Why George Bush is a great man & a very good President

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Friday, June 13, 2008 02:56
VIEWED: 16333
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KWICKO

Wednesday, May 14, 2008 11:14 PM (P)

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And there you have it. This batman fantasy is what you have come to expect from reality? Are you and others such a product of a television age where you can’t separate fiction from reality, or is this just an excuse? Are you instead just jumping on the popular “Bush-hater” trend, but lack the understanding to appreciate why some don’t disagree with Bush, so you use this an excuse to following some trend?

Sorry, the batman fantasy is all yours. You actually seem to think Bush is some sort of hero; I think of him as more of a zero. Polls show most Americans agree with me, but thanks for playing anyway...

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Just ask John Kerry, whom your party has portrayed as a traitor, a coward, a snob, and a fake.

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And this is really interesting, because you accept that this whole thing is a fabrication, but you can’t imagine not going allow with it. You convinced yourself that, it doesn’t matter what the truth actually is, just that the perception created by the media is the only real truth. So someone in the media created an imaginary two-dimensional perception, and you accept it and even defend it as it if is real.

Wait, so you're admitting that the whole swift-boating of John Kerry was a fabrication? And that you couldn't imagine going along with it? Can I take that as a formal apology from you and your party for what you did to that man? Do you still wear your darlin' little purple heart Band-Aids, to make fun of a man who actually WENT to Viet Nam, and to support a man who was a draft-dodger and a deserter?

Apology accepted.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

FLETCH2

Wednesday, May 14, 2008 11:41 PM (P)

Thatcher was extremely politically savvy. Those council house sales? They turned people who would otherwise have rented all their lives into home owners. It gave them a stake in the political system and capital to work with. The privitisations brought millions of people into share ownership for the first time. It made a vast difference in the UK's political landscape and made both major political parties "post Thatcherite."

I could argue that New Labour is a direct result of Thatcherism in both style and policy. Cameron looks like a nice bloke but seems a little "wet." I suspect Europe will remain the Tory Kryptonite, a pity, you have to be in it to change it and Europe desperately needs changing.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:17 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Did Nero really fiddle while Rome burned? Historians say no - but the PERCEPTION was that he did nothing. And realistically, what was he going to do, put out the fires by himself? But because he was seen as not doing anything, that's the image that stuck throughout history. Bush will have the same image, fiddling away while the towers collapsed, fiddling away while Katrina flooded, fiddling away while the economy collapsed, and playing an encore in the face of global climate change...

Realistically, Nero wasn’t even in Rome at the time of the fires, but yes that’s the kind of fabrication that I’m talking about, except that in Nero’s case, I understand it. Nero had people burned on poles just to light his parties. He was a real evil bastard, but George Bush doesn’t do those kinds of things. It’s not even possible for someone in this country to have that kind of power. Yet, here we are with people creating fabrications to justify outrageous hatred of a national leader? And some of you, like Storymark for instance, are really invested in this lie. He gets furious if you challenge this fabricated view of George Bush, because he has accepted, like many Bush-haters, these fabrications as absolute truth.

So the state has changed - political leaders no longer burn people as tiki torches, but the mob has not. The mob remains as furious and irrational has ever. Only now the rational members of society don’t have as much reason to sympathize with you. I understand why people hated Nero, but hatred of Bush, especially for the reasons given, is just idiotic. And this is really something to worried about, because our political system today, a government for the people and by the people, depends on the people evolving away from their earlier attitudes as well, but that hasn’t seemed to have been as successful.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
My opposition to the Bush regime comes from the knowledge that he is simply not a bright person. He lacks intelligence (in more ways than one, as evidenced on 9/11 and after), he lacks curiosity, he lacks reasoning skills; in short, he's certainly not one of his father's "thousand points of light". In that analogy, he's the dim bulb.

This isn’t “knowledge.” There’s no way you could know this. This is more fiddling on the roof.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

RUE

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:35 AM (P)

Are you sure ? You sound sure. How do you know that ?

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

CHRISISALL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:46 AM (P)

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Originally posted by rue:
Are you sure ? You sound sure. How do you know that ?

Finn has a hard time with the idea that the President of the United States could be just a regular dope that bought the office with family ties & money (sorry Finn, I call 'em as I see 'em).

isall

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:12 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Finn has a hard time with the idea that the President of the United States could be just a regular dope that bought the office with family ties & money (sorry Finn, I call 'em as I see 'em).

As usual, you need glasses, because this is your story and storymark story. You’re the ones that can’t except that the president isn’t superman with superhero strengths.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

RUE

Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:17 AM (P)

"You’re the ones that can’t accept that the president isn’t superman with superhero strengths."

I'd settle for average with a shred of integrity.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

HAVOCMAN

Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:50 AM (P)

He's certainly the best we've had since Reagan. Better than Kennedy, LBJ, and Carter, too. Clinton...no contest. Better than Gore (inventor of the intarwebs!) would have been.

His response to terrorism has been pretty much on target. His predecessors treated terrorism as a law enforcement issue. That attitude is what led to 9/11/01. Our enemies expected more of the same from GW. He threw 'em for a loop, that's for sure. They are on the run now. Ask a Soldier or Marine...and thank 'em.

Anybody tries to kill ya, you kill 'em right back. Sound familiar?

I would've liked to see GW reduce the size of government.

He should have done more with enforcing and protecting our southern border.

I think creating DHS was a mistake. Should have given that mission to existing .gov entities.

Looking back, he should have done something about our energy supplies, too. If the dang French can pull off Nuclear energy, so can we. We need to drill in Alaska and off our coastlines.

On a scale of 10, with 10 being good (Reagan), I'd give him a 7. I like him.

Here's something I don't get about GW opponents ... on the one hand, ya'all call him a moron, idiot, etc. Then on the other hand, ya'all believe he is some kind of super-secret ultra-crook who can keep everyone from knowing "The Truth". How exactly does that work?

GW is "The Man".

RUE

Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:55 AM (P)

It doesn't work that way except in your (assuming) mind. 'We' don't think he's a moron and also super-evil dude. And why you would make such assumptions says more about you than anyone else.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

HAVOCMAN

Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:56 AM (P)

...and humans have no impact on global warming. None. Nada. Zip. Zero.

The Earth is a big rock. We occupy a small part of it. To think that we can control the environment - intentionally or not - is just dang crazy.

HAVOCMAN

Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:02 AM (P)

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Originally posted by rue:
'We' don't think he's a moron and also super-evil dude.

The opposition has likened GW to Hitler (evil genius) and has also called him a moron. That's not my imagination.

RUE

Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:10 AM (P)

I've read the word fascism is many discussions, but nowhere have I noticed comparisons between Bush and Hitler.

And fascism and Hilter are two different words, you may have noticed. Or maybe not.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

KWICKO

Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:40 AM (P)

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Originally posted by HavocMan:
...and humans have no impact on global warming. None. Nada. Zip. Zero.

The Earth is a big rock. We occupy a small part of it. To think that we can control the environment - intentionally or not - is just dang crazy.

You do realize that your statement directly contravenes Bush Administration doctrine, as of today. He said in an interview with NBC that mankind has "of course" contributed to global warming and made it worse. And his administration today placed the Polar Bear on the list of threatened species, because of (in their words) the disappearing polar ice due to man-made global warming.

So... are YOU lying, or is the Administration lying?

We don't "control" the environment, but we DO contribute to it. There's a difference, although I'm not sure you realize it.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

PHOENIXSHIP

Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:39 AM (P)

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Another proponent of the Batman philosophy of presidential conduct. What should he have done? Run out to the ruins of the WTC and exclaim to Cheney, “Those dastardly villains!!!”

Okay, Mr. Finn, I haven't posted in months, but your ignorance and stubbornness really inspired me. Listen closely (read my lips, indeed):

We are not saying he should have turned into a superhero. We are saying he should have behaved like the leader of this country, stood up, excused himself calmly from the rest of the 3rd graders, and at least found out what the fuck was going on. Do you get it? Face it, he's a terrible leader - not because he's a Republican or a conservative. He's a terrible leader because he's an amoral, soulless little insect of a man who doesn't give a shit about you or anyone else who isn't his friend or a rich oilman.

Do you really not understand? Really, I'm asking sincerely.

I forgot how to use these damned HTML tags. Cripes. And where the hell is PIRATENEWS?

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

PHOENIXSHIP

Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:55 AM (P)

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Originally posted by HavocMan:
He's certainly the best we've had since Reagan. Better than Kennedy, LBJ, and Carter, too. Clinton...no contest. Better than Gore (inventor of the intarwebs!) would have been.

Impossible to prove either way, but I respectfully disagree!
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His response to terrorism has been pretty much on target.

Except for the whole Afghanistan/Iraq confusion.

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His predecessors treated terrorism as a law enforcement issue. That attitude is what led to 9/11/01. Our enemies expected more of the same from GW. He threw 'em for a loop, that's for sure. They are on the run now. Ask a Soldier or Marine...and thank 'em.

Anybody tries to kill ya, you kill 'em right back. Sound familiar?

Unless they're from Saudi, homeland of the 9/11 attackers, or drug lords in Afghanistan, or Shiites who were just months ago killing GIs and are now on the payroll.

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I would've liked to see GW reduce the size of government.

I agree... this is what Republicans used to stand for.

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He should have done more with enforcing and protecting our southern border.

I think creating DHS was a mistake. Should have given that mission to existing .gov entities.

Yes... DHS is the seed of destruction for this great country. Truly dangerous and evil, even though it's full of otherwise decent people.

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Looking back, he should have done something about our energy supplies, too. If the dang French can pull off Nuclear energy, so can we. We need to drill in Alaska and off our coastlines.

I think this is a losing proposition. We need to evolve into some different energy sources. It's time.

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On a scale of 10, with 10 being good (Reagan), I'd give him a 7. I like him.

Here's something I don't get about GW opponents ... on the one hand, ya'all call him a moron, idiot, etc. Then on the other hand, ya'all believe he is some kind of super-secret ultra-crook who can keep everyone from knowing "The Truth". How exactly does that work?

That's a good question... I'd say he's a basically amoral, and not too bright, just easily led by a powerful personality like Cheney or God knows who. I don't believe there's a super-secret conspiracy, just a tragically apathetic population who wasn't paying attention.

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GW is "The Man".

I defend and support your right to say this. Because I haven't received a National Security Letter w/gag order from the CIA.

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

CITIZEN

Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:09 AM (P)

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
I could argue that New Labour is a direct result of Thatcherism in both style and policy. Cameron looks like a nice bloke but seems a little "wet." I suspect Europe will remain the Tory Kryptonite, a pity, you have to be in it to change it and Europe desperately needs changing.

I agree. Whatever is going to happen in the future, I think a Unified Europe is one of those things. It will happen with us, or without us, without us it'll be a French-German Empire, run for the French and Germans, at the expense of everyone else. With us it could hopefully be something more equal, if we can drive a wedge between France and Germany. It's been Britain's function for the last few hundred years squashing petty dictators and their designs on European Empire...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

FLETCH2

Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:21 AM (P)

Europe has to be of benefit to Europeans and to some extent it has been, there is no other trading block that allows the free and easy migration of labour that Europe allows, something I've taken full advantage of. If an American has the wrong kind of health plan he can have trouble finding a doctor to treat him even in the neighboring state, contrast that with the EHIC card.

European superstate... that we can do without, any form of European government should be limited to issues best tackled at that level. More regional autonomy not less is the answer, we should direct research to areas that give maximum return on investment or maximum social benefit, oh and we need a real space program.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:09 AM (P)

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Originally posted by Phoenixship:
Republican or a conservative. He's a terrible leader because he's an amoral, soulless little insect of a man who doesn't give a shit about you or anyone else who isn't his friend or a rich oilman.

And you surmise this because he didn’t become a tv action hero for the cameras, huh? This is really sad, that so many of you confuse reality with tv.

So the president should have jumped to action? Dramatically excused himself from a classroom in Florida, then what? He was in Florida, and as far as anyone knew this was World War III. Maybe he should have used his cell phone and called in orders to the joint chiefs? That only works in the movies. Maybe he should have run back to the Whitehouse? In the movies they could just change scenes and he’d be there, but in reality, it would have taken hours and diverted manpower and attention away from the events that morning. So in the end, what would all this superhero stuff accomplish in the real world? Nothing.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CITIZEN

Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:09 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
European superstate... that we can do without, any form of European government should be limited to issues best tackled at that level. More regional autonomy not less is the answer, we should direct research to areas that give maximum return on investment or maximum social benefit, oh and we need a real space program.

I think that's where Europe is headed, whether we like it or not. It would be better for us to be in it, than 'under it', which I think would happen if we let France, Germany and Brussels dictate terms. How I see Europe is rather different than how those currently constructing it see it though, I'd push for an internally autonomous, externally coherent setup. Something similar to the pre-Civil War US, but with perhaps more regional autonomy for individual states.

CITIZEN

Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:18 AM (P)

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Originally posted by tristanperry:
Destruction of UK industry was down to the TUs resisting change. We were being controlled by the Trade Unions, and ultimately they needed tackling at some point. It was obviously always going to be a political nightmare, although someone had to do it.

Except it was the changes Thatcher enacted that were actually responsible for much of it's decline. The Trade Union's resistance to change is what probably really did for the Trade Unions, but it was Thatcher that broke up British Industry.

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And private house ownership is something that loads of people (where I live) somehow praise Labour for (the voters around here suck - they honestly believe that being allowed to buy your council house was a Labour policy..) It is a popular move overall, IMHO.

Does popular automatically equate to 'good'?

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Either way, she actually stood up for herself and did what she thought was right. I haven't seen/heard of that since Thatcher.

Of course changing one's stripes at the political wind is nothing short of disastrous, but is being the "Iron Lady", as resistive to changing one's mind no matter what the evidence really any better? Surely that's just dictatorial? Would someone in the middle, between Thatcher and Gordon Brown be better?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

KWICKO

Thursday, May 15, 2008 12:27 PM (P)

{quote]...as far as anyone knew this was World War III. Maybe he should have used his cell phone and called in orders to the joint chiefs? That only works in the movies. Maybe he should have run back to the Whitehouse?

Yes, as far as anyone knew, this was WWIII, so having the leader of the most powerful nation on Earth sitting on his thumbs isn't exactly the best idea...

You don't think the President of the United States of America is able to be in touch with his Administration when he's out of the White House? Seriously? He couldn't have gotten any updates, any briefing, any intel, because he wasn't at the "Whitehouse"? That, my friend, is a sad state of affairs, because by implication, it means that our current President has been out of touch and not in control of his Administration for more than one-third of his tenure in that office.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:03 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
You don't think the President of the United States of America is able to be in touch with his Administration when he's out of the White House? Seriously? He couldn't have gotten any updates, any briefing, any intel, because he wasn't at the "Whitehouse"? That, my friend, is a sad state of affairs, because by implication, it means that our current President has been out of touch and not in control of his Administration for more than one-third of his tenure in that office.

How do you know he wasn’t trying to receiving intel? You don’t. In fact he was. But most of the leaders were scattered across the world, at that time. Here is this dramatic tv idea that the president is like a warlord who charges into battle at the head of his army and micromanages every event of the battle. It’s ingrained into the tv generation, I guess.

As a general rule, the president should avoid micromanaging events of war or disasters, since he’s not a trained military general or disaster relief personnel.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:05 PM (P)

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
List it my peeps; I need some good fantasy...

I wanted to jump in on this, but with 121 posts of Bush bashing, I figured it'd get old quick, so many apologies ahead of time if this had already been posted.

Truth is, I don't hate the man. I'm sure he believe that he did the best he could do with what he was given. For anyone to think that just because he held the title of President of the United States that he is the most powerful man in the free world is pure fantasy. He is just somebody that the truly powerful and behind the scenes guys for life have to put up with for 4 or at most 8 years. More important is the party behind the president in determining how important events are handled.

Unfortunately, I have no more love for Obama or Clinton in the race than I have McCain because neither of them will do anything but make life harder and give me more to bitch about. Being a middle-class earner and saver leaning much closer to lower-class than burnin' Benjamins rich, there isn't a serious presidental candidate out there that will do anything different for me.

All those sad truths being said, I have a few lighter reasons that Bush is a great man.

1) If the Demoncrats win, he will give us something to look back on and wish we still had.

2) If the Rethuglicans win, he will serve as a template for imperialism worldwide and privacy annhialation stateside. This template will actually be acquired by Microsoft in a hostile takeover of the American Government and be available to the Alex P. Keatonites as part of the MS Office 2010 features.

3) The man and his father were so badass that they had beer named after them before I was born because they were destined to be great men. Forget about that stupid library Mr. President. You have a beer named after you, which was named before you. The beer of the people. Does anybody even go to a library anymore? When is the last time that you were at a libary Mr. President?

And Now I bid you all farewell. I am heading for the mountains of Bush while this entire world shitstorm blows over. Bonus, 'cause if the icecaps melt like you crazy Science folk say it's pretty high and dry up here.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:17 PM (P)

The man was utterly clueless that fateful morning. Our country was under attack and he didn't do his job....period. An adult ( is he one ) could have just said..." Hey kids, your President needs to leave for a minute." No kid would have been traumatized by that. Then he could have done his Presidential thing...like find out what the fuck was going on. I still would like to know why the Bin Laden family was rounded up and flown out of America. Has that ever been answered? Then the jerk challenges the Taliban to surrender Osama, as if they ever would...he gives them 30 days...30 fucking days...result? Bin Laden gone, Mullah Omar gone, Al Zawahiri gone! Shit, I would have leveled Kabul that night. He chose to send our troops into staging areas outside Iraq all the while giving the phony appearance of UN cooperation. Iraq WAS a stable place under the Huesseins, and it was a great adversary against Iran...we needed Saddam and his ruthless regime to keep the religious maniacs in check...so what happens...Osama & boys are gone..then the country goes into anarchy & civil war...with our troops in the crossfire as high value targets. I hope someday to see Cheney & Rumsfeld sent to prison for their roles in these debacles. I expected better from them.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:28 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The man was utterly clueless that fateful morning. Our country was under attack and he didn't do his job....period. An adult ( is he one ) could have just said..." Hey kids, your President needs to leave for a minute." No kid would have been traumatized by that. Then he could have done his Presidential thing...like find out what the fuck was going on.

He could do that just fine where he was.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I still would like to know why the Bin Laden family was rounded up and flown out of America. Has that ever been answered?

Never happened.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Then the jerk challenges the Taliban to surrender Osama, as if they ever would...he gives them 30 days...30 fucking days...result? Bin Laden gone, Mullah Omar gone, Al Zawahiri gone! Shit, I would have leveled Kabul that night.

And how would you have justified that?

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:34 PM (P)

Maybe there ain't no funny left in this thread, cause I ain't read it, but that certainly wasn't funny Jongs.... and just as certainly I can't disagree with any of that and knowing where you used to stand that's saying quite a bit about your position now. Wish I had a better answer for the vote in November, but once again as is always, the media controls what people vote for and we've got 3 horrible answers to the question "How do we make it right for our kids now?"

The only right answer to that question is to build a Firefly and put as much distance between you and this rock as you can before they reach adulthood.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

SIGNYM

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:40 PM (P)

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He could do that just fine where he was.

But he didn't. I saw the video of his elementary-school visit. There were no whispered conferences, or written or Blackberried communication. Nothing. Finn, you need to see for yourself exactly what DID happen because you're defending something that is apparently totally unknown to you.

As much as you prolly hate Michael Moore, the only media presentation of what actually DID happen is in that movie. Nothing speaks louder than the events themselves, recorded faithfully by a videocam.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:41 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The man was utterly clueless that fateful morning. Our country was under attack and he didn't do his job....period. An adult ( is he one ) could have just said..." Hey kids, your President needs to leave for a minute." No kid would have been traumatized by that. Then he could have done his Presidential thing...like find out what the fuck was going on.
He could do that just fine where he was.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I still would like to know why the Bin Laden family was rounded up and flown out of America. Has that ever been answered?
Never happened.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Then the jerk challenges the Taliban to surrender Osama, as if they ever would...he gives them 30 days...30 fucking days...result? Bin Laden gone, Mullah Omar gone, Al Zawahiri gone! Shit, I would have leveled Kabul that night.
And how would you have justified that?

a) He wasted potentially valuable minutes before leaving the kids. Maybe those minutes were needed for command & control. Maybe there were going to be more hijacked planes being used as missiles, maybe there were going to be coordinated bombings across America. Commander in Chief needs to be on the horn to his military & civilian subordinates to prepare for invasion, or plan a defense against further attacks.
b) Bin Laden Family....I don't know...you say with authority something else.
c) An act of war is an act of war...3,000 dead American civilians is justification to strike back.

KWICKO

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:52 PM (P)

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He could do that just fine where he was.

The operative word in that statement being "could". He COULD do that; he simply chose not to.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I still would like to know why the Bin Laden family was rounded up and flown out of America. Has that ever been answered?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Never happened.

Ahhhh - once again, all those news sources are simply making that up. Time, Newsweek, CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Pentagon, the White House...

This has been reported on more than a few times. No Administration source has denied it, that I've ever seen. It's been reported as fact, and never disputed or disproved. So you're saying that there was no flight allowed out of the US in the days immediately following 9/11?

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Then the jerk challenges the Taliban to surrender Osama, as if they ever would...he gives them 30 days...30 fucking days...result? Bin Laden gone, Mullah Omar gone, Al Zawahiri gone! Shit, I would have leveled Kabul that night.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And how would you have justified that?

I'm not sure I would have "levelled" Kabul, but certainly there would have been immediate retaliation. And there was no need to "justify" that retaliation to anyone - the world was actually on our side at that point, and fully expected us to retaliate, and the Taliban, if not directly responsible, were known to be giving safe haven and safe passage to Bin Laden and crew.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:11 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
a) He wasted potentially valuable minutes before leaving the kids. Maybe those minutes were needed for command & control. Maybe there were going to be more hijacked planes being used as missiles, maybe there were going to be coordinated bombings across America. Commander in Chief needs to be on the horn to his military & civilian subordinates to prepare for invasion, or plan a defense against further attacks.

That’s certainly the movie image of a president that sticks in most people’s minds, but the reality is that things were very confused in those first few minutes. Leaders were scattered. There was serious communications problems at every end. And as much as we perhaps don’t like to believe it, there was very little the president, or any of the leaders, could have done at that point. We were operating on emergency management routines. Local emergency personnel sprung into action and operated completely independent of any command and control, which is precisely what it was designed to do. And precisely how we managed to get through that with so few casualties. If you start depending on impossible image of a single person to solve the problems, things are going to fall apart quick.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
b) Bin Laden Family....I don't know...you say with authority something else.

Don’t take my word for it. Look it up. It never happened. I don’t know how that story got started, but it’s not true.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
c) An act of war is an act of war...3,000 dead American civilians is justification to strike back.

It was a covert act of war. Although I agree with you that Afghanistan was that responsible national party behind that act of war, they weren't going to openly admit it, so we had to force their hand for diplomatic reasons. I don't have a lot of real complaints with how Afghanistan was handled.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:18 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
The operative word in that statement being "could". He COULD do that; he simply chose not to.

According to you. I don’t know whether he did or not, but I assume he did.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Ahhhh - once again, all those news sources are simply making that up. Time, Newsweek, CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Pentagon, the White House...

This has been reported on more than a few times. No Administration source has denied it, that I've ever seen. It's been reported as fact, and never disputed or disproved. So you're saying that there was no flight allowed out of the US in the days immediately following 9/11?

It’s been disputed and proven wrong on numerous occasions. At this point, only the true conspiracy nuts believe this.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I'm not sure I would have "levelled" Kabul, but certainly there would have been immediate retaliation. And there was no need to "justify" that retaliation to anyone - the world was actually on our side at that point, and fully expected us to retaliate, and the Taliban, if not directly responsible, were known to be giving safe haven and safe passage to Bin Laden and crew.

You can’t even bring yourself to give the president the benefit of the doubt when all you have to go on is tv sensationalism - do you expect me to believe you wouldn’t be sitting here right now accusing the US of imperialism for retaliating against Afghanistan without justification?

Excuse me while I wipe the tears from my eyes ...

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

KWICKO

Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:57 PM (P)

Quote:

You can’t even bring yourself to give the president the benefit of the doubt when all you have to go on is tv sensationalism - do you expect me to believe you wouldn’t be sitting here right now accusing the US of imperialism for retaliating against Afghanistan without justification?

So is this your latest talking point from Party Central, or what? Anytime someone brings up a point, just accuse them of being "part of the tv generation" - somehow implying that you're NOT of the TV generation - all the while conveniently forgetting that YOU'RE POSTING ON A BOARD ABOUT A FUCKING TV SHOW, YOU STUPID FUCK!!

Am I of the TV generation? Yes, certainly. So are you. So is everybody in the US who is under the age of 60. I know you think you're so above it all, and would never stoop to having your views influenced by things you've seen on TV, right? Or should I say, "Wright?" Remember him? Jeremiah Wright? A pastor who's preached over 275,000 minutes over the past 35 years, but whose entire existence and outlood have been painted as "un-American" because of 20 seconds worth of soundbites on... (wait for it)... TEE-VEE!!!

As for what I would or wouldn't be doing had the President acted a bit more like a leader... we'll never know, because he never did. The only time he's ever been a leader was when he was a cheerleader in prep school. A male cheerleader is your idol and hero, the man you fantasize about in the Wonder Woman outfit. Jesus Herbert bald-headed fucking Christ on a biscuit...

You and your addle-pated kind seem to believe that all wars are inherently good, and that we're always on the good side of the good war. Others here seem to hold that all wars are bad and unnecessary, and that we're always on the wrong side in those wars. I hold a more realistic view: all wars ARE bad (or, "War is Hell", as the man said), but SOME wars are justified and even necessary. Unlike you, I can see the difference between "a just war" and "just a war". Afghanistan was a just war, at least in the beginning (before BushCo took its eye off the ball and got its collective head mindfucked by Iraq). As such, I wouldn't have *liked* the idea of carpet-bombing the Taliban back into the Stone Age (or *forward* into the Stone Age, as may be more accurate), but I could have at least understood the rationale behind such thinking. And it would have sent a MUCH clearer message to those who would do us harm: Fuck with us, and this is the result. Death to you and yours, and those that harbor them.

Bush under-reacted when it came to Bin Laden and Afghanistan, and he over-reacted when it came to Saddam. Only one of them attacked us, and vowed to continue doing so. You see the difference there, Punky Brewster?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

PIRATECAT

Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:08 PM (P)

TP, the Super Mosque is a huge problem, that gets built it will be a shrine for the muslims to lay claim to Ole England. Its time to export them while you can. Like in NYC its some time of land deal through the city goverment that's a scam. In the my country Detroit is the city that is lost. The politicians are not patriots whoever keeps the slime in power is who they cater too. Im just saying they tear down symbols of other faiths and put theirs up to stake their claim. I don't think America should bail out England a third time. But if you need a room I got a trailor out back.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

STORYMARK

Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:47 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
That’s certainly the movie image of a president that sticks in most people’s minds, but the reality is that things were very confused in those first few minutes. Leaders were scattered. There was serious communications problems at every end. And as much as we perhaps don’t like to believe it, there was very little the president, or any of the leaders, could have done at that point.

Maybe there was nothing he could have done. Guess we'll never know, since he didn't even try.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:27 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
YOU'RE POSTING ON A BOARD ABOUT A FUCKING TV SHOW, YOU STUPID FUCK!!

You didn't write that quote to me, so I may be over-stepping my bounds here...but...jeeeez, what's with the personal attack against Finn? I've only been very hard on Bush lately because I was a strong defender of him for many years and I owe this to the world. I suppose I was a "stupid fuck" too during those years. I don't post here too much anymore because of personal attacks like you wrote...what does it accomplish? Is your cursing supposed to win an argument for you? People here have called me the same and worse. As much as I can choose to ignore it, honestly it always bothers me a bit. If we all have nothing in common, at least we have our love of Firefly in common. No one should curse out anybody here...there's enough real villians and idiots out there that we don't have to sink to that here. Thanks!

KWICKO

Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:56 PM (P)

Hmmmm... Let's see... I've been called, by Finn, by "Hero" (talk about a misnomer), by AwwCrapper, and others on this board, all of the following:

Un-American
Traitor
Commie
Stupid
Asinine
Dumb
Coward
Unpatriotic
America-hater
Terrorist
Terrorist-lover
Muslim

... and your problem is... what, again?

I'm merely pointing out to Finn that speaking down to people as if they're stupid (and he IS speaking down to all of us, make no mistake) because they watch TV - ON A WEBSITE DEDICATED TO A TEE-VEE SHOW - is a pretty fucking stupid thing to do. Especially coming from someone who considers himself so "above it all", and who could NEEEEEVVVVVVEERRRRR be fooled by anything the news said, or Bill Orally said, or Rush Limbaugh, or William Kristol, or Karl Rove, or Donald Rumsfeld, or Dick Cheney, or George Bush.

No, WE'RE the ones who are being fooled, not he...

80 percent of Americans now think the country is on the wrong path, and nearly that many think Bush is doing a poor job - yet Finn et al would have you believe that that's only because they've been deluded by the vast left-wing media conspiracy. But of course, that same left-wing media has utterly ignored Reverend Hagee's remarks (time and again he's said it) that New Orleans got what it deserved in Katrina, and Pat Robertson's and Jerry Falwell's remarks that America got what it deserved on September 11. Yup, sounds like a huge leftist bias to me; they couldn't pay two seconds worth of attention to either of these stories, because they were too busy focusing on Jeremiah Wright (who, for the record, I consider to be as big an idiot as the other two "men of god" listed above).

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, May 15, 2008 5:17 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Hmmmm... Let's see... I've been called, by Finn, by "Hero" (talk about a misnomer), by AwwCrapper, and others on this board, all of the following:

Un-American
Traitor
Commie
Stupid
Asinine
Dumb
Coward
Unpatriotic
America-hater
Terrorist
Terrorist-lover
Muslim

... and your problem is... what, again?

I'm merely pointing out to Finn that speaking down to people as if they're stupid (and he IS speaking down to all of us, make no mistake) because they watch TV - ON A WEBSITE DEDICATED TO A TEE-VEE SHOW - is a pretty fucking stupid thing to do. Especially coming from someone who considers himself so "above it all", and who could NEEEEEVVVVVVEERRRRR be fooled by anything the news said, or Bill Orally said, or Rush Limbaugh, or William Kristol, or Karl Rove, or Donald Rumsfeld, or Dick Cheney, or George Bush.

No, WE'RE the ones who are being fooled, not he...

80 percent of Americans now think the country is on the wrong path, and nearly that many think Bush is doing a poor job - yet Finn et al would have you believe that that's only because they've been deluded by the vast left-wing media conspiracy. But of course, that same left-wing media has utterly ignored Reverend Hagee's remarks (time and again he's said it) that New Orleans got what it deserved in Katrina, and Pat Robertson's and Jerry Falwell's remarks that America got what it deserved on September 11. Yup, sounds like a huge leftist bias to me; they couldn't pay two seconds worth of attention to either of these stories, because they were too busy focusing on Jeremiah Wright (who, for the record, I consider to be as big an idiot as the other two "men of god" listed above).

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

Can't and won't disagree with anything you wrote in defense of your language against others who've done the same to you. I'm no saint, I've lost it a time or two myself. But I say never again....this board should not sink to the sewer like the right and left wing hate websites out there. If someone attacks you instead of your message, then their position is weak and they lose. You win by taking the high ground always. It's a big challenge for us, but it's worth it.

KWICKO

Thursday, May 15, 2008 6:04 PM (P)

Quote:
Can't and won't disagree with anything you wrote in defense of your language against others who've done the same to you. I'm no saint, I've lost it a time or two myself.

Well, thanks for the vote of confidence, as it were... ;)

What I tire of is being attacked, and then when I lash out in kind, being told, "Hey, hey, hey - let's all be nice... we don't need to be mean... we can take the higher ground and turn the other cheek..." And I'm tired of having my love of my country attacked and questioned simply because I don't believe in the agenda and mission statements of the current regime. I'm tired of turning the other cheek, only to have it bloodied and bruised, again and again. If anyone wants to attack my patriotism or my faith in the United States Constitution, then I absolutely reserve the right to question their intelligence, and I'll use their own mangled words to support my position.

Turning the other cheek is what cost Al Gore and John Kerry the last two elections - and might have cost John McCain the 2000 nomination. When they were being hammered with charges that were utter and complete bullshit, they simply shrugged, chuckled, and said, "Oh, ha-ha... the American people are smarter than that..."

Here's a little note to the two parties:

Attention Democrats: Americans aren't quite as smart as you think they are.

Attention Republicans: Americans aren't quite as dumb as YOU think they are.

Democrats seem to think Americans won't fall for baseless shenanigans, but they do, time and again; Republicans, on the other hand, seem to think we'll fall for ANYTHING, just as long as it's wrapped in a flag and given a catchy, jingoistic name.

If there's one thing I learned from Kerry's campaign, it's that you don't let a news cycle go by without refuting these bullshit charges and rumors, in the strongest possible terms. What I'd have *liked* to have seen would be Kerry standing up in front of the Swift-Boat ad, saying, "These are lies, and the lying liars that are spreading these lies are lying their lying asses off."

But he decided to take the moral high ground and "win" that argument...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

DEADLOCKVICTIM

Thursday, May 15, 2008 6:07 PM (P)

so, maybe we could use somebody like the Batman....

is Bob Kane still alive..?

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Thursday, May 15, 2008 6:08 PM (P)

Kwicko,
Methinks you need to ressurect your previous sig.
Sweeping generalizations are always wrong.

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, May 15, 2008 6:12 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
What I'd have *liked* to have seen would be Kerry standing up in front of the Swift-Boat ad, saying, "These are lies, and the lying liars that are spreading these lies are lying their lying asses off."

But he decided to take the moral high ground and "win" that argument...

I thought the Swift Boat ads were insulting & embarrassing, but I wonder to what degree they actually swayed anybody in their vote. But because of the viscious nauture of those ads, I expect to see even more viscious ones thrown at both Obama & McCain this year. Anyone who criticizes Obama will be called a racist, and anyone criticizing McCain will be called a traitor. It's gonna be ugly and bloody and un-relenting.

KWICKO

Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:26 PM (P)

Quote:
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Kwicko:
My opposition to the Bush regime comes from the knowledge that he is simply not a bright person. He lacks intelligence (in more ways than one, as evidenced on 9/11 and after), he lacks curiosity, he lacks reasoning skills; in short, he's certainly not one of his father's "thousand points of light". In that analogy, he's the dim bulb.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This isn’t “knowledge.” There’s no way you could know this. This is more fiddling on the roof.

Well, in the sense of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, you're right - there's no way any of us can "know" anything at all.

How do I "know" Bush ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer? Well, when you tell someone three hundred and forty-seven times in a row how to do something, and they STILL insist on doing it wrong, you start to paint a mental picture of a drooling moron who only manages to breathe on his own because he still has a semi-functioning brain stem.

All right, George - Say the word "Nuclear" for me...

I rest my case. Language > Bush

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

KWICKO

Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:30 PM (P)

Quote:
I thought the Swift Boat ads were insulting & embarrassing, but I wonder to what degree they actually swayed anybody in their vote. But because of the viscious nauture of those ads, I expect to see even more viscious ones thrown at both Obama & McCain this year. Anyone who criticizes Obama will be called a racist, and anyone criticizing McCain will be called a traitor. It's gonna be ugly and bloody and unrelenting.

And don't forget McCain's alleged illegitimate black baby from South Carolina. I'm sure every Republican will distance themselves from that particularly vicious rumor - but probably not from Karl Rove, who was in charge of Bush's Department of Dirty Tricks during that campaign.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

CHRISISALL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 8:39 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I'm tired of having my love of my country attacked and questioned simply because I don't believe in the agenda and mission statements of the current regime.

I'm right there with ya, K.

Chrisisall

CITIZEN

Thursday, May 15, 2008 9:16 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I'm tired of having my love of my country attacked and questioned simply because I don't believe in the agenda and mission statements of the current regime.

Oh god, you are such a terrorist!

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

DEADLOCKVICTIM

Thursday, May 15, 2008 9:38 PM (P)

i'm a little tired of having to 'love' a country simply because i was born and continue to live there...

patriotism is highly overrated....

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Thursday, May 15, 2008 9:40 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And I'm tired of having my love of my country attacked and questioned simply because I don't believe in the agenda and mission statements of the current regime.

And I'm sure there are those tired of having their love of their country attacked and questioned simply because they might believe in the agenda and mission statements of the current regime.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:05 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

And I'm sure there are those tired of having their love of their country attacked and questioned simply because they might believe in the agenda and mission statements of the current regime.

And...the imbecilic post-of-the-day Award goes to...
BDN!!!!

Chrisisall

KWICKO

Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:05 PM (P)

[Kwicko sets phasers to "Snark"]

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You can’t even bring yourself to give the president the benefit of the doubt when all you have to go on is tv sensationalism...

And yet, in another post, Finn had THIS to say:

Quote:
Rev. Wright is a good example of the extreme racism that exists in the US. A racism that exists predominately among African-Americans, at least some. Unfortunately, there is a double standard when it comes to racism in the US.

And you know all this about Rev. Wright, HOW, exactly? From the twenty seconds of him that you saw on the news, ON TV? Or are you going to tell me that you actually know the man in real life, and he's just as much a racist as you proclaim him to be? Or do you "know" he's a racist because you've read in detail all of his works, and you've found the inherent racism in the 250,000+ minutes of his sermons that AREN'T included in the TV sound bites or posted on YouTube?

Unfortunately, there is a double standard when it comes to what you believe when you see it on TV... You can't even bring yourself to give a PASTOR the benefit of the doubt when all you have to go on is TV sensationalism!

But, hey, I understand how you came to such a low ability to tell truth from fiction; you're clearly a result of the TV generation...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:09 PM (P)

Fuck nice, it's too late for nice.

The open hand has been offered, and spurned for years, it's well past time to ball it into a fist and ram it down the throat of those who's answer to threats against our country is leaving the bad guys nothing left TO threaten.

Folks, it's time for MEAN.

"Now remember, things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is."
-Josey Wales.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:11 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
And...the imbecilic post-of-the-day Award goes to...
BDN!!!!

You sure it's not your own?

ETA
Can you spot the difference Mr. Isall?

Scenario 1

Person 1: I dislike Bush and the policies of his government.

Person 2: Terrorist lover.

Scenario 2

Person 1: I like Bush and the policies of his government

Person 2: Jack-booted Nazi.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:28 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

Can you spot the difference Mr. Isall?

Hey dumass (I mean that in the nicest way

), NO ONE EVER says you Bush-worshipers don't love your country. You merely whine like that to ride my witty coat tails...so get off 'em already, OK?

Now I gotta clean off the dirtisall

CHRISISALL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:30 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

And you know all this about Rev. Wright, HOW, exactly? From the twenty seconds of him that you saw on the news, ON TV?

And the OOOoooo, you-nailed-him-today Award goes to...
KWICKO!!!!!

Chrisisall

CITIZEN

Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:42 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Can you spot the difference Mr. Isall?

I love these games!

Quote:
Scenario 1

Person 1: I dislike Bush and the policies of his government.

Person 2: Terrorist lover.

So what are the differences:

Quote:
Scenario 2

Person 1: I like Bush and the policies of his government

Person 2: Jack-booted Nazi.

The pub I worked at years ago had a machine where you could win £20 for spot the difference, what do I get here?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:47 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Hey dumass (I mean that in the nicest way), NO ONE EVER says you Bush-worshipers don't love your country. You merely whine like that to ride my witty coat tails...so get off 'em already, OK?

Right, because someone saying you do not love your country is ten times worse than being compared to a genocidal Nazi.

Besides, if I were to make the following statement;
"Chrisisall does not love his country"
Does that somehow make it true?

CHRISISALL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:16 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
if I were to make the following statement;
"Chrisisall does not love his country"
Does that somehow make it true?

if I were to make the following statement; "BDN is a genocidal Nazi"
Does that somehow make it true?

It's not that it actually offends me, it's just that it's an easy shot that gets old fast. And it makes me sad that it's what peeps always fall back on instead of a good argument; I want to fight, not slaughter here

.

isall

KIRKULES

Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:29 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
80 percent of Americans now think the country is on the wrong path, and nearly that many think Bush is doing a poor job -

While what you say is true, it is not as clear cut as you would make it. The numbers you site are from two totally different types of polls. The 80% number is from a right track wrong track poll, while the other is an approval rating poll. In the approval poll people simply rate the performance of the individual with nothing for context or comparison. Obviously some will blame whoever is in the Presidency for an economic down turn, and the other 40% are democrats doing what you would expect in an election year. If you look more closely at the poll that the 80% number comes from you will see that only a small percentage of people think the President is responsible for the US being on the wrong track. Most blame government in general, personal behavior and declining moral values. This poll says a lot more about where the country is going as a society and has little to do with the President. I'm as guilty as anyone of misusing poll numbers, but Bush is more of a victim of events than most Presidents have been, and his poll numbers reflect it.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:35 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
"BDN is a genocidal Nazi"
Does that somehow make it true?

Wow, didn't see that coming.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
It's not that it actually offends me, it's just that it's an easy shot that gets old fast. And it makes me sad that it's what peeps always fall back on instead of a good argument; I want to fight, not slaughter here.

Inneedofamorebalancedperspectiveisall.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:40 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
The pub I worked at years ago had a machine where you could win £20 for spot the difference, what do I get here?

Alas, you must sate yourself on that fleeting warm, fuzzy, feeling derived from your perceived cleverness.

CITIZEN

Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:42 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Alas, you must sate yourself on that fleeting warm, fuzzy, feeling derived from your perceived cleverness.

You are such a terrorist.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:46 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Bush is more of a victim of events than most Presidents have been

WHAT????
Shirley, you jest!
He had the chance to unite the world after 911, to get help from friends to go after those responsible- to cement alliances- instead he chose to finish what his daddy started with Saddam & prove himself, driving our economy into the ground, while partially thrashing our Constitution & making his friends richer ...that is being a victim HOW????

Jeezeisall

KIRKULES

Friday, May 16, 2008 1:28 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Bush is more of a victim of events than most Presidents have been

WHAT????
Shirley, you jest!
He had the chance to unite the world after 911, to get help from friends to go after those responsible- to cement alliances- instead he chose to finish what his daddy started with Saddam & prove himself, driving our economy into the ground, while partially thrashing our Constitution & making his friends richer ...that is being a victim HOW????

Jeezeisall

You might remember that even before 911 Bush inherited a recession from the Clinton administration and the aftermath of the .com bubble. Then pile on 911, hurricane Katrina, increasing worldwide oil demand, and the housing bubble. Not a lot of Presidents have had to deal with as much adversity as Bush. You're right that the war in Iraq is all on him, but that is only one of many things adding to his poor poll numbers. The housing bubble is partially due to his good intentioned program to encourage home ownership, but it was the Fed's loose monetary policy that exacerbated the problem. You might also remember Bush's attempt at forming an energy policy for the US that was demonised and shot down but the democrats. You can thank the Dems for the high gas prices that are also contributing to Bush's poll numbers. The argument that the war has hurt our economy doesn't hold water either. The percentage of GDP we currently spend on the military is much less than the average for the last 50 years.

And also, don'tcallmeshirleyisall.

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 16, 2008 2:02 AM (P)

Allright Kirk, there was a lot he inherited for sure. But he could still have come out the hero of sorts if he had just managed this "War on Terror" a little better, and not felt that it was a guilt-edged priority to "clean up the Middle East". He wanted glory, and that is the domain of the Almighty hisself, not a man that endorses we sink to torture as an officially sanctioned method of dealing with specially designated & dehumanized enemy combatants.

He's a tool. And NOT one of God's, if you get my drift.

*cue Heaveanly chorus*Chrisisall

ALLIETHORN7

Friday, May 16, 2008 2:28 AM (P)

Man, these threads never cease to get me to chuckle. Just one thing, though...
Finn (If you still fequent these parts); why all the references to us comparing Bush to a comic book superhero? I've yet to read one. After all- isn't it fair to say that he should have done something other then sit on his ass in Florida?

-Danny

Late night, Brakes lock,
Hear the tires squeal,
Red light, can't stop, so I spin the wheel,
My world goes Black before I
Feel an Angel lift me up,
And I open Bloodshot eyes,
Into fluorescent White,
Flip the Siren, Hit the Lights,
Close the doors and I am Gone
The Band of the week is... Thrice

Gott weiß ich will kein Engel sein.
http://www.myspace.com/otherrandomdude

RUE

Friday, May 16, 2008 2:36 AM (P)

"You might remember that even before 911 Bush inherited a recession from the Clinton administration and the aftermath of the .com bubble." And here we have a classic example of confusing cause with effect. The dot com bubble burst had very little effect on the DOW. Don't believe me ? See the chart: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DJIA_historical_graph.svg You'll notice that 2001 was slightly below 2000, but not by much. And that recession you speak of ? Was that 2001 ? Or 2002 - 2003 ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_2000s_recession

"Then pile on 911 ..." You'll see the Dow had nearly completely recovered from September 11 by the end of the year. That big divot you see - that happened months later. Why is that ?

"... hurricane Katrina ..." And hurricane Katrina - didn't happen till 2005.

"... increasing worldwide oil demand ... You can thank the Dems for the high gas prices that are also contributing to Bush's poll numbers." And the amazing shrinking dollar ! Between 2001 and May 8 2008 sweet light crude rose from 25 USD/bbl to 124 USD/bbl. But it only went from 25 Euros/bbl to 80 Euros/bbl. That fact is due to the pathetic dollar (and Bush).
(On May 8 2008 oil sold for 124 USD/bbl, but only 80 Euro/bbl. And if you look on p1 http://www.peakoil.nl/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/oilwatch_monthly_july
_2007.pdf you'll see oil went from 25 Euros/bbl in 2001 to 50 Euros/bbl in mid 2007, while it went from 25 USD/bbl to 70 USD over the same period.)

" ... and the housing bubble ..."Really. How about this - it was the only thing keeping the economy afloat and Bush had no other plans.

"The argument that the war has hurt our economy doesn't hold water either. The percentage of GDP we currently spend on the military is much less than the average for the last 50 years." But only the part that's actually counted in the budget. The Iraq war doesn't make it there. It gets funded through the emergency spending bill which gets funded through - borrowing ! Total cost so far - over half a trillion dollars. So yeah, that goes on him too.

Yep, Bush sure has had his share of problems - but as you can see, ones that are mostly caused by the fact that he's an evil nincompoop

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

KWICKO

Friday, May 16, 2008 3:04 AM (P)

Quote:
I'm as guilty as anyone of misusing poll numbers, but Bush is more of a victim of events than most Presidents have been, and his poll numbers reflect it.

Sure, we all use the poll numbers to reinforce our positions, and we tend t cherry-pick them to find the numbers best suited for that purpose. And when I say "all", I mean that the Administration does it as well.

As for Bush being a victim of events, I call BS. We're ALL "victims of events" - even the guy on death row for murdering his family. If you skew your vision just right, you can kind of almost make out how he's just a victim of events, even if they were events caused or exacerbated by his own actions.

And being a "victim of events" still hasn't been enough to make the Righties back off their howling about Carter's Presidency, has it? Nope - when his time in office comes up for discussion, all we hear about is double-digit inflation, low national morale, joblessness, recession, terrorism in the Mid-East, and the country just generally being in the shitter... Most if not all of that was stuff that he didn't do (remember, the President doesn't have nearly the impact that we tend to think he does, right? I mean, he's no superhero, right, Finn?), but rather inherited from a corrupted Nixon Administration and an ineffective Ford Administration.

I just find it ironic that we tend to want to give Bush a pass on things, when we still find it impossible not to give Carter the same pass.

One thing I'm willing to bet money on, right here, right now:

Bush ain't going to win any Nobel Peace Prize. Not now. Not ever.

Any takers?

PS: It's been noted that much of the problem Bush "inherited" was from the Clinton Administration. Wouldn't that make Clinton a "victim of events" as well? Or do those rules not apply when bad things happen if a Democrat is in office?

PSS: And I note for the record that when the economy was running hot and things were looking rosy, not one single voice from the right said, "Bush isn't really responsible for any of these good things that are happening right now; he's a victim of events, not a cause of them." And when Reagan gets credited for ending the Cold War and defeating the Russians, no one notes that it was something that was going to happen anyway, and he just happened to be sitting in that chair when the music ended...

I'm just sayin' is all...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

KWICKO

Friday, May 16, 2008 3:11 AM (P)

Quote:
Yep, Bush sure has had his share of problems - but as you can see, ones that are mostly caused by the fact that he's an evil nincompoop.

I'm not sure those two things quite go together - evil and nincompoop.

I'm more of the opinion that the nincompoop part of Bush tends to outweigh any evil part of him, but that he's also easily led and manipulated by others who may indeed have evil plans in mind. Bush's biggest problem, in my view, is that he's never once stopped to analyze issues from a longer view, or with any kind of parallax. In other words, he's never had anyone to act as his Department of "...And Then What?" - people who would take a somewhat skeptical look at issues, and role-play the worst-case scenarios to see what going down that road might lead to. He tends to respond more to cheerleaders within his Inner Circle, and surround himself with them, which is telling, given his history as a male cheerleader and coke-addled drunken frat boy.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

RUE

Friday, May 16, 2008 3:31 AM (P)

If Bush had a shred of humanity he would not go along with the things he's gone along with. And he just keeps on doing more of the same.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, May 16, 2008 1:06 PM (P)

Bush.... beer.......

.......nothin'.....

Oh well....

I was drunk when I wrote it and I'm half drunk now and it's still funny as hell to me.

I am(have) an audience of one.

Be all that you can be! In the Fledgling Comedians Who Hate Their Daytime Jobs.... reserve.

(The Fledgling Comedians Who Hate Their Daytime Jobs, also known as FCWHTDJ, pronounced Fuu Kwwwhhhhit Deeeja, can be found at mymomthinksimfunny.com)
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

KWICKO

Friday, May 16, 2008 2:09 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Bush.... beer.......

.......nothin'.....

Oh well....

I was drunk when I wrote it and I'm half drunk now and it's still funny as hell to me.

I am(have) an audience of one.

Be all that you can be! In the Fledgling Comedians Who Hate Their Daytime Jobs.... reserve.

(The Fledgling Comedians Who Hate Their Daytime Jobs, also known as FCWHTDJ, pronounced Fuu Kwwwhhhhit Deeeja, can be found at mymomthinksimfunny.com)
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

Count me in. :)

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, May 16, 2008 2:26 PM (P)

That's two.....

Three's Company...

and Four is a crappy spin off

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

ALLIETHORN7

Friday, May 16, 2008 3:18 PM (P)

Quote:
If Bush had a shred of humanity he would not go along with the things he's gone along with. And he just keeps on doing more of the same.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

It's not that Bush doesn't have humanity- he does- it's just that he's not suited to be a president of anything. Let alone our country.

-Danny

Late night, Brakes lock,
Hear the tires squeal,
Red light, can't stop, so I spin the wheel,
My world goes Black before I
Feel an Angel lift me up,
And I open Bloodshot eyes,
Into fluorescent White,
Flip the Siren, Hit the Lights,
Close the doors and I am Gone
The Band of the week is... Thrice

Gott weiß ich will kein Engel sein.
http://www.myspace.com/otherrandomdude

ELVISCHRIST

Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:06 PM (P)

Quote:

Please don't say that the attacks would have never happened in the first place if Bush was doing his job. That is not the point. You dislike Bush because of his actions on 9/11 and that is what is presently being discussed.

Well that's just plain wrong. I disliked Bush long before 9/11.

EC

"I repeat myself when under stress. I repeat myself when under stress. I repeat myself when under stress. I repeat-" - King Crimson, Indiscipline

CHRISISALL

Friday, June 13, 2008 12:20 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Well that's just plain wrong. I disliked Bush long before 9/11.

Me too, and then I actually LIKED him briefly when he got us kickin' Taliban ass in Afghanistan...but then came the Iraq do-over with the lies about WMD and the non-connection to 911....

Brief Shrub fanisall

PIRATENEWS

Friday, June 13, 2008 1:31 AM (P)

Bush's nickname for Dick Cheney is "Tater"

35 Articles of Impeachment filed in Congress against George W Bush this week. It took Rep Dennis Kucinich 5 hours to read the entire indictment:

http://cspanjunkie.org/?p=158
http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=93581
http://www.infowars.com/?p=2654

Bush ancestor Thomas Percy's head is still on a stick in British Parliament in 2006

V FOR VENDETTA FOR REAL: Bush family's terrorism in Gunpowder Plot to bomb British Parliament

www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_publications_and_archives/parliamentar
y_archives/gunpowder_plot_400_pow.cfm

KWICKO

Friday, June 13, 2008 2:56 AM (P)

Quote:
It took Rep Dennis Kucinich 5 hours to read the entire indictment.

Can you imagine how long it would have taken if Bush were reading it? Say... that's not a bad idea... he'll be long out of office before he can ever finish reading the charges!

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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