking at. It's a Windows 2000 desktop. You can very clearly see the Start button, the Task bar (with programs running), the default icons on the left-hand side, even the bloody task tray. The biggest thing that caught my attention was the giant InstallShield window right in the middle of the screen, taking up three-quarters of it. It's clear enough that you can almost read "Next" and "Cancel" on the buttons.

Please don't tell me Microsoft is alive and well 500 years in the future!

---

You also can see the Windoze screen saver around that part too. The one with the logo going to different parts of the screen. Serious lawls.

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This is more of a continuity error but in 'Jaynestown' right before the party sees the statue there is a behind the back shot of them walking and right on Kaylees booty there there are a bunch oil handprints (her wiping her hands off) but one of those handprints has a thumb on the wrong side *wink wink nudge nudge*

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there were explosions in the BDM - like when mal shoots the mini reaver ship blowing it up

play with the best die like the rest

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you are an idiot

check the pilot episode for serenity - mal pushes the toilet away and zips up when wash calls him on the coms to tell him theres a mole on board

loser


play with the bestdie like the rest

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I really love this thread. I had read up there somewhere someone saying that Jayne wears his hat that he got in "The Message" in the BDM when leaving the ship for the Maidenhead. He is throwing up a hood that is around his neck, I believe. It's shown here in the Propstore of London pics.



And on another note: a few friends and I have discussed the "popcorn ball" artwork in the common area in the series. It's best seen at the beginning of "Safe" during Simon and River's argument.

-----
~mia
"I'll never cease to fly if held down."

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Mal's scars in the BDM!
Did you all notice that Mal has all the appropriate scars from the series knife/sword/gunshot wounds!
You can see them in the scene where he gets up to answer Inara's 'wave'.
He has the right shoulder/upper chest scar from Crowe's thrown blade.
He has the right side scar from Atherton's tricksy sword play.
AND...
He has the left shoulder/upper arm scar from Patient's gun shot graze.
That is just priceless that they would remember all of those!
I just watched 'Done The Impossible' and 'Serenity'. Yep, I'm addicted!



"You wanna run this ship?"
"Yes"
"Well,...you can't"

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Oh, I also noticed that they missed a scene in Serenity where they were supposed to superimpose Inara's 'dart/crossbow/thingy' over the regular bow and arrow she was really carrying. If you watch closely, you can see her clearly holding a bow with an arrow pointing towards the door. It happens shortly before the fighting starts.


"You wanna run this ship?"
"Yes"
"Well,...you can't"

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As an Atheist, I really enjoy the digs Joss and his writers take at religion (some more subtle than others).

My favorite was Simon's line in "War Stories", after Book's invoked the writings of Shan Yu: "Sadistic crap legitimized by florid prose. ... Tell me you're not a fan."

In talking with other less-than-religious Browncoats, I'm apparently the only one who saw it as a direct swipe at the Bible.

________________________

"Spry for a dead fella!"

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I watched "Our Mrs. Reynolds" last night in high def (on UHD channel). I noticed two things I hadn't caught before.

During the celebration at the start, just after Jayne gets his rain stick, we see a quick shot of Book. He's giving the last rites to the bodies of the four banditos that our BDHs have just filled with lead.

At the end, as Mal and Jayne discuss how to attack the chop shop net, Jayne asks if he should shoot at the control room. Mal says no, and tells him to shoot one of the "breakers" instead. Which Jayne does... but then he puts three rounds into the control room window, delivering a coup de grace to the bad guys. Jayne follows orders... in his own special way.

(Of course I'd seen Jayne shoot the window before. What I hadn't noticed is that he did so against Mal's orders, sort of.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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Originally posted by NateM:
I also really liked the recurring theme of being lost in the woods. A couple characters say that a bunch of times through the series and I thought it linked them all together.

---

Aha!

When River says this to Simon (in 'Safe', I think), She says it with exactly the same intonation as Inara says it to Simon in 'Serenity'.

She does this sort of thing a few times.

As for subtle - check out the eyes. Some of the reaction shots are the finest I have ever seen. Mal's look of multiple incomprehension at Saffron at the beginning of 'Our Mrs Reynolds' being a standout example.

Gorram it, I love this show.

'I banged my head is all'

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Now, River, smart as she is, ain't no Doctor. Even if she knew what the young Intern was going to administer, she doesn't know Alprazaline, combined with droxine, is going to kill the man. And she really couldn't have read the Intern's mind about it either, as the poor lad was himself oblivious to the fact that this combination is lethal!

---

Couldn't she just have read the dying mans mind, if she can sense thoughts she must also then be able to sense the absence of thoughts. But then again does an aenesthesized patient have thoughts? Maybe he still has a "presence".

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I love the dinasaurs on the dash board in front of Mal at the very end of Serenity. A great tribute to Wash.

Now lots of little things about Inara and Mal:

I can see how some people are calling Inara an ice queen but it's exactly this detachment from truely intimate relationships that gives her something in common with Mal and the perfect reason for him to come to her shuttle for timeout. Both of their professions require detachment--Mal couldn't confide in the others whom he had to lead and he knew that she couldn't become romantically attached to him because of her profession. The closer they get, the more they fight--I mean really did Mal have to call her a whore when she was showing him to hold the sword? at that moment he was totally avoiding eye contact as if he knew he was out of line but uncomfortable getting close to her, then also he could have kissed her at the end of Mrs. Reynolds when she admits she didn't trip but he choses to pretend he thinks she kissed Saffron, As we are reminded in Ariel, he's smart enough to figure out the real chain of events So Mal was as icy if not icier than Inara

In Shindig, when Kaylee is pointing out all the fine dresses, he seems really uncomfortable; maybe by the fact that he wouldn't be able to provide all the nice fine things that Inara has. (remember how desperate they were for a job) Maybe thinking he can't offer Inara the kind of life she really wants

Notice how Inara liked to choose virgins most of the time? It seemed to me she always had a warm, gentle and genuinely giving character but she was only giving to others and not receiving. You can see she is somewhat unsatisfied with her profession from the beginning of the series. She never expected herself to feel so hollow from not receiving true love herself.

Inara once told Book that she loved Serenity from the first moment she saw it but I think she's talking about her love for the captain, especially after seeing them talk after the sword fight and she looks him in the eye and says "why would I want to leave serenity" Serenity is what it is because of Mal's love of freedom and sense of what's right, making it a home. Loving what Serenity stands for is loving Mal's whole character

At that point, Mal could have swept Inara off her feet if he had just taken charge of the situation like he does in everything else. But the mix of his respect for women and insecurities about himself just don't get him the point of telling her not to leave. Like he tells Saffron in Mrs. Reynolds "I would make a terrible husband."

Inara's training as a companion made her more than just a great sex partner, ironically it makes her the perfect wife (I can't help thinking of Mal's coming to her shuttle is like Honey, I'm home from a hard day of shootin, give me something to think about besides work)

She's smart, caring, volunteering to watch River and not really a leader type like Mal but it's like she's the ying for Mal's yang

I want to see more!!

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A couple that I caught, having watched the series about 1 1/2 times in the past week:

In the pilot episode "Serenity", in one of the shots of Inara's shuttle flying across Persephone, one of the distant background ships traveling from screen lower left to upper left bears a very strong resemblance to a Klingon Bird-of-Prey.

In the teaser for "Our Mrs. Reynolds", immediately after Jayne and Mal draw their guns, there's a close-up shot of Jayne's revolver, with Jayne's face in the background. Take a close look at the revolver, and count the visible chambers. Jayne's gun holds significantly more than six bullets! It's at least an eight-shooter; possibly as much as ten.

"Half of writing history is hiding the truth."

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Three things I noticed in the Big Damn Movie:

Serenity's engines are designed to not only rotate for VTOL and slow flight, but they're also articulated in a manner that allows them to fold up closer to the fuselage after landing. That articulation is controlled and supported by large hydraulic actuators underneath the pylons. In the series DVD extras, it's mentioned that the CGI animators often had to "cheat" on those actuators' exact location, since they couldn't stay rigidly attached while the engines rotate.
In the BDM, however, the actuators were redesigned. They are no longer permanently attached to the engines; instead each actuator extends from the fuselage but ends in a coupling, a few feet short of the engine.
(What's the purpose of articulating the engines like that, if they're not going to be used as flight controls, I wonder?)

Perhaps not quite as subtle, but I was pleased to notice... you can see part of the code hidden in the "fruity oaty bar" commercial for a few frames. It's very briefly superimposed over the octopus.

During the Reaver vs. Alliance battle, there's a very quick couple of shots in which a wall panel in Serenity's engine room catches fire, and Kaylee sprays it with a fire extinguisher. That brief image - blink and you'll miss it - is very reminiscent of the Millennium Falcon catching fire and R2D2 extinguishing it. (It's very frustrating that I'm not sure which movie that was in.) Remember Whedon's half-joking comment that everything reminds him of the Millennium Falcon? Me too! :)

"Half of writing history is hiding the truth."

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Originally posted by KayleeLove:

Inara and Mal ~~~ Both of their professions require detachment--

---

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN.

When I read that sentence I was immediately reminded of River's chat with Early, (I forget the exact wording() but she essentially says that he chose the job because of who he was, and it wasnt the job that made him that way.

I hadnt realized how directly this applied to Mal and Inara (and possibly the others in the crew ?)

Inara and Mal chose their jobs, and to be where they were, because of their own problems and used the job as an excuse after that fact.... same as Early.

Very cool.

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What comes off as just a "typical" scene in BDM takes on a new meaning when you consider it with Jayne's character - when Mal warns everybody to strap in, Jayne runs to where River, Inara and the others are strapping in...and rather than thinking of himself first, he takes the extra ten seconds to instead check *their* belts are safely fastened.

That scene is probably my favourite "Aww, Jayne's not just a lecherous hump" scene

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Originally posted by Nandifan:
I had no so much an observation, but a question about an observation.

Does Jayne ever recite Chinese verses? I know he curses in Chinese, but has he ever uttered one of the complex phrases JW assigns everyone else?

Please correct if I am wrong, 'cause its sort of driving me crazy trying to remember!

---

OOG, when Kaylee's telling the story about River at Niska's skyplex, Jayne begins speaking in Chinese - not clearly cursing either, just a "No way, that sounds unbelievable" kinda way.

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What comes off as just a "typical" scene in BDM takes on a new meaning when you consider it with Jayne's character - when Mal warns everybody to strap in, Jayne runs to where River, Inara and the others are strapping in...and rather than thinking of himself first, he takes the extra ten seconds to instead check *their* belts are safely fastened.

That scene is probably my favourite "Aww, Jayne's not just a lecherous hump" scene

---

I actually saw that as following orders.

If I remember correctly Mal says "Everybody strap in. Jayne..."

He knows what is to be done. Maybe I am wrong.

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DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN.

When I read that sentence I was immediately reminded of River's chat with Early, (I forget the exact wording() but she essentially says that he chose the job because of who he was, and it wasnt the job that made him that way.

I hadnt realized how directly this applied to Mal and Inara (and possibly the others in the crew ?)

Inara and Mal chose their jobs, and to be where they were, because of their own problems and used the job as an excuse after that fact.... same as Early.

Very cool.

---

Inara started training at the age of 12. Mal went into "hiding" after losing a big war.

I doubt either "chose" their paths. But both accept the cards they have been dealt. Maybe even like them and don't want to change?

But I would not say they chose.

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Originally posted by nbz:

Inara started training at the age of 12. Mal went into "hiding" after losing a big war.

I doubt either "chose" their paths. But both accept the cards they have been dealt. Maybe even like them and don't want to change?

But I would not say they chose.

---

Training may have started at twelve, but the actual Companin techniques are taught after the women graduate the academy, when they are of age and choose to go this route.

It's in the Serenity RPG Guide or some such. It's most definitely a real choice for Inara.


As for Mal.. I'd say it's a choice in so far as that he could theoretically have chosen to get a regular Alliance job in a factory somewhere. He didn't because it goes against everything he believes in, so it's both a choice and not.

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It is not a choice if it's the only thing you know.

Technically she did have a choice. She could have not gone ahead when the time came.

Practically? Not as much.

Same with Mal as you said. he could have got a job with the alliance. But it would have been very unlikely. Apparently the independent survivors from Serenity Valley were sort of notorious.

He could possibly have worked on a ranch for someone else.

Apart from that, browncoats would have been hard pressed for work, especially if public feeling turned against them. which it may not have. but on alliance supporting worlds and neutral ones who suffered there may have been a backlash. None of this is supported by anything ofcourse.

(I *want* to write a story. got some plot together, ideas for a backstory, circumstances etc which I buy... but alas, I cannot write too good. let's just say I see things differently than most people )

Back to topic, they technically had a choice. practically less so.

Mal could have probably gone a few different routes, but Inara? less likely.

PS this has got nothing to do with the Guild being good or evil or a business. It is more about schooling and expectations. She could have rebelled, but she did not.

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Originally posted by nbz:
It is not a choice if it's the only thing you know.

Technically she did have a choice. She could have not gone ahead when the time came.

Practically? Not as much.

---

... Why not?

I'm confused why you assume that someone with as thorough an education as a Companion training house can offer - even without all the sexual and psychological manipulation - couldn't find other avenues of employment.

You're presuming a lot of psychological pressure to say that Inara knew of nothing else, and there is no evidence for that.

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PS this has got nothing to do with the Guild being good or evil or a business. It is more about schooling and expectations. She could have rebelled, but she did not.

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Again, you assume a strong pressure to go this route, when you say "rebel". Who is pressuring her? The Guild probably asks for tuition fees, and parental or teacher-based pressure is entirely hypothetical. There's absolutely zero evidence that Inara was under any kind of pressure to choose the actual, practical Companion training after graduating the more neutral part.

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Originally posted by nbz:

(I *want* to write a story. got some plot together, ideas for a backstory, circumstances etc which I buy... but alas, I cannot write too good. let's just say I see things differently than most people )

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Perhaps you could find someone to collaborate with you? You obviously put a lot of thought into all of your scenarios. I'm sure lots of people would enjoy a complex plot in a story!

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Who is pressuring her?

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Her Parents?(I am assuming she is not an orphan and that they would have had to sign off on the basic training when she was aged 12...which is total hyperbole. I really know nothing.)

Or it could just be expectation. Everyone just expected her to become a Companion. a great pride for those who know her.

Maybe she did not even consider anything else.

Just like Simon was meant to be a doctor from a pretty young age. It does not even have to look like pressure, but ambitious parents pushing for the best. Why would they want their children settle for second best?

I doubt the Guild would pressure people into joining. I am certain that is NOT a reputation they would like to have.

When you are ttrained for something from a very young age, it does limit choice, even if you have qualifications that mean you can choose a different path.

Ofcourse she could find another field of employment (I do not hold by the opinion that she would never leave), but why would she?

She likes her job (I guess. Just need to consider the camera play in the pilot episode as not disliking the job, but maybe boredom with the client?). She gets paid quite alot, is relatively respectd and has her freedom.

She is in a pretty comfortable spot with a vocation she is not at odds with. It can be hard moving from a comfort zone.

I am getting pretty good at conjecture and hyperbole.

With writing, can't ask for help til I have everything outlined.

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Well, Nandi describes Inara as focused, ambitious. That doesn't suggest outside pressure but rather actual free will.

And you yourself say that she might never have considered anything else, which is very very different from not having had a choice.

No choice, literally, means no choice. Or a choice between highly unequal alternatives, which isn't the case.

Inara's a strong woman. If she hadn't wanted to be a Companion, she would not have chosen it, even at age 18. A push-over wouldn't make for a good house priestess and emotionally attuned people like Companions should know that.

Even staying with something out of laziness or lack of drive is very much a choice, and I think we can both agree that that's not Inara's problem.

The camera play in the pilot eppy, in particular, is very deliberately timed not with talk about her profession but with talk about her leaving Sihnon, which is the only known point of conflict in Inara's past and we know nothing about what caused it.


Of course there is no definite proof either way, but all theories that imply Inara not having freely chosen her profession go against her character and behavior as portrayed on the show.

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Double post.

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Triple post!

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First a quick comment on a previous post concerning the crew's spacesuits. (Not sure who exactly made the OP, and too inept to find it)

OP was wondering about the differences between Jayne's suit and the suits worn by Mal and Zoe.

Jayne's Suit-Loose, sort of flimsy, Bright Yellow, Shiny even. Helmet has good visibility to front, decent to sides. All fittings easily accesible to someone Else, not the suit's wearer.

Probably a common Laborer's suit, worn by Asteroid Miner's, Worker's at an Orbital Assembly Plant, or someone who is operating in a Low O2 atmosphere.

Bright colors so an "eyeball check" of the area let's you spot your buddy. Very important if some poor sod goes drifting off of a high orbital. Fittings arrainged so that your partner can handle bottle swaps, read gauges, etc. in case of emergency. Rugged enough and "cheap". Exactly the kind of suit a corporation or independent prospector would buy.

Mal and Zoes' suits-Snug, almost tight fitting. Appears to be made of much stronger materials. Dull, blends in. Very hard to see. Armor plating at critical locations. All fittings and controls accessible by the suits wearer. Helmet has good visibility all around.

Probably a "Raider" type suit used by the Independents in ship to ship action in space, or in combat in airless enviorments or toxic atmospheres.

Now for my observation. Severals of times our BDH's use a little handi talkie/communicator for person to person or ground to ship radio traffic. Most notably the final moments of "Ariel" and in "HoG". We've all seen it, that little black box. Took me a couple of veiwings to realize just what they (the props people) had used.

Back in the mid '80's a company, and I honestly can't remember who it was, developed a gizmo to assist in the location and rescue of trapped Firefighter's. It is a small box that hangs on the FF's SCBA (air) harness. Inside are tremblor switches and a timing circuit and a few other features. When a FF stops moving, the gizmo starts counting and if no movement occurs within a specified time, a Very Loud tone begins to sound and a Bright, Very bright strobe light begins to flash. All in hopes that the FF can be found in time.

Well, they weren't black, they were a very bright yellow. And they worked.

They called them Fireflys'.

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In the Message, you notice that Jayne is wearing a T-shirt that mirrors his actions in Ariel. It's a man, looking guilty, and on the phone, kind of like when he's making the call to betray River and Simon. Also, there is a blue skull and crossbones. Hands of Blue anyone?

[img]

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in Bushwacked, Wash is interrogated on an alliance ship and questioned about Zoe. he asks his interrogator if he's ever been with a warrior woman.

Gina Torres was on Xena i think.

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Not Firefly, but related anyhow....

I was watching season 5 of Seinfeld and in about mid-season (right around "The Cigar Store Indian" ep) one of George's potential employers was none other than Niska himself. I just thought that was kinda cool.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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not too subtle: in The Message, Mal says he doesn't want to jeopardize Inara's career, and she says "the career which you abhor?". sounds like what he always calls her.

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reader is awfully close to reaver. one's subtly connected to feelings and thoughts, one's brutally connected.

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I just noticed today when re-watching Safe that when Jayne is raiding Simon's bunk, he is wearing a stethoscope! Sorry if that was obvious to everyone else but I just noticed and I laughed my pants off! So perfect, so Firefly!

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

______________________________________________
Love Chaz

*Firmly grasps the Chain of Command*

What?

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Firefly has not only fantastic writing and acting, it also has incredible storytelling that comes in many different forms -- in words, expressions, visual images, and the way all those elements are combined.

I just watched OiS in high-def last night (on UHD) and caught a couple new-to-me things. I hope I'm not duplicating anybody's observations -- 'cause that would mean I read them and forgot!

In the opening sequence, after River runs out of the "very very crowded" cargo bay, Mal confronts Simon. Among the things he says is that (paraphrasing) Simon might have been shot, and since he was the doctor, who would patch him up?

That led to two thoughts. First, by that point Mal had obviously accepted Simon as an official crew member, namely, the medic. Second, though... Simon did get shot! As it turned out, the answer to Mal's question was Zoe (though she wasn't real happy about it, being more used to putting bullets in than taking them out).

Another little touch in that sequence (which I think has been mentioned before) is that just after Mal says to Simon "we're very much alone out here", the camera pans up through the hull and pulls back to show that we are, in fact, not alone at all.

And finally, in the galley scene, Mal cuts off the discussion of River's weapon skills, saying, "What we got here to deal with is the larger issue. And the larger issue is we got someone on board this ship might be a danger to us." At that point, the camera pans up (again) to show Early landing on the hull... making Mal's statement exactly true but in a completely different way than he intends.

Just wonderful.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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In Badger's gorram den, he says "What were you in the war? That big war you failed to win. You were a sergeant, yeah? Sergeant Malcolm Reynolds. Balls and bayonets brigade."

In the deleted scene "Operative tracks mal" on the screen it say:

Rank/Grade: Sergeant
57th Overlanders
Balls and Bayonets Brigade

What a shiny detail.

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Quite a lot actually. Even in Serenity the movie! During the funeral for Wash as the camera pans over Kaylee and Simon... look closely at her necklace. It's the word that's closely linked to marriage!

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Originally posted by mattcoz:

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Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
One last one, something I know others must have noticed. Inara is angry at Mal when he "hides" in her shuttle to get away from Saffron, but did anyone else notice how she snapped completely when he started talking about children? Even though she mentioned it first, it seems to send her over the edge. I don't know why, but that little exchange alone is enough to convince me that either she had a child she was forced to give up, or she can't have children at all.

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Maybe, but I think she just couldn't stand the thought of him with another woman. Then again there are supposed to be a lot of hints about her past, so who knows.

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THAT WAS KINDA MY THEORY ON INARA TOO!!! Although I took that snappy moment to mean that maybe Inara wanted to have children with Mal.

Also I got my theory about Inara/Child from Heart Of Gold. When Petaline is having the baby she says "This is just a moment in time, step aside and let it happen" I thought that probably had meaning and also when Jonah is actually born you see Inara's face and she just looks so happy, she's almost radiant.

"Joss is Boss"

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I can't remember if anybody has posted this up already, such a long thread! But in the BDM when the rest of the crew are making their stand and Mal is leaving to go to get the signal out, as he runs away all he does is look at Inara. It's like he's trying to imprint her face into his memory, in case he dies. Then the next time you see her there are tear tracks on her face.

It took me ages to notice this because it's all in the background but I really wish it wasn't Nathan and Morena are so good at holding conversations with their eyes that it would have been a brilliant moment if you could see their faces as they looked at each other.

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O.K. this is another thread I wish I had time to read all of, but obviously don't, so my apologies in advance if I am bringing something up that has already been beaten like Patience's horse.

For some who've followed my other posts, you may know I'd finally gotten my wife on board. Yay for me. Bigger yay for her. Well, we finished watching all the episodes, and in watching them with her (my third time through) there are two things I noticed for the first time:

1) When they are all returning to the ship in Jaynestown, Jayne is in the center of the frame and strongly lit; his hands are facing somewhat back and you can see that they are still covered in blood.

2) When Kaylee walks into the infirmary in The Message, I believe Tracey's heart monitor speeds up. Kind of on the nose for Joss, but there. Given the prevailing silence at the time in the scene, I imagine I was supposed to notice sooner, but the thing had been beeping long enough I think I'd blocked it out by then.

I'm pretty sure there were one or two more things that I noticed for the first time, but I forget them, now. Oh well, they'll be waiting for me the next time.

"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book

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I think the reason you find their theory/interpretation so ridiculous, is you are so stuck in your own interpretation - of words as much as the character - that you fail to realize others can have perfectly legitimate reasons for their interpretations. I'm not sure why, though. It actually surprises me how narrow your focus is, as if you aren't even allowing yourself to consider the possibility there could be another logical interpretation. :

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Well, Nandi describes Inara as focused, ambitious. That doesn't suggest outside pressure but rather actual free will.

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Like hell it does. Well, it can, rather, but plenty of people can be "focused" and seem "ambitious", while basically having been semi-forced into such behavior patterns in childhood, often without even really realizing it. Given that we've never seen Inara's past elaborated on, and may never see it elaborated on, either of you two's interpretation of the "focused and ambitious" comments is an equally valid interpretation.

Free will is a surprisingly nebulous concept, of course, and becomes more so with every other huge breakthrough in the science of psychology. Everything we feel and think and choose apparently boils down to neurons firing and hormones flooding and this and that other biological factor. Moreover, what happens in childhood inevitably affects your adulthood - and social pressure is one of those pesky little things that happens to affect most people a great deal, because of course, we are social creatures. Can you rise above it or choose another path than the one society or your family would expect or desire? Well, yes. Otherwise society would stagnate, and never change; we would not have had Women's Suffrage or the Civil Rights movement or the American Revolution if everybody did exactly what society told them to do. But doing so - going against the grain like that - is actually pretty rare, without a catalyst of some sort.

This is actually one of my main problems with your "outside pressure vs. free will" argument.

Inara is a particular type of woman. A very pretty, very charming, graceful woman, from a good family, on a planet that is a Core planet and accepts "Companion" as a perfectly legitimate job choice, nay, a really good, really respectable, high-paying job choice, for attractive, charming young women. And I think we can assume that Companion training is pretty damn expensive, seeing as for one thing, they charge so darn much, and for another, the training apparently ranges from archery and fencing and calligraphy to anatomy (sort of, heh) and psychology and music, and need I go on, really?

In short, we can reasonably suspect, until such point as Joss outright disproves it, that Inara could have had a family not too unlike the Tams - rich, with high standards for their children and a tendency to push education and encourage them to go into high-paying, educated, respectable careers. Note that you can even have your cake and eat it too - Simon, after all, was encouraged to become a successful doctor, but he likes being a doctor and is damn good at it. Inara, as someone pointed out earlier (albeit much differently and in a different context), has often deliberately chosen as clients people who have psychological problems - that stressed-out female politician, that virgin boy in "Jaynestown", you get the idea. Her profession is monetarily lucrative, but she clearly isn't just in it for the money. Nor is she in it for the sex, because she's generally supposed to to service the client, not the other way around. Inara may well have been pushed, however gently, into choosing the profession she did, and her liking it and choosing to go along with it does not disprove this. In fact, considering she literally started her training at age twelve, I think it's safe to assume that at best, she really did have a family with high expectations for her. She may well have thought that the profession she chose was respectable and noble and admirable and wanted

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Here's something I've always thought was kind of a nice touch, in the BDM however brief it was - blink and you'll miss it, hence why I have no problem posting it here even though it's entirely possible to see it the first time you watch the movie (which I did, which probably enhances my opinion of the shot somewhat, I don't doubt). It's in the climax of the film.

Now, many people have cited "my turn" as a powerful moment - and it is. Some have also cited the blood dripping off the Reaver blade in River's hand at the end of the battle, or the way she was backlit, as a small, awesome touch, which they are. But my favorite River moment from the climax is one I am perplexed to have never seen mentioned in such threads.

When River is fighting the Reavers, right before a cut (back to Mal's fight with the Operative, I think), she does this movement that is so beautiful: with two Reaver blades now in hand, and having been punching and beating off the Reavers with what's apparently kung fu (going by what the fight choreography guy said her fighting style was a combination of), we then see her lean down and forward a little on one leg, the other gracefully straight (sort of like a looser, less low-to-the-ground version of the pic they used for the desktop backgrounds), and arc the longer blade forward and then behind her in an incredibly fluid, graceful curve that hits at least two if not three Reavers.

It's perfectly integrated into the fight, is quick, and fluid, and the prettiest damn fight scene movement I have ever seen in a movie, ever, I think. Even the vaguely similar movement you see The Bride do in Kill Bill Vol. 1 is not nearly as beautiful. I filled with elation and I think I almost cried with joy when I first saw it, actually, after worrying for a couple minutes or whatever that she was going to die, and here she is a "creature of extraordinary grace", and the little itty-bitty schizo ninja ballerina is using her dance moves to kick psychotic space-cannibal posterior! And make it look like a perfectly-choreographed dance while doing it (which of course, it really was, because they based the style on a combo of "kung fu, kickboxing and ballet" to create a deliberately "balletic" martial art. My point is, the effect was definitely there, and it was beautiful and seamless and utterly appropriate).

No matter how many times I see the BDM, I can never not anticipate seeing that one shot again. It makes me swell with happiness to see such a beautiful movement, especially in such a triumphant moment for her. I remember my first time watching the movie, in the theater and having been completely unspoiled for it beforehand but having seen all or most of the TV series (and thus become attached to her of course), and the entire climax of the movie, I completely forgot to analyze it, which makes it the first time in years that something had been so good as to get me that absorbed. I mean, by all reasonable logic, I should have just known that due to their arcs, and given storytelling conventions that are conventions for damn good reasons, Mal and River, at least, could not die. But damn it, that harpoon hit Wash, just about the last character I would have expected to get killed off because who on Earth kills off the comic relief just out of the blue like that? (Joss does, that's who), and my brain just froze on me in panic and I forgot to remember that certain characters were almost sure to survive and most of the others were likely to survive, so I was anticipating just about every one of them to kick the bucket in some awful, horribly painful way. So, especially the first time around - I really was so filled with joy, seeing that scene and that shot. The triumph, the grace, the beauty of it. I still am filled with joy, just thinking about it.

Remind me if I ever manage to be directing a movie with action scenes, to get the guy who choreographed that one on the job. XD Then they can be super-pretty action scenes!

Oh, and here's a couple of non-Firefly/Serenity moments

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My cartridge fell out of my gun...

I don't think this has been mentionned yet. In the BDM, when Mal and Inara are entering the shuttle during the get-away sequence, Mal holds a fake grenade is his hand

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not sure if this was mentioned yet...but a few of my favorite subtleties are:

Objects - River pauses to watch Simon with Kaylee and she hears/sees his subconscious say - "i'd be there right now" and later on after the dining room scene he says those words to Kaylee when talking about home (or what he used to consider his home), but he catches himself and feels guitly for saying them. it's rather sweet, and painful.

Message - i like that Jayne takes his hat off, first when hearing the message on the ship and then again at the funeral. at first it seems like it's out of respect (strange for Jayne) but it maybe because he close to him mom - and Tracy is speakin about his parents. the second time is interesting because he appears to have changed a little since talking to Book about how he reacts to death. it seems much closer to home than it was not too long ago...

Objects - someone mentioned the open locker when Jubal and Simon walk into the cargo bay...and that River probably already opened it. you actually see them enter in the reflection of helmet that is sitting on a box. perhaps she set it down and had to hide while they passed through, she may have even listened to that whole exchange on the walkway and was able to get "very close" to Jubal by watching him. just a thought...

cool thread

dukusukker
---------------------

"noah's ark is a problem..."

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Originally posted by Romanceguru:
I don’t know why I never noticed this before but in “Trash” when Kaylee is explaining their plan on how to sneak out the lassiter (sp?) and Saffron say’s to Kalyee “Oh, except it's idiotic.” it immediately cuts to Jayne mug and his expression that shouts how dare you say that to little Kaylee. I love it because it shows how much Jayne is in solidarity with his peeps.]

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Oh wow! I originally didnt see it that way. Because Jayne always is so literal and not necessarily loyal...and he always seems to miss the point of everything...i took his look (reacting to the enire line as Saffron describes why the plan is idiotic) to mean:

"aw, gorram it! now what are we gonna do? how'd did you miss that? this plan sucks..."

almost like he's watching tennis match. on board one second, off board the next, then on board again. he slays me.

i need to watch it again with the "loyalty" twist. i love it!

dukusukker
---------------------

"noah's ark is a problem..."

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My cartridge fell out of my gun...

Ok check this one out. Don't know if this has been mentionned yet but...

Tam is the nickname for the Scottish/Gaelic name Tomas, which means... twin

Oh this one goes to my signature

TAM: Nickname for Scottish/Gaelic Tomas, meaning, "twin"

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Originally posted by Shewchuk:
In Serenity when Simon is cleaning River's wounds when she is handcuffed in the pantry river says something to the effect of "old men with no blood on their hands, yet they're in an ocean of it." I think shes refering to the parliament and their decision that led to the graveyard of Miranda.

Though and Action when harmonized free each from the other

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I think you're right. I think the exact quote is "It never touched them but they're drowning in it."



"The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds, given adequate vaccuuming systems." -River

"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think -River

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Originally posted by DesktopHippie:

Something that's not my observation but that comes from the Shindig commentary. The costume designer mentioned that the leather string Zoe always wears around her neck is a symbol of her marraige bond to Wash. Such a subtle touch, and somehow much deeper than if she'd worn a ring - which in the rougher places she always ends up would be a target for thieves.

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See, the problem with that statement is that Zoe is wearing that leather necklace in the flashback scene in Out of Gas where she meets Wash. Maybe it was designed by said costume designer to symbolize her bond to Wash, but the fact that she's wearing it when she meets him ruins that a little bit.

That's all I can remember right now. I know there are other little things, though. Guess I'll have to watch it all again and come back

*************************************************
Bible's broken. Doesn't make sense.

Zhu fu ni, mei-mei

---

I hear people talking about that a lot. My take on that is that it isn't really a blooper. Maybe it was just a piece of jewelry, but she adopted it to be symbolic of her marrage to Wash. See, they don't have a lot of money, so it makes sense that she wouldn't buy something new for that reason. Besides, I don't think people make a lot of those type of necklaces cause people like new, shiny stuff, while Zoe doesn't like new, shiny stuff.

Oh, and to contribute to the tread:
During the 5th time or so I was watching the movie, I realized that Book dies with his eyes open, but when Mal is laying his head down on that rock Book's eyes are closed, and Mal doesn't close them. I think thats more of blooper than a subtley ting, but I though I'd mention that.



"The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds, given adequate vaccuuming systems." -River

"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think -River

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In Out of Gas, aka the flashback episode, there is one flashback that involves when Mal first bought Serenity. At first all you hear is the background voice of the dealer telling Mal, "You treat her proper, she'll be with you for the rest of your life." but you don't see the actual deal. Not until the last scene do you actually see the transaction between the dealer and Mal, and as he is saying these words he is pointing to one ship, but Mal is turned the opposite way toward Serentiy.......just a classic scene in my humble estimation

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MostlyHarmless: love Mal's little smile in the last moments of that ep. It's such a subtle little "There you are," kinda smile. love it.

ShewChuk: the exact quote is "old men covered in blood, never touched them yet they're drowning in it" i believe, and u know I never thought of it that way before? Cool observation. what do you make of the first part of that quote: "show me off like a dog..." it sounds like she's referring to herself and the way the Alliance treated her (or to her resulting episode in the Maidenhead). but then what does that have to do with her immediately subsequent comment?

schooner: bout your comment on river's dancing in 'Safe.' I totally did not realize that until you mentioned it and I replayed the scene in my head. Guess I was always kind of caught up in the dance-firefight-dance-firefight confusion. Shiny. that's some cool filming right there.

__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."

A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.

You can't take the sky from me...

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Although I noticed Mal kiss the Crucifix in the pilot, I thought it more interesting that he turned away from everybody to bodyshield his kissing of the Cross and tucking it back in before anybody could see.

In BDM, I still haven't thought out the Scene where Mal and River are in standoff, before Simon puts her to sleep. With Jayne, she doesn't kill because she knows he won't kill her, and she had plenty of time to shoot Mal, but read his mind and obviously he hadn't made up his mind to shoot (or would have pulled the trigger before her shot killed him), so she wasn't pulling the trigger, but was still waiting to find out what he was going to decide. So this seems more of a psychic standoff than a physical standoff. And I haven't factored in any "crush" dynamics, either.

I also haven't figured out how Mal changes so quickly after fighting Jubal and then appearing behind him on hull in OIS - anybody figure that out?

Also, in the Wave scene that was shot in BDM, Mal tells Inara he's nude, and then she keeps trying to look down on the Wave screen, apparently trying to peek. However, in Trash, she already took in his full measure - even outside the blooper reel. So if her knowledge base is already filled, is she just curious if he has wood for her to peek at?

"My turn"

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Originally posted by asarian:

Shindig.

I've always wondered how long River's been listening in on Badger and henchmen before she wandered in, allegedly all confused. And this because River says: "Now you're what, petty thief with delusions of standing?"

What standing? Or rather, what standing that River knows of? It can really only refer to her having overheard Badger say: "Persephone's my home. I gotta do business with the people here. I don't want it known I brought someone in caused this kinda ruckus." But that convo took place several minutes ago. Which means River has been eavesdropping for quite a bit, all the way through the crew discussing strategy, and up and until Jayne's "We need a diversion." Then River happens to wander in, and provides one (the idea of the possibility of Jayne getting nekkid was probably too much for her to stomach, lol).

Seems River played Badger. From minute one.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

---

I don't think this was eavesdropping. She was reading his mind, getting perfect a dialect she'd never heard before except in his mind, knowing his mum and childhood and how he rose up in the biz and his current insecurities and delusions.

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oh, and if you notice as well: in "Shindig", Kaylee's still wearing her "party" make-up while Badger keeps watch over the crew. Her and Inara's eyes had some Cleopatra-like eyeliner. Pretty shiny, it was.^^

Ain't we just.

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By the way, has anyone else noticed that Mal, Zoe, Jayne and Kaylee all talk with the Western slang, while those from the Central planets talk more articulately? Hehe. I guess that's because they had more schoolin' than ol' Jayne.^^ It's not really subtle but it's a shiny evedence of their respective characters.

Never mind me. I don't know what I'm saying. I never know what I'm saying...

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Ain't we just.

CRY, BABY, CRY.
MAKE YOUR MOTHER SIGH.

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One thing I always notice is. . . at the end of "Jaynestown" when Jayne is reflecting on the events, "The Hero of Canton" is in the background, only it's a very soft version in the soundtrack. Thought that was especially shiny.

Also, I'm sure there's a perfectly good explanation, but I keep wondering about the episode "Bushwhacked." When the Alliace station is pulling Serenity in, Serenity is upside-down and is attached upside-down; when the officers come onto Serenity, Mal and co. are right-side up and there's no evidence of the gravity field changing as the Reaver-scarred man is taken to the infirmary on the Alliance ship. It never fails to leave me wondering. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

K

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were there monkeys? some terrifying space monkeys??

no seriously, i think they just goofed that one - put it down with wash's invisible steering... LOL!

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Originally posted by sorcha425:
Also, I'm sure there's a perfectly good explanation, but I keep wondering about the episode "Bushwhacked." When the Alliace station is pulling Serenity in, Serenity is upside-down and is attached upside-down; when the officers come onto Serenity, Mal and co. are right-side up and there's no evidence of the gravity field changing as the Reaver-scarred man is taken to the infirmary on the Alliance ship. It never fails to leave me wondering. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

K

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Yeah, I've always wondered about that... sometimes, I find myself tilting my head to see if I'm seeing it right...

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

I don't know what I'm saying. I never know what I'm saying.... -River Tam, Serenity (2005)

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On the blooper side,
In BDM, after the EMP and ship is in freefall, we see Wash's left hand go for a switchbank, which wiggles around on the console, swaying like it's hanging on a peg.

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That never fails to annoy me, that shot. It's so obvious every time! In fact it is so obvious that I thought it must be an optical illusion maybe because of the movement of Wash's thumb. Trouble is, I really don't believe that. More likely I'm trying to make excuses because it seems so lazy for anyone to have missed that and left it in the film. Maybe they just had no other shots they could fit in its place so Joss wincingly left it in.

Anyway, my observation for this thread, if it hasn't already been catalogued, comes from Safe. It's another one of those instances where 'Joss takes a jab at religeon.'

When Simon and River wind up in the hill-folk's makeshift hospital they meet Darlene (I think is her name), who has been looking after the sick. She's a sweet mannered, scripture quoting type who, when Simon quips "...nice little community of kidnappers," tells him to "Judge not..." ('lest ye be judged' I believe is the full expression). Later, she contradicts herself completely when she judges River: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live!"

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And I just noticed (after watching War Stories for the nth time):

When Zoe and Wash are preparing to get Mal back from Niska, Wash said the line "Leave no man behind." It sounded so heroic and his stance was so manly and all, and then you realize he's holding a girl-gun.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

I don't know what I'm saying. I never know what I'm saying.... -River Tam, Serenity (2005)

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Not tremendoudly subtle, but I've often admired the methods Star Trek managed production costs to keep the network and producers happy and still keep fresh scripts. Their general rule was to alternate episodes from all on-ship, with limited extra cast, and maybe some special effects, and then other episodes are on a planet or other major set, with gobs of extras casting. Small, contained sets would lean towards less expensive.

Some scifi series stay the whole time on ship or station - I'm thinking BSG or DS9.

Anyhow, Firefly had 5 episodes on ship (mostly) and normally with limited extra cast.
1. Bushwhacked.
2. Our Mrs. Reynolds.
3. Out of Gas.
4. Message.
5. Objects in Space.

These 5 make up about 1/3 of the episodes (13 plus 2 hr pilot).
But also including War Stories (largely on Nisko's station, very contained set), and Ariel (largely in hospital, but a bit more cast), would make it 7 episodes, almost half of the shows.

The rest either had large soundstage scenes or gobs of cast, I figure.
Special effects seemed blended well throughout.

I just thought it all interesting.

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I just noticed watching "Our Mrs. Reynolds" last night that when Jayne walks up with Vera, Mal holds his hand right over his gun the whole time. Like he's ready to draw, which he subsequently did in the movie. Also, same ep, after YoSaffBridge asks if the captain wants her to wash his feet, he looks first at her, then at his the Washburns, like he's daring them to say something about him being a lecherous old hump. And immediately after he walks out Wash tears into the fresh bao. Hilarious.

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

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Quote:

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Originally posted by sorcha425:
Also, I'm sure there's a perfectly good explanation, but I keep wondering about the episode "Bushwhacked." When the Alliace station is pulling Serenity in, Serenity is upside-down and is attached upside-down; when the officers come onto Serenity, Mal and co. are right-side up and there's no evidence of the gravity field changing as the Reaver-scarred man is taken to the infirmary on the Alliance ship. It never fails to leave me wondering. Any thoughts?

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Well, there's no 'right side up' in space, of course. Serenity is definitely docking upside down, relative to the Alliance Cruiser; but that don't change the gravity orientation within Serenity itself one bit, of course. It just like it were 'upside down' in space: out there in the back, it don't mean a thing.

So, how's the gravity field organized on the Cruiser? At least we know that gravity, in their cockpit, seems aligned with Serenity 'right side up' (as we watch Serenity turn upside down from their view screen). But it's entirely plausible that, ship this size, the outer hull gravity works the way gravity works on any planet/moon: drawing inward from all sides. Seems like a very natural way to organize gravity, if you ask me. So, Serenity, when it's docking, IS aligned with the Cruiser's gravity!

Now, we don't get to see precisely HOW Serenity docks. I reckon there's a type of docking ring (or they fly into a hangar of sorts; there's no footage showing the exact moment). So, their mutual gravity, at that point, would be perfectly aligned. And that idea is strengthened exactly because we DO, explicitely, get to watch Serenity turn over. First we wee both vessels right side up; but then, when Serenity is docking, it needs to obey the Alliance 'planetary' style gravity and turn upside down to land properly.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Ya, I know there's no right side up in space. I understand what you're saying, it just doesn't explain the actual gravity of the individual people as opposed to the Alliance ship and Serenity. Is the hangar itself able to change its gravity before the officers go into Serenity, and the officers are really on the ceiling of the docking area when we see the doors open and the crew standing right side up (according to them)?

I don't conjure I have any answers to this. Apologies if I've completely misread your entry.

K

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Ya, I know there's no right side up in space. I understand what you're saying, it just doesn't explain the actual gravity of the individual people as opposed to the Alliance ship and Serenity. Is the hangar itself able to change its gravity before the officers go into Serenity, and the officers are really on the ceiling of the docking area when we see the doors open and the crew standing right side up (according to them)?

I don't conjure I have any answers to this. Apologies if I've completely misread your entry.

K

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Oops, my computer had a brain cramp and posted this twice.

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This is more on the 'oops' side, but i was watching Objects in Space the other day and saw this- when Early is on top of Serenity listening in on the conversation in the mess room, you can see him through the windows above. Well the first thing is his hand through the window- and it's ungloved!

Oops. :p

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It took me a few times of watching Bushwhacked to notice that Jayne is slightly limping and when he sits in the co-pilot chair, you can see a black bandage on his leg. A souvenir from The Train Job.

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If you notice, the thing they walk through to go between Serenity and the Alliance ship is a big flexible tube. Maybe it has it's own gravity thing and twists so that people can go from one field to another.

Although, if I remember correctly, the little fighter ships and the cruiser are belly to belly. That might support the planet model of gravity.

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I don't know if anyone's mentioned this already, but I don't want to read nearly 400 responses.

The episode "Out of Gas" has an inaccurate title. If you think about it, the ship has plenty of gas. It's just a busted part of the ship that's not making it move. Although "Busted Hardware" isn't exactly a catchy title, so I'm giving it a pass.

I dunno. I'm a fan of movies and episodes that have contradictory or paradoxal titles. Like "Finding Nemo". Anyone whose read 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea knows that Nemo is Latin for nobody. So that movie translates to "Finding Nobody". It's probably the most existential title in Disney's catalogue.

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"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

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Quote:

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The episode "Out of Gas" has an inaccurate title. If you think about it, the ship has plenty of gas. It's just a busted part of the ship that's not making it move.

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I think it refers to the oxygen gas, not the fuel.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by fortinm:

Quote:

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The episode "Out of Gas" has an inaccurate title. If you think about it, the ship has plenty of gas. It's just a busted part of the ship that's not making it move.

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I think it refers to the oxygen gas, not the fuel.

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Hmm, I think "oxygen gas" is a stretch -- and a far stretch, at that. Unless you're at the dentist or some such, "out of gas" really only means one thing here: to be out of fuel. "gas". in this context, is not "a substance that is neither a solid nor a liquid at ordinary temperatures with the ability to expand infinitely," like air (plural 'gasses'), but is short for gasoline: the stuff used to fuel internal-combustion engines.

Having said that, I think no literal meaning was intended either way: the title refers to neither fuel nor any gaseous compound, but, figuratively, is comparable to Book's "The end of the line" line.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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