Obama
POSTED BY: SergeantX
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 14, 2025 22:38
VIEWED: 14131
PAGE 1 of 1
OK, I've just read Obama's "Blueprint For America". It was nothing new, nothing I didn't expect. Pretty much just good old-fashioned 'Great Society' liberalism. Funny how that's actually looking like an appealing alternative. Not because I agree with him, I think he's wrong about pretty much all the solutions he proposes. That said, I'm considering supporting his campaign. If only because the other two media-endorsed candidates scare the living shit out of me.
I do think Obama's wrong. But he's just 'plain wrong'. He's not 'totally batshit neo-con insane wrong'. All this depends on what kind of third party runs emerge. I'll probably end up in one of those camps, but since there's not much on the table in that regard just yet, I'm looking at those the television thinks I should vote for.
(For those of you who care, I'm still working for the Ron Paul campaign. But the focus has shifted. We want to go to the convention with as many delegates as possible and at least try to inject a voice of reason into the proceedings. And ultimately we have long-term plans of re-aiming the Republican Party, but that's not going to happen before this fall.)
I still have some outstanding issues I'd like to hear Obama address. In the blueprint, he mentions nothing about the sacrifices we've made in terms of our individual rights and the loss of our basic constitutional protections. He says nothing at all about the Patriot Act, Real ID, the Department of Homeland Security, The Homegrown Terrorist Act, etc, etc, etc... That bothers me a great deal. The one thing that makes liberals tolerable is that they usually give some attention to civil liberties. Not if it interferes with their grand plans to "make people better", of course, but they at least tend to be better about this than the Republicans.
He doesn't seem to have much to say about the drug war either, except that he has 'no interest in legalization'.
I do like that he's pushing for more transparency and accountability in government. But that's one of those things every candidate says, and never does anything about if elected. The problem here, and with pretty much all of his solutions, is that he never gets to the root of he problem. He wants to curtail corporate influence in Washington, but fails to recognize the source of the problem - too much government power. When a government official can make or break a company, or an entire industry, with the stroke of a pen, those companies WILL find a way to influence that official, legal or otherwise.
He wants to get out of Iraq, but he doesn't seem to recognize the errors in our foreign policy that keep getting into wars like that in the first place.
He wants to make health care more available, but he wants to do it with more of the same policies that have created the mess in the first place.
What do you all think of him? My overall opinion is that he doesn't really offer any kind of substantial change. But that, in and of itself, is a refreshing change. He's also a decent PR man. I'm generally pretty dismissive of such superficialities, but after eight years of W, it's something we're starved for. I also like his intentions, for the most part. I don't think any of his proposed solutions will get us there.
In short, I think he'll make things worse. But I think that he'll at least slow the rate of acceleration as we swirl down the drain. I can't say that about McCain or Clinton.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
What do you all think of him? My overall opinion is that he doesn't really offer any kind of substantial change. But that, in and of itself, is a refreshing change. He's also a decent PR man. I'm generally pretty dismissive of such superficialities, but after eight years of W, it's something we're starved for. I also like his intentions, for the most part. I don't think any of his proposed solutions will get us there.
I think Obama is a good man, and if both houses of Congress were in Republican hands it wouldn't bother me to much to have him as President. With both houses in Democrat hands and Obama's "cult of personality", I think he could do substantial damage to this country. I tend to like divided government because change comes slowly and needs bipartisan support to happen. If Obama sweeps onto power with a perceived mandate, we could see "substantial change" in areas that will be almost impossible to reverse in the future. Areas like gun control and new government entitlement programs come to mind. I'm also concerned that his inexperience will allow foreign leaders like Putin and Chavez to walk all over him.
If Obama does become President we can only hope he messes up his first year in office bad enough(like Clinton did) that the Republicans can take back Congress in the midterm election.
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I don't like his gun control position but overall I think he's OK, somewhat better than Hillary, somewhat better than McCain. I wouldn't feel bad about voting for him unless he got all his gun control wishes which I don't think he will. I think he will likely be largely ineffectual as an agent of change but will probably at least keep things from getting much worse.
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I think his combination of inexperience and lack of ruthlessness will ensure nothing gets done, which normally wouldn't be so bad - IF our national course at this time wasn't headed straight off a cliff.
I'd rather chug a lug a bag fulla razor sharp rocksalt than vote for any of these establishment bastards, prolly write in Ron Paul, although...
Since he threw in the towel on us - something that I disagree with, but that's his decision for a tactical reason rather than just a lack of guts...
I dunno, if Obama looks like a shoe-in and it's damn near pointless, I might write in Al Sharpton out of pure spite.... he'd like that, since I owe him one over Genarlow Wilson still.
Of course, as for the Rethuglicans, I think the whole cursed party oughta be RICO'd, judicially lynched (hey, THEY put those fanatic judges there in the first place, only have themselves to blame!) and hung from the lightposts up on capitol hill.
Then do it to the Dimocrats, who, being dimmer and more tolerant, are less of a threat, but a threat all the same.
Then shoot the judges when we're done with em.
And good riddance to the whole bad lot.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Wait a minute..... you're still working for Ron Paul, the uber-Constitutionalist, but you're thinking of voting for Barack Hussein Obama ?? 
(Obama campaign office - Texas )
You can't be friggin serious.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Who me ? are you insane ??
No way I could hold back the gag reflex to vote for Billary the NAFTA-pushin, Molech-humpin, Big Pharma pet bitch, I hate her almost as much as PN does, and I think that's sayin somethin 
Couldn't stomach Obama-lama-ding-dong neither, for reasons previously expressed... I just think we might wind up stuck with his wimpy well dressed ass cause he's not as much an obvious lunatic as the rest of em... pretty damn sad when he looks good by comparison, innit ?
And what do the Rethugs have but McCain... who's positions on a lot of things made this sudden, radical change after he got that nice fat chunka change to his campaign fund from AIPAC...
That was a while ago, mind - but if you go back and correllate the dates and the position turnarounds and swaps, you'll see they all happened in that week.
If anything it's amusing in a sad trainwreck fascination kinda way watching the mainstream media try to frost this turdcake of a "decision" to somehow make it more appealing to the masses, and of course, I laugh at the magic "29%" that they espouse every week right on schedule, when in fact it's closer to 14% give or take +/-3% depending on specific region.
It's also very telling that the people hate congress even WORSE for being the collaborators and enablers of this lame shit - I note they rolled over on the immunity thing, coulda toldja they were gonna do that, the gutless bitches.
On top of that, the blatant fraud and chicanery of the primaries has fully convinced me at this time that the entire electoral process is hopelessly compromised - especially since all that shit is fully documented and no one seems to much care... that apathy kinda scares me, makes me wonder if it's a calm before the storm...
In John Ringos The Road to Damascus even the proles eventually started blowing shit up, though it took em a while to get that pissed....
That's a book I think you'd like, Rap - while the "bad guys" encompass both ends of the political spectrum, it makes a decent case busting on liberal stupidities and end results as well, reading it would definately add to your stock of effective arguments against their policies.
It's a good read all on it's own, if you've ever liked Keith Laumers BOLO work, and the political aspect is just gravy on the side.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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A lotta people say he's just an empty suit. But thing is, I'd take an empty suit over a corporatist like Shrillary, a warmonger like McInsain, or a theocrat like Huckleberry any day.
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I think that, at least with Obama in office, I would actually be able to sit through a speech given by the President of the United States. I haven't been able to do that once yet (too young to care about Bill Clinton, and Bush... ugh). I also think that the country would be able to make it through any of them, but McCain really worries me, and Clinton probably can't win. So, it's Obama, a third-party, or a write-in vote for me.
Once a lurker, always a lurker.
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Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
I think that, at least with Obama in office, I would actually be able to sit through a speech given by the President of the United States....
I've resisted the idea that this should matter at all for a long time. But I think that presidents can fill a valuable role as a 'spokesperson' for their country. Not only when representing us to the rest of the world, but in being able inspire the nation.
By some accounts, JFK wasn't much of a president. But he'll remain one of the most beloved presidents because he had the ability to make the nation feel good about itself - something we desperately need after the last seven years. That's why, regardless of the fact that I disagree with his political ideology almost 100%, I'm thinking Obama could be a decent president, at least better than Clinton or McCain.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Obama IS going to be the next President.
I watched the 3 speeches last night...his, McCain's and Hillary's. He blew them all away. Hillary came off as a pathetically deperate shell of a woman, so full of lies and bullshit that all she can muster up is something akin to "a chicken in every pot." McCain looked old & feeble, mumbling some rambling crap about his experience, in front of a few hand-picked Repub wonks jockeying for a potential Cabinet postition or something...totally non-Presidential. Obama won the night. In front of a packed arena with 18,000 screaming college kids...it looked like the Beatles at Shea Stadium. His speech was terrific, and full of historical events that changed the course of history. It sounded like a mix of JFK and MLK...very appealing to those Bush-haters and even Independents wanting change. He may be even more popular than Hannah Montana! Hillary will be finished after Ohio & Texas, and Obama (along with his fervently biased-in-his-favor media) will pound McCain into the ground.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Obama IS going to be the next President.
I watched the 3 speeches last night...his, McCain's and Hillary's. He blew them all away.
Its hardly in the bag.
First of all I would not count the Clintons out until the body is cold and you've poked Hillary with a stick a few times. I think they can and will go after Obama at least one more time. Then there is the Superdelagate issue. If Obama goes into convention tied or slightly ahead in delegates, then Clinton wins. 1/3 of Democrat Delegates are Superdelegates.
Two, Obama has a big experiance hurdle to overcome. He plays it well against Hillary, arguing a choice between the past and future. But its a long time till November and a crisis or attack could really put into American minds the question of who is best able to handle a bad situation and in that regard McCain is far above any of his opponants.
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Then there is the Superdelagate issue. If Obama goes into convention tied or slightly ahead in delegates, then Clinton wins. 1/3 of Democrat Delegates are Superdelegates.
I don't think the DNC will allow that to happen. If they "overturn" the "will of the voters" you could have a race war, or at least riots in the streets, and a very bruised & fractured Dem party. Youre right about Hillary....not to count her out, but she's looking mighty weakened right now.
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They need to get rid of 'electorates' all together. The people of this country vote and if the majority of them want a certain candidate then that is who should win. The electoral college is outdated and needs to go away.
Who got the 'popular vote' 8 years ago? Or was it 4? It's been so many long, painful years. It certainly wasn't the idiot we have in office now. He embarrasses this country every time he opens his mouth.
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leiasky:
They need to get rid of 'electorates' all together. The people of this country vote and if the majority of them want a certain candidate then that is who should win. The electoral college is outdated and needs to go away.
I hope you live in New York city, Los Angeles, or Chicago, because if you don't, your vote won't count for much without the electoral college. The reason we have a Democratic Republic is to protect minority rights. Mob rule might be OK for you if you're in the majority, but most in this country believe the minority should have a say in their government also. Why not just eliminate Presidential elections altogether and just poll the 10 biggest cities in the US to see who the next President should be.
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Wow - where on Earth did you find that picture of Hero's cubicle?
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Quote:And how did Hero know that Che is my idol?
Wow - where on Earth did you find that picture of Hero's cubicle?
!Si se peude!
I don't know about Obama. He refuses to say anything other than mush. Maybe that's what most people need to hear now, but it makes me think that he's either really .... mushy.... or really, really, really smart.
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
I think that, at least with Obama in office, I would actually be able to sit through a speech given by the President of the United States....
I've resisted the idea that this should matter at all for a long time. But I think that presidents can fill a valuable role as a 'spokesperson' for their country. Not only when representing us to the rest of the world, but in being able inspire the nation.
By some accounts, JFK wasn't much of a president. But he'll remain one of the most beloved presidents because he had the ability to make the nation feel good about itself - something we desperately need after the last seven years. That's why, regardless of the fact that I disagree with his political ideology almost 100%, I'm thinking Obama could be a decent president, at least better than Clinton or McCain.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
This country doesnt feel good about itself?? Why cause we "choose to feel bad" (like Bush had everything to do with that, forgot about 9/11, huh)about this country? I still fly my flag everyday. I love this country. If you say Iraq makes us feel bad, I disagree. We are doing good things in Iraq, the media "chooses" to show it as a bad place. yea, war is hell, I agree. But compaired to what they had before, it is a lot better. They have something they have never had before, which we take forgranted, Freedom.
If we dont stand our ground in Iraq, then all the troops who died, died for nothing. you can say what you want(but then again this is America) but those troops over there dont feel bad about this country and neither do I.
Keep Flying!!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tholo:Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
I think that, at least with Obama in office, I would actually be able to sit through a speech given by the President of the United States....
I've resisted the idea that this should matter at all for a long time. But I think that presidents can fill a valuable role as a 'spokesperson' for their country. Not only when representing us to the rest of the world, but in being able inspire the nation.
By some accounts, JFK wasn't much of a president. But he'll remain one of the most beloved presidents because he had the ability to make the nation feel good about itself - something we desperately need after the last seven years. That's why, regardless of the fact that I disagree with his political ideology almost 100%, I'm thinking Obama could be a decent president, at least better than Clinton or McCain.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
This country doesnt feel good about itself?? Why cause we "choose to feel bad" (like Bush had everything to do with that, forgot about 9/11, huh)about this country? I still fly my flag everyday. I love this country. If you say Iraq makes us feel bad, I disagree. We are doing good things in Iraq, the media "chooses" to show it as a bad place. yea, war is hell, I agree. But compaired to what they had before, it is a lot better. They have something they have never had before, which we take forgranted, Freedom.
If we dont stand our ground in Iraq, then all the troops who died, died for nothing. you can say what you want(but then again this is America) but those troops over there dont feel bad about this country and neither do I.
I couldn't agree with you more Tholo. I guess Americans just love negativity. I don't know where it all comes from, but I think the 24 hour news cycle has definitely made things worse. Being bombarded with negativity 24 hours a day seems to get to a lot of people. We are living in one of the most hopeful ,prosperous, and just times in American history and over 50% of the population thinks things are going to hell. I just don't see it, even though the media and many here try to point it out to me every day.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tholo:
If we dont stand our ground in Iraq, then all the troops who died, died for nothing...
This kind of schoolyard morality is what got us into that mess in the first place. Unfortunately they did die for nothing. I'm guessing that, to you, that will sound like an insult to the troops, which of course it isn't. I have the deepest respect for the people who sign up to risk their very lives to protect me and mine. That's why it pisses me off when we send them off on foolish, no-win missions.
Lots of them are beginning to realize it too. The amount of donations from military people supporting Ron Paul's campaign is perhaps the most honest appraisal of what the troops think of the war.(he's received more than any candidate, Democrat or Republican) Money talks. They're living through the direct repercussions of our leader's ignorance and hubris.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:And how did Hero know that Che is my idol?
Wow - where on Earth did you find that picture of Hero's cubicle?
Typical hypocrisy of a liberal. Hates Bush with a passion, but loves murderous commie bastard.
"Guevara was assigned the role of "supreme prosecutor", overseeing the public show trials and executions of hundreds of military and civilian leaders associated with the previous regime"
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Quote:WHOOOAAA, dude.
Typical hypocrisy of a liberal. Hates Bush with a passion, but loves murderous commie bastard
And they talk about humorless liberals?---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:WHOOOAAA, dude.
Typical hypocrisy of a liberal. Hates Bush with a passion, but loves murderous commie bastard
---------------------------------
B]
Oh, I get it, Earth humor. Ark,Ark...
Nanu-Nanu!
Kirkules
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:Quote:
Originally posted by Tholo:
If we dont stand our ground in Iraq, then all the troops who died, died for nothing...
This kind of schoolyard morality is what got us into that mess in the first place. Unfortunately they did die for nothing. I'm guessing that, to you, that will sound like an insult to the troops, which of course it isn't. I have the deepest respect for the people who sign up to risk their very lives to protect me and mine. That's why it pisses me off when we send them off on foolish, no-win missions.
Lots of them are beginning to realize it too. The amount of donations from military people supporting Ron Paul's campaign is perhaps the most honest appraisal of what the troops think of the war.(he's received more than any candidate, Democrat or Republican) Money talks. They're living through the direct repercussions of our leader's ignorance and hubris.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
"This kind of schoolyard morality is what got us into that mess in the first place." hehehe I think it is funny how Dem/Libs always worry about how people feel and then when called on a point, instead of talking about the subject, they have to resort to name calling. schoolyard, give me a break. "Schoolyard morality" didnt start this, the terrorist did on 9/11.
You tell me when and where, and I want to see you tell that to a soldier. Why is this war a "no-win"?. Do you think George Washington said that during the Revolution? Do you think Patton said that during WWII, to defeat Hitler who didnt bomb us by the way! We are providing Iraq with such simple things as running water, by helping build water plants that your poor Saddam(govt.) didnt want to turn on. They now have free news(God help them)which Saddam(govt.) didnt allow
To quote from the Dems/Libs favorite front man. "Ask not what your country can DO FOR YOU, Ask what YOU CAN DO for your country"
Which is the opposite of what DEM/Libs want. They want more goverment(Saddam) in our lives as much as they can.
Well if you want the country to take care of you(what your country can do for you) then go live in China/Russia(hell pick one they all want to come here) and see how you like it?
If a country is starving , who does the world look to, to stop it. USA! If a country is flooded by a tidewave what country does the world look to, to stop it. USA! If we did nothing, wow
If Saddam takes over a country and burns the oil fields who does the world look to, to stop it. USA
Saddam was asked many times by both Bush/CLINTON/Bush to stop doing what he was doing and he didnt listen. But then 9/11 comes and kills 4000 Americans and we are suppose to worry about "schoolyard morality" ????
Tell that to a Peal Harbor vet or a family member of 9/11 and see what happens. I guess the terrorist had a "schoolyard morality"
What kind of "morality" did they have?
This country is not perfect. But I can think of no other place in the world to be so proud of.
Keep Flying!!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:Quote:
Originally posted by Tholo:Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
I think that, at least with Obama in office, I would actually be able to sit through a speech given by the President of the United States....
I've resisted the idea that this should matter at all for a long time. But I think that presidents can fill a valuable role as a 'spokesperson' for their country. Not only when representing us to the rest of the world, but in being able inspire the nation.
By some accounts, JFK wasn't much of a president. But he'll remain one of the most beloved presidents because he had the ability to make the nation feel good about itself - something we desperately need after the last seven years. That's why, regardless of the fact that I disagree with his political ideology almost 100%, I'm thinking Obama could be a decent president, at least better than Clinton or McCain.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
This country doesnt feel good about itself?? Why cause we "choose to feel bad" (like Bush had everything to do with that, forgot about 9/11, huh)about this country? I still fly my flag everyday. I love this country. If you say Iraq makes us feel bad, I disagree. We are doing good things in Iraq, the media "chooses" to show it as a bad place. yea, war is hell, I agree. But compaired to what they had before, it is a lot better. They have something they have never had before, which we take forgranted, Freedom.
If we dont stand our ground in Iraq, then all the troops who died, died for nothing. you can say what you want(but then again this is America) but those troops over there dont feel bad about this country and neither do I.
I couldn't agree with you more Tholo. I guess Americans just love negativity. I don't know where it all comes from, but I think the 24 hour news cycle has definitely made things worse. Being bombarded with negativity 24 hours a day seems to get to a lot of people. We are living in one of the most hopeful ,prosperous, and just times in American history and over 50% of the population thinks things are going to hell. I just don't see it, even though the media and many here try to point it out to me every day.
Thank you , I thought I was all alone in the Verse. It's good to find someone from the same battalion.
Shiney
Keep Flying!!
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I see the rightwingnuts have dug up their own brand of PN...
Sadly, there's nothing I can say to make that rant look even one whit dumber than it already is... I hate it when they do my job for me, really I do.
Btw - Conyers is pitching a hissy about being unable to use his phone or fax for all the people bitching his wimpy ass out: keep it up.
-F
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It really scares the shit out of me that the only thing keeping a Muslim out of office of the President of the United states is the possible racism showing itself at the polls in November and the only possible outcome of a win over Obama would be McCain and Big Brother right behind him. And at least 8 more years of this pointless war....
R.I.P. Freedom, either way....
I take no solace in the fact that Obama speaks well and looks good in a suit.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
It really scares the shit out of me that the only thing keeping a Muslim out of office of the President of the United states is the possible racism showing itself at the polls in November and the only possible outcome of a win over Obama would be McCain and Big Brother right behind him. And at least 8 more years of this pointless war....
R.I.P. Freedom, either way....
I take no solace in the fact that Obama speaks well and looks good in a suit.
You can't simply dismiss Obama so casually. Right now, he is becoming the Messiah for many in America. He is not giving many specifics now, and that is probably political genius. His first job is to get Hillary out of the way, then he'll take on McCain. But he is filling arenas with 20,000 young white middle-class voters, he's raising a million a day or more. He is delivering a message of "hope", and a lot of people either need that now, or are willing to elect a man on "faith". Faith that all will play out for the good. If he becomes President he will meet with his NSA, and Joint Chiefs, and Sec of Defense...he will see and hopefully understand the threats our country and friends face every day...he 'aint gonna be the same Obama as he is during the campaign...he'll become a President, and hopefully a good one. If my taxes go up $ 20 a week, and down the line Gay marriage becomes law of the land, I see that (for me) as a small price to pay if this man can restore America's greatness and respect in the world. I'm surprised at you 6ixstring..all you ever seem to do is bitch, and whine, and complain, and go woe is me. I would think that you would give the guy a chance. Those here that know my posts know that I'm a Republican most of my life, but I cannot vote for McCain. I am sick of the political fighting, and all the bitter hatred that Bush brought down on Americans through the media. We need some healing and bi-partisonship progress in this country. I will "suspend" my dis-belief and support Obama if he's the nominee. I don't wanna go thru another 16 years of personal attacks and hatred and petty political bullshit that has dominated the landscape through the Clinton / Bush years. If I can put faith in Obama, anybody can.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
It really scares the shit out of me that the only thing keeping a Muslim out of office of the President of the United states is the possible racism showing itself
He's not a Muslim.
Perhaps its racist to think that a man's name, color, and pre-school determine his faith for life.
He claims to be a Christian, he was raised Christian, he attends a Christian church. Huckabee makes the same claims...are you saying Huckabee is a Muslim?
H
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I'm kinda not getting where people are getting this whole "Obama is a wimp" thing and how it pertains to much of anything.
Bush ran as a wimp in 2000.
Clinton ran on virtually the same message as Obama.
Neither man has proven to be afraid to murder foreigners.
Is it just post-9/11 dementia that demands that anyone running for President growl at the microphone or risk being proclaimed unfit to rule--erm, ahem, I mean, serve? Isn't that just a different version of "schoolyard morality?"
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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>If a country is starving , who does the world look to, to stop it. USA! If a country is flooded by a tidewave what country does the world look to, to stop it. USA! If we did nothing, wow
And what happens when the US gives and gives and gives? They get criticized by the world that they didn't give ENOUGH.
This country is not the world's policeman.
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
It really scares the shit out of me that the only thing keeping a Muslim out of office of the President of the United states is the possible racism showing itself
He's not a Muslim.
Perhaps its racist to think that a man's name, color, and pre-school determine his faith for life.
He claims to be a Christian, he was raised Christian, he attends a Christian church. Huckabee makes the same claims...are you saying Huckabee is a Muslim?
H
Thank you, Hero, for saying what I was about to say but a bit less nicely.
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I see the rightwingnuts have dug up their own brand of PN...
Sadly, there's nothing I can say to make that rant look even one whit dumber than it already is... I hate it when they do my job for me, really I do.
Btw - Conyers is pitching a hissy about being unable to use his phone or fax for all the people bitching his wimpy ass out: keep it up.
-F
hahahahahaha, back to the name calling hahahahahaha
i love it.
Keep Flying!!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
It really scares the shit out of me that the only thing keeping a Muslim out of office of the President of the United states is the possible racism showing itself
He's not a Muslim.
Perhaps its racist to think that a man's name, color, and pre-school determine his faith for life.
He claims to be a Christian, he was raised Christian, he attends a Christian church. Huckabee makes the same claims...are you saying Huckabee is a Muslim?
H
He rejected the Muslim faith when he started to run for office. His middlename is Hussianm, and he quit using it when started to run for office.
I think deep down he still is Muslim, you wait if he wins , he will have a revert to Muslim.
Keep Flying!!
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Quote:Oh no! And John McCain has an Irish name so he must be taking orders from the Pope! We're all doomed!
Originally posted by Tholo:
He rejected the Muslim faith when he started to run for office. His middlename is Hussianm, and he quit using it when started to run for office.
I think deep down he still is Muslim, you wait if he wins , he will have a revert to Muslim.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:Quote:Oh no! And John McCain has an Irish name so he must be taking orders from the Pope! We're all doomed!
Originally posted by Tholo:
He rejected the Muslim faith when he started to run for office. His middlename is Hussianm, and he quit using it when started to run for office.
I think deep down he still is Muslim, you wait if he wins , he will have a revert to Muslim.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
Yea, but he didnt change his religon to suite the (P.C.)crowd. That right there ought to tell you what kind of man Obama is. a man with no integrity. he changed his name because he knew he would have no chance in hell of getting elected with a muslim faith and a middle name like hussian, not in this climate. if it's not that big a deal for americans then why change it. heheeh.
he is a lying about himself and if he will do that ,then i dont want him, sorry.
Keep Flying!!
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Quote:
Yea, but he didnt change his religon to suite the (P.C.)crowd. That right there ought to tell you what kind of man Obama is. a man with no integrity. he changed his name because he knew he would have no chance in hell of getting elected with a muslim faith and a middle name like hussian, not in this climate. if it's not that big a deal for americans then why change it. heheeh.
Yeeesh, talk about name-calling. You're actually bagging on Obama because of his middle name, which HE DIDN'T CHOOSE FOR HIMSELF! And you claim that he "converted" just before his run for office. So you're saying that George Bush isn't fit to be President, correct? After all, he only became a bible-thumper when he decided to stop doing coke, whoring around and driving drunk and make a run for office.
And besides, what if Obama really WERE a Muslim? Would that be inherently evil? Supposed "christians" have spilled far more blood in the name of their religion than have Muslims, or any other faith for that matter. When did being an alleged christian automatically get you a pass on just being a decent human being?
Stupid people shouldn't breed.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tholo:Quote:
I think deep down he still is Muslim, you wait if he wins , he will have a revert to Muslim.
Betcha half-a-dollar?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Yea, but he didnt change his religon to suite the (P.C.)crowd. That right there ought to tell you what kind of man Obama is. a man with no integrity. he changed his name because he knew he would have no chance in hell of getting elected with a muslim faith and a middle name like hussian, not in this climate. if it's not that big a deal for americans then why change it. heheeh.
Yeeesh, talk about name-calling. You're actually bagging on Obama because of his middle name, which HE DIDN'T CHOOSE FOR HIMSELF! And you claim that he "converted" just before his run for office. So you're saying that George Bush isn't fit to be President, correct? After all, he only became a bible-thumper when he decided to stop doing coke, whoring around and driving drunk and make a run for office.
And besides, what if Obama really WERE a Muslim? Would that be inherently evil? Supposed "christians" have spilled far more blood in the name of their religion than have Muslims, or any other faith for that matter. When did being an alleged christian automatically get you a pass on just being a decent human being?
Stupid people shouldn't breed.
Then why did he change?
I didnt call him any names? what are you talking about? I never said muslems were evil, your ducking the subject, he must feel its evil to change his what he belives in?
yea like clinton didnt whore around, why not mention him in all the bad mouthing? where is the name calling for clinton? come man use a little logic here. "those without sin my cast the first stone."
"some" of those Bush alligations are rumors anyway, set up by the media who are Dems anyway.
why do you think they are not bring up Obama's middle name and muslim upbringing. that would mean bad press for him, and we cant have that, i dont trust katie curic.
Keep Flying!!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tholo:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Yea, but he didnt change his religon to suite the (P.C.)crowd. That right there ought to tell you what kind of man Obama is. a man with no integrity. he changed his name because he knew he would have no chance in hell of getting elected with a muslim faith and a middle name like hussian, not in this climate. if it's not that big a deal for americans then why change it. heheeh.
Yeeesh, talk about name-calling. You're actually bagging on Obama because of his middle name, which HE DIDN'T CHOOSE FOR HIMSELF! And you claim that he "converted" just before his run for office. So you're saying that George Bush isn't fit to be President, correct? After all, he only became a bible-thumper when he decided to stop doing coke, whoring around and driving drunk and make a run for office.
And besides, what if Obama really WERE a Muslim? Would that be inherently evil? Supposed "christians" have spilled far more blood in the name of their religion than have Muslims, or any other faith for that matter. When did being an alleged christian automatically get you a pass on just being a decent human being?
Stupid people shouldn't breed.
Then why did he change?
I didnt call him any names? what are you talking about? I never said muslems were evil, your ducking the subject, he must feel its evil to change his what he belives in?
yea like clinton didnt whore around, why not mention him in all the bad mouthing? where is the name calling for clinton? come man use a little logic here. "those without sin my cast the first stone."
"some" of those Bush alligations are rumors anyway, set up by the media who are Dems anyway.
why do you think they are not bring up Obama's middle name and muslim upbringing. that would mean bad press for him, and we cant have that, i dont trust katie curic.
Clinton absolutely whored around. Dude got more ass than a toilet seat. Personally, I don't have a big problem with that as such, only with his choice of "babes". Let's face it, Clinton is no Jack Kennedy. Kennedy at least had the decency to bang Marilyn Monroe; Clinton settled for - gag - Paula Jones, Gennifer Flowers, and a fat intern.
The media are all "Dems", huh? That may come as a bit of a shock to Roger Ailes, Bill Orally, Rush Limbaugh, et al.
You say you're not name-calling, yet you continually call Obama a Muslim as if that's a bad name. And you continually bring up his middle name for the same reason. If that's not name-calling, what is it, exactly? What are you, seven years old? I'd dearly love to fight a battle of wits with you, but unfortunately you've come completely unarmed.
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From Wikipedia:
Quote:
Husayn, Hussein, Hussain, Husain, Hosein (Arabic:حسین), is an Arabic name which is the diminutive of Hasan, meaning "good" or "handsome". It is commonly given as a male given name among Muslims, after Husayn ibn Ali. In some Persian sources the form Háosayn is used [1]. In Turkish it is Hüseyin.
Well, that absolutely, beyond a doubt PROVES that he's the evil bastard son of Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein (or, as the Rethuglicans think of them, the one single person who represents every single Muslim: O'Saddama).
Or, it just COULD be that the middle name of Hussein was chosen because it's an Arabic word for "handsome" or "good".
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by Tholo:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Yea, but he didnt change his religon to suite the (P.C.)crowd. That right there ought to tell you what kind of man Obama is. a man with no integrity. he changed his name because he knew he would have no chance in hell of getting elected with a muslim faith and a middle name like hussian, not in this climate. if it's not that big a deal for americans then why change it. heheeh.
Yeeesh, talk about name-calling. You're actually bagging on Obama because of his middle name, which HE DIDN'T CHOOSE FOR HIMSELF! And you claim that he "converted" just before his run for office. So you're saying that George Bush isn't fit to be President, correct? After all, he only became a bible-thumper when he decided to stop doing coke, whoring around and driving drunk and make a run for office.
And besides, what if Obama really WERE a Muslim? Would that be inherently evil? Supposed "christians" have spilled far more blood in the name of their religion than have Muslims, or any other faith for that matter. When did being an alleged christian automatically get you a pass on just being a decent human being?
Stupid people shouldn't breed.
Then why did he change?
I didnt call him any names? what are you talking about? I never said muslems were evil, your ducking the subject, he must feel its evil to change his what he belives in?
yea like clinton didnt whore around, why not mention him in all the bad mouthing? where is the name calling for clinton? come man use a little logic here. "those without sin my cast the first stone."
"some" of those Bush alligations are rumors anyway, set up by the media who are Dems anyway.
why do you think they are not bring up Obama's middle name and muslim upbringing. that would mean bad press for him, and we cant have that, i dont trust katie curic.
Clinton absolutely whored around. Dude got more ass than a toilet seat. Personally, I don't have a big problem with that as such, only with his choice of "babes". Let's face it, Clinton is no Jack Kennedy. Kennedy at least had the decency to bang Marilyn Monroe; Clinton settled for - gag - Paula Jones, Gennifer Flowers, and a fat intern.
The media are all "Dems", huh? That may come as a bit of a shock to Roger Ailes, Bill Orally, Rush Limbaugh, et al.
You say you're not name-calling, yet you continually call Obama a Muslim as if that's a bad name. And you continually bring up his middle name for the same reason. If that's not name-calling, what is it, exactly? What are you, seven years old? I'd dearly love to fight a battle of wits with you, but unfortunately you've come completely unarmed.
ohhhhh. i am not calling him a name sir. i am stating a FACT.
Was he not a Muslim!!! Yes he was and changed it to get votes. Why is that "namecalling"
IS his middle name not Hussian!!!!! Yes, he removed it to get votes,
Why is that "namecalling"
you sir are unarmed.
Keep Flying!!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
From Wikipedia:Quote:
Husayn, Hussein, Hussain, Husain, Hosein (Arabic:حسین), is an Arabic name which is the diminutive of Hasan, meaning "good" or "handsome". It is commonly given as a male given name among Muslims, after Husayn ibn Ali. In some Persian sources the form Háosayn is used [1]. In Turkish it is Hüseyin.
Well, that absolutely, beyond a doubt PROVES that he's the evil bastard son of Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein (or, as the Rethuglicans think of them, the one single person who represents every single Muslim: O'Saddama).
Or, it just COULD be that the middle name of Hussein was chosen because it's an Arabic word for "handsome" or "good".
Good Gosh, I didnt say he was involved with those terrorist. I just stated that he REMOVED them from the public eye, to get votes. Nor did I say the name hussian was a bad word.
Keep Flying!!
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Lots of people remove things from the public eye when they are running for office. The American public WANTS some level of dishonesty from their candidates. They don't want confessions up there on the podium.
Barack Obama isn't any more dishonest than any other candidate. Anyone could easily find "dirt" that any other candidate has chosen to hide when they decided to run. And usually, that dirt is more damaging than having an arabic middle name.
I won't vote for any of them. But if I had to, I would vote for Obama even if his name were Iraq Hussein Osama. And I would do it happily over either Shrillary Billary or McInsane McCane.
--------------------------
The only tyrant I accept in this world is the still voice within.
-Mahatma Gandhi
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Quote:
ohhhhh. i am not calling him a name sir. i am stating a FACT.
Was he not a Muslim!!! Yes he was and changed it to get votes. Why is that "namecalling"
IS his middle name not Hussian!!!!! Yes, he removed it to get votes,
Why is that "namecalling"
you sir are unarmed.
1) I've never seen one scintilla of evidence that Barack Obama was *ever* a practicing Muslim. You are stating that it is a "FACT", with no evidence at all to back that up. I'm asking you to supply evidence - where did you get that he is, was, or ever has been a Muslim?
2) No, his middle name is NOT "Hussian". Plain and simple fact, it's not. It's "Hussein".
I think my biggest problem with the fucknuts on the right is the *way* they say it, which is simply a way of namecalling. They imply, by word and tone, that they quite simply don't approve of any person of any color other than lily white, and ESPECIALLY not of any person named (and they always say it with particular venom in the inflection, like a fire-n-brimstone baptist youth molester - er, I mean youth minister) "Bah-Rock-Ah Hew-SAYN Ohh-Bamm-Er" having the gall to run for President of these United States.
And the way these people say the word "Musllim" is like they have a mouthful of shit when they say it. I'm not crazy about Muslims, but I'm not crazy about Christians or any other religious group, either. To me, they are ALL equally deluded, equally indoctrinated into their respective cults, and equally feeble-minded. But to imply, by word and tone, that a Muslim isn't fit to lead our country is to go absolutely counter to our very Constitution and its guarantee of freedom of religion. How very fucking American of you...
Those on the right, and you, seem to be inferring things from Obama's name that simply aren't backed up by any evidence I've been able to find, or you've been able to provide. It's like me saying that Bush is categorically proven to be a complete and utter pussy simply because his last name is Bush. I mean, granted, he IS a giant pussy, but that comes more from his background as a coward and a deserter, not necessarily from his family name. I guess we should have known from his middle name that George WALKER Bush would run away from any hint of battle - at least any kind of battle that could result in HIM being sent to war.
And Karl Rove? Obviously a devout communist. Look at the way he spells his first name - Karl, just like Marx.
You're right - playing games with peoples' names and inferring things about their character from their name IS a lot of fun. Don't even get me started on Huckabee.
The so-called christian right is neither.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I think my biggest problem with the fucknuts on the right ....
To me, they are ALL equally deluded, equally indoctrinated into their respective cults, and equally feeble-minded.
I mean, granted, he IS a giant pussy, but that comes more from his background as a coward and a deserter, not necessarily from his family name.
The so-called christian right is neither.
All you're doing is name calling & flaming at the same time. In a few short sentences you've managed to hurl insults at about 95% of all Americans. Congrats! You're today's winner...so far.
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Quote:And you have proof of this?
Was he not a Muslim!!! Yes he was and changed it to get votes.
Both he and his campaign have repeated stated that he is not, NOR EVER WAS, a Muslim. Where are you getting this idea that he once was a muslim? Do you, or anyone else, have proof? Can you produce photos of him or eyewitness reports of his attending a mosque, reading the Koran, making a pilgrimage to Mecca, observing the Ramadan, or observing his daily prayers before he ran for office?
It is customary for people who accuse other people of lying to produce proof. Otherwise, groundless direct accusations are themselves lies.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim.htm
--------------------------
When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.
--P. J. O'Rourke
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Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:And you have proof of this?
Was he not a Muslim!!! Yes he was and changed it to get votes.
Both he and his campaign have repeated stated that he is not, NOR EVER WAS, a Muslim. Where are you getting this idea that he once was a muslim? Do you, or anyone else, have proof? Can you produce photos of him or eyewitness reports of his attending a mosque, reading the Koran, making a pilgrimage to Mecca, observing the Ramadan, or observing his daily prayers before he ran for office?
It is customary for people who accuse other people of lying to produce proof. Otherwise, groundless direct accusations are themselves lies.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim.htm
--------------------------
When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.
--P. J. O'Rourke
hhaha look at the poll results. about half way down the article.
Keep Flying!!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
ohhhhh. i am not calling him a name sir. i am stating a FACT.
Was he not a Muslim!!! Yes he was and changed it to get votes. Why is that "namecalling"
IS his middle name not Hussian!!!!! Yes, he removed it to get votes,
Why is that "namecalling"
you sir are unarmed.
1) I've never seen one scintilla of evidence that Barack Obama was *ever* a practicing Muslim. You are stating that it is a "FACT", with no evidence at all to back that up. I'm asking you to supply evidence - where did you get that he is, was, or ever has been a Muslim?
2) No, his middle name is NOT "Hussian". Plain and simple fact, it's not. It's "Hussein".
I think my biggest problem with the fucknuts on the right is the *way* they say it, which is simply a way of namecalling. They imply, by word and tone, that they quite simply don't approve of any person of any color other than lily white, and ESPECIALLY not of any person named (and they always say it with particular venom in the inflection, like a fire-n-brimstone baptist youth molester - er, I mean youth minister) "Bah-Rock-Ah Hew-SAYN Ohh-Bamm-Er" having the gall to run for President of these United States.
And the way these people say the word "Musllim" is like they have a mouthful of shit when they say it. I'm not crazy about Muslims, but I'm not crazy about Christians or any other religious group, either. To me, they are ALL equally deluded, equally indoctrinated into their respective cults, and equally feeble-minded. But to imply, by word and tone, that a Muslim isn't fit to lead our country is to go absolutely counter to our very Constitution and its guarantee of freedom of religion. How very fucking American of you...
Those on the right, and you, seem to be inferring things from Obama's name that simply aren't backed up by any evidence I've been able to find, or you've been able to provide. It's like me saying that Bush is categorically proven to be a complete and utter pussy simply because his last name is Bush. I mean, granted, he IS a giant pussy, but that comes more from his background as a coward and a deserter, not necessarily from his family name. I guess we should have known from his middle name that George WALKER Bush would run away from any hint of battle - at least any kind of battle that could result in HIM being sent to war.
And Karl Rove? Obviously a devout communist. Look at the way he spells his first name - Karl, just like Marx.
You're right - playing games with peoples' names and inferring things about their character from their name IS a lot of fun. Don't even get me started on Huckabee.
The so-called christian right is neither.
proof , heck just look toward the top of the board and look at the pic. ok so I cant "Hussein". I can admit it.
Thanks for all the good curse words and name calling mainly on Bush and myself. Imagine if I were to say the same thing as you did about Obama.
You sir, are not worth my time. Goodbye
Keep Flying!!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
It really scares the shit out of me that the only thing keeping a Muslim out of office of the President of the United states is the possible racism showing itself at the polls in November and the only possible outcome of a win over Obama would be McCain and Big Brother right behind him. And at least 8 more years of this pointless war....
R.I.P. Freedom, either way....
I take no solace in the fact that Obama speaks well and looks good in a suit.
You can't simply dismiss Obama so casually. Right now, he is becoming the Messiah for many in America. He is not giving many specifics now, and that is probably political genius. His first job is to get Hillary out of the way, then he'll take on McCain. But he is filling arenas with 20,000 young white middle-class voters, he's raising a million a day or more. He is delivering a message of "hope", and a lot of people either need that now, or are willing to elect a man on "faith". Faith that all will play out for the good. If he becomes President he will meet with his NSA, and Joint Chiefs, and Sec of Defense...he will see and hopefully understand the threats our country and friends face every day...he 'aint gonna be the same Obama as he is during the campaign...he'll become a President, and hopefully a good one. If my taxes go up $ 20 a week, and down the line Gay marriage becomes law of the land, I see that (for me) as a small price to pay if this man can restore America's greatness and respect in the world. I'm surprised at you 6ixstring..all you ever seem to do is bitch, and whine, and complain, and go woe is me. I would think that you would give the guy a chance. Those here that know my posts know that I'm a Republican most of my life, but I cannot vote for McCain. I am sick of the political fighting, and all the bitter hatred that Bush brought down on Americans through the media. We need some healing and bi-partisonship progress in this country. I will "suspend" my dis-belief and support Obama if he's the nominee. I don't wanna go thru another 16 years of personal attacks and hatred and petty political bullshit that has dominated the landscape through the Clinton / Bush years. If I can put faith in Obama, anybody can.
Is it just me, or does anybody else think that Body Snatchers have gotten to Jong.
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Quote:And that is proof that he is a Muslim? Because 49% of an anonymous internet poll think he is Muslim?
Originally posted by Tholo:
hhaha look at the poll results. about half way down the article.
Please answer the question. Where is your proof that he was a Muslim before he ran for office?
--------------------------
It is easier to stay out than get out.
--Mark Twain
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Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:And that is proof that he is a Muslim? Because 49% of an anonymous internet poll think he is Muslim?
Originally posted by Tholo:
hhaha look at the poll results. about half way down the article.
Please answer the question. Where is your proof that he was a Muslim before he ran for office?
--------------------------
It is easier to stay out than get out.
--Mark Twain
never said it was proof, just thought it was funny.
What will you accept as proof? CNN,CBS, ABC, FOX, or what? I have found that the proof is in the pudding. Playing the proof war is a waste of time, I can look for hours and never find proof good enough for anyone on this board.
What will you call proof? His own camp? yea sure they will admit it? Not during an election, they won't.
Once again I will find proof, but I think it is a waste of time on message boards.
Keep Flying!!
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The voices in his head told Tholo.
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
The voices in his head told Tholo.
Got anything topical Signy?
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Quote:
All you're doing is name calling & flaming at the same time. In a few short sentences you've managed to hurl insults at about 95% of all Americans. Congrats! You're today's winner...so far.
Awwww, c'mon... only 95% of all Americans are offended? Man, I must be slipping...
Some of you people just seriously don't *get* satire, do you? Oh yeah, you're the same folks who invited Stephen Colbert to the White House Correspondents Dinner, thinking he was one of you!
Things that are bugging me, in this thread and others. Some are mistruths, some are half-truths, and some are just damned lies:
1) In the Muslim-cartoon thread, it's pointed out that to be a Muslim all you have to do is "grab a rug and live in the stone age". It's also pointed out that the vast majority of Middle Easterners are Neanderthals who are too thin-skinned to tolerate others simply poking fun at their prophet.
2) People who are *supposedly* "patriots", and who profess to love this country above all others and to love our freedoms, will in the same breath (and utterly without irony) go on and on about how they could *never* vote for a Muslim, because we all know that "freedom of religion" in this country really means "free to be a christian".
In the spirit of all that, just allow me to say that your christ and your god are mere cumstains on the fabric of the universe. Hey, don't go gettin all offended-like! That would be narrow-minded of you! Besides, according to your book, Jeebus would forgive me anyway, so you're wasting your time.
Quote:
Typical hypocrisy of a liberal. Hates Bush with a passion, but loves murderous commie bastard.
Typical hypocrisy of a thug - claims to hate despots with a passion, but loves murderous christo-fascist bastards like Bush & Co.
Quote:
...to defeat Hitler who didnt bomb us by the way!
Check into your history a bit. Remember the Axis powers of WWII? Those three countries that had signed mutual-defense treaties with each other? Germany, Japan, and Italy. The treaties said that if any nation declared war on one of the Axis nations, ALL the Axis nations would declare war on that nation.
Hence, when on December 8, 1941, Congress declared war on Japan, Hitler in turn declared war on America, honoring his part of the treaty.
Somehow, I just don't think your analogy is appropriate. Al-Qaeda attacked us, and we in turn basically declared war on the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. Right up until this point, I had no problem with Bush or his response to 9/11, except that it took too long coming.
But then a funny thing happened - or rather, DIDN'T happen: Iraq specifically DID NOT declare war on us, or do anything at all, other than rattle his sword in our general direction in order to show off to the rest of the Middle East what a big bad-ass he was. And Bush was the only sonofabitch dumb enough to buy his act; Saddam was utterly and completely boxed in and contained; he was no threat to us whatsoever, and he wasn't even on speaking terms with Al-Qaeda. Everyone except Bush and that utterly deluded 20% of people who still support seems to have figured this out now, with or without the help of the media. Only a complete dipshit like Dickless Cheney still maintains that there was some sort of vague phantom link between Saddam & Osama.
Jesus is coming; get him a towel.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tholo:Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:And that is proof that he is a Muslim? Because 49% of an anonymous internet poll think he is Muslim?
Originally posted by Tholo:
hhaha look at the poll results. about half way down the article.
Please answer the question. Where is your proof that he was a Muslim before he ran for office?
--------------------------
It is easier to stay out than get out.
--Mark Twain
never said it was proof, just thought it was funny.
What will you accept as proof? CNN,CBS, ABC, FOX, or what? I have found that the proof is in the pudding. Playing the proof war is a waste of time, I can look for hours and never find proof good enough for anyone on this board.
What will you call proof? His own camp? yea sure they will admit it? Not during an election, they won't.
Once again I will find proof, but I think it is a waste of time on message boards.
Keep Flying!!
A recent poll shows that 68% of Americans think Bush is doing a terrible job, and less than 25% approve of his performance. Does this *prove* to you that he's the worst President in US history?
The polls in Florida in 2000 showed that Al Gore won the Presidency. Does that *prove* to you that Bush isn't the President?
Didn't think so. So pardon the rest of us if we don't take a poll as "proof".
Statistically, half the people in the country are in the bottom half of the nation's population, in average intelligence. And they tend to vote Republican.
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I realize some people feel that repubicans and democrats are exactly the same. So here is a list of senators who voted for and against retroactive immunity for corporations that illegally helped the government illegally spy on 10% of US citizens:
48 of 49 repubicans voted for the bill
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY) Senate minority leader
Murkowski (R-AK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Wicker (R-MS)
0 repubicans out of 49 voted against the bill
1 repubican out of 49 did not vote
Graham (R-SC)
19 of 49 democrats voted for the bill
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Inouye (D-HI)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
28 of 49 democrats voted against the bill
Akaka (D-HI)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI) Senate majority leader
Reid (D-NV)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Wyden (D-OR)
2 democrats out of 49 did not vote
Clinton (D-NY)
Obama (D-IL)
1 of 1 I voted against the bill
Sanders (I-VT)
1 of 1 ID voted for the bill
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Not Voting - 3
It is illegal for the government to spy on US citizens without a warrant. It is also illegal for phone companies to tap or trace phone calls without a warrant.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Which make me wonder ...
and perhaps someone knows the answer ...
If the repubicans have 49 senators and the democrats have 49 as well - why do people say the democrats are a majority ?
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:What was the proof that convinced YOU? I may not agree that it is proof enough, but I would like to see what kind of proof was good enough for you.
Originally posted by Tholo:
I can look for hours and never find proof good enough for anyone on this board.
Thanks.
--------------------------
What the world needs is not dogma but an attitude of scientific inquiry combined with a belief that the torture of millions is not desirable, whether inflicted by Stalin or by a Deity imagined in the likeness of the believer.
--Bertrand Russell
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Who needs proof? Why bother, when you can just keep repeating the same BS over and over.
Didya all hear? Tholo eats babies.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I realize some people feel that repubicans and democrats are exactly the same. So here is a list of senators who voted for and against retroactive immunity for corporations that illegally helped the government illegally spy on 10% of US citizens:
48 of 49 repubicans voted for the bill
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY) Senate minority leader
Murkowski (R-AK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Wicker (R-MS)
0 repubicans out of 49 voted against the bill
1 repubican out of 49 did not vote
Graham (R-SC)
19 of 49 democrats voted for the bill
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Inouye (D-HI)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
28 of 49 democrats voted against the bill
Akaka (D-HI)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI) Senate majority leader
Reid (D-NV)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Wyden (D-OR)
2 democrats out of 49 did not vote
Clinton (D-NY)
Obama (D-IL)
1 of 1 I voted against the bill
Sanders (I-VT)
1 of 1 ID voted for the bill
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Not Voting - 3
It is illegal for the government to spy on US citizens without a warrant. It is also illegal for phone companies to tap or trace phone calls without a warrant.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
"It is illegal for the government to spy on US citizens without a warrant. It is also illegal for phone companies to tap or trace phone calls without a warrant."
Tell that to Tivo.
Keep Flying!!
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Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:What was the proof that convinced YOU? I may not agree that it is proof enough, but I would like to see what kind of proof was good enough for you.
Originally posted by Tholo:
I can look for hours and never find proof good enough for anyone on this board.
Thanks.
--------------------------
What the world needs is not dogma but an attitude of scientific inquiry combined with a belief that the torture of millions is not desirable, whether inflicted by Stalin or by a Deity imagined in the likeness of the believer.
--Bertrand Russell
It dont matter, I eat babies.
Keep Flying!!
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Tholo, why do you refuse to answer? It is a simple question. What convinced you that Obama was a Muslim before running for office?
--------------------------
Take the diplomacy out of war and the thing would fall flat in a week.
--Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)
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One I know of is few years ago when he was "thinking" about running for office one of the morning news shows did a story on him and stated he was formly Musleim and they would like to see if he would drop his middle name and he has done that.
Thats one for now.
Keep Flying!!
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Thank you. See, that wasn't so hard!
I would like to hear more if you care to share.
--------------------------
In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted.
-- Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
It really scares the shit out of me that the only thing keeping a Muslim out of office of the President of the United states is the possible racism showing itself at the polls in November and the only possible outcome of a win over Obama would be McCain and Big Brother right behind him. And at least 8 more years of this pointless war....
R.I.P. Freedom, either way....
I take no solace in the fact that Obama speaks well and looks good in a suit.
You can't simply dismiss Obama so casually. Right now, he is becoming the Messiah for many in America. He is not giving many specifics now, and that is probably political genius. His first job is to get Hillary out of the way, then he'll take on McCain. But he is filling arenas with 20,000 young white middle-class voters, he's raising a million a day or more. He is delivering a message of "hope", and a lot of people either need that now, or are willing to elect a man on "faith". Faith that all will play out for the good. If he becomes President he will meet with his NSA, and Joint Chiefs, and Sec of Defense...he will see and hopefully understand the threats our country and friends face every day...he 'aint gonna be the same Obama as he is during the campaign...he'll become a President, and hopefully a good one. If my taxes go up $ 20 a week, and down the line Gay marriage becomes law of the land, I see that (for me) as a small price to pay if this man can restore America's greatness and respect in the world. I'm surprised at you 6ixstring..all you ever seem to do is bitch, and whine, and complain, and go woe is me. I would think that you would give the guy a chance. Those here that know my posts know that I'm a Republican most of my life, but I cannot vote for McCain. I am sick of the political fighting, and all the bitter hatred that Bush brought down on Americans through the media. We need some healing and bi-partisonship progress in this country. I will "suspend" my dis-belief and support Obama if he's the nominee. I don't wanna go thru another 16 years of personal attacks and hatred and petty political bullshit that has dominated the landscape through the Clinton / Bush years. If I can put faith in Obama, anybody can.
Is it just me, or does anybody else think that Body Snatchers have gotten to Jong.
Well, it looks like just you so far. But regardless of that, or anything else so witty you can come up with here, Mr. Obama IS going to be the next President. I suppose stating the reasons that I'll support him was a bad idea; the fact that John McCain has been a fucking Republican joke for 10 years, laughed at, scorned, ridiculed, and ultimately fucking despised by true Conservative Republicans..all this new-found love for him now makes me wanna puke! Screw him and the horse he rode in. Obama baby! The good 'ole USA needs a charismatic leader now...don't fret guy, he won't let the terrorists destroy our country. And for all the rest, after so many years of humiliating fuck-ups, I'm more than willing to have some hope and faith in a new way.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
In the spirit of all that, just allow me to say that your christ and your god are mere cumstains on the fabric of the universe. Hey, don't go gettin all offended-like! That would be narrow-minded of you! Besides, according to your book, Jeebus would forgive me anyway, so you're wasting your time.
This is pretty funny but your going to have to try a little harder if you want to offend most around here, we've heard it all before. Is there anything in this world you don't hate.
Quote:
Typical hypocrisy of a liberal. Hates Bush with a passion, but loves murderous commie bastard.
Quote:
Typical hypocrisy of a thug - claims to hate despots with a passion, but loves murderous christo-fascist bastards like Bush & Co.
The fact that I'm a hypocrite at times doesn't stop me from pointing it out in others.
Oh, and by the way
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
It really scares the shit out of me that the only thing keeping a Muslim out of office of the President of the United states is the possible racism showing itself at the polls in November and the only possible outcome of a win over Obama would be McCain and Big Brother right behind him. And at least 8 more years of this pointless war....
R.I.P. Freedom, either way....
I take no solace in the fact that Obama speaks well and looks good in a suit.
You can't simply dismiss Obama so casually. Right now, he is becoming the Messiah for many in America. He is not giving many specifics now, and that is probably political genius. His first job is to get Hillary out of the way, then he'll take on McCain. But he is filling arenas with 20,000 young white middle-class voters, he's raising a million a day or more. He is delivering a message of "hope", and a lot of people either need that now, or are willing to elect a man on "faith". Faith that all will play out for the good. If he becomes President he will meet with his NSA, and Joint Chiefs, and Sec of Defense...he will see and hopefully understand the threats our country and friends face every day...he 'aint gonna be the same Obama as he is during the campaign...he'll become a President, and hopefully a good one. If my taxes go up $ 20 a week, and down the line Gay marriage becomes law of the land, I see that (for me) as a small price to pay if this man can restore America's greatness and respect in the world. I'm surprised at you 6ixstring..all you ever seem to do is bitch, and whine, and complain, and go woe is me. I would think that you would give the guy a chance. Those here that know my posts know that I'm a Republican most of my life, but I cannot vote for McCain. I am sick of the political fighting, and all the bitter hatred that Bush brought down on Americans through the media. We need some healing and bi-partisonship progress in this country. I will "suspend" my dis-belief and support Obama if he's the nominee. I don't wanna go thru another 16 years of personal attacks and hatred and petty political bullshit that has dominated the landscape through the Clinton / Bush years. If I can put faith in Obama, anybody can.
Is it just me, or does anybody else think that Body Snatchers have gotten to Jong.
Well, it looks like just you so far. But regardless of that, or anything else so witty you can come up with here, Mr. Obama IS going to be the next President. I suppose stating the reasons that I'll support him was a bad idea; the fact that John McCain has been a fucking Republican joke for 10 years, laughed at, scorned, ridiculed, and ultimately fucking despised by true Conservative Republicans..all this new-found love for him now makes me wanna puke! Screw him and the horse he rode in on with his pal Ted Kennedy. Obama baby! The good 'ole USA needs a charismatic leader now...don't fret guy, he won't let the terrorists destroy our country. And for all the rest, after so many years of humiliating fuck-ups, I'm more than willing to have some hope and faith in a new way.
I guess the issues don't even matter to you anymore. It's differences on issues that brings out all this hatred in the first place. Obama's positions on the issues is what matters to me. If he tries to pursue even a fraction of what he claims to support, this country will be just as divided as ever under his leadership.
Sorry you didn't like my joke.
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I actually liked your joke....I called it witty, didn't I? And yes...to tell the truth...I almost don't care about the issues anymore. I believe this man has the ability to be a great President, and I cannot say that for McCain. Ideologies are irrelevant to me now. It's not that shocking to change one's outlook, is it?
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Also Kirkules....we have to sometimes be willing to accept and maybe even embrace change. I'm gonna be a grandfather in about a month, and lately all I think about even more than I have all my life is the future world for my children & grand-children. My time has come, maybe not totally gone at 55, but fading...it's a new world for them. They have a right to have the same hope & faith I had when I was young.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Also Kirkules....we have to sometimes be willing to accept and maybe even embrace change. I'm gonna be a grandfather in about a month, and lately all I think about even more than I have all my life is the future world for my children & grand-children. My time has come, maybe not totally gone at 55, but fading...it's a new world for them. They have a right to have the same hope & faith I had when I was young.
My daughter is a big Obama supporter and she has never really been that interested in politics. She's all starry eye and optimistic that he's going to change the world. I agree with her that he'll charge things dramatically, but I believe it will be for the worse. Given the Democrat constituency, is there any way they can fix Social Security and Medicare without doubling the tax rate. I personally don't want to burden our children and grand children with oppressive tax rates and huge unending government programs.
I hope you're right about Obama being a good President. I'll support him just like I support all Presidents when I can, because of my respect for the office.
I think one of the differences between you and me, is that you are a "true conservative Republican" and I am not. Most of the favorite social issues of the Republicans, like abortion, religion, stem cell research, gay marriage and illegal immigration, I could give a rats ass about. My reason for voting Republican is primarily because of economic policy issues. I would drop the Republicans in a second if the Dems would put forward a pro-growth, pro-2nd Amendment candidate. But that will never happen now with the far left running the Democrat party.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
It really scares the shit out of me that the only thing keeping a Muslim out of office of the President of the United states is the possible racism showing itself at the polls in November and the only possible outcome of a win over Obama would be McCain and Big Brother right behind him. And at least 8 more years of this pointless war....
R.I.P. Freedom, either way....
I take no solace in the fact that Obama speaks well and looks good in a suit.
You can't simply dismiss Obama so casually. Right now, he is becoming the Messiah for many in America. He is not giving many specifics now, and that is probably political genius. His first job is to get Hillary out of the way, then he'll take on McCain. But he is filling arenas with 20,000 young white middle-class voters, he's raising a million a day or more. He is delivering a message of "hope", and a lot of people either need that now, or are willing to elect a man on "faith". Faith that all will play out for the good. If he becomes President he will meet with his NSA, and Joint Chiefs, and Sec of Defense...he will see and hopefully understand the threats our country and friends face every day...he 'aint gonna be the same Obama as he is during the campaign...he'll become a President, and hopefully a good one. If my taxes go up $ 20 a week, and down the line Gay marriage becomes law of the land, I see that (for me) as a small price to pay if this man can restore America's greatness and respect in the world. I'm surprised at you 6ixstring..all you ever seem to do is bitch, and whine, and complain, and go woe is me. I would think that you would give the guy a chance. Those here that know my posts know that I'm a Republican most of my life, but I cannot vote for McCain. I am sick of the political fighting, and all the bitter hatred that Bush brought down on Americans through the media. We need some healing and bi-partisonship progress in this country. I will "suspend" my dis-belief and support Obama if he's the nominee. I don't wanna go thru another 16 years of personal attacks and hatred and petty political bullshit that has dominated the landscape through the Clinton / Bush years. If I can put faith in Obama, anybody can.
He is a wolf in sheeps's clothiing...
Caveat Emptor
That's about all I have to say about Obama
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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In the end, I don't think I will actively support Obama, though I do think he is preferable to McCain or Clinton.
Ultimately, I have to vote my conscience. I'll either vote Libertarian or write in Ron Paul. Or choose not to validate their little game by not voting at all.
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Quote:
He rejected the Muslim faith when he started to run for office. His middlename is Hussianm, and he quit using it when started to run for office.
I think deep down he still is Muslim, you wait if he wins , he will have a revert to Muslim.
I didn't say it.... but that is my assessment of the situation.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
My time has come, maybe not totally gone at 55, but fading...it's a new world for them.
It's even worse than I thought. Not Body Snatchers, the dreaded mid-life crisis. You just need a new Corvette dude.
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I can't believe you guys honestly buy this Muslim crap! Do you really believe that the DNC is so monumentally stupid as to put their money on a Muslim, been putting their money on this Muslim since before 2004 in THIS political climate? Are you crazy?
And besides, he ain't a Muslim. His father was a Muslim. His father abandoned his family when the boy was 3. Obama went to a madrassa for a couple years when he lived in Indonesia. He also attended a Catholic school for a while. The man ain't a Muslim. His mom ain't a Muslim and his mom raised him. His step-father was a bad muslim with liver problems from drinking--a very bad Muslim. Obama ain't a Muslim.
Your claim is bigoted nonsense.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Awww, I was watching this and giggling, and here you had to go and spike the Kool-Aid party with the awful light of truth.
*snicker*
Is it bad that I am pondering, perhaps some time in the future, dealing arms to both ends of our radical spectrum and watching them kill each other with morbid glee like some demented neo-kissinger ?
I figure we let em wipe each other out, and then pick off the "winners" and be done with the whole lot of em.
-F
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
I can't believe you guys honestly buy this Muslim crap! Do you really believe that the DNC is so monumentally stupid as to put their money on a Muslim, been putting their money on this Muslim since before 2004 in THIS political climate? Are you crazy?
And besides, he ain't a Muslim. His father was a Muslim. His father abandoned his family when the boy was 3. Obama went to a madrassa for a couple years when he lived in Indonesia. He also attended a Catholic school for a while. The man ain't a Muslim. His mom ain't a Muslim and his mom raised him. His step-father was a bad muslim with liver problems from drinking--a very bad Muslim. Obama ain't a Muslim.
Your claim is bigoted nonsense.
HKCavalier
He's too close to it for me HK. Too much of a shadow of a doubt, too much of a mysterious past, little to no experience, and he has too many global interests for my tastes. He is an evil I don't know and he has the silver tounge of the serpent.
Put another black man in and I'll vote for him. In fact, I may just write in Al Sharpton like Frem.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Is there anything in this world you don't hate.
Oh, sure. There's even stuff in this world that I *love*. One of those things is needling the easily-offended and thin-skinned.
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The fact that I'm a hypocrite at times doesn't stop me from pointing it out in others.
Me neither. And that's really the point: there's a certian amount of hyprocrisy in all of us. Those who love Reagan generally hate labor unions; conveniently, they just happen to forget that Reagan was the ONLY President this country ever had who had also led a labor union (he was President of the Screen Actors Guild - SAG - from 1947-1952).
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My reason for voting Republican is primarily because of economic policy issues.
That *used to be* the case - you voted Republican if you were against large government and big spending. That's no longer the case. The Neo-Conservatives, led by Grover Nordquist, claimed that they would make the government "so small you could drown it in a bathtub". Look around you; does your government look smaller? With all your TSA, NSA, Homeland Security, your expanded wiretaps and electronic eavesdropping, do you actually think you have LESS government and LESS spending? And like it or not, that's the direction the Republican party wants to continue in. They call the Democrats "tax & spend" liberals. What's so bad about taxing as you spend? What the administration does right now is to borrow, at high interest rates, and then spend. They're not spending less, they're just making sure it will cost you far, FAR more to pay it off. Think of it this way: You can buy a $600 TV with the cash you have in your wallet right now (if you have $600 cash in there). OR... you can charge it on your credit card and then pay it off over the next 75 years. Guess which one is going to be more expensive to you.
At what point did the Republican "permanent majority" decide that "borrow & spend" was preferable to "tax & spend"?
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I would drop the Republicans in a second if the Dems would put forward a pro-growth, pro-2nd Amendment candidate. But that will never happen now with the far left running the Democrat party.
Frankly, I wouldn't worry too much about the 2nd Amendment. It would take a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to do away with it entirely, and that just ain't gonna happen, in your lifetime or mine. I'm that rarest of birds, a liberal who loves his guns, and I just honestly don't see the 2nd Amendment going away. Now, if you're talking about ANY gun control being a complete evil, let me ask you this:
If you can have a semi-auto, why shouldn't I be able to have a 75mm self-propelled howitzer? If you can carry a handgun, why can't I carry a satchel full of hand-grenades?
See? There IS gun control already. The Clinton Administration already did the whole assault-weapons-ban thing, and it just didn't do anything. There wasn't support for outlawing all semi-auto weapons, and there isn't going to be support anytime soon, if ever. How deeply was I impacted because my Ruger P85 came with only a 10-round mag instead of a 15-rounder? Not one whit. ('Course, that didn't stop me from buying a couple 15-rounders when the ban was sunsetted!).
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Is it bad that I am pondering, perhaps some time in the future, dealing arms to both ends of our radical spectrum...
Not so much "bad" as simply unworkable. The left wouldn't line up to buy guns. Except for me, of course. But I'm kinda twisted that way. ;)
In fact, I'm heading to the gun show this weekend, hopefully to pick up a nice AK-47 and a handful of 30-round mags - you know, just in case they DO get banned again!
What I'd really like to get my hands on is a nice 50-cal sniper rifle, but so far I just haven't been able to justify that purchase to my wife. Kinda hard to claim "home defense" when you're picking off man-sized targets at 3000 yards! "But, honey, I'm pretty sure he was gonna break in once he finally got here!"
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Originally posted by canttakesky:
Tholo, why do you refuse to answer? It is a simple question. What convinced you that Obama was a Muslim before running for office?
Isn't that obviouse? His only "proof" is a forwarded email and a lot of assumption, and fear.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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FWIW this is what I found
Quote:Fox typically mixes up opinion with news.
...reporting by CNN in Jakarta, Indonesia and Washington, D.C., shows the allegations that Obama attended a madrassa to be false. CNN dispatched Senior International Correspondent John Vause to Jakarta to investigate. He visited the Basuki school, which Obama attended from 1969 to 1971. Vause reported he saw boys and girls dressed in neat school uniforms playing outside the school, while teachers were dressed in Western-style clothes.
"I came here to Barack Obama's elementary school in Jakarta looking for what some are calling an Islamic madrassa ... like the ones that teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan," Vause said on the "Situation Room" Monday. "I've been to those madrassas in Pakistan ... this school is nothing like that."
"This is a public school. We don't focus on religion," Hardi Priyono, deputy headmaster of the Basuki school, told Vause. "In our daily lives, we try to respect religion, but we don't give preferential treatment."
"It's not (an) Islamic school. It's general," Winadijanto said. "There is a lot of Christians, Buddhists, also Confucian. ... So that's a mixed school."
Vause also interviewed one of Obama's Basuki classmates, Bandug Winadijanto, who claims that not a lot has changed at the school since the two men were pupils. Insight reported that Obama's political opponents believed the school promoted Wahhabism, a fundamentalist form of Islam, "and are seeking to prove it."
The Obama aide described Fox News' broadcasting of the Insight story "appallingly irresponsible." Fox News executive Bill Shine told CNN "Reliable Sources" anchor Howard Kurtz that some of the network's hosts were simply expressing their opinions.
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Always look upstream.
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Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
I would drop the Republicans in a second if the Dems would put forward a pro-growth, pro-2nd Amendment candidate. But that will never happen now with the far left running the Democrat party.
Frankly, I wouldn't worry too much about the 2nd Amendment. It would take a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to do away with it entirely, and that just ain't gonna happen, in your lifetime or mine.
Of course the problem is that a lot of rules can be put into place that work around the 2nd Amendment. I am pro reasonable gun control but things like Obama wanting to ban all semi-autos is ridiculous. However I don't think he'll get it even if he tries which he might not.
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I'm that rarest of birds, a liberal who loves his guns
Join the club :) I'm getting my second gun (an SKS) whenever I get around to finding an FFL nearby.
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What I'd really like to get my hands on is a nice 50-cal sniper rifle, but so far I just haven't been able to justify that purchase to my wife. Kinda hard to claim "home defense" when you're picking off man-sized targets at 3000 yards! "But, honey, I'm pretty sure he was gonna break in once he finally got here!"
:)
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And, y'know, just so we're all clear on a something...
I heartily approve of EVERYONE'S right to disapprove of Barack Obama, or any other candidate or person. All I ask is that you at least KNOW why you disapprove of someone. Simply parroting bad information and claiming it as "fact" doesn't cut it. It's cheap, and it's beneath you. Haven't Bush & Company done enough damage already with these kind of shady tactics?
Regime change begins at home!
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Originally posted by Kwicko:
In fact, I'm heading to the gun show this weekend, hopefully to pick up a nice AK-47 and a handful of 30-round mags - you know, just in case they DO get banned again!
I went to a gun show a few weeks ago and the place was packed. They were selling so many guns I had to wait 35 minutes for my so called "instant" background check. Seems to me there's a lot of people buying their dream guns before the election just in case. When passing a table filled with probably fifty assorted semi-automatic rifles, I noticed that there was a picture of Hillary Clinton right in the middle of all the AK-47s and miscellaneous black rifles. The caption at the bottom just said "buy them while you can". I'll definitely be going back to the next gun show to pick up that rifle I've had my eye on for the last twenty years. I always put off buying it because it costs as much as a decent used car, but I think this might be now or never time.
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Originally posted by SignyM:
Fox typically mixes up opinion with news.
So does CNN, so does MSNBC, so does Hillary, so does McCain, so does Romney, so does Huckabee, so does Bush, so did Bill Clinton, so did Bush Sr., so does all of their campaign managers....
What makes Barack Hussein Obama any different?
Because he's well spoken, well educated and can do a much better job lying to people than George Bush can?
At least 95% of us are aware of and admit to the fact that George Bush and Dick Cheney lie every time they open their mouths. Quite franky, I'm pretty confident that Barack will win the election and I'm really afraid for our future.
Why don't you look into the politics in Illinois and see just how messed up things really are there. Having lived there my entire life and worked for 3 years in politics preceeding September 11th, I have quite a bit of experience with Illinois politics. The great Republican witch hunt of 2001 did not make Illinois a better place.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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I find it ironic that for all our american ingenuity, the best we ever came up with was a cheesy toy company copy of a piss poor stoner design that foolishly blows it's own fouling into a chamber that can be jammed completely by a mere three grains of sand...
If Kalishnikov ever designed a car, the american auto industry would go bellyup completely within five years.
I favor the old school, red star, soviet-chinese com-bloc AK, it's just so damn ugly it's kind a cute and scary at the same time, like a happy, friendly bulldog.
-F
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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I find it ironic that for all our american ingenuity, the best we ever came up with was a cheesy toy company copy of a piss poor stoner design that foolishly blows it's own fouling into a chamber that can be jammed completely by a mere three grains of sand...
If Kalishnikov ever designed a car, the american auto industry would go bellyup completely within five years.
I favor the old school, red star, soviet-chinese com-bloc AK, it's just so damn ugly it's kind a cute and scary at the same time, like a happy, friendly bulldog.
-F
There no question that the is AK-47 probably the best rifle ever designed. But don't forget the M-14/M1-A1, it's every bit as dependable as the AK's but unfortunately quite a bit heavier. I've always favored the NATO 7.62x51 over the Soviet 7.62x39 even though both have their advantages. I think I will pick up a Yugo AK with a folding stock before they reinstate the ban. There are some advantages of the M-16 over the AK's, primarily the weight of rifle+ammo means the average soldier can carry many more rounds of ammo. The high quality of almost all semi-auto rifles on the market today make a choice come down to ammo caliber and personal preference. I wouldn't even attempt to dissuade anyone from buying any of the numerous quality rifles available today. But when it comes down to bang for the buck there's no way you can beat an AK-47.
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6ix: I look at the news like you do: Like a PN post. We're told only what the powers-that-be want us to hear. AFA Obama is concerned, I have no hope that he will ever "turn things around". His list and amounts of corporate donors is right up there with Hillary's. There are only a few politicians that I know who walk the talk, and that's Feingold, Kucinich, and Ron Paul.
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Always look upstream.
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Originally posted by SignyM:
6ix: I look at the news like you do: Like a PN post. We're told only what the powers-that-be want us to hear. AFA Obama is concerned, I have no hope that he will ever "turn things around". His list and amounts of corporate donors is right up there with Hillary's. There are only a few politicians that I know who walk the talk, and that's Feingold, Kucinich, and Ron Paul.
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Always look upstream.
I can't say as I believe we've ever been in agreement on any single idea more than what you've stated right here in this paragraph Signy.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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My only real hope is that Obama hopefully hasn't been *quite as* coopted by "the system" quite yet, and that maybe, just maybe, he'll bring in a whole slew of new blood who haven't been around long enough to be in anyone's pocket.
It's a weak and feeble hope, but it's about all we have left at the moment...
Shows how deep my commitment to Obama goes. Like I said before, I'm perfectly fine with people hating him; I just want them to hate him for the right reasons! I'm not at all comfortable with some of his past stands, but all politics is a compromise, and so far I find him to be the *least* compromised.
As for the rifle talk, I like the AK for a number of reasons (rugged, reliable, will shoot just fine even if you forgot to clean it, cheap as dirt - relatively - and lots of parts around), not the least of which is the cost of ammo. I buy ammo in 1000-round bricks, usually for about $80 per 1000. Hard to beat that price.
And if you think a semi-auto is expensive NOW, just wait. Did you watch the prices before the Assault Weapons Ban expired, and after? Used to be a pre-ban AK was going for over $2500. Now I've seen them under a grand. Part of me says to get 2 or 3, just for the investment potential!
Sweeping generalizations are always wrong!
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Trump now claiming that he has “nothing to do” with Maxwell Epstein, look at Obama he says.
https://x.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1948745112810356750
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Obama attacks Trump after his good friend Jimmy Kimmel was taken off air
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15111787/Barack-Obama-torches
-Trump-Kimmel.html
Rosie O'Donnell Issues Bold Political Response to Suspension of 'Jimmy Kimmel Live!
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tv/articles/rosie-odonnell-issues-
bold-political-123323187.html
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Obama: There's a 'rising wave of authoritarianism sweeping the globe'
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