Hillary and Bill - Biggest liars EVER to live in the White House

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Thursday, April 16, 2026 18:55
VIEWED: 6001
PAGE 1 of 1

And it might be Hillary who is the bigger scoundrel of the two....


“She was an unethical, dishonest lawyer. She conspired to violate the Constitution, the
rules of the House, the rules of the committee and the rules of
confidentiality.”

- J. Zeifman - Former Chief Counsel Committee on Judiciary U.S. House of Representatives.

From NealsNuze....

" Ok .. so here we go with the abbreviated version of Hillary's shenanigans when she was working for the House Judiciary Committee during the Nixon impeachment mess. If you want the full story click here to read the column by Dan Calabrese.
Hillary Rodham gets a spot on the legal staff of the House Judiciary Committee upon the recommendation of a lawyer pal of Ted Kennedy.
The man who hires Hillary is Jerry Zeifman, a lifelong Democrat.
The House Judiciary Committee is investigating Richard Nixon with an eye on impeachment.
A question arises as to whether or not Nixon is legally entitled to counsel during the investigation. If so, his council would be allowed to cross examine witnesses appearing before the panel.
The concern about having counsel for Nixon cross examine witnesses centered on E. Howard Hunt. Democrats on the committee feared that Nixon's counsel would elicit information from Hunt that would be very damaging to the Kennedys.
Zeifman tells Hillary that Nixon is entitled to counsel. He cites documents in the committee's public file referencing the fact that Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas had representation four years earlier while he was being investigated.
Hillary removes the documents from the committees public file and places them under lock and key in her office where they are not available for media or public scrutiny.
Hillary then prepares a brief for filing with a federal judge which falsely states that there is no precedent for an official being investigated by the committee to have legal representation during that investigation.
Nixon resigns before Hillary has a chance to submit the brief in which she makes knowingly false claims.
Zeifman then fires Hillary. Hillary asks for a letter of recommendation. Zeifman says no. This was only the third time in Zeifman's 17 years with the committee that he had refused a letter of recommendation. "



-------------------------------------------------



Article by Dan
Calabrese

March 31, 2008
Watergate-Era Judiciary Chief of Staff: Hillary Clinton Fired For Lies, Unethical Behavior

As Hillary Clinton came under increasing scrutiny for her story about facing sniper fire in Bosnia, one question that arose was whether she has engaged in a pattern of lying.

The now-retired general counsel and chief of staff of the House Judiciary Committee, who supervised Hillary when she worked on the Watergate investigation, says Hillary’s history of lies and unethical behavior goes back farther – and goes much deeper – than anyone realizes.

Jerry Zeifman, a lifelong Democrat, supervised the work of 27-year-old Hillary Rodham on the committee. Hillary got a job working on the investigation at the behest of her former law professor, Burke Marshall, who was also Sen. Ted Kennedy’s chief counsel in the Chappaquiddick affair. When the investigation was over, Zeifman fired Hillary from the committee staff and refused to give her a letter of recommendation – one of only three people who earned that dubious distinction in Zeifman’s 17-year career.

Why?

“Because she was a liar,” Zeifman said in an interview last week. “She was an unethical, dishonest lawyer. She conspired to violate the Constitution, the rules of the House, the rules of the committee and the rules of confidentiality -

http://www.northstarwriters.com/dc163.htm

www.jzeifman.com








It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Present occupant excepted.



I must say, I appreciate how you've made it just as easy to identify your threads by title as Piratenews does. Save time. Thanks.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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She's a politician, and a good one. She survived and prospered post 9/11,and very few could do that without lying.

So of course, I don't think her and Bill incapable of lying. I think they are probably exceptional at it, which is why I'm so baffled by her bosnia statements -that's just not something you do when you're a politician as deft and careful as she is..and regardless of whatever bullshit you might hold to that says the contrary, the media has loved to go after her and Bill...she knew better than to think she could slip something like that by people.

............

But even if that first part of your post is entirely and completely accurate, the sheer excess of dishonesty spewing from this current Office trumps all of it...doesn't make it right mind you...and please do follow up on providing proof of what she did and its illegality(I'm equal opportunity when it comes to government corruption)...

but come on....seriously?

just because they fool more of the people more of the time than Bush does, it still pales to bush's "you can fool some of the people all of the time...and those are the ones you want to concentrate on" mentality about whether or not the truth is ever neccesary.

Hell, at least Hillary took back her Bosnia claim.

Bush has never lied, ever, according to him and his 28 percent. Like when he told us there was no domestic spying..."you need a wiretap to do that", or when we kept finding yellow cake in the speeches even after they were asked to remove references to it by the cia, or when he told us Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, that has resulted in estimates of over 100,000 iraqi deaths and over 4,000 American deaths, and has contributed in a big way to a recession back home...though I give him more credit than that for the reccession...that's one baby he's worked overtime to provide for.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Righteous9:

Bush has never lied, ever, according to him and his 28 percent.

---

I think 'Rap makes up at least 5% of that 28%, just on the sheer force of his fervent denial.

He'll be back momentarily with his standard "Bush has never lied - ever" response. And when faced with evidence, he'll vanish from the thread, or give the Obi-Wan defense ("He was telling the truth all along...from a certain point of view").



"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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It's clear you 2 clowns aren't reading the post, and are overlooking what this man, a LIFE LONG DEMOCRAT is saying about Hillary Rodham. She conspired to tamper w/ an Impeachment trial, and was on the verge of submitting a brief which would have clearly gotten her disbarred, had Nixon not resigned. She took and hid public documents ( wow, how unlike her ! ) and lied about it. This trumps what ever IMAGINARY thing you claim Bush lied about, but we'll never know, since you can't come up w/ a single thing Bush lied about, specifically as it relates to the Iraq war. But then, you never had to, because the bumper sticker slogan sounded so good, and was so easy to remember, no one dared to even call you Libs on your B.S. You just kept shouting it over and over again, louder and louder, and never once have you ever had to produce a single lie by Bush. And you do this, all the while you ignore, dismiss, explain away ALL of Clinton's lies, one after another.

And Hillary never did come clean on the 'Bosnia' lie. She said she " misspoke" . That's another lie. She didn't misspeak any damn thing. Misspeaking would have her getting the dates wrong, or the airport mixed up. No, SHE FABRICATED THE ENTIRE STORY! IT NEVER HAPPENED ! Despite her claims of how vividly she remembered the cork screw landing and having to duck and run for cover from the plane to the base...... NONE OF THAT EVER HAPPENED! Sinbad said it never happened. Sheryl Crow didn't back up the story, nor did the CBS FILM CREW take any photos of any of that happening, as they were there too!

And yet Hillary, was there first hand, said it DID happen! That, folks, is the basic making of a LIE !

A lie isn't being wrong. A lie isn't repeating something you were told was factual that later turns out to be in error. A lie isn't being told something is a " slam dunk " , when in fact it's not. THOSE AREN'T LIES. What Hillary tells, those are lies.

Learn the difference.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Didn't overlook anything (that's your department). Not saying they're not liars. Hell, it's a given, they're politicians.

But next to Bush? They're practically paragons to honesty.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Quote:

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She took and hid public documents ( wow, how unlike her ! ) and lied about it.

---

Wow, let's see... Cheney hid the Energy Commission findings. Bush hid the actual costs of the Medicate Drug Program. Gonzales hid the torture memo. Bush hid the wiretapping program. Neither Bush nor Cheney would testify under oath b4 the 9-11 Commission. Bush lied about the state of Social Security. He lied about his relationship with Ken Lay. He has lied repeatedly about Iran's nuclear capability. Cheney lied about his own lies! (I have never said there was a connection between Iraq and 9-11.)

We all get that Hillary lied, but to call "the Clintons" the BIGGEST liars ever.....??? Huh. Where are your frontal lobes, Auraptor? You must have misplaced them somewhere.


www.unknownnews.net/logoflies.html
www.bushlies.net/liesatoz.html


---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Righteous9:
I think they are probably exceptional at it, which is why I'm so baffled by her bosnia statements ...she knew better than to think she could slip something like that by people.

---

I am baffled too. It's a given that they're big fat liars. But as you say, up to now, they've been exceptional at it. This is a grossly inept lie, the kind you tell to get caught on purpose.

I suspect she's throwing the race, or attempting to throw the race. The question is, why? Blackmail? Bribery?

How is she doing in the polls nowadays?

--------------------------
When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.
--P. J. O'Rourke

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I LOVE how you try to turn this egregious conduct of a young Ms Rodham and some how twist it around to make it sound bad for Bush. First of all, this has nothing to DO with Bush. Second of all, the list you present isn't in any way a list of 'lies', nor are these things even in the same ball park as to what Hillary did. Her actions were FAR worse.

Cheney didn't have to reveal what private citizens told him
Hiding cost are what most politicians do
There was no 'torture' memo.
Bush hid no wiretapping program, as there is none as YOU describe it.
Bush and Cheney did testify before the 9/11 Commission. Bush didn't lie about the state of social security. It's on its death bed and Bush said so. He never lied about Ken Lay. Iran's nuclear capability is a point of great concern for the U.N., but Bush didn't lie about that either. Cheney didn't lie about Iraq and 9/11.... you just keep propping up these straw men arguments as if there's something to them, over and over, but you have NOTHING.

Yes, the Clinton's are THE MOST DECEPTIVE , PETTY and ILLEGAL occupants of the White House - EVER.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Storymark:

But next to Bush? They're practically paragons to honesty.

---

Possibly the biggest distortion of fact ever delivered in the English language. Nothing could be more fully opposed to the truth, nothing more diametrically opposite from reality.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Although it is hard to beat the King of Whoppers FDR, the co-presidents certainly took the cake, and keep it. If they get in again, will they have the top 2 positions, or combined into just one?

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Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Possibly the biggest distortion of fact ever delivered in the English language. Nothing could be more fully opposed to the truth, nothing more diametrically opposite from reality.

---

I just had to post this again. It deserves to be saved from accidental erasure for posterity.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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well shit...Auraptor has spoken(not with his mouth mind you...that's too full of Neocon Jizz at the moment)...

what I find remarkable is that generally speaking, Democrats, liberals, liberatrians on this board have not had a hard time calling a spade a spade in any party...the funny part is that nobody disputes she lied..nobody even disputes that her saying she mispoke is probably a load of horseshit....

Seriously...the truth isn't as bitter as what you're swallowing...you should try some.

but you and your ilk Auraptor, are undaunted...do you really need a daddy that badly that you can't look critically at a person in office if your handlers tell you he's Jesus' second coming and Patton wrapped up in one...

..........

Let's just start with one item and try to clear it up shall we?

Are you suggesting there were no wiretaps on people who were U.S. citizens without the acquisition of a Fisa Warrant? Because Bush certainly got up in front of the American people and said there were none.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Storymark:

But next to Bush? They're practically paragons to honesty.

---

Possibly the biggest distortion of fact ever delivered in the English language. Nothing could be more fully opposed to the truth, nothing more diametrically opposite from reality.

---

Thank you for the late night laugh.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Cheney didn't lie about Iraq and 9/11....

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Christ, what the hell are you on, kid? He's been caught on video saying they were connected (a lie), and then again on tape saying he never said that(another lie).

How deluded are you?

Wait, nevermind. You answer that with ever post.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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This probably depends upon what your definition of then word "is" is.
Lying under oath (Slick) and in court (Hillary) are different from lying to the press, or lying to youtube, or lying to the Russians.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Righteous9:


what I find remarkable is that generally speaking, Democrats, liberals, liberatrians on this board have not had a hard time calling a spade a spade in any party...the funny part is that nobody disputes she lied..nobody even disputes that her saying she mispoke is probably a load of horseshit....

Seriously...the truth isn't as bitter as what you're swallowing...you should try some.

but you and your ilk Auraptor, are undaunted...do you really need a daddy that badly that you can't look critically at a person in office if your handlers tell you he's Jesus' second coming and Patton wrapped up in one...

..........

Let's just start with one item and try to clear it up shall we?

Are you suggesting there were no wiretaps on people who were U.S. citizens without the acquisition of a Fisa Warrant? Because Bush certainly got up in front of the American people and said there were none.

---

I LOVE how you are now trying to turn this story around to not involving Hillary - AT ALL. Sorry, but I'm not gonna play that game. Want to discuss other's short comings ? Start your own thread. But to answer you anyway, yes, no wire taps were on people solely in the U.S. unless they were in conversation w/ known suspects from outside the country. You have to reveal the whole story first before you can have an honest conversation.

And knock off the crude side comments. It only takes away from what little legitimacy you have here. Smarmy comments like yours don't make your case any stronger and aren't nearly as cute and clever as you may think.


It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Storymark:

Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Cheney didn't lie about Iraq and 9/11....

---

Christ, what the hell are you on, kid? He's been caught on video saying they were connected (a lie), and then again on tape saying he never said that(another lie).

How deluded are you?

Wait, nevermind. You answer that with ever post.

---

Cheney was not caught on tape saying they were connected. At issue is what the Czech's said they could confirm, or not confirm, about Atta meeting an Iraqi official in Prague. 7 seconds of video taken out of context isn't exactly damning evidence. Sorry. He said it was neither confirmed or denied. And if the intel he got DID say it was " pretty well confirmed " , and he repeats that, so frackin' what ? He's suppose to say " Well, intel might SAY that, but I know more than what my intel is telling me , so I'll just say what ever I want ? " Sorry, that's not what happened. And you know it.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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I spent so many years hating and despising the Clintons that there is nothing left inside of me to feel anything about them anymore except a little over-due respect.

Bill Clinton : 8 years as President...My life was very good during those years. I don't think he did anything extraordinarily bad, with the single exception of not dealing with Al Qaida and their attacks on Americans and American's interests. As a "feared" Democrat, those fears proved to be quite un-true, as I do not recall any adverse effects concerning my Federal taxes...if there was a tax increase I don't recall feeling it. I do recall that I made a nice nest-egg of money buying and selling stocks for about 8 years. The whole Monica thing for me was ridiculous and absurd. Special Prosecutors!...Henry Hyde Impeachment madness!...For what? It was a political lynching of the most vile kind. And the bottom line to it all was that Clinton had the last laugh....he went on to make mega-millions, and is still revered today as a great President by many. His legacy is that he is perhaps the last President who served during good & normal times. I don't blame Bush for the 911 attacks, but I do blame him for promulgating and perpetuating this weird, funky malaise that we have found ourselves in during the last 8 years. It's like everything has stopped, and the only thing we have to live with and hear about every f'ing day is terrorism this & terrorism that. I'm f'ing sick of it. Yes we have to deal with it, but we don't have to make it the central focus of our social or political culture. Just like I don't want to hear about the Pizza Hut delivery guy in one-tooth, Tennessee getting mugged 3 times either. The Bush era has perfected a culture of deceit and blunders, something quite new and shocking for old fogies like me.

Hillary Clinton : I don't hate her anymore...I actually have to admire her, if only for her courage to get up every day and face what she faces every day. The media are all too willing to throw her under the bus these days...I think that's an indictment against them, not her. They were the ones with the love-fest going on for 16 years, but now they're all gaga over Obama. She must be feeling a lot of pain, as one by one, all her friends and former trusted allies are abandoning and betraying her. She works hard every day...then she gets up and puts on her make up and gets ready to face the meat-grinder every day. So what if she exaggerates about Bosnia experience? So What? It doesn't mean squat...what irks me about is that the media has nothing better to do than investigate every fucking gotcha opportunity they can.....just to sell their stupid show to some stupid advertiser...if they're gonna go gotcha-shopping about everything a candidate says during a campaign, then we're all gonna be hammered with one "scandal" after the next for the next 5 months. Enough already....nobody remembers these things anyhow once their shelf-life expires.

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It's folly to try to argue with someone suffering from pervasive delusions. I suggest that we don't even try.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
I LOVE how you are now trying to turn this story around to not involving Hillary - AT ALL.

---

Read: Stop trying to put my rediculous claim into context by showing that the current Admin has lied just as much or more! This is a Clinton bashing thread! Take you actual discourse elsewhere!!!!

We acknowledge that she lied. We don't like it either, and we are making no excuses for it. We're just pointing out, that no matter how much you try to rationalize it, your boys are LIARS, too. You want to be taken even slightly seriously, get some perspective.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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BTW- How's that economy going, 'Rap?

Maybe we should PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY!

Put all of our retirement money into REAL ESTATE and the STOCK MARKET!

Gawd, it's like listening to a crazy-man.



---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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You are responsible for the focus of htis post auraptor...you made a ridiculous claim...not that Bill and Hillary are liars, but that they are the biggest liars ever to live in the White House. Now given our current Commander in Chief, how the hell did you not expect your thread to go the way it has?

If you hadn't done that, I'm sure somebody would have brought up how much of a liar Bush is, but then you could have legitimately said, "that's not the point." As it is, it is the point, because its in the title of your own frikken thread.
...................


I'll get back to you on the wiretapping when I have time later.

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And with May Day celebrations almost upon us, at least we know who to hand the basket, right ?

I'm trying not to laug... oh hell, I can't even say THAT with a straight face.

Nothing left to do but throw rotten fruit, in this one.

*laughs and wings a soggy tomato*

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Storymark:

Read: Stop trying to put my rediculous claim into context by showing that the current Admin has lied just as much or more! This is a Clinton bashing thread! Take you actual discourse elsewhere!!!!

We acknowledge that she lied. We don't like it either, and we are making no excuses for it. We're just pointing out, that no matter how much you try to rationalize it, your boys are LIARS, too. You want to be taken even slightly seriously, get some perspective.

---

Hillary stole public documents and then planned to deny a sitting President his Constitutional RIGHT to counsel ! You show me where Bush has done 1/1000th anything so egregious as that, and then I'll clam up. Show me where he LIED, PLEASE!

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

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Nothing could be more fully opposed to the truth, "

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....Than the Bush Administration.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SignyM:
BTW- How's that economy going, 'Rap?

Maybe we should PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY!

Put all of our retirement money into REAL ESTATE and the STOCK MARKET!

Gawd, it's like listening to a crazy-man.

Let's party like it's 1929.

---

You could put your $$ in Gold, then you'd be making a mint!

Yeah, best just keep your $$ in a bogus Gov't supported ( well, not really supported, more like mandated ) Ponzi scheme and watch it all fizzle to nothing, just about the time you're due to retire.

Brilliant!!



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Quote:

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Originally posted by oldenglanddry:

Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Nothing could be more fully opposed to the truth,
"

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....Than the Bush Administration.

---

If only there was some evidence to back up your claim.

*sigh*

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Storymark:

Read: Stop trying to put my rediculous claim into context by showing that the current Admin has lied just as much or more! This is a Clinton bashing thread! Take you actual discourse elsewhere!!!!

We acknowledge that she lied. We don't like it either, and we are making no excuses for it. We're just pointing out, that no matter how much you try to rationalize it, your boys are LIARS, too. You want to be taken even slightly seriously, get some perspective.

---

Hillary stole public documents and then planned to deny a sitting President his Constitutional RIGHT to counsel ! You show me where Bush has done 1/1000th anything so egregious as that, and then I'll clam up. Show me where he LIED, PLEASE!

---

Yeah, Hillary's pretty bad. That why I don't support her.

As for Bush's lies, what's the point? Dozens of times, they've been listed. You just rationalize them away.

I'm not here to debate you. You've proven countless times in discussions with me, and many others far more skilled at debate than either of us that it's pointless - you are perpetually blind to the man's shortcomings. I'm just here to mock your lock-stepping dedication.

Like others do with Piratenews. You are his wingnut equal (minus the flood of bad pictures). Call it a hobby. You used to piss me off, now you bring happiness to my day every time you do this. I thank you for that.

Cheers.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

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Originally posted by oldenglanddry:

Quote:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Nothing could be more fully opposed to the truth,
"

---

Quote:

---

....Than the Bush Administration.


If only there was some evidence to back up your claim.

*sigh*

---

---

So, Cheney was being entirely honest in that clip above?

And the fun never stops...

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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How about this one?

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Auraptor: One can achieve all sorts of delusions by only hearing news after going through the liberal filter. Since we have not done this for so long, it can become difficult (at least for me) to dream of all the wacky conclusions they come up with, and trying to understnad how they can keep their blinders on is exasperating. But remember, most of them will one day wake up and become conservatives.
But thanks for the entertainment. Many of us don't have the time to respond and try to educate them.

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:

There was no 'torture' memo.

---

Except this, one, I guess.

http://lawofwar.org/Yoo_Delahunty_Memo.htm

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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damn double-post...

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Auraptor: One can achieve all sorts of delusions by only hearing news after going through the liberal filter. Since we have not done this for so long, it can become difficult (at least for me) to dream of all the wacky conclusions they come up with, and trying to understnad how they can keep their blinders on is exasperating. But remember, most of them will one day wake up and become conservatives.
But thanks for the entertainment. Many of us don't have the time to respond and try to educate them.

---

Keep chuggin that kool-aid....

As we all know, reality has a liberal bias.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Y'all think that by comparing me to PN, that I'll some how quit or something? Hardly. I'll converse w/ those willing to do likewise.

From the clip above, no, Cheney wasn't lying. And this is how I'll " explain it away", as you put it. The Prague meeting between Atta and Iraqi officals remains a mystery. We're going on Czech intel, so what ever reason Cheney has to believe in that source is for anyone to guess. If they told him it happened, and he believes their info is credible, what's he suppose to say? Sure, when asked specifically if he said " x,y,z... " , he may have SAID that , but the bigger issue is whether or not the Administration tried to overtly tie Iraq in w/ the 9/11 attacks. All Cheney et al did was point out the known ( or presumed known ) facts as they knew them at the time. It was certainly rational to include Iraq in a list of possible candidates, and that's all Cheney or Bush or anyone said on the matter. There was no wide spread , hard sell by the Administration on connecting Iraq w/ the 9/11 attacks, and that's the main point here.

i think a better case could be made if we saw more than just 5 seconds of Cheney's words from a video clip from several yrs ago.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by Veteran:
How about this one?

---

First of all, not relevant to the question of us going into Iraq. Second, you can see the point he's making, that he isn't obligated to tell the press EVERYTHING, especially when its tied so closely to an upcoming election. It's like a reporter asking a college football coach if he's going to take a new job or stay at the school he's at presently. Until the coach takes the new job, it doesn't do him or his current school any good to say he's looking to take a new job. So, until he decides, he simply tells everyone he plans on coming back next year. If he says he's looking to leave, it'll harm recruiting for his current school, and then if he doesn't get the job, he's screwed himself and his team. So it's best just to keep quiet on the issue until the situation is resolved. ( Personally, I wish Bush had booted Rumsfeld 6-8 months prior to the election, but that's another issue )

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Y'all think that by comparing me to PN, that I'll some how quit or something? Hardly. I'll converse w/ those willing to do likewise.

---

No, you misunderstand. I don't want you to quit. You are entertaining as hell.

Quote:

---

From the clip above, no, Cheney wasn't lying. And this is how I'll " explain it away", as you put it. The Prague meeting between Atta and Iraqi officals remains a mystery. We're going on Czech intel, so what ever reason Cheney has to believe in that source is for anyone to guess. If they told him it happened, and he believes their info is credible, what's he suppose to say? Sure, when asked specifically if he said " x,y,z... " , he may have SAID that , but the bigger issue is whether or not the Administration tried to overtly tie Iraq in w/ the 9/11 attacks. All Cheney et al did was point out the known ( or presumed known ) facts as they knew them at the time. It was certainly rational to include Iraq in a list of possible candidates, and that's all Cheney or Bush or anyone said on the matter. There was no wide spread , hard sell by the Administration on connecting Iraq w/ the 9/11 attacks, and that's the main point here.

i think a better case could be made if we saw more than just 5 seconds of Cheney's words from a video clip from several yrs ago.

---

Dance dance dance.

He said it was confirmed, then said it wasn't confirmed. They are directly contradictory. Only one of these statements can be true. Either he was lying when he said it was confirmed (which seems the most likely), or he was lying when he said it wasn't.

Then, he said he'd never said it had been confirmed - which he clearly did. Undeniably a lie - unless you're a wingnut stooge. You guys are amazingly good at denial. I love that you actually aknowledge that he "SAID that", when it wasn't true, and don't consider it a lie. Priceless.

Best case scenario, you have two lies there.

And nothing about the memo that "doesn't exist"?

Keep 'em coming, Rappy boy.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Oh, and here's the full 81 pages of the memo that (in Rappy-land) doesn't exist:

Part 1 - http://gulcfac.typepad.com/georgetown_university_law/files/march.14.me
mo.part1.pdf

Part 2 - http://gulcfac.typepad.com/georgetown_university_law/files/march14.mem
o.part2.pdf

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Cheney " misspoke" , he didn't lie



That 'memo' doesn't say what you claim it does. Much like the innocuous 10 Downing ST memo, which doesn't prove anything that the whole world didn't know since the 1st Gulf War.

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I've had a rough day. Reality just bites sometimes.

So I'll have whatever Rap is drinking, and make reality go away for a while!

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
So I'll have whatever Rap is drinking, and make reality go away for a while!

---

Sounds to me like someone slipped some truth serum into Auraptor's drink.

Keep up the good work Auraptor, it makes your job easier having reality on you side. I love their links showing "incontrovertible evidence". How poisoned does your view have to be to see these as evidence of anything other than their own hatred.

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Well gosh, there are actual recordings of Cheney saying it was, it wasn't and I never said it was. If that means he didn't lie then Hillary never lied either. Because how do we know she didn't THINK they were ? Or that someone had told her that they were ? Or in fact that they really had been but that it was supposed to be a secret ?


I mean, really, can you PROVE she lied ?

Can you, Rap ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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SignyM

I'm sorry to hear that. Wine or hard liquor and some mindless computer games or TV often help. And then a good night's sleep. It's trite but true that things usually look different in the morning.



***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Well gosh, there are actual recordings of Cheney saying it was, it wasn't and I never said it was. If that means he didn't lie then Hillary never lied either. Because how do we know she didn't THINK they were ? Or that someone had told her that they were ? Or in fact that they really had been but that it was supposed to be a secret ?


I mean, really, can you PROVE she lied ?

Can you, Rap ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not nothing but a big fat Liberal lie.

---

I already proved that Hillary lied and Cheney didn't.

next ?

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Well gosh, there are actual recordings of Cheney saying it was, it wasn't and I never said it was. If that means he didn't lie then Hillary never lied either. Because how do we know she didn't THINK they were ? Or that someone had told her that they were ? Or in fact that they really had been but that it was supposed to be a secret ?


I mean, really, can you PROVE she lied ?

Can you, Rap ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not nothing but a big fat Liberal lie.

---

I already proved that Hillary lied and Cheney didn't.

next ?

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

---

You didn't prove Cheney didn't lie, you self-deluded nincompoop. You didn't prove dick. Hell, we've all agreed Hillary lied. Not a one has disputed that. You just can't accept that your little demi-god did it, too. All you did is use the same excuse you're wanting to crucify Clinton for. Just more rationalizations and dancing. Christ, at this point,m I'm convinced Cheny himself could show up at your doorstep, admit he lied, provide the evidence, and you'd still argue it. Your pathological need to believe what you want is staggering.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Rap

"I already proved that Hillary lied ..."

Really ? Did you ? All you posted was what other people said. Is that your proof? Not talking about proving in a court or anything, but all you got are rumors of rumors.

You REALLY do need to PROVE Hillary lied.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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A lying politician? Isn't that basically every politician that ever existed in every country in the world? It's not a matter of who lied the most I think, more like who lied the less.

Which of course is like looking for a horse of a different color.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~


DON'T FREAK OUT

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Rap

"I already proved that Hillary lied ..."

Really ? Did you ? All you posted was what other people said. Is that your proof? Not talking about proving in a court or anything, but all you got are rumors of rumors.

You REALLY do need to PROVE Hillary lied.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

---

in this thread, I pointed out her dishonesty and willingness to break any rules, laws just to win. The Bosnia sniper fire ordeal showed that she lied.
I didn't need to show that, it's common knowledge that Hilary lied.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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"The Bosnia sniper fire ordeal showed that she lied."

It did ? How do you KNOW she lied ? Maybe she was told they were under sniper fire. Maybe she meant to say they could have been but accidentally left off the preface. Maybe she thought they were. I mean really, unless you can show she intentionally sought to mislead people how can you PROVE she lied ?

"I didn't need to show that, it's common knowledge that Hilary lied."

Well, it's common knowledge that Cheney lied, and Bush lied and Rice lied and Rumsfeld lied and so on. If that's all YOU require to PROVE a lie, then in fact all your heroes did lie. But if you need more - and I certainly do - then you're a far, far way off from PROVING Hillary lied.

So yeah you still need to prove Hillary lied.


***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
"The Bosnia sniper fire ordeal showed that she lied."

It did ? How do you KNOW she lied ? Maybe she was told they were under sniper fire. Maybe she meant to say they could have been but accidentally left off the preface. Maybe she thought they were. I mean really, unless you can show she intentionally sought to mislead people how can you PROVE she lied ?

"I didn't need to show that, it's common knowledge that Hilary lied."

Well, it's common knowledge that Cheney lied, and Bush lied and Rice lied and Rumsfeld lied and so on. If that's all YOU require to PROVE a lie, then in fact all your heroes did lie. But if you need more - and I certainly do - then you're a far, far way off from PROVING Hillary lied.

So yeah you still need to prove Hillary lied.


***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not important. It just isn't .

---

The video by the CBS film crew showed that Hillary lied. She said there wasn't even time for a greeting ceremony on the tarmack, and that they ran w/ their heads down to the buildings of the base. That's not what happened, not even close. The video showed her meeting, talking to and accepting a gift from a little girl. No one was ducking their heads,no one was in a hurry to get inside. Hillary didn't just grab the gift and run, as she claimed she did. She lied.

There's nothing to show that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld or Condi lied. Nothing what so ever. So, what the hell is your point w/ this silly stunt you're trying to pull by saying she didn't and Bush et all did ?



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Quote:

---

There's nothing to show that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld or Condi lied.

---

Well, if a video can show that Hillary lied, then a video showing Cheney saying something and then directly denying he said it, ALSO proves he lied.

Or not. In Auraptor-world.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:

Quote:

---

There's nothing to show that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld or Condi lied.

---

Well, if a video can show that Hillary lied, then a video showing Cheney saying something and then directly denying he said it, ALSO proves he lied.

Or not. In Auraptor-world.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

---

Cheney was talking about a bigger issue, whether he connected Iraq / al Qaeda and 9/11. He was basing it on the report which is now held suspect, so of course his view is going to change on that, per the intel. Hillary was THERE, and was recounting HER OWN EXPERIENCES , most of which never actually happened.

If you can't see the difference here, then there's no point of continuing on any further. They are not one in the same. Not by a space mile.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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really Auraptor? so if his information changed when more intel was available then I assume his response was something like...

"we were exploring a link between 9/11 and Iraq which I told the American people was a real possibility, but it turns out there was no connection."

But nope. What we got was..." The senator has got his facts wrong. I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11, but there's clearly an established Iraqi track record with terror. "

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There most certainly was a connection between Iraq and terrorist organizations, even al - Qaeda. Just not per the 9/11 attacks.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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oh jesus

do you intentionally miss the point every time?

Cheney suggested that there could be a connection with Iraq and 9/11. Then.....he told us....I did not suggest a connection between Iraq with 9/11.

WTF dude...you totally avoided that

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by Righteous9:
oh jesus

do you intentionally miss the point every time?

Cheney suggested that there could be a connection with Iraq and 9/11. Then.....he told us....I did not suggest a connection between Iraq with 9/11.

WTF dude...you totally avoided that

---

That's not what he said. And the reason I'm being so stubborn on this issue is that I won't allow Cheney's comment to be misconstrued to being on the same level as the callous , intentional and blatant lie that Hillary told. Cheney is dealing w/ an issue of international intelligence, what was known, what was surmised, WHEN it was known,by who, etc...there's a LOT of various factors involved here, not just him making up a story to look better to the media.

I'm fucking sick and tired of idiots and myrmidons getting the facts wrong just so they can have some fodder to throw at a political party or an individual of a party of which they don't see eye to eye. "Bush lied, people died " = great bumper sticker, but it's A LIE, and such B.S. doesn't do a damn thing but embolden the enemies of the U.S. Disagreeing over something is fine, but don't do so on the basis of a lie, even if the lie sounds good on a bumper sticker.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
This probably depends upon what your definition of then word "is" is.
Lying under oath (Slick) and in court (Hillary) are different from lying to the press, or lying to youtube, or lying to the Russians.

---

...or lying to the American people (State of the Union)...

Is Hillary a liar? Well, she's a politician - do you really need to ask if she's a liar?

What kills me is these dolts who insist - over and over, more and more loudly - that Bush has NEVER lied. Ever, in his entire life.

Are Hillary and Bill (or the collective term, "HillBilly") the BIGGEST liars *ever* to live in the White House? Doubtful. There was Nixon, who was referenced in AwwwCrapper's original post - remember him? The dude who had shitty burglars try to bug the Democratic national headquarters, and then tried to cover it up, and lied about every single second of the events?

What about Reagan? Remember him? "We don't negotiate with terrorists." Spoken BY him, at the exact same time he was NEGOTIATING WITH THOSE VERY SAME TERRORISTS WE SUPPOSEDLY DON'T NEGOTIATE WITH!!! Oh, wait - let me guess: Since it was Reagan, he simply misspoke. Or couldn't recall. Bullshit. He flat-out fucking LIED to you, me, the American people, and the world. That was a trend he'd continue throughout his administration.

My point? Simple - you know your President is a liar when you see his (or her) lips moving. What tends to separate the men from the boys are the SIZE of the lies. Slick Willie lied about getting a hummer from a fat chick who wasn't his wife. In the scope of things, how big is that? Who died as a direct result of this lie? And if you were in his shoes (or her mouth), wouldn't you do the same?

Contrast that with Bush's lies - which so far have had a direct effect to the tune of 4000+ American soldiers killed in Iraq, countless thousands of others horribly injured and maimed, many of them for the rest of their lives, and HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Iraqis dead - all for nothing but Bush's outsized ego, and his pathological need to impress his daddy.





Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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myrmidons

Huh. That must have been O'Reilly's word for the day.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Conservatives love to beat the drumb about Liberals and their "Moral Relatism", but when one of their guys gets caught lying...

Well, er... that doesn't count. He wasn't under oath, he was just lying to the public, so it's not really a lie.

Hypocrits.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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I generally don't reply to political extremist threads ... but this is amazing.

Let me say, as said before. ALL politicians lie. Okay, we know that. Most of us lie. "how do I look in this dress?", yeah, you are going to tell her the truth, right? (ridiculous example I know, but it's just a point).

Any statement that is absolute, comes into question. It's not a matter of the biggest, worst etc. It's a matter of individual choice and following our own beliefs as to who is lying about what. If the issue is something important to you ... then that lie is going to be important to you. (Like the press doesn't twist and take quotes out of context)

BUT ... to imply (Bush never lied) that your party's candidates and personnel are pure and without any fault is naive and arrogant.

We all have strong feelings in politics. Conservatives tend to want to protect everything they have to the point that giving aide to the less fortunate is distasteful and a threat. They also want to tear down the division of church and state so that the Christian bible rules the country and be damned, literally, all other belief systems. Liberals tend blame all the problems on the conservatives, want to give all the money to "special interest" groups, don't believe in God (as defined in the ONLY book, the Bible) and don't take "personal" responsibility. It's all cliche and we tend to fall into the party line of beliefs.

Surprise, not ALL liberals are bleeding hearts weariang blinders. Not ALL conservatives are penny pinching bigots.

Unfortunately ... we can't tell that from this thread.


Here we believe in the "little guy", we believe in the browncoats as we see them to be. This thread just doesn't fit does it?

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
myrmidons

Huh. That must have been O'Reilly's word for the day.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

---

Never listen to or watch O'Reily. Nice try.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by Amazon:
Surprise, not ALL liberals are bleeding hearts weariang blinders. Not ALL conservatives are penny pinching bigots.

Unfortunately ... we can't tell that from this thread.

Here we believe in the "little guy", we believe in the browncoats as we see them to be. This thread just doesn't fit does it?

---

I have to completely and totally agree with you there. I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, but neither am I a pincher-conservative. I believe in a fair law that all men can agree on, of course, unless they are the ones falling under the penalty of the law, in which case it's never fair.


What I'd like to do is define "lie," "lying," and "lied" since those words are being thrown around a lot.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lie

lie; noun, verb, lied, ly·ing. –noun
1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: "His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one."
3. an inaccurate or false statement.
4. the charge or accusation of lying: "He flung the lie back at his accusers." –verb (used without object)
5. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.
6. to express what is false; convey a false impression. –verb (used with object)
7. to bring about or affect by lying (often used reflexively): to lie oneself out of a difficulty; accustomed to lying his way out of difficulties. —Idioms
8. give the lie to,
a. to accuse of lying; contradict.
b. to prove or imply the falsity of; belie: "His poor work gives the lie to his claims of experience."
9. lie in one's throat or teeth, to lie grossly or maliciously: "If she told you exactly the opposite of what she told me, she must be lying in her teeth." Also, lie through one's teeth.


Ok, now that we've got that out of the way... doesn't a lie also include the hiding of the truth? I always got whooped when I was younger for not telling the whole truth, for leaving parts out. I think that counts as lying too. So, wouldn't anyone who only told part of the story, especially when it comes to telling the American public what happened and when that little extra counts, be lying? I would have to say yes - so this here is to support all of those other bits of evidence set forth by those above me, both for and against no one in particular. Just use the same definition when you hold your bits of glass up to the light, and remember, nothing you say or do matters in the long run. You don't have any money, why should your voice count?




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And not all Anarchists are mad as hatters.

But you know, some of us MIGHT be!


The whole thread is just so stupid that it's funny, because there's no way in hell any sane person could take it seriously.

-F

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Hillary Clinton has coughing fit during Rachel Maddow interview
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/hillary-clinton-has-coughing-f
it-during-rachel-maddow-interview

Hillary Clinton wants Biden to regulate cryptocurrencies? Can Destabilize Nations??

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Hillary Clinton Says President Trump Needs to be ‘Held Accountable’ For ‘Unhinged Rants’ on Social Media

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/hillary-clinton-says-president-tru
mp-203012373.html


Trump said his book 26 years ago predicted 9/11, Laden's plan. Except it didn't |
hindustantimes.com


Hillary Clinton dodges sniper fire in Bosnia - raw footage

Youtubed-jokers

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