Summer Glau's new show: Sarah Connor Chronicles

POSTED BY: Gapsule
UPDATED: Sunday, April 20, 2008 12:50
VIEWED: 49576
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This show has already grown on me, I liked the premier episode but thought the second was lacking and it is just been picking up steam from the third on.

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I like the fourth episode. I thought it was funny to be trapped inside that bunker with a terminator. I just hated the fact that I have to wait 2 weeks to see it.

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Originally posted by yinyang:

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Originally posted by Muggi:
I'm also waiting for an explanation as to why Summer can be flirty and cool the first episode, and completely high-school socially inept now..

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My mom floated a theory on that during the last episode. Cameron talks about the Terminators being programmed to carry out missions. Well, Cameron's first mission was probably to find John. Then, the second mission could have been something like "get close to him," which is what the flirting and acting normal were for. And, now, with that mission complete, the next mission is help John.

Maybe the future John forgot to give her orders to blend in after she found (the past) him? Or, maybe it wasn't important - that as long as Cameron doesn't draw too much attention to herself (and she hasn't yet), then her oddities are acceptable, given that she doesn't interact a whole lot with anyone beside John and Sarah anyway. And, it also frees Cameron to be herself more, instead of having to switch back and forth between personalities for an indeterminately long period of time. Maybe the future John thought that would be helpful, and that has something to do with her being a new sort of Terminator.

Or, maybe she has free will and doesn't have to stick rigidly to her mission (which is what it sort of seems like), and she doesn't consider blending in a priority.

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That's possible, but honestly IMO that's a little far-fetched. Given how crappy the writing has been at certain times on the show so far, I'm much more inclined to think the writers were just sloppy.

I'm going to keep watching, I'm enjoying the show, but it's not a gem by any stretch of the word.

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Hey Windstruck! Nice to see a Pinoy (person from the Philippines) Browncoat! I see Angel Locsin in your banner, hehe.. Mabuhay ka!

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Muggi:

Quote:

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Originally posted by yinyang:

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Originally posted by Muggi:
I'm also waiting for an explanation as to why Summer can be flirty and cool the first episode, and completely high-school socially inept now..

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My mom floated a theory on that during the last episode. Cameron talks about the Terminators being programmed to carry out missions. Well, Cameron's first mission was probably to find John. Then, the second mission could have been something like "get close to him," which is what the flirting and acting normal were for. And, now, with that mission complete, the next mission is help John.

Maybe the future John forgot to give her orders to blend in after she found (the past) him? Or, maybe it wasn't important - that as long as Cameron doesn't draw too much attention to herself (and she hasn't yet), then her oddities are acceptable, given that she doesn't interact a whole lot with anyone beside John and Sarah anyway. And, it also frees Cameron to be herself more, instead of having to switch back and forth between personalities for an indeterminately long period of time. Maybe the future John thought that would be helpful, and that has something to do with her being a new sort of Terminator.

Or, maybe she has free will and doesn't have to stick rigidly to her mission (which is what it sort of seems like), and she doesn't consider blending in a priority.

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That's possible, but honestly IMO that's a little far-fetched. Given how crappy the writing has been at certain times on the show so far, I'm much more inclined to think the writers were just sloppy.

I'm going to keep watching, I'm enjoying the show, but it's not a gem by any stretch of the word.

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I'm of the sloppy writing opinion as well, which is a shame, because I do want to like this show. (Unlike many here, I saw T:TSCC first, and found Firefly via looking up info on Summer Glau.)

What ticks me off is how freakin' simple it would be for a bit of dialog to fix this problem and end all of these questions. Just a simple exchange at high school, where John is understandably frustrated with Cameron's inability to blend in:

JOHN: You were so normal when we met. Why can't you be normal now?

CAMERON: That was 1999. This is 2007. Human social dynamics change. Speech patterns change. I had eight months to study the way humans interact in 1999. Eight months to program a script that would enable me to get close to you when we met. Now I have only variables waiting for more data.

...or some such thing.

Summer Glau is playing a convincing Cameron. Hopefully the writers will give her appropriately convincing material, so those watching the show don't have to keep coming up with excuses and explanations for things.

That's something you just don't see on Firefly boards....

mrmgraphics
(website under serious reconstruction, if not life-saving surgery)

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I thought about the crappy writing again... 'Reconstructive surgery' was super crappy. They're stretching it too much. Let's say the doctor is incredibly BRAVE, 5-6 hours of surgery, and he wouldn't even consider running? He may not go far, he knows that too, but he can always try other things to get out of there and run. Why is it that almost every doctor in this show is really ..... uhm stupid? and then they get killed?

Cromartie plot is just too dragging. Now, he's an actor.. more drag.

Anyway, I'm still looking forward to episode six when Summer does ballet. (rumor)

Is it possible for Joss to direct or write an episode of TSCC? He's back on FOX now right?

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The worst part of the writing, so far, isn't so much the plastic surgery as it is the introduction of elements to the mythology at key plot points.

Case in point: Stand-by mode with a 15-second reboot time.

I've got no problem with adding stand-by mode to the mythology, per se. What I do have a problem with is adding stand-by mode to the mythology at the very same time John needs stand-by mode to get himself out of the bunker.

It's just too deus ex machina -- a sudden revelation that saves the day, rather than John (or Sarah or Cameron) saving the day via previously-known variables.

Compare that to the magician's sleight-of-hand Joss Whedon used with River Tam's development. Now, it would have been downright silly, in BDM, after Simon got shot, if River suddenly charged into a room full of Reavers (and lived), if all we knew about her was what we saw when she emerged from the cryo-crate in the Firefly pilot. Instead, JW defly added his own "features" to River (to use "stand-by" mode terminology), piece-by-piece, in the cleverest of ways.

In Firefly, the tension between Jayne and the Tams was well-established when River suddenly slashes him with a butcher's knife. Also well-established was that River was prone to erratic mood swings. So the scene feels natural, but along the way we are learning that:

-- she's unstable
-- she can be violent
-- she's good with knives

And we alrady know River was the subject of Alliance brain experiments. Now flash forward to War Stories. It begins with River in one of her rare happy moments, playing with Kaylee. Nothig about the scene seems unnatural: River has shown bits of happiness before, and Kaylee is everyone's friend. Furthermore, when a few scenes later River has thrown up, it seems like she is regressing again, and that her playing with Kaylee really serves to show how rapidly her mental state can deteriorate from happiness to depression.

Then Kaylee is pinned down by three gunmen, terrified, and unable to hold onto her own gun. River grabs the gun and kills the three gunmen in a blink. With her eyes closed. And the sheer genius of Firefly and River's story is that River's horrifically deadly skills with a gun, in that scene, is far more believable than stand-by mode in T:TSCC. Surprising, yes -- in the scene, Kaylee is clearly just as terrified of River as she is grateful -- but believable, too. We already knew:

-- she's unstable
-- she can be violent
-- she can use weapons (butcher's knife)
-- she's Kaylee's friend

and, of course:

-- she's a genius of remarkable mental skill

So the scene flows from our previous knowledge. It's not like River just popped out of the cryo-crate and became Annie Oakley. It's no deus ex machina. It's believable, and driven by River's character. NOT by the plot (the need to save Kaylee).

Now move onto the masterpiece that is OiS. When River -- her mania getting worse -- is holding onto the gun, Kaylee is terrified. (The script reads that Kaylee looks "sh*t-scared" -- and it comes across quite clearly.). So what happened in War Stories didn't just appear out of no where and disappear back to nowhere; it comes back, Kaylee remembers it all too well, and it's then explicitely discussed by Kaylee and the crew. By then, they are also discussing River's apparent psychic abilities (shown in many an episode), and conclude that the Alliance may have been training her to be an assassin. (Perfectly reasonable conclusions, at a perfectly reasonable time.) While this is going on, River listens in from one deck below, gracefully perched, straddled and barefoot, on deck railings. She listens in and we are so intent on what she is feeling, our hearts going out to her, that we miss the obvious: She is also capable of extreme physical grace and agility. (She stands straddled on those railing, unmoving, as easily as one would stand on a deck.) We come away from this with even greater knowledge of River:

-- she's unstable
-- she can be violent
-- she can use weapons (butcher's knife)
-- she's Kaylee's friend
-- she's

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Ahem...
There is a writer's strike.
They may have been rushing to get these episodes shot before the writer's ended the run. Rewrites of badly meshed script would have heavily tasked and hampered the work, of each episode plus the rest not in the can.

So the question really is: should they have continued to create these episodes, albeit possibly flawed, or just waited til after the strike was over? Of course, look at your alternatives on network TV.
My vote is for TTSCC.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Ahem...
There is a writer's strike.
They may have been rushing to get these episodes shot before the writer's ended the run. Rewrites of badly meshed script would have heavily tasked and hampered the work, of each episode plus the rest not in the can.

So the question really is: should they have continued to create these episodes, albeit possibly flawed, or just waited til after the strike was over? Of course, look at your alternatives on network TV.
My vote is for TTSCC.

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Honestly, I am watching and enjoying T:TSCC. My point is I would like to continue to do so.

See, I had a bad experience once, many years ago, with a TV show that should have been good. Interesting premise, could have had fascinating character development, and -- ironically -- it featured an artificially-intelligent robot of sorts. But the robot wasn't Summer Glau, it was a 1982 Pontiac Trans Am; the show, (the original) Knight Rider.

What could have been a fascinating blend of sci fi, action, and character became, in essence, Popular Mechanics. Every problem in every episode was solved simply by installing some new feature on KITT, with each new feature requiring even further suspension of disbelief than the one before.

It was awful, awful writing, and it made me mad because I really wanted to enjoy that show.

Now please, don't think I'm comparing T:TSCC to Knight Rider. I'm not. There's no comparison. NONE. The writing on T:TSCC is a gazillion times greater, and the acting, even more so. But I find myself already falling into "Knight Rider mode" -- making excuses for a show I want to like.

On top of that, as mentioned in my posts, I simultaneously discovered Firefly/Serenity along with T:TSCC, and Firefly/Serenity simply raised the bar (very very high) for how I view sci fi writing (or indeed, any writing).

I am tuning into T:TSCC every week, and looking forward to more. That's why I wrote what I did. I'm hoping we don't find ourselves making too many excuses or working out too many details on the show, when a truly well-written show (Firefly) makes sure all questions and details are worked out before the show airs.

And no, don't use the writer's strike for an excuse. Firefly's "The Train Job" was written in two days; the entire writing and production was under a constant cloud of fear of cancellation. The difference is simply working out the details, and seeing arcs, and planning accordingly.

Otherwise, T:TSCC is going to become "what new feature in a Terminator that we knew absolutely nothing about before will be the key to the plot in this week's episode?" And that's the last thing I want to see. Because, again, I want to enjoy this show, I loved T2 (consider it a masterpiece), and was so taken by Cameron's portrayal on T:TSCC that I wanted to find out who the heck played her, and thus ended up here!

mrmgraphics
(website under serious reconstruction, if not life-saving surgery)

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You realize of course, the Trans Am died in 2002, same year as Firefly?

And my Trans Am based Firehawk is stock, no gadgets.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/490757

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I don't think you can blame any of the show's shortcomings on the writer's strike, since they had originally intended it to begin last fall, but later delayed it to mid-season. Why they only had time to do nine episodes I don't know. There have been some mistakes, but overall I think the show is okay, just not great. If nothing else, having Summer on the show has brought some people around to watching Firefly, I'd say that's a good thing.




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Again with episode 4 they played the "is that a terminator or not" game with us. The actor is being interrogated by the police and all his answers are stilted and potentially terminatorlike. Then the technician can't find a vein "oh no!". Oh wait it's just a human and he bursts out in human emotion right then calling them fascists. The problem I have with this type of stuff is that they force someone out of character just to build suspense.

Not only that but then later we see the actual terminator pretending to be the actor and is more human than the actual human was when the writers were trying to fool us. Stop playing stupid little games with the audience.

And how many dang terminators are there in 2007? This is what our third one in four shows? Why should we car at all about cromartie if they can just send back a gazillion terminators?

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Starts this side of the Pond 21st Feb on Virgin One

(Carefully trying not to see any spoilers...)

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I love Summer, but the show sucks...

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Originally posted by Hixie129:
I love Summer, but the show sucks...

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I think "sucks" is a bit strong personally. There are some things about the show that bug me - most of which have been mentioned here, but I'll keep watching. It's Summer, and it's SciFi in prime-time. Maybe we've been spoiled by Firefly (and Battlestar!) into having the bar set too high. I'm hoping the writing and continuity will improve, and I'll keep watching until it does.

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast

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I'll continue to watch as long as it's on the air, but I don't think the chances are good that we will get more than the nine episodes already filmed. The writers are going to have to turn it up a notch and give us something to get excited about for me to care very much either way. The acting has been poor overall, and unfortunately I have to include Summer in that a little, but it's the writer's fault, imo.

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Originally posted by Zeek:

Again with episode 4 they played the "is that a terminator or not" game with us. The actor is being interrogated by the police and all his answers are stilted and potentially terminatorlike. Then the technician can't find a vein "oh no!". Oh wait it's just a human and he bursts out in human emotion right then calling them fascists.

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Not to mention that you could clearly see MANY veins on his arm! It's getting very near the point that, Summer despite, I may need to stop watching the show. Or rather, I should say, I should perhaps stop watching to preserve the good memories of Summer!


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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FOX: "Oooo, let's play chess, shall we?! Only, we're a bit retarded, and don't know exactly which way a chess board goes."



"Hmm, h1 is a white square, you say? Eh, who will notice? We're gonna cancel the show anyway. We're just in it for the quick buck."

Yep, they play better than humans, these computers. Big finale, and then (announcer)...

"Rook to c2, checkmate! A shocking turn of events!"

Oh, for frak' sake!! Fox, could you possibly insult your public any further?!


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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First off chill out. I understand that a lot of Firefly fans will hate Fox and those who gave the axe to our beloved show for all time. This show isn't by them, its by some great writers and directors who had nothing to do with Firefly's premature death. Save the venom for the Fox executives please.

This weeks episode was exceptional, not only for its acting, and writing, but also for its overall story arc. I love the Det. Ellison character, and of course Summer/Cameron adds her usual brilliance.

This is a show with a fairly simple plot line, and yet they've managed to bring the feel of the movies into a totally different format. Currently this show (after just 5 episodes) is head and shoulders above Galactica which has turned to a convuluted and uninteresting soap opera. Its lost 90% of its sci and fi and has gone all soap.

In my opninion me this show is on pace (if they bring it back for a second full season) to be one of the best sci fi shows on television second only to Heroes.

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Haven't missed an episode yet, but I don't know how much longer I can watch it. The show is hollow and soul-less. Lena Heady is maybe THE worst actress I've ever seen....no emotion, no believability...just reading her lines off a script. There is not one endearing element in the show (save for Summer's presence)...ie, I don't like or care about these people, as they've given me nothing about them to like or believe in or care about. I'm rooting for the terminators to kill 'em all. Then show me a flash forward to the future, and all will change, probably for the better. I never really "bought into" the storyline that John Connor...the Great John Connor was the ONLY man in the future who could organize and motivate a resistance...What.. no Marines, firemen or cops around? Even those chin-ups Sarah's doing ..well it's obvious she's NOT doing them, they have some guy off-camera lifting her up and down...it's absurd.

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Originally posted by jubalisearly:

First off chill out. I understand that a lot of Firefly fans will hate Fox and those who gave the axe to our beloved show for all time. This show isn't by them, its by some great writers and directors who had nothing to do with Firefly's premature death. Save the venom for the Fox executives please.

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This has, if not nothing. then very little to do with Fox cancelling Firefly. It's about those alleged "great writers" who can't even place a chess board correctly. It shows a staggering disinterest in getting things right, and it's downright contemptuous towards the viewer even to think they'd get away with it. It's related to Firefly insofar that Joss was the exact opposite: even the letters from "Safe" contained a 'real' story about River at the Academy, spelling errors and all!!

I've played my fair share of chess tournaments (though I haste to say that, with an ELO of 2061, all I ever was, at best, was but an average player). And that commentary during that game, it was so ridiculous, it was almost laughable. :) And then, instead of shelling out the $200 or $300 bucks to buy a real chess program, they let some dork Photoshop something together, dirt-cheap, that puts a black square in the lower right corner, and splash it on a screen! I mean, really!

For those interested, the game they played was real, btw. It's a very famous game played between Byrne vs. Bobby Fischer, New York 1956. Fischer was only 13 at the time!

1 Nf3 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 d4 0-0 5 Bf4 d5 6 Qb3 dxc4 7 Qxc4 c6 8 e4 Nbd7 9 Rd1 Nb6 10 Qc5 Bg4 11 Bg5? Na4!! 12 Qa3 Nxc3 13 bxc3 Nxe4 14 Bxe7 Qb6 15 Bc4 Nxc3

Here cometh the show's big Bc5 moment:

16 Bc5 Rfe8+ 17 Kf1 ...

And Fischer's ingenious answer, sacrificing his Queen:

17. ... Be6!! 18 Bxb6 Bxc4+ 19 Kg1 Ne2+ 20 Kf1 Nxd4+ 21 Kg1 Ne2+ 22 Kf1 Nc3+ 23 Kg1 axb6 24 Qb4 Ra4 25 Qxb6 Nxd1 26 h3 Rxa2 27 Kh2 Nxf2 28 Re1 Rxe1 29 Qd8+ Bf8 30 Nxe1 Bd5 31 Nf3 Ne4 32 Qb8 b5 33 h4 h5 34 Ne5 Kg7 35 Kg1 Bc5+ 36 Kf1 Ng3+ 37 Ke1 Bb4+ 38 Kd1 Bb3+ 39 Kc1 Ne2+ 40 Kb1 Nc3+ 41 Kc1 Rc2 checkmate!


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Haven't missed an episode yet, but I don't know how much longer I can watch it. The show is hollow and soul-less. Lena Heady is maybe THE worst actress I've ever seen....no emotion, no believability...just reading her lines off a script. There is not one endearing element in the show (save for Summer's presence) ... ie, I don't like or care about these people, as they've given me nothing about them to like or believe in or care about. I'm rooting for the terminators to kill 'em all. Then show me a flash forward to the future, and all will change, probably for the better. I never really "bought into" the storyline that John Connor...the Great John Connor was the ONLY man in the future who could organize and motivate a resistance... What... no Marines, firemen or cops around? Even those chin-ups Sarah's doing ..well it's obvious she's NOT doing them, they have some guy off-camera lifting her up and down...it's absurd.

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I couldn't agree more. And I knew there was a reason I dislike Lena Heady so. :) Her acting is dispassionate and disinterested; all she's really good at expressing is the "Lemme spout these lines so I can get my paycheck and be out of here" look. And as the Sarah character, I find her thoroughly unpleasant, downright sour even.

And the future of the 'Verse in the hands of the Dekker twerp? *shudder* Oh please! His greatest act of resistance so far has been giving his mommy a whiny look for giving him sandwitches to school for lunch, instead of money.

Summer really oughta be careful that this ain't gonna hurt her career.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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I thought it was a good episode. It has a whole bunch of flaws but it's starting to get interesting.. (for me at least).
I liked the terminator fight with Summer and the other robot who or whatever its name is. Tinmiss fought quite well. I thought she'd be thrashed with the hard hits to the face. Whew! She retained her all shiny beauty.

I enjoyed the counseling scene. It was fun to watch. The facial expression was amazing and the voice was really funny. It got me. Really! I kind of expected it but, didn't picture it the same way in my mind.

The Reese brother was quite tragic. Is he really dead? SO who killed the comp guy? I'm now wondering what will happen next now that Sarah's ex fiance met Sarah after 8 years... To ponder.

Anyway, I want to see what happens next. The six episode was rumored to have ballet in it. I'm really looking forward to seeing Summer dance. Yeah, I miss the Angel episode with her dancing ballet.

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I couldn't agree more. And I knew there was a reason I dislike Lena Heady so. :) Her acting is dispassionate and disinterested; all she's really good at expressing is the "Lemme spout these lines so I can get my paycheck and be out of here" look. And as the Sarah character, I find her thoroughly unpleasant, downright sour even.

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Yea.. it's taken a few episodes to realize that. I think at first I was so focused on the ridiculous plot holes (like a t-800 skeleton sitting in a bank vault for 8 years and no body notices?? and stuff like that) to see the problem with Sarah. It does seem to me like Lena is acting as if she is sorry she took this roll and almost can't wait to for this show to get cancelled or something. Maybe it's not her.. I think she is a good actress. I thought she was awsome in 300. So maybe it's the directing.. or the writing or something. But she does just seem to be so apathetic. Any sence of urgency and drive that Sarah had from the first two movies seems to be totally gone.

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Tinmiss fought quite well. I thought she'd be thrashed with the hard hits to the face. Whew! She retained her all shiny beauty

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That's something that I think they are going to have to come up with a good answer for. Obviously Cameron can't sustain any visible damage (at least to the face) or she won't be able to go out in public anymore. Unless they do that stupid liquid skin/cosmetic surgery crap again. But how many times is Cameron going to be able to fight another terminator and not sustain any damage? After a while it's going to get pretty ridiculous. Actually it's already getting to that point. An easy way around this is to show that Cameron with her smaller size is infinatly faster than any other model terminator and with such speed and grace the larger tank terminators can hardly lay a finger on her. But occassionaly she does get a cut here or there that they can bandage and it will heal natrually. Then they can have an entire story arc when Cameron finally does sustain substansial damage to her skin on her face and they have to try to find a way to fix it... in a way that's better than the crappy idea they already have shown.


All that being said.. I think this 5th episode was probably the best one. I love the idea of the remaining resistance fighter being Kyle's brother! They finally did somethign interesting that ties back to the original films.

However... I'm not sold on the idea of this chess program developed by an intern at Cyberdyne possibly being Skynet 2. I hope this turns out not to be the case.

Smaug

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I know I wrote a pretty negative post earlier and some have agreed with it, or part of it. I'm now thinkin'.....maybe we're being too harsh on the thing. I mean it IS sci-fi....it does feature our beloved Summer...there ARE many great aspects of it....but actually it really could all just be about the "fun" of it...after all, it's not real, it's entertainment. I'm gonna take a lighter stance with it, and not be so 'spectin' of it. Go Summer! You deserve superstardom (if you want it)! Psssst...whisper some Joss go se to the writers.

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It's about those alleged "great writers" who can't even place a chess board correctly.
________

I personally doubt the writers had anything to do with the chessboard screw-up. You can lay that at the feet of the props. or special effects departments.

As far as the skinless head flying out of the time travel effect...I don't even recall seeing that in the "original" version of the pilot. So it makes me think it was decided afterward to change during the pilot "makeover". Yeah the makeover that everyone said, was due to the terminator shooting up the classroom and worry that so close to the Virginia Tech shootings might offend, upset or something...

(Oh by the way, the classroom shoot-up remained pretty much intact.)

I'd guess the real reason they added the skinless head was either upper management decided in the 6 months between the original pilot shoot and the pick up of the series they had to get a new actor to play the "big bad"...and this explains why he has a new /different face.

Or, Execs. wanted the flying head to look more robot...as to make sure people understood that wasn't a human head flying at them. Whichever it was, the head clearly had skin going into the travel effect and I doubt it was done by the writers ignorantly or otherwise messing with Terminator canon.

Some interesting things have been thrown on the table by the writers on which I'd like to hear other opinions.

One of those appeared at the end of episode 4, where, after dumping the load of metal into the ocean, we find that Cameron has hidden a slab of the metal in her room.

Another one occurred near the end of episode 5, while the new-found "uncle" is dying on the table, you see Cameron pull out a pencil and paper and start writing. The whole episode carries this side-plot regarding grief and writing notes to dead folks that can't read them. So to whom is Cameron writing?

Jordan, her "new friend" who took a header off the gymnasium roof? She told us she didn't feel grief for her...freaking out the counselor in the process. (whom I think has more than a professional reason to be asking these questions, but...)

The recently dead, computer nerd Andy? I doubt it she was voting to "off" him from the beginning.

The possibly soon to be dead uncle? Hmmm, I doubt that too.

Having learned that writing a note helps humans deal with the death of a fellow human...could Cameron be working out her grief for the terminator she was forced to kill when she pulled the CPU out of it's skull?

Also, where are we going with the chem-lab partner?

Inquiring minds what to know...

____________

River: Midbulk transport. Standard radion accelerator core. Class-code 03-K64. Firefly.

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Originally posted by Cabot:

Having learned that writing a note helps humans deal with the death of a fellow human...could Cameron be working out her grief for the terminator she was forced to kill when she pulled the CPU out of it's skull?

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That seems most likely.

Select to view spoiler:

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Her expression at havig to pull out the CPU seems saddend.

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Fe'nos Tol
JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

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First of all, I wanted to say hi to everyone since this is my first post. Before I start I'm gonna apologize up front if I hurt anyone's feelings.
Okay, I've been reading this thread and to my surprise people here are really negative about TSCC and sometimes even about Summer. Well, the show is only just beginning...give it some time and it is already enjoyable IMO. The skull coming though had to do with the Fox executes (yes, they're at it again) They didn't want burning flesh surrounding the head when it came through. Could shock people.

Now I'm gonna come to the real reason I'm posting this. The Browncoats shouldn't diss this show, instead support it cos Summer definetly needs it. Do you want them to off another Firefly alumni? Who knows if this gets more succesful Summer will get big and more opportunity for Serenity 2. A lot of people including me have seen the pilot (in my case the leaked pilot in August 2007) and were intrigued by Summer. I checked her out on the net and downloaded Firefly and Serenity. Incredible show that touched my heart and the movie was incredible too. So I guess I'm a second generation Browncoat! I read what all you guys did so a feature film could be made. I felt the need to contribute and bought the DVD of the series and film. I also recruited other new Browncoats who also purchased DVD's. I also read online a lot of people saw Summer in the pilot of TSCC and have seen Firefly afterwards. So you see, Terminator contributes to Firefly and maybe hopefully next time Firefly spawns something new, you'll have a lot more fans than before TSCC hit the small screen. So no more dissing but instead work together. Coz if we don't this series will not last past 9 episodes and Summer does NOT deserve that! Look at what happened to Drive...Browncoats know everything about trolls cos they're always around...especially when something fails like Serenity failed at the box office. They keep saying that you failed to even attend your own screening which meant Serenity was doomed. To me that was the best movie I saw in the last couple of years by the way. So don't nitpick on Summer's new show but close the ranks and stand up for one of the most important Firefly cast members. Who knows? Some good may come from this in the future. The nasty comments feel like betrayal to me and that's why I felt the need to post here. I don't think Summer would like it either. And last but not least...last episode of TSCC was awesome! If the show keeps this up it will be a kick@ss ride!

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Sorry douled up...

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I find it hilarious that anyone could make such a big deal out of so small a mistake a chessboard screw-up. Seriously, if your watching anything on TV that closely you need therapy, or you need to slide a few more inches back because your beginning to suffer from radiation poisoning.

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...it shows a staggering disinterest in getting things right, and it's downright contemptuous towards the viewer even to think they'd get away with it..."

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Your a chess fan we get it... theres a lot of people aren't all that into chess, and could careless that a minute detail was screwed up. I love Risk, should I get pissed when they show a Risk board without Australia?


Contemptuous? Really...you think they hate their audience? Or is it that because they made a mistake on something dear to your heart thats made you lash out like a two year old?

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...And then, instead of shelling out the $200 or $300 bucks to buy a real chess program, they let some dork Photoshop something together, dirt-cheap, that puts a black square in the lower right corner, and splash it on a screen! I mean, really!

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So now their cheap because a simple mistake was made? Whatever...

This shows writing so far has been pretty strong considering the source material. While it may not be up to Whedon's or Minnear's standards, so far it's head and shoulders up against shows like Smallville, or Stargate 'Yawn'.

I've accused some in here of being so biased against FOX that they have already made up their minds on this show, and I still stand by that. Its entertainment guys (scripted I might add, an increasing rarity in todays TV world.) ...so get off the high horse and change the channel if you don't like it.

So far every critic has given nothing but empty rhetoric and banal statements... ie 'This Show sucks...or wheres Arnold...or Lena Headly sucks'

Give it a rest and turn the channel instead of throwing this drivel around.

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Hey Jubal...I guess you didn't see my last post....some of us have "chilled" out on it already...really don't need you coming in here admonishing other Browncoats. People are entitled to their opinions, good and bad. Criticize or praise the show, not the opinions.

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Just because you like the show is no reason to start insulting posters. They are entitled to their opinion about the show just as much as you are. But if you have a bad opinion about the poster at least try to keep it constructive please.


As for this next episode I was again unimpressed. The show is getting a little better, but they really need to work on the details. "Chess is a game of total annihilation"? Really since when? I thought it was just about getting to the King. Even then you just get him in checkmate and don't even take the piece. They need to stop trying to sound all deep if they aren't even going to take a minute to think through the dialog.

The Turk was really annoying too. This one is probably because I majored in Computer Science. They're just throwing terms around to sound cool and they clearly don't know what they're talking about. In which case I see no reason for the flashy terms. He doesn't need them to talk to Sarah. She wouldn't understand them anyway. So, just give it a rest.

The terminators are really getting old. I think half the people in this city are terminators. With all of them running around I'm half expecting there to be a big reveal that this FBI agent is a terminator as well and he's just executing his mission to find John and Sarah.

Like most of the people on here, I'm hopeful that they're just finding their footing and it will pick up steam soon. I'm thinking the Reese brother will live and that could help give the story some edge. Did anyone else want to slap the paramedic when he just stood there starring at Sarah? The man isn't breathing!!! Get to work already!!!

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Originally posted by Zeek:
Just because you like the show is no reason to start insulting posters. They are entitled to their opinion about the show just as much as you are. But if you have a bad opinion about the poster at least try to keep it constructive please.


As for this next episode I was again unimpressed. The show is getting a little better, but they really need to work on the details. "Chess is a game of total annihilation"? Really since when? I thought it was just about getting to the King. Even then you just get him in checkmate and don't even take the piece. They need to stop trying to sound all deep if they aren't even going to take a minute to think through the dialog.

The Turk was really annoying too. This one is probably because I majored in Computer Science. They're just throwing terms around to sound cool and they clearly don't know what they're talking about. In which case I see no reason for the flashy terms. He doesn't need them to talk to Sarah. She wouldn't understand them anyway. So, just give it a rest.

The terminators are really getting old. I think half the people in this city are terminators. With all of them running around I'm half expecting there to be a big reveal that this FBI agent is a terminator as well and he's just executing his mission to find John and Sarah.

Like most of the people on here, I'm hopeful that they're just finding their footing and it will pick up steam soon. I'm thinking the Reese brother will live and that could help give the story some edge. Did anyone else want to slap the paramedic when he just stood there starring at Sarah? The man isn't breathing!!! Get to work already!!!

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Awesome assessment. 100% agrement here.

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Well.. I am still watching the show and will continue to give it a chance. At least watch it through the episodes they actually have filmed.

But the thing about it. Doesn't matter weither or not who's in the show or who is responsible for the show or what network is broadcasting the show and on and on. If it's not good.. you just can't go on supporting it. Time's too valuable to support something that's not that good.

And out of all the critizisms of TSCC, I don't "hate" it. I am mostly "disappointed" in it.

As an example. The movie "Transformers". A lot of people loved that movie. I thought it was "entertaining" for what it was. Robot on Robot action. It was better than I was expecting it to be when I first heard about it a couple of years earlier. For a "turn your brain off and just enjoy the ride" kind of movie, it was enjoyable. However, I walked away from the movie VERY VERY disappointed. Disappointed in the fact that they actually had some REALLY great ideas in that movie. But they just couldn't decide what kind of movie they wanted it to be. Was it going to be a military thirller? Or a boy and his car buddy movie? Then they throw in the keystone cop sigma six miltary guy, and also the blond and black hackers.. and just one thing after another. Then they would have a scene of "comic relief" that went on for 30 minutes too long. So long in fact you can't remember why they needed comic relief in the first place. And on and on.

Even though I "enjoyed" the movie... I was 100 times more disappointed in it.. because underneight all that unneccisary crap.. there could have been something truely GREAT! But instead.. we have a movie that made tons of money.. will have a sequel or two.. and 1 year after the last movie comes out.. everyone will forget about it.

Instead.. they could have had a movie that 20 years from now would still be on people's mind and in the top X number of sci-fi movies of all time. Sure.. it may not have made 500 million in the first year or whatever, but instead it might have made 750 million or more over the next couple of decades.

TSCC is the same way... I am enjoying it. Summer being one of the few things that isn't a problem with the show. But I am mostly disappointed... because it COULD be great, and I am hoping it still can be). But they started out with so many plot holes and bad writing and messing up cannon.. only to finally show a glimmer of promise here or there.. but then to only drop the ball again.

Oh well.. it IS only the 5th episode... I still have hope it can get better, if it doesn't get cancelled before then.

I would LOVE to know honestly what James Cameron thinks of it so far. I doubt that it would be pretty.

Smaug.

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Originally posted by jubalisearly:

Seriously, if your watching anything on TV that closely you need therapy,

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It's the popular theory.

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I love Risk, should I get pissed when they show a Risk board without Australia?

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More to the point, should *I* get pissed if you did?

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Contemptuous? Really...you think they hate their audience?

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No, they hold them in contempt. They're not doing their homework. Computer Science, Chess, Terminator bodies lying around undetected in a vault for 8 years, whatever, they botch the details. Badly. And they count on the audience being too stupid to notice. "The Japanese seize control of the center with Bc5." Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds for a supposedly high-level game? Seriously, if they know zilch about chess, then they should either educate themselves or try not to sound like they do! As Mark Twain said: It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

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Or is it that because they made a mistake on something dear to your heart thats made you lash out like a two year old?

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Physician, heal thyself.

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So now their cheap because a simple mistake was made?

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No, they're cheap, pretty much like I said, because they were, erm, too cheap to shell out the $200 or $300 bucks for a real chess program to show on that screen.

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Give it a rest and turn the channel instead of throwing this drivel around.

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You've been here too long, really, to be excused for such a tone. And I've been here too long, really, to make a big stink about it. But I start fighting a war, I guarantee you'll see something new. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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I thought Browncoats were better than this...very dissapointing to say the least. How can you expect Firefly or Serenity to ever succeed if you don't even stand behind your people. Support Summer instead of becoming the trolls that we so frequently see attacking Firefly. No wonder Serenity tanked at the box office cos you guys can't close ranks. I'm a huge Firefly fan, that's why seeing those comments hurts so much. Feels like betrayal. By the way, how could someone go on and on about the chessgame. Hardly anyone cares that much about chesstournaments these days. If you go that way I could nitpick the crap out of almost every tv show on the air.

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Originally posted by TheMarked:
I thought Browncoats were better than this...very dissapointing to say the least. How can you expect Firefly or Serenity to ever succeed if you don't even stand behind your people. Support Summer instead of becoming the trolls that we so frequently see attacking Firefly. No wonder Serenity tanked at the box office cos you guys can't close ranks. I'm a huge Firefly fan, that's why seeing those comments hurts so much. Feels like betrayal. By the way, how could someone go on and on about the chessgame. Hardly anyone cares that much about chesstournaments these days. If you go that way I could nitpick the crap out of almost every tv show on the air.

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With all due respect..

There's a difference between "support" and "blind fanaticism". The show is not good. SUMMER is good. Richard JONES is good. The writing is amateur at best; flaky, cheezy and predictable most of the time. The WRITERS have absolutely NOTHING to do with Firefly.

I watch the show. I enjoy it somewhat, but it's NOT WELL-MADE.

Being a fan of something like Firefly should IMO make you even angrier about this! Look, look what Joss and his team did with their money, and then see what these other idiots did with theirs. And THEY are the ones with a running series?! WTF?!@

This week's episode did not improve on the show's problems at ALL. I know next to NOTHING about chess, but even still the tournament was not believable. Putting Reese' brother into the script was dumb IMO; it comes off as a "LOOK LOOK we've ALMOST GOT THE GUY FROM THE REAL TERMINATOR" stunt to grab fans.

My example of why the writing on this show sucked THIS week: final scene. Reese lays dying on the table...so of course, the EMT-former-almost-Dad guy runs in...and pauses to share a tv moment with Sarah. Totally fake, totally "you are watching a tv show" writing. He then runs in and starts PUMPING ON THE GUY'S CHEST, when we haven't been told anything about the guy's heart stopping. They said his BREATHING had stopped. Big difference.

I should also say these guys never got the memo about CPR..unless you're writing for "ER", where they have very good CPR dummies...DO NOT SHOW CPR FROM A WIDE ANGLE. It cannot LOOK real without hurting the actor, so you're better off just NOT SHOWING IT. You shoot CPR scenes while focused on the giver's face, showing their forceful body motion downward. If the writers had ever seen an old episode of ER (pre-dummies), they would know this. And guess what? they should have.

How much more impact would the scene have had if he ran in, saw dying guy, immediately runs over and starts doing his thing..then looked UP at Sarah and gave the same grim, "what the hell did you do to me" tv moment look he gave at the doorway? It would have conveyed suspense about Reese dying, about what their relationship would be, about what would be said next. They could have ended the show with just that scene, and spared the Sarah voiceover..which is getting old, really quick. Again, predictable. Even shows that LIVE on the voiceover, like "Scrubs", will use the lack of a closing voiceover to change the pace and inject some drama..which was what the last scene was supposed to be about.

So there, there's my negative comments for the week. I support Firefly, and Summer is the only reason I even gave the show a chance after Week 1.

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Originally posted by Muggi:


I watch the show. I enjoy it somewhat, but it's NOT WELL-MADE.

Being a fan of something like Firefly should IMO make you even angrier about this! Look, look what Joss and his team did with their money, and then see what these other idiots did with theirs. And THEY are the ones with a running series?! WTF?!@

This week's episode did not improve on the show's problems at ALL. I know next to NOTHING about chess, but even still the tournament was not believable. Putting Reese' brother into the script was dumb IMO; it comes off as a "LOOK LOOK we've ALMOST GOT THE GUY FROM THE REAL TERMINATOR" stunt to grab fans.

My example of why the writing on this show sucked THIS week: final scene. Reese lays dying on the table...so of course, the EMT-former-almost-Dad guy runs in...and pauses to share a tv moment with Sarah. Totally fake, totally "you are watching a tv show" writing.

(...)

So there, there's my negative comments for the week. I support Firefly, and Summer is the only reason I even gave the show a chance after Week 1.

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Very well said, Muggi! I was just gonna write something similar, but you saved me the trouble. :)

Yes, I too love Summer! And there ain't no soul this end of the 'Verse that can't relate. :) And if it weren't for her, I would have long since stopped watching. Have you ever seen me get upset about, say, Bionic Woman? Nope. Shows like that I just consume for light entertainment. It's just that I'm 'invested', so to speak, in the career of Summer: I want her to succeed, and play many new, clever and brilliant roles. And it literally pains me to see that she cannot do so in TSCC.

It ain't about chess, of course; and it never were. It's about bad writing, disinterested prop-guys, and an entire story riddled with holes. The chess thing just made me realize the level of incompetence. I could just as easily have lamented about the whole Turk mumbo-jumbo, or any of the dozens of other major flaws mentioned in this thread. It's just not very good.

I'm also not for blind fanaticism. I love Summer. But I also believe that, at any given time, the most benign thing you can do for a person/show, is tell them the truth. That way, when you compliment them, they know it's real, too. Not that I'm so delusional as to think Summers's actually reading our little thread, but, for my own self, I just can't come here and speak from the heart, as I've done the last few years, and then suddenly fake an attitude about a show that really don't do it for me, just because Summer is in it. Can't say as I feel particularly bad 'bout it, either. Especially since I haven't seen even a single person diss Summer.

And yes, I will see Ep. 6, too. :)

P.S. Reading your nick, there, I just realized that's Quark's mother. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Originally posted by TheMarked:
No wonder Serenity tanked at the box office cos you guys can't close ranks.

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I think you've lost the high ground here dear. You're pointing fingers at Browncoats for the poor box office results of Serenity? Isn't that a bit absurd...really? If it wasn't for the few, original, dedicated Browncoats, there would never have been a movie in the first place....and that movie has brought millions more into the Firefly verse over the last 2 years. Give it time....patience Grasshopper! Sarah Connor Chronicles and it's quality has nothing to do with Firefly, neither does Nathan being in Desperate Housewives & Waitress, or Jewel & Morena in Stargates. These people are actors...they go where the jobs are. Someday, if were lucky, there might be more of Joss's verse, but we all don't have to love everything the BDH's do for the rest of our lives.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Quote:

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Originally posted by TheMarked:
No wonder Serenity tanked at the box office cos you guys can't close ranks.

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I think you've lost the high ground here dear. You're pointing fingers at Browncoats for the poor box office results of Serenity? Isn't that a bit absurd...really? If it wasn't for the few, original, dedicated Browncoats, there would never have been a movie in the first place....and that movie has brought millions more into the Firefly verse over the last 2 years. Give it time....patience Grasshopper! Sarah Connor Chronicles and it's quality has nothing to do with Firefly, neither does Nathan being in Desperate Housewives & Waitress, or Jewel & Morena in Stargates. These people are actors...they go where the jobs are. Someday, if were lucky, there might be more of Joss's verse, but we all don't have to love everything the BDH's do for the rest of our lives.

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Exactly my point. The Browncoats fought to get the movie and failed to fight further. They treated Firefly wrong at Fox. Episodes not in the right order and much more. It wasn't given a fair shot. So don't play by the book this time. And your opinions vary a lot from other opinions considering the show. Hopefully it will be renewed and Summer will get bigger. Serenity 2 has more chance if at least one makes it big. As for the Browncoats. I loved the show and what the fans did to get the movie. The show had love and warmth all over it and that was good. However I'm appalled by how people aimlessly bash Terminator while I myself can see a lot of flaws in Firefly. Nothing is perfect in this world. I can see this is not the place for me and I won't defend Firefly on other forums anymore against mindless trolls who hate things. Seems like at least a couple of you turned into them too. I can take critisism but some of you won't even allow others opinions. I'm dissapointed cos this was the last thing I expected from Browncoats. I wish you luck with Serenity in the future. Goodbye.

ps: How could someone make something good like Firefly and fail so hopelessly with Buffy and Angel? Too bad the worst survived for seasons while the best didn't even get 1. What a damn shame.

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Originally posted by TheMarked:
How could someone make something good like Firefly and fail so hopelessly with Buffy and Angel? Too bad the worst survived for seasons while the best didn't even get 1. What a damn shame.

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Whoa there! Now who's dissing other productions by Firefly writers and producers? That comment is just as arrogant, and downright wrong, as anything anyone else has said against TSCC on this thread. I know it's all just a matter of taste and personal opinion, but anyone who doesn't think highly of Buffy and Angel loses a lot of respect from me. How much of either of those shows have you watched? In my (not so) humble opinion, Firefly is the best television show ever produced, but Buffy and Angel both make it into at least the Top 10 of my favorites, if not the Top 5.

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Originally posted by asarian:

P.S. Reading your nick, there, I just realized that's Quark's mother. :)

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LOL is it really?

And I thought I was SOOO original :P Muggi Slugfingers was the name of my gnome bard in Everquest 2 and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, two online games.

p.s.: I'm a guy, and so was the character!

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Originally posted by TheMarked:

Exactly my point. The Browncoats fought to get the movie and failed to fight further.

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In earnest, you've made what, a good 3 posts here? Don't ya think it's a mite odd for you to tell veteran Browncoats that the've "failed to fight further"? They've already Done The Impossible; have you?

Point of interest? Calling folks "mindless trolls" might not work so well as an incentive to endear them to you as you might imagine.

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Some of you won't even allow others opinions.

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Seems odd you would support an argument you were on the wrong side of. Because, quite frankly, I see no one here so vehemently trying to suppress other opinions than you.

The irony of it all, is that Browncoats are the exact opposite from "mindless" drones; they are independents. They don't like to be meddled with. Don't tell them what to think, what to do. "Don't run, don't walk." Start ringing a bell?

Browncoats beat as one heart when it comes to Firefly/Serenity. But when it comes to other shows, it's likely you'll see some divergence.

Overall, this is the most loving board I've ever been on. I'm thinking perhaps you chose the wrong thread to introduce yourself to the 'Verse? So, are you on the wrong ship? Maybe. Or maybe you're exactly where you ought to be. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Like that person, I'm a second gen firefly fan. I agree with ya guys, Firefly was a good show. But don't get confused. If it wasn't for Summer Glau, the actual star of the show (Yes, it wasn't Nathan), Firefly would be a mediocre show. Seriously... Who stood out of the crowd of Firefly? River. Who intrigued more than the others of the show? River. Who stole every scene she was in? River. Who was the subject of the movie? River (and the Reavers, but River mostly).

I read that the 1st gen browncoats were responsible for the movie. If you did everything right, Firefly would still be on television! So don't give yourself credit for getting a movie, give yourself credit for allowing the network to cancel Firefly in the first place!!! And also, who went to check out the movie at the cinema, huh?!? Huh?!? You tell me why it was a box office flop!!! And you call yourself fans. And before you start asking me where I was: it was the movie I saw at the movie theater that made me watch the show, so there!!!

IF ya hate Terminator... whatever, you know? But help out a Browncoat, okay? Least thing you could do is put your tv on whatever network it's on and do something else for an hour or so. And think about it: if ya help Summer out, her star will rise: more free publicity for Firefly.

You should be ashamed for what you're doing to Summer Glau. I'm taking off my brown coat. I'm done with you people.

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A good actress is like a flower: she'll only flourish on vertile soil. Joss provided that, plentifold. TSCC doesn't. The thing I'm uncomprehending on, though, is why that position angers folks so--to the degree of tossing their brown coat, even. Must we hail everything Summer does, just because she's Summer? Or is there room to acknowldge that the director/writer of a show plays an integral part in allowing a flower like Summer to blossom? And, conversely, are we given the space to notice that other directors/shows are not as good as Joss? I'd like to think I can credit Joss' genius, next to that of Summer. And that one does not detract from the other--ere the opposite: that it is the synergy of great souls that makes Firefly work. If I give Summer all the credit, then what my right hand gives to Summer, my left hand takes away from Joss. And I'm not prepared to do that. And, in earnest, I don't even think she'd want us to.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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I find it highly illogical for those who didn't discover the 'verse until the movie to be criticizing those of us who did watch the series when it was originally on the air. Where were you then? We may be able to lay the blame on the FOX execs who didn't give it a good timeslot, refused to air the pilot first, altered the order of the other episodes, and generally under-promoted the show. However, it is people like you who were not watching it that caused its cancellation, not those of us who were watching and trying desperately to get the attention of others.

TSCC will survive or fail based on its own merits. I've watched it, and will continue to watch what FOX offers, and even hope they pick it up for more episodes. Not because I think it is a great show, but it does have potential which I hope is eventually realized. I can read, and to an extent agree with, some of the criticisms of the show without attempting to brand those critics as traitors to the cause. I agree that Summer was an extremely integral part of both Firefly and Serenity, and in my review of the series - http://templetongate.net/firefly.htm - even went as far as saying she was the one whose acting impressed me the most, mainly because her role was so intriguing as well as the fact she had the least acting experience of anyone in the cast. I do not for one second think that is all of her own doing, but rather the fact that Joss and the rest of the cast and crew were so good at their jobs that they supported her every effort to do the best job possible.

Anyone who wants to claim that we have to support and praise everything that our BDHs do in the future ought to check out two different Sci-Fi "Original" movies - Mammoth and Sands of Oblivion. Summer was in the former, and Morena and Adam in the latter. Both stunk to high heaven, both in concept and execution. That is not to say that the actors didn't do the best they could with weak scripts and direction, but I can't think of an actor in history who could be so good as to overcome everything else in a production that is wrong. Possibly Olivier, but even he was in some clunkers now and then.

So in summation, watch the show or don't, it doesn't matter to me. Just don't try to tell the rest of us that we have to have the same opinion of it.

PS: I'm laying odds that TheMarked and Stoner4Life are the same person. Any takers?

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Muggi:

Quote:

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Originally posted by asarian:

P.S. Reading your nick, there, I just realized that's Quark's mother. :)

---

LOL is it really?

And I thought I was SOOO original :P Muggi Slugfingers was the name of my gnome bard in Everquest 2 and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, two online games.

p.s.: I'm a guy, and so was the character!

---

Come to think of it, I now think the term of endearment used for Quark's mother was probably "Mugi/Moogi" (which actually sounds close to the Dutch vernacular of "Moeke/Moekie", meaning: "Mother"). So, Muggi is still original, it seems. :)



--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Quote:

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You should be ashamed for what you're doing to Summer Glau. I'm taking off my brown coat. I'm done with you people.

---

I still don't understand why people equate the actor with the show..there's many, MANY instances throughout history where a very good actor has been the only bright spot in a tv show, movie, play, etc etc etc.

Why does ripping on how poorly a show is MADE have ANYTHING to do with how the actors perform? One has absolutely NOTHING to do with the other. Summer doesn't write the show any more than the writers and directors appear on-screen. This question still has not been answered.

As for not supporting Firefly when it was on tv..FULL PAGE AD IN VARIETY dude. Name me another group of fans that have pulled together the cash for that. Please don't insult those who went to extreme lengths to keep the show running.

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i've been holding off from weighing in here, mostly because i don't want to get myself all riled up, and also because people like asarian and jongsstraw and egg pretty much have my opinion covered. but the insults aimed at the original 'coats are really starting to piss me off.

you weren't there, (also, just for clarification, neither was i- i jumped into the 'verse about a month before serenity hit theaters) you have NO idea what they did/ could have done. the fact is, they did EVERYTHING they could, and quite a few things that everyone thought they really couldn't. i'm sorry, i don't think this is opinion, i think this is straight-up fact. as someone said a few posts ago, the fault then lies with YOU (and me) who weren't there in the beginning. so where the hell do you get off insulting the people who have actually been doing something long before you knew there was anything to do? another thing you have to realize is that there just weren't that many 'coats when it originally aired. there wasn't anything more they could ahve done with the troops they had.


and as someone said a minute ago, suggesting that a show a BDH is in is poorly written or executed is in NO way the same as insulting that particular BDH. mammoth is a good example.

~~~~
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature
~~
Fear is the Mind Killer
~~~~

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I randomly stumbled arcoss this page on the Mr.Skin site & Summer Glau is amounst the most searched on the site, no doubt to her wider fame for her role in The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

Here's the link if anybody wants to see for themselves:
http://www.mrskin.com/search/search

And a here is a Screenshot I took of the page, she's up their with the big guns (no pun intended).





---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/darkfly7
Knightfly on Xfire, www.xfire.com/profile/knightfly/
Want pics, vids, ringtones,ect releated to Serenity and Firefly...
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=26986

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I think the show is okay... I've only seen both versions of the pilot yet, and it's exactly what you'd expect, story and layout-wise (Sarah and John on the run, accompanied by a "good" Terminator (yummyummyummy), an FBI Agent on their trail etc... could get interesting, but I doubt it's gonna be brilliant. I guess I wouldn't even keep on watching if not for - sigh - Summer.
I got a few gripes, though - first of all, Sarah wearing a mini skirt in the opening scene. Now I don't know if you remember Sarah from T2, but she was one kick-ass gal, all muscled up and soldier-like, and she dressed accordingly. So my first thought was "That's supposed to be Sarah Connor?". Bad start. I guess some producer at Fox wanted to make the show "sexier".
The storyline was kinda boring and expected except for the time travel thing - I mean, if ANYONE were told to come up with a storyline for a Terminator TV series, I guess 90% would come up with what they cooked up.
Then there's a logical error that made me roll my eyes when the Terminator takes 5 minutes to take the safe door apart piece by piece when it can be opened from the OUTSIDE with that wheel, so all he'd have had to do was turn the f-ing wheel, but nooo, let's take the door apart for the sake of suspense.
Lastly, the T800... now I didn't expect Arnie, but the actor they chose didn't impress me in the slightest, I'm afraid.

I'll keep watching the series for Summer and hope I'm going to get positively surprised by the whole thing over time.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Dude, you never wanna f*ck with a Browncoat, man." - Kevin Smith

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This week's episode was the best so far IMO! Not so many glaring errors and finally some INTRIGUE.

My only nitpick this week, as someone over at Whedonesque also noted: a mother with Type O blood can't have a kid with Type AB. So, either Sarah is not Jon's mother, or they didn't fact-check. Given the history, I'm betting lack of fact-check. They could have gotten away with just saying, "Sarah, you're the wrong bloodtype. Hey, let's test Jon!"

The homages to the real Terminator films were nice and not generally overdone. The rubber-skinned Terminator was a GREAT touch. "There's a storm coming" was pushing it.

Still, by far their best effort. Hopefully a sign of things to come.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Smaug:
TSCC is the same way... I am enjoying it. Summer being one of the few things that isn't a problem with the show. But I am mostly disappointed... because it COULD be great, and I am hoping it still can be). But they started out with so many plot holes and bad writing and messing up cannon.. only to finally show a glimmer of promise here or there.. but then to only drop the ball again.

Oh well.. it IS only the 5th episode... I still have hope it can get better, if it doesn't get cancelled before then.

---

Pretty much agree with this, I like the show more than T3 but not as much as T2, I think there's a lot of potential that isn't being taken advantage of. Again it's early though, there's been plenty of shows where the first season falls considerably short of the later developments, I just hope that it gets the chance to develop and actually succeeds in developing itself.

While I'm on the topic, my prediction for the season or at least the next few eps, Cameron will begin acting erratically and disobeying orders, paranoia will grow (fueled by uncle Reese), until there is either a complete break (Cameron gets kicked out) or a near complete break (no one trusts her anymore). In the season finale (or possibly at the end of this particular sub-arc if it isn't the main season arc) Cameron will demonstrate that what she was doing is part of her mission from Future John and beneficial to the cause and she will be accepted back into the fold.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Muggi:
This week's episode was the best so far IMO! Not so many glaring errors and finally some INTRIGUE.

---

100% agree. This one was by far the best. It had a lot of action and some intrigue to it. I was horrible at following who was who in the future. I thought they could have done better at choosing some actors who looked different from each other enough that the audience could tell who was who.

I'm guessing everyone else is assuming the music in the basement of that place had something to do with cameron. My guess is she has some mind reading abilities or something. The Reese guy probably feels responsible for their base being stormed because Cameron got the info out of him.

Does it seem like Cameron is gathering up parts for potential repairs or upgrades? I just don't get why she would torch the other terminator if that was the case. At least her mission has me somewhat interested.

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I'm a LITTLE scared by the preview of next's week show..it says Cameron starts taking ballet lessons to track down someone they're looking for...

If they do it well, it will be a nice use of their actor's skills, but it could get crowbarred for just the same reason.

lil scared. Just have to wait and see.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Muggi:

This week's episode was the best so far IMO! Not so many glaring errors and finally some INTRIGUE.

---

Agreed. This was the first episode that, from time to time, I was actually caught up in.

The twerp, other than looking whiney a lot, contributed nothing. And Sarah was her usual unpleasant self again. But the rubber-skinned Terminator was, indeed, a great touch. And I liked the underground tunnel stuff somehow, as well as the glimpe we got into the development of the time-machine thingy. And Summer acted great again. Also, though I freely admit to not fully 'getting' the music, it was intriguing nonetheless.

Who knows, with the strike being over, perhaps they can now gather enough writers to turn this thing around. It really doesn't have to be doomed. After all, there's no fate but what we make for ourselves. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Zeek:
At least her mission has me somewhat interested.

---

To be honest Cameron is really the main reason why I'm watching still and I do mean Cameron not Summer (though I imagine most other actresses wouldn't play the part as well). To me the writing for Sarah and John has probably been the worst, both of them seem too far off of their T2 personas for me to really accept them and the differences aren't improvements. Cameron on the other hand has lots of interesting unanswered questions and behaves like she should. I too am very interested in finding out her mission parameters and seeing the development of her character.

As a side note, am I the only one who decided to buy the Ultimate Edition DVD of T2 because of TSCC? I can't wait to see the 18(?) extra minutes of footage from T2.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by ecgordon:
I find it highly illogical for those who didn't discover the 'verse until the movie to be criticizing those of us who did watch the series when it was originally on the air. Where were you then? We may be able to lay the blame on the FOX execs who didn't give it a good timeslot, refused to air the pilot first, altered the order of the other episodes, and generally under-promoted the show. However, it is people like you who were not watching it that caused its cancellation, not those of us who were watching and trying desperately to get the attention of others.

---

Just like to say, Im 19, and English. I have sci-fi channel now, but I didn't at the time. I am not allowed to criticise you on anything because I couldn't find out about firefly until after serenity? Im sorry but that sounds so elitist that my brain might fall out. Yes I realise this is my first post here, I have been lurking waiting for a situation where I could actually provide a relevant response.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Nox:

I am not allowed to criticise you on anything because I couldn't find out about firefly until after serenity?

---

They say never to criticize someone 'fore you walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them... you're a mile away! :)

Seriously, though, didn't say 'not allowed'; said 'illogical'. Telling veteran Browncoats they haven't done enough would be like me faulting Einstein for not having licked quantum mechanics yet: it's not that I'm not allowed to say it, but I would certainly look silly doing so, as the man already left his marks in the field, whereas I have not at all.

Quote:

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I'm sorry but that sounds so elitist that my brain might fall out.

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Like the Capissen 38 engine, these things happen. :) But here's a flat fact: the Impossible was Done by the Fandom-That-Was, not by the Fandom-That-Wasn't. Can't say as I feel a need to blame the latter for their absence; but sure as I know anything, I know this: I won't blame the former for their presence!

Quote:

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I have been lurking waiting for a situation where I could actually provide a relevant response.

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The 'Verse offers second chances. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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I was directing my comments to TheMarked, who was criticizing Browncoats for not having done enough to keep the show on the air or get it picked up by another network. Obviously, if you were not aware of the show at the time it originally aired there was nothing you could have done about it. Just don't trash those of us who did try what we thought were the right things only to fall short. That would be as silly as blaming Joss Whedon for not doing enough simply because he couldn't get another network interested in the series.




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by ecgordon:
I find it highly illogical for those who didn't discover the 'verse until the movie to be criticizing those of us who did watch the series when it was originally on the air. Where were you then? We may be able to lay the blame on the FOX execs who didn't give it a good timeslot, refused to air the pilot first, altered the order of the other episodes, and generally under-promoted the show. However, it is people like you who were not watching it that caused its cancellation, not those of us who were watching and trying desperately to get the attention of others.

---

You know, I don't want to be a jerk or anything, but for the brief period of time this show was on the air, I was busy serving in the United States Marine Corps. I got out in 2004, and the next year, Serenity came out.

Serenity was the first time I was really able to get into the Firefly universe, and when I first saw it, I had no clue there was anything else to the story. But throughout watching it, I kept getting a nagging feeling that there was a lot more going on behind the scenes; references to things they don't explain, the way the characters and actors all worked great together. I later found out that there was a show, that had already been on the air, and got canceled.

So where was I then? I was defending your right to sit on your couch and watch TV.

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Fid, i don't think anyone's criticizing the folks that weren't 'there' for whatever reason (i myself did not own a television in 2002... not as good a reason as yours!), we're simply pointing out that it's a little- i believe the word used was illogical?- for them to criticize the ones that were.

~~~~
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature
~~
Fear is the Mind Killer
~~~~

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Yeah, guys, you're taking that statement the wrong way. It was directed at the guy above, who was basically saying people that DID watch the show on network should have done more to keep it going.

He wasn't implying that people that did NOT know of the show are somehow to blame.

And, thank you for your service.

And, hi to the U.K.

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@all:

I do wish you'd listen! It's perfectly simple. If you didn't watch Firefly at the time, you don't have to be blamed. You simply watch it before lunch, after you've read the shooting script, when you've written your letter home, before rest, move your DVD into the player, greet the Big Damn Heroes, and report to Joss that you signed up as volunteer. :)

I hope it's clear now!


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Thanks to those who tried to explain what I was saying, and I still find it hard to believe others misinterpreted it or didn't realize I was specifically addressing a previous poster who was criticizing original Browncoats for not doing enough to save the show.

Fidsah, you are most definitely not a jerk, and your service to your country, and to all of us, is most appreciated. I hope you don't get any other kind of feedback about that from anyone.

Now, let's put this particular argument behind us and get back to the discussion of the show this thread is dedicated to, The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by ecgordon:
Now, let's put this particular argument behind us and get back to the discussion of the show this thread is dedicated to, The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

---

Perhaps a new thread to definitively leave behind the ugliness?

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Now that that's settled, let's all get nekkid and have make-up sex.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Dude, you never wanna f*ck with a Browncoat, man." - Kevin Smith

I think that cats know the deepest secrets of the universe, but they don't give a shit.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Agatsu:
Now that that's settled, let's all get nekkid and have make-up sex.

---

Have to ask for a pic first but I might be game...

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Another winner last night. Good plot, the dancing was worked in well (a concern of mine), and not TOO many cheezy lines.

The "I'll always come for you" exchange was a bit of heavy-handed foreshadowing IMO.

Cameron leaving the Russians to die was a good twist. Fit the character perfectly.

I disliked their choice for Sarah's old doctor..such a radical change from the film guy, I had no clue who he was supposed to be until he started telling the story. Someone bald, thin and tall would have been better..also kinda getting tired of seeing Bruce Davison play Disturbed Doctor X in every freaking tv show.

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ooooppss!!! double post.

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I loved the 7th episode and the expression of Derek on the last scene.

It's really nice to see Summer dance. I think the writers are doing really well on the last stretch of the show. Less of the bad terminators and more on Cameron and flashbacks works well for me.

I just wait for the 2 hours finale of this show... They say it's a cliffhanger.

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At day's end, we have a fair amount of episodes now, 'bout a third of them winners. :)

Nr. 7 weren't all that bad, either. Sarah and her ever sour demeanour still annoys me, but Summer was great again! And I loved the "hand delivery" pun on the envelope. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Here is a link to an interview via conference call with series creator Josh Friedman and actor Brian Austin Green, who portrays Derek Reese on the show.

If you have been following the news regarding this show most of the conversation will not be informative, but it is current having been posted 02/28/08 the same day the conversation took place.

http://www.movieweb.com/tv/news/56/26956.php

____________

River: Midbulk transport. Standard radion accelerator core. Class-code 03-K64. Firefly.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Muggi:
[I disliked their choice for Sarah's old doctor..such a radical change from the film guy, I had no clue who he was supposed to be until he started telling the story. Someone bald, thin and tall would have been better..also kinda getting tired of seeing Bruce Davison play Disturbed Doctor X in every freaking tv show.

---

Earl Boen played Dr. Silberman in all 3 Terminator movies. His IMDB resume shows that he has not worked since 2006, and has nothing in the works. So either the producers didn't want him, or he didn't want to do it. A veteran of over 200 TV shows, I remembered Earl from a 1979 episode of Buck Rogers where he played a telepath who sold info obtained from reading people's minds to the highest bidder. I though his brief part in T3 was quite terrific.

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This isn't good news at all. According to this article, if the ratings aren't good after Monday night's 2 hour finale.......the show will be gone.

http://www.tv.yahoo.com/slideshow/229/photos/1

FOX is very unforgiving to new show's. Notice how NBC gave Chuck a chance? I sincerely hope Joss has better luck with 'Dollhouse'.

I enjoyed T:SCC and thought it was an excellent show. I am so damn sick of the reality shows and I will be sad to see this show go.....

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Muggi:
This week's episode was the best so far IMO! Not so many glaring errors and finally some INTRIGUE.

---

I agree, that was a great episode

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Alright.. Since it would be a little bit longer before we get to see that finale.

I'd like to post a link to wondercon 2008. Hope you guys listen well.

here's the link:

enjoy...

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They damn well better give them some more episodes. It can't end like that!

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I sent an email to FOX tonight shortly after the show ended, asking them to please renew it for another season. Usually all you can expect is a form letter reply, thanking you for your interest. This time it only took 11 minutes for someone there to reply that TSCC is still under consideration for renewal. I think as many people as possible should be emailing them or writing them snail mail letters letting them know we want more.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by ecgordon:
I sent an email to FOX tonight shortly after the show ended, asking them to please renew it for another season. Usually all you can expect is a form letter reply, thanking you for your interest. This time it only took 11 minutes for someone there to reply that TSCC is still under consideration for renewal. I think as many people as possible should be emailing them or writing them snail mail letters letting them know we want more.

---

It would be a kindness if you'd paste in the contact info about how to email the network , E-C !

Meanwhile , am rushing a thread to ALL BROWNCOATS !

Summer needs our help !

< http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=32875>

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Their email is askfox@fox.com

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Summer was really great last night. I thought the season finale was quite satisfying, and I definitely want to see more.

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My favorite line so far...

Who's car is this?

It belongs to the guy I killed and stuffed in the trunk....

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Quote:

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Originally posted by ecgordon:
Their email is askfox@fox.com

---

Much obliged...Thanks , E-C !



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http://www.takebackthefuture.com/

http://www.fox.com/fod/player.htm?show=tscc

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I especially liked the...

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massacre of the police state death squad. Good photography too. Very artsy for a massacre.

And don't waste time on silly birthdays or bad things can happen. Not bad advice.

New season? Or terminator dead. Game over man. Game over.

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Had a touch of Joss, but without all that pesky humor.

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"How can I get the Captain to shoot a cop in the face, and make it right? That extra moment of sadism - that's the thing that says it's okay, buddy, you're not up to spec, you're going down!"
-Joss the Boss, Firefly DVD, censored Episode 1 "Serenity"

Firefly Music Video: Tangerine dream - Confrontation, Thief soundtrack
www.megavideo.com/?v=JVT35GR8

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The Summer Glau Chronicles: Free download of all episodes
http://www.fox.com/fod/player.htm?show=tscc

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eh it was OK. Derick needs to be a bit more careful about the space time continuum.

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So, did they pretty much cut Summer's job by blowing all the skin off of Cameron?

Fox Exec: "thanks for all your hard work but we're just gonna CGI cameron from now on" *hands over pink slip*

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Originally posted by Zeek:
eh it was OK. Derick needs to be a bit more careful about the space time continuum.

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So, did they pretty much cut Summer's job by blowing all the skin off of Cameron?

Fox Exec: "thanks for all your hard work but we're just gonna CGI cameron from now on" *hands over pink slip*

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Yeah, I was wondering that too;

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Though I figure because she kept all that skin from the other robot they'll be able to rebuild her, but maybe as another actress... I mean, we know she isn't dead, just a simple car bomb; but the skin has to be gone unless somehow she magically got out her face far enough out of the car before it exploded.

I also thought the FBI raid with Johnny Cash was a great touch, but why did it spare Ellison? I can't think of a good reason, can you?

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There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.

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Just spoilers from the last episode. I don't know anything about the future of the show.

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I don't have any idea either. The only thing I could think of is that it's not his mission and he didn't see Ellison as a direct threat.

Not a great explanation though since to him none of those FBI agents were a real threat. They weren't going to hurt him really just mess up his skin a bit.

Though I still don't give the writers much credit, it could be that Ellison plays a role in the creation of skynet and Cromartie scanned his face and got a message not to mess with him. That would be the best solution and it would make a cool reveal a lot later in the show.

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dude, they

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blew her up! they just.. blew her friggin up!

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not cool, man

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98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature
~~
Fear is the Mind Killer
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Heh, your spoiler reminds me of a line in "Battle of Britain"

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He blew up! He just blew up!

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There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.

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I loved the last 2 episodes!

I like the episode 8 most because of the way John defends Cameron. It gave me the tingly tingly sensation inside. Heheheh! Must be acid.

And the massacre scene was cool, blue pool and body counts. For a moment there I thought there was an audio problem with my player or someone recorded something on the audio of the vid that it sounded too different. But it was really part of the scene.

As far as Cameron blowing up, she'll survive. And I doubt that all her skin will burn up. I remember the poster, with her hangin just the upper body and head. Interesting...

If they use a different actress in season 2 if ever there is a season 2, I don't think it will be as effective as this season. Summer was awesome. I also enjoyed the "is this your car?" scene. Really Funny.

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this show is fantastic

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When I first heard that Summer was going to be in T:SCC I jumped for joy. I was really looking forward to watching this series and supporting my girl. Summer is truly a gifted actor.

Overall, I was disappointed. This series lack that special something that makes for great Sci-Fi. Both my son and I are Sci-Fi geeks. We love a good yarn.
The writing in this series was pretty much hit and miss, very inconsistent. Believe me, I wanted to like this series but could not find the magic, like in the original movie - Terminator and T2.

Firefly definitely had it from day one, despite the fact that Fox aired the episodes out of sequence. It irks me that Fox is promoting the hell out of this series and that it pretty much left it alone in the same time slot (rarely preempting). Not so with Firefly. But I think it's because Terminator is a known brand. I too would like to know what Cameron thinks of this series.

Come with me if you want to live!

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Well, I've been enjoying the show - they better do another series pronto after leaving all those teasers hanging... Unless I've missed things, the following are still dangling tantalizingly:

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Why did Cromartie not kill Ellison when he had the chance? It looked almost blade-runner-esque. "Boring" explanation is that he's unintentionally helping Cromartie find Sarah.

What was going on in the bit when, before being sent back, Derek is captured, held and released? What happened in the room in the cellar with the music? Did he meet someone who had taken up dancing...? Methinks there is something that Derek isn't telling...

Is there more to the woman from the ID forger's house than meets the eye? She and Cameron seem to have some sort of unspoken understanding...

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I got the slight impression that they'd run out of money for stunts and FX in this episode - and while the "is that your car" and the Johnny Cash/Swimming pool sequence were excellent examples of how to do more with less.

Sadly, however, the big cliffhanger is the least nail-biting cliffhanger I've seen since the one in Farscape where Aeryn "dies" by drowning in ice cold water on a planet stacked with futuristic cryogenics equipment (dammit, even the ER guys would have had her back on her feet on a lazy plot day!)

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I mean, the explosion didn't even blow the car apart - it might have been bad news for a human, but Cameron is going to have the door off and be out so fast that, at worst, she'll spend a few days looking like she forgot the sunblock (she seems to heal fairly quickly).

Now, if we'd seen some shady figure breaking into the Connors' garage and raiding Camaron's supply of endoskeleton-melting thermite before the explosion, we might actually be worried...

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