More Subtle yet interesting show observations - post yours
POSTED BY: jewelstaitefan
UPDATED: Friday, December 19, 2008 17:29
VIEWED: 34409
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At 400 replies, that other thread was about to crash my computer.
The other thread is t=17221
About the BDM opening sequence of scenes. Joss needed us to be surprised that The Operative stops, backtracks, and then walks through the 3D playback of the escape. Joss wanted us to be engaged in the moment, engorssed as if it was the actual scene/time of the escape, and not just a playback. If handled differently, many browncoats would watch it and say, oh, this is just a playback/recording of the actual event. So, how did Joss do this?
By starting off with the classroom scene of River's childhood, which then seems to be a memory of River's when the Teacher stabs her in the forehead and the reality shifts to Dr Mathias sticking his forehead probe in her and Simon is there to rescue her. This makes the viewer think that the scene is currently occurring, not a playback. River's thoughts would not be included in the security tape of the escape, so that is why we are surprised when the Operative talks and walks through the 3d playback image.
Sneaky, that Whedon guy.
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Yes, please, let's start using this thread. :D
Anyone notice that Early's ship looks a bit like Boba Fett's Slave I from Star Wars?
At the beginning of OiS, when we're in River's POV, Kaylee is the only one who doesn't say anything. (Except Zoe and Wash of course) She just looks kinda angry but when we flash back to her and Simon's conversation, she's laughing.
I also just noticed that there are what appear to be oxygen masks in various locations onboard Serenity. One to the side of the engine room door, on the right side of the cockpit in Inara's shuttle, one at the foot of Kaylee's bed and hanging from the back wall of the main bridge. I wonder what they're for.
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The oxygen masks would be safety equipment, required in case of rapid air loss. Each working space and crew space should have enough for the people berthed there, plus a bunch in common areas like the lounge or dinning area.
I also noticed while watching the BDM again that at the end, when the blasdt doors get stuck p[artly closed and KayLee says she can close them if she gets outside, the next camera shot is of River, not saying anything, and a bit before she does "My Turn". I think the gist of it was that River read KayLee's mind about everything KayuLee had done or was planning for that switch, panel, and door mechanism. Plus, although seh was the youngest, she was getting all of the full situational awareness from all of those present, and how dire their circumstances were. They were likely thinking they would all 6 die, and she could realize the "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one" equation (or, she may have known she could just whip azz).
Repeatedly, I am always dissappointed at how feq reaver bodies there are when thre blast doors open to River's hero pose. There should be bodies stacked on the floor, piled up, no floor surface open, plus body parts from the grenade.
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In "Objects in Space" when Jubal Early asks Kaylee if she had ever been raped, she doesn't answer him. Instead, she says that the captain is just down the hall. Why didn't she answer the question? Had she been raped in the past and was afraid to admit it? One of the big theories about the show is that everyone on Serenity was running from something. Is this what she was running from?
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhyreLight:
In "Objects in Space" when Jubal Early asks Kaylee if she had ever been raped, she doesn't answer him. Instead, she says that the captain is just down the hall. Why didn't she answer the question? Had she been raped in the past and was afraid to admit it? One of the big theories about the show is that everyone on Serenity was running from something. Is this what she was running from?
Hmm... interesting thought. :-[ Considering what little we know of where Kaylee grew up, that might indeed have been something she had to deal with.
Here's mine, another one about the River psychic flashes from 'Objects in Space' - Book's. (At least I hope that this is subtle.) Take the words that he said and disconnect them from River herself for just a second. "I don't give a flying hump if you're innocent or not. So where does that leave you?"
Seems a little bit like the sort of thing a corrupt cop might say to a 'suspect' in a nasty interrogation, like that organ hunter guy in 'The Message.' Is that supposed to be a hint about Book's past?
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Oh, yeah! Especially since we now know that Book was a dirty cop. Although, it still makes you wonder if there was some point in his past were he saw the light and realized how dirty a dirty, dirty cop he was then became a not so dirty shepherd... dirty... okay I'll stop!
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhyreLight:
Oh, yeah! Especially since we now know that Book was a dirty cop. Although, it still makes you wonder if there was some point in his past were he saw the light and realized how dirty a dirty, dirty cop he was then became a not so dirty shepherd... dirty... okay I'll stop!
....A Special Hell....
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Oh, I'm already headed there. Yup, it's true, I talked at the theatre once!
"I've got a theory: it could be bunnies."
-Anya, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: "Once More with Feeling"
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There's a plant in Mal's bunk but no windows. Where does it get it's sunlight from? There wasn't a UV lamp either.
In Bushwhacked, when the Feds are searching the ship, one of the things dumped on Zoe and Wash's bed is a Godzilla toy.
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I also wonder, in Bushwacked when the Feds are searching the ship, why they look under the placemats? Is it possible that in addition to the academy manipulating River's psychic abilities they also gave her the ability to shrink and become flat? 
Also, from Ariel, Mal smiles too much. He not only smiles at the doctor which makes the doctor suspicious but then, as he and Zoe search for River, Simon, & Jayne, he smiles again! Sometimes the man really is thick.
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The theme song begins with the line, "Take my love..." Does this mean Mal's compasion or did he have a girlfreind (or something more serious with someone)? If a girlfriend, wouldn't that be oh-so-intersting when Mal and Inara got serious and the old flame shows up?!
"I've got a theory: it could be bunnies."
-Anya, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: "Once More with Feeling"
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I always liked in War Stories when Inara shows her client out, Jayne says "I'll be in my bunk" and Zoe comes out with "Jayne, grab your weapon". However, the script makes it clear this is to be obvious (to everybody but Jayne), so we can't really call it subtle.
Also, int the pilot, I've been mostly puzzled when at the end, Mal says to Simon that, among other things, he ain't weak, and that ain't nothing - I didn't see how he would be referring to Simon's physical strength, or strong doctoring skills, or strong fighting ability, but I didn't conjure a whole lot about it. Now it dawns on me that Mal was probably referring to Simon's rescuing River, defying the Alliance, saving an innocent - that is what Mal sees as strength, and that perhaps Simon is human enough, despite his upbringing and social status, that he and Mal can work out the sharing of mutual space for a while.
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Yeah, I don't really get it when people characterize Simon as a weak whiny person. I think he's one of the strongest on the show. Hell, I dunno if I could become an fugitive and run to the ass end of just this globe to save one of my siblings let alone an entire galaxy/system/'verse!
Also, not exactly subtle but pretty much all the bamboo you see in Jaynestown is dead.
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I think "Y'ain't weak" is Mal-nese for "Hey, I'm sorry I knocked you ass over teakettle twice just on the first day we met." (And I would not be surprised at ALL if Mal has a plant made out of space!polyester in his bunk.)
Also, I think that looking under the placemats makes sense in case, f'rex, that's where they keep the lever that opens up the Sekrit Fugitive Hiding Room, or the key to the same, or a note that says, "Dear Wash: Hang a left, we have to drop off the fugitives on Boros, signed, Mal."
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Quote:Well, Mal did credit Simon for Kaylee's speedy recovery. I think he really meant that, overall, Simon wasn't entirely useless, unlike River (at the time).
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Also, int the pilot, I've been mostly puzzled when at the end, Mal says to Simon that, among other things, he ain't weak, and that ain't nothing - I didn't see how he would be referring to Simon's physical strength, or strong doctoring skills, or strong fighting ability, but I didn't conjure a whole lot about it.
"I've got a theory: it could be bunnies."
-Anya, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: "Once More with Feeling"
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhyreLight:Quote:Well, Mal did credit Simon for Kaylee's speedy recovery. I think he really meant that, overall, Simon wasn't entirely useless, unlike River (at the time).
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Also, int the pilot, I've been mostly puzzled when at the end, Mal says to Simon that, among other things, he ain't weak, and that ain't nothing - I didn't see how he would be referring to Simon's physical strength, or strong doctoring skills, or strong fighting ability, but I didn't conjure a whole lot about it.
Yes, that. Plus, I think Mal was really also referring to his physical strength (with regard to Simon's handling of Dobson, for instance). Mal, I think, just meant to say he saw in Simon an able and capable person.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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In BDM I've always been bothered at the end, when KayLee finally gets some, River's hair is not visible when she's upside down in the ceiling. That always seemed goofy to me.
Also in BDM, until reading the script I never recognized Derria Book's final lines to Mal as paraphrasing Tom Hanks/Capt Miller's final lines to Matt Damon/Pvt Ryan in Saving Private Ryan, which was a film Nathan was in.
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I normally am bothered by the sound problem at the opening. When the Universal logo zooms in on Earth that was, the teacher's voice is saturated or overmodulated, and I find it annoying. I never figured out if this was an intentional sound, meant as an FX, (and if so, what was it supposedd to mean?) or if it was merely a recording or editing error.
Does anybody know the answer?
My best guess on either count was that they wanted to use the pre-existing vocal recording from the series, and then blend/merge the sound from Tamara's voice for the opening classroom scene. Whether it was intentional to indicate the point of transferrance, or it was a technical difficulty in mixing, I haven't read comment about it.
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Hi everyone, I'm delurking at long last to post for the first time!
I was watching 'Ariel' yesterday, and I noticed that when Jayne is waiting for their hospital uniforms to be dropped off, you see him sending a message on the Cortex. That must have been when he contacted the Feds! I'm sorry if this has been said loads of times, but it honestly didn't occur to me until yesterday.
Another thing I noticed during 'Serenity': just after Mal shoots Dobson, you see Zoe pause for a moment and look down at the body before she goes to shut the door. It made me wonder why (Zoe's my favourite character so I tend to concentrate on her the most). Maybe she didn't approve of the way Mal killed Dobson, but felt she couldn't say anything? Hmm...
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhyreLight:
In "Objects in Space" when Jubal Early asks Kaylee if she had ever been raped, she doesn't answer him. Instead, she says that the captain is just down the hall. Why didn't she answer the question? Had she been raped in the past and was afraid to admit it? One of the big theories about the show is that everyone on Serenity was running from something. Is this what she was running from?
Kaylee has, in some ways, the most mysterious past... compared to the others whose story is more upfront (except Book, and they have a curious connection).
One possible hint?
I have puzzled on the introduction given to she and the captain on entering the "Shindig" - "Kaywinnet Lee Frye,and escort" kinda sounds like someone with "standing" (accompanied by someone without). Maybe running from being the misfit tom-girl of a well-to-do family?
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In BDM, why did the Rescue and Research craft crash, but Firefly didn't? I know they said the people weren't there to guide them in, but wouldn't a Rescue craft be capable of landing without assistance or guidance.
Maybe this is just an example of how retro-nimble the Firefly is, ideally suited for smuggling ans such, and the high-falutin newer ships can't really do much. But, still wierd for a rescue and research ship.
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Quote:I don't think that's her past. In "Out of Gas" when she first meets Mal, she said that she worked for her father who hadn't had a lot of work recently. That, her accent, and lack of knowledge of high-class etiquette allude to a working-class family background.
Originally posted by Shepardbookem:
Kaylee has, in some ways, the most mysterious past... compared to the others whose story is more upfront (except Book, and they have a curious connection).
One possible hint?
I have puzzled on the introduction given to she and the captain on entering the "Shindig" - "Kaywinnet Lee Frye,and escort" kinda sounds like someone with "standing" (accompanied by someone without). Maybe running from being the misfit tom-girl of a well-to-do family?
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End of OMR, talking about Saffron, Inara says "don't play a player". It sounds so...90's, as in 20th century.
Mal has said "we're in space, it's always dark" and the theme refers to space as "the black". However, in fact, this is a solar system with these dozen planets and hundreds of moons, all getting night and day from their sun. So the ONLY time you're in the black/dark is when you land on the shadow side of a world. When out of atmo, yo're always in the deathly, blindingly, bright sunlight which you need heavy-duty filters/shields to keep you from getting crispy. Unless you always fly in the shadow of some body between you and the sun, which would be difficult and cumbersome. Likewise, when the script says "day" it does not refer to a calendar/time component, it only refers to which side of the planet you landed on when you entered fro space - the shadow side or the lit side.
I do like the theme and it's implications, but realistically "the black" doesn't make sense for being in space.
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Hmm, I wonder, did Badger serve in the War? Thing of it is, namely, in War Stories we see Badger eat an apple... with a knife! Just like Mal and Zoe do. Something to do with pressure grenades, and all. So, that makes me wonder whether maybe Badger was in the war too.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Quote:
Originally posted by Muggi:Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Hmm, I wonder, did Badger serve in the War? Thing of it is, namely, in War Stories we see Badger eat an apple... with a knife! Just like Mal and Zoe do. Something to do with pressure grenades, and all. So, that makes me wonder whether maybe Badger was in the war too.
HEY nice catch! Never noticed that one before.
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Quote:
Originally posted by shinyseven2:
Also, I think that looking under the placemats makes sense in case, f'rex, that's where they keep the lever that opens up the Sekrit Fugitive Hiding Room, or the key to the same, or a note that says, "Dear Wash: Hang a left, we have to drop off the fugitives on Boros, signed, Mal."
Reading this thread late, but had to say that's funny! :)
~~~~~
This 'distress' wouldn't be takin' place in someone's pants, would it?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sugarfaerie:
Another thing I noticed during 'Serenity': just after Mal shoots Dobson, you see Zoe pause for a moment and look down at the body before she goes to shut the door. It made me wonder why (Zoe's my favourite character so I tend to concentrate on her the most). Maybe she didn't approve of the way Mal killed Dobson, but felt she couldn't say anything? Hmm...
I think you were just witnessing Joss' astounding attention to detail. :) Zoe is a professional soldier: routinely, she just checks the body to make sure he's really dead (read: no longer a threat).
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Zoe had debated through the episode about the repercussions of dealing with a Fed in every way. I think she was just throwing out all the threads of options which no longer applied. plus she had to have a reason to delay so that Mal and Jayne would have time to come over to the body, pick it up, and haul it over the ramp, returning just before the doors close on Mal and Jayne. The script says Mal hauled Dobson out on his own - not sure who they had envisioned casting as Mal back then.
Another observation so subtle that I didn't recall that it wasn't even in the show, was in The Train Job, before the scene where Mal awkwardly bows to Inara, where Simon introduces River to Mal. Mal tells her to just call him Mal, and then River & Simon end up explaining to Mal how to bow as a gentleman. This scene is deleted, so when Inara sarcastically implies Mal might be a gentleman and then he awkwardly bows, we have no idea what that was all about. This was the "instructional" scene to set-up the latter, which was a practice widely used in Out of Gas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:Quote:
Originally posted by Sugarfaerie:
Another thing I noticed during 'Serenity': just after Mal shoots Dobson, you see Zoe pause for a moment and look down at the body before she goes to shut the door. It made me wonder why (Zoe's my favourite character so I tend to concentrate on her the most). Maybe she didn't approve of the way Mal killed Dobson, but felt she couldn't say anything? Hmm...
I think you were just witnessing Joss' astounding attention to detail. :) Zoe is a professional soldier: routinely, she just checks the body to make sure he's really dead (read: no longer a threat).
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
Agreed. But she did say something earlier to Jayne, I believe, that killing a fed would be a really stupid idea. So it could potentially go either way.
I'm continually amazed that the network didn't like the Pilot. It was brilliant, thought-provoking, emotional, intelligent, everything that you need to hook an audience into watching your show. For instance, (since we're talking about Zoe), after Kaylee has been shot, and Simon is threatening to let her die, there were a number of things she could have said. She could have been specifically threatening, like "She dies, and Mal and I will blow you out the airlock ourselves." Instead, she says "If she dies, you'll never make it to the Feds." Which basically implies, what we'll do to you will be far worse than what the Alliance ever could or would. It's such a powerful line, and fantastically delivered.
~~~~~
"We live in a spaceship, dear." ~Zoe
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What the heck was Wash wearing in the BDM? Some sort of laconic flight school suit? What happenned to his trademark Hawaii shirt? I think non-series viewers would have really liked and appreciated Wash's personality in those Hawaii shirts.
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Jaynestown starts with the whole swearing thingy, and that the whole point of swearing is that it ain't appropriate. And even though Kaylee offers him an open door ("Now see, this'd be the perfect time for a swear-word,") Simon remains the gentleman, even after Jayne ransacked his infirmary. It's only after Simon sees the statue of Jayne that he belches out a very audible "Son of a bitch!" :)
Now, apart from the fact that this is the first time I noticed it, I find it rather subtle, because you'd think, as Kaylee suggested, that someone messing up your infirmary really WOULD be the perfect occassion for a swear-word. Yet instead Simon only swears about something that really matters to him: his 'rivalry' with Jayne; not that he considers Jayne his intellectual match or anything, but I'm referring to the whole "I re-attached a girl's leg. Her whole leg. She named her hamster after me. I got a hamster. He drops a box of money, he gets a town." thingy. It's really seeing a statue in Jayne's honor that is his perfect time for a swear-word. :)
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Check it out - just after Wash (with the help of Kaylee, Book and Jayne) pulls the 'Crazy Ivan" on the reavers, in the next scene on the bridge, right after the Cap'n says "I knew there was a reason I hired you"... look closely, the camera shows Wash, his arms extended as he's still piloting, but there's nothing in his hands - no controls. My guess is that he wasn't expecting his hands to be in the frame, and after they filmed it was a good take... why re-do it?
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I think they actually explain why this was in the visual companion. If I remember correctly, it had to do with moving the pilot's seat so that they could fit everyone into the frame.
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
End of OMR, talking about Saffron, Inara says "don't play a player". It sounds so...90's, as in 20th century.
Mal has said "we're in space, it's always dark" and the theme refers to space as "the black". However, in fact, this is a solar system with these dozen planets and hundreds of moons, all getting night and day from their sun. So the ONLY time you're in the black/dark is when you land on the shadow side of a world. When out of atmo, yo're always in the deathly, blindingly, bright sunlight which you need heavy-duty filters/shields to keep you from getting crispy. Unless you always fly in the shadow of some body between you and the sun, which would be difficult and cumbersome. Likewise, when the script says "day" it does not refer to a calendar/time component, it only refers to which side of the planet you landed on when you entered fro space - the shadow side or the lit side.
I do like the theme and it's implications, but realistically "the black" doesn't make sense for being in space.
I think what you're saying is part of why space IS "black." That single star would be unbearably bright, but its light isn't hitting anything, isn't reflecting off of anything except, well...you. Also, while in that light, it would tend to drown out the starlight, I think. So, no starlight, no reflected light, just this one colossal fusion-bomb of a star and anywhere else you look...nothing. Not the filtered, diffuse glow of sunlight coming through the atmosphere and bouncing off a million things until the whole landscape kind of shines. Wherever you look, just the Black of empty space.
Also, one of my favorite bits is the end of the Pilot, with Book in Inara's shuttle. I won't quote the dialogue, since I'm sure we all know it. It has always interested me that we don't know for sure WHY he chose to go to her with his burden, but we can be sure he didn't just wind up in her shuttle by chance. He lays his fears, his doubts, his guilt of not feeling pity for the lawman, all bare before Inara as he kneels before her. And she stands before him, and tells him maybe he's where he needs to be: i.e. You did the right thing. And then the camera pans back, we see Inara, with her hand on Book's head in a gesture of blessing that is at least as old as human history itself. And there it is: The priest seeking absolution from the whore.
Forget Book's and Inara's dark pasts, and all the subtext that scene might now have for those of us who have watched these few episodes, these gems, obsessively, and go back to the first time you saw it. I always try to do that each time that scene appears because all the discussion and debate about past sins distracts me from the beauty of that moment, which is truly sublime all on its own.
"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book
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Quote:
Originally posted by whitesilence:
If I remember correctly, it had to do with moving the pilot's seat so that they could fit everyone into the frame.
Pretty much, they just hoped that no one would notice.
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In the bar at the beginning of Train Job, Mal sets his cup down on the bar with a sound like a glass makes but his cup is actually the bottom portion of a generic plastic water bottle.
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I have puzzled on the introduction given to she and the captain on entering the "Shindig" - "Kaywinnet Lee Frye,and escort" kinda sounds like someone with "standing" (accompanied by someone without). Maybe running from being the misfit tom-girl of a well-to-do family?
I think Mal was being a gentleman and stepping out of the limelight to let Kaylee have her moment. If you notice she enters all alone and he walks behind her, then steps down and takes her hand. I thought it was one of the sweetest moments in the whole series. From the time he realized his big mistake when he hurt her feelings, to telling her he had a job for her, to the dance scene. All very sweet and to me, so Mal. He does have a very caring side, but it comes out one on one.
Also, I don't think Mal wanted his name broadcast around the room. He is a petty thief, you know. HaHa Remember when he chastised Jayne for always calling his name in a heist? He likes to be more incognito.
JMO
SBar
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I think you're "right as rain" (to quote another favorite sci-fi!)... in a way the upfront sub-text (is there such a thing?) of that ep. was Mal trying trying to make right what he clearly realizes is his bumbling way with people (women specifically) whom he cares for and loves. He's like the schoolyard tough kid who's not all bad, has a sense of honor beneath the swagger, and his sublimated heart makes everyone like him, in spite of - you name it!!
'course, Kaylee really got him back by giving him the un-shakable nickname "Cap'n tight-pants"!!
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+
In "The Train Job," I have an interesting observation on the train itself: it's a magnetic levitation (maglev) train, but in the typical mash-up culture of Firefly, it looks more like a train from the late 1800s to early 1900s.
The interesting thing is that maglev trains are real, right now, on this Earth-That-Is, and any model of maglev train you look at, including decades'-old German Transrapid technology, looks downright futuristic compared to the train in "The Train Job," like the Earth-That-Is maglevs are from sci-fi, and not the other way around.
mrmgraphics
(website under serious reconstruction, if not life-saving surgery)
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We all know Kaylee's famous "Ooooo, synchronizers!" line, right? (Ariel, where she holds that synchronizer in front of her). What I didn't notice until today is that she actually uses that synchronizer for the ambulance! Makes sense that she would, of course; it's just that I only noticed it now. :)
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Also, not sure if it's subtle, it's more of a debunk.
In Ariel, in the one scene we see Jayne getting cuffed, and in the other, right thereafter, as he tries to escape and is shot with one of them gorram high-tech Alliance crap shock-guns, all of his sudden his hands are free! I've seen this mentioned before as a minor continuity error. But if you look and listen closely, you'll hear only the sound of one cuff closing (around his left wrist, which we also see getting cuffed); and a still-frame viewer shows that, in fact, the cuffs are still dangling on his left wrist when he falls to the ground!
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Jaynestown makes a strong statement about faith and believing in something. On the one side, Book and River fight over the bible while on the other side the mudders put all their hopes in Jayne. The interesting thing here is that Jayne is somewhat of a symbol for the bible. You put your trust in him alone, you get disappointed cause he won't save you. But if you treasure him and his qualities, he is helpful and will get you out of trouble. Just don't misread him and his intentions, or nothing good will come from it. (like the bible)
Signatures are for wusses
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Quote:
Originally posted by WhoringStories:
Jaynestown makes a strong statement about faith and believing in something. On the one side, Book and River fight over the bible while on the other side the mudders put all their hopes in Jayne. The interesting thing here is that Jayne is somewhat of a symbol for the bible. You put your trust in him alone, you get disappointed cause he won't save you. But if you treasure him and his qualities, he is helpful and will get you out of trouble. Just don't misread him and his intentions, or nothing good will come from it. (like the bible)
Signatures are for wusses
Daaaaaaannnng. I missed that.
This must be why the "Jesus Christ" character is Jayne Cobb, being the only BDH with the initials J.C. Gotta think on that a bit.
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Daaaaaaannnng. I missed that.
This must be why the "Jesus Christ" character is Jayne Cobb, being the only BDH with the initials J.C. Gotta think on that a bit.
Good thinking! Maybe there's more to him than just witty remarks...
Signatures are for wusses
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Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
We all know Kaylee's famous "Ooooo, synchronizers!" line, right? (Ariel, where she holds that synchronizer in front of her). What I didn't notice until today is that she actually uses that synchronizer for the ambulance!
I noticed this the first time, and every time I see it again I am a little disappointed. Not in the show, by any means, but disappointed for the characters. When I first saw it, I assumed it was just some random part she was getting excited about, that it didn't pertain to the current mission, but would be a back-up part she could use on Serenity, which we all know they desperately need. Later, when she uses it on the ambulance, I felt bad that Kaylee didn't get to find anything fun or useful for Serenity on her outing (at least not that we got to see).
"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book
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I had always assumed that most of what they got for the ambulance craft would then be transferred for use on Serenity - they didn't keep the ambulance, they would have likely stripped it (maybe sold back to the junk yard). Never thought they would just waste it on one use.
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
I had always assumed that most of what they got for the ambulance craft would then be transferred for use on Serenity - they didn't keep the ambulance, they would have likely stripped it (maybe sold back to the junk yard). Never thought they would just waste it on one use.
Yeah, I guess it never dawned on me that they actually got away with the ambulance. I was always so amazed they made it back alive, and then transitioning to the scene with Mal and Jayne, I never gave it much thought.
"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book
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Quote:
Originally posted by SchoolboysWink:Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
We all know Kaylee's famous "Ooooo, synchronizers!" line, right? (Ariel, where she holds that synchronizer in front of her). What I didn't notice until today is that she actually uses that synchronizer for the ambulance!
I noticed this the first time, and every time I see it again I am a little disappointed. Not in the show, by any means, but disappointed for the characters. When I first saw it, I assumed it was just some random part she was getting excited about, that it didn't pertain to the current mission, but would be a back-up part she could use on Serenity, which we all know they desperately need. Later, when she uses it on the ambulance, I felt bad that Kaylee didn't get to find anything fun or useful for Serenity on her outing (at least not that we got to see).
Point of interest, it's Wash who actually finds what looks suspiciously like a catalyzer! (the part he gleefully tosses at that other piece of luh-suh craft). Now, that's a part Serenity would REALLY come to need.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Point of interest, it's Wash who actually finds what looks suspiciously like a catalyzer! (the part he gleefully tosses at that other piece of luh-suh craft). Now, that's a part Serenity would REALLY come to need.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
No. Wash found that in Ariel.
The catalyzer was needed in Out of Gas, a few episodes before. Of course, Wash didn't know what it was.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SchoolboysWink:Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
I had always assumed that most of what they got for the ambulance craft would then be transferred for use on Serenity - they didn't keep the ambulance, they would have likely stripped it (maybe sold back to the junk yard). Never thought they would just waste it on one use.
Yeah, I guess it never dawned on me that they actually got away with the ambulance. I was always so amazed they made it back alive, and then transitioning to the scene with Mal and Jayne, I never gave it much thought.
Now you got me thinking about it, they probably got a better price for that craft on another planet, and they did have the space in the cargo bay. Those would be more common on Ariel, with "big junk" as Simon said.
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Point of interest, it's Wash who actually finds what looks suspiciously like a catalyzer! (the part he gleefully tosses at that other piece of luh-suh craft). Now, that's a part Serenity would REALLY come to need.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
No. Wash found that in Ariel.
The catalyzer was needed in Out of Gas, a few episodes before.
You telling me that 'cause you think I don't know? :) But seriously, I've always wandered about that: what sequence Joss wrote the episodes in. It really DOES look like a catalyzer, namely; and it always seemed a mite odd that Kaylee would allow him to throw it away AFTER OoG.
N.B. The catalyzer seems to be a bit of a recurring theme, actually. Wasn't it seen in the cargo-bay of Serenity in the BDM, too? (when Kaylee and Jayne are talking alone).
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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You said "a part they would come to need" implying you thought OoG was after Ariel.
Kaylee did not see the catalyzer that Wash picked up - she was working on the synchronizer.
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
You said "a part they would come to need"
Yes, come to need during the series; a punctiliar kinda thing: not necessarily after Ariel. :)
Quote:
... implying you thought OoG was after Ariel.
Yeah, after watching Firefly a zillion times, I'm sure that's what I thought.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Point of interest, it's Wash who actually finds what looks suspiciously like a catalyzer! (the part he gleefully tosses at that other piece of luh-suh craft). Now, that's a part Serenity would REALLY come to need.
I'll have to keep my eyes open for the resemblence the next time I watch. I never noticed it before.
"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book
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There's something I never completely understood in Shindig: Inara, browsing through several proposals from prospective clients. Like the young pale guy who says, "If you've selected my proposal to hear, the honor that you do me flatters my.., honor." She clicks him away, and proceeds to select Atherton. But his, suddenly, is a live feed! (as he's clearly interacting with her).
So, what's up with that? How CAN it even be a live feed? Hard to imagine Atherton sitting by his phone/Cortex all day, ready to take Inara's call (and yet he picks up instantly). Or maybe I'm a complete moonbrain, and it never were a live feed at all! But it sure looked like it to me.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Also, I just realized there's a relationship between Jayne's "Let's moon em!" and Badger's "And I didn't flash my arse at the gorram law!" :)
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Also, I just realized there's a relationship between Jayne's "Let's moon em!" and Badger's "And I didn't flash my arse at the gorram law!" :)
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
which i think says a lot about Badger - his desire for 'respectability' versus his jealousy of such rebellious gestures. He'd LOVE to flash his arse at the law,, i'm sure!
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Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Also, I just realized there's a relationship between Jayne's "Let's moon em!" and Badger's "And I didn't flash my arse at the gorram law!" :)
Which i think says a lot about Badger - his desire for 'respectability' versus his jealousy of such rebellious gestures. He'd LOVE to flash his arse at the law, I'm sure!
What's really subtle (as opposed to my other observation), is that Badger refers to the Alliance Cruiser as "the law". A regular civilian might not haven chosen such a colored word, but a crook like Badger, he naturally sees things in terms of being chased by the authorities; to him, even the mention of Alliance means "the law".
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Asarian, re: Inara in Shindig.
Consider this: you are listening to your voicemails, or messages, and suddenly a new, active, call comes in, you can take the call and interact in real time instead of playing phone tag. Now imagine this is the future, where video messages do this effortlessly with smooth transition. I hear "You've got mail" is something done in our time.
Of course, you might complain that I've read this in the Officail Companion or something.
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Of course, you might complain that I've read this in the Official Companion or something.
You've got that figured backwards. :) I will entertain any suggestion offered that helps me see a seemingly broken Firefly thing unbroken. :)
So, I'll take your explanation and consider the matter solved.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Not an observation, just a couple questions; How long after they were released from the POW camp was it that they bought their ship? And,where did Mal and Zoe get the money to buy a Firefly?
--------------------------
Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
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Quote:
Originally posted by HistoryPhil:
Not an observation, just a couple questions; How long after they were released from the POW camp was it that they bought their ship? And,where did Mal and Zoe get the money to buy a Firefly?
--------------------------
Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
How long? Tim said for Out of Gas that the Mal/Zoe/salesman flashback was "about 5 years" ago, so the purchase was about fall of 2512. U-day was about August of 2511. The meeemos said the POWs were not held long, released as goodwill, I got the impression a few months. So it seemed it was about a yearish for Mal to get tired of "being under Alliance thumb" or whatever.
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A late reply to this but just saw it. The search of the ship by the Alliance has to be one of the funniest scenes, particularly when it pulls back to reveal about 20 of them in the kitchen, tripping over each other, pulling back chairs (boo - River was under the table!), turning over placemats etc.
Did these people not have any sort of, you know, scanners? Tsk! You pays your gorram taxes and the Alliance can't even afford a decent life-form detector.....
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Quote:
Originally posted by HistoryPhil:
,where did Mal and Zoe get the money to buy a Firefly?
Point of interest, it's really just Mal's ship ("You paid money for this, Sir? On purpose?"). Zoe didn't co-buy it or anything.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:Quote:
Originally posted by HistoryPhil:
,where did Mal and Zoe get the money to buy a Firefly?
Point of interest, it's really just Mal's ship ("You paid money for this, Sir? On purpose?"). Zoe didn't co-buy it or anything.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
OK. I will rephrase the question. How expensive is a used, non-functional, Firefly class transport ship and where did Mel get the money to buy and repair it? Was Mel's Independence Army back pay deposited in a bank that did not crash when the Independents lost? Did he receive a mustering out bonus from the Alliance when he was released? Maybe compensation from the Alliance for the destruction of his ranch on Shadow? Was he able to save enough working for others in the year between his release from the POW camp and the his purchase of Serenity to buy the ship?
Not arguing, just puzzled.
Phil
--------------------------
Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
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Quote:
Originally posted by HistoryPhil:
OK. I will rephrase the question. How expensive is a used, non-functional, Firefly class transport ship and where did Mel get the money to buy and repair it? Was Mel's Independence Army back pay deposited in a bank that did not crash when the Independents lost? Did he receive a mustering out bonus from the Alliance when he was released? Maybe compensation from the Alliance for the destruction of his ranch on Shadow? Was he able to save enough working for others in the year between his release from the POW camp and the his purchase of Serenity to buy the ship?
Not arguing, just puzzled.
Phil
I wasn't trying to be argumentative, either. :) It's just that, for the story line, I think it's good to know it's really just Mal's boat.
To answer your question, I dunno. How much does, say, a non-functioning car cost here at a used-car dealership? Not that much, either, I reckon. Zoe was surprised he even paid any money at all! Mal was a Sargeant; not the highest paying job, ever, I take it, but he had probably saved enough to buy what most would consider a piece of fei-oo. The idea that he received some compensation for the destruction of his ranch on Shadow, is also well possible. But even without, I think he could still afford it. We know he didn't take a mortgage out on it, or some such. Or at least, if he did, we know he paid it off in full ("Bought and paid for" - Bushwhacked).
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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In BDM I've always been bothered at the end, when KayLee finally gets some, River's hair is not visible when she's upside down in the ceiling. That always seemed goofy to me.
Also in BDM, until reading the script I never recognized Derria Book's final lines to Mal as paraphrasing Tom Hanks/Capt Miller's final lines to Matt Damon/Pvt Ryan in Saving Private Ryan, which was a film Nathan was in.
I think there is another subtle connection to Saving Private Ryan. Perhaps it has been mentioned before, and if so - sorry for the repeat - but re-watching Saving Private Ryan recently, I watched the sharpshooter character kissing his cross before lining up his target and killing him. It was basically the same gesture done by Mal in the Serenity Pilot before going out with Zoe to shoot down the craft that was strafing them.
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It's a well known fact, of course, that Joss modelled Jubal Early after Jubal Anderson Early, the famous Confederate general of the American Civil War. What I didn't know (until a recent visit to wikipedia) is that the general was an outspoken believer in white supremacy. Early wrote about African Americans as "barbarous natives of Africa" and wrote:
"The Creator of the Universe had stamped them, indelibly, with a different color and an inferior physical and mental organization. He had not done this from mere caprice or whim, but for wise purposes. (...) Reason, common sense, true humanity to the black, as well as the safety of the white race, required that the inferior race should be kept in a state of subordination."
I therefore find it not without a sense of irony that the Creator of *our* 'Verse made Jubal Early... a BLACK man! :)
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Well here it goes, my take on River's walk-thru in OIS (which is brilliant by the way, more on this later).
River is seemingly awakened by a voice saying "We're all just floating." Is it Serenity or is it Jubal Early tailing the ship.
She walks around the ship comes upon Simon and Kaylee but only "hears" her brother's innermost thoughts, his secret. Same thing with Jayne and Book. Jayne we know about (see Ariel), which is rather curious to me. Why was Jayne so intent that they didn't find out what he did? But Book's thoughts were really interesting. It was not about River. The popular theory is that Book was once a crooked cop. Perhaps he helped frame someone and is making amends by walking around the universe. Why else would he know so much about crime and guns?
Which brings us to Inarra. This is out there but here it goes: I believe that she was diagnosed with some incurable disease and was possibly talking to the doctor when she says: "I'm a big girl. Just tell me." I believe that the vial she had in the pilot was actually her meds and she was wondering if she should take it. Why else would she insist that anyone, especially Mal, entering her shuttle knock first? Mal's comment refers to the crushing defeat by the Alliance and present day life.
What's most interesting though is that we got no "read" from Kaylee. Is it something that is buried deep within Kaylee's subconcious? Someone had mentioned in another post that Kaylee did not answer Jubal when he asked if she had ever been raped. It is a very interesting theory. As for Wash and Zoe - all she could feel was their love and passion for each other.
Just a few thoughts!
On some planets they juggle geese!
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Yes, that scene with Book and Inara is one of my favs, among many. It always gets me. I too feel that Book's confession to Inara is his way of seeking forgiveness for not protecting the lawman, but not only that, the fact that he felts it was right to shoot him in that situation. The gesture of placing her hand on his head seemingly blessing him is a great shot. GREAT SCENE, period.
Inara is extremely wise and often imparts her wisdom and her take on the decisions Mal makes. But that is a recurring theme throughout FF. The women advise with solid wisdom. For instance, Zoe's comments to Mal about never leaving a man behind influences Mal's decision to continue to harbor the fugitives.
Shiny! Let's be bad guys!
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Quote:
What's most interesting though is that we got no "read" from Kaylee. Is it something that is buried deep within Kaylee's subconcious? Someone had mentioned in another post that Kaylee did not answer Jubal when he asked if she had ever been raped. It is a very interesting theory. As for Wash and Zoe - all she could feel was their love and passion for each other.
I once made an attempt to analyze the audio:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=4&t=31398
Perhaps you find it of pertinence to your observations, too. :)
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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I always thought that it was implied that the reavers shot them down or forced them down. Jaynes mentions that the ship was "banged up
all to hell".
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The councilor's bodyguard always catches me off guard. suit from Morris Day or 90's Arsenio Hall, and wearing those cereal-box sunglasses. Cracks me up a little each time.
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Many have mentioned Mal kissing his cross in the BOSV scene of Pilot Serenity.
After watching Saving Private Ryan again yesterday, I had noticed that Jackson (Barry Pepper) the sniper several times kissed his cross before engaging. I had often assumed it was, in his case, for advance forgiveness from the Almighty for those he was about to most surely kill - for he was a good sniper. This time I considered it was possibly a prayer for the soul of the target he was about to send home. I also wondered if it was instead a request to the Lord that he could be spared from death in this incident. He was usually shooting from a position of concealment, defilade.
I never got the impression from Mal in BOSV (yeah, I noticed the cross kissing the first time) that he could be praying for those he was about to terminate, or for forgiveness from the Lord for the sin of killing a man he was about to do, but rather just for him to survive the current situation.
Anybody think it was for any other reason? I can't see Mal caring that much about Alliance to consider them worthy of a prayer from him.
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Some subtle bits I've noticed in BDM: when Kaylee tells Mal "tell that to Inara" the way Wash looks down and backs away for Kaylee to leave makes me grin, and back on the ship when Jayne asks why River is back on board, Mal glances at Zoe, she looks down, they seem in agreement, and it's a continuation of their "we used to not leave a man behind" exchange.
Always like Joss's jab when the lab guy refers to teachers as scary monsters in River's nightmare.
One I hadn't caught before:
When Mr Universe explains that the Alliance has gone to great trouble to find your little friend, and find her they have, the look of chagrin Mal gave I had always figured was like woe is me, we are in trouble now. But this time I realized it was actually Mal realizing just how right Simon was, objecting to River going to Lilac, trying to keep River away from the tentacles of the Alliance, and how it was Mal who thrust River into a time and place where she got triggered, and is his fault, his responsibility to set things right. Never got that before today.
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More on BDM:
On Miranda, the Research and Rescue vehicle is labeled C53D. Also, the first vehicle (car like) that Jayne finds with a withered victim is also labeled C53D in the same font.
Regarding the smaller vehicle, I don't understand why it has the same model name or logo. If it came with the crashed vehicle that investigated the deaths, how quick did this stuff act to make the driver just stop, after just arriving on planet?
Regarding the C53D, I had always assumed it to be homage to the helicopter CH53D Sea Stallion, upgraded to the CH53E Super Stallion, and one version is the MH53J Pave Low used for Search and Rescue missions. I figured the discrepancy was just the non-technical nature of Joss.
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I was particulary happy to see a Rhino Iguana. I can't for the life of me remember which episode? (I've only been watching Firefly for 3 months now). Aside from the domestic animals I think that was the only other animal in the show.
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
could be praying for those he was about to terminate, or for forgiveness from the Lord for the sin of killing a man he was about to do, but rather just for him to survive the current situation.
Anybody think it was for any other reason? I can't see Mal caring that much about Alliance to consider them worthy of a prayer from him.
I've always seen that moment as a prayer for survival and possibly, to succeed. See, Zoe says something like, you really think we can bring it down? And Mal says, do you even need to ask, but then pauses, momentary flash of fear and doubt (that he can't vocalize, or he would destroy the moral of Zoe and his other men) so he puts his faith in God and kisses his cross, prays. And of course, he succeeds at first, but then loses the war, all of his men dying but Zoe, he loses his faith in God, which we all know about.
At least, that's what I always thought.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salamander95:
I was particulary happy to see a Rhino Iguana. I can't for the life of me remember which episode? (I've only been watching Firefly for 3 months now). Aside from the domestic animals I think that was the only other animal in the show.
I think you are referring to BDM Serenity. After the Lilac heist, arriving at the Plaza Atoll on Beaumonde, heading for Maidenhead bar. They dock, close up on some bike rider, passing the caged lizard, bathed in neon.
On the DVD, select scene 6 "Triggered"
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I agree with Scathac reagrding Mal's kissing of the Cross. I think he's doing all of the above pray. Asking for forgiveness of sin, success, souls for the soon-to-be-departed and survival.
When he lost the battle, he lost his faith.
"You're welcome on my boat, God ain't."
[I've always seen that moment as a prayer for survival and possibly, to succeed. See, Zoe says something like, you really think we can bring it down? And Mal says, do you even need to ask, but then pauses, momentary flash of fear and doubt (that he can't vocalize, or he would destroy the moral of Zoe and his other men) so he puts his faith in God and kisses his cross, prays. And of course, he succeeds at first, but then loses the war, all of his men dying but Zoe, he loses his faith in God, which we all know about.
At least, that's what I always thought.
Shiny! Let's be bad guys!
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I also used to assume that he was praying for victory, success, survival. But Zoe asks abiout bringing down the warcraft that is strafing them, killing the pilot aboard.
Joss (or Mal) seems to borrow from Saving Private Ryan, and Jackson (Barry Pepper) is the sniper, who always kisses his cross before each engagement, so it occured to me that Mal might be praying for forgiveness of killing the pilot, or for the pilot's soul.
I'm no longer certain my assumption was correct.
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
More on BDM:
On Miranda, the Research and Rescue vehicle is labeled C53D. Also, the first vehicle (car like) that Jayne finds with a withered victim is also labeled C53D in the same font.
Regarding the smaller vehicle, I don't understand why it has the same model name or logo. If it came with the crashed vehicle that investigated the deaths, how quick did this stuff act to make the driver just stop, after just arriving on planet?
...I figured the discrepancy was just the non-technical nature of Joss.
Not the helo...
The smaller craft belonged to the larger one , and was transported aboard it...It belonged to the mission just like the Galileo shuttle belonged to Star Trek's Enterprise...The Galileo was one of 7 shuttles that belonged to
NCC-1701 , so it was marked 'NCC-1701~7'.
...Same deal with the two Alliance vessels in Serenity BDM .
The pilot of the smaller craft was probably debilitated gradually , and eventually became incapacitated , while still aboard...He'd probably been out on a recon mission of a sort , before he stopped caring about finishing what they'd come there for...
Remember, the craft were marked ' Research & Rescue ' , an odd sort of dual mission , but one that was appropriate to planet Miranda , given the circumstances of the failure there...
Actually , the I.D. number on the two craft is 'C57D' . It's an homage to FORBIDDEN PLANET , an earlier Science Fiction classic film...
In the film , the spacecraft is designated UNITED PLANETS Cruiser C-57D...
See the similarity to UNION of ALLIED PLANETS , or even , UNITED FEDERATION of PLANETS ?
That's good , because Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry drew inspiration from the Robert Wise classic , Forbidden Planet , when creating the seminal TV series...
If you ever watch Forbidden Planet , and then see the Star Trek pilot episode ," THE CAGE ", you'll notice a lot of similarities , plus a natural progression...
There was a stiff and notable militarism in both , as one example...
Another connection is that Robert Wise was eventually tapped by Roddenberry to direct the first Trek film ,
Star Trek : The Motion Picture...
Forbidden Planet was very influential...
It's theme was really a retelling of Shakespeare's 'The Tempest'...In the science fiction version , there was a 'creature from the id' , a battle for the mind , that is of a kinship with River's brain storms...
And , Miranda is ' a forbidden planet ' to the folk in the 'Verse , and Serenity's crew...
The antithesis of Tempest is Serenity...
" Storm's getting worse... "
" We'll pass through it , soon enough..."
Give Joss all due credit...The man knows his trade...
When something ' sciency ' is happening , there'll be blinking lights that can't be missed...
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I always assumed that the research vessel was knocked down by the reavers - maybe not as prolific as they are now (at least as spaceborn), but the firefly managed to slip through easy enough just because they were disguised.
Going along with this train of thought ... would the Alliance really just send one vessel to investigate the happenings of over 30 million people? Especially on a "rescue" mission? Just a thought ...
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Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
See the similarity to UNION of ALLIED PLANETS , or even , UNITED FEDERATION of PLANETS ?
That's good , because Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry drew inspiration from the Robert Wise classic , Forbidden Planet , when creating the seminal TV series...
Robert Wise directed a lot of great movies, but Forbidden Planet was not one of them. It was directed by Fred Wilcox. Some of Wise's movies were :
Day The Earth Stood Still
Andromeda Strain
Sand Pebbles
Sound Of Music
Run Silent, Run Deep
The Hindenburg
West Side Story
Star Trek Motion Picture
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This is concerning the scene with Wash at the controls, but he's not holding anything. First mentioned in December of 07, I believe.
Ahh! I know this is late, but Ahh! I sat and stared at that the first time I noticed while watching and figured the same thing!!
"Also, I can kill you with my brain" -River Tam
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Robert Wise directed a lot of great movies, but Forbidden Planet was not one of them. It was directed by Fred Wilcox. Some of Wise's movies were :
Day The Earth Stood Still
Andromeda Strain
Sand Pebbles
Sound Of Music
Run Silent, Run Deep
The Hindenburg
West Side Story
Star Trek Motion Picture
My bad !
Mental mix-up with 'Day The Earth Stood Still'...
Same genre , same era , different though great film...
Incidentally , I think that 'The Hindenburg' success had much to do with Wise being selected to direct ST:TMP...
YMMV , of course...
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Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
More on BDM:
On Miranda, the Research and Rescue vehicle is labeled C53D. Also, the first vehicle (car like) that Jayne finds with a withered victim is also labeled C53D in the same font.
Regarding the smaller vehicle, I don't understand why it has the same model name or logo. If it came with the crashed vehicle that investigated the deaths, how quick did this stuff act to make the driver just stop, after just arriving on planet?
...I figured the discrepancy was just the non-technical nature of Joss.
Not the helo...
The smaller craft belonged to the larger one , and was transported aboard it...It belonged to the mission just like the Galileo shuttle belonged to Star Trek's Enterprise...The Galileo was one of 7 shuttles that belonged to
NCC-1701 , so it was marked 'NCC-1701~7'.
...Same deal with the two Alliance vessels in Serenity BDM .
The pilot of the smaller craft was probably debilitated gradually , and eventually became incapacitated , while still aboard...He'd probably been out on a recon mission of a sort , before he stopped caring about finishing what they'd come there for...
Remember, the craft were marked ' Research & Rescue ' , an odd sort of dual mission , but one that was appropriate to planet Miranda , given the circumstances of the failure there...
Actually , the I.D. number on the two craft is 'C57D' . It's an homage to FORBIDDEN PLANET , an earlier Science Fiction classic film...
In the film , the spacecraft is designated UNITED PLANETS Cruiser C-57D...
See the similarity to UNION of ALLIED PLANETS , or even , UNITED FEDERATION of PLANETS ?
That's good , because Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry drew inspiration from the Robert Wise classic , Forbidden Planet , when creating the seminal TV series...
If you ever watch Forbidden Planet , and then see the Star Trek pilot episode ," THE CAGE ", you'll notice a lot of similarities , plus a natural progression...
There was a stiff and notable militarism in both , as one example...
Another connection is that Robert Wise was eventually tapped by Roddenberry to direct the first Trek film ,
Star Trek : The Motion Picture...
Forbidden Planet was very influential...
It's theme was really a retelling of Shakespeare's 'The Tempest'...In the science fiction version , there was a 'creature from the id' , a battle for the mind , that is of a kinship with River's brain storms...
And , Miranda is ' a forbidden planet ' to the folk in the 'Verse , and Serenity's crew...
The antithesis of Tempest is Serenity...
" Storm's getting worse... "
" We'll pass through it , soon enough..."
Give Joss all due credit...The man knows his trade...
When something ' sciency ' is happening , there'll be blinking lights that can't be missed...
That'sd great, more sublte than I caught.
I thought it weird that the population succumbed after a bit, but that driver of the research car could fall victim so fast - why didn't the people who dropped in the pax also fall victim?
No reavers to stop the research from getting there, research was from 12 years ago, Jayne says reavers only startedc showing up 10 yrears ago.
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Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Robert Wise directed a lot of great movies, but Forbidden Planet was not one of them. It was directed by Fred Wilcox. Some of Wise's movies were :
Day The Earth Stood Still
Andromeda Strain
Sand Pebbles
Sound Of Music
Run Silent, Run Deep
The Hindenburg
West Side Story
Star Trek Motion Picture
My bad !
Mental mix-up with 'Day The Earth Stood Still'...
Same genre , same era , different though great film...
Incidentally , I think that 'The Hindenburg' success had much to do with Wise being selected to direct ST:TMP...
YMMV , of course...
I liked your post, found it intriguing, and that's why the little correction on Wise. Forbidden Planet, IMO, is the forerunner to many modern concepts of sci-fi. It is clear that Roddenberry used many of the concepts from Planet for Star Trek :
Uniforms in space
Military and science personnel in space
Laser pistols
Laser "artillary"
Communicators on body
Captain and ship's Doctor comraderie
Captain and ship's Engineer comraderie
Captain and ship's First Officer comraderie
Captain gets the girl
The decelleration chambers (DC stations) from Planet look an awful like prototypes for Trek's transporter platforms and beams
Advanced technological secrets from a long-extinct alien civilization...a plot theme for many Trek episodes
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Now it dawns on me that Mal was probably referring to Simon's rescuing River, defying the Alliance, saving an innocent - that is what Mal sees as strength, and that perhaps Simon is human enough, despite his upbringing and social status, that he and Mal can work out the sharing of mutual space for a while.
Well said. I think that is exactly it.
ShepardRoy
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"Also, I can kill you with my brain" -River Tam
I thought that was really funny. She actually can't kill with her brain ... but, she is dealing with someone who does not know that ... and it freaks him out ...
ShepardRoy
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhyreLight:
In "Objects in Space" when Jubal Early asks Kaylee if she had ever been raped,
This brings me to (what I think) is an interesting point. OK here goes....
I wander what Joss's take would be on his black characters. I mean Book is restricted by his religion. Zoe is restricted by her soldier mentality. Early is psychotic and "The Believer" (a very good retooling of Early) in Serenity is...well a believer. All of them pretty much simply obey.
As much as I really like Jayne's character I think Early or The Believer would have made better main characters.
But my main point is why are the black characters so restricted. Each one obviously has a 3D backstory which in itself could be a film. What do you think?
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Those characters you mentioned can actually make their own choices: Zoe disobeyed Mal's order and married Wash, Book shot people (very un-Christian-like), and Jubal... well, he wasn't under anyone's specific orders. He could have chosen to turn down the bounty if he wanted to. He's not a cop.
But, what about River? If you expose her to the right subliminal message, she'll do anything. She has no choice in the matter.
Experience the Horribleness!
http://www.drhorrible.com
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Why aren't there more Chinese people and any Chinese characters in this show?
An observation I have made about this show is that when ever I loan out one of my two copies of the series it never comes back quickly.
http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html
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Agreed! But it just seemed "to me" to be a (dont have a word yet). I like the characters but they seemed to be token. Now Joss is such a good writer that even token characters are very good. Great potential in their back stories never really explored. Its the old thing that when you are in the minority things individuals do stand out more. So should they have been in the minority in the new verse?
Rallem: I also wandered about Chinese too.
Maybe its just up appreciating the talents of the writer and expecting more?
Just thinking out loud :)
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Do you think this question is ever asked of Joss at conventions?
http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html
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Lurkalot: The Shepherd's Tale is supposed to be Book's back story, and that is going to be released in a few months. Not all hope is lost!
Rallem: I think the lack of Asian people in the show a symptom of it being canceled so quickly. It is very, very possible that Serenity would have traveled to planets that were more populated by Asian descendants than European. There is evidence there were plans for other cultures to pop up here and there as well. Niska spoke Czech, so it can be easily assumed that there are pockets of the 'verse that are neither of Asian or English influence.
Experience the Horribleness!
http://www.drhorrible.com
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Thanks for your response. At least you did respond. I get the feeling that this is a subject that many Caucasians don't want to go near (for obvious reasons I suppose.
Bottom line is I think Firefly and Serenity are excellent and while I was watching the shows these issues didn't even occur to me (with one exception) as I was enjoying them too much. I saw Serenity first then Firefly. However after watching the OiG episode it occurred to me that Early and "the Believer" were very similar characters with slightly different motivators. The rest of my thoughts followed afterward.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lurkalot:
Thanks for your response. At least you did respond. I get the feeling that this is a subject that many Caucasians don't want to go near (for obvious reasons I suppose.
Bottom line is I think Firefly and Serenity are excellent and while I was watching the shows these issues didn't even occur to me (with one exception) as I was enjoying them too much. I saw Serenity first then Firefly. However after watching the OiG episode it occurred to me that Early and "the Believer" were very similar characters with slightly different motivators. The rest of my thoughts followed afterward.
Not sure what obvious reasons you would suppose caucasians don't feel the need to grasp and revel in the concept of victimhood. Perhaps you feel the victimhood angle is the sole domain of minorities.
I did not feel the characters of Zoe, Book ("african americans") or the actors Jewel, Nathan (Foreigners - Canadians) where typecast or prtrayed diferently than any other.
Let it rest.
All of the characters had wonderful backstories which were tragically not explored due to the unfortunate cancellation. I am certain we are all aware of the loss of not being able to see each of these explored. The most wooden of characters presented I would have to view as Zoe, but that was largely due to her character's past and practice and training as a professional soldier. Realistically, how many times have you seen a black actress portraying a professional soldier, non-hysterical, solid stable predictable reactions, without being over-the-top heroic fantasy unrealistic super star?
Posts like yours force me and others to disengage from the feel-good of enjoying our show and to re-think of characters like Zoe and Book not as they were written and protrayed, but downgraded to an evaluation of their minority (or not) status. This is not the thing to wear well on a short-lived series we loved so much.
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhyreLight:
Lurkalot: The Shepherd's Tale is supposed to be Book's back story, and that is going to be released in a few months. Not all hope is lost!
Rallem: I think the lack of Asian people in the show a symptom of it being canceled so quickly. It is very, very possible that Serenity would have traveled to planets that were more populated by Asian descendants than European. There is evidence there were plans for other cultures to pop up here and there as well. Niska spoke Czech, so it can be easily assumed that there are pockets of the 'verse that are neither of Asian or English influence.
Experience the Horribleness!
http://www.drhorrible.com
I often wondered where this series might have gone had it not been under the threat of being cancelled by Fox, because I always thought of the episodes “The Message,” “Heart of Gold,” and “Objects in Space” were just space holder shows for Firefly even though they each held important aspects for the further development of the series. I always felt that these three shows did not follow the normal ebb and flow of the series and they did not develop an ebb and flow of their own, as I suspect Joss must have felt a need to place in these three episodes certain story points that he would have otherwise taken him longer to explore in the series. There is one possible future perspective of Firefly here:
http://www.stillflying.net/
http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html
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